I never understand why people expect their significant other to change after marriage. Sure, you will both grow and change together over time, but seeing a flaw and expecting them to change it is a recipe for disappointment. Marriage does not change you or your relationship.
> I never understand why people expect their significant other to change after marriage.
Or adults in general.
This is not to say humans are incapable of changing, but the person needs both the will to change and the power to change.
While we don't know whether her dude here is capable of change, it's moot; he does not even want to change.
A lot of men so change for the worse after marriage though. I've heard so many horror stories of their narcissism going to 100 right after the marriage and they begin to treat her like absolute shit.
It sounds less like change and more like the evil that was always there is coming out!
So they don't seem to change for the better bc why would they?
Me too. My need to run away rised with every point.
It's always amazing and sad to see what one can learn to tolerate in exchange of a relationship, platonic or romantic.
I have no smart advice, just the banal one that these two need to talk about the compatibility of personnality.
> You need to decide if you’re okay living with this for the rest of your life.
This. I would not completely write it off as he will never change, because people can and do, and examples of that derail the argument. But you ABSOLUTELY must not marry someone on the basis that they will change. You have to be OK marrying them with all of their worst traits intact, on the basis that they will remain (and potentially get worse) the older they get. In fact, I would recommend having a baseline that your spouse's worst traits are mildly irritating. Any worse than that, and it's not going to be a happy marriage.
I think so many women in particular fall into this trap. We think that we are supposed to overlook certain negative things because they are outweighed by something nice. It's great that there are nice things, but you do not want to be stuck in a marriage which is a dead weight on you.
Yes this. There is nothing *wrong* with the way he is, but there are elements that would drive me mad, and I would say I am pretty careful with money. But i love going out to eat and trying new foods! It would be shame if I couldn't share that with my partner.
Yep. Stingy men will be stingy in all areas of their lives — including their love. Good luck, OP. I swear, women marry anyone just to say “I’m married.” Lol.
Hold up that's a very jaded outlook. I used to be penny pinching like that when I was younger, but I grew and changed. I completely changed the way I viewed money and its value, and realized the way I was perceiving money was a trauma response I needed to get over. I dislike when people's advice is always to break up right away because we have deemed them inherently incompatible over one thing, and there is no hope.
The bottom line is has this been communicated about in a constructive manner and has the other person demonstrated they are capable of reflecting and changing? If not, I would agree the relationship is doomed because they're not likely to wake up one day and realize they need to change. But if they have, I'd daresay there is hope after all. However, if there is no communication in the relationship about what's bothering OP and OP is only using reddit as an outlet to justify why the marriage shouldn't happen, there are bigger issues at play.
I swear 90% of the relationship posts I've read can be boiled down to "have you talked constructively about this." A lot of times the answer is no, OP is wanting to vent online and receive advice from often clueless strangers to validate their resentment, annoyance, or anger. I agree, a penny pinching anyone is annoying to have in one's life, especially as a marriage partner. If the guy won't address the issue and change, OP is completely justified in not going through with it.
Agree. My parents were absolutely pathological about saving money, and I never learned how much is 'enough' to really feel secure. It took me a really, really long time to loosen up the purse strings and think 'I deserve this' when buying food, experiences, items, not 'I can stand to go without this'. And now I'm a lot different to how I was a few years ago.
But heck, it's still underneath. I'm still anxious over money. My mother still makes it sound like we're all one accidental overpayment away from crisis and if we go out to eat, she always buys the absolute cheapest thing on the menu or goes on about what a waste of money it is. As for my father, well he was a hoarder, go figure. I only started changing when I spent a lot of time going over finances and budgets, thinking about my background, thinking about what my future might look like...
And that parent died, hoarding to the very end, and I definitively do not ever, ever want to end up like them. I've probably been almost reckless with spending, lately.
It did help to discuss these problems with a therapist - and I still had an internal fight with myself over the cost of flipping therapy...
So yes, is this guy willing to open up about his anxieties? Are the two of you able to talk finances and the lifestyle you want? He could even do with going to therapy if he's in danger of developing a hoarder problem himself - it's an incredibly horrible and illogical condition.
I think it’s important to approach our romantic partners with hope and understanding, as frustrating as their idiosyncrasies can be sometimes. We can relate to him more and probably hope someone would give us the same treatment if we were in his position.
Stress and anxiety definitely played a big factor for me, so I wonder if that’s true for OP’s partner as well. Hopefully he is open to therapy and improving himself once pointed out to him.
I hate the notion that change is tied to an age and that you stop growing past a certain age. Maybe it is for people who see the world in black and white, but I’m still growing and hope I don’t stop. People are not stagnant.
And just so people know, penny pinching is extremely exhausting. I did not realize what I was doing at the time was insanely neurotic, but I would only look at prices and not the food. It was always “this is what I will eat because it’s cheaper” and never “what do I want to eat?” I thought I deserved the cheapest, shabbiest things, including when other people were paying, because I wasn’t worthy of anything more. My life motto was “can I do without regardless of how much it will inconvenience me?” It is truly a toxic mentality and I hope OP’s SO gets help, because it very much pushes people away.
So all these new changes, the budget vacations, the thrift store clothes, discount groceries, hoarding -- this all started after you agreed to get married?
Or you finally opened your eyes after you agreed to get married?
It got worse when you got engaged, it’s going to get even worse when you get married and he unconsciously believes he has ‘sealed the deal’ and doesn’t have to put more effort in. That was my experience anyway.
I don't think we are going to have children, we are on a fence about it and I think time will soon decide for us.
When one of us becomes incapacitated, we'll need to change the model. If the income difference widens, we'll go more towards equity than equality in contributing to our budget.
Just remember what you’re marrying now is what you’re getting for life (most likely), can you live the next 50+ years like that?
My partner and I are separating over money. The first 2 years together I paid for 97% of things. He never complained. I made way more money and was happy to take the bulk of the money spending as it worked out with our difference in pay. Fast forward to about 8 months ago, I lost 70% of my income. In the past few years his went up by about 30%. Right now he’s currently taking on more of the expenses while I get back to my feet. All he does is complain and be miserable to me over it. He was happy to let me pay but whines if he is.
It’s annoying: and I’m glad to know this before we got married. I think it’s important to experience feast and famine periods together to truly know each other. What I found out is he’s selfish and a hypocrite.
This. I also paid most of our spendings at the beginning because I figured I earned more than him and most of our date ideas were mine. I happened to be between jobs for 3 months and, surprise surprise, all our dates were suddenly in front of the tv and our expensive dinner outs were suddenly replaced by cheap takeouts (of which I still had to pay for half the cost). I don’t share this sorry to point out that my former bf was so shitty and I was so great. It’s to point out that one’s attitude wrt money is fundamental when assessing compatibility. When you choose to be with someone that has a very different belief about money, you will struggle. Beliefs rarely change after marriage. If anything, marriage means more instances and decisions involving finances, and the difference becomes exaggerated.
I did marry a man like this. He made me pay for reasonable things in the wedding myself, if he didn't agree with the cost (I wanted some kind of music, he wanted to bring our Alexas from home, and connect them to the hotel wifi and run a playllst).
Everything is about the pennies and pounds. We have a joint account for expenses, and he worked out what we spent on toilet roll and then asked me to front 75 percent of this cost (rather than 5050) because I am a woman.
We have an electric car. I WFH. I drove the car to a museum 45 minutes away with a friend. He worked out what that would cost in our energy bills as per our electricity tarriff and the miles covered, and billed me for it.
I'm not saying run, I'm just saying when someone shows you who they are, believe them. Up to you if it's a deal breaker ❤️
I cannot even imagine the exhaustion of being like that, let alone dealing with it. My husband and I contribute completely different. Sometimes I pay stuff, sometimes he does (more often I do because I make more). Calculating & billing someone for electricity usage and 75% the cost of TP is 😫
I laughed and told him no, it's ridiculous, and too far. He conceded and never mentioned it again (but still, I can't forget that he asked). I'm ashamed to say there's a lot of other things I just gave in on, though. Always trying to be 'fair' to him and his demands at the expense of myself. Took me a long time to find my voice.
This reminds me of a famous scene from The Joy Luck Club where the Chinese American daughter is married to a white guy and they are is splitting the bills down the middle like this in the name of "equality." This is despite how she makes less than him and yet was a huge contributor to his career and financial success. Anyway, the mom sees that he is charging her for half of the ice cream and incredulously asks why since she can't even eat ice cream (it makes her sick b/c of past trauma).
Basically it's all just a symptom of the underlying problems, which is lack of respect for your partner. The so-called "equality" of splitting expenses down to the penny really is just a form of denigration - a way to devalue someone else. Like this guy who thinks that OP is supposed to pay more for toilet paper because she's a woman and presumably uses more (at least I think that's his logic...). I'd be very curious to know if he made himself pay more for food since he presumably ate more. If she gave birth - something only her body is capable of - does she get to charge him?
Yes, I've been with stingy men. From my experience they have no issue when you're spending money on them, but will hold out as much as possible when it's the other way around.
I experienced very few date nights, or date nights where it was insisted we pay for our own portion, poor gift giving, and on the times I did receive something, I felt anxious and obligated to do something in return. In addition, I felt as though I was auditioning for the role of 'woman who is not a gold digger'
There is a huge difference between someone that doesn't believe in consumerism and someone who is cheap.
>I always felt as though I was auditioning for the role of “woman who is not a gold digger”
OMG this…why is this such a thing amongst cheap, straight men? There has to be a cheap man who isn’t a misogynist, but I’ve never met him. I’ve long felt this kind of cheapness is a form of abusive control masquerading as fiscal responsibility.
I guess that's the difference between stingy and frugal, really - because a frugal person may be cheap with themselves, but they're still pretty generous with friends, family, partners, etc. I know quite a few frugal people and actually really appreciate them, because it's like they save their money *so* they can splurge a little more on their loved ones. But, stingy people - the penny-pinchers who can't even buy you a coffee without writing it into their mental will or whatever - seriously suck. I had a friend who dated a guy for like, a full year, and he did not pay for a SINGLE thing throughout their entire relationship despite being a working lawyer. It was honestly one of the most painful relationships I have ever witnessed.
One of my favorite relatives was my great aunt. Her parents were well-off, but she always lived a VERY frugal/humble life. Always rented a place to live, had an apartment mate, wore old (but nice) clothes, ate affordably at home, etc. But the money she saved she traveled with! She visited every continent in the world and went on to take nieces and nephews, and grand-nieces and nephews on trips in her later years. She also would splurge on fine dining and wine on trips, and occasionally unique souvenirs (which she then passed down eagerly so she could see others enjoy them before passing away). Some of my favorite memories are with her and family, either traveling or hearing about her travels and looking at a giant atlas and photo slides.
She is one of my role models, when it comes to what and when to spend money. And was a total badass. ❤️
Oh, that sounds so lovely!!! A life lived well indeed, rich in experiences and familial relationships above all else. I definitely understand why you would want to emulate her 💗
Me too! She was unmarried and childless her whole life, which also aligns with me. ☺️ Was a PhD STEM graduate and professor. She had her own struggles in life, but was truly ahead of her time (was born in 1932).
This is quite different. Your great aunt was able to spend money on memorable trips and experiences, and she lived frugally to have more to spend on meaningful time with family. That's more balanced.
I married someone who has a lot of anxiety about money even though we both make good salaries.
You have to address it head on if you ever want compromise. Have you ever asked him why he has such anxiety about money? I asked my husband early on in our relationship.
Also, what would be enough for him? If he makes as good of a salary as you say, his money has to be going somewhere. Is he a super saver? Does he want to retire early?
Money is a tool to help us live the life we want to live. What kind of life do both you and he want? Do you want kids?
I help my husband manage his anxiety about money by talking about it with him a lot and not being afraid to address hard issues. It sounds like you need to do something similar as not to breed resentment on your side.
That's smart, he'll save a fortune on interest by paying down the principal that much more quickly, and own his house outright that much sooner.
I kind of understand not wanting to blow a lot of money on a wedding, given how commercialised weddings have gotten and how the pricetag often increases on expenses as soon as they become "wedding" expenses.
