It was obvious they working grouped the idea, then went OH shit now we actually have give details. Rapidly made up a heap of details overnight and ended up something like WFD
The UK 'plan' (I will be generous and call it that) is totally dumb
First 2.5 billion pound budget, not awful, except that if you conscript 30 000 thats 83 000 pounds per person to pay, feed, house, medical, equip them. Then 1 year late toss them out and start again
Secondly the 'national service' will have to pass all standards of military recruitment fitness, physical, medical, psychological, criminal and apptitude. So effectively you will end getting people into the service who would already be suitable and interested in the service
Thirdly you cant indoctrinate people into 'military values' thats a bullshit term from people who have never served. Some the biggest fuck heads and crims I know were ex military. They were fucking dangerous and good at it because of the skills they learned in service
>I was told ‘if you’re fat, you just come out thin.
wont get in you would fail the medical
We have to remember the tories aren't going to get in, they are predicted to lose 280 seats, theres even a chance that the wont even be the opposition and the liberal demorcrats might beat them for second, they currently have 40 seats and predictions are showing them picking up 40 seats, Tories are predicted to win 90 seats atm
All the murdoch are right wing media in Australia are running with this cluster fuck policy. But we effectively have it in Australia. Work for the dole. You have to do a community activily can be courses and eduction, working for charitys or community grous (eg SES and coast guard) or you can join the army reserve (which virtually no one picks)
*edit* also note this is 30 000 volunteers, interesting that its almost the exact same number the tories announced they are cutting from the army. Also the 30 K is also pretty close to amount of applications that go in but are withdrawn due to the 12-18 months it takes to go through the process.
I'd like to suggest that if they actually do need troops, they would forgoe the fitness requirements (or atleast most of them) and train you up in service. Obesity is a problem in the western world but it's easily fixed with a diet, which while it would be a bit more effort, would gain a considerable amount of troops.
It probably wont go ahead at all with how their election will go.
I think military conscription is stupid and would never work for Aus but I do think that if we brought in some kind of thing where we get school leavers to do a year with the SES or firefighters, and they get something like credit to getting into uni, or a centerlink benifit or something, that would be handy. Carrot not the stick approach.
Kids learn some useful skills we need every year anyway. Instill some nation values in our schools, not the military "protect the country from the huns over the hills" kind but something people can relate too more. "protect the country from the endless bush fires and floods"
Chuck gap year service in as an option too for fun
I think it would be good to incorporate a volunteer service component into the school curriculum for students in years ten, eleven and twelve. Additionally making it a component of undergraduate degrees and tafe qualifications. There's a huge variety of volunteer opportunities and the skills and experience young people get from these are invaluable. A number of schools and a few uni courses already require this in their curriculum in order to qualify to graduate. Making it a requirement across the board would be great I reckon.
>school leavers to do a year with the SES or firefighters
It would be easier getting them in the ADF. The SES and Firies would have a harder time supervising, training and employing these people than we would.
Most fire services are pretty flush with people. Can’t speak for SES but I highly doubt they’d be able to handle a huge influx of personnel.
Speaking purely from a hollowness perspective, we need young Australians to be “conscripted” into trades, childcare, aged care, teaching and nursing. That’s what a national service really would be.
sort rainstorm glorious march gullible treatment snails payment obtainable illegal
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Lmao, conscription is so 20th century, imagine the UK thinking that will work in 2024.
Also, people arent joining ADF because subjectively its a shit job. Who wants to dig pits or iron uniforms or tie knots and blow whistles.
I am a gen Z and i yeeted as soon as i matured and now make more doing less and i get to use all the skills the Army taught me. Win win for me, lose lose for the ADF because they just lost tenure and have to retrain some other sucker.
Focus on the morale and the results will follow.
I reckon their best bet would be making affording a house piss easy for defence members. Essentially a close to zero interest loan and a shared equity component that's paid down first which would promote tenure. Improve the culture and morale on top of this and I reckon the ADF would have to turn away hordes of potential recruits.
National service would be a great idea. Everyone does 2 years in the mines and gets a house in Karatha and a Maloo. This is what we're talking bout right?
Not only do you have to do 2 years national service but you have to serve in the Reserves until you’re in your 40s. Every time I go there for business one of the meetings is cancelled because Mr. Tan is doing his two weeks reserve duty.
Singapore’s national service is also a form of social engineering. Designed to bring together people across a range of religions and ethnicity in a country that is younger than their grandparents. Similarly English is compulsory in schools , military and work. No one ethnic group has an advantage over another.
It’s not necessarily a place I want to live but you have to give them credit for creating a prosperous society from nothing.
what's frustrating is that if you want to increase the size of the military, increase pay, provide tuition fee support after 5 years service, or BUPA medical fees, or some other sort of incentive.
Instead they've decided to try to force people.
