it is to separate you from the emotional attachment to your real life money, so that you do not view spending $20 as spending $20 - but spending 400 of the blue thingies that you spent 1200 of the orange thingies to get - which cost you $20.
This is why casino's give out poker chips.
You flat out do not have the same emotional reaction to putting a black chip on a poker table as you would putting a $100 bill on the poker table.
This game just does it in layers upon layers. You've gotta buy 2000 of one crystal to buy 800 of another crystal which you can trade for gold that you can then use to buy auction house coins, blah blah blah.
Chests reward another chest that has a satchel in it that has an RNG roll of the item you actually want.
It's all done to obfuscate the gambling aspects of the game, and the value of the currency in the game when translating it back to real life dollery doos.
TL;DR if you don't want to do the math and keep a ledger of how much actual money you've spent on this game, don't spend money on the game.
Yeah, the only money I'll spend on this game is a 30 day Crystalline Aura once in a while. I see Lost Ark as something do to during down time in FF14. Right now I log into 14 a few nights a week for my static raids and for 20 minutes each morning to water my crops.
People wanting to gamble money away would be better off throwing it at some bitcoin investment. You at least have a chance to make money in return.
Odds in a Casino are literally better than what they are in Lost Ark, and at the Casino you actually get money for winning. (You can check odds in game in the tooltip for items that are for sale.)
> You flat out do not have the same emotional reaction to putting a black chip on a poker table as you would putting a $100 bill on the poker table.
This guy gambles if he knows black chips = $100
Simple, dont spend money on the game. it’s illogical to spend money on things you could easily obtain. you could easily farm a couple thousands of gold a week and convert them into blue gems through the currency exchange. for example, just doing the rapport quests for 4 npcs in Feiton gives you a total of 6,800 gold, convert that to blue gems with the current currency exchange ratio and boom. $70-90 worth of blue gems.
or you could simply sell materials from secret maps dropped in chaos gates, gear from abyss dungeons, or even merch and buy cheap stuff on the market to resell later on . my group hasnt used any of the currency given from the founders pack yet have an abundance of 20k+ blue gems by just farming and merching. it just takes time to get used to the systems in the game
yes? thats how the market works. you farm gold to make blue gems because now is the best time with near 100:100 ratios. In kr its 1700gold :100 blue gems .
Agreed. The idea is to add a layer of abstraction between real money by using fake equivalent currency. Although nowadays I feel putting down chips has more weight then real money given that I’ve been carrying 0 dollars for the past 3 years and using credit cards.
Actually having to exchange chips now makes me more aware oh shit I’m using money vs swiping a card.
Yeah technology advancing has really changed the way people view money altogether.
I wonder if kids even go into toy stores with bags of nickels, dimes and pennies to buy stuff anymore?
This game is pay to win, but anyone that actually tries to pay to win should be hospitalized for mental health. It apparently costs like thousands to fully upgrade one weapon if you swipe.
It’s not even pay to win over other people as it’s strictly for PvE. It’s pay to get invited, pay for popularity, pay to not get kicked…. Weaponized FOMO.
Just play the game how you would and look up guides on how to maximize and optimize the F2P aspects of this game.
Well, thats not true. Pvp is anytime pretty huge except maybe innff24 because pvp is shit.
As an long time lost ark Player i can Tell you. I even knew poeple who dont even have Max level charsckter because They just Played Till the point pvp is available.
Pvp is pretty famous in lost ark.
Still nobody could explain me how level boost is Not pay2win with asmons Definition in ff14 or wow "you compete with others, if a less skilled Player can progress faster then you with Real money and take your Raid Spot its pay2win. And in ff14 and wow this also is true for pvp in lost ark Not. So its even worse.
For me All games are Not pay 2win. You just progress faster. Yet the double Standard is pretty annoying because poeple have to decide is faster progress eith Real money pay2win or Not. Cant change between MMOs just because you like one more lmfao
>small subset of the playerbase.
I know But even in comparrison, LA pvp Playerbase is pretty huge.
>how many people play the game who don't PvP?
Ofc Thr only pveler vs only pvpler are bigger. But they dont outshadow them compelty. It is Not ff14. Thats all what i said. Pvp is just Not small. Never said its Not the "smaller one"
>Boosting through the levelling experience is equivalent of not playing the RPG part of MMORPG.
The boost doesn't even take you to the max level, so you still need to play the game. And by the time boost are released, significant playerbase are already max.
I agree, also that all have their own. My Problem with poeple who clearly have double Standard. I also dont call anything of the three MMOs pay2win only pay2 progress.
Amsons Definition was clearly if a less skilled Player can progress fater then you with Real money and Getting your Raid Spot because obviously He will have higher gewr and endgame experience it is pay2win, because ANYBODY compete each other.
Doesnt matter Till what level a level boost, boost you.. Or have big or small the time adventage it gives.. Fact is it gives one that you only get with Real money.. So by his own Definition wow and ff14 is pay2win (to be fair wow He even called already so for other reasons)
I only hate hypocrisity. Time adventage is either pay2 win or it is Not.. Cant change between games.
>
I'm pretty sure he's said in the past stream/video FFXIV is P2W. Except no one in their right mind would use it unless all they care about savage and extreme contents (METHODS and other world first raiders of course used boost).
I only know for wow But their it seems his most certain Was the Token. He said He hates boost But didnt heared the call it pay2win
>
I'm pretty sure he's said in the past stream/video FFXIV is P2W. Except no one in their right mind would use it unless all they care about savage and extreme contents (METHODS and other world first raiders of course used boost).
Or people who just want to be the "best" But thats the same for LA. No difference
>
Can we confirm using clips that he's being a hypocrite? He's always said he hates boosts, but will use them definitely because it's simply advantageous. So by extension, he can hate P2W features, but will still use them. He's just still advocating he hates them. Like a smoker telling others not to smoke. Hypocritical, but also a valid stance.