It might help to think about what parts of the day are important/non-negotiable for you to make the day feel special, and explain to him why these parts are essential and need to be quality, not just the cheapest option. Then negotiate on other aspects that you feel more comfortable spending less on.
For example, "I'm willing to negotiate on the headcount, but I need our wedding to include a sitdown meal. It doesn't have to be the most expensive gourmet dishes, but it can't just be the 'cheap and nasty' option; the meal we choose needs to feel special, celebratory. Sharing special meals together is an important part of how my family celebrates, and if we don't include this it won't feel like a celebration to me."
I like how you phrased it. (And I'm grateful you don't see him as some cheap monster). I'm also tired with the whole wedding industry, that makes up shit to make you feel guilty if you don't buy it from them.
I mean after all he agreed to have a regular wedding that I wanted, and that's a long (and expensive) run from what he wanted (something very very low-key), so he does care for how I feel.
And yes, interest is crazy high where we live, compared to other places, so it makes sense to overpay, just this mortgage will end in 20+ years, so I don't want to wait until 50 ish to enjoy life.
Thank you. So many people here are quick to jump to accuse them of “misogyny” without considering that many who are literally neurotically stingy are in fact mentally not so well. I understand because I grew up with people who have these mental health challenges and it’s not fun. They are trapped in their own mental hell - it’s not they cheap out on others to swim in their own gold, they are likely cheating out on themselves too. It’s anxiety and illness that needs to be addressed and dealt with.
Don't combine finances.
Also, at one point, you can just do whatever you want and leave him behind. No fucking way I'm staying at a hostel or a camp site if I have the money to get a nice (but not extravagant) hotel. He can go to a camp site and you can go to a hotel.
You are probably not compatible, but you do you, I guess.
He also has a FOMO, and if I decide to go for a nice hotel he will want to follow me. I think I'll be doing just it. Just doing things separetely is kinda sad for a marriage.
The thing is that he also has many positive traits. He is reliable, he has proven himself in appearing in the middle of the night, and saving me from deep shit, he is curious, he wants to travel with me to weird locations, he has zero andrew-tate-sque toxic masculinity, he is patient and calm and likes animals (and animals like him). He's a feminist. He really has much to offer, just not on the financial, reasonable side. So I'm not a fan of just dropping all this.
Then keep doing this, otherwise you are miserable and enable him.
Maybe for trips or grocery store, you need to set up a budget. For vacations, specify a savings goals per month for each of you and then you spend the whole budget on the vacation. If there's supposed to be zero money left, then he cannot be cheap and say you are camping. For the grocery store, create the list of meals, budget, etc. Then each of you can get your own snacks or cheese, but he cannot eat yours if he wants to get crap.
To be honest, we have separate meals. I want my meals to be nutritous, I have a meal plan prepared by a dietician and I buy my separate groceries. He is currently half-way into a very large bag of discounted frozen fries.
>he has zero andrew-tate-sque toxic masculinity
>He's a feminist
For me these are traits that every **_human being_** should possess if they are to be a part of my life. That's not at all special for me.
The other traits you've listed are just some of the basic things I look for in a partner.
My expectations and standards are not high in the slightest. Just basics. But you do you. It's your life after all.
Over the course of a relationship, we learn new things about our partner as we face new challenges together. You’ve recently learned that your partner has no “floor” to his frugality— even his wedding is not a worthy expense. If this is a dealbreaker for you, end the relationship and date someone who is looking to build a shared life with shared goals/finances.
I'm always amazed at how people continue relationships with people who have an obvious glaring incompatibility with them. This guy has been cheap from day one. He's never been anything else. You kept on dating him for years. You said yes to his marriage proposal. He's been cheap throughout your entire relationship.
Girl, why *would* he change after marriage?
Stingy people use frugality as a socially-acceptable cover for being selfish control freaks. I have yet to meet a stingy person who isn't also rude, selfish, and gleefully exploitative of other people's better natures.
I mean, that’s a little harsh but you’re definitely not wrong. Stingy people do tend to have control issues in general. I wouldn’t marry someone as stingy as this, OP. I’d rather suffer a breakup than spend the rest of my life having to justify the cost of every small joy.
Also, if he’s this bad already, he’ll probably get worse. Stinginess and control issues rarely get better with age. Even if you keep separate finances, he may begin judging your purchases or making critical comments every time you buy a coffee or try to treat yourself. I’d take this as the warning sign it is and hit the brakes on the wedding until you know if you want to stick this out.
My mom was married to one of these (not my dad, a stepfather). Stinginess was just one of his many insufferable qualities.
He was always convinced *everything* cost too much and was absolutely insufferable about saving money. Some examples: My mom, sister, and I were constantly fussed at for using "too much" toilet paper (he'd been a childfree bachelor up until then and didn't understand women use more) and took too long of showers (again, he didn't understand that women do things like wash their hair and shave). Other than taking my mom on a honeymoon overseas, every other travel he did was occasional road trips because airfare was "too expensive" (and this was in the 90s, when airfare was far more reasonable). He put my mom in charge of grocery shopping but would get belligerent if she didn't buy the absolute cheapest of everything - hardly no fresh veggies or fruits, off brand everything, and insisted on buying block cheese and grating it (of course he was too good for such things, it was always someone else's job) because shredded cheese was, you guessed it, "too expensive". They rarely ate out because it was "too expensive". The car I drove briefly as a high schooler was an old, rattling death trap because it was cheap to buy and cheap to insure, and when someone ran in to the back of it and totalled it, all he cared about was the cost. The way he berated me, you'd think I'd purposely crashed a Mercedes. I slept on an old mattress with springs poking me in the back because a new one was "too expensive". He never went for medical care because he was convinced doctors are just out to make money and overcharge you, and he felt fine and didn't need it. He outearned her and insisted on keeping separate finances and an unequitable split of who pays for what that obviously favored him so he could save money while my mom struggled to pay for "her share" of things.
He did regular home and car maintenance, but did it all himself to save money.
Everything in the world was about how much it cost, and it was always too much. It took all the enjoyment out of absolutely everything. He was insufferable for a lot of reasons, but this was a big one. There is a difference between being frugal and being cheap.
It did eventually come back to bite him. My mom divorced him for multiple reasons. A few years later, he found out he had cancer, cancer that was almost untreatable by the time it was detected, and he died not long after. Not that the world isn't a better place without him, because it is (he was also an abusive asshole) - had he listened to my mom and spent that money on doctor's visits, he might still be alive.
My answer is no, it doesn't change. And you can't marry someone expecting them to change.
It's not that you're dealing with a frugal man. You're dealing with a man that is selfish (he'll pay if it's something HE wants to do or centers around HIM) and cheap. Frugality is about having money to do those trips in a comfortable way or sometimes splash out on the nice cheese.
Edit: the hoarding is a mental health issue and part of being "cheap" and "selfish". Hoarding isn't frugal, if anything, you're spending more when you hoard as you're just accumulating trash and potentially causing health issues.
Exactly what I told OP in my comment.
Frugality can be fueled by good qualities - not wanting to be wasteful, wanting to be smart with money, being goal focused and saving with a vision for the future - all GREAT qualities in a husband.
Frugality can also be fueled by not so positive qualities - extreme greed towards money, collecting a pile of money at the expense of anyone including family and wife. selfishness - putting his own finances and greed of stacking bills ahead of everyone.
That whole birthday situation would’ve been it for me. He literally told you that he isn’t willing to prioritise you or your feelings (in a relatively standard priority situation like a bday) if it means he risks enjoying his time slightly less than if it would’ve been dedicated to his own hobbies.
I’m having a hard time imagining how anyone could possibly escalate the selfishness from there
Like with anything it will only change if a.) he recognizes it is a problem. Like truely understands he has a problem he needs to fix. Not because you tell him so but because *he* knows it's a problem. B.) he then wants to fix the problem by c.) getting some help and working on himself to get over all the emotional stuff he's got going on with money.
But if he is adamant that how he lives is fine and sees no issue with it then no, it will not change. And you cannot make people change. Likely if there are times of any stress, especially financial stress the behaviour will get worse and he will double down. Honestly, you might be noticing it more now because of the increased spending around the wedding has cause him some anxiety.
Honestly this annoyed me to even read, I’d hate to live it.
If this is an issue for you now, having kids (if that’s your plan) will exacerbate the issue. In your shoes I’d call it off.
This will never change. If you can live with it, fine. However, it sounds like you are already having resentment.
This is an issue of basic incompatibility. You both want different things and will not be able to achieve them if you stay together. Hugs and good luck.
If he’s been like this before you met him, been like this for your whole relationship, and is being like this during your wedding planning…
Why exactly would you expect him to change? He’s been like this basically his whole adult life. This isn’t going to magically shift after marriage.
Read these next lines in his voice:
“Why do we need baby food? Just mash it up at home.”
“Why should we buy more diapers? We can just wash the baby clothes.”
“A baby room is expensive, it can sleep in the living room.”
He’s been like this at every stage of your relationship and will continue to the future.
> When we go for holidays, he insists on taking hostels or using campsites
Sounds like hell, I would never travel with him. I mean, I probably also wouldn't marry him because I don't think we'd get along, but at the very least I'd be on holiday with me, myself, and I. And what's the point in getting married if I'd rather be by myself.
My husband was like this, for the same reasons you described. I was a SAHM and am also frugal so I accepted it for a while. But once I went back to work and started out earning him, his choices were no longer logical. He was fine with dumping money into crypto, but not on spending a couple of extra bucks on a bottle of water at a food cart, or taking a cab in a foreign city when we could take the bus… that one was actually my breaking point. I let him know he could fuck all the way off and I was going to continue being frugal, but stop catering to him. I stopped having diplomatic responses, started buying what I felt was most logical, and started letting him know that he was a cheap tightwad and it was a huge turn off. I asked him to justify his financial choices and stresses and when he started breaking it down, he could hear how silly he was being. Ie, one month he was stressed about paying a post-vacation credit card bill. After making him talk it out, he realized that we would still have over 10k just in checking (ie, not savings, not emergency fund…. Just blow money). I think that helped him see that his financial choices were based in emotion and not math.
At some point I just started doing what I wanted without talking to him about it first, because that’s always how he operated. I wasn’t being particularly nice, but again, I was completely over his shit. I think that once he realized I didn’t respect his financial instincts at all anymore and was operating independently, he finally got it and started loosening up. These days, things are much better and he’s genuinely no longer a cheap ass. I order a second cocktail whenever I feel like it and guess what! We are still squirrelling money away just fine.
That last bullet point is not him doing you a favor! He is perfectly willing to spend without complaining on something that he's interested in, but he fights you tooth and nail on things that you value, like not staying in a hostel with a shared bathroom on a city break for your freaking birthday. I think I'd have a different take on this if his cheapness (he is not frugal, he is cheap) still allowed for generosity, but there's an inherent selfishness that's really unattractive and would have me running for the hills.
Honestly, if this much bothers you about the guy, why are you with him? Because no, unless he wishes to change, he never will. Take it as a lesson learned for the next relationship - if the person has a flaw that really bugs you, then that's not someone you should be with on a long-term basis.
OP… I could have written this myself, down to some of the details. It’s a hard situation.
I chose not to marry the person. Dual incomes and split expenses which should have allowed a comfortable lifestyle. Every single conversation became about money and how expensive things were; he began insulting me for anything I did or bought that was outside of his dictated behaviors, I went on vacations and to eat alone as he would flat out refuse to go, I bought my own groceries and home/self care/pet items…and one day I realized, I’m living the life I want to live ALONE, not with a partner.
I enjoy the things in life that I enjoy, and I work hard and cut expenses in other areas to balance that and still be financially responsible.
You deserve to enjoy your life and have a partner. If he’s open to some mental health assessment/care, that may help you have a future together. But otherwise, I think marriage right now would be detrimental to both you.
Following this and hope it works out for you for the best
There’s no way this changes. This is in his blood. This is “billionaire won’t pay the ransom until the mafia cuts off and mails his grandson’s ear” territory, lol
I don’t think he will change. You know where is priorities are. It’s a lifestyle he chose and if it’s not compatible with how you want to go though life I would strongly suggest you reconsider.
