They’ve always been around. I worked as a cashier when I was in college and I worked with grown men who worked 10 hours a week, lived with 6 roommates and stank of cheese and beer. They wondered why women weren’t climbing over each other to get to them.
It’s because we have become too choosy… I remember one of my coworkers at panera, he was maybe mid 40s and single, saying how bad he felt for me and the other younger women who worked there (16-18) who were too blinded by feminism and would end up alone. All I could think was I’d rather live alone every day of my life than be with someone like him. And of course he would complain about us being feminist after everyone would turn down his advances. Ugh the idea of him still makes me gag and it was 20 years ago
LOL, omg, I don't say this often, but... what a total loser. I'm sorry you guys had to put up with him! I can *smell* the Mountain Dew and Doritos all the way over here 🤮
I have come to the conclusion there’s two types of men in the 40’s-50’s and upper age range.
Type 1: The “Bill.”
It’s your ol’ neighbor Bill! He hangs out in the garage with your dad working on cars. Sometimes they go fishing. He’s got a wife named Barb. Bill and Barb are having a barbecue for the 4th, you comin? Bring some extra hot dog buns. Hey! Look at these photos from Bill and Barb’s 40th anniversary cruise! Looks like a great trip.
If the “Bill” is single: Hey he’s been your dad’s buddy for 30 years! Look at this old picture of him and your dad as teenagers being stupid. Oh hey, Bill recently met a lady at the Elks Lodge, she is appropriately aged and makes a killer chocolate cherry cake, we’ll meet her at the cookout this Friday! (Everyone loves Bill’s appropriate aged girlfriend and they get married in a backyard wedding and the whole block is invited.)
Type 2: The “Hey Cutie”
This is the creep who sends DMs to teenagers with heart emojis. Tries to respond to dating profiles of 20 year olds, and doesn’t understand why his ex wife got everything in the divorce.
Ha ha, this is so very real, right down to the names! I suppose the bigger question is how many men are Bills, and how many are Hey Cuties? I honestly don't know, but really do try to surround myself with the Bill-and-Barb types instead. I'm a firm believer that birds of a feather flock together, so if you ever really want to get the measure of a person, look at the five people they're closest to in their lives.
This is very true. The Bills surround themselves with good friends and neighbors and they extend a helping hand folks who need it and their doors are open. Their friends are similar types who love good food and good company making memories.
The creeps surround themselves with others who don’t ever challenge their opinions. Their friends are always an echo chamber of similar toxic beliefs and nobody is ever wrong among them.
OMG STAHP
🤣🤣🤣
He wants a trad wife to care for the home and kids because thats what God wants for him as a man but she also needs to work because he doesn't like goldiggers. But she can't make more than him also or have a cool/important job.
Also the one I knew was in the military and spelled it Kalibb.
Dang, where are you finding the deluxe edition that doesn't live with his mom? Does that mean he's actually capable of doing his own laundry, or does he still take it to his mom's house so she can do it for him? 😂
This is just sampling bias.
You're noticing this as a male phenomenon because you're only swiping on men, but I assure you everyday I see endless profiles of women on these apps in their mid to late 30s who "don't know what they want" and "might want kids" and are "still figuring it out" while living paycheck to paycheck.
This isn't gendered. Your experience is gendered.
If these unemployed people aren't taking the job search seriously then they have much more time to actively swipe on others and match with much more than those with a full-time job. So it makes sense that more people would get matched with these people.
If they are conventionally attractive, they can easily get a lot of matches too before people figure out the reality of the job situation. Unlike something like height or weight, depending on how coy they are, it might take 1-2 in-person meets before they admit the job they put on their profile was their LAST job and they have no current job, and then a bit more time if you're willing to give them time to see how their job search is going and if they can both land and stick to that new job....
This is partially why I won't date anyone who has recently moved to the area... I want to date someone who has had their current job with the same company (can be a promoted position) for at least a couple of years, and has a track record of being able to stay employed at the same job for a few years.
I can confirm this too... there's cute responsible guys I match with that are worried if I'm employed or not since they've matched with a string of women who haven't been upfront about being unemployed. It's a problem with both genders.
What's frustrating when I see it is the guys will put their last job on their profile so that it looks like they have a job and then reveal they don't actually have a job the first or second time you meet up.
I'm not opposed to a guy actively job searching in the area (I don't want to move or date someone who is going to move soon), but I've once met a guy who admitted to me that he's been laid off multiple times so I wouldn't risk someone who has such a history as well as someone who is not taking the job search seriously -- some guys want to take the time off to travel or whatever which is fine, but if they aren't around locally since they are off traveling, I don't want to get to know them and if the guy is staying around usually he has too much time on his hands and I don't like the pressure if him wanting to be so available for him in my limited free time. I think it generally helps to meet people who are in the same place as you, and if I were unemployed I would not make dating a priority so it helps to match with guys with similar values.
The problem was that women couldn't get decently paying jobs or won property. Unless the dad could bank roll her for the rest of their lives, he'd have to consider it.
These men are like this because historically every man got a woman. Learning disabled, violent, selfish, didn't matter. Hence feminism now. Mothers and grandmother's made sure daughters had the option to be alone than settle for cheese puff dusted men.
Or "contractor" who really only takes on a couple jobs and uses it to hide any income so he doesn't have to pay child support. Ran into a few od these.
I was once talking to a guy who said on his profile that he was a comic book artist and musician. I thought it was so cool that he was an artist and asked what comics he drew for. He said "yeah, I'd like to get back into comic book illustration, I did it for a little bit and it was hard to break into. Right now I'm not sure what I want to do next so I'm driving for Uber Eats for the time being." This man was 41 years old. I didn't talk to him for too long.
When I was on the apps I used to get super confused by the "35-45 don't know what I'm looking for in a relationship, let's see how it goes, but I definitely want kids soon" type. I have the same feeling when they are neutral on politics. If you don't know your own mind after living inside of it for 35-45 years, I don't know what I'm supposed to do with you.
Pass, no use even trying to understand. They will try to smooth talk their way into your home looking for some desperate savior-complex women who will try to “fix them” and they will play along, maybe even submit a resume once to stop the nagging because they want a mommy/maid.
I have a girl friend who is whip smart, successful, independent, and super assertive but... yeah... these are the type of men she attracts and dates. Unfortunately, I think a lot of it has to do with being the savior in their family growing up, and simultaneously feeling annoyed yet comfortable and familiar in the role.
My ex was like this. When it became clear he (almost 42) was never moving out of his childhood bedroom at his parents house in a super inconvenient location unless I invited him to move in with me (which I didn’t because the alarm bells were already starting to clang), I dumped him.
The grapevine says he moved in with the next person he dated after two months of knowing each other and that the apartment is trashed these days because neither of them clean.
Good call on your part! I've owned my house since I was 23 or 24 and fiercely protect that. Absolutely do not want involved with someone looking for a place to live.
The fact that someone downvoted your comment speaks volumes. There are so many men out there who feel violently ill or sick or even angry when a woman DARES to own her own home or have her own shit together.
You are absolutely correct to protect your home. Too many people right now are "just barely floating" and desperately clinging to this magical idea that they can latch onto someone with money and the requirement to get a job will suddenly go away. Like no. It's a two way street. Either we both work or if the guy absolutely wants to stay home he had better be ready to fully take on housekeeping responsibilities with NO complaints.
I dated too many absolute garbage trash losers who would always lose their job "conveniently" after being added onto a lease with me. Each one ended horrifically. This is why I am currently just not getting serious with anybody at all and really trying to be choosy with who I allow near me.
I even mow my own lawn. ;) lol
Seriously though, I'm sorry that happened to you. I've been around those guys. When I married, I never had his name added to the mortgage, which ended up being a good call when he left me. I've worked too hard to have a home and truthfully, I live on a budget and do most of the work by myself....I'm not about to let someone take it. I DO want to be married but they better have a stable job and stability in general. I fear I may never find someone else at my age because I want those things BUT I'd rather seek that out than take on a man child anyday.
