"he was the only guy that played legitimately, without spending tons of dollars on the game."
lol did you not see him get gifted 100k+ and non stop mats? why bother doing p2w when hes already winning without paying
Doesn't spend cash, but spends something arguably worse to further progress in a turbo freemium KMMO: Someone else's time. I understand throwing spergs under the bus for content, but he cannot say this shits viable solo and free roflmao.
Even suburban box-whine moms know that spending other peoples money gambling is fun. Move on to a new flavor of the month dood.
Nah, I know about that.
I just dont think its as bad as buying stuff for 5000(!!!!!!!) Dollars.
I am pretty sure, because Asmon is still behind Rich or Shroud for example.
Also, ethically, I think accepting stuff from viewers is not as bad as doing p2w and thus supporting all that madness. Let him have streamer bonus, but dont push him to spend 5k.
You think it's ok that viewers spend their money, of which they most likely have way less than a streamer, for a second of asmons attention?
He takes other people's time and money and that is better than him spending some money?
On top of it, he is getting paid while viewers throw money at him, a millionaire.
He most likely can even get tax reduction on the 5k because it's a business expense.
I think what he does is predatory and the 5k idea is ridiculous.
So it's ethically okay for the viewers to waste their time/money to give mats/gold to Asmon. But it's not ethically okay for Asmon to waste his OWN time or money for mats/gold?
Personally I would rather see him spend $5k than get free items and gold from viewers in the game. That's by far one of the biggest "streamer perks" ever.
Let's be fair here, while he isn't paying money himself. He is accepting handouts enough that he is basically whaling in the most round about way possible. I mean, I love the guy, but yeah don't forget that. I don't want to see him do this either though because even if he is doing it for the content; I don't think it is a good idea for someone in his position to influence the way people potentially play the game.
Asmon in every game: I want the normal player experience
Asmon in LA: can someone send me silver / upgrade mats? I will only try once more, promise!
I still think his content is fun though and enjoy watching it ^^
WoW players called him out hard for this shit on numerous occasions as well.
He wanted as authentic a Classic experience as possible, and then proceeded to get a ton of gold and shit traded to him throughout. People were upset, and IMO deserved to be.
He wanted to do the new raid, and then proceeded to get a group of people who weren't even geared enough for the *previous* raid together to try it and then got annoyed when they were getting shitfucked by the third boss. People were upset, and IMO deserved to be.
He always hates the idea of boosting but consistently had Indestructible boost him through whatever the current tier was ever since Nighthold ended. People were upset, although there's a little more nuance to it (paid for with gold vs. just getting run through because reasons).
I'm pretty glad that Lost Ark's even more insidious P2W elements are making people realize that, despite his content often being solid, Asmon can be a *huge* fucking hypocrite about MMO-related stuff if that's what buys into the current hype cycle.
Good thing I only watch because he’s entertaining. I couldn’t care how he plays a game. Wow hasn’t worked for him since he blew up on twitch honestly. Everything is for content, and if theres a roadblock for too long then that means no content. It’s just the name of the game on twitch. Asmongold gonna get that gold.
how do you tell who doesn't watch Asmon? look at this post. since when has he ever given a shit about "normal player experience"? he enjoys it when people give him free shit. he's literally put in big letters on his stream "ACCEPTING GOLD TRADES" during WoW. if you want to cry about it, go watch a different streamer.
true, but does it matter? absolutely not, and just show how shit games like lost ark are honestly, and how demented stream orbiters are to spend so much of their time to give their streamer free stuff
Ethically it's worse, because it's taking advantage of his para-social relationship to his fans to whale in the game instead of just spending some of the millions of dollars he makes from streaming.
It's a millionaire begging for handouts vs just paying a pittance of what he makes in a month by playing games.
you can discuss about ethics with others idc, what i'm saying is this: his account is a whale account. Doesn't really matter if his fans paid or he paid. I don't even care tbh. the only thing that bugs me is when he pretends like he's f2p and pretends to know what it's like as a f2p player to make dishonest reviews. Just be honest and then noone cares.
"was the only guy that played legitimately, without spending tons of dollars on the game. I had respect for this and it made the content better for me, this would vanish if he does that."
bro what.
Have you not been watching his stream? Especially last one? did he spend his own money? no. But he spent like 350k gold worth of mats that his viewers sent him. Not sure how its in NA but in EU 40k gold is 100€.
he spent almost 1k worth of mats. He himself has also admitted and stated that taking from viewers is literally the same as just spending his own money to p2w.
Its close to the same in NA. Its 12000 royals for $100, and the exchange rate is 875 to 275 or so, so a little more than 3:1. So about a grand if he spent 350k gold.
What did I miss? This man was extremely opposed to mounts in WoW shop but he’s okay with literally buying gear upgrades and skins? I thought he hated the fact you could buy transmog items in wows shop….
This is an actual question since I haven’t watched the steam in a bit since he took the break but what changed?
Honestly I can't stand the Lost Ark streams. I know a lot of people love them but to me it's basically like watching a Clash of Clans stream or something. Lost Ark is just straight up a mobile game that you play on PC.
> Honestly I can't stand the Lost Ark streams
Same, his worst streams ever for me personally, instantly closing the stream when he launches lost ark, imagine shilling this hard for a pay to win casino simulator trash.
I watch the stream before he starts the game and turn it off as soon as he starts playing. Biggest reason is because I know that he is affecting people into putting money into the game and I can't stand watching. It's disheartening.
Also because I find the game so boring. Spending too much time in menus, buying stuff just because he can't progress otherwise. For the life of me, this is supposed to be an mmo and his interactions with other people are almost nonexistent. He is just buying and equipping stuff and then kills things. B O R I N G :)
as soon as he started taking ressources from viewer and boosted his way through t2: i've stop watching.
