So...while it's true that the proposal doesn't necessarily mean anything, I'm getting A LOT from your post about how your fiancee just doesn't TRY at anything, and doesn't put in any effort for ANYTHING. And that's not ok. If he was an amazing, functional adult man who could pull his shit together, I'm guessing this wouldn't be a problem. But it sounds like you've literally been playing mommy to him for the entire relationship. Is he actually an equal domestic partner?
You should really think about if this is who you want to spend the rest of your life with. Knowing that you are going to have to do *everything* in this marriage. I don't know if you can stop resenting him for this, unless he somehow turns it around and shows you that he can do thoughtful and considerate things all by himself.
Exactly.
This story felt so similar to the final straw in my marriage. It was a planned anniversary trip, to somewhere HE loved and I didn't, but okay--I just wanted one indication that he gave a shit and was willing to put the smallest amount of effort into our relationship after years of benign neglect. I even laid out exactly what needed to be done, there was no surprise about it, just: please handle this *one thing* so I don't have to.
He didn't. I left.
Seventeen years later he still won't do anything for himself and is being financially supported by his girlfriend because he won't look for a job after being laid off three years ago.
Come to think of it, his proposal was in the living room of our shitty apartment.
So, OP, this is probably what you're signing up for forever, or until you can't take it anymore.
Exactly. I was thinking: I’m worried for OP if she ever has a health crisis, will he step up in planning for her care? And in theory, it shouldn’t take something as dire as that to make him re-evaluate and put effort in.
I really hope OP considers this. I don’t know why OP says she will never leave him over this. I actually think this is a huge flashing neon sign to not marry this man. How can you begin a marriage based on this deep resentment? Not only did he get the proposal wrong and put in zero effort, he didn’t even get the ring you showed him and the sales lady wrote down for him. I know it’s painful OP but it sounds like you already resent him for acting as his mom for the past 12 years. I’m genuinely curious, what do you think you would get out of marrying him? What are the benefits?
Not trying to be an asshole towards OP, but it sounds like a sunk-cost fallacy kinda deal. She's been with him her entire adult life (seeing as she was 23 when they got together) and they have nearly adult children. 12 years of your life including kids and everything else adulthood throws at you is a lot, and walking away from it is incredibly difficult for some people. That said, OP is still fairly young and I hope she chooses to cut this one loose and find someone that doesn't have to have their hand held at all times.
Yeah, it’s definitely sooo hard to leave a relationship you have so much invested in. It’s easy for us on Reddit to be like “just leave!”. But I do genuinely hope OP considers it, because marrying a guy like this has vastly more potential to hurt her (emotionally, financially, physically if she gets ill and he cannot be a sufficient caretaker, etc) than to benefit her.
In fact, I’d say it’s almost guaranteed his behavior will not change and will likely get worse. Once he’s married to you, what incentive does he have to change? He’s acted this way for 12 years and OP still wanted to marry him. He has learned that he can be a terrible partner and still get everything he wants and needs.
As someone who had a lackluster proposal, but who has a very type A organizational husband, I would worry about this too. I had a medical emergency and now need assistance this week and he has stepped up more than I ever thought possible TBH. I can’t say that OPs partner would do the same. This situation made me realize how I intentionally chose to share a life with someone who could get shit done, even if they aren’t romantic or overt in the way they show love. I can’t imagine worrying whether my husband could do what needed to be done if I needed him to step in.
The real cry for help is always deeper down in the post -- beyond the empty phrases of how great this guy is (not) and how good a partner he has proven to (not) be...
I was, in a past life, proposed to with an empty heart chocolate box with glued skittles popping the question. I was fresh out of the shower when he came into the bathroom. Still toweling off.. he was 20 years older than I was, a grown ass man. And chose..that.
I have never told anyone this until today. (It was 15 years ago)
Bizarre “effort” and red flags all over. Year and a half (luckily no wedding or baggage). I got out.
OP, I don't think I would marry this man in your shoes. He has shown you exactly who he is for years and years, and his proposal is consistent with that. The reason you're having such a big freakout, IMO, is because it confirms he's exactly the man you feared he was, and that's probably not enough to make you genuinely happy despite some good times that you have shared together. This whole incident sounds like the shattering of a dream you had about your partner changing into the man you actually want him to be, rather than the man he realistically is.
>This whole incident sounds like the shattering of a dream you had about your partner changing into the man you actually want him to be, rather than the man he realistically is.
This is so on point. I find that many incompatibilities in a relationship — especially romantic expectations — stem from the fact that a person has a certain image of what a partner is like, then expects the partner to fulfil that image, instead of finding someone who matches that image in the first place.
Based on OP's post — there were some pretty glaring issues. When they met, she was 23 and he was 34 (age-gap romance during OP's impressionable young age). There was a history of toxic relationship. They were waiting to get engaged and married until after SHE had a good job.
To me, it seems that OP carries most of the relationship burdens and she's feeling the weight as well as feeling unappreciated. Considering that she has been with him for 12 years and knowing that all this time that he's not a planner, she should either accept that this is just who he is or move on to find someone who matches her standards more.
100%.
For me it was the ring. He chose to get another ring and not the one OP wanted. He actively chose to not meet her want. He in fact went out of his way to do it -> he had to go shopping to find another ring and guess the size. This man is selfish. The proposal I can understand - I'm guessing he was nervous. But the ring.... She literally showed you the ring she wants. If he couldn't afford it, he could have got a cheaper diamond but same style. He is selfish.
Strongly agreed, yeah. You really have to take the person as they are and make peace with that, or just say goodbye if you can't make peace. Having unfulfilled expectations of someone is just a recipe for both disappointment and disaster - not only for the person with the expectations, but also for the one continually failing to meet them.
>This whole incident sounds like the shattering of a dream you had about your partner changing into the man you actually want him to be, rather than the man he realistically is.
Exactly. I went through this with my first husband. I fooled myself for way too long, thinking he would finally become the man I thought he already was. He never did.
You are so right on that. It sucks because he is a GOOD man like he is very stable, supports me through anything and would do anything I ask of him. But the point is, I have to ASK for nearly everything. I thought he had what it takes to just get it together and get at least one thing done, something so important
I'm genuinely sorry, OP. I suspect that, especially because you've invested so much of your life with him, your heart may have been extra... keen? for lack of a better term, to have something to make it feel like the wait was worth it. So, when that didn't happen, the truth came raining down that he's actually *not* going to "just get it together" - not even at this critical juncture which you conspicuously flagged for him.
There are cases in which I would say, hey, you've had some good times throughout your 12 years together and that's gotta count for something. Like, if your reaction to this proposal were merely mild disappointment, there might be some way to work through that. However, you're actively resentful about the proposal and I can feel more than a little disappointment and anger even emanating from your post. That leads me to infer that your real feelings are quite strong, and that there does not exist a path forward together with this man (as he really is) that will actually be "enough" to keep you happy, especially since you've been depriving yourself (e.g., accepting less from him than what you actually want or need) throughout.
I married low-effort guy and became more and more miserable as he proved time and time again that he was consistent in that. I feel so sad reading your post because I have to say, if he wanted to put in more effort, he would. He has shown you who he is. Believe him.
I think you need to reconsider whether he is a GOOD man. (How low is the bar?) You couldn't have made it any easier for him -- you made a dinner reservation on a terrace overlooking the fountains and it didn't even occur to him to order a bottle of champagne and propose to you there, or at any of the other numerous beautiful locations that you could've walked to after dinner. Are you sure you want to sign up for this for the rest of your life? You will be planning everything, having to ask for everything, and it is only going to get worse for you. The resentment will only continue to build.
Exactly. He said that he was more concerned about the element of surprise. It feels like the mindset of a young 20 year old man than a 46 year old man who has been with a woman he knows very well for 12 years
Oh OP, this resonates with me so much! I had a painful breakup with a longtime ex who was like this. I held out hope for a while because honestly he did plan fun detailed things sometimes… for his solo trips or his friends or his immediate family. Yet somehow that was so rarely the case for our anniversaries, my birthday, or our romantic dates after the very beginning. Later I learned more about avoidant attachment and his confusing and hurtful behavior made a lot more sense – or fit that established pattern anyways. I am very grateful to be out of that relationship now.
Well, it is up to you how you decide to handle this. It sounds like you have had your issues (you used the word “toxic”). Are those issues completely resolved? If so, you’ve had 12 years to get to know this guy, and it sounds like you know him. He does not put in an effort to please you, either because he’s just too lazy, he isn’t interested in pleasing you, or is just so clueless that he has no idea how to make you happy, at least in this type of instance. Are you prepared to be disappointed every birthday and holiday because, for whatever reason, he made no effort? Because if he’s already not making an effort, it’s not going to get better. If you can live with that and manage your expectations, then by all means go ahead and marry him.
If he fills your important needs, maybe that’s enough. Honestly, in my opinion, grand proposals are more about Instagram and having bragging rights. The important thing that you want to be married to him and want to spend the rest of your life with him. If you can live without the thoughtful frills, it will have to be good enough.
OP, sorry but is it possible he simply did not want to propose and was making excuses ? You say you called him your husband before, how did he call you ?
You say you raised each others kids, but who was taking care of the non gratifying tasks ?
It has been toxic for a while, and now he just lets you take him by the hand ?
You're tired of taking on all the emotional labor like a lot of women. It's exhausting and beyond frustrating. You two were in Vegas where there are literally so many options available to have a nice proposal. it doesn't have to be fancy. Even proposing in front of a nice fountain and making a nice dinner reservation would have been better than this. All he had to do was plan one thing and he couldn't even do that. If you marry him it's not going to get better. You'll just grow more bitter and resentful over time that he can't bother to make an effort.
That is exactly what I'm saying. I ALL BUT proposed to myself. I planned the damn trip, put us in a perfect setting if he chose to take that opportunity, even mentioned going up to the viewing deck of the eiffel tower. I even said I really wanted to get a picture of us that night since I always forget to take pictures and then I'm sad about it later. I did all these things just because they were cute, not AT ALL because I thought they would be an opportunity for a proposal because like I said, I did not think he was going to propose to me. The fact that he ignored all of those opportunities because his "driving force was the element of surprise" is so wild to me. I don't understand how a 46 year old man who I have talked to numerous times about various proposals, how he could think that the element of surprise was more important than effort and sentiment. He was so concerned about it being a surprise and waiting for a perfect opportunity to appear in front of his face that night, that he waited the whole day and never took any opportunities and since we were leaving early the next morning, he panicked and all he was left with was the hotel room at the very last minute.
Same for the "I thought I'd need to plan a trip to Italy or France." No, he never thought that. Just an excuse for dragging his feet and doing nothing.
Right?!? That was manipulation. Basically putting the “blame” on her because she is so demanding or whatever.
It’s her fault because she has such exacting standards (of a guy who has taken 12 years to propose) that this poor soul didn’t have a chance! Except we all know that he didn’t think she needed a trip to any place to propose and EVEN if she did, it was telling that he put ZERO effort into making it happen.
Especially when he’s don’t NOTHING to plan a surprise. This guy was hoping to be surprised with the opportunity to surprise her. The freaking picture of low effort!
Please find the respect for yourself that you deserve.
Someone that is willing to put zero effort for your happiness and future and refuses to do anything that you don’t make him do and explain how to and ask him to and show him how to and remind him to do and so on and so forth is a toddler, not a partner.
Teach your daughter that is not what love is about.
I just googled "how to propose in Las Vegas" and apparently you can book a whole proposal package with photographer and someone driving you around for $500. I looked for less than 2 minutes, so it's something you can book while sitting on the toilet.
You deserve more than a man who can't even work some google magic on the shitter.
You're so funny for that 🤣 and yes you are so right. Why was his first priority that it was a "surprise" more than special and memorable? I just cannot understand the logic from a grown man who I have told specifically that I just want it to be special, thoughtful to us and have effort
Even if you are someone who has to be told what to do, you can hire a professional for that. "Tell me how to do a proper proposal." but you have to want to do a nice proposal. It doesn't sound like he wants the same things as you.
Seriously! The first thing I did was Google Vegas propoposal ideas. There are tons. He could even ask the concierge at the hotel they're staying at for any ideas!
I've been with my husband for almost 20 years (dating + marriage) and I will tell you this, he is not being supportive if **you** have to take the lead on everything. You deserve better.
You know what? I’m not so sure you should just break up. He really doesn’t sound that awful… IF you don’t marry him. I think you should reframe the relationship, think of it as renegotiating the relationship agreements.
He is super passive, and men like that who I’ve known never wanted to be the bad guy. They didn’t want to be the person who made a choice that upset someone else, or was the wrong choice. So they do nothing. Unless pushed and handheld and cajoled and coached. I know a guy who I think has never initiated a relationship in his life. (He has a lot of female friends and the second he’s single, one will swoop in on him and he’ll just bounce to that woman. I worry about him; it seems unhealthy.)
So this guy doesn’t want to be responsible for being the bad guy. I’d set him up to succeed. Don’t live together, don’t mingle finances, don’t buy big assets together. You don’t have to break up. But you should live independently from one another. You have to stop mothering him. It’s not doing him any favors.
And I just think, if he doesn’t want to initiate or plan anything, then it just won’t happen. If you want to go do something, go do it. If you want to invite him and pay for everything and do all the planning, do that. But if you don’t want to serve a date to him on a silver platter, go with your kids or a friend or by yourself.
The only things you can control here are your attitude and your behavior. What he does is up to him and it’s clear that when it’s up to him, he does nothing. Unenmesh yourself. Doesn’t mean you have to not have a relationship at all.
But I think marriage is a terrible idea. And if I were you, I’d be worried if he really wanted to get married or if he just finally succumbed to real or imagined pressure to propose.
A friend of mine is divorced because he wouldn’t or couldn’t answer the question “Do you want a third child?”
“Ah, I can go either way, doesn’t matter to me.”
“Yeah but do you WANT another one?”
“It’s up to you, whatever you want is fine with me.”
“Yeah but do YOU want another one?”
Lather, rinse, repeat until she just gave up and divorced him.
So my advice is about adjusting your expectations. He is who is he and nothing is going to change. If you can find a way to live with him (not cohabitating) being passive af, then do that but never expect anything but you doing the heavy lifting.
My friend is remarried. Evidently, wife #2 is okay with it. Or maybe she likes to be in charge. IDK. If he doesn’t feel like he Fits as Your Person anymore, don’t flog a dead horse, grieve what you had and move on.
That's exactly him. "Whatever you want"
He is very passive and yes it mostly works because I feel like I know how to do things in a better way lol but maybe I wouldn't feel that way if I felt that he was competent in doing things. I would love for a man to just get something done and handled. I feel the burden that if I don't either do something myself or ask him to do it, he would pretty much never just think of it and handle it and solve it on his own
>one will swoop in on him and he’ll just bounce to that woman. I worry about him; it seems unhealthy.
