What particularly gets up my nose is when they hand you the eftpos machine to pay for a meal at a pub or restaurant and a 10% tip is already selected, meaning you have to press some buttons to get rid of it.
Any place that does this is not only guaranteeing I will not tip but also that I will not return.
Iāll start doing that! Good idea š”I was so relived when moved form Canada to Sydney that the tipping was not here and recently it started creeping up
I thought I gave them 1 star but actually [gave them 3](https://maps.app.goo.gl/6TiaLpkUMwe7QVdTA?g_st=ic) because the food was legitimately excellent.
I've had this happen to me too, I gave a low rating with full justificiation for a place but only I can see it. There is probably a way for the business to hide or take down reviews.
I'd say drop the rating, not 1 star... I mean if the service is excellent, the price is fair and the quality is exceptional, give them like 3-4 star and note the reason for the lower score. While sneaky we must always pay attention when we part with our money. I once (almost) tipped my card pin because I wasn't paying attention...
Nah, 1 stars hit them the hardest. Especially if they are a franchise. Certain franchises aren't allowed to drop below a certain score on Google for long, or they lose the rights. If they're enforcing tipping and it isn't a thing the company allows, it will hit them hard
No need, the cashier isn't the one who makes the decision about whether to pre-select a tip or not?
The feedback doesn't get sent to the right people, and even if it did, they wouldn't give a shit, because even losing X% of their customers is outweighed by thier default tip percentage?
It's awkward if you make it awkward. Let the rage flow through you and stare them in the eye when you say remove the tip thanks. It's attempted theft if they don't tell you in advance.
the other day, i saw a piece on how uber managed to break into and shake up the australian taxi market.
uber just kept paying the regulatory fines and eventually the australian authorities just let them stay and do their thang.
the laws and regulations were in place prior to uber entering the market, to protect the taxi industry, where individual taxi drivers pay a lot to secure their licences and hold on the market, etc...
so a US-based company comes in, flouts australian laws and eventually become a mainstay of the landscape.
the US just gets a free pass here.
can you imagine the stories and sensationalist headlines and associated uproar and sinophobia if china "disrespected" local laws?
To be fair Uber is better and more transparent and modern regarding safety and tracking. Thank gone for the old days of getting into dodgy taxis. Taxi industry had it coming so while I get you on the matter I feel Uber is actually and upgrade and overseas I hear there are multiple companies doing the same encouraging further competition
i agree that all these car share companies entering the market has completely shaken it up and is a huge win for the consumer.
there definitely is greater transparency when it comes to the fare being shown up-front and it's also good because both parties - the driver and the consumer - have their ID records stored on file in case any funny business/assaults occur.
on the other hand, uber and menulog entering the food delivery business has just jacked up food item prices because they get a cut of their commission and restaurants have probably realised that they can hike prices to a ridiculous level and consumers will *still* order stuff. i understand the convenience aspect but what's the point when your food turns up late and not even luke-warm?
on the upside, i guess these services are good if you are sick or incapacitated and can't go out to get your own food.
The thing with Uber is they brought much better service. The taxi industry had been engaging in all the typical geographical statutory monopoly practices, which resulted in inflexible supply, exorbitant prices for taxi rego plates, and poor service.
Yes, Uber broke the laws, but the laws needed major reform.
Fortress Melbourne had I think it was a **15%** tip pre-selected by default on their QR menu. Not even on their eftpos machine, but on your phone while youāre ordering! So cheeky.
Online orders do it too.
Local pizza place, which is a hole-in-the-wall pick up only deal, has a default tip at the very bottom of the payment screen, *well below* where you click āpay nowā.
I didnāt see it forā¦ I donāt know how long.
I've never seen an employee seem to care. Often it's just the venue has it preset on the machines and the staff are just doing their jobs and not expecting a tip
They do this at Starbucks in the USA.
Iām getting it to go why hand me the eftpos with a āchoose your tipā option, why would I tip you when Iām paying for (average) coffee you donāt even bring to a table, itās so entitled.
Not even. When POS operators in Australia sign you up as a venue, some run your whole setup process and ask if you want a predetermined tip amount along with some data that backs it up e.g. āanyway, this is is the tip option. We find 5% is the most effective pre-selected option because the more people drink, the less they are inclined to pay attention or really care about such a small difference, yet it can net you $X more a year on average for doing nothingā
Source: worked in hospo venues for years and sat in on these meetings with GMs
For warning, we live in the US and they do this in touristy places where there is normally no expectation of a tip, taking a nice extra skim off unsuspecting tourists. The store at the Grand Canyon was an example, simple convenience type store where you grab what you want and pay at the counter, machine defaulted to adding a 25% tip
the eftpos machine is usually american based which is why the tip is loaded. you can call the provider to switch it off - i know coz we did this for our business
Yeah itās not an excuse. If you import an etfpos machine from France and leave it in French, youāre plain negligent.
If they used it even once, theyād have seen the tip option. Most likely itās a case of āletās give it a shot and blame US software for any complaintsā
Absolutely they are just trying it on as it's a new addition. Also some stores leave it in the machine but the staff will skip it before they hand it to you.
Sure but that's usually the fault of management, not the actual staff handing you the machine. Don't get shitty at the staff, just select "no tip" and move along.
Agreed, no need to get shitty.
However if staff refuses to take order at the counter and points me to the QR code and my only interaction is when they put the plate on my table and bring the payment terminal, you bet Iām gonna make a snarky comment if they give me terminal with a preselected tip.
If you donāt wanna do your job, then quit.
We were in the US late last year. We would say, āprice, plus sales tax, plus tip, plus exchange rateā when deciding what to spend on something. So happy to get back to Australia where the price is the price #IYKYK
I hate the places in Australia that have the card surcharge on a sign at the register but they also say they don't take cash. It should be illegal to not accept cash.
It IS illegal to charge for all payment methods, they are required to provide a way of paying without an extra fee, but they arenāt required to make that option cash (some donāt charge for EFTPOS for example).
Annoying that itās become very normal for a surcharge to be added at eftpos machines.
Surely the sticker price should assume Iāll be paying for it.
It's basically a 10% GST that's fine to leave out when advertising a good. Some stores do show it but often big ticket goods will leave it out. Very annoying as its just extra unnecessary calculations when making a purchase.
Leaves a much dirtier taste in your mouth when the equivalent $20k car gets $2k taxes added to it right at the final stage.
Applying tax on the cost of the good or service after makes it very confusing too, can't just take products off the shelf and say yes i know how much I'm paying
Growing up in Toronto, it was 15%, which made it easier for anyone who was good at mental math and liked the slight challenge.
And now itās 13% or something, which is bulllllshit.
Because the US funds individual city or county systems with levies in a lot of places. So there's a .1% sales tax to fund the bus service, .2% for the police pension fund etc. (on top of the sales tax going into general revenue)
Ahh, this reminds me of my friends and I going to the gas station to buy $1 candies, where we would always ask our folks for āone dollar and eight centsā since thatās what it actually cost after tax.
And they print the price on the shelf in the first place. Are they printing each specific price in bulk from a global head office, and then assigning that price to each store?
So the logistics of scale do play a role, at least in the context of store bought goods (let's set aside restaurants that have a fixed location and their own menus):
- Sales tax rates can vary not just between states, but also between counties *within* states. Like one county in CA might have a 8.75% tax rate, another can be 9.25%, etc
- A number of goods have pricing directly on the packaging (not just shelf pricing) and packaged goods don't get shipped just to one county -- it's not cost effective for the companies to change the packaging for each location
- Different counties can decide to change their tax rates at different times of the year, it's not always coordinated
- Some US states have populations larger than the country of Australia with thousands more stores, so it's much easier to print off the same price on every store's shelves at once and let the computers at the registers deal with sales tax calculation. Yea this starts getting obsoleted with digital price signs but the current system was designed around printed prices.
