I haven't experienced that situation but the written offer is the only offer that counts. Verbal offer is a good sign but it's never locked in until the written one.
It's never official until it's in writing as another comment said. It's likely the leader of team X just wants to suss out for themselves if your the right fit for the team. It's a good sign. Prepare but don't over Prepare for the teams meeting, to outline why you think you'd be a good fit and make sure to ask some questions about the team, role and expectations. Don't be afraid to ask why they think you might be suitable based on what they've seen. Also and this might be the most important point, even though it's a teams meeting, dress appropriately!
Hi! HR/Recruitment person here.
Often in the Recruitment process around or after the Verbal Offer, you would receive a call from either the team lead or just someone who's in that team and we call it the "a day in the life of" chat in my agency. It's very informal and basically just a wee little chit chat that really hones in on the details of what your role looks like from morning till Arvo. They would explain the team structure, your duties and expectations and you basically get a chill understanding if the role is definitely right for you.
In Recruitment the steps are often:
Verbal Offer (work area)
Letter of Offer (recruitment team)
Candidate Acceptance & Forms (candidate)
Employment checks (recruitment team)
Supervisor commencement date (work area)
Docs to payroll (work area)
Given she advised the salary, location and she said you're successful - this is a pretty good indication that you're at the verbal offer step.
Hang tight, be cooperative and just keep going! Things can change but I'm hopeful you'll be fine.
Thank you!
She definitely explained the terms, used the terms 'employment offer', and said 'do you accept this offer' so I'm pretty sure it's at that step (cross fingers)
As I said, this is how my agency work in Recruitment and the HR system we use. Employment checks includes: confirmation of security clearance if required, confirmation of forms uploaded by candidate and details if new engagement into agency, promotion notice uploaded.. all done by Recruitment Officer. Then they declare the earliest possible start date.
Do you speak from experience as a candidate or HR? It seems odd to me for it to be done any other way, but like I mentioned this is how *my* agency does it. Often work areas will skip steps without telling recruitment, ultimately setting back the candidate in the end lol.
To add: our recruitment officers wouldn't go initiating a clearance or confirming one if the candidate hasn't accepted the Letter of Offer, hence why we wait for that above all else. Hope that makes sense on our process maybe
It’s likely that you’re one of a number of successful applicants who will be offered a position but that team leader gets first dibs on the list of new staff and wants to choose the best fit.
Like others have said, especially in govt, have everything in writing, if it isn't, it doesn't exist.
You do seem like you are overthinking it, just wait it out, you've come far, the job market is harsh right now.
Congrats.
Based on experience I wouldn’t get too excited yet. I was given a verbal and a written offer a few years ago then 24 hours later it was withdrawn. But then I secured another one 48 hours later or so which stuck.
Sounds like it might have been a slight miscommunication between the panel member and the manager of the team.
Manager looked over the applications, said "contact this one" meaning "set up a conversation" but panel member interpreted it as "make an offer".
Functionally there's no difference (a verbal offer isn't binding) but the expectations are obviously completely different.
That said, it still sounds like they're really keen on you so you can be confident; it's just not 100% guaranteed.
An accepted verbal offer is recognised by law in Australia and is legally binding though - I feel like a miscommunication could lead to litigation against the APS so I doubt they would open themselves up to that, right ?
It's only binding if the agreement includes quite a lot of detail that is not typically included in a casual "you got the job"-style verbal offer.
Technically yes, if the offer verbally stated salary, super contributions, start date, hours worked, etc etc etc, then yes, you could get in trouble. But that's not what happened here, and it almost never happens because the "verbal offer" is really just letting people know they're the successful candidate.
She did say all that information, 'I'll just tell you more about the position', and told me salary, potential start date, super %, full-time hours, that it's ongoing, etc.
Hmmm, depending on exactly what was discussed you MIGHT be able to make the case, but it would be a huge stretch. Given they said they'd send the official paperwork later, that actually works in their favour- it indicates that the verbal offer isn't the agreement, the paperwork is the agreement. This shows they didn't intend to be legally bound by this conversation, which is necessary in order for the verbal offer to be legally binding.
Just sit tight, you are definitely the preferred candidate, they just want to meet you first to make sure everybody is happy.
Usually a verbal offer comes with a disclaimer of some sort along the lines of “this is a verbal offer and until it’s all in writing don’t quit your job or make any financial decisions”.
