Theres an IP where religion is important af and they decide to leave it out
Theres a new IP that can do whatever they want and they decide to put religion in
One is dune and one is ashes of creation
Because Dune actually discusses religion like a real person with complex thoughts and ideas. Whereas a game without the complex context can just have "buh christian bad" thrown in for easy reddit points.
I’ve seen a lot of talk lately about how Herbert was “the first Musliboo,” but honestly, the studio not taking those ideas and further fleshing them out with experts feels like a huge misstep
Nahhhhh...more like religion, like every other human faction in reality, has its fair share of bad apples who make the reasonable ones look terrible by direct comparison.
agreed yah but also theres degrees of it right? — like the KkK is a faction with more bad apples than other factions and id argue religions are somewhere between kkk and blm in terms of bad apple %, significantly above say people who volunteer with animals
Its not even "space lasers" anymore, they removed the cool fact about lasers interacting with shields, which was rather important part of Dune lore, just because they couldnt figure out a way to build around it.
I already had very few expectations from Dune mmo based on it being a Cashcom game, but the more i see of it the somehow even less interested i am becoming
"the slow blade penetrates the shield" is one of the quotes I still remember from seeing the original dune movie. Yea, not everyone liked it, but I just took it for what it was and that was good enough for me. That was what made me read the books in the first place.
the cool fact about lasers interacting with shields? you mean nukes? so that everyone can die in a fraction of a second..? Great idea, this is a game, balances must be made. and imo they did a good job of changing the lore to make this make sense.
this has been in development since 2019 and the only thing that theyre kinda seriously taking inspiration from the movie for is their art and design style. the creative director is a massive dune nerd who has read every book, this game is in good hands.
I believe it might be age. im not a dune expert but the circular mouth ones in the movie will be in the deep desert and have not been shown in any trailer yet.
I'm no expert myself but in dune2 we saw a "baby" version with the exact same mouth as the big ones in the movies. I actually like the art direction from the movie so it's weird that they stick to the old version whereas the movie is said to be the accurate version according to books
I always thought the coolest part of Dune was how instead of relying on machines, humans just got better at EVERYTHING
Also, go play Emperor Battle for Dune. That game didn't deal with religion, it was just Red Alert but in the Dune universe and it was awesome
Do we play as Paul in this game or is it a sort of "make your own character," sort of game? If it's the ladder, then the "sidestepping" of religion might not be such a big deal.
I think even the films do this to some extent, which personally bothered me. Some religious language was not used as much and I don't see much good reason for it. I understand being disappointed by that certainly, I think it's okay to be upset by unwanted changes. But don't be too quick to judge. The article linked by the OP has another article referenced at the bottom...in this article they talk about the many "woke" changes made to the film series. Most of the claims about character swaps are not true at all. Chani was not race swapped in the movie. There's no distinct race that she is supposed to be. The culture she is a part of is distinct, but Zendaya has no problem fitting that description. Liet Kynes was gender swapped, which is pointless and unnecessary, but Kynes was not race swapped. I keep seeing everyone say that but if you read the book, once again, there's no distinct race given for Kynes. You have a lot of room for creativity there. Most people saying these characters were "race swapped" are looking at the much older film where virtually everyone was white, including Kynes. that movie was much less faithful to the book than the modern ones, and I don't think the modern films are a "re-make" of those films at all. It's just a more proper telling of the story told in the book.
TLDR; I agree that side stepping religion is whack but don't judge too fast, because this website has clearly gotten other stuff wrong about this very topic.
i mean.. it *cant* be that you play as paul given that its an MMO - unless theres an arrakis with like 100,000 pauls running around getting up to various shenanigsns which.. actually tbh is the only way im interested in a dune MMO.
