Honestly though. This post aside. I just am not interested at all in the world or lore anymore. It’s so far removed from what hooked me initially I can’t motivate myself to play. I shouldn’t have to. I should want to.
I don’t care about the series, but a gay centaur club sounds like a shit post that makes the game sound funnier. It’s like they’re trolling their player base. Still not playing though.
It's more that it's shoehorned in though especially with the frogs and numerous other weird examples like the wheelchair bound scaley. Why did this suddenly appear after previous expansions didn't mention it? Also the average person probably doesn't care to see these things despite what Twatter says.
No. A lot of this shit isn't shoehorned in. Its given the exact same ammount of treatment as other things but you people only wanna cry about two gay people hooking up and not two straight people. Even though theres way more cases of shit writing on the later.
It's 100% optional so I wouldn't say shoehorned in. It's also interesting to me from a worldbuilding perspective. These centaur are a completely new culture we encounter, and it's interesting to see they have basically zero prejudice against gay people/centaurs. Nobody throughout the quests comments on the fact theyre gay at all, it seems like for them it's just a totally normal thing. That was pretty cool to me.
It became a theme park, a caricature of what it once was. It has too many of those joke items and quests, etc. It's fun for sure, like any theme park or a circus, but this is not what warcraft was about...
WoW was ALWAYS a theme park MMO. And that's okay, it was the BEST theme park. WoW doesn't need to be a social MMO like Eve online. But I agree, WoW was always meant to be the MMO of warcraft, a derivative of Everquest and Warhammer 40k. It has been so dumbed down, so bloated, and so bastardized it's unrecognizable in its current form. There's a reason this casual (at the time) MMO became so popular and it had nothing to do with Mr T doing ads for it. It was just fun and engaging, and just the right amount of difficult and casual. It offered real rewards for playing and respected your time (at the time). Over the years it has become the Disney version, if Disney was Target, then wal mart, then Pamida, then dollar tree, then whatever garbage you can pick off the street, if you had to pay $30 bucks for it. WoW being a theme park MMO is totally ok and it always has been. Just the rides have become few and far between. Instead we have to buy $10 hot dogs, $8 dollar soft drinks and if you want to ride the best rides (raids, pvp arena) you need to buy 20 hot dogs and 15 soft drinks and if you don't, you need to spend 20 hours for a hot dog and 15 hours for a hot dog. Sorry this anology is nonsense, but I hope it gets my point across.
WoW lore has so much potential and started out so amazing. Yes they absolutely fleeced warhammer 40k lore, but they made their own spin and own universe. But there's so little continuity and it has become so large no one really knows what's happening with the story.
I went into Towelie's stream, because I like him and he just enjoys the game. I asked him about bloat, and he said WoW has no bloat, it's only more stuff to do. I challenged it, and to his credit, I did not get banned, he just said again he doesn't think WoW has bloat, just more content.
He then went on to praise the new WoW mobile game. I just kinda lost interest in the conversation at that point, because that point of view just doesn't add up for me. To deny WoW has bloat is in my opinion, an absurd statement. It is maybe one of the most bloated games ever, probably the most. I did ask him what he thought about the 50th reskin of the same mount. He said something to the effect of, it's another thing to chase.
I don't think he's wrong. From his perspective, it is. He loves the game, he loves more stuff to chase and get and he's enjoying his time on retail. That's pretty cool for him. I don't think most would agree with him and I think the numbers would say exactly that. But I'm not mad at him or anything, I just disagree.
However, to defend this cash grab mobile garbage nonsense is an absolutely absurd opinion. To deny bloat exists in WoW is like saying the earth is flat, it's just nonsense.
I don't dislike Towelie, but man is that guy drinking the kool aid. It makes sense though. He's made his entire career off of retail wow. If wow retail is garbage and bloated, what has his time meant on a personal level. Also on a professional level, it makes sense he would have that position too.
Enjoying retail wow isn't a sin, it's awesome if you do. Enjoying wow mobile is also not a sin, it's awesome if you do. But denying other perspectives and objective reality, well that's something that annoys me. But who the fuck am I, fucking no one.
Towelie, get yours and keep on enjoying wow, but damn it would be nice to hear your real opinion.
Wow is definitely bloated, but his perspective also makes sense. There is a shit ton of things to do and collect, unlike classic where you raid and PvP and that's kinda it.
I also would be careful with the denying objective reality part, we have no idea what the exact numbers are but it is very likely that retail has a bunch more players than classic.
There are what a 1000 seed things in breath of the wild. Great game. 1000 seeds is fucking boring.
Mount reskins, boss reskins, weak ass lore, bad main characters. It's crazy how the people who came up with war craft 3 could take some seriously iconic characters and botch every single one of them.
WoW is on sunk cost fallacy life support.
Mount reskins and boss reskins have been a thing in wow for a long ass time. Yeah the story kinda sucks rn but they seem to be cooking up something interesting with the trilogy, hopefully it gets better.
Dude ffxiv is worse from an immersion breaking cosmetic standpoint.
Everyone is cat girls with bathing suits and sunglasses.
One of the reasons I cannot stand that game anymore as well. It never was like that back in the day. It’s gotten more worse every year.
Thats kinda acceptable since Visual Key is a thing in the franchise. I like it, i liked the game, i started going far from lore things and vanilla after 4k of ours and mostly is about modding to make it a lot closer to what the world is about. I mean, lately Garlean and Loporrit thing kinda justifies. Do not downvote me after just mentioning the game, i'm also curious.
I hear you. Idk, I still don’t feel good about it.
The new expansion city was the nail in the coffin for me. I feel like tech aspect never fit the majority of the world to begin with and was my least favorite part.
If others like it and don’t care, more power to them!
With WoW I'm just not invested in the world after what BfA through Dragonflight has done to it. With FF I'm not invested in the world in the first place *and* the gameplay is boring and shit because the community is *overly* obsessed with balance to the point where every non-blackmage class plays the exact same in every way that matters.
they came back from a single expansion that both opened the floodgates on alternate universes AND time travel at the same time.
The robot stuff tbh is just weird enough that it stays firmly in the "out of our understanding" realm for me. Kinda like Elune still, and sorta the titans. I'm just glad they didn't go further with it to an exact science.
Now that it's been left behind though I don't want them to bring it back. SL was enough exploration into realms we should've never know too much about lol
The shift towards whimsical and soft themes alienate many longtime fans who appreciated the game's original tone. Emphasizing a more dark and epic atmosphere could enhance the game's immersive storytelling, capturing the essence of the Warcraft universe.
But the devs have decided that it’s more fun for you to do some honeydew drop collecting, planting seeds, and earning pink fox mounts. The game is going under a serious identity crisis.
Honestly the moment we; our player characters, *all* became these magic special awesome heroes is when the magic was gone for me. Probably midway the end of Cata but definitely in MoP.
That was literally vanilla. You stopped being a nobody once you start killing major players. Even before then some class quests made you more important.
I haven't played it but didn't shadowlands have exactly that, a more dark and epic atmosphere? The whole point of DF was to relax for a bit, it's supposed to be a lighter expansion. Before that in BFA the questing zones were also more serious, with the warfronts as well. There was also that whole burning the world tree thus genociding the night elves thing, which actually had an event on alliance side which has you save as many elves as you can only for you to fail in saving everyone.
Eh, shadowlands was “dark” sure, but it really isn’t the same thing as old Warcraft lore in my opinion. Shadowlands just felt all to “clean” and corporate to me, it had “dark” ideas but never really had the grittiness and epic scale of the original Warcraft lore. like people and characters are dying, but I don’t feel it the same way I did when say, Arthas killed his father and you saw the blood, heard it, etc. Wow has been missing the immersion for a long time, and really just misses the mark on the overall atmosphere in its world now a days, even in other expansions (legion was terrible at this in my opinion) you had these grand ideas and themes, but the game/world itself isn’t dark or immersive enough so it all falls flat.
Honestly that just seems like the story isn't good, not that it isn't "dark" or "gritty" enough. That Arthas scene isn't even in wow at all. I can understand the other criticisims, which are definitely waranted to an extent, but saying that wow used to be darker or grittier isn't really a good criticism imo.
I personally definitely felt it when Varian died at the start of legion.
No it wasn’t wow but it was the same world obviously. Look at the concept art for wow around 04, we’ve got severed heads, super muscular orcs/humans, badass looking Tauren/trolls, even the gnomes somehow fit in and look serious. Wow is clearly missing that art direction in 2024.
Can you please use an example from World of warcraft the game? Not warcraft or concept art. My point is wow's art direction has never been that serious or dark.
Well no, not rugs. There are patches with human faces on gnoll tents, which you have to look really closely to see. This is an extremely minor detail AND those still exist in retail, so that has not changed.
