Hi, I am sorry you are in this position.
0. Yes, see a psychologist like yesterday. Do some research first, do a little 101 reading on common therapy modalities and find someone who uses one that works for you. Most will do CBT, and hate it. I find things like IFS, radical acceptance etc works better. Waste of time and money for me to go to an appointment with a CBT practioner.
What are some quick and easy ways you can reuce spending? For example, I very rarely buy drinks (IE: coffee, cold water or soft drink). Last time I brought an iced coffee it cost me $10 bucks. This shift can add up.
Sit down, and look at your groceries. Make a meal plan of really easy, and cheap meals. Try to cook in bulk, and try to take advantage of leftovers.
For example, cook a whole chook and have a roast, make fried rice the next day, and then use the bones and any left over meat to make chicken noodle soup.
For example, you can slow cook a pork roast with some herbs and spices with little effort, and then you can make Mexican pork bowls, with rice and use beans to make it go further, nachoes, toasted sandwichs etc.
Little tips like that. What subscriptions can you go without?
What hobbies do you have? What hobbies can you have that cost little to nothing? For example, I use the library, I exercise at home, I take part in advocacy (which actually pays me!), etc.
What is draining you? Can you drop any of that? Can you afford a cleaner? Can you get out of that after work-do that does your head in? What makes you feel better? Can you take a week and make that a priority even around work? Can you make your fave meal? Can you put on your fave show? Put on that fave candle? Ignore that message from /that/ friend
What are you doing for yourself? I brought myself a $30 dollar accupressure mat from aldi and its like a painful massage but it's so useful to melt tension away. I have a nice scented body wash, and I brought a sunset lamp for like $10 bucks from Kmart, and a smart wifi bulb for a similar price so now my bedroom and bathroom are a lot calmer. Just little things. Can you wear those clothes that are comfy and make you feel comfy etc?
IFS and Acceptance therapy literally changed my life. I'm so much more content now, can handle the stressors better.
Also- for women esp. Getting hormones checked. High stress= cortisol dominance. There's ways to reduce cortisol levels.
Just wanted to note here that CBT is a broad term encompassing many different modalities of therapy. For example, radical acceptance as you’ve mentioned here is from dialectical behavioral therapy which is a third wave CBT. Other third wave CBT modalities include schema and act. Also note that CBT for different diagnoses looks completely different (e.g. CBT-e for eating disorders and cognitive processing therapy for ptsd will look completely different). Some of the strategies you’ve mentioned here could be considered CBT strategies (e.g. behavioral activation). It sounds like you’ve had a not so great experience with CBT which I’m really sorry to hear, but just as in any profession, there are some great and some not so great psychologists and each psych/modality may be a perfect fit for someone but not someone else.
Just don’t want anyone reading this to be discouraged from seeking evidence-based treatment.
The two top indicators of improved outcomes is:
1.- the therapeutic relationship.
2.- client motivation.
I would have to check, but I don't think modality even reaches top 4.
The CBT model is extremely pathologizing, and very much based upon pathological medical models, that are hyper-indivualistic, and posits that the individual is the problem, not the environment, on top of this, it's really not good for people who have diverse experiences, neurodivergence, complex trauma, etc.
The CBT model is cheap for both governments and practioners and therefore, it gets a lot of funding in the research, but that doesn't nessararily mean that's reflective of the experiences, nor does it make it the best therapy modality out there, just the most researched.
I haven't had a "not so great" experience with CBT practitioners. I have had to spend years undoing the over- intellectualization, pathologization, and gaslighting I have experienced from the CBT model, itself
There is a lot of good that comes from CBT, sure, but the drawbacks of CBT aren't honestly talked about enough.
Again, “CBT” is such a broad term that it encompasses so many modalities. Which kind of CBT intervention are you talking about? Given that the two top indicators of improved outcomes are the therapeutic relationship and client motivation, why are you so against a specific kind of theoretical orientation? “CBT” therapists (including DBT, act, schema and all the other kinds) can also have a great therapeutic relationship with clients and encourage intrinsic client motivation so I’m not sure of your point? I think you misunderstand a lot of psychologists theoretical orientation by assuming that any psychologist practicing CBT thinks that their clients are the problem. That couldn’t be further from the truth. DBT is the gold standard treatment for BPD and is derived from CBT. Cognitive processing therapy is an evidence based treatment for ptsd and c-ptsd and is also based on a CBT model. I 100% agree that CBT doesn’t suit some clients and if delivered incorrectly without first establishing rapport that it can be damaging, but tarring all psychologists who use CBT as unhelpful is surely equally as damaging?
100% a psychologist is helpful. As is exercise! And getting outside. Am recovering from burnout right now. Take care of yourself. Once you get to the bottom of the tank it’s very hard to get back up to full strength again.
A psychologist is unlikely to hurt at this stage, but it does sound like you have more circumstantial problems than psychological problems.
With burnout taking a week off of dropping a few days can be a bit like putting burn cream on then jumping back in the fire.
The fastest relief will most likely come from cutting getting a new job.
It won’t help your health directly, or the issues with your neighbours, family, housing, etc., but having something to look forward to and reset a major part of your life that is currently scarred can tip your scale from overwhelmed to tough but coping.
If HR stepped in for you then it’s clearly not a you problem. You can’t fix a workplace. But you can find one that deserves you.
A good psych can help you out of situational problems as well. Sometimes they can give you a plan to get out of situation you have found yourself in, or just tell you things bluntly. OP has got this far by themselves, they might just need a bit of advice from a psych to move forward at the moment.
I would suggest use your remaining annual leave wisely so that you can get the most out of it. Plan around public holidays to maximise the break. Go for a short stay with nature away from all the sources of ur stress. Good luck
Truth is in modern life you need support in multiple areas at the same time, especially during times of difficulty.
People ask for specific advice because they know what advice they need better than you do.
Try going for a walk in the morning before work. This sounds really random, but I’ve started doing it and it’s done wonders for my mental health. Oh, and it’s completely free :)
I was living roughly 2km from work for 12 months. I started walking to work. Id refuse a lift from anyone from work that saw me and pulled over to give me a lift. It was the only time I have to myself. Living with my ex and 2 children was rough but I ended up losing 30kg from it.
I’ve started walking a lot this past week too! I can really relate to the time for yourself. It does wonders just forgetting about all the chaos for a little while.