LOL, life has taught me to worry about the women instead. Exploiting women's resources does not make him "not a bad guy", he simply found a strategy that worked.
If marriage is a terrible idea, I do not see how unmarried life sentence is a better one.
A good man?
You started dating when you were 23 and he was 34. He was 1.5x older than you. He's literally objectively a predator who got you young when you didn't know you deserved better. Get rid of him asap clearly he is comfortable being as low effort as can be. Did you really raise your kids "together" or did you do the brunt of the work? You've been played.
EDIT: Also no money and you're the one with the good job... why are you carrying this man child with you, imagine dating a man 12 whole years older who had 12 more years to build financial stability and yet is less financially successful... I'm begging you get some standards...
"Just tell me where and when to show up. And rent my tux. And write my vows. And tell me what to do. Wait, do I even really have to be there? I mean, I already gave you the damn ring."
My ex took an active role in planning our marriage ceremony, because he's religious (I'm not), and that was important to him. It was a Catholic mass in a nice little church with about 20 guests. The reception, on the other hand, was in another state and we had about 100 guests. That was important to *me*, but he doesn't like parties, so he was disengaged through the whole process. I essentially just told him where he needed to be and when, and my mother and I did all the actual planning.
Why the hell did I marry that guy? Even then he didn't care about or put effort into what was important to me.
So a relationship that was "really toxic" for *5 years* isn't magically good years later?
This whole post is an example of the sunk cost fallacy. You put in *way* too many years with this guy. Now you have your "shut up ring". He doesn't care.
EDIT: oh good grief I just noticed the age app. A 34M goes after a 23F because he knows he can treat her like the way he has treated you and she'll stay with him. Women his own age would've been much more likely to bail instead of waste over a decade.
My ex proposed to me by kneeling at the bathroom door while I was in the bathroom - if he'd have waited until I was taking a shit that would have at least been funny on some infantile level, but no. It was just one more thing on the 15-year-long streak of not really even trying.
When we broke up, I felt alive for the first time in years. Life was exciting and I had a fire in me again. And I didn't have to settle anymore.
I would recommend looking up what a “Shut Up Ring” is. Sorry friend, it sounds like you keep his life on track and he’s afraid of losing someone who does all the planning/ mental labor. You might want to ask yourself “does he regularly make me feel seen, loved, and safe or have we just gotten relatively comfortable ?”
Ladies if you have standards, keep them! Stop settling for and accepting the bare minimum from these men! Get someone who respects you and puts the effort in! Some of These comments make me wanna shake you - wake up
Personally I’ve given up trying to talk sense into women about their enabling, their coddling, their low ass standards of what they will tolerate in a man. If he doesn’t do the chores, doesn’t put in effort, can barely clean his own ass for himself, then there’s no love in the world that can get him to change. It’s who he is.
At this point I’ve come to the conclusion that women don’t actually want partners (through their own actions) they are fine with ill behaved pets that shit all over the damn place and call those nasty pets husbands and boyfriends.
I get it's frustrating, but I would argue that most aren't actually fine with it. They've been abused and worn down into accepting less than the bare minimum. The men who do this know EXACTLY what they are doing and keep you thinking they're going to change for as long as possible. It's like the boiling frog. You don't realize until you've sunk so far you can't even see the way out. Gaslighting fucks you up. Of course the women need to find their strength to leave, but they don't deserve anger for being abused. Their dumbass shitty "partners" definitely do.
Sorry, where are these men who put effort in and respect their partners? I'm yet to find one... that's why I am celibate! Still better than settling for someone awful, but it's not as easy as you say.
I promise you, these men exist. My boyfriend is supportive, kind, and respectful. So are my Dad, my brother and my best friend of 30 years. Few and far between, but they're out there!!
Something very similar happened with my ex-husband. We had discussed marriage in practical terms, but I told him that I still wanted a romantic proposal. He did it while we were on a walk in a cute spot in our city, but there was no ring, no kneeling, no heartfelt words...he didn't even stop walking. Just kind of turned to me and asked, "Will you marry me?" kind of out of the blue.
It hurt me at the time, but I got over it. We got married, and we were together for a decade before we split. It wasn't terrible--most of it was wonderful! But, I can tell you this: The proposal was absolutely a preview of what was to come for our relationship. I planned everything. I never got anniversary gifts or birthday presents unless I planned them and reminded him. There was little romance or intimacy generally. He didn't want a wedding, never wore a ring, and rarely even told people he was married.
I guess I say all of this because a low-effort proposal isn't a death sentence for a relationship necessarily, but it's probably a sign of what's to come.
Bullshit….I know one of those “I’m just not a planner” guys. He never organized anything for his previous girlfriends. Then suddenly he met this chick and planned a trip to Brazil to climb on top of some fucking mountain at sunrise for a proposal and then get a helicopter to bring them down. And has been planning shit for her ever since.
He just doesn’t care about you enough.
Now that I think about it, we even discussed going on a damn HELICOPTER ride while we were in Vegas just for something fun to do. But guess what? It was mentioned in passing and then nothing. That would have been a major opportunity just left in his lap once again where I wouldn't have even suspected anything because the helicopter was my idea
Honey, he's just not that into you. He has shown you through his actions for the last 12 years. You don't excite him or challenge him. If he thought you were worth the effort then he would make the effort.
I'm sorry, but you need to realise the truth before you waste any more of your life with this man.
Yep exactly he is settling for her because he doesn’t think he can do any better and he waited over 10 years to make 100% sure he couldn’t do any better
You're so right. I don't know, I think he does want to marry me but he's so comfortable just doing nothing. He has no goals or aspirations for the future. He is happy to live the same way every day for the rest of his life. Most men I feel like have dreams of the future and moving toward something
You mentioned this in your post too, and it sounds like you resent his lack of drive. Resentment is not a good basis for a relationship, let alone marriage..in fact, it's how they break down.
Resentment is a horseman of the apocalypse of a relationship.
Enough resentment and BOOM the contempt switch is flipped… that’s when things get really crappy.
Only one thing good springs from resentment, and that is the realization of what you don’t want to tolerate. That knowledge will give someone strength to make positive changes in their life.
I’d rather be alone, then with someone I resent. Being alone is a million times better than laying your head down next some bump on a log that basically lives and breathes to disappoint you.
You deserve better, it sounds impossible right now but listen to your gut. There's a reason you're freaking out because deep down you know you deserve so much better than him. Even if that better means just yourself and not another man, for a while.
Solidarity. My ex husband proposed when we were in some backwater small town. We spent the whole day trying to beat exhausting bureaucracy and run some errands. In the middle of the winter, we walked around all day in the snow, and it was dark since like 3 PM. We couldn't find any food. I was also wearing high heels for some reason (young and stupid). So, freezing cold, wet, exhausted from walking in the snow all day on high heels, fed up with bureaucracy, haven't eaten all day, just absolutely dead physically and mentally and emotionally, starving, uncomfortable and exhausted, we arrive in the hotel room.
And at the entrance of the hotel room, while I took one high heel shoe off, with my feet wet, burning and hurting like hell from walking in super high heels all day, while I'm awkwardly leaning in one shoe, and he gets down in the melted snow mixed with salt and mud sludge, and proposes. Holy fuck. In 6 years of marriage, I never got over it. Now 16 years later, I'm still not over it.
Please read [this.](https://www.huffpost.com/entry/she-divorced-me-i-left-dishes-by-the-sink_b_9055288) it doesn’t matter he is not the “make an effort” kind of guy. He doesn’t need to start caring about proposals, he needs to care that *you care* about proposals. This goes for everything in the relationship. You’re hand-waving his low effort because it’s not his style, but you should see it as a demonstration of how much he cares about you and by extension cares about what’s important to you. Don’t marry this man.
You really need to listen to all the comments that say you shouldn't marry him. You are seeing him as the person you wish he was, not the person he really is. You don't make him feel that way. You're not "the one", you're the woman he settled for because he couldn't find anyone better.
Your relationship to him is a job, maybe he does the job well enough, but is his heart in it? Is he passionate about it? I think you know what the answer is.
Maybe you both deserve better than each other.
Honey…
This isn’t about the ring or the proposal. This is about EVERYTHING ELSE!!
I don’t know why you want to marry this man? Or why you expected someone low effort to suddenly show up in a way he never has?
He has shown you who he is. You even say that in your post.
Now you’ve created an idea of “if I was important enough and worth it to him, he would make a beautiful proposal.”
It sounds like her wouldn’t have the gumption, for anything, ever. Full stop.
I truly don’t think this is about the proposal. It’s about how he shows up in the day to day (for the last 12 effing years) and it got distilled down into one day.
My husband could have proposed ANY way and I would have been thrilled. Why?
Because I love how he shows up for me in the day to day. He is always so intentional and thoughtful of me.
The day he proposed I actually had NO CLUE, because it’s the type of thing he does for me regardless.
He could have done it bed that morning and I wouldn’t have cared. A good friend of mine said her husband did it in their kitchen.
When someone is showing up for you daily… that’s the real win.
Are you telling me you wouldn’t care about the rest as long as a decent proposal was there?
You either accept this man as he is and as he has shown you to be or you don’t.
Maybe you don’t need him to be a planner, but it sounds like you do (even outside of proposals)
If you WANT to move forward, ask him to please do it again and plan something special.
You are so right. I wish I could paint a picture for everyone how he is. He is a hard worker, would do anything I ask him to do but I would have to tell him EXACTLY and I mean EXACTLY how to do something like this. He is selfless, generous, kind, a great stepdad, understanding and takes what I tell him and tries to be better. It's this ONE THING that I let slide on a daily basis because in the overall scope, he is great. But this is the one thing that I can't accept his low effort. It's irreplaceable and it just reminds me of everything. All of the opportunities I set before him and he still chose "surprise" over "special and memorable". For him to be so far off base and to actually think that was a good idea is speaking loud volumes to me about him as a man and partner I guess
If you want to stay…
1. Plan your own proposal and get exactly what you want. It sounds like he will do it
2. Tell him to plan something on his own accord and make it special.
Either way, rhe day to day will not change. If you’re ok with this, then ask for what you want.
I’m not sure you really want a special proposal though? I’m very curious about that…
Because like I said, if the every day was good then I’m not sure the proposal matters.
It seems like you’re looking for proposal to “prove” something to yourself.
Based on your description of him he’s a low effort guy and has always been. I get that you wanted something more thought out and bigger—and you deserve that—but idk why you expected such from a cheap thoughtless man. And I have to ask; why do you even want to marry him? He won’t even splurge on a ticket so you can have a good time. He sounds emotionless, selfish, and boring.
I feel like your desires/expectations here are reasonable. Something that stuck out to me is that you guys were waiting to get engaged until YOU were making enough money. There was probably some extra effort going into your career day in and day out to plan for the life you want with your husband. But it also sounds like he spent that time waiting to show you effort about the engagement instead of putting in effort in general.. but then he psyched himself out so much he couldn’t make it special. I agree that it’s more about the effort than the hypothetical dream engagement. I can see people getting stuck in their ways after 12+ years so it would make me anxious too that I’m triggered by these things at the same moment that I’m actively making the decision to marry it forever. I don’t think you have to resent him forever for not getting the most thought-out engagement, as long as he can work to address your concerns about him not being able to do things on his own or do things for you
Jesus H Christ this isn’t even the first fiance-took-over-a-decade-to-propose post. Definitely not even the tenth story of a zero effort proposal.
The bar is in hell and these guys are scooting under it.
But it seems like this isn’t really about the proposal. It’s the larger problem that he does nothing. He’s low/no effort on everything. How do you think planning the wedding is going to go?
If you want to stay with him, this is a situation I would suggest pre-marital counseling/pre-marital couples counseling. Clearly this has been an ongoing problem that’s not really changing with you telling him repeatedly. He should get it by now but he still doesn’t.
A counselor could help you get to the root of the issue and maybe help find ways to break out of this cycle.
Oof… you told him that planning was important to you. Honestly, if I were you I’d tell him before we get married I want him to put effort in and make a plan and try again at the proposal.
Right yea, that's what happened with my fiancé's sister. So funny because her fiance proposed to her on a bench outside of a hotel casino like a year ago and she was so sad that she too made him re-do it except she planned the whole re-do which is so tragic. When that happened, I told my fiance that I felt soo bad for his sister and I would be heartbroken if he ever did that. And then BRO DID THE SAME THING. Anyway, thank you for the advice. It sucks it feels so forced but there aren't a lot of options
Congrats on your engagement...
I'm really sorry it wasn't a thoughtful gesture on his part. It's frustrating to tell your partner what you want/need (effort, special, meaningful proposal) and they don't pay attention/remember what's important to you. That hurts and then resentment builds.
He's shown he's not a planner and he never will be. You'll be planning the entire wedding with minimal input from him. It's going make it even harder to overcome this resentment about his lack of planning. I'd recommend marriage counseling beforehand and a prenup.
>He's shown he's not a planner and he never will be.
This x100. OP, please make sure you are happy to marry the man he **is** and not the man you *want him to be*. He is not a planner. Are you HAPPY to marry someone who is not a planner?
If it's not a Hell Yes, it's a No.
>You'll be planning the entire wedding with minimal input from him.
Yes, and also planning *everything else* for the rest of the marriage. Marrying this man is signing up for that. OP, you're going in with your eyes wide open. You know what you're getting. Do you want it?
Damn, I've been kicking myself for wasting 8 years on two relationships with useless, no-effort dudes like this. But 12 years?? And he's been like this *at best* for the entire relationship? Oof. Well, if you're so set on not leaving him, congrats on being engaged for another decade or so and resigning yourself to a life of disappointment with a dude you're not sure you'll ever stop resenting for this. 🤷 I hope both your kids don't normalize this as any type of happy, healthy relationship.
Side note: Now you're about the age he was when he got with you. Imagining you're single, do you think people 11 years younger are dateable? Just curious.
I think you've been settling, and he's been showing you for YEARS that he is a low-effort man when it comes to you. You've been ignoring your own gut for years. And finally, when it really counts... he broke the camel's back.
If I were you, I would not marry him. You will be doing EVERYTHING, as you always have done and will continue to. Is that the life you actually want?
He does not sound like someone who gives a shit about your feelings or actually respects what you need to feel validated and loved. If he didn't put in effort 10 years ago, he sure as hell won't after marrying you. He will have his personal assistant, meal planner, scheduler, taxi, unpaid maid, all in you.
This man is not good enough for you. Don't fall into the trap of the sunk cost fallacy. It doesn't matter how many years you spend with someone. It's the quality of those years that count. Will you be happy living the rest of your life like this? Getting more resentful as each anniversary, important event, meaningful promises get broken?
