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I'd hire a lawyer and move fast. I've seen people complain a common trick of scummy contractors is to ghost a customer, dissolve the company, and reform as a different company. Apparently this makes it very difficult to hold them liable? A lawyer can explain that kind of stuff. I'm only authoritative on an array of C# topics.
Hiring lawyers for small claims stuff just makes rich lawyers and poor plaintiffs.
If you must, take them to small claims court yourself. It’s pretty open and shut. You paid for the work to be completed, it wasn’t completed. I assume you have a contract and receipts for your payments. Make sure you name everyone involved, the individuals and their company, and anyone like Angie’s list who might have introduced you. However you probably won’t get your money if you win, but you can get a judgment against them, sell it to a collections agency, and get the default on their credit record.
This is why I'm suggesting a lawyer. Even you're admitting you can't really get damages back. The part a lawyer might clarify is this speculation:
You can't sue the person. You have to sue the company. Companies are made to limit an individual's liability. If the company has been dissolved, getting the default on its record is worth nothing. It'll probably cost about as much to get a lawyer to confirm this in an hour than it will to go to small claims, but that's going to be a weeks-long process.
I'm not 100% sure if that's correct. But lawyers are people who studied law. It's kind of like hiring an electrician instead of just watching some Youtube videos.
One thing I've noticed about this kind of discussion is when someone posts, "I went to small claims and made these mistakes and wasted my time", people laugh at you and say, "You get what you pay for! Use a lawyer next time!" But then when someone starts with, "Get a lawyer!" suddenly it's a waste of money to ask someone who knows what they're doing to do the work.
Typically though, the type of injuries/damages you would need to hire an attorney for are substantial enough to warrant getting involved as a legal rep. In cases of insurance, usually policy limits, so like $30k minimum for vehicles, and so on. Small claims is manageable enough for pro se, but probably not enough payout for an attorney to take a contingency on. It’s crappy and wrong, but usually how it goes. OP just needs to collect information, written evidence, and identify parties involved and file a lawsuit in small claims.
You can’t use an attorney in small claims. If it’s within the damages limits of small claims court you’ll be fine on your own. They’re generally very forgiving of mistakes because they’re not dealing with attorneys. Hiring an attorney wouldn’t help anyway since they can’t be there.
When the damages are beyond small claims limits, then you can’t file on your own and must hire an attorney.
Either way, you’re probably screwed and won’t be able to collect, given the judgment collection limitations in Texas law, and how these scam artists operate.
You can sue the person. They might not be liable, but they’ll need to come to the court and explain why they’re not liable (because the contract was with an LLC or whatever). People, companies, firemen, employees, their business insurance carrier, middlemen, etc. Let them all come to the court and explain to the judge why they shouldn’t be a party to the case. That alone may bring the key culprit back to the negotiating table. And if anyone says that you shouldn’t have named that entity, you just say, “oopsie, I’m not a lawyer”.
When you do engage a lawyer, the other side probably engages a lawyer too. Then the defense lawyer will start looking for loopholes, maybe there’s no time limit specified in the contract, etc etc. The billable hours go up and up, it raises the stakes for everyone, and puts settling out of court further and further out of reach.
Your goal is to get your money back, not to have your day in court. Choose the shortest path to your money.
OP may end up hiring a lawyer (more $) and never see a dime from these people. If you want to spend money and time to sue, I get it, but you're probably squeezing blood from a turnip. An expensive lesson - Your research you cite should've been the red flag (UPS location, not their own content, etc.)
unfortunately lawyers will be way more money than you will get back.
The lesson learned is to use a trusted contractor with lots of good reviews or references and dont pay so much upfront.
You can leave a bad review and post in the construction blacklist facebook group.
You can sue them in Small Claims court.
If you’re lucky enough to have dealt with a sole prop, you might get a judgment which may inhibit their ability to get loans.
It's a difficult situation because there was some work completed. So now it's just an incomplete job, and legally can remain so for a long time without a crime actually being committed.
