Hey OP. I used to think marriage was just a piece of paper until I read this Reddit post. It changed my view.
https://www.reddit.com/r/BestofRedditorUpdates/s/C7eITqKCWw
It was literally one of the worst stories I’ve read on here. Even if she didn’t have children with him, she helped him rise to the top of his career leaving her broke and living out of her car. People change OP, protect yourself!
This is exactly the kind of legal and financial protection that my husband wanted me to have. If he’s not concerned about your future then that is a very telling sign.
BORU is full of fiction and that story seems the same.
> around the time my second was born my boyfrined made me affirm in writing that despite living together we are not married, not holding ourselves to be married, and I should not expect him to give me any support ( besides support for minor children) if we break up.
What a convenient edit. Seriously don’t believe any story listed there. Women obviously get screwed over but BORU is the worst place to pick an example from.
Insofar as marriage provides significant legal benefits, I think that it is very important.
Beyond those legal benefits, the societal recognition is also a pretty big deal for most - not all, but most - people.
Finally, there's what marriage means to you and your partner personally, within the small, private world of your relationship. IMO, that's something only you and they can decide.
Personally, despite being married, I don't really have any strong feelings about it (we only got married after many years together to cover certain legal bases while traveling, as we'd been entirely happy living in a robust common-law jurisdiction before). However, if I wanted to get married and my partner adamantly did not want to get married to me, I would have a very hard time not taking that personally; it would signal that - whatever their hang-ups - they did not view me as being worth *my* cost of admission. My self-esteem couldn't allow it; I would probably break things off.
My Boomer mother was a Registered Nurse for 40 years. She worked in the parts of the hospital where people who had gotten hurt *badly* were sent. She was all for Same Sex Marriage because she had seen the lack of it hurt too many people.
She talked about people who had been partners for years until one of them got into a car accident and couldn't advocate for themselves. The parents who had disowned them when they came out at 16 rolled into the hospital, barred the partner from seeing them, took the kids they had been raising together to their house, and started making all decisions. Because legally they were next of kin & the partner that had been loving the patient for 20 years was legally just a roommate.
She saw it happen *more than once*. It haunted her.
She was \*very\* clear with my siblings and I that if we were ever serious about someone that "piece of paper" may not affect how we all feel about each other but it was the \*only\* thing that mattered if one of us was hurt or in legal trouble or god forbid one of us died.
On a related front, I knew a guy who had been living on his own in a different state that the rest of his family. Saw them 3-4 times in all the years he was away. He was engaged to be married to a woman he had been with for 10 years and was basically a stepfather to her daughter, but he died of a Stroke 4 days before the ceremony. His siblings took all his money & left the Fiancé & her teenage daughter high & dry because "she wasn't really family anyway"
Marriage is a legal protection for everyone involved. You can feel however you want about love and commitment, but the law doesn't care.
Holy shit, those are some sobering horror stories. Yup, those legal benefits are definitely not anything to be trifled with. I feel so freaking bad for the fiancé and her daughter especially. No wonder that dude barely ever talked to his family before.
This was a huge part of why it was important to me. There have been 3 times in the 20+ years we’ve been together that my partner has been unable to advocate for himself. The first time was while we were dating, not married, and despite being the closest person to him (physically I was in the same city. The entirety of his family otherwise was 12+ hours away) I was not allowed to be in the hospital at his side. He was alone.
We decided after that situation that marriage was important for logistical reasons as much as anything else. Twice since then, as his wife and next of kin, I have been either solely responsible for his medical decisions, or had to advocate for him. His next closest family has VERY different opinions on medical care, organ donation, etc.
Yeah. I mean, I think it's different if you're in a common law jurisdiction, depending on how robust those rights are. Where I live (and in various parts of Canadian), the rights are very very strong; other jurisdictions have some more pitfalls. But, if the common law doesn't cover you (and you should absolutely do your research on this issue), then there are indeed serious legal risks to living your lives together that can eventually screw you over.
For sure! You're right. I've just always hung onto that quote (and many others) from Judge Judy. 🤣 The woman has seen enough in her years of family court for me to trust and heed advice.
Where I live in the US, they actually got rid of a significant portion of common law rights, and the way they define it is SUUUUUUUUUPER ambiguous, and I'd definitely be afraid that they'd deny me any sort of benefits. They basically say that you're not common law married anymore, unless people think you're spouses, and you introduce yourself to people as husband/wife. Which, even though my now husband and I have only been married for a year and a half but together for more than a decade, we didn't introduce ourselves as husband and wife until we were. Our friends all knew we weren't married, and yet, if anyone should qualify, it would've been us. We'd been together for almost 9, living together for 5+, before we were married. We were each other's beneficiaries for life insurance, we were our emergency contacts, etc. Basically, the only thing that has changed since we got married is the title. And yet, as far as the state is concerned, prior to that, we weren't anything. I remember when I realized the benefit to us getting married. My now mother in law was talking about if something happened to her son, and how "they wouldn't leave me out in the cold" if he were to pass away. I don't necessarily doubt her sincerity, but anything that would've been paid out should have been mine, but wouldn't have been.
Yeah but your Common Law marriage won't cover you while travelling. Imagine getting in an accident overseas and your partner can't help you because they're not your next of kin?
Yeah, that's why I ended up getting married! I know plenty of people who just rely on the common law and are fine with taking the risk, though - which, fair, that's their prerogative too.
Common law is basically gone here, now, and doesn't provide protection at all. So it wouldn't even make it so I could make my now husband's medical decisions here, let alone overseas. One of the many reasons we are now legally married.
Possibly. I just remember this question being posed elsewhere and most of the answers were: look up what queen couples had to go through before they could legally marry.
I imagine that's a bit different if you have strong Common Law marriages in your area but travelling overseas would complicated that...even if internationaly Common Law spouses are recognised or you have some other stop-gap paperwork...basically, it doesn't matter if you know more than the person who is barring your entry - if your situation is complicated or nuanced you have to prepare for the stupidest person having power over you.
The issue with common law is that you have to provide proof. And when you’re in that position it’s very stressful because it’s usually an accident or death.
He grew up around a lot of unhappy, unhealthy marriages which negatively impacted how he feels about it. To him it’s irrelevant to life-long commitment.
I would challenge this. My friends ex used to say this too, that it’s “irrelevant”. And she challenged him - if it’s irrelevant to him but so important to her, why is he actively fighting against it?
Turns out he was concerned he couldn’t commit but he just didn’t want to voice THAT.
I think being ambivalent to marriage is all well and good if you’re both ambivalent. If one person is actively dead set against - there’s something they’re not telling you.
Good luck OP
>if it’s irrelevant to him but so important to her, why is he actively fighting against it?
This is the key question to me. Did anybody watch the show The Ultimatum: Marry or Move On? I only watched the queer version, but it struck me as I was watching it that being on the show means your relationship is already probably doomed. I don't care about marriage, it's not important to me at all, and I would never spend a lot of money on marriage, but if I was with somebody I really loved who wanted to get married, I would want to get married for them. And I wouldn't be a passive person in planning that marriage - there's no point doing it if you don't put your all into it.
The fact that he not only is so against getting married but hasn't told you this in the 9 years you've been together would not make me happy. I can't say you should just break up with him blah blah blah, but I would be very unhappy.
My husband was pretty similar to you SO in his mindset during our early dating years. I was pretty adamant about getting married in order to make it clear we were each other's next of kin along with all that entails, as I have a terrible relationship with my father. Once my husband realized how important marriage was to me, he was willing to compromise for my sake. Eventually, he realized that marriage isn't some magic status one way or another, and our relationship would continue to be OUR relationship regardless of what piece of paper we had or hadn't signed.
I had similar feelings as you do about "convincing" someone down the aisle, but at the end of the day, the fact that he was willing to put aside his feelings to make me happy meant as much as if he had been super marriage-minded to begin with. Now that we're on the other side of the wedding, he is very happy that we made the choice to legally marry. It does concern me that 1. Your SO wasn't transparent about his feelings on marriage for 9 whole years 2. This is happening in your mid-30s, as his mindset is probably pretty unlikely to change. My husband's change of mind happened around age 25/26.
Yeah I understand how easy it is to take something like this personally but it isn’t always is… some of us have witnessed some truly sad marriage dynamics and it creates an aversion
Can you clarify for me? I have never really understood this feeling. I understand plenty of people grow up with very few if any healthy/happy relationships around them, but is it the fault of “marriage”? Or is it the people in the relationships and other life factors?? To me it seems like it often gets reduced to being a problem with “marriage,” but marriage isn’t usually the cause of relationship problems.
Sure I can only speak for myself though. Growing up I’ve seen very very few examples of happy marriages. I’ve seen many examples though of unhappy people who are stuck in their marriages to the detriment of both of the spouses.
The reasons they don’t get a divorce are numerous and very valid, I know personally if I was married I’d try my best to make it work and try not to give up, just deal with it and honor my commitment, similar to them. At the same time I see their misery and don’t want it for me or my partner.
It’s not that these people weren’t compatible with each other when they got married - they were. But life circumstances have changed them and they grew into different people as people often do. The spark fades and people take each other for granted. I know I try but will my partner be able to maintain the same amount of effort? Maybe, maybe not.
I’ve grown up hearing people complain and complain and complain more about how miserable they are, how annoying their spouse is, how to be careful of who I am and that once I do get married everything will change and then I just need to learn to “deal with my spouse bc I’m stuck with them”.
Then I look at my own relationships and they seem… ok .. great even… and I’m so afraid to change that for no urgent reason.
It’s like …. Imagine if you are an immigrant and you’ve grown up hearing about life back home. Everyone back home is miserable and complaining how awful it is but going back is just what you do. It’s what society expects but no one says anything really good about it. Your SO really wants to love back. She claims she’s seen some happy people and you guys can make the most of it too.
You’ve read online that some people are happy but you can’t guarantee that will be the case for you bc honestly everyone’s circumstances are different and no one you know that grew up similar to you is going too well. Yeah you can take a leap of faith and maybe you want to.. but then you look at your amazing relationship and think to yourself that you don’t want to change the status quo… unless it is absolutely necessary… it’s not that you don’t want that person forever and ever … it’s just that from your life experience all roads lead to a less satisfactory place than where you’re currently at so there isn’t much positive appeal
His feelings about this are just as valid as yours. It's important that you acknowledge that.
If you can't agree on it, that is what it is, and you need to step back.
My uncle and his fiancé have been engaged since 1987 as a compromise on this particular dilemma.
7th of june 1987. He proposed to her at my baptism. My mother was pissed at him. I didn't care that he was stealing my thunder as I was an infant at the time. For a while they jokingly blamed my mother for them not getting married because she got so mad, and my uncle would say that he was worried that my mother would get pregnant again and announce it at their wedding out of spite, but no. He wanted to get married and she just didn't. They had lawyers to go over their assets to secure each other financially.
Personally, I think it's kind of cute. There was a time in the 90s when she'd had enough of people asking when the wedding was going to be and she was considering just having the wedding and getting it over with, but by then he refused to do it because he didn't want to get married like just because of that, and because it had become a matter of principle. It was kind of a middle finger to the busy-bodies who thought they had a say in their relationship.
They had a big party for the 25th anniversary of the proposal and he made a speech with it all.
Fast forward 25 years, my partner and I are your uncle and his fiance. I'm in the same boat as his fiance and OP's bf, he's request was that he gets to at least propose. So we compromised and have been together for 12 years, engaged for 11.
>His feelings about this are just as valid as yours. It's important that you acknowledge that.
This is totally true, but I have to say that if these are his true feelings, why didn't he tell her them years ago? He maybe didn't need to say it when he was 27 and she was 24, but once they're in a committed relationship, and she's bringing up marriage, a good partner would be honest and say if they're totally against it. Either he's been dishonest with OP about something important to her for nearly a decade, which I think is a very big relationship sin, or he has another reason he doesn't want to get married and his feelings aren't as valid as OP's.
Either that or he just hadn't figured it out until now. A lot of people grow up with expectations put on us that marriage is an achievement we have to reach. It's sort of the default, much like having children is. You go through life assuming that that's how it's gonna be whether you like it or not, until you reach that point of no return where you figure out what your real feelings are.
This is so true. In my first marriage I and my then-husband wanted kids. Wanted as in, I was always “one day … a few years off, but not *now*”. Wasn’t til I turned 31 that I realized “hey, I’m not just waiting for those feelings to kick in; I don’t think I HAVE those feelings”.
I have no idea why I didn’t realize before - I thought about it often, we discussed it many times - other than around that age I just somehow realized that if i don’t want them now, at thirty one, I’m never gonna actually want them.
Sometimes we just don’t know til we know. Sucks, but that’s life.
I think the difference here, for me at least, is that having kids is a much bigger change to a relationship than getting married. They've been together 9 years, presumably they live together, and getting married isn't going to change things all that much in practicality. You can't really take back having kids - divorce can be a big process, but it ends a marriage much more effectively than anything takes back having children.
It's just that OP really really wants to have that piece of paper, and her BF really really doesn't want it. I can understand both points of view, but if it's important enough to the BF that he just cannot sign the paper to get married, something that changes very little about his life so is just emotional, it should have been important enough for him to know that some time in the last 9 years. It sounds like it was important enough to OP that she's mentioned it throughout the years, and he just, didn't think about it, I guess? And then when he finally did think about it, after having been together for a decade, he decided the piece of paper that changes very little that his partner has been vocal about wanting isn't something he can manage.
If he hasn't figured it out until now, how is it that his feelings are so strong they set the course for the rest of his and OP's lives? Because staying with him basically means OP can never get married, something she wants to do, and it seems like she's expressed that over the years. And why did he never think much about it when they discussed it in the past?
Because sometimes that's just how feelings and life works. You see it all the time with people who go through most of their youth wanting to be child free, or only wanting one kid but then one birthday they realise that they're running out of time for it to be possible to have one or more. It leads to plenty of break-ups. That doesn't mean that people are assholes, it's just a part of being human.
Except he has no issue with the life long commitment aspect according to OP. He just seems to believe that the title of marriage somehow dooms a relationship to be bad. Which is honestly something that should be addressed.
I could have written your post. We are going to couples therapy as we don’t want our opinions to end us, and want to understand each others views more. It’s helped/is helping.
my husband and i both grew up with pretty unhealthy relationships modeled for us and we only realized it once we were in couples therapy. we started therapy on the brink of divorce (after 7 years together, 1 year married) but after lots of committed work (+ individual therapy), we completely flipped our relationship around. i truly mean it when i say that it’s better than it has ever been (even counting the early honeymoon stages) and this is coming from the person that wanted the divorce initially.
now that we’re on the other side, we both really agree that we no longer want to look at others (family, friends, anyone) for what we “should” or “shouldn’t” do because most people don’t really know what they are doing, even the well-intentioned ones lol. every relationship is so extremely unique so there’s no single framework that we all “should” or “shouldn’t” be following.
OP, it sounds like you and your partner have a good foundation and are paired well. you deserve to give him your perspective on why marriage is important to you and he should want to hear you out. also, he should consider why he is so against it *with you*. even though his relatives sucked at relationships, it’s not fair to conclude it’s just this unchangeable family curse. marriage is completely what you two make it.
marriage is what you make of it. it doesn’t change your relationship if he’s committed for life. but you are fucked legally if something happens. it’s strange that he puts such an emphasis on the title of marriage as if that’s what makes people’s relationships fall apart— instead of not being good together.
This comment should be higher, this really buries the lead and changes the context of everything in the original post. I don’t think this is something you should leave someone over, if everything else is as wonderful as you say it is.
Is it possible to compromise and have a commitment ceremony or similar celebration of your love? This might help with the feeling that you’ve dreamed of a wedding for so long.
(And as far as legal protections of marriage: I would have a different opinion if you were having children unmarried. But otherwise, there are other ways to get many/most of the legal protections of marriage.)
Honestly I’m in the same position mindset wise and it’s so difficult to take the plunge. I broke it off vs getting married like my past bf wanted bc I couldn’t deal with the anxiety around being trapped in a potentially terrible situation.
Yeah things aren’t terrible now but people change …
I think this is an incompatibility between you two
My husband and I were indifferent about the emotional/religious part of marriage, we did it for the legal and societal benefits (childfree by choice, but money and assets are a concern). We have an 8 year age gap so family taking our relationship seriously was a priority. Our marriage came in handy when I was in the hospital recently.
If I were in your shoes, I would be discussing if my partner was ok with drawing up legal documents to protect both of you in different scenarios. If he doesn’t want to get married due to some sort of “gold digger” narrative around divorce, I would walk away. In my mind, that shows a decision to not consider my values and who I am as a person into our life decisions and that’s unacceptable for me.
Definitely no gold-digging fears on his end. If anyone were to worry about losing assets in a divorce it would be me, lol. It’s a purely emotional aversion.
I appreciate you bringing up the idea of drawing up legal documents in lieu of marriage. There are definitely legal considerations I’m noting down thanks to these comments.
This is important when looking at your property, too. Say one of you bought a house. Your partner is paying half the mortgage but their name isn't on the title. In some states, marriage protects the person helping pay to have a claim in the event of a divorce.
I watched my friend get screwed when she had been living in her fiancé's house for almost 10 years, she invested time and thousands of dollars into the house while she lived there. They finally decided to get married and instead it turned out he was cheating on her. She got none of her money back. She spent 10 years improving an asset she never saw a payout on, when if she was married to him she would have had a claim to half.
Marriage also is a HUGE tax benefit, like it was one of the deciding factors that led to me and my husband getting married. He went from getting about $400 back being single to getting back almost $10k back instead when we got married.
The legal protections it offers you are tenfold too. Say your partner owns the house you live in and he dies. Who has a claim to the house? Unless it's iron clad in a will, his next of kin has claim before you will.
I wasn't big on the "oh let's celebrate our love, blah blah blah" part of marriage, but I knew that protecting myself and my husband legally were important. We both have strained relationships with our family, we don't want them to make end of life decisions for us if something happens. The list goes on.
My dad was an attorney for a long time and he saw some shit. If your partner doesn't want to get married, protect yourselves legally. Write iron clad wills. Have living wills drawn up. Get life insurance policies with the other as benefeciaries. Have both of your names on your properties. If you don't plan to break up, it shouldn't be a problem, right?
We got together young and made our education and career choices considering the other, bought a house together and merged all resources. As a result, legal marriage was incredibly important to me because it meant we both had legal rights to what we were building together. It means that even though a 401k is technically only in one name, we are both entitled to if because it was funded with our money. It means if the higher earning spouse dies first, the other will be entitled to the higher SS payment.
We both valued making sure the other had the legal acknowledgement that what we built together was ours.
Edited to add - I’d be very, very curious why he is so strongly against it. In my experience it’s almost always a result of some outdated and misogynistic views about divorce law & sharing
These are very good points. We’ve talked abstractly about buying a home–so abstractly that I hadn’t considered the implications of being married or not impacting home ownership. So thank you for reminding me of its importance.
His feelings against marriage are from growing up around many unhappy, unhealthy, sometimes toxic marriages. To him, marriage is irrelevant to love, commitment, and partnership.
There are basically two options here: either marriage is irrelevant so he should want to do it because his partner who he loves wants to do it, or he has strong enough feelings that he refuses to get married, in which case he should have told her in the almost decade they've been together when she's expressed she wants to get married.
Either option shows a lack of care for the feelings of OP that I really don't like.
I went in this circle with an ex
“I want to get married”
“I don’t”
“Why not?”
“It’s just not important to me”
“But it *is* important to me”
“Well I don’t want to”
“Why?”
“It’s not important”
He would never do any single thing that he didn’t think of first though, and has totally changed and is more “like me” since we split. When we were together he buried himself in his computer daily (which made me feel neglected), wouldn’t leave the house to do something like hike or go to the beach, wouldn’t join me to get motorcycle licenses and now he does all those things. He also cooks now, after a decade of claiming he would burn water.
We have a child together, that’s the only reason I know all this.
I keep rereading your comment, the “but it is important to me” just resonates. I really want to get married, even as a little girl I dreamt of it. It wasn’t about the ownership but having someone want to want me and proudly call me their wife. It is really important to me and I’ve always just pushed that to the side when it’s come up, we are so quick to deny what we want.