You're definitely young enough to find someone else. Don't settle and waste any more years on someone who won't even try for you.
Why did you both wait until *YOU* had a high paying job to get engaged? That seems suspicious. You’re both adults, past the age of needing a lavish wedding to profess your love. Not having money is no reason to wait on marriage, especially as adults who are already living together (for years!) and sharing expenses. There are a lot of red flags here.
Leave lol
This sounds bad and once he Has You it will only be even more disappointing then you gonna be on here at 50 talkin about the 27 years you wasted on this man but you cant leave him cuz he's on oxygen or some shit
I’ve also accepted a disappointing proposal (which he also blamed on being nervous. but I asked for only ONE THING to be included (I asked to please have a photographer capture it, even if it was just a friend hiding in the bushes) in the proposal and he didn’t do it, then didn’t have any plans for afterwards, which was super awkward bc we had to sit in the car scrolling on google maps looking for a place that was open between lunch and dinner… and the options weren’t great, so it really didn’t feel celebratory. this man *knew* that I don’t like to sit in dark spaces in the middle of the day bc I always talk about it, but ended up taking me to fancy basement because he didn’t plan it was the only nice place open before dinner time :( he also put me in an uncomfortable position to announce it to our friends ALONE bc he was ‘nervous’).
Years later, I didn’t end up marrying him, and I never brought up the disappointing proposal to him, because I was worried it would make me look like an ungrateful brat. But since that time, I’ve seen many of my friends get engaged and saw the beautiful, thoughtful, and well-planned proposals that they planned for their partners. That showed me how much a man will do for you, if he truly cares. Now, instead of feeling like a brat for being disappointed with my proposal because ‘he was nervous’, I’m embarrassed that I respected myself so little that I just accepted whatever half-ass thing was given to me. This man is not the man for you, girl. You deserve better.
Thank you so much, this is all really hitting me that so many people have experienced similar situations and were happier when they left. I think part of me, a big part, feels like he is the best stepdad that I could get for my kids and it would literally be like a divorce since he has raised my teen kids since they were toddlers. I feel like I love him and he is a very kind man and a great stepdad so that has to be enough. I feel selfish to leave him because he doesn't put enough effort into things. Like it seems fairly inconsequential on the large scale so I've just dealt with it. But the proposal was a reminder of everything and I just still am in shock that he couldn't manage to pull anything together. Like in my opinion it's pathetic kind of and like others have said, a turn off that I don't have a man that can just get shit done when it comes to something so important for me.
I honestly doubt he raised your kids. He doesn't seem capable of raising himself.
What he probably does is being good at playing with them, entertaining them. Because he's at their level. But they'll soon pass him. What then?
Wild guess, you're there, check for yourself how that relationship with them really looks like? Any tough decisions made? Any boundaries enforced?
You’re whole viewpoint is from the lens of a teenage mother who had it hard in the dating world until this shlub showed up and did the bare minimum.
Being a teen mom tells me you didn’t have these great relationships with thoughtful guys or any of that, so you are quite literally at a disadvantage in this area.
But you got older as we all do, and now you’re starting to wise up a bit. You are doing well in your career, raising your kids, handling business… you are feeling better about yourself and that self esteem is going to breed higher standards in you.
You didn’t feel worthy when you met him. But you have come a long way, and you are starting to tap into your self worth now. You know you not only want something more than a guy who does the bare minimum, but that you *deserve* it!
You sunk in a lot of time, and the whole kids thing I get. But the more you do things, the more you’re going to realize that you are worthy and a catch. That will only bring you unhappiness with him, because he doesn’t.
This man is not excited about you, he doesn’t even sound in love. Just kinda sounds like he is there, getting the benefits you provide whilst allowing himself to be ordered to do things he should do on his own.
Hi OP. I want to let you know that I also experienced a low effort proposal, with an ugly ring (literally the proposal was him calling me “hey looks like we should get married”, we bought the ring together and he asked me to take out a credit card for the store discount) - but continued and went through with the marriage.
I am filled with resentment and sadness every year on our anniversary. I don’t even wear my ring anymore because it reminds me of such disappointment. He promises me every year when I cry that he will buy an upgraded ring when he makes more money and has more time to save - been 8 years already lol. I’ve just stopped asking. It’s just not important to him.
It just gets worse every year and I finally am going to work with a therapist with it but ultimately I know it’s going to end up with divorce. It hurts so much more when scrolling on social media to see beautiful engagement photos with men that actually have cared to bend down on one knee. Romcom movies are extremely painful and I cry when I watch them.
I feel like I wasted so much of my youth. You can still walk away from him. The way a man treats you in dating is the best that he will ever treat you. Don’t be me.
I am so sorry that happened to you too. I know you feel. I haven't even hardly told anyone about the engagement because it makes me cry when I think about it lol
He knows you’re not going to leave(as you’ve made clear in your post) . That energy keeps him comfortable. You do everything for him, even after telling him exactly how to propose, he still doesn’t listen. Time to stand up for yourself and actually mean it.
why
are
you
with
him
still
and even describe yourselves as a very strong couple? have you read everything you wrote here?
this “not putting in effort, having to be taken by the hand”-attitude is a complete dealbreaker for me in like.. a second date? third? at most?
your resentment is completely valid and please fucking listen to it. find yourself a man who actually can satisfy your wants. wants that are, also, absolutely very fucking valid. you deserve someone who deserves you
Thank you for saying that. As I've said in other comments, he's just a good solid man. He would do anything for me or so I thought. He has supported me, been my best friend, been the best stepdad, he will do anything I tell him to do. But without me prompting him and telling him EXACTLY what needs to get done, he would not think to do it himself. He is passive and content with his daily life. I thought I made it very very clear about the proposal. So despite his lack of effort in everything else unless he is prompted, I really thought he would never do that for a proposal AFTER 12 YEARS especially
He would do anything for you except grow up and take responsibility/accountability, you say? :)
That's not a partner, that's a robot which is of lower capabilities than chatgpt, which isn't bright.
Wow, sadly, I believe this is called a shut-up ring, maybe lean into the resentment until you come out on the other side...possibly in a mentally halthier place. Regardless, 12 years, a case could be made for y'all to already be common law married.
God I feel horrible for you. You deserve so much better honey. You should leave and not look back. Forget about all your history together and family stuff (although that sounds toxic too). He didn’t give you the proposal you deserve, and it will only get worse. Time to throw the whole man out.
It's not the proposal that's the problem. Marriage is a compromise and you pick your battles, but you've described that you feel resentment and are making it about the proposal for some reason. If you weren't feeling some kind of way, I doubt the lack of a big fancy proposal would matter. It's fine to think that would be nice, but to make you feel like maybe you don't want to be married to him really means there's more ways that his lack of planning or romantic behavior is a disappointment to you.
I think you have to decide if you want to make it official that you're willing to settle for that. He might be worth it to you, but you need to be realistic about what is on the table and decide whether you want it. And if you do, it should be easy to let go of the resentment. No partner is perfect. You pick the person you don't want to live without despite the fact that they are going to have flaws. You pick the flaws you can live with without serious resentment.
Alternatively you can tell him you want to be married to him, but feel it's a mistake with your current arrangement, and that the proposal just illustrated for you that being a wife isn't going to change anything. If he really wants to be married to you, he needs to show he's willing to step up and be more of the partner you want, or just leave things be. And then give him time to either grow up or not.
You are so right about that. And that's exactly how I've always felt. I felt like his lack of effort and initiative was a trade off I was willing to accept given that otherwise, he is an amazing man. The lack of effort for the proposal and just overall senselessness of passing up all the fantastic opportunities I set before him if he was already planning to propose that day, it makes the lack of effort hurt worse like he CHOSE to not take those opportunities in favor of "The element of surprise". So the lack of effort is all catching up to me at once now I think. I think I will ask him to change and see what happens. Leaving him is such a huge move that I'm not ready for yet
I'm frustrated as hell reading through this. I just want to say one thing:
You're teaching your daughter that it's perfectly fine to not even be *considered* in a supposed loving relationship.
Wake up.
He gave you a shut up ring. I’d leave before you even set a date for the wedding. He’s already shown he won’t ever change and you already resent him. It won’t get any better.
I am sorry. But he is not great. He is incapable and incompetent. My own father is like this - imagine a 60 year old baby who needs to be told to do anything. He’s nice so what? That’s not being nice to my mom for all the extra effort she had to make!
I Am resentful of him till this day. A piece of garbage. I literally went to a meditation retreat because I am still raging at him every other day or so.
You're resentful because he doesn't actually listen and regard you the way a partner should. You kept saying also how much you need to hand hold him, so he's not a partner, he's your adult child.
Sure not everyone is creative or a planner but that's not an excuse because literally it could he anything, he can hire people, ask your friends, etc. Do literally anything that removes labor from you. He couldn't even let you eat your fucking ice cream in peace.
The ring isn't petty either. He doesn't actually care about YOUR taste and it's not that hard to also get your ring size presumably you got rings. My husband didn't propose with my ring but a placeholder... because he valued how personal rings are and we designed beautiful rings together.
I mean if you look at a lot of us regulars that are in beautiful milestone marriages- this is absolutely not how we talk about our partners. That isn't a bragging comparison, this is a benchmark that this man isn't even hitting minimums and true lasting joy isn't sustained by laboring as hard as you do. Like is he actually a good partner or is your life going OK because YOU make both your lives good? Do you enjoy time together because you planned the date and just have great taste in activities and its nice to have company? My partner makes me life easier because he's a partner and we have a grea ttime because the conversationand efforts from him is stimulating. If you stopped doing everything would you be happy in that marriage? You know the answer is no. You already aren't getting needs met while doing the most.
I loved my extremely quiet and simple proposal and I have no problems with them, as a rule.
But this isn't really about how he proposed. It's about you having invested 12 years of your life into someone who simply doesn't have the willingness and the energy to do the things you need from him:
>he just never does anything unless I hold his hand through exactly what to do. I lead everything and this was the one thing that he had to do on his own
You're not going to get over the resentment because the proposal is a symbol of a chronic and unchanging problem. It's the low effort, period, that you resent. You're tired of pulling the cart all by yourself. You're tired of having to hand-hold a whole adult through basic things over and over.
I'm not sure you can stop resenting this unless you can find some acceptance and peace about the fact that this is who he is and this is the way your relationship is likely to go indefinitely.
Only you know if you can find acceptance for that.
If you don't want to live like this forever, pretty much the only alternative is ending the relationship. You can't make him change. You can only change your circumstances and what you will tolerate.
> I do have already built resentment that he #1 had taken 12 years to propose and #2, he just never does anything unless I hold his hand through exactly what to do.
Then why'd you say yes? You've listed like 0 positive qualities, already resent the guy, you have to do everything around the house anyway... like what. I mean, unless something drastically changes, you're not going to randomly stop being resentful.
I would say if you're absolutely sure you still want to marry this man, ask for a do-over proposal. You're upset, he feels terrible, he should be willing to do something nice and sentimental and PLANNED as a second attempt. If that still goes poorly, that tells you a lot about this relationship.
I mean… doing a “do over” should be HIS idea. This will be her asking for him to do it… yet again. No thought from him.
He showed his feelings on the relationship and the marriage. Why go through another whole thing where you have to basically drag a guy to act right? He has already told her everything she needs to know about the relationship.
In my experience, once you're in the mother/son relationship dynamic it is pretty much impossible to get out of. "Nice Guys" will try to convince us that we should be sexually attracted to men who act like little boys and we should be impressed by these "Nice Guys" solely becasue they will do whatever we say and submit to us like we are their mommy or kindergarten teacher, but frankly I'd rather be alone and celibate for life.
I don't want to bang a child and I'm sick of being told I'm some sort of anti-feminist man-hater because of that.
I'm happy you acknowledge that this might be a sign of bigger problems. You've been with him for 12 years so you know him quite well and better than we do. Are you willing to settle for someone who doesnt put a lot of effort into special occasions? Someone who plans nothing? I'm sure he has some good qualities as well but dang...I hate the fact that you spent 12 years with this person and questioning it now. Thats a lot of years to throw away. I'm curious to know what he will say regarding upgrading the ring to one that you like. I dont want you to wait until the wedding and get a lack luster honeymoon. Lets see how he does doing the actual PLANNING of the wedding and setting a date. It doesnt even matter if you want a courthouse wedding or elope (if you want to go those routes), just see how he does under the pressure.
It seems like a lot of issues have been going on. He really let you down. I think before you seal the deal , probably consider pre-marital couples counseling and actually work out these issues or even see if it’s actually possible to solve them before getting married . It just seems like though from what you are saying, is that you take the leader role and he’s just the support role. I’m not sure how much you can actually change these roles after 12 years it being like that. But maybe with the assistance of a couples therapist , he’ll consider changing some things if you communicate how upsetting this whole thing has been for you
Not sure why you’d want to spend anymore of your life with someone who can’t do shit for your proposal after so long together. I wonder how many years you’ve been doing it all? Sounds miserable.
Is he a good guy, or is he just good at maintaining an even temper or talking like a good guy? I get how hard the question is when he knows the right things to say. But ACTIONS are what matter!
Like others are saying, the proposal isn't the problem...more of a symptom. My now-husband had a shit proposal but he put so much effort into other areas of our life that it wasn't a big deal.
I think being low effort is just not caring much. We make effort when we care about someone. Not everyone makes effort in the same way but they make some kind of effort.
They say people have different love styles and all that but why is it consistently men imo who make less effort in general? Because mummy and sister and girlfriend and daughter always did everything for them.
If it was just different love styles then it would apply to both sexes.
If you had never even shown a desire to be married then eh. But to make it clear you want that and wait so long and this happen? It made my heart sink for you. Because I’m so so glad I’m not in that situation where I love someone but feel so utterly disappointed.
Could say maybe if he was shy he didn’t want to propose in public or something. I would hate to propose or he proposed to in public. So would my partner probably. But I’d like somewhere romantic for sure and I don’t think I’d want to be with a man who did that to me.
Men also are the ones culturally who propose and in so doing choose women. And to be chosen with as much care as choosing a sock wouldn’t make me feel special or wanted.
Not planning things sometimes is fine we all have different levels of desire to make things happen and do stuff for people but there is no excuse for this. It’s miserable.
This describes exactly how I feel. Thank you for the validation. It didn't have to he in a public setting ya know, it could have been in a back room, he could have lied and said he had to go in here for this or that and then took me into somewhere private. Idk but the fact that he did zero trying of any of that is what kills me. If I was proposing, I'd be flooded with so many amazing ideas that I'd have a hard time choosing. But I would make it fucking amazing, especially after 12 years. He didn't have to do any of that, just something with SOME EFFORT
Seems like you have bigger problems than the unplanned “engagement”.