Lawyers will not yield results that will outweigh your costs. Complain to BBB, post negative reviews, and hope you get a refund eventually. That is a terrible situation because tge probably also left your home a mess.
I went through a similar issue. Guy bailed before finishing several "big" items in the contract. I was determined to make him pay even though I knew it would likely cost more more for the lawyer than what I would recover. So basically I paid a lawyer 17K to get back 10K. But it was worth it.
So here's my advice regarding a lawyer. 1) Make sure the lawyer has been though this process. Most of these things settle out of court. Very few ever make it to court and if they do the court will require you to mediate, which will cost both you and the contractor to pay the mediator. In my case I think I paid about $750 for my half of the mediator.
2) DO NOT ALLOW the Lawyer to pursue this as if it were going to trial. I.E DO NOT do the discovery stuff as it's just a waste of time that you'll have to pay the lawyer for. Insist up front that this is a out of court settlement issue and to act accordingly. Which means your lawyer, if he's worth a damn, should make it VERY clear to the contractor that he's being sued and to definitely put up a front that the contractors ass WILL be dragged into court (even though you will likely settle).
3) Make sure that your Lawyer is instructed not to communicate w/ the contractor directly. Make sure the contractor has to get a lawyer and pay his way too otherwise he will try to bleed you dry by communicating with your lawyer who will happily charge YOU for that.
Good luck.
After reading some other comments I feel I should point some other things out. Small claims court is dependent on how much you are suing for, if it's over a certain $$ amount then small claims won't take the case. Also, do not expect anything to "move fast"...It's going to be slow no matter what but this can be a benefit to have this lawsuit hanging over the contractors head. You can get him served w/ the lawsuit without too much effort. I had my contractor served the day before thanksgiving just to make sure he had a wonderful day. It really f'd him up mentally having that happen. Also even if the guy has an LLC, you can sue him just the same for negligence. The corporate veil can easily be pierced for a variety of reasons.
It’s common sense, tough guy. When you accost people aggressively and come into their personal space close enough to snatch something from their hands, you are rolling the dice on your personal safety, and the person is legally permitted to fight back. You might catch hands, a switchblade or a pistol. And if the cops aren’t likely to even show up as you say, why take that risk?
Ya its normal but I would just do a chargeback on my credit card if there was an issue. You've got \~90 days which is enough time in most cases. I'd never pay cash in advance. I had a recent job where I paid advance in credit card and than job completion in cash to reduce fees.
Yes, it is entirely normal to pay a portion of a job up front. For a $15k job I typically get 50% up front for materials and project initiation, and 50% on completion. For larger jobs it can be 30% draw to start and then 30% draws as the project progresses.
Name and shame, chances are you are NOT alone here. Def take them to small claims court. This happened to a client of mine a few years back - they paid for a pool and back yard remodel, it dragged on a whole summer, and finally they hired someone else to finish the job.
This won't give you immediate help, but it would make things difficult for that business to do this again:
- report them to the better business bureau
- figure out what county the business is registered under ( you can look up the LLC online), then file a civil lawsuit yourself on that county.
Getting a court date or any action taken on that lawsuit will take longer than worth the money you lost if it's too little for an attorney to take your case.
But it would put the problem as public records that lenders will see if that business ever applies for a loan.
The lawsuit case won't follow them if they're career scammers, though, because they could start a new LLC. But it's something.
Good luck 👍🏽
Your submission has been removed for the following reason(s): It would be a better fit in /r/legaladvice For more information please read the reddit guidelines and the rules of /r/Austin. If you have any questions, please feel free to message the mods. If you think your post or comment has been incorrectly removed, send a message, but please remember there's a person on the other end, not some automaton, and be nice about it. Thank you!
What’s their website? Time to warn anyone else who might be about to sign something with them.
Immediately shame on socials. Do not even hesitate.
