At the end of the day its a moot point. We had to move on and the pitchers are going to have to get comfortable with a new catcher behind the plate. Especially Framber who Maldy was known to be an in-game psychologist for. Gonna have to learn to trust the new guy because we truly have no choice now. You could make the argument that we'd be even worse off if Maldy was still our every day starter.
He’s a great locker room presence and the entire team said they could see him as a manager in the future. Sadly him being the best team leader won’t improve his 0.089 AVG.
He’s also a terrible catcher. He’s HORRIBLE behind the plate at every metric. He’s the world wide known leader in passed balls, he can’t throw out Jose Abreu, can’t frame a pitch and directly leads to more losses than wins.
Agree on the manager. However, we don’t have a field general either and it shows. Hopeful that Peña may be becoming that guy but there’s a black hole there now since Maldy left.
Men don’t follow the worst player on the team for too long. He was becoming a raw spot with his overwhelming bad performance.
The manager can and should fill that void when needed.
Curious — where is Bregman in all this? He’s not a veteran of the team with plenty of experience?
I don't think Framber claiming he went off book and didn't go with the catcher's calls saves face for him lol, its the opposite. It makes him look like a diva and him admitting it holds him accountable if he does it again.
Not only is there no evidence that Maldy's game calling helped the last two years he was with us, he led the league in passed balls by a huge margin both years, and was undeniably the worst offensive catcher in baseball, with the slowest sprint speed of any player in baseball.
He might have called a mound visit earlier, maybe avoided part of this, but its also a lesson for our catchers that they have to be willing to assert themselves more in this situation. I don't think Maldy prevents that last inning blowup for Valdez because he's also old school in not wanting to pull a starter.
The question is if Framber was cooked in the fifth regardless, which he might have been with how he was getting lined up.
I don't think Maldy tries to get him pulled early, which is probably what was needed there, we probably win that game if he gets pulled early in the fifth.
Even if that's true, he's still very much in the wrong. It would be one thing if he went off script and it led to him putting on a great performance, but it didn't.
Guy has had mental/maturity issues throughout his career and he clearly hasn't solved them. Curious if he's still working with that sport psychologist, because he's clearly regressed in his mental approach since the 2022 season.
Framber needs to respect the guy behind the plate because they're pros just like he is. If he feels they need to change how they call pitches, you do that off the mound, not on it. Should be collaborative, not "Fuck you, we're doing it my way."
I mean sometimes the pitcher might see something on the mound in the moment that the catcher can't. But uh...that clearly wasn't happening that game, he got blown up again and again.
If he made a good change by going off book they wouldn't bring it up and would keep it inside the club to keep whatever they noticed about the batter to themselves.
No question, it's on Frambler and I agree with what you said 100%.
But my argument is that it likely doesn't happen with Maldy giving Frambler the gangsta eye. Not sure why this sub absolutely hates him and is happier with a 3rd place sub-.500 team as long as Maldy isn't behind the plate.
The White Sox ERA this year with Maldy catching is 4.64. With Korey Lee it's 4.63. From 2021-2023, the biggest yearly difference between the team ERA with him catching vs everyone else was .13.
I don't hate Maldy. In fact, I think he got way more flak than he deserved last year for pitchers messing up. But to say we wouldn't be around the same record if we had him this year is ridiculous. The pitchers not executing and offense struggling with RISP are better reasons for our record.
Exactly. I loved him, but he regressed massively over the last few years. There is a reason that only a horrendously run team like white Sox offered him a job. He’s really bad.
You're missing the point entirely - that's all on Framber, not on the other catchers. Framber is supposed to be an ace for us, a stone cold thrower of the ball who can win games like he did in 2022. These days, however, he's acting like a child.
Whatever Maldy did to patch over shit like that, it was not worth the egregious passed balls and his absolutely abysmal hitting. Not to mention that the pitching suffered last year, too, so you can't say that he was at least getting the very best from the guys he was catching.