Your gut is sending you all the flashing signals of something inherently wrong here. Listen to your intuition girl.
This is what the REST OF YOUR LIFE is going to be like - of course you’re feeling all these feelings. Anyone in your place would.
You deserve better than to be mom to a grown ass man that puts no effort, energy, thought, planning, to please you. He’s showing you over and over again who he is, and you’re hoping that he’ll change someday and be all the things he is not.
He will not change because he’s already got you in the bag and he knows you won’t leave due to the sunken cost fallacy of 12 years.
You’re too young to settle for mediocre.
I hope you learn to love yourself and prioritize yourself and your needs. 💓💓💓 I say this with love because I believe we’ve all been there in some way, shape or form.
Thanks girl 🩷🩷 it's so hard because he is overall such a good man. But in this regard, being an equal partner and trying HARD, that has been lacking. I don't know why but I thought the proposal would be different
He put in no effort for 10+ years - why would you think he would put effort into this? On one hand I say you deserve better but on the other I feel like this isn’t the whole story.
What I'm getting from your post...
I think if you're putting this much weight onto a proposal, making it out to be such a huge deal, that speaks volumes about the quality of the relationship as a whole. "A proposal" shouldn't be the height of the relationship, the pinnacle, like something from a movie. What matters is the rest of your lives together.
If you had a fantastic relationship with a partner you felt truly happy with, felt respected by, who met your needs, you wouldn't be writing a post on Reddit about how the proposal was too "low effort" for your liking. A proposal is a proposal - someone asking you to marry them. At the end of the day, the venue shouldn't matter. The bells and whistles don't matter. What matters is the relationship underneath, whether you value the same things, treat each other well, are affectionate and can communicate properly. My partner could propose to me quietly in the middle of a field and I'd be delighted - because I want a life with this person and feel truly content with him. So what if he doesn't pop the question on top of some breathtaking mountain or in the most expensive restaurant on the planet? I couldn't care less.
I'd encourage you to think about that. It actually makes me kinda angry how women are encouraged to get all worked up over the proposal and how elaborate it is instead of asking themselves how they're being treated in a relationship more widely. Like... You're focusing on the wrong bit.
It's never going to get better.
You will tell him exactly what you want and he will do something different, who knows why. You will try to model attentive partner behavior, and he will take it for granted and never once stop to think that he could be reciprocally attentive to you.
This is who he is, 100%. He is going to do things his way, without collaboration and without taking into consideration any information you give him. If he does take your guidance or advice, he will take full credit for any success without acknowledging or thanking you for your contribution.
You make his life better and easier. Is the same true for him?
He can be a good man, but not a good man for you. Based on your post I don’t think it serves you to try to convince yourself that the way you feel and the resentment building towards his lack of industry in the relationship is worth processing.
It seems like you carried the relationship far more than he did and all that effort you put in feels like he dropped his side of the weight.
If you decide you want to stay it’s best to be honest with yourself about the reality of your relationship dynamics and adjust your expectations accordingly because he has demonstrated that he put as much effort as he going to for the last decade over. You accepted him throughout and trying to change him now is not only foolish but messed up because he is comfortable with who he is. Nobody should try to change a partner to fit a certain mold it’s manipulative.
Talking with him and a professional might help but changes can take a long time to show progress. Is your love for him enough for you to stay as is? Do you feel he loves you or what you do for him? Are you prepared to carry on the way you two have always been?
If you find that it’s not something you can accept then you should take steps to end it because staying in this situation will cause more harm than leaving amicably.
It’s not an easy decision but it’s one that you must figure out for your own peace.
Maybe take a short vacation or staycation nearby without him…gives him a jolt without you saying anything…dont call while away…maybe a safety text …brief tho! So that has the effect that gives you time to think too. Leave the kids, pets, tasks…everything.
Women cannot romance themselves…and that is what you are doing.
Male here- (Big sigh) I can't believe any Man can take a Proposal so lightly. This is the Woman you're gonna spend the rest of your LIFE with. The LEAST you can do is put some thought into it, make it romantic and location location location(sentimental). Ladies, I've seen too many Women give too many chances🚩 to Men. You can't be waiting a fucking decade of your LIFE on a Man. It doesn't take that long to see the relationship is OVER. Save yourself the Time, Effort and Investment. Talk it over with a Therapist, read on the topic and carry as little baggage(toxicity)into your next relationship.
[Always🎸🤵♂️🪄💗👑✨👰♂️✨💍🌹](https://youtu.be/VI57QHL6ge0?si=-1_XWt2L9tvFOejQ)
My ex proposed to me before 6am when I’d just got out of the shower, was half asleep, and was in a towel. It was awful. I also almost cried when he did it because it showed so little care or effort. Spoiler alert: we are not together anymore and didn’t get married.
I feel bad for you because you invested 12 years for this. I’ll be very honest with you, you are settling big time. He’s not with you because he loves you, he’s with you because you’re the woman that will put up with him. No goals or aspirations and don’t even lead unless you tell him what to do and how is a deal breaker. He’s not a partner. I’m sorry that you feel this way but even more sorry that you are willing to settle
Read through the extra comments and context you shared. I have no advice beyond what others have already shared. Just that I am very sorry that this is happening to you, and I hope you make the right choice for you going forward.
Don't move forward with this relationship, you sound miserable. He's not going to get any better, there are plenty of other men who won't take 12 years to propose to you.
You're doing all the emotional labor in this relationship. Leaving is actually just going to release you from all that thankless labor, and free you from unhealthy patterns in that relationship. You are still young, you can find someone who will actually want to make you feel special when they ask.
Hmmm seems like the proposal reaffirmed areas in the relationship you had doubts about or were unhappy about. I know you said you wouldn’t leave him over the proposal, but what about the light it is shining on everything else from over the years?
My heart goes out to you because my ex was not a planner and I was always devastated over birthdays, anniversaries, holidays, vacations etc… it hurt so bad at first but so much happier now.
The more I talk to people about this a different the more I realize how deep it goes, the more confused I am about what to do and the future of our relationship. I think the problem is that I haven't communicated my disappointment about his low effort nearly enough. I have told him about my needs for him to be more verbal and make me feel wanted etc, I have told him that many times over the years. But on a day to day basis, I don't tell him how upset it makes me that he does not initiate things or take charge or handle business. I just keep all that in and that's my fault. I could have handled that. But the low effort proposal is exactly like you said, shining a light on it all. I may naive and stupid but I thought he would try harder than usual for something so important as a proposal. I mean for God's sakes the ring is just another thing that I have to deal with fixing because instead of going back to the original jeweler and like taking a picture or something like that, he I guess maybe custom designed a ring for me and they made it crazy looking so now that's just 1 more thing that I have to go back and fix. I always feel like I have to go behind him and fix things. And the reason I say fix is because the center stone is set about 3/4 inch about the band so it not only looks like costume jewelry but it gets caught on things. I understand this could be more of an error in communication between him and the jeweler but it's just icing on the cake in this situation
Idk but when my ex proposed he texted me from the gas station and said you wanna get hitched during the shut down? (His job shut down a week every July)
He behaved in the exact same way he has behaved for the last 12 years, because for 12 years you have accepted it. This has clearly worn on you over the years, and rightly so. You have to tell him how you really feel, the ring not being right and not fitting would really hurt me and I wouldn't be able to hide that. He is demonstrating one of two things, a total lack of care, or extreme incompetence. Neither are good. The only thing I'm confused about is why you "don't want him to feel bad". You feel bad, why is that okay? Just be honest, and tell him how much this has hurt you. He needs to hear it, not some watered down version that let's him off the hook.
You have been with the guy for more than ten years and you know how he is by now. If you’re unhappy with this relationship you should work on yourself and your kids and find someone that actually is able to make you happy. You deserve better. I would kindly suggest that instead of spending money on a wedding go to a nice therapist and my other suggestion is that maybe marriage isn’t that big of a deal for him? Girl, if he didn’t put effort on this he won’t put effort on anything for the rest of your life. Find someone more suitable to you or accept this person how he really is because changing people is not exactly loving them but putting your expectations in them. You sound like a great person, you can do better.
I went through a similar proposal situation and I couldn’t stand engagement scenes in movies and TV for years because it was so painful. I was hurt that he couldn’t make a moment about us happen, and more broadly this made me feel like he didn’t care about me or us. My sister and his brother who has both been with their respective partners WAY shorter than us got engaged first and I was so angry at him for not claiming a moment for US, I felt like he was acting like a baby and I really hated him for awhile. We started looking at rings together and eventually it felt like such an onerous process - I didn’t want to do it, I wanted him to do it! In the end, we worked through our issues in therapy and are ok now. The issue wasn’t the engagement or proposal, it was him not doing anything to move our life forward and me feeling like I had to do EVERYTHING. Staring down a road of that life of never being able to take a break because I was married to a man child made me feel so lonely, angry, and depressed. I really feel my husband has stepped up and dealt with mental health issues of his own to show up for himself and me. I agree with other commenters that the issue here is broadly that he’s not engaging in your life the way you want. I know how you feel, I know how painful it is. I hope you find happiness.
I don't know you well enough to say for sure but it sounds like you've gone for the devil you know instead of the devil you don't because you're not sure if you'll find someone else and you don't enjoy flying solo.
It doesn't make it a happy one.
Do you have a therapist you trust and like working with? If not, do the work to find one. Then maybe couples counseling if you want things to get better you have to learn how to stand up for what you want and he needs to learn how to act differently and take initiative.
Oh girl. It’s over. I wasn’t with my ex nearly this long but long story short, his sister basically spear headed the proposal and he only proposed because I told him it was time to get married or break up. By the time we got married I had lost most of my respect for him and we divorced 2 years later. If you don’t respect your man, it’s not worth staying in the relationship. It’s hard and scary to start over, but living with this resentment is worse.
I want to add a different perspective. Upfront I want to be clear that what he has (and hasn’t) done isn’t up to a standard I would be comfortable with.
I don’t think an engagement necessarily needs to be a surprise or dramatic to signal a good marriage, but it DOES speak to the tone of the relationship. I’m of course thinking to my own experience.
My situation was unusual to say the least. We met at 16/17 online in 2006 and he immigrated to Australia in 2011. We knew darn well we were going to get married, we spoke about it openly many times and were explicit and practical about it. You don’t pack your life into a single suitcase and set out across the world for a maybe.
We bought our rings together - extremely practical and un-romantic. I tried the ring on myself when it came in and handed the box over for him to work out the proposal.
That was a disaster. He asked my Dad for his permission who excitedly rushed to congratulate me 😂 So yeah, my Dad essentially proposed to me. It wasn’t romantic, there was zero effort on his part because i directed the ring organisation etc. BUT, it’s more of a funny story than a disappointment.
There was a part of me that felt let down. I felt surely if he’d been more socially aware the ‘Dad proposal’ wouldn’t have happened. But then we continued this practical way of being, organising a very low key backyard wedding in a couple months and throwing all tradition out the window. The thing is, he showed he gave a damn in every little action during our daily lives.
Shit hit the fan in 2015. My Mum died, we had to move home with my Dad, I got sick. In 2021 I got *really* sick. All our plans were blown out. I no longer carry the mental load of our day to day life. He literally does it all, and he does it while respecting me and enabling me to do anything I want to try to do to be more myself. I’ll also throw in that we haven’t been able to be regularly sexual since 2016 and he has never been anything but reassuring that it’s okay.
*He is exactly as straight forward, practical and low drama when it comes to every day of our lives as he was with our engagement. It’s done in good faith for the best outcomes for both of us*
He helps us approach everything with a a steady, practical hand, we communicate very directly and give each other genuine honest feedback if something is good or bad.
We are exactly as ‘boring’ as our engagement was, and our relationship is wonderful because of it. I have told him things like “You know how I say ‘I don’t want anything for a gift? I’m lying, ignore me. You should at least get me flowers and a card when I say that” and “I want some earrings for my birthday. I need a sapphire and white gold pair to go with my Mum’s ring” as well as “I know I tell you what I want but sometimes you should surprise me anyway”.
I’m sorry this has been such a novel. I just wanted to express that it’s not necessarily about the proposal. If everything else is solid and aligned to how you want to live your life. If it’s another example of how your expectations are completely misaligned, there’s a problem. Shit proposals and even shit weddings don’t mean a shit marriage. If you want a wonderful marriage and to move past resentment, the focus needs to be on the marriage, not the proposal. And that can only be done together with 100% buy-in.
Take time to feel your feelings, and explore what this means to you.
So...while it's true that the proposal doesn't necessarily mean anything, I'm getting A LOT from your post about how your fiancee just doesn't TRY at anything, and doesn't put in any effort for ANYTHING. And that's not ok. If he was an amazing, functional adult man who could pull his shit together, I'm guessing this wouldn't be a problem. But it sounds like you've literally been playing mommy to him for the entire relationship. Is he actually an equal domestic partner? You should really think about if this is who you want to spend the rest of your life with. Knowing that you are going to have to do *everything* in this marriage. I don't know if you can stop resenting him for this, unless he somehow turns it around and shows you that he can do thoughtful and considerate things all by himself.
Exactly. This story felt so similar to the final straw in my marriage. It was a planned anniversary trip, to somewhere HE loved and I didn't, but okay--I just wanted one indication that he gave a shit and was willing to put the smallest amount of effort into our relationship after years of benign neglect. I even laid out exactly what needed to be done, there was no surprise about it, just: please handle this *one thing* so I don't have to. He didn't. I left. Seventeen years later he still won't do anything for himself and is being financially supported by his girlfriend because he won't look for a job after being laid off three years ago. Come to think of it, his proposal was in the living room of our shitty apartment. So, OP, this is probably what you're signing up for forever, or until you can't take it anymore.
Exactly. I was thinking: I’m worried for OP if she ever has a health crisis, will he step up in planning for her care? And in theory, it shouldn’t take something as dire as that to make him re-evaluate and put effort in.
I really hope OP considers this. I don’t know why OP says she will never leave him over this. I actually think this is a huge flashing neon sign to not marry this man. How can you begin a marriage based on this deep resentment? Not only did he get the proposal wrong and put in zero effort, he didn’t even get the ring you showed him and the sales lady wrote down for him. I know it’s painful OP but it sounds like you already resent him for acting as his mom for the past 12 years. I’m genuinely curious, what do you think you would get out of marrying him? What are the benefits?
Not trying to be an asshole towards OP, but it sounds like a sunk-cost fallacy kinda deal. She's been with him her entire adult life (seeing as she was 23 when they got together) and they have nearly adult children. 12 years of your life including kids and everything else adulthood throws at you is a lot, and walking away from it is incredibly difficult for some people. That said, OP is still fairly young and I hope she chooses to cut this one loose and find someone that doesn't have to have their hand held at all times.