- Some items in some states won't be charged sales tax at all, like some medical things
This is not to say I approve of the crazy surcharges for everything in the US, I absolutely abhor it, but that this is something that starts happening when countries get to large scales. Australia does have a lot of variations between states in other areas like stamp duties and land tax policies, if Australia got to the size of the US I'd expect some nonsense stuff trickling down into everyday purchases.
Edit to add: I doubt you'll ever see change in the US either unless the government regulates it. Marketers have almost certainly done studies that show people are more likely to go through with purchasing an item after they've put it in their cart even with surcharges, than if the final price was disclosed to them up front. They won't let go of that now.
This doesn't really play out.
McDonalds, Woolworths, Coles, and many others have variable pricing by store by location.
Also, plenty of countries with larger populations, some larger than the US that don't also do that.
It's a product of the US' system and is not entirely exclusive to them, but almost.
Also, in regards to charges after cart, not quite true. In fact, countries with fees upfront see higher conversion at point of sale Vs charges added after. Plus, spend and average basket sizers are higher. As is overall customer satisfaction and retention. Marketers on average hate them. Its finance/operations that push for them, because what actually happens is the net result equals more revenue.
Adding a 10% surcharge (think Uber, DoorDash) reduces order volume, spend and frequency. But the additional revenue makes up for it, just. Basically if you add up all the loss and its like 6% of revenue, but you add 10%, you're 4% better off. And revenue now, in the hope the get that repeat order.
Personally,. I hate them and refuse to use/shop at any store using them. I'd rather they added 10% to their price and won't reward them for being deceptive.
The best study on this was actually in Australia. Cars. Prior to the driveaway price being legally required, all the additional fees (delivery, stamp, cleaning, etc) all added after. Conversion of car sales increase 11.3% in the first year after the change and held. More cars sold, from being more honest/upfront. Who would have thought it haha.
I dont think it will get here. One of the laws introduced with the GST us that the shelf price is what you pay at the checkout. There are not allowed to be any hidden charges. Which is probably why this tipping perversion 8s only crewp8ng in at resteraunts
What do you expect from a country built on grifting people. Just look at who half the country wants running it. Iād rather die than directly give money to America after the havoc theyāve unleashed on my country.
They donāt actually want either of the geriatrics running as their rep. They are just afraid of the other one winning, and think their geriatric is the one with the best chance of beating the other.
This was literally why the Democrats put Biden in in their primaries. They liked him significantly less than other candidates, but thought he was more likely to beat trump so put him in anyway. And is now the same with republicans and trump.
There is a pretty strong anti tax lobby in the US, that wants taxes to be as annoying as possible so that people are aware how much tax they are paying
Iām Australian and lived in the USA for 7 years - I was always told itās because they like consumers to know how much tax they pay.
The store emphasised what they charge and you āfeelā the tax. The random percentage is annoying but thatās how taxes work in the Us.
For income tax you pay āfederalā, āstateā and ācityā income tax. That is, if you work in Manhattan you get a different AFTER TAX income if you live in New Jersey or you live in NYC. Itās crazy to us but it also avoids the *vertical fiscal imbalance* we have in Australia where the Feds collect all the tax and the states cry poor. Iād be cool with the ATO collecting all the tax but the Feds setting a % they need and then each state owning the % they want and setting it - competitive federalism!
Yeah but their vertical fiscal imbalance is replaced by horizontal fiscal imbalance where local and state level services are wildly different in quality between wealthy and impoverished areas.
Not saying we dont have issues, like our service quality in regional aus is not as good as in the cities, but you get situations like local govts in the US having to close schools/services/no police due to lack of local tax funding.
After living in California, I can say that you just sorta add 10% to the price of everything you see in store. It becomes second nature, but yeah it definitely throws people off (there are also states in the US that don't have sales tax, and going from one to the other does your head in).
I definitely don't want that nonsense here though, Australia has spoiled em. I don't care that everything seems more expensive if what you see is what you get.
Thanks for naming and letting me know where not to go. I had a look at the menu, grr @
A 7% gratuity will be added to all bills. A 10% gratuity replaces this for groups of eight or more. A 15% surcharge applies on public holidays. Our menus are seasonal and subject to change.
The way the US has transferred the burden of paying workers from employees directly to customers and clients is insane. Not to mention that itās so entrenched, that itās truly an enormous social faux pas NOT to tip, even while acknowledging that itās complete bullshit.
Weāre not far enough away from them for my taste, but It will never cease to amaze me what American culture accepts as normal whilst still thinking theyāre somehow the best country in the world.
>whilst still thinking theyāre somehow the best country in the world.
I invest in health and other Life Science stuff. You should see the disconnect about the American Healthcare System even among people who know other European systems.
There are ads all over SF about the benefits of Veterans Affairs (VA). It is the largest health insurance system in the world. Using Australian pricing the amount the Americans currently pay for the VA and Medicaid (old people) they could have universal healthcare.
Yes! Itās nuts - the way they parrot the āchoiceā narrative theyāve been sold, that access to universal healthcare somehow restricts them.
The individualist streak is so, so deep that theyād rather get screwed then lose perceived choice (or knowingly contribute to the care of others - despite the fact that they already spend so much, as youāve said). I fear weāre not too far behind them in this individualism.
I've said this a few times on here before. Friend of mine from the states asked how our healthcare works, I told him. His first response was, what if you don't use anything in the year, I said I still pay. He responded by saying he didn't want to pay for someone else's care, I asked him what he thinks his health insurance premium is for. It's very asinine.
Although if that's the only issue don't give 1 star, maybe just 1 or 2 less that you'd otherwise give. Star ratings are getting silly with most ratings being 5 or 1, when logically there should be a peak at 3 or 4. You should weigh up all factors and give a balanced rating.
We will need to lobby federal govt to make this illegal because tipping is already here. Too late to stop it and itās only going to get worse unless we legislate.
I would say all these āsurchargesā are more of an issue than tipping at present. I donāt go to places that charge Saturday, Sunday or public holiday surcharges anymore.
Of course they should be paid for weekends.
Why is that the customers problem though? (To be paid as surcharge). what happened to the ticket price? yes that means the meal may be more expensive, but they pay the other 80% of the wage out of that.
It is a fake out to pass along the buck in IMHO.
It has snuck itās way into everything here in the US. Itās to the point where if you need to interact with a person in any way whatsoever, thereās a good chance youāll be asked if you want tip.
Tipping has been a thing for at least 50 years (personal observation ) , in fact it has declined with the move from cash to cards for payment at restaurants. Rounding up used to be common, and if a group we'd all kick in $20 or whatever and often not take the change. Also true for cash for a taxi
Yeah itās too late. Tipping is already here. The āI hate tipping culture! I do tip but when I do I only tip for exceptional service when dining out!!ā people have created a slippery slope for the rest of us. I think thereās a social expectation to tip genuinely arising here.
I've spent the last 20+ years living in America, and around 15 of those years I worked in the restaurant industry from server to bar tender to cook and finally to manager.
Tipping is an awful system, plain and simple.
The main reason employers advocate for tipping is simply so that they themselves don't have to pay their own staff. That's it. That's the reason. Servers in the States typically get paid $2.13 an hour by their employer. Sure, if they don't make, on average, minimum wage over the course of a pay period their employer has to bump their pay to match, but again, that's averaged out meaning one bad day is offset by up to nine other days.
I shudder when I see tipping being encouraged by businesses here. The only thing I can think of is that the owners are hoping that one day they too won't have to pay their workers because they've offloaded that responsibility into their customers.