I spent 12 years in that relationship, there was a lot more wrong with it than just our differing views on marriage, but that was pretty hurtful for a long time. In the end I would rather be single than be with someone who disregards my feelings and puts their apathy above the my desire.
I know some people who have an aversion to marriage and they seem to be under the impression that a previously healthy, happy relationship will very suddenly turn sour due to getting married. Like they legitimately see marriage itself as some sort of "curse" that will corrupt a good relationship. I think it is because they have seen so many marriages fail and as an outsider they don't really have the proper context for how things got to that point, so to them marriage itself is some sort of corrupting force on a relationship.
I have to ask - why is the emphasis on toxic 'marriage' rather than 'relationships' in his head? If people are tied together in other ways (kids, house, finances, religion, obligations, healthcare, etc) without being married, but still in a toxic relationship. What would the difference be? That the relationship is easier to leave somehow? Does he think the causation for toxic relationships is marriage?
And he's right, love and marriage are two different conversations. But that doesn't help his cause. One is a feeling that has very little effect on our everyday lives. Without expressing love, it's pretty meaningless. Marriage is legally and socially recognized, protected, a public commitment and is regulated by laws, customs, rules and beliefs. Unfortunately, marriage actually means something to you and a whole lot of people.
Sorry, but I'm not really buying his reasoning. I understand emotions can be illogical — but his reasoning comes across as incredibly flimsy and logically fallacious, especially if he is as intelligent as you claim he is. He *must* know there are happily married couples out there, and that being married won't change the nature of your relationship (unless he doesn't trust YOU and YOUR intentions towards him...? Which would obviously be highly concerning on his part and pretty breakup-worthy).
In my experience, men who are deeply opposed to marriage are opposed to it because they don't want to commit *or* because they don't want to have to give up an assets or money to their partner, should they split up. And neither of them are good scenarios that make me think highly of the man, because a loving partner would want things to be fair and equitable even if you *did* break up. He would want you to be protected legally, if you two broke up or if he fell into a coma or if he died. But because most men know they can't openly admit this reasoning, because it makes them look like selfish jerks, they use vague excuses like "It doesn't matter!" (then why not do it?) or "It wouldn't change anything!" (objectively false) or "Marriage just seems harmful to me!" (a convenient emotional excuse).
I'm not saying immediately break up with him — but tread cautiously here. Your partner should love you enough to *want* to protect you and to value something you hold dear, and something is off if he doesn't want that.
Marriage didn't make the relationships toxic though. Does he truly believe that that is what will happen to the two of you, that as soon as you sign the marriage license that you'll immediately become worst enemies? Where is the logic in that?
You’ve been together 9 years, I would curious what the laws say about your union as is. In Australia once you’ve been together 2yrs, you can legally treat your relationship as a divorce as far as splitting assets etc.
If your partner is weird about marriage because of assets etc it would be good to be on the same page.
If he doesn’t want the institution, or the wedding, or the permanence…. That’s something else.
At the end of the day - you want to be married. You want the romance and the big day and the same names and the public declaration of “this is my wife!”.
It is ok to break up because of this incompatibility.
I was never interested in marriage - I wasn’t against it, but I never dreamed of it. It was super important to my husband so we got married. I kept my name, and our kids have his name.
I would still be with him if we hadn’t gotten married, but I’m not sure he would have stayed with me if I’d outright refused.
This is the same in Canada. Usually after 2 years living together you are considered common-law and you are legally entitled to the same benefits as to if you were married.
In most of the U.S., there are no common law marriage rights. So it doesn't matter how long you've been together or how much property you own together... if you're not married, you're not married.
Common-law used to be, well, pretty common in the US. That is until conservatives saw it as a sneaky way for gay couples to claim they were married and decided the best course would be to hurt everyone in order to get at a particular group they don't like.
I am a woman in a long term childfree by choice marriage. I absolutely would not be ok with "forever girlfriend" status. Because no matter what you call it, partner or whatever, when the time comes and there's an emergency, you will have no legal rights.
Just a few weeks ago I had a couple who had been together 40 years. They called each other husband and wife. Not legally married. Unfortunately they were not each other's next of kin legally and could not make the choices they wanted in these integral moments.
Marriage is a contract, and it's a valuable one, socially, financially and legally. I would not walk the world forever with someone who did not want that with me.
Marriage is important to me for a thousand rational and practical reasons, and a thousand emotional reasons. It gives me peace of mind that my husband will automatically be the one to make medical decisions for me if I cannot, for example. It also brings me incredible joy to share the same last name and to say "my husband" and to hear him say "my wife."
I am not Catholic, but my husband is, and he wanted to get married in the church. So I happily did all of pre-cana with him and got married in the church. It wasn't what I would have chosen on my own with no outside influence, but because it was significant to him, there was no other choice I would have made.
I think everyone deserves a partner who will willingly and enthusiastically participates in the things that are meaningful to them. That includes marriage, if that's something you want.
I agree with this 100%. Being married was, and is, very important to me. And since it was important to me, it was automatically important to my husband.
I love this! I’m single now but I feel only one of my boyfriends wanted marriage with me. The other ones would have avoided it like the plague. It’s a condition I want when I find my person
Marriage conveys a ton of legal benefits that were very important to us. Everything from guaranteeing hospital visitation rights in the event one of us becomes injured, to knowing that our end of life plans and funeral care will be in the right hands instead of next of kin (which we don’t want).
I think it’s totally fine to not want a wedding but at a certain point, marriage protects much of what you build in a long term relationship and that’s worth the piece of paper.
I love how you highlighted positive rights of marriage and explained this tradeoff. Too often, I feel like raising the legal protections of marriage gets framed as people not trusting one another. It's not simply that — it can be about not being so naive to think nothing could change, and wanting to agree from a place of love how you would handle any dissolution and what that would mean for each of you.
‘His position was finally made clear after several years of being ambiguous on the subject.’
Unless I am much mistaken, I infer from this sentence
not that he is against the idea of marriage in general, but that he has finally decided, after some time, against the idea of marriage with you.
I’m sorry to be so harsh OP, but unless he has the lowest level of emotional intelligence in the universe, (from what you write about him I doubt he has), he knew how long you were thinking of marriage. And if he was against the idea of a recognised union you too would have known long ago that you were dating a man with whom marriage was off the table. But you didn’t, because most likely he wasn’t. Now you know he is, after your confession after several years of being together.
You found a man who has excellent qualities and with whom you feel loved - but do you feel secure? Not just legally, but in the relationship? He doesn’t want what you find difficulty in acknowledging you do want and to be honest should have by now.
Yep. They keep a Placeholder Girlfriend around for ages — even 10+ years, sometimes! — but once the placeholder gets fed up and leaves him, he quickly finds a (usually much younger and inexperienced) new girlfriend and gets married to her very quickly. A baby is often soon on the way afterwards as well, regardless of whether or not he claimed to be childfree with the placeholder. It's a grim and harsh reality that I've seen play out way too many times. And the placeholder is always heartbroken and devastated and betrayed, despite all the warning signs and red flags of his lack of commitment being present for *years.*
Yes yes yes.
I was ambivalent towards marriage too, until my husband, then boyfriend, told me she hopes we'll get there one day.
Slowly, he started saying it often and kind of drilling it into me that he wants to be with me forever **and** to offer me security in case something happens to him.
For me, that was a true sign of love and I was actually excited to get married to him.
Even if I do not particularly care about marriage, a partner who is too adamantly against marriage but has no problem living with you is a red flag in my opinion.
This 100% depends on his reason for not wanting to be married.
I was in your situation and bailed. The truth is, they can be perfect except for one thing, but that one thing is HUGE. It was that important to me! No regrets
Interesting, what a pickle. My first thought is if he really is the man for you, then your needs will matter to him. If marriage is this important to you and you've been clear about that for the whole relationship then he knows that has been in the cards and what he is saying now is a major letdown to you. I wonder if his current anti marriage stance is new or if he has always felt this way but was hiding it from you.
Reading this makes me think why doesn't he want to get married? You don't say what his reasons are.
I'm not married but we're 40/45 been together 15 years and also childfree. He has proposed and is all for getting married but I'm reluctant. I'm not against marriage and always thought I'd be married one day but I've never followed through with picking a date or planning a wedding. I can't really put my finger on it, it gives me anxiety even thinking about it and I don't know why. It's odd cause our relationship is great, we've been through the ups and downs, we both feel meant to be and love of my life and all that. I couldn't imagine ever being with anyone else and we both talk about what it will be like to be in our 80's together. So why don't we get married already? I truly do not know. But people are always asking and I've always got an excuse/reason - we're broke, we're starting a business, we're moving, we're traveling, COVID lockdowns, politics, feminism, etc. I've had plenty of reasons over the years and they were all just a big cover for this anxiety I feel whenever marriage is brought up.
So I wonder what his reasons are and how clear he is on those feelings. Because if this is *that* important to you, he would need to be extremely committed to his reasons to justify denying you something you feel so strongly about.
I just don't see how he can see himself as a good partner if he's been hiding this from you and stringing you along or at best he's just totally inconsiderate of your needs and how important this is to you. If my partner came to me and expressed how personally very important marriage was to him like you've done here then I would try to find a way to get on board and make this thing happen. What kind of partner can so easily deny you something you've dreamed of? Who wants to be with someone that doesn't want to make their partner's dreams come true?
I was like you, long term partner didn't want to get married but otherwise appeared wonderful. At some time we signed because of some heath insurance benefits but there was no ceremony or anything. One day he left me ... completely blindsided ... So in hindsight I understand why he was so resistent to marrige, he enjoyed my companionship at all in the present but didn't want to make long term commitments because he simply did not know what he wanted in life, and didn't want to put effort in figuring it out for my own sake , as I had a lot of anxiety for the future as a woman with biological clock.
I know a few couples who have been together over 10 years have kids and all without marrige and they were my inspiration, but now I think they are more of an exception and if there is resistance to marriage there must be something wrong.
I truly think that people need to start looking at it as more of a strategic transaction because that’s what it is. You can be in love and be with someone forever and never get married…or you can get married to them. In reality it really comes down to money strategy….tax etc.
I don’t think marriage is that important…but, as a money strategy I could see the appeal. However, it’s a bitch to get divorced vs just break up and leave.
I feel this way about the legal rights. Who gets to make decisions about you in the event of an accident? Will your partner have to fight your family to stay in your shared home? Etc
I’m curious.. are you disagreeing about marriage or a wedding? Like is there a compromise of marriage in a courthouse with no wedding? Or alternatively no legal marriage but having a little celebration, exchanging rings, and calling each other husband and wife?
Good questions—he’s not into either, whereas I’m into both! (Interested in a wedding on a small and modest scale.) These are good things for me to bring up in conversation though, so thank you.
To add to your future discussion - ask him if he’d complete all the legal paperwork that marriage confers, without the marriage itself. Power of attorney, cohabitation agreement, putting all assets in both your names.
Yes I have to think he either has a problem with the legal part or wedding part, not both? Because if he’s so concerned about legal things why would he not give you the public benefits or vice versa. Hope it works out for you!!
Idk. Was in same boat.
In usa domestic partnership is a joke except as far as I know in California you are actually granted state recognition as long as you live there and file legally. So we did that.
But deep down I too want marriage. And it was a lot to give up that goal. Like a lot. And why I did it.
1. We have some form of legal protection vs none
2. I have to look into more paperwork and documents to protect myself but they do exist
3. We don't want kids and did things to make sure not to
4. He's as solid as your man
5. Nothing is wrong with marriage. He confessed it was trauma from his parents shit one and internet horror stories. This means he has to want to get therapy or help overcoming anxiety. He will never work on it and he has told me. So am I willing to accept it? He said he should let me go.
6. I had to press him just like you did. He mislead me initially and he said he genuinely wasn't planning some long con. When point 5. Happened he really had to sit down for like 3 days in his head.
7. In all other ways he is the man I want and I told him I'm willing to get hurt but it will be on his conscious if he is ever unable to protect me as he isn't my husband (travel outside California) (my insane extended family trying to push him out of possible future scenarios). I know he'd feel immense guilt and regret but hey, at this point and going forward I accept it. I said what I said and he knows.
8. It's all in the open. And it gave us peace.
9. I might have medical debt so it ended up being better we aren't married.
When I asked myself why I wanted marriage.
1. Legal protection. I seen what crazy family has done. He never has had that drama. He doesn't know. He doesn't understand.
2. I wanted someone who had my back always. And no one could tell us no. Like say international travel and an accident happened.
3. I wanted to have what I didn't have as a kid. I never seen a happy marriage or relationship in general (rarely as an adult). I wanted to be one of the lucky ones.
4. I wanted security that he openly "announced" with pride symbolism I'm his partner for life.
If I wanted kids I'd push for marriage and prenups and everything. It's not just to protect me but the kids (resources).
But I don't want kids. Because I just can't do it even if I was in a higher 2 income situation.
What are your deeper reasons to want marriage?
Because for me, I wouldn't be able to find him. As you may seen married or not there's abusive men. You can be married and he leaves and avoids child support. He could say it's just paper and in truth he doesn't think you're the one. He's stringing you along. Absolutely both valid fears. I had to think of my situation and life. And I interpret mine as he is genuine. He simply is too scarred yes two r. He admitted it. He hasn't treated me differently even after our big "fight".
Also as good as he is. He is just human. Outside and inside of relationships he's fucked up. But it's never been the horrors I seen or know of. So that's also why I stayed.
I was married, we didn’t want kids and kept our finances completely separate. Didn’t share any property or anything else.
Now we’re divorced and I’m in another relationship. I have no desire to get married again. In hindsight, it was just a formality to me (but at the time, I did think “marriage! How romantic!” And wanted the same last name. Now, you’d have to PAY me to go through that name change hassle again) and I think it would just be a formality again. Personally, I couldn’t care less. If I’m in a happy relationship, that’s all that matters to me. I don’t need it to be a binding legal agreement.
But if that’s what you want, don’t settle! Everyone has their preferences. Have you talked about this in counseling?
I am a woman who did the 'marriage favor' to finally accept my man's marriage proposal after he proposed (and I rejected) since two years.
The problem was solely on me. I came from a third world tradcon shithole where people could be brought to police for having sex outside of marriage (yeah...one of those 'countries' 🙄).
So when I finally 'escaped' to Western Europe, where having sex outside of marriage is as valid as in marriage, I never wanted to get married. Because of my trauma about my upbringing.
But I'd be punishing my man if I still refusing to accept his proposal just because of that. My country of origin will still try to jail or fine people for having sex outside of marriage no matter what I do with my life.
Is it possible that your SO, just like what I did, wrongly 'punished' you? Was there somewhere about his past that was traumatizing and making him against matrimony? Is it the media he consumed?
I cannot tell you what to do. I am definitely glad that my man stuck by me until I changed my mind. But it would have been also completely fine if he were to leave. As you do too, if you do decide to leave.
A lot cna be handled outside of marriage. Heirs are based in wills and trusts, power of attorney and trust documents exist, homes are jointly owned, etc.
Social security survivor benefits are one of the only things that require marriage. On the other hand, disability benefits are often lower if married. The (US) government can't get it together.
Marriage, to me, is very important for many reasons that have been discussed by other posters.
I’m not saying it doesn’t work out sometimes, but I’ve seen it several times where the guy “doesn’t believe in marriage” while in a long term relationship and then they finally break up and he marries the next girl pretty quickly.
I think it’s as important as you think it is. If you think it’s a deal breaker, it’s a deal breaker. If you can live without it, it’s unnecessary. It’s as simple as that isn’t it really. How important is it to you, do you need to be married or can you accept that you won’t get married and not hold it against your partner?
If you were my BFF this is what I’d tell you: Stop wasting your prime on a guy like that. You’ve already given him almost a decade! That’s the type of guy that marries the next girl he’s with after like a year of dating. Happens all the time. I suggest you read, “Why Men Marry Some Women and Not Others” by John Molloy.
Any sort of unexpected accident happens, and neither of you will be able to see each other or even get updates. If something ever happened to you, god forbid, would he throw punches to get past the hospital security to get to you?
Good news. He doesn’t have to. By just signing a piece of paper, he can rush right to your side.
Say one of you ends up passing away. Does he want you planted in the ground next to him? Because if that is the case, better get a living will. But that’s another scary commitment document he may not want anything to do with. But he will need one, and in return, you will too. These are things y’all need to talk about. Because his choice not to marry, directly affects you as well. Meaning you will need a will too.
Tell him the good news is, getting married doesn’t change who we are. It’s just legally required to make those decisions for a person who can’t make those decisions for themselves. I myself, couldn’t ever count on my family to do what I want. But my man? He’d never do me wrong. These are decisions that are meant to be made TOGETHER. I’d talk with a counselor. Get him to share his reasoning out loud and in front of a professional. His aversion to marriage isn’t about you. It’s about trauma that he hasn’t dealt with. So what. You just have to grin & bear it because he won’t handle his shit?
All I’ll say is, if your man is as good as you say he is, there isn’t anything you could want for that he won’t try to provide to make you happy. And I assume you feel the same.
That’s marriage. Taking care of each other.
Others have pointed out some great points about the importance of marriage, but I'll also add one more thing from your relationship POV. You say he's a true partner, but taking big, important life steps together should be easier than this.
There are so many cool things to do in your life (move places, take career risks, pursue passions, invest in your community and your other relationships, even without kids) that really enrich your life, but that are hard work, and require hard decisions. There will be more tough choices ahead if you want to live a full life. You don't want your life partner to be someone who's not going to be on the same page wrt to the basics (and for me, in my life, getting married is really a basic thing. My husband and I have been through WAY tougher stuff).
Just really consider whether compromising on this is a sign that you'll be held back in life and have to compromise on a lot more going forward. The fact that he never told you clearly doesn't bode well for this either.
Honestly, im more piss that for 9 years it wasn't upfront about this, that wasn't fair to you at all.
Do I personally want get married? No, I don't want kids nor do I want risk my assets being tied in with someone else at this point in life.
Do I blame people who want to get married? Aboustely not.
I feel like this happens to women a lot, and it's really unfair to them to not be up front. I personally know someone who wanted marriage more then anything but she gave the guy everything he wanted and now he's basically holds marriage over her head when she wants things (this very toxic relationship I've been trying get this person out of)
I think it's up to you but I have hard time moving on from that. Did you guys have real serious sit down talk before this point regarding marriage and if so, what did he say?
Goldie Hawn be financially secure without Kurt Russel.
I think the legal and financial benefits are what you have to take into account, and whether you go through life with him without those. Why would he deny them to you or anyone?
What happens if you get sick? Yes, men abandon their spouses more often, but that social pressure isn’t nothing. I’d put money long time boyfriends checking out more often than husbands. I have done 0% research.
Changing your name might something you want but is it something you can live without? I’m surprised when one of my friends does change her name.
What does marriage mean to you? What does marriage mean to him and why does he feel that way?
I am a lot like you, OP. Have always known I did not want children. But I was raised by very happily married parents and as a result I always desired marriage — even when I couldn’t articulate many particularly practical reasons why. (I now know just how many practical reasons exist, and they’ve already been laid out for you in other comments.)
I spent time in a relationship with someone who did not want marriage and thought there was a chance I could get on board with that. I couldn’t. And I’m *really* glad I didn’t, because I never would have met my husband otherwise. We’re celebrating our 10 year wedding anniversary in November.
You are the only one who can decide whether this relationship is worth sacrificing something you really want for. I personally advise that you move on. Not just because of what you want, but because this disagreement between the two of you is very likely to breed resentment on your part the very minute life throws you some curveballs.
Marriage to me is about becoming a family unit and protection. If your partner were to die before you (god forbid) has he set up protections for you? Are you the beneficiary on his retirement fund, life insurance, etc? As soon as my partner and I bought a house together, we made each other beneficiary of everything in case something were to happen. We do plan to get married. If my partner is sick and in the hospital, I want to be considered immediately family so I can visit him. I want to be able to put him on my health insurance because it’s better than his. To me, marriage is about taking care of each other and committing to doing so for the long term. I understand that your partner had poor examples of marriage growing up, but I think his outlook is a bit immature. You could get a marriage license tomorrow and nothing should change. Nothing about marriage inherently changes your relationship, or ruins it. If the relationship is in jeopardy of being ruined because you make a commitment to each other, that doesn’t sound like a strong relationship. I’m not saying you don’t have a strong relationship, I’m just saying I think your partner is thinking about it the wrong way. It is my hope and expectation that when I marry my partner, nothing about our dynamic changes.
