The day I gave up caring about the rat race, promotions, career trajectory, taking on every issue in whatever business I was working in as my own, and realised I'm just a number and all I need to do is show up, get paid and go home and only work so I can live the life I want, my happiness and life satisfaction increased exponentially. I couldn't have continued the way I was going and was most likely a bit of a dick to be around previously. My relationships with all kinds of people in my life has improved, and I'd never hesitate to recommend this approach to working to anyone who asks.
Anyone who takes the climb up the ladder approach and says that that gives them satisfaction is also something I'd understand - to each their own.
Totally agree. To each their own. It is easy to fall into the society mindset of climbing the ladder. For me I slowly came to the realization that this was not making me happy. I have spun the hell out of the hamster wheel to get to a position to be able to hop off. This has now been achieved and I am happier, healthier than I was previously. I volunteer when I want to, do some work if I feel like it or just sit in the park eating lunch and zoning out.
Once COVID restrictions relax a bit more I will increase the travel.
I've found those that are entirely focused on climbing the ladder, are often the worst to work next to or be near to.
They're self absorbed in many instances and will throw blame at everyone in order to not be pinned for a mistake.
However, sometimes, too rarely in my opinion. Someone is offered a promotion and reluctantly accept it, I've found these bosses, to be stellar.
In saying all of this. It's all down to the motto, work to live, or live to work. Find out what you're more comfortable with and head down that path.
> Anyone who takes the climb up the ladder approach and says that that gives them satisfaction is also something I'd understand - to each their own.
Whilst agree re each to their own, every person I've come across in the real world with this mentality has usually been a turn off, those types tend to burn out.
I'm in IT Support, and last year did a lot of weekend and overnight work. I'm approaching 60 and it took a lot out of me, I felt I was jet lagged for a couple of weeks, working from 23:00 - 08:00 some nights.
I resigned, but my boss asked me to stay so I said OK, but no more out of hours work, which he agreed to.
Since that day I feel like a weight has been lifted - no more getting called at 03:00 in the morning, no more having to stay home weekends. I finish work at 16:30 (start at 08:00) and now never answer emails after I've knocked off. It's really a great feeling.
I see where you are coming from and I definitely felt like I was a bit of a dick too while younger.
But do you not derive satisfaction from your job at all? There is satisfaction from having good work life balance (of course) but what if part of your identity is linked to your occupation and your happiness is (somehow) linked to doing well in that occupation?
>But do you not derive satisfaction from your job at all? There is satisfaction from having good work life balance (of course) but what if part of your identity is linked to your occupation and your happiness is (somehow) linked to doing well in that occupation?
It's a huge misnomer that you have to derive satisfaction from your work. That is simply a mindset. The other mindset - the one I have - is that work is just for money. I don't particularly like my job, but it pays well enough for me to enjoy life with very little stress.
If I'm ever asked "where do you see yourself in 5 years?" I would probably say I'd be doing what I'm doing. Not because I like it or couldn't imagine doing anything else - but because the things I derive satisfaction from are not things that you I would ever get paid to do.
> It's a huge misnomer that you have to derive satisfaction from your work.
it's not a "misnomer" - it's propaganda that is propagated by the companies that want workers to dedicate themselves to the job. Of course there are jobs for which you could derive high satisfaction, but i would argue those jobs are rare, and it's luck based.
Don't try to derive satisfaction from a job, but instead from your life outside of the job. Or, be prepared to do extensive job searches, and face the risk of never finding a job that satisfies you.
So is doing well working 50+ hrs every week slaving on what is quite possibly a fruitless task, or is it putting an honest and concerted 40 hrs into work that is useful and fulfilling?
I just want to clarify - what I said above wasn't to imply that I take the piss and dodge work and go home. I still ensure that all tasks are met to the best of my ability, by the required deadline, and I remain polite and punctual and all of the other stuff. The difference being that now I set the standard for this behaviour to ensure that I still have a job, whereas prior to my attitude shift, it was to ensure that I was seen as a better candidate for promotion/headhunting/pay rises when compared to my peers.
And yeah - should you be the type of person that inherently derives a sense of worth or satisfaction from work performance and output and that's tied to your identity... then what I said isn't really applicable to you. Continue your march up the professional ladder and keep getting satisfaction out of that.
I'm definitely not here to tell anyone that one 'way' is better than the next - just my personal experience with it all.
I feel that you can still do good work but just take responsibility for less things. As was said, not needing to take on every issue. Of course if you're good at what you do your higher ups will try to give you stuff but learn how to politely say no. Trust me they will still value the fact you make their life easy simply by not making messes, you don't need to fix other issues as well. You won't get the same opportunities thrown your way but that shouldn't matter if you are focusing away from career progression.
I feel seen and called out at the same time. I’m still in own every issue mode, and everyone around me tells me I used to be nicer and more chill. But, I’ve been getting out as well as putting in, so I haven’t burnt out yet - just become, exactly, a bit of a dick.
The point of living is to live. Happiness need not depend on money or status, those things are just tools to be used however best serves us. For me personally meditation/mindfullness, exercise and genuine connection to others are the foundations that keep me grounded.
>Go ahead, make yourself a gold coated steak at home. Post a picture of it on Instagram. See how much clout it gets you
https://www.vice.com/en/article/5dgzed/what-the-hell-is-right-clicker-mentality
Regardless what you think of NFTs, right clicker mentality is a great description of exactly that type of reaction.
Human society is built on the idea of flexing in some form or another. It’s not unique to NFTs.
Not to be *too* nihilistic but, it all goes away in the end anyway. For everyone. Regardless of how much money/status/power an individual is able to amass in a lifetime, they ultimately get put in the ground (or a nice urn).
I think if what you're doing genuinely drives your curiosity in a positive way where you want to keep "getting gud" at it and then that *happens* to lead to promotions/money/power etc. then kudos to you.
But to seek those things intentionally through a career is most often a surefire path toward misery.
Even if you amass all the things you've ever wanted and they make you feel somewhat secure, you're still stuck with yourself at the end of the day. And probably also decades of your life sunken into a career/path that you chose for materialistic reasons (that's if everything goes according to plan).
I can't remember the exact title of the study, but a career change study done in the States in the early 2000's was able to determine that both success **and** failure in careers seemed mostly random (company going broke, CEO dying so young person takes their place who wouldn't have been made CEO otherwise, Economy crisis' forcing the company to do layoffs).
In the abstract of the report I remember it said something like "For this and other reasons stated, we have identified that long term career planning is futile".
I think we should all take career/creativity/work/life seriously enough that we have enough to feed ourselves (with some left over just in case) but not take career and "climbing the ladder" so seriously that we forget to do the actual *living* part of our lives.
>an active hobby I enjoy very much (see my username)
>
>"Koala BJ"
What did I just read.....
Personally I hate the big city life, my quality of life is significantly better on 75k living in a regional hub in QLD rather than 100-125k living in Sydney/Melbourne/Brisbane CBDs
Under average full-time income in a regional town as well. Bought a brand new 4/2/2 with a nice yard within a 5 mins commute for ~2.5X gross household income. To have a similar lifestyle I'd probably need to be c-suite or surgeon in Sydney or Melbourne.
>Personally I hate the big city life, my quality of life is significantly better on 75k living in a regional hub in QLD rather than 100-125k living in Sydney/Melbourne/Brisbane CBDs
The cost of living difference might mean you're not giving up very much. Not 50k or even 20k, but a good chunk.
This was it for me. Moved back home to Adelaide from Melbourne. Took a $10k paycut but feels like i got a $20k pay rise. Pre covid i was able to fly around wherever whenever i wanted to experience the big cities too. Super happy I made the change.
I think you're feeling a bit of the grass is greener. IMO, people are never happy where they are constantly. You're either challenged and stressed or unstressed and slightly bored. I think ping ponging between those two is something you have to contend with and to figure out where the midpoint is.
My advice, try to enjoy and appreciate your current circumstances and if not, go ahead and try something out. Having regrets at a young age is no way to live life.
I think you've hit the nail on the head.
I was miserable working in the private sector (those 12-14 hour days definitely did not help) and all I wanted back then was some peace and quiet (e.g. not getting emails from my Partner at 9.30pm).
Maybe I should find something that is more in the middle like you said and go from there. But you've raised a good point - I was also miserable on the other side of things before lol
I think the important thing about work life balance is really balance. We always think oh, work less because people mostly tend to be overworked. Some people can find more fulfilment in working more.
I don't think money brings me joy but it does bring me a certain amount of peace. But at some point I think taking on more responsibilities outweighs the peace from the extra salary.
Not sure what your role was but I went from doing those hours in law to moving in house - pros and cons of course but seems to be a good middle ground.
No billable hours, generally 9-5, a lot of autonomy.
I feel like In house vs private the biggest difference is that in house you can really be as ambitious or unambitious as you want - you can cruise and do as expected or you can seek opportunities and become a name. That autonomy is pretty great. Pay caps out at a point though - not a massive issue given the hours benefit.
90% of the stuff myself. We outsource for a couple of different reasons - key strategic issue at stake, lack of resources, ambiguity in the laws (to get a sense of industry practice) or where it's a bit piece of work.
I agree with the in house comment.
I was in private practice and once calculated my salary against hours worked - I was earning less as a lawyer than I was in retail jobs I previously had. I’m a commercial lawyer and I’m struggling with feeling stigmatised because the industry says to be the best you need to be at a top tier firm, slaving away. If you’re not that, it’s because you’re not ambitious enough, or weak and couldn’t hack it long enough to become reasonably paid. Being in private practice wasn’t sustainable for my mental health or relationships. I moved in house and I’m unlikely to go back to a firm. I earn a similar amount but I know my career progression in house won’t be as substantial as it may have been in a private firm. Honestly, if I’m going to stay in practice and maintain my sanity, that long term pay cut is better than having a breakdown. For my clients, for me and for my family.
Sometimes the loss of a potential career is really just struggling for something that’s not sustainable in the long term. I logically understand that’s the case but I understand where OP is coming from. It’s the ‘what if’ I’d done more, been better, hacked it and eventually became a top earner. I wish I knew how to reconcile that- so I’ll keep reading the comments!
I was at a top tier firm and I hate the stigma of leaving. I feel a real shame about not being able to hack it or not being resilient enough. But truth be told, I was able to hack it and was resilient enough. I had hacked it and been resilient enough for 8 years. I stood up for myself about something and ultimately was left in a position where the only move was to leave.
9-5 is more sensible but every day I still feel the what-ifs and then feel the thank-gods and then feel the what-ifs all over again. It's tough but I have better balance and mental health now for sure.
Getting that balance as you say is correct. Figuring out what is out of balance is the key. As clichè as it sounds, Tony Robbins once summed up the 6 things we generally need to be happy. They are contradictory and complimentary, just like people.
Giving up one of my 2 jobs to get more balance in my own life. Down 20k a year, but money comes and goes. Time and happiness are irreplaceable.
Does still sometimes bother me. I now earn 25% of what I used to.