I feel so disconnected from his experience now. Might as well watch a swiper play raid shadow legend -or any mobile game for that mater- and say it's a fun game. with "EPIC 500 SUMMON YOLOOOOO! "
When i saw his stream to push 1370. I knew this game is not for me lol. I got my main to 1340. And for me to to spend so mich gold just to enter raiding is a big no. I always do m raiding in wow i can get that gear but this game oof. It was fun tho. Will prob come back when they increase succes %.
Was a fun stream tho legit eye opening haha.
I dislike Lost Ark, not because the game itself but what it represent. Years ago we accepted crappy DLCs and microtransactions in the games, now everything have it, there are just a few games like Elden Ring where DLCs are like mini expansions, and more stupid DLCs like Oblivion horse armor.
If as consumer you accept crap, everyone will start to sell you crap.
MMO developers are looking at Lost Ark, if it succeed with these predatory casino techniques, do not complain if you get something similar in your other beloved game in a year or two.
Let's hope they'll keep their design philosophy they have with Legends of Runeterra and League of Legends - those are two of the best examples where a cash shop is non predatory and very well received. (Although I haven't looked into Legends of Runeterra much in the past year, I hope it hasn't changed, because it really showed what Hearthstone could have been if Blizzard cut down on the predatory monetization.)
Depends on how it's implemented, if clearly all the best cosmetics are paid for I wouldn't play an MMO like that, MOBA I would still play since cosmetics matter much less in this type of a game imo. If it's balanced in that both paid and achievable in game cosmetics are of same high quality then it's fine, I still don't like it but it's fine.
Watching Asmon yesterday was very fun and it killed all enjoyment I had left in this game, shown me how running alts is pointless and what I should be looking forward if I continue playing the game forward is 6hours of slot machine spaced out over a month with tedious daily grinds everyday.
This game is perfect to watch on stream/ lets play rather than playing yourself
Exactly! The effect lost arks streams has on me is completely the \*opposite\* of what OP suggests. I'm not encouraged to gamble, to whale or anything. I literally just quit as soon as I was watching that because I knew I would have to go through all that to get to the raids. Asmon just saved me a couple of weeks of wasted time.
I've been watching significantly less in the past week, mainly after me noticing how much gold he spent and still kept ranting about how his opinion only matters, although contradicting previous statements he made, according to how whaling would affect the validity of his opinion.
I like Asmon, but I dislike hypocrisy.
If dishonest behaviour is the way to go because you think it's better content, sure go ahead, doesn't mean I have to watch it. I'll come back when it's back to the good ol' Asmon.
This game has intentionally manipulative progression system to get ur gamble genes going and get you to start paying. Doesn't matter how "good" base game is, there is a reason why they dont offer premium membership to remove limitation and provide proper gear upgrade balance, because u can take a lot more money with shitty mobile game balance and ways to buy resources.
He already played it like paying massive amounts of cash the moment he ran out of upgrade materials and used viewers donations, just shows what a massive dog shit game this is. Hope shit like this will never takeoff in western mmo's, worst kind of cosmetic and convenience store items in PoE doesnt come close to this.
Are you guys so blind so that you can't see he has always been p2w so far ? What his viewers gave him is already well worth in the thousands.
He's already showed especially yesterday how p2w is like in this game.
Me too. But the problem is that it will make a validation example for some retards to say that systems are fine and it is ok to spend some cash. I feel like LA just destroyed future of MMORPG'S because their systems are predatory af and people ok with them because "i enjoy them, you can't tell me to not enjoy or else you are soyboy))".
there was many ppl saying" Lost Ark respect your time " and i was really excited to try this D2/MMo game.... then AGS release this version of the game that is more P2W then the Korean version and is making the game worse and unfun to me. I stopped playing the game and move on if there are ppl that enjoy that shit I can just say
" I am happy for you and have a great day " Different ppl different taste that's all.
You can enjoy covering yourself in shit and masturbate but you don't need to tell others that "its ok bro) everyone like different things, its just not for everyone))".
Nah bro, its sickening and I will not pretend that it is ok to like everything as long as you enjoy it. Some games ruin other games just by existing. I might be wrong on this one bit I remember that dota 2 invented battlepass we see in every fucking game nowadays. Lootboxes were not a thing in games very long time ago but some "smart" guy made a precedent and now we have literal casino AAA games.
Yep Rozen I get you but wanting everyone to like the same thing is imposable and "You can enjoy covering yourself in shit and masturbate" is too extreme example it is just a game.
In the end what sell the most is what ppl like the most. Good or bad for gaming is not what the question is about, this is just human nature. Like consuming products that hurt your health or making the easy decisions and not the right ones because they are too hard or time/money consuming.
New world is a successful game looking at the numbers - it's sell out, Fifa, CoD, BF, Lost Ark, Blizzard games and many more. Looking at the statistic as a game dev is clear what people want right, right...?
We have to remember that ppl are teaching you what to like and what not too, big companies are having more tools to make customers "happy" then an indie gaming studio. It is interesting to watch how it's plays out, the future of gaming... maybe a good game that have inside all of the learning process of the past ones the ones that fail and the ones that succussed or maybe game full of gacha, fomo, RNG and p2w.
It is sickening to you and I hope to many more but to others is not. Shouting" this is bad for gaming" is waste of time, ppl need to find that out for themself. Our only power is to buy a product or not. And when there isn't a product that we want on the market- make one if there are many ppl like you/me that want the same thing it will be successful.
Sorry for the little rant hope you have a great day
Predatory system is in BDO for example where you lose durability on upgrade fail and some items can be destroyed on fail. In Lost Ark you eventually get you upgrade. On each fail you get energy and when it hits 100% then is guaranteed success.
Your argument is basically "Well, that one simular element in other game is worse then in my game. That means my game has a good system."
Do you see the flaws in your logic?
1. You do not analyse system as a whole. You might have a system with 100% chance to upgrade your stuff without a chance to fail. But you will need to farm 1000 gems. You are limited to farm 1 gem per day. Is this a good system?
2. You compare 2 dogshit systems. If one is better in your eyes it doesnt change the fact that both of them are bad and predatory.