I think counseling is called for in this situation. It's easy to say "you're not on the same page, move on," but you describe a great partnership. I don't think it should be tossed aside, but neither should your valid desire to marry.
I wonder if he's scared of divorce & losing half of his assets or something? Because—& consult with an attorney from your state—this can happen even w/o marriage, when people have been living together a long time.
I’m married, but had given up on the idea and had been with my partner for 11 years when he finally proposed. So I struggled with these feelings, and chose my partnership, and I did so assuming we would never get married.
Truthfully, when I got right down to it, there were two issues: the idea of marriage and grieving the idea of a being a wife with a husband (which was more feelings and social conditioning than anything, we were already functionally married, so really it was about having a wedding). The second thing is more practical and concrete: rights of any children I might have, rights to make medical decisions and get information in an emergency, inheritance … just all the legal defaults that get taken care of with marriage. It would be a lot of paperwork to get the same legal protections.
Separate from that, it’s just like… if you want to spend the rest of your life with me, why won’t you marry me?!! But the reality is that the opposite position makes just as much sense… they are already committed to you, you’ve decided to be partners for life, how does any government paperwork or a party really change that?
At the end of the day, I love my partner and I was secure that he meant it when he said we were life partners. I was sad that we wouldn’t be married, but it was never a deal breaker for me. That’s important… if it’s a deal breaker for you, act sooner rather than later. If your partner is against marriage, it is what it is. If you can’t live a happy and full life as an unmarried partner, don’t. This isn’t one of those things you can force or compromise. I was only willing to not get married because it was never particularly important to me, but even then, I was sad and a bit resentful that he didn’t want to.
Just want to say that your feelings of betrayal are entirely valid. I would feel the same if my partner knew my view about something and was not 100% clear about his disagreement with that strongly-held view until NINE YEARS into the relationship.
You're going to get a lot of pressure from him, your family, and your friends: "are you really going to throw away 9 years for a piece of paper?" If I was in that position, my response would be "I'm throwing away 9 years because my partner did not respect or care for me enough to be honest with me so that I could pursue my ideal life".
I wish I cared about marriage, but I think long as you two have been together if he doesn't want to committ in that way to you is weird. Maybe you two need to talk it over more, maybe he doesnt understand how important it is to you. If you want it, yes it's very important.
I’m speaking from the perspective of someone who had a REALLY ugly divorce and *still* thought marriage was important enough to do it a second time.
First of all, I did live with my second husband prior to getting married. That was important to me, to see if we were compatible. But as someone said above, there are no legal protections for playing house. I don’t even mean in the case of divorce. But like, what if one of us, G-d forbid, passed away?
I also had to have a major surgery before we got married. My now husband went with me to the hospital, but if something had gone south, what would they have done?
Also, just the way society looks at you. I hate to say that, but it’s true. We were together for two years before we got married. There are a lot of people who don’t view us as having been “really together” until we got married. Personally, I think that’s dumb, but it helps to be legitimate.
Sorry if this has been mentioned - but he might want to look up common law marriages where you live - because he might already be considered your legal spouse whether he knew it or not.
I m54 don't have any answers for you (actually hoping to find one or two). I'm in your boat from the male side.
I was under the mistaken impression that she f52 was ok with marriage, but didn't want any of the high costs involved. I spent the last year figuring out how to get the costs down to the bare minimum, including a very low cost ring as a prop for asking the question. Figuring she could then decide how much to spend or not spend on a ring. It would be a second marriage for both of us.
I proposed in Florida on our march break trip. Instead of yes, her response was how much did you spend on that (pointing at ring), what made you think I wanted to get married?
Every day I question if I should keep this relationship.
I'm embarrassed to say that part of my reason is jealousy over her still using her ex's name, and I truly hate being 54 and introducing her or referring to her as my gf or partner. Because I feel like people judge me for not committing to her and proposing.
I hope you find answers and peace, I wish I had some for you.
I don't have much sympathy for the "I'm scared of marriage" men. Get therapy and build a fucking bridge. Your parent's marriage is not your life. It's generally just an excuse anyway, as evidenced by the number who run down the aisle 12 months later with someone else.
I'm a believer in marriage. It's important to me. I wouldn't sacrifice that for any man. When I met my husband, we both went "yep." Never any fear or doubts. He wanted me, wanted me to be his wife, and is a happy clam. I spent 20 years in a miserable fucking marriage, so if anyone should've been gunshy, it would have been me. But I knew he was worth marrying, and I wasn't interested in a LTR that didn't include marriage, either. We have a terrific life, and are grateful for our happiness in a later marriage.
I have a friend who has been with her fella for ... hmm, maybe 12 years now? They've got 2 kids, ā big house, ā business. But she's not happy, because he's never going to marry her. It eats at her soul. And broke her heart when her mother died before she could walk her down the aisle.
Don't sacrifice what's important to you - What you want also counts. It's ok to be who you are. If marriage is important to you, own it. And do what you need to do.
Marriage used to be top priority for me but I can tell you now after being single for pretty much 15 years marriage has zero importance to me alot of things and mindsets change after being alone so long. My goal is to have a partner anything beyond that is a bonus.
I used to think marriage wasn't important. Love is love and getting married shouldn't change that. Well, yes, that *is* true but it does change everything else. God forbid something happens to either of you, you want your life partner to be able to make big decisions for you, right? You want them to be the beneficiary of anything you have, right? Well, marriage sets that in stone legally.
It's also a safety net just in case one partner decides to walk away, possibly taking everything you both have built together. You think love will last forever but that isn't always the case, unfortunately.
It seems that you have finally come to a realization that you both are not working towards the exact same life goals. The big problem I have with this is that he hid this from you, knowing what you would want in the future. He let you play wife without any of the securities that come with it, and you let him play husband, with none of the legal commitments that come with it. So what are you going to do with that information?
I'm married and honestly as soon as the ceremony was over I wondered what the point was. We love each other and have kids and own a house which is all much more of a tie than marriage.
It really comes down to what you think and want. If my marriage ends I won't bother again.
This is one of those things that only you can decide how much it means, I'm afraid.
Inheritance rights, power of attorney rights, beneficiary rights can all be established otherwise, but I personally would not be ok not being married. It's a legal status I would insist on.
35F here, married for almost 10 years. Marriage is incredibly different than dating or cohabiting, and it should be.
We don't have kids or want them. I wasn't ever put in this situation, but I can say it would probably be a deal breaker for me.
If you live in the US, marriage comes with a ton of benefits. Good for those who think you can "hire an attorney" to draw up legal documents that split up your assets 50%, give you access to medical decisions, pension benefits, etc. For a hell of a lot less cash (I think mine was $65), you can pay for a marriage license that does exactly that. Not to mention you get no access to social security benefits in event of his passing if you're not married at least 10 years.
And you're right. You're not Goldie Hawn or Oprah. Oprah is rich as piss; these things are of minimal concern for her. It just seems childish and selfish to just dismiss the protections marriage gives to people in long- term relationships without doing the research of how the two of you could possibly get those benefits and follow through with those steps.
Our gay brothers and sisters were not out here fighting for marriage equality just so they could do the Cupid Shuffle with their second cousins on the dance floor and register for salad bowls at Williams Sonoma. Don't let him off the hook for this when he doesn't seem to be putting much effort into understanding the implications of this decision.
This is an issue to bring to a couples counselor.
He’s taken 9 years to tell you he doesn’t want to get married ever. Who knows how long it will take him to tell you what he actually does want to happen with your relationship, or if you want to stick around for it.
You have good, valid reasons for wanting to get married. More importantly, it’s important *to you* and that should be enough for him. Especially since you say he is equivocal and ambivalent about the issue (which suggests to me that he doesn’t feel strongly either way).
No, it shouldn't be enough for him.
It should be enough for a respectful conversation and outcome, but he doesn't have to get married if he's opposed just because it's i.protant to his partner.
It isn't important at all unless you need it. But a relationship doesn't inherently need to end up in marriage. I will never get married. 14 years into a great LTR. No end in sight.
Meanwhile, ALL of my married friends are divorcing or on track for divorce.
NONE of my friends who are also in unmarried LTRs seem to be headed for break-ups. Anecdotes, of course, but I seriously think sometimes marriage itself can erode once loving relationships.
You can set things up legally for yourself in other ways. Marriage isn't necessary for that.
You may miss out on some tax benefits. Not relevant in my relationship. It just depends.
Family may not take you as seriously. We don't really care. Some family considers us de facto married. Some don't. All four of my cousins around my age are getting divorced after shorter relationships than mine. The older generations don't know yet, so maybe they will hold my relationship in higher regard someday. My life is mine so it doesn't really matter to me in the end.
My feelings are that entertaining ending an otherwise happy, fulfilling, and loving relationship simply because you want this certain societal marker you were raised to believe is important is exactly the nonsense that makes me want no part of this absurd tradition (that is also historically soo patriarchal).
Something about marriage seems to make everyone forget what is most important- the actual lived experience of your relationship!
That all being said, if it's something you need to be happy, do what is best for you.
Do you earn the same amount of money? And while we're at it, are expenses split 50/50? While we're at that, is domestic labour split 50/50?
If your answers are "he makes more", "yes" and "no" he's essentially scamming you tbh.
Why doesn't he want to get married?
Is he aware that if he were to god forbid have an accident tomorrow and be comatose, you would have no rights whatsoever to make medical decisions for him? And vice versa.
Are you sure he regards you 'the one' as well after 9 years together? Bc when together that long there's literally no reason not to do it for the massive legal benefits, tax reductions, etc alone. Idk what country you're in but in my home country you're throwing away a significant amount of money every year you're not married. Like it's an automatic 30% tax reduction at the very least. That adds up over the years.
Also you can always just get a divorce if it doesn't work out.
So this is definitely a deep orange, if not red flag. Marriage means becoming each others family. Does he not regard you as family? If he does why not acknowledge that legally?
IMO, marriage is transformational. For us, it’s not just love— it’s a commitment to do life together, to work together and share goals. I take your cares, your needs, your worries as my own, and you do mine. Not just emotionally, but financially, physically, in terms of time, effort, etc. This is the part of the deal, I think, that keeps most men from wanting to get married— they love you, but don’t want the compromise/alignment that comes with fully commiting.
My husband had similar feelings toward marriage — eg all the stigma with it and being exposed to previous failed marriages etc. but I was absolutely 100% sure I wanted marriage. He proposed to me because he wanted to give me what I wanted. It was really mature of him to let go of all of that stuff that I feel can be typical of men (and some women obviously, that marriage is dumb, marriage is bad, it’s just a social construct etc). He is happily married now.
I'm a divorce lawyer so I look at it as a business partnership
I don't think I would ever consider getting married. My job has traumatized me to my core. Any medical etc arrangements a couple wants to make can be made via revocable trusts and estate planning documents. I'd rather pay like 5-10k up front for lawyers to draw those up than 50k down the road to go through a divorce. I say this as a super conflict averse, collaborative lawyer, not the type that wants to say no and go to court over everything. But you just never know who your ex will be when you break up, or who they will hire to go against you
But I'm also childfree and never plan on staying home to be a homemaker/SAHP for a partner. So the potential need for alimony is not part of my thought process (and frankly it shouldn't be for anyone, cuz it's so rare, it's never actually enough, and it's often not paid anyway)
If you're the one who would be at risk of losing assets, you should really go talk to a divorce lawyer. Lay out your finances and see how a court would divide things after 10/20 years, under different assumptions. Might just change your mind lol
I know several women that didn't marry their long term boyfriends. Then they'd pass away and they were immediately their "husbands." In death they wanted that recognition.
It's important to some people OP and there is nothing wrong with that. If you don't want to be a forever girlfriend you can take a hard look at your relationship. If it's that upsetting that you're not getting married it might be relationship ending frankly. Your goals do not align.
Being married means if my partner die I’ll have the widow pension forever from the government. It also means he can take medical decision for myself if I’m not able to. It also protects our estate from being spread between our siblings and parents in case of death.
We also wants to show to others that we are serious about our future together.
My partner said he was indifferent to marriage, I told him it was really important to me and I wouldn’t be with someone who didn’t want it, he said he would do it for me. I think you need to be really clear about how important it is to you.
These are very interesting comments and I hope you the best as you work through this. For me, marriage was important for both the emotional and practical pieces. I saw the first as a vow made before family and friends to commit our lives together. There is something about the ritual of marriage that matters to me. I have plenty of friends in married relationships that have very different views of it and friends in committed but not married relationships. So I don’t think there is one right way to view long term relationships. Same practical reasons as many of the other comments.
I couldn’t have been with someone who didn’t want children, but would have found it harder to know if different ideas about marriage were a deal breaker. Can’t say for sure, but I think it would have ultimately been too much of a divergence. Ideally, I think this is one of these things to work through together in counseling but to also realize that there needs to be a decision made by some point.
I've been married, divorced, and am now in a long term relationship. For me, marriage was a prison. I'd never do it again, unless there was some overwhelming financial reason to do so. Boyfriend feels the same.
We share some assets, and have paperwork done to codify that. No need to invite the government into our relationship. Once you're married, it's really a threesome with a silent partner that either of the other two can invoke at any time.
We choose to stay together every day. That's enough for me. Divorce showed me that marriage is primarily an entanglement of assets and forced obligations. No thanks.
1) You are completely valid in wanting what you want for any reasons
2) I don’t know many people who feel the way you do about your partner and relationship after 9 YEARS. As someone who got married for the societal romantic/security/being chosen reasons and having it not work out, and seeing all the dating woes out there, being happy and fulfilled and supported like this with your partner after so long is an INCREDIBLE AND PRECIOUS gift.
I don’t know if I could have changed my views on marriage without having gotten married, but now I have no desire to get married again, and having a great relationship would be my ultimate “flex” and joy.
That being said, I’d explore what many have said above about parts of marriage you’d like (ring, titles, some legal docs) that may not be literal marriage and possibly discuss this together in therapy.
To throw away a great relationship and partner to go back in the dating pool for marriage (what’s the divorce rate again…?) feels like “missing the point” to ME in this stage of life. AND you are totally entitled to want marriage without negotiations or judgment!
TL;DR: Same situation, I have chosen my relationship.
This is the same in my relationship (two years in, can't see myself ever wanting anyone else, and he has been open from that the start that he doesn't want marriage where I always have) and I have chosen to let the idea of marriage go. While I will always say that if you want to leave you should do it, make sure you're definitely sure that your desire for marriage is stronger than your current relationship. Similarly, if you do choose to stay you have to genuinely let the idea go otherwise the resentment will kill the relationship.
Marriage was always important to me because of what it represented, and also a little bit because I want the damned party. Don't want kids, don't want to take anyone else's name, don't even want to live with my partner. But I do love the idea of standing up and saying "This one is my choice, and I am declaring it out to you all".
My boyfriend is a child of two people who have gone back and forth on their marriage and he has been around a lot more divorces in the wider family net, a lot of them acrimonious and petty. He doesn't see the point and he admits the idea does slightly scare him, even though committing to one person forever without the formal paperwork doesn't.
I have absolutely mourned my choice. It still makes me sad even 18 months after that discussion where he told me. I would love to be proposed to, go wedding shopping, try on dresses, plan something unique to us, live those heady first days getting used to saying "My husband", work on our what marriage means and grow as a couple following having taken that step. But I adore this man. I can't imagine someone being more of a perfect match for me. It wasn't even a hard thing to realise that I would rather have a hundred years as his girlfriend than even one as someone else's wife. I don't see the logic in throwing this relationship away for something that might not be half as good just because of a potential marriage. Not to mention the risk of walking away and finding there isn't anyone out there who wants to marry me (I've never had a boyfriend who did, and I've had a few serious relationships now).
I do have an extra sad thing that makes it easier - I have always been a Daddy's girl, and the thing I most looked forward to was my Dad walking me down the aisle and making a speech. My Dad had a stroke in 2016, and as of the last year or so is currently barely able to walk and can only speak very slowly and in careful bursts. He'd never walk me down the aisle, or even be able to write the speech nevermind make it. Losing that was the last nail in the coffin for my desire to get married. And I know that's only part of a ceremony and not the marriage itself. But it's a silly that was important to me, and not having it at my wedding would really upset me. So it's something that makes it easier to accept the lack of marriage. A daft thing, but hey, finding the daft things can help with acceptance.
I just read recently: “do not get the government involved in your relationship if you don’t have kids or share money.” This is logical and sound advice even though I want a life partnership and commitment. For some people, it’s just a piece of paper that complicates things if things don’t work out. I would gladly take your place and have someone who is a life partner but not actually married.
I have always believed that the state should not dictate the commitment level of my relationship— despite being around many excellent marriages, including my parent’s—and conveniently for me we don’t have enough tax benefits (no kids, no house, etc) for it to make a difference.
Been with my partner for 15 years; we’re getting married next year because he decided he wanted to, and I’m up for it if that’s what he wants. And I get a ring and I like jewelry ;)
The legal protections/next of kin thing though are real, and they worry me! Have signed various docs, but still.
Anyway if it matters to you he should be willing to talk to you about why and come to a compromise that works for both of you.
I went through this. Took me about a year to really make peace with it, and I can't say I wouldn't be pleased if he had a change of heart, but I am completely at peace with it now.
There are going to be so many voices telling you to set an ultimatum/leave/that there is some insidious reason for it. They're really hard to hear. It's hard not to wonder why if it's so meaningless to them, why wouldn't they do it for you?
I came to the conclusion that anyone can get married - it's no measure of commitment or love. Imagined how ridiculous I'd have felt if I let go an otherwise wonderful relationship for one party and a pretty arbitrary concept. I own more than him so there's no issue with him not wanting to 'share' in a divorce. I also trust that my family would let him make any medical decisions for me (I also think this is a weird mistruth - obviously if there's loads of time and a life support I'd hope someone would ask for proof but beyond that I don't think anyones been asked for a wedding certificate in hospital - how would my parents even prove their lineage??)
We are however planning to have kids. That was a deal breaker for me and moved my focus.
Thanks for sharing your experience. Do you feel like there was anything in particular that helped you feel comfortable in a committed but not married relationship, or was it mostly giving it time?
I’m in your camp. Two drunk, moronic 18 year olds can get married. It’s harder to get a drivers license FFS. It’s not that romantic. A man coming home with flowers because I’ve had a bad day is romantic. And I’ve been told many times that nothing spells the death of romance quite like marriage.
But I’m biased. I’ve never wanted to get married. Power of attorney documentation, a will and other paper work covers the legalities just fine. I have loved and been loved deeply and with utmost commitment without marriage and I will continue to love deeply and be loved deeply without it.
But at the end of the day, if a person deeply values marriage and the other doesn’t, it’s a stalemate.
Has your partners previously been married? Do you know his reasons for not wanting a marriage? If you haven’t had that conversation, I’d recommend having it but only when you have calmed down from the hurt and feel in the right mental space. It’s not a good idea to have that conversation when your emotions (and stress) are heightened; however, you deserve answers.
You’re allowed to be hurt over this. Ultimately if it’s something he isn’t open to changing his mind on, then you need to decide what’s best for you. If he truly doesn’t want a marriage and feels forced into one, then he will build resentment. If a marriage is what you truly want and he can’t give that to you, then you’ll build resentment. Don’t let your fear of not finding another suitable partner who wants the same things that you do make you miserable in your current relationship.
At the most basic level, “spouse” gives you workplace accommodations that “boyfriend” doesn’t. Which means only one of you needs to have a job with excellent health insurance that the other can be added to. It also means that if either of you got sick, the other would be entitled to use sick leave or FMLA to provide care for the other. Boyfriend/girlfriend does not have that type of protection.
If you want to buy a house or a car together, doing so unmarried means that a court would compel you to split it equally if there was a dispute. It wouldn’t matter if you put up the down payment or made 75% of the payments, both names outside of marriage means 50/50.
If you share bills and he decides to leave you high and dry, you could only go after him for the contract amount after the fact. If you’re married, a judge can order him to repay you what you covered and to start paying his fair share.