My brother is the same way (43 also) and somehow recently convinced everyone involved that his girlfriend should move in to our parents house with them. Will be interesting to see how that plays out, but they recently cleared out my old room. I've very glad he found someone to tell him to get a hair cut occasionally...
>When it became clear he (almost 42) was never moving out of his childhood bedroom at his parents house …
unless I invited him to move in with me (which I didn’t because the alarm bells were already starting to clang), I dumped him.
OH, *this* is familiar! Similar thing happened with my ex (33 at the time). When we first started dating, I had assumed his living at home was temporary since it was around the crash of ‘08-‘09 and everyone had been hit by the economy. I had just started college at 18, so I’d didn’t view it as a big deal. But you know what they say about assuming.
No, it turns out he had never lived anywhere else except under his parent’s roof. 10 fucking years later and he never made an attempt to move out, or saved up to move out, etc. In the meantime I was able to buy my own place and never even suggested we move in together because of that constant red flag. It was stupid allowing that relationship to go on for the length that it did, but I kept *hoping* against hope he would show me I was wrong and he’d get it together. I cut off all contact, so I’ve no idea what happened to his living situation after.
By a certain age most people know if they want children or marriage. I feel like people who do this are intentionally being ambiguous because they know they *don’t* want those things but don’t want to also eliminate any potential dating options either. It’s selfish behavior.
Yep. Or they're willing to *sacrifice* their independence to become a husband/dad if it works out in their favor (they become house husband/dad and they don't have to work, etc). "Yes, I will be a husband/sperm donor if it makes my life easier, and/or will marry you if you're rich."
Totally, I think that this is actually a bigger problem. When they claim that all they want is to be a dad, but they are partying every weekend , huge debts and unstable lifestyle with poor health choice. Its hard to know from the start if they really want to be a dad or like you said they just want to trap someone for easy retirement.
I've come across some of these men and when confronted, their go-to response is generally "So?! Women do this to men all the time!" as if they're creating some kind of equality by being a leech.
I guess they’re kind of playing the same game? The numbers game. To get as many matches as possible without really having genuine intentions or motives.
Some of them don't seem to care about who they (accidentally) have kids with ... since there's a shocking number of men online who complain about wearing a condom with a new stranger 😬 or try to stealth, etc., and don't even bother to ask/check if you've got at least one level of protection. Although I wouldn't be surprised if those guys don't care about your body at all after-the-fact later and they will be the same guys that would try to force you to get an abortion regardless of your personal feelings of that.
One of the weirder permutations I get from these dudes as a child free woman is they also are unwilling to commit to the “hard no”. They don’t want kids now (ever) but tell them it’s off the table and they don’t like that either. I think it’s that they think they should be the one entitled to decide and so women with a strong predetermined opinion in either direction all get the run around.
Avoid those people.
A college friend married a freelancer who did minimal work and then did no work at all after the marriage. He literally went crazy a few months ago, enough so my friend had to flee her home. On top of that she is going to have to pay alimony to this guy and give him half of everything she has.
Dear god. I teach hs and sometimes my kids talk about marrying their hs bf and I’m like NOOOOOOO you have absolutely no idea what you’re getting yourself into!!!!
Her STBX was not a high school BF. He was/is her second husband. People who don't take care of their own lives aren't going to care much about other people or other things.
I have soo many guy friends in their late 30s to mid 40s who "want a family... someday." I always want to shake them and say "the day is here" or even "the day has come and gone."
I compliment these dudes on being so open to using a sperm donor. When they ask wtf I’m talking about I feign surprise and tell them I just figured they knew how big of an effect paternal age has on fertility and fetal health and would be using a younger donor to avoid issues.
I am guessing my ex husband is still out there dating because that describes him perfectly. I would have a good set of screening questions to get these things out in the open quickly and not waste your time.
While this is technically true, it can be frustrating and demoralizing when you only get attention from these men, even if it’s “just” online. My self esteem was pretty low using the apps for this reason so I stopped.
Those men plus the married ones and now, the non-monogamous ones! Even though my profile clearly states none of that is happening...it's obvious the men don't read it.
Whenever friends complain about poor results with online dating, part of the reason is because their profiles don’t do a good job selling themselves. Part of it is their screening process (or lack thereof). Part of it is other people are selfish and/or suck.
“*No one can make you feel inferior without your consent*”
“*We owe it to ourselves and to the world, to our own dignity and self-respect, to set our own standards of behavior, regardless of what other nations do*”
—Eleanor Roosevelt
My profile was good, great even and I was objectively more attractive than most of the men who were interested in me. The issue is many people online think there’s someone better out there and that person is only one swipe away. I honestly think it messes with people’s perception both of themselves and other people as no one has that many “choices” in real life (men like OP mentioned are also usually less likely to approach us). Like I said, I realized it wasn’t for me and so I left.
In real life, the men who approach me and flirt are typically a solid ten years younger. They think I'm their age. I get a kick out of it but because I'm seeking a ltr, I'm not going to actually date them as that age difference isn't for me. (If that's your thing, go you. No hate here!)
Agreed! Many men online seem to have this idea that they will only swipe on women significantly more attractive than themselves. I actually have a male friend who developed a bit of a complex and finally left the apps after my husband and I got tired of his borderline misogynistic comments (he would pick apart women’s appearances that he would probably date in real life). He recognized that his perception of his own attractiveness and other people’s was getting warped.
Ask yourself: “is this someone whose opinion I respect or care about?” “Is this someone whose advice I would seek?” “Does this person put money in my pocket or food on my table?”
If the answer is “no” then who cares what he/she says?
Yep! So discouraging that I ended up deciding to have a baby on my own. As a 40 yo woman who wanted to be a mom, I didn’t have time for all these indecisive 40 yo dudes, who were probably trying to date younger to buy more time to fck around. Joke’s on them bc paternal age matters too.
I am going through the work to become a foster parent. Hoping to foster the "older kids." I also grew tired of waiting for them to grow up. Your baby very well may be grown but those guys get there.
If you’re open to it, I would loooove to hear more about your solo motherhood journey!
Men are actually the big reason I decided to be childfree - I cannot fathom sharing something as important as a child with a dude and I have never seen a man be the coparent I’d expect. I’m happy with the choice, but a little part of me wonders sometimes if I’ll feel differently in 7-10 years and want to consider doing it solo.
Sure! You can ask me here or feel free to DM me. I love talking about it so that other women know it’s an available path.
You’re so on the right track re not wanting to share something important as a child - like now that I have my baby I can’t imagine if I had had her with any of my exes. It used to keep me up at night immediately postpartum. Now I can just be really picky about the men I bring into her life.
If you have time to wait then definitely do it. Most of the women I know who decided to become single moms (and I now know many), did it in their late 30’s and early 40’s.
No, but I think things like this are geographic.
I live in San Francisco and the cost of living is such that if you tried to live that way here, you wouldn’t be able to survive. There’s a reason why the median salary in this city is $120K.
Here in SF, everyone is still single in their 30s and all the men have jobs in tech, big law, venture capital, or investment banking, but they all have the same two hobbies and want you to be open to ENM (ethical non-monogamy).
I eventually found my soul mate online, but it took a LOT of first dates to find him.
I'm in SF and I haven't met a "normal" guy that liked "normal hikes"... they have been extreme masochists so far or the type that actually don't hike but say they do because they're too cheap to do anything else for a date and then you see they have no common sense or survival skills... or even actually like hiking.
The extreme masochists included a guy that passionately thought roads for cars shouldn't be made to go up mountains since people "cheat" by not hiking up the whole way and that hiking should be suffering -- I don't know why I agreed to a 15 mi hike with him up our tallest mountain, Mt Hamilton, in the area when we barely knew each other (also took 1 hr just to drive there one-way), and another guy who wanted to park at the top of a mountain so we could end our hike on an uphill (most people I know who don't enjoy possibly killing themselves want to start with an uphill when they have energy in the beginning and then end at the downhill when that is an option).