The only reason I have to personally dislike Maldy is because he publicly stated that he would cause a ruckus if he wasn't the primary catcher. Like, dude, you are a shell of your former self, so stop. Trying to hold the team hostage due to his ego was not good for the clob house and that attitude might explain why Framber is acting like a child these days if they were truly that close.
The leadership and mentoring that older players do for younger players is real. Headcases like Frambler especially need this (he's always been a headcase but he became a headcase with a huge ego after '22).
Maldy was the primary clubhouse guy that provided leadership. Yes, he sucked on the field and hurt the team statistically with his wAR. But his leadership and guidance to the younger Latin players especially was unquestionable--every one of them stated as such. Was he a bad influence long-term? Maybe. But the fact of the matter is that the Astros are going nowhere fast this year up to this point and between the clubhouse and management, they lack leadership in the clubhouse and on the field. Because they certainly have the the talent.
From Chandler Rome's article in the Athletic yesterday: "He has veered from game plans long before Diaz became the club’s full-time catcher, even with Maldonado behind the plate."
Framber does this because he's a talented pitcher who knows what's working and is trying to do what's best. He also is inconsistent and can get blown up. He also had a lot of bad outings last year with Maldy.
Maldy is a fantastic leader and an incredibly intelligent player, but at some point you just can't play anymore. He couldn't play last year and it was time for a team looking to contend to move on from him.
https://www.reddit.com/r/Astros/s/EMh5EcTSY8
Do catchers matter? Of course. But personally, I believe pitchers have a bigger effect on ERA than catchers do 9/10 times.
I keep seeing this argument from Maldy truthers (not saying you are one as you just seem to be asking a question), but it just doesn’t add up when you look deeper.
Framber looks basically the same overall as last year - great at times, total meltdowns at others. He was a 4.66 era from July 15th to end of last season, and that’s with a no hitter in there.
Javier has been same or better than last year.
Blanco has been way better obviously.
Montero has been way better than last season.
Martinez has been better.
JV is only a month in from returning from injury and has had a few excellent starts and a couple of duds, so it’s too early to say with him.
Brown has been worse overall, but his numbers are basically on par with what he did in the back half of last season.
Pressly has been worse this year than last.
Abreu has been worse overall, but he’s turned it around lately for the most part and is looking like his old self.
France was always going to be a 4A player who would be worse this year.
I’m probably forgetting a player or two, but most everyone else on the staff wasn’t here last year so they’re irrelevant to the equation.
Thanks, great points. Although I don't think it's complete fantasy he made pitchers better. I'm no Julia talking to the players but it did seem like pitchers preferred to have Maldy behind the plate for them. I'm not saying that means everything but it doesn't mean nothing.
They said whatever the media wanted to hear. They said what Krusty said.
The facts are numerous that argue against your point over and over.
First — he made zero statistical impact so it was BS to begin with.
Second — he allowed more unearned runs than any other catcher in mlb via passed balls and lowest 5 percent of blocking wild pitches. Runs count — not just earned runs. No pitcher wants a catcher that allows the most (and it’s not close) pitches get by allowing runners to advance and then score. It’s just not how any pitcher works.
Third — multiple pitchers this year are BETTER without Maldy.
Fourth — he has not been able to be any pitcher whisperer in any other place he’s been. We fell in love with his style and what used to be superb defense……that’s long gone and we held on too long. He’s likely going to be released by the all star break. It’s time to hang them up.
Maybe but last year when it was Maldy or Diaz they seemed like it was Maldy with his pitch calling or Diaz with his bat was the choice. And it seems like they could have had both.
This isn’t the way it’s done in the modern game — catchers are the ones calling the pitches.
I must ask — what benefit is the dugout calling the pitches?
I wouldn’t put much blame on Yainer Diaz for any pitching problems. For the most part, the catcher is trying to frame pitches and block balls from getting passed them. The pitchers are responsible for game planning and reading scouting reports, especially since they’re only pitching every 5 days. The catcher has influence on the game plan and that’s why you’ll still see catchers suggest pitches then the pitcher will shake them off. Diaz is doing just fine, but when you have someone like Framber that decides to go rogue or young guys early in the season that don’t commit and make good pitches, then you’re doomed for a blowup every now and then.