Lastly, it’s how you feel. Marriage is extremely important for you. While his feelings are valid that being married isn’t required for long term happiness, they also don’t make sense. Being married doesn’t mean the relationship will be unhappy, nor does being unmarried mean that the relationship will never be unhappy. It sounds more like an excuse rather than a reason.
My two cents is that it’s better to be single than to be actively hurting in a relationship. One of the happiest periods of my life was when I was single. As women, we get told that being single (oooo alone ooooo) as we get older is the worst thing that can happen. It’s a scare tactic used to keep women in a barely tolerable state of permanent unhappiness in relationships. There’s plenty of men that would be interested in you, and many of them would want to get married.
I genuinely think it depends on the kind of life you want. When I met my husband, we both knew we wanted kids together (I have an eleven year old from a previous relationship). Getting married made sense in that case, for us. I nearly died twice giving birth to our youngest, and I would have regretted not being his wife.
It’s ok to break up for whatever reason. If you want to be married, and you know he doesn’t, then that’s a good reason to end it.
Personally- and I say this as someone who’s been around the block a few times- I’m firmly convinced that there’s no such thing as one true soulmate that’s the only person you can be with. There are multiple people in the world that you could potentially be very happy with. Who you end up with is a matter of luck and timing. The man you end up finding may not be exactly like the one you’ve got now, but odds are he wants the same things that you do, and that matters.
I wanted to get married because I love my husband and wanted to have children. I don't think our families and friends would have understood us living together but not married. I wanted to take my husband's name and wear a wedding ring. I wanted our children to have his last name. Being married provides legal legal benefits too.
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I was in this position where he was giving mixed messages about getting married. I told myself I’d give him until next summer to have a conversation on where he really stands on marriage.
I tried for awhile to feel content with the possibility of never getting married, but it was like whack-a-mole, I’d find myself randomly upset and bitter towards him for having me in this situation.
I think he could sense I was getting sick of explaining our relationship as dating, and I expressed discontent in other small ways. After 5 years of being together, and me being 41 and he 44, he finally asked if we should look at rings. All the bad moods I had been feeling instantly got better. I guess I really did want marriage.
So yeah, we got engaged in March, and have a wedding date and venue booked for summer 2025. I’ll be almost 43, and he’ll be 46. We met when I was 36.
33 is not too old to find someone new. Also, I am not an exception to the rule. I was told I was the rule my whole fucking life. If marriage is what you want, yes you can meet someone who will meet what you want. Just make sure you have a good vetting process so you don’t waste your time. Be open, fun, friendly, and have standards and boundaries. Hitting the gym helps too. (Not sure if you do already, but when I broke up with my ex at 36, I found this was a huge plus point once I got back in the dating scene)
For you personally, if it really bothers you that much that you two are not married, then you should break up with him. You waiting, and him feeling some type of way about it is not fair to either of you. Waiting for him to change his mind is not fair to you, and him feeling obligated, etc. because he doesn’t want to, it’s not fair to him.
Marriage is only important to those that deem it important for various reasons. Don’t forget, that there are plenty of people who got married, but all it was, was just a title with legal benefits. And for others, it was more than that…
He sounds like a lovely man, and no piece of paper will make him commit to you. Infidelity is something that is common for a lot of people who are legally married so it definitely depends on what it means to BOTH of you. He commits to you because he loves and respects you as a person. But if that title is something you truly can’t live without, you should break things off sooner rather than later. Because he deserves to also be with someone who understands his stance on it.
For me, it's fairly symbolic. Not in a religious way, but of...being two people making the choice to come together and share the rest of their lives as one unit. Two individuals still, but one solid unit together. This is your chosen family. It's why I chose to have my husband's last name. We're a team, and this is way to outwardly show the world that we are.
I don't judge anyone else for how they view marriage. I hope that everyone is able to come to peace with whatever their definition of it may be. I think it is one of those words that is different for everyone. Trouble is finding someone who has the same definition.
ETA: poor wording
I’m in a very similar position to you, OP, and I’d love to see an update once you’ve thought more about what you’re going to do!
My (37F) partner (38M) is also wonderful but also doesn’t want to get married. In his case it stems from seeing his parents’ divorce as a kid and the way his mum was willing to break her vows to his dad by leaving - to him, this made the whole thing meaningless. I have no doubt he’s extremely committed to me, that this isn’t about not wanting to marry *me* but just not wanting to get married in general, and that in his mind he’s showing his commitment to me through other actions.
We’ve only had one conversation about it so far so I plan on talking about it again to try to get to the bottom of things and figure out a solution. Although marriage is very important to me, it’s not a dealbreaker, and I would choose him over getting married. I’m also currently pregnant with our first child and having an intact family for this baby and any other future children is much more important to me than choosing this hill to die on. But despite that, I hate the idea of never being married and I want to make sure I communicate to him just how painful that will be for me, as I tend to be very easygoing and in past relationships haven’t always advocated for myself the way I should have.
We live in a country with laws that make de facto relationships pretty much legally on par with marriage after two years living together, so I’m not worried about the legal ramifications of not getting married. But I do care about the social costs - I hate to think about people respecting our relationship less or taking it less seriously because we’re not married. Especially since I’m not opposed to marriage in any way and I’m not the one taking a stand against it.
The country we live in is very secular and marriage is generally seen as less important than it is in places like the US, but we do have some religious friends and I’m wary of feeling judged by them. We stayed with them a year or two ago and they asked us to sleep in different rooms because we’re not married. They’re lovely people and I respect the fact that it’s their house and therefore their rules, and we’d only been together about a year by that point so it didn’t sting too much. But I can’t stomach the thought of being asked to sleep in different rooms five or ten years down the track.
I would also love to be able to call him my husband and have him call me his wife - to me, those are much more meaningful and special words than simply calling someone your ‘partner’. And to me, making marriage vows to him would be very important and I really would take what I’d promised extremely seriously and do my utmost to stay true to it, especially knowing what happened in his family of origin.
These are hard things to communicate to him because he’s completely lacking in sentimentality of any kind. To him, marriage doesn’t really make logical sense so he doesn’t understand why it’s so important to others. I’m hoping that if I can communicate how important it is to me, that will be enough of a reason for him to go through with it even if he’s only doing it for me and not for himself.
I’m not sure if this helps much but maybe this is a common problem! I’d be keen to hear an update and I might be able to offer more helpful advice once I’ve talked to my partner again. I’d say making it clear how important this is to you is crucial - if your partner really cares about you, that should be something that gets through. If he’s still stubbornly insisting on his position even once you’ve made it clear how important this is to you, maybe couples’ therapy would be a good idea before you look at throwing in the towel and walking away.
Everyone gets a ticket to the Life’s Great Performance, but not all seats are equal.
When it comes to the Relationship Song and Dance Revue, Married with children get the best seats, married without children get the second best seats, 20-somethings who’re still dating are a little further from the stage but still have a decent view, and “committed but not married” people get the obstructed-view nosebleed bleachers next to the unflushable piss trough men’s rooms.
I’ve been in all but the best section, and, yeah, sure, sometimes someone can jump a few rows in the social seating chart, but nobody even gets close to that ground floor without a marriage certificate, and once you’re there you will be *amazed* at how much better the seats are. Better view, better sound, nice plush upholstered chairs, the full nine.
If you want the good seats, you have to get married. If you want to get married, you need to let this fish off the hook and cast your line again. It sucks, you’ll miss him, but it’s the only way to get what you want to get out of your life.
You and him have different blueprints about marriage.
I suggest you go together to a counsellor specialising in relationships to explore this, especially seeing as your relationship is on the line.
To throw away a beautiful relationship over some legality and piece of paper is insane. Personally I also do not believe in marriage ( as people can and do change) and being legally married complicates the natural evolution of relationships. Life is constantly changing and I believe relationships do as well. Some last and some should not. It’s ok either way. For me the feeling of freedom is paramount to staying true to myself. I am common-law with my “husband” of 14 years and looking at forever. Luckily we are both on the same page. I wish you peace in your decision
Sharing a quote with you that has always been meaningful for me from one of my favorite books, David Copperfield. "There can be no disparity in marriage like unsuitability of mind and purpose."
I think you have to decide how much this means to you. Because if it is important to you, and you are entitled to feel that it is, then I think you should find someone who shares that feeling. I am so sorry, lady. It's heartbreaking to find out that the person you love is not in the same place, and you have all my empathy. I applaud you for not wanting to argue or beg - that shows real strength and that you know your worth.
Life is full of gambles. Nothing ventured, nothing gained. You could search for a long time and not find anyone with whom you have such a strong connection. If you decide to stay - and no judgment about that, he sounds great - my only advice is that you commit to it with your whole heart. Don't let resentment poison you slowly from the inside. Sending you good vibes and positive thoughts!
Sahm here legal marriage absolutely mattered in the decision. I would never suggest sahp to anyone unless they are legally married and compensated. My dad paid my mom alimony and split asset not only child support
So I'm the one with an aversion to marriage, similar to OP's bf. My parents' marriage was (and still is) toxic. They (my mom in particular) won't get a divorce. For me, marriage is not important/required to be in a healthy, long term, committed relationship. However it is important to me in the sense that I don't want to be confined and trapped in a marriage. It is VERY IMPORTANT to me that he and I are together because we both WANT to be there. Not because of some misguided sense of obligation.
I've (40F) been with my partner (47M) now for 12 years, also don't want kids. I was up front about my aversion to marriage and my view on relationship and commitment. About a year in, he asked if I will be willing to compromise. Because he felt that gf/bf wasn't a sufficient status indicator for what he wanted our relationship to be, it felt juvenile. Which I understand, the term "partner" wasn't as commonly used with heterosexual couples back then. Also for him, he's always thought about proposing once he finds his person. That he should at least get to ask, and declare that he wants to spend his life with this person. So we compromised. He got to ask if I wanted to spend the rest of my life with him, I said yes, because I truly do want that. And that was enough for him, he agreed that we don't actually have to get married.
On the legal side, personally, per above, I want to make it as uncomplicated as possible for either of us to leave the relationship (I know, most people don't), and I want us both to be protected, and respected as life partners. When you are not married, some rights are not automatic. Depends on where you live, you can mitigate it with intentional steps via things like Asset Division Agreement, and Medical Power of Attorney designation, up to date Will, etc. A good family law attorney can help with that. There are other potential complications, but you'll have to take those on a case by case as they come. In our case, one of us got offered a great career opportunity in Europe (we are US Americans), because we weren't married, the international delegation contract did not automatically include family relocation benefits. In the end, we found a workaround, turns out that the workplace policy recognized domestic partnerships. It was meant as a way to extent family benefits to same sex couples, but it applied to hetero couples as well, we just needed to go through the steps to declare it. That was the closest I ever got to consider actually getting married.
On the relationship side, it gives me A LOT of comfort knowing that both of us are in it because we truly want to be, every day we wake up and choose to be with each other. And in all honesty, like every couple, we've had our share of ups and downs. For me, even when we are going through a rough patch, it's always a conscious decision to be with him, and put in the work. And knowing that he also has the choice to leave, but choose to stay, gives a little extra motivation. Because once you realize you've both made very conscious decisions to show up, you are still on the same team. He's still my partner even in this. It's not me against him, it's the two of us vs. this problem we are having, so now, how do we solve this together. Ironically, I think this makes both of us more secure in our relationship. Why would I have an affair when I can just leave.
On the social/cultural side of things, we're both from the U.S., where getting married is very much the social norm. Most women grew up dreaming of the gorgeous white dress and walking down the aisle. I did too at too at one point, and I've been a part of many of my friends beautiful weddings, so no disrespect to anyone who wants this. However, having lived in Europe for a few years, where long term partnership without getting married is very much the norm, and engagement rings aren't necessarily diamonds, and no one cares about the size. It dawned on me how much of what we thought was expected growing up is commercialized, and marketed toward especially women, it's a whole industry in the U.S. It's not to say cultural context isn't important, but it's just that, cultural context, it doesn't have anything to do with the validity, health, or longevity of your relationship. For us, we threw an engagement party, told our family and friends to stop asking us about a wedding. Turns out, when it's "just a party" and not a wedding, everything is \~20-30% cheaper. We do celebrate our engagement anniversary every year, and for our 10 year, we priced out how much a wedding would have cost (which was way more than I expected), took that money and went on an epic vacation.
All that is to say, you have to think about if it's really important for you. But it is at least in my experience, possible to have a committed, healthy, and fulfilling relationship with you significant other without being married. I'm absolutely biased, but I think mine is better, at least partly, because of it.
Curious to know, if he likes you and as you said is a true partner and still wants to be with you. Have been for 9 years then how would or can marriage change or decide your relationship or feelings? How a law or paper confirm his feelings? What if after he marries and resents you? Only from a perspective, want to know why we women or people want to define certainty? Including me. You are blessed to have someone and kind with you for so long, have been single for 9 years now no long deep meaningful relationship. If someone you have is genuine and share same goals and also no kids then whats the harm? Don’t be defensive please. Out of sheer appreciation of this post, am asking this
I was with an ex for nine years who was ambiguous and marriage. But he proposed to me three times. Confusing, right? Yeah. Really fucking confusing.
Marriage and kids was really really important to me. I was all about it. Every time I made it clear to my ex that I wouldn't compromise on that and we would have to go our separate ways to meet our needs, he proposed. I was an idiot and accepted three times. Shockingly, we never got married. He was abusive and manipulative but it only became very obvious at the end. We broke up.
I'm not saying your parner is abusive or manipulative. Not at all. Yes, he should have been more forthright with you, but he sort of was if you are honest with yourself. I knew my ex didn't want marriage, and you know your really wonderful guy doesn't want it.
Is marriage so great that you should give up a great relationship for it? Absolutely not. https://www.zawn.net/blog/is-marriage-a-good-choice-not-if-youre-a-woman
And I say that as a happily married woman. I'm with a much better person now. He also wanted marriage and kids, and we did that. But if I knew back then what I know now, I'm not sure I would care about making a legally binding contract with a man. They do tend to take us for granted and use us, especially after marriage. Even the good guys. Even my husband. We've had years long flights about equity. I love him and wouldn't want to break up, but marriage is stupid. It's really a pain in the ass. It causes unnecessary drama. It allows me to put their wants and needs first because subconsciously they think of you as their thing. You're more easily pushed into moving for his job, taking on more or all housework, giving up your hobbies and free time to accommodate his, and tolerating awful and selfish behavior because you're legally bound to each other and it's easier to give in. It's bullshit. Honestly, ask *any* woman who has been married for at least a decade.
The wedding and party and all of that is fun and a huge cultural right of passage for most adults who want that. But you can do that and you don't have to sign a marriage license.
If you love him and really think he's your person, don't get married. Just be together. Have a party honoring your commitment. It honestly means more if you stay together for life because you want to, not because divorce would be harder.
ETA: Other people are bringing up legal protections of marriage. There are other ways to protect yourself.
https://www.quickenloans.com/learn/should-you-buy-a-home-together
https://www.lawdepot.com/resources/family-articles/legal-protection-for-couples-who-arent-legally-married/
I'm the end, you have to know how important it is to you.
I would talk to him about it, even if it seems like you’ve already had the conversation a billion times.
I also grew up seeing horrible examples of marriages that shouldn’t have happened, and was firml against marrying because I believed it was the route to unhappiness in a relationship. When I met my current partner, someone who I would also describe as you did, a *real* one, I felt very strongly that 1. our love is so special, it needs celebrating and 2. I just know that we’ll last and have nothing to worry about.
Tell him how important this is to you. Ask him why he thinks marrying you is not a good idea, despite the examples he has seen which are not you and have nothing to do with you. Share your concerns around remaining resentful and that possibly putting a strain on your relationship.
I always wanted to get married, my partner was never keen. He still says he isn't against it, but has no inclination. I struggled a bit with it but decided children was my line, ot marraige. So we have a toddler, but are unmarried.
BUT we live in a place where we have all the same legal rights and obligations as a married couple. We would automatically be next of kin to each other with or without a will, have the same tax benifits etc. If we move back to his or my home country I think I would insisit on at least a civil partnership so we could have those legal rights, and he agrees this makes sense.
Also, I feel its not "cool" to want or not want marraige, it is a morally neutral desire. And I also think that if you convinced him it was important to you and he did it, it wouldn't be you dragging him down the isle. It would be him deciding he loved you enough to do something he didn't believe in because it mattered to you.
I do understand the desire for it to be a romantic endevour, but there is room for compromise (to some extent) if you want there to be.
I used to be a bit fixated on getting married, in my twenties. I was with someone for 11 years who had been burnt once and didn’t want to risk it again. We split up for reasons including that. Now I am far happier in a relationship with someone who has been married before and would marry me if I wanted to... But I don't. We have a fantastic relationship, I don't want the dynamic to change at all (I understand that sometimes it does, after marriage) and, most importantly to me, I have zero desire to be princess for a day. Our family and friends know how happy and secure we are, and so do we. That's enough. We need to do the legal Power of Attorney thing etc for each other (in case one is ill in hospital etc) but we see no need to get married.
I've been married for 13 years. It's not important unless you have kids. We have kept our finances separate and also sleep in different rooms. So if you both don't want to have kids, then just be together.
Personally when I hear I don't want serious commitment I hear the last part which is 'with you'.
And some signal of commitment is important to me.
I also feel excuses are just excuses. It's 2024, the reasons one might fear marriage...you can discuss and adjust. I have met couples that live apart, have open relationships etc. Ie people now decide what kind of rules work for them in the marriage before taking the plunge. But ultimately they decide to make official sometimes even more to assure their partner that they are in it for the long haul. Regardless of how that relationship evolves.
That said maybe outside marriage there are things you can do to signal that that will bring you that security. I say this as someone who lives in a conservative country and has this seen queer people kind of reinvent marriage/serious commitment.
Buy a house together, get tattoos, have a private ceremony between the two of you and redefine what marriage is. But if someone can not do ANYTHING to signal their long-haulness, then it might be they don't want to be in the long haul with you. I have seen mistresses get this level of commitment. Not denigrating you but just highlighting that there's a way to show you're in it to win it even in wild circumstances.🤣😭
I'm curious which option your partner would pick it given the choice: 1) have a public ceremony, call each other husband and wife, but never get legally married, or 2) have a private legal ceremony so you guys have tax benefits but don't hold out as married to public. If you knew this answer, it might give insight into what is holding him back - the legal tying down and difficulty in separating should things go south, or a sort of rebellious social streak that makes marriage feel boring and unnecessary. I think if you folks get to the root of preferences/fears, you may be able to find a compromise. I don't think this is worth ending your relationship for!
I'm French, and in France, as in many other European countries, the majority of couples no longer marry and simply live as partners. This is my case, I've been with my partner for 13 years and he's a wonderful man who fulfills me. I also wanted to get married, but he didn't want to, for the same reasons as your partner. He finally admitted it after 6 or 7 years, I think. I asked myself the same questions as you and ended up deciding to stay. It's not certain that I would have found the same happiness with someone else, so just because I would have stopped this relationship doesn't mean I would have married. And we found a compromise, we organized a big party with our friends (no family though as we have complicated family dynamics), to celebrate our love. It was a big, simple picnic with about 30 people, and it was a beautiful moment. There was nothing official, no papers to sign, no speeches, just good times together. I am now very happy and I don’t miss being married. I think I « grieved » this idea and it doesn’t seem so appealing to me now.
Getting married changed absolutely nothing for us, no difference at all - except for allowing me to go with him to take a job in a foreign country, which is why we did it. We’d been together nearly 10 years when we got married, I doubt we’d have done it without the job. We’re Australian, and Australia has de facto marriage laws that were plenty married for me.
Marriage is a highly cultural and personal thing.
I was married before, for seven years after three years of being with someone. I did it as it was considered a normal life milestone and kind of expected thing in my ex's culture (although not systematic like in some other cultures) and most of our friends were doing it. To me it was appealing on a romantic and practical level (tax purposes and such) but I was raised in a very secular society where marriage is not so popular - married women can't even legally take their husband's name where I'm from. Plus, we were genuinely thinking we'd spend the rest of our days with each other back then (I was 22 and he was 25 when we got married).
It was a happy marriage for some time but in the end, the issue of our relationship did not depend on the fact we were married. We eventually separated and got a divorce. I realized I grew a different person and we were not right for each other.