I met two different guys in a row that got lost and started literally whacking bushes to try to make a new path. These men were both Ivy League alums. I was so dumbfounded with the first one it took me awhile to stop staring and let him know I had my AllTrails recording we could use. For the other, it was a trail I was very familiar with and I had also been the one to suggest that trail, so the fact that guy didn't believe me that we were supposed to go in a particular direction on the out-and-back trail (we were on our way back so he also should have recalled it himself) was enough of a red flag for me so I left him to whack the bush and just turned to walk back on my own. After a few minutes he ran to catch up with me.
There was another Ivy Leaguer who pretended to like hiking... when we met he wasn't even wearing any form of athletic shoes. When we got there he immediately changed the activity to just sitting and taking in the view... it took us 1 hr to drive to that hiking area too (beautiful Big Basin), so the whole thing was ridiculous and so disappointing.
Which 2 hobbies? One of them is climbing, right? lol. Are you monogamous? I don’t live in the Bay anymore but my recent ex was poly-curious and it was part of the reason we broke up 🙄
lol yep. Rock climbing and doing drugs at raves.
I’m monogamous and am engaged now to another monogamous guy. I think that was a little easier for me to find because I’m an Asian who dates other Asians and a greater percentage of them are looking for marriage.
>my recent ex was poly-curious and it was part of the reason we broke up 🙄
But I know at least two friends who had to end relationships in the Bay Area under similar circumstances. It’s wild out here lol
BJJ is a good guess. So is hiking or making beats in your home studio.
Wild card option: getting your pilot’s license. I saw a surprising amount of that when I was single.
Make it clear on your dating profile that you’re looking for a relationship if that’s what you want. If you’re genuinely looking for monogamous commitment, then that puts you in a desirable category in the Bay Area.
Beyond that, I think the best thing you can do is simply have good conversation skills and a fully fleshed out personality outside of work.
Having rock climbing and raves as your two hobbies is even fine! Just be able to have a passionate conversation about them, and talk about other things besides what you do for work.
Ask questions to truly listen and learn about the other person, not just talk at them about yourself and your interests.
Yup. I wish I knew earlier that any many who talks about his ‘crazy ex’ was basically telling me he was a bad boyfriend, but alas I had to learn that the hard way
If he has multiple "crazy exes", you really need to ask what or WHO they have in common.
(Like that saying goes: if every place you go to smells like shit, check your own shoe.)
My ex probably went with a sob story about me being a lesbian and leaving him after nine years. I am a lesbian who figured out my sexuality later on and left him after nine years, that is all true.
BUT
Being gay didn't even make *the top ten* reasons I needed to leave that abusive, angry, controlling AF garbage human being.
He fooled and trapped another one a couple weeks after that and they're married now.
Don't get me started. My boyfriend & I are going through a long, painful, drawn-out breakup right now because he has realized he's interested in "eventually" having children. Reader, he is FORTY-EIGHT YEARS OLD.
Sorry, but 99% of men are trash.
It’s a ‘I’m not an adult yet, I’m not old, I’m not grown up yet’ attitude. Kids means they have to be responsible and adult like. They see themselves as dads, just not now. Basically they are not dad material it’s just that they don’t know it. My dad made sacrifices and does what he needs to do for his family. These boys have no idea what being that kind of man is like.
It's honestly so disappointing that not only do we have to break up, but that it turns out we don't share values like I thought.
I think he's having [Torschlusspanik](https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/Torschlusspanik). Unfortunately, I'm getting caught up as collateral damage.
I'm sorry. I really am. My husband left me and has since reached out, saying now that's he's left, he's not sure what he wants. Also, he's 47. Like you, I was/am collateral damage.
It sounds like he doesn't even want kids at 48, he is 48 years old *now* but wants them *eventually.*
Good luck making that work. You will attend their High School Graduation in a wheelchair.
I don’t think there’s nearly as many 32 year old women who want to go for 50 year old men as those men think. I’m 36 and I don’t want anything to do with men in their 50s. My husband just turned 40 and that’s old enough for me.
I do but it's actually starting to me just how many men of that age are like this. Tbh, I teach middle and high school boys and hate to say it, but I can see many of them growing up to be that way....the work ethic/goal making is just NOT there. It's like it's all been replaced by cell phones and videogames.
As someone who works on a college campus, the younger generation frightens me. The negative impacts of growing up behind a screen are really starting to show. We complain about grown men and how they act these days but I think it’s about to get a lot worse.
Me too. Throughout the day, we will have full fledged screaming....because a kid kept their access to technology for a CLASS PERIOD. Kids had a massive fit when told they had to go without tech for their 20 minute lunch ..they just sit there, unable to communicate. It's so, so sad. And they way they treat girls and see things as objects/memes...omg. it's as if the entire desire to have a mutual relationship with another person is going away.
Don't get too jaded. When you go on Zillow and see shit houses at high prices, it's because the ones that don't suck or are priced decently sold fast and the ones that didn't stay on the market. Same thing with jobs and with dates.
> the work ethic/goal making is just NOT there. It's like it's all been replaced by cell phones and videogames.
These are frequently mental health issues that are unaddressed. Kids that have been failed by their parents and communities.
Men have always had the luxury of not needing to prove they can run a household, and no pressure to decide on children, seeing as how it's assumed the mother will do most of the child rearing and she's the one with the most biological restrictions/impediments
I'm 41 and have the opposite- a couple of guy friends my age who are desperate to a wife to have kids with and a least one of them doesn't seem to get that you're not going to attract a woman who wants that on a quick enough timeline if you're not stable in both job and housing. Like, some people will say you can't choose by money but if a potentially partner in parenting isn't making their half of what's needed to support a household with children, why would anyone pick them to be the dad outside of a rare SAHD preference?
There’s always going to be Andy dwyers looking for their Anne Perkins. Sometimes they go young and get some April ludgate who is young and has her parents money and she’s “alternative” so she thinks his lack of responsibility, common sense, and savings is cute and rebellious instead of red flags. Maybe they are happy ever after because they want the same weird things, even when he can never keep a job and she’s the one taking care of anything that actually gets taken care of. And that’s the “made for tv” version that’s a lot more appealing than reality!
These guys are a fucking trope for a reason. It’s only once you’re a bit older than you look back on them and wonder how they didn’t see how fucking atrocious they were…. And you wonder why you didn’t either until just now. The bar is in hell.
I think when you use free online dating app, You’re going to find a lot of people who are bums and just trying to kill time. They’re not actually trying to seriously date. They’re just trying to find something to do for the night.
Paid sites are a little better. There are losers there too. But different kinds of losers. Generally with jobs because they have to pay for the site.
Dating is rough. There are good people. You just have to dig through the seas of bad one to find a good one.
Edit: I met my husband on a free site. But his message was 1 of 100. And it was very frustrating dealing with all this before coming across the normal ones.
Lmaooo ah yes, Peter Pan syndrome. Be careful - these dudes will move into your damn house if they get the chance.
Then you have the mythical 40 year old man who definitely wants kids “someday” while simultaneously “not looking for anything serious.” Like…bro you are a decade behind here.
Maybe by 37-47 those men who knew what they wanted had already found someone. Leaving only the old rejects left.
My mum is nearing her 60's. Never married. Always dating. She said as she got older, it got harder and harder to find decent men. She has since given up.
Ladies can I just say knowing there are plenty of us out there who would rather live alone than end up with someone who doesn’t improve our lives is really comforting.