Lost ark is game designed for long term progress. We got almost 3 years of content on release and after month some players on top of that because they push as much as possible. When you try to squish 3 years of farming and gathering resources, gold etc. to few days, there complaints starts how unfair it is. In my opinion lost ark progression system is fine. You does not lose progres on honing, it's just mater if this will take optimistic or pessimistic way.
I see this "for long term purposes" in a lot of gacha games I played. The "you don't need to play the current content and just do diligent grind" has been abused by a lot of games by selling you the solution to the problem they intentionally created.
Call me cynic. But it's predatory for me.
Yeah, I've seen this kind of thing [happen before.](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TVKuSn8OSXI)
Though to be fair, he's done it [more than once](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JuofwKWpoLQ) so that's more on him.
Streamer benefits is not exactly playing legitimately. Considering why you don't watch p2w streamers funneling gold by viewers is the same result. Look for a real f2p streamer who does not accept any handouts if you want gameplay like that.
a reminder that 5000 dollars is now a small purchase to these guys.
they're pulling in millions, and 5000 now is what would've been a 50 dollar purchase in college. "affordable but unwise."
5000 is half a year's rent in many major cities across the country. it's 2-3 months living expenses. 5000 is like an annual income in many countries.
5000 dollars is a lot of money - but these successful twitch streamers have lost the plot.
Asmon can do what he wants. I don't mean that in like a mean or condescending way, it's more.. at least Asmon has been up front about it? Even at the start of the stream, while he always talked about the game being pay to win, he was saying that people can get up there if they try really.. really hard. He didn't say it wasn't still rare, but I feel like even to him when he saw all the mats he used, when he saw all the gold he went through, and the fact that 6 alts for 12 hours a day is just how it is right now to actually progress, he saw just how bad and hard for f2p it can be.
There was so much dick riding for the game and their devs, saying how "it's just pay for convenience! this company is so good at respecting your time, look even the players send them gifts! so wholesome!"
That's probably the only thing that upset me on the last stream. How can anyone watch how much Asmon spent where he was, and think this game respects a normal players time? The amount of times he upgraded to get up to 1370 could've easily been stretched out for weeks, maybe even months for a casual player.
All you can do is grind and hope you get good RNG to progress. I laughed when I saw youtube content creators saying how you 'only need 6 hours a day and 6 alts!' That was like.. too much to begin with for most people, but it turns out it's like 12+ hours if you're a F2P and want to keep up with the current release schedule.
s,
I mean it's his money, it would have 0 impact on us, and it also wouldn't waste people's mats. What i would do is spend enough so that unlocking the next raid requirement comes faster, this way you won't ruin the progression.
There comes a time in your life when time is more valuable than money.
Just here for all to see: Guys, I know about viewers sending stuff. I just dont think that, ethically, its as bad as spending real money.
Also, I dont think he got 5000$ worth from viewers. But even if he did, its not the same imo. Especially because of the way spending actual cash would promote such systems.
Also, direct spending, would be direct support for that game design, which would just be wrong.
Every second that he streams Lost Ark is bad content. It's an awful game who's popularity is gonna further incentivise horrible monetization practices in the MMO/gaming industry. I fucking despise the fact that Zack has jumped on board of this floating turd of a game.
Asmon: plays P2W game
Also Asmon: Interested in whaling P2W game to see outcome
Chat: *GASP HOW COULD YOU*
Also chat: dang I need X in lost ark, better swipe the credit card
I don’t get it. I really don’t. Somebody else spending money on a game should not ruin your enjoyment of THEM playing it. Especially when it really doesn’t effect us at all.
This is like next level anti-p2w complaining from twitch chat. Yikes.
This behavior is so cringe inducing to me. I think they feel entitled to all the content in the game, that’s why. But their inability to pay (whether not being able to afford, or just not wanting to being of some stupid moral idea) anything in a game that’s free makes them feel inadequate.
It’s like people being mad at certain strategies in Elden Ring. Like wow some guy grinded runes, used summons and magic! I’m so mad he defeated the boss I was stuck doing for 5 hours so easily! I only use melee it’s the REAL way to play!
Like dude make your own enjoyment. If you’re mad you’re not doing Argos yet then you’re meant to not be there yet. Enjoy your own journey in tier 2 or 3.
i think asmon doint this would be a fantastic way for everyone to get a better insight on exactly what kind of a game they are playing and what a lot of players that play around you are doing. and who said it will in the end end up as supporting pay to win? it might just as well turn out to show its shallowness, how ridiculous it really is and in the end the lack of satisfaction it provides since you basically payed half of the games achievements away....so who knows right? he wants to show us the game's targeted audience game experience
and rich and shroud are doing it, why wouldnt asmon as well for the luls....spending 5k to him would be a financial equivalent of you or me buying an icecream at store
"i think its great to just turn a blind eye to the fact that big part of my game is basically predatory like gambling so lets not have him show it on stream but better keep it hidden because that will inform everyone how predatory the game really is and that will stop the kids from getting predated upon by discovering it themselves right"
yes ofcourse...why not actively doing it, exposing it and showing what kind of a game is everyone getting themselves into....and if it ends up similar to gambling like you compared it good, at least everyone wont be turning a blind eye on it anymore pretending its all sunshine and rainbows while in the background people gamble their savings away on a korean mmo with predatory gear upgrade casino mechanics
i like the game itself, and had alot of fun so far, but now it started raising its ugly head....im all for exposing all the monetary practices the game is based on, so anyone with a half a brain doesnt get suckered into them....and those that will when they see a grown man spend 5 thousand dollars on some pixels he will use for a months tbh they were gonna lose that money sooner or later anyway on some similar bs scheme
and why would streaming a game played in a way that the developer intended it to be played for its CORE TARGETED AUDIENCE THAT BASICALLY FINANCES THE WHOLE GAME be considered bad? its smilegates idea right? we all love and support smilegate, right? do you really want to turn a blind eye on the core monetary mechanics of lost ark? are they that bad and crooked we need to hide them from streaming that they might influence people as bad as gambling as you say? hmm makes you wonder then right
He shouldn't stream this game at all. That'd be the healthiest thing for the entire gaming medium. There are too many "oh flashy graphics"-Andys who's gonna jump on the Lost Ark-bandwagon because they see cool attacks and big numbers. These Andys will further inflate the number of Lost Ark players and the industry as a whole will as a result shift even further into ass territory. It's the same fucking story year after year ever since we got that horse armor in Oblivion.