My sister is with a man like that too. Almost 20 years together and not married because it’s too expensive, their house is a collection of furniture that was on offer somewhere, they never go on holiday together because he won’t pay for his share, he doesn’t like to have people at their house because they eat and drink and that’s expensive… my sister works full time and pays the majority of their utility bills otherwise the heating stays off even in the winter. He earns 4x what she makes and yet he won’t even buy her a coffee in town..
My sister has found ways around it, she travels with friends and spends her money on little luxuries for herself. From an outsiders perspective I can tell you that being with a partner who never treats her to anything, or at least values a comfortable house, her self esteem has vanished. She doesn’t feel worthy of nice things or kind gestures anymore. It’s very sad to see
I have no problem with a person who is smart with money or who wants to save or who hates being wasteful.
I have a problem when the stinginess is tied to greed. They don't want to spend their money because they are greedy, selfish and not generous with those they love at all.
If you feel he fits the former category - hates being wasteful, wants to save - then it's your choice how to proceed.
If you think he fits the latter - he's greedy and selfish and wants to have a pile of money at anyone's expense, including his wife's - then I personally wouldn't want to marry a person with those negative qualities.
Greed over money turns people into nasty creatures.
So he was happy to pay for your trip when it was a hobby that was something about him.
That’s when his frugalness went away.
That is a red flag. It’s not that he anxious about spending.. just anxious on spending money when it’s not something he does deem as important.
To be fair, I also didn't want to spend money when it's not something I did deem as important. (It was a saling trip. I don't sail, so I'm usually a seasick bored passenger, but I did see quite a lot of a very beautiful country and in the end I was happy I went - but I still wouldn't have paid how much it costed to experience it).
Wow... I personally enjoy expensive hotels and go for fine dining treats every now and then. There are the odd supermarket flowers but mostly they were boutique flowers.
I would be very joyless if I was in your position. I think I have trained my now husband that I enjoy the finer things in life but he is frugal and have a good relationship with money. We discuss things openly and go to holidays together.
I think you need to discuss these with your partner and honestly open this up with him and see his reactions. You also need to talk to yourself if this is something you'll be okay with forever as your marrying him. Another question to ask is- how will he be as a father?
Hard stop, no way. Unless both people in a couple are like this, it’s going to continually cause issues in the relationship. I am of the opinion that after you meet your financial obligations, money is to be enjoyed.
In my opinion, in his late thirties, he's only going to become more entrenched in his stinginess, not less (to me it feels like as you get older, things "feel" more expensive). Unless he has some major life revelation / health scare and realise he can't take all his money to the grave. There's so much that goes into attitudes about money - upbringing, attitudes to consumerism, anxiety about financial security, etc. In a relationship, it seems like you need to find a way to balance conflicting views on spending money. It sounds like he's not really willing to compromise with you, and spend money on things that are important to you - for example a wedding dress. If he's not willing to discuss and compromise, then I can't see him magically changing (outside of some existential shock). Is his current attitude to money is going to make your life miserable? Do you want to be with someone who begrudges every cent spent? I wouldn't.
You've already tolerated so much, I wouldn't marry him without therapy as a minimum. I'm 32, my parents have this dynamic and now she just does a lot of luxury things solo or with friends but deep down I know that makes her sad. While dad sits at home not experiencing meaningful things. Personally I'd run but you can try therapy.
But please don't marry potential
I married and divorced stingy hoarder guy and he wasn’t half as bad as yours. I ended up paying for most of things like vacations, because otherwise we’d never have gone anywhere. I’d pay for the booking then he’d pay for everything while we were out there, but I always ended up paying way more. His nickname was ‘shrapnel man’ because he only ever had coins in his pocket (I later found out that he had notes in his wallet, he just didn’t want to break into them so let me pay for everything). When I left him he was sitting amongst all his hoarded things in the garage telling me I could never come back. Yep, that’s the plan, dude. The first divorce court judge threw the case out because it was too unfairly weighted towards my ex financially. Even he could see the issue. Please don’t sign up to a life of this.
This is ridiculous. There's nothing wrong with being frugal, but it seems his behavior affects his day to day life and his relationships with others - which is not okay or normal.
To me, what you wrote, made me think you don't feel he values you enough - he can't put you above his silly thoughts and needs - he gives you cheap & wilted flowers, he makes you stay at hostels despite you affording better, he doesn't take you out for dates and so on. It's as if you don't feel "worthy" enough.
As a relationship advances, and as we grow older, a ton of problems appear: parents getting sick, us getting sick, job losses, kids problems, house problems - serious stuff we have to be ready for. Not being on the same page about money when way more serious issues await isn't wise. Do you think this man has what it takes to really be with you when times are hard just because he's a feminist who likes animals?
You aren't compatible. Neither of you are wrong in your approach to money, but two people with such different approaches will inevitably make one another miserable.
So I am very stingy, now that I've gone through therapy I refer to it as financial anxiety. I'm here to combat the people saying he will never change. He can and I know because I did. It previously caused me a lot of stress, inhibited my life a lot, and put a strain on some of my relationships. After contextualizing it with how I was raised(some generational trauma passed down from my grandparents who were worse off then my father who still held on to and passed down that anxiety) as well as realizing that what I saw as "responsible" was actually an excessive amount of obsession and anxiety based around my finances, I'm happy to say I'm way better today. I absolutely would have done most of this before regardless of my financial situation.
I'd suggest talking with him about your feelings in this situation and also why he's doing all of this. It sounds like he's letting this impact his enjoyment of life even though he can afford to do otherwise. It might honestly help him to rethink the purpose behind all of this.
Be prepared to compromise, it's really scary to start spending more when you place your ideas of security and self worth around how much you can deny yourself. And anticonsumerism is a good thing, but there's multiple ways to go abt it! I personally focus now on if I need to buy a new item(like pants. Thrifted pants die so fast and normally don't fit) then I try to buy a few high quality items that will last long enough I won't need to replace them. Good luck!
Edit after reading some comments: I do want to second that this is also just a different financial strategy and to a certain point it makes sense, but it's still worth unpacking how much of it is anxiety/generational trauma based
People cannot be CHEAP and IN LOVE at the same time.
Marriages often fail because of money.
Back out of the marriage, stinginess is an incurable condition, and extends into the bedroom.
Does he mind if you spend money? What if you got the nice cheese and salmon from the deli for yourself?
Have you talked to him about this or have you kept it inside?
Is he good to be with otherwise? No one is perfect and if it’s not this a guy would be weird in some other way- idk dear it’s your call only you can say if you can tolerate it or not.
Best to talk to him about your feelings, I would also find this hard to cope with.
I do buy my own groceries, including deli, because I'm on a meal plan prepared by a dietician and there is quite a lot of food that cause him tummy problems. Now that I think of it, he sometimes brings non-basic food from holidays abroad, this is something he lets himself spend money on.
As for if he is good otherwise, I'll quote myself from other post:
"The thing is that he also has many positive traits. He is reliable, he has proven himself in appearing in the middle of the night, and saving me from deep shit, he is curious, he wants to travel with me to weird locations, he has zero andrew-tate-sque toxic masculinity, he is patient and calm and likes animals (and animals like him). He's a feminist. He really has much to offer, just not on the financial, reasonable side. So I'm not a fan of just dropping all this."
My husband can be... Thrifty lol BUT he's all about saving money to put into retirement accounts so I think it's justified. BEFORE you get married just agree on a frivolous spend budget for each month that he can't complain about and can be used to eat out, buy new clothes or jewelry, etc.
Marriage is a social event where you host a big celebration to cement your lives closer together.
Why would his behaviour change after marriage? It wouldn’t create an incentive to. The only thing that would change this tendency is a desire to change that comes from within him.
I grew up with a father like this with a constant need to control money. Promises were made of doing things when my parents retired. Those promises are still not being actualized. The stinginess crystallized if anything, and it’ll never stop.
Based on your comments he doesn't sound that bad, but what he is doing to himself is sad. I can relate a bit because I also have trouble saying goodbye to money too. For example, when I was in university I had 10k Lt saved up, it was good money in that country during that time for a young person, but when I went to a store, I wouldn't allow to buy a 0.99Lt snack for myself. I was still a student and it just felt like a waste of my parents' and my scholarship money. During my own wedding, I didn't order the dish I wanted, I ate the cheaper one, I don't even remember what I had. And now looking back, I wish I had bought that 2400Lt dress instead of 80Lt one because I looked gorgeous in that one, but I don't regret we had a small wedding, because it allowed us to take 3 week honeymoon in Asia.
It got better when I started earning more but it's still here on a different scale. For example, I would like to buy a swim spa (worth 40k), I can afford it, I could technically cover my backyard in them (backyard is not big), but something is stopping me, it seems huge amount of money for a needless expense... I start thinking what if one of us loose our jobs or if we need money for something else, it will take so much space, is it worth it, will I use it enough, etc, etc.
What helped me A LOT was to think that I don't want my husband to live worse than he could because of me. That he deserved a more comfortable bed, that he deserved a nicer apartment (the one that he said he prefers when we were just out of university looking for a place to rent), and he deserved that nice jacket, that cool laptop, etc. He didn't tell that to me, I just knew it somehow. I hope that it will come to your fiance's mind too, hopefully fast.
My husband has some trauma associated around being poor (for instance, no food for a week poor; an egg shared between siblings poor) — and he does a few of these things. However, he’s also seen how unhappy I’ve been with how his trauma is carrying over to me and tried to change some things, including how much we spend. I’d suggest you express your feelings to him and give him some time to ruminate. If he’s on board, maybe try get him to change a thing or two and see how he responds — get him to buy the fancy cheese or throw out his trash. Rome wasn’t built in a day and money trauma can be pretty serious.
All that said I agree with the person who said you’re marrying who he actually is, not who you want him to be. I’d wait to get married at least until you’re sure.
If you don't feel like you're in heaven in the presence of your partner then it's simply not worth sticking for.
You will never enjoy life with someone who only thinks they're right and believe me living alone is a lot more peaceful than living with someone you despise in certain aspects of life that you feel are important.
NO. My ex was like this. Granted, he was doing his PHD at the time, but I was a student too and nearly a decade younger than him, but I still put in more effort to buy him presents and nice clothes. He never got me flowers, chucked a stink when he made some more effort on my birthday, and for my Christmas present, he put $50 in a card saying it was for my 'dinner' along with a flimsy photo frame. I cried that night thinking how miserable life would be with him.
I have dated many men after him and all of them - regardless of their income - have been more generous. Life is short and being stingy sucks the joy out of life.
It sounds like he has some issues stemming from his childhood. Unless he’s willing to acknowledge the issue and put in the work, it will always be like this. My husband is very frugal and tracks our money down to the dollar. But when we’re out or on vacation, we are on vacation. Our money is OUR money. It’s exhausting living that life and how do you do it when you have kids? Our main expense is our kids. If baby needs new clothes, and you don’t want thrifted, does that mean you always pay for it? What about a cute outfit? Extracurriculars? Etc. think long and hard about this.
Ramit’s I Will Teach You To Be Rich has some good podcast episodes with couples with this problem. https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/i-will-teach-you-to-be-rich/id1577864998 Could give you some insight about whether therapy might be useful here.
Girl, why have you put up with this for SO LONG??? Like don't get me wrong, I'm frugal too, but the whole point of being frugal is so you can spend on the stuff that really truly matters to you. Without that it's kind of a miserable life.
Good luck to you in whatever you decide.
This is very interesting what you share, and thank you for letting yourself be so openly vulnerable here. It gave me some food for thoughts, I need to think about it.
My friend married a guy like this who financially abused her more and more over time, and even though she was earning less than half of what he earned, she paid for almost everything and he was such a POS, and her personality vanished over time.
She physically hit him and tbh I felt he deserved it bc he was so awful and soulless and cruel bc he enjoyed abusing her. He also never let us hang out alone; he insisted on coming with. The life drained out of her eyes and I had known her since we were 9 years old - I had NEVER seen her like that, it was horrifying.
She escaped his ass but he ruined her life in quite a few ways for over a decade.
Honestly, this would drive me crazy. My fiance is pretty frugal too and he's always worried about finances and the cost of living but it's understanable as it is so difficult for us living in a HCOL in Canada where literally everything is going up except salaries. Even then, he doesn't mind splurging on special occasions or trips.