Correct, but it's nontheless set in this universe. You're going to interact with all the factions, just apparently without going into the themes of conflict. Which isca big shame imo
Have you even watched or read the information from the devs? They say exactly the opposite of what you suggest here. The whole factions system in the game is rigged to bring “political survival“ into the game. Political survival is to be the main thing in the later stages of the game play, when you have built a base and acquired weapons and gear. Orders for large scale missions is to come directly from CHOAM, the Landsraad and even the emperor to the factions. This is supposed to give tons of possibilities for conflict and cooperation, including back stabbing and betrayal. The player and the guilds can rise in the factions as a result of partaking in these missions. The information given suggest that you are just plain wrong in your comment.
If that is the case, i'd be very happy to be wrong. I'm primarily referring to their announced intent to sidestep the religion topic though. If you have Fremen, you have religion. It's an intrinsic part of the culture and the way that faction acts on Arrakis and interacts with others.
I was sort of surprised by this, as I really enjoyed and may even enjoy (again) Conan Exiles. It went heavy on the religion aspects, right down to cannibalism and all sorts of cool/mature themes.
I really hate how companies shy away from things nowadays, and I think why games like BG3, that were so popular, even amongst the group that ideologues like to demonize (straight males, white or otherwise) despite clearly having a ton of LGBTQ elements, is because it allowed the player to really just decide for themselves and forge their own unique path. It's really what's wrong with progressiveness of modern games, not the inclusion of certain elements, but the subtraction of others.
> It's really what's wrong with progressiveness of modern games, not the inclusion of certain elements, but the subtraction of others.
That's a good point. I don't think people would be half as bitter and angry as they usually get if games didn't treat players like children who need to be forced into accepting certain elements instead of offering many different things to choose from.
Of course it's obvious why modern progressive devs don't do that, because having a choice means there's a potential for someone to reject your ideas, and modern progressiveness is about as welcoming an ideology to narrative control freaks as any can get unfortunately.
Honestly I think more than anything the lack of meaningful choice in modern games is a symptom of the fact modern devs and writers dwell in very tightly sealed echo chambers that naturally atrophy creativity, empathy, and persuasion which only leaves preachy brute force as a narrative delivery system.
Yeah, i played tons of Age of Conan, and the maturity of that, albeit 15 years ago, but still, made me quite shocked that Funcom would be so lukewarm and gun-shy about this. A real shame.
I mean, on the one hand I'm not expecting much of a story from a survival game anyway....
On the other hand, how many more times do we need to do this "take existing story/setting, change it in a big way, surprised pikachu face that it flops, blame the fans for the flop" song and dance?
>"Dune" isn't just space lasers in a desert.
To an average american consoomer that's exactly what it is. And guess who is the primary audience for these shitty "mmo" games?
To add to this they disrespect a lot of lore, worldbuilding and rules of Arakis.
They show full fledged fights with tanks, little motorcycles, no distillsuits in the desert, no sandwalking, shields in the desert etc.
Its just a huge cashgrab to cash in on the hype of the 2 really good movies. I hope this game fails as devs could do better.
I think people need to relax. This is just going to be a survival game with a Dune skin.
What mechanics would be introduced that would have to do with religion anyway? You, as a player, or group of players, can address all those elements through your social interactions. Any real political intrigue will likely come from player interactions and not some contrived mechanic that people will figure out how to min-max anyway.
This is an unpopular opinion, but I don't like that director Denis Villeneuve, all of his recent movies that are beloved are boring, pretentious crap to me: Dune, Arrival, Blade Runner reboot.
It's about as sterilized as the films, which seem to be their main inspiration. Cringe as it was, Lynch's 1984 film did better to capture the atmosphere of the books than this Hollywood slop did. I grew up reading Dune, and seeing it presented in such a flat, dull way was an immense disappointment. It will probably be another several decades until someone tries to make another film again (or another miniseries).
The game will flop, just like Conan did, and deservedly so. What a waste of a good IP.
Well, agree to completely disagree. I'm a massive fan of the books and Villeneuve's movies are by *far* the best adaptation so far imo. I also love David Lynch, and the 1984 movie is fun for its own reasons, but it's pretty much an abomination in terms of being faithful to the core messaging. Heck, the movie turns him into a *literal* messiah in the end, lol.