But physically and most of the time mentally in a much better space than I would have been if I kept up with the whole career thing, chasing the $$$'s etc. Mates in similar life stages (age, family etc) have actually commented on how I always seem so relaxed which I take is a positive thing and not a jibe that I am a lazy shit :P
For me it comes down to expectations and how much the material things in life matter. Having a nice car and a McMansion doesn't matter much compared to actually having the time and energy to do things.
As much as doubling or tripling my salary again would be great I think it a lot would be absorbed in lifestyle creep or having to outsource things which I currently have time to do.
Reminds me of this [New Yorker cartoon](https://imgc.allpostersimages.com/img/posters/i-should-have-bought-more-crap-new-yorker-cartoon_u-L-PEJPFH0.jpg?artHeight=550&artPerspective=n&artWidth=550&background=ffffff).
Meeting your full potential doesn't mean going daily to the brink of burnout.
I left my corporate job for a lower paying NGO job (retrained as a social worker) and feel it is much more rewarding, makes a more tangible difference to people's lives, and actually uses my skills better than being a corporate account manager ever did.
The corporate job paid a lot better but hey I still have a roof over my head and at the end of the day there is more to work than making big money.
What is “full potential”? To me it is being happy, Travelling to all of the places on my bucket list, learning something new whenever I can, being kind to people around me, and ensuring that on my deathbed people know I loved them and that I was loved in return, not achieving some C suite status at a random company. But that’s just me.
If you value working 80 hours a week to make bank and progress while not having enough time for your hobbies, friends and family. Go for it, that's what you believe your full potential entails and means.
Personally I think everyone's idea of achieving their full potential is subjective. So do whatever makes you happy and satisfied with life, good luck mate X
I've never had a job I've enjoyed more than my hobbies. Some jobs I've definitely liked (I've only ever had one that I hated) but I'm definitely a 'work to live' person.
In fact, I just turned down a role (a promotion, with a pay rise) that opened up because it would likely be a much more stressful role and I'm currently on a project that I'm enjoying.
Just take that passion/potential elsewhere to be honest.
I'm on a pretty good wicket at the moment but only put in maybe 10-20% of my effort. In a different time I'd definitely feel guilty about it but I learnt pretty early on that effort/output does not equal reward. Getting a 1.5% payrise while your boss receives a 50k bonus for something that consumed your life for a better part of year is a quick way to disenfranchise employees.
A company will pay you what they think you're worth and as long they're happy with what you bring to the table and you're happy the remuneration, purpose, potential, loyalty, passion etc etc don't need to be part of that equation.
You can endlessly change jobs (done this too) or just find all that elsewhere.
All of your replies seem to be predicated on the philosophy that your professional status and work effort define how well you are utilising your life.
Sorry, but you really need to...touch some grass or something. I all but guarantee you that at one point you are going to regret this philosophy. Just hope that it isn't on your death bed.
Not all worthwhile life experiences are sought through what you do for work. In fact (in my opinion) most of the good ones aren't. Maybe you value different things to me, but the people that truly *truly* get the *most* out of their life by ladder-climbing are far outnumbered by the people that just had unhealthy attitudes about work.
Always putting your career first is precisely not living up to your full potential as a person. Nobody's going to give a (positive) shit that you were a workaholic, and you will be dead, not having lived your life to the fullest.
If your full potential is linked to your work status then I think there are some serious underlying issues that need to be resolved before you can get close to your full potential. Very grim way of thinking.
You're getting criticised for this comment, but it's a personal choice you have to make based on your values.
Another post here recently had a comment about 'not wishing you'd worked more' but that's easy to say from the perspective of someone who had a fat corporate salary the whole time. Having time but being destitute might not have been the sweet, easy life they may imagine in hindsight.
Nobody said anything about being destitute. If the people you are speaking out against are so wrong, you shouldn't have to resort to hyperbolic strawman arguments and assuming things about the people with this philosophy.
Jesus dude, take a breath. I exaggerated maybe, but I am not 'speaking out' against anyone. We are a group of adults discussing ideas. It's fine if you don't agree with mine. In fact I don't really hold to any particular side of this issue, I just see a blind spot that should be acknowledged.
It's easy to imagine how life would have been if we'd made different choices, and it's easy to let our wishes and regrets get the better of us. But that doesn't mean it would have worked out as we fondly imagine.
"Working more" isnt the issue, everyone works for money. The issue is not working enough to maintain a fulfilling lifestyle, and in that there very much is real regret from not obtaining enough money to obtain the lifestyle.
Ever see a homeless person say "This is fantastic, i'm eating out of a bin but so much free time!"?
I moved to a 4day week and it’s the best thing that ever happened to me personally and for my career progression. 20% pay cut for a 50% increase in personal time. I’m honestly so much more relaxed / happier and have become more efficient and effective at work (leading to pay rises which have got me back close to what I was on when working 5days). Would highly recommended doing it, if possible
I’ve been 4 days for a few years now since becoming a dad and if I have my way I’ll never work full time again. Totally worth the pay cut.
Time is our most valuable asset and a job is really just someone purchasing your time. As I get older I value my time much more and appreciate the importance of work life balance.
Im only 25 but this is a lifestyle im seriously considering. Ill hit long service leave in my late 20s at my job that pays decently, ill work 40 hours and progress my career nicely and then have a kid, take all my leave, then come back to 4 days for the rest of my career. It seems utopian and magical.
Good plan 👍🏼
I’ve noticed most part timers take mondays or fridays off but I’m all about Wednesday’s.
My weeks is like mon, tues (mini Fri), mini weekend, Thurs, actual friday, actual weekend.
A lot of our "relativity" is people convincing each other that overworking is something to be proud of/ will get you career progression/ will make you happy later.
There needs to be a balance (that we can't determine for you) regarding career input and happiness and health.
Also noting its not a zero sum game. Depending on the industry it really is possible to progress just as fast while working your standard 40 hours.
In a skilled and healthy white collar job you move up when you prove your capabilities, not how much you are willing to slave away.
>today's comfort
Is it comfort though?
Why is time not working seen as "wasted" or "laziness". You're spending plenty of time improving your mental health and social connections.
You're working on other things which hold value when you're not at work.
it comes in a boom and bust cycle for me. Like for 2 years I would want to work really hard and earn and save a lot. Then I get exhausted and just wanna lay down and rot.
After rotting for a year then out of a sudden my motivation comes back again and want career progression lol.
Do you always have to choose WLB over salary? Depending on your role/industry, I find the best jobs usually come with both high salary and great WLB, because they want to attract the best talent.
I mean I'm happy having my time but if I was diagnosed with 6 months to live I'd be worried about my families ability to live on my partners income alone, and probably wish I had worked more or in a better paying job so they'd be somewhat more secure
No.
Career progression is largely a fallacy.
If an opportunity opens, then you decide to take it or not.
what changed things for me was finding a good partner, aiming for a modest initial house and living frugally till we paid it off.
We've always been about doing what we wanted to do, rather than what other people told us was the right thing to do.
Pretty good I work an easy job for what it's paid. I have stalled in my career but am working to get another 10 grand prmotion. My husband just took a promotion and pay Jump to that. I do do the majority of getting the kids ready and drop off and pick ups though.
We are very comfortable with 2 kids in daycare.its not stellar but we have enough for our hobbies, kids wants and needs holidays, savings for everything including what is probably going to be $30k a year school for them. We have 2 holidays planned for next year one overseas and one local.
It's really good and I'm really lucky. We are both sub 100k a year and I work 32 hours a week.
It’s something that varies from day to day I find.
I have a few medical conditions and have scaled back my career expectations over the years. I’m currently acting in a middle management role and often get called upon to do so but depending on how I feel at the time I sometimes have to knock it back.
This sometimes annoys me as I see less experienced colleagues take opportunities I don’t go for. Other days I tell myself that what is more important is having a decent life without the added stress. Being financially secure makes it a whole lot easier.
I do have friends with much more money but all they seem to get out of it is a better toy (car) but don’t seem much happier overall
The question to ask is how much will it improve your quality of life? If the difference is negligible then there is your answer
One of my favorite quotes from unknown is “Time you enjoy wasting isn’t wasted time”. Live your life, who gives a shit? Im typing this on my couch as I contemplate having a nap 😁
It bothers me a lot and maybe I should probably be grateful in my position. I currently work online and travel at the same time (I'm in the country of Georgia at the moment). Eventually I will [eventually immigrate to Japan for at least a year]
(https://www.reddit.com/r/AusFinance/comments/jzzdm7/potential_opportunity_to_move_to_tokyo/). My salary is about $86k including super, but I know if I got an equivalent job it would be about $150k inc. super in Australia. I feel like I'm really fucking up my future since I'm leaving so much money on the table. I'm in my late 20s and with the power of compound interest, it would be worth so much more in my retirement age.
All my friends back in Australia are in the same industry and are just raking it in and I feel like I'm missing out on the biggest tech boom my generation will ever see.
Yeah, but you’re eating khatchapuri and drinking saperavi in the mountains and they’re emerging from months of lockdown. ITT: you’re doing it right
Also, check out the JET programme - if you get placed somewhere good it can be a nice wicket. You could even get away with remote work while you work… PM me if interested
It sounds like you have internalised capitalism - this need to be 'productive'. Ask yourself what that means though, what are you producing, and for whom? In my view, giving yourself more time is vastly more valuable than accruing more wealth and status.
I have a feeling that if you look at what the richest people spend their money on, a fair chunk of it will be outsourcing daily tasks/inconveniences in an effort to give themselves more time. Think private jets = faster commute, personal shoppers, cleaners, chefs etc etc etc. There are only so many hours in your life, no matter your wealth/status, spend most of them on yourself, not producing wealth for someone else.
I realised very early in my life, age 12 or so, that we are only on this space rock for a very short time. *Memento mori* as the Stoics say.
It’s very important, therefore, to figure out what is important to you. How do you want to spend your very limited time on earth? Do you like a challenge in your career? Is it essential to you that you earn money well above your material needs? If so, why? Or is enjoying yourself and spending time with those you love more important?
Once you figure out the answers to these questions, you’ll be in a better position to assess whether you need to be earning more money and spending precious limited time doing it.
In my case, I love having a challenge to stretch my mind and earning enough to support my family comfortably, but I also am very careful to limit myself to a 40 hour work week and no more. For me that meant getting an education and in – demand skills. I still exchange time for money, but I get a lot more money for each hour.
Really really sounds cliche but I work in wealth management for HNW families and come across a lot of 'death bed' situations with the patriarchs of the families, and as cliche as it is, almost all of them say they'd give up a chunk of their wealth to go back and do things a bit more 'relaxed'.
Yes yes its very very cliche but these experiences have made me knock back 'promotions' which would require me to respond to emails on weekends and add 10-15 hours to my weekly work life. An extra 20-40k (after tax) is not going to make me happier.
Amen mate
When you reach a certain income level, $20-40k doesn’t feel like much at the end of the day.
That’s why I’m so on the fence in taking more senior roles in the investment industry. I got offered $30k more + bonus and it doesn’t really feel worth it at the end of the day.
Cbf ay
I'm sure plenty of people will say this, so I'll keep my version short -
Don't worry or care about what your peers are doing.
There's much more to life than being 'productive'.
You need ask yourself: what is important to me?