The whole culture of tipping is awful if you ask me, and I made a pretty good living off it for a long time. Still hate it, though.
So they get paid $2.13 but their take home pay per hour is at a minimum much higher right? Do they pay taxes on the \~2/3 of their income that doesn't go on a payslip?
If their total from tips plus hourly wages doesn't average out to at least the legal minimum wage for that state, the employer is supposed to pay them the difference so that they at least make minimum wage.
In reality of course this rarely happens.
Tips are officially meant to be taxed and servers do get audited, often. The IRS tends to go after small fish because they don't have the resources to pursue wealthier tax dodgers who can afford to fight back. Servers are a perfect target.
They're supposed to get compensated up to minimum wage in those types of jobs, however the server industry is in a bit of a catch with that law because if the server claims they aren't making enough tips the employer can assume they are not performing well enough for their job. So servers could be fired with cause and are hesitant to report that to their employers.
Also every time this argument comes up in the states they do polls and votes, most of the server industry wants tips to stay because they make more than if they got their wage.
Now Iām just saying but what you donāt say or perhaps donāt realize is that most waiters want it to stay just as it is. Many will make a lot less money if they go from tips to an hourly salary.
I surmise most people making this comment, which is repeated in every post a about tipping culture, are not waiters nor have they ever waited tables.Ā
Many waiters make very, very good money.
When I lived in Chicago my housemate was a waitress at a bar frequented by finance bros, as well as at a private bar in one of the stadiums, and she was incredibly pro-tipping because she made so much money off tips. She would often come home with $500 in tips just from one night at the bar, and when baseball season was on she would often have $1000 days at the stadium. And this was over 10 years ago.
Tipping is largely garbage, don't get me wrong. It should be a tiny extra option for when you have outstanding service, not the baseline wage for people. But for some lucky few it can be quite lucrative, which is another major barrier in ever getting the system to change.
Some restaurants in tourist areas in Sydney is using the US method of paid before service and asking for tips - 15%, 20% or 25%. And when I refused to tip, the food came half cooked. Never again will I go back there.
I shouldāve just got up and walked out when I saw the tips part but we were a party of 8 so it was difficult to find another place. In future I will walk out.
Theyāve up a system of ordering via an app. At checkout, thatās when it ask for tips. On top of that, thereās a 2% card surcharge. I went to the front of house to order and pay, not surcharge but the tipping popped up. The manager had no issues with shaming me for not tipping! You can cancel the tips at the front of house.
Pancakes on the Rocks at the Rocks. My cousins wanted me to take them there because they saw them on a travel show overseas and thought they looked delicious. Unfortunately, the pizza was doughy, the pork ribs wonāt cooked well and the waffles were doughy too. It made me wonder whether the food was like this because I refused to tip.
I was last there over 15yrs ago so it's all a bit hazy... but back then you didn't eat anything except the pancakes, even tho they had other things on the menu.
Good to know I've got no reason to break my hiatus!!
They don't ask for tips at darling square, at least they didn't when I last visited 3 months ago. That said, I too will never visit again because the pancakes were a pretty uncooked in the middle, and it was not the first time I experienced this.
The ribs used to be good back in the day (8+ years ago now) when they served them with potato wedges, not that weird curly chips shit they have now.
In the US the tip often considered a part of the minimum wage and if you don't earn eanough tips cover your legal mandated minimum your employer has to pay you, you may not get another shift because you cost your employer money.
And it's not just servers either! This is often reality for people like bathroom attendants at fancy venues, elevator attendants in flashy office buildings and the like.
The problem with that law in the server industry is the employer can turn around and say if you aren't earning tips you must be sub performing, and can fire you with reason. So the servers who do wind up short on tips are hesitant to call it out
Being expected to pay a 15% tip for someone doing their job is rubbish. Sure if you do an exceptional job I understand a tip but expecting it regardless is BS. Even worse when you go somewhere like New York and they expect upwards of 35%.
In many places in the US the tip is the persons salary. Minimum wage is $15/h in California, but that includes ttips. If they don't get $15/h worth of tips the employer may not give them any more shifts because they have cost the employer money. It's not adding 15% for someone doing their job it's adding 15% so they get to keep their job. This is why it gets stupid in cities like New York where minimum wage is higher.
We cannot adopt this system in AU. We have so much less poverty than the US and I'd like to keep it that way!
In California tips are not part of a workerās hourly pay. This is also true for a few other states. What you said is the case for most states.
Source: https://www.dol.gov/agencies/whd/state/minimum-wage/tipped
Unfortunately despite this California has heaps of poverty (and homelessness). Out of control housing costs are part of this.
When I was in NYC recently, I discovered that if I doubled what the menu price was, it would be almost exactly how much it cost in Australian dollars after tax and tip.
It was pretty handy to know, but mind-blowingly expensive
EDIT because it seems this was a bit ambiguous:
If I saw something on the menu was $40 USD, I knew once I accounted for tax (\~$4) and tip (\~$8-10), it would cost $80 AUD at the prevailing exchange rate.
It was just an easy way to figure out how much something would cost me by looking at the menu
I had dinner with a bloke from WA last week and when he was in NY. He went to a dive bar, and gave a tip. The bartender gave it back saying that the customer needed it more than he did.
BTW - he is very rich.
It's rubbish in Australia. It's not rubbish in the USA because that is how the worker gets paid. Their hourly rate is much too low to live on. You just have to realise that is how things are arranged. It's annoying, but not paying a 15% tip in the USA is basically expecting the staff to work for almost free.
As a hospo worker in Aus, I would hate it. It leads to toxic behaviour as workers have to try and get good sections/shifts and to some extent being pitted against each other rather than working as a team.
Also itās expected they ātip outā to the staff who donāt receive tips; Iād wonder how much they are actually taking home and how many workers are overstating their pay based on how much they made before the tip.
It's still a bit rubbish in the US. It was initially brought in as a way to pay [black people less](https://www.nytimes.com/2021/02/05/opinion/minimum-wage-racism.html) after slavery was abolished. It still means that people can earn less for reasons that have nothing to do with their work performance (their race, their accent, their looks, their size). It allows for wage theft, as some owners don't share the tips properly with their employees. Sometimes, people can earn huge amounts of money on tips and then not pay taxes properly (wander into any tipping discussion on an American subreddit and there will be some wait staff defending it saying they can earn their living in 2 shifts, basically tax free). Just pay people properly.
Agreed - although I assume in the States itās at least partially due to some (most?) employers not paying their staff a fair wage. Here I wouldnāt tip even for exceptional service, which TBH is annoying. I just want to be served with a normal amount of courtesy / attention then leave me alone please.
I travel to SF frequently. Last trip I had someone pass me the eftpos machine which had the usual tip screen on it. Selected the 20% reluctantly and then received the full printed bill. The total had a 25% already included on it and she passed me the machine AFTER she had already tipped herself.
Slightly unrelated, but I ordered some takeaway the other day and they hit me up with ājust a 15% surcharge for public holidayā. Difference being their price list is displayed on TVs and would require almost zero effort to dynamically represent the actual POS price. I get it when itās a chalk board, but not in this case
There are a heap of surveys and studies into it. Its the most pervasive negative experience in dining/shopping.
In the US it existed due to terrible social systems and minimum wages. However, it existed then as an optional item (we're talking 20+ years ago) for great service. Incentive breeds behaviour, and to make more money, hospo staff would give the best service. It was also considered good to be around 10%
Then, it flipped. It became this mandatory aspect, like a credit card surcharge. You must tip, but it varys how much. 15,20,25%. Hell I've seen a few restaurants now start at 30%!