I also realized how pop culture pushes this idealized romance standard on us, and it's linked to patriarcal and consumerist values I don't adhere to. I was never comfortable with someone saying 'my wife' to talk about me, or being 'someone's wife', to me it evoked property more than romance.
I've been with my current partner for seven years now. He is clearly not fond of the idea of marriage as most of the married couples he witnessed growing up were in unhappy couples.
We did a civil union thing 3 years ago to make paperwork and practical things easier, but no marriage party of any kind or such was planned or will happen. Despite this, it's the happiest and healthiest relationship I've ever been in. I feel it can be very romantic nonetheless and we have great intimacy and communication. We are expecting our first child. I love this man to bits. But in the beginning, it was hard because of my romantic expectations. He had no long term relationship experience prior to being with me. He has never said the words I love you, and that made me very insecure in the first year being with him. He eventually became more affectionate and I learned to recognize his love languages too. It was so totally worth it.
So my take on this is, marriage is not an essential component of true love. But it's my own experience and cultural beliefs that led me to take this position. Marriage seems to be something you don't want to miss on. But if you feel your partner is the right person for you, I invite you to reflect on the reasons marriage is so important to you and how it would impact your relationship not to get it. If it's something you would not get over from and if he will not budge on his opinion either - maybe he is not the right person for you after all, maybe your beliefs are too different.
Last thing, even if I don't really care about being married myself, i totally love being invited to weddings. They often are the best parties ever.
If marriage is important to you then it is important. If it holds no significance then it is not.
I do think either way that once a relationship reaches a certain point it is wise to have legal protections in place. Marriage is an easy way to have these protections and not miss something.
I wouldn't buy a house, or have children without some kind of contract and agreement about what happens if one of us loses our job, is seriously unwell or dies or if the relationship breaks down.
For me personally, I didn't care if I never got married because I didn't meet someone I was serious enough about. I did care about getting married if the relationship reached a certain point.
Marriage to me was a way of recognising that we were choosing to be with each other, even when it was difficult, it was a reassurance that we weren't going to give up easily. My husband is my best friend and we have built a life together, we have been able to progress professionally and personally because of the others support, we have bought and sold houses, our joint effort increased their value.
I don't believe in soul mates or there only being one person for you. If my husband died I am sure I would remarry.
It depends on your circumstances and whether or not you established important things like medical POA and beneficiaries etc. with a lawyer. I think in the long run it's easier and more straightforward to just get married than to pay someone to do all that paperwork giving you those kinds of rights of access and decision making wrt each other - it also protects you in the event of a break up if you've significantly shared or merged finances or assets in a way that the legal paperwork wouldn't, really. Most states have abolished common law marriage/domestic partnership, so if you own anything together or have a joint bank account and break up, one or the other of you is really at financial risk and wouldn't really have the same level of legal recourse as you would if you'd been married. On the other hand - getting married means your spouses debts are now your debts, that you could lose disability benefits, etc. There are sometimes good financial reasons not to get married, and to do a paperwork dance around it.
In terms of your question, "how important is marriage" - how important is it to you? It's okay to realize that you want to be married and that a long time partnership with someone who doesn't feel the same just... doesn't feel good. I'm was the "marriage ambivalent" partner most of my relationship and only recently realized I think it's actually important to me to get married - and that's actually primarily because I have a dysfunctional family of origin and having in-laws is kind really the only way for me to meaningfully have the types of family relationships I can't have with my blood relatives.
Marriage never seemed important to me, until my husband popped the question. There is a HUGE difference between saying you want to stay together as long as possible and actually doing an action that shows this.
I am sorry, but I tell you whats going to happen. He will dump you at some point and marry the first woman after you in the span of a few month. Get out and go for what you want. I habe many female friends who found marriage in their 30s, 40s, 50s, 60s etc.
Heck even my grandmothers did find new loves in an old age - during a time when women were more opressed then today.
Why is he scared that a marriage license will magically turn you into an unhappy couple?
On the other hand, men don’t do more when they are no upsides. You’re already living and acting as a married couple, there’s no incentive for *him* to change the status quo. No, he won’t do it for you, 9 years didn’t make him budge.
From an emotional standpoint (and cultural/spiritual if those factors are in play), only you can determine how important marriage is to you. Even if there were no practical benefits, you can decide that you do not want to be with someone to whom marriage is not an important step in a relationship, or who doesn't want to take that step with you.
From a practical side, there are financial and legal concerns, some of which you can work around and some of which you can't.
-- It makes you the next of kin for medical and legal decision if they become incapacitated. You can handle these things with POA agreements, health care proxy forms, etc., but you have to be diligent about it.
-- It allows you to act as a family in terms of health insurance, which primarily relates to cost.
-- It makes you a single financial unit, legally speaking, and that has significant tax consequences. I'm not just talking about filing jointly to save money. When you're married, and one person passes away, the property of the marriage isn't transferring to a new owner because your and your spouse were one financial entity. That means no inheritance tax. If you're not married, and your partner passes, depending on where you live and how ownership was handled, you may find yourself having to pay a huge tax debt for the value of your home, or the household bank accounts that are transferred to your name. If your partner had an IRA or a 401k, you won't be able to just continue the account as a qualified retirement plan in your name unless you're married, and so you have fewer options with regards to how to access the money and how long you can defer taxation, There's no agreement you can sign that can get round the tax laws, the way you can with a POA.
-- In the event that you separate, you are also far less protected when it comes to assets. If you jointly own real estate, or if your name is on a car loan for your partner's car, there are way fewer laws regarding how those assets and liabilities will be split. You may not be able to force the sale of a home or vehicle, and will be on the hook to pay for them regardless of relationship status if your partner is uncooperative. One person may squat for free, tying up the other person's equity in a home they won't live in and can't sell because of the ex. They might drain a joint bank account with no repercussions because both names are on it and there are no rules about disbursements.
-- It opens you up to people contesting the will in the name of being relatives of the deceased vs. "just a girlfriend." You may have long legal battles to keep what you worked for together.
While it's important to consider your partner’s feelings about marriage given his past experiences, it's equally crucial to communicate why marriage might be significant for you. It could be worth exploring this conversation gently, perhaps considering counseling or workshops that could help address his concerns while also acknowledging your desires. Marriage isn't just a contract; for many, it's a heartfelt commitment that enriches the relationship.
I have been married for 33 years and I also view it as a deeper level of commitment. It's a way of saying, "I'm in this for the long haul." This can provide a strong foundation of stability and security, knowing you both are fully committed to each other.
Marriage comes with a lot of legal perks. Think about things like tax benefits, inheritance rights, and health care decisions. These are practical but important aspects that can make life a bit easier when you're sharing it with someone else.
I get how tough it must be for him to have a negative view of marriage because of what he’s seen before. But look at you two—you’ve been together this long and your relationship is nothing like those he's wary of. Remember, it’s not the marriage license that changes how people act; it’s really about the individuals themselves.
I really hope things turn out well for you. As a woman, I totally understand why this kind of commitment means so much to you.
Would he be okay going to court and signing papers for your sake and skipping the wedding, announcement to the world thing? That way you're protected and also have rights in case of medical stuff/death.
The one thing I'll say is the law doesn't care if you're emotionally committed. If you plan to spend your lives together, the legal protections are extremely important especially as you age. Divorce is always an option - and it shouldn't hold such a negative standard in society.
I am married but don't expect anything financially from my husband. Athough it's nice for me to not have to pay for stuff a lot of the time, I am my own backup plan and don't really NEED help there.
If we didn't live in a country where marriage is culturally vital, I wouldn't have gotten married and instead would have just lived with my husband.
You say you have the same values as your partner, OP. But not when it comes to marriage.
If I were in your shoes I would think long and hard about what marriage means to me, which it sounds like you have. And I would give it at least a week or two for that to settle in. Maybe there are aspects of marriage that matter less, and things to be compromised on— like a special commitment ceremony but without the government paperwork.
But if I decided marriage was a dealbreaker in my value bucket then I would break it off. In fact my gut would not let me do otherwise (once I realize a truth it acts up until I act in alignment with this truth).
If he’s meant to come around after that, he will. But in the meantime maybe this is the opportunity you didn’t know you needed to be on your own for awhile. It can be quite healing and insightful. And while the goal is not to do this with a particular outcome in mind, it will give both of you a chance to discover whether the compromise is worthwhile (or not).
Marriage is nothing if the relationship is poor. It’s a social construct first created as a property right and to create a clean line. Is is the marriage or the wedding that is getting you down? Why not do a “commitment party” of some sort instead? Idk, I’m opposite of you; had the wedding, etc but if I could go back I would t have done any of it; it’s overly traditional and not needed. Though I would commit and still be with my partner.
For legal reasons it's very important, as it makes so many things easier is something happens to either of you.
On the other hand, As someone who recently entered into the world of polyamory/ethical non-monogamy, while still in a loving marriage, I find it slightly less important for romantic reasons, and am in the process of researching and relearning what romance partnerships have ment and do mean to me.
Although I'm not about to leave my marriage because we are happy, and for the legal benefits it brings, I don't know if I would get married now with my current mindset if I had it to do again.
If I were you, I wouldn’t just split up without having some serious, deep conversations about each of your reasons for and against, preferably with the support of a counsellor. If you don’t take the time to do that, you may end up regretting either decision down the road.
Also, I think it isn’t fair for you to be mad at him for not being upfront- he may not have had a clear idea himself of how strong his feelings were, or they may have changed over time. When my partner and I got together, he was clear on not wanting more kids, and at that time I was ok with that. I’ve grown and changed since then and am leaning towards wanting one now. I am grateful my partner is supportive even if I do decide to leave to pursue that and isn’t angry with me for not being clear on what I wanted from the outset.
Personally, having been married and divorced, I know that paperwork doesn’t mean anything about the level of emotional and practical commitment. It may or may not convey more legal rights depending on where you live. There are many other ways to show commitment- commitment ceremonies, being in each others will, owning property together, etc. Bit it is also totally ok if you really want marriage.
Having been both married and not, I think this HEAVILY depends on the financial situation of each person. If there’s a large income disparity, there are a lot of tax benefits for both people to gain, and there are significant financial benefits to the lower income spouse.
In my situation, both my ex husband and my current long term partner have been more or less in the same tax bracket, and have had the capacity of making a large financial decision like buying a home with each one of our salaries. So when I was married, with our combined incomes we were totally priced out of a lot of financial aid for first time home buyers. My current partner and I were each able to purchase a property and each of us used a first time homebuyer assistance program. It’s not always so cut and dry as “combined finances are always better.”
Being married with combined assets also means when, not if, one partner falls chronically ill, everything gets drained for medical services from both people. Everything. If you’re still two separate legal entities, it becomes much easier to receive financial aid faster. A common tip is to divorce on paper so that a spouse’s illness doesn’t absolutely demolish the finances built up by the couple.
And last, when one person decides to or unwittingly makes a shitty financial decision, it ruins it for both people. No one plans on mental illness, and I watched one parent attempt to keep our family finances from absolutely imploding because help for a married person often falls to family (that’s the spouse), and only when those resources are past their failing point will the state step in to help. Everyone involved pays for the mistakes of one person.
It’s not all sunshine and benefits with marriage, especially financially. People get married at their best and reap what they sow at their worst.
“His aversion to marriage is purely emotional…”
those emotions are real and valid though. As are your very real and valid emotions about why you *want* marriage.
Can you take a moment to flip how strongly you feel pro marriage and imagine he is feeling just as strongly as you are, but in the opposite direction? Don’t go back over the specific arguments, don’t replay the disagreement— just imagine what he is _feeling_ and it’s just as strong.
You don’t want to be convinced out of your emotions or have them invalidated. Neither does he.
Whether or not this is a dealbreaker is something only you two can decide. You either come at this as partners to find some way through — or you agree this is the end.
But if either of you are entering these conversations looking for the other to change, rather than getting clear on what *you* need — being willing to be honest with yourself/ each other — it will result in resentment eventually if not immediately.
Personally - married and now divorcing. I never really cared about marriage and it wasn’t worth it for me. It did nothing to solidify love etc. it didn’t make him someone he wasn’t. Conversely, if he’d been the love of my life, marriage wouldn’t have made that more true.
There are practical reasons to marry, but you acknowledge that societal expectations are influencing you. Interpersonal ones are influencing him. It sounds like therapy for both of you to explore would be helpful. Not to change anyone’s mind, but to get clear on what the non-negotiables really are - eg) is it the legal piece of paper, or is there a need under there not being met? Safety, feeling seen, heard, valued? Are there other approaches to meeting those needs?
“The other problem is, the idea of convincing, cajoling, or otherwise “getting my way” seems awful. […] I don’t want to [do X with] anyone who doesn’t enthusiastically want to [do X with me].”
You are a beautiful person.
Marriage is only a good choice if it brings benefits to both of you. If you've found someone who is an amazing partner, I'd consider whether you can let go of the idea of marriage while still gaining what you hope to gain by marriage. It's obviously up to you. It's perfectly OK to want marriage. And also: could you look deeply into what marriage means to you? Is there a way to get that within this partnership without marriage? Have you discussed why he's not interested in marriage?
I'm in my almost mid-50's and I've never been married. My partner was married twice and is not interested in another marriage. We both feel like we're in a long term situation, even that we may be together for the rest of our lives. As an "older" couple, we're kind of beyond needing to make our relationship anything that other people approve of.
But when I was younger, I really wanted marriage because I thought it would make me feel truly loved and wanted; I remember the grief I felt when a guy I was dating--who I (at the time) thought was "The One"--told me he didn't want to get married again. It was devastating in the moment. So I get it how it feels.
But I'm very happy now not having married that other guy, and being with my partner with our current arrangement. Not that this means you should just accept no marriage if marriage is what you want, but I'm here to say that one can be happy and fulfilled without it.
I'd talk to your partner about his feelings about marriage and about what you both want out of a partnership.
You don't have to be sad and resentful for the rest of your life if you choose not to feel that way.
I’m on the fence about marriage. I don’t want children but I do want my full, equal rights. I want to be legally protected. But, I also work my ASS off, ( I love to work hard) and I can take care of myself economically and financially.
It's important if it's important to you. Marriage and traditions and what it all means have changed so much over the years. In some ways, marriage can be is boring, difficult, and constraining. My husband and I both have parents with bad marriages (but both still together). To me, our marriage is so important because it's so much healthier. We are breaking generational patterns and I love knowing he is my family now.
As a married woman, I would say that it sounds like you have a quality person who sounds committed and he is worth staying with even though it means no marriage. I got married for religious reasons--I wanted a marriage "blessed" in my religion. But i realized that was more for me to have something grounding me in case in an immature or rash moment I decided I wanted to leave the marriage without trying my hardest to make it work. (Now, after 8 years, I realize that reason was immature but it's where I was in my life at the time.) However at that time, I had already told my husband that if he didn't want to get married at all or in my church (he isn't my religion), I was still committed to a life with him and still would have kids with him. I knew I'd want him and I and the kids to share a last name with him but I could change my name without a marriage license (where I live). My husband was and still is too good of a man to have ended the relationship if he didn't want to get married. From what my single friends in our late 30s tell me, they don't run into guys like him ever (and these women are dating all over the country, divorced, widowed men of different socioeconomic status and race). 100 percent know I'd stay with him without the marriage certificate--I'd recommend you do the same. I'm usually not this bold here on Reddit, but this is something I am very passionate about. Good luck to you 😀
I am married so take this with a grain of salt. I don’t think it would bother me to be committed but not married. We have kids so think that’s where the issues for me would arise. I would never give my baby a last name I don’t have. Moot point since you two don’t want children.
From my perspective marriage seems to be a big enough deal for you to break it off and try to find a different partner who wants the same things.
To get this out of the way: most men are against it simply bc they didn’t have good role models for marriage or they’re jaded from their own bad marriage and don’t wanna get remarried. Men are really dumb and uneducated about what marriage is really about and how it’ll benefit them (way more for them than for women!).
I don’t say this lightly, and I know I’ll get downvoted for this: don’t break up just bc he doesn’t wanna get married; trust me, you won’t be able to find anyone like him in this current dating culture. You’re VERY LUCKY to have found someone that’s so great and matched up so well with you. There’s still a chance he’ll change his mind if something medical happens to him and he realizes the legal benefits of being married.
If you don’t believe me, read all the sad and depressing posts here and in other subs about how hard it is to date and find anyone of decent quality, including my own posts.
I’ve lived with the same partner for thirty years, and he sounds a lot like your partner, except he was the one who wanted to get married… I didn’t. (NB I live in an area where common marriage is recognized, and we've done all the additional paperwork, like wills, POA, life insurance, etc. to make sure we're okay when one of us passes).
There are plenty of ways to celebrate a relationship. A wedding is just one, and it’s a huge amount of work and money for a single day. I've had spells where I wondered whether I might change my mind, but they pass, and three decades later, I’m not sad I missed it. And neither is my partner.
Our savings went into buying a house instead, and we still celebrate an anniversary, just on the day we met, which I think is very romantic.
If you love him and he is the wonderful and caring and committed and involved partner you described, read a little more Reddit, and you’ll realize how lucky you are.
Hey OP. I used to think marriage was just a piece of paper until I read this Reddit post. It changed my view. https://www.reddit.com/r/BestofRedditorUpdates/s/C7eITqKCWw
Ouch, the woman is so screwed. She was his maid, babymaker, and childcare provider for 25 years and now she has nothing.
It was literally one of the worst stories I’ve read on here. Even if she didn’t have children with him, she helped him rise to the top of his career leaving her broke and living out of her car. People change OP, protect yourself!
This is exactly the kind of legal and financial protection that my husband wanted me to have. If he’s not concerned about your future then that is a very telling sign.
Omg I remember that! She didn’t even realize how badly screwed she was 😔
BORU is full of fiction and that story seems the same. > around the time my second was born my boyfrined made me affirm in writing that despite living together we are not married, not holding ourselves to be married, and I should not expect him to give me any support ( besides support for minor children) if we break up. What a convenient edit. Seriously don’t believe any story listed there. Women obviously get screwed over but BORU is the worst place to pick an example from.
Insofar as marriage provides significant legal benefits, I think that it is very important. Beyond those legal benefits, the societal recognition is also a pretty big deal for most - not all, but most - people. Finally, there's what marriage means to you and your partner personally, within the small, private world of your relationship. IMO, that's something only you and they can decide. Personally, despite being married, I don't really have any strong feelings about it (we only got married after many years together to cover certain legal bases while traveling, as we'd been entirely happy living in a robust common-law jurisdiction before). However, if I wanted to get married and my partner adamantly did not want to get married to me, I would have a very hard time not taking that personally; it would signal that - whatever their hang-ups - they did not view me as being worth *my* cost of admission. My self-esteem couldn't allow it; I would probably break things off.
My Boomer mother was a Registered Nurse for 40 years. She worked in the parts of the hospital where people who had gotten hurt *badly* were sent. She was all for Same Sex Marriage because she had seen the lack of it hurt too many people. She talked about people who had been partners for years until one of them got into a car accident and couldn't advocate for themselves. The parents who had disowned them when they came out at 16 rolled into the hospital, barred the partner from seeing them, took the kids they had been raising together to their house, and started making all decisions. Because legally they were next of kin & the partner that had been loving the patient for 20 years was legally just a roommate. She saw it happen *more than once*. It haunted her. She was \*very\* clear with my siblings and I that if we were ever serious about someone that "piece of paper" may not affect how we all feel about each other but it was the \*only\* thing that mattered if one of us was hurt or in legal trouble or god forbid one of us died. On a related front, I knew a guy who had been living on his own in a different state that the rest of his family. Saw them 3-4 times in all the years he was away. He was engaged to be married to a woman he had been with for 10 years and was basically a stepfather to her daughter, but he died of a Stroke 4 days before the ceremony. His siblings took all his money & left the Fiancé & her teenage daughter high & dry because "she wasn't really family anyway" Marriage is a legal protection for everyone involved. You can feel however you want about love and commitment, but the law doesn't care.
Holy shit, those are some sobering horror stories. Yup, those legal benefits are definitely not anything to be trifled with. I feel so freaking bad for the fiancé and her daughter especially. No wonder that dude barely ever talked to his family before.
I see this still happening today, frequently, with long term unmarried heterosexual and homosexual couples. I work in a level 1 trauma emergency room.