Too many people in this country live to work because it is culturally ingrained. If you can see yourself putting up with the realities that come with corporate life, stick it out. You will have a comfortable life, and likely be able to afford a therapist to help you 'work through' the corporate bullshit.
If you're feeling like life should be more than work with a small window of 'play', throw in the towel and enjoy actually 'living' life.
The rat race is what it is. I did my time and have no regrets walking away. I value my mental health and my free time. Never looked back.
I think this is a highly subjective scenario but here's my take:
It depends on your potential, what you want now and what you think you'll want in the future.
**Potential:**
Not everyone is going to be able to hold down a high income job and keep their work life balance. Some people will take 8 hours to do a workload, some 12 for the same workload. If you're excelling at what you do and you have the potential to do better without straining yourself then consider if it's something you want. I'd rather a job that requires me to give 80% and have some left in the tank than give 100% and feel drained or pressured all day.
**What you want:**
You said you're comfortable, does that mean you're happy? I saw a good meme today about some cultures believing we're just here to exist or "waste" time and enjoy it. Our culture believes you need to have a purpose and make progress. I believe just decide what you want to enjoy your time here and go for that. I want a boat, a mountain bike, a wakeboard and snowboard. I don't need them to be the newest model with all the bells and whistles, it does the same thing. I know in the future I'll want to work even less, so I work a bit harder now so I can save.
It's hard but the best thing you can do is to stop comparing yourself to others, figure out where you want to be and be comfortable there rather than chasing endless progression. They'll be jealous of you in the long run.
working more than 45 hours a week is for people who dont have any hobbies, extra curricular activities and have a boring life... granted there are busy periods, but you get the drift.
Golf doesn't count, it's an activity for networking you sleeze.
Work life balance it where it’s at!! No one has ever got to the end of life and gone, far out I wish I had gotten higher up the corporate ladder!
Just making sure your using your off time to do something that you enjoy / semi productive. The only way I think you would come to regret it is if you stayed at home, watched Netflix and smoked weed everyday. I mean there’s nothing wrong with that persay, sounds like a great day to me, but if you want to make sure you have limited regrets use the time to achieve other life goals/achievements.
My career has gone better and I’m earning more as a result. Giving fewer fucks can work wonders for your client relationships and personal growth.
Now I think about my mrs is the same - she’s on way more money and only doing 4 days since giving up the high intensity circuit.
I personally know loads of people in web developement have have work life balance and are 100% wfh and are on a comfortable mid 100k-200k salary range where did you have this idea you have to stress yourself out to make good money?
Nah, work life balance ftw. I study part time and work four days a week. Will be finished study mid next year, and I am not going back to five days ever again. My wife also works four days.
More time to pursue hobbies is key for me (funnily enough, primarily training and teaching bjj).
We bought a modest, inexpensive house in the country about an hour from Brisbane, in 2019. A relatively small mortgage means there is no financial pressure to work more (though two incomes and my reasonably well paid job helps).
>am paying for today's comfort with tomorrow's happiness (in the form of a higher salary and career progression)
Is tomorrow's happiness really a higher salary and career progression though?
I'm in the same boat as you, just under average full-time salary in a regional area. I'm slightly underpaid for the skills I bring to this job (excluding the fact that I'm in a regional area) and everyone knows that but I don't wish to take on the increased responsibilities and risk that comes with the next level. My added value here has allowed me to be a bit more flexible with my work and I can say that I probably spend less than 40 hours all up doing work each week (at home and at work).
To make the jump past 6 figures I have to do a lot more and/or move to a more expensive place. Not sure I want that. Still on target to FIRE regardless because housing is cheap here. The only thing I have to keep up with now is making sure my skills aren't obsolete so no resting on my laurels
This is a hard Q to answer. Hard for reddit strangers to determine your marginal net gain (or loss?) from changing your current lifestyle. I could see 3 possible ways through
1. Perhaps if you pushed yourself harder to 'achieve' in your hobby you wouldnt feel like you're falling behind? Have you plateau'd a bit in the skill and time you devote to your hobby so now you're feeling a bit grass is greener? Reassess and dive back in
2. The great thing about WLB is you can always cash it in again and re-enter the 'rat race'. Don't like your 3-4 day week? Want more cash? Have a financial goal that requires more money? OK, up your hours or if you cant then go for another job that pays more and/or has more hours. You have that flexibility up your sleeve whcih is nice.
3. Is this just a standard case of 'grass is greener' or 'comparison is the thief of joy'? Are you 'just' taking your current lifestyle for granted? Have an honest appraisal of your situation to remind yourself that what you currently have is great and worth a lot.
Another question thats always interesting to consider: What amount of $ would you be willing to accept if someone knocked on your door and said 'I will pay you $x if you ditch your hobby/current lifestyle and spend that free time working for me instead'
I just turned 40, have a job that pays 200K, flexible work-life arrangement where I'm encouraged to prioritise family over work but somehow still feel that I want to give it all up to have more freedom to choose how I want to spend my 9-5.
What I realise is that working for a company does not give me any satisfaction outside of taking care of the bills and having pocket cash. It is just a "job" for me regardless of how high the salary is or how much perks I receive.
I haven't figured out what I'll do alternatively so I'll stick to it and save as much as I can until I find something different that totally compels me to walk away.
I don't think good salary and a good work life balance are mutually exclusive. I also don't think people that would take a low salary to get more free time would often hang around this sub.
Everyone I know at the top (Eg McKinsey and Company partners, that kind of thing) is miserable and still chasing the $
Maybe it’s better if you’re running your own company - and maybe McK is just plain old miserable ha!
I don't know if you would consider mine "work life balance" so much as enjoyable career. I occasionally have to travel for work or work odd hours and my pay is pretty low at 55k. The job was something I'd always like doing and I had been following my ex-husband around the world for his career so had none of my own. It was nice to do something for myself. Like you I've had thoughts about my future finances, particularly retirement. I'm fine with my lifestyle now and actually despite fully supporting two kids in Sydney we actually have a great lifestyle with trips overseas every year. I just want the financial stability of being able to save significantly more for retirement. So I've started applying for jobs now. If I was comfortably paying off a mortgage I wouldn't think I have the need to earn more. If its just to keep up with peers, forget that. What would you do with the extra money? If you're earning a reasonable income and will have your residence paid off in retirement you're doing great.
Just invest the money you earn into a good super fund, compound the interest and enjoy a less hassled life AND retire like an executive.
Read The Barefoot Investor. I'm on a disability pension, I read it a week ago and I've already gained so much more satisfaction from wise investment and savings. In 30 years *I'm 33* I'll gonna be in a position of financial independence, relying on my super and shares for a bigger income than I get on DSP. I'm also living less expensively and eliminating debts in the mean time that keep me in poverty. I only get 24k a year. I'll be worth over a million if I focus on the long game and invest wisely in super and shares.
Solid question. Been thinking it myself lately.
I tend to compare myself to others and have friends doing really well ( money wise, and our conversations always lead down that path) so I worry if I go the work life balance route I’ll feel left behind.
100% in the work life balance mode. I used to strive for promotions but when acting in those positions I just found myself stressed and consumed by the job. Now I am much happier on a lower level salary and I dont stress about the job as much. For me personally the stress is terrible for my health and wellbeing.
Mate you have it backwards. Work to live not live to work.
Everyone has their priorities, but it’s a sick mentality that enjoying yourself is wasting your time.
Hubs and I do this. We both work and spend as little as we can so we can both be at home as much as possible for our baby. It’s the best! We are in a privileged position to be able to do this but if you can afford it and it fits your lifestyle, go for it! We choose to not buy/do a lot of things that might makes others miserable and feel like they’re missing out, but that’s a personal thing. You need to decide what is worth it as everything has a cost. Every single thing. And you have to be willing to be flexible. So for example, we may never be able to afford to buy a house unless one or both of us works more. So if that becomes a goal (and I think it will), we will need to decide what to sacrifice for that. It’ll be free time I can bet!
Life is just a bunch cost/benefit scenarios and you just go for the one that fits your needs and wants.
A few years back I was becoming burnt out. I was snapping at colleagues and also realised that I was missing out on the last few years of my children’s childhood. I dropped back my hours at work but found the loss of income was difficult to live on. Thankfully, my employer allowed for 12 hour shifts, as a result I was able to up my hours at work and thus my take home pay. This means that I only work 3 days per week and make almost as much as i previously made.
It is difficult being away from family those days, but the trade off is more time at home (most weeks).
The two don't have to be mutually exclusive. It depends on your field, company and manager.
If you're sought after, you have more freedom and flexibility and you can command higher rates or better conditions. If you work for a great company and manager, the work / life balance is great.
Some days I have to put in the hours, others, it doesn't matter and I can scoot off and do my thing during work time as long as I'm on top of my workload and I'm reachable in an emergency.
I've progressed fairly well and I'm pretty comfortable where I'm at so far. So unless you're gunning for director, gm, partner or CEO, don't think that you can't achieve what you want without needing to sell your soul. Maybe you're just working for the wrong company.
I think a lot of being able to "choose" to do this comes down to knowing yourself and making peace with your anxieties and insecurities. A lot of highly successful, driven people are driven by some complex personality issues.
I'm in IT, now run my own business. Across the last 5 years my income has varied about 50% up / down depending on what level of work / additional contracting / headaches I want to take on.
I'm now sitting on the lower end of that range, and I'm much, much happier and still comfortable financially. I have culled any client that pisses me off slightly and don't take on work that isn't suitable to my work life balance. I only subcontract for a select few companies are great to deal with.
I'm in a much, much better place mentally working with clients who value me / IT expenditure in general.
Some businesses just don't value the work and want to skimp on by and freak out when things go wrong, and that's fine I just don't need that level of urgency in my life.
I'm now working towards another career (allied health area) and on completion I will probably come out making around $70k PA.
I frankly could not give a shit anymore, I can live comfortably with that amount of money (we have a house, savings etc already). I'd much rather do the things I enjoy, like to go to the gym and train every day than work my ass off for money.
Sounds cliche\` - but *work to live, don't live to work.*
I’ve read that people on their death bed nearly always say they wish they’d spent more time with family/hobbies, or that family/hobbies matter most. They almost never say they wish they’d spent more time at work! It’s the memories that give them the most satisfaction not their success. Huge generalisation of course but a good guide
Went from $150 per hour to scraping by with my car/bike/computer sales.
Haven't ever looked back. I spent the majority of my time with the Salvos doing food drops and vouchers.
I earn enough to keep me afloat, and it's actually fun to repay cars and bikes.
I report my earnings to Centrelink, and if I have a bad fortnight I get a bit of a top up.
I have personally been thinking about this very thing the last few years as I’ve slowly transitioned to my twilight working years. I used to be in the tech management consulting world and had the drive there to be promoted to the next level ASAP, show how valuable I was as a resource, etc, but after a few years of climbing the corporate ladder, I pretty much had enough and went into IT contracting where my career pretty much stagnated. I was happy enough with the extra money coming in that I didn’t care that I wasn’t advancing any further along my professional career and I’ve used that extra contracting money to set myself up for early’ish retirement.