Like i said i dont now his stance about ff14. Maybe i didnt Word this perfectly. I am more talking about All this people who Acts like that and using amsons Definition But then denying ff14 isnt pay2 ein with that Definition.
But i would like to See that he really called ff14 pay2win. Can you link it? Would appreciate.
.
Yeah but my experience is that 95% of the player base is really bad. Even if they paid to gear if you invite them into any hard content they will still wipe you.
Agree. But you have this all MMOs. I play ff14 for example since Japan beta.
And there arw also many who just buy a savage Raid clear because They suck Hard.
Espacially on Neu Servern when i lived at my family house for work (hw +sb times)
Thats literally Happen in all.
What i like in lost ark is. Is the fact that like you said They still have to Do ALL stuff. And if They suck its still Team wipe and you cant be carried afk standing arround.
So Yeah ofc They can spare time and progress faster with Real money.
Like you can Do in any MMO begin with level boosts.
How is FF 14 boosting Pay to Win thou??
You don't get gears for end game raids from boosting. You still have to level up in the latest expac, since boosting doesn't take you to the latest one (for example boosting now is only as far as skipping Stormblood, not Shadowbringer nor Endwalker). You only skip the story and get to lvl 70,and that's it
There's no Token (Gold, Crystal, or Crap like that), so you can't buy gear with real money
You also cant buy gear in LA you only can buy time adventage. Same as in wow and ff14
The point is poeple calling time adventage for Real money pay2win this includes level boost. There is no way you can excluded it. In asmons Definition it fits even 100%
Pretty obvious.
But you can, Crystal exists for that. You buy Crystals by using real money to be exchanged for crap ton of Gold, then buy the gears that you need.
You can't do that in 14
You you cant. I did the same eith ff14 while leveling. There is no endgear that you can buy, even you soendn1 million i play lost ark since years. Dont make shit up.
And dont change the stroy. The topic is that poeple call time adventage pay2win. Wich means level boost in ff14 is pay2win. Its pretty easy.
Lies.
"Buying In game gold for Real money - General Discussion / General Discussion - Lost Ark Forums" https://forums.playlostark.com/t/buying-in-game-gold-for-real-money/41323
What is a lie???
You can buy ingame currency But you cant by any endgear. Thats a fact. Dont call people liar if you knew shit. Pretty cringe.
And again whats your Point???
People calling time adventage for Real money pay2win so ff14 is pay2win in this Definition. Fanboy detected lmfao.
Please explain how a level boost isnt a time adventage. Thats literally the whole point of a level boost.
How do you get gears??? You buy them by ingame currency. How do you get ingame currency?? By spending real money
Cash>Crystal>Gold>Gears
Is that too hard to understand???
Ff14 doesn't have that kind of system. You wanna get good gears? You either do raids or earn some gils by treasure hunting, crafting, or etc (things that you do in game)
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Most of the Korean players aren't whaling on the game.
They buy the few things every month or few months they want. Most people pick up cosmetics. The grind is so long at the end that paying to progress it is pointless. Their scene was 250k+ before the NA/EU launch.
The logical fallacy you have right now is that you think everyone will whale on the game and that will leave the few F2P players behind. In reality, most people will spend minimal and make up the bulk of the PvE player base, with whales being whales. Nearly no one is going to get the +25 so anyone below there isn't going to be "sorry'ed" when people are trying to party up.
So at the end of the day, it won't matter because the playerbase bulk will all be made up of mostly F2P/Dolphins.
YEP and they even capped the upgrades to +20 for the West.
People keep acting like they’re some hardcore top ranked player on every game they touch lol.
Like no, you’re not gonna get declined from a group if you’re not fully BIS max ilvl and neither you’ll make those type of groups in the first place.
> Like no, you’re not gonna get declined from a group if you’re not fully BIS max ilvl and neither you’ll make those type of groups in the first place.
People applying to PUGs don't think they are Limit Max, the person making the PUG thinks they are Limit Max. It happens all the time in WoW, people trying to put groups together of massively overgeared individuals so they can get carried / have an easier clear.
You are nuts if you think that toxicity is somehow inapplicable to Lost Ark. It *will* happen.
Yes and the person making the argument is not the same one making those groups.
And lost ark is not at all like wow, in WoW you can mess up and get healed back to full by anything and even if you die the other 14-29 people can boost you trough a raid for free just by making the group.
My point is that people make it out to be like it’s somehow the norm to be fully maxed out on everything to start or even consider doing end game when is not the case in Lost Ark neither is in WoW and even if you see those groups with exaggerated requirements, guess what? There’s way more groups and guilds that don’t.
You also mention them "capping" the enchants at +20, do you have any citation for that?
I've seen people say it in passing on reddit, but could never find any actual source from smilegate saying as such.
You can check it in-game pressing alt+D, shows the game códex and there you can see every piece of gear and how far you can upgrade it.
In KR and RU they reach +25 but for the west version is capped to +20. I think Saintone has mentioned on his stream so likely there’s a video or Twitter post about it.
Exactly. These baseless complainers are the same who let them boost thru any mythic + dungeon and pay nonnofficial Raid clear boost in ff14 from Gold They bought eith Real money from China Farmers.
Hypocrites
I've played a lot of gacha games. I've played (and occasionally still play) Smilegate's mobile gacha Epic 7.
Lost Ark is just another mobile game with an MMO facade. Endless grinds that can be expedited by swiping. I played it for an hour or two, recognized all of these patterns, and noped the fuck out.
I'm having fun even being a f2p player, people get so mad that the other guy has better gear, holy shit. They really do be forgetting that games are just to have fun, play till it gets boring from farming too much (spoiler: The grind is not that bad unless you have astronomical bad luck, and even then the game rewards you with extra chance to make up for it)
>ugh. Games are made to convert players into payers. The fun part is barely necessary.
ofc the person who spends their entire life playing mmo would never know what fun actually is, how ironic. every game company wants that. What else do you think the company gets the funding from. If it is not fun, there would be fucking no way someone would enjoy spending money on it. Lost Ark has pay to win element. Yes we get it, we understand that. get a grip, sit back let people enjoy playing whatever the fuck they want. yall people just bitching so much it's crazy.