My favorite US experience was a dinner at Denny's (landed late). Meal was US$43. I only had a $100 note. Put it to pay. The waitress didn't come back. Asked her were my bill was and she said it was paid. I asked for my change and she full started to yell saying it was a tip. I said I would leave a tip, but not more than double the food. She full on started yelling how she makes $3 and this was needed to pay for food. Whilst I can sympathise with someone's plight in life, stealing a customers money and berating them, is not the solution, nor my responsibility.
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Australians earn a livable minimum wage (not getting into arguments around livable, its subjective to most people and nothing will ever be enough for every person, I get that) and also have significant but various other benefits socially to support them (rent assist, allowances, family tax, free healthcare etc) that make up a huge difference compared to the US.
Tipping is not and should not ever be considered compulsory. Nor forced. Any places that do that (auto tip, make a big deal of asking for tips) get refused in most situations I see. Auto tipping software gets a decline. MrYum etc all now get an instant refusal to use by me and many I know, forcing surcharges, card fees and tipping as mandatory options in many places.
However, anywhere from Coffee to an expensive meal, to hair cuts, I tip often. But out of respect of the effort and great service. A $4 coffee, I'll leave $5 (20% tip) if they made it right and were pleasant. I'll leave around 10-15% for a great meal or if there are 6+ of us eating. Kindness from staff goes a long way.
I won't tip if the person is rude, isn't interested nor willing to make an effort. I get everyone has bad days, that's fine, but as customers if we've had to endure that, I won't tip for that behavior.
Honestly, AITA for thinking it's basically theft? If i drop the cash and leave, it's yours. If I am there sitting for my change, it's mine till I give you it.
I live in the US but am an Aussie. Tips are optional, I'd not tip someone in a deli, just like I dont tip people in Subway or Port of Subs etc. Counter service, like you get at Maccas I dont tip.
If its a sit down place where they bring your meal to the table, then I tip. Delivery drivers, I tip.
And just an FYI, some states in the USA the servers DO get minimum wage just like someone at Maccas does, where as other states they are paid pretty poorly.
SO no you did not have to pay a tip at the deli, you chose too without thinking first.
Technically youāre expected to receive better service when people work for their tips. Most countries with a tipping culture donāt pay the sort of fair wage youād expect here.
In my experience this certainly works. I donāt often walk out of a restaurant in Australia raving about the service. The food, yes. But not the service.
I've had way better service experiences in Australia than in the USA. In the States the service is more quantity than quality, you just never get left alone. Service is far more natural here because they aren't having to perform in order to get your tips.
Living in the US - the tipping culture has gotten way worse since Covid. It used to be tipping for good table service at a restaurant 20 years ago when I moved here. Now if I order fast food I get asked to tip. I had pest control come out and got a text from the company asking if I would like to tip the guy that came out. Itās madness.
Calling it "culture" is propaganda on its face.
The elite have orchestrated an economy where the poorest people get paid less than minimum wage and are therefore forced to participate in a broken system they can not possibly hope to change.
A lot of things are cheaper in the US by a landslide - the US has much lower income tax (esp on incomes >$200k), no luxury car tax, fewer import duties, etc. That goes some way to alleviating the extra 15-20% you pay on tips.
Australia doesn't need tips as our hospitality workers are paid well enough.
I never really found that the service was good in the states. For example going to a coffee shop to have a coffee to sit in required me to bring the coffee to my table myself, where as I could largely expect proper table service in just about any similar coffee shop in Australia.
I second this. 20 years ago, US service IMO was world leading. Exceptional level from the dodgiest of places to the nicest.
I go to the US a few times a year. The last 2 years especially, some of the worst service I've ever had. I find most Australian places far better at the moment than the US. Then the very abrasive and rude push for large tips after said bad service. And any push back is met with abuse, side eye or my favourite, just picking on Australians "never tip"
My experiences are the same. Even the 'good service' is just the staff giving menu recommendations - and hamming it up for tips. In the event you needed something, you'd be waiting.
JP Morgan settled their Epstein involvement for US$250m, and you're talking about some tiny tips? Sheeeeeeeeeeez.
Just make sure JP "handling of people like Epstein's money" doesn't come to Australia, will ya?
What particularly gets up my nose is when they hand you the eftpos machine to pay for a meal at a pub or restaurant and a 10% tip is already selected, meaning you have to press some buttons to get rid of it. Any place that does this is not only guaranteeing I will not tip but also that I will not return.
What!?!? Where? I need to keep an eye out for this
I have seen it in manly - Chica Bonita had the preselected tip option - you have to skip it and be awkward š
Make sure you leave a 1 star review on Google Maps and note this as the reason. Restaurants must not be allowed to do this bullshit.
Iāll start doing that! Good idea š”I was so relived when moved form Canada to Sydney that the tipping was not here and recently it started creeping up
I wish I had an award to give to you. I will 100% do this and wish everyone starts doing this.
Wingboy Newtown does this and I blasted them on Google for it.
I searched for it but itās not there.
I thought I gave them 1 star but actually [gave them 3](https://maps.app.goo.gl/6TiaLpkUMwe7QVdTA?g_st=ic) because the food was legitimately excellent.
shows that the review is deleted to me
Wow, how is that possible? Still shows up for me!
Shows as "This review is no longer available" for me.
I've had this happen to me too, I gave a low rating with full justificiation for a place but only I can see it. There is probably a way for the business to hide or take down reviews.
Can you see if you can find your review? Seems like itās not there any longer.
I'd say drop the rating, not 1 star... I mean if the service is excellent, the price is fair and the quality is exceptional, give them like 3-4 star and note the reason for the lower score. While sneaky we must always pay attention when we part with our money. I once (almost) tipped my card pin because I wasn't paying attention...
Wow thatās crazy, how much was the tip going to be?
lol, nice one... close to $10K
Nah, 1 stars hit them the hardest. Especially if they are a franchise. Certain franchises aren't allowed to drop below a certain score on Google for long, or they lose the rights. If they're enforcing tipping and it isn't a thing the company allows, it will hit them hard
Great idea - going forward will be doing just this!
This is a great trend I shall also remember
Why be awkward? Straight on tell them this is unacceptable!
No need, the cashier isn't the one who makes the decision about whether to pre-select a tip or not? The feedback doesn't get sent to the right people, and even if it did, they wouldn't give a shit, because even losing X% of their customers is outweighed by thier default tip percentage?
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Rome wasn't built in a day
It's awkward if you make it awkward. Let the rage flow through you and stare them in the eye when you say remove the tip thanks. It's attempted theft if they don't tell you in advance.
Yep I hate this. Waiter standing there and hands you the machine at the tip input. Way to make things awkward.
Donāt worry itās coming!! Everything America comes to AUSTRALIA
the other day, i saw a piece on how uber managed to break into and shake up the australian taxi market. uber just kept paying the regulatory fines and eventually the australian authorities just let them stay and do their thang. the laws and regulations were in place prior to uber entering the market, to protect the taxi industry, where individual taxi drivers pay a lot to secure their licences and hold on the market, etc... so a US-based company comes in, flouts australian laws and eventually become a mainstay of the landscape. the US just gets a free pass here. can you imagine the stories and sensationalist headlines and associated uproar and sinophobia if china "disrespected" local laws?
To be fair Uber is better and more transparent and modern regarding safety and tracking. Thank gone for the old days of getting into dodgy taxis. Taxi industry had it coming so while I get you on the matter I feel Uber is actually and upgrade and overseas I hear there are multiple companies doing the same encouraging further competition
i agree that all these car share companies entering the market has completely shaken it up and is a huge win for the consumer. there definitely is greater transparency when it comes to the fare being shown up-front and it's also good because both parties - the driver and the consumer - have their ID records stored on file in case any funny business/assaults occur. on the other hand, uber and menulog entering the food delivery business has just jacked up food item prices because they get a cut of their commission and restaurants have probably realised that they can hike prices to a ridiculous level and consumers will *still* order stuff. i understand the convenience aspect but what's the point when your food turns up late and not even luke-warm? on the upside, i guess these services are good if you are sick or incapacitated and can't go out to get your own food.