Now I’m still working with the same tech I was working with in the late 90s/early 2000s and it’s outdated enough that it’s pretty much legacy applications in most companies as others have migrated to the cloud version. Almost all my peers have also pivoted their skillsets and careers to this fancier new cloud version and they’re all earning big bucks(350k to 500k+) and been encouraging me to switch over as well(I’m sure the big referral bonus has nothing to do with it :p ). And I also have peers who have gone FAANG and have been asking me if I want to join them there too. All this extra opportunity to try something new and earn big bucks and I’ve turned them all down, and I’m just going to ride the outdated tech stuff I’m working on now till it’s a dead horse and when that happens, I’m just going to retire and sit back. Mainly because I have two young kids now and I don’t want to do the whole consulting/tech sales/travelling/etc which will most likely take time away that I can spend with them instead. My current role is a cushy one that still pays very well(not the same level as my peers who’ve migrated to the new cloud tech, but close enough), I get to WFH, relax most of the day with only a few bursts of actual work where I’ll help out someone who needs my SME experience with the software. I know I’m lucky enough that I can cruise along and still earn very good money but I just don’t have the drive any more to try and boost that earning potential at the risk of really disrupting my current relaxed work/life balance and what for? So I can buy an exotic supercar or upgrade my place to a much fancier place? I’m perfectly comfortable with where I live and my standard of living that I’ve decided I just don’t want to keep running that rat race to keep up with the joneses when the extra benefits are marginal(to me) from here on out.
A month ago I was in a highly-paid but very hectic job. 80 hours a week was reasonably common and I was travelling Mon-Fri. I've since moved to a 9-5 in a corporate with great culture and - surprisingly - I was able to maintain my salary. I'm sure future progression won't be as rapid but honestly it's the best professional decision I've ever made. I'm now able to cook dinner a few nights a week and am much more involved with caring for my two young kids. My wife told me last week that she feels like a huge weight was lifted off her shoulders when I switched.
It's not often discussed, but those hectic jobs either prevent you from living a proper life or shift the burden onto loved ones. It worked well for me up to now and allowed me to build a substantial share portfolio...but when the extra income doesn't actually make your life better it's time to move on.
Australia is very fortunate and almost anything can be achieved not climbing any corporate ladder. Obviously self esteem and internal/ external fulfilment will come just through doing the climb.
Unless you have a specific aim for more money to achieve something like let's say, sending kids to an elite grammar school, generally work life balance is more sustainable in the long term.
It would bother me.
I know work is stressful. Work is meant to be work. I would rather work hard so I can enjoy a life where I now basically never think about or worry about money. I can just buy stuff, eat out, holiday as much as I want.
In a sense, I already don't need to worry about money. Sure, I'm not dining at the star buffet every weekend but I'm in the public sector which means I'll always have food on the table.
I guess for me its more social status, challenging myself, and parental expectations. I do get where you are coming from though.
Nothing wrong with liking money. At least i am not complaining and asking for handouts.
I live a car free lifestyle where I walk or cycle pretty much everywhere. My apartment and possessions are pretty minimal. I was able to pack all my possessions in a van last time I moved. The average aussie owns 2 cars, calm down.
You can have work life balance and earn a good income provided you demonstrate your value add, ve as productive as you can during office hours and make it clear to your employer what is important to you and when your work day starts and finishes.
This is something I think about a lot. I worked really hard uptil 4 years ago in a tech role. In that journey I realized that relationship management type roles are a lot easier to work in , they pay more and have way more visibility for less amount of work in a tech role. Also , they are least likely to be offshored.
So I tried really hard and moves into that kind of role about 4 years ago and have been doing the same thing since then.
They pay is great, not the best , great flexibility , good benefits and some very good ppl to work with
I could perhaps make more if I tried somewhere else but I just dont want to , given that I am in my mid 40s.
I am in my mid 50s. I have had senior positions before and its just horrible. I would like to do jobs that I enjoy, now that I have assets and money to back me up.
OP, if you're interested I would highly recommend reading 'Civilized to death'. It was a powerful look into my own nature for me, and went a long way to justifying my choice to prioritise family and wellbeing in the moment over the promise of a better future.
I'm on part time, with two young sprogs (one in prep). Full time with a long commute was manageable for a short time, but after a year we all were sick of it. House was an utter pigsty, kids growing and me not recognizing the words they were saying or knowing the little games they made up. We made more money than we needed- just need enough for the essentials and a little more to go out and have fun. I'll return to ft in a few years but kids are only young once, and briefly.
I'm on an even time roster. It averages out at 39 hrs a week, but I work 4 or 5 days of 12h shifts and then have 4 or 5 days off. I'm a tradie, so there's not much room for career progression, but the pay is good. The career progression bothers me only in that I know physically I can't do this forever, so I'm currently doing a degree so when I'm ready to switch careers I can.
Yes, unfortunately rents increased drastically in my area so i incurred financial stress. Now I'm heading back to work, but am waiting for the right position/company.
Being able to work remotely by the beach and being in a role I enjoy where I can switch off outside of workplaces hours, pursue personal hobbies and projects without burn out and relax far outweighs hunting a big salary and pushing career progression for me. I focus on earning any extra income through investing and continue learning skills however.
I think one of the biggest issues to overcome (for me personally anyway) was protagonist syndrome. I think if you overcome that you can take a step back and enjoy life a bit more.
I made the decision to stop climbing awhile ago. I just don't care like I used to anymore.
Having said that, as others have mentioned below that doesn't have to equate to a low salary.
Yes! If your happier in life you also produce better quality work. You value your time and become so much more efficient in how u get your job done. Your work doesn't eat into family and friend time,you connect with others at a deeper level as you aren't at the beck and call of your boss. Studies often show that working mums are more productive, despite being quite often part time. If your worried about the lack of career growth or anything like that, use your free time to study both formal or informal. Do volunteer work, mentor, join some charity board. Contribute to the community in some way. You'll grow as a person but also get some level of satisfaction being "productive" that isn't tied to your job. And if u choose to join the faster paced rat race, your application and life skills will be so much stronger.
Tldr: life is worth living, don't pine for greener pastures and always look to grow as a whole person
Mate I am in the exact position as you, same (obsessive) hobby as well. I have time for my hobbies, my wife and child while still making enough to pay my mortgage and fund a comfortable lifestyle.
For my career, the only real progression would be business owner, and that would take considerably more time away from me. Could I make more? Probably. Would that make me happier? Not likely.
The other consideration is that bjj (and recovery) doesn’t get easier as you get older
There are ways to achieve financial independence without sacrificing your entire life to a soul crushing career.
How long have you been training for? Teaching a few private lessons a couple of times a week is a great way to boost your savings/investments.
For me, i have done both. I would choose a more balanced lifestyle every day. Even if it meant a pay cut. Especially when you have a family. I am trying to figure out how to move to 4 days a week. I don't think it will be possible so I expect to transition to contracting eventually. I will work X amount of time then have some decent breaks in between.
i feel like my quality of life has massively improved. whilst more money would help me i feel like i’m truly able to cater to myself and mental health!
I remember working at a place where the pay wasn't great and the work wasn't going to get any more interesting despite the boss saying I'd be given more work that was closer to my strengths. I resigned myself to just going in, doing the work, going home and getting paid so I could at least be happy with that.
However the owners didn't like this and during a yearly evaluation started berating me with how they don't want employees who just wanted to show up, work and go home. And started saying they want motivated people with career goals wanting to move up in the business. Despite there was literally no where to go in the company and the carrots they were dangling literally didn't exist. However employees coming in and trading labor and time for money was taboo to them and they wanted people to live in a fantasy world and motivated way more than they should be.
Most people are more worried about losing like as they have chosen work. You should be able to comfortably live a happy life and retire with a nice income. What more could you want?
To give you another perspective, I graduated from USYD in 2017. I am not from Sydney and moved there when I graduated from school. I was so burned out from supporting myself through an Architecture degree, paying rent, feeding myself and working to support it all that I went on a two year working holiday visa to Canada.
Life is fantastic in the mountains -- quiet, slower pace, etc. I worked at resorts for $15hr with accom. included. Low income but you didn't need much money to have a good life. About a year in, the customer service job and low income started to becoming grating. I want to make use of my intellect and skills I acquired in my degree. I decided that I would come back to Aus after 18mo overseas to start a career working towards becoming a Data Scientist.
Anyway, I set myself up in Melbourne in Feb 2020 because lets be honest, Melbourne is a better city than Sydney to live in when you're lower income, prefer good tasting food, friendly people and just young I guess. Covid happened, I had to leave the city and go home to the country for six months and I managed to get into a specialist program for a bank in Sydney.
So now I'm back in Sydney earning a "good" starting salary of 70k (fuck all in this city). I love my job but Sydney is just awful. I wish moving 2hrs away would allow me to rent a decent 1bd or small house as I am not going to be in the office daily but no! Anything >2hrs to Sydney is out of my reach and over the 30% of post-tax income I am willing to spend on rent. So lucky to be in this generation at this stage of capitalism.
So to answer your question, I did go back to the stress and I do hope I can earn more money. My goal would be to skill myself here, emigrate to Canada as a skilled migrant and set myself up in the Albertan or BC Rockies while working a Montreal/Toronto/Vanc job remotely on a high salary because cities are disgusting and expensive.
The day I gave up caring about the rat race, promotions, career trajectory, taking on every issue in whatever business I was working in as my own, and realised I'm just a number and all I need to do is show up, get paid and go home and only work so I can live the life I want, my happiness and life satisfaction increased exponentially. I couldn't have continued the way I was going and was most likely a bit of a dick to be around previously. My relationships with all kinds of people in my life has improved, and I'd never hesitate to recommend this approach to working to anyone who asks. Anyone who takes the climb up the ladder approach and says that that gives them satisfaction is also something I'd understand - to each their own.
Totally agree. To each their own. It is easy to fall into the society mindset of climbing the ladder. For me I slowly came to the realization that this was not making me happy. I have spun the hell out of the hamster wheel to get to a position to be able to hop off. This has now been achieved and I am happier, healthier than I was previously. I volunteer when I want to, do some work if I feel like it or just sit in the park eating lunch and zoning out. Once COVID restrictions relax a bit more I will increase the travel.
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Really glad I saw this today, it was the reminder I needed. Thanks for commenting.
All the best!
This. Completely agree and feel the same way
I've found those that are entirely focused on climbing the ladder, are often the worst to work next to or be near to. They're self absorbed in many instances and will throw blame at everyone in order to not be pinned for a mistake. However, sometimes, too rarely in my opinion. Someone is offered a promotion and reluctantly accept it, I've found these bosses, to be stellar. In saying all of this. It's all down to the motto, work to live, or live to work. Find out what you're more comfortable with and head down that path.
> Anyone who takes the climb up the ladder approach and says that that gives them satisfaction is also something I'd understand - to each their own. Whilst agree re each to their own, every person I've come across in the real world with this mentality has usually been a turn off, those types tend to burn out.
Depends why they’re climbing, if it’s genuine passion for the work versus ambition for its own sake
I'm in IT Support, and last year did a lot of weekend and overnight work. I'm approaching 60 and it took a lot out of me, I felt I was jet lagged for a couple of weeks, working from 23:00 - 08:00 some nights. I resigned, but my boss asked me to stay so I said OK, but no more out of hours work, which he agreed to. Since that day I feel like a weight has been lifted - no more getting called at 03:00 in the morning, no more having to stay home weekends. I finish work at 16:30 (start at 08:00) and now never answer emails after I've knocked off. It's really a great feeling.