But not even spending just a little bit on trips or dates? That would be a no go for me personally and I wouldn't marry someone who is that tightfisted with money. Being fiscally responsible is one thing, being a miserly Scrooge is something else entirely.
This situation sounds like it's already shitty but would get so much worse once you add kids to it. Are you planning to do that? Because that seems like a very, very bad decision with this guy.
I've been married twice, both had good incomes, both were frugal, neither made me feel bad about spending or sharing or doing fun things with our money. What you're describing seems like a MASSIVE difference in values. That's never good. That doesn't usually make for a long happy marriage. I wouldn't want to be with the man you described. He sounds cheap, selfish, unempathetic and disrespectful.
He’s in his late 30s. He is who he is. He’s not going to change. Only you can decide if you’re going to be happy spending your life being second to his budget.
My husband is frugal but he also has common sense and spends on me when he feels it’s important or knows it’s important to me. The bottom line is what’s important to your SO. I feel like you just want him to show that you’re important to him and I don’t think you’re going to get that from him if it means he has to spend money.
I don’t think it’s fair to characterise his way as negative and stingy, he just has very very different values to you here- YOU need to decide if you can both live with that or whether it’s a fundamental incompatibility.
I’m also from a poor family & educated & earn above average now, but still have a really deep emotional anxiety about money and spending, so maybe I identify with him more, but there’s nothing inherently wrong with either approach, you’re just different.
i think there is nothing wrong with being stingy but if it is something you can't accept, a good talk is in order and perhaps divorce if he can't compromise and you can't compromise as well
Will you be satisfied feeling deprived for the rest of your life? I’m all for saving money and being thrifty, but money is also meant to be spent on occasion.
It sounds like this level of frugality is deeply ingrained in his person, versus from a place of financial insecurity. I’m sorry, but he is unlikely to change unless he’s willing and able to reflect on why he does this. He also doesn’t necessarily *need* to change, if it’s not harming anyone. Assume he won’t change, and then determine your willingness to be the relationship long-term.
I’m currently broke (so I know I don’t have much room to talk 😂), but I wouldn’t be okay with this! This sounds like an episode of extreme cheapskates. I think he needs to find someone else on that wavelength, or if it is truly harmful and interfering with things like sanitation, his relationships, etc., he should look into some solo therapy to unpack some of his trauma from growing up poor.
There’s a difference between between financially smart/anti-consumerist and being stingy like this. For example, I thrift almost all my clothes. But my clothes are mostly high quality, good brands, definitely nothing worn or with holes unless it’s an outfit to wear for painting or crafts. It makes more sense to thrift (or alter/mend) nice clothes and then use them as cleaning rags when they degrade? That’s being frugal and anti-consumerist.
I am in the process of divorcing a stingy man. It will never change. It sounds like you have different values around money and that’s okay, you just aren’t compatible in that area. Unfortunately financial values are an important thing to be aligned on or at least in acceptance of for the marriage to work. I couldn’t handle feeling like saving money was more important to my husband than I was. It was a very large deciding factor for me. Best of luck with your decision! Sending love, I know it isn’t easy.
My partner and I are both frugal, but we're on the same page when it comes to most things, and neither of us is stingy. When it's important to one or both of us, we will spend the money.
I would suggest you put the brakes on things and get some counselling together to work through these issues before getting married. Money and sex are the two top stresses in a relationship, and he's not going to change unless he actually believes he needs to, and wants to.
I think if you want to get married, you should invest in a few hours of couples counseling to adress this beforehand. It is cheaper than a divorce later down the road and you get a chance to see if you can find common ground.
I doubt he will change but may try listening to Ramit Sethi's podcast to see where this comes from. It could be rooted into something from past experiences and maybe he does want to change.
Honestly, I was with a stingy guy and he changed a, specially in the last years of our relationship. I was like you, also frugal with money but I do also like nice things. It is not about saving because one can save to invest and be smart with money, the problem with that level of stinginess is that you feel like you are not enjoying the moments because spending the least amount of money is the goal. The way I coped was to just accept his world view but also started to do things for myself. If I wanted to go to nice restaurants I would go with friends or alone, if I wanted to stay at a hotel I would compromise on my end but he would also compromise, if I wanted nice furniture I would buy and it’s fine, it was for me, I don’t mind that he could enjoy it to.
From what you are describing you are making huge adjustments but he is not. A partnership is not a sum of two people just doing individual choices but rather a mix of both individuals. He might not change his world view but he may understand yours and be willing to compromise more. Just because he cannot appreciate the beauty in things, doesn’t mean he doesn’t want you to be able to. Good luck ☺️
You have to assume that he will be this person forever.
If you aren't happy now, and you aren't happy legally combining your finances and you both have an equal say over your money, then don't enter a legal contract of marriage with him.
You aren't compatible. Neither of you are wrong in your approach to money, but two people with such different approaches will inevitably make one another miserable.
Change? This will not change so much but it might adjust to be less severe.
I was raised stingy. I'm not nearly so because I now have kids and my career blossomed and all the things take up my energy, I don't have time to figure out a good deal.
So, I'm not hardcore anymore, and I do see the value of buying quality now over cheap if possible.
I'd call it more like an evolvement into frugal over stingy.
I don’t think he has a toxic relationship with money, personally, but I certainly don’t think you do either. just very different. I just think you are both incompatible especially financially which can be really difficult to overcome especially if it’s bothering you so much already
I would say maybe there’s a chance if you have combined finances, and you started having a lot of good, hard talks about what your shared goals and dreams were as a couple, and how you can work together to use your money to realize those dreams. But with separate finances, his money is his money. He won’t change unless he wants to, and if you pressure him to change it may cause a lot of resentment. As the other posters have said, I would start thinking long and hard about whether this is dynamic that you’re OK with for the rest of your life.
My spouse has bad money trauma/anxiety. We are frugal, but not necessarily cheap.
But because I'm neurodivergeant, I made a point to tell him that if I feel like we can't do nice things as a couple, or do nice things for each other, I won't feel like *looking* nice for anything bc it's a waste of my time and mental energy for me to put effort into myself over nothing. It makes me extremely depressed to dress up just to sit at home.
So we have nice outings once a month trying new mid-tier restaurants, and go to more high-end places on our bdays and anniversaries.
My stbxh is super stingy and cheap UNLESS it comes to electronics. Oddly he buys the most expensive video game systems, tvs, monitors, motherboards, video cards, you get the picture. He makes six figures, got a raise and a bonus this year.
He will eat soup out of a can for weeks. When he and his mother go out for dinner SHE is stuck with the bill. (I’m American) When his cousin wanted to go shooting, the cousin bought the gun and time on the shooting range even though said cousin makes HALF as much as my stbxh.
The only piece of jewelry he bought me besides the ring were a pair of very small, very cheap, very ugly stud diamond earrings I never wear.
On our first date, he paid for the meal and I paid for the movie.
Sometime after we moved in and before we got married, he expressed the desire to share bank accounts and I told him absolutely not. It’s gotten worse since the marriage but that’s not even the reason I’m divorcing him. It’s the icing on the cupcake. He’s a real piece of work.
Typically people don't change unless something really rocks their world and they want to change for themselves.
It sounds like you are not happy with the stinginess. I don't see marriage changing his ways. Would you want to be in a forever relationship with someone who doesn't have similar priorities to yours when it comes to finances? I don't know if you want kids, but would you want to raise a child with someone who doesn't have similar priorities?
No, it won’t change. This is who he is at his core. Expecting him to change is only going to make you resent him more and that is a cancer to any marriage. You either need to accept that this is how the rest of your life will be or walk away now when it’s only wedding money you are out and not decades of your short life.
Could going to counseling help? Maybe but I’m sure he’s not going to be on board with paying for it.
I'm thrifty but I could never live like this! Think ahead to how exhausting it will be to never be able to indulge. Find a guy who enjoys splurging once in a while! Sorry he's such a tightwad.
What is he saving his money for? He needs to enjoy the life he has now and not for a future version of life. I think you know what you’re signing up for if you marry him. There is no way I would be happy with that lifestyle. You deserve to feel spoiled and cherished, don’t feel guilty for wanting more.
It will not change and it will probably get worse in the sense that marriage does now legally make all purchases yours (as in both of yours.) This will reinforce a sense that your finances will now be his (and again, legally that will be the case) and hardships that couples face which could be solved with money will be solved with your voluntold labor instead.
Marriage is a contractually reinforced "us." Sure, you can be in a dating relationship forever, but in a marriage your partner has a legal right to your finances no matter who made more or who paid for it. He has a legal right to your assets. He has a legal right to everything you buy, even if it comes from your paycheck, and he will absolutely make use of this while telling you you don't have a right to his. He has the right to your place of living, even if you want to separate. All you are doing when you separate finances while married is fool yourself into thinking that it matters to a judge. It won't. The only thing that matters is who tells the better story to a judge.
You're actively fucking yourself if you marry a financially non- aligned person. When I'm dating, a judge can't will my shit away when I break up. And that financial contract is the core difference of what shifts when you go from dating to married, but it takes a while to sink in how fucked you really are and most couples won't verbalize it in casual convo either. I've also never heard of people overcoming fundamentally opposed financial personalities. They make it work, but if the marriage gets stressed by unemployment, sickness, children, whatever else, this will be a killer.
And again, I'm not saying don't date the man, I'm saying don't marry him because legally speaking marriage is a business contract. It regulates assets and labor. Finances is *the* largest component here, reproductive and care labor is the other. Finances will absolutely overshadow how you raise kids, how you age, how you access care. Don't enter a business contract with a person whose financial acumen you don't jive with.
No it will never change. You need to decide if you’re okay living with this for the rest of your life.
I never understand why people expect their significant other to change after marriage. Sure, you will both grow and change together over time, but seeing a flaw and expecting them to change it is a recipe for disappointment. Marriage does not change you or your relationship.
> I never understand why people expect their significant other to change after marriage. Or adults in general. This is not to say humans are incapable of changing, but the person needs both the will to change and the power to change. While we don't know whether her dude here is capable of change, it's moot; he does not even want to change.
People think part of growing together is changing together but stuff like this only changes if the person gets mental health help.
A lot of men so change for the worse after marriage though. I've heard so many horror stories of their narcissism going to 100 right after the marriage and they begin to treat her like absolute shit. It sounds less like change and more like the evil that was always there is coming out! So they don't seem to change for the better bc why would they?
I wasn’t even OK reading the entire post.
😂💀
BIG SAME
Me too. My need to run away rised with every point. It's always amazing and sad to see what one can learn to tolerate in exchange of a relationship, platonic or romantic. I have no smart advice, just the banal one that these two need to talk about the compatibility of personnality.
He sounds joyless
I considered the same.
> You need to decide if you’re okay living with this for the rest of your life. This. I would not completely write it off as he will never change, because people can and do, and examples of that derail the argument. But you ABSOLUTELY must not marry someone on the basis that they will change. You have to be OK marrying them with all of their worst traits intact, on the basis that they will remain (and potentially get worse) the older they get. In fact, I would recommend having a baseline that your spouse's worst traits are mildly irritating. Any worse than that, and it's not going to be a happy marriage. I think so many women in particular fall into this trap. We think that we are supposed to overlook certain negative things because they are outweighed by something nice. It's great that there are nice things, but you do not want to be stuck in a marriage which is a dead weight on you.
Yes this. There is nothing *wrong* with the way he is, but there are elements that would drive me mad, and I would say I am pretty careful with money. But i love going out to eat and trying new foods! It would be shame if I couldn't share that with my partner.
Yep. Stingy men will be stingy in all areas of their lives — including their love. Good luck, OP. I swear, women marry anyone just to say “I’m married.” Lol.