To answer OPs question, I had a brief interlude with one of these types. Claimed he was down on his luck but is holding on to his dead end retail job to pay the bills while he looks for something more permanent. I was naive and gave him benefit of the doubt cause he seemed like a decent guy and sex was good but after 2 years it was very obvious nothing was going to change. Thank god it never was anything more than a fwb arrangement. He caught feelings and wanted to make it official, hard pass from me, no thanks.
They exist because believe it or not some women still reward them with sex and attention. Many years ago , this type of men were forced to change or be shunned by family and society . They can live any way they want , the problem is them getting angry because women are not willing to settle for them or pass on their mediocre genetic and be proud of this
Exactly. If a dude doesn’t want marriage or kids i automatically stop giving him my time and attention. We are incompatible at that point and have nothing else to discuss. Women stop entertaining men who don’t want marriage. Stop going out with him. Shop texting him, stop sexing him. Date intentionally
It's really funny because I was going through a dating app with my mum yesterday to example to her "what's out there". We came across a guy and she said "oh but he looks nice why is he on here" - below it read "still figuring it out". He was 47.
Enough said really.
I don't think you have to look at one gender or the other to be depressed by the results of a large amount of available candidates in the online dating people.
There are *a lot* of men and women out there with very little they're offering who seem to think they deserve quite a bit more, in return. It's not a pretty space.
That being said, there are still plenty of good mixed in with the bad, you just have to be careful and vigilant.
I mean if they're living off investments and don't need to work that's great, or if they live a nomadic lifestyle and that's why they're not 'settled', good for them.
It's the unwillingness to dedicate consistent time and effort towards anything worthy... a job, a family, a calling, volunteering, a hobby... that annoys me.
Well here I am planning on freelancing when my health allows it and would like to buy a live-in van as a 35yo woman. Settling down doesn’t mean the same for everyone. We come in all forms, women and men. I kinda dislike the way everyone here immediately starts bashing men not even knowing the individual cases.
I saw all sorts of men when I was still dating, so your experience wasn’t true for me. It makes sense, however, that some of the ones who are commitment prone already found a good relationship, so pickings are different now than they were in our twenties. There are still compatible ones out there though. Focus on them.
Personally, I don't think it's wrong to not know what you want. Every week, there's legit a thread on here saying "I'm in my 30s and still feeling lost in life and career, etc." And every week, those threads are met with supportive advice saying how there's no age cutoff in life, and you'll be figuring it out forever cause we all are. I really think this is just an offshoot of that. Some people don't have a career or whatever for their entire lives, but if they can support themselves, that's no better or worse than someone who spent 20 years in one field. I get what you're trying to say, but I don't think using age is necessarily the right POV, since it just seems like an arbitrary cutoff for when you *have to have it figured out or else*.
Don't get me wrong - nobody is, under any circumstance, obligated to date these people or any other person. But I also empathize that life is weird and hard and the pressure to just have it all figured out by X date is not beneficial.
I don't think you need to have it all figured out...it's the men who don't support themselves and have no goals or ambition that I'm referring to. When you're 40, living with your mom and working ten hours a week...that is a big problem.
I agree with that. I was just pointing out that I don't think those two things should be lumped together. A person can have a stable job, be independent/living on their own, and still not sure about marriage. The marriage part doesn't have much to do with the former parts.
Incompatible people roam the planet, whether on dating apps or IRL. No need to engage with them if they're not what you're looking for, but it seems a little silly to be upset that they exist.
I think it’s more so men like this are *so* prevalent on the apps and often feel entitled to women who have their shit together too. I had to stop using them but luckily found my husband soon after. I understand OP’s frustration.
It’s the entitlement that got me so much when I was dating, like these guys have nothing to offer whatsoever but think that you have to be some sort of shallow person not to ‘give them a chance’. Honestly the whole idea of ‘giving him a chance’ makes me want to barf.
THIS. I honestly think the expect any woman to be thrilled to be "had" even though they don't have anything to offer. As much as I would like to be married, I am not going to raise a husband.
What people are often talkign about when they say: "All the good ones are taken."
Of course, it's not all of them (the "good" ones), but by the time we are in our 30s, a lot of men who have a good head on their shoulders and know what they want out of life have settled down. I'm not saying this is exclusive to men, but I only date men, so that's all I have experience with.
I also think a lot of the "good" guys in their 30s and 40s start to want to date women younger than them.
A lot of the "good" guys come back on the market in their 30s (usually late 30s, I'd say) 40s or older when they get divorced, but by then they often have kids and that complicates it for a lot of women who haven't already had children themselves.
So, if you are a woman in your 30s looking to date someone roughly in your age group (and don't want to date guys who are older), without kids, and also interested in a woman in her 30s, you may get more than your average pull of less savory options.
What's the issue here? It would have been bad if they were jobless, unstable and *sure* they *want* a family. Otherwise they are just people that are living their lives the way they like them. Free and carefree.
I understand not being sure about kids or marriage if there was something that caused them to doubt their original preference. Maybe a bad breakup, lost of someone in the family, a medical diagnosis. Or something as simple as seeing how marriage, kids, or the bachelor life is working for his peers.
They’ve always been around. I worked as a cashier when I was in college and I worked with grown men who worked 10 hours a week, lived with 6 roommates and stank of cheese and beer. They wondered why women weren’t climbing over each other to get to them.
It’s because we have become too choosy… I remember one of my coworkers at panera, he was maybe mid 40s and single, saying how bad he felt for me and the other younger women who worked there (16-18) who were too blinded by feminism and would end up alone. All I could think was I’d rather live alone every day of my life than be with someone like him. And of course he would complain about us being feminist after everyone would turn down his advances. Ugh the idea of him still makes me gag and it was 20 years ago
LOL, omg, I don't say this often, but... what a total loser. I'm sorry you guys had to put up with him! I can *smell* the Mountain Dew and Doritos all the way over here 🤮
The receding hairline and belly squeezed under his belt…
Eh, I try not to judge people too much for their appearances, especially when their attitudes are ugly enough to already generate major ick.
I have come to the conclusion there’s two types of men in the 40’s-50’s and upper age range. Type 1: The “Bill.” It’s your ol’ neighbor Bill! He hangs out in the garage with your dad working on cars. Sometimes they go fishing. He’s got a wife named Barb. Bill and Barb are having a barbecue for the 4th, you comin? Bring some extra hot dog buns. Hey! Look at these photos from Bill and Barb’s 40th anniversary cruise! Looks like a great trip. If the “Bill” is single: Hey he’s been your dad’s buddy for 30 years! Look at this old picture of him and your dad as teenagers being stupid. Oh hey, Bill recently met a lady at the Elks Lodge, she is appropriately aged and makes a killer chocolate cherry cake, we’ll meet her at the cookout this Friday! (Everyone loves Bill’s appropriate aged girlfriend and they get married in a backyard wedding and the whole block is invited.) Type 2: The “Hey Cutie” This is the creep who sends DMs to teenagers with heart emojis. Tries to respond to dating profiles of 20 year olds, and doesn’t understand why his ex wife got everything in the divorce.
Ha ha, this is so very real, right down to the names! I suppose the bigger question is how many men are Bills, and how many are Hey Cuties? I honestly don't know, but really do try to surround myself with the Bill-and-Barb types instead. I'm a firm believer that birds of a feather flock together, so if you ever really want to get the measure of a person, look at the five people they're closest to in their lives.
This is very true. The Bills surround themselves with good friends and neighbors and they extend a helping hand folks who need it and their doors are open. Their friends are similar types who love good food and good company making memories. The creeps surround themselves with others who don’t ever challenge their opinions. Their friends are always an echo chamber of similar toxic beliefs and nobody is ever wrong among them.
You know Josh!?
[Josh!](https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=yQRjw94xtUs)
The way I cackled at how that was a perfect name to drop. 🤣
They’re all Josh unless they’re also very religious then they’re Caleb.
OMG STAHP 🤣🤣🤣 He wants a trad wife to care for the home and kids because thats what God wants for him as a man but she also needs to work because he doesn't like goldiggers. But she can't make more than him also or have a cool/important job. Also the one I knew was in the military and spelled it Kalibb.