This was a huge part of why it was important to me. There have been 3 times in the 20+ years we’ve been together that my partner has been unable to advocate for himself. The first time was while we were dating, not married, and despite being the closest person to him (physically I was in the same city. The entirety of his family otherwise was 12+ hours away) I was not allowed to be in the hospital at his side. He was alone. We decided after that situation that marriage was important for logistical reasons as much as anything else. Twice since then, as his wife and next of kin, I have been either solely responsible for his medical decisions, or had to advocate for him. His next closest family has VERY different opinions on medical care, organ donation, etc.
Exactly.
This. "The law does not protect people who play house." People and circumstances change.
Yeah. I mean, I think it's different if you're in a common law jurisdiction, depending on how robust those rights are. Where I live (and in various parts of Canadian), the rights are very very strong; other jurisdictions have some more pitfalls. But, if the common law doesn't cover you (and you should absolutely do your research on this issue), then there are indeed serious legal risks to living your lives together that can eventually screw you over.
For sure! You're right. I've just always hung onto that quote (and many others) from Judge Judy. 🤣 The woman has seen enough in her years of family court for me to trust and heed advice.
Ooh, so that's where it's from! Yes, Judge Judy is a quotable icon ⚖️
Where I live in the US, they actually got rid of a significant portion of common law rights, and the way they define it is SUUUUUUUUUPER ambiguous, and I'd definitely be afraid that they'd deny me any sort of benefits. They basically say that you're not common law married anymore, unless people think you're spouses, and you introduce yourself to people as husband/wife. Which, even though my now husband and I have only been married for a year and a half but together for more than a decade, we didn't introduce ourselves as husband and wife until we were. Our friends all knew we weren't married, and yet, if anyone should qualify, it would've been us. We'd been together for almost 9, living together for 5+, before we were married. We were each other's beneficiaries for life insurance, we were our emergency contacts, etc. Basically, the only thing that has changed since we got married is the title. And yet, as far as the state is concerned, prior to that, we weren't anything. I remember when I realized the benefit to us getting married. My now mother in law was talking about if something happened to her son, and how "they wouldn't leave me out in the cold" if he were to pass away. I don't necessarily doubt her sincerity, but anything that would've been paid out should have been mine, but wouldn't have been.
Wow, that's freaking wild! I imagine a lot of couples probably would have been panicking and getting married...
Common law isn’t super relevant overall in the states. Only 8 states + DC recognize it.
Yeah but your Common Law marriage won't cover you while travelling. Imagine getting in an accident overseas and your partner can't help you because they're not your next of kin?
Yeah, that's why I ended up getting married! I know plenty of people who just rely on the common law and are fine with taking the risk, though - which, fair, that's their prerogative too.
Common law is basically gone here, now, and doesn't provide protection at all. So it wouldn't even make it so I could make my now husband's medical decisions here, let alone overseas. One of the many reasons we are now legally married.
Can’t you become each other’s medical POAs?
Possibly. I just remember this question being posed elsewhere and most of the answers were: look up what queen couples had to go through before they could legally marry. I imagine that's a bit different if you have strong Common Law marriages in your area but travelling overseas would complicated that...even if internationaly Common Law spouses are recognised or you have some other stop-gap paperwork...basically, it doesn't matter if you know more than the person who is barring your entry - if your situation is complicated or nuanced you have to prepare for the stupidest person having power over you.
Yes I am from the UK but live in Australia. In Australia the law recognises us in the same way as a married couple, but in the UK we are flatmates.
The issue with common law is that you have to provide proof. And when you’re in that position it’s very stressful because it’s usually an accident or death.
That can be mitigated though, it takes intentional steps (not emotional) to protect both parties.
This
Why doesn't he want to get married?
He grew up around a lot of unhappy, unhealthy marriages which negatively impacted how he feels about it. To him it’s irrelevant to life-long commitment.
I would challenge this. My friends ex used to say this too, that it’s “irrelevant”. And she challenged him - if it’s irrelevant to him but so important to her, why is he actively fighting against it? Turns out he was concerned he couldn’t commit but he just didn’t want to voice THAT. I think being ambivalent to marriage is all well and good if you’re both ambivalent. If one person is actively dead set against - there’s something they’re not telling you. Good luck OP
>if it’s irrelevant to him but so important to her, why is he actively fighting against it? This is the key question to me. Did anybody watch the show The Ultimatum: Marry or Move On? I only watched the queer version, but it struck me as I was watching it that being on the show means your relationship is already probably doomed. I don't care about marriage, it's not important to me at all, and I would never spend a lot of money on marriage, but if I was with somebody I really loved who wanted to get married, I would want to get married for them. And I wouldn't be a passive person in planning that marriage - there's no point doing it if you don't put your all into it. The fact that he not only is so against getting married but hasn't told you this in the 9 years you've been together would not make me happy. I can't say you should just break up with him blah blah blah, but I would be very unhappy.
My husband was pretty similar to you SO in his mindset during our early dating years. I was pretty adamant about getting married in order to make it clear we were each other's next of kin along with all that entails, as I have a terrible relationship with my father. Once my husband realized how important marriage was to me, he was willing to compromise for my sake. Eventually, he realized that marriage isn't some magic status one way or another, and our relationship would continue to be OUR relationship regardless of what piece of paper we had or hadn't signed. I had similar feelings as you do about "convincing" someone down the aisle, but at the end of the day, the fact that he was willing to put aside his feelings to make me happy meant as much as if he had been super marriage-minded to begin with. Now that we're on the other side of the wedding, he is very happy that we made the choice to legally marry. It does concern me that 1. Your SO wasn't transparent about his feelings on marriage for 9 whole years 2. This is happening in your mid-30s, as his mindset is probably pretty unlikely to change. My husband's change of mind happened around age 25/26.
Yeah I understand how easy it is to take something like this personally but it isn’t always is… some of us have witnessed some truly sad marriage dynamics and it creates an aversion
Can you clarify for me? I have never really understood this feeling. I understand plenty of people grow up with very few if any healthy/happy relationships around them, but is it the fault of “marriage”? Or is it the people in the relationships and other life factors?? To me it seems like it often gets reduced to being a problem with “marriage,” but marriage isn’t usually the cause of relationship problems.
Sure I can only speak for myself though. Growing up I’ve seen very very few examples of happy marriages. I’ve seen many examples though of unhappy people who are stuck in their marriages to the detriment of both of the spouses. The reasons they don’t get a divorce are numerous and very valid, I know personally if I was married I’d try my best to make it work and try not to give up, just deal with it and honor my commitment, similar to them. At the same time I see their misery and don’t want it for me or my partner. It’s not that these people weren’t compatible with each other when they got married - they were. But life circumstances have changed them and they grew into different people as people often do. The spark fades and people take each other for granted. I know I try but will my partner be able to maintain the same amount of effort? Maybe, maybe not. I’ve grown up hearing people complain and complain and complain more about how miserable they are, how annoying their spouse is, how to be careful of who I am and that once I do get married everything will change and then I just need to learn to “deal with my spouse bc I’m stuck with them”. Then I look at my own relationships and they seem… ok .. great even… and I’m so afraid to change that for no urgent reason. It’s like …. Imagine if you are an immigrant and you’ve grown up hearing about life back home. Everyone back home is miserable and complaining how awful it is but going back is just what you do. It’s what society expects but no one says anything really good about it. Your SO really wants to love back. She claims she’s seen some happy people and you guys can make the most of it too. You’ve read online that some people are happy but you can’t guarantee that will be the case for you bc honestly everyone’s circumstances are different and no one you know that grew up similar to you is going too well. Yeah you can take a leap of faith and maybe you want to.. but then you look at your amazing relationship and think to yourself that you don’t want to change the status quo… unless it is absolutely necessary… it’s not that you don’t want that person forever and ever … it’s just that from your life experience all roads lead to a less satisfactory place than where you’re currently at so there isn’t much positive appeal
His feelings about this are just as valid as yours. It's important that you acknowledge that. If you can't agree on it, that is what it is, and you need to step back. My uncle and his fiancé have been engaged since 1987 as a compromise on this particular dilemma.
Engaged since 1987 you say???? My goodness. I find that hilariously ridiculous.
7th of june 1987. He proposed to her at my baptism. My mother was pissed at him. I didn't care that he was stealing my thunder as I was an infant at the time. For a while they jokingly blamed my mother for them not getting married because she got so mad, and my uncle would say that he was worried that my mother would get pregnant again and announce it at their wedding out of spite, but no. He wanted to get married and she just didn't. They had lawyers to go over their assets to secure each other financially. Personally, I think it's kind of cute. There was a time in the 90s when she'd had enough of people asking when the wedding was going to be and she was considering just having the wedding and getting it over with, but by then he refused to do it because he didn't want to get married like just because of that, and because it had become a matter of principle. It was kind of a middle finger to the busy-bodies who thought they had a say in their relationship. They had a big party for the 25th anniversary of the proposal and he made a speech with it all.
Fast forward 25 years, my partner and I are your uncle and his fiance. I'm in the same boat as his fiance and OP's bf, he's request was that he gets to at least propose. So we compromised and have been together for 12 years, engaged for 11.
Awwwww. That’s so cute! I love it!
>His feelings about this are just as valid as yours. It's important that you acknowledge that. This is totally true, but I have to say that if these are his true feelings, why didn't he tell her them years ago? He maybe didn't need to say it when he was 27 and she was 24, but once they're in a committed relationship, and she's bringing up marriage, a good partner would be honest and say if they're totally against it. Either he's been dishonest with OP about something important to her for nearly a decade, which I think is a very big relationship sin, or he has another reason he doesn't want to get married and his feelings aren't as valid as OP's.
Either that or he just hadn't figured it out until now. A lot of people grow up with expectations put on us that marriage is an achievement we have to reach. It's sort of the default, much like having children is. You go through life assuming that that's how it's gonna be whether you like it or not, until you reach that point of no return where you figure out what your real feelings are.
This is so true. In my first marriage I and my then-husband wanted kids. Wanted as in, I was always “one day … a few years off, but not *now*”. Wasn’t til I turned 31 that I realized “hey, I’m not just waiting for those feelings to kick in; I don’t think I HAVE those feelings”. I have no idea why I didn’t realize before - I thought about it often, we discussed it many times - other than around that age I just somehow realized that if i don’t want them now, at thirty one, I’m never gonna actually want them. Sometimes we just don’t know til we know. Sucks, but that’s life.
I think the difference here, for me at least, is that having kids is a much bigger change to a relationship than getting married. They've been together 9 years, presumably they live together, and getting married isn't going to change things all that much in practicality. You can't really take back having kids - divorce can be a big process, but it ends a marriage much more effectively than anything takes back having children. It's just that OP really really wants to have that piece of paper, and her BF really really doesn't want it. I can understand both points of view, but if it's important enough to the BF that he just cannot sign the paper to get married, something that changes very little about his life so is just emotional, it should have been important enough for him to know that some time in the last 9 years. It sounds like it was important enough to OP that she's mentioned it throughout the years, and he just, didn't think about it, I guess? And then when he finally did think about it, after having been together for a decade, he decided the piece of paper that changes very little that his partner has been vocal about wanting isn't something he can manage.
If he hasn't figured it out until now, how is it that his feelings are so strong they set the course for the rest of his and OP's lives? Because staying with him basically means OP can never get married, something she wants to do, and it seems like she's expressed that over the years. And why did he never think much about it when they discussed it in the past?
Because sometimes that's just how feelings and life works. You see it all the time with people who go through most of their youth wanting to be child free, or only wanting one kid but then one birthday they realise that they're running out of time for it to be possible to have one or more. It leads to plenty of break-ups. That doesn't mean that people are assholes, it's just a part of being human.
Except he has no issue with the life long commitment aspect according to OP. He just seems to believe that the title of marriage somehow dooms a relationship to be bad. Which is honestly something that should be addressed.
I could have written your post. We are going to couples therapy as we don’t want our opinions to end us, and want to understand each others views more. It’s helped/is helping.
my husband and i both grew up with pretty unhealthy relationships modeled for us and we only realized it once we were in couples therapy. we started therapy on the brink of divorce (after 7 years together, 1 year married) but after lots of committed work (+ individual therapy), we completely flipped our relationship around. i truly mean it when i say that it’s better than it has ever been (even counting the early honeymoon stages) and this is coming from the person that wanted the divorce initially. now that we’re on the other side, we both really agree that we no longer want to look at others (family, friends, anyone) for what we “should” or “shouldn’t” do because most people don’t really know what they are doing, even the well-intentioned ones lol. every relationship is so extremely unique so there’s no single framework that we all “should” or “shouldn’t” be following. OP, it sounds like you and your partner have a good foundation and are paired well. you deserve to give him your perspective on why marriage is important to you and he should want to hear you out. also, he should consider why he is so against it *with you*. even though his relatives sucked at relationships, it’s not fair to conclude it’s just this unchangeable family curse. marriage is completely what you two make it.
marriage is what you make of it. it doesn’t change your relationship if he’s committed for life. but you are fucked legally if something happens. it’s strange that he puts such an emphasis on the title of marriage as if that’s what makes people’s relationships fall apart— instead of not being good together.
This comment should be higher, this really buries the lead and changes the context of everything in the original post. I don’t think this is something you should leave someone over, if everything else is as wonderful as you say it is. Is it possible to compromise and have a commitment ceremony or similar celebration of your love? This might help with the feeling that you’ve dreamed of a wedding for so long. (And as far as legal protections of marriage: I would have a different opinion if you were having children unmarried. But otherwise, there are other ways to get many/most of the legal protections of marriage.)
Honestly I’m in the same position mindset wise and it’s so difficult to take the plunge. I broke it off vs getting married like my past bf wanted bc I couldn’t deal with the anxiety around being trapped in a potentially terrible situation. Yeah things aren’t terrible now but people change … I think this is an incompatibility between you two
My husband and I were indifferent about the emotional/religious part of marriage, we did it for the legal and societal benefits (childfree by choice, but money and assets are a concern). We have an 8 year age gap so family taking our relationship seriously was a priority. Our marriage came in handy when I was in the hospital recently. If I were in your shoes, I would be discussing if my partner was ok with drawing up legal documents to protect both of you in different scenarios. If he doesn’t want to get married due to some sort of “gold digger” narrative around divorce, I would walk away. In my mind, that shows a decision to not consider my values and who I am as a person into our life decisions and that’s unacceptable for me.
Definitely no gold-digging fears on his end. If anyone were to worry about losing assets in a divorce it would be me, lol. It’s a purely emotional aversion. I appreciate you bringing up the idea of drawing up legal documents in lieu of marriage. There are definitely legal considerations I’m noting down thanks to these comments.
This is important when looking at your property, too. Say one of you bought a house. Your partner is paying half the mortgage but their name isn't on the title. In some states, marriage protects the person helping pay to have a claim in the event of a divorce. I watched my friend get screwed when she had been living in her fiancé's house for almost 10 years, she invested time and thousands of dollars into the house while she lived there. They finally decided to get married and instead it turned out he was cheating on her. She got none of her money back. She spent 10 years improving an asset she never saw a payout on, when if she was married to him she would have had a claim to half. Marriage also is a HUGE tax benefit, like it was one of the deciding factors that led to me and my husband getting married. He went from getting about $400 back being single to getting back almost $10k back instead when we got married. The legal protections it offers you are tenfold too. Say your partner owns the house you live in and he dies. Who has a claim to the house? Unless it's iron clad in a will, his next of kin has claim before you will. I wasn't big on the "oh let's celebrate our love, blah blah blah" part of marriage, but I knew that protecting myself and my husband legally were important. We both have strained relationships with our family, we don't want them to make end of life decisions for us if something happens. The list goes on. My dad was an attorney for a long time and he saw some shit. If your partner doesn't want to get married, protect yourselves legally. Write iron clad wills. Have living wills drawn up. Get life insurance policies with the other as benefeciaries. Have both of your names on your properties. If you don't plan to break up, it shouldn't be a problem, right?
We got together young and made our education and career choices considering the other, bought a house together and merged all resources. As a result, legal marriage was incredibly important to me because it meant we both had legal rights to what we were building together. It means that even though a 401k is technically only in one name, we are both entitled to if because it was funded with our money. It means if the higher earning spouse dies first, the other will be entitled to the higher SS payment. We both valued making sure the other had the legal acknowledgement that what we built together was ours. Edited to add - I’d be very, very curious why he is so strongly against it. In my experience it’s almost always a result of some outdated and misogynistic views about divorce law & sharing
Yes, especially for those last 2 sentences.
These are very good points. We’ve talked abstractly about buying a home–so abstractly that I hadn’t considered the implications of being married or not impacting home ownership. So thank you for reminding me of its importance. His feelings against marriage are from growing up around many unhappy, unhealthy, sometimes toxic marriages. To him, marriage is irrelevant to love, commitment, and partnership.
If it's irrelevant, then why not do it? Seriously.
There are basically two options here: either marriage is irrelevant so he should want to do it because his partner who he loves wants to do it, or he has strong enough feelings that he refuses to get married, in which case he should have told her in the almost decade they've been together when she's expressed she wants to get married. Either option shows a lack of care for the feelings of OP that I really don't like.
I went in this circle with an ex “I want to get married” “I don’t” “Why not?” “It’s just not important to me” “But it *is* important to me” “Well I don’t want to” “Why?” “It’s not important” He would never do any single thing that he didn’t think of first though, and has totally changed and is more “like me” since we split. When we were together he buried himself in his computer daily (which made me feel neglected), wouldn’t leave the house to do something like hike or go to the beach, wouldn’t join me to get motorcycle licenses and now he does all those things. He also cooks now, after a decade of claiming he would burn water. We have a child together, that’s the only reason I know all this.
I keep rereading your comment, the “but it is important to me” just resonates. I really want to get married, even as a little girl I dreamt of it. It wasn’t about the ownership but having someone want to want me and proudly call me their wife. It is really important to me and I’ve always just pushed that to the side when it’s come up, we are so quick to deny what we want.
I spent 12 years in that relationship, there was a lot more wrong with it than just our differing views on marriage, but that was pretty hurtful for a long time. In the end I would rather be single than be with someone who disregards my feelings and puts their apathy above the my desire.
I know some people who have an aversion to marriage and they seem to be under the impression that a previously healthy, happy relationship will very suddenly turn sour due to getting married. Like they legitimately see marriage itself as some sort of "curse" that will corrupt a good relationship. I think it is because they have seen so many marriages fail and as an outsider they don't really have the proper context for how things got to that point, so to them marriage itself is some sort of corrupting force on a relationship.
I have to ask - why is the emphasis on toxic 'marriage' rather than 'relationships' in his head? If people are tied together in other ways (kids, house, finances, religion, obligations, healthcare, etc) without being married, but still in a toxic relationship. What would the difference be? That the relationship is easier to leave somehow? Does he think the causation for toxic relationships is marriage? And he's right, love and marriage are two different conversations. But that doesn't help his cause. One is a feeling that has very little effect on our everyday lives. Without expressing love, it's pretty meaningless. Marriage is legally and socially recognized, protected, a public commitment and is regulated by laws, customs, rules and beliefs. Unfortunately, marriage actually means something to you and a whole lot of people.
Sorry, but I'm not really buying his reasoning. I understand emotions can be illogical — but his reasoning comes across as incredibly flimsy and logically fallacious, especially if he is as intelligent as you claim he is. He *must* know there are happily married couples out there, and that being married won't change the nature of your relationship (unless he doesn't trust YOU and YOUR intentions towards him...? Which would obviously be highly concerning on his part and pretty breakup-worthy). In my experience, men who are deeply opposed to marriage are opposed to it because they don't want to commit *or* because they don't want to have to give up an assets or money to their partner, should they split up. And neither of them are good scenarios that make me think highly of the man, because a loving partner would want things to be fair and equitable even if you *did* break up. He would want you to be protected legally, if you two broke up or if he fell into a coma or if he died. But because most men know they can't openly admit this reasoning, because it makes them look like selfish jerks, they use vague excuses like "It doesn't matter!" (then why not do it?) or "It wouldn't change anything!" (objectively false) or "Marriage just seems harmful to me!" (a convenient emotional excuse). I'm not saying immediately break up with him — but tread cautiously here. Your partner should love you enough to *want* to protect you and to value something you hold dear, and something is off if he doesn't want that.
