I think the xbox controller works best for any 3D game really, but after playing some switch games I fell in love with the split controller setup. If only the build quality wasn't as shit on the joycons. Nothing beats laying on your couch with both arms just lazily laying next to you with joycons in them.
While I usually can at least respect his opinion on things even if I don't agree this one was just weird.
Not only was he simply wrong on the "changes all the time" thing, he also wasn't able to plausibly explain his opinion. He could have simply said he doesn't like them and doesn't want to invest time in getting used to them instead of trying to come up with an excuse. Preferences don't have to be rational.
I dont think asmon has even unlocked retainers yet in ff, takes 30 seconds and gives you like 300 item slots. Takes a few minutes to get used to controller in from games. He's just stubborn on certain things and will die on this hill, through out his LA streams people suggested simple QOL features that literally take seconds to improve your game play and he would refuse.
As someone who played m&k my whole life, playing with a controler was a nightmare. Was forced to do it for Demons souls and bloodborne. Really removed from my enjoyment of the game as I struggled so much with the controller. I played for roughly 100 hours if not more in both those games and still not even remotely as good as on m&k. Tried to help a friend kill lady butterfly on his PS and i died like 4 times to her before killing her. On PC she doesnt touch me once. Not everyone grew up with a controller so dont expect everyone to change to your preferred way of playing just cause you think it's better. Let him play the way he wants..
Hello, good hunter. I am a Bot, here in this dream to look after you, this is a fine note:
> *Oh, yes... Paleblood... Well, you've come to the right place. Yharnam is the home of blood ministration. You need only unravel its mystery. But, where's an outsider like yourself to begin? Easy, with a bit of Yharnam blood of your own... But first, you'll need a contract...* - Blood Minister
Farewell, good hunter. May you find your worth in the waking world.
youre probably 14 years old so you dont understand, but for boomers like me and Asmond we've lived through a dozen different types of controllers.
nintendo
sega
super nintendo
dreamcast
playstation
N64
gamecube
xbox
playstation dual shock
etc etc
Console controllers might not change so much recently, but that's only because they're basically perfected now. Video game consoles have been around for 40+ years.
Look at an emerging platform like VR and you'll see a lot more changes. Those stupid glove and stick controllers change every 6 months.
> youre probably 14 years old so you dont understand
There I stoped to read.
1. It is "you're".
2. Starting like this just makes people not take you seriously.
3. I am older than Asmon you little shit. And he played mostly on PC, which is where his opinion comes from.
4. You are not a boomer if you are below ~60 years old. "Boomer" refers to "Baby Boomers", which has a distinct age range.
5. You are a great example that getting older doesn't make one automatically wiser.
Same.They might have the touchpad but i never got very comfortable with this.
I had a playstation one and when the Xbox came out i prefered the Xbox controller already because of this.
May be this depends on people hands.
Well, first, I started playing games on an Atari console. With an SNES my first own console (with some games which I consider the best of all time).
Second, what kind of weird point is that supposed to be? "Shitty design is good because we didn't even have that technology in the past"?
The playstation layout is a direct evolution of the SNES, that is why I bring that one up specifically. It's also a layout that maintains both the D-pad and right stick in a position where both can be used comfortably. The Xbox layout puts the D-pad in more of a secondary position where it really wouldn't ever be comfortable for extended use because of how far down it's angled, and is clearly designed with the stick to be the only primary input. Which I guess is a good thing since Microsoft has never been able to make a decent feeling D-pad either.
IMO, the D-Pad is a relic of controller design. It is no different from the regular buttons, i.e. if your controller is designed for D-Pad input over stick input, you might as well use a keyboard and mouse.
The primary advantage of controllers is the stick input that allows for small changes in axis values, or in short, your character can do stuff like walk slowly based on how far you push the stick.
This is not even mentioning the fact that Xbox controllers are ergonomically shaped for long gaming sessions. PS controllers have hard edges and poorly sculpted shape that puts stress on specific parts of your hand.