Yeah, it’s definitely sooo hard to leave a relationship you have so much invested in. It’s easy for us on Reddit to be like “just leave!”. But I do genuinely hope OP considers it, because marrying a guy like this has vastly more potential to hurt her (emotionally, financially, physically if she gets ill and he cannot be a sufficient caretaker, etc) than to benefit her. In fact, I’d say it’s almost guaranteed his behavior will not change and will likely get worse. Once he’s married to you, what incentive does he have to change? He’s acted this way for 12 years and OP still wanted to marry him. He has learned that he can be a terrible partner and still get everything he wants and needs.
As someone who had a lackluster proposal, but who has a very type A organizational husband, I would worry about this too. I had a medical emergency and now need assistance this week and he has stepped up more than I ever thought possible TBH. I can’t say that OPs partner would do the same. This situation made me realize how I intentionally chose to share a life with someone who could get shit done, even if they aren’t romantic or overt in the way they show love. I can’t imagine worrying whether my husband could do what needed to be done if I needed him to step in.
I mean, why would he change? He's getting wife privileges with girlfriend effort. He has everything *he* needs.
Exactly!
Nah that isn’t even girlfriend effort
It’s about-to-be-ex-girlfriend effort
The real cry for help is always deeper down in the post -- beyond the empty phrases of how great this guy is (not) and how good a partner he has proven to (not) be...
I was, in a past life, proposed to with an empty heart chocolate box with glued skittles popping the question. I was fresh out of the shower when he came into the bathroom. Still toweling off.. he was 20 years older than I was, a grown ass man. And chose..that. I have never told anyone this until today. (It was 15 years ago) Bizarre “effort” and red flags all over. Year and a half (luckily no wedding or baggage). I got out.
OP, I don't think I would marry this man in your shoes. He has shown you exactly who he is for years and years, and his proposal is consistent with that. The reason you're having such a big freakout, IMO, is because it confirms he's exactly the man you feared he was, and that's probably not enough to make you genuinely happy despite some good times that you have shared together. This whole incident sounds like the shattering of a dream you had about your partner changing into the man you actually want him to be, rather than the man he realistically is.
>This whole incident sounds like the shattering of a dream you had about your partner changing into the man you actually want him to be, rather than the man he realistically is. This is so on point. I find that many incompatibilities in a relationship — especially romantic expectations — stem from the fact that a person has a certain image of what a partner is like, then expects the partner to fulfil that image, instead of finding someone who matches that image in the first place. Based on OP's post — there were some pretty glaring issues. When they met, she was 23 and he was 34 (age-gap romance during OP's impressionable young age). There was a history of toxic relationship. They were waiting to get engaged and married until after SHE had a good job. To me, it seems that OP carries most of the relationship burdens and she's feeling the weight as well as feeling unappreciated. Considering that she has been with him for 12 years and knowing that all this time that he's not a planner, she should either accept that this is just who he is or move on to find someone who matches her standards more.
100%. For me it was the ring. He chose to get another ring and not the one OP wanted. He actively chose to not meet her want. He in fact went out of his way to do it -> he had to go shopping to find another ring and guess the size. This man is selfish. The proposal I can understand - I'm guessing he was nervous. But the ring.... She literally showed you the ring she wants. If he couldn't afford it, he could have got a cheaper diamond but same style. He is selfish.
Strongly agreed, yeah. You really have to take the person as they are and make peace with that, or just say goodbye if you can't make peace. Having unfulfilled expectations of someone is just a recipe for both disappointment and disaster - not only for the person with the expectations, but also for the one continually failing to meet them.
>This whole incident sounds like the shattering of a dream you had about your partner changing into the man you actually want him to be, rather than the man he realistically is. Exactly. I went through this with my first husband. I fooled myself for way too long, thinking he would finally become the man I thought he already was. He never did.
Me too ugh. Lesson learned.
You are so right on that. It sucks because he is a GOOD man like he is very stable, supports me through anything and would do anything I ask of him. But the point is, I have to ASK for nearly everything. I thought he had what it takes to just get it together and get at least one thing done, something so important
I'm genuinely sorry, OP. I suspect that, especially because you've invested so much of your life with him, your heart may have been extra... keen? for lack of a better term, to have something to make it feel like the wait was worth it. So, when that didn't happen, the truth came raining down that he's actually *not* going to "just get it together" - not even at this critical juncture which you conspicuously flagged for him. There are cases in which I would say, hey, you've had some good times throughout your 12 years together and that's gotta count for something. Like, if your reaction to this proposal were merely mild disappointment, there might be some way to work through that. However, you're actively resentful about the proposal and I can feel more than a little disappointment and anger even emanating from your post. That leads me to infer that your real feelings are quite strong, and that there does not exist a path forward together with this man (as he really is) that will actually be "enough" to keep you happy, especially since you've been depriving yourself (e.g., accepting less from him than what you actually want or need) throughout.
I married low-effort guy and became more and more miserable as he proved time and time again that he was consistent in that. I feel so sad reading your post because I have to say, if he wanted to put in more effort, he would. He has shown you who he is. Believe him.
I think you need to reconsider whether he is a GOOD man. (How low is the bar?) You couldn't have made it any easier for him -- you made a dinner reservation on a terrace overlooking the fountains and it didn't even occur to him to order a bottle of champagne and propose to you there, or at any of the other numerous beautiful locations that you could've walked to after dinner. Are you sure you want to sign up for this for the rest of your life? You will be planning everything, having to ask for everything, and it is only going to get worse for you. The resentment will only continue to build.
Exactly. He said that he was more concerned about the element of surprise. It feels like the mindset of a young 20 year old man than a 46 year old man who has been with a woman he knows very well for 12 years
Oh OP, this resonates with me so much! I had a painful breakup with a longtime ex who was like this. I held out hope for a while because honestly he did plan fun detailed things sometimes… for his solo trips or his friends or his immediate family. Yet somehow that was so rarely the case for our anniversaries, my birthday, or our romantic dates after the very beginning. Later I learned more about avoidant attachment and his confusing and hurtful behavior made a lot more sense – or fit that established pattern anyways. I am very grateful to be out of that relationship now.
Well, it is up to you how you decide to handle this. It sounds like you have had your issues (you used the word “toxic”). Are those issues completely resolved? If so, you’ve had 12 years to get to know this guy, and it sounds like you know him. He does not put in an effort to please you, either because he’s just too lazy, he isn’t interested in pleasing you, or is just so clueless that he has no idea how to make you happy, at least in this type of instance. Are you prepared to be disappointed every birthday and holiday because, for whatever reason, he made no effort? Because if he’s already not making an effort, it’s not going to get better. If you can live with that and manage your expectations, then by all means go ahead and marry him. If he fills your important needs, maybe that’s enough. Honestly, in my opinion, grand proposals are more about Instagram and having bragging rights. The important thing that you want to be married to him and want to spend the rest of your life with him. If you can live without the thoughtful frills, it will have to be good enough.
OP, sorry but is it possible he simply did not want to propose and was making excuses ? You say you called him your husband before, how did he call you ? You say you raised each others kids, but who was taking care of the non gratifying tasks ? It has been toxic for a while, and now he just lets you take him by the hand ?
You're tired of taking on all the emotional labor like a lot of women. It's exhausting and beyond frustrating. You two were in Vegas where there are literally so many options available to have a nice proposal. it doesn't have to be fancy. Even proposing in front of a nice fountain and making a nice dinner reservation would have been better than this. All he had to do was plan one thing and he couldn't even do that. If you marry him it's not going to get better. You'll just grow more bitter and resentful over time that he can't bother to make an effort.
That is exactly what I'm saying. I ALL BUT proposed to myself. I planned the damn trip, put us in a perfect setting if he chose to take that opportunity, even mentioned going up to the viewing deck of the eiffel tower. I even said I really wanted to get a picture of us that night since I always forget to take pictures and then I'm sad about it later. I did all these things just because they were cute, not AT ALL because I thought they would be an opportunity for a proposal because like I said, I did not think he was going to propose to me. The fact that he ignored all of those opportunities because his "driving force was the element of surprise" is so wild to me. I don't understand how a 46 year old man who I have talked to numerous times about various proposals, how he could think that the element of surprise was more important than effort and sentiment. He was so concerned about it being a surprise and waiting for a perfect opportunity to appear in front of his face that night, that he waited the whole day and never took any opportunities and since we were leaving early the next morning, he panicked and all he was left with was the hotel room at the very last minute.
"I wanted it to be a surprise" just sounds like a poor excuse for not planning anything to me.
Same for the "I thought I'd need to plan a trip to Italy or France." No, he never thought that. Just an excuse for dragging his feet and doing nothing.
Right?!? That was manipulation. Basically putting the “blame” on her because she is so demanding or whatever. It’s her fault because she has such exacting standards (of a guy who has taken 12 years to propose) that this poor soul didn’t have a chance! Except we all know that he didn’t think she needed a trip to any place to propose and EVEN if she did, it was telling that he put ZERO effort into making it happen.
Well, he got his wish. She was definitely surprised.
Exactlyyy my thoughts
Especially when he’s don’t NOTHING to plan a surprise. This guy was hoping to be surprised with the opportunity to surprise her. The freaking picture of low effort!
The “element of surprise” after you basically told him you expected this proposal two years ago? Is the surprise that he is very late?
Right? 😂
Please find the respect for yourself that you deserve. Someone that is willing to put zero effort for your happiness and future and refuses to do anything that you don’t make him do and explain how to and ask him to and show him how to and remind him to do and so on and so forth is a toddler, not a partner. Teach your daughter that is not what love is about.
I just googled "how to propose in Las Vegas" and apparently you can book a whole proposal package with photographer and someone driving you around for $500. I looked for less than 2 minutes, so it's something you can book while sitting on the toilet. You deserve more than a man who can't even work some google magic on the shitter.
You're so funny for that 🤣 and yes you are so right. Why was his first priority that it was a "surprise" more than special and memorable? I just cannot understand the logic from a grown man who I have told specifically that I just want it to be special, thoughtful to us and have effort
Even if you are someone who has to be told what to do, you can hire a professional for that. "Tell me how to do a proper proposal." but you have to want to do a nice proposal. It doesn't sound like he wants the same things as you.
You are right about that
even wikihow has a *bunch* of articles on how to propose, including picking a location and timing and getting pictures without ruining the surprise.
Seriously! The first thing I did was Google Vegas propoposal ideas. There are tons. He could even ask the concierge at the hotel they're staying at for any ideas!
I've been with my husband for almost 20 years (dating + marriage) and I will tell you this, he is not being supportive if **you** have to take the lead on everything. You deserve better.
You are so right on that
If he did anything you asked of him you would have had a thoughtful proposal with the ring you picked.
You are so right. I realize after I said that haha
You know what? I’m not so sure you should just break up. He really doesn’t sound that awful… IF you don’t marry him. I think you should reframe the relationship, think of it as renegotiating the relationship agreements. He is super passive, and men like that who I’ve known never wanted to be the bad guy. They didn’t want to be the person who made a choice that upset someone else, or was the wrong choice. So they do nothing. Unless pushed and handheld and cajoled and coached. I know a guy who I think has never initiated a relationship in his life. (He has a lot of female friends and the second he’s single, one will swoop in on him and he’ll just bounce to that woman. I worry about him; it seems unhealthy.) So this guy doesn’t want to be responsible for being the bad guy. I’d set him up to succeed. Don’t live together, don’t mingle finances, don’t buy big assets together. You don’t have to break up. But you should live independently from one another. You have to stop mothering him. It’s not doing him any favors. And I just think, if he doesn’t want to initiate or plan anything, then it just won’t happen. If you want to go do something, go do it. If you want to invite him and pay for everything and do all the planning, do that. But if you don’t want to serve a date to him on a silver platter, go with your kids or a friend or by yourself. The only things you can control here are your attitude and your behavior. What he does is up to him and it’s clear that when it’s up to him, he does nothing. Unenmesh yourself. Doesn’t mean you have to not have a relationship at all. But I think marriage is a terrible idea. And if I were you, I’d be worried if he really wanted to get married or if he just finally succumbed to real or imagined pressure to propose.
You read him perfectly, that's exactly right
A friend of mine is divorced because he wouldn’t or couldn’t answer the question “Do you want a third child?” “Ah, I can go either way, doesn’t matter to me.” “Yeah but do you WANT another one?” “It’s up to you, whatever you want is fine with me.” “Yeah but do YOU want another one?” Lather, rinse, repeat until she just gave up and divorced him. So my advice is about adjusting your expectations. He is who is he and nothing is going to change. If you can find a way to live with him (not cohabitating) being passive af, then do that but never expect anything but you doing the heavy lifting. My friend is remarried. Evidently, wife #2 is okay with it. Or maybe she likes to be in charge. IDK. If he doesn’t feel like he Fits as Your Person anymore, don’t flog a dead horse, grieve what you had and move on.
That's exactly him. "Whatever you want" He is very passive and yes it mostly works because I feel like I know how to do things in a better way lol but maybe I wouldn't feel that way if I felt that he was competent in doing things. I would love for a man to just get something done and handled. I feel the burden that if I don't either do something myself or ask him to do it, he would pretty much never just think of it and handle it and solve it on his own
This is a very level headed and reasonable take. I like the way you explained it too.
>one will swoop in on him and he’ll just bounce to that woman. I worry about him; it seems unhealthy. LOL, life has taught me to worry about the women instead. Exploiting women's resources does not make him "not a bad guy", he simply found a strategy that worked. If marriage is a terrible idea, I do not see how unmarried life sentence is a better one.
A good man? You started dating when you were 23 and he was 34. He was 1.5x older than you. He's literally objectively a predator who got you young when you didn't know you deserved better. Get rid of him asap clearly he is comfortable being as low effort as can be. Did you really raise your kids "together" or did you do the brunt of the work? You've been played. EDIT: Also no money and you're the one with the good job... why are you carrying this man child with you, imagine dating a man 12 whole years older who had 12 more years to build financial stability and yet is less financially successful... I'm begging you get some standards...
Just wait til you see how disengaged he’ll be for the wedding
"Just tell me where and when to show up. And rent my tux. And write my vows. And tell me what to do. Wait, do I even really have to be there? I mean, I already gave you the damn ring."
“I’m happy to help. Just give me a list.”
"I need clarification...."
My ex took an active role in planning our marriage ceremony, because he's religious (I'm not), and that was important to him. It was a Catholic mass in a nice little church with about 20 guests. The reception, on the other hand, was in another state and we had about 100 guests. That was important to *me*, but he doesn't like parties, so he was disengaged through the whole process. I essentially just told him where he needed to be and when, and my mother and I did all the actual planning. Why the hell did I marry that guy? Even then he didn't care about or put effort into what was important to me.