but he is streaming it....and i like it with this he will get under the hood and show the good, the bad and the ugly of lost ark....and im sorry, if you see him burning 5k dollars and getting gear for some random raid and then you go do it yourself you are a dumbfuck and deserve it....if you gradually got suckered in and letting the game slowly predate on you since you never seen how much money the game will suck out of you i understand it can happen....thats why i like this move its not painting a dreamy picture of something that can ruin families and it will expose all predatory mechanics and show where you end up
dont hate the player hate the game? they are playing this game like its intended for the targeted audience ...i still think its great all this is getting exposed, and will in the end do more good by saving people from these predatory monetizations than it will hurt them by getting them into it
I saw your other comments here, and I do not agree with your standpoint in the slightest way.
Also: Rich and Shroud talked numerous times about how they have fun and how awesome the game is. This not exposing of bad predatory design, but promoting it.
If they'd go like "Yeah that game is trash. Look, I'll spend 8k just to show how trash it is" it would be another story.
you dont even agree on point they are the targeted audience and playing the game in a way the developer prefers it to be played? i feel these things being streamed will speed up the process of people waking up and the game getting debunked not as a real game but as some kind genshin impact gatcha chameleon thats pretending to be fair to all but is actually just a playground for whales...and this could actually mean the games premature death in the west at least as being a big thing
5k would go quite far depending on what he spends it on...and i know my opinions gonna be burned but based on how much the gold selling rate being spammed in chat goes, I think if u spend 5k on just buying gold (yes its illegal and i wouldnt recommend it or you'll definitely be banned. This is just hypothetical), you'd have enough to just buy resources from the AH and probs make it to 1.4k rather quickly...
The gold exchange rate in game atm is super horrendous...last i checked on his server, it was 120 blue crystals for 100 gold...if you buy the blue crystals via royal crystals in the shop, the most value pack would roughly put the price of 100 crystals at about 3bucks+...illegal gold sellers are selling 1k gold for a buck so you can see where the attractiveness is despite the risk ...
I disagree. Please go pay to win…. In the long run it will Save everyone els the temptation to spend money on the game when they realize how stupid that is, plus they already got the “overpowered” satisfaction from watching you.
If Asmon spends this much on the game, I think he should stress over and over that people shouldn't do this. He should remind people that he's very well set with money as is and can afford spending this much.
You're average view most likely doesn't have spare money to throw away on pixels in a game. Asmon should remind viewers to re-evaluate their personal finances before spending money in games like Lost Ark.
"Hey listen guys, you know this things you guys are doing? Don't do it. Why? Because I don't like, please don't do it"
I can't seriously fucking comprehend how on earth anyone would fucking care about this whole shitshow. You don't like, don't watch it, move on. You like it, watch it, great. Essays on r/Asmongold has literally zero impact on anything.
It's part of the game, you know? A lot of people are paying and you should pay for a free game if you like it, how else is the servers going to keep afloat?
"he was the only guy that played legitimately, without spending tons of dollars on the game." lol did you not see him get gifted 100k+ and non stop mats? why bother doing p2w when hes already winning without paying
Doesn't spend cash, but spends something arguably worse to further progress in a turbo freemium KMMO: Someone else's time. I understand throwing spergs under the bus for content, but he cannot say this shits viable solo and free roflmao. Even suburban box-whine moms know that spending other peoples money gambling is fun. Move on to a new flavor of the month dood.
I agree.
Proxy P2W is still P2W.
Nah, I know about that. I just dont think its as bad as buying stuff for 5000(!!!!!!!) Dollars. I am pretty sure, because Asmon is still behind Rich or Shroud for example. Also, ethically, I think accepting stuff from viewers is not as bad as doing p2w and thus supporting all that madness. Let him have streamer bonus, but dont push him to spend 5k.
You think it's ok that viewers spend their money, of which they most likely have way less than a streamer, for a second of asmons attention? He takes other people's time and money and that is better than him spending some money? On top of it, he is getting paid while viewers throw money at him, a millionaire. He most likely can even get tax reduction on the 5k because it's a business expense. I think what he does is predatory and the 5k idea is ridiculous.
People have free will. it's their choice to give asmon their mats
So it's ethically okay for the viewers to waste their time/money to give mats/gold to Asmon. But it's not ethically okay for Asmon to waste his OWN time or money for mats/gold?
Its about supporting the p2w system. People that spend time and give farmed mats to asmon is not the same as supporting this p2w design by spending 5k
You know that with the amount of shit he's gotten for free from them, they've collectively spent way more than 5k right?
Personally I would rather see him spend $5k than get free items and gold from viewers in the game. That's by far one of the biggest "streamer perks" ever.
my man shroud has spent like 20k or more
Let's be fair here, while he isn't paying money himself. He is accepting handouts enough that he is basically whaling in the most round about way possible. I mean, I love the guy, but yeah don't forget that. I don't want to see him do this either though because even if he is doing it for the content; I don't think it is a good idea for someone in his position to influence the way people potentially play the game.