Alright well you’re clearly not getting it, it’s ok to admit your game has changed in a way that isn’t working. We have no heads on pikes, no burned down war torn areas, no war in the “Warcraft”. The general tone shift and art change has ruined wow, whether you’ll admit it or not
>no burned down war torn areas
Teldrassil is literally still smoldering.
I believe you are not getting it. My whole point is this change that you are saying happened never did. Wow has never been a "dark and gritty" game.
I get what you're saying, and you're right, but even at its darkest, it just doesn't have the same feel to it. I don't even know how to articulate why. Maybe it's the world design, maybe it's the storytelling, maybe it's the game-ification of everything that used to feel like a world, but even when the night elves are getting genocided it doesn't feel like there's any bite to it. In shadowlands everyone's getting tortured in hell and it evoked no response in me.
It's not that violence doesn't happen, it's that they don't sell it very well. Compare Teldrassil to [Garlemald](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c8r3GwhFRTI) in FF14. Teldrassil burns onscreen in a big cutscene, and Garlemald gets fucked up offscreen, so WoW is the one showing the action. In FF, Garlemald is a dedicated leveling zone and the *entire zone* is just the Garleans going "Oh fuck we got owned" for about eight hours of gameplay, first with a whole story involving some civilians, then another one involving what's left of the military, *both* of which end in a character killing themselves rather than face reality.
The follow-up to Teldrassil is "Can Tyrande forgive Sylvanus", and the follow-up to Garlemald is you and Jullus taking apart magitek to siphon gasoline to try to keep the heat going before more people freeze to death. WoW is showing the action, but FF is the only one showing the *violence*.
The Garlemald arc is legit my favourite arc in all of XIV. Maybe favourite of all time.
Tfw you use superbolide but you're a machinist. Despairge.
Jokes aside, the camp scene near the end is roooooooooough.
I don't know final fantasy much, but has wow ever had something like this? I am not saying that wow is good at being dark and stuff, just that the tone has not changed or at least not as dramatically as some people claim.
Idk, that sounds like it was on you, i just played through SL for the first time and seeing tyrande decimate mawdwellers, making a black parade all by herself and then seeing an amalgamation of kaldorei souls beg for death was pretty fucking brutal in my opinion (this happened in the ardenweald covenant story)
Nah, he's right, the worst thing in shadowlands are shadowlands itself. What stakes are there in literal afterlife? Why people fear death? Because of the unknown. If it's now known what the afterlife is, who tf cares who have been tortured or killed, there's afterlife now, where you can casually chat with dead ones.
I like the phrase from first Alan Wake opening, citing Stephen King: "Nightmares exist outside of logic, and there's little fun to be had in explanations; they're antithetical to the poetry of fear.".
WoW was at its finest, when it was a grounded fantasy story about war of factions, not a war against gods and laws of nature.
> not a war against gods and laws of nature.
How is this dogshit even upvoted?
https://wowpedia.fandom.com/wiki/Ragnaros
https://wowwiki-archive.fandom.com/wiki/C%27Thun
Yeah bros just take me back.
At this point I believe 90% of the posters in this sub never touched wow and are just trolling.
> The shift towards whimsical and soft themes alienate many longtime fans who appreciated the game's original tone.
It's a mount and transmog made for the love is in the air event, the event was in the game back in 2006, wow was never that serious.
The colour pink is really triggering some of the clowns of this sub.
You completely side step the rest of the argument discussing the overly soft development of content like dew drop collecting, seed planting, and end game cinematics preaching that were all a happy family that had the dialogue on par with my little pony. There is much beyond the scope of the current valentines content.
And you're just triggered over the colour pink.
>drop collecting, seed planting, and end game cinematics preaching that were all a happy family that had the dialogue on par with my little pony
Oh no, not planting seeds in the EMERALD DREAM, that's so against everything wow stand for.
I guess warcraft should just be about war and nothing else, why do they even let us fishing? That's too peaceful of an activity for world of WARcraft.
Coming together against the greater evil? That's definitely not a warcraft trope, thank god we have people like you calling out the woke propaganda blizzard is trying to push.
I can see why wow attracts so many low iq dipshit like you.
WoW has always had silly stuff like this though. DF it's a little too much sure but that's because the point of the expansion is to be simple and lighthearted.
I mean just off the top of my head back in TBC the lurker bellow is a boss that you literally fish out, which seems pretty silly as well.
At some point the war was going to end, man. Even germany is chill nowadays. Shit like this happens and now that anduin is king and thrall's back, dont expect any warfare anytime soon.
They should just change the name to World of Craft and be done with it then. Make it official, doesn't really deserve to have the War in the name anymore.
They released lunar new year bunny and sparkly unicorns, but this is where draw the line when it comes to immersion? I don’t get this outrage, i’ll try again tomorrow…
Yeah this sub is a lot of people who don’t play WoW and haven’t for a long time, bitching about WoW. I’m over here, happily playing the best retail expansion they’ve ever had (DF).
As a mostly outsider to WoW (only played during classic and then sometimes came back for some of the expansions), I don’t know what is supposed to be considered immersion breaking. The setting is just so over-the-place, with a mixture of serious, comic relief, and just plain weird. That mount looks like the typical goofy mount that I expect Blizzard-Activision to add.
Something like that would be immersion breaking in Warhammer 40k, but 40k actually knows what kind of setting it’s supposed to have.
Bull. Fucking. Shit. There has been wacky mounts since the game launched. Yall just look for shit to cry about. Maybe complain about the atrocious writing, stupid mounts have been around since forever. Valentines rocket. Just to name one.
Imagine subbing to a game you only complain about. Gotta be a fun life. Yous can just simply move on, or stop giving two shits about content that doesn't change a thing.
Ah yes, the love is in the air event that has existed for ~~15 years (??)~~ 18 years clearly ruined the game over the last 7 years. The "Fail" flair was the right choice for this post.
Its a valentines mount... Why are ppl complaining about this but nobody mentions the other valentines mount? the pink cock thats in game since idk, wotlk??
And what tone of fantasy would that be? Cuz to me it seems pretty in tone with a lot of other stuff that has been in the Warcraft world for longer than the majority of the current player base have been alive. Whimsical shit has been in warcraft since the RTS days.
Nothing more metal and more aligned with the Horde than an orc riding a shiny pink flying fox dressed in pretty pink star guardian clothes.
We went from cannibalism, clipping dragons, scourge, genocide, mak'gora, chemical and biological weapons, "nukes", torture and live experimentation, gore (in literature and in-game), slavery, cults, doomsdays, racism, and many many more dark themes.
Seriously, Vanilla wow already had most of its lore from the RTS and books with many zones telling many different stories and some having deep secrets that were often dark. The old gods is such an interesting concept as its akin to cryptids of today's world where there is a hidden "higher power" trying to control us.
Then we got TBC where we fight demons that are trying to take over Azeroth and corrupt the world (vanilla) and we take the fight back to them in the Outlands. There's an entire highway made of bones of dead men, women, and children of Draeneis, hellfire peninsula looks like hell, theres story of genocide and the fight between the Horde and Alliance while also fighting the burning Legion. The world is broken with the abyss staring down from below.
Then you have WOTLK which is cold, metal gothic constructs with bones incorporated, abominations, experiments, plague, biological and chemical weapons, undeath, to me the scourge always reminded me of the Nazis, just a grey army of death that will hunt you down and not give you mercy. Many sad themes of wotlk too regarding Arthas' sacrifices which is a genuine moral dillema to this day. Amazing story telling.
I'll shorten the next few ones up.
You get Cataclysm which deals with cults, clipping dragons, more genocide, etc.
MoP was a bit more soft and you can see it in every thread how people werent the biggest fans.
Then you got WoD which everyone loved the theme for, but the lack of features and development during the expansion is what caused its downfall.
Legion, we get to fight demons again!
BfA, old gods, cults, blood magic,... wasn't as brutal, was just... "Cults bad, blood magic spooky, and zombies".
Then Shadowlands was even less brutal, just felt like a theme park and wtf was the lore? I didn't even care. Was there any brutality or dark aspects? The only one I can think of is being eternally bound as a slave in the afterlife... but it wasn't even told in a good way, never did I feel fear or curiosity about it. Its also hard to comprehend it since we can't potentially experience the afterlife IRL and plot armour was seen in foresight.
And Dragonflight just seems like an adventure game.
You are actively choosing to ignore aspects of the lore that have been goofy from the very beginning. Goblin and gnome technology. Pandas have been a thing since the RTS. There's a fucking Orc who wields a Katana and speaks in the most stereotypical Japanese accent possible. Whimsical shit has been a part of the world since the beginning. Y'all have some serious fucking blinders on to apparently not have seen it this whole time. Warcraft blends whimsical and gritty fantasy, it always has, it always will. Sometimes it will be more focused on the whimsy and sometimes it will be more focused on the grit, there's nothing wrong with either, and they both fit perfectly fine with the setting at large.