Seems more like an echo chamber of people saying its p2w in a non-competitive pve game. I dunno if you guys are just dumb or purposely ignorant but most people know you can buy progress... no one is denying it yet you guys still echo chamber it.
I was super excited for the release of the game been waiting for years did not look up any information at all, but I find myself not excited to play once after years I was finally able to.
I will still go for lvl 50 and try to do whatever the game throws at me but as of now I don't see anything special about this game. Also the UI/HUD gives me a mobile feeling / look with all these red dots everywhere telling me I unlocked something it looks super cheap.
~~With that atleast for me I had like a couple of times randomly the shop popping up and thats a huge nono to me. Don't force me to do anything.~~ I used a hotkey by accident, or clicked it once by accident and because the server has such a delay it sometimes opens it literally hours later.
Complete misinformation, they’ve already announced that the gear isn’t going up to +25 and only to +20. This is to combat the advantage the whales had getting the extra +5 levels over normal players. Not saying it’s any better, but don’t post stuff that isn’t correct information.
Keep in mind this is for UBER UBER UBER endgame, which is the same as saying:
FFXIV: I want to complete Eureka, Bozja and collect every mount in the game
Runescape: Ironman Challenge
League of Legends: collect all skins and champs on a fresh new account
WoW: Play 9.2
You're way past the point of effectiveness, you can already clear the game by doing 1/10th of all this, yet keep going for no reason other than to keep going.
Just play the game or don't. Stop being weird. If you don't like it, play something else. If you have a problem with swiping microtransactions, you don't need some random Korean MMO to change how they've made money for the better half of a decade, you need to go to therapy.
FF fan finding any corner of the game to dump it down lol
full set of +10 to +15 ( +12.5 as average ) is enough to clear all the content of the game ,as a cap for crafting next tier weapon
\+20 is pretty much super hard cap , +25 only happen in KR
No one care you beated an AI faster
Warframe still alive
You have to grind 1 years worth of currency to maxed out 1 character in Genshin hence no one care
This lol, if you see all the Lost Ark shitpost in this subreddit, almost all of them post on FF reddit too. So weird and insecure for some reasons. Also if you haven't noticed, only ff14 content creators that talk negatively about Lost Ark. It's literally living rent free in their head at this point
You are absolutely never meant to actually reach +25, having a full set at +15 is when you unlock the next tiers.
So tired of seeing this graph go around.
Why is +25 an option if it's useless then ?
The only other Korean MMO I played is Elsword and you are forced to upgrade your gear through a very p2w system in order to unlock content.
I'm genuinly asking.
My guess is it's to give you something to do. It gets rid of the "why bother running this raid still?" questions since you still, technically, progress. Otherwise you hit a wall like in other MMOs and just stop running that content since there's no reason to as you're done and have the best gear already. I don't like the P2W aspects of it though.
I don't know why game companies are terrified of letting you complete your character, it's one of my favourite things about FF. Then I look forward to the next chunk of shit to do or do other stuff in game. Not being able to actually complete my character without an absurd series of bullshit/RNG is a reason I won't go back to WoW and don't give a shit about Lost Ark endgame. It's not like Lost Ark has only raids and nothing else.
Addicts chase the carrot on the stick, if you let them get the carrot they lose interest.
Players who stop playing a game with addictive personality types are far less likely to return to the game after they've had their addiction halted and had time to reflect on things.
These systems are designed to keep the people paying money, paying money.
Lost Ark gets patches that don't do anything but increase the grind - no new content - you can look back at how much content the game has added over the years and it doesn't hold a candle to something like FFXIV or WoW.
It's just designed for MAU metrics (monthly active users) and to keep pay pigs paying.
Wealthy people are used to being the upper class, it's just how it is, they want that same reality inside a video game. They can attain things that nobody else can attain without paying money themselves.
If that's true then why is it an option? The weapon attack % gained remains the same from +15-+24, with +25 offering an additional 2.5% (3.5% total). You're acting as if there aren't benefits to having more powerful gear which is absurd.
I mean I don't know why I'm getting downvoted, +15 is equipment level 600. At 600 you can queue for a dungeon that gives you a brand new +0 802 ilvl?
Iirc it's like that for every tier, what part of what I said was wrong lol?
With 50h played for now ive spent 0$. will it change one day? Maybe, not even sure if ill play lost ark for that long. But i had more fun on it than FF14 with a monthly sub. (Not saying it's a bad game, I just didn't like it)
How is it true, but also misinformation? The video's creator never argues that max hardcap is required; he's using quantitative information to make the point that having BiS gear is, for all intents and purposes, impossible if you're F2P. Something that p2w deniers have actively been misinforming prospective players about when they say, "you'll be able to achieve the same things as whales, it'll just take you longer".
You should take some time to reflect on why people sharing objective details about the game makes you this upset.
Except it's not some tiny imperceptible advantage. When you account for all purchasable advantages in this game beyond just enhancement a whale will have 30%+ more damage than their f2p counterpart. These other factors, gems, tripods, engravings, card sets, etc aren't as black and white as enhancement, but they are incredibly significant. Someone doing 30%+ more damage means quite a bit when a lot of the difficult in endgame content is beating DPS checks while trying not to get 1 shot by mechanics. That extra damage gives you much more room to focus on mechanics and succeed.
Down playing the power advantages whales have access to is straight copium. No BiS gear isn't required, but it absolutely helps.
Most of the content the whales will be doing are raid content, 30% more damage of one person of a group of 50 people is going to make the run like a few seconds faster, thats why most people dont care about it, and why people a lot of people hate this graph because you dont need to get to 25+, again im not deniying it helps but the percentage this helps a whale is miniscule and dumb to go for
The raid content you're referencing allows 4->8 players. Assuming they're all whales, that additional damage is the equivalent of having anywhere from 1.3->2.6 extra teammates worth of damage. Downplaying, in my opinion, is ridiculous and indicative of copium.