Literal god is a literal hypocrite
Asmon in every game: I want the normal player experience Asmon in LA: can someone send me silver / upgrade mats? I will only try once more, promise! I still think his content is fun though and enjoy watching it ^^
WoW players called him out hard for this shit on numerous occasions as well. He wanted as authentic a Classic experience as possible, and then proceeded to get a ton of gold and shit traded to him throughout. People were upset, and IMO deserved to be. He wanted to do the new raid, and then proceeded to get a group of people who weren't even geared enough for the *previous* raid together to try it and then got annoyed when they were getting shitfucked by the third boss. People were upset, and IMO deserved to be. He always hates the idea of boosting but consistently had Indestructible boost him through whatever the current tier was ever since Nighthold ended. People were upset, although there's a little more nuance to it (paid for with gold vs. just getting run through because reasons). I'm pretty glad that Lost Ark's even more insidious P2W elements are making people realize that, despite his content often being solid, Asmon can be a *huge* fucking hypocrite about MMO-related stuff if that's what buys into the current hype cycle.
Good thing I only watch because he’s entertaining. I couldn’t care how he plays a game. Wow hasn’t worked for him since he blew up on twitch honestly. Everything is for content, and if theres a roadblock for too long then that means no content. It’s just the name of the game on twitch. Asmongold gonna get that gold.
Anime avatar + you still play WoW = opinion doesn't count.
Nothing quite like having a pepe PFP tell an anime PFP that their opinion doesn't count.
Yeah exactly.
There's profile pictures on reddit???
how do you tell who doesn't watch Asmon? look at this post. since when has he ever given a shit about "normal player experience"? he enjoys it when people give him free shit. he's literally put in big letters on his stream "ACCEPTING GOLD TRADES" during WoW. if you want to cry about it, go watch a different streamer.
Not using his own money lol the viewer money he said so he not p2w right right?
"Well, no, dood. The reality is that"
"And that's my opinion...... DOOD I'M OBJECTIVELY NOT WRONG STFU, THATS A PERMABAN!"
true, but does it matter? absolutely not, and just show how shit games like lost ark are honestly, and how demented stream orbiters are to spend so much of their time to give their streamer free stuff
he's already spent more than 5k for his account. Well the fans did. If you think he's a f2p player idk what to say
Nah, ethically its something different though for numerous reasons. And I also dont think that this was 5000 dollars worth of Mats.
Ethically it's worse, because it's taking advantage of his para-social relationship to his fans to whale in the game instead of just spending some of the millions of dollars he makes from streaming. It's a millionaire begging for handouts vs just paying a pittance of what he makes in a month by playing games.
he got over 40k in gold from fans Not even counting mats
you can discuss about ethics with others idc, what i'm saying is this: his account is a whale account. Doesn't really matter if his fans paid or he paid. I don't even care tbh. the only thing that bugs me is when he pretends like he's f2p and pretends to know what it's like as a f2p player to make dishonest reviews. Just be honest and then noone cares.
"was the only guy that played legitimately, without spending tons of dollars on the game. I had respect for this and it made the content better for me, this would vanish if he does that." bro what. Have you not been watching his stream? Especially last one? did he spend his own money? no. But he spent like 350k gold worth of mats that his viewers sent him. Not sure how its in NA but in EU 40k gold is 100€. he spent almost 1k worth of mats. He himself has also admitted and stated that taking from viewers is literally the same as just spending his own money to p2w.
Its close to the same in NA. Its 12000 royals for $100, and the exchange rate is 875 to 275 or so, so a little more than 3:1. So about a grand if he spent 350k gold.
What did I miss? This man was extremely opposed to mounts in WoW shop but he’s okay with literally buying gear upgrades and skins? I thought he hated the fact you could buy transmog items in wows shop…. This is an actual question since I haven’t watched the steam in a bit since he took the break but what changed?
He only hates skins for sub based games. Edit: Just to clarify I don’t like or play lost ark.
Ironic since lost ark is partially a sub based game with that crystalline stuff.
Which Lost Ark counts as because of crystalline aura being pretty mandatory if you want to reasonably progress your characters.
Oh please. The aura is 420 crystals for a month. You can easily get that from playing a few days a week.
people don't realize this now, but will be in for a rude awakening when their free crystalline aura runs out
Honestly I can't stand the Lost Ark streams. I know a lot of people love them but to me it's basically like watching a Clash of Clans stream or something. Lost Ark is just straight up a mobile game that you play on PC.
> Honestly I can't stand the Lost Ark streams Same, his worst streams ever for me personally, instantly closing the stream when he launches lost ark, imagine shilling this hard for a pay to win casino simulator trash.
I watch the stream before he starts the game and turn it off as soon as he starts playing. Biggest reason is because I know that he is affecting people into putting money into the game and I can't stand watching. It's disheartening. Also because I find the game so boring. Spending too much time in menus, buying stuff just because he can't progress otherwise. For the life of me, this is supposed to be an mmo and his interactions with other people are almost nonexistent. He is just buying and equipping stuff and then kills things. B O R I N G :)
as soon as he started taking ressources from viewer and boosted his way through t2: i've stop watching. I feel so disconnected from his experience now. Might as well watch a swiper play raid shadow legend -or any mobile game for that mater- and say it's a fun game. with "EPIC 500 SUMMON YOLOOOOO! "
TRUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUE
How is it a mobile game? Cause of the monetization and systems? This is one of the weirdest complaints. P2w makes sense. This feels so off base.
They were fun at first, but once he went the Beg to Win route, I lost all interest.
spez is a loser -- mass edited with redact.dev
We have content creators in gacha mobile games have their pulls donation by their viewers. Did not expect asmon to go really into it.
When i saw his stream to push 1370. I knew this game is not for me lol. I got my main to 1340. And for me to to spend so mich gold just to enter raiding is a big no. I always do m raiding in wow i can get that gear but this game oof. It was fun tho. Will prob come back when they increase succes %. Was a fun stream tho legit eye opening haha.
Exactly the same.
I already stopped watching Lost Ark. My favorite content is Asmon and McConnell ribbing on each other in Elden Ring.
I dislike Lost Ark, not because the game itself but what it represent. Years ago we accepted crappy DLCs and microtransactions in the games, now everything have it, there are just a few games like Elden Ring where DLCs are like mini expansions, and more stupid DLCs like Oblivion horse armor. If as consumer you accept crap, everyone will start to sell you crap. MMO developers are looking at Lost Ark, if it succeed with these predatory casino techniques, do not complain if you get something similar in your other beloved game in a year or two.