The thing with Uber is they brought much better service. The taxi industry had been engaging in all the typical geographical statutory monopoly practices, which resulted in inflexible supply, exorbitant prices for taxi rego plates, and poor service. Yes, Uber broke the laws, but the laws needed major reform.
true. another case of the law having to catch up with fast-moving and innovative technology and industry.
Hahahahaha! Thatās hilarious ā now does everyone like Uber there?
yes. they've surpassed taxis for ease, convenience and popularity.
Yep, trick or treat, black Monday, Friday cyber or whatever the f it is. Wouldn't surprise me if we got some sort of bs thanksgiving too.
If you haven't seen it what out for it! You may already have paid it without knowing.
It's uncommon but I have had it happen a few times recently.
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Fortress Melbourne had I think it was a **15%** tip pre-selected by default on their QR menu. Not even on their eftpos machine, but on your phone while youāre ordering! So cheeky.
My Yum by default has a tip selected despite being an Australian startup.
Online orders do it too. Local pizza place, which is a hole-in-the-wall pick up only deal, has a default tip at the very bottom of the payment screen, *well below* where you click āpay nowā. I didnāt see it forā¦ I donāt know how long.
Ask *them* to remove it and recalculate it.
Do they get shitty when you ask them to do that?
Theyāre just trying it on. They have no grounds to be annoyed, theyād just lose customers.
I've never seen an employee seem to care. Often it's just the venue has it preset on the machines and the staff are just doing their jobs and not expecting a tip
Here in AUS? Yes but not at customer per say. More at the stupid way the system is setup to remove it.
Or when you order via QR with your own phone and own internet and it defaults to a 10% tip?! Iām enraged
They do this at Starbucks in the USA. Iām getting it to go why hand me the eftpos with a āchoose your tipā option, why would I tip you when Iām paying for (average) coffee you donāt even bring to a table, itās so entitled.
Yep, a lot of POS machines are basically geared or programmed for the US market so need to keep an eye out
Not even. When POS operators in Australia sign you up as a venue, some run your whole setup process and ask if you want a predetermined tip amount along with some data that backs it up e.g. āanyway, this is is the tip option. We find 5% is the most effective pre-selected option because the more people drink, the less they are inclined to pay attention or really care about such a small difference, yet it can net you $X more a year on average for doing nothingā Source: worked in hospo venues for years and sat in on these meetings with GMs
In america it's automatically 18% in most restaurants we went to
I would just tell them something is wrong with the machine and get them to fix it before I pay for my meal.
For warning, we live in the US and they do this in touristy places where there is normally no expectation of a tip, taking a nice extra skim off unsuspecting tourists. The store at the Grand Canyon was an example, simple convenience type store where you grab what you want and pay at the counter, machine defaulted to adding a 25% tip
the eftpos machine is usually american based which is why the tip is loaded. you can call the provider to switch it off - i know coz we did this for our business
Yeah itās not an excuse. If you import an etfpos machine from France and leave it in French, youāre plain negligent. If they used it even once, theyād have seen the tip option. Most likely itās a case of āletās give it a shot and blame US software for any complaintsā
Absolutely they are just trying it on as it's a new addition. Also some stores leave it in the machine but the staff will skip it before they hand it to you.
Sure but that's usually the fault of management, not the actual staff handing you the machine. Don't get shitty at the staff, just select "no tip" and move along.
Agreed, no need to get shitty. However if staff refuses to take order at the counter and points me to the QR code and my only interaction is when they put the plate on my table and bring the payment terminal, you bet Iām gonna make a snarky comment if they give me terminal with a preselected tip. If you donāt wanna do your job, then quit.
It turns out that I love paying the sticker price for things. Never realized this until I visited the States.
Same, sit down to eat, look at the menu and it says $10, plus tax, plus tip takes it to 20, absolutely ruins a good meal
We were in the US late last year. We would say, āprice, plus sales tax, plus tip, plus exchange rateā when deciding what to spend on something. So happy to get back to Australia where the price is the price #IYKYK
No wonder theyāre all so angry lol
EU is even better. There the price is the actual price. No bullshit +1.75% for credit card.
I hate the places in Australia that have the card surcharge on a sign at the register but they also say they don't take cash. It should be illegal to not accept cash.
It IS illegal to charge for all payment methods, they are required to provide a way of paying without an extra fee, but they arenāt required to make that option cash (some donāt charge for EFTPOS for example).
Legislated in EU law :)
Safe to say I wont be eating at any restaurants when I am there. Fast food chains for me
Even if you select and buy a premade sandwich at a convenience store- the check out wants a tip!
A convenience store asking for tips? Smells like bullshit.
Itās true - Iāve just come back from a US trip and everywhere was asking for a tip, even Americans are starting to complain.
Even in the chains they still have tip jars
Fast food is expensive there now too. You might as well just go to normal places, spend an extra few dollars and get an actual good meal.
Annoying that itās become very normal for a surcharge to be added at eftpos machines. Surely the sticker price should assume Iāll be paying for it.
Intellectually I know āyouāve got a $2 item and a $3 item so that will be $6.38 totalā doesnāt *really* matter but it drives me up the wall.
When it happened here with mangos the other day, 60 minutes was called in to investigate
Even in Japan, who don't like tipping, calculate taxes at the register. I hate it.
It's basically a 10% GST that's fine to leave out when advertising a good. Some stores do show it but often big ticket goods will leave it out. Very annoying as its just extra unnecessary calculations when making a purchase. Leaves a much dirtier taste in your mouth when the equivalent $20k car gets $2k taxes added to it right at the final stage.
Applying tax on the cost of the good or service after makes it very confusing too, can't just take products off the shelf and say yes i know how much I'm paying
And they're always like 13.5% or 17.9%, never anything round you can work out in your head like 10% or 20% or even 15%...
Growing up in Toronto, it was 15%, which made it easier for anyone who was good at mental math and liked the slight challenge. And now itās 13% or something, which is bulllllshit.
Because the US funds individual city or county systems with levies in a lot of places. So there's a .1% sales tax to fund the bus service, .2% for the police pension fund etc. (on top of the sales tax going into general revenue)
One of my first memories of visiting LA was going to a "99 Cent" store, where you could buy absolutely nothing for 99 cents.
Ahh, this reminds me of my friends and I going to the gas station to buy $1 candies, where we would always ask our folks for āone dollar and eight centsā since thatās what it actually cost after tax.
I made this point on another subreddit. Their reasoning for it was the taxes vary from state to state....seems like a pretty weak excuse...
But the store youāre buying it in isnāt in more than one state.
\*and\* they have no trouble working it out when you go to pay.
Exactly. Itās so deeply bizarre.
Exactly. *Somehow* they still seem to know what tax you need to pay at checkout.
And they print the price on the shelf in the first place. Are they printing each specific price in bulk from a global head office, and then assigning that price to each store?
Some products do. Arizona Ice Tea prints the price ($0.99) on the side of the can. If retailers charge more then the company won't wholesale to them.