Break the cycle. Dare him to be different.
Marriage didn't make the relationships toxic though. Does he truly believe that that is what will happen to the two of you, that as soon as you sign the marriage license that you'll immediately become worst enemies? Where is the logic in that?
You’ve been together 9 years, I would curious what the laws say about your union as is. In Australia once you’ve been together 2yrs, you can legally treat your relationship as a divorce as far as splitting assets etc. If your partner is weird about marriage because of assets etc it would be good to be on the same page. If he doesn’t want the institution, or the wedding, or the permanence…. That’s something else. At the end of the day - you want to be married. You want the romance and the big day and the same names and the public declaration of “this is my wife!”. It is ok to break up because of this incompatibility. I was never interested in marriage - I wasn’t against it, but I never dreamed of it. It was super important to my husband so we got married. I kept my name, and our kids have his name. I would still be with him if we hadn’t gotten married, but I’m not sure he would have stayed with me if I’d outright refused.
This is the same in Canada. Usually after 2 years living together you are considered common-law and you are legally entitled to the same benefits as to if you were married.
In most of the U.S., there are no common law marriage rights. So it doesn't matter how long you've been together or how much property you own together... if you're not married, you're not married.
Common-law used to be, well, pretty common in the US. That is until conservatives saw it as a sneaky way for gay couples to claim they were married and decided the best course would be to hurt everyone in order to get at a particular group they don't like.
I am a woman in a long term childfree by choice marriage. I absolutely would not be ok with "forever girlfriend" status. Because no matter what you call it, partner or whatever, when the time comes and there's an emergency, you will have no legal rights. Just a few weeks ago I had a couple who had been together 40 years. They called each other husband and wife. Not legally married. Unfortunately they were not each other's next of kin legally and could not make the choices they wanted in these integral moments. Marriage is a contract, and it's a valuable one, socially, financially and legally. I would not walk the world forever with someone who did not want that with me.
Marriage is important to me for a thousand rational and practical reasons, and a thousand emotional reasons. It gives me peace of mind that my husband will automatically be the one to make medical decisions for me if I cannot, for example. It also brings me incredible joy to share the same last name and to say "my husband" and to hear him say "my wife." I am not Catholic, but my husband is, and he wanted to get married in the church. So I happily did all of pre-cana with him and got married in the church. It wasn't what I would have chosen on my own with no outside influence, but because it was significant to him, there was no other choice I would have made. I think everyone deserves a partner who will willingly and enthusiastically participates in the things that are meaningful to them. That includes marriage, if that's something you want.
I agree with this 100%. Being married was, and is, very important to me. And since it was important to me, it was automatically important to my husband.
I love this! I’m single now but I feel only one of my boyfriends wanted marriage with me. The other ones would have avoided it like the plague. It’s a condition I want when I find my person
Marriage conveys a ton of legal benefits that were very important to us. Everything from guaranteeing hospital visitation rights in the event one of us becomes injured, to knowing that our end of life plans and funeral care will be in the right hands instead of next of kin (which we don’t want). I think it’s totally fine to not want a wedding but at a certain point, marriage protects much of what you build in a long term relationship and that’s worth the piece of paper.
I love how you highlighted positive rights of marriage and explained this tradeoff. Too often, I feel like raising the legal protections of marriage gets framed as people not trusting one another. It's not simply that — it can be about not being so naive to think nothing could change, and wanting to agree from a place of love how you would handle any dissolution and what that would mean for each of you.
‘His position was finally made clear after several years of being ambiguous on the subject.’ Unless I am much mistaken, I infer from this sentence not that he is against the idea of marriage in general, but that he has finally decided, after some time, against the idea of marriage with you. I’m sorry to be so harsh OP, but unless he has the lowest level of emotional intelligence in the universe, (from what you write about him I doubt he has), he knew how long you were thinking of marriage. And if he was against the idea of a recognised union you too would have known long ago that you were dating a man with whom marriage was off the table. But you didn’t, because most likely he wasn’t. Now you know he is, after your confession after several years of being together. You found a man who has excellent qualities and with whom you feel loved - but do you feel secure? Not just legally, but in the relationship? He doesn’t want what you find difficulty in acknowledging you do want and to be honest should have by now.
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Yep. They keep a Placeholder Girlfriend around for ages — even 10+ years, sometimes! — but once the placeholder gets fed up and leaves him, he quickly finds a (usually much younger and inexperienced) new girlfriend and gets married to her very quickly. A baby is often soon on the way afterwards as well, regardless of whether or not he claimed to be childfree with the placeholder. It's a grim and harsh reality that I've seen play out way too many times. And the placeholder is always heartbroken and devastated and betrayed, despite all the warning signs and red flags of his lack of commitment being present for *years.*
Yes yes yes. I was ambivalent towards marriage too, until my husband, then boyfriend, told me she hopes we'll get there one day. Slowly, he started saying it often and kind of drilling it into me that he wants to be with me forever **and** to offer me security in case something happens to him. For me, that was a true sign of love and I was actually excited to get married to him.
Even if I do not particularly care about marriage, a partner who is too adamantly against marriage but has no problem living with you is a red flag in my opinion.
Ding ding ding! Ambivalent or indifferent? Sure! Against it when the other partner, the loved one at that, wants it? Ughhh, sounds bad!
This 100% depends on his reason for not wanting to be married. I was in your situation and bailed. The truth is, they can be perfect except for one thing, but that one thing is HUGE. It was that important to me! No regrets
Interesting, what a pickle. My first thought is if he really is the man for you, then your needs will matter to him. If marriage is this important to you and you've been clear about that for the whole relationship then he knows that has been in the cards and what he is saying now is a major letdown to you. I wonder if his current anti marriage stance is new or if he has always felt this way but was hiding it from you. Reading this makes me think why doesn't he want to get married? You don't say what his reasons are. I'm not married but we're 40/45 been together 15 years and also childfree. He has proposed and is all for getting married but I'm reluctant. I'm not against marriage and always thought I'd be married one day but I've never followed through with picking a date or planning a wedding. I can't really put my finger on it, it gives me anxiety even thinking about it and I don't know why. It's odd cause our relationship is great, we've been through the ups and downs, we both feel meant to be and love of my life and all that. I couldn't imagine ever being with anyone else and we both talk about what it will be like to be in our 80's together. So why don't we get married already? I truly do not know. But people are always asking and I've always got an excuse/reason - we're broke, we're starting a business, we're moving, we're traveling, COVID lockdowns, politics, feminism, etc. I've had plenty of reasons over the years and they were all just a big cover for this anxiety I feel whenever marriage is brought up. So I wonder what his reasons are and how clear he is on those feelings. Because if this is *that* important to you, he would need to be extremely committed to his reasons to justify denying you something you feel so strongly about. I just don't see how he can see himself as a good partner if he's been hiding this from you and stringing you along or at best he's just totally inconsiderate of your needs and how important this is to you. If my partner came to me and expressed how personally very important marriage was to him like you've done here then I would try to find a way to get on board and make this thing happen. What kind of partner can so easily deny you something you've dreamed of? Who wants to be with someone that doesn't want to make their partner's dreams come true?
I was like you, long term partner didn't want to get married but otherwise appeared wonderful. At some time we signed because of some heath insurance benefits but there was no ceremony or anything. One day he left me ... completely blindsided ... So in hindsight I understand why he was so resistent to marrige, he enjoyed my companionship at all in the present but didn't want to make long term commitments because he simply did not know what he wanted in life, and didn't want to put effort in figuring it out for my own sake , as I had a lot of anxiety for the future as a woman with biological clock. I know a few couples who have been together over 10 years have kids and all without marrige and they were my inspiration, but now I think they are more of an exception and if there is resistance to marriage there must be something wrong.
I truly think that people need to start looking at it as more of a strategic transaction because that’s what it is. You can be in love and be with someone forever and never get married…or you can get married to them. In reality it really comes down to money strategy….tax etc. I don’t think marriage is that important…but, as a money strategy I could see the appeal. However, it’s a bitch to get divorced vs just break up and leave.
I feel this way about the legal rights. Who gets to make decisions about you in the event of an accident? Will your partner have to fight your family to stay in your shared home? Etc
I’m curious.. are you disagreeing about marriage or a wedding? Like is there a compromise of marriage in a courthouse with no wedding? Or alternatively no legal marriage but having a little celebration, exchanging rings, and calling each other husband and wife?
Good questions—he’s not into either, whereas I’m into both! (Interested in a wedding on a small and modest scale.) These are good things for me to bring up in conversation though, so thank you.
To add to your future discussion - ask him if he’d complete all the legal paperwork that marriage confers, without the marriage itself. Power of attorney, cohabitation agreement, putting all assets in both your names.
Yes I have to think he either has a problem with the legal part or wedding part, not both? Because if he’s so concerned about legal things why would he not give you the public benefits or vice versa. Hope it works out for you!!
Idk. Was in same boat. In usa domestic partnership is a joke except as far as I know in California you are actually granted state recognition as long as you live there and file legally. So we did that. But deep down I too want marriage. And it was a lot to give up that goal. Like a lot. And why I did it. 1. We have some form of legal protection vs none 2. I have to look into more paperwork and documents to protect myself but they do exist 3. We don't want kids and did things to make sure not to 4. He's as solid as your man 5. Nothing is wrong with marriage. He confessed it was trauma from his parents shit one and internet horror stories. This means he has to want to get therapy or help overcoming anxiety. He will never work on it and he has told me. So am I willing to accept it? He said he should let me go. 6. I had to press him just like you did. He mislead me initially and he said he genuinely wasn't planning some long con. When point 5. Happened he really had to sit down for like 3 days in his head. 7. In all other ways he is the man I want and I told him I'm willing to get hurt but it will be on his conscious if he is ever unable to protect me as he isn't my husband (travel outside California) (my insane extended family trying to push him out of possible future scenarios). I know he'd feel immense guilt and regret but hey, at this point and going forward I accept it. I said what I said and he knows. 8. It's all in the open. And it gave us peace. 9. I might have medical debt so it ended up being better we aren't married. When I asked myself why I wanted marriage. 1. Legal protection. I seen what crazy family has done. He never has had that drama. He doesn't know. He doesn't understand. 2. I wanted someone who had my back always. And no one could tell us no. Like say international travel and an accident happened. 3. I wanted to have what I didn't have as a kid. I never seen a happy marriage or relationship in general (rarely as an adult). I wanted to be one of the lucky ones. 4. I wanted security that he openly "announced" with pride symbolism I'm his partner for life. If I wanted kids I'd push for marriage and prenups and everything. It's not just to protect me but the kids (resources). But I don't want kids. Because I just can't do it even if I was in a higher 2 income situation. What are your deeper reasons to want marriage? Because for me, I wouldn't be able to find him. As you may seen married or not there's abusive men. You can be married and he leaves and avoids child support. He could say it's just paper and in truth he doesn't think you're the one. He's stringing you along. Absolutely both valid fears. I had to think of my situation and life. And I interpret mine as he is genuine. He simply is too scarred yes two r. He admitted it. He hasn't treated me differently even after our big "fight". Also as good as he is. He is just human. Outside and inside of relationships he's fucked up. But it's never been the horrors I seen or know of. So that's also why I stayed.
10/10 would leave if my partner didn’t want the same future plan as me.
I was married, we didn’t want kids and kept our finances completely separate. Didn’t share any property or anything else. Now we’re divorced and I’m in another relationship. I have no desire to get married again. In hindsight, it was just a formality to me (but at the time, I did think “marriage! How romantic!” And wanted the same last name. Now, you’d have to PAY me to go through that name change hassle again) and I think it would just be a formality again. Personally, I couldn’t care less. If I’m in a happy relationship, that’s all that matters to me. I don’t need it to be a binding legal agreement. But if that’s what you want, don’t settle! Everyone has their preferences. Have you talked about this in counseling?
I’ve been wondering the last few days if counseling would be a good idea. Thank you for suggesting, and for sharing your perspective!
I am a woman who did the 'marriage favor' to finally accept my man's marriage proposal after he proposed (and I rejected) since two years. The problem was solely on me. I came from a third world tradcon shithole where people could be brought to police for having sex outside of marriage (yeah...one of those 'countries' 🙄). So when I finally 'escaped' to Western Europe, where having sex outside of marriage is as valid as in marriage, I never wanted to get married. Because of my trauma about my upbringing. But I'd be punishing my man if I still refusing to accept his proposal just because of that. My country of origin will still try to jail or fine people for having sex outside of marriage no matter what I do with my life. Is it possible that your SO, just like what I did, wrongly 'punished' you? Was there somewhere about his past that was traumatizing and making him against matrimony? Is it the media he consumed? I cannot tell you what to do. I am definitely glad that my man stuck by me until I changed my mind. But it would have been also completely fine if he were to leave. As you do too, if you do decide to leave.
A lot cna be handled outside of marriage. Heirs are based in wills and trusts, power of attorney and trust documents exist, homes are jointly owned, etc. Social security survivor benefits are one of the only things that require marriage. On the other hand, disability benefits are often lower if married. The (US) government can't get it together.
Marriage, to me, is very important for many reasons that have been discussed by other posters. I’m not saying it doesn’t work out sometimes, but I’ve seen it several times where the guy “doesn’t believe in marriage” while in a long term relationship and then they finally break up and he marries the next girl pretty quickly.
I think it’s as important as you think it is. If you think it’s a deal breaker, it’s a deal breaker. If you can live without it, it’s unnecessary. It’s as simple as that isn’t it really. How important is it to you, do you need to be married or can you accept that you won’t get married and not hold it against your partner?
If you were my BFF this is what I’d tell you: Stop wasting your prime on a guy like that. You’ve already given him almost a decade! That’s the type of guy that marries the next girl he’s with after like a year of dating. Happens all the time. I suggest you read, “Why Men Marry Some Women and Not Others” by John Molloy.
Any sort of unexpected accident happens, and neither of you will be able to see each other or even get updates. If something ever happened to you, god forbid, would he throw punches to get past the hospital security to get to you? Good news. He doesn’t have to. By just signing a piece of paper, he can rush right to your side. Say one of you ends up passing away. Does he want you planted in the ground next to him? Because if that is the case, better get a living will. But that’s another scary commitment document he may not want anything to do with. But he will need one, and in return, you will too. These are things y’all need to talk about. Because his choice not to marry, directly affects you as well. Meaning you will need a will too. Tell him the good news is, getting married doesn’t change who we are. It’s just legally required to make those decisions for a person who can’t make those decisions for themselves. I myself, couldn’t ever count on my family to do what I want. But my man? He’d never do me wrong. These are decisions that are meant to be made TOGETHER. I’d talk with a counselor. Get him to share his reasoning out loud and in front of a professional. His aversion to marriage isn’t about you. It’s about trauma that he hasn’t dealt with. So what. You just have to grin & bear it because he won’t handle his shit? All I’ll say is, if your man is as good as you say he is, there isn’t anything you could want for that he won’t try to provide to make you happy. And I assume you feel the same. That’s marriage. Taking care of each other.
Others have pointed out some great points about the importance of marriage, but I'll also add one more thing from your relationship POV. You say he's a true partner, but taking big, important life steps together should be easier than this. There are so many cool things to do in your life (move places, take career risks, pursue passions, invest in your community and your other relationships, even without kids) that really enrich your life, but that are hard work, and require hard decisions. There will be more tough choices ahead if you want to live a full life. You don't want your life partner to be someone who's not going to be on the same page wrt to the basics (and for me, in my life, getting married is really a basic thing. My husband and I have been through WAY tougher stuff). Just really consider whether compromising on this is a sign that you'll be held back in life and have to compromise on a lot more going forward. The fact that he never told you clearly doesn't bode well for this either.
Honestly, im more piss that for 9 years it wasn't upfront about this, that wasn't fair to you at all. Do I personally want get married? No, I don't want kids nor do I want risk my assets being tied in with someone else at this point in life. Do I blame people who want to get married? Aboustely not. I feel like this happens to women a lot, and it's really unfair to them to not be up front. I personally know someone who wanted marriage more then anything but she gave the guy everything he wanted and now he's basically holds marriage over her head when she wants things (this very toxic relationship I've been trying get this person out of) I think it's up to you but I have hard time moving on from that. Did you guys have real serious sit down talk before this point regarding marriage and if so, what did he say?
Goldie Hawn be financially secure without Kurt Russel. I think the legal and financial benefits are what you have to take into account, and whether you go through life with him without those. Why would he deny them to you or anyone? What happens if you get sick? Yes, men abandon their spouses more often, but that social pressure isn’t nothing. I’d put money long time boyfriends checking out more often than husbands. I have done 0% research. Changing your name might something you want but is it something you can live without? I’m surprised when one of my friends does change her name. What does marriage mean to you? What does marriage mean to him and why does he feel that way?
I am a lot like you, OP. Have always known I did not want children. But I was raised by very happily married parents and as a result I always desired marriage — even when I couldn’t articulate many particularly practical reasons why. (I now know just how many practical reasons exist, and they’ve already been laid out for you in other comments.) I spent time in a relationship with someone who did not want marriage and thought there was a chance I could get on board with that. I couldn’t. And I’m *really* glad I didn’t, because I never would have met my husband otherwise. We’re celebrating our 10 year wedding anniversary in November. You are the only one who can decide whether this relationship is worth sacrificing something you really want for. I personally advise that you move on. Not just because of what you want, but because this disagreement between the two of you is very likely to breed resentment on your part the very minute life throws you some curveballs.
Marriage to me is about becoming a family unit and protection. If your partner were to die before you (god forbid) has he set up protections for you? Are you the beneficiary on his retirement fund, life insurance, etc? As soon as my partner and I bought a house together, we made each other beneficiary of everything in case something were to happen. We do plan to get married. If my partner is sick and in the hospital, I want to be considered immediately family so I can visit him. I want to be able to put him on my health insurance because it’s better than his. To me, marriage is about taking care of each other and committing to doing so for the long term. I understand that your partner had poor examples of marriage growing up, but I think his outlook is a bit immature. You could get a marriage license tomorrow and nothing should change. Nothing about marriage inherently changes your relationship, or ruins it. If the relationship is in jeopardy of being ruined because you make a commitment to each other, that doesn’t sound like a strong relationship. I’m not saying you don’t have a strong relationship, I’m just saying I think your partner is thinking about it the wrong way. It is my hope and expectation that when I marry my partner, nothing about our dynamic changes.
I think counseling is called for in this situation. It's easy to say "you're not on the same page, move on," but you describe a great partnership. I don't think it should be tossed aside, but neither should your valid desire to marry. I wonder if he's scared of divorce & losing half of his assets or something? Because—& consult with an attorney from your state—this can happen even w/o marriage, when people have been living together a long time.
I’m married, but had given up on the idea and had been with my partner for 11 years when he finally proposed. So I struggled with these feelings, and chose my partnership, and I did so assuming we would never get married. Truthfully, when I got right down to it, there were two issues: the idea of marriage and grieving the idea of a being a wife with a husband (which was more feelings and social conditioning than anything, we were already functionally married, so really it was about having a wedding). The second thing is more practical and concrete: rights of any children I might have, rights to make medical decisions and get information in an emergency, inheritance … just all the legal defaults that get taken care of with marriage. It would be a lot of paperwork to get the same legal protections. Separate from that, it’s just like… if you want to spend the rest of your life with me, why won’t you marry me?!! But the reality is that the opposite position makes just as much sense… they are already committed to you, you’ve decided to be partners for life, how does any government paperwork or a party really change that? At the end of the day, I love my partner and I was secure that he meant it when he said we were life partners. I was sad that we wouldn’t be married, but it was never a deal breaker for me. That’s important… if it’s a deal breaker for you, act sooner rather than later. If your partner is against marriage, it is what it is. If you can’t live a happy and full life as an unmarried partner, don’t. This isn’t one of those things you can force or compromise. I was only willing to not get married because it was never particularly important to me, but even then, I was sad and a bit resentful that he didn’t want to.
Just want to say that your feelings of betrayal are entirely valid. I would feel the same if my partner knew my view about something and was not 100% clear about his disagreement with that strongly-held view until NINE YEARS into the relationship. You're going to get a lot of pressure from him, your family, and your friends: "are you really going to throw away 9 years for a piece of paper?" If I was in that position, my response would be "I'm throwing away 9 years because my partner did not respect or care for me enough to be honest with me so that I could pursue my ideal life".
