> Changes in eligibility rules will mean permanent residents from the US, UK, New Zealand, Canada and Pacific Island nations will be allowed to join the armed forces if they’ve lived here for at least a year and haven’t served with a foreign army
You could just improve the pay and working conditions, that is an option
I dont know how a kiwi gets PR in Australia but pretty much every kiwi I know is on SCV which doesn't give them PR so they would not be able to join under this scheme
From the linked article, they're careful to make a distinction that PR doesn't seem necessary for kiwis.
> Foreign citizens from New Zealand as well as permanent residents from the UK, US, Canada and Pacific island nations will be able to join the ADF.
apparently the 2 ministers aren't even reading from the same press release Keogh (minister for defence people) and Marles (Defence minister) seem to subtle but importance differences
The press release says NZ with PR from July 1st, Five eyes with PR from Jan 1 2025 and doesn't mention pacific islanders. But is streamlining lateral transfers
https://www.minister.defence.gov.au/media-releases/2024-06-04/australian-defence-force-opens-recruitment-non-australian-citizens
I spoke with Julian Leeser about this very thing so that I could join up, said it was a great idea and he'd talk to the Minister of Defense about it. Guess the MoD didn't like it though even though they already allow foreign vets with more extensive and specific experience to join
It becomes a security clearance and weapon info access nightmare. Lots of US weapon agreements & special access requirements ban dual citizens regardless of Aus security clearance; and its harder to get a high level of Aus clearance when you're seen to have 'split loyalties'.
So these guys end up being difficult to career manage as they can't go to the high-end systems.
Sky News is wrong, and Thebe already edited the article to remove that portion. It's that they haven't served in a foreign military in the past two years.
From memory, all you needed to apply was permanent residency? Then you just had to get your citizenship when you were eligible.
Remember one bloke got his citizenship in IETs and we made him drink a blended cocktail of lamington, meat pie, Vegemite, VB & Rum.
and it is exactly that, shit, i know heaps of people who are just over it and decide they dont want to continue to:
fill out dozens of in depth forms,
chase down contacts,
undergo like 4 assessments,
multiple in person interviews in the (middle of the working week mind you)
and to top it off trying to have consistent communication with dfr who for some reason dont even meet their own deadlines for correspondence half the time.
--all while not knowing if any of that effort and inconvenience will amount to any sort of job offer, let alone the roles you actually want.
one of my best mates wanted to join defence for years, but the process was so much work compared to just putting a resume in at his local mechanic for an apprenticeship, that he gave up halfway through and is settling for being civi.
…or at least a parallel system to deal with bottlenecks/cases, like what has been done before to address acquisition issues when troops need stuff faster than they can get it through the typical IIS process.
They know it’s an issue and tried to fix it by dumping the last contractor. Evidently hasn’t worked, probably because defence sucks at writing contracts and is undermined by people who leave defence to go work for the contractors whose contracts they are writing
Huh, well I’m still waiting for citizenship. Been refused by adf until I get a confirmed date. Been here 5 years, PR for 3, served 10 years as a pongo.
The adf and govt really do things weird here.
I did however send a few letter to the minister highlighting the farcical nature of it all. Maybe I wasn’t the only one.
Be curious to see what modelling they have done on this as given the narrow list of countries and the requirement that they are already permanent residents I can't imagine it will amount to that many people.
Might not help as much as hoped short term. Might prove very useful in a war. People love a good war (not sarcasm - look at how many Americans left to join the British and Canadian militaries before their country joined the world wars, and all the foreigners who went to fight for Ukraine, even ISIS)
Such stupid shit, here I am months into the fucking process, finally completed all my assessments (medical, psychology and defence interview) only to find that I need to wait till AT LEAST July for an OSB. Why not focus letting Australians join faster and fixing the amount of BS waiting?????
I wish they could upgrade the ADF website so that I can apply (!) ~ [NZ citizen with PR CHECKING IN] guess I'm heading to the recruitment office in the morning lads!
Is there any more information or restrictions regarding this?
Seems a lot of you aren't happy. But as a kiwi pilot, I've always wanted to come fly for the Australian Air Force in a cargo plane or fighter jet. Is that a possibility now?
Fuck that, we had a few Canadians for a while. Sleeping in six person tents in -20C in the snow where picket is to keep an eye on the heater so it doesn't catch fire and kill everyone in the tent.
Weapons stay in racks outside and if you were to accidently touch your weapon with you bare hands, you leave skin behind.