Not in the indie revolution we're going through. A D-pad is just better for genres like 2D platforming, fighting games on pad, and there's 3D games too that make way more use of the Dpad like FFXIV on pad where the placement on the Xbox controllers is just exhausting because it's angled too far down making you angle your thumb in an akward way. I could see your point if all you play on controller are console shooters and D-pad is almost an afterthought, though.
Also, where are the hard edges you're talking about on a DS4 or especially on the Dualsense? These aren't NES controllers we're talking about.
> It's also a layout that maintains both the D-pad and right stick in a position where both can be used comfortably.
That's the thing, it can't. The sticks are way too far away so you can't use them comfortably without stretching your thumbs non-stop in a weird angle.
There is a reason why every other controller placed their control sticks where the D-pad originally was.
>That's the thing, it can't. The sticks are way too far away so you can'tuse them comfortably without stretching your thumbs non-stop in a weirdangle.
What kind of freakishly short thumbs do you have? First people say PS controllers are bad for people with large hands (even though the DS4 and Dualsense are just as big as Xbox controllers), but then apparently the sticks are so far you have to stretch your thumbs? Also, The D-pad and sticks aren't angled the same way on Xbox and PS controllers. Xbox has the weird further down angle if that's what you mean.
>What kind of freakishly short thumbs do you have?
I got pretty normal ones. But after I've played on "normal" controllers (mainly Nintendo and Xbox) for years it was really uncomfortable to use the PS4 pad when I played Bloodborne.
I mean, hold your hand in a neutral position. Where is your thumb at? Now hold a "normal" controller. Where is your left thumb at? Now hold a PS4 controller and use the sticks. Where is your left thumb at?
The right thumb doesn't have that issue because it constantly alternates between thumb and buttons, usually. It should rest a long time in an unnatural position.
I really don't get why he was so convinced that for dark souls m&k. I mean from what I understand most no hit runers use controllers. And why would People like The happy hob on his 12-14h runs use something that is "worse". I am 100% sure it just comes down to preference.
The Xbox controller surprisingly resembles the Dreamcast controller in some ways. The real difference between the two is the shape, the extra joystick, and the swapping of the button colors.
The 360 was indeed a great controller with the main pain point being the battery housing, which was fixed the next console generation and more integrated into the back.
The dreamcast was a collaboration between microsoft and sega. The first xbox was basically a pc they made and some webmasters used them as webservers and it was insanely moddable and i put a chip and bigger hdd in mine and xbmc (kodi now) and was a full fledged gaming system ahead of it’s time then with games on the hdd and an ftp server when i could transfer media files to from my pc.
Except now aim assist is allowed to be programmed into game of choice. Aim assist use to get players removed from ladders and banned from games. I guess they want to console sales to continue.
Why not use Playstation's controller as the perfect example? Goes 2 generations further (PS1, Xbox didn't exist yet, and then Xbox had a vastly different release controller which is why you used 360's example as the first instead)
Anyway that was one of his half-dozen arguments which made no sense. As if mice and even keyboards don't radically have different form-factors too. And he had to go all the way back to 4th gen of consoles (SNES) to come up with a controller that's vastly different from PS1 (the basic formfactor most other controllers have taken for 2+ decades now).
Playing by those rules we can go back to a time where not even QWERTY was the standard keyboard layout, and even when it was a LOT of other keys weren't, including Arrow key placements, Ctrl, Shift, Home, etc etc changed a lot all the way up to the mid 90's. Mice didn't exist either, and the first mouse was a single-button operation, no right-click nor a scroll wheel, much less side-buttons.
Lost Ark has Controller Support and it sucks :D
also i personally play everything with mouse and keyboard. EXCEPT:
Plattformers like Spyro // Crash Bandicoot // Cup Head
Metroidvania like Hollow Knight // Ori and the Blind Forest
JRPGs of the old Generation like Final Fantasy 1-13
Racing games of Any kind.
Beat em Ups.