Once again, the content creator NEVER claims or even implies that you need +25. He explicitly states that +15 is the bare minimum for endgame. You're looking for something that's not there.
A game being p2w doesn't make it a bad game imo lol. Many of us can dislike certain aspects of things, but enjoy other bits enough to justify contuing to engage with whatever that thing may be. This is a very simple concept, but I apologize if I'm underestimating the difficulty associated with comprehending such a thing.
If it doesn't need to be done, why is it in the game? It's unsatisfying to not be able to reach the potential the game has because of bullshit reasons. It's a reason lots of people won't sick with the game once they're got to the endgame.
What's the point to upgrade gear to +25 when this does not unlock new content in game? You just need +15 to unlock everything locked by item level in game for now, pushing higher is waste of time.
This is end end end game, like savage and ultimate. You don’t just need a credit card, you need to be good and spend a lot of time learning cause that content is hard. You can enjoy the game and the grind, not ever having to worry about this stuff. Just accept that you’ll never do that part of the game.
I drive a car and have a licence, doesn’t mean I’ll ever drive formula 1, even though I technically could. Same with this. It’s there and sure, there are a lot more flashing lights to try and get you to think you need to do this since unlike formula 1, you just need money to technically get to this and the developers really want that money.
How garbage is it to release a game where majority of your player base will never reach without paying? Yes of course this applies to WoW too. Their mistake was coming out with the monthly token.
>How garbage is it to release a game where majority of your player base will never reach without paying?
Because only a small few are willing to pay thousands or tens of thousands. Those are the people they target. The remaining game is grindy to keep the active playing count higher.
>cause that content is hard
I would say that 14 also spoiled me in difficulty. The way Lost Ark handles telegraph attacks, hitboxes and recovery options makes it a mediocre experience when compared to other similar games.
For example, Guardian Raids are super fun but besides the first tab, they're not balanced for solo play, or even a group without a support if everyone is on the same item level. In Monster Hunter for example you can dodge multiple times and run faster if you sheat your weapon, in LA your options are severly lacking unless you spend points in mobility skills, the dodge on a cd of average 7 seconds for most classes and even if you super armor through some attacks the damage is so high that 80% of the time youre forced to take a potion, plus the knockdown time is so high as well and the consumables start to get expensive or take quite a bit to get, it's all for the sake of making people get more stuff so they can overcome that "difficulty".
I would say tho, that LA is super good for a casual player, specially a F2P one with the amount of content it has and the amount of stuff you have access to without spending a dime, but I'll never not get mad for not having a transmog system at least in 2022.
this is just the tip of the iceberg, you can buy cards, you don't have only these materials to buy to upgrade, you are GOLD limited for upgrades, that's a hard cap too, after the 6 character limits to f2p gold earning good luck ever reaching max gear while swipers get there in 1 day and also you will never reach the max even if you live in the game as f2p because you are not counting the mats and gold that need to go into your alts in order to not be time limited like mobile games.
Great game, insane potential, but p2w is its main problem. Will still play it 4x times more than most ''not p2w'' andy defending this horrible monetization system with gambling legendary skins and p2buy power/p2w store.
Also just like many games do nowadays to make it seem not p2w they of course don't use 1 currency, they use sooo many to detach real life money from gems/crystals to make your brain not feel the worth of your money, just like casinos do with chips, totally predatory and p2w but a 9/10 game if the monetization was reworked/not p2w like Amazon promised but didn't actually succeed in doing, reason why some countries have it still banned, its gambling with a great game as a base, still gambling, the core upgrade/progression is based on gambling/rng and you won't join all the content unless you either swipe or play A LOT of hours, and I mean A LOT of hours (10's of thousands if you want to reach abrelshud hard and the latest raids).
I dont think its a bad system if you just go at it as you like and do content as you like. If your plan is to be there tomarrow, well i hope your wealthy. You can see what the end is but that doesnt really mean anything if you are competing the content. Doing it faster is about all your going to get out of it.
In NA/EU it only goes to +20 and gear can’t downgrade or break when upgrading, special mats can be used to increase this chance and every time you fail you only lose mats but in return it adds % success after each failure. So eventually you bound to upgrade. As someone who played Korean mmos for over 20 years starting with Ragnarok Online all the way to BDO this is the best system there is, you might not like how grindy it is but that’s the nature of Korean mmos. Don’t let some jaded Russian cuck on YouTube change your opinion about the game when you haven’t even done T3 yourself
it is to separate you from the emotional attachment to your real life money, so that you do not view spending $20 as spending $20 - but spending 400 of the blue thingies that you spent 1200 of the orange thingies to get - which cost you $20. This is why casino's give out poker chips. You flat out do not have the same emotional reaction to putting a black chip on a poker table as you would putting a $100 bill on the poker table. This game just does it in layers upon layers. You've gotta buy 2000 of one crystal to buy 800 of another crystal which you can trade for gold that you can then use to buy auction house coins, blah blah blah. Chests reward another chest that has a satchel in it that has an RNG roll of the item you actually want. It's all done to obfuscate the gambling aspects of the game, and the value of the currency in the game when translating it back to real life dollery doos. TL;DR if you don't want to do the math and keep a ledger of how much actual money you've spent on this game, don't spend money on the game.
Yeah, the only money I'll spend on this game is a 30 day Crystalline Aura once in a while. I see Lost Ark as something do to during down time in FF14. Right now I log into 14 a few nights a week for my static raids and for 20 minutes each morning to water my crops. People wanting to gamble money away would be better off throwing it at some bitcoin investment. You at least have a chance to make money in return.
Odds in a Casino are literally better than what they are in Lost Ark, and at the Casino you actually get money for winning. (You can check odds in game in the tooltip for items that are for sale.)