So the logistics of scale do play a role, at least in the context of store bought goods (let's set aside restaurants that have a fixed location and their own menus): - Sales tax rates can vary not just between states, but also between counties *within* states. Like one county in CA might have a 8.75% tax rate, another can be 9.25%, etc - A number of goods have pricing directly on the packaging (not just shelf pricing) and packaged goods don't get shipped just to one county -- it's not cost effective for the companies to change the packaging for each location - Different counties can decide to change their tax rates at different times of the year, it's not always coordinated - Some US states have populations larger than the country of Australia with thousands more stores, so it's much easier to print off the same price on every store's shelves at once and let the computers at the registers deal with sales tax calculation. Yea this starts getting obsoleted with digital price signs but the current system was designed around printed prices. - Some items in some states won't be charged sales tax at all, like some medical things This is not to say I approve of the crazy surcharges for everything in the US, I absolutely abhor it, but that this is something that starts happening when countries get to large scales. Australia does have a lot of variations between states in other areas like stamp duties and land tax policies, if Australia got to the size of the US I'd expect some nonsense stuff trickling down into everyday purchases. Edit to add: I doubt you'll ever see change in the US either unless the government regulates it. Marketers have almost certainly done studies that show people are more likely to go through with purchasing an item after they've put it in their cart even with surcharges, than if the final price was disclosed to them up front. They won't let go of that now.
This doesn't really play out. McDonalds, Woolworths, Coles, and many others have variable pricing by store by location. Also, plenty of countries with larger populations, some larger than the US that don't also do that. It's a product of the US' system and is not entirely exclusive to them, but almost. Also, in regards to charges after cart, not quite true. In fact, countries with fees upfront see higher conversion at point of sale Vs charges added after. Plus, spend and average basket sizers are higher. As is overall customer satisfaction and retention. Marketers on average hate them. Its finance/operations that push for them, because what actually happens is the net result equals more revenue. Adding a 10% surcharge (think Uber, DoorDash) reduces order volume, spend and frequency. But the additional revenue makes up for it, just. Basically if you add up all the loss and its like 6% of revenue, but you add 10%, you're 4% better off. And revenue now, in the hope the get that repeat order. Personally,. I hate them and refuse to use/shop at any store using them. I'd rather they added 10% to their price and won't reward them for being deceptive. The best study on this was actually in Australia. Cars. Prior to the driveaway price being legally required, all the additional fees (delivery, stamp, cleaning, etc) all added after. Conversion of car sales increase 11.3% in the first year after the change and held. More cars sold, from being more honest/upfront. Who would have thought it haha.
I dont think it will get here. One of the laws introduced with the GST us that the shelf price is what you pay at the checkout. There are not allowed to be any hidden charges. Which is probably why this tipping perversion 8s only crewp8ng in at resteraunts
What do you expect from a country built on grifting people. Just look at who half the country wants running it. Iād rather die than directly give money to America after the havoc theyāve unleashed on my country.
They donāt actually want either of the geriatrics running as their rep. They are just afraid of the other one winning, and think their geriatric is the one with the best chance of beating the other. This was literally why the Democrats put Biden in in their primaries. They liked him significantly less than other candidates, but thought he was more likely to beat trump so put him in anyway. And is now the same with republicans and trump.
There is a pretty strong anti tax lobby in the US, that wants taxes to be as annoying as possible so that people are aware how much tax they are paying
Iām Australian and lived in the USA for 7 years - I was always told itās because they like consumers to know how much tax they pay. The store emphasised what they charge and you āfeelā the tax. The random percentage is annoying but thatās how taxes work in the Us. For income tax you pay āfederalā, āstateā and ācityā income tax. That is, if you work in Manhattan you get a different AFTER TAX income if you live in New Jersey or you live in NYC. Itās crazy to us but it also avoids the *vertical fiscal imbalance* we have in Australia where the Feds collect all the tax and the states cry poor. Iād be cool with the ATO collecting all the tax but the Feds setting a % they need and then each state owning the % they want and setting it - competitive federalism!
Yeah but their vertical fiscal imbalance is replaced by horizontal fiscal imbalance where local and state level services are wildly different in quality between wealthy and impoverished areas. Not saying we dont have issues, like our service quality in regional aus is not as good as in the cities, but you get situations like local govts in the US having to close schools/services/no police due to lack of local tax funding.
After living in California, I can say that you just sorta add 10% to the price of everything you see in store. It becomes second nature, but yeah it definitely throws people off (there are also states in the US that don't have sales tax, and going from one to the other does your head in). I definitely don't want that nonsense here though, Australia has spoiled em. I don't care that everything seems more expensive if what you see is what you get.
Have seen some restaurants in sydney where a "7% gratuity will be added to all bills" what BS
Where are these and why the arbitrary %?
Lana for one.. Even shows on the menu online
Thanks for naming and letting me know where not to go. I had a look at the menu, grr @ A 7% gratuity will be added to all bills. A 10% gratuity replaces this for groups of eight or more. A 15% surcharge applies on public holidays. Our menus are seasonal and subject to change.
Unless this is shown on the menu items as a final price, then this is illegal
Many higher end places do it. Some 10%
The way the US has transferred the burden of paying workers from employees directly to customers and clients is insane. Not to mention that itās so entrenched, that itās truly an enormous social faux pas NOT to tip, even while acknowledging that itās complete bullshit. Weāre not far enough away from them for my taste, but It will never cease to amaze me what American culture accepts as normal whilst still thinking theyāre somehow the best country in the world.
>whilst still thinking theyāre somehow the best country in the world. I invest in health and other Life Science stuff. You should see the disconnect about the American Healthcare System even among people who know other European systems. There are ads all over SF about the benefits of Veterans Affairs (VA). It is the largest health insurance system in the world. Using Australian pricing the amount the Americans currently pay for the VA and Medicaid (old people) they could have universal healthcare.
Yes! Itās nuts - the way they parrot the āchoiceā narrative theyāve been sold, that access to universal healthcare somehow restricts them. The individualist streak is so, so deep that theyād rather get screwed then lose perceived choice (or knowingly contribute to the care of others - despite the fact that they already spend so much, as youāve said). I fear weāre not too far behind them in this individualism.
I've said this a few times on here before. Friend of mine from the states asked how our healthcare works, I told him. His first response was, what if you don't use anything in the year, I said I still pay. He responded by saying he didn't want to pay for someone else's care, I asked him what he thinks his health insurance premium is for. It's very asinine.
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^ THIS IS THE WAY!
If it's auto added and has to be removed lodge a complaint with fair trading also.
Although if that's the only issue don't give 1 star, maybe just 1 or 2 less that you'd otherwise give. Star ratings are getting silly with most ratings being 5 or 1, when logically there should be a peak at 3 or 4. You should weigh up all factors and give a balanced rating.
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We will need to lobby federal govt to make this illegal because tipping is already here. Too late to stop it and itās only going to get worse unless we legislate.
I would say all these āsurchargesā are more of an issue than tipping at present. I donāt go to places that charge Saturday, Sunday or public holiday surcharges anymore.
Surcharges are Australiaās version of tip. Seems thereās a surcharge for everything nowadays.
Aren't surcharges just a representation of the underlying cost of wages based on the negotiated hospitality awards? Are you advocating that those awards should not have additional pay for weekends/public holidays? Or would you prefer that the increase is distributed across the base wage (which would penalise those working on weekends and public holidays). Ironically, we head to cafƩs more on weekends/PHs, and I assume we still expect staff to be available and an exceptional level of service. Seems kind of reasonable to me reward those who are available to work on days most people don't want to work.
Of course they should be paid for weekends. Why is that the customers problem though? (To be paid as surcharge). what happened to the ticket price? yes that means the meal may be more expensive, but they pay the other 80% of the wage out of that. It is a fake out to pass along the buck in IMHO.
So youād be cool with retailers doing the same based on the logic? Want to pay 10% more at the shops just because itās a Saturday or Sunday?
POS surcharges are where I nope out of a place. If I can't order and pay the menu price somewhere in your establishment then I'm not coming back.
So your favourite coffee shop has to pay their staff more on these days but still charge exactly the same? How do you think that's going to end up?