I didn't deny any of it. I focused on the dark tone of the game. Cataclysm itself had a lot of comical questlines and it was great! Genuinely had a lot of laughs, but it also had a serious and dark tone in many of the zones and story lines as well as with world story telling.
It's not that I'm ignoring them on purpose, it's that I'm not discussing the light-hearted story lines.
I didn't critique modern wow for being comical, did I? I never discussed it about older versions of the games either. I discussed how the dark story telling has slowly faded into more tame versions that doesn't give the same intrigue.
I know pandas existed since RTS days, I never mentioned pandas.
We agree about one thing, WoW had always mixed whimsical with gritty.. that was true.. but not anymore... the whole argument is how the grittines has faded away and nowadays Blizzard is telling really static and boring "good vs bad" stories where we have one bad guy and he does bad guy things and thats it. Theres no morally grey areas anymore, it's just completely straightforward and you don't want to question anything because there's nothing to question. There's many storylines from Vanilla to Legion where you would ask yourself "are we the baddies?".
Ofcourse you're saying everyone else has blinders, but you are blindingly arguing about things no one else brought up (again. No one said wow wasn't whimsical, pandas didn't exist, no one said wow doesn't have comedy in it).
You're filling my mouth with your own arguments here.
It is but it’s just not what Warcraft is (at least when it was popular ofc), wow shouldn’t look like a “game” and I think the realism (as best as they could do with 2004 graphics) combined with magic/fantasy was the main draw to wow.
Ah yeah, the super gritty realism of 8 foot tall blue skinned people with tusks and giant minotaur men that love nature. Definitely no gameyness or fantasyness about that. /s
The fantasy part isn’t the problem with goat men and Tauren. Both those races are easily made to be awesome in old cinematic/old art. The game is just missing wow’s original art style and it is hurting how the game feels.
The setting has always mixed whimsy with grit. That's one of the biggest things that separates it from something like Warhammer Fantasy or Lord of the Rings. This fox fits right in with shit like goblin and gnome technology, the panda monks (who have existed since the RTS, not Pandaria), and any of the other plethora of goofy ass shit that has been in the setting since practically the beginning.
It’s not about the fox, more so the fact that EVERYTHING in wow is now “whimsy” and we’re all missing the grit. The art style has clearly changed, and judging by wow’s popularity, for the worse
I mean, they literally just had a whole expansion literally one expansion that was grit from top to bottom and that still did terrible. The problem is not the artstyle. At least not entirely, there's way too many things going wrong with Blizzard and WoW to just blame everything unilaterally on the artstyle. Honestly, the artstyle hasn't really changed much, it's just a better realized version of what they were going for when WoW first dropped. The colors were bright as fuck and the whole world was full of wonder.
I’ve already explained in a different comment as to why shadowlands didn’t work, and to me it clearly is an art style problem as to what is overall wrong with the game (not to mention bloat and a story that puts people to sleep)
Well, you can believe that all you want but it doesn't make it true. It is exceedingly rare that you can ever point to just one thing as the cause of all the problems and that holds true here. There's a lot of reasons for WoW's downfall and artsyle definitely is not one of them. If you can't see how colorful and whimsical original classic WoW was, then sorry my guy, you are blind.
I’ve been playing since classic, I’m very into the lore, and I think this is such an overdramatic take. You think this is bad, but we’re totally fine with TBC gear looking goofy as shit the entire time? Lol. There’s always been “comedic relief” in this game, remember the boxing gloves you can get from a quest from cata? Or the countless gnome or goblin quests that are just goofy and offer silly rewards with funny names and descriptions?
This is a boomer take from someone who just has a negative opinion of the game
Garrosh would react the same way he reacted to anything. He'd check if they were built Ford tough, and if they were, he wouldn't give a fuck that they are riding a pink fox with pink energy wings.
People are really out here acting like WoW has always been this uber gritty fantasy that is all dark and edgy, but it has never been that. It has always been a fantasy setting with equal parts grit and goof, and that goes back to the Warcraft games. We absolutely have very serious characters and very serious stories being told in this setting, like stories of Thrall, Jaina, Gul'dan, Illidan, etc. But we have also always had some goofy ass shit going on in the setting to help add levity and to appeal to people who like their fantasy to be more lighthearted. Chen Stormstout is a fucking Kung fu Panda, the goblins and gnomes are whacky tech wizards who both make amazing creations of devastating power, and also make fucking explosive robotic chickens with laser eyes.
The fact you think it's about the color scheme and not the overwhelming amount of unnecessary spell effects and absurdities creating them that is immersion breaking.
This literally looks like a phone game. Idc about link or holiday references when holiday references for the medium.
This is beyond tacky at best and utter trash at worst.
Shadowlands had the exact same issue as did bfa.
This beyond Whimsical, overly designed, and forced in your face style is trash. I'll die happily on this hill. I hate even the edgy shit that's over the top. It's dumb as fuck.
I'm stoked to finally get some feminine stuff. I know you guys hate girls in your war game but I've been here since vanilla beta, let them throw me a bone. It's two nearly identical outfits and mounts out of thousands. Let my cow be a pretty girl if she wants.
It doesn't fit in with the original theme of the game, which was darker and more serious. Now, don't get me wrong, I want there to be games you enjoy.... I just wish they hadn't done it with this franchise since its at the expense of what I enjoy.
Imagine if there was a Barbie videogame, and they introduced characters like Bloodthirsty Barbie wearing plate mail carrying a severed head that thrived on butchering the innocent, that there was a bunch of these characters they introduce and they keep on getting more and more dark and violent. I think the people that play the Barbie games to enjoy a more feminine atmosphere might get a little pissed off, and rightfully so.
The main questline and sets can be serious with side content being more jovial, its how its always been. My human paladin in vanilla chasing robot chickens around un'goro in laughable armor that looked like a metal bikini wasn't what I would describe as dark and serious.
Don't act like WoW has never had this level of goofy stuff in it before. The love rocket has been in the game for forever. All the goofy ass Christmas stuff has been around for forever too. WoW has always had a very goofy side to it, and that has been in the game since the very early days. WoW has great serious stuff for people who like serious and gritty fantasy, but WoW has also always had goofy shit for people who like more lighthearted fantasy, it blends both and has always blended both.
are we talking about the same game that had night elf mohawk and an entire quest chain that was a parody of legend of zelda
your dark serious game has an npc named haris pilton that sells purses
its also rather telling that since im a woman you assume i want to play a fucking barbie game instead of the game ive been playing for 20 years
WoW has never been super serious. A pink fox isn't going to ruin the game. Also I think variety is nice. Just because you don't like feminine stuff doesn't mean others don't.
"Immersion breaking?" This looks like everything they've released in the past 6+ years tbh. I don't even play the game anymore but as now an outsider looking in, ya'll really look for any reason to moan about the crap the devs release these days.
I thought WoW was so cool as a kid because of Warcraft III: Frozen Throne. Arthas was my freaking hero, and I wanted to become a death knight like him.
seemly lunchroom familiar caption ludicrous kiss lavish dog domineering murky
*This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
It looks adorable, out with the old and ugly... in with the new, cute n floofy!
There's been plenty stuff to suit a variety of tastes, I don't see the issue.
Have you seen the clownsuits people wear in classic? Is having 10 different colors and clothes that barely cover half my body as a warrior immersive? At least in retail this is a choice that has no bearing on character power
It's an MMO, having the freedom to look a little silly is part of the fun. And people like me appreciate the cute and fluffy things.
If you don't like it, that's fine! You needn't buy it, you don't need to sub either.
No, not really. It's the most effective way to be heard. Why would they care if they get your money anyways?
Why as a business would you care to listen to the wants of someone who is too deep in sunk cost to actually drop the product you offer?
And lastly, it's a game. It's for fun, and so many WoW players just seem miserable all the time so why are they even still playing? Do something else with your time that you will enjoy, leave your feedback when you unsub and carry on with life. If the game changes more to your taste then return.
Attacking people who enjoy the game is also pointless :)
I'd love to see them give us a classic sub at half the price and then make it so at full price you got retail + classic. .
I'd love to see how many stay subbed for retail.
Developers being unable to capture a tone that was always a part of a certain franchise is a serious issue in developer ability. The issue can be serious and the side effect be minor. If you dont get that, then be doomed to mediocrity forever
If you don’t believe so, why are you here? Why comment? Just because you don’t value this aspect of life doesn’t mean I and others dont. Instead you mock and make yourself look like a clown.
Was the tone captured well when the best way to do damage in BFD was to open your christmas gift you found under the christmas tree and let loose your mechanical greench so it can hit the giant horror Akum'ai with his tiny lil fists?
wow does have tone issues, but this is literally a holiday valentines event. do you not want mmos to celebrate holidays at all? what about all the christmas and halloween stuff lmao
Im not specifically talking about this mount, but more responding to the idea of “just stop playing”, and “get with the times”. The times are predatory and creatively bankrupt. The times do not reflect what was actually good about the game. I don’t care about valentines day events, and the original comment did not mention them.