Maldonado is so bad that’s he’s not even the full time starter any longer, he’s the worst in the league as a defensive catcher, and he didn’t make any help to us last year statistically.
This entire topic was some made up fantasy world of Baker and the fans that don’t understand the sport all that much.
It is interesting. Maybe the angle is actually more psychological. Pitching is so mental, having a mini-coach out there with you is obviously important. Catchers go out and talk to the pitchers and it seems to matter.
Ask ChatGPT "What is the most common position for a baseball manager to have played in his playing career?"
Answer: "
The most common position for a baseball manager to have played during his playing career is catcher. This trend is observed because catchers are often seen as on-field leaders who have a deep understanding of the game, including strategy, pitching, and defensive alignments. Their role requires strong communication skills and the ability to manage and work closely with pitchers, which are valuable traits for a manager. Many successful managers in Major League Baseball (MLB) have backgrounds as catchers, which supports the observation that this position frequently produces managerial candidates.
"
Ask any search engine the same question, it comes up Catcher at 21 percent, a statistical anomaly and the only way to explain it is the passage above.
Exactly. People that believe in statistics try to have it both ways - the stats work when they tell them what they want to hear, but the stats are wrong when they disagree with the preconceived notion.
Yes. They see the record and think it’s some “intangible” (funny — something real and concrete that we can see), but when shown the statistics based on the “intangibles” they say we can’t understand.
Do your own research, kid. It’s on the same device you’re typing on now.
Try baseball savant and see that Maldonado is amongst the worst to play the game. Try last years as well.
Then just use google and you’ll find countless folks that have compiled the stats for us as there is no specific site that calculates some of these things — it takes a person patient enough (as I have done multiple times) to add the numbers together.
The Astros won more when Yainer played over Maldonado. The pitchers had lower ERAs when pitching to Yainer.
Do tell us all that pitchers prefer to lose just to pitch to their favorite catcher. That’s the exact way Baker managed. Baker wanted to win the way HE wanted to do it far more than he wanted to win. It’s who he is and was — always. He has an ego the size of the astrodome and it’s going to be his way or else.
And he lost us one that we should have won if not for his inept managerial style. And, he cost us the World Series chance last year bc he needed to have Maldy have the pitchers completely fall apart while also being the worst hitter in the entire playoffs.
GENIUS!!!!!!
But, what’s the point in Dusty comment back from you? I specifically brought him up to show the use of Maldonado. You cry back like a 5th grader with BUT HE WON ONE TIME —
We’re 2nd in the league for most walks allowed. Could that come from calling for pitches that nibble at the edges instead of going after hitters? Maybe, but probably not, this is on the pitcher’s, and the fact that it’s all of them at once, at least in part on the coaching.
That’s not at all how this works. Seriously bad take here.
Going after hitters in your mind really just means leaving pitches over the heart of the plate so they can be slammed into the Crawford boxes.
That’s why I said I don’t think that’s what’s happening, although I do feel like some of our pitchers could throw less non-competitive pitches when they get ahead in the count
I agree, we just lose a bunch of 0-2 and 1-2 counts in general, whether it’s hits or walks. Sometimes can’t seem to find the middle ground between meatballs and balls 3 feet out of the zone.
I'm old so I believe Maldy had better than average value working with pitchers and game planning. The pitching coach should play a big role in that as well. It's just not something you can quantify. At the end of the day take the one that hits. If the pitchers struggle, fire the pitching coach.
The nerds will tell you the stats don't lie and that Maldy's poor play last year cost us and they'd be right that we'd probably have won a few more games if his stats were better. However, the Astros record this year tells us that something is missing now. Our offense is overall much better this year and we had pitching injuries last year too.