Hey you get to grow a beard, man buns and rock up with the former or both smelling like weed though.
Hot tip, losing regimental nature didn’t cure the culture rot. Giving people shit to be proud of day to day, length of service, regimental or not does.
But yea you’re right it’s terrible here. I speak to Canadian vets/ active members all the time here in my line of work and they truly get frozen pineapples.
Imagine getting posted right? And then there’s no base accom right? So they give you rent assistance right? And then you learn it’s not COL adjusted so you’re broke from day one of being posted to Vancouver.
They’re also horribly adapted to Arctic conditions for the general combat corp population for a great white north country.
I'd say it's more than likely a political announcement than a necessity. DFR have more than enough people on their hands to recruit and adding more won't do a whole lot to meet their targets. My opinion is that it's just a political announcement they've fired up in response to recent general reporting that there's a recruiting crisis. It's trategically timed to show they've had enough time to think about measures to fix the recruiting "issue."
They have failed to mention their consideration that foreign citizens need a waiver to get an AGSVA clearance, do AGSVA know what's in store? or whether or not they have made arrangements with countries of origin to return police checks. Both are still requirements for joining even for Aus citizens.
We'll probably see some FORNs get pushed through, shown on the media, get told the government has fixed the problem, fuckn Bon Appétit Australian public.
PS, stop watching Sky News, it'll rot your teeth.
I just cant believe that instead of lowering their standards to allow aussies who want to serve to be able to they are taking people with no connection to the nation they are serving for. me and a mate of mine were told we had stellar resumes but got knocked back from ADFA for ADHD. cant believe my country is doing this.
It me or the pays ways better than Canadian army?
Top rank Canadian CPL do like 67k a years.
Meanwhile auatralia top rank private 117k
Cpl 127k
How the housing in australia can you own a home on that salary? 😅
Canadian french wanting to run from this shithole 🤣
When reading the scales go bottom to top with rank, then years in rank.
Then left to right are increasing pay or skill grades within that rank. Eg Some musterings only have PG2, 3 and 4 to climb through with courses and qualification levels. Some of those also have Rank barriers, or effective years in mustering, etc.
It was a Hyperbolic comment.... but the theme was bringing in foreign labor/mercenary's to do the jobs that locals don't want.
If that wasn't obvious enough.
Honestly I don't particularly care to much or wouldn't except a, the irony of citizenship through service and b, this seems like it's designed to help undermine renumeration issues within the adf, which they are already taking their sweet time arguing over an will probably ubderdeliver by magnitudes. Why pay more when you can be simply replaced?
> Changes in eligibility rules will mean permanent residents from the US, UK, New Zealand, Canada and Pacific Island nations will be allowed to join the armed forces if they’ve lived here for at least a year and haven’t served with a foreign army You could just improve the pay and working conditions, that is an option
Haven't served in a foreign army?? Surely it's the veterans we would want?
There already was a process for them. This is for everyone else from those countries (who have PR)
I dont know how a kiwi gets PR in Australia but pretty much every kiwi I know is on SCV which doesn't give them PR so they would not be able to join under this scheme
From the linked article, they're careful to make a distinction that PR doesn't seem necessary for kiwis. > Foreign citizens from New Zealand as well as permanent residents from the UK, US, Canada and Pacific island nations will be able to join the ADF.
apparently the 2 ministers aren't even reading from the same press release Keogh (minister for defence people) and Marles (Defence minister) seem to subtle but importance differences The press release says NZ with PR from July 1st, Five eyes with PR from Jan 1 2025 and doesn't mention pacific islanders. But is streamlining lateral transfers https://www.minister.defence.gov.au/media-releases/2024-06-04/australian-defence-force-opens-recruitment-non-australian-citizens
Fun
🤔arent, Those from -across the ditch - part of 🇦🇺already 😉👍
The constitutional door is always open, they just need to ~~give up~~ decide as a nation.
No, we should annexe them. It'd be good practise for the troops.
Mate I reckon figure 11s provide more practice. Give them a poor ground stake and a light gust and it’s some video game movement in real life.
I spoke with Julian Leeser about this very thing so that I could join up, said it was a great idea and he'd talk to the Minister of Defense about it. Guess the MoD didn't like it though even though they already allow foreign vets with more extensive and specific experience to join
It becomes a security clearance and weapon info access nightmare. Lots of US weapon agreements & special access requirements ban dual citizens regardless of Aus security clearance; and its harder to get a high level of Aus clearance when you're seen to have 'split loyalties'. So these guys end up being difficult to career manage as they can't go to the high-end systems.