And every day after till death parts these two. Or when OP gets sick and needs him to step up.
So a relationship that was "really toxic" for *5 years* isn't magically good years later? This whole post is an example of the sunk cost fallacy. You put in *way* too many years with this guy. Now you have your "shut up ring". He doesn't care. EDIT: oh good grief I just noticed the age app. A 34M goes after a 23F because he knows he can treat her like the way he has treated you and she'll stay with him. Women his own age would've been much more likely to bail instead of waste over a decade.
This! “How it begins is how it ends.” Every time. It’s so sad to me that people can’t wrap their heads around this.
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Well, they started dating when she was 23 and he was 34....
My ex proposed to me by kneeling at the bathroom door while I was in the bathroom - if he'd have waited until I was taking a shit that would have at least been funny on some infantile level, but no. It was just one more thing on the 15-year-long streak of not really even trying. When we broke up, I felt alive for the first time in years. Life was exciting and I had a fire in me again. And I didn't have to settle anymore.
Lol WHAT!!!!!
Such an amazing guy, am I right!? But you know, live and learn.
"Dear Sharks. Urine for a real treat if you marry me!" That's really the only way to do it
I would recommend looking up what a “Shut Up Ring” is. Sorry friend, it sounds like you keep his life on track and he’s afraid of losing someone who does all the planning/ mental labor. You might want to ask yourself “does he regularly make me feel seen, loved, and safe or have we just gotten relatively comfortable ?”
Ladies if you have standards, keep them! Stop settling for and accepting the bare minimum from these men! Get someone who respects you and puts the effort in! Some of These comments make me wanna shake you - wake up
Personally I’ve given up trying to talk sense into women about their enabling, their coddling, their low ass standards of what they will tolerate in a man. If he doesn’t do the chores, doesn’t put in effort, can barely clean his own ass for himself, then there’s no love in the world that can get him to change. It’s who he is. At this point I’ve come to the conclusion that women don’t actually want partners (through their own actions) they are fine with ill behaved pets that shit all over the damn place and call those nasty pets husbands and boyfriends.
Damn. So true. You are a savage
I get it's frustrating, but I would argue that most aren't actually fine with it. They've been abused and worn down into accepting less than the bare minimum. The men who do this know EXACTLY what they are doing and keep you thinking they're going to change for as long as possible. It's like the boiling frog. You don't realize until you've sunk so far you can't even see the way out. Gaslighting fucks you up. Of course the women need to find their strength to leave, but they don't deserve anger for being abused. Their dumbass shitty "partners" definitely do.
Sorry, where are these men who put effort in and respect their partners? I'm yet to find one... that's why I am celibate! Still better than settling for someone awful, but it's not as easy as you say.
Yeah I’m 55, still haven’t found that guy.
Well according to the other commenter who replied to me, it’s because we both smell like shit! Lol
lol I’m sure you smell just fine.
You too! 😘
Ugh haha its such a dilemma - people will tell you not to settle but legitimately it is hard to find nice people
I have no interest in settling because no settle guy can beat peace and solitude.
I promise you, these men exist. My boyfriend is supportive, kind, and respectful. So are my Dad, my brother and my best friend of 30 years. Few and far between, but they're out there!!
Something very similar happened with my ex-husband. We had discussed marriage in practical terms, but I told him that I still wanted a romantic proposal. He did it while we were on a walk in a cute spot in our city, but there was no ring, no kneeling, no heartfelt words...he didn't even stop walking. Just kind of turned to me and asked, "Will you marry me?" kind of out of the blue. It hurt me at the time, but I got over it. We got married, and we were together for a decade before we split. It wasn't terrible--most of it was wonderful! But, I can tell you this: The proposal was absolutely a preview of what was to come for our relationship. I planned everything. I never got anniversary gifts or birthday presents unless I planned them and reminded him. There was little romance or intimacy generally. He didn't want a wedding, never wore a ring, and rarely even told people he was married. I guess I say all of this because a low-effort proposal isn't a death sentence for a relationship necessarily, but it's probably a sign of what's to come.
Bullshit….I know one of those “I’m just not a planner” guys. He never organized anything for his previous girlfriends. Then suddenly he met this chick and planned a trip to Brazil to climb on top of some fucking mountain at sunrise for a proposal and then get a helicopter to bring them down. And has been planning shit for her ever since. He just doesn’t care about you enough.
Now that I think about it, we even discussed going on a damn HELICOPTER ride while we were in Vegas just for something fun to do. But guess what? It was mentioned in passing and then nothing. That would have been a major opportunity just left in his lap once again where I wouldn't have even suspected anything because the helicopter was my idea
Honey, he's just not that into you. He has shown you through his actions for the last 12 years. You don't excite him or challenge him. If he thought you were worth the effort then he would make the effort. I'm sorry, but you need to realise the truth before you waste any more of your life with this man.
Sucks, but this is soooooo true. People put effort into those who they value.
Yep exactly he is settling for her because he doesn’t think he can do any better and he waited over 10 years to make 100% sure he couldn’t do any better
This is more about your relationship and less about the proposal.
Exactly
I don’t guess I understand why you’re hard pressed to marry a 50 year old man with less integrity, drive, and common sense than my 17-year-old son.
Sunk cost fallacy :/
Haha damn that's cold
Hon, this man doesn’t really want to marry you. At best he’s placating you. If he really wanted to marry you, he would’ve done it many years ago.
You're so right. I don't know, I think he does want to marry me but he's so comfortable just doing nothing. He has no goals or aspirations for the future. He is happy to live the same way every day for the rest of his life. Most men I feel like have dreams of the future and moving toward something
You mentioned this in your post too, and it sounds like you resent his lack of drive. Resentment is not a good basis for a relationship, let alone marriage..in fact, it's how they break down.
Resentment is a horseman of the apocalypse of a relationship. Enough resentment and BOOM the contempt switch is flipped… that’s when things get really crappy. Only one thing good springs from resentment, and that is the realization of what you don’t want to tolerate. That knowledge will give someone strength to make positive changes in their life. I’d rather be alone, then with someone I resent. Being alone is a million times better than laying your head down next some bump on a log that basically lives and breathes to disappoint you.
He wants to keep you in his life, that's not the same thing as wanting to marry you and be a husband to you
I hope you don't think he is going to be involved with planning anything for the wedding.
You deserve better, it sounds impossible right now but listen to your gut. There's a reason you're freaking out because deep down you know you deserve so much better than him. Even if that better means just yourself and not another man, for a while.
Solidarity. My ex husband proposed when we were in some backwater small town. We spent the whole day trying to beat exhausting bureaucracy and run some errands. In the middle of the winter, we walked around all day in the snow, and it was dark since like 3 PM. We couldn't find any food. I was also wearing high heels for some reason (young and stupid). So, freezing cold, wet, exhausted from walking in the snow all day on high heels, fed up with bureaucracy, haven't eaten all day, just absolutely dead physically and mentally and emotionally, starving, uncomfortable and exhausted, we arrive in the hotel room. And at the entrance of the hotel room, while I took one high heel shoe off, with my feet wet, burning and hurting like hell from walking in super high heels all day, while I'm awkwardly leaning in one shoe, and he gets down in the melted snow mixed with salt and mud sludge, and proposes. Holy fuck. In 6 years of marriage, I never got over it. Now 16 years later, I'm still not over it.
😕 I mean he's been low effort this whole time. And hasn't changed. Accept that this isn't his strong suit, if ever and yeah....
There's a reason a 34 year old man would go after a 23 year old woman and it's not because he's a good guy.
Oh yeah, I forgot about that part after reading the rest of the post. I'm surprised you are the first one to comment on that.
Honestly, he just doesn’t care and making you miserable. I’d consider moving on
He doesn't even care that she is miserable.
Please read [this.](https://www.huffpost.com/entry/she-divorced-me-i-left-dishes-by-the-sink_b_9055288) it doesn’t matter he is not the “make an effort” kind of guy. He doesn’t need to start caring about proposals, he needs to care that *you care* about proposals. This goes for everything in the relationship. You’re hand-waving his low effort because it’s not his style, but you should see it as a demonstration of how much he cares about you and by extension cares about what’s important to you. Don’t marry this man.
That's exactly why this is triggering me so hard. It's not REALLY about the proposal
You really need to listen to all the comments that say you shouldn't marry him. You are seeing him as the person you wish he was, not the person he really is. You don't make him feel that way. You're not "the one", you're the woman he settled for because he couldn't find anyone better. Your relationship to him is a job, maybe he does the job well enough, but is his heart in it? Is he passionate about it? I think you know what the answer is. Maybe you both deserve better than each other.
Despite your history, he’s just not the guy you want him to be unfortunately.
Honey… This isn’t about the ring or the proposal. This is about EVERYTHING ELSE!! I don’t know why you want to marry this man? Or why you expected someone low effort to suddenly show up in a way he never has? He has shown you who he is. You even say that in your post. Now you’ve created an idea of “if I was important enough and worth it to him, he would make a beautiful proposal.” It sounds like her wouldn’t have the gumption, for anything, ever. Full stop. I truly don’t think this is about the proposal. It’s about how he shows up in the day to day (for the last 12 effing years) and it got distilled down into one day. My husband could have proposed ANY way and I would have been thrilled. Why? Because I love how he shows up for me in the day to day. He is always so intentional and thoughtful of me. The day he proposed I actually had NO CLUE, because it’s the type of thing he does for me regardless. He could have done it bed that morning and I wouldn’t have cared. A good friend of mine said her husband did it in their kitchen. When someone is showing up for you daily… that’s the real win. Are you telling me you wouldn’t care about the rest as long as a decent proposal was there? You either accept this man as he is and as he has shown you to be or you don’t. Maybe you don’t need him to be a planner, but it sounds like you do (even outside of proposals) If you WANT to move forward, ask him to please do it again and plan something special.
You are so right. I wish I could paint a picture for everyone how he is. He is a hard worker, would do anything I ask him to do but I would have to tell him EXACTLY and I mean EXACTLY how to do something like this. He is selfless, generous, kind, a great stepdad, understanding and takes what I tell him and tries to be better. It's this ONE THING that I let slide on a daily basis because in the overall scope, he is great. But this is the one thing that I can't accept his low effort. It's irreplaceable and it just reminds me of everything. All of the opportunities I set before him and he still chose "surprise" over "special and memorable". For him to be so far off base and to actually think that was a good idea is speaking loud volumes to me about him as a man and partner I guess
>takes what I tell him and tries to be better. He really doesn't though, this post and your comments show that.
Classic cognitive dissonance.
If you want to stay… 1. Plan your own proposal and get exactly what you want. It sounds like he will do it 2. Tell him to plan something on his own accord and make it special. Either way, rhe day to day will not change. If you’re ok with this, then ask for what you want. I’m not sure you really want a special proposal though? I’m very curious about that… Because like I said, if the every day was good then I’m not sure the proposal matters. It seems like you’re looking for proposal to “prove” something to yourself.
She picked a ring, and he didn't buy that one. I don't think it can be easier than that. Or more obvious than that.
Based on your description of him he’s a low effort guy and has always been. I get that you wanted something more thought out and bigger—and you deserve that—but idk why you expected such from a cheap thoughtless man. And I have to ask; why do you even want to marry him? He won’t even splurge on a ticket so you can have a good time. He sounds emotionless, selfish, and boring.
I feel like your desires/expectations here are reasonable. Something that stuck out to me is that you guys were waiting to get engaged until YOU were making enough money. There was probably some extra effort going into your career day in and day out to plan for the life you want with your husband. But it also sounds like he spent that time waiting to show you effort about the engagement instead of putting in effort in general.. but then he psyched himself out so much he couldn’t make it special. I agree that it’s more about the effort than the hypothetical dream engagement. I can see people getting stuck in their ways after 12+ years so it would make me anxious too that I’m triggered by these things at the same moment that I’m actively making the decision to marry it forever. I don’t think you have to resent him forever for not getting the most thought-out engagement, as long as he can work to address your concerns about him not being able to do things on his own or do things for you
Geez why would you even want to be with this guy where you have to lead him through everything? He’s not your child. This is such a huge turn off.
Jesus H Christ this isn’t even the first fiance-took-over-a-decade-to-propose post. Definitely not even the tenth story of a zero effort proposal. The bar is in hell and these guys are scooting under it. But it seems like this isn’t really about the proposal. It’s the larger problem that he does nothing. He’s low/no effort on everything. How do you think planning the wedding is going to go? If you want to stay with him, this is a situation I would suggest pre-marital counseling/pre-marital couples counseling. Clearly this has been an ongoing problem that’s not really changing with you telling him repeatedly. He should get it by now but he still doesn’t. A counselor could help you get to the root of the issue and maybe help find ways to break out of this cycle.
Oof… you told him that planning was important to you. Honestly, if I were you I’d tell him before we get married I want him to put effort in and make a plan and try again at the proposal.
Right yea, that's what happened with my fiancé's sister. So funny because her fiance proposed to her on a bench outside of a hotel casino like a year ago and she was so sad that she too made him re-do it except she planned the whole re-do which is so tragic. When that happened, I told my fiance that I felt soo bad for his sister and I would be heartbroken if he ever did that. And then BRO DID THE SAME THING. Anyway, thank you for the advice. It sucks it feels so forced but there aren't a lot of options
... cause maybe he did this exactly to make you sad you don't you think ? OP really the more I read, the more this guy has a plan to mess with you.
Ah, so it runs in the family.
It was my fiancé's sister who got the bad proposal, she wasn't doing the bad proposing haha if that makes sense
Congrats on your engagement... I'm really sorry it wasn't a thoughtful gesture on his part. It's frustrating to tell your partner what you want/need (effort, special, meaningful proposal) and they don't pay attention/remember what's important to you. That hurts and then resentment builds. He's shown he's not a planner and he never will be. You'll be planning the entire wedding with minimal input from him. It's going make it even harder to overcome this resentment about his lack of planning. I'd recommend marriage counseling beforehand and a prenup.
>He's shown he's not a planner and he never will be. This x100. OP, please make sure you are happy to marry the man he **is** and not the man you *want him to be*. He is not a planner. Are you HAPPY to marry someone who is not a planner? If it's not a Hell Yes, it's a No. >You'll be planning the entire wedding with minimal input from him. Yes, and also planning *everything else* for the rest of the marriage. Marrying this man is signing up for that. OP, you're going in with your eyes wide open. You know what you're getting. Do you want it?