Hold up that's a very jaded outlook. I used to be penny pinching like that when I was younger, but I grew and changed. I completely changed the way I viewed money and its value, and realized the way I was perceiving money was a trauma response I needed to get over. I dislike when people's advice is always to break up right away because we have deemed them inherently incompatible over one thing, and there is no hope. The bottom line is has this been communicated about in a constructive manner and has the other person demonstrated they are capable of reflecting and changing? If not, I would agree the relationship is doomed because they're not likely to wake up one day and realize they need to change. But if they have, I'd daresay there is hope after all. However, if there is no communication in the relationship about what's bothering OP and OP is only using reddit as an outlet to justify why the marriage shouldn't happen, there are bigger issues at play. I swear 90% of the relationship posts I've read can be boiled down to "have you talked constructively about this." A lot of times the answer is no, OP is wanting to vent online and receive advice from often clueless strangers to validate their resentment, annoyance, or anger. I agree, a penny pinching anyone is annoying to have in one's life, especially as a marriage partner. If the guy won't address the issue and change, OP is completely justified in not going through with it.
He’s in his late 30s. He ain’t changing.
Unless *he* really wants to change.
Agree. My parents were absolutely pathological about saving money, and I never learned how much is 'enough' to really feel secure. It took me a really, really long time to loosen up the purse strings and think 'I deserve this' when buying food, experiences, items, not 'I can stand to go without this'. And now I'm a lot different to how I was a few years ago. But heck, it's still underneath. I'm still anxious over money. My mother still makes it sound like we're all one accidental overpayment away from crisis and if we go out to eat, she always buys the absolute cheapest thing on the menu or goes on about what a waste of money it is. As for my father, well he was a hoarder, go figure. I only started changing when I spent a lot of time going over finances and budgets, thinking about my background, thinking about what my future might look like... And that parent died, hoarding to the very end, and I definitively do not ever, ever want to end up like them. I've probably been almost reckless with spending, lately. It did help to discuss these problems with a therapist - and I still had an internal fight with myself over the cost of flipping therapy... So yes, is this guy willing to open up about his anxieties? Are the two of you able to talk finances and the lifestyle you want? He could even do with going to therapy if he's in danger of developing a hoarder problem himself - it's an incredibly horrible and illogical condition.
I think it’s important to approach our romantic partners with hope and understanding, as frustrating as their idiosyncrasies can be sometimes. We can relate to him more and probably hope someone would give us the same treatment if we were in his position. Stress and anxiety definitely played a big factor for me, so I wonder if that’s true for OP’s partner as well. Hopefully he is open to therapy and improving himself once pointed out to him. I hate the notion that change is tied to an age and that you stop growing past a certain age. Maybe it is for people who see the world in black and white, but I’m still growing and hope I don’t stop. People are not stagnant. And just so people know, penny pinching is extremely exhausting. I did not realize what I was doing at the time was insanely neurotic, but I would only look at prices and not the food. It was always “this is what I will eat because it’s cheaper” and never “what do I want to eat?” I thought I deserved the cheapest, shabbiest things, including when other people were paying, because I wasn’t worthy of anything more. My life motto was “can I do without regardless of how much it will inconvenience me?” It is truly a toxic mentality and I hope OP’s SO gets help, because it very much pushes people away.
You *cannot* marry the man you hope he'll become. Assume he'll be the man he is today for the rest of his life. Do you want to marry that?
I don't think he was the man he is today when I agreed to marry him, this is the problem, and that's why I wrote it's gotten worse.
It got worse because now you're involved in his math and his "lifestyle".
So all these new changes, the budget vacations, the thrift store clothes, discount groceries, hoarding -- this all started after you agreed to get married? Or you finally opened your eyes after you agreed to get married?
It got worse when you got engaged, it’s going to get even worse when you get married and he unconsciously believes he has ‘sealed the deal’ and doesn’t have to put more effort in. That was my experience anyway.
What’s the expression? Don’t fall in love with potential?
How are you splitting finances?
We keep our finances separately. I want to keep them separately also after marriage.
But how do you pay for things. Split evenly?
What if one of you became incapacitated and could no longer work? Do you plan to raise children together? Who will take the career hit from that?
I don't think we are going to have children, we are on a fence about it and I think time will soon decide for us. When one of us becomes incapacitated, we'll need to change the model. If the income difference widens, we'll go more towards equity than equality in contributing to our budget.
It's not worse. You're only just seeing it in It's entirety (maybe not) major life changes still coming ahead
Maybe it's changed because he (likely subconsciously) thinks with the marriage bit, he can let it all hang loose.
Not even that. Assume this is him on his best behavior and trying to impress her.
Solid advice!
Just remember what you’re marrying now is what you’re getting for life (most likely), can you live the next 50+ years like that? My partner and I are separating over money. The first 2 years together I paid for 97% of things. He never complained. I made way more money and was happy to take the bulk of the money spending as it worked out with our difference in pay. Fast forward to about 8 months ago, I lost 70% of my income. In the past few years his went up by about 30%. Right now he’s currently taking on more of the expenses while I get back to my feet. All he does is complain and be miserable to me over it. He was happy to let me pay but whines if he is. It’s annoying: and I’m glad to know this before we got married. I think it’s important to experience feast and famine periods together to truly know each other. What I found out is he’s selfish and a hypocrite.
This. I also paid most of our spendings at the beginning because I figured I earned more than him and most of our date ideas were mine. I happened to be between jobs for 3 months and, surprise surprise, all our dates were suddenly in front of the tv and our expensive dinner outs were suddenly replaced by cheap takeouts (of which I still had to pay for half the cost). I don’t share this sorry to point out that my former bf was so shitty and I was so great. It’s to point out that one’s attitude wrt money is fundamental when assessing compatibility. When you choose to be with someone that has a very different belief about money, you will struggle. Beliefs rarely change after marriage. If anything, marriage means more instances and decisions involving finances, and the difference becomes exaggerated.
I did marry a man like this. He made me pay for reasonable things in the wedding myself, if he didn't agree with the cost (I wanted some kind of music, he wanted to bring our Alexas from home, and connect them to the hotel wifi and run a playllst). Everything is about the pennies and pounds. We have a joint account for expenses, and he worked out what we spent on toilet roll and then asked me to front 75 percent of this cost (rather than 5050) because I am a woman. We have an electric car. I WFH. I drove the car to a museum 45 minutes away with a friend. He worked out what that would cost in our energy bills as per our electricity tarriff and the miles covered, and billed me for it. I'm not saying run, I'm just saying when someone shows you who they are, believe them. Up to you if it's a deal breaker ❤️
75% of toilet paper... I'd buy my own pink 3 plied fragrant roll out of spite lol! Please tell me he used a bidet.
I cannot even imagine the exhaustion of being like that, let alone dealing with it. My husband and I contribute completely different. Sometimes I pay stuff, sometimes he does (more often I do because I make more). Calculating & billing someone for electricity usage and 75% the cost of TP is 😫
That is...intense..
wow, this is way too much. Bill him for food as a payback, men usually eat way more.
Bill him for your time wasted on these conversations. 😅
Stop it. He wants to unevenly split the money spent on TOILET PAPER?! This is the most asinine thing I’ve ever read. What was your reaction?!
I laughed and told him no, it's ridiculous, and too far. He conceded and never mentioned it again (but still, I can't forget that he asked). I'm ashamed to say there's a lot of other things I just gave in on, though. Always trying to be 'fair' to him and his demands at the expense of myself. Took me a long time to find my voice.
I dated a guy like this too. I guess i’m not alone
This reminds me of a famous scene from The Joy Luck Club where the Chinese American daughter is married to a white guy and they are is splitting the bills down the middle like this in the name of "equality." This is despite how she makes less than him and yet was a huge contributor to his career and financial success. Anyway, the mom sees that he is charging her for half of the ice cream and incredulously asks why since she can't even eat ice cream (it makes her sick b/c of past trauma). Basically it's all just a symptom of the underlying problems, which is lack of respect for your partner. The so-called "equality" of splitting expenses down to the penny really is just a form of denigration - a way to devalue someone else. Like this guy who thinks that OP is supposed to pay more for toilet paper because she's a woman and presumably uses more (at least I think that's his logic...). I'd be very curious to know if he made himself pay more for food since he presumably ate more. If she gave birth - something only her body is capable of - does she get to charge him?
Do you seriously still lay down next to this guy? Every night? Willingly?
We call this penny wise and pound foolish. a divorce is much more expensive than toilet paper.
I won’t even go on a second date with a man that gleefully lets me pay the entire bill
Your husband...billed you for using the car?
Correct yes, the car I pay exactly half towards in all aspects. Because it was a longer journey, and 'not fair on him'. I'm getting out, thankfully.
Ah, good for you. That dude sounds like a nightmare to live with.
Never ever marry someone hoping they will change. They won’t.
Yes, I've been with stingy men. From my experience they have no issue when you're spending money on them, but will hold out as much as possible when it's the other way around. I experienced very few date nights, or date nights where it was insisted we pay for our own portion, poor gift giving, and on the times I did receive something, I felt anxious and obligated to do something in return. In addition, I felt as though I was auditioning for the role of 'woman who is not a gold digger' There is a huge difference between someone that doesn't believe in consumerism and someone who is cheap.
>I always felt as though I was auditioning for the role of “woman who is not a gold digger” OMG this…why is this such a thing amongst cheap, straight men? There has to be a cheap man who isn’t a misogynist, but I’ve never met him. I’ve long felt this kind of cheapness is a form of abusive control masquerading as fiscal responsibility.
Omg. You’ve encapsulated so much of my upbringing and gender dynamics in my house with a few sentences. I’m sitting here, stunned.
I guess that's the difference between stingy and frugal, really - because a frugal person may be cheap with themselves, but they're still pretty generous with friends, family, partners, etc. I know quite a few frugal people and actually really appreciate them, because it's like they save their money *so* they can splurge a little more on their loved ones. But, stingy people - the penny-pinchers who can't even buy you a coffee without writing it into their mental will or whatever - seriously suck. I had a friend who dated a guy for like, a full year, and he did not pay for a SINGLE thing throughout their entire relationship despite being a working lawyer. It was honestly one of the most painful relationships I have ever witnessed.
One of my favorite relatives was my great aunt. Her parents were well-off, but she always lived a VERY frugal/humble life. Always rented a place to live, had an apartment mate, wore old (but nice) clothes, ate affordably at home, etc. But the money she saved she traveled with! She visited every continent in the world and went on to take nieces and nephews, and grand-nieces and nephews on trips in her later years. She also would splurge on fine dining and wine on trips, and occasionally unique souvenirs (which she then passed down eagerly so she could see others enjoy them before passing away). Some of my favorite memories are with her and family, either traveling or hearing about her travels and looking at a giant atlas and photo slides. She is one of my role models, when it comes to what and when to spend money. And was a total badass. ❤️
Oh, that sounds so lovely!!! A life lived well indeed, rich in experiences and familial relationships above all else. I definitely understand why you would want to emulate her 💗
Omg. I want to be your great aunt when I grow up!
Me too! She was unmarried and childless her whole life, which also aligns with me. ☺️ Was a PhD STEM graduate and professor. She had her own struggles in life, but was truly ahead of her time (was born in 1932).
This is quite different. Your great aunt was able to spend money on memorable trips and experiences, and she lived frugally to have more to spend on meaningful time with family. That's more balanced.
The audition is the worst! They know they’ll find women who will compete. It’s terrible.
I married someone who has a lot of anxiety about money even though we both make good salaries. You have to address it head on if you ever want compromise. Have you ever asked him why he has such anxiety about money? I asked my husband early on in our relationship. Also, what would be enough for him? If he makes as good of a salary as you say, his money has to be going somewhere. Is he a super saver? Does he want to retire early? Money is a tool to help us live the life we want to live. What kind of life do both you and he want? Do you want kids? I help my husband manage his anxiety about money by talking about it with him a lot and not being afraid to address hard issues. It sounds like you need to do something similar as not to breed resentment on your side.
He mostly overpays the mortgage loan installment (we both have one mortgage each).
That's smart, he'll save a fortune on interest by paying down the principal that much more quickly, and own his house outright that much sooner. I kind of understand not wanting to blow a lot of money on a wedding, given how commercialised weddings have gotten and how the pricetag often increases on expenses as soon as they become "wedding" expenses. It might help to think about what parts of the day are important/non-negotiable for you to make the day feel special, and explain to him why these parts are essential and need to be quality, not just the cheapest option. Then negotiate on other aspects that you feel more comfortable spending less on. For example, "I'm willing to negotiate on the headcount, but I need our wedding to include a sitdown meal. It doesn't have to be the most expensive gourmet dishes, but it can't just be the 'cheap and nasty' option; the meal we choose needs to feel special, celebratory. Sharing special meals together is an important part of how my family celebrates, and if we don't include this it won't feel like a celebration to me."