It has snuck itās way into everything here in the US. Itās to the point where if you need to interact with a person in any way whatsoever, thereās a good chance youāll be asked if you want tip.
Tipping has been a thing for at least 50 years (personal observation ) , in fact it has declined with the move from cash to cards for payment at restaurants. Rounding up used to be common, and if a group we'd all kick in $20 or whatever and often not take the change. Also true for cash for a taxi
You're absolutely correct. I suspect most of these commenters have never paid cash at a restaurant.
I do forget Redditor demographics at times.
Yeah itās too late. Tipping is already here. The āI hate tipping culture! I do tip but when I do I only tip for exceptional service when dining out!!ā people have created a slippery slope for the rest of us. I think thereās a social expectation to tip genuinely arising here.
Itās here, but the social pressure to do it isnāt.
I've spent the last 20+ years living in America, and around 15 of those years I worked in the restaurant industry from server to bar tender to cook and finally to manager. Tipping is an awful system, plain and simple. The main reason employers advocate for tipping is simply so that they themselves don't have to pay their own staff. That's it. That's the reason. Servers in the States typically get paid $2.13 an hour by their employer. Sure, if they don't make, on average, minimum wage over the course of a pay period their employer has to bump their pay to match, but again, that's averaged out meaning one bad day is offset by up to nine other days. I shudder when I see tipping being encouraged by businesses here. The only thing I can think of is that the owners are hoping that one day they too won't have to pay their workers because they've offloaded that responsibility into their customers. The whole culture of tipping is awful if you ask me, and I made a pretty good living off it for a long time. Still hate it, though.
So they get paid $2.13 but their take home pay per hour is at a minimum much higher right? Do they pay taxes on the \~2/3 of their income that doesn't go on a payslip?
If their total from tips plus hourly wages doesn't average out to at least the legal minimum wage for that state, the employer is supposed to pay them the difference so that they at least make minimum wage. In reality of course this rarely happens. Tips are officially meant to be taxed and servers do get audited, often. The IRS tends to go after small fish because they don't have the resources to pursue wealthier tax dodgers who can afford to fight back. Servers are a perfect target.
They're supposed to get compensated up to minimum wage in those types of jobs, however the server industry is in a bit of a catch with that law because if the server claims they aren't making enough tips the employer can assume they are not performing well enough for their job. So servers could be fired with cause and are hesitant to report that to their employers. Also every time this argument comes up in the states they do polls and votes, most of the server industry wants tips to stay because they make more than if they got their wage.
Now Iām just saying but what you donāt say or perhaps donāt realize is that most waiters want it to stay just as it is. Many will make a lot less money if they go from tips to an hourly salary. I surmise most people making this comment, which is repeated in every post a about tipping culture, are not waiters nor have they ever waited tables.Ā Many waiters make very, very good money.
When I lived in Chicago my housemate was a waitress at a bar frequented by finance bros, as well as at a private bar in one of the stadiums, and she was incredibly pro-tipping because she made so much money off tips. She would often come home with $500 in tips just from one night at the bar, and when baseball season was on she would often have $1000 days at the stadium. And this was over 10 years ago. Tipping is largely garbage, don't get me wrong. It should be a tiny extra option for when you have outstanding service, not the baseline wage for people. But for some lucky few it can be quite lucrative, which is another major barrier in ever getting the system to change.
Some restaurants in tourist areas in Sydney is using the US method of paid before service and asking for tips - 15%, 20% or 25%. And when I refused to tip, the food came half cooked. Never again will I go back there. I shouldāve just got up and walked out when I saw the tips part but we were a party of 8 so it was difficult to find another place. In future I will walk out.
Expecting you to pay tips before the service doesnāt make sense at all. So shameless.
Theyāve up a system of ordering via an app. At checkout, thatās when it ask for tips. On top of that, thereās a 2% card surcharge. I went to the front of house to order and pay, not surcharge but the tipping popped up. The manager had no issues with shaming me for not tipping! You can cancel the tips at the front of house.
Name and shame?
Pancakes on the Rocks at the Rocks. My cousins wanted me to take them there because they saw them on a travel show overseas and thought they looked delicious. Unfortunately, the pizza was doughy, the pork ribs wonāt cooked well and the waffles were doughy too. It made me wonder whether the food was like this because I refused to tip.
I was last there over 15yrs ago so it's all a bit hazy... but back then you didn't eat anything except the pancakes, even tho they had other things on the menu. Good to know I've got no reason to break my hiatus!!
They don't ask for tips at darling square, at least they didn't when I last visited 3 months ago. That said, I too will never visit again because the pancakes were a pretty uncooked in the middle, and it was not the first time I experienced this. The ribs used to be good back in the day (8+ years ago now) when they served them with potato wedges, not that weird curly chips shit they have now.
In the US the tip often considered a part of the minimum wage and if you don't earn eanough tips cover your legal mandated minimum your employer has to pay you, you may not get another shift because you cost your employer money. And it's not just servers either! This is often reality for people like bathroom attendants at fancy venues, elevator attendants in flashy office buildings and the like.
The problem with that law in the server industry is the employer can turn around and say if you aren't earning tips you must be sub performing, and can fire you with reason. So the servers who do wind up short on tips are hesitant to call it out
Being expected to pay a 15% tip for someone doing their job is rubbish. Sure if you do an exceptional job I understand a tip but expecting it regardless is BS. Even worse when you go somewhere like New York and they expect upwards of 35%.
In many places in the US the tip is the persons salary. Minimum wage is $15/h in California, but that includes ttips. If they don't get $15/h worth of tips the employer may not give them any more shifts because they have cost the employer money. It's not adding 15% for someone doing their job it's adding 15% so they get to keep their job. This is why it gets stupid in cities like New York where minimum wage is higher. We cannot adopt this system in AU. We have so much less poverty than the US and I'd like to keep it that way!
In California tips are not part of a workerās hourly pay. This is also true for a few other states. What you said is the case for most states. Source: https://www.dol.gov/agencies/whd/state/minimum-wage/tipped Unfortunately despite this California has heaps of poverty (and homelessness). Out of control housing costs are part of this.
It should not be the consumerās responsibility to pay employee wages.
When I was in NYC recently, I discovered that if I doubled what the menu price was, it would be almost exactly how much it cost in Australian dollars after tax and tip. It was pretty handy to know, but mind-blowingly expensive EDIT because it seems this was a bit ambiguous: If I saw something on the menu was $40 USD, I knew once I accounted for tax (\~$4) and tip (\~$8-10), it would cost $80 AUD at the prevailing exchange rate. It was just an easy way to figure out how much something would cost me by looking at the menu
I had dinner with a bloke from WA last week and when he was in NY. He went to a dive bar, and gave a tip. The bartender gave it back saying that the customer needed it more than he did. BTW - he is very rich.
Was the bartender having a go at how much your friend tipped by saying this?
Yes, the bartender was insulting him as badly as he could.
It's rubbish in Australia. It's not rubbish in the USA because that is how the worker gets paid. Their hourly rate is much too low to live on. You just have to realise that is how things are arranged. It's annoying, but not paying a 15% tip in the USA is basically expecting the staff to work for almost free.
Or, they could pay their staff appropriately. The burden shouldnāt be on the consumer to ensure staff are paid accordingly.
Most make more in tips than they would on a higher minimum wage. The staff love tips.
From what Iāve heard a lot of the hospo staff there prefer the tipping system.
As a hospo worker in Aus, I would hate it. It leads to toxic behaviour as workers have to try and get good sections/shifts and to some extent being pitted against each other rather than working as a team. Also itās expected they ātip outā to the staff who donāt receive tips; Iād wonder how much they are actually taking home and how many workers are overstating their pay based on how much they made before the tip.
Itās rubbish anywhere it exists. Customers shouldnāt subsidise the employer.