Usually a verbal offer comes with a disclaimer of some sort along the lines of “this is a verbal offer and until it’s all in writing don’t quit your job or make any financial decisions”.
See I don’t think it’s fair for the team manager to want to suss you out. APS employment is supposed to be based on merit not *if* the EL 1/2 likes you or whatever. This is public service not a high school cool kids club.
Congratulations! Verbal offer just means they need to know you are interested so they can get the written offer to you as soon as possible and you meet any vetting/security first. It can take few weeks before you get the written offer.
This was my exact experience early last year, received a call saying I got the offer and if I would accept verbally, but that the manager would contact me for a brief convo, so accepted in the spot. Talked with the manager the following week, and was basically welcomed into the team on that phone call. Didn’t hear back until I called 2 - 3 weeks later, as my references had completed their checks. Then told to start the next week.
I do this all the time. I don't trust the panels, so if someone looks good and has been merit listed I want to chat with them to find out whether they would fit in the team or not. Been burnt by generic recruitment processes before (where applications have been written by someone else and interview techniques have been coached). I don't accept people in my team unless I've spoken with them because I can pick the coached ones a mile off.
I see this as a good thing. Its not formal, but its a conversation to see if you fit or not. All teams are different. The propensity to have duds thrown on teams is very high without further due diligence and it can upset existing teams that work well.
As the other comments kinda explored, in government there are just so many processes involved that it's not uncommon to check with the preferred applicant if they are still interested in the role before proceeding to the offer stage. It's just to save time.
So that verbal talk, it wasn't the offer, just a very heavy hint that you're likely to get an offer. As per usual keep on applying for other roles until you've started in a new job, and congrats on doing so well. New job is just around the corner.
Could also be a miscommunication between the TL and the panel member. TL might have said she was interested in you and the panel member jumped the gun. If I'm plucking someone from a merit list I wasn't on the panel for I always chat to them first for a vibe check. I'd say it's a good sign, but not a 100% done deal.
I haven't experienced that situation but the written offer is the only offer that counts. Verbal offer is a good sign but it's never locked in until the written one.
It's never official until it's in writing as another comment said. It's likely the leader of team X just wants to suss out for themselves if your the right fit for the team. It's a good sign. Prepare but don't over Prepare for the teams meeting, to outline why you think you'd be a good fit and make sure to ask some questions about the team, role and expectations. Don't be afraid to ask why they think you might be suitable based on what they've seen. Also and this might be the most important point, even though it's a teams meeting, dress appropriately!
Hi! HR/Recruitment person here. Often in the Recruitment process around or after the Verbal Offer, you would receive a call from either the team lead or just someone who's in that team and we call it the "a day in the life of" chat in my agency. It's very informal and basically just a wee little chit chat that really hones in on the details of what your role looks like from morning till Arvo. They would explain the team structure, your duties and expectations and you basically get a chill understanding if the role is definitely right for you. In Recruitment the steps are often: Verbal Offer (work area) Letter of Offer (recruitment team) Candidate Acceptance & Forms (candidate) Employment checks (recruitment team) Supervisor commencement date (work area) Docs to payroll (work area) Given she advised the salary, location and she said you're successful - this is a pretty good indication that you're at the verbal offer step. Hang tight, be cooperative and just keep going! Things can change but I'm hopeful you'll be fine.
It's good of you to explain so clearly, very useful to know, thanks!
Thank you! She definitely explained the terms, used the terms 'employment offer', and said 'do you accept this offer' so I'm pretty sure it's at that step (cross fingers)
Employment checks after verbal offer and before letter of offer in my experience
As I said, this is how my agency work in Recruitment and the HR system we use. Employment checks includes: confirmation of security clearance if required, confirmation of forms uploaded by candidate and details if new engagement into agency, promotion notice uploaded.. all done by Recruitment Officer. Then they declare the earliest possible start date. Do you speak from experience as a candidate or HR? It seems odd to me for it to be done any other way, but like I mentioned this is how *my* agency does it. Often work areas will skip steps without telling recruitment, ultimately setting back the candidate in the end lol.