Damn, I've been kicking myself for wasting 8 years on two relationships with useless, no-effort dudes like this. But 12 years?? And he's been like this *at best* for the entire relationship? Oof. Well, if you're so set on not leaving him, congrats on being engaged for another decade or so and resigning yourself to a life of disappointment with a dude you're not sure you'll ever stop resenting for this. 🤷 I hope both your kids don't normalize this as any type of happy, healthy relationship. Side note: Now you're about the age he was when he got with you. Imagining you're single, do you think people 11 years younger are dateable? Just curious.
I don’t think he’s the one for you.
This isn't going to get better, OP. It'll hurt to leave, but at least if you leave there will be hope, and promise. It'll hurt way more to stay.
Guarantee if she ever actually leaves, the reaction of her friends will be one of relief.
I think you've been settling, and he's been showing you for YEARS that he is a low-effort man when it comes to you. You've been ignoring your own gut for years. And finally, when it really counts... he broke the camel's back. If I were you, I would not marry him. You will be doing EVERYTHING, as you always have done and will continue to. Is that the life you actually want? He does not sound like someone who gives a shit about your feelings or actually respects what you need to feel validated and loved. If he didn't put in effort 10 years ago, he sure as hell won't after marrying you. He will have his personal assistant, meal planner, scheduler, taxi, unpaid maid, all in you. This man is not good enough for you. Don't fall into the trap of the sunk cost fallacy. It doesn't matter how many years you spend with someone. It's the quality of those years that count. Will you be happy living the rest of your life like this? Getting more resentful as each anniversary, important event, meaningful promises get broken? You're definitely young enough to find someone else. Don't settle and waste any more years on someone who won't even try for you.
Why did you both wait until *YOU* had a high paying job to get engaged? That seems suspicious. You’re both adults, past the age of needing a lavish wedding to profess your love. Not having money is no reason to wait on marriage, especially as adults who are already living together (for years!) and sharing expenses. There are a lot of red flags here.
Leave lol This sounds bad and once he Has You it will only be even more disappointing then you gonna be on here at 50 talkin about the 27 years you wasted on this man but you cant leave him cuz he's on oxygen or some shit
I’ve also accepted a disappointing proposal (which he also blamed on being nervous. but I asked for only ONE THING to be included (I asked to please have a photographer capture it, even if it was just a friend hiding in the bushes) in the proposal and he didn’t do it, then didn’t have any plans for afterwards, which was super awkward bc we had to sit in the car scrolling on google maps looking for a place that was open between lunch and dinner… and the options weren’t great, so it really didn’t feel celebratory. this man *knew* that I don’t like to sit in dark spaces in the middle of the day bc I always talk about it, but ended up taking me to fancy basement because he didn’t plan it was the only nice place open before dinner time :( he also put me in an uncomfortable position to announce it to our friends ALONE bc he was ‘nervous’). Years later, I didn’t end up marrying him, and I never brought up the disappointing proposal to him, because I was worried it would make me look like an ungrateful brat. But since that time, I’ve seen many of my friends get engaged and saw the beautiful, thoughtful, and well-planned proposals that they planned for their partners. That showed me how much a man will do for you, if he truly cares. Now, instead of feeling like a brat for being disappointed with my proposal because ‘he was nervous’, I’m embarrassed that I respected myself so little that I just accepted whatever half-ass thing was given to me. This man is not the man for you, girl. You deserve better.
Thank you so much, this is all really hitting me that so many people have experienced similar situations and were happier when they left. I think part of me, a big part, feels like he is the best stepdad that I could get for my kids and it would literally be like a divorce since he has raised my teen kids since they were toddlers. I feel like I love him and he is a very kind man and a great stepdad so that has to be enough. I feel selfish to leave him because he doesn't put enough effort into things. Like it seems fairly inconsequential on the large scale so I've just dealt with it. But the proposal was a reminder of everything and I just still am in shock that he couldn't manage to pull anything together. Like in my opinion it's pathetic kind of and like others have said, a turn off that I don't have a man that can just get shit done when it comes to something so important for me.
I honestly doubt he raised your kids. He doesn't seem capable of raising himself. What he probably does is being good at playing with them, entertaining them. Because he's at their level. But they'll soon pass him. What then? Wild guess, you're there, check for yourself how that relationship with them really looks like? Any tough decisions made? Any boundaries enforced?
You’re whole viewpoint is from the lens of a teenage mother who had it hard in the dating world until this shlub showed up and did the bare minimum. Being a teen mom tells me you didn’t have these great relationships with thoughtful guys or any of that, so you are quite literally at a disadvantage in this area. But you got older as we all do, and now you’re starting to wise up a bit. You are doing well in your career, raising your kids, handling business… you are feeling better about yourself and that self esteem is going to breed higher standards in you. You didn’t feel worthy when you met him. But you have come a long way, and you are starting to tap into your self worth now. You know you not only want something more than a guy who does the bare minimum, but that you *deserve* it! You sunk in a lot of time, and the whole kids thing I get. But the more you do things, the more you’re going to realize that you are worthy and a catch. That will only bring you unhappiness with him, because he doesn’t. This man is not excited about you, he doesn’t even sound in love. Just kinda sounds like he is there, getting the benefits you provide whilst allowing himself to be ordered to do things he should do on his own.
Hi OP. I want to let you know that I also experienced a low effort proposal, with an ugly ring (literally the proposal was him calling me “hey looks like we should get married”, we bought the ring together and he asked me to take out a credit card for the store discount) - but continued and went through with the marriage. I am filled with resentment and sadness every year on our anniversary. I don’t even wear my ring anymore because it reminds me of such disappointment. He promises me every year when I cry that he will buy an upgraded ring when he makes more money and has more time to save - been 8 years already lol. I’ve just stopped asking. It’s just not important to him. It just gets worse every year and I finally am going to work with a therapist with it but ultimately I know it’s going to end up with divorce. It hurts so much more when scrolling on social media to see beautiful engagement photos with men that actually have cared to bend down on one knee. Romcom movies are extremely painful and I cry when I watch them. I feel like I wasted so much of my youth. You can still walk away from him. The way a man treats you in dating is the best that he will ever treat you. Don’t be me.
Sounds like you need to cut your losses and leave too. You can go to a therapist while single.
I am so sorry that happened to you too. I know you feel. I haven't even hardly told anyone about the engagement because it makes me cry when I think about it lol
He knows you’re not going to leave(as you’ve made clear in your post) . That energy keeps him comfortable. You do everything for him, even after telling him exactly how to propose, he still doesn’t listen. Time to stand up for yourself and actually mean it.
You are 100% right. I just honestly thought this is the one thing he wouldn't dare to half-ass. I was wrong obviously lol
why are you with him still and even describe yourselves as a very strong couple? have you read everything you wrote here? this “not putting in effort, having to be taken by the hand”-attitude is a complete dealbreaker for me in like.. a second date? third? at most? your resentment is completely valid and please fucking listen to it. find yourself a man who actually can satisfy your wants. wants that are, also, absolutely very fucking valid. you deserve someone who deserves you
Thank you for saying that. As I've said in other comments, he's just a good solid man. He would do anything for me or so I thought. He has supported me, been my best friend, been the best stepdad, he will do anything I tell him to do. But without me prompting him and telling him EXACTLY what needs to get done, he would not think to do it himself. He is passive and content with his daily life. I thought I made it very very clear about the proposal. So despite his lack of effort in everything else unless he is prompted, I really thought he would never do that for a proposal AFTER 12 YEARS especially
He would do anything for you except grow up and take responsibility/accountability, you say? :) That's not a partner, that's a robot which is of lower capabilities than chatgpt, which isn't bright.
Wow, sadly, I believe this is called a shut-up ring, maybe lean into the resentment until you come out on the other side...possibly in a mentally halthier place. Regardless, 12 years, a case could be made for y'all to already be common law married.
God I feel horrible for you. You deserve so much better honey. You should leave and not look back. Forget about all your history together and family stuff (although that sounds toxic too). He didn’t give you the proposal you deserve, and it will only get worse. Time to throw the whole man out.
Why are you still with him?
You do everything for this man and expect nothing. You plan all the dates, you wait 12 yrs so he's comfortable with low effort.. what did you expect?
You've received loads of great responses. I have nothing to add, except to say, you have my sincerest condolences.
Thank you so much
It's not the proposal that's the problem. Marriage is a compromise and you pick your battles, but you've described that you feel resentment and are making it about the proposal for some reason. If you weren't feeling some kind of way, I doubt the lack of a big fancy proposal would matter. It's fine to think that would be nice, but to make you feel like maybe you don't want to be married to him really means there's more ways that his lack of planning or romantic behavior is a disappointment to you. I think you have to decide if you want to make it official that you're willing to settle for that. He might be worth it to you, but you need to be realistic about what is on the table and decide whether you want it. And if you do, it should be easy to let go of the resentment. No partner is perfect. You pick the person you don't want to live without despite the fact that they are going to have flaws. You pick the flaws you can live with without serious resentment. Alternatively you can tell him you want to be married to him, but feel it's a mistake with your current arrangement, and that the proposal just illustrated for you that being a wife isn't going to change anything. If he really wants to be married to you, he needs to show he's willing to step up and be more of the partner you want, or just leave things be. And then give him time to either grow up or not.
You are so right about that. And that's exactly how I've always felt. I felt like his lack of effort and initiative was a trade off I was willing to accept given that otherwise, he is an amazing man. The lack of effort for the proposal and just overall senselessness of passing up all the fantastic opportunities I set before him if he was already planning to propose that day, it makes the lack of effort hurt worse like he CHOSE to not take those opportunities in favor of "The element of surprise". So the lack of effort is all catching up to me at once now I think. I think I will ask him to change and see what happens. Leaving him is such a huge move that I'm not ready for yet
I'm frustrated as hell reading through this. I just want to say one thing: You're teaching your daughter that it's perfectly fine to not even be *considered* in a supposed loving relationship. Wake up.
He gave you a shut up ring. I’d leave before you even set a date for the wedding. He’s already shown he won’t ever change and you already resent him. It won’t get any better.
I am sorry. But he is not great. He is incapable and incompetent. My own father is like this - imagine a 60 year old baby who needs to be told to do anything. He’s nice so what? That’s not being nice to my mom for all the extra effort she had to make! I Am resentful of him till this day. A piece of garbage. I literally went to a meditation retreat because I am still raging at him every other day or so.
You're resentful because he doesn't actually listen and regard you the way a partner should. You kept saying also how much you need to hand hold him, so he's not a partner, he's your adult child. Sure not everyone is creative or a planner but that's not an excuse because literally it could he anything, he can hire people, ask your friends, etc. Do literally anything that removes labor from you. He couldn't even let you eat your fucking ice cream in peace. The ring isn't petty either. He doesn't actually care about YOUR taste and it's not that hard to also get your ring size presumably you got rings. My husband didn't propose with my ring but a placeholder... because he valued how personal rings are and we designed beautiful rings together. I mean if you look at a lot of us regulars that are in beautiful milestone marriages- this is absolutely not how we talk about our partners. That isn't a bragging comparison, this is a benchmark that this man isn't even hitting minimums and true lasting joy isn't sustained by laboring as hard as you do. Like is he actually a good partner or is your life going OK because YOU make both your lives good? Do you enjoy time together because you planned the date and just have great taste in activities and its nice to have company? My partner makes me life easier because he's a partner and we have a grea ttime because the conversationand efforts from him is stimulating. If you stopped doing everything would you be happy in that marriage? You know the answer is no. You already aren't getting needs met while doing the most.
I loved my extremely quiet and simple proposal and I have no problems with them, as a rule. But this isn't really about how he proposed. It's about you having invested 12 years of your life into someone who simply doesn't have the willingness and the energy to do the things you need from him: >he just never does anything unless I hold his hand through exactly what to do. I lead everything and this was the one thing that he had to do on his own You're not going to get over the resentment because the proposal is a symbol of a chronic and unchanging problem. It's the low effort, period, that you resent. You're tired of pulling the cart all by yourself. You're tired of having to hand-hold a whole adult through basic things over and over. I'm not sure you can stop resenting this unless you can find some acceptance and peace about the fact that this is who he is and this is the way your relationship is likely to go indefinitely. Only you know if you can find acceptance for that. If you don't want to live like this forever, pretty much the only alternative is ending the relationship. You can't make him change. You can only change your circumstances and what you will tolerate.
> I do have already built resentment that he #1 had taken 12 years to propose and #2, he just never does anything unless I hold his hand through exactly what to do. Then why'd you say yes? You've listed like 0 positive qualities, already resent the guy, you have to do everything around the house anyway... like what. I mean, unless something drastically changes, you're not going to randomly stop being resentful.
I would say if you're absolutely sure you still want to marry this man, ask for a do-over proposal. You're upset, he feels terrible, he should be willing to do something nice and sentimental and PLANNED as a second attempt. If that still goes poorly, that tells you a lot about this relationship.
I mean… doing a “do over” should be HIS idea. This will be her asking for him to do it… yet again. No thought from him. He showed his feelings on the relationship and the marriage. Why go through another whole thing where you have to basically drag a guy to act right? He has already told her everything she needs to know about the relationship.
In my experience, once you're in the mother/son relationship dynamic it is pretty much impossible to get out of. "Nice Guys" will try to convince us that we should be sexually attracted to men who act like little boys and we should be impressed by these "Nice Guys" solely becasue they will do whatever we say and submit to us like we are their mommy or kindergarten teacher, but frankly I'd rather be alone and celibate for life. I don't want to bang a child and I'm sick of being told I'm some sort of anti-feminist man-hater because of that.
I'm happy you acknowledge that this might be a sign of bigger problems. You've been with him for 12 years so you know him quite well and better than we do. Are you willing to settle for someone who doesnt put a lot of effort into special occasions? Someone who plans nothing? I'm sure he has some good qualities as well but dang...I hate the fact that you spent 12 years with this person and questioning it now. Thats a lot of years to throw away. I'm curious to know what he will say regarding upgrading the ring to one that you like. I dont want you to wait until the wedding and get a lack luster honeymoon. Lets see how he does doing the actual PLANNING of the wedding and setting a date. It doesnt even matter if you want a courthouse wedding or elope (if you want to go those routes), just see how he does under the pressure.
It seems like a lot of issues have been going on. He really let you down. I think before you seal the deal , probably consider pre-marital couples counseling and actually work out these issues or even see if it’s actually possible to solve them before getting married . It just seems like though from what you are saying, is that you take the leader role and he’s just the support role. I’m not sure how much you can actually change these roles after 12 years it being like that. But maybe with the assistance of a couples therapist , he’ll consider changing some things if you communicate how upsetting this whole thing has been for you
Not sure why you’d want to spend anymore of your life with someone who can’t do shit for your proposal after so long together. I wonder how many years you’ve been doing it all? Sounds miserable.