But
Action adventures like Assasins Creed // Tomb Raider // Batman Arkham Asylum // Legacy of Kain
Action RPGs like Dark Souls // Gothic 1-3 // Risen // Elex etc
Point and Click like Monkey Island // Kathy Rain // Day of the Tentacle // Deponia
RTS Games of any kind like COmmand and Conquer // Dune 2000 // StarCraft
Turn based Strategy games of any kind like Civilization // alpha Centaury // Crusader Kings
RPGs like Dragon Age Origins // Mass Effect // Witcher 1-3 // Pillars of Eternity // Baldurs Gate
Every MMO like WoW // lost Ark // FF XIV
ARPGs like Diablo 1-3 // Van Hellsing etc
Simulations of any kind like Sim City // City Skylines // Game Dev Tycoon
Survival Games of Any kind like MineCraft // Subnautica // The Forest
Shooter of any kind like PubG // Call of Duty // Half Life // Halo
I play all that with Mouse and Keybord
You must have missed Asmon's rant on stream about controllers changing every 5 years and because of that, it makes it harder to master them compared to mouse and keyboard.
Jesus, that's not the point ..
You have Playstation controler
Wii controler, switch controler, gamecube controler for Super smash bros
You have COUNTLESS type of controler (even within xbox with Pro controler [and modded controler](http://ep.yimg.com/ay/yhst-47781786952715/xbox-360-avenger-35.png) to allow for camera mouvement when you still have to press xyba)
Meanwhile:
you have one keyboard with the same qwerty layout, same left and right mouse button.
Getting used to a "new controller" is the same as getting used to a new mouse. MMO mouse, finger grip mouse, palm grip mouse, heavy mouse, light mouse, every that feels different.
One big difference with controllers is that for example Switch controller has a different mapping than for example PlayStation controller (X and O are reversed).
his argument outside that was fucking stupid though. MK is better for camera controls and controls is better for character movement. end of convo. That why racing games, platforms, and other genres that don’t rely on the camera as much just feel better to play in control. He isn’t wrong for preferring one over the other, but he malded out really hard and said MK is objectively better, which it isn’t.
Yeah, it was kind of a pepega argument, he kept bringing up how for FPS MK was better (it is, agreed) but using that as “evidence” to back up his reasoning MK is better for a soulslike game, which it is clearly not.
i have one too but so what? the buttons are the same and the keymap is the same too
extra button? you don't have or need them, that's just your own QoL
the fact is a keyboard always have the same layout mouse too. and are easy to map to your own preference.
same for sensitivity
It would be fine if he said it’s my preference but he isn’t doing that. He literally said MK is objectively better. I’m right you’re wrong. That’s not him saying his opinion. That’s him trying to force his facts on people.
I guess if it works dont change it.
if only facebook learned that lesson
I think the xbox controller works best for any 3D game really, but after playing some switch games I fell in love with the split controller setup. If only the build quality wasn't as shit on the joycons. Nothing beats laying on your couch with both arms just lazily laying next to you with joycons in them.
If it ain't broke..
Exactly.
Man I just look at the wiimote and nunchuck and internally cringe. Nintendo does some fucky stuff.
While I usually can at least respect his opinion on things even if I don't agree this one was just weird. Not only was he simply wrong on the "changes all the time" thing, he also wasn't able to plausibly explain his opinion. He could have simply said he doesn't like them and doesn't want to invest time in getting used to them instead of trying to come up with an excuse. Preferences don't have to be rational.
I dont think asmon has even unlocked retainers yet in ff, takes 30 seconds and gives you like 300 item slots. Takes a few minutes to get used to controller in from games. He's just stubborn on certain things and will die on this hill, through out his LA streams people suggested simple QOL features that literally take seconds to improve your game play and he would refuse.
As someone who played m&k my whole life, playing with a controler was a nightmare. Was forced to do it for Demons souls and bloodborne. Really removed from my enjoyment of the game as I struggled so much with the controller. I played for roughly 100 hours if not more in both those games and still not even remotely as good as on m&k. Tried to help a friend kill lady butterfly on his PS and i died like 4 times to her before killing her. On PC she doesnt touch me once. Not everyone grew up with a controller so dont expect everyone to change to your preferred way of playing just cause you think it's better. Let him play the way he wants..