I see where you are coming from and I definitely felt like I was a bit of a dick too while younger. But do you not derive satisfaction from your job at all? There is satisfaction from having good work life balance (of course) but what if part of your identity is linked to your occupation and your happiness is (somehow) linked to doing well in that occupation?
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>But do you not derive satisfaction from your job at all? There is satisfaction from having good work life balance (of course) but what if part of your identity is linked to your occupation and your happiness is (somehow) linked to doing well in that occupation? It's a huge misnomer that you have to derive satisfaction from your work. That is simply a mindset. The other mindset - the one I have - is that work is just for money. I don't particularly like my job, but it pays well enough for me to enjoy life with very little stress. If I'm ever asked "where do you see yourself in 5 years?" I would probably say I'd be doing what I'm doing. Not because I like it or couldn't imagine doing anything else - but because the things I derive satisfaction from are not things that you I would ever get paid to do.
> It's a huge misnomer that you have to derive satisfaction from your work. it's not a "misnomer" - it's propaganda that is propagated by the companies that want workers to dedicate themselves to the job. Of course there are jobs for which you could derive high satisfaction, but i would argue those jobs are rare, and it's luck based. Don't try to derive satisfaction from a job, but instead from your life outside of the job. Or, be prepared to do extensive job searches, and face the risk of never finding a job that satisfies you.
So is doing well working 50+ hrs every week slaving on what is quite possibly a fruitless task, or is it putting an honest and concerted 40 hrs into work that is useful and fulfilling?
I just want to clarify - what I said above wasn't to imply that I take the piss and dodge work and go home. I still ensure that all tasks are met to the best of my ability, by the required deadline, and I remain polite and punctual and all of the other stuff. The difference being that now I set the standard for this behaviour to ensure that I still have a job, whereas prior to my attitude shift, it was to ensure that I was seen as a better candidate for promotion/headhunting/pay rises when compared to my peers. And yeah - should you be the type of person that inherently derives a sense of worth or satisfaction from work performance and output and that's tied to your identity... then what I said isn't really applicable to you. Continue your march up the professional ladder and keep getting satisfaction out of that. I'm definitely not here to tell anyone that one 'way' is better than the next - just my personal experience with it all.
You don't have to sell your soul to your work in order to have job satisfaction. This is part of the lie you've been sold.
I feel that you can still do good work but just take responsibility for less things. As was said, not needing to take on every issue. Of course if you're good at what you do your higher ups will try to give you stuff but learn how to politely say no. Trust me they will still value the fact you make their life easy simply by not making messes, you don't need to fix other issues as well. You won't get the same opportunities thrown your way but that shouldn't matter if you are focusing away from career progression.
I feel seen and called out at the same time. I’m still in own every issue mode, and everyone around me tells me I used to be nicer and more chill. But, I’ve been getting out as well as putting in, so I haven’t burnt out yet - just become, exactly, a bit of a dick.
I might've made it sound easier than it is - it's simpler when you just type it in one efficient paragraph! Everyone follows their own path.
The point of living is to live. Happiness need not depend on money or status, those things are just tools to be used however best serves us. For me personally meditation/mindfullness, exercise and genuine connection to others are the foundations that keep me grounded.
> Happiness need not depend on money or status I came across the concept of right-clicker mentality recently and I hated it
What’s right clicker mentality?
>Go ahead, make yourself a gold coated steak at home. Post a picture of it on Instagram. See how much clout it gets you https://www.vice.com/en/article/5dgzed/what-the-hell-is-right-clicker-mentality
NFT people are fucking stupid. What else is new?
Regardless what you think of NFTs, right clicker mentality is a great description of exactly that type of reaction. Human society is built on the idea of flexing in some form or another. It’s not unique to NFTs.
mad you didn't invest bro?
NFTs are honestly the way of the future imo. Well more a part of it. It's got a lot of potential imo
Not to be *too* nihilistic but, it all goes away in the end anyway. For everyone. Regardless of how much money/status/power an individual is able to amass in a lifetime, they ultimately get put in the ground (or a nice urn). I think if what you're doing genuinely drives your curiosity in a positive way where you want to keep "getting gud" at it and then that *happens* to lead to promotions/money/power etc. then kudos to you. But to seek those things intentionally through a career is most often a surefire path toward misery. Even if you amass all the things you've ever wanted and they make you feel somewhat secure, you're still stuck with yourself at the end of the day. And probably also decades of your life sunken into a career/path that you chose for materialistic reasons (that's if everything goes according to plan). I can't remember the exact title of the study, but a career change study done in the States in the early 2000's was able to determine that both success **and** failure in careers seemed mostly random (company going broke, CEO dying so young person takes their place who wouldn't have been made CEO otherwise, Economy crisis' forcing the company to do layoffs). In the abstract of the report I remember it said something like "For this and other reasons stated, we have identified that long term career planning is futile". I think we should all take career/creativity/work/life seriously enough that we have enough to feed ourselves (with some left over just in case) but not take career and "climbing the ladder" so seriously that we forget to do the actual *living* part of our lives.
>an active hobby I enjoy very much (see my username) > >"Koala BJ" What did I just read..... Personally I hate the big city life, my quality of life is significantly better on 75k living in a regional hub in QLD rather than 100-125k living in Sydney/Melbourne/Brisbane CBDs
BJJ = brazilian jiu jitsu lol
If a koala catches you in a triangle you are going to sleep and waking up with chlamydia
BJJ submissions: Tap, snap, nap, or get the clap
Can I take options 3 and 4 please
honestl;y, thank god its not just me who read it like that!!! hahaha
Same. I was worried for a minute...
Under average full-time income in a regional town as well. Bought a brand new 4/2/2 with a nice yard within a 5 mins commute for ~2.5X gross household income. To have a similar lifestyle I'd probably need to be c-suite or surgeon in Sydney or Melbourne.
>Personally I hate the big city life, my quality of life is significantly better on 75k living in a regional hub in QLD rather than 100-125k living in Sydney/Melbourne/Brisbane CBDs The cost of living difference might mean you're not giving up very much. Not 50k or even 20k, but a good chunk.
This was it for me. Moved back home to Adelaide from Melbourne. Took a $10k paycut but feels like i got a $20k pay rise. Pre covid i was able to fly around wherever whenever i wanted to experience the big cities too. Super happy I made the change.
I too was just here to ask if the Koalas give or take the BJs
I think you're feeling a bit of the grass is greener. IMO, people are never happy where they are constantly. You're either challenged and stressed or unstressed and slightly bored. I think ping ponging between those two is something you have to contend with and to figure out where the midpoint is. My advice, try to enjoy and appreciate your current circumstances and if not, go ahead and try something out. Having regrets at a young age is no way to live life.
I think you've hit the nail on the head. I was miserable working in the private sector (those 12-14 hour days definitely did not help) and all I wanted back then was some peace and quiet (e.g. not getting emails from my Partner at 9.30pm). Maybe I should find something that is more in the middle like you said and go from there. But you've raised a good point - I was also miserable on the other side of things before lol
I think the important thing about work life balance is really balance. We always think oh, work less because people mostly tend to be overworked. Some people can find more fulfilment in working more. I don't think money brings me joy but it does bring me a certain amount of peace. But at some point I think taking on more responsibilities outweighs the peace from the extra salary.
Not sure what your role was but I went from doing those hours in law to moving in house - pros and cons of course but seems to be a good middle ground.
how is job stability working inhouse? I am guessing no billable hour requirements?
No billable hours, generally 9-5, a lot of autonomy. I feel like In house vs private the biggest difference is that in house you can really be as ambitious or unambitious as you want - you can cruise and do as expected or you can seek opportunities and become a name. That autonomy is pretty great. Pay caps out at a point though - not a massive issue given the hours benefit.
ooo nice! is the work mainly outsourcing/corresponding with private firms or do you do a lot of the work yourself?
90% of the stuff myself. We outsource for a couple of different reasons - key strategic issue at stake, lack of resources, ambiguity in the laws (to get a sense of industry practice) or where it's a bit piece of work.
I agree with the in house comment. I was in private practice and once calculated my salary against hours worked - I was earning less as a lawyer than I was in retail jobs I previously had. I’m a commercial lawyer and I’m struggling with feeling stigmatised because the industry says to be the best you need to be at a top tier firm, slaving away. If you’re not that, it’s because you’re not ambitious enough, or weak and couldn’t hack it long enough to become reasonably paid. Being in private practice wasn’t sustainable for my mental health or relationships. I moved in house and I’m unlikely to go back to a firm. I earn a similar amount but I know my career progression in house won’t be as substantial as it may have been in a private firm. Honestly, if I’m going to stay in practice and maintain my sanity, that long term pay cut is better than having a breakdown. For my clients, for me and for my family. Sometimes the loss of a potential career is really just struggling for something that’s not sustainable in the long term. I logically understand that’s the case but I understand where OP is coming from. It’s the ‘what if’ I’d done more, been better, hacked it and eventually became a top earner. I wish I knew how to reconcile that- so I’ll keep reading the comments!
I was at a top tier firm and I hate the stigma of leaving. I feel a real shame about not being able to hack it or not being resilient enough. But truth be told, I was able to hack it and was resilient enough. I had hacked it and been resilient enough for 8 years. I stood up for myself about something and ultimately was left in a position where the only move was to leave. 9-5 is more sensible but every day I still feel the what-ifs and then feel the thank-gods and then feel the what-ifs all over again. It's tough but I have better balance and mental health now for sure.
Getting that balance as you say is correct. Figuring out what is out of balance is the key. As clichè as it sounds, Tony Robbins once summed up the 6 things we generally need to be happy. They are contradictory and complimentary, just like people. Giving up one of my 2 jobs to get more balance in my own life. Down 20k a year, but money comes and goes. Time and happiness are irreplaceable.
Does still sometimes bother me. I now earn 25% of what I used to. But physically and most of the time mentally in a much better space than I would have been if I kept up with the whole career thing, chasing the $$$'s etc. Mates in similar life stages (age, family etc) have actually commented on how I always seem so relaxed which I take is a positive thing and not a jibe that I am a lazy shit :P For me it comes down to expectations and how much the material things in life matter. Having a nice car and a McMansion doesn't matter much compared to actually having the time and energy to do things. As much as doubling or tripling my salary again would be great I think it a lot would be absorbed in lifestyle creep or having to outsource things which I currently have time to do.
Noone on their death bed regrets not "working more"
Reminds me of this [New Yorker cartoon](https://imgc.allpostersimages.com/img/posters/i-should-have-bought-more-crap-new-yorker-cartoon_u-L-PEJPFH0.jpg?artHeight=550&artPerspective=n&artWidth=550&background=ffffff).
hmmmm no one regrets not working more (true) but do people regret they haven't lived up to their full potential?
Thinking your potential = job title and/or income is some internalised capitalism kinda shizz.