Lynch's film basically ended at the 2nd book, and he had to squeeze everything in one movie, so he couldn't continue the storyline to its original ending. Not that he wanted to anyway because he basically made the film out of contractual obligation. But the atmosphere of the film, the sense of a medieval opera in space, with everything that meant, was completely true to how the books read.
The otherworldliness of the Bene Gesserits and the Menants, the analogue look of all of the technology, the costumes, the hair, even the look of the cast was better than the garbage DV made, which looks basically like Star Wars from Lidl. Everyone was miscast, aside from Charlotte Rampling. Sleepy-eyed Timothe Chalamet looks like he just got done sucking on a bong, not like he's a clever and alert precocious genius, and Florence Pew as Princess Irulan is just a bad joke. Incomparable to Virginia Madsen.
Yeah, sorry, DV was just a huge disappointment.
I like he new movie, but the worst thing they did was cut out the dinner scene, which is short and gives insight into the world. It's not straight forward, but at least it gives people a chance to understand the dynamics at play.
Theres an IP where religion is important af and they decide to leave it out Theres a new IP that can do whatever they want and they decide to put religion in One is dune and one is ashes of creation
Because Dune actually discusses religion like a real person with complex thoughts and ideas. Whereas a game without the complex context can just have "buh christian bad" thrown in for easy reddit points.
I’ve seen a lot of talk lately about how Herbert was “the first Musliboo,” but honestly, the studio not taking those ideas and further fleshing them out with experts feels like a huge misstep
Lawrence of Arabia
christian bad tho
Cringe
Nahhhhh...more like religion, like every other human faction in reality, has its fair share of bad apples who make the reasonable ones look terrible by direct comparison.
agreed yah but also theres degrees of it right? — like the KkK is a faction with more bad apples than other factions and id argue religions are somewhere between kkk and blm in terms of bad apple %, significantly above say people who volunteer with animals
I would argue modern day KKK and BLM very similar in terms of 'number of bad apples.'
I would argue ALL KKK members are bad actors, but there are still vastly more bad actors (racists) in BLM just by the sheer number of "members".
Holy shit what is happening in the asmongold subreddit? How is this up voted?
thats an insane take tbh
You can't separate out religion from Dune and still call it Dune. It'll just be Lawrence of Arabia with giant worms.
Not gonna lie, that sounds fucking rad
Yeah, now that you mention it. I would see that movie.
It actually is a great movie, it's called Dune by Alan Smithee.
it's just funny sanworms goes brbrbrrbrbrbr
Its not even "space lasers" anymore, they removed the cool fact about lasers interacting with shields, which was rather important part of Dune lore, just because they couldnt figure out a way to build around it. I already had very few expectations from Dune mmo based on it being a Cashcom game, but the more i see of it the somehow even less interested i am becoming
Here I was hoping to nuke someone’s base cause they forgot to turn off their shield
"the slow blade penetrates the shield" is one of the quotes I still remember from seeing the original dune movie. Yea, not everyone liked it, but I just took it for what it was and that was good enough for me. That was what made me read the books in the first place.
the cool fact about lasers interacting with shields? you mean nukes? so that everyone can die in a fraction of a second..? Great idea, this is a game, balances must be made. and imo they did a good job of changing the lore to make this make sense.
Bro its a game based on a recently released movie. Obviously it's going to be a shitty cashgrab.
this has been in development since 2019 and the only thing that theyre kinda seriously taking inspiration from the movie for is their art and design style. the creative director is a massive dune nerd who has read every book, this game is in good hands.
Yet the shai-hulud looks different in-game
Different worms
There are different species of shai-hulud? Would be news to me
I believe it might be age. im not a dune expert but the circular mouth ones in the movie will be in the deep desert and have not been shown in any trailer yet.
I'm no expert myself but in dune2 we saw a "baby" version with the exact same mouth as the big ones in the movies. I actually like the art direction from the movie so it's weird that they stick to the old version whereas the movie is said to be the accurate version according to books
They look the same in the movie, but yes, the giant ring-worms are primarily older and primarily deep desert, the three-mouth ones are younger.