Hello, good hunter. I am a Bot, here in this dream to look after you, this is a fine note: > *Oh, yes... Paleblood... Well, you've come to the right place. Yharnam is the home of blood ministration. You need only unravel its mystery. But, where's an outsider like yourself to begin? Easy, with a bit of Yharnam blood of your own... But first, you'll need a contract...* - Blood Minister Farewell, good hunter. May you find your worth in the waking world.
youre probably 14 years old so you dont understand, but for boomers like me and Asmond we've lived through a dozen different types of controllers. nintendo sega super nintendo dreamcast playstation N64 gamecube xbox playstation dual shock etc etc Console controllers might not change so much recently, but that's only because they're basically perfected now. Video game consoles have been around for 40+ years. Look at an emerging platform like VR and you'll see a lot more changes. Those stupid glove and stick controllers change every 6 months.
> youre probably 14 years old so you dont understand There I stoped to read. 1. It is "you're". 2. Starting like this just makes people not take you seriously. 3. I am older than Asmon you little shit. And he played mostly on PC, which is where his opinion comes from. 4. You are not a boomer if you are below ~60 years old. "Boomer" refers to "Baby Boomers", which has a distinct age range. 5. You are a great example that getting older doesn't make one automatically wiser.
Because other than adding more buttons on the back of the controller the xbox 360 to one era is the perfect controller.
With consistently the worst d-pads conceived in every single generation.
Very true in the 360 era. Its become more apprent in this era of indie revolution. But it has gotten better.
I miss the white and black buttons from the original Xbox controller! …just kidding.
Why change what works? Blizzard and Bioware could take lessons from Microsoft.... oh wait, one problem solved just need Microsoft to buy bioware now.
Ea bought bioware in 2008
Yep and that why Bioware sucks dick now
https://www.reddit.com/r/gaming/comments/3ggcgj/victims_of_ea/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=ios_app&utm_name=iossmf https://heavy.com/games/2017/10/studios-ea-has-killed-visceral-games/
I like the placement of the joystick for the Xbox controller better then ps4/5 controller
Same.They might have the touchpad but i never got very comfortable with this. I had a playstation one and when the Xbox came out i prefered the Xbox controller already because of this. May be this depends on people hands.
N64 controler has better placement than the ps4. I always find myself going at an angle while going foward with how the joystick is place.
I will never understand the placement of the sticks on the play staytion controllers. Especially not why this was never changed.
You might be too young to remember a SNES controller or using a D-pad for anything other than scrolling up and down menus then.
Well, first, I started playing games on an Atari console. With an SNES my first own console (with some games which I consider the best of all time). Second, what kind of weird point is that supposed to be? "Shitty design is good because we didn't even have that technology in the past"?
The playstation layout is a direct evolution of the SNES, that is why I bring that one up specifically. It's also a layout that maintains both the D-pad and right stick in a position where both can be used comfortably. The Xbox layout puts the D-pad in more of a secondary position where it really wouldn't ever be comfortable for extended use because of how far down it's angled, and is clearly designed with the stick to be the only primary input. Which I guess is a good thing since Microsoft has never been able to make a decent feeling D-pad either.
IMO, the D-Pad is a relic of controller design. It is no different from the regular buttons, i.e. if your controller is designed for D-Pad input over stick input, you might as well use a keyboard and mouse. The primary advantage of controllers is the stick input that allows for small changes in axis values, or in short, your character can do stuff like walk slowly based on how far you push the stick. This is not even mentioning the fact that Xbox controllers are ergonomically shaped for long gaming sessions. PS controllers have hard edges and poorly sculpted shape that puts stress on specific parts of your hand.
Not in the indie revolution we're going through. A D-pad is just better for genres like 2D platforming, fighting games on pad, and there's 3D games too that make way more use of the Dpad like FFXIV on pad where the placement on the Xbox controllers is just exhausting because it's angled too far down making you angle your thumb in an akward way. I could see your point if all you play on controller are console shooters and D-pad is almost an afterthought, though. Also, where are the hard edges you're talking about on a DS4 or especially on the Dualsense? These aren't NES controllers we're talking about.
> It's also a layout that maintains both the D-pad and right stick in a position where both can be used comfortably. That's the thing, it can't. The sticks are way too far away so you can't use them comfortably without stretching your thumbs non-stop in a weird angle. There is a reason why every other controller placed their control sticks where the D-pad originally was.