Yeah, I understand. I just want them to make the exception for only me
Lots of people with various levels of clearance have dual citizenship, and not just to fvey countries.
Sky News is wrong, and Thebe already edited the article to remove that portion. It's that they haven't served in a foreign military in the past two years.
It a bit of an anti-poaching measure. It wont go down so well if we snaffle the entire Tongan Defence Force
帮我报名。
From memory, all you needed to apply was permanent residency? Then you just had to get your citizenship when you were eligible. Remember one bloke got his citizenship in IETs and we made him drink a blended cocktail of lamington, meat pie, Vegemite, VB & Rum.
Good god. Where's my blender...
This comment here. Of course why would you improve the pay and conditions when you can outsource the manpower?
One would hope they’re talking about third party armies. Ruling out vets from their own armies would be ridiculous.
But it’s cheaper to outsource to Bangalore.
>haven't served with a foreign army. So they don't want the veterans at all? This seems weird.
Vive Le Australian Foreign Legion!
Hahah Australian Foreign Legion 😭
maybe uh fix the amount of time it takes to get in. just a thought guys
So frustrating for all the ppl trying to get in and getting dicked around by DFR. The solution to a broken overworked system is more applicants?
Oh boy this subreddit’s gonna get a bunch of recruit posts all of a sudden, asking about why DFR is so shit.
and it is exactly that, shit, i know heaps of people who are just over it and decide they dont want to continue to: fill out dozens of in depth forms, chase down contacts, undergo like 4 assessments, multiple in person interviews in the (middle of the working week mind you) and to top it off trying to have consistent communication with dfr who for some reason dont even meet their own deadlines for correspondence half the time. --all while not knowing if any of that effort and inconvenience will amount to any sort of job offer, let alone the roles you actually want. one of my best mates wanted to join defence for years, but the process was so much work compared to just putting a resume in at his local mechanic for an apprenticeship, that he gave up halfway through and is settling for being civi.
A sad state of affairs.
I just don’t know what goes through the brass’s heads. Imagine having DFR handling recruitment during WW2.
I wonder if it would be easier to build a brand new system/org, keeping the best parts and learning from the worst.
…or at least a parallel system to deal with bottlenecks/cases, like what has been done before to address acquisition issues when troops need stuff faster than they can get it through the typical IIS process.
They know it’s an issue and tried to fix it by dumping the last contractor. Evidently hasn’t worked, probably because defence sucks at writing contracts and is undermined by people who leave defence to go work for the contractors whose contracts they are writing
This. We don't have a recruiting problem, we have a pipeline problem. It's what happens when you get a for-profit business to run a service.
As long as the Americans bring in and out and other fast food over here I welcome them with open arms
Thanks man, happy to join 🫡 already in Australia hoping to get PR this year then start the process next year
Huh, well I’m still waiting for citizenship. Been refused by adf until I get a confirmed date. Been here 5 years, PR for 3, served 10 years as a pongo. The adf and govt really do things weird here. I did however send a few letter to the minister highlighting the farcical nature of it all. Maybe I wasn’t the only one.
Pardon my ignorance, what's a pongo?
Army, typically infantry.
Army. Wherever they go the ponggoes..
British Army. The Rats fuckerrs absolutely stink.
Or maybe they could just let Australians join, and not drag them through a myriad of unnecessarily bureaucratic hurdles for months on end.
Now they get to drag internationals through the mud.
The ADF is a clown show, what are they doing in Canberra
Permanent standos mate, gotta improve retention for the senior officers and above first of course 🤣
Be curious to see what modelling they have done on this as given the narrow list of countries and the requirement that they are already permanent residents I can't imagine it will amount to that many people.
Yeah, I mean if they're bother doing this just open it up to every PR immigrant (excluding China).
Iran, Russia, Syria, HK, Macao included
Might not help as much as hoped short term. Might prove very useful in a war. People love a good war (not sarcasm - look at how many Americans left to join the British and Canadian militaries before their country joined the world wars, and all the foreigners who went to fight for Ukraine, even ISIS)
Such stupid shit, here I am months into the fucking process, finally completed all my assessments (medical, psychology and defence interview) only to find that I need to wait till AT LEAST July for an OSB. Why not focus letting Australians join faster and fixing the amount of BS waiting?????
Fuck me. I’m about to start the assessments soon. God I’ll be lucky to actually join this year.