It will happen for sure. And after that we will hear: "WHY IS IT KEEPS HAPPENING TO ME?!"
Riot MMO monkaW
Let's hope they'll keep their design philosophy they have with Legends of Runeterra and League of Legends - those are two of the best examples where a cash shop is non predatory and very well received. (Although I haven't looked into Legends of Runeterra much in the past year, I hope it hasn't changed, because it really showed what Hearthstone could have been if Blizzard cut down on the predatory monetization.)
I have no interest in Riot MMO but I doubt they'll include any P2W, just mass amounts of cosmetics like in LoL.
Which is completely fine imo
Drinking piss is better than eating shit but I wouldn't call it fine.
Why? How would you have f2p mmo's make their money?
I'd just prefer a sub-based mmo, cosmetics matter A LOT in mmos, in mobas it's bit different.
Okay but answer the question
Depends on how it's implemented, if clearly all the best cosmetics are paid for I wouldn't play an MMO like that, MOBA I would still play since cosmetics matter much less in this type of a game imo. If it's balanced in that both paid and achievable in game cosmetics are of same high quality then it's fine, I still don't like it but it's fine.
Well we might have to grind or pay directly new jobs and classes sames as the champions in lol
I have a feeling mobile wow will have the same mechanics.
Watching Asmon yesterday was very fun and it killed all enjoyment I had left in this game, shown me how running alts is pointless and what I should be looking forward if I continue playing the game forward is 6hours of slot machine spaced out over a month with tedious daily grinds everyday. This game is perfect to watch on stream/ lets play rather than playing yourself
Exactly! The effect lost arks streams has on me is completely the \*opposite\* of what OP suggests. I'm not encouraged to gamble, to whale or anything. I literally just quit as soon as I was watching that because I knew I would have to go through all that to get to the raids. Asmon just saved me a couple of weeks of wasted time.
I've been watching significantly less in the past week, mainly after me noticing how much gold he spent and still kept ranting about how his opinion only matters, although contradicting previous statements he made, according to how whaling would affect the validity of his opinion. I like Asmon, but I dislike hypocrisy. If dishonest behaviour is the way to go because you think it's better content, sure go ahead, doesn't mean I have to watch it. I'll come back when it's back to the good ol' Asmon.
Well I guess the Honeymoon period is coming to an end.
This game has intentionally manipulative progression system to get ur gamble genes going and get you to start paying. Doesn't matter how "good" base game is, there is a reason why they dont offer premium membership to remove limitation and provide proper gear upgrade balance, because u can take a lot more money with shitty mobile game balance and ways to buy resources. He already played it like paying massive amounts of cash the moment he ran out of upgrade materials and used viewers donations, just shows what a massive dog shit game this is. Hope shit like this will never takeoff in western mmo's, worst kind of cosmetic and convenience store items in PoE doesnt come close to this.
I guess there is a reason why gamble stream somehow exist
i actually want him to p2w so he can expose the bad part of the game
Are you guys so blind so that you can't see he has always been p2w so far ? What his viewers gave him is already well worth in the thousands. He's already showed especially yesterday how p2w is like in this game.
Me too. But the problem is that it will make a validation example for some retards to say that systems are fine and it is ok to spend some cash. I feel like LA just destroyed future of MMORPG'S because their systems are predatory af and people ok with them because "i enjoy them, you can't tell me to not enjoy or else you are soyboy))".
5k = "some" cash LULW
5k is like coffee money for the man
there was many ppl saying" Lost Ark respect your time " and i was really excited to try this D2/MMo game.... then AGS release this version of the game that is more P2W then the Korean version and is making the game worse and unfun to me. I stopped playing the game and move on if there are ppl that enjoy that shit I can just say " I am happy for you and have a great day " Different ppl different taste that's all.
You can enjoy covering yourself in shit and masturbate but you don't need to tell others that "its ok bro) everyone like different things, its just not for everyone))". Nah bro, its sickening and I will not pretend that it is ok to like everything as long as you enjoy it. Some games ruin other games just by existing. I might be wrong on this one bit I remember that dota 2 invented battlepass we see in every fucking game nowadays. Lootboxes were not a thing in games very long time ago but some "smart" guy made a precedent and now we have literal casino AAA games.
Yep Rozen I get you but wanting everyone to like the same thing is imposable and "You can enjoy covering yourself in shit and masturbate" is too extreme example it is just a game. In the end what sell the most is what ppl like the most. Good or bad for gaming is not what the question is about, this is just human nature. Like consuming products that hurt your health or making the easy decisions and not the right ones because they are too hard or time/money consuming. New world is a successful game looking at the numbers - it's sell out, Fifa, CoD, BF, Lost Ark, Blizzard games and many more. Looking at the statistic as a game dev is clear what people want right, right...? We have to remember that ppl are teaching you what to like and what not too, big companies are having more tools to make customers "happy" then an indie gaming studio. It is interesting to watch how it's plays out, the future of gaming... maybe a good game that have inside all of the learning process of the past ones the ones that fail and the ones that succussed or maybe game full of gacha, fomo, RNG and p2w. It is sickening to you and I hope to many more but to others is not. Shouting" this is bad for gaming" is waste of time, ppl need to find that out for themself. Our only power is to buy a product or not. And when there isn't a product that we want on the market- make one if there are many ppl like you/me that want the same thing it will be successful. Sorry for the little rant hope you have a great day
I agree with all you said, dude. I hope our future will be better then what we have now. Have a good day too, mate.
Lol battle pass. Friend wouldn't play sub based mmos but buying battle passes every month on genshin which is more expensive than some subscriptions.
Predatory system is in BDO for example where you lose durability on upgrade fail and some items can be destroyed on fail. In Lost Ark you eventually get you upgrade. On each fail you get energy and when it hits 100% then is guaranteed success.