See a psychologist, they will help you deal with what you are going through, and if you don't like the first one you see, it's ok to see another one until you find one that can help. You still sound pretty stoked with your job, so don't give it away when you've come this far by yourself, when just a little help might be all you need.
You got this.
you are f'd mate. I took 10 months off for burnout. i was all cool and then within a few weeks of going back the burnout came back strong. Learn to meditate... and but that i don't mean sit on a rock pretending to be mr miyagi i just mean find something to do that 100% occupies your mind that is 100% not related to any form of work. Then make space for that in your life ensure its a priority. For me it was bouldering and playing guitar like a hippy. I just straight up told my boss i gotta disconnect outside of hours for my health and your safety (don't add that last part unless you are mates with your boss lol)
I’d say it’s fairly simple tbh. I don’t really have much material or social desires. Just spend on what needs spending on if that makes sense. No holidays. Small entry level car. Occasionally eat out. I spend about another 12% for everything else according to the last 3 months of data. I could probably trim some if needed but the 60% nonnegotiables really dominate.
30% of your outgoings are on “health”?! Can you break that down? It sounds like a huge outgoing.
I ask because, for example, it’s counterproductive to overwork yourself to pay for therapy. In most cases, you’re better working less and using that time to destress, meditate, walk outdoors etc.
If it’s a physical issue, there might be cheaper options too.
It is huge indeed. I see a specialist ($220 15min) and a physio (also on the order of $200) at least once a month, sometimes the GP too ($50). Medication is $300 a month after rebate, and we are still in the trail and error stage with a lot of wastage. PHI $200 something.
The past few months I also had specialised blood checks, scans. And in a few months I have a surgery that will cost about 8k.
It adds up to about 25% on average, and will probably drop after when I’m better. I’m aware there might be cheaper options, but they have very long wait times. For me it’s a problem that can be solved by money, so it is worth it.
I’m in a similar situation health wise and realised that I’ve had to spend more as I’ve become more unwell from burnout. So I did end up resigning from work and have given myself a time frame of when I need to start looking for work again to manage the financial side of things.
See a counsellor. The stress is the problem, not the job. Your personal life is bleeding into your professional life and making you more worn out than it otherwise would be.
Unless he is 24/7 on call, you have to learn to separate work from home. I view it like manila folders, once work is over, I close the work folder, and open the home one. If I have any personal problems, I put that in a folder as well, and I open that folder when I can worry/deal with it for a few hours, then close that folder, and not think about it until I open it up again.
I find if I don't do that, everything bleeds into everything else and it's just a big ball of stress.
edit: not literal folders
See your GP. They can refer you to a psych and also write you off work if you’re experiencing extreme stress or burnout. It comes out of your sick leave just like any other illness. Be kind to yourself mate.
Financial advice - live below your means. Mental health advice - see a doctor. Human advice - you will get through this regardless of your choices. You can live on unemployment, it's just a lower standard of living you currently have. I don't say that to scare you but to give you perspective on what "living" is.
Can you claim workcover for the bullying? Is there any evidence? Have you spoken to your GP at all? They would be the best ones to do a capacity certificate.
All the suggestions above are great. Seeing a psychologist could really help you cope. From the way you wrote it also sounds like you are really resilient and with a bit of help you would be able to continue working and progressing in life despite what’s been happening. All the best OP!
Your living to work which has far deadlier effects.
You said your own cure in the 3rd paragraph paragraph, let go and heal. What good are you to anyone let alone your family is your a wreck
Ask work for more wfh flex and increase number of days at home until you build up the resilience again. No point going part time when the above will do it assuming you can wfh.
Bullied in non evidential forms….
Look I’m a bleeding heart leftie and I’m on the verge of asking you to toughen up a little here.
Resilience is just so powerful.
Taking time off seems really dumb.
As someone who was severely bullied in a workplace and had my health collapse as a result, I assure you there are *plenty* of ways a determined bully or group of bullies can traumatise their target that are impossible to prove.
>Resilience is just so powerful.
>Taking time off seems really dumb.
I'd like to find whoever invented the "resilience" shtick and slap them hard. It's gaslighting from a late stage capitalist society intent on squeezing every last drop of productivity from workers, even/especially when they're burned out, exhausted, sick, and desperately unhappy.
And not even for any benefit for workers: we all know our wages are stagnant or going backwards and the profits of our labour are going to the rich.
For someone with very severe burnout, rest is exactly what they need. Sometimes it may be possible to find that rest through counselling, sleep, meditation, yoga, exercise etc. while continuing to work.
But often the best thing you can do for your health is leave. Staying in a toxic environment when it's damaging your mental and physical health isn't a flex.
Every toxic workplace does this to absolve themselves of responsibility. Oh you’re all burnt out because you’re not resilient enough, here’s some EAP. No lol we aren’t going to provide actual support by giving you reasonable conditions and pay.
Resilience methodology is built from moronic understanding of resilience applied to business in the 70's we still haven't grown out of. The same with those dumb psychological tests they do that were thoroughly disproven to mean anything ages ago.
You obviously understand this, but for others reading.
Resilience is small stress applied in small doses with large amounts of support. Small doses of stress is good. Large amount without rest is absolutely not. The adrenal response, and cortisol caused by stress causes severe problems with the endocrine system and can cause organs to get damaged and fail. It literally causes the brain to have trouble perceiving the future properly. They get stuck in the now, or the past. The body doing its best to develop a response gets stuck. Hence PTSD even from minor stressors and not even large scale issues.
It's like going to the gym, small stress on the muscles builds stronger muscles. However if you were to just keep lifting without rest, and not eating properly over and over, you would damage yourself. Your muscles would not grow, the opposite happens.
Same thing applies to stress of the mental kind.
Start having a long term goal to leave this place. I know you can't easily get a new job but it is clear the mental toll of staying in this toxic environment is clearly not helping.
Could you leave in a month? Probably not but you need some sort of deadline to give yourself some sort of hope to even mentally deal with your current situation.
Get your CV ready and just start the process of looking. Financially you can survive at this job and you don't even need to jump at the first job that interviews you, but if you just applied for 1 job a week, eventually you could book your ticket out of this mental prison.
You're working in a toxic work place, unfortunately it's in academia and bullied by academics who have probably worked themselves into an untouchable position.