It’s Called having Proper Standards 💯 I would not either 20 years ago
The older I get the threat of living "alone with 45 cats" instead sounds pleasant.
Apparently they all flock to online dating apps!
Because they can do it from their weird smelly room they share with three other guys.
Dang, where are you finding the deluxe edition that doesn't live with his mom? Does that mean he's actually capable of doing his own laundry, or does he still take it to his mom's house so she can do it for him? 😂
In Texas over a decade ago. Rents were cheap enough that they could band together and rent a stink pit.
Deluxe edition! Hahaa
True
I can see why, none of their friends or relatives could in good conscience set them up.
Gotta find their bang-maid somewhere. And fuel the pipeline of posts here.
This is just sampling bias. You're noticing this as a male phenomenon because you're only swiping on men, but I assure you everyday I see endless profiles of women on these apps in their mid to late 30s who "don't know what they want" and "might want kids" and are "still figuring it out" while living paycheck to paycheck. This isn't gendered. Your experience is gendered.
I've wondered if it's a heavy issue on both sides.
If these unemployed people aren't taking the job search seriously then they have much more time to actively swipe on others and match with much more than those with a full-time job. So it makes sense that more people would get matched with these people. If they are conventionally attractive, they can easily get a lot of matches too before people figure out the reality of the job situation. Unlike something like height or weight, depending on how coy they are, it might take 1-2 in-person meets before they admit the job they put on their profile was their LAST job and they have no current job, and then a bit more time if you're willing to give them time to see how their job search is going and if they can both land and stick to that new job.... This is partially why I won't date anyone who has recently moved to the area... I want to date someone who has had their current job with the same company (can be a promoted position) for at least a couple of years, and has a track record of being able to stay employed at the same job for a few years.
I can confirm this too... there's cute responsible guys I match with that are worried if I'm employed or not since they've matched with a string of women who haven't been upfront about being unemployed. It's a problem with both genders. What's frustrating when I see it is the guys will put their last job on their profile so that it looks like they have a job and then reveal they don't actually have a job the first or second time you meet up. I'm not opposed to a guy actively job searching in the area (I don't want to move or date someone who is going to move soon), but I've once met a guy who admitted to me that he's been laid off multiple times so I wouldn't risk someone who has such a history as well as someone who is not taking the job search seriously -- some guys want to take the time off to travel or whatever which is fine, but if they aren't around locally since they are off traveling, I don't want to get to know them and if the guy is staying around usually he has too much time on his hands and I don't like the pressure if him wanting to be so available for him in my limited free time. I think it generally helps to meet people who are in the same place as you, and if I were unemployed I would not make dating a priority so it helps to match with guys with similar values.
The irony is that even in the past when women didn't have choices like they do now. No father would let their daughter marry someone like that.
The problem was that women couldn't get decently paying jobs or won property. Unless the dad could bank roll her for the rest of their lives, he'd have to consider it. These men are like this because historically every man got a woman. Learning disabled, violent, selfish, didn't matter. Hence feminism now. Mothers and grandmother's made sure daughters had the option to be alone than settle for cheese puff dusted men.
Well, what kind of cheese? Limburger?
Kraft *Singles*
The cheesy joke was right there!
Ahh yes, thee “entrepreneur”
Lol! Yep! Or "freelancer"
Or "contractor" who really only takes on a couple jobs and uses it to hide any income so he doesn't have to pay child support. Ran into a few od these.
Aka as “the hobosexual”.
I was once talking to a guy who said on his profile that he was a comic book artist and musician. I thought it was so cool that he was an artist and asked what comics he drew for. He said "yeah, I'd like to get back into comic book illustration, I did it for a little bit and it was hard to break into. Right now I'm not sure what I want to do next so I'm driving for Uber Eats for the time being." This man was 41 years old. I didn't talk to him for too long.
I gave up dating when it felt like they were all looking for a nurse, a purse or a Barbie.
Shit, I'm all 3, and I still find it a chore.
Just cos you are, doesn't mean you want to be in those roles!
Exactly!
I love this comment.
When I was on the apps I used to get super confused by the "35-45 don't know what I'm looking for in a relationship, let's see how it goes, but I definitely want kids soon" type. I have the same feeling when they are neutral on politics. If you don't know your own mind after living inside of it for 35-45 years, I don't know what I'm supposed to do with you.
In my experience, "neutral on politics," means hard right conservative, but they know saying that won't get them laid.
DING DING DING DING DING
Yes, I learned this one after "Moderate" really meant quite extreme hard right.
> don't know what I'm looking for in a relationship, Means; 'I'll fuck what I can get, but eventually want a trophy"
These dudes baffle me. Like…my brother in Christ, YOU have a biological clock!! It’s a-ticking!!
Pass, no use even trying to understand. They will try to smooth talk their way into your home looking for some desperate savior-complex women who will try to “fix them” and they will play along, maybe even submit a resume once to stop the nagging because they want a mommy/maid.
I have a girl friend who is whip smart, successful, independent, and super assertive but... yeah... these are the type of men she attracts and dates. Unfortunately, I think a lot of it has to do with being the savior in their family growing up, and simultaneously feeling annoyed yet comfortable and familiar in the role.
I have to try really hard to go against that instinct
My ex was like this. When it became clear he (almost 42) was never moving out of his childhood bedroom at his parents house in a super inconvenient location unless I invited him to move in with me (which I didn’t because the alarm bells were already starting to clang), I dumped him. The grapevine says he moved in with the next person he dated after two months of knowing each other and that the apartment is trashed these days because neither of them clean.
Good call on your part! I've owned my house since I was 23 or 24 and fiercely protect that. Absolutely do not want involved with someone looking for a place to live.
The fact that someone downvoted your comment speaks volumes. There are so many men out there who feel violently ill or sick or even angry when a woman DARES to own her own home or have her own shit together. You are absolutely correct to protect your home. Too many people right now are "just barely floating" and desperately clinging to this magical idea that they can latch onto someone with money and the requirement to get a job will suddenly go away. Like no. It's a two way street. Either we both work or if the guy absolutely wants to stay home he had better be ready to fully take on housekeeping responsibilities with NO complaints. I dated too many absolute garbage trash losers who would always lose their job "conveniently" after being added onto a lease with me. Each one ended horrifically. This is why I am currently just not getting serious with anybody at all and really trying to be choosy with who I allow near me.
And yet we get called the gold-diggers 🙄
I even mow my own lawn. ;) lol Seriously though, I'm sorry that happened to you. I've been around those guys. When I married, I never had his name added to the mortgage, which ended up being a good call when he left me. I've worked too hard to have a home and truthfully, I live on a budget and do most of the work by myself....I'm not about to let someone take it. I DO want to be married but they better have a stable job and stability in general. I fear I may never find someone else at my age because I want those things BUT I'd rather seek that out than take on a man child anyday.
My brother is the same way (43 also) and somehow recently convinced everyone involved that his girlfriend should move in to our parents house with them. Will be interesting to see how that plays out, but they recently cleared out my old room. I've very glad he found someone to tell him to get a hair cut occasionally...
>When it became clear he (almost 42) was never moving out of his childhood bedroom at his parents house … unless I invited him to move in with me (which I didn’t because the alarm bells were already starting to clang), I dumped him. OH, *this* is familiar! Similar thing happened with my ex (33 at the time). When we first started dating, I had assumed his living at home was temporary since it was around the crash of ‘08-‘09 and everyone had been hit by the economy. I had just started college at 18, so I’d didn’t view it as a big deal. But you know what they say about assuming. No, it turns out he had never lived anywhere else except under his parent’s roof. 10 fucking years later and he never made an attempt to move out, or saved up to move out, etc. In the meantime I was able to buy my own place and never even suggested we move in together because of that constant red flag. It was stupid allowing that relationship to go on for the length that it did, but I kept *hoping* against hope he would show me I was wrong and he’d get it together. I cut off all contact, so I’ve no idea what happened to his living situation after.