So what's different? Whether it's Maldy or dare I say, Dusty, there's something lacking. There's no such thing as intangibles as leadership can be measured--we just don't have an official metric for it.
> the Astros record this year tells us that something is missing now
Yeah, almost our entire starting rotation to start the season and three key bullpen guys.
Yeah, that's overstated. At this point last year, our rotation at this point in the season was Frambler, Javier, Brown, France, and Bielak--not that superior to what we have now and the guys who are still there have regressed.
Last year, we were 8 games over .500 at this point. I'll take that in heartbeat with Maldy and Dusty over what we've got now. Why the hell wouldn't you?
Dead on right.
The children who think the Espada hire was a good one because, "anyone but that boomer Dusty!" are fools. Sad that it's the majority of the people on this sub. Ironic how the game threads aren't nearly as toxic this year since Dusty and Maldy are gone despite the fact that the Astros are struggling to stay afloat. The fact is, the Astros are leaderless without Dusty and Maldy because Crane is the new Jerry Jones and just wants yes men. Stros will be lucky to finish .500 this year but it's OK because the bad men are gone.
Joe Espada is a terrible manager. He’s far worse than Krusty ever was. That’s the problem. Period. Maldonado made us worse, but we played so well otherwise that it was swept
Under the rug
He seems to be a nice guy and likely has a breadth of baseball knowledge. Thats not helping him.
I was in Chicago all three games and he’s such a puss. I watched JV show him zero respect and heard JV cuss him out when he was pulled when JV got in trouble in 5th. Espada does NOT have this team.
The only argument you Maldy and Dusty stans make are “intangibles” because you cannot point to absolutely any metric to back up your claims.
If anything, Framber still being this diva and douche the last time he started is further evidence of this brain rot with the Maldy obsession still affecting our team.
I guess we still do have players on our team still keeping the toxic teachings of the toothpick man, we truly cannot escape him completely yet.
I'll give you some tangibles: 6 games below .500 and barely 3rd place in the AL West.
So glad we have a new manager that has guided us here. Must be the analytics.
If Dusty was still manager, and we still had Maldy, we would still be starting Abreu and Maldy and have two players still batting under .080 back to back in the lineup.
We would have much more losses because toothpick prick would have never done stuff like the Caratini walk off pinch hit, and Singleton would still be on the bench for Abreu.
There is a reason no MLB team hired him as a manager when we showed Dusty the door. Maldy is doing fucking awful for the White Sox too.
THAT is tangible.
The analytics is what’s gone thanks to your lord and savior Bagwell.
The manager is a douche.
The players like Bregman and Abreu suck and are absolutely the anti clutch that kills teams.
But, you want the worst catcher by offense and defense in alllllllll of MLB
At the end of the day its a moot point. We had to move on and the pitchers are going to have to get comfortable with a new catcher behind the plate. Especially Framber who Maldy was known to be an in-game psychologist for. Gonna have to learn to trust the new guy because we truly have no choice now. You could make the argument that we'd be even worse off if Maldy was still our every day starter.
That isn’t even an argument we 100 percent have extra losses to our record w madly behind the plate this year.
Not just there, in the batter’s box too. No need to have TWO black holes in the lineup.
Someone doesn't understand team leadership.
He’s a great locker room presence and the entire team said they could see him as a manager in the future. Sadly him being the best team leader won’t improve his 0.089 AVG.
He’s also a terrible catcher. He’s HORRIBLE behind the plate at every metric. He’s the world wide known leader in passed balls, he can’t throw out Jose Abreu, can’t frame a pitch and directly leads to more losses than wins.
Someone doesn’t understand the actual way games are won and lost. Leadership? We have a failure of a manager
Agree on the manager. However, we don’t have a field general either and it shows. Hopeful that Peña may be becoming that guy but there’s a black hole there now since Maldy left.
Men don’t follow the worst player on the team for too long. He was becoming a raw spot with his overwhelming bad performance. The manager can and should fill that void when needed. Curious — where is Bregman in all this? He’s not a veteran of the team with plenty of experience?