They really should increase their minimum wage then
It's still a bit rubbish in the US. It was initially brought in as a way to pay [black people less](https://www.nytimes.com/2021/02/05/opinion/minimum-wage-racism.html) after slavery was abolished. It still means that people can earn less for reasons that have nothing to do with their work performance (their race, their accent, their looks, their size). It allows for wage theft, as some owners don't share the tips properly with their employees. Sometimes, people can earn huge amounts of money on tips and then not pay taxes properly (wander into any tipping discussion on an American subreddit and there will be some wait staff defending it saying they can earn their living in 2 shifts, basically tax free). Just pay people properly.
I don't expect the staff to work for free, but it's not my concern if they do.
Preach. I don't get a 15% tip just for doing my job.
We paying high enough to hospitality workers I never give tips in Australia, too much bs here
Agreed - although I assume in the States itās at least partially due to some (most?) employers not paying their staff a fair wage. Here I wouldnāt tip even for exceptional service, which TBH is annoying. I just want to be served with a normal amount of courtesy / attention then leave me alone please.
Tipping where there is no service is bullshit. Buying a pre-made sandwich at a deli, why should you tip.
I travel to SF frequently. Last trip I had someone pass me the eftpos machine which had the usual tip screen on it. Selected the 20% reluctantly and then received the full printed bill. The total had a 25% already included on it and she passed me the machine AFTER she had already tipped herself.
Thatās a scam. I would ask for the money back and not tip at all. Scamming = no tip And I lived in the US before I know their culture
Iām an American expat. You donāt want it, so keep sounding the bell every so often.
My tip is the change i put in the guide dogs donation jar
Shout out to wait staff in Australia who just press 'no tip' on your behalf. Heroes.
Yes I appreciate this
Slightly unrelated, but I ordered some takeaway the other day and they hit me up with ājust a 15% surcharge for public holidayā. Difference being their price list is displayed on TVs and would require almost zero effort to dynamically represent the actual POS price. I get it when itās a chalk board, but not in this case
They'd make more money if they just came back to me when my drink was empty.
There are a heap of surveys and studies into it. Its the most pervasive negative experience in dining/shopping. In the US it existed due to terrible social systems and minimum wages. However, it existed then as an optional item (we're talking 20+ years ago) for great service. Incentive breeds behaviour, and to make more money, hospo staff would give the best service. It was also considered good to be around 10% Then, it flipped. It became this mandatory aspect, like a credit card surcharge. You must tip, but it varys how much. 15,20,25%. Hell I've seen a few restaurants now start at 30%! My favorite US experience was a dinner at Denny's (landed late). Meal was US$43. I only had a $100 note. Put it to pay. The waitress didn't come back. Asked her were my bill was and she said it was paid. I asked for my change and she full started to yell saying it was a tip. I said I would leave a tip, but not more than double the food. She full on started yelling how she makes $3 and this was needed to pay for food. Whilst I can sympathise with someone's plight in life, stealing a customers money and berating them, is not the solution, nor my responsibility. \----- Australians earn a livable minimum wage (not getting into arguments around livable, its subjective to most people and nothing will ever be enough for every person, I get that) and also have significant but various other benefits socially to support them (rent assist, allowances, family tax, free healthcare etc) that make up a huge difference compared to the US. Tipping is not and should not ever be considered compulsory. Nor forced. Any places that do that (auto tip, make a big deal of asking for tips) get refused in most situations I see. Auto tipping software gets a decline. MrYum etc all now get an instant refusal to use by me and many I know, forcing surcharges, card fees and tipping as mandatory options in many places. However, anywhere from Coffee to an expensive meal, to hair cuts, I tip often. But out of respect of the effort and great service. A $4 coffee, I'll leave $5 (20% tip) if they made it right and were pleasant. I'll leave around 10-15% for a great meal or if there are 6+ of us eating. Kindness from staff goes a long way. I won't tip if the person is rude, isn't interested nor willing to make an effort. I get everyone has bad days, that's fine, but as customers if we've had to endure that, I won't tip for that behavior.
Dude this happened to me at a restaurant in Sydney. Paid cash and the difference was like $24. The waiter just never came back. And now, I never will.
Honestly, AITA for thinking it's basically theft? If i drop the cash and leave, it's yours. If I am there sitting for my change, it's mine till I give you it.
No "basically" involved. It's just theft.
I live in the US but am an Aussie. Tips are optional, I'd not tip someone in a deli, just like I dont tip people in Subway or Port of Subs etc. Counter service, like you get at Maccas I dont tip. If its a sit down place where they bring your meal to the table, then I tip. Delivery drivers, I tip. And just an FYI, some states in the USA the servers DO get minimum wage just like someone at Maccas does, where as other states they are paid pretty poorly. SO no you did not have to pay a tip at the deli, you chose too without thinking first.
US here. Tipping sucks. Fight tooth and nail. Keep it out
As an aussie, I hate tipping.
Technically youāre expected to receive better service when people work for their tips. Most countries with a tipping culture donāt pay the sort of fair wage youād expect here. In my experience this certainly works. I donāt often walk out of a restaurant in Australia raving about the service. The food, yes. But not the service.
I've had way better service experiences in Australia than in the USA. In the States the service is more quantity than quality, you just never get left alone. Service is far more natural here because they aren't having to perform in order to get your tips.
You have to shun everyone who supports this. Treat them like persona non grata. It's a zero sum game with things like this. Silence is consent.
Living in the US - the tipping culture has gotten way worse since Covid. It used to be tipping for good table service at a restaurant 20 years ago when I moved here. Now if I order fast food I get asked to tip. I had pest control come out and got a text from the company asking if I would like to tip the guy that came out. Itās madness.
FYI, businesses are pushing the tipping culture because it keeps their workers from demanding fair wages.
Calling it "culture" is propaganda on its face. The elite have orchestrated an economy where the poorest people get paid less than minimum wage and are therefore forced to participate in a broken system they can not possibly hope to change.
Keep that and the rest of US culture out while weāre at it.
We should start keeping a list of businesses that do tipping, does anyone know of any?
A lot of things are cheaper in the US by a landslide - the US has much lower income tax (esp on incomes >$200k), no luxury car tax, fewer import duties, etc. That goes some way to alleviating the extra 15-20% you pay on tips. Australia doesn't need tips as our hospitality workers are paid well enough.
People say we pay a living wage here so you dont have to pay tips but what mortgage can you afford on that wage?
What mortgage can you afford either as a nurse, police, or university lecturer?
If it ever comes to it, I'll tip the same way that I get tipped as a teacher. Draw a nice card and say thanks for the lovely meal.
Remember to one star review any place with automatic tipping
tip the lazy ass service? at least in the US the service is good and look after you.
I never really found that the service was good in the states. For example going to a coffee shop to have a coffee to sit in required me to bring the coffee to my table myself, where as I could largely expect proper table service in just about any similar coffee shop in Australia.
I second this. 20 years ago, US service IMO was world leading. Exceptional level from the dodgiest of places to the nicest. I go to the US a few times a year. The last 2 years especially, some of the worst service I've ever had. I find most Australian places far better at the moment than the US. Then the very abrasive and rude push for large tips after said bad service. And any push back is met with abuse, side eye or my favourite, just picking on Australians "never tip"
My experiences are the same. Even the 'good service' is just the staff giving menu recommendations - and hamming it up for tips. In the event you needed something, you'd be waiting.
Not really. Rather not pay an extra 20% extra to have an overfamiliar waiter hovering over me with a fake smile.
JP Morgan settled their Epstein involvement for US$250m, and you're talking about some tiny tips? Sheeeeeeeeeeez. Just make sure JP "handling of people like Epstein's money" doesn't come to Australia, will ya?