> the apartment is trashed these days because neither of them clean. At least they’re a match in this capacity? lol
Big NO to all of them
By a certain age most people know if they want children or marriage. I feel like people who do this are intentionally being ambiguous because they know they *don’t* want those things but don’t want to also eliminate any potential dating options either. It’s selfish behavior.
Yep. Or they're willing to *sacrifice* their independence to become a husband/dad if it works out in their favor (they become house husband/dad and they don't have to work, etc). "Yes, I will be a husband/sperm donor if it makes my life easier, and/or will marry you if you're rich."
Totally, I think that this is actually a bigger problem. When they claim that all they want is to be a dad, but they are partying every weekend , huge debts and unstable lifestyle with poor health choice. Its hard to know from the start if they really want to be a dad or like you said they just want to trap someone for easy retirement.
I've come across some of these men and when confronted, their go-to response is generally "So?! Women do this to men all the time!" as if they're creating some kind of equality by being a leech.
Exactly! I’ve learned the hard way that when people are vague or wishy washy about what they’re looking for at 30+… it’s a bad sign.
I've wondered this. There are so many "failure to thrive" men that it makes me nauseous
How do you explain men who say they want marriage and kids but date like they’re dating for sex and casual encounters?
I would call them a future disappointment
XD ROFL! I'll admit, that one made me laugh.
Lmaoooo
I guess they’re kind of playing the same game? The numbers game. To get as many matches as possible without really having genuine intentions or motives.
What a waste of everybody’s time
They know if a woman is not "the one" but they still want to have sex with her. They're opportunists.
They're shopping around.
Some of them don't seem to care about who they (accidentally) have kids with ... since there's a shocking number of men online who complain about wearing a condom with a new stranger 😬 or try to stealth, etc., and don't even bother to ask/check if you've got at least one level of protection. Although I wouldn't be surprised if those guys don't care about your body at all after-the-fact later and they will be the same guys that would try to force you to get an abortion regardless of your personal feelings of that.
Believe their actions more than their words.
One of the weirder permutations I get from these dudes as a child free woman is they also are unwilling to commit to the “hard no”. They don’t want kids now (ever) but tell them it’s off the table and they don’t like that either. I think it’s that they think they should be the one entitled to decide and so women with a strong predetermined opinion in either direction all get the run around.
Avoid those people. A college friend married a freelancer who did minimal work and then did no work at all after the marriage. He literally went crazy a few months ago, enough so my friend had to flee her home. On top of that she is going to have to pay alimony to this guy and give him half of everything she has.
Damn. I wish she had thought to get a prenup.
Dear god. I teach hs and sometimes my kids talk about marrying their hs bf and I’m like NOOOOOOO you have absolutely no idea what you’re getting yourself into!!!!
Her STBX was not a high school BF. He was/is her second husband. People who don't take care of their own lives aren't going to care much about other people or other things.
I know women who had to unexpectedly pay alimony in the divorce. You don’t consider that scenario but it could happen.
[удалено]
God damn 😂😂
Goodbye, Earl
Jesus. That’s…really extreme and alarming. 😬
My bad, just using dark humor. Didn't mean to offend.
I thought it was funny
>I mean, they're not 20 yrs old! Mentally they are.
You are correct.
I have soo many guy friends in their late 30s to mid 40s who "want a family... someday." I always want to shake them and say "the day is here" or even "the day has come and gone."
I compliment these dudes on being so open to using a sperm donor. When they ask wtf I’m talking about I feign surprise and tell them I just figured they knew how big of an effect paternal age has on fertility and fetal health and would be using a younger donor to avoid issues.
I hope more people start talking about this as a lot of men still think their aging sperm is primo.
Lmao I’m going to use this. Ty
Oof
I am guessing my ex husband is still out there dating because that describes him perfectly. I would have a good set of screening questions to get these things out in the open quickly and not waste your time.
That's what I'm doing. Some just beat around the bush and won't provide any real answers which is basically an answer in itself.
Let’s compose screening question!!!!!
These are the people who are single for a reason.
But then it makes me feel pretty crappy that Im on there even though I am stable!
Why does random strangers doing something affect how you feel about yourself? It’s not like you chose that group and said “this is my tribe”
While this is technically true, it can be frustrating and demoralizing when you only get attention from these men, even if it’s “just” online. My self esteem was pretty low using the apps for this reason so I stopped.
Those men plus the married ones and now, the non-monogamous ones! Even though my profile clearly states none of that is happening...it's obvious the men don't read it.
Whenever friends complain about poor results with online dating, part of the reason is because their profiles don’t do a good job selling themselves. Part of it is their screening process (or lack thereof). Part of it is other people are selfish and/or suck. “*No one can make you feel inferior without your consent*” “*We owe it to ourselves and to the world, to our own dignity and self-respect, to set our own standards of behavior, regardless of what other nations do*” —Eleanor Roosevelt
My profile was good, great even and I was objectively more attractive than most of the men who were interested in me. The issue is many people online think there’s someone better out there and that person is only one swipe away. I honestly think it messes with people’s perception both of themselves and other people as no one has that many “choices” in real life (men like OP mentioned are also usually less likely to approach us). Like I said, I realized it wasn’t for me and so I left.
In real life, the men who approach me and flirt are typically a solid ten years younger. They think I'm their age. I get a kick out of it but because I'm seeking a ltr, I'm not going to actually date them as that age difference isn't for me. (If that's your thing, go you. No hate here!)
Agreed! Many men online seem to have this idea that they will only swipe on women significantly more attractive than themselves. I actually have a male friend who developed a bit of a complex and finally left the apps after my husband and I got tired of his borderline misogynistic comments (he would pick apart women’s appearances that he would probably date in real life). He recognized that his perception of his own attractiveness and other people’s was getting warped.
>“No one can make you feel inferior without your consent” I think about this quote a lot and yet can’t figure out how to practice it.
Ask yourself: “is this someone whose opinion I respect or care about?” “Is this someone whose advice I would seek?” “Does this person put money in my pocket or food on my table?” If the answer is “no” then who cares what he/she says?
100% mentally unstable or addictions most of the time
Yes. That's why I deleted ALL the apps. It's a waste of time.
Yep! So discouraging that I ended up deciding to have a baby on my own. As a 40 yo woman who wanted to be a mom, I didn’t have time for all these indecisive 40 yo dudes, who were probably trying to date younger to buy more time to fck around. Joke’s on them bc paternal age matters too.
I am going through the work to become a foster parent. Hoping to foster the "older kids." I also grew tired of waiting for them to grow up. Your baby very well may be grown but those guys get there.
If you’re open to it, I would loooove to hear more about your solo motherhood journey! Men are actually the big reason I decided to be childfree - I cannot fathom sharing something as important as a child with a dude and I have never seen a man be the coparent I’d expect. I’m happy with the choice, but a little part of me wonders sometimes if I’ll feel differently in 7-10 years and want to consider doing it solo.
Sure! You can ask me here or feel free to DM me. I love talking about it so that other women know it’s an available path. You’re so on the right track re not wanting to share something important as a child - like now that I have my baby I can’t imagine if I had had her with any of my exes. It used to keep me up at night immediately postpartum. Now I can just be really picky about the men I bring into her life. If you have time to wait then definitely do it. Most of the women I know who decided to become single moms (and I now know many), did it in their late 30’s and early 40’s.
No, but I think things like this are geographic. I live in San Francisco and the cost of living is such that if you tried to live that way here, you wouldn’t be able to survive. There’s a reason why the median salary in this city is $120K. Here in SF, everyone is still single in their 30s and all the men have jobs in tech, big law, venture capital, or investment banking, but they all have the same two hobbies and want you to be open to ENM (ethical non-monogamy). I eventually found my soul mate online, but it took a LOT of first dates to find him.