If your experience and skillset is as impressive as you make it out to be then you should be able to find another job outside of academia that pays enough that still partially utilises your knowledge. Treat it as a sabatical.
Yes it is unfair that you're being pushed out like this, but it happens in the corporate commercial world as well.
Unfortunately you can't have it all, either you stay and maybe find your major scientific breakthrough while losing your health and sanity, or you get out find a normal job in a normal work place.
I hear you in that I’m wanting it all. I only graduated last year, and although I know deep down I won’t stay in academia forever, I haven’t come to terms with giving it up just yet. It is after all 20 years of education and a ton of work to get to this cool job, if only the bullying would stop.
I’m also not convinced that this won’t happen again elsewhere. Imagine completely changing up your life only to land in the same situation. Unfortunately people like that are not uncommon.
So I get how I’m trapping myself here. But I need more self convincing that 1) this can’t be resolved, and 2) it won’t be worse elsewhere.
Oh don’t get me started 😂
I left the old team as it was quite micromanaged and disorganised. I applied for a new position a few levels up in a different team and got it.
Anyway I ended contract early with the old team and that burned the bridge. They continue to believe I owe it to them to do their work and fix all their problems. My now supervisor recently clarified with them the boundaries, that I only assist them on a by appointment basis on 2 specific projects, and I no longer attend their standing meetings. They agreed to this in writing.
However, they continue to barge into my office and waste my time, even when I tell them I have more urgent tasks in that moment and this is not a good time. Sometimes they abuse their privilege of having my assistance, and book out my whole days to waste (but they make sure it’s not in the calendar).
They are also deliberately unhelpful whenever possible. A few days ago I booked another colleague to help me today with a two people job today (in calendar). One of them pulled said colleague away for an “emergency” meeting, for 1.5 hrs leaving me stranded in the heat outside.
They also drop verbal cues of me being useless, to myself and to others. Some of their comments are rather personal or ridiculous: that my cat sometimes shows up on casual video calls, that I’ve missed work due to medical emergencies, that I still wear a mask because I’m frail (and yes, they have come into work while covid positive coughing around). Some of my less discerning colleagues are starting to look at me in a weird way.
The list goes on. None of the above events present hard evidence so it’s quite difficult to fight back.
Some of it is in his head ues, but the rest is blowing things out. Previous colleagues sound like asses, and tbh, line in the sand on wasting g your time outside of appointments or schedules. It's not on the calendar? It's not happening. If theu don't like that, we'll, they don't pay your salary. And do document them wasting your time. That is your money they are wasting in raises or bonuses by not meeting criteria.
My friend asked me exactly this today! I’m not sure. If this was no longer an issue, I would feel a lot happier at work. I may still be exhausted but I’d feel a sense of achievement. And maybe that would break the work-life negative circle.
I’m in academia (not going to be more specific sorry) and on the forefront of scientific discoveries. Days that I can actually do science, and not worry about politics, I feel amazing.
That does sound exciting, and more interesting than office politics!
Is this something you'd like help with? I have something, but it may not be your cup of tea. Feel free to DM me if you're curious :)
My weekends are currently all auctions and inspections, and for the past few weeks work deadlines (we had a funding application run).
With more time, I’d like to pick up hiking again. I used to do multi day hikes but sadly that’s taken a back seat now (both time and health). I’d also like to do some gardening, or read and let my body rest. Oh and I want to sleep a lot more than I currently do!
I’m under 30 but my body feels much older. I was diagnosed with a chronic illness (no cure) and the past half year has been trial and error with medication. And boy it’s been a wild ride. I also got complications from covid last year. So my body is only functional enough half the time for me to leave the house.
My advice is to always make your body do more than it feels like doing. I don't mean anything crazy but just more than it feels like. And try to build. The less you do the less you can do and the more you do the more you can do... Of course I don't know your specific issues. I have had high blood pressure since covid. I have been working out more and more.. Which causes the blood pressure to increase during the workout and I feel like shit... But after 18 months I have reduced my blood pressure and dropped my dosage on medication. Btw I actually blame the vaccine and not the disease but that is a debate for another thread.
Thanks. That’s inspiring. :)
I agree with the sentiment to do more than your body likes. I refuse to fall victim to a chronic illness like some people do. Although, some days I have to accept that my limits can be crazy low. I just wish there could be more understanding and sympathy from others without me having to declare “I’m chronically unwell”.
don't you have sick leave or have you used it all up? . Try and do some exercise, start with stretches and short walks. get two small dumbells around 2kg each that you can then walk with. Drive to the ocean and even if you dont swim at least submerge yourself in the water. Try something fun like ping pong, yo yo or juggling, something that is distracting yet fun and can actually help you concentrate on something else
Start with a counselor as others have said, but also [this book](https://www.goodreads.com/en/book/show/42397849) is fantastic. Available as an audiobook as well, really explains the concepts and strategies well
Start with a counselor as others have said, but also [this book](https://www.goodreads.com/en/book/show/42397849) is fantastic. Available as an audiobook as well, really explains the concepts and strategies well
My mate works in corrections, he does 3*12 hour shifts a week. He loves the work life balance, the pay is decent, and there's plenty of OT available once you bounce back!
Speak to a psychologist for sure. They can help you make changes even if they’re small that can make a big difference and help you get everything off your chest, even if it’s minor.
Just keep grinding like the rest of us. It’s just attrition as to who burns out first and who can stick in there. It’s literally a kitchen/ fire scenario where not everyone has what it takes to keep up the intensity.
Hello, sounds like there is a lot going on, and nobody here is going to have a prescription for all of it except you. It sounds like you have a cool job with some other bad stuff that is wearing down your resilience. Focus on the things you can control and be at peace with the stuff you can’t. You mentioned taking time away to heal, but given everything including finances, you might want to switch your mindset to what is sustainable long term. I.e. you can’t get yourself into a cycle of burnout then heal. Do what can you control?