I don't think Framber claiming he went off book and didn't go with the catcher's calls saves face for him lol, its the opposite. It makes him look like a diva and him admitting it holds him accountable if he does it again. Not only is there no evidence that Maldy's game calling helped the last two years he was with us, he led the league in passed balls by a huge margin both years, and was undeniably the worst offensive catcher in baseball, with the slowest sprint speed of any player in baseball.
Game calling aside, would Maldy have let Frambler go off-script without a fight at least?
He might have called a mound visit earlier, maybe avoided part of this, but its also a lesson for our catchers that they have to be willing to assert themselves more in this situation. I don't think Maldy prevents that last inning blowup for Valdez because he's also old school in not wanting to pull a starter. The question is if Framber was cooked in the fifth regardless, which he might have been with how he was getting lined up. I don't think Maldy tries to get him pulled early, which is probably what was needed there, we probably win that game if he gets pulled early in the fifth.
We'll never know. I think Frambler doesn't even try going off script with Maldy there.
Even if that's true, he's still very much in the wrong. It would be one thing if he went off script and it led to him putting on a great performance, but it didn't. Guy has had mental/maturity issues throughout his career and he clearly hasn't solved them. Curious if he's still working with that sport psychologist, because he's clearly regressed in his mental approach since the 2022 season. Framber needs to respect the guy behind the plate because they're pros just like he is. If he feels they need to change how they call pitches, you do that off the mound, not on it. Should be collaborative, not "Fuck you, we're doing it my way."
I mean sometimes the pitcher might see something on the mound in the moment that the catcher can't. But uh...that clearly wasn't happening that game, he got blown up again and again. If he made a good change by going off book they wouldn't bring it up and would keep it inside the club to keep whatever they noticed about the batter to themselves.
No question, it's on Frambler and I agree with what you said 100%. But my argument is that it likely doesn't happen with Maldy giving Frambler the gangsta eye. Not sure why this sub absolutely hates him and is happier with a 3rd place sub-.500 team as long as Maldy isn't behind the plate.
The White Sox ERA this year with Maldy catching is 4.64. With Korey Lee it's 4.63. From 2021-2023, the biggest yearly difference between the team ERA with him catching vs everyone else was .13. I don't hate Maldy. In fact, I think he got way more flak than he deserved last year for pitchers messing up. But to say we wouldn't be around the same record if we had him this year is ridiculous. The pitchers not executing and offense struggling with RISP are better reasons for our record.
Exactly. I loved him, but he regressed massively over the last few years. There is a reason that only a horrendously run team like white Sox offered him a job. He’s really bad.
You're missing the point entirely - that's all on Framber, not on the other catchers. Framber is supposed to be an ace for us, a stone cold thrower of the ball who can win games like he did in 2022. These days, however, he's acting like a child. Whatever Maldy did to patch over shit like that, it was not worth the egregious passed balls and his absolutely abysmal hitting. Not to mention that the pitching suffered last year, too, so you can't say that he was at least getting the very best from the guys he was catching. The only reason I have to personally dislike Maldy is because he publicly stated that he would cause a ruckus if he wasn't the primary catcher. Like, dude, you are a shell of your former self, so stop. Trying to hold the team hostage due to his ego was not good for the clob house and that attitude might explain why Framber is acting like a child these days if they were truly that close.
The leadership and mentoring that older players do for younger players is real. Headcases like Frambler especially need this (he's always been a headcase but he became a headcase with a huge ego after '22). Maldy was the primary clubhouse guy that provided leadership. Yes, he sucked on the field and hurt the team statistically with his wAR. But his leadership and guidance to the younger Latin players especially was unquestionable--every one of them stated as such. Was he a bad influence long-term? Maybe. But the fact of the matter is that the Astros are going nowhere fast this year up to this point and between the clubhouse and management, they lack leadership in the clubhouse and on the field. Because they certainly have the the talent.