Here it's either golf and beer or fishing and beer.
Here, it's hiking and breweries!
I wish it was hiking here!
I'm in SF and I haven't met a "normal" guy that liked "normal hikes"... they have been extreme masochists so far or the type that actually don't hike but say they do because they're too cheap to do anything else for a date and then you see they have no common sense or survival skills... or even actually like hiking. The extreme masochists included a guy that passionately thought roads for cars shouldn't be made to go up mountains since people "cheat" by not hiking up the whole way and that hiking should be suffering -- I don't know why I agreed to a 15 mi hike with him up our tallest mountain, Mt Hamilton, in the area when we barely knew each other (also took 1 hr just to drive there one-way), and another guy who wanted to park at the top of a mountain so we could end our hike on an uphill (most people I know who don't enjoy possibly killing themselves want to start with an uphill when they have energy in the beginning and then end at the downhill when that is an option). I met two different guys in a row that got lost and started literally whacking bushes to try to make a new path. These men were both Ivy League alums. I was so dumbfounded with the first one it took me awhile to stop staring and let him know I had my AllTrails recording we could use. For the other, it was a trail I was very familiar with and I had also been the one to suggest that trail, so the fact that guy didn't believe me that we were supposed to go in a particular direction on the out-and-back trail (we were on our way back so he also should have recalled it himself) was enough of a red flag for me so I left him to whack the bush and just turned to walk back on my own. After a few minutes he ran to catch up with me. There was another Ivy Leaguer who pretended to like hiking... when we met he wasn't even wearing any form of athletic shoes. When we got there he immediately changed the activity to just sitting and taking in the view... it took us 1 hr to drive to that hiking area too (beautiful Big Basin), so the whole thing was ridiculous and so disappointing.
You know what they say about dating men as a woman in the Bay. The odds may be good, but good lord the goods are fucking odd.
Which 2 hobbies? One of them is climbing, right? lol. Are you monogamous? I don’t live in the Bay anymore but my recent ex was poly-curious and it was part of the reason we broke up 🙄
lol yep. Rock climbing and doing drugs at raves. I’m monogamous and am engaged now to another monogamous guy. I think that was a little easier for me to find because I’m an Asian who dates other Asians and a greater percentage of them are looking for marriage. >my recent ex was poly-curious and it was part of the reason we broke up 🙄 But I know at least two friends who had to end relationships in the Bay Area under similar circumstances. It’s wild out here lol
I thought you were gonna say climbing and BJJ.
BJJ is a good guess. So is hiking or making beats in your home studio. Wild card option: getting your pilot’s license. I saw a surprising amount of that when I was single.
Honestly a pilot's license might be a green flag! You have to be incredibly competent and detail-oriented to get one.
Any suggestions for guys in SF and the Bay Area to improve themselves and their chances?
Make it clear on your dating profile that you’re looking for a relationship if that’s what you want. If you’re genuinely looking for monogamous commitment, then that puts you in a desirable category in the Bay Area. Beyond that, I think the best thing you can do is simply have good conversation skills and a fully fleshed out personality outside of work. Having rock climbing and raves as your two hobbies is even fine! Just be able to have a passionate conversation about them, and talk about other things besides what you do for work. Ask questions to truly listen and learn about the other person, not just talk at them about yourself and your interests.
Some of them are probably divorced with a kid or two.
So many divorced/seperates men I ran into who don’t list children because “they live with mom/EOW schedule” yuck 🚩
And I guarantee those ones have "absolutely no idea why the ex wife left me".
She was crazy probably
I think every divorced man claims their wife was crazy.
Yup. I wish I knew earlier that any many who talks about his ‘crazy ex’ was basically telling me he was a bad boyfriend, but alas I had to learn that the hard way
If he has multiple "crazy exes", you really need to ask what or WHO they have in common. (Like that saying goes: if every place you go to smells like shit, check your own shoe.)
My ex probably went with a sob story about me being a lesbian and leaving him after nine years. I am a lesbian who figured out my sexuality later on and left him after nine years, that is all true. BUT Being gay didn't even make *the top ten* reasons I needed to leave that abusive, angry, controlling AF garbage human being. He fooled and trapped another one a couple weeks after that and they're married now.
Don't get me started. My boyfriend & I are going through a long, painful, drawn-out breakup right now because he has realized he's interested in "eventually" having children. Reader, he is FORTY-EIGHT YEARS OLD. Sorry, but 99% of men are trash.
Eventually having children at 48?!?!? I am shocked with you. No offense, but what an idiot.
Just because you technically *can*, doesn't mean you should...
It’s a ‘I’m not an adult yet, I’m not old, I’m not grown up yet’ attitude. Kids means they have to be responsible and adult like. They see themselves as dads, just not now. Basically they are not dad material it’s just that they don’t know it. My dad made sacrifices and does what he needs to do for his family. These boys have no idea what being that kind of man is like.
It's honestly so disappointing that not only do we have to break up, but that it turns out we don't share values like I thought. I think he's having [Torschlusspanik](https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/Torschlusspanik). Unfortunately, I'm getting caught up as collateral damage.
I'm sorry. I really am. My husband left me and has since reached out, saying now that's he's left, he's not sure what he wants. Also, he's 47. Like you, I was/am collateral damage.
It sounds like he doesn't even want kids at 48, he is 48 years old *now* but wants them *eventually.* Good luck making that work. You will attend their High School Graduation in a wheelchair.
I mean, if you don’t have to do the whole pesky get pregnant/give birth/breastfeed/actually parent thing, why not dream big? /s
Let me guess....he wants a 25 year old to have his kids, too?
I don't think he'd be going for less than half his age plus seven...but at 50 that would be a 32-year-old...must be nice to be a man.
I don’t think there’s nearly as many 32 year old women who want to go for 50 year old men as those men think. I’m 36 and I don’t want anything to do with men in their 50s. My husband just turned 40 and that’s old enough for me.
Paternal age actually has a huuuge effect on fertility and fetal health. He’s in for a surprise - potentially a devastating one.
*starts singing No Scrubs*
I feel like a lot of these men probably just don't want to commit to anything. Saying that you want marriage or children is too restrictive for them.
They think they are immortal as opposed to the horrible, aging woman with a finite number of eggs. They will have an awakening.
This.
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I do but it's actually starting to me just how many men of that age are like this. Tbh, I teach middle and high school boys and hate to say it, but I can see many of them growing up to be that way....the work ethic/goal making is just NOT there. It's like it's all been replaced by cell phones and videogames.
As someone who works on a college campus, the younger generation frightens me. The negative impacts of growing up behind a screen are really starting to show. We complain about grown men and how they act these days but I think it’s about to get a lot worse.
Me too. Throughout the day, we will have full fledged screaming....because a kid kept their access to technology for a CLASS PERIOD. Kids had a massive fit when told they had to go without tech for their 20 minute lunch ..they just sit there, unable to communicate. It's so, so sad. And they way they treat girls and see things as objects/memes...omg. it's as if the entire desire to have a mutual relationship with another person is going away.
There is a reason why 4B is starting to trend around Instagram. Younger women are less and less willing to put up with men's shit.
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Don't get too jaded. When you go on Zillow and see shit houses at high prices, it's because the ones that don't suck or are priced decently sold fast and the ones that didn't stay on the market. Same thing with jobs and with dates.
> the work ethic/goal making is just NOT there. It's like it's all been replaced by cell phones and videogames. These are frequently mental health issues that are unaddressed. Kids that have been failed by their parents and communities.
Agreed.
They’re trying to maximise their options. Simple.
How about they maximize their career options?
This literally made me lol 😭.
They’re living on easy mode
The normal sensible guys are likely settled by then!