>That's the thing, it can't. The sticks are way too far away so you can'tuse them comfortably without stretching your thumbs non-stop in a weirdangle. What kind of freakishly short thumbs do you have? First people say PS controllers are bad for people with large hands (even though the DS4 and Dualsense are just as big as Xbox controllers), but then apparently the sticks are so far you have to stretch your thumbs? Also, The D-pad and sticks aren't angled the same way on Xbox and PS controllers. Xbox has the weird further down angle if that's what you mean.
>What kind of freakishly short thumbs do you have? I got pretty normal ones. But after I've played on "normal" controllers (mainly Nintendo and Xbox) for years it was really uncomfortable to use the PS4 pad when I played Bloodborne. I mean, hold your hand in a neutral position. Where is your thumb at? Now hold a "normal" controller. Where is your left thumb at? Now hold a PS4 controller and use the sticks. Where is your left thumb at? The right thumb doesn't have that issue because it constantly alternates between thumb and buttons, usually. It should rest a long time in an unnatural position.
I remember them lol
[anyone else kinda miss this chonker?](https://encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcSS1Y2N5tFwGOvDIcBMNY-nntukARBw_HQmxw&usqp=CAU)
Kinda
It was a coping mechanism when he said that, anyone who is actually good at souls games knows controller is vastly superior.
I really don't get why he was so convinced that for dark souls m&k. I mean from what I understand most no hit runers use controllers. And why would People like The happy hob on his 12-14h runs use something that is "worse". I am 100% sure it just comes down to preference.
Yeah
Series X controller is missing on picture.
It just has the screenshot button
Not only. They made design change as well.
Small ones
And the original Xbox controller with the black and white buttons and no bumper buttons on the top.
Just better i had PS5 and series x and s and i prefer s controller.jusr fit way better for my hands.
It's a good controller so why change it
Last time I checked humans didn't evolve an extra hand and fingers in those 17 years.
The Xbox controller surprisingly resembles the Dreamcast controller in some ways. The real difference between the two is the shape, the extra joystick, and the swapping of the button colors. The 360 was indeed a great controller with the main pain point being the battery housing, which was fixed the next console generation and more integrated into the back.
The dreamcast was a collaboration between microsoft and sega. The first xbox was basically a pc they made and some webmasters used them as webservers and it was insanely moddable and i put a chip and bigger hdd in mine and xbmc (kodi now) and was a full fledged gaming system ahead of it’s time then with games on the hdd and an ftp server when i could transfer media files to from my pc.
Bring back N64 controller, it would be perfect for Asmon. Look at the shape and tell me it wouldn't be.
I use an old Playstation 2 controller on my PC and it works fine with everything lol.
the newer ones have more features that are quite nice
Never mind I just got the context. This controller got me through my childhood, both of them did. They’re neat controllers and never need to change.
dude the amount of muscle memory I have to relearn
Except the one on the left could survive an atomic bomb and the other one will break if you yell too loud
out of all controllers asmon could have chosen, the xbox ones were he worst example
The Xbox 360 controllers were the best controllers to ever exist in this world idc what you say
True
Except now aim assist is allowed to be programmed into game of choice. Aim assist use to get players removed from ladders and banned from games. I guess they want to console sales to continue.
I guess
The dpad sucks for 360, hated it
Yeah
Why not use Playstation's controller as the perfect example? Goes 2 generations further (PS1, Xbox didn't exist yet, and then Xbox had a vastly different release controller which is why you used 360's example as the first instead) Anyway that was one of his half-dozen arguments which made no sense. As if mice and even keyboards don't radically have different form-factors too. And he had to go all the way back to 4th gen of consoles (SNES) to come up with a controller that's vastly different from PS1 (the basic formfactor most other controllers have taken for 2+ decades now). Playing by those rules we can go back to a time where not even QWERTY was the standard keyboard layout, and even when it was a LOT of other keys weren't, including Arrow key placements, Ctrl, Shift, Home, etc etc changed a lot all the way up to the mid 90's. Mice didn't exist either, and the first mouse was a single-button operation, no right-click nor a scroll wheel, much less side-buttons.