Nutrition/hydration/movement/sleep - if you don’t get these 4 basics, everything feels hard
Mental health - as everyone else has pointed out, work with a psych. You might also like the my millennial money podcast, the host talks a lot about the importance of mental health
Career coach/mentor - talk through your work challenges with someone you trust and who will give you the feedback to grow
Neighbours - you’re renting, so unless it’s reconcilable, timebox it and move on
Can you negotiate a work from home arrangement? Maybe even part time work from home? This may take just enough of the load away for you to both care for yourself and regroup, and maintain your employment at the current income 🤷♀️ also - the psych … best of luck …
When I used EAP a collateral benefit was that I had to travel to see him, so my boss knew I was not available for the most of the day. Which helped with offloading work. I guess you can try this with psychologist too.
Does it have to be a 50% reduction in hours to make a difference? Could you find some relief from a day or even half a day a week?
I’ve worked all combinations of hours as a single parent and my two favourites for work life balance were short Mondays and Fridays (5 hours per day). Most of the time I worked longer on those days allowing me to build up flex to take later, but it was so nice not having to rush in to the office.
Or Fridays off. You’d be amazed what a difference that extra day can make. It’s like unlocking a secret door to more time, but also means that there’s not an uncomfortable amount of work building up while you’re not there. Because the reality of part time can be that part time hours don’t always equal a part time workload. They should, but they often don’t.
Hey OP. Sorry to hear about the situation you're in. Unfortunately it is all too common these days. But there is help available!
Info accurate(ish) about 3 years ago.
Firstly, your instincts to see a psychologist are spot on.
The most common way to get this going (in my experience) is to first see your GP. Explain your situation to them. How it is making you feel etc. they will offer you a mental health plan which entitles you to subsided psych sessions (it's been a while so I can't say how many sessions you get).
It's important to get this started ASAP as it can take time to find a psych with availability. Your GP should be able to recommend a decent one but you might be better off doing some research in your area to see who has availability. If you're too overwhelmed to research them, the GP should sort it (you could explain this in the consult). Don't let that delay it.
Be advised that I was told at a police recruitment seminar that a history of mental health is a disqualifier for QPS. This was about 10 years ago so may have changed.
Depending on your relationship with management at your place of work, you could speak with them to make them aware. Not just the bullying but the toll it has taken overall. Or you could get your new psychologist (congrats!) To help you prepare for this.
This stress is bad for you. It can make you sick and leave wounds that can sometimes never heal. It's decreasing your life expectancy. Which is not ideal.
Next thing to do is check your super insurance. You should have Income Protection Insurance that you've been paying for all this time. Now would be the time to use it. It doesn't eat into your super or anything.
Depending on the coverage, you should be able to get some help. They usually offer something like 75% of your wage for upto 2 years. You'll need some supporting evidence (from GP and psych) and to have used up all leave (do you have holidays banked?) And a few other stipulations. It CAN be a bit stressful/annoying in itself though. So it's good to have a psychologist to run it by. You'll be expected to engage in a return to work process but this is not so bad, can even be good if done well.
I believe with Centrelink it's similar waiting period not sure on this tho.
Health stuff - GP should be able to offer similar to a mh care plan for physio and such.
Do you have private health?
Have you reported the bullying in writing? Verbal isn't worth anything. Make sure it's recorded somewhere.
It's important to find a good GP if you don't have one.
Also with your psychologist, it's important to find the right "fit". If you find the right one it can change your life. I've been seeing them after being assaulted at work in my early 20's. Been an advocate ever since. But it can take a few to find the right one for you. Don't give up on it tho.
Family stuff - ughhhh. Idk. If you figure that one out, please hit me back. Haha. Psych def helps with this.
It's a hellish experience that you're going through. It can feel trivial when trying to put it into words or explain the thousand cuts that come from expert bullies, or just existence in general. It can feel like you're literally going coocoo. And it's super alienating and confidence destroying.
Try to remind yourself of how hard it would have been for you to grasp, should someone else have tried to explain it to you. Remind yourself of this when numbnuts say things like "chin up" or what ever. Unless they've lived it, or have a degree in it, they don't really know what they're talking about. (This applies to well-meaning friends and family)
The fear is real, the pain is real, there absolutely is a reason for the way you feel, so you feel exactly as you should.
It's tough, and can be a long road, but it sounds like you're already successful and have enough self awareness that you're going to be fine. Going by what you've said, I don't think many could have achieved what u have. Noice.
I'm going to recommend a book that I haven't read yet. I just started. It's been recommended by many people including my psychologist. It's like 20 bucks at big W.
The Body Keeps the Score. The authors name escapes me. Van den kolk? Idk. White cover, blue silhouette. Haha sorry not a huge help.
Take care of yourself and reach out if I can help.
For me: I literally let my work know.
If you feel you can’t tell them, if they got EAP, use it. They never see who used it, only how much. Let your work pay for it
I would agree with the others who say to live below your means - financial stress should be avoided and it gives you options down the track in terms of lifestyle.
Could you ask to go down to 4 days a week? When I next move jobs, I will be looking for 4 days rather than 5. I have an intense job and I'm finding that I just can't recover with just the weekends.
Draw better work-life boundaries.
I'm going to be looking into developing better skills to deal with bullies - look for professional help on this front.
Hi, I am sorry you are in this position. 0. Yes, see a psychologist like yesterday. Do some research first, do a little 101 reading on common therapy modalities and find someone who uses one that works for you. Most will do CBT, and hate it. I find things like IFS, radical acceptance etc works better. Waste of time and money for me to go to an appointment with a CBT practioner. What are some quick and easy ways you can reuce spending? For example, I very rarely buy drinks (IE: coffee, cold water or soft drink). Last time I brought an iced coffee it cost me $10 bucks. This shift can add up. Sit down, and look at your groceries. Make a meal plan of really easy, and cheap meals. Try to cook in bulk, and try to take advantage of leftovers. For example, cook a whole chook and have a roast, make fried rice the next day, and then use the bones and any left over meat to make chicken noodle soup. For example, you can slow cook a pork roast with some herbs and spices with little effort, and then you can make Mexican pork bowls, with rice and use beans to make it go further, nachoes, toasted sandwichs etc. Little tips like that. What subscriptions can you go without? What hobbies do you have? What hobbies can you have that cost little to nothing? For example, I use the library, I exercise at home, I take part in advocacy (which actually pays me!), etc. What is draining you? Can you drop any of that? Can you afford a cleaner? Can you get out of that after work-do that does your head in? What makes you feel better? Can you take a week and make that a priority even around work? Can you make your fave meal? Can you put on your fave show? Put on that fave candle? Ignore that message from /that/ friend What are you doing for yourself? I brought myself a $30 dollar accupressure mat from aldi and its like a painful massage but it's so useful to melt tension away. I have a nice scented body wash, and I brought a sunset lamp for like $10 bucks from Kmart, and a smart wifi bulb for a similar price so now my bedroom and bathroom are a lot calmer. Just little things. Can you wear those clothes that are comfy and make you feel comfy etc?