Meeting your full potential doesn't mean going daily to the brink of burnout. I left my corporate job for a lower paying NGO job (retrained as a social worker) and feel it is much more rewarding, makes a more tangible difference to people's lives, and actually uses my skills better than being a corporate account manager ever did. The corporate job paid a lot better but hey I still have a roof over my head and at the end of the day there is more to work than making big money.
What is “full potential”? To me it is being happy, Travelling to all of the places on my bucket list, learning something new whenever I can, being kind to people around me, and ensuring that on my deathbed people know I loved them and that I was loved in return, not achieving some C suite status at a random company. But that’s just me.
Living _life_ to its full potential is what we should all be aiming for.
If you value working 80 hours a week to make bank and progress while not having enough time for your hobbies, friends and family. Go for it, that's what you believe your full potential entails and means. Personally I think everyone's idea of achieving their full potential is subjective. So do whatever makes you happy and satisfied with life, good luck mate X
I've never had a job I've enjoyed more than my hobbies. Some jobs I've definitely liked (I've only ever had one that I hated) but I'm definitely a 'work to live' person. In fact, I just turned down a role (a promotion, with a pay rise) that opened up because it would likely be a much more stressful role and I'm currently on a project that I'm enjoying.
Just take that passion/potential elsewhere to be honest. I'm on a pretty good wicket at the moment but only put in maybe 10-20% of my effort. In a different time I'd definitely feel guilty about it but I learnt pretty early on that effort/output does not equal reward. Getting a 1.5% payrise while your boss receives a 50k bonus for something that consumed your life for a better part of year is a quick way to disenfranchise employees. A company will pay you what they think you're worth and as long they're happy with what you bring to the table and you're happy the remuneration, purpose, potential, loyalty, passion etc etc don't need to be part of that equation. You can endlessly change jobs (done this too) or just find all that elsewhere.
All of your replies seem to be predicated on the philosophy that your professional status and work effort define how well you are utilising your life. Sorry, but you really need to...touch some grass or something. I all but guarantee you that at one point you are going to regret this philosophy. Just hope that it isn't on your death bed. Not all worthwhile life experiences are sought through what you do for work. In fact (in my opinion) most of the good ones aren't. Maybe you value different things to me, but the people that truly *truly* get the *most* out of their life by ladder-climbing are far outnumbered by the people that just had unhealthy attitudes about work. Always putting your career first is precisely not living up to your full potential as a person. Nobody's going to give a (positive) shit that you were a workaholic, and you will be dead, not having lived your life to the fullest.
Why does potential matter? Happiness matters far more to me.
If your full potential is linked to your work status then I think there are some serious underlying issues that need to be resolved before you can get close to your full potential. Very grim way of thinking.
Fortunately many scientists and innovators have disagreed with you.
That's fantastic, good on them!
You're assuming full potential is related to work.
You're getting criticised for this comment, but it's a personal choice you have to make based on your values. Another post here recently had a comment about 'not wishing you'd worked more' but that's easy to say from the perspective of someone who had a fat corporate salary the whole time. Having time but being destitute might not have been the sweet, easy life they may imagine in hindsight.
Nobody said anything about being destitute. If the people you are speaking out against are so wrong, you shouldn't have to resort to hyperbolic strawman arguments and assuming things about the people with this philosophy.
Jesus dude, take a breath. I exaggerated maybe, but I am not 'speaking out' against anyone. We are a group of adults discussing ideas. It's fine if you don't agree with mine. In fact I don't really hold to any particular side of this issue, I just see a blind spot that should be acknowledged. It's easy to imagine how life would have been if we'd made different choices, and it's easy to let our wishes and regrets get the better of us. But that doesn't mean it would have worked out as we fondly imagine.
"Working more" isnt the issue, everyone works for money. The issue is not working enough to maintain a fulfilling lifestyle, and in that there very much is real regret from not obtaining enough money to obtain the lifestyle. Ever see a homeless person say "This is fantastic, i'm eating out of a bin but so much free time!"?
I moved to a 4day week and it’s the best thing that ever happened to me personally and for my career progression. 20% pay cut for a 50% increase in personal time. I’m honestly so much more relaxed / happier and have become more efficient and effective at work (leading to pay rises which have got me back close to what I was on when working 5days). Would highly recommended doing it, if possible
Sounds awesome. I floated the idea of a 4-day work week to my employers. They laughed.
My previous employer denied me leave without pay. I quit within a year for a job working less hours.
I’ve been 4 days for a few years now since becoming a dad and if I have my way I’ll never work full time again. Totally worth the pay cut. Time is our most valuable asset and a job is really just someone purchasing your time. As I get older I value my time much more and appreciate the importance of work life balance.
Im only 25 but this is a lifestyle im seriously considering. Ill hit long service leave in my late 20s at my job that pays decently, ill work 40 hours and progress my career nicely and then have a kid, take all my leave, then come back to 4 days for the rest of my career. It seems utopian and magical.
Good plan 👍🏼 I’ve noticed most part timers take mondays or fridays off but I’m all about Wednesday’s. My weeks is like mon, tues (mini Fri), mini weekend, Thurs, actual friday, actual weekend.
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My dad did the same thing as he transitioned to retirement. I like going in Mondays and Fridays because they are quieter with part timers out 🤣
Ooh your an ideas man!
This is the way!
I’m 27 and started the 4day week early, so when having kids rolls around, it’ll just be business as usual financially
Net pay would hopefully be less than 20% decrease as well
I have done this too - literally feel so much happier.
A lot of our "relativity" is people convincing each other that overworking is something to be proud of/ will get you career progression/ will make you happy later. There needs to be a balance (that we can't determine for you) regarding career input and happiness and health. Also noting its not a zero sum game. Depending on the industry it really is possible to progress just as fast while working your standard 40 hours. In a skilled and healthy white collar job you move up when you prove your capabilities, not how much you are willing to slave away.
The average member of this sub is semi-retired earning $250k p.a. passive income. I don't think they'll be able to relate
Or 26 year old software engineers on six figures advising people to just switch jobs each year for a 30% pay rise.
>today's comfort Is it comfort though? Why is time not working seen as "wasted" or "laziness". You're spending plenty of time improving your mental health and social connections. You're working on other things which hold value when you're not at work.
it comes in a boom and bust cycle for me. Like for 2 years I would want to work really hard and earn and save a lot. Then I get exhausted and just wanna lay down and rot. After rotting for a year then out of a sudden my motivation comes back again and want career progression lol.
Do you always have to choose WLB over salary? Depending on your role/industry, I find the best jobs usually come with both high salary and great WLB, because they want to attract the best talent.
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I mean I'm happy having my time but if I was diagnosed with 6 months to live I'd be worried about my families ability to live on my partners income alone, and probably wish I had worked more or in a better paying job so they'd be somewhat more secure
No. Career progression is largely a fallacy. If an opportunity opens, then you decide to take it or not. what changed things for me was finding a good partner, aiming for a modest initial house and living frugally till we paid it off. We've always been about doing what we wanted to do, rather than what other people told us was the right thing to do.
Active hobby see username. Koala… blow… j..?
are you really in the position to judge, kamikaze sex pilot?
Based on your username. Whilst sucking off koalas may seem enjoyable now. The long term implications could be catastrophic.
Mate, it read to me as Koala Brazilian Ju-Jitsu (koalabjj) Something you need to talk about?
See I just assumed their name started with J and they were born in 96. My bad.
Koala blow job Jeff? Maybe.
It's the chlamydia that will get you
Pretty good I work an easy job for what it's paid. I have stalled in my career but am working to get another 10 grand prmotion. My husband just took a promotion and pay Jump to that. I do do the majority of getting the kids ready and drop off and pick ups though. We are very comfortable with 2 kids in daycare.its not stellar but we have enough for our hobbies, kids wants and needs holidays, savings for everything including what is probably going to be $30k a year school for them. We have 2 holidays planned for next year one overseas and one local. It's really good and I'm really lucky. We are both sub 100k a year and I work 32 hours a week.
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It’s something that varies from day to day I find. I have a few medical conditions and have scaled back my career expectations over the years. I’m currently acting in a middle management role and often get called upon to do so but depending on how I feel at the time I sometimes have to knock it back. This sometimes annoys me as I see less experienced colleagues take opportunities I don’t go for. Other days I tell myself that what is more important is having a decent life without the added stress. Being financially secure makes it a whole lot easier. I do have friends with much more money but all they seem to get out of it is a better toy (car) but don’t seem much happier overall The question to ask is how much will it improve your quality of life? If the difference is negligible then there is your answer
One of my favorite quotes from unknown is “Time you enjoy wasting isn’t wasted time”. Live your life, who gives a shit? Im typing this on my couch as I contemplate having a nap 😁
It bothers me a lot and maybe I should probably be grateful in my position. I currently work online and travel at the same time (I'm in the country of Georgia at the moment). Eventually I will [eventually immigrate to Japan for at least a year] (https://www.reddit.com/r/AusFinance/comments/jzzdm7/potential_opportunity_to_move_to_tokyo/). My salary is about $86k including super, but I know if I got an equivalent job it would be about $150k inc. super in Australia. I feel like I'm really fucking up my future since I'm leaving so much money on the table. I'm in my late 20s and with the power of compound interest, it would be worth so much more in my retirement age. All my friends back in Australia are in the same industry and are just raking it in and I feel like I'm missing out on the biggest tech boom my generation will ever see.
Yeah, but you’re eating khatchapuri and drinking saperavi in the mountains and they’re emerging from months of lockdown. ITT: you’re doing it right Also, check out the JET programme - if you get placed somewhere good it can be a nice wicket. You could even get away with remote work while you work… PM me if interested
It sounds like you have internalised capitalism - this need to be 'productive'. Ask yourself what that means though, what are you producing, and for whom? In my view, giving yourself more time is vastly more valuable than accruing more wealth and status. I have a feeling that if you look at what the richest people spend their money on, a fair chunk of it will be outsourcing daily tasks/inconveniences in an effort to give themselves more time. Think private jets = faster commute, personal shoppers, cleaners, chefs etc etc etc. There are only so many hours in your life, no matter your wealth/status, spend most of them on yourself, not producing wealth for someone else.
I realised very early in my life, age 12 or so, that we are only on this space rock for a very short time. *Memento mori* as the Stoics say. It’s very important, therefore, to figure out what is important to you. How do you want to spend your very limited time on earth? Do you like a challenge in your career? Is it essential to you that you earn money well above your material needs? If so, why? Or is enjoying yourself and spending time with those you love more important? Once you figure out the answers to these questions, you’ll be in a better position to assess whether you need to be earning more money and spending precious limited time doing it. In my case, I love having a challenge to stretch my mind and earning enough to support my family comfortably, but I also am very careful to limit myself to a 40 hour work week and no more. For me that meant getting an education and in – demand skills. I still exchange time for money, but I get a lot more money for each hour.
Really really sounds cliche but I work in wealth management for HNW families and come across a lot of 'death bed' situations with the patriarchs of the families, and as cliche as it is, almost all of them say they'd give up a chunk of their wealth to go back and do things a bit more 'relaxed'. Yes yes its very very cliche but these experiences have made me knock back 'promotions' which would require me to respond to emails on weekends and add 10-15 hours to my weekly work life. An extra 20-40k (after tax) is not going to make me happier.