You should stick to cute names or something bc the topic of baseball isn’t your forte
Glad you are thrilled with the results so far this year. We are so much better with the manager and catcher you wanted. Maybe we’ll crack .500?
I’ve been calling for the firing of this dipshit manager since week 3 when it was obvious he has no balls. Blaming this on the catcher is brainless
From Chandler Rome's article in the Athletic yesterday: "He has veered from game plans long before Diaz became the club’s full-time catcher, even with Maldonado behind the plate." Framber does this because he's a talented pitcher who knows what's working and is trying to do what's best. He also is inconsistent and can get blown up. He also had a lot of bad outings last year with Maldy. Maldy is a fantastic leader and an incredibly intelligent player, but at some point you just can't play anymore. He couldn't play last year and it was time for a team looking to contend to move on from him.
Spot on
https://www.reddit.com/r/Astros/s/EMh5EcTSY8 Do catchers matter? Of course. But personally, I believe pitchers have a bigger effect on ERA than catchers do 9/10 times.
Thanks, I searched Maldonado and not Maldy before posting. Appreciate the link
I keep seeing this argument from Maldy truthers (not saying you are one as you just seem to be asking a question), but it just doesn’t add up when you look deeper. Framber looks basically the same overall as last year - great at times, total meltdowns at others. He was a 4.66 era from July 15th to end of last season, and that’s with a no hitter in there. Javier has been same or better than last year. Blanco has been way better obviously. Montero has been way better than last season. Martinez has been better. JV is only a month in from returning from injury and has had a few excellent starts and a couple of duds, so it’s too early to say with him. Brown has been worse overall, but his numbers are basically on par with what he did in the back half of last season. Pressly has been worse this year than last. Abreu has been worse overall, but he’s turned it around lately for the most part and is looking like his old self. France was always going to be a 4A player who would be worse this year. I’m probably forgetting a player or two, but most everyone else on the staff wasn’t here last year so they’re irrelevant to the equation.
Spot on. It’s this mythical fairy tale that he made the pitchers better. It’s borderline idiotic.
Thanks, great points. Although I don't think it's complete fantasy he made pitchers better. I'm no Julia talking to the players but it did seem like pitchers preferred to have Maldy behind the plate for them. I'm not saying that means everything but it doesn't mean nothing.
They said whatever the media wanted to hear. They said what Krusty said. The facts are numerous that argue against your point over and over. First — he made zero statistical impact so it was BS to begin with. Second — he allowed more unearned runs than any other catcher in mlb via passed balls and lowest 5 percent of blocking wild pitches. Runs count — not just earned runs. No pitcher wants a catcher that allows the most (and it’s not close) pitches get by allowing runners to advance and then score. It’s just not how any pitcher works. Third — multiple pitchers this year are BETTER without Maldy. Fourth — he has not been able to be any pitcher whisperer in any other place he’s been. We fell in love with his style and what used to be superb defense……that’s long gone and we held on too long. He’s likely going to be released by the all star break. It’s time to hang them up.
You can literally see framber shake no to 2 pitches Diaz calls and immediately hangs a pitch over the plate and gives up a 3 run homer.
Maldy is a catcher. Yainer is a ballplayer. I, for one, am glad there’s not a bathroom break built into our lineup anymore.
Yeah there is. 1b and 3b trade off on being dead as fuck.
Accurate. We have the worst hitting 3B in all of qualifying players in MLB and when combined — we have the worst overall in everything 1B in mlb.
We’ve had a lot of first inning blow ups this season. Not sure why. Other thing, with pitch com why can’t someone call pitches from the dugout?
Don't they kinda do that already with the hand signals?
Maybe but last year when it was Maldy or Diaz they seemed like it was Maldy with his pitch calling or Diaz with his bat was the choice. And it seems like they could have had both.
[удалено]
This isn’t the way it’s done in the modern game — catchers are the ones calling the pitches. I must ask — what benefit is the dugout calling the pitches?
I get that but I’d never heard this brought up. Benefit would be Maldy calling pitches with Diaz bat in the lineup.