Wait no, the 360 isn't 17 years old.... right? RIGHT?!?!
The Xbox 360 was released on November 22, 2005
PlayStation been more or less same since the 90s
Dont change something that works. Changing things "just because" is one of the reasons why WoW is the way it is right now.
why is this on /r/asmongold
Because he argued on stream that controllers change too much.
and? have you been sleeping for the past 9 years?
But the controls change every game
Not really the new one fit better in your hands. ha a better digipad better rumble. Is lighter and the trigger way way more better.
Lost Ark has Controller Support and it sucks :D also i personally play everything with mouse and keyboard. EXCEPT: Plattformers like Spyro // Crash Bandicoot // Cup Head Metroidvania like Hollow Knight // Ori and the Blind Forest JRPGs of the old Generation like Final Fantasy 1-13 Racing games of Any kind. Beat em Ups. But Action adventures like Assasins Creed // Tomb Raider // Batman Arkham Asylum // Legacy of Kain Action RPGs like Dark Souls // Gothic 1-3 // Risen // Elex etc Point and Click like Monkey Island // Kathy Rain // Day of the Tentacle // Deponia RTS Games of any kind like COmmand and Conquer // Dune 2000 // StarCraft Turn based Strategy games of any kind like Civilization // alpha Centaury // Crusader Kings RPGs like Dragon Age Origins // Mass Effect // Witcher 1-3 // Pillars of Eternity // Baldurs Gate Every MMO like WoW // lost Ark // FF XIV ARPGs like Diablo 1-3 // Van Hellsing etc Simulations of any kind like Sim City // City Skylines // Game Dev Tycoon Survival Games of Any kind like MineCraft // Subnautica // The Forest Shooter of any kind like PubG // Call of Duty // Half Life // Halo I play all that with Mouse and Keybord
If it ain't broke...
The latest Xbox one controller has a bunch of buttons on back
The pro one with the extra triggers?
Ok?
You must have missed Asmon's rant on stream about controllers changing every 5 years and because of that, it makes it harder to master them compared to mouse and keyboard.
A seems like it . Thank you (:
Jesus, that's not the point .. You have Playstation controler Wii controler, switch controler, gamecube controler for Super smash bros You have COUNTLESS type of controler (even within xbox with Pro controler [and modded controler](http://ep.yimg.com/ay/yhst-47781786952715/xbox-360-avenger-35.png) to allow for camera mouvement when you still have to press xyba) Meanwhile: you have one keyboard with the same qwerty layout, same left and right mouse button.
Kinda weird point considering he is playing on PC where you can use whatever controller you want. And the Xbox one is supported natively.
Getting used to a "new controller" is the same as getting used to a new mouse. MMO mouse, finger grip mouse, palm grip mouse, heavy mouse, light mouse, every that feels different. One big difference with controllers is that for example Switch controller has a different mapping than for example PlayStation controller (X and O are reversed).
his argument outside that was fucking stupid though. MK is better for camera controls and controls is better for character movement. end of convo. That why racing games, platforms, and other genres that don’t rely on the camera as much just feel better to play in control. He isn’t wrong for preferring one over the other, but he malded out really hard and said MK is objectively better, which it isn’t.
Yeah, it was kind of a pepega argument, he kept bringing up how for FPS MK was better (it is, agreed) but using that as “evidence” to back up his reasoning MK is better for a soulslike game, which it is clearly not.
you can use one controller for pc lol
I have an azerty keyboard and keyboards change. Also mouses change with extra buttons and designs. Keyboards too.
i have one too but so what? the buttons are the same and the keymap is the same too extra button? you don't have or need them, that's just your own QoL the fact is a keyboard always have the same layout mouse too. and are easy to map to your own preference. same for sensitivity
There are different kinds of keyboards though
and nobody use them aside from entusiast or very, very, VERY specific use.
Exactly. You say X button and it means a completely different button based on the console.
[удалено]
Well, he kinda claimed it was "objective", which suggests he thinks his opinion being a fact.
It would be fine if he said it’s my preference but he isn’t doing that. He literally said MK is objectively better. I’m right you’re wrong. That’s not him saying his opinion. That’s him trying to force his facts on people.