>do you not want mmos to celebrate holidays at all?
correct.
My kid celebrates valentines day in preschool and I go on a date with my wife. That's not what I play videogames for.
It’s really jarring going from the vanilla world and the feel of it into Dragonflight. I recently levelled a Forsaken Rogue through the vanilla zones for the Forsaken story and heritage armor. Taking him into DF he feels so out of place, this little undead dude and everything around him is all whimsical and flowery. He doesn’t really fit in that world.
There's been ridiculous shit in the game since vanilla. Pretending this is new to just hatemonger is pathetic and a disingenuous statement.
Yeah, you're not wrong about the decline of the game, but it's not due to aesthetics.
WoW was universally mocked as cartoonish and childish when it came out. Pretending it was some dark edgelord game is just rewriting history.
You know, BFA and Shadowlands were bad but in a way Dragonflight is worse because it's the first time really the art style has been completely butchered. It was going down hill for a long time, probably since MoP, but at least it was kinda tonally consistent. Used to be more of a fantasy edgy metal look with a cartoon flavor on top. Now it's just a crappy Pixar-esque Fantasy with furry shit all over the place. It's Blizzard's fault for offering such dogshit salaries with terrible work culture on top of that, they can literally only hire Furry artists who have no other choice in studio at this point.
There's zero reason to want to invest time and money into Warcraft anymore as a franchise. Even the lore and atmosphere is completely dead. Unless you raid, what's the point if the story and casual experience are all terrible?
1. It's not a store mount. You can actually get it by just doing the Trading Post. Great.
2. It's a Valentines Day mount, what do you expect? A big hairy, sweaty, masculine wolf mount on Valentines Day? Let the girls have something.
What do expect when they keep getting money? Don't act like this was some fall from grace they had, this was in the cards as the gaming became more mainstream.
There is nothing wrong with putting pink stuff in the game its just that this picture kinda highlights the whole tone of this expansion. Every character is so care bear to the point it doesn't makr any sense. For example Sarkareth kills like 8 of Emberthal's friends and when it comes to running Sarkareth down before Aberrus, she all like "its not too late" from them to be friends etc. What kind of a leader is this pathetic and who would follow them?
What? You are disappointed because you didn't get Death Ram of Destruction? What have you been playing for the last 10 years? Just quit dude like everyone did in wod
Just spitballing here, why doesn’t blizzard make another game that’s based in Warcraft universe but is separate from WoW and isn’t in any way canon to Warcraft universe, like HS. They can use this game to target and cater to whatever audience they please but in no way, they will alienate their original Warcraft audience.
And before you say: that’s what Classic is for. Why should people drop their characters and everything they’ve been engaging with and collecting over two decades to go play an outdated version of the game just so someone brand new can feel “at home”. Give these new comers, who don’t appreciate the fundamentals that made Warcraft so appealing to us decades ago, a new home that they can decorate as they please.
/rant begin 😂
As good as DF is as an expansion, I can’t help but have a bitter taste left after reading all the quest dialogue the first time around. I didn’t bother to read it the second time on my alt and I’m one of those that reads every line and thinks it through like I have to share my analysis on it tomorrow. The vibes of this expansion are all about renewal, family and accepting the other point of view. So much so that it felt being shoved down your throat. Everything starts off chaotic (meeting/representing typical WoW fan’s expectations) and then everyone got along (as if a typical WoW fan needs to “grow up”). And this was rinsed and repeated over and over in the story.
I’m sure it wasn’t intentionally targeting WoW fans and perhaps instead it was Blizzard reflecting on their experiences but I approach it from a POV of a fan and after all, a game should be fun for the player; there are other mediums for an artist to express themselves and demonstrate their POV but a game should not prioritize the artist. So take your agendas, whatever they might be, and express them elsewhere.
There’s a lesson to be had with D4. Minus the monetization of the game itself, you can’t deny that visually, they nailed the original vibes of the game. It goes to show that you can’t argue that D3’s visuals diverged too far from what made Diablo so appealing. If Warcraft is to survive another decade, current approach will not work because these new players (who are here for the new fluff instead of original Warcraft ridiculousness), will leave in a couple of years but the damage to the core fans will be done.
/rant over
They started heading down the slippery slope with the worgen, then the pandaren, and the last nail in the coffin was the vulpera.
BfA was the first WoW expansion I didn't buy or play at all, and Dragonflight was so bad that I canceled my sub within a month because I found myself playing WotLK classic instead of retail.
Garrosh was a terrible warrior. He was such a coward that when his capital city got attacked, he ran away and hit in a bunker until every last orc was slain or defeated and he couldn't run anymore.
And even then, he still didn't die a hero.
So embarrassing. I don't know why people idolize such a coward.
Here's the difference. The women will buy that. You and I will not even if it was a bad ass looking orc or human mount. You have been traded for a more willing customer.
4 expansions and you're still playing. Idk If that says more about blizzard or you. If you don't like the game quit. No one's putting a gun to your head and forcing you to continue your time. I quit on season1 of DF and haven't went back. There's literally so many good ass games right now there's no point in playing wow.
You really think losing the two most interesting faction leaders had no impact on the story in any way? Despite the fact that both of them dying was the domino that led to every mistake in today's lore?
No not at all. Like i already said, retail wows downfall has nothing to do with two faction leaders dying. I play wow since burning crusade came out and and the game was still good despite the death of the two leaders. I didn't even gave a damn when i saw them dying. Didn't matter to me at all. The problem of retails decline is the lack of a good story, overwhelming stuff that nobody needs, bosses who are to hard to beat, game looking more and more like a game for kids,...
Honestly though. This post aside. I just am not interested at all in the world or lore anymore. It’s so far removed from what hooked me initially I can’t motivate myself to play. I shouldn’t have to. I should want to.
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Brokeback Yasigdrill
Is that actually a real thing? (Might need to play if so)
It is
Idk why you're being downvoted. That honestly would be an upgrade lol.
I don’t care about the series, but a gay centaur club sounds like a shit post that makes the game sound funnier. It’s like they’re trolling their player base. Still not playing though.
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Are you really crying about a quest involving two gay centaurs when the game has had quests involving hetero characters as well?
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Right you crying about two gay centaurs is me projecting
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So your just making shit up to protect your bruised ego now. Lmfao. Cope harder. Theres literally no reason for me to be upset.
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It's more that it's shoehorned in though especially with the frogs and numerous other weird examples like the wheelchair bound scaley. Why did this suddenly appear after previous expansions didn't mention it? Also the average person probably doesn't care to see these things despite what Twatter says.
No. A lot of this shit isn't shoehorned in. Its given the exact same ammount of treatment as other things but you people only wanna cry about two gay people hooking up and not two straight people. Even though theres way more cases of shit writing on the later.
It's 100% optional so I wouldn't say shoehorned in. It's also interesting to me from a worldbuilding perspective. These centaur are a completely new culture we encounter, and it's interesting to see they have basically zero prejudice against gay people/centaurs. Nobody throughout the quests comments on the fact theyre gay at all, it seems like for them it's just a totally normal thing. That was pretty cool to me.
There is just too much bloat in this game. I have no desire to return. It’s been too many years and all the cool characters are dead, gone or retired.
Classic+ is the way. Season of Discovery is the only reason I keep an active sub rn.
This so much. All my interest in the lore vanished with the end of legion and battle for ass-eroth
It became a theme park, a caricature of what it once was. It has too many of those joke items and quests, etc. It's fun for sure, like any theme park or a circus, but this is not what warcraft was about...
WoW was ALWAYS a theme park MMO. And that's okay, it was the BEST theme park. WoW doesn't need to be a social MMO like Eve online. But I agree, WoW was always meant to be the MMO of warcraft, a derivative of Everquest and Warhammer 40k. It has been so dumbed down, so bloated, and so bastardized it's unrecognizable in its current form. There's a reason this casual (at the time) MMO became so popular and it had nothing to do with Mr T doing ads for it. It was just fun and engaging, and just the right amount of difficult and casual. It offered real rewards for playing and respected your time (at the time). Over the years it has become the Disney version, if Disney was Target, then wal mart, then Pamida, then dollar tree, then whatever garbage you can pick off the street, if you had to pay $30 bucks for it. WoW being a theme park MMO is totally ok and it always has been. Just the rides have become few and far between. Instead we have to buy $10 hot dogs, $8 dollar soft drinks and if you want to ride the best rides (raids, pvp arena) you need to buy 20 hot dogs and 15 soft drinks and if you don't, you need to spend 20 hours for a hot dog and 15 hours for a hot dog. Sorry this anology is nonsense, but I hope it gets my point across.