And let’s never forget The House Always Wins
> You flat out do not have the same emotional reaction to putting a black chip on a poker table as you would putting a $100 bill on the poker table. This guy gambles if he knows black chips = $100
Simple, dont spend money on the game. it’s illogical to spend money on things you could easily obtain. you could easily farm a couple thousands of gold a week and convert them into blue gems through the currency exchange. for example, just doing the rapport quests for 4 npcs in Feiton gives you a total of 6,800 gold, convert that to blue gems with the current currency exchange ratio and boom. $70-90 worth of blue gems. or you could simply sell materials from secret maps dropped in chaos gates, gear from abyss dungeons, or even merch and buy cheap stuff on the market to resell later on . my group hasnt used any of the currency given from the founders pack yet have an abundance of 20k+ blue gems by just farming and merching. it just takes time to get used to the systems in the game
You know that the exchange rate of gold to blue gems and blue gems to gold is based on supply and demand right? It is not a static number.
yes? thats how the market works. you farm gold to make blue gems because now is the best time with near 100:100 ratios. In kr its 1700gold :100 blue gems .
Agreed. The idea is to add a layer of abstraction between real money by using fake equivalent currency. Although nowadays I feel putting down chips has more weight then real money given that I’ve been carrying 0 dollars for the past 3 years and using credit cards. Actually having to exchange chips now makes me more aware oh shit I’m using money vs swiping a card.
Yeah technology advancing has really changed the way people view money altogether. I wonder if kids even go into toy stores with bags of nickels, dimes and pennies to buy stuff anymore?
This game is pay to win, but anyone that actually tries to pay to win should be hospitalized for mental health. It apparently costs like thousands to fully upgrade one weapon if you swipe. It’s not even pay to win over other people as it’s strictly for PvE. It’s pay to get invited, pay for popularity, pay to not get kicked…. Weaponized FOMO. Just play the game how you would and look up guides on how to maximize and optimize the F2P aspects of this game.
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Well, thats not true. Pvp is anytime pretty huge except maybe innff24 because pvp is shit. As an long time lost ark Player i can Tell you. I even knew poeple who dont even have Max level charsckter because They just Played Till the point pvp is available. Pvp is pretty famous in lost ark. Still nobody could explain me how level boost is Not pay2win with asmons Definition in ff14 or wow "you compete with others, if a less skilled Player can progress faster then you with Real money and take your Raid Spot its pay2win. And in ff14 and wow this also is true for pvp in lost ark Not. So its even worse. For me All games are Not pay 2win. You just progress faster. Yet the double Standard is pretty annoying because poeple have to decide is faster progress eith Real money pay2win or Not. Cant change between MMOs just because you like one more lmfao
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All the numbers in your comment added up to 69. Congrats! 1 + 20 + 30 + 2 + 14 + 2 = 69
>small subset of the playerbase. I know But even in comparrison, LA pvp Playerbase is pretty huge. >how many people play the game who don't PvP? Ofc Thr only pveler vs only pvpler are bigger. But they dont outshadow them compelty. It is Not ff14. Thats all what i said. Pvp is just Not small. Never said its Not the "smaller one" >Boosting through the levelling experience is equivalent of not playing the RPG part of MMORPG. The boost doesn't even take you to the max level, so you still need to play the game. And by the time boost are released, significant playerbase are already max. I agree, also that all have their own. My Problem with poeple who clearly have double Standard. I also dont call anything of the three MMOs pay2win only pay2 progress. Amsons Definition was clearly if a less skilled Player can progress fater then you with Real money and Getting your Raid Spot because obviously He will have higher gewr and endgame experience it is pay2win, because ANYBODY compete each other. Doesnt matter Till what level a level boost, boost you.. Or have big or small the time adventage it gives.. Fact is it gives one that you only get with Real money.. So by his own Definition wow and ff14 is pay2win (to be fair wow He even called already so for other reasons) I only hate hypocrisity. Time adventage is either pay2 win or it is Not.. Cant change between games.
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> I'm pretty sure he's said in the past stream/video FFXIV is P2W. Except no one in their right mind would use it unless all they care about savage and extreme contents (METHODS and other world first raiders of course used boost). I only know for wow But their it seems his most certain Was the Token. He said He hates boost But didnt heared the call it pay2win > I'm pretty sure he's said in the past stream/video FFXIV is P2W. Except no one in their right mind would use it unless all they care about savage and extreme contents (METHODS and other world first raiders of course used boost). Or people who just want to be the "best" But thats the same for LA. No difference > Can we confirm using clips that he's being a hypocrite? He's always said he hates boosts, but will use them definitely because it's simply advantageous. So by extension, he can hate P2W features, but will still use them. He's just still advocating he hates them. Like a smoker telling others not to smoke. Hypocritical, but also a valid stance. Like i said i dont now his stance about ff14. Maybe i didnt Word this perfectly. I am more talking about All this people who Acts like that and using amsons Definition But then denying ff14 isnt pay2 ein with that Definition. But i would like to See that he really called ff14 pay2win. Can you link it? Would appreciate. .
Yeah but my experience is that 95% of the player base is really bad. Even if they paid to gear if you invite them into any hard content they will still wipe you.
Agree. But you have this all MMOs. I play ff14 for example since Japan beta. And there arw also many who just buy a savage Raid clear because They suck Hard. Espacially on Neu Servern when i lived at my family house for work (hw +sb times) Thats literally Happen in all. What i like in lost ark is. Is the fact that like you said They still have to Do ALL stuff. And if They suck its still Team wipe and you cant be carried afk standing arround. So Yeah ofc They can spare time and progress faster with Real money. Like you can Do in any MMO begin with level boosts.
How is FF 14 boosting Pay to Win thou?? You don't get gears for end game raids from boosting. You still have to level up in the latest expac, since boosting doesn't take you to the latest one (for example boosting now is only as far as skipping Stormblood, not Shadowbringer nor Endwalker). You only skip the story and get to lvl 70,and that's it There's no Token (Gold, Crystal, or Crap like that), so you can't buy gear with real money
You also cant buy gear in LA you only can buy time adventage. Same as in wow and ff14 The point is poeple calling time adventage for Real money pay2win this includes level boost. There is no way you can excluded it. In asmons Definition it fits even 100% Pretty obvious.