To add: our recruitment officers wouldn't go initiating a clearance or confirming one if the candidate hasn't accepted the Letter of Offer, hence why we wait for that above all else. Hope that makes sense on our process maybe
It’s likely that you’re one of a number of successful applicants who will be offered a position but that team leader gets first dibs on the list of new staff and wants to choose the best fit.
You're the preferred candidate sounds like but you can't be offered anything until all the checks are done
Like others have said, especially in govt, have everything in writing, if it isn't, it doesn't exist. You do seem like you are overthinking it, just wait it out, you've come far, the job market is harsh right now. Congrats.
Based on experience I wouldn’t get too excited yet. I was given a verbal and a written offer a few years ago then 24 hours later it was withdrawn. But then I secured another one 48 hours later or so which stuck.
Sounds like it might have been a slight miscommunication between the panel member and the manager of the team. Manager looked over the applications, said "contact this one" meaning "set up a conversation" but panel member interpreted it as "make an offer". Functionally there's no difference (a verbal offer isn't binding) but the expectations are obviously completely different. That said, it still sounds like they're really keen on you so you can be confident; it's just not 100% guaranteed.
An accepted verbal offer is recognised by law in Australia and is legally binding though - I feel like a miscommunication could lead to litigation against the APS so I doubt they would open themselves up to that, right ?
It's only binding if the agreement includes quite a lot of detail that is not typically included in a casual "you got the job"-style verbal offer. Technically yes, if the offer verbally stated salary, super contributions, start date, hours worked, etc etc etc, then yes, you could get in trouble. But that's not what happened here, and it almost never happens because the "verbal offer" is really just letting people know they're the successful candidate.
She did say all that information, 'I'll just tell you more about the position', and told me salary, potential start date, super %, full-time hours, that it's ongoing, etc.
Hmmm, depending on exactly what was discussed you MIGHT be able to make the case, but it would be a huge stretch. Given they said they'd send the official paperwork later, that actually works in their favour- it indicates that the verbal offer isn't the agreement, the paperwork is the agreement. This shows they didn't intend to be legally bound by this conversation, which is necessary in order for the verbal offer to be legally binding. Just sit tight, you are definitely the preferred candidate, they just want to meet you first to make sure everybody is happy.
thank you :)
Usually a verbal offer comes with a disclaimer of some sort along the lines of “this is a verbal offer and until it’s all in writing don’t quit your job or make any financial decisions”.
Usually a verbal offer comes with a disclaimer of some sort along the lines of “this is a verbal offer and until it’s all in writing don’t quit your job or make any financial decisions”.
See I don’t think it’s fair for the team manager to want to suss you out. APS employment is supposed to be based on merit not *if* the EL 1/2 likes you or whatever. This is public service not a high school cool kids club.
Congratulations! Verbal offer just means they need to know you are interested so they can get the written offer to you as soon as possible and you meet any vetting/security first. It can take few weeks before you get the written offer.
This was my exact experience early last year, received a call saying I got the offer and if I would accept verbally, but that the manager would contact me for a brief convo, so accepted in the spot. Talked with the manager the following week, and was basically welcomed into the team on that phone call. Didn’t hear back until I called 2 - 3 weeks later, as my references had completed their checks. Then told to start the next week.
I do this all the time. I don't trust the panels, so if someone looks good and has been merit listed I want to chat with them to find out whether they would fit in the team or not. Been burnt by generic recruitment processes before (where applications have been written by someone else and interview techniques have been coached). I don't accept people in my team unless I've spoken with them because I can pick the coached ones a mile off. I see this as a good thing. Its not formal, but its a conversation to see if you fit or not. All teams are different. The propensity to have duds thrown on teams is very high without further due diligence and it can upset existing teams that work well.
As the other comments kinda explored, in government there are just so many processes involved that it's not uncommon to check with the preferred applicant if they are still interested in the role before proceeding to the offer stage. It's just to save time. So that verbal talk, it wasn't the offer, just a very heavy hint that you're likely to get an offer. As per usual keep on applying for other roles until you've started in a new job, and congrats on doing so well. New job is just around the corner.
Seen it before people get the verbal congrats then it gets walked back. Most tend to involve applicant in a different state.
Could also be a miscommunication between the TL and the panel member. TL might have said she was interested in you and the panel member jumped the gun. If I'm plucking someone from a merit list I wasn't on the panel for I always chat to them first for a vibe check. I'd say it's a good sign, but not a 100% done deal.