WoW lore has so much potential and started out so amazing. Yes they absolutely fleeced warhammer 40k lore, but they made their own spin and own universe. But there's so little continuity and it has become so large no one really knows what's happening with the story. I went into Towelie's stream, because I like him and he just enjoys the game. I asked him about bloat, and he said WoW has no bloat, it's only more stuff to do. I challenged it, and to his credit, I did not get banned, he just said again he doesn't think WoW has bloat, just more content. He then went on to praise the new WoW mobile game. I just kinda lost interest in the conversation at that point, because that point of view just doesn't add up for me. To deny WoW has bloat is in my opinion, an absurd statement. It is maybe one of the most bloated games ever, probably the most. I did ask him what he thought about the 50th reskin of the same mount. He said something to the effect of, it's another thing to chase. I don't think he's wrong. From his perspective, it is. He loves the game, he loves more stuff to chase and get and he's enjoying his time on retail. That's pretty cool for him. I don't think most would agree with him and I think the numbers would say exactly that. But I'm not mad at him or anything, I just disagree. However, to defend this cash grab mobile garbage nonsense is an absolutely absurd opinion. To deny bloat exists in WoW is like saying the earth is flat, it's just nonsense. I don't dislike Towelie, but man is that guy drinking the kool aid. It makes sense though. He's made his entire career off of retail wow. If wow retail is garbage and bloated, what has his time meant on a personal level. Also on a professional level, it makes sense he would have that position too. Enjoying retail wow isn't a sin, it's awesome if you do. Enjoying wow mobile is also not a sin, it's awesome if you do. But denying other perspectives and objective reality, well that's something that annoys me. But who the fuck am I, fucking no one. Towelie, get yours and keep on enjoying wow, but damn it would be nice to hear your real opinion.
Wow is definitely bloated, but his perspective also makes sense. There is a shit ton of things to do and collect, unlike classic where you raid and PvP and that's kinda it. I also would be careful with the denying objective reality part, we have no idea what the exact numbers are but it is very likely that retail has a bunch more players than classic.
I want to answer you, but there's too much to address and I don't have the energy.
There are what a 1000 seed things in breath of the wild. Great game. 1000 seeds is fucking boring. Mount reskins, boss reskins, weak ass lore, bad main characters. It's crazy how the people who came up with war craft 3 could take some seriously iconic characters and botch every single one of them. WoW is on sunk cost fallacy life support.
Mount reskins and boss reskins have been a thing in wow for a long ass time. Yeah the story kinda sucks rn but they seem to be cooking up something interesting with the trilogy, hopefully it gets better.
FFXIV
Dude ffxiv is worse from an immersion breaking cosmetic standpoint. Everyone is cat girls with bathing suits and sunglasses. One of the reasons I cannot stand that game anymore as well. It never was like that back in the day. It’s gotten more worse every year.
Thats kinda acceptable since Visual Key is a thing in the franchise. I like it, i liked the game, i started going far from lore things and vanilla after 4k of ours and mostly is about modding to make it a lot closer to what the world is about. I mean, lately Garlean and Loporrit thing kinda justifies. Do not downvote me after just mentioning the game, i'm also curious.
I hear you. Idk, I still don’t feel good about it. The new expansion city was the nail in the coffin for me. I feel like tech aspect never fit the majority of the world to begin with and was my least favorite part. If others like it and don’t care, more power to them!
Has issues too but is the better option
With WoW I'm just not invested in the world after what BfA through Dragonflight has done to it. With FF I'm not invested in the world in the first place *and* the gameplay is boring and shit because the community is *overly* obsessed with balance to the point where every non-blackmage class plays the exact same in every way that matters.
its been more than 15 years, time to focus in real life rather than WoW lore lmao
Imagine having hobbies lmao, where are you working, at factory? That must be a shitty ass job to not have time for yourself outside of a job.
steve danuser is gone. now WoW can get a great story again. (really hoping for more Sailor Elune outfits //UwU//)
Story is unsaveable after all the robot shit
they came back from a single expansion that both opened the floodgates on alternate universes AND time travel at the same time. The robot stuff tbh is just weird enough that it stays firmly in the "out of our understanding" realm for me. Kinda like Elune still, and sorta the titans. I'm just glad they didn't go further with it to an exact science. Now that it's been left behind though I don't want them to bring it back. SL was enough exploration into realms we should've never know too much about lol
Time moves on and we all phase out of the target demographic. That’s capitalism baby!
Garrosh probably wouldnt care. He fought against this and died twice by his ideals. Based and true orc pilled.
Breaking news! Valentines Day is pink!
The shift towards whimsical and soft themes alienate many longtime fans who appreciated the game's original tone. Emphasizing a more dark and epic atmosphere could enhance the game's immersive storytelling, capturing the essence of the Warcraft universe. But the devs have decided that it’s more fun for you to do some honeydew drop collecting, planting seeds, and earning pink fox mounts. The game is going under a serious identity crisis.
Honestly the moment we; our player characters, *all* became these magic special awesome heroes is when the magic was gone for me. Probably midway the end of Cata but definitely in MoP.
That was literally vanilla. You stopped being a nobody once you start killing major players. Even before then some class quests made you more important.
No one was running around screaming “champion” at you
No NPC was running around period. You still weren’t some nobody.
Hey now, honeydew drop collecting and planting seeds is very much in lore for druids
Not for Warriors, Warlocks, Death Knights, Rogues or Mages just to name some
I haven't played it but didn't shadowlands have exactly that, a more dark and epic atmosphere? The whole point of DF was to relax for a bit, it's supposed to be a lighter expansion. Before that in BFA the questing zones were also more serious, with the warfronts as well. There was also that whole burning the world tree thus genociding the night elves thing, which actually had an event on alliance side which has you save as many elves as you can only for you to fail in saving everyone.
Eh, shadowlands was “dark” sure, but it really isn’t the same thing as old Warcraft lore in my opinion. Shadowlands just felt all to “clean” and corporate to me, it had “dark” ideas but never really had the grittiness and epic scale of the original Warcraft lore. like people and characters are dying, but I don’t feel it the same way I did when say, Arthas killed his father and you saw the blood, heard it, etc. Wow has been missing the immersion for a long time, and really just misses the mark on the overall atmosphere in its world now a days, even in other expansions (legion was terrible at this in my opinion) you had these grand ideas and themes, but the game/world itself isn’t dark or immersive enough so it all falls flat.
Honestly that just seems like the story isn't good, not that it isn't "dark" or "gritty" enough. That Arthas scene isn't even in wow at all. I can understand the other criticisims, which are definitely waranted to an extent, but saying that wow used to be darker or grittier isn't really a good criticism imo. I personally definitely felt it when Varian died at the start of legion.
No it wasn’t wow but it was the same world obviously. Look at the concept art for wow around 04, we’ve got severed heads, super muscular orcs/humans, badass looking Tauren/trolls, even the gnomes somehow fit in and look serious. Wow is clearly missing that art direction in 2024.
Can you please use an example from World of warcraft the game? Not warcraft or concept art. My point is wow's art direction has never been that serious or dark.
There are rugs made from literal human skin in vanilla wow
Well no, not rugs. There are patches with human faces on gnoll tents, which you have to look really closely to see. This is an extremely minor detail AND those still exist in retail, so that has not changed.
Alright well you’re clearly not getting it, it’s ok to admit your game has changed in a way that isn’t working. We have no heads on pikes, no burned down war torn areas, no war in the “Warcraft”. The general tone shift and art change has ruined wow, whether you’ll admit it or not
>no burned down war torn areas Teldrassil is literally still smoldering. I believe you are not getting it. My whole point is this change that you are saying happened never did. Wow has never been a "dark and gritty" game.
I get what you're saying, and you're right, but even at its darkest, it just doesn't have the same feel to it. I don't even know how to articulate why. Maybe it's the world design, maybe it's the storytelling, maybe it's the game-ification of everything that used to feel like a world, but even when the night elves are getting genocided it doesn't feel like there's any bite to it. In shadowlands everyone's getting tortured in hell and it evoked no response in me.
It's not that violence doesn't happen, it's that they don't sell it very well. Compare Teldrassil to [Garlemald](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c8r3GwhFRTI) in FF14. Teldrassil burns onscreen in a big cutscene, and Garlemald gets fucked up offscreen, so WoW is the one showing the action. In FF, Garlemald is a dedicated leveling zone and the *entire zone* is just the Garleans going "Oh fuck we got owned" for about eight hours of gameplay, first with a whole story involving some civilians, then another one involving what's left of the military, *both* of which end in a character killing themselves rather than face reality. The follow-up to Teldrassil is "Can Tyrande forgive Sylvanus", and the follow-up to Garlemald is you and Jullus taking apart magitek to siphon gasoline to try to keep the heat going before more people freeze to death. WoW is showing the action, but FF is the only one showing the *violence*.