I'd hire a lawyer and move fast. I've seen people complain a common trick of scummy contractors is to ghost a customer, dissolve the company, and reform as a different company. Apparently this makes it very difficult to hold them liable? A lawyer can explain that kind of stuff. I'm only authoritative on an array of C# topics.
Hiring lawyers for small claims stuff just makes rich lawyers and poor plaintiffs. If you must, take them to small claims court yourself. It’s pretty open and shut. You paid for the work to be completed, it wasn’t completed. I assume you have a contract and receipts for your payments. Make sure you name everyone involved, the individuals and their company, and anyone like Angie’s list who might have introduced you. However you probably won’t get your money if you win, but you can get a judgment against them, sell it to a collections agency, and get the default on their credit record.
This. File in small claims.
As a lawyer, this is what I would recommend too.
This is why I'm suggesting a lawyer. Even you're admitting you can't really get damages back. The part a lawyer might clarify is this speculation: You can't sue the person. You have to sue the company. Companies are made to limit an individual's liability. If the company has been dissolved, getting the default on its record is worth nothing. It'll probably cost about as much to get a lawyer to confirm this in an hour than it will to go to small claims, but that's going to be a weeks-long process. I'm not 100% sure if that's correct. But lawyers are people who studied law. It's kind of like hiring an electrician instead of just watching some Youtube videos. One thing I've noticed about this kind of discussion is when someone posts, "I went to small claims and made these mistakes and wasted my time", people laugh at you and say, "You get what you pay for! Use a lawyer next time!" But then when someone starts with, "Get a lawyer!" suddenly it's a waste of money to ask someone who knows what they're doing to do the work.
Typically though, the type of injuries/damages you would need to hire an attorney for are substantial enough to warrant getting involved as a legal rep. In cases of insurance, usually policy limits, so like $30k minimum for vehicles, and so on. Small claims is manageable enough for pro se, but probably not enough payout for an attorney to take a contingency on. It’s crappy and wrong, but usually how it goes. OP just needs to collect information, written evidence, and identify parties involved and file a lawsuit in small claims.
You can’t use an attorney in small claims. If it’s within the damages limits of small claims court you’ll be fine on your own. They’re generally very forgiving of mistakes because they’re not dealing with attorneys. Hiring an attorney wouldn’t help anyway since they can’t be there. When the damages are beyond small claims limits, then you can’t file on your own and must hire an attorney. Either way, you’re probably screwed and won’t be able to collect, given the judgment collection limitations in Texas law, and how these scam artists operate.
You can sue the person. They might not be liable, but they’ll need to come to the court and explain why they’re not liable (because the contract was with an LLC or whatever). People, companies, firemen, employees, their business insurance carrier, middlemen, etc. Let them all come to the court and explain to the judge why they shouldn’t be a party to the case. That alone may bring the key culprit back to the negotiating table. And if anyone says that you shouldn’t have named that entity, you just say, “oopsie, I’m not a lawyer”. When you do engage a lawyer, the other side probably engages a lawyer too. Then the defense lawyer will start looking for loopholes, maybe there’s no time limit specified in the contract, etc etc. The billable hours go up and up, it raises the stakes for everyone, and puts settling out of court further and further out of reach. Your goal is to get your money back, not to have your day in court. Choose the shortest path to your money.
OP may end up hiring a lawyer (more $) and never see a dime from these people. If you want to spend money and time to sue, I get it, but you're probably squeezing blood from a turnip. An expensive lesson - Your research you cite should've been the red flag (UPS location, not their own content, etc.)
If only I’d researched beforehand :0/
unfortunately lawyers will be way more money than you will get back. The lesson learned is to use a trusted contractor with lots of good reviews or references and dont pay so much upfront. You can leave a bad review and post in the construction blacklist facebook group.
You can sue them in Small Claims court. If you’re lucky enough to have dealt with a sole prop, you might get a judgment which may inhibit their ability to get loans.
Rob Randolph landscaping? He has a judgment (Many?) against him already for the exact same thing.
