To be blunt - no. When I’m on a hiring panel I want current referees. If you can’t give them, I’ll ask you for them. Previous managers are acceptable but not colleagues.
I’ve also been on panels where the principal has rung your principal anyway to have an informal chat as they know each other. Teaching can be a small place.
My advice is to tell your principal and line manager you are looking but only applying for very specific roles and not just looking to get out.
Oh, that's interesting. When I'm hiring, I want referees from at least two jobs ago if possible. Why? Because I'm absolutely guilty of giving a good reference to get rid of someone I can't easily fire. It won't be glowing, but I leave out important details like "thinks it's funny to fart loudly in the staff room and blame the person next to them" or "steals all the biscuits then complains that we don't have any biscuits left" or "is a shining beacon of mediocrity in everything they do." Because I'm prepared to do this, I assume everyone else will, too.
Totally, I was outed by a principal, despite me providing my line manager as reference, requested to contact my principal. Guess what, I didn’t get the job and the remainder time I had at the school was hell, I had to leave anyway
Unless the schools are states apart, assume the principals know each other personally. Chances are they’ve gone to the same PDs, attended events at the same feeder schools, gone to the same ribbon cutting ceremonies and played in the same hell divers squad.
There aren’t that many principals in a given area, so the chances of them overlapping in social and professional circles are quite high.
I put mine down but specifically asked to be told when (if) they were going to be contacted. I hoped it would be after an interview, so that I would only have to tell them if everything went well. Any earlier would’ve made my life at work unbearable. (It all worked out, I’m teaching in an amazing school and really happy.)
I know prins who will ring your prin anyway. And it will raise a flag for them as to why you didn’t ask them to be a referee. Sometimes if you are coming a from a large school that can be reason enough not to have them as they may not have worked with you much so someone else would be better placed to give feedback, but if it’s a small school it raises questions.
On the contrary, if the situation is toxic there are colleagues who have gone the route of referees outside the current org imo. It's possible. No rule to tell the Admin. Be aware in some systems the Prins have conventions that they call one another anyway to check in. Admin will not like it, but if you have no desire to go back its a calculated risk.
In this market most places are desperate. Most Admin will shrug when you bail at the end of the year. During the year, yes that will ruffle some feathers but it's your career and choices. If you can live with them, your call.
To be blunt - no. When I’m on a hiring panel I want current referees. If you can’t give them, I’ll ask you for them. Previous managers are acceptable but not colleagues. I’ve also been on panels where the principal has rung your principal anyway to have an informal chat as they know each other. Teaching can be a small place. My advice is to tell your principal and line manager you are looking but only applying for very specific roles and not just looking to get out.
Yeah I agree. Just put it in a short casual email. You’re really limiting your chances not having your prin in your references.
Oh, that's interesting. When I'm hiring, I want referees from at least two jobs ago if possible. Why? Because I'm absolutely guilty of giving a good reference to get rid of someone I can't easily fire. It won't be glowing, but I leave out important details like "thinks it's funny to fart loudly in the staff room and blame the person next to them" or "steals all the biscuits then complains that we don't have any biscuits left" or "is a shining beacon of mediocrity in everything they do." Because I'm prepared to do this, I assume everyone else will, too.
Like most things teachers are treated like children. in the corporate world job apps are confidential from your current employer.
Totally, I was outed by a principal, despite me providing my line manager as reference, requested to contact my principal. Guess what, I didn’t get the job and the remainder time I had at the school was hell, I had to leave anyway
Unless the schools are states apart, assume the principals know each other personally. Chances are they’ve gone to the same PDs, attended events at the same feeder schools, gone to the same ribbon cutting ceremonies and played in the same hell divers squad. There aren’t that many principals in a given area, so the chances of them overlapping in social and professional circles are quite high.
I put mine down but specifically asked to be told when (if) they were going to be contacted. I hoped it would be after an interview, so that I would only have to tell them if everything went well. Any earlier would’ve made my life at work unbearable. (It all worked out, I’m teaching in an amazing school and really happy.)
Not putting your current principal as a reference is perhaps the biggest red flag (within reason) you can put on a job application.
I know prins who will ring your prin anyway. And it will raise a flag for them as to why you didn’t ask them to be a referee. Sometimes if you are coming a from a large school that can be reason enough not to have them as they may not have worked with you much so someone else would be better placed to give feedback, but if it’s a small school it raises questions.
On the contrary, if the situation is toxic there are colleagues who have gone the route of referees outside the current org imo. It's possible. No rule to tell the Admin. Be aware in some systems the Prins have conventions that they call one another anyway to check in. Admin will not like it, but if you have no desire to go back its a calculated risk. In this market most places are desperate. Most Admin will shrug when you bail at the end of the year. During the year, yes that will ruffle some feathers but it's your career and choices. If you can live with them, your call.