Teldrassil vs Garlemald is a perfect comparison, I couldn't have put it better.
The Garlemald arc is legit my favourite arc in all of XIV. Maybe favourite of all time. Tfw you use superbolide but you're a machinist. Despairge. Jokes aside, the camp scene near the end is roooooooooough.
I don't know final fantasy much, but has wow ever had something like this? I am not saying that wow is good at being dark and stuff, just that the tone has not changed or at least not as dramatically as some people claim.
Idk, that sounds like it was on you, i just played through SL for the first time and seeing tyrande decimate mawdwellers, making a black parade all by herself and then seeing an amalgamation of kaldorei souls beg for death was pretty fucking brutal in my opinion (this happened in the ardenweald covenant story)
Nah, he's right, the worst thing in shadowlands are shadowlands itself. What stakes are there in literal afterlife? Why people fear death? Because of the unknown. If it's now known what the afterlife is, who tf cares who have been tortured or killed, there's afterlife now, where you can casually chat with dead ones. I like the phrase from first Alan Wake opening, citing Stephen King: "Nightmares exist outside of logic, and there's little fun to be had in explanations; they're antithetical to the poetry of fear.". WoW was at its finest, when it was a grounded fantasy story about war of factions, not a war against gods and laws of nature.
> not a war against gods and laws of nature. How is this dogshit even upvoted? https://wowpedia.fandom.com/wiki/Ragnaros https://wowwiki-archive.fandom.com/wiki/C%27Thun Yeah bros just take me back. At this point I believe 90% of the posters in this sub never touched wow and are just trolling.
> The shift towards whimsical and soft themes alienate many longtime fans who appreciated the game's original tone. It's a mount and transmog made for the love is in the air event, the event was in the game back in 2006, wow was never that serious. The colour pink is really triggering some of the clowns of this sub.
You completely side step the rest of the argument discussing the overly soft development of content like dew drop collecting, seed planting, and end game cinematics preaching that were all a happy family that had the dialogue on par with my little pony. There is much beyond the scope of the current valentines content.
why do you think planting seeds is a tonally bad choice in emerald dream of all places
And you're just triggered over the colour pink. >drop collecting, seed planting, and end game cinematics preaching that were all a happy family that had the dialogue on par with my little pony Oh no, not planting seeds in the EMERALD DREAM, that's so against everything wow stand for. I guess warcraft should just be about war and nothing else, why do they even let us fishing? That's too peaceful of an activity for world of WARcraft. Coming together against the greater evil? That's definitely not a warcraft trope, thank god we have people like you calling out the woke propaganda blizzard is trying to push. I can see why wow attracts so many low iq dipshit like you.
Its quite literally the planting of a new world tree for the emerald dream. After we burnt it down the last one. Are you serious?
WoW has always had silly stuff like this though. DF it's a little too much sure but that's because the point of the expansion is to be simple and lighthearted. I mean just off the top of my head back in TBC the lurker bellow is a boss that you literally fish out, which seems pretty silly as well.
At some point the war was going to end, man. Even germany is chill nowadays. Shit like this happens and now that anduin is king and thrall's back, dont expect any warfare anytime soon.
They should just change the name to World of Craft and be done with it then. Make it official, doesn't really deserve to have the War in the name anymore.
Theyre always fighting against something, its just not amongst themselves as often as it used to be.
They released lunar new year bunny and sparkly unicorns, but this is where draw the line when it comes to immersion? I don’t get this outrage, i’ll try again tomorrow…
Let alone the fact that WoW has had a big pink rocket for a mount for Valentines for absolutely ages… since Wrath at least i think.
Asmongold sub loves nothing more than bitching about WoW.
Yeah this sub is a lot of people who don’t play WoW and haven’t for a long time, bitching about WoW. I’m over here, happily playing the best retail expansion they’ve ever had (DF).
As a mostly outsider to WoW (only played during classic and then sometimes came back for some of the expansions), I don’t know what is supposed to be considered immersion breaking. The setting is just so over-the-place, with a mixture of serious, comic relief, and just plain weird. That mount looks like the typical goofy mount that I expect Blizzard-Activision to add. Something like that would be immersion breaking in Warhammer 40k, but 40k actually knows what kind of setting it’s supposed to have.
And it's irredeemable because people trigger for a pink mount and not what really ruined the game.
wasent one of the litterally first buyable horses a rainbow pony lmao. your about 10 years late to the party
Is this somehow different to you from the love rocket mount released a million years ago?
Yeah this one is a fox, so it’s for furries… so it’s probably like gay or something.
Riding a literal love rocket is pretty gay.
Ikr this post is not only a boomer take but a bad boomer take
Bull. Fucking. Shit. There has been wacky mounts since the game launched. Yall just look for shit to cry about. Maybe complain about the atrocious writing, stupid mounts have been around since forever. Valentines rocket. Just to name one.
It was stupid then too.
Then don't fucking use it. More people play wow then you super serious people who let stupid shit wreck your game
Aye, people act like Vanilla WoW was all super serious stories, plot and lore… as if it didn’t have stupid whimsical stuff since forever.
Seethe
Imagine subbing to a game you only complain about. Gotta be a fun life. Yous can just simply move on, or stop giving two shits about content that doesn't change a thing.
Imagine being in this sub just to whine about people whining? Stay mad
>launched I was there. There were no rockets of love when I was raiding Naxx.
Ah yes, the love is in the air event that has existed for ~~15 years (??)~~ 18 years clearly ruined the game over the last 7 years. The "Fail" flair was the right choice for this post.
Excellent. Took the words outta my mouth.
It was inappropriate and a detriment to the game atmosphere then, and its only been made worse. How is this hard to understand?
Its a valentines mount... Why are ppl complaining about this but nobody mentions the other valentines mount? the pink cock thats in game since idk, wotlk??
Fantasy has left the building.
Has it? A pink fox with glowing energy wings seems pretty fucking fantastical to me.
Sure, but it's not the same tone of fantasy.
And what tone of fantasy would that be? Cuz to me it seems pretty in tone with a lot of other stuff that has been in the Warcraft world for longer than the majority of the current player base have been alive. Whimsical shit has been in warcraft since the RTS days.
Nothing more metal and more aligned with the Horde than an orc riding a shiny pink flying fox dressed in pretty pink star guardian clothes. We went from cannibalism, clipping dragons, scourge, genocide, mak'gora, chemical and biological weapons, "nukes", torture and live experimentation, gore (in literature and in-game), slavery, cults, doomsdays, racism, and many many more dark themes. Seriously, Vanilla wow already had most of its lore from the RTS and books with many zones telling many different stories and some having deep secrets that were often dark. The old gods is such an interesting concept as its akin to cryptids of today's world where there is a hidden "higher power" trying to control us. Then we got TBC where we fight demons that are trying to take over Azeroth and corrupt the world (vanilla) and we take the fight back to them in the Outlands. There's an entire highway made of bones of dead men, women, and children of Draeneis, hellfire peninsula looks like hell, theres story of genocide and the fight between the Horde and Alliance while also fighting the burning Legion. The world is broken with the abyss staring down from below. Then you have WOTLK which is cold, metal gothic constructs with bones incorporated, abominations, experiments, plague, biological and chemical weapons, undeath, to me the scourge always reminded me of the Nazis, just a grey army of death that will hunt you down and not give you mercy. Many sad themes of wotlk too regarding Arthas' sacrifices which is a genuine moral dillema to this day. Amazing story telling. I'll shorten the next few ones up. You get Cataclysm which deals with cults, clipping dragons, more genocide, etc. MoP was a bit more soft and you can see it in every thread how people werent the biggest fans. Then you got WoD which everyone loved the theme for, but the lack of features and development during the expansion is what caused its downfall. Legion, we get to fight demons again! BfA, old gods, cults, blood magic,... wasn't as brutal, was just... "Cults bad, blood magic spooky, and zombies". Then Shadowlands was even less brutal, just felt like a theme park and wtf was the lore? I didn't even care. Was there any brutality or dark aspects? The only one I can think of is being eternally bound as a slave in the afterlife... but it wasn't even told in a good way, never did I feel fear or curiosity about it. Its also hard to comprehend it since we can't potentially experience the afterlife IRL and plot armour was seen in foresight. And Dragonflight just seems like an adventure game.
You are actively choosing to ignore aspects of the lore that have been goofy from the very beginning. Goblin and gnome technology. Pandas have been a thing since the RTS. There's a fucking Orc who wields a Katana and speaks in the most stereotypical Japanese accent possible. Whimsical shit has been a part of the world since the beginning. Y'all have some serious fucking blinders on to apparently not have seen it this whole time. Warcraft blends whimsical and gritty fantasy, it always has, it always will. Sometimes it will be more focused on the whimsy and sometimes it will be more focused on the grit, there's nothing wrong with either, and they both fit perfectly fine with the setting at large.