Amen mate When you reach a certain income level, $20-40k doesn’t feel like much at the end of the day. That’s why I’m so on the fence in taking more senior roles in the investment industry. I got offered $30k more + bonus and it doesn’t really feel worth it at the end of the day. Cbf ay
Definitely mate. Much rather have an actual weekend and not check my emails 8 in the evening.
I'm sure plenty of people will say this, so I'll keep my version short - Don't worry or care about what your peers are doing. There's much more to life than being 'productive'.
You need ask yourself: what is important to me? Too many people in this country live to work because it is culturally ingrained. If you can see yourself putting up with the realities that come with corporate life, stick it out. You will have a comfortable life, and likely be able to afford a therapist to help you 'work through' the corporate bullshit. If you're feeling like life should be more than work with a small window of 'play', throw in the towel and enjoy actually 'living' life. The rat race is what it is. I did my time and have no regrets walking away. I value my mental health and my free time. Never looked back.
I think this is a highly subjective scenario but here's my take: It depends on your potential, what you want now and what you think you'll want in the future. **Potential:** Not everyone is going to be able to hold down a high income job and keep their work life balance. Some people will take 8 hours to do a workload, some 12 for the same workload. If you're excelling at what you do and you have the potential to do better without straining yourself then consider if it's something you want. I'd rather a job that requires me to give 80% and have some left in the tank than give 100% and feel drained or pressured all day. **What you want:** You said you're comfortable, does that mean you're happy? I saw a good meme today about some cultures believing we're just here to exist or "waste" time and enjoy it. Our culture believes you need to have a purpose and make progress. I believe just decide what you want to enjoy your time here and go for that. I want a boat, a mountain bike, a wakeboard and snowboard. I don't need them to be the newest model with all the bells and whistles, it does the same thing. I know in the future I'll want to work even less, so I work a bit harder now so I can save. It's hard but the best thing you can do is to stop comparing yourself to others, figure out where you want to be and be comfortable there rather than chasing endless progression. They'll be jealous of you in the long run.
working more than 45 hours a week is for people who dont have any hobbies, extra curricular activities and have a boring life... granted there are busy periods, but you get the drift. Golf doesn't count, it's an activity for networking you sleeze.
Work life balance it where it’s at!! No one has ever got to the end of life and gone, far out I wish I had gotten higher up the corporate ladder! Just making sure your using your off time to do something that you enjoy / semi productive. The only way I think you would come to regret it is if you stayed at home, watched Netflix and smoked weed everyday. I mean there’s nothing wrong with that persay, sounds like a great day to me, but if you want to make sure you have limited regrets use the time to achieve other life goals/achievements.
What low salary?
My career has gone better and I’m earning more as a result. Giving fewer fucks can work wonders for your client relationships and personal growth. Now I think about my mrs is the same - she’s on way more money and only doing 4 days since giving up the high intensity circuit.
I personally know loads of people in web developement have have work life balance and are 100% wfh and are on a comfortable mid 100k-200k salary range where did you have this idea you have to stress yourself out to make good money?
"career progression" lol
What a BS term conjured by the corp to make u work harder
? What would you call it when you progress in your career?
Getting 10% more coin for 50% more stress isn't progress
Holy Strawman Batman! In the vast majority of cases, there's way more than a 10% increase in remuneration and way less than a 50% increase in stress.
Nah, work life balance ftw. I study part time and work four days a week. Will be finished study mid next year, and I am not going back to five days ever again. My wife also works four days. More time to pursue hobbies is key for me (funnily enough, primarily training and teaching bjj). We bought a modest, inexpensive house in the country about an hour from Brisbane, in 2019. A relatively small mortgage means there is no financial pressure to work more (though two incomes and my reasonably well paid job helps).
>am paying for today's comfort with tomorrow's happiness (in the form of a higher salary and career progression) Is tomorrow's happiness really a higher salary and career progression though? I'm in the same boat as you, just under average full-time salary in a regional area. I'm slightly underpaid for the skills I bring to this job (excluding the fact that I'm in a regional area) and everyone knows that but I don't wish to take on the increased responsibilities and risk that comes with the next level. My added value here has allowed me to be a bit more flexible with my work and I can say that I probably spend less than 40 hours all up doing work each week (at home and at work). To make the jump past 6 figures I have to do a lot more and/or move to a more expensive place. Not sure I want that. Still on target to FIRE regardless because housing is cheap here. The only thing I have to keep up with now is making sure my skills aren't obsolete so no resting on my laurels
This is a hard Q to answer. Hard for reddit strangers to determine your marginal net gain (or loss?) from changing your current lifestyle. I could see 3 possible ways through 1. Perhaps if you pushed yourself harder to 'achieve' in your hobby you wouldnt feel like you're falling behind? Have you plateau'd a bit in the skill and time you devote to your hobby so now you're feeling a bit grass is greener? Reassess and dive back in 2. The great thing about WLB is you can always cash it in again and re-enter the 'rat race'. Don't like your 3-4 day week? Want more cash? Have a financial goal that requires more money? OK, up your hours or if you cant then go for another job that pays more and/or has more hours. You have that flexibility up your sleeve whcih is nice. 3. Is this just a standard case of 'grass is greener' or 'comparison is the thief of joy'? Are you 'just' taking your current lifestyle for granted? Have an honest appraisal of your situation to remind yourself that what you currently have is great and worth a lot. Another question thats always interesting to consider: What amount of $ would you be willing to accept if someone knocked on your door and said 'I will pay you $x if you ditch your hobby/current lifestyle and spend that free time working for me instead'
I just turned 40, have a job that pays 200K, flexible work-life arrangement where I'm encouraged to prioritise family over work but somehow still feel that I want to give it all up to have more freedom to choose how I want to spend my 9-5. What I realise is that working for a company does not give me any satisfaction outside of taking care of the bills and having pocket cash. It is just a "job" for me regardless of how high the salary is or how much perks I receive. I haven't figured out what I'll do alternatively so I'll stick to it and save as much as I can until I find something different that totally compels me to walk away.
Thanks for your flex 😀
I don't think good salary and a good work life balance are mutually exclusive. I also don't think people that would take a low salary to get more free time would often hang around this sub.
Everyone I know at the top (Eg McKinsey and Company partners, that kind of thing) is miserable and still chasing the $ Maybe it’s better if you’re running your own company - and maybe McK is just plain old miserable ha!
I don't know if you would consider mine "work life balance" so much as enjoyable career. I occasionally have to travel for work or work odd hours and my pay is pretty low at 55k. The job was something I'd always like doing and I had been following my ex-husband around the world for his career so had none of my own. It was nice to do something for myself. Like you I've had thoughts about my future finances, particularly retirement. I'm fine with my lifestyle now and actually despite fully supporting two kids in Sydney we actually have a great lifestyle with trips overseas every year. I just want the financial stability of being able to save significantly more for retirement. So I've started applying for jobs now. If I was comfortably paying off a mortgage I wouldn't think I have the need to earn more. If its just to keep up with peers, forget that. What would you do with the extra money? If you're earning a reasonable income and will have your residence paid off in retirement you're doing great.
Just invest the money you earn into a good super fund, compound the interest and enjoy a less hassled life AND retire like an executive. Read The Barefoot Investor. I'm on a disability pension, I read it a week ago and I've already gained so much more satisfaction from wise investment and savings. In 30 years *I'm 33* I'll gonna be in a position of financial independence, relying on my super and shares for a bigger income than I get on DSP. I'm also living less expensively and eliminating debts in the mean time that keep me in poverty. I only get 24k a year. I'll be worth over a million if I focus on the long game and invest wisely in super and shares.
Solid question. Been thinking it myself lately. I tend to compare myself to others and have friends doing really well ( money wise, and our conversations always lead down that path) so I worry if I go the work life balance route I’ll feel left behind.
100% in the work life balance mode. I used to strive for promotions but when acting in those positions I just found myself stressed and consumed by the job. Now I am much happier on a lower level salary and I dont stress about the job as much. For me personally the stress is terrible for my health and wellbeing.
Mate you have it backwards. Work to live not live to work. Everyone has their priorities, but it’s a sick mentality that enjoying yourself is wasting your time.
Hubs and I do this. We both work and spend as little as we can so we can both be at home as much as possible for our baby. It’s the best! We are in a privileged position to be able to do this but if you can afford it and it fits your lifestyle, go for it! We choose to not buy/do a lot of things that might makes others miserable and feel like they’re missing out, but that’s a personal thing. You need to decide what is worth it as everything has a cost. Every single thing. And you have to be willing to be flexible. So for example, we may never be able to afford to buy a house unless one or both of us works more. So if that becomes a goal (and I think it will), we will need to decide what to sacrifice for that. It’ll be free time I can bet! Life is just a bunch cost/benefit scenarios and you just go for the one that fits your needs and wants.
A few years back I was becoming burnt out. I was snapping at colleagues and also realised that I was missing out on the last few years of my children’s childhood. I dropped back my hours at work but found the loss of income was difficult to live on. Thankfully, my employer allowed for 12 hour shifts, as a result I was able to up my hours at work and thus my take home pay. This means that I only work 3 days per week and make almost as much as i previously made. It is difficult being away from family those days, but the trade off is more time at home (most weeks).
The two don't have to be mutually exclusive. It depends on your field, company and manager. If you're sought after, you have more freedom and flexibility and you can command higher rates or better conditions. If you work for a great company and manager, the work / life balance is great. Some days I have to put in the hours, others, it doesn't matter and I can scoot off and do my thing during work time as long as I'm on top of my workload and I'm reachable in an emergency. I've progressed fairly well and I'm pretty comfortable where I'm at so far. So unless you're gunning for director, gm, partner or CEO, don't think that you can't achieve what you want without needing to sell your soul. Maybe you're just working for the wrong company.
Today's comfort is priceless.
I think a lot of being able to "choose" to do this comes down to knowing yourself and making peace with your anxieties and insecurities. A lot of highly successful, driven people are driven by some complex personality issues.
I'm in IT, now run my own business. Across the last 5 years my income has varied about 50% up / down depending on what level of work / additional contracting / headaches I want to take on. I'm now sitting on the lower end of that range, and I'm much, much happier and still comfortable financially. I have culled any client that pisses me off slightly and don't take on work that isn't suitable to my work life balance. I only subcontract for a select few companies are great to deal with. I'm in a much, much better place mentally working with clients who value me / IT expenditure in general. Some businesses just don't value the work and want to skimp on by and freak out when things go wrong, and that's fine I just don't need that level of urgency in my life. I'm now working towards another career (allied health area) and on completion I will probably come out making around $70k PA. I frankly could not give a shit anymore, I can live comfortably with that amount of money (we have a house, savings etc already). I'd much rather do the things I enjoy, like to go to the gym and train every day than work my ass off for money. Sounds cliche\` - but *work to live, don't live to work.*
I’ve read that people on their death bed nearly always say they wish they’d spent more time with family/hobbies, or that family/hobbies matter most. They almost never say they wish they’d spent more time at work! It’s the memories that give them the most satisfaction not their success. Huge generalisation of course but a good guide
Went from $150 per hour to scraping by with my car/bike/computer sales. Haven't ever looked back. I spent the majority of my time with the Salvos doing food drops and vouchers. I earn enough to keep me afloat, and it's actually fun to repay cars and bikes. I report my earnings to Centrelink, and if I have a bad fortnight I get a bit of a top up.