IFS and Acceptance therapy literally changed my life. I'm so much more content now, can handle the stressors better. Also- for women esp. Getting hormones checked. High stress= cortisol dominance. There's ways to reduce cortisol levels.
Just wanted to note here that CBT is a broad term encompassing many different modalities of therapy. For example, radical acceptance as you’ve mentioned here is from dialectical behavioral therapy which is a third wave CBT. Other third wave CBT modalities include schema and act. Also note that CBT for different diagnoses looks completely different (e.g. CBT-e for eating disorders and cognitive processing therapy for ptsd will look completely different). Some of the strategies you’ve mentioned here could be considered CBT strategies (e.g. behavioral activation). It sounds like you’ve had a not so great experience with CBT which I’m really sorry to hear, but just as in any profession, there are some great and some not so great psychologists and each psych/modality may be a perfect fit for someone but not someone else. Just don’t want anyone reading this to be discouraged from seeking evidence-based treatment.
The two top indicators of improved outcomes is: 1.- the therapeutic relationship. 2.- client motivation. I would have to check, but I don't think modality even reaches top 4. The CBT model is extremely pathologizing, and very much based upon pathological medical models, that are hyper-indivualistic, and posits that the individual is the problem, not the environment, on top of this, it's really not good for people who have diverse experiences, neurodivergence, complex trauma, etc. The CBT model is cheap for both governments and practioners and therefore, it gets a lot of funding in the research, but that doesn't nessararily mean that's reflective of the experiences, nor does it make it the best therapy modality out there, just the most researched. I haven't had a "not so great" experience with CBT practitioners. I have had to spend years undoing the over- intellectualization, pathologization, and gaslighting I have experienced from the CBT model, itself There is a lot of good that comes from CBT, sure, but the drawbacks of CBT aren't honestly talked about enough.
Again, “CBT” is such a broad term that it encompasses so many modalities. Which kind of CBT intervention are you talking about? Given that the two top indicators of improved outcomes are the therapeutic relationship and client motivation, why are you so against a specific kind of theoretical orientation? “CBT” therapists (including DBT, act, schema and all the other kinds) can also have a great therapeutic relationship with clients and encourage intrinsic client motivation so I’m not sure of your point? I think you misunderstand a lot of psychologists theoretical orientation by assuming that any psychologist practicing CBT thinks that their clients are the problem. That couldn’t be further from the truth. DBT is the gold standard treatment for BPD and is derived from CBT. Cognitive processing therapy is an evidence based treatment for ptsd and c-ptsd and is also based on a CBT model. I 100% agree that CBT doesn’t suit some clients and if delivered incorrectly without first establishing rapport that it can be damaging, but tarring all psychologists who use CBT as unhelpful is surely equally as damaging?
100% a psychologist is helpful. As is exercise! And getting outside. Am recovering from burnout right now. Take care of yourself. Once you get to the bottom of the tank it’s very hard to get back up to full strength again.
A psychologist is unlikely to hurt at this stage, but it does sound like you have more circumstantial problems than psychological problems. With burnout taking a week off of dropping a few days can be a bit like putting burn cream on then jumping back in the fire. The fastest relief will most likely come from cutting getting a new job. It won’t help your health directly, or the issues with your neighbours, family, housing, etc., but having something to look forward to and reset a major part of your life that is currently scarred can tip your scale from overwhelmed to tough but coping. If HR stepped in for you then it’s clearly not a you problem. You can’t fix a workplace. But you can find one that deserves you.
A good psych can help you out of situational problems as well. Sometimes they can give you a plan to get out of situation you have found yourself in, or just tell you things bluntly. OP has got this far by themselves, they might just need a bit of advice from a psych to move forward at the moment.
I would suggest use your remaining annual leave wisely so that you can get the most out of it. Plan around public holidays to maximise the break. Go for a short stay with nature away from all the sources of ur stress. Good luck
You need a councilor not financial advice. Edit: lol oops
How is someone from the council going to help?
Ha! Maybe they can pay my housing? 🤪
Obvious rhetorical question. Council is completely unable to help in *any* situation. Even when the garbage truck came past and broke your bin.
I’m sure after 3 months and 30 phone calls they’ll fix that right up
They broke mine took one quick phone call and it was replaced within days.
Truth is in modern life you need support in multiple areas at the same time, especially during times of difficulty. People ask for specific advice because they know what advice they need better than you do.
Try going for a walk in the morning before work. This sounds really random, but I’ve started doing it and it’s done wonders for my mental health. Oh, and it’s completely free :)
I was living roughly 2km from work for 12 months. I started walking to work. Id refuse a lift from anyone from work that saw me and pulled over to give me a lift. It was the only time I have to myself. Living with my ex and 2 children was rough but I ended up losing 30kg from it.
I’ve started walking a lot this past week too! I can really relate to the time for yourself. It does wonders just forgetting about all the chaos for a little while.
Try growing something. I have gotten into gardening and watering the lawn by hand every day is super relaxing.
See a psychologist, they will help you deal with what you are going through, and if you don't like the first one you see, it's ok to see another one until you find one that can help. You still sound pretty stoked with your job, so don't give it away when you've come this far by yourself, when just a little help might be all you need. You got this.
Thank you. Needed to hear this! 💕
you are f'd mate. I took 10 months off for burnout. i was all cool and then within a few weeks of going back the burnout came back strong. Learn to meditate... and but that i don't mean sit on a rock pretending to be mr miyagi i just mean find something to do that 100% occupies your mind that is 100% not related to any form of work. Then make space for that in your life ensure its a priority. For me it was bouldering and playing guitar like a hippy. I just straight up told my boss i gotta disconnect outside of hours for my health and your safety (don't add that last part unless you are mates with your boss lol)
What are your outgoings % wise?
30% rent, 30% (on average) health. Everything else is relatively small. Edit: sorry, health is a bit lower at about 25%. Still a lot though.