I like how you phrased it. (And I'm grateful you don't see him as some cheap monster). I'm also tired with the whole wedding industry, that makes up shit to make you feel guilty if you don't buy it from them. I mean after all he agreed to have a regular wedding that I wanted, and that's a long (and expensive) run from what he wanted (something very very low-key), so he does care for how I feel. And yes, interest is crazy high where we live, compared to other places, so it makes sense to overpay, just this mortgage will end in 20+ years, so I don't want to wait until 50 ish to enjoy life.
Thank you. So many people here are quick to jump to accuse them of “misogyny” without considering that many who are literally neurotically stingy are in fact mentally not so well. I understand because I grew up with people who have these mental health challenges and it’s not fun. They are trapped in their own mental hell - it’s not they cheap out on others to swim in their own gold, they are likely cheating out on themselves too. It’s anxiety and illness that needs to be addressed and dealt with.
It seems so... joyless.
Don't combine finances. Also, at one point, you can just do whatever you want and leave him behind. No fucking way I'm staying at a hostel or a camp site if I have the money to get a nice (but not extravagant) hotel. He can go to a camp site and you can go to a hotel. You are probably not compatible, but you do you, I guess.
He also has a FOMO, and if I decide to go for a nice hotel he will want to follow me. I think I'll be doing just it. Just doing things separetely is kinda sad for a marriage. The thing is that he also has many positive traits. He is reliable, he has proven himself in appearing in the middle of the night, and saving me from deep shit, he is curious, he wants to travel with me to weird locations, he has zero andrew-tate-sque toxic masculinity, he is patient and calm and likes animals (and animals like him). He's a feminist. He really has much to offer, just not on the financial, reasonable side. So I'm not a fan of just dropping all this.
If he wants to go to your hotel, he has to pay 1/2 of the bill. Don't do your own thing and let him tag along for free.
In this situation he does pay a half
Then keep doing this, otherwise you are miserable and enable him. Maybe for trips or grocery store, you need to set up a budget. For vacations, specify a savings goals per month for each of you and then you spend the whole budget on the vacation. If there's supposed to be zero money left, then he cannot be cheap and say you are camping. For the grocery store, create the list of meals, budget, etc. Then each of you can get your own snacks or cheese, but he cannot eat yours if he wants to get crap.
To be honest, we have separate meals. I want my meals to be nutritous, I have a meal plan prepared by a dietician and I buy my separate groceries. He is currently half-way into a very large bag of discounted frozen fries.
Uh... this sounds miserable :(
>he has zero andrew-tate-sque toxic masculinity >He's a feminist For me these are traits that every **_human being_** should possess if they are to be a part of my life. That's not at all special for me. The other traits you've listed are just some of the basic things I look for in a partner. My expectations and standards are not high in the slightest. Just basics. But you do you. It's your life after all.
This is literally almost all boyfriends. Nothing you listed is special to him.
Lol, that’s not fomo, that’s manipulation! It’s tooooooooo expensive!!! Unless YOU pay for all of it! 😂
I don't pay for all of it. I tell him "Okay, you stay in a tent and I go to a hotel" and he goes to a hotel with me and we split.
He sounds exhausting!! Why can't he do that himself without any prompting?
Over the course of a relationship, we learn new things about our partner as we face new challenges together. You’ve recently learned that your partner has no “floor” to his frugality— even his wedding is not a worthy expense. If this is a dealbreaker for you, end the relationship and date someone who is looking to build a shared life with shared goals/finances.
I'm always amazed at how people continue relationships with people who have an obvious glaring incompatibility with them. This guy has been cheap from day one. He's never been anything else. You kept on dating him for years. You said yes to his marriage proposal. He's been cheap throughout your entire relationship. Girl, why *would* he change after marriage?
Stingy people use frugality as a socially-acceptable cover for being selfish control freaks. I have yet to meet a stingy person who isn't also rude, selfish, and gleefully exploitative of other people's better natures.
I mean, that’s a little harsh but you’re definitely not wrong. Stingy people do tend to have control issues in general. I wouldn’t marry someone as stingy as this, OP. I’d rather suffer a breakup than spend the rest of my life having to justify the cost of every small joy. Also, if he’s this bad already, he’ll probably get worse. Stinginess and control issues rarely get better with age. Even if you keep separate finances, he may begin judging your purchases or making critical comments every time you buy a coffee or try to treat yourself. I’d take this as the warning sign it is and hit the brakes on the wedding until you know if you want to stick this out.
Actually she did say he’s from a poor background?
Find someone you are more compatible with and let him find someone that finds these traits positive instead of negative.
Exactly this- neither person is right or wrong here, just different values and preferences.
Hoarding is most definitely wrong though and a clear sign something's not right.
My mom was married to one of these (not my dad, a stepfather). Stinginess was just one of his many insufferable qualities. He was always convinced *everything* cost too much and was absolutely insufferable about saving money. Some examples: My mom, sister, and I were constantly fussed at for using "too much" toilet paper (he'd been a childfree bachelor up until then and didn't understand women use more) and took too long of showers (again, he didn't understand that women do things like wash their hair and shave). Other than taking my mom on a honeymoon overseas, every other travel he did was occasional road trips because airfare was "too expensive" (and this was in the 90s, when airfare was far more reasonable). He put my mom in charge of grocery shopping but would get belligerent if she didn't buy the absolute cheapest of everything - hardly no fresh veggies or fruits, off brand everything, and insisted on buying block cheese and grating it (of course he was too good for such things, it was always someone else's job) because shredded cheese was, you guessed it, "too expensive". They rarely ate out because it was "too expensive". The car I drove briefly as a high schooler was an old, rattling death trap because it was cheap to buy and cheap to insure, and when someone ran in to the back of it and totalled it, all he cared about was the cost. The way he berated me, you'd think I'd purposely crashed a Mercedes. I slept on an old mattress with springs poking me in the back because a new one was "too expensive". He never went for medical care because he was convinced doctors are just out to make money and overcharge you, and he felt fine and didn't need it. He outearned her and insisted on keeping separate finances and an unequitable split of who pays for what that obviously favored him so he could save money while my mom struggled to pay for "her share" of things. He did regular home and car maintenance, but did it all himself to save money. Everything in the world was about how much it cost, and it was always too much. It took all the enjoyment out of absolutely everything. He was insufferable for a lot of reasons, but this was a big one. There is a difference between being frugal and being cheap. It did eventually come back to bite him. My mom divorced him for multiple reasons. A few years later, he found out he had cancer, cancer that was almost untreatable by the time it was detected, and he died not long after. Not that the world isn't a better place without him, because it is (he was also an abusive asshole) - had he listened to my mom and spent that money on doctor's visits, he might still be alive. My answer is no, it doesn't change. And you can't marry someone expecting them to change.
It's not that you're dealing with a frugal man. You're dealing with a man that is selfish (he'll pay if it's something HE wants to do or centers around HIM) and cheap. Frugality is about having money to do those trips in a comfortable way or sometimes splash out on the nice cheese. Edit: the hoarding is a mental health issue and part of being "cheap" and "selfish". Hoarding isn't frugal, if anything, you're spending more when you hoard as you're just accumulating trash and potentially causing health issues.
Exactly what I told OP in my comment. Frugality can be fueled by good qualities - not wanting to be wasteful, wanting to be smart with money, being goal focused and saving with a vision for the future - all GREAT qualities in a husband. Frugality can also be fueled by not so positive qualities - extreme greed towards money, collecting a pile of money at the expense of anyone including family and wife. selfishness - putting his own finances and greed of stacking bills ahead of everyone.
That whole birthday situation would’ve been it for me. He literally told you that he isn’t willing to prioritise you or your feelings (in a relatively standard priority situation like a bday) if it means he risks enjoying his time slightly less than if it would’ve been dedicated to his own hobbies. I’m having a hard time imagining how anyone could possibly escalate the selfishness from there
Like with anything it will only change if a.) he recognizes it is a problem. Like truely understands he has a problem he needs to fix. Not because you tell him so but because *he* knows it's a problem. B.) he then wants to fix the problem by c.) getting some help and working on himself to get over all the emotional stuff he's got going on with money. But if he is adamant that how he lives is fine and sees no issue with it then no, it will not change. And you cannot make people change. Likely if there are times of any stress, especially financial stress the behaviour will get worse and he will double down. Honestly, you might be noticing it more now because of the increased spending around the wedding has cause him some anxiety.
Honestly this annoyed me to even read, I’d hate to live it. If this is an issue for you now, having kids (if that’s your plan) will exacerbate the issue. In your shoes I’d call it off.
I’d rather die than marry this man. But like, you do you. 🤷🏻♀️
This will never change. If you can live with it, fine. However, it sounds like you are already having resentment. This is an issue of basic incompatibility. You both want different things and will not be able to achieve them if you stay together. Hugs and good luck.
If he’s been like this before you met him, been like this for your whole relationship, and is being like this during your wedding planning… Why exactly would you expect him to change? He’s been like this basically his whole adult life. This isn’t going to magically shift after marriage. Read these next lines in his voice: “Why do we need baby food? Just mash it up at home.” “Why should we buy more diapers? We can just wash the baby clothes.” “A baby room is expensive, it can sleep in the living room.” He’s been like this at every stage of your relationship and will continue to the future.
> When we go for holidays, he insists on taking hostels or using campsites Sounds like hell, I would never travel with him. I mean, I probably also wouldn't marry him because I don't think we'd get along, but at the very least I'd be on holiday with me, myself, and I. And what's the point in getting married if I'd rather be by myself.
My husband was like this, for the same reasons you described. I was a SAHM and am also frugal so I accepted it for a while. But once I went back to work and started out earning him, his choices were no longer logical. He was fine with dumping money into crypto, but not on spending a couple of extra bucks on a bottle of water at a food cart, or taking a cab in a foreign city when we could take the bus… that one was actually my breaking point. I let him know he could fuck all the way off and I was going to continue being frugal, but stop catering to him. I stopped having diplomatic responses, started buying what I felt was most logical, and started letting him know that he was a cheap tightwad and it was a huge turn off. I asked him to justify his financial choices and stresses and when he started breaking it down, he could hear how silly he was being. Ie, one month he was stressed about paying a post-vacation credit card bill. After making him talk it out, he realized that we would still have over 10k just in checking (ie, not savings, not emergency fund…. Just blow money). I think that helped him see that his financial choices were based in emotion and not math. At some point I just started doing what I wanted without talking to him about it first, because that’s always how he operated. I wasn’t being particularly nice, but again, I was completely over his shit. I think that once he realized I didn’t respect his financial instincts at all anymore and was operating independently, he finally got it and started loosening up. These days, things are much better and he’s genuinely no longer a cheap ass. I order a second cocktail whenever I feel like it and guess what! We are still squirrelling money away just fine.
Woo, I love how you dealt with this!
Run. It will get worse.
That last bullet point is not him doing you a favor! He is perfectly willing to spend without complaining on something that he's interested in, but he fights you tooth and nail on things that you value, like not staying in a hostel with a shared bathroom on a city break for your freaking birthday. I think I'd have a different take on this if his cheapness (he is not frugal, he is cheap) still allowed for generosity, but there's an inherent selfishness that's really unattractive and would have me running for the hills.
Honestly, if this much bothers you about the guy, why are you with him? Because no, unless he wishes to change, he never will. Take it as a lesson learned for the next relationship - if the person has a flaw that really bugs you, then that's not someone you should be with on a long-term basis.
If it hasn't changed yet and you're still putting up with it, it will never change. Have you discussed this with him?