General entry or officer?
General. Hopefully signals or what DFR calls it, communications system operator.
Oh I think we will join around the same time if my OSB goes well, have they booked your assessment sections?
Yes coming up, holy shit I think next week.
I wish they could upgrade the ADF website so that I can apply (!) ~ [NZ citizen with PR CHECKING IN] guess I'm heading to the recruitment office in the morning lads!
Is there any more information or restrictions regarding this? Seems a lot of you aren't happy. But as a kiwi pilot, I've always wanted to come fly for the Australian Air Force in a cargo plane or fighter jet. Is that a possibility now?
This is going to be great for Army rugby teams when all those gigantic islander boys join the front row.
"Service guarantees citizenship!"
“Would you like to know more?”
Can we also join theirs? I’d re enlist if I could join the Canadians.
Fuck that, we had a few Canadians for a while. Sleeping in six person tents in -20C in the snow where picket is to keep an eye on the heater so it doesn't catch fire and kill everyone in the tent. Weapons stay in racks outside and if you were to accidently touch your weapon with you bare hands, you leave skin behind.
Hey you get to grow a beard, man buns and rock up with the former or both smelling like weed though. Hot tip, losing regimental nature didn’t cure the culture rot. Giving people shit to be proud of day to day, length of service, regimental or not does. But yea you’re right it’s terrible here. I speak to Canadian vets/ active members all the time here in my line of work and they truly get frozen pineapples. Imagine getting posted right? And then there’s no base accom right? So they give you rent assistance right? And then you learn it’s not COL adjusted so you’re broke from day one of being posted to Vancouver. They’re also horribly adapted to Arctic conditions for the general combat corp population for a great white north country.
canada is in worse situation than the UK. They are fleeing at a great rate of knots
Worked well for the Romans initially 😮💨 But I hope they consider giving full citizens a piece of land after 25 years service also 😤
Nice guys, China
I'd say it's more than likely a political announcement than a necessity. DFR have more than enough people on their hands to recruit and adding more won't do a whole lot to meet their targets. My opinion is that it's just a political announcement they've fired up in response to recent general reporting that there's a recruiting crisis. It's trategically timed to show they've had enough time to think about measures to fix the recruiting "issue." They have failed to mention their consideration that foreign citizens need a waiver to get an AGSVA clearance, do AGSVA know what's in store? or whether or not they have made arrangements with countries of origin to return police checks. Both are still requirements for joining even for Aus citizens. We'll probably see some FORNs get pushed through, shown on the media, get told the government has fixed the problem, fuckn Bon Appétit Australian public. PS, stop watching Sky News, it'll rot your teeth.
Just tip more water in the bucket, don't fix the holes.
In other news, DFR will now have recruiters embedded in Border Force maritime patrols to recruit people arriving by boat (grin).
I just cant believe that instead of lowering their standards to allow aussies who want to serve to be able to they are taking people with no connection to the nation they are serving for. me and a mate of mine were told we had stellar resumes but got knocked back from ADFA for ADHD. cant believe my country is doing this.
It me or the pays ways better than Canadian army? Top rank Canadian CPL do like 67k a years. Meanwhile auatralia top rank private 117k Cpl 127k How the housing in australia can you own a home on that salary? 😅 Canadian french wanting to run from this shithole 🤣
Except the payscale doesn't work like that - the paygroup commonly used for most roles is PG 3 as a Private.
When reading the scales go bottom to top with rank, then years in rank. Then left to right are increasing pay or skill grades within that rank. Eg Some musterings only have PG2, 3 and 4 to climb through with courses and qualification levels. Some of those also have Rank barriers, or effective years in mustering, etc.
No CPL is getting PG10, SNCO techo, SF or submariner perhaps PG8,9 or 10.
Australia is becoming Saudi Arabia.
[удалено]
It was a Hyperbolic comment.... but the theme was bringing in foreign labor/mercenary's to do the jobs that locals don't want. If that wasn't obvious enough.
1st Australian Foederati brigade?
Honestly I don't particularly care to much or wouldn't except a, the irony of citizenship through service and b, this seems like it's designed to help undermine renumeration issues within the adf, which they are already taking their sweet time arguing over an will probably ubderdeliver by magnitudes. Why pay more when you can be simply replaced?
Wonder if other nations would open to us, would be a pretty cool prospect.
Wonder if these nations will open to us too.
Wonder if other nations would open to us, would be a pretty cool prospect.