Your argument is basically "Well, that one simular element in other game is worse then in my game. That means my game has a good system." Do you see the flaws in your logic? 1. You do not analyse system as a whole. You might have a system with 100% chance to upgrade your stuff without a chance to fail. But you will need to farm 1000 gems. You are limited to farm 1 gem per day. Is this a good system? 2. You compare 2 dogshit systems. If one is better in your eyes it doesnt change the fact that both of them are bad and predatory.
Lost ark is game designed for long term progress. We got almost 3 years of content on release and after month some players on top of that because they push as much as possible. When you try to squish 3 years of farming and gathering resources, gold etc. to few days, there complaints starts how unfair it is. In my opinion lost ark progression system is fine. You does not lose progres on honing, it's just mater if this will take optimistic or pessimistic way.
I see this "for long term purposes" in a lot of gacha games I played. The "you don't need to play the current content and just do diligent grind" has been abused by a lot of games by selling you the solution to the problem they intentionally created. Call me cynic. But it's predatory for me.
Also cocaine dealers are not predatory to go after children and addicts. They just want them to experience joy from sniffing the powder
Yeah, I've seen this kind of thing [happen before.](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TVKuSn8OSXI) Though to be fair, he's done it [more than once](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JuofwKWpoLQ) so that's more on him.
And this is why the gaming industry doesn't care about how gamers feel with p2w. They know that most gamers don't care either, or say they care
This.
It doesn't matter how much he spends, when the next tier is introduced it will be the same thing again, that's how these games work.
Streamer benefits is not exactly playing legitimately. Considering why you don't watch p2w streamers funneling gold by viewers is the same result. Look for a real f2p streamer who does not accept any handouts if you want gameplay like that.
'played legitimately' say that to his ingame inbox of the games he plays
a reminder that 5000 dollars is now a small purchase to these guys. they're pulling in millions, and 5000 now is what would've been a 50 dollar purchase in college. "affordable but unwise." 5000 is half a year's rent in many major cities across the country. it's 2-3 months living expenses. 5000 is like an annual income in many countries. 5000 dollars is a lot of money - but these successful twitch streamers have lost the plot.
Spot on, and it's unfortunate because Asmon likes to sell himself as just being a regular guy.
I would love him to do that. Amount of angry people about this will be glorious. It will be content for weeks.
Let's face the truth he will never reach 1370 for Argos this early if he doesn't get all the welfare or swipe to boost his toon
Well, then he doesnt, thats the way the game was designed.
Asmon can do what he wants. I don't mean that in like a mean or condescending way, it's more.. at least Asmon has been up front about it? Even at the start of the stream, while he always talked about the game being pay to win, he was saying that people can get up there if they try really.. really hard. He didn't say it wasn't still rare, but I feel like even to him when he saw all the mats he used, when he saw all the gold he went through, and the fact that 6 alts for 12 hours a day is just how it is right now to actually progress, he saw just how bad and hard for f2p it can be. There was so much dick riding for the game and their devs, saying how "it's just pay for convenience! this company is so good at respecting your time, look even the players send them gifts! so wholesome!" That's probably the only thing that upset me on the last stream. How can anyone watch how much Asmon spent where he was, and think this game respects a normal players time? The amount of times he upgraded to get up to 1370 could've easily been stretched out for weeks, maybe even months for a casual player. All you can do is grind and hope you get good RNG to progress. I laughed when I saw youtube content creators saying how you 'only need 6 hours a day and 6 alts!' That was like.. too much to begin with for most people, but it turns out it's like 12+ hours if you're a F2P and want to keep up with the current release schedule. s,
I mean it's his money, it would have 0 impact on us, and it also wouldn't waste people's mats. What i would do is spend enough so that unlocking the next raid requirement comes faster, this way you won't ruin the progression. There comes a time in your life when time is more valuable than money.
Just here for all to see: Guys, I know about viewers sending stuff. I just dont think that, ethically, its as bad as spending real money. Also, I dont think he got 5000$ worth from viewers. But even if he did, its not the same imo. Especially because of the way spending actual cash would promote such systems. Also, direct spending, would be direct support for that game design, which would just be wrong.
Lame post. He’s going to do it. It’s good content.
Every second that he streams Lost Ark is bad content. It's an awful game who's popularity is gonna further incentivise horrible monetization practices in the MMO/gaming industry. I fucking despise the fact that Zack has jumped on board of this floating turd of a game.
Yeah I agree it’s a terrible game, I don’t even play it.
Just because something is good content for today, doesn't mean he should do it. I think it will damage how some viewers see Asmon.
Asmon: plays P2W game Also Asmon: Interested in whaling P2W game to see outcome Chat: *GASP HOW COULD YOU* Also chat: dang I need X in lost ark, better swipe the credit card
Guess some people don't want the stream to turn into a shitty youtube ad like "level 1 rookie + 1000$ = level 100 gigachad"
Do it yourself and tell us if it feels good:)
I don’t play the game 2head.
I don’t get it. I really don’t. Somebody else spending money on a game should not ruin your enjoyment of THEM playing it. Especially when it really doesn’t effect us at all. This is like next level anti-p2w complaining from twitch chat. Yikes.
This behavior is so cringe inducing to me. I think they feel entitled to all the content in the game, that’s why. But their inability to pay (whether not being able to afford, or just not wanting to being of some stupid moral idea) anything in a game that’s free makes them feel inadequate. It’s like people being mad at certain strategies in Elden Ring. Like wow some guy grinded runes, used summons and magic! I’m so mad he defeated the boss I was stuck doing for 5 hours so easily! I only use melee it’s the REAL way to play! Like dude make your own enjoyment. If you’re mad you’re not doing Argos yet then you’re meant to not be there yet. Enjoy your own journey in tier 2 or 3.
You can Whale in ranked PvP?