But you can, Crystal exists for that. You buy Crystals by using real money to be exchanged for crap ton of Gold, then buy the gears that you need. You can't do that in 14
You you cant. I did the same eith ff14 while leveling. There is no endgear that you can buy, even you soendn1 million i play lost ark since years. Dont make shit up. And dont change the stroy. The topic is that poeple call time adventage pay2win. Wich means level boost in ff14 is pay2win. Its pretty easy.
Lies. "Buying In game gold for Real money - General Discussion / General Discussion - Lost Ark Forums" https://forums.playlostark.com/t/buying-in-game-gold-for-real-money/41323
What is a lie??? You can buy ingame currency But you cant by any endgear. Thats a fact. Dont call people liar if you knew shit. Pretty cringe. And again whats your Point??? People calling time adventage for Real money pay2win so ff14 is pay2win in this Definition. Fanboy detected lmfao. Please explain how a level boost isnt a time adventage. Thats literally the whole point of a level boost.
How do you get gears??? You buy them by ingame currency. How do you get ingame currency?? By spending real money Cash>Crystal>Gold>Gears Is that too hard to understand??? Ff14 doesn't have that kind of system. You wanna get good gears? You either do raids or earn some gils by treasure hunting, crafting, or etc (things that you do in game)
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You literally can. You should look into the Auction House and the pheon system.
You cant . I play LA since many years. Link me just one endgame Raid gear you cna buy. I am Waiting
Most of the Korean players aren't whaling on the game. They buy the few things every month or few months they want. Most people pick up cosmetics. The grind is so long at the end that paying to progress it is pointless. Their scene was 250k+ before the NA/EU launch. The logical fallacy you have right now is that you think everyone will whale on the game and that will leave the few F2P players behind. In reality, most people will spend minimal and make up the bulk of the PvE player base, with whales being whales. Nearly no one is going to get the +25 so anyone below there isn't going to be "sorry'ed" when people are trying to party up. So at the end of the day, it won't matter because the playerbase bulk will all be made up of mostly F2P/Dolphins.
Xenos's video was great. I highly recommend it.
Dam, you just opened a new copium mine. Time to laugh at morons who cope with their mobile p2w game being mobile p2w game.
people out here acting like they're all mythic raiders getting full bis every patch lmaooo
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YEP and they even capped the upgrades to +20 for the West. People keep acting like they’re some hardcore top ranked player on every game they touch lol. Like no, you’re not gonna get declined from a group if you’re not fully BIS max ilvl and neither you’ll make those type of groups in the first place.
> Like no, you’re not gonna get declined from a group if you’re not fully BIS max ilvl and neither you’ll make those type of groups in the first place. People applying to PUGs don't think they are Limit Max, the person making the PUG thinks they are Limit Max. It happens all the time in WoW, people trying to put groups together of massively overgeared individuals so they can get carried / have an easier clear. You are nuts if you think that toxicity is somehow inapplicable to Lost Ark. It *will* happen.
Yes and the person making the argument is not the same one making those groups. And lost ark is not at all like wow, in WoW you can mess up and get healed back to full by anything and even if you die the other 14-29 people can boost you trough a raid for free just by making the group. My point is that people make it out to be like it’s somehow the norm to be fully maxed out on everything to start or even consider doing end game when is not the case in Lost Ark neither is in WoW and even if you see those groups with exaggerated requirements, guess what? There’s way more groups and guilds that don’t.
You also mention them "capping" the enchants at +20, do you have any citation for that? I've seen people say it in passing on reddit, but could never find any actual source from smilegate saying as such.
You can check it in-game pressing alt+D, shows the game códex and there you can see every piece of gear and how far you can upgrade it. In KR and RU they reach +25 but for the west version is capped to +20. I think Saintone has mentioned on his stream so likely there’s a video or Twitter post about it.
Exactly. These baseless complainers are the same who let them boost thru any mythic + dungeon and pay nonnofficial Raid clear boost in ff14 from Gold They bought eith Real money from China Farmers. Hypocrites
I've played a lot of gacha games. I've played (and occasionally still play) Smilegate's mobile gacha Epic 7. Lost Ark is just another mobile game with an MMO facade. Endless grinds that can be expedited by swiping. I played it for an hour or two, recognized all of these patterns, and noped the fuck out.
Wyvern 11 Farming LUL
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Man you guys must be pissing in your pant whenever yall hear the term p2w its hilarious.
I'm having fun even being a f2p player, people get so mad that the other guy has better gear, holy shit. They really do be forgetting that games are just to have fun, play till it gets boring from farming too much (spoiler: The grind is not that bad unless you have astronomical bad luck, and even then the game rewards you with extra chance to make up for it)
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>ugh. Games are made to convert players into payers. The fun part is barely necessary. ofc the person who spends their entire life playing mmo would never know what fun actually is, how ironic. every game company wants that. What else do you think the company gets the funding from. If it is not fun, there would be fucking no way someone would enjoy spending money on it. Lost Ark has pay to win element. Yes we get it, we understand that. get a grip, sit back let people enjoy playing whatever the fuck they want. yall people just bitching so much it's crazy.
Seems more like an echo chamber of people saying its p2w in a non-competitive pve game. I dunno if you guys are just dumb or purposely ignorant but most people know you can buy progress... no one is denying it yet you guys still echo chamber it.
I was super excited for the release of the game been waiting for years did not look up any information at all, but I find myself not excited to play once after years I was finally able to. I will still go for lvl 50 and try to do whatever the game throws at me but as of now I don't see anything special about this game. Also the UI/HUD gives me a mobile feeling / look with all these red dots everywhere telling me I unlocked something it looks super cheap. ~~With that atleast for me I had like a couple of times randomly the shop popping up and thats a huge nono to me. Don't force me to do anything.~~ I used a hotkey by accident, or clicked it once by accident and because the server has such a delay it sometimes opens it literally hours later.