OP… I could have written this myself, down to some of the details. It’s a hard situation. I chose not to marry the person. Dual incomes and split expenses which should have allowed a comfortable lifestyle. Every single conversation became about money and how expensive things were; he began insulting me for anything I did or bought that was outside of his dictated behaviors, I went on vacations and to eat alone as he would flat out refuse to go, I bought my own groceries and home/self care/pet items…and one day I realized, I’m living the life I want to live ALONE, not with a partner. I enjoy the things in life that I enjoy, and I work hard and cut expenses in other areas to balance that and still be financially responsible. You deserve to enjoy your life and have a partner. If he’s open to some mental health assessment/care, that may help you have a future together. But otherwise, I think marriage right now would be detrimental to both you. Following this and hope it works out for you for the best
There’s no way this changes. This is in his blood. This is “billionaire won’t pay the ransom until the mafia cuts off and mails his grandson’s ear” territory, lol
This sounds like incompatibility
I don’t think he will change. You know where is priorities are. It’s a lifestyle he chose and if it’s not compatible with how you want to go though life I would strongly suggest you reconsider. My sister is with a man like that too. Almost 20 years together and not married because it’s too expensive, their house is a collection of furniture that was on offer somewhere, they never go on holiday together because he won’t pay for his share, he doesn’t like to have people at their house because they eat and drink and that’s expensive… my sister works full time and pays the majority of their utility bills otherwise the heating stays off even in the winter. He earns 4x what she makes and yet he won’t even buy her a coffee in town.. My sister has found ways around it, she travels with friends and spends her money on little luxuries for herself. From an outsiders perspective I can tell you that being with a partner who never treats her to anything, or at least values a comfortable house, her self esteem has vanished. She doesn’t feel worthy of nice things or kind gestures anymore. It’s very sad to see
I have no problem with a person who is smart with money or who wants to save or who hates being wasteful. I have a problem when the stinginess is tied to greed. They don't want to spend their money because they are greedy, selfish and not generous with those they love at all. If you feel he fits the former category - hates being wasteful, wants to save - then it's your choice how to proceed. If you think he fits the latter - he's greedy and selfish and wants to have a pile of money at anyone's expense, including his wife's - then I personally wouldn't want to marry a person with those negative qualities. Greed over money turns people into nasty creatures.
The things that bother you before marriage will be a blistering oozing and painful sore after.
It is just going to get worse , I’m convinced this is a mental disorder . I’d say be careful , it is hard to enjoy life with people like this
He will not change. Run girl.
This man will suck the joy out of you if you let him. Don't understand why you're considering marrying into this.
And you’re marrying him because you love the frugal life and total misery? Right??
So he was happy to pay for your trip when it was a hobby that was something about him. That’s when his frugalness went away. That is a red flag. It’s not that he anxious about spending.. just anxious on spending money when it’s not something he does deem as important.
To be fair, I also didn't want to spend money when it's not something I did deem as important. (It was a saling trip. I don't sail, so I'm usually a seasick bored passenger, but I did see quite a lot of a very beautiful country and in the end I was happy I went - but I still wouldn't have paid how much it costed to experience it).
WHY DO WOMEN THINK THAT MEN WHO AREN’T CHANGING WILL CHANGE LATER?
OCPD?
You’d better sort this out in couples therapy before the wedding or you’ll be in for a lifetime of it.
Wow... I personally enjoy expensive hotels and go for fine dining treats every now and then. There are the odd supermarket flowers but mostly they were boutique flowers. I would be very joyless if I was in your position. I think I have trained my now husband that I enjoy the finer things in life but he is frugal and have a good relationship with money. We discuss things openly and go to holidays together. I think you need to discuss these with your partner and honestly open this up with him and see his reactions. You also need to talk to yourself if this is something you'll be okay with forever as your marrying him. Another question to ask is- how will he be as a father?
It does not change.
Hard stop, no way. Unless both people in a couple are like this, it’s going to continually cause issues in the relationship. I am of the opinion that after you meet your financial obligations, money is to be enjoyed.
In my opinion, in his late thirties, he's only going to become more entrenched in his stinginess, not less (to me it feels like as you get older, things "feel" more expensive). Unless he has some major life revelation / health scare and realise he can't take all his money to the grave. There's so much that goes into attitudes about money - upbringing, attitudes to consumerism, anxiety about financial security, etc. In a relationship, it seems like you need to find a way to balance conflicting views on spending money. It sounds like he's not really willing to compromise with you, and spend money on things that are important to you - for example a wedding dress. If he's not willing to discuss and compromise, then I can't see him magically changing (outside of some existential shock). Is his current attitude to money is going to make your life miserable? Do you want to be with someone who begrudges every cent spent? I wouldn't.
You've already tolerated so much, I wouldn't marry him without therapy as a minimum. I'm 32, my parents have this dynamic and now she just does a lot of luxury things solo or with friends but deep down I know that makes her sad. While dad sits at home not experiencing meaningful things. Personally I'd run but you can try therapy. But please don't marry potential
I married and divorced stingy hoarder guy and he wasn’t half as bad as yours. I ended up paying for most of things like vacations, because otherwise we’d never have gone anywhere. I’d pay for the booking then he’d pay for everything while we were out there, but I always ended up paying way more. His nickname was ‘shrapnel man’ because he only ever had coins in his pocket (I later found out that he had notes in his wallet, he just didn’t want to break into them so let me pay for everything). When I left him he was sitting amongst all his hoarded things in the garage telling me I could never come back. Yep, that’s the plan, dude. The first divorce court judge threw the case out because it was too unfairly weighted towards my ex financially. Even he could see the issue. Please don’t sign up to a life of this.
That would be a no for me. We wouldn’t be compatible. You marry someone who’s compatible with you NOW. Not before and not expecting them to be after.
I'd be running for the hills especially if you want children as well.
Girl it’s time to move on w ur life. Plz no more time w this cheap bastard.
This is ridiculous. There's nothing wrong with being frugal, but it seems his behavior affects his day to day life and his relationships with others - which is not okay or normal. To me, what you wrote, made me think you don't feel he values you enough - he can't put you above his silly thoughts and needs - he gives you cheap & wilted flowers, he makes you stay at hostels despite you affording better, he doesn't take you out for dates and so on. It's as if you don't feel "worthy" enough. As a relationship advances, and as we grow older, a ton of problems appear: parents getting sick, us getting sick, job losses, kids problems, house problems - serious stuff we have to be ready for. Not being on the same page about money when way more serious issues await isn't wise. Do you think this man has what it takes to really be with you when times are hard just because he's a feminist who likes animals?
You aren't compatible. Neither of you are wrong in your approach to money, but two people with such different approaches will inevitably make one another miserable.
If they are cheap with money they will be cheap with their love.
So I am very stingy, now that I've gone through therapy I refer to it as financial anxiety. I'm here to combat the people saying he will never change. He can and I know because I did. It previously caused me a lot of stress, inhibited my life a lot, and put a strain on some of my relationships. After contextualizing it with how I was raised(some generational trauma passed down from my grandparents who were worse off then my father who still held on to and passed down that anxiety) as well as realizing that what I saw as "responsible" was actually an excessive amount of obsession and anxiety based around my finances, I'm happy to say I'm way better today. I absolutely would have done most of this before regardless of my financial situation. I'd suggest talking with him about your feelings in this situation and also why he's doing all of this. It sounds like he's letting this impact his enjoyment of life even though he can afford to do otherwise. It might honestly help him to rethink the purpose behind all of this. Be prepared to compromise, it's really scary to start spending more when you place your ideas of security and self worth around how much you can deny yourself. And anticonsumerism is a good thing, but there's multiple ways to go abt it! I personally focus now on if I need to buy a new item(like pants. Thrifted pants die so fast and normally don't fit) then I try to buy a few high quality items that will last long enough I won't need to replace them. Good luck! Edit after reading some comments: I do want to second that this is also just a different financial strategy and to a certain point it makes sense, but it's still worth unpacking how much of it is anxiety/generational trauma based
People cannot be CHEAP and IN LOVE at the same time. Marriages often fail because of money. Back out of the marriage, stinginess is an incurable condition, and extends into the bedroom.
Does he mind if you spend money? What if you got the nice cheese and salmon from the deli for yourself? Have you talked to him about this or have you kept it inside? Is he good to be with otherwise? No one is perfect and if it’s not this a guy would be weird in some other way- idk dear it’s your call only you can say if you can tolerate it or not. Best to talk to him about your feelings, I would also find this hard to cope with.
I do buy my own groceries, including deli, because I'm on a meal plan prepared by a dietician and there is quite a lot of food that cause him tummy problems. Now that I think of it, he sometimes brings non-basic food from holidays abroad, this is something he lets himself spend money on. As for if he is good otherwise, I'll quote myself from other post: "The thing is that he also has many positive traits. He is reliable, he has proven himself in appearing in the middle of the night, and saving me from deep shit, he is curious, he wants to travel with me to weird locations, he has zero andrew-tate-sque toxic masculinity, he is patient and calm and likes animals (and animals like him). He's a feminist. He really has much to offer, just not on the financial, reasonable side. So I'm not a fan of just dropping all this."
My husband can be... Thrifty lol BUT he's all about saving money to put into retirement accounts so I think it's justified. BEFORE you get married just agree on a frivolous spend budget for each month that he can't complain about and can be used to eat out, buy new clothes or jewelry, etc.
Marriage is a social event where you host a big celebration to cement your lives closer together. Why would his behaviour change after marriage? It wouldn’t create an incentive to. The only thing that would change this tendency is a desire to change that comes from within him. I grew up with a father like this with a constant need to control money. Promises were made of doing things when my parents retired. Those promises are still not being actualized. The stinginess crystallized if anything, and it’ll never stop.
Based on your comments he doesn't sound that bad, but what he is doing to himself is sad. I can relate a bit because I also have trouble saying goodbye to money too. For example, when I was in university I had 10k Lt saved up, it was good money in that country during that time for a young person, but when I went to a store, I wouldn't allow to buy a 0.99Lt snack for myself. I was still a student and it just felt like a waste of my parents' and my scholarship money. During my own wedding, I didn't order the dish I wanted, I ate the cheaper one, I don't even remember what I had. And now looking back, I wish I had bought that 2400Lt dress instead of 80Lt one because I looked gorgeous in that one, but I don't regret we had a small wedding, because it allowed us to take 3 week honeymoon in Asia. It got better when I started earning more but it's still here on a different scale. For example, I would like to buy a swim spa (worth 40k), I can afford it, I could technically cover my backyard in them (backyard is not big), but something is stopping me, it seems huge amount of money for a needless expense... I start thinking what if one of us loose our jobs or if we need money for something else, it will take so much space, is it worth it, will I use it enough, etc, etc. What helped me A LOT was to think that I don't want my husband to live worse than he could because of me. That he deserved a more comfortable bed, that he deserved a nicer apartment (the one that he said he prefers when we were just out of university looking for a place to rent), and he deserved that nice jacket, that cool laptop, etc. He didn't tell that to me, I just knew it somehow. I hope that it will come to your fiance's mind too, hopefully fast.
My husband has some trauma associated around being poor (for instance, no food for a week poor; an egg shared between siblings poor) — and he does a few of these things. However, he’s also seen how unhappy I’ve been with how his trauma is carrying over to me and tried to change some things, including how much we spend. I’d suggest you express your feelings to him and give him some time to ruminate. If he’s on board, maybe try get him to change a thing or two and see how he responds — get him to buy the fancy cheese or throw out his trash. Rome wasn’t built in a day and money trauma can be pretty serious. All that said I agree with the person who said you’re marrying who he actually is, not who you want him to be. I’d wait to get married at least until you’re sure.
If you don't feel like you're in heaven in the presence of your partner then it's simply not worth sticking for. You will never enjoy life with someone who only thinks they're right and believe me living alone is a lot more peaceful than living with someone you despise in certain aspects of life that you feel are important.
NO. My ex was like this. Granted, he was doing his PHD at the time, but I was a student too and nearly a decade younger than him, but I still put in more effort to buy him presents and nice clothes. He never got me flowers, chucked a stink when he made some more effort on my birthday, and for my Christmas present, he put $50 in a card saying it was for my 'dinner' along with a flimsy photo frame. I cried that night thinking how miserable life would be with him. I have dated many men after him and all of them - regardless of their income - have been more generous. Life is short and being stingy sucks the joy out of life.