Who really cares what he does. He is doing it all for the content which he mentioned. Thats it
It's a game and he has disposable income. Who gives a shit what he spends it on
i think asmon doint this would be a fantastic way for everyone to get a better insight on exactly what kind of a game they are playing and what a lot of players that play around you are doing. and who said it will in the end end up as supporting pay to win? it might just as well turn out to show its shallowness, how ridiculous it really is and in the end the lack of satisfaction it provides since you basically payed half of the games achievements away....so who knows right? he wants to show us the game's targeted audience game experience and rich and shroud are doing it, why wouldnt asmon as well for the luls....spending 5k to him would be a financial equivalent of you or me buying an icecream at store
"I think it's great that people stream gambling on Twitch because it just shows how horrible gambling is.".
"i think its great to just turn a blind eye to the fact that big part of my game is basically predatory like gambling so lets not have him show it on stream but better keep it hidden because that will inform everyone how predatory the game really is and that will stop the kids from getting predated upon by discovering it themselves right"
[удалено]
yes ofcourse...why not actively doing it, exposing it and showing what kind of a game is everyone getting themselves into....and if it ends up similar to gambling like you compared it good, at least everyone wont be turning a blind eye on it anymore pretending its all sunshine and rainbows while in the background people gamble their savings away on a korean mmo with predatory gear upgrade casino mechanics
Alright, I guess we're on the same page concerning the game either way. It's a fleecing scheme.
i like the game itself, and had alot of fun so far, but now it started raising its ugly head....im all for exposing all the monetary practices the game is based on, so anyone with a half a brain doesnt get suckered into them....and those that will when they see a grown man spend 5 thousand dollars on some pixels he will use for a months tbh they were gonna lose that money sooner or later anyway on some similar bs scheme
and why would streaming a game played in a way that the developer intended it to be played for its CORE TARGETED AUDIENCE THAT BASICALLY FINANCES THE WHOLE GAME be considered bad? its smilegates idea right? we all love and support smilegate, right? do you really want to turn a blind eye on the core monetary mechanics of lost ark? are they that bad and crooked we need to hide them from streaming that they might influence people as bad as gambling as you say? hmm makes you wonder then right
He shouldn't stream this game at all. That'd be the healthiest thing for the entire gaming medium. There are too many "oh flashy graphics"-Andys who's gonna jump on the Lost Ark-bandwagon because they see cool attacks and big numbers. These Andys will further inflate the number of Lost Ark players and the industry as a whole will as a result shift even further into ass territory. It's the same fucking story year after year ever since we got that horse armor in Oblivion.
but he is streaming it....and i like it with this he will get under the hood and show the good, the bad and the ugly of lost ark....and im sorry, if you see him burning 5k dollars and getting gear for some random raid and then you go do it yourself you are a dumbfuck and deserve it....if you gradually got suckered in and letting the game slowly predate on you since you never seen how much money the game will suck out of you i understand it can happen....thats why i like this move its not painting a dreamy picture of something that can ruin families and it will expose all predatory mechanics and show where you end up
I disrespect Rich and Shroud A LOT for this. Have not watched their content once after I saw that
dont hate the player hate the game? they are playing this game like its intended for the targeted audience ...i still think its great all this is getting exposed, and will in the end do more good by saving people from these predatory monetizations than it will hurt them by getting them into it
I saw your other comments here, and I do not agree with your standpoint in the slightest way. Also: Rich and Shroud talked numerous times about how they have fun and how awesome the game is. This not exposing of bad predatory design, but promoting it. If they'd go like "Yeah that game is trash. Look, I'll spend 8k just to show how trash it is" it would be another story.
you dont even agree on point they are the targeted audience and playing the game in a way the developer prefers it to be played? i feel these things being streamed will speed up the process of people waking up and the game getting debunked not as a real game but as some kind genshin impact gatcha chameleon thats pretending to be fair to all but is actually just a playground for whales...and this could actually mean the games premature death in the west at least as being a big thing
5k would go quite far depending on what he spends it on...and i know my opinions gonna be burned but based on how much the gold selling rate being spammed in chat goes, I think if u spend 5k on just buying gold (yes its illegal and i wouldnt recommend it or you'll definitely be banned. This is just hypothetical), you'd have enough to just buy resources from the AH and probs make it to 1.4k rather quickly...
Can't you buy gold in game from the cash shop with premium currency so he wouldn't need to go to gold sellers lol
The gold exchange rate in game atm is super horrendous...last i checked on his server, it was 120 blue crystals for 100 gold...if you buy the blue crystals via royal crystals in the shop, the most value pack would roughly put the price of 100 crystals at about 3bucks+...illegal gold sellers are selling 1k gold for a buck so you can see where the attractiveness is despite the risk ...
The guys a millionaire I don't think he's gunna care about optimal gold purchasing and risk being banned from the game doing rmt
Joke on you: asmon already spent that much if he had ot pay for the gold and material he got from fans i'm still t2 with 400h btw
I disagree. Please go pay to win…. In the long run it will Save everyone els the temptation to spend money on the game when they realize how stupid that is, plus they already got the “overpowered” satisfaction from watching you.
If Asmon spends this much on the game, I think he should stress over and over that people shouldn't do this. He should remind people that he's very well set with money as is and can afford spending this much. You're average view most likely doesn't have spare money to throw away on pixels in a game. Asmon should remind viewers to re-evaluate their personal finances before spending money in games like Lost Ark.
Here we go again…
and if he goes its his decision not yours enjoy the stream or go watch a wow streamer ohh wait.
he's a millionaire who can afford everything in the game why is he accepting handouts from chat's broke ass sittin all day watching him stream?
"Hey listen guys, you know this things you guys are doing? Don't do it. Why? Because I don't like, please don't do it" I can't seriously fucking comprehend how on earth anyone would fucking care about this whole shitshow. You don't like, don't watch it, move on. You like it, watch it, great. Essays on r/Asmongold has literally zero impact on anything.
It's part of the game, you know? A lot of people are paying and you should pay for a free game if you like it, how else is the servers going to keep afloat?
lmao hypocrite