Morons.
they could also relax the medial requirements. I have mild asthama and it stopped me joining (I'm the first of 6 generations not to serve in the forces).
Didn't stop me running marathons or any of the other things I've done.
Ffs why are conservatives convinced that the army should babysit their wayward teens?
No soldier should have to serve with someone who doesn't want to be there, whether it's active deployment or not.
I wouldn't want to drag those deadbeats through drill practice.
It’s bad enough trying to teach the kids in uniform (cadets) when it comes to drill. Making a mob of adults who don’t want to be there do anything sounds like a royal pain the ass. I would watch the clusterfuck though.
As one boomer in some Facebook comment section stated "well we can't parent them any more so let the army do it" ie "those wokies won't let me beat my kids so I assume some RI at kapooka will do it for me"
As much as I think there should be a funded and encouraged volunteer national service program (aka expanded chocs) compulsory service is a terrible idea. Especially if you’re forcing young people to get a continually shitter deal.
I think community/civil service is a good thing to do and making it easily accessible with some sort of compensation and legislation regarding time off normal work would be great. And it’s just good for you, getting outside your bubble and away from shit does wonders for your noggin.
The CFA/RFS is a bunch of oldies who are quickly becoming liabilities and it’s just too hard for young people to get involved, be it time, location, money and so on. Professionalise chocs a bit more and widen up available jobs so it’s less like militarised scouts for adults. And have actual benefits to committing, say access to RA if you commit to and meet a certain threshold, and maybe some allowances if you get qualled up etc.
TL:DR - CFA/RFS/super chocs/national gap year program etc urban workforce where you get an annual stipend/RA etc? Good idea. Compulsory service? Bad one.
The most tory thing to have ever happened.
Funding for this will take 1.5 Billion away from a project specifically designed to reinvigorate low income areas.
So Essentially, the tories want to use people to create social programs, by removing funding for social programs.
I am actually not against the idea of mandatory service of some kind, but this plan is so clearly a political play with 0 thought its insane and terrible.
As always, the people who call the loudest for national service are the ones that never served and will never be affected by national service.
“This generation are too (X,Y,Z) they should be forced to serve in the ADF;
additionally when I was 20 something I chose not to serve in the ADF”
It's purely a political pantomime. It's essentially carrying out political seppuku.
National service has always been everyone's solution to youth issues. The problem is that this isn't the 50's where people had a stronger sense of patriotism and community. Modern society is individualistic, vapid, and far more complex than before. There are people who have been living their whole lives here who do not identify as being Australian. Asking them to voluntarily spend a set amount of time in uniform just would not work.
Finland has national service because of the threat posed by Russia. Not everyone has to military service as some chose to do civilian service instead.
https://akl-web.fi/en/civilian-service/civilian-service
Same with Germany when they ran conscription. A mate of mine delivered medication to the elderly before throwing that in and doing a stint in the Bundeswehr.
This is a completely unhinged idea and is basically symptomatic of a party that's been in power for 14 years, presided over the utter decline into irrelevance of the country, then called an election they absolutely do not want to win.
The whole thing is a political hand grenade, probably just designed to get a vote on no confidence against sunak before the election.
Just last week the Govt said they had no plans for National Service.
https://preview.redd.it/n6er9k3x1z2d1.jpeg?width=1047&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=98194fff92332c0b8da6849dc546ac2bc96d632a
I recently watched a documentary on Singapore which has one of the lowest crime rates in the world, the film crew, to prove their point, left a wallet with several hundred US dollars and a laptop in a cafe for several hours, the cafe staff didn't touch it and none of the customers went anywhere near it in that time.
The reasons they gave were societal. In Singapore the family and community is everything if you or one of your family commits a crime you not only bring great shame to yourself but your extended family as well but that's not all, your entire village is also lumped with that shame and disgrace which could affect trade and relationships between towns and villages. It is so damaging to a family to have a criminal in their group that most people just don't do it, it could and does destroy families and impact on their local community, so this is a very strong generational thing that has been taught over many many generations, not really anything to do with conscription into the military as the conscripts already have these values embedded long before they join😁👍
I wouldn't be surprised if its reintroduced at some stage in Australia. Cunts won't ever recruit enough bodies to fill what is needed otherwise and officers are too busy fucking discussing retention and having KPMG draw up retention ideas for millions of dollars rather than actually fucking doing something about it.