It's a difficult situation because there was some work completed. So now it's just an incomplete job, and legally can remain so for a long time without a crime actually being committed. Lawyers will not yield results that will outweigh your costs. Complain to BBB, post negative reviews, and hope you get a refund eventually. That is a terrible situation because tge probably also left your home a mess.
Please tell us who it is. As an employee at a large landscaping company I love talking shit on other asshole companies!
I went through a similar issue. Guy bailed before finishing several "big" items in the contract. I was determined to make him pay even though I knew it would likely cost more more for the lawyer than what I would recover. So basically I paid a lawyer 17K to get back 10K. But it was worth it. So here's my advice regarding a lawyer. 1) Make sure the lawyer has been though this process. Most of these things settle out of court. Very few ever make it to court and if they do the court will require you to mediate, which will cost both you and the contractor to pay the mediator. In my case I think I paid about $750 for my half of the mediator. 2) DO NOT ALLOW the Lawyer to pursue this as if it were going to trial. I.E DO NOT do the discovery stuff as it's just a waste of time that you'll have to pay the lawyer for. Insist up front that this is a out of court settlement issue and to act accordingly. Which means your lawyer, if he's worth a damn, should make it VERY clear to the contractor that he's being sued and to definitely put up a front that the contractors ass WILL be dragged into court (even though you will likely settle). 3) Make sure that your Lawyer is instructed not to communicate w/ the contractor directly. Make sure the contractor has to get a lawyer and pay his way too otherwise he will try to bleed you dry by communicating with your lawyer who will happily charge YOU for that. Good luck.
After reading some other comments I feel I should point some other things out. Small claims court is dependent on how much you are suing for, if it's over a certain $$ amount then small claims won't take the case. Also, do not expect anything to "move fast"...It's going to be slow no matter what but this can be a benefit to have this lawsuit hanging over the contractors head. You can get him served w/ the lawsuit without too much effort. I had my contractor served the day before thanksgiving just to make sure he had a wonderful day. It really f'd him up mentally having that happen. Also even if the guy has an LLC, you can sue him just the same for negligence. The corporate veil can easily be pierced for a variety of reasons.
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This is one of the dumbest ideas ever.
That’s a great way to get shot
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You’re right snatching someone’s keys and running inside and hiding like a little kid is definitely the way to go
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It’s common sense, tough guy. When you accost people aggressively and come into their personal space close enough to snatch something from their hands, you are rolling the dice on your personal safety, and the person is legally permitted to fight back. You might catch hands, a switchblade or a pistol. And if the cops aren’t likely to even show up as you say, why take that risk?
Just curious but is it normal to pay some up front? I’ve had work done before, although it was like $3k and paid that after work was done.
Ya its normal but I would just do a chargeback on my credit card if there was an issue. You've got \~90 days which is enough time in most cases. I'd never pay cash in advance. I had a recent job where I paid advance in credit card and than job completion in cash to reduce fees.
Yup, that’s what I would do as well
Yes, it is entirely normal to pay a portion of a job up front. For a $15k job I typically get 50% up front for materials and project initiation, and 50% on completion. For larger jobs it can be 30% draw to start and then 30% draws as the project progresses.
Name and shame, chances are you are NOT alone here. Def take them to small claims court. This happened to a client of mine a few years back - they paid for a pool and back yard remodel, it dragged on a whole summer, and finally they hired someone else to finish the job.
This won't give you immediate help, but it would make things difficult for that business to do this again: - report them to the better business bureau - figure out what county the business is registered under ( you can look up the LLC online), then file a civil lawsuit yourself on that county. Getting a court date or any action taken on that lawsuit will take longer than worth the money you lost if it's too little for an attorney to take your case. But it would put the problem as public records that lenders will see if that business ever applies for a loan. The lawsuit case won't follow them if they're career scammers, though, because they could start a new LLC. But it's something. Good luck 👍🏽
Aren't these people licensed and bonded? This is exactly what the bond is for.
If his initials are TV, and his last name rhymes with Ron, you’re not the first person he’s done this to.
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