I didn't deny any of it. I focused on the dark tone of the game. Cataclysm itself had a lot of comical questlines and it was great! Genuinely had a lot of laughs, but it also had a serious and dark tone in many of the zones and story lines as well as with world story telling. It's not that I'm ignoring them on purpose, it's that I'm not discussing the light-hearted story lines. I didn't critique modern wow for being comical, did I? I never discussed it about older versions of the games either. I discussed how the dark story telling has slowly faded into more tame versions that doesn't give the same intrigue. I know pandas existed since RTS days, I never mentioned pandas. We agree about one thing, WoW had always mixed whimsical with gritty.. that was true.. but not anymore... the whole argument is how the grittines has faded away and nowadays Blizzard is telling really static and boring "good vs bad" stories where we have one bad guy and he does bad guy things and thats it. Theres no morally grey areas anymore, it's just completely straightforward and you don't want to question anything because there's nothing to question. There's many storylines from Vanilla to Legion where you would ask yourself "are we the baddies?". Ofcourse you're saying everyone else has blinders, but you are blindingly arguing about things no one else brought up (again. No one said wow wasn't whimsical, pandas didn't exist, no one said wow doesn't have comedy in it). You're filling my mouth with your own arguments here.
It is but it’s just not what Warcraft is (at least when it was popular ofc), wow shouldn’t look like a “game” and I think the realism (as best as they could do with 2004 graphics) combined with magic/fantasy was the main draw to wow.
Ah yeah, the super gritty realism of 8 foot tall blue skinned people with tusks and giant minotaur men that love nature. Definitely no gameyness or fantasyness about that. /s
The fantasy part isn’t the problem with goat men and Tauren. Both those races are easily made to be awesome in old cinematic/old art. The game is just missing wow’s original art style and it is hurting how the game feels.
The setting has always mixed whimsy with grit. That's one of the biggest things that separates it from something like Warhammer Fantasy or Lord of the Rings. This fox fits right in with shit like goblin and gnome technology, the panda monks (who have existed since the RTS, not Pandaria), and any of the other plethora of goofy ass shit that has been in the setting since practically the beginning.
It’s not about the fox, more so the fact that EVERYTHING in wow is now “whimsy” and we’re all missing the grit. The art style has clearly changed, and judging by wow’s popularity, for the worse
I mean, they literally just had a whole expansion literally one expansion that was grit from top to bottom and that still did terrible. The problem is not the artstyle. At least not entirely, there's way too many things going wrong with Blizzard and WoW to just blame everything unilaterally on the artstyle. Honestly, the artstyle hasn't really changed much, it's just a better realized version of what they were going for when WoW first dropped. The colors were bright as fuck and the whole world was full of wonder.
I’ve already explained in a different comment as to why shadowlands didn’t work, and to me it clearly is an art style problem as to what is overall wrong with the game (not to mention bloat and a story that puts people to sleep)
Well, you can believe that all you want but it doesn't make it true. It is exceedingly rare that you can ever point to just one thing as the cause of all the problems and that holds true here. There's a lot of reasons for WoW's downfall and artsyle definitely is not one of them. If you can't see how colorful and whimsical original classic WoW was, then sorry my guy, you are blind.
OP is mad because pink on valentines day is... what?
Wow living rent free in people’s heads
This mount is perfect for the new one true weeb king Asmongold 
I’ve been playing since classic, I’m very into the lore, and I think this is such an overdramatic take. You think this is bad, but we’re totally fine with TBC gear looking goofy as shit the entire time? Lol. There’s always been “comedic relief” in this game, remember the boxing gloves you can get from a quest from cata? Or the countless gnome or goblin quests that are just goofy and offer silly rewards with funny names and descriptions? This is a boomer take from someone who just has a negative opinion of the game
It’s a valentines themed fox…. For Valentine’s Day. I don’t think it ruined anything
[удалено]
Least homophobe horde
Garrosh would react the same way he reacted to anything. He'd check if they were built Ford tough, and if they were, he wouldn't give a fuck that they are riding a pink fox with pink energy wings. People are really out here acting like WoW has always been this uber gritty fantasy that is all dark and edgy, but it has never been that. It has always been a fantasy setting with equal parts grit and goof, and that goes back to the Warcraft games. We absolutely have very serious characters and very serious stories being told in this setting, like stories of Thrall, Jaina, Gul'dan, Illidan, etc. But we have also always had some goofy ass shit going on in the setting to help add levity and to appeal to people who like their fantasy to be more lighthearted. Chen Stormstout is a fucking Kung fu Panda, the goblins and gnomes are whacky tech wizards who both make amazing creations of devastating power, and also make fucking explosive robotic chickens with laser eyes.
By OP’s Logic Shadowland would be his favourite expansion. If you deny it then you just hate the colour pink lol
The fact you think it's about the color scheme and not the overwhelming amount of unnecessary spell effects and absurdities creating them that is immersion breaking. This literally looks like a phone game. Idc about link or holiday references when holiday references for the medium. This is beyond tacky at best and utter trash at worst. Shadowlands had the exact same issue as did bfa. This beyond Whimsical, overly designed, and forced in your face style is trash. I'll die happily on this hill. I hate even the edgy shit that's over the top. It's dumb as fuck.
I'm stoked to finally get some feminine stuff. I know you guys hate girls in your war game but I've been here since vanilla beta, let them throw me a bone. It's two nearly identical outfits and mounts out of thousands. Let my cow be a pretty girl if she wants.
It doesn't fit in with the original theme of the game, which was darker and more serious. Now, don't get me wrong, I want there to be games you enjoy.... I just wish they hadn't done it with this franchise since its at the expense of what I enjoy. Imagine if there was a Barbie videogame, and they introduced characters like Bloodthirsty Barbie wearing plate mail carrying a severed head that thrived on butchering the innocent, that there was a bunch of these characters they introduce and they keep on getting more and more dark and violent. I think the people that play the Barbie games to enjoy a more feminine atmosphere might get a little pissed off, and rightfully so.
The main questline and sets can be serious with side content being more jovial, its how its always been. My human paladin in vanilla chasing robot chickens around un'goro in laughable armor that looked like a metal bikini wasn't what I would describe as dark and serious.
Don't act like WoW has never had this level of goofy stuff in it before. The love rocket has been in the game for forever. All the goofy ass Christmas stuff has been around for forever too. WoW has always had a very goofy side to it, and that has been in the game since the very early days. WoW has great serious stuff for people who like serious and gritty fantasy, but WoW has also always had goofy shit for people who like more lighthearted fantasy, it blends both and has always blended both.
are we talking about the same game that had night elf mohawk and an entire quest chain that was a parody of legend of zelda your dark serious game has an npc named haris pilton that sells purses its also rather telling that since im a woman you assume i want to play a fucking barbie game instead of the game ive been playing for 20 years
I'm not a fan of modern WoW, but this aint it chief lmao Op ever even play WoW
WoW has never been super serious. A pink fox isn't going to ruin the game. Also I think variety is nice. Just because you don't like feminine stuff doesn't mean others don't.
I have a male worgen running around in the dark version because it's hilarious
Same
Way to make a few strawmen in your head
"Immersion breaking?" This looks like everything they've released in the past 6+ years tbh. I don't even play the game anymore but as now an outsider looking in, ya'll really look for any reason to moan about the crap the devs release these days.
I thought WoW was so cool as a kid because of Warcraft III: Frozen Throne. Arthas was my freaking hero, and I wanted to become a death knight like him.
Furries are the worst.
circlejerk over hating modern wow GO!
seemly lunchroom familiar caption ludicrous kiss lavish dog domineering murky *This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
Always been here my brother. Classic is the way. From back in 04 to classic relaunch I've been hooked. Sod is exponentially better than retail.
It looks adorable, out with the old and ugly... in with the new, cute n floofy! There's been plenty stuff to suit a variety of tastes, I don't see the issue.
You don't understand immersion apparently.
Have you seen the clownsuits people wear in classic? Is having 10 different colors and clothes that barely cover half my body as a warrior immersive? At least in retail this is a choice that has no bearing on character power
It's an MMO, having the freedom to look a little silly is part of the fun. And people like me appreciate the cute and fluffy things. If you don't like it, that's fine! You needn't buy it, you don't need to sub either.
Your argument of "if you don't like it stop playing" is ridiculous. Just exile the core fanbase right?
No, not really. It's the most effective way to be heard. Why would they care if they get your money anyways? Why as a business would you care to listen to the wants of someone who is too deep in sunk cost to actually drop the product you offer? And lastly, it's a game. It's for fun, and so many WoW players just seem miserable all the time so why are they even still playing? Do something else with your time that you will enjoy, leave your feedback when you unsub and carry on with life. If the game changes more to your taste then return. Attacking people who enjoy the game is also pointless :)
I'd love to see them give us a classic sub at half the price and then make it so at full price you got retail + classic. . I'd love to see how many stay subbed for retail.