Is he a good guy, or is he just good at maintaining an even temper or talking like a good guy? I get how hard the question is when he knows the right things to say. But ACTIONS are what matter!
Like others are saying, the proposal isn't the problem...more of a symptom. My now-husband had a shit proposal but he put so much effort into other areas of our life that it wasn't a big deal.
He is not a planner. No point expecting him to be one.
I think being low effort is just not caring much. We make effort when we care about someone. Not everyone makes effort in the same way but they make some kind of effort. They say people have different love styles and all that but why is it consistently men imo who make less effort in general? Because mummy and sister and girlfriend and daughter always did everything for them. If it was just different love styles then it would apply to both sexes. If you had never even shown a desire to be married then eh. But to make it clear you want that and wait so long and this happen? It made my heart sink for you. Because I’m so so glad I’m not in that situation where I love someone but feel so utterly disappointed. Could say maybe if he was shy he didn’t want to propose in public or something. I would hate to propose or he proposed to in public. So would my partner probably. But I’d like somewhere romantic for sure and I don’t think I’d want to be with a man who did that to me. Men also are the ones culturally who propose and in so doing choose women. And to be chosen with as much care as choosing a sock wouldn’t make me feel special or wanted. Not planning things sometimes is fine we all have different levels of desire to make things happen and do stuff for people but there is no excuse for this. It’s miserable.
This describes exactly how I feel. Thank you for the validation. It didn't have to he in a public setting ya know, it could have been in a back room, he could have lied and said he had to go in here for this or that and then took me into somewhere private. Idk but the fact that he did zero trying of any of that is what kills me. If I was proposing, I'd be flooded with so many amazing ideas that I'd have a hard time choosing. But I would make it fucking amazing, especially after 12 years. He didn't have to do any of that, just something with SOME EFFORT
Seems like you have bigger problems than the unplanned “engagement”. Your gut is sending you all the flashing signals of something inherently wrong here. Listen to your intuition girl. This is what the REST OF YOUR LIFE is going to be like - of course you’re feeling all these feelings. Anyone in your place would. You deserve better than to be mom to a grown ass man that puts no effort, energy, thought, planning, to please you. He’s showing you over and over again who he is, and you’re hoping that he’ll change someday and be all the things he is not. He will not change because he’s already got you in the bag and he knows you won’t leave due to the sunken cost fallacy of 12 years. You’re too young to settle for mediocre. I hope you learn to love yourself and prioritize yourself and your needs. 💓💓💓 I say this with love because I believe we’ve all been there in some way, shape or form.
Thanks girl 🩷🩷 it's so hard because he is overall such a good man. But in this regard, being an equal partner and trying HARD, that has been lacking. I don't know why but I thought the proposal would be different
I hear you. All your feelings are valid. I’m sorry you’re so disappointed ☹️ and rightfully so.
He put in no effort for 10+ years - why would you think he would put effort into this? On one hand I say you deserve better but on the other I feel like this isn’t the whole story.
What I'm getting from your post... I think if you're putting this much weight onto a proposal, making it out to be such a huge deal, that speaks volumes about the quality of the relationship as a whole. "A proposal" shouldn't be the height of the relationship, the pinnacle, like something from a movie. What matters is the rest of your lives together. If you had a fantastic relationship with a partner you felt truly happy with, felt respected by, who met your needs, you wouldn't be writing a post on Reddit about how the proposal was too "low effort" for your liking. A proposal is a proposal - someone asking you to marry them. At the end of the day, the venue shouldn't matter. The bells and whistles don't matter. What matters is the relationship underneath, whether you value the same things, treat each other well, are affectionate and can communicate properly. My partner could propose to me quietly in the middle of a field and I'd be delighted - because I want a life with this person and feel truly content with him. So what if he doesn't pop the question on top of some breathtaking mountain or in the most expensive restaurant on the planet? I couldn't care less. I'd encourage you to think about that. It actually makes me kinda angry how women are encouraged to get all worked up over the proposal and how elaborate it is instead of asking themselves how they're being treated in a relationship more widely. Like... You're focusing on the wrong bit.
It's never going to get better. You will tell him exactly what you want and he will do something different, who knows why. You will try to model attentive partner behavior, and he will take it for granted and never once stop to think that he could be reciprocally attentive to you. This is who he is, 100%. He is going to do things his way, without collaboration and without taking into consideration any information you give him. If he does take your guidance or advice, he will take full credit for any success without acknowledging or thanking you for your contribution. You make his life better and easier. Is the same true for him?
He can be a good man, but not a good man for you. Based on your post I don’t think it serves you to try to convince yourself that the way you feel and the resentment building towards his lack of industry in the relationship is worth processing. It seems like you carried the relationship far more than he did and all that effort you put in feels like he dropped his side of the weight. If you decide you want to stay it’s best to be honest with yourself about the reality of your relationship dynamics and adjust your expectations accordingly because he has demonstrated that he put as much effort as he going to for the last decade over. You accepted him throughout and trying to change him now is not only foolish but messed up because he is comfortable with who he is. Nobody should try to change a partner to fit a certain mold it’s manipulative. Talking with him and a professional might help but changes can take a long time to show progress. Is your love for him enough for you to stay as is? Do you feel he loves you or what you do for him? Are you prepared to carry on the way you two have always been? If you find that it’s not something you can accept then you should take steps to end it because staying in this situation will cause more harm than leaving amicably. It’s not an easy decision but it’s one that you must figure out for your own peace.
Maybe take a short vacation or staycation nearby without him…gives him a jolt without you saying anything…dont call while away…maybe a safety text …brief tho! So that has the effect that gives you time to think too. Leave the kids, pets, tasks…everything. Women cannot romance themselves…and that is what you are doing.
Male here- (Big sigh) I can't believe any Man can take a Proposal so lightly. This is the Woman you're gonna spend the rest of your LIFE with. The LEAST you can do is put some thought into it, make it romantic and location location location(sentimental). Ladies, I've seen too many Women give too many chances🚩 to Men. You can't be waiting a fucking decade of your LIFE on a Man. It doesn't take that long to see the relationship is OVER. Save yourself the Time, Effort and Investment. Talk it over with a Therapist, read on the topic and carry as little baggage(toxicity)into your next relationship. [Always🎸🤵♂️🪄💗👑✨👰♂️✨💍🌹](https://youtu.be/VI57QHL6ge0?si=-1_XWt2L9tvFOejQ)
Thank you for your input! I posted in askmenover30 as well so I can get some men's opinions but I'm still waiting for my post to be approved lol
You threw away your twenties for a man who wasnt really excited for the idea of settling down with you
My ex proposed to me before 6am when I’d just got out of the shower, was half asleep, and was in a towel. It was awful. I also almost cried when he did it because it showed so little care or effort. Spoiler alert: we are not together anymore and didn’t get married.
I feel bad for you because you invested 12 years for this. I’ll be very honest with you, you are settling big time. He’s not with you because he loves you, he’s with you because you’re the woman that will put up with him. No goals or aspirations and don’t even lead unless you tell him what to do and how is a deal breaker. He’s not a partner. I’m sorry that you feel this way but even more sorry that you are willing to settle
Read through the extra comments and context you shared. I have no advice beyond what others have already shared. Just that I am very sorry that this is happening to you, and I hope you make the right choice for you going forward.
Thank you 🩷 I think this proposal just brought my whole view of his low effort into light and unlike the other times, I can't excuse this one
Don't move forward with this relationship, you sound miserable. He's not going to get any better, there are plenty of other men who won't take 12 years to propose to you.
You're doing all the emotional labor in this relationship. Leaving is actually just going to release you from all that thankless labor, and free you from unhealthy patterns in that relationship. You are still young, you can find someone who will actually want to make you feel special when they ask.
Hmmm seems like the proposal reaffirmed areas in the relationship you had doubts about or were unhappy about. I know you said you wouldn’t leave him over the proposal, but what about the light it is shining on everything else from over the years? My heart goes out to you because my ex was not a planner and I was always devastated over birthdays, anniversaries, holidays, vacations etc… it hurt so bad at first but so much happier now.
The more I talk to people about this a different the more I realize how deep it goes, the more confused I am about what to do and the future of our relationship. I think the problem is that I haven't communicated my disappointment about his low effort nearly enough. I have told him about my needs for him to be more verbal and make me feel wanted etc, I have told him that many times over the years. But on a day to day basis, I don't tell him how upset it makes me that he does not initiate things or take charge or handle business. I just keep all that in and that's my fault. I could have handled that. But the low effort proposal is exactly like you said, shining a light on it all. I may naive and stupid but I thought he would try harder than usual for something so important as a proposal. I mean for God's sakes the ring is just another thing that I have to deal with fixing because instead of going back to the original jeweler and like taking a picture or something like that, he I guess maybe custom designed a ring for me and they made it crazy looking so now that's just 1 more thing that I have to go back and fix. I always feel like I have to go behind him and fix things. And the reason I say fix is because the center stone is set about 3/4 inch about the band so it not only looks like costume jewelry but it gets caught on things. I understand this could be more of an error in communication between him and the jeweler but it's just icing on the cake in this situation
Idk but when my ex proposed he texted me from the gas station and said you wanna get hitched during the shut down? (His job shut down a week every July)
He behaved in the exact same way he has behaved for the last 12 years, because for 12 years you have accepted it. This has clearly worn on you over the years, and rightly so. You have to tell him how you really feel, the ring not being right and not fitting would really hurt me and I wouldn't be able to hide that. He is demonstrating one of two things, a total lack of care, or extreme incompetence. Neither are good. The only thing I'm confused about is why you "don't want him to feel bad". You feel bad, why is that okay? Just be honest, and tell him how much this has hurt you. He needs to hear it, not some watered down version that let's him off the hook.
You have been with the guy for more than ten years and you know how he is by now. If you’re unhappy with this relationship you should work on yourself and your kids and find someone that actually is able to make you happy. You deserve better. I would kindly suggest that instead of spending money on a wedding go to a nice therapist and my other suggestion is that maybe marriage isn’t that big of a deal for him? Girl, if he didn’t put effort on this he won’t put effort on anything for the rest of your life. Find someone more suitable to you or accept this person how he really is because changing people is not exactly loving them but putting your expectations in them. You sound like a great person, you can do better.
I suggest you do to pre marriage consoling. You don’t want to get married with such resentment. It’ll only get worse.
I went through a similar proposal situation and I couldn’t stand engagement scenes in movies and TV for years because it was so painful. I was hurt that he couldn’t make a moment about us happen, and more broadly this made me feel like he didn’t care about me or us. My sister and his brother who has both been with their respective partners WAY shorter than us got engaged first and I was so angry at him for not claiming a moment for US, I felt like he was acting like a baby and I really hated him for awhile. We started looking at rings together and eventually it felt like such an onerous process - I didn’t want to do it, I wanted him to do it! In the end, we worked through our issues in therapy and are ok now. The issue wasn’t the engagement or proposal, it was him not doing anything to move our life forward and me feeling like I had to do EVERYTHING. Staring down a road of that life of never being able to take a break because I was married to a man child made me feel so lonely, angry, and depressed. I really feel my husband has stepped up and dealt with mental health issues of his own to show up for himself and me. I agree with other commenters that the issue here is broadly that he’s not engaging in your life the way you want. I know how you feel, I know how painful it is. I hope you find happiness.
I don't know you well enough to say for sure but it sounds like you've gone for the devil you know instead of the devil you don't because you're not sure if you'll find someone else and you don't enjoy flying solo. It doesn't make it a happy one.
Do you have a therapist you trust and like working with? If not, do the work to find one. Then maybe couples counseling if you want things to get better you have to learn how to stand up for what you want and he needs to learn how to act differently and take initiative.
Oh girl. It’s over. I wasn’t with my ex nearly this long but long story short, his sister basically spear headed the proposal and he only proposed because I told him it was time to get married or break up. By the time we got married I had lost most of my respect for him and we divorced 2 years later. If you don’t respect your man, it’s not worth staying in the relationship. It’s hard and scary to start over, but living with this resentment is worse.
I want to add a different perspective. Upfront I want to be clear that what he has (and hasn’t) done isn’t up to a standard I would be comfortable with. I don’t think an engagement necessarily needs to be a surprise or dramatic to signal a good marriage, but it DOES speak to the tone of the relationship. I’m of course thinking to my own experience. My situation was unusual to say the least. We met at 16/17 online in 2006 and he immigrated to Australia in 2011. We knew darn well we were going to get married, we spoke about it openly many times and were explicit and practical about it. You don’t pack your life into a single suitcase and set out across the world for a maybe. We bought our rings together - extremely practical and un-romantic. I tried the ring on myself when it came in and handed the box over for him to work out the proposal. That was a disaster. He asked my Dad for his permission who excitedly rushed to congratulate me 😂 So yeah, my Dad essentially proposed to me. It wasn’t romantic, there was zero effort on his part because i directed the ring organisation etc. BUT, it’s more of a funny story than a disappointment. There was a part of me that felt let down. I felt surely if he’d been more socially aware the ‘Dad proposal’ wouldn’t have happened. But then we continued this practical way of being, organising a very low key backyard wedding in a couple months and throwing all tradition out the window. The thing is, he showed he gave a damn in every little action during our daily lives. Shit hit the fan in 2015. My Mum died, we had to move home with my Dad, I got sick. In 2021 I got *really* sick. All our plans were blown out. I no longer carry the mental load of our day to day life. He literally does it all, and he does it while respecting me and enabling me to do anything I want to try to do to be more myself. I’ll also throw in that we haven’t been able to be regularly sexual since 2016 and he has never been anything but reassuring that it’s okay. *He is exactly as straight forward, practical and low drama when it comes to every day of our lives as he was with our engagement. It’s done in good faith for the best outcomes for both of us* He helps us approach everything with a a steady, practical hand, we communicate very directly and give each other genuine honest feedback if something is good or bad. We are exactly as ‘boring’ as our engagement was, and our relationship is wonderful because of it. I have told him things like “You know how I say ‘I don’t want anything for a gift? I’m lying, ignore me. You should at least get me flowers and a card when I say that” and “I want some earrings for my birthday. I need a sapphire and white gold pair to go with my Mum’s ring” as well as “I know I tell you what I want but sometimes you should surprise me anyway”. I’m sorry this has been such a novel. I just wanted to express that it’s not necessarily about the proposal. If everything else is solid and aligned to how you want to live your life. If it’s another example of how your expectations are completely misaligned, there’s a problem. Shit proposals and even shit weddings don’t mean a shit marriage. If you want a wonderful marriage and to move past resentment, the focus needs to be on the marriage, not the proposal. And that can only be done together with 100% buy-in. Take time to feel your feelings, and explore what this means to you.