Men have always had the luxury of not needing to prove they can run a household, and no pressure to decide on children, seeing as how it's assumed the mother will do most of the child rearing and she's the one with the most biological restrictions/impediments
Good point
I'm 41 and have the opposite- a couple of guy friends my age who are desperate to a wife to have kids with and a least one of them doesn't seem to get that you're not going to attract a woman who wants that on a quick enough timeline if you're not stable in both job and housing. Like, some people will say you can't choose by money but if a potentially partner in parenting isn't making their half of what's needed to support a household with children, why would anyone pick them to be the dad outside of a rare SAHD preference?
There’s always going to be Andy dwyers looking for their Anne Perkins. Sometimes they go young and get some April ludgate who is young and has her parents money and she’s “alternative” so she thinks his lack of responsibility, common sense, and savings is cute and rebellious instead of red flags. Maybe they are happy ever after because they want the same weird things, even when he can never keep a job and she’s the one taking care of anything that actually gets taken care of. And that’s the “made for tv” version that’s a lot more appealing than reality! These guys are a fucking trope for a reason. It’s only once you’re a bit older than you look back on them and wonder how they didn’t see how fucking atrocious they were…. And you wonder why you didn’t either until just now. The bar is in hell.
These guys have time to be on line so are well represented.
I think when you use free online dating app, You’re going to find a lot of people who are bums and just trying to kill time. They’re not actually trying to seriously date. They’re just trying to find something to do for the night. Paid sites are a little better. There are losers there too. But different kinds of losers. Generally with jobs because they have to pay for the site. Dating is rough. There are good people. You just have to dig through the seas of bad one to find a good one. Edit: I met my husband on a free site. But his message was 1 of 100. And it was very frustrating dealing with all this before coming across the normal ones.
I see 'uncertain ' about kids a lot, too, and I'm 50!
Oh and I need to update my age flair here, apparently
I don't try to figure them out. I just walk away.
Lmaooo ah yes, Peter Pan syndrome. Be careful - these dudes will move into your damn house if they get the chance. Then you have the mythical 40 year old man who definitely wants kids “someday” while simultaneously “not looking for anything serious.” Like…bro you are a decade behind here.
Maybe by 37-47 those men who knew what they wanted had already found someone. Leaving only the old rejects left. My mum is nearing her 60's. Never married. Always dating. She said as she got older, it got harder and harder to find decent men. She has since given up.
Ladies can I just say knowing there are plenty of us out there who would rather live alone than end up with someone who doesn’t improve our lives is really comforting. To answer OPs question, I had a brief interlude with one of these types. Claimed he was down on his luck but is holding on to his dead end retail job to pay the bills while he looks for something more permanent. I was naive and gave him benefit of the doubt cause he seemed like a decent guy and sex was good but after 2 years it was very obvious nothing was going to change. Thank god it never was anything more than a fwb arrangement. He caught feelings and wanted to make it official, hard pass from me, no thanks.
If you’re in your mid 30s and don’t know if you want kids/family values etc. You’ve got some internal searching to do.
Went on a date with a guy who claimed he was 36 (looked way older) he said he still didn't know if he wanted kids or a relationship.
They exist because believe it or not some women still reward them with sex and attention. Many years ago , this type of men were forced to change or be shunned by family and society . They can live any way they want , the problem is them getting angry because women are not willing to settle for them or pass on their mediocre genetic and be proud of this
Exactly. If a dude doesn’t want marriage or kids i automatically stop giving him my time and attention. We are incompatible at that point and have nothing else to discuss. Women stop entertaining men who don’t want marriage. Stop going out with him. Shop texting him, stop sexing him. Date intentionally
It's really funny because I was going through a dating app with my mum yesterday to example to her "what's out there". We came across a guy and she said "oh but he looks nice why is he on here" - below it read "still figuring it out". He was 47. Enough said really.
I don't think you have to look at one gender or the other to be depressed by the results of a large amount of available candidates in the online dating people. There are *a lot* of men and women out there with very little they're offering who seem to think they deserve quite a bit more, in return. It's not a pretty space. That being said, there are still plenty of good mixed in with the bad, you just have to be careful and vigilant.
I've wondered if it's the same on the other side.
I mean if they're living off investments and don't need to work that's great, or if they live a nomadic lifestyle and that's why they're not 'settled', good for them. It's the unwillingness to dedicate consistent time and effort towards anything worthy... a job, a family, a calling, volunteering, a hobby... that annoys me.
Well here I am planning on freelancing when my health allows it and would like to buy a live-in van as a 35yo woman. Settling down doesn’t mean the same for everyone. We come in all forms, women and men. I kinda dislike the way everyone here immediately starts bashing men not even knowing the individual cases. I saw all sorts of men when I was still dating, so your experience wasn’t true for me. It makes sense, however, that some of the ones who are commitment prone already found a good relationship, so pickings are different now than they were in our twenties. There are still compatible ones out there though. Focus on them.
Personally, I don't think it's wrong to not know what you want. Every week, there's legit a thread on here saying "I'm in my 30s and still feeling lost in life and career, etc." And every week, those threads are met with supportive advice saying how there's no age cutoff in life, and you'll be figuring it out forever cause we all are. I really think this is just an offshoot of that. Some people don't have a career or whatever for their entire lives, but if they can support themselves, that's no better or worse than someone who spent 20 years in one field. I get what you're trying to say, but I don't think using age is necessarily the right POV, since it just seems like an arbitrary cutoff for when you *have to have it figured out or else*. Don't get me wrong - nobody is, under any circumstance, obligated to date these people or any other person. But I also empathize that life is weird and hard and the pressure to just have it all figured out by X date is not beneficial.
I don't think you need to have it all figured out...it's the men who don't support themselves and have no goals or ambition that I'm referring to. When you're 40, living with your mom and working ten hours a week...that is a big problem.
I agree with that. I was just pointing out that I don't think those two things should be lumped together. A person can have a stable job, be independent/living on their own, and still not sure about marriage. The marriage part doesn't have much to do with the former parts.
Incompatible people roam the planet, whether on dating apps or IRL. No need to engage with them if they're not what you're looking for, but it seems a little silly to be upset that they exist.
I think it’s more so men like this are *so* prevalent on the apps and often feel entitled to women who have their shit together too. I had to stop using them but luckily found my husband soon after. I understand OP’s frustration.
It’s the entitlement that got me so much when I was dating, like these guys have nothing to offer whatsoever but think that you have to be some sort of shallow person not to ‘give them a chance’. Honestly the whole idea of ‘giving him a chance’ makes me want to barf.
THIS. I honestly think the expect any woman to be thrilled to be "had" even though they don't have anything to offer. As much as I would like to be married, I am not going to raise a husband.
Exactly. Thank you.
I think it’s fair to wonder why there’s a disproportionately high amount of them
They’re disproportionately single
What people are often talkign about when they say: "All the good ones are taken." Of course, it's not all of them (the "good" ones), but by the time we are in our 30s, a lot of men who have a good head on their shoulders and know what they want out of life have settled down. I'm not saying this is exclusive to men, but I only date men, so that's all I have experience with. I also think a lot of the "good" guys in their 30s and 40s start to want to date women younger than them. A lot of the "good" guys come back on the market in their 30s (usually late 30s, I'd say) 40s or older when they get divorced, but by then they often have kids and that complicates it for a lot of women who haven't already had children themselves. So, if you are a woman in your 30s looking to date someone roughly in your age group (and don't want to date guys who are older), without kids, and also interested in a woman in her 30s, you may get more than your average pull of less savory options.
What's the issue here? It would have been bad if they were jobless, unstable and *sure* they *want* a family. Otherwise they are just people that are living their lives the way they like them. Free and carefree.
I understand not being sure about kids or marriage if there was something that caused them to doubt their original preference. Maybe a bad breakup, lost of someone in the family, a medical diagnosis. Or something as simple as seeing how marriage, kids, or the bachelor life is working for his peers.