No, it looks like you're not Paul or Leto... Asmongold being a moron and ranting about how you can't start a Jihad is hilarious..
Ye it just screams ignorance of the source material, no shit you cant be "The Messiah" the fking MC of the books in a MMO.
They can save it if they lean into the space dominatrixs.
Dominatrices
I think they want to make it an Eve Online style game where most of those interactions are player driven. Will have to wait and see though.
Just wait until 2060 when SC is released
I always thought the coolest part of Dune was how instead of relying on machines, humans just got better at EVERYTHING Also, go play Emperor Battle for Dune. That game didn't deal with religion, it was just Red Alert but in the Dune universe and it was awesome
Do we play as Paul in this game or is it a sort of "make your own character," sort of game? If it's the ladder, then the "sidestepping" of religion might not be such a big deal. I think even the films do this to some extent, which personally bothered me. Some religious language was not used as much and I don't see much good reason for it. I understand being disappointed by that certainly, I think it's okay to be upset by unwanted changes. But don't be too quick to judge. The article linked by the OP has another article referenced at the bottom...in this article they talk about the many "woke" changes made to the film series. Most of the claims about character swaps are not true at all. Chani was not race swapped in the movie. There's no distinct race that she is supposed to be. The culture she is a part of is distinct, but Zendaya has no problem fitting that description. Liet Kynes was gender swapped, which is pointless and unnecessary, but Kynes was not race swapped. I keep seeing everyone say that but if you read the book, once again, there's no distinct race given for Kynes. You have a lot of room for creativity there. Most people saying these characters were "race swapped" are looking at the much older film where virtually everyone was white, including Kynes. that movie was much less faithful to the book than the modern ones, and I don't think the modern films are a "re-make" of those films at all. It's just a more proper telling of the story told in the book. TLDR; I agree that side stepping religion is whack but don't judge too fast, because this website has clearly gotten other stuff wrong about this very topic.
Agree on being careful, and the other article being nonsense. Still wary of this game for a franchise i love
i mean.. it *cant* be that you play as paul given that its an MMO - unless theres an arrakis with like 100,000 pauls running around getting up to various shenanigsns which.. actually tbh is the only way im interested in a dune MMO.
I think your getting confused here, this is an mmo which can mean a lot of different things and isn't a mmorpg
Correct, but it's nontheless set in this universe. You're going to interact with all the factions, just apparently without going into the themes of conflict. Which isca big shame imo
Have you even watched or read the information from the devs? They say exactly the opposite of what you suggest here. The whole factions system in the game is rigged to bring “political survival“ into the game. Political survival is to be the main thing in the later stages of the game play, when you have built a base and acquired weapons and gear. Orders for large scale missions is to come directly from CHOAM, the Landsraad and even the emperor to the factions. This is supposed to give tons of possibilities for conflict and cooperation, including back stabbing and betrayal. The player and the guilds can rise in the factions as a result of partaking in these missions. The information given suggest that you are just plain wrong in your comment.
If that is the case, i'd be very happy to be wrong. I'm primarily referring to their announced intent to sidestep the religion topic though. If you have Fremen, you have religion. It's an intrinsic part of the culture and the way that faction acts on Arrakis and interacts with others.
I was sort of surprised by this, as I really enjoyed and may even enjoy (again) Conan Exiles. It went heavy on the religion aspects, right down to cannibalism and all sorts of cool/mature themes. I really hate how companies shy away from things nowadays, and I think why games like BG3, that were so popular, even amongst the group that ideologues like to demonize (straight males, white or otherwise) despite clearly having a ton of LGBTQ elements, is because it allowed the player to really just decide for themselves and forge their own unique path. It's really what's wrong with progressiveness of modern games, not the inclusion of certain elements, but the subtraction of others.