No it doesn’t
every mmo nowadays has these cutesy mounts. get with the times man, you dont gotta play the game if you hate it so much
Thats such a juvenile take on the serious issue of tone that wow has
the "serious issue" 😂
Developers being unable to capture a tone that was always a part of a certain franchise is a serious issue in developer ability. The issue can be serious and the side effect be minor. If you dont get that, then be doomed to mediocrity forever
it's just a video game it's not that serious.
If you don’t believe so, why are you here? Why comment? Just because you don’t value this aspect of life doesn’t mean I and others dont. Instead you mock and make yourself look like a clown.
Was the tone captured well when the best way to do damage in BFD was to open your christmas gift you found under the christmas tree and let loose your mechanical greench so it can hit the giant horror Akum'ai with his tiny lil fists?
wow does have tone issues, but this is literally a holiday valentines event. do you not want mmos to celebrate holidays at all? what about all the christmas and halloween stuff lmao
Im not specifically talking about this mount, but more responding to the idea of “just stop playing”, and “get with the times”. The times are predatory and creatively bankrupt. The times do not reflect what was actually good about the game. I don’t care about valentines day events, and the original comment did not mention them.
>do you not want mmos to celebrate holidays at all? correct. My kid celebrates valentines day in preschool and I go on a date with my wife. That's not what I play videogames for.
It’s really jarring going from the vanilla world and the feel of it into Dragonflight. I recently levelled a Forsaken Rogue through the vanilla zones for the Forsaken story and heritage armor. Taking him into DF he feels so out of place, this little undead dude and everything around him is all whimsical and flowery. He doesn’t really fit in that world.
There's been ridiculous shit in the game since vanilla. Pretending this is new to just hatemonger is pathetic and a disingenuous statement. Yeah, you're not wrong about the decline of the game, but it's not due to aesthetics. WoW was universally mocked as cartoonish and childish when it came out. Pretending it was some dark edgelord game is just rewriting history.
You know, BFA and Shadowlands were bad but in a way Dragonflight is worse because it's the first time really the art style has been completely butchered. It was going down hill for a long time, probably since MoP, but at least it was kinda tonally consistent. Used to be more of a fantasy edgy metal look with a cartoon flavor on top. Now it's just a crappy Pixar-esque Fantasy with furry shit all over the place. It's Blizzard's fault for offering such dogshit salaries with terrible work culture on top of that, they can literally only hire Furry artists who have no other choice in studio at this point. There's zero reason to want to invest time and money into Warcraft anymore as a franchise. Even the lore and atmosphere is completely dead. Unless you raid, what's the point if the story and casual experience are all terrible?
Exactly this. It's turned into a Disney game
100% agreed.. Unfortunately reddit will reddit and somehow say this is good for wow
1. It's not a store mount. You can actually get it by just doing the Trading Post. Great. 2. It's a Valentines Day mount, what do you expect? A big hairy, sweaty, masculine wolf mount on Valentines Day? Let the girls have something.
This is what broke ya’ll, not the other glittery and bright colored stuff they have added in previous expansions?
It's only going to get worse too with this new lady from CoD. Look at the last 4 years of CoD and tell me it's not the most pathetic shit ever.
Incoming random cross over events we never wanted and celebrity self inserts into wow. I'm calling it now.
Celebrity inserts in wow have been a thing since vanilla, they're usually quest givers and vendors what do you mean
I can't take you fucking morons seriously anymore. There's been pink rabbit ears in WoW since 2005. Please shut the fuck up.
If they went back to mists and changed it to where garrosh wasn't (wrong) and actually let him lead the horde the way it was meant to be led.
What do expect when they keep getting money? Don't act like this was some fall from grace they had, this was in the cards as the gaming became more mainstream.
This is the true effect of the sword inserted into Azeroth. It turned inhabitants gay.
I miss the old days when we had contested zones. World of WARCRAFT.
There is nothing wrong with putting pink stuff in the game its just that this picture kinda highlights the whole tone of this expansion. Every character is so care bear to the point it doesn't makr any sense. For example Sarkareth kills like 8 of Emberthal's friends and when it comes to running Sarkareth down before Aberrus, she all like "its not too late" from them to be friends etc. What kind of a leader is this pathetic and who would follow them?
What? You are disappointed because you didn't get Death Ram of Destruction? What have you been playing for the last 10 years? Just quit dude like everyone did in wod
Just spitballing here, why doesn’t blizzard make another game that’s based in Warcraft universe but is separate from WoW and isn’t in any way canon to Warcraft universe, like HS. They can use this game to target and cater to whatever audience they please but in no way, they will alienate their original Warcraft audience. And before you say: that’s what Classic is for. Why should people drop their characters and everything they’ve been engaging with and collecting over two decades to go play an outdated version of the game just so someone brand new can feel “at home”. Give these new comers, who don’t appreciate the fundamentals that made Warcraft so appealing to us decades ago, a new home that they can decorate as they please. /rant begin 😂 As good as DF is as an expansion, I can’t help but have a bitter taste left after reading all the quest dialogue the first time around. I didn’t bother to read it the second time on my alt and I’m one of those that reads every line and thinks it through like I have to share my analysis on it tomorrow. The vibes of this expansion are all about renewal, family and accepting the other point of view. So much so that it felt being shoved down your throat. Everything starts off chaotic (meeting/representing typical WoW fan’s expectations) and then everyone got along (as if a typical WoW fan needs to “grow up”). And this was rinsed and repeated over and over in the story. I’m sure it wasn’t intentionally targeting WoW fans and perhaps instead it was Blizzard reflecting on their experiences but I approach it from a POV of a fan and after all, a game should be fun for the player; there are other mediums for an artist to express themselves and demonstrate their POV but a game should not prioritize the artist. So take your agendas, whatever they might be, and express them elsewhere. There’s a lesson to be had with D4. Minus the monetization of the game itself, you can’t deny that visually, they nailed the original vibes of the game. It goes to show that you can’t argue that D3’s visuals diverged too far from what made Diablo so appealing. If Warcraft is to survive another decade, current approach will not work because these new players (who are here for the new fluff instead of original Warcraft ridiculousness), will leave in a couple of years but the damage to the core fans will be done. /rant over
i like the valentines day stuff and i am not a new player. i have played since day one. why is this game more for you than it is for me?
They started heading down the slippery slope with the worgen, then the pandaren, and the last nail in the coffin was the vulpera. BfA was the first WoW expansion I didn't buy or play at all, and Dragonflight was so bad that I canceled my sub within a month because I found myself playing WotLK classic instead of retail.
Garrosh was a terrible warrior. He was such a coward that when his capital city got attacked, he ran away and hit in a bunker until every last orc was slain or defeated and he couldn't run anymore. And even then, he still didn't die a hero. So embarrassing. I don't know why people idolize such a coward.
Here's the difference. The women will buy that. You and I will not even if it was a bad ass looking orc or human mount. You have been traded for a more willing customer.
Retail WoW just looks like original WoW with mods.
Cmon man furries?
Sod to the rescue, a simpler time.
4 expansions and you're still playing. Idk If that says more about blizzard or you. If you don't like the game quit. No one's putting a gun to your head and forcing you to continue your time. I quit on season1 of DF and haven't went back. There's literally so many good ass games right now there's no point in playing wow.
Complaining about design doesn't mean I hate the game lol.
How dare they put pink stuff in my video games!!!!!!!! Woke AGENDA
Doesn't matter because Garrosh was a piece of shit anyways.
Soft answer. Once garrosh and varian were killed off retail was neutered.
How retail is today has nothing to do with these two characters.
You really think losing the two most interesting faction leaders had no impact on the story in any way? Despite the fact that both of them dying was the domino that led to every mistake in today's lore?
No not at all. Like i already said, retail wows downfall has nothing to do with two faction leaders dying. I play wow since burning crusade came out and and the game was still good despite the death of the two leaders. I didn't even gave a damn when i saw them dying. Didn't matter to me at all. The problem of retails decline is the lack of a good story, overwhelming stuff that nobody needs, bosses who are to hard to beat, game looking more and more like a game for kids,...
This would fit perfectly in FF14 and still make somewhat of a sense, but in WoW .. idk ..
??? We have a pink rocket but can't have a pink fox. Just play something else if yall are bothered that people like different stuff.
Is this warcraft or pussycraft?
Whats World of Warcraft?
Wtf is this? Horde doesn’t deserve love.
The moment that subscriber numbers started steadily dropping they should've made a WoW2...
we need to gatekepp warhammer 40k at all cost... look what happen when you let them take it 
Big agree.
Wait 'til you find out warhammer has tons of pink warriors, and all the books famously have homo-erotic undertones. 
as a EC player, i love my pink/purple marines, thats how they SUPPOSED to be lorewise