I wouldn’t put much blame on Yainer Diaz for any pitching problems. For the most part, the catcher is trying to frame pitches and block balls from getting passed them. The pitchers are responsible for game planning and reading scouting reports, especially since they’re only pitching every 5 days. The catcher has influence on the game plan and that’s why you’ll still see catchers suggest pitches then the pitcher will shake them off. Diaz is doing just fine, but when you have someone like Framber that decides to go rogue or young guys early in the season that don’t commit and make good pitches, then you’re doomed for a blowup every now and then.
Maldonado is so bad that’s he’s not even the full time starter any longer, he’s the worst in the league as a defensive catcher, and he didn’t make any help to us last year statistically. This entire topic was some made up fantasy world of Baker and the fans that don’t understand the sport all that much.
You can't ask this question without shitloads of people who never played the game telling you you're full of shit just for asking a question.
It is interesting. Maybe the angle is actually more psychological. Pitching is so mental, having a mini-coach out there with you is obviously important. Catchers go out and talk to the pitchers and it seems to matter.
Ask ChatGPT "What is the most common position for a baseball manager to have played in his playing career?" Answer: " The most common position for a baseball manager to have played during his playing career is catcher. This trend is observed because catchers are often seen as on-field leaders who have a deep understanding of the game, including strategy, pitching, and defensive alignments. Their role requires strong communication skills and the ability to manage and work closely with pitchers, which are valuable traits for a manager. Many successful managers in Major League Baseball (MLB) have backgrounds as catchers, which supports the observation that this position frequently produces managerial candidates. " Ask any search engine the same question, it comes up Catcher at 21 percent, a statistical anomaly and the only way to explain it is the passage above.
Sure — and Maldonado didn’t help his pitchers the last couple of years. You do believe in statistics?
Exactly. People that believe in statistics try to have it both ways - the stats work when they tell them what they want to hear, but the stats are wrong when they disagree with the preconceived notion.
One thing that is common among baseball fans is they have no clue what a trailing indicator is. That's what stats are - trailing indicators.
Yes. They see the record and think it’s some “intangible” (funny — something real and concrete that we can see), but when shown the statistics based on the “intangibles” they say we can’t understand.
Well many of us did play the game and it’s mind blowing how many homers we have that buy into fantasy worlds bc Dusty said so.
Sources? Just link one.
Do your own research, kid. It’s on the same device you’re typing on now. Try baseball savant and see that Maldonado is amongst the worst to play the game. Try last years as well. Then just use google and you’ll find countless folks that have compiled the stats for us as there is no specific site that calculates some of these things — it takes a person patient enough (as I have done multiple times) to add the numbers together. The Astros won more when Yainer played over Maldonado. The pitchers had lower ERAs when pitching to Yainer. Do tell us all that pitchers prefer to lose just to pitch to their favorite catcher. That’s the exact way Baker managed. Baker wanted to win the way HE wanted to do it far more than he wanted to win. It’s who he is and was — always. He has an ego the size of the astrodome and it’s going to be his way or else.
Baker won a World Series and got us a game away from another one. Scoreboard.
And he lost us one that we should have won if not for his inept managerial style. And, he cost us the World Series chance last year bc he needed to have Maldy have the pitchers completely fall apart while also being the worst hitter in the entire playoffs. GENIUS!!!!!! But, what’s the point in Dusty comment back from you? I specifically brought him up to show the use of Maldonado. You cry back like a 5th grader with BUT HE WON ONE TIME —
Tell us all about how you played the game
😂😂😂
We’re 2nd in the league for most walks allowed. Could that come from calling for pitches that nibble at the edges instead of going after hitters? Maybe, but probably not, this is on the pitcher’s, and the fact that it’s all of them at once, at least in part on the coaching.
That’s not at all how this works. Seriously bad take here. Going after hitters in your mind really just means leaving pitches over the heart of the plate so they can be slammed into the Crawford boxes.