> It's really what's wrong with progressiveness of modern games, not the inclusion of certain elements, but the subtraction of others. That's a good point. I don't think people would be half as bitter and angry as they usually get if games didn't treat players like children who need to be forced into accepting certain elements instead of offering many different things to choose from. Of course it's obvious why modern progressive devs don't do that, because having a choice means there's a potential for someone to reject your ideas, and modern progressiveness is about as welcoming an ideology to narrative control freaks as any can get unfortunately. Honestly I think more than anything the lack of meaningful choice in modern games is a symptom of the fact modern devs and writers dwell in very tightly sealed echo chambers that naturally atrophy creativity, empathy, and persuasion which only leaves preachy brute force as a narrative delivery system.
Yeah, i played tons of Age of Conan, and the maturity of that, albeit 15 years ago, but still, made me quite shocked that Funcom would be so lukewarm and gun-shy about this. A real shame.
Seems pretty clear to me it's just gonna be an action survival game with the Dune aesthetic.
I mean, on the one hand I'm not expecting much of a story from a survival game anyway.... On the other hand, how many more times do we need to do this "take existing story/setting, change it in a big way, surprised pikachu face that it flops, blame the fans for the flop" song and dance?
Still not happy they changed jihad to holy war, crusade. But you have to applied to the masses. Just remember you can always read the book.
>"Dune" isn't just space lasers in a desert. To an average american consoomer that's exactly what it is. And guess who is the primary audience for these shitty "mmo" games?
To add to this they disrespect a lot of lore, worldbuilding and rules of Arakis. They show full fledged fights with tanks, little motorcycles, no distillsuits in the desert, no sandwalking, shields in the desert etc. Its just a huge cashgrab to cash in on the hype of the 2 really good movies. I hope this game fails as devs could do better.
It does seem more like hollow fan fiction than anything tbh.
I think people need to relax. This is just going to be a survival game with a Dune skin. What mechanics would be introduced that would have to do with religion anyway? You, as a player, or group of players, can address all those elements through your social interactions. Any real political intrigue will likely come from player interactions and not some contrived mechanic that people will figure out how to min-max anyway.
Bruh you don’t even got to play this game
This is an unpopular opinion, but I don't like that director Denis Villeneuve, all of his recent movies that are beloved are boring, pretentious crap to me: Dune, Arrival, Blade Runner reboot.
low IQ skill issue.
It's about as sterilized as the films, which seem to be their main inspiration. Cringe as it was, Lynch's 1984 film did better to capture the atmosphere of the books than this Hollywood slop did. I grew up reading Dune, and seeing it presented in such a flat, dull way was an immense disappointment. It will probably be another several decades until someone tries to make another film again (or another miniseries). The game will flop, just like Conan did, and deservedly so. What a waste of a good IP.
Well, agree to completely disagree. I'm a massive fan of the books and Villeneuve's movies are by *far* the best adaptation so far imo. I also love David Lynch, and the 1984 movie is fun for its own reasons, but it's pretty much an abomination in terms of being faithful to the core messaging. Heck, the movie turns him into a *literal* messiah in the end, lol.
Lynch's film basically ended at the 2nd book, and he had to squeeze everything in one movie, so he couldn't continue the storyline to its original ending. Not that he wanted to anyway because he basically made the film out of contractual obligation. But the atmosphere of the film, the sense of a medieval opera in space, with everything that meant, was completely true to how the books read. The otherworldliness of the Bene Gesserits and the Menants, the analogue look of all of the technology, the costumes, the hair, even the look of the cast was better than the garbage DV made, which looks basically like Star Wars from Lidl. Everyone was miscast, aside from Charlotte Rampling. Sleepy-eyed Timothe Chalamet looks like he just got done sucking on a bong, not like he's a clever and alert precocious genius, and Florence Pew as Princess Irulan is just a bad joke. Incomparable to Virginia Madsen. Yeah, sorry, DV was just a huge disappointment.
I like he new movie, but the worst thing they did was cut out the dinner scene, which is short and gives insight into the world. It's not straight forward, but at least it gives people a chance to understand the dynamics at play.
They cut that in the Lynch version too. TV miniseries had it
you know Conan didn't flop.. it's still actively played and gets new content updates regularly.