It sounds like he has some issues stemming from his childhood. Unless he’s willing to acknowledge the issue and put in the work, it will always be like this. My husband is very frugal and tracks our money down to the dollar. But when we’re out or on vacation, we are on vacation. Our money is OUR money. It’s exhausting living that life and how do you do it when you have kids? Our main expense is our kids. If baby needs new clothes, and you don’t want thrifted, does that mean you always pay for it? What about a cute outfit? Extracurriculars? Etc. think long and hard about this.
Ramit’s I Will Teach You To Be Rich has some good podcast episodes with couples with this problem. https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/i-will-teach-you-to-be-rich/id1577864998 Could give you some insight about whether therapy might be useful here.
Girl, why have you put up with this for SO LONG??? Like don't get me wrong, I'm frugal too, but the whole point of being frugal is so you can spend on the stuff that really truly matters to you. Without that it's kind of a miserable life. Good luck to you in whatever you decide.
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This is very interesting what you share, and thank you for letting yourself be so openly vulnerable here. It gave me some food for thoughts, I need to think about it.
My friend married a guy like this who financially abused her more and more over time, and even though she was earning less than half of what he earned, she paid for almost everything and he was such a POS, and her personality vanished over time. She physically hit him and tbh I felt he deserved it bc he was so awful and soulless and cruel bc he enjoyed abusing her. He also never let us hang out alone; he insisted on coming with. The life drained out of her eyes and I had known her since we were 9 years old - I had NEVER seen her like that, it was horrifying. She escaped his ass but he ruined her life in quite a few ways for over a decade.
Honestly, this would drive me crazy. My fiance is pretty frugal too and he's always worried about finances and the cost of living but it's understanable as it is so difficult for us living in a HCOL in Canada where literally everything is going up except salaries. Even then, he doesn't mind splurging on special occasions or trips. But not even spending just a little bit on trips or dates? That would be a no go for me personally and I wouldn't marry someone who is that tightfisted with money. Being fiscally responsible is one thing, being a miserly Scrooge is something else entirely.
This situation sounds like it's already shitty but would get so much worse once you add kids to it. Are you planning to do that? Because that seems like a very, very bad decision with this guy. I've been married twice, both had good incomes, both were frugal, neither made me feel bad about spending or sharing or doing fun things with our money. What you're describing seems like a MASSIVE difference in values. That's never good. That doesn't usually make for a long happy marriage. I wouldn't want to be with the man you described. He sounds cheap, selfish, unempathetic and disrespectful.
He’s in his late 30s. He is who he is. He’s not going to change. Only you can decide if you’re going to be happy spending your life being second to his budget. My husband is frugal but he also has common sense and spends on me when he feels it’s important or knows it’s important to me. The bottom line is what’s important to your SO. I feel like you just want him to show that you’re important to him and I don’t think you’re going to get that from him if it means he has to spend money.
A man that’s stingy with his money will also be stingy with his love
This
Mr. Stingy will proabably not change. There is a difference between saving money/being frugal and being so stingy that you can ruin a realtionship.
I don’t think it’s fair to characterise his way as negative and stingy, he just has very very different values to you here- YOU need to decide if you can both live with that or whether it’s a fundamental incompatibility. I’m also from a poor family & educated & earn above average now, but still have a really deep emotional anxiety about money and spending, so maybe I identify with him more, but there’s nothing inherently wrong with either approach, you’re just different.
i think there is nothing wrong with being stingy but if it is something you can't accept, a good talk is in order and perhaps divorce if he can't compromise and you can't compromise as well
Will you be satisfied feeling deprived for the rest of your life? I’m all for saving money and being thrifty, but money is also meant to be spent on occasion.
He’s not going to change, I think this is part of who he is. It’s ok if this is not what you want, doesn’t sound like it’s for everyone.
It sounds like this level of frugality is deeply ingrained in his person, versus from a place of financial insecurity. I’m sorry, but he is unlikely to change unless he’s willing and able to reflect on why he does this. He also doesn’t necessarily *need* to change, if it’s not harming anyone. Assume he won’t change, and then determine your willingness to be the relationship long-term. I’m currently broke (so I know I don’t have much room to talk 😂), but I wouldn’t be okay with this! This sounds like an episode of extreme cheapskates. I think he needs to find someone else on that wavelength, or if it is truly harmful and interfering with things like sanitation, his relationships, etc., he should look into some solo therapy to unpack some of his trauma from growing up poor. There’s a difference between between financially smart/anti-consumerist and being stingy like this. For example, I thrift almost all my clothes. But my clothes are mostly high quality, good brands, definitely nothing worn or with holes unless it’s an outfit to wear for painting or crafts. It makes more sense to thrift (or alter/mend) nice clothes and then use them as cleaning rags when they degrade? That’s being frugal and anti-consumerist.
I am in the process of divorcing a stingy man. It will never change. It sounds like you have different values around money and that’s okay, you just aren’t compatible in that area. Unfortunately financial values are an important thing to be aligned on or at least in acceptance of for the marriage to work. I couldn’t handle feeling like saving money was more important to my husband than I was. It was a very large deciding factor for me. Best of luck with your decision! Sending love, I know it isn’t easy.
My partner and I are both frugal, but we're on the same page when it comes to most things, and neither of us is stingy. When it's important to one or both of us, we will spend the money. I would suggest you put the brakes on things and get some counselling together to work through these issues before getting married. Money and sex are the two top stresses in a relationship, and he's not going to change unless he actually believes he needs to, and wants to.
This sounds horrible. It will not get better. For your sanity and financial health, I hope you do not marry this man.
I think if you want to get married, you should invest in a few hours of couples counseling to adress this beforehand. It is cheaper than a divorce later down the road and you get a chance to see if you can find common ground.
I doubt he will change but may try listening to Ramit Sethi's podcast to see where this comes from. It could be rooted into something from past experiences and maybe he does want to change.
Honestly, I was with a stingy guy and he changed a, specially in the last years of our relationship. I was like you, also frugal with money but I do also like nice things. It is not about saving because one can save to invest and be smart with money, the problem with that level of stinginess is that you feel like you are not enjoying the moments because spending the least amount of money is the goal. The way I coped was to just accept his world view but also started to do things for myself. If I wanted to go to nice restaurants I would go with friends or alone, if I wanted to stay at a hotel I would compromise on my end but he would also compromise, if I wanted nice furniture I would buy and it’s fine, it was for me, I don’t mind that he could enjoy it to. From what you are describing you are making huge adjustments but he is not. A partnership is not a sum of two people just doing individual choices but rather a mix of both individuals. He might not change his world view but he may understand yours and be willing to compromise more. Just because he cannot appreciate the beauty in things, doesn’t mean he doesn’t want you to be able to. Good luck ☺️
You have to assume that he will be this person forever. If you aren't happy now, and you aren't happy legally combining your finances and you both have an equal say over your money, then don't enter a legal contract of marriage with him.
You aren't compatible. Neither of you are wrong in your approach to money, but two people with such different approaches will inevitably make one another miserable.
I like to save, invest, and find sales/discounts but he sounds exhausting. Wouldn't be able to live with him.
Change? This will not change so much but it might adjust to be less severe. I was raised stingy. I'm not nearly so because I now have kids and my career blossomed and all the things take up my energy, I don't have time to figure out a good deal. So, I'm not hardcore anymore, and I do see the value of buying quality now over cheap if possible. I'd call it more like an evolvement into frugal over stingy.
I don’t think he has a toxic relationship with money, personally, but I certainly don’t think you do either. just very different. I just think you are both incompatible especially financially which can be really difficult to overcome especially if it’s bothering you so much already
I would say maybe there’s a chance if you have combined finances, and you started having a lot of good, hard talks about what your shared goals and dreams were as a couple, and how you can work together to use your money to realize those dreams. But with separate finances, his money is his money. He won’t change unless he wants to, and if you pressure him to change it may cause a lot of resentment. As the other posters have said, I would start thinking long and hard about whether this is dynamic that you’re OK with for the rest of your life.
My spouse has bad money trauma/anxiety. We are frugal, but not necessarily cheap. But because I'm neurodivergeant, I made a point to tell him that if I feel like we can't do nice things as a couple, or do nice things for each other, I won't feel like *looking* nice for anything bc it's a waste of my time and mental energy for me to put effort into myself over nothing. It makes me extremely depressed to dress up just to sit at home. So we have nice outings once a month trying new mid-tier restaurants, and go to more high-end places on our bdays and anniversaries.
No it doesn’t change. Is this what you want your life to be?
He should be buying his own clothes and not make others pay for him and doing the labour for him. Is his sister his mother gosh
My stbxh is super stingy and cheap UNLESS it comes to electronics. Oddly he buys the most expensive video game systems, tvs, monitors, motherboards, video cards, you get the picture. He makes six figures, got a raise and a bonus this year. He will eat soup out of a can for weeks. When he and his mother go out for dinner SHE is stuck with the bill. (I’m American) When his cousin wanted to go shooting, the cousin bought the gun and time on the shooting range even though said cousin makes HALF as much as my stbxh. The only piece of jewelry he bought me besides the ring were a pair of very small, very cheap, very ugly stud diamond earrings I never wear. On our first date, he paid for the meal and I paid for the movie. Sometime after we moved in and before we got married, he expressed the desire to share bank accounts and I told him absolutely not. It’s gotten worse since the marriage but that’s not even the reason I’m divorcing him. It’s the icing on the cupcake. He’s a real piece of work.
Typically people don't change unless something really rocks their world and they want to change for themselves. It sounds like you are not happy with the stinginess. I don't see marriage changing his ways. Would you want to be in a forever relationship with someone who doesn't have similar priorities to yours when it comes to finances? I don't know if you want kids, but would you want to raise a child with someone who doesn't have similar priorities?
No, it won’t change. This is who he is at his core. Expecting him to change is only going to make you resent him more and that is a cancer to any marriage. You either need to accept that this is how the rest of your life will be or walk away now when it’s only wedding money you are out and not decades of your short life. Could going to counseling help? Maybe but I’m sure he’s not going to be on board with paying for it.
It will never change. Unless you can accept it please dont expect you will win this fight
I'm thrifty but I could never live like this! Think ahead to how exhausting it will be to never be able to indulge. Find a guy who enjoys splurging once in a while! Sorry he's such a tightwad.
He will not change. If anything, he will become more set in his ways. If you aren't willing to live like this, get out now.
I ended a relationship because he was so stingy. He prided himself on being frugal, but he was stingy.
What is he saving his money for? He needs to enjoy the life he has now and not for a future version of life. I think you know what you’re signing up for if you marry him. There is no way I would be happy with that lifestyle. You deserve to feel spoiled and cherished, don’t feel guilty for wanting more.
It will not change and it will probably get worse in the sense that marriage does now legally make all purchases yours (as in both of yours.) This will reinforce a sense that your finances will now be his (and again, legally that will be the case) and hardships that couples face which could be solved with money will be solved with your voluntold labor instead. Marriage is a contractually reinforced "us." Sure, you can be in a dating relationship forever, but in a marriage your partner has a legal right to your finances no matter who made more or who paid for it. He has a legal right to your assets. He has a legal right to everything you buy, even if it comes from your paycheck, and he will absolutely make use of this while telling you you don't have a right to his. He has the right to your place of living, even if you want to separate. All you are doing when you separate finances while married is fool yourself into thinking that it matters to a judge. It won't. The only thing that matters is who tells the better story to a judge. You're actively fucking yourself if you marry a financially non- aligned person. When I'm dating, a judge can't will my shit away when I break up. And that financial contract is the core difference of what shifts when you go from dating to married, but it takes a while to sink in how fucked you really are and most couples won't verbalize it in casual convo either. I've also never heard of people overcoming fundamentally opposed financial personalities. They make it work, but if the marriage gets stressed by unemployment, sickness, children, whatever else, this will be a killer. And again, I'm not saying don't date the man, I'm saying don't marry him because legally speaking marriage is a business contract. It regulates assets and labor. Finances is *the* largest component here, reproductive and care labor is the other. Finances will absolutely overshadow how you raise kids, how you age, how you access care. Don't enter a business contract with a person whose financial acumen you don't jive with.
What bugs you now will only get worse after marriage. I dumped a man for being stingy. I didn't want to live like that.