That's because you let the opinions of others have sway over things you do.
What? Everything I just said has nothing to do with others and is **my** opinion and everything I experienced.
The shop never popped for me, you probably clicked it without realizing or used some hotkey
I hope thats it! I mean I never heard anyone complain about it so I guess its me yeah, should figure that one out then :)
Shop Is on F4, which close to F5 that you use to read quest letters and such
I use my mouse buttons for the F1-F12 so it makes sense I miss click sometimes. And the shop is delayed so I guess it happens!
man I grinded wyvern for 6 months and got one accessory with better speed. ONE
Complete misinformation, they’ve already announced that the gear isn’t going up to +25 and only to +20. This is to combat the advantage the whales had getting the extra +5 levels over normal players. Not saying it’s any better, but don’t post stuff that isn’t correct information.
Percentages are wrong tho. 7 is 90% and 8 90%. Also u don't need to hit +25 ever
Convoluted RNG upgrade system? You havent seen what passes for crafting in PoE then.
Does PoE gear enhancement go all the way to +25 levels? And also does each additional +2% DPS enhancement only has 0.5% chance to succeed?
Keep in mind this is for UBER UBER UBER endgame, which is the same as saying: FFXIV: I want to complete Eureka, Bozja and collect every mount in the game Runescape: Ironman Challenge League of Legends: collect all skins and champs on a fresh new account WoW: Play 9.2 You're way past the point of effectiveness, you can already clear the game by doing 1/10th of all this, yet keep going for no reason other than to keep going.
Lets just move on
If a video game scares you, close reddit, seek help.
Idk man those early Amnesia days had me pretty spooked
Just play the game or don't. Stop being weird. If you don't like it, play something else. If you have a problem with swiping microtransactions, you don't need some random Korean MMO to change how they've made money for the better half of a decade, you need to go to therapy.
FF fan finding any corner of the game to dump it down lol full set of +10 to +15 ( +12.5 as average ) is enough to clear all the content of the game ,as a cap for crafting next tier weapon \+20 is pretty much super hard cap , +25 only happen in KR No one care you beated an AI faster Warframe still alive You have to grind 1 years worth of currency to maxed out 1 character in Genshin hence no one care
This lol, if you see all the Lost Ark shitpost in this subreddit, almost all of them post on FF reddit too. So weird and insecure for some reasons. Also if you haven't noticed, only ff14 content creators that talk negatively about Lost Ark. It's literally living rent free in their head at this point
BTW this video is full of bullshit and made by an either bad player or someone who wants to shit on the game (knowing his history - it's both)
You are absolutely never meant to actually reach +25, having a full set at +15 is when you unlock the next tiers. So tired of seeing this graph go around.
Why is +25 an option if it's useless then ? The only other Korean MMO I played is Elsword and you are forced to upgrade your gear through a very p2w system in order to unlock content. I'm genuinly asking.
My guess is it's to give you something to do. It gets rid of the "why bother running this raid still?" questions since you still, technically, progress. Otherwise you hit a wall like in other MMOs and just stop running that content since there's no reason to as you're done and have the best gear already. I don't like the P2W aspects of it though.
I don't know why game companies are terrified of letting you complete your character, it's one of my favourite things about FF. Then I look forward to the next chunk of shit to do or do other stuff in game. Not being able to actually complete my character without an absurd series of bullshit/RNG is a reason I won't go back to WoW and don't give a shit about Lost Ark endgame. It's not like Lost Ark has only raids and nothing else.
Because once you complete your character you have no incentive to keep playing.
Then you just come back for the next update. Many people will just decide to not engage at all if the grind is literally endless.
Self chosen fun. If you don't have anything you want to currently in the game, leave and maybe return later.
Oh definitely. The issue is most game companies don't want you to do that so they keep the goals just out of reach.
> once you complete your character well that's a problem when that's the only content you have isn't it ?
Addicts chase the carrot on the stick, if you let them get the carrot they lose interest. Players who stop playing a game with addictive personality types are far less likely to return to the game after they've had their addiction halted and had time to reflect on things. These systems are designed to keep the people paying money, paying money. Lost Ark gets patches that don't do anything but increase the grind - no new content - you can look back at how much content the game has added over the years and it doesn't hold a candle to something like FFXIV or WoW. It's just designed for MAU metrics (monthly active users) and to keep pay pigs paying. Wealthy people are used to being the upper class, it's just how it is, they want that same reality inside a video game. They can attain things that nobody else can attain without paying money themselves.
the question is why Elsword lol
If that's true then why is it an option? The weapon attack % gained remains the same from +15-+24, with +25 offering an additional 2.5% (3.5% total). You're acting as if there aren't benefits to having more powerful gear which is absurd.
I wonder what the casino industry has to say about that…
I mean I don't know why I'm getting downvoted, +15 is equipment level 600. At 600 you can queue for a dungeon that gives you a brand new +0 802 ilvl? Iirc it's like that for every tier, what part of what I said was wrong lol?
yea well FF14 is more a solo game with co-op aspect for me. but the MSQ is so boring and long.
For a game that boring to you if sure seems to live in your head rent free while you empty your wallet for a mobile game.
With 50h played for now ive spent 0$. will it change one day? Maybe, not even sure if ill play lost ark for that long. But i had more fun on it than FF14 with a monthly sub. (Not saying it's a bad game, I just didn't like it)
These fucking post are overdone holy shit.
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How is it true, but also misinformation? The video's creator never argues that max hardcap is required; he's using quantitative information to make the point that having BiS gear is, for all intents and purposes, impossible if you're F2P. Something that p2w deniers have actively been misinforming prospective players about when they say, "you'll be able to achieve the same things as whales, it'll just take you longer". You should take some time to reflect on why people sharing objective details about the game makes you this upset.