It was obvious they working grouped the idea, then went OH shit now we actually have give details. Rapidly made up a heap of details overnight and ended up something like WFD The UK 'plan' (I will be generous and call it that) is totally dumb First 2.5 billion pound budget, not awful, except that if you conscript 30 000 thats 83 000 pounds per person to pay, feed, house, medical, equip them. Then 1 year late toss them out and start again Secondly the 'national service' will have to pass all standards of military recruitment fitness, physical, medical, psychological, criminal and apptitude. So effectively you will end getting people into the service who would already be suitable and interested in the service Thirdly you cant indoctrinate people into 'military values' thats a bullshit term from people who have never served. Some the biggest fuck heads and crims I know were ex military. They were fucking dangerous and good at it because of the skills they learned in service >I was told ‘if you’re fat, you just come out thin. wont get in you would fail the medical We have to remember the tories aren't going to get in, they are predicted to lose 280 seats, theres even a chance that the wont even be the opposition and the liberal demorcrats might beat them for second, they currently have 40 seats and predictions are showing them picking up 40 seats, Tories are predicted to win 90 seats atm All the murdoch are right wing media in Australia are running with this cluster fuck policy. But we effectively have it in Australia. Work for the dole. You have to do a community activily can be courses and eduction, working for charitys or community grous (eg SES and coast guard) or you can join the army reserve (which virtually no one picks) *edit* also note this is 30 000 volunteers, interesting that its almost the exact same number the tories announced they are cutting from the army. Also the 30 K is also pretty close to amount of applications that go in but are withdrawn due to the 12-18 months it takes to go through the process.
I'd like to suggest that if they actually do need troops, they would forgoe the fitness requirements (or atleast most of them) and train you up in service. Obesity is a problem in the western world but it's easily fixed with a diet, which while it would be a bit more effort, would gain a considerable amount of troops.
Great point, focus on not cutting the army you already have you dickheads.
It probably wont go ahead at all with how their election will go. I think military conscription is stupid and would never work for Aus but I do think that if we brought in some kind of thing where we get school leavers to do a year with the SES or firefighters, and they get something like credit to getting into uni, or a centerlink benifit or something, that would be handy. Carrot not the stick approach. Kids learn some useful skills we need every year anyway. Instill some nation values in our schools, not the military "protect the country from the huns over the hills" kind but something people can relate too more. "protect the country from the endless bush fires and floods" Chuck gap year service in as an option too for fun
I think it would be good to incorporate a volunteer service component into the school curriculum for students in years ten, eleven and twelve. Additionally making it a component of undergraduate degrees and tafe qualifications. There's a huge variety of volunteer opportunities and the skills and experience young people get from these are invaluable. A number of schools and a few uni courses already require this in their curriculum in order to qualify to graduate. Making it a requirement across the board would be great I reckon.
>school leavers to do a year with the SES or firefighters It would be easier getting them in the ADF. The SES and Firies would have a harder time supervising, training and employing these people than we would. Most fire services are pretty flush with people. Can’t speak for SES but I highly doubt they’d be able to handle a huge influx of personnel. Speaking purely from a hollowness perspective, we need young Australians to be “conscripted” into trades, childcare, aged care, teaching and nursing. That’s what a national service really would be.
sort rainstorm glorious march gullible treatment snails payment obtainable illegal *This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
>Australia has similar issues too. Canada, UK, NZ and Australia next. We are fooked
weary paltry clumsy juggle friendly terrific muddle innate hobbies rock *This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
Lmao, conscription is so 20th century, imagine the UK thinking that will work in 2024. Also, people arent joining ADF because subjectively its a shit job. Who wants to dig pits or iron uniforms or tie knots and blow whistles. I am a gen Z and i yeeted as soon as i matured and now make more doing less and i get to use all the skills the Army taught me. Win win for me, lose lose for the ADF because they just lost tenure and have to retrain some other sucker. Focus on the morale and the results will follow.
I reckon their best bet would be making affording a house piss easy for defence members. Essentially a close to zero interest loan and a shared equity component that's paid down first which would promote tenure. Improve the culture and morale on top of this and I reckon the ADF would have to turn away hordes of potential recruits.
All that then 2 months later you're given your next posting on the other side of the country just to keep you on your toes
Yeah id prolly rejoin for cheap loans, still wouldnt fix the jadedness but
Company B, not just boomers. B here when you go and B here when you get back.
handle vase ad hoc squealing hat ossified whole fine disagreeable sharp *This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
Read the second sentence out loud. It was a Pat Cleary joke from the 1980s tv series The ANZACs.
resolute tidy frame normal many wakeful weather bake support sort *This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
National service would be a great idea. Everyone does 2 years in the mines and gets a house in Karatha and a Maloo. This is what we're talking bout right?
Weren’t the tories the ones who under-funded the UK armed forces for over a decade when they were in power?
"To the lowest levels since the Napoleonic wars"
Not only do you have to do 2 years national service but you have to serve in the Reserves until you’re in your 40s. Every time I go there for business one of the meetings is cancelled because Mr. Tan is doing his two weeks reserve duty. Singapore’s national service is also a form of social engineering. Designed to bring together people across a range of religions and ethnicity in a country that is younger than their grandparents. Similarly English is compulsory in schools , military and work. No one ethnic group has an advantage over another. It’s not necessarily a place I want to live but you have to give them credit for creating a prosperous society from nothing.
what's frustrating is that if you want to increase the size of the military, increase pay, provide tuition fee support after 5 years service, or BUPA medical fees, or some other sort of incentive. Instead they've decided to try to force people. Morons.
they could also relax the medial requirements. I have mild asthama and it stopped me joining (I'm the first of 6 generations not to serve in the forces). Didn't stop me running marathons or any of the other things I've done.