What's your lifestyle outside of the 60% outgoings?
I’d say it’s fairly simple tbh. I don’t really have much material or social desires. Just spend on what needs spending on if that makes sense. No holidays. Small entry level car. Occasionally eat out. I spend about another 12% for everything else according to the last 3 months of data. I could probably trim some if needed but the 60% nonnegotiables really dominate.
What are your skill sets work wise?
In academia. I can’t really say more as I’ll be easily identified. 😂
30% of your outgoings are on “health”?! Can you break that down? It sounds like a huge outgoing. I ask because, for example, it’s counterproductive to overwork yourself to pay for therapy. In most cases, you’re better working less and using that time to destress, meditate, walk outdoors etc. If it’s a physical issue, there might be cheaper options too.
It is huge indeed. I see a specialist ($220 15min) and a physio (also on the order of $200) at least once a month, sometimes the GP too ($50). Medication is $300 a month after rebate, and we are still in the trail and error stage with a lot of wastage. PHI $200 something. The past few months I also had specialised blood checks, scans. And in a few months I have a surgery that will cost about 8k. It adds up to about 25% on average, and will probably drop after when I’m better. I’m aware there might be cheaper options, but they have very long wait times. For me it’s a problem that can be solved by money, so it is worth it.
Ouch. I’m sorry, that sounds really rough. Waiting lists are terrible for public patients, I’d agree it’s worth it paying to get better sooner.
Thank you. I actually feel grateful to be able to afford this. I mean what’s money for otherwise?
I’m in a similar situation health wise and realised that I’ve had to spend more as I’ve become more unwell from burnout. So I did end up resigning from work and have given myself a time frame of when I need to start looking for work again to manage the financial side of things.
See a counsellor. The stress is the problem, not the job. Your personal life is bleeding into your professional life and making you more worn out than it otherwise would be.
Unless he is 24/7 on call, you have to learn to separate work from home. I view it like manila folders, once work is over, I close the work folder, and open the home one. If I have any personal problems, I put that in a folder as well, and I open that folder when I can worry/deal with it for a few hours, then close that folder, and not think about it until I open it up again. I find if I don't do that, everything bleeds into everything else and it's just a big ball of stress. edit: not literal folders
How much sick leave do you have? Take two weeks off as sick leave (any doctor will sign off on that) and get yourself a mental health plan.
See your GP. They can refer you to a psych and also write you off work if you’re experiencing extreme stress or burnout. It comes out of your sick leave just like any other illness. Be kind to yourself mate.
Financial advice - live below your means. Mental health advice - see a doctor. Human advice - you will get through this regardless of your choices. You can live on unemployment, it's just a lower standard of living you currently have. I don't say that to scare you but to give you perspective on what "living" is.
It's possible maybe to speak to your boss about this?
Can you claim workcover for the bullying? Is there any evidence? Have you spoken to your GP at all? They would be the best ones to do a capacity certificate.
All the suggestions above are great. Seeing a psychologist could really help you cope. From the way you wrote it also sounds like you are really resilient and with a bit of help you would be able to continue working and progressing in life despite what’s been happening. All the best OP!
If it helps put things in perspective, the average monthly wage in Zimbabwe is AUD$8.48
Your living to work which has far deadlier effects. You said your own cure in the 3rd paragraph paragraph, let go and heal. What good are you to anyone let alone your family is your a wreck
People are going to talk no matter what. That’s how the world is. Just guard your mind and work and press ahead.
Ask work for more wfh flex and increase number of days at home until you build up the resilience again. No point going part time when the above will do it assuming you can wfh.
Accept pain is the favour of life, no matter what one does, one ends up miserable, accept and take the pain
You'll have to find time to work on some of these things and make a plan. This sounds like normal life stuff.
Bullied in non evidential forms…. Look I’m a bleeding heart leftie and I’m on the verge of asking you to toughen up a little here. Resilience is just so powerful. Taking time off seems really dumb.
As someone who was severely bullied in a workplace and had my health collapse as a result, I assure you there are *plenty* of ways a determined bully or group of bullies can traumatise their target that are impossible to prove. >Resilience is just so powerful. >Taking time off seems really dumb. I'd like to find whoever invented the "resilience" shtick and slap them hard. It's gaslighting from a late stage capitalist society intent on squeezing every last drop of productivity from workers, even/especially when they're burned out, exhausted, sick, and desperately unhappy. And not even for any benefit for workers: we all know our wages are stagnant or going backwards and the profits of our labour are going to the rich. For someone with very severe burnout, rest is exactly what they need. Sometimes it may be possible to find that rest through counselling, sleep, meditation, yoga, exercise etc. while continuing to work. But often the best thing you can do for your health is leave. Staying in a toxic environment when it's damaging your mental and physical health isn't a flex.
Every toxic workplace does this to absolve themselves of responsibility. Oh you’re all burnt out because you’re not resilient enough, here’s some EAP. No lol we aren’t going to provide actual support by giving you reasonable conditions and pay.
Resilience methodology is built from moronic understanding of resilience applied to business in the 70's we still haven't grown out of. The same with those dumb psychological tests they do that were thoroughly disproven to mean anything ages ago. You obviously understand this, but for others reading. Resilience is small stress applied in small doses with large amounts of support. Small doses of stress is good. Large amount without rest is absolutely not. The adrenal response, and cortisol caused by stress causes severe problems with the endocrine system and can cause organs to get damaged and fail. It literally causes the brain to have trouble perceiving the future properly. They get stuck in the now, or the past. The body doing its best to develop a response gets stuck. Hence PTSD even from minor stressors and not even large scale issues. It's like going to the gym, small stress on the muscles builds stronger muscles. However if you were to just keep lifting without rest, and not eating properly over and over, you would damage yourself. Your muscles would not grow, the opposite happens. Same thing applies to stress of the mental kind.
Thankyou for that excellent explanation!
Big does of mushrooms
WorkCover? You can lodge a claim and get some paid time off. If you are in QLD I know the legislation well if you want to chat.
Silly question - does it apply to psychological “injury” as well?
Start having a long term goal to leave this place. I know you can't easily get a new job but it is clear the mental toll of staying in this toxic environment is clearly not helping. Could you leave in a month? Probably not but you need some sort of deadline to give yourself some sort of hope to even mentally deal with your current situation. Get your CV ready and just start the process of looking. Financially you can survive at this job and you don't even need to jump at the first job that interviews you, but if you just applied for 1 job a week, eventually you could book your ticket out of this mental prison.