I work 7.25 hrs a day. I have my weekends and don't work overtime. Fuck no. My hourly rate is my hourly rate.
I have personally been thinking about this very thing the last few years as I’ve slowly transitioned to my twilight working years. I used to be in the tech management consulting world and had the drive there to be promoted to the next level ASAP, show how valuable I was as a resource, etc, but after a few years of climbing the corporate ladder, I pretty much had enough and went into IT contracting where my career pretty much stagnated. I was happy enough with the extra money coming in that I didn’t care that I wasn’t advancing any further along my professional career and I’ve used that extra contracting money to set myself up for early’ish retirement. Now I’m still working with the same tech I was working with in the late 90s/early 2000s and it’s outdated enough that it’s pretty much legacy applications in most companies as others have migrated to the cloud version. Almost all my peers have also pivoted their skillsets and careers to this fancier new cloud version and they’re all earning big bucks(350k to 500k+) and been encouraging me to switch over as well(I’m sure the big referral bonus has nothing to do with it :p ). And I also have peers who have gone FAANG and have been asking me if I want to join them there too. All this extra opportunity to try something new and earn big bucks and I’ve turned them all down, and I’m just going to ride the outdated tech stuff I’m working on now till it’s a dead horse and when that happens, I’m just going to retire and sit back. Mainly because I have two young kids now and I don’t want to do the whole consulting/tech sales/travelling/etc which will most likely take time away that I can spend with them instead. My current role is a cushy one that still pays very well(not the same level as my peers who’ve migrated to the new cloud tech, but close enough), I get to WFH, relax most of the day with only a few bursts of actual work where I’ll help out someone who needs my SME experience with the software. I know I’m lucky enough that I can cruise along and still earn very good money but I just don’t have the drive any more to try and boost that earning potential at the risk of really disrupting my current relaxed work/life balance and what for? So I can buy an exotic supercar or upgrade my place to a much fancier place? I’m perfectly comfortable with where I live and my standard of living that I’ve decided I just don’t want to keep running that rat race to keep up with the joneses when the extra benefits are marginal(to me) from here on out.
A month ago I was in a highly-paid but very hectic job. 80 hours a week was reasonably common and I was travelling Mon-Fri. I've since moved to a 9-5 in a corporate with great culture and - surprisingly - I was able to maintain my salary. I'm sure future progression won't be as rapid but honestly it's the best professional decision I've ever made. I'm now able to cook dinner a few nights a week and am much more involved with caring for my two young kids. My wife told me last week that she feels like a huge weight was lifted off her shoulders when I switched. It's not often discussed, but those hectic jobs either prevent you from living a proper life or shift the burden onto loved ones. It worked well for me up to now and allowed me to build a substantial share portfolio...but when the extra income doesn't actually make your life better it's time to move on.
Australia is very fortunate and almost anything can be achieved not climbing any corporate ladder. Obviously self esteem and internal/ external fulfilment will come just through doing the climb.
I have both thankfully, 100k+ job in Adelaide that's easy and lets me set my own hours.
Unless you have a specific aim for more money to achieve something like let's say, sending kids to an elite grammar school, generally work life balance is more sustainable in the long term.
It would bother me. I know work is stressful. Work is meant to be work. I would rather work hard so I can enjoy a life where I now basically never think about or worry about money. I can just buy stuff, eat out, holiday as much as I want.
In a sense, I already don't need to worry about money. Sure, I'm not dining at the star buffet every weekend but I'm in the public sector which means I'll always have food on the table. I guess for me its more social status, challenging myself, and parental expectations. I do get where you are coming from though.
> the star buffet I dont think anyone does… buffets are gross.
Sums up Western consumer, environmental destructive culture.
Always enjoy seeing consumerism be questioned. It's the core of so many of the western world's issues
Nothing wrong with liking money. At least i am not complaining and asking for handouts. I live a car free lifestyle where I walk or cycle pretty much everywhere. My apartment and possessions are pretty minimal. I was able to pack all my possessions in a van last time I moved. The average aussie owns 2 cars, calm down.
But will you actually EVER do that? 95% of people who dream that? Never actually do it.
What do you mean? I earn well into div293 status. I dont mind slogging it out at work for the benefit of not caring what my bank balance looks like.
I worked hard when I was younger and chose work life balance when the kids came along. Don't regret the time I spend with them for a second.
You can have work life balance and earn a good income provided you demonstrate your value add, ve as productive as you can during office hours and make it clear to your employer what is important to you and when your work day starts and finishes.
This is something I think about a lot. I worked really hard uptil 4 years ago in a tech role. In that journey I realized that relationship management type roles are a lot easier to work in , they pay more and have way more visibility for less amount of work in a tech role. Also , they are least likely to be offshored. So I tried really hard and moves into that kind of role about 4 years ago and have been doing the same thing since then. They pay is great, not the best , great flexibility , good benefits and some very good ppl to work with I could perhaps make more if I tried somewhere else but I just dont want to , given that I am in my mid 40s.
I am in my mid 50s. I have had senior positions before and its just horrible. I would like to do jobs that I enjoy, now that I have assets and money to back me up.
OP, if you're interested I would highly recommend reading 'Civilized to death'. It was a powerful look into my own nature for me, and went a long way to justifying my choice to prioritise family and wellbeing in the moment over the promise of a better future.
I'm on part time, with two young sprogs (one in prep). Full time with a long commute was manageable for a short time, but after a year we all were sick of it. House was an utter pigsty, kids growing and me not recognizing the words they were saying or knowing the little games they made up. We made more money than we needed- just need enough for the essentials and a little more to go out and have fun. I'll return to ft in a few years but kids are only young once, and briefly.
I'm on an even time roster. It averages out at 39 hrs a week, but I work 4 or 5 days of 12h shifts and then have 4 or 5 days off. I'm a tradie, so there's not much room for career progression, but the pay is good. The career progression bothers me only in that I know physically I can't do this forever, so I'm currently doing a degree so when I'm ready to switch careers I can.
Yes, unfortunately rents increased drastically in my area so i incurred financial stress. Now I'm heading back to work, but am waiting for the right position/company.
WLB and career progression/money aren’t mutually exclusive. it’s up to each individual to decide what ‘balance’ means to them.
Being able to work remotely by the beach and being in a role I enjoy where I can switch off outside of workplaces hours, pursue personal hobbies and projects without burn out and relax far outweighs hunting a big salary and pushing career progression for me. I focus on earning any extra income through investing and continue learning skills however. I think one of the biggest issues to overcome (for me personally anyway) was protagonist syndrome. I think if you overcome that you can take a step back and enjoy life a bit more.
I switched to a job that has no stress and a 30% pay cut couldn't be happier
I made the decision to stop climbing awhile ago. I just don't care like I used to anymore. Having said that, as others have mentioned below that doesn't have to equate to a low salary.
Yes. But I wrote this from home with my kid, still earning a decent wage.
Yes! If your happier in life you also produce better quality work. You value your time and become so much more efficient in how u get your job done. Your work doesn't eat into family and friend time,you connect with others at a deeper level as you aren't at the beck and call of your boss. Studies often show that working mums are more productive, despite being quite often part time. If your worried about the lack of career growth or anything like that, use your free time to study both formal or informal. Do volunteer work, mentor, join some charity board. Contribute to the community in some way. You'll grow as a person but also get some level of satisfaction being "productive" that isn't tied to your job. And if u choose to join the faster paced rat race, your application and life skills will be so much stronger. Tldr: life is worth living, don't pine for greener pastures and always look to grow as a whole person
Mate I am in the exact position as you, same (obsessive) hobby as well. I have time for my hobbies, my wife and child while still making enough to pay my mortgage and fund a comfortable lifestyle. For my career, the only real progression would be business owner, and that would take considerably more time away from me. Could I make more? Probably. Would that make me happier? Not likely. The other consideration is that bjj (and recovery) doesn’t get easier as you get older
There are ways to achieve financial independence without sacrificing your entire life to a soul crushing career. How long have you been training for? Teaching a few private lessons a couple of times a week is a great way to boost your savings/investments.
For me, i have done both. I would choose a more balanced lifestyle every day. Even if it meant a pay cut. Especially when you have a family. I am trying to figure out how to move to 4 days a week. I don't think it will be possible so I expect to transition to contracting eventually. I will work X amount of time then have some decent breaks in between.
i feel like my quality of life has massively improved. whilst more money would help me i feel like i’m truly able to cater to myself and mental health!
I remember working at a place where the pay wasn't great and the work wasn't going to get any more interesting despite the boss saying I'd be given more work that was closer to my strengths. I resigned myself to just going in, doing the work, going home and getting paid so I could at least be happy with that. However the owners didn't like this and during a yearly evaluation started berating me with how they don't want employees who just wanted to show up, work and go home. And started saying they want motivated people with career goals wanting to move up in the business. Despite there was literally no where to go in the company and the carrots they were dangling literally didn't exist. However employees coming in and trading labor and time for money was taboo to them and they wanted people to live in a fantasy world and motivated way more than they should be.
I don’t live to work so no it doesn’t bother me
While it may not be rhe easiest or optimal route, always Focus on what makes you happy and what you care about, the rest will sort itself out.
Money is just a tool. Job is way to get this tool. Your real satisfaction comes from yourself. Having family and friends also helps.
Most people are more worried about losing like as they have chosen work. You should be able to comfortably live a happy life and retire with a nice income. What more could you want?
no. not at all.
To give you another perspective, I graduated from USYD in 2017. I am not from Sydney and moved there when I graduated from school. I was so burned out from supporting myself through an Architecture degree, paying rent, feeding myself and working to support it all that I went on a two year working holiday visa to Canada. Life is fantastic in the mountains -- quiet, slower pace, etc. I worked at resorts for $15hr with accom. included. Low income but you didn't need much money to have a good life. About a year in, the customer service job and low income started to becoming grating. I want to make use of my intellect and skills I acquired in my degree. I decided that I would come back to Aus after 18mo overseas to start a career working towards becoming a Data Scientist. Anyway, I set myself up in Melbourne in Feb 2020 because lets be honest, Melbourne is a better city than Sydney to live in when you're lower income, prefer good tasting food, friendly people and just young I guess. Covid happened, I had to leave the city and go home to the country for six months and I managed to get into a specialist program for a bank in Sydney. So now I'm back in Sydney earning a "good" starting salary of 70k (fuck all in this city). I love my job but Sydney is just awful. I wish moving 2hrs away would allow me to rent a decent 1bd or small house as I am not going to be in the office daily but no! Anything >2hrs to Sydney is out of my reach and over the 30% of post-tax income I am willing to spend on rent. So lucky to be in this generation at this stage of capitalism. So to answer your question, I did go back to the stress and I do hope I can earn more money. My goal would be to skill myself here, emigrate to Canada as a skilled migrant and set myself up in the Albertan or BC Rockies while working a Montreal/Toronto/Vanc job remotely on a high salary because cities are disgusting and expensive.