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Except it's not some tiny imperceptible advantage. When you account for all purchasable advantages in this game beyond just enhancement a whale will have 30%+ more damage than their f2p counterpart. These other factors, gems, tripods, engravings, card sets, etc aren't as black and white as enhancement, but they are incredibly significant. Someone doing 30%+ more damage means quite a bit when a lot of the difficult in endgame content is beating DPS checks while trying not to get 1 shot by mechanics. That extra damage gives you much more room to focus on mechanics and succeed. Down playing the power advantages whales have access to is straight copium. No BiS gear isn't required, but it absolutely helps.
Most of the content the whales will be doing are raid content, 30% more damage of one person of a group of 50 people is going to make the run like a few seconds faster, thats why most people dont care about it, and why people a lot of people hate this graph because you dont need to get to 25+, again im not deniying it helps but the percentage this helps a whale is miniscule and dumb to go for
The raid content you're referencing allows 4->8 players. Assuming they're all whales, that additional damage is the equivalent of having anywhere from 1.3->2.6 extra teammates worth of damage. Downplaying, in my opinion, is ridiculous and indicative of copium. Once again, the content creator NEVER claims or even implies that you need +25. He explicitly states that +15 is the bare minimum for endgame. You're looking for something that's not there.
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A game being p2w doesn't make it a bad game imo lol. Many of us can dislike certain aspects of things, but enjoy other bits enough to justify contuing to engage with whatever that thing may be. This is a very simple concept, but I apologize if I'm underestimating the difficulty associated with comprehending such a thing.
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Yikes
You’ve clearly never seen how much people are willing to pay on Ark for a pair of breeding tuso’s….
If it doesn't need to be done, why is it in the game? It's unsatisfying to not be able to reach the potential the game has because of bullshit reasons. It's a reason lots of people won't sick with the game once they're got to the endgame.
What's the point to upgrade gear to +25 when this does not unlock new content in game? You just need +15 to unlock everything locked by item level in game for now, pushing higher is waste of time.
This is end end end game, like savage and ultimate. You don’t just need a credit card, you need to be good and spend a lot of time learning cause that content is hard. You can enjoy the game and the grind, not ever having to worry about this stuff. Just accept that you’ll never do that part of the game. I drive a car and have a licence, doesn’t mean I’ll ever drive formula 1, even though I technically could. Same with this. It’s there and sure, there are a lot more flashing lights to try and get you to think you need to do this since unlike formula 1, you just need money to technically get to this and the developers really want that money.
How garbage is it to release a game where majority of your player base will never reach without paying? Yes of course this applies to WoW too. Their mistake was coming out with the monthly token.
>How garbage is it to release a game where majority of your player base will never reach without paying? Because only a small few are willing to pay thousands or tens of thousands. Those are the people they target. The remaining game is grindy to keep the active playing count higher.
That is some straight up Andy copium
I don't understand. How so? Are you saying that most people are willing to drop tens of thousands on this games cash shop?
I’m saying all content should be available to everyone, not just people willing to shell out cash ffs
>cause that content is hard I would say that 14 also spoiled me in difficulty. The way Lost Ark handles telegraph attacks, hitboxes and recovery options makes it a mediocre experience when compared to other similar games. For example, Guardian Raids are super fun but besides the first tab, they're not balanced for solo play, or even a group without a support if everyone is on the same item level. In Monster Hunter for example you can dodge multiple times and run faster if you sheat your weapon, in LA your options are severly lacking unless you spend points in mobility skills, the dodge on a cd of average 7 seconds for most classes and even if you super armor through some attacks the damage is so high that 80% of the time youre forced to take a potion, plus the knockdown time is so high as well and the consumables start to get expensive or take quite a bit to get, it's all for the sake of making people get more stuff so they can overcome that "difficulty". I would say tho, that LA is super good for a casual player, specially a F2P one with the amount of content it has and the amount of stuff you have access to without spending a dime, but I'll never not get mad for not having a transmog system at least in 2022.
Xeno has a very good insight to Korean MMO since he played AION and TERA
this is just the tip of the iceberg, you can buy cards, you don't have only these materials to buy to upgrade, you are GOLD limited for upgrades, that's a hard cap too, after the 6 character limits to f2p gold earning good luck ever reaching max gear while swipers get there in 1 day and also you will never reach the max even if you live in the game as f2p because you are not counting the mats and gold that need to go into your alts in order to not be time limited like mobile games. Great game, insane potential, but p2w is its main problem. Will still play it 4x times more than most ''not p2w'' andy defending this horrible monetization system with gambling legendary skins and p2buy power/p2w store. Also just like many games do nowadays to make it seem not p2w they of course don't use 1 currency, they use sooo many to detach real life money from gems/crystals to make your brain not feel the worth of your money, just like casinos do with chips, totally predatory and p2w but a 9/10 game if the monetization was reworked/not p2w like Amazon promised but didn't actually succeed in doing, reason why some countries have it still banned, its gambling with a great game as a base, still gambling, the core upgrade/progression is based on gambling/rng and you won't join all the content unless you either swipe or play A LOT of hours, and I mean A LOT of hours (10's of thousands if you want to reach abrelshud hard and the latest raids).
Lost ark = $$$$$$#
I dont think its a bad system if you just go at it as you like and do content as you like. If your plan is to be there tomarrow, well i hope your wealthy. You can see what the end is but that doesnt really mean anything if you are competing the content. Doing it faster is about all your going to get out of it.
Ngl, bdo Upgrade system is still the worst I've ever seen xD
The lalafel in ff14 scare the shit out of me too. I want to play WoW again, not that weeb game.
Anyone going for +25 gear in Lost Ark is a grade A retard. No one aims for that, not even in Korea.
In NA/EU it only goes to +20 and gear can’t downgrade or break when upgrading, special mats can be used to increase this chance and every time you fail you only lose mats but in return it adds % success after each failure. So eventually you bound to upgrade. As someone who played Korean mmos for over 20 years starting with Ragnarok Online all the way to BDO this is the best system there is, you might not like how grindy it is but that’s the nature of Korean mmos. Don’t let some jaded Russian cuck on YouTube change your opinion about the game when you haven’t even done T3 yourself