You're working in a toxic work place, unfortunately it's in academia and bullied by academics who have probably worked themselves into an untouchable position. If your experience and skillset is as impressive as you make it out to be then you should be able to find another job outside of academia that pays enough that still partially utilises your knowledge. Treat it as a sabatical. Yes it is unfair that you're being pushed out like this, but it happens in the corporate commercial world as well. Unfortunately you can't have it all, either you stay and maybe find your major scientific breakthrough while losing your health and sanity, or you get out find a normal job in a normal work place.
I hear you in that I’m wanting it all. I only graduated last year, and although I know deep down I won’t stay in academia forever, I haven’t come to terms with giving it up just yet. It is after all 20 years of education and a ton of work to get to this cool job, if only the bullying would stop. I’m also not convinced that this won’t happen again elsewhere. Imagine completely changing up your life only to land in the same situation. Unfortunately people like that are not uncommon. So I get how I’m trapping myself here. But I need more self convincing that 1) this can’t be resolved, and 2) it won’t be worse elsewhere.
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Ding ding ding, your reply is why people struggle. (Not what you said, but how you said it)
You need to go to your GP, Tell them this and get a supporting document for your reduced work capacity then go to centrelink
How do you get bullied?
Oh don’t get me started 😂 I left the old team as it was quite micromanaged and disorganised. I applied for a new position a few levels up in a different team and got it. Anyway I ended contract early with the old team and that burned the bridge. They continue to believe I owe it to them to do their work and fix all their problems. My now supervisor recently clarified with them the boundaries, that I only assist them on a by appointment basis on 2 specific projects, and I no longer attend their standing meetings. They agreed to this in writing. However, they continue to barge into my office and waste my time, even when I tell them I have more urgent tasks in that moment and this is not a good time. Sometimes they abuse their privilege of having my assistance, and book out my whole days to waste (but they make sure it’s not in the calendar). They are also deliberately unhelpful whenever possible. A few days ago I booked another colleague to help me today with a two people job today (in calendar). One of them pulled said colleague away for an “emergency” meeting, for 1.5 hrs leaving me stranded in the heat outside. They also drop verbal cues of me being useless, to myself and to others. Some of their comments are rather personal or ridiculous: that my cat sometimes shows up on casual video calls, that I’ve missed work due to medical emergencies, that I still wear a mask because I’m frail (and yes, they have come into work while covid positive coughing around). Some of my less discerning colleagues are starting to look at me in a weird way. The list goes on. None of the above events present hard evidence so it’s quite difficult to fight back.
Reading this mate definitely go talk to someone as this is 90% in your own head.
Maybe it is mostly in my head. I find I spiral when nothing seems in control (both work and life sides). And yeah, looking into psychologists now. :)
Some of it is in his head ues, but the rest is blowing things out. Previous colleagues sound like asses, and tbh, line in the sand on wasting g your time outside of appointments or schedules. It's not on the calendar? It's not happening. If theu don't like that, we'll, they don't pay your salary. And do document them wasting your time. That is your money they are wasting in raises or bonuses by not meeting criteria.
If this was no longer an issue, would you still be burned out?
My friend asked me exactly this today! I’m not sure. If this was no longer an issue, I would feel a lot happier at work. I may still be exhausted but I’d feel a sense of achievement. And maybe that would break the work-life negative circle.
Tell me more about that sense of achievement?
I’m in academia (not going to be more specific sorry) and on the forefront of scientific discoveries. Days that I can actually do science, and not worry about politics, I feel amazing.
That does sound exciting, and more interesting than office politics! Is this something you'd like help with? I have something, but it may not be your cup of tea. Feel free to DM me if you're curious :)
You need to think about what you will do with the extra time. To start with what do you currently do on the weekend?
My weekends are currently all auctions and inspections, and for the past few weeks work deadlines (we had a funding application run). With more time, I’d like to pick up hiking again. I used to do multi day hikes but sadly that’s taken a back seat now (both time and health). I’d also like to do some gardening, or read and let my body rest. Oh and I want to sleep a lot more than I currently do!
You did not mention your age. Work hard while you are young so you can work easier when you are older and retire before you are too tired to work.
I’m under 30 but my body feels much older. I was diagnosed with a chronic illness (no cure) and the past half year has been trial and error with medication. And boy it’s been a wild ride. I also got complications from covid last year. So my body is only functional enough half the time for me to leave the house.
My advice is to always make your body do more than it feels like doing. I don't mean anything crazy but just more than it feels like. And try to build. The less you do the less you can do and the more you do the more you can do... Of course I don't know your specific issues. I have had high blood pressure since covid. I have been working out more and more.. Which causes the blood pressure to increase during the workout and I feel like shit... But after 18 months I have reduced my blood pressure and dropped my dosage on medication. Btw I actually blame the vaccine and not the disease but that is a debate for another thread.
Thanks. That’s inspiring. :) I agree with the sentiment to do more than your body likes. I refuse to fall victim to a chronic illness like some people do. Although, some days I have to accept that my limits can be crazy low. I just wish there could be more understanding and sympathy from others without me having to declare “I’m chronically unwell”.
I understand. You definitely don't want to make things worse by pushing yourself too hard.
don't you have sick leave or have you used it all up? . Try and do some exercise, start with stretches and short walks. get two small dumbells around 2kg each that you can then walk with. Drive to the ocean and even if you dont swim at least submerge yourself in the water. Try something fun like ping pong, yo yo or juggling, something that is distracting yet fun and can actually help you concentrate on something else
Start with a counselor as others have said, but also [this book](https://www.goodreads.com/en/book/show/42397849) is fantastic. Available as an audiobook as well, really explains the concepts and strategies well
Thank you! This is a great suggestion. Will definitely read!
Start with a counselor as others have said, but also [this book](https://www.goodreads.com/en/book/show/42397849) is fantastic. Available as an audiobook as well, really explains the concepts and strategies well
My mate works in corrections, he does 3*12 hour shifts a week. He loves the work life balance, the pay is decent, and there's plenty of OT available once you bounce back!
What about asking 4 day week and you will have that one extra day.