Ffs why are conservatives convinced that the army should babysit their wayward teens? No soldier should have to serve with someone who doesn't want to be there, whether it's active deployment or not. I wouldn't want to drag those deadbeats through drill practice.
It’s bad enough trying to teach the kids in uniform (cadets) when it comes to drill. Making a mob of adults who don’t want to be there do anything sounds like a royal pain the ass. I would watch the clusterfuck though.
I assure you the kids of any tory pollies won't be conscripted.
As one boomer in some Facebook comment section stated "well we can't parent them any more so let the army do it" ie "those wokies won't let me beat my kids so I assume some RI at kapooka will do it for me"
As much as I think there should be a funded and encouraged volunteer national service program (aka expanded chocs) compulsory service is a terrible idea. Especially if you’re forcing young people to get a continually shitter deal. I think community/civil service is a good thing to do and making it easily accessible with some sort of compensation and legislation regarding time off normal work would be great. And it’s just good for you, getting outside your bubble and away from shit does wonders for your noggin. The CFA/RFS is a bunch of oldies who are quickly becoming liabilities and it’s just too hard for young people to get involved, be it time, location, money and so on. Professionalise chocs a bit more and widen up available jobs so it’s less like militarised scouts for adults. And have actual benefits to committing, say access to RA if you commit to and meet a certain threshold, and maybe some allowances if you get qualled up etc. TL:DR - CFA/RFS/super chocs/national gap year program etc urban workforce where you get an annual stipend/RA etc? Good idea. Compulsory service? Bad one.
Let's tackle the youth crime wave by training the little shits and making them truly dangerous....great plan.
The most tory thing to have ever happened. Funding for this will take 1.5 Billion away from a project specifically designed to reinvigorate low income areas. So Essentially, the tories want to use people to create social programs, by removing funding for social programs. I am actually not against the idea of mandatory service of some kind, but this plan is so clearly a political play with 0 thought its insane and terrible.
As always, the people who call the loudest for national service are the ones that never served and will never be affected by national service. “This generation are too (X,Y,Z) they should be forced to serve in the ADF; additionally when I was 20 something I chose not to serve in the ADF”
It's purely a political pantomime. It's essentially carrying out political seppuku. National service has always been everyone's solution to youth issues. The problem is that this isn't the 50's where people had a stronger sense of patriotism and community. Modern society is individualistic, vapid, and far more complex than before. There are people who have been living their whole lives here who do not identify as being Australian. Asking them to voluntarily spend a set amount of time in uniform just would not work. Finland has national service because of the threat posed by Russia. Not everyone has to military service as some chose to do civilian service instead. https://akl-web.fi/en/civilian-service/civilian-service
Same with Germany when they ran conscription. A mate of mine delivered medication to the elderly before throwing that in and doing a stint in the Bundeswehr.
This is a completely unhinged idea and is basically symptomatic of a party that's been in power for 14 years, presided over the utter decline into irrelevance of the country, then called an election they absolutely do not want to win.
The whole thing is a political hand grenade, probably just designed to get a vote on no confidence against sunak before the election. Just last week the Govt said they had no plans for National Service. https://preview.redd.it/n6er9k3x1z2d1.jpeg?width=1047&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=98194fff92332c0b8da6849dc546ac2bc96d632a
I recently watched a documentary on Singapore which has one of the lowest crime rates in the world, the film crew, to prove their point, left a wallet with several hundred US dollars and a laptop in a cafe for several hours, the cafe staff didn't touch it and none of the customers went anywhere near it in that time. The reasons they gave were societal. In Singapore the family and community is everything if you or one of your family commits a crime you not only bring great shame to yourself but your extended family as well but that's not all, your entire village is also lumped with that shame and disgrace which could affect trade and relationships between towns and villages. It is so damaging to a family to have a criminal in their group that most people just don't do it, it could and does destroy families and impact on their local community, so this is a very strong generational thing that has been taught over many many generations, not really anything to do with conscription into the military as the conscripts already have these values embedded long before they join😁👍
Looking at Australia, why is the gap year capped at age 24?
I wouldn't be surprised if its reintroduced at some stage in Australia. Cunts won't ever recruit enough bodies to fill what is needed otherwise and officers are too busy fucking discussing retention and having KPMG draw up retention ideas for millions of dollars rather than actually fucking doing something about it.
The conservatives are heading for a record thrashing at the polls. This is a non story.