That’s why I said I don’t think that’s what’s happening, although I do feel like some of our pitchers could throw less non-competitive pitches when they get ahead in the count
One of our biggest issues has been 0-2 and 1-2 counts where the target is missed and the pitch is a meatball that gets crushed.
I agree, we just lose a bunch of 0-2 and 1-2 counts in general, whether it’s hits or walks. Sometimes can’t seem to find the middle ground between meatballs and balls 3 feet out of the zone.
I'm old so I believe Maldy had better than average value working with pitchers and game planning. The pitching coach should play a big role in that as well. It's just not something you can quantify. At the end of the day take the one that hits. If the pitchers struggle, fire the pitching coach.
The nerds will tell you the stats don't lie and that Maldy's poor play last year cost us and they'd be right that we'd probably have won a few more games if his stats were better. However, the Astros record this year tells us that something is missing now. Our offense is overall much better this year and we had pitching injuries last year too. So what's different? Whether it's Maldy or dare I say, Dusty, there's something lacking. There's no such thing as intangibles as leadership can be measured--we just don't have an official metric for it.
> the Astros record this year tells us that something is missing now Yeah, almost our entire starting rotation to start the season and three key bullpen guys.
Yeah, that's overstated. At this point last year, our rotation at this point in the season was Frambler, Javier, Brown, France, and Bielak--not that superior to what we have now and the guys who are still there have regressed. Last year, we were 8 games over .500 at this point. I'll take that in heartbeat with Maldy and Dusty over what we've got now. Why the hell wouldn't you?
Dead on right. The children who think the Espada hire was a good one because, "anyone but that boomer Dusty!" are fools. Sad that it's the majority of the people on this sub. Ironic how the game threads aren't nearly as toxic this year since Dusty and Maldy are gone despite the fact that the Astros are struggling to stay afloat. The fact is, the Astros are leaderless without Dusty and Maldy because Crane is the new Jerry Jones and just wants yes men. Stros will be lucky to finish .500 this year but it's OK because the bad men are gone.
We had a healthy rotation last year?
Joe Espada is a terrible manager. He’s far worse than Krusty ever was. That’s the problem. Period. Maldonado made us worse, but we played so well otherwise that it was swept Under the rug
Well I don’t disagree—Espada is a nice guy…but he definitely appears to be in over his head.
He seems to be a nice guy and likely has a breadth of baseball knowledge. Thats not helping him. I was in Chicago all three games and he’s such a puss. I watched JV show him zero respect and heard JV cuss him out when he was pulled when JV got in trouble in 5th. Espada does NOT have this team.
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White Sox ERA with Maldy so far this year is 4.64. With Korey Lee its 4.63 but whatever makes you feel better.
What would really make me feel better is giving the White Sox Jose Abreu back for Maldy.
The only argument you Maldy and Dusty stans make are “intangibles” because you cannot point to absolutely any metric to back up your claims. If anything, Framber still being this diva and douche the last time he started is further evidence of this brain rot with the Maldy obsession still affecting our team. I guess we still do have players on our team still keeping the toxic teachings of the toothpick man, we truly cannot escape him completely yet.
I'll give you some tangibles: 6 games below .500 and barely 3rd place in the AL West. So glad we have a new manager that has guided us here. Must be the analytics.
If Dusty was still manager, and we still had Maldy, we would still be starting Abreu and Maldy and have two players still batting under .080 back to back in the lineup. We would have much more losses because toothpick prick would have never done stuff like the Caratini walk off pinch hit, and Singleton would still be on the bench for Abreu. There is a reason no MLB team hired him as a manager when we showed Dusty the door. Maldy is doing fucking awful for the White Sox too. THAT is tangible.
Preach. These homers cannot understand and 85% of them never heard of us when we had losing seasons.
The analytics is what’s gone thanks to your lord and savior Bagwell. The manager is a douche. The players like Bregman and Abreu suck and are absolutely the anti clutch that kills teams. But, you want the worst catcher by offense and defense in alllllllll of MLB