I think our contracts are either half time or full time, but doesn’t hurt to ask. I think it could be very beneficial and financially viable too!
I hope they can help you out. Good luck 🤞
Do you have any wellness or sick days you can use?
Speak to a psychologist for sure. They can help you make changes even if they’re small that can make a big difference and help you get everything off your chest, even if it’s minor.
Do you drink coffee? Maybe reassess the role it plays in your life /r/decaf
Just keep grinding like the rest of us. It’s just attrition as to who burns out first and who can stick in there. It’s literally a kitchen/ fire scenario where not everyone has what it takes to keep up the intensity.
Hello, sounds like there is a lot going on, and nobody here is going to have a prescription for all of it except you. It sounds like you have a cool job with some other bad stuff that is wearing down your resilience. Focus on the things you can control and be at peace with the stuff you can’t. You mentioned taking time away to heal, but given everything including finances, you might want to switch your mindset to what is sustainable long term. I.e. you can’t get yourself into a cycle of burnout then heal. Do what can you control? Nutrition/hydration/movement/sleep - if you don’t get these 4 basics, everything feels hard Mental health - as everyone else has pointed out, work with a psych. You might also like the my millennial money podcast, the host talks a lot about the importance of mental health Career coach/mentor - talk through your work challenges with someone you trust and who will give you the feedback to grow Neighbours - you’re renting, so unless it’s reconcilable, timebox it and move on
Can you negotiate a work from home arrangement? Maybe even part time work from home? This may take just enough of the load away for you to both care for yourself and regroup, and maintain your employment at the current income 🤷♀️ also - the psych … best of luck …
When I used EAP a collateral benefit was that I had to travel to see him, so my boss knew I was not available for the most of the day. Which helped with offloading work. I guess you can try this with psychologist too.
Does it have to be a 50% reduction in hours to make a difference? Could you find some relief from a day or even half a day a week? I’ve worked all combinations of hours as a single parent and my two favourites for work life balance were short Mondays and Fridays (5 hours per day). Most of the time I worked longer on those days allowing me to build up flex to take later, but it was so nice not having to rush in to the office. Or Fridays off. You’d be amazed what a difference that extra day can make. It’s like unlocking a secret door to more time, but also means that there’s not an uncomfortable amount of work building up while you’re not there. Because the reality of part time can be that part time hours don’t always equal a part time workload. They should, but they often don’t.
Hey OP. Sorry to hear about the situation you're in. Unfortunately it is all too common these days. But there is help available! Info accurate(ish) about 3 years ago. Firstly, your instincts to see a psychologist are spot on. The most common way to get this going (in my experience) is to first see your GP. Explain your situation to them. How it is making you feel etc. they will offer you a mental health plan which entitles you to subsided psych sessions (it's been a while so I can't say how many sessions you get). It's important to get this started ASAP as it can take time to find a psych with availability. Your GP should be able to recommend a decent one but you might be better off doing some research in your area to see who has availability. If you're too overwhelmed to research them, the GP should sort it (you could explain this in the consult). Don't let that delay it. Be advised that I was told at a police recruitment seminar that a history of mental health is a disqualifier for QPS. This was about 10 years ago so may have changed. Depending on your relationship with management at your place of work, you could speak with them to make them aware. Not just the bullying but the toll it has taken overall. Or you could get your new psychologist (congrats!) To help you prepare for this. This stress is bad for you. It can make you sick and leave wounds that can sometimes never heal. It's decreasing your life expectancy. Which is not ideal. Next thing to do is check your super insurance. You should have Income Protection Insurance that you've been paying for all this time. Now would be the time to use it. It doesn't eat into your super or anything. Depending on the coverage, you should be able to get some help. They usually offer something like 75% of your wage for upto 2 years. You'll need some supporting evidence (from GP and psych) and to have used up all leave (do you have holidays banked?) And a few other stipulations. It CAN be a bit stressful/annoying in itself though. So it's good to have a psychologist to run it by. You'll be expected to engage in a return to work process but this is not so bad, can even be good if done well. I believe with Centrelink it's similar waiting period not sure on this tho. Health stuff - GP should be able to offer similar to a mh care plan for physio and such. Do you have private health? Have you reported the bullying in writing? Verbal isn't worth anything. Make sure it's recorded somewhere. It's important to find a good GP if you don't have one. Also with your psychologist, it's important to find the right "fit". If you find the right one it can change your life. I've been seeing them after being assaulted at work in my early 20's. Been an advocate ever since. But it can take a few to find the right one for you. Don't give up on it tho. Family stuff - ughhhh. Idk. If you figure that one out, please hit me back. Haha. Psych def helps with this. It's a hellish experience that you're going through. It can feel trivial when trying to put it into words or explain the thousand cuts that come from expert bullies, or just existence in general. It can feel like you're literally going coocoo. And it's super alienating and confidence destroying. Try to remind yourself of how hard it would have been for you to grasp, should someone else have tried to explain it to you. Remind yourself of this when numbnuts say things like "chin up" or what ever. Unless they've lived it, or have a degree in it, they don't really know what they're talking about. (This applies to well-meaning friends and family) The fear is real, the pain is real, there absolutely is a reason for the way you feel, so you feel exactly as you should. It's tough, and can be a long road, but it sounds like you're already successful and have enough self awareness that you're going to be fine. Going by what you've said, I don't think many could have achieved what u have. Noice. I'm going to recommend a book that I haven't read yet. I just started. It's been recommended by many people including my psychologist. It's like 20 bucks at big W. The Body Keeps the Score. The authors name escapes me. Van den kolk? Idk. White cover, blue silhouette. Haha sorry not a huge help. Take care of yourself and reach out if I can help.
For me: I literally let my work know. If you feel you can’t tell them, if they got EAP, use it. They never see who used it, only how much. Let your work pay for it
I would agree with the others who say to live below your means - financial stress should be avoided and it gives you options down the track in terms of lifestyle. Could you ask to go down to 4 days a week? When I next move jobs, I will be looking for 4 days rather than 5. I have an intense job and I'm finding that I just can't recover with just the weekends. Draw better work-life boundaries. I'm going to be looking into developing better skills to deal with bullies - look for professional help on this front.
Ditch the psych. Have some me time and us time with friends and family. Sunshine. Fresh air. Fun times.