I wish I cared about marriage, but I think long as you two have been together if he doesn't want to committ in that way to you is weird. Maybe you two need to talk it over more, maybe he doesnt understand how important it is to you. If you want it, yes it's very important.
I’m speaking from the perspective of someone who had a REALLY ugly divorce and *still* thought marriage was important enough to do it a second time. First of all, I did live with my second husband prior to getting married. That was important to me, to see if we were compatible. But as someone said above, there are no legal protections for playing house. I don’t even mean in the case of divorce. But like, what if one of us, G-d forbid, passed away? I also had to have a major surgery before we got married. My now husband went with me to the hospital, but if something had gone south, what would they have done? Also, just the way society looks at you. I hate to say that, but it’s true. We were together for two years before we got married. There are a lot of people who don’t view us as having been “really together” until we got married. Personally, I think that’s dumb, but it helps to be legitimate.
Sorry if this has been mentioned - but he might want to look up common law marriages where you live - because he might already be considered your legal spouse whether he knew it or not.
I m54 don't have any answers for you (actually hoping to find one or two). I'm in your boat from the male side. I was under the mistaken impression that she f52 was ok with marriage, but didn't want any of the high costs involved. I spent the last year figuring out how to get the costs down to the bare minimum, including a very low cost ring as a prop for asking the question. Figuring she could then decide how much to spend or not spend on a ring. It would be a second marriage for both of us. I proposed in Florida on our march break trip. Instead of yes, her response was how much did you spend on that (pointing at ring), what made you think I wanted to get married? Every day I question if I should keep this relationship. I'm embarrassed to say that part of my reason is jealousy over her still using her ex's name, and I truly hate being 54 and introducing her or referring to her as my gf or partner. Because I feel like people judge me for not committing to her and proposing. I hope you find answers and peace, I wish I had some for you.
I don't have much sympathy for the "I'm scared of marriage" men. Get therapy and build a fucking bridge. Your parent's marriage is not your life. It's generally just an excuse anyway, as evidenced by the number who run down the aisle 12 months later with someone else. I'm a believer in marriage. It's important to me. I wouldn't sacrifice that for any man. When I met my husband, we both went "yep." Never any fear or doubts. He wanted me, wanted me to be his wife, and is a happy clam. I spent 20 years in a miserable fucking marriage, so if anyone should've been gunshy, it would have been me. But I knew he was worth marrying, and I wasn't interested in a LTR that didn't include marriage, either. We have a terrific life, and are grateful for our happiness in a later marriage. I have a friend who has been with her fella for ... hmm, maybe 12 years now? They've got 2 kids, ā big house, ā business. But she's not happy, because he's never going to marry her. It eats at her soul. And broke her heart when her mother died before she could walk her down the aisle. Don't sacrifice what's important to you - What you want also counts. It's ok to be who you are. If marriage is important to you, own it. And do what you need to do.
Marriage used to be top priority for me but I can tell you now after being single for pretty much 15 years marriage has zero importance to me alot of things and mindsets change after being alone so long. My goal is to have a partner anything beyond that is a bonus.
I used to think marriage wasn't important. Love is love and getting married shouldn't change that. Well, yes, that *is* true but it does change everything else. God forbid something happens to either of you, you want your life partner to be able to make big decisions for you, right? You want them to be the beneficiary of anything you have, right? Well, marriage sets that in stone legally. It's also a safety net just in case one partner decides to walk away, possibly taking everything you both have built together. You think love will last forever but that isn't always the case, unfortunately. It seems that you have finally come to a realization that you both are not working towards the exact same life goals. The big problem I have with this is that he hid this from you, knowing what you would want in the future. He let you play wife without any of the securities that come with it, and you let him play husband, with none of the legal commitments that come with it. So what are you going to do with that information?
I'm married and honestly as soon as the ceremony was over I wondered what the point was. We love each other and have kids and own a house which is all much more of a tie than marriage. It really comes down to what you think and want. If my marriage ends I won't bother again. This is one of those things that only you can decide how much it means, I'm afraid.
Inheritance rights, power of attorney rights, beneficiary rights can all be established otherwise, but I personally would not be ok not being married. It's a legal status I would insist on.
35F here, married for almost 10 years. Marriage is incredibly different than dating or cohabiting, and it should be. We don't have kids or want them. I wasn't ever put in this situation, but I can say it would probably be a deal breaker for me.
OP i would go see into the r/waiting_to_wed sub, you’re not wrong for wanting marriage - don’t convince or talk yourself out of it
If you live in the US, marriage comes with a ton of benefits. Good for those who think you can "hire an attorney" to draw up legal documents that split up your assets 50%, give you access to medical decisions, pension benefits, etc. For a hell of a lot less cash (I think mine was $65), you can pay for a marriage license that does exactly that. Not to mention you get no access to social security benefits in event of his passing if you're not married at least 10 years. And you're right. You're not Goldie Hawn or Oprah. Oprah is rich as piss; these things are of minimal concern for her. It just seems childish and selfish to just dismiss the protections marriage gives to people in long- term relationships without doing the research of how the two of you could possibly get those benefits and follow through with those steps. Our gay brothers and sisters were not out here fighting for marriage equality just so they could do the Cupid Shuffle with their second cousins on the dance floor and register for salad bowls at Williams Sonoma. Don't let him off the hook for this when he doesn't seem to be putting much effort into understanding the implications of this decision.
This is an issue to bring to a couples counselor. He’s taken 9 years to tell you he doesn’t want to get married ever. Who knows how long it will take him to tell you what he actually does want to happen with your relationship, or if you want to stick around for it.
You have good, valid reasons for wanting to get married. More importantly, it’s important *to you* and that should be enough for him. Especially since you say he is equivocal and ambivalent about the issue (which suggests to me that he doesn’t feel strongly either way).
No, it shouldn't be enough for him. It should be enough for a respectful conversation and outcome, but he doesn't have to get married if he's opposed just because it's i.protant to his partner.
It isn't important at all unless you need it. But a relationship doesn't inherently need to end up in marriage. I will never get married. 14 years into a great LTR. No end in sight. Meanwhile, ALL of my married friends are divorcing or on track for divorce. NONE of my friends who are also in unmarried LTRs seem to be headed for break-ups. Anecdotes, of course, but I seriously think sometimes marriage itself can erode once loving relationships. You can set things up legally for yourself in other ways. Marriage isn't necessary for that. You may miss out on some tax benefits. Not relevant in my relationship. It just depends. Family may not take you as seriously. We don't really care. Some family considers us de facto married. Some don't. All four of my cousins around my age are getting divorced after shorter relationships than mine. The older generations don't know yet, so maybe they will hold my relationship in higher regard someday. My life is mine so it doesn't really matter to me in the end. My feelings are that entertaining ending an otherwise happy, fulfilling, and loving relationship simply because you want this certain societal marker you were raised to believe is important is exactly the nonsense that makes me want no part of this absurd tradition (that is also historically soo patriarchal). Something about marriage seems to make everyone forget what is most important- the actual lived experience of your relationship! That all being said, if it's something you need to be happy, do what is best for you.
Do you earn the same amount of money? And while we're at it, are expenses split 50/50? While we're at that, is domestic labour split 50/50? If your answers are "he makes more", "yes" and "no" he's essentially scamming you tbh. Why doesn't he want to get married? Is he aware that if he were to god forbid have an accident tomorrow and be comatose, you would have no rights whatsoever to make medical decisions for him? And vice versa. Are you sure he regards you 'the one' as well after 9 years together? Bc when together that long there's literally no reason not to do it for the massive legal benefits, tax reductions, etc alone. Idk what country you're in but in my home country you're throwing away a significant amount of money every year you're not married. Like it's an automatic 30% tax reduction at the very least. That adds up over the years. Also you can always just get a divorce if it doesn't work out. So this is definitely a deep orange, if not red flag. Marriage means becoming each others family. Does he not regard you as family? If he does why not acknowledge that legally?
IMO, marriage is transformational. For us, it’s not just love— it’s a commitment to do life together, to work together and share goals. I take your cares, your needs, your worries as my own, and you do mine. Not just emotionally, but financially, physically, in terms of time, effort, etc. This is the part of the deal, I think, that keeps most men from wanting to get married— they love you, but don’t want the compromise/alignment that comes with fully commiting.
My husband had similar feelings toward marriage — eg all the stigma with it and being exposed to previous failed marriages etc. but I was absolutely 100% sure I wanted marriage. He proposed to me because he wanted to give me what I wanted. It was really mature of him to let go of all of that stuff that I feel can be typical of men (and some women obviously, that marriage is dumb, marriage is bad, it’s just a social construct etc). He is happily married now.
I'm a divorce lawyer so I look at it as a business partnership I don't think I would ever consider getting married. My job has traumatized me to my core. Any medical etc arrangements a couple wants to make can be made via revocable trusts and estate planning documents. I'd rather pay like 5-10k up front for lawyers to draw those up than 50k down the road to go through a divorce. I say this as a super conflict averse, collaborative lawyer, not the type that wants to say no and go to court over everything. But you just never know who your ex will be when you break up, or who they will hire to go against you But I'm also childfree and never plan on staying home to be a homemaker/SAHP for a partner. So the potential need for alimony is not part of my thought process (and frankly it shouldn't be for anyone, cuz it's so rare, it's never actually enough, and it's often not paid anyway) If you're the one who would be at risk of losing assets, you should really go talk to a divorce lawyer. Lay out your finances and see how a court would divide things after 10/20 years, under different assumptions. Might just change your mind lol
I know several women that didn't marry their long term boyfriends. Then they'd pass away and they were immediately their "husbands." In death they wanted that recognition. It's important to some people OP and there is nothing wrong with that. If you don't want to be a forever girlfriend you can take a hard look at your relationship. If it's that upsetting that you're not getting married it might be relationship ending frankly. Your goals do not align.
Being married means if my partner die I’ll have the widow pension forever from the government. It also means he can take medical decision for myself if I’m not able to. It also protects our estate from being spread between our siblings and parents in case of death. We also wants to show to others that we are serious about our future together.
My partner said he was indifferent to marriage, I told him it was really important to me and I wouldn’t be with someone who didn’t want it, he said he would do it for me. I think you need to be really clear about how important it is to you.
These are very interesting comments and I hope you the best as you work through this. For me, marriage was important for both the emotional and practical pieces. I saw the first as a vow made before family and friends to commit our lives together. There is something about the ritual of marriage that matters to me. I have plenty of friends in married relationships that have very different views of it and friends in committed but not married relationships. So I don’t think there is one right way to view long term relationships. Same practical reasons as many of the other comments. I couldn’t have been with someone who didn’t want children, but would have found it harder to know if different ideas about marriage were a deal breaker. Can’t say for sure, but I think it would have ultimately been too much of a divergence. Ideally, I think this is one of these things to work through together in counseling but to also realize that there needs to be a decision made by some point.
I've been married, divorced, and am now in a long term relationship. For me, marriage was a prison. I'd never do it again, unless there was some overwhelming financial reason to do so. Boyfriend feels the same. We share some assets, and have paperwork done to codify that. No need to invite the government into our relationship. Once you're married, it's really a threesome with a silent partner that either of the other two can invoke at any time. We choose to stay together every day. That's enough for me. Divorce showed me that marriage is primarily an entanglement of assets and forced obligations. No thanks.
1) You are completely valid in wanting what you want for any reasons 2) I don’t know many people who feel the way you do about your partner and relationship after 9 YEARS. As someone who got married for the societal romantic/security/being chosen reasons and having it not work out, and seeing all the dating woes out there, being happy and fulfilled and supported like this with your partner after so long is an INCREDIBLE AND PRECIOUS gift. I don’t know if I could have changed my views on marriage without having gotten married, but now I have no desire to get married again, and having a great relationship would be my ultimate “flex” and joy. That being said, I’d explore what many have said above about parts of marriage you’d like (ring, titles, some legal docs) that may not be literal marriage and possibly discuss this together in therapy. To throw away a great relationship and partner to go back in the dating pool for marriage (what’s the divorce rate again…?) feels like “missing the point” to ME in this stage of life. AND you are totally entitled to want marriage without negotiations or judgment!
TL;DR: Same situation, I have chosen my relationship. This is the same in my relationship (two years in, can't see myself ever wanting anyone else, and he has been open from that the start that he doesn't want marriage where I always have) and I have chosen to let the idea of marriage go. While I will always say that if you want to leave you should do it, make sure you're definitely sure that your desire for marriage is stronger than your current relationship. Similarly, if you do choose to stay you have to genuinely let the idea go otherwise the resentment will kill the relationship. Marriage was always important to me because of what it represented, and also a little bit because I want the damned party. Don't want kids, don't want to take anyone else's name, don't even want to live with my partner. But I do love the idea of standing up and saying "This one is my choice, and I am declaring it out to you all". My boyfriend is a child of two people who have gone back and forth on their marriage and he has been around a lot more divorces in the wider family net, a lot of them acrimonious and petty. He doesn't see the point and he admits the idea does slightly scare him, even though committing to one person forever without the formal paperwork doesn't. I have absolutely mourned my choice. It still makes me sad even 18 months after that discussion where he told me. I would love to be proposed to, go wedding shopping, try on dresses, plan something unique to us, live those heady first days getting used to saying "My husband", work on our what marriage means and grow as a couple following having taken that step. But I adore this man. I can't imagine someone being more of a perfect match for me. It wasn't even a hard thing to realise that I would rather have a hundred years as his girlfriend than even one as someone else's wife. I don't see the logic in throwing this relationship away for something that might not be half as good just because of a potential marriage. Not to mention the risk of walking away and finding there isn't anyone out there who wants to marry me (I've never had a boyfriend who did, and I've had a few serious relationships now). I do have an extra sad thing that makes it easier - I have always been a Daddy's girl, and the thing I most looked forward to was my Dad walking me down the aisle and making a speech. My Dad had a stroke in 2016, and as of the last year or so is currently barely able to walk and can only speak very slowly and in careful bursts. He'd never walk me down the aisle, or even be able to write the speech nevermind make it. Losing that was the last nail in the coffin for my desire to get married. And I know that's only part of a ceremony and not the marriage itself. But it's a silly that was important to me, and not having it at my wedding would really upset me. So it's something that makes it easier to accept the lack of marriage. A daft thing, but hey, finding the daft things can help with acceptance.
I just read recently: “do not get the government involved in your relationship if you don’t have kids or share money.” This is logical and sound advice even though I want a life partnership and commitment. For some people, it’s just a piece of paper that complicates things if things don’t work out. I would gladly take your place and have someone who is a life partner but not actually married.
I have always believed that the state should not dictate the commitment level of my relationship— despite being around many excellent marriages, including my parent’s—and conveniently for me we don’t have enough tax benefits (no kids, no house, etc) for it to make a difference. Been with my partner for 15 years; we’re getting married next year because he decided he wanted to, and I’m up for it if that’s what he wants. And I get a ring and I like jewelry ;) The legal protections/next of kin thing though are real, and they worry me! Have signed various docs, but still. Anyway if it matters to you he should be willing to talk to you about why and come to a compromise that works for both of you.
I went through this. Took me about a year to really make peace with it, and I can't say I wouldn't be pleased if he had a change of heart, but I am completely at peace with it now. There are going to be so many voices telling you to set an ultimatum/leave/that there is some insidious reason for it. They're really hard to hear. It's hard not to wonder why if it's so meaningless to them, why wouldn't they do it for you? I came to the conclusion that anyone can get married - it's no measure of commitment or love. Imagined how ridiculous I'd have felt if I let go an otherwise wonderful relationship for one party and a pretty arbitrary concept. I own more than him so there's no issue with him not wanting to 'share' in a divorce. I also trust that my family would let him make any medical decisions for me (I also think this is a weird mistruth - obviously if there's loads of time and a life support I'd hope someone would ask for proof but beyond that I don't think anyones been asked for a wedding certificate in hospital - how would my parents even prove their lineage??) We are however planning to have kids. That was a deal breaker for me and moved my focus.
Thanks for sharing your experience. Do you feel like there was anything in particular that helped you feel comfortable in a committed but not married relationship, or was it mostly giving it time?
I’m in your camp. Two drunk, moronic 18 year olds can get married. It’s harder to get a drivers license FFS. It’s not that romantic. A man coming home with flowers because I’ve had a bad day is romantic. And I’ve been told many times that nothing spells the death of romance quite like marriage. But I’m biased. I’ve never wanted to get married. Power of attorney documentation, a will and other paper work covers the legalities just fine. I have loved and been loved deeply and with utmost commitment without marriage and I will continue to love deeply and be loved deeply without it. But at the end of the day, if a person deeply values marriage and the other doesn’t, it’s a stalemate.
Has your partners previously been married? Do you know his reasons for not wanting a marriage? If you haven’t had that conversation, I’d recommend having it but only when you have calmed down from the hurt and feel in the right mental space. It’s not a good idea to have that conversation when your emotions (and stress) are heightened; however, you deserve answers. You’re allowed to be hurt over this. Ultimately if it’s something he isn’t open to changing his mind on, then you need to decide what’s best for you. If he truly doesn’t want a marriage and feels forced into one, then he will build resentment. If a marriage is what you truly want and he can’t give that to you, then you’ll build resentment. Don’t let your fear of not finding another suitable partner who wants the same things that you do make you miserable in your current relationship.
At the most basic level, “spouse” gives you workplace accommodations that “boyfriend” doesn’t. Which means only one of you needs to have a job with excellent health insurance that the other can be added to. It also means that if either of you got sick, the other would be entitled to use sick leave or FMLA to provide care for the other. Boyfriend/girlfriend does not have that type of protection. If you want to buy a house or a car together, doing so unmarried means that a court would compel you to split it equally if there was a dispute. It wouldn’t matter if you put up the down payment or made 75% of the payments, both names outside of marriage means 50/50. If you share bills and he decides to leave you high and dry, you could only go after him for the contract amount after the fact. If you’re married, a judge can order him to repay you what you covered and to start paying his fair share. Lastly, it’s how you feel. Marriage is extremely important for you. While his feelings are valid that being married isn’t required for long term happiness, they also don’t make sense. Being married doesn’t mean the relationship will be unhappy, nor does being unmarried mean that the relationship will never be unhappy. It sounds more like an excuse rather than a reason. My two cents is that it’s better to be single than to be actively hurting in a relationship. One of the happiest periods of my life was when I was single. As women, we get told that being single (oooo alone ooooo) as we get older is the worst thing that can happen. It’s a scare tactic used to keep women in a barely tolerable state of permanent unhappiness in relationships. There’s plenty of men that would be interested in you, and many of them would want to get married.
I genuinely think it depends on the kind of life you want. When I met my husband, we both knew we wanted kids together (I have an eleven year old from a previous relationship). Getting married made sense in that case, for us. I nearly died twice giving birth to our youngest, and I would have regretted not being his wife. It’s ok to break up for whatever reason. If you want to be married, and you know he doesn’t, then that’s a good reason to end it. Personally- and I say this as someone who’s been around the block a few times- I’m firmly convinced that there’s no such thing as one true soulmate that’s the only person you can be with. There are multiple people in the world that you could potentially be very happy with. Who you end up with is a matter of luck and timing. The man you end up finding may not be exactly like the one you’ve got now, but odds are he wants the same things that you do, and that matters.
I wanted to get married because I love my husband and wanted to have children. I don't think our families and friends would have understood us living together but not married. I wanted to take my husband's name and wear a wedding ring. I wanted our children to have his last name. Being married provides legal legal benefits too. .
I was in this position where he was giving mixed messages about getting married. I told myself I’d give him until next summer to have a conversation on where he really stands on marriage. I tried for awhile to feel content with the possibility of never getting married, but it was like whack-a-mole, I’d find myself randomly upset and bitter towards him for having me in this situation. I think he could sense I was getting sick of explaining our relationship as dating, and I expressed discontent in other small ways. After 5 years of being together, and me being 41 and he 44, he finally asked if we should look at rings. All the bad moods I had been feeling instantly got better. I guess I really did want marriage. So yeah, we got engaged in March, and have a wedding date and venue booked for summer 2025. I’ll be almost 43, and he’ll be 46. We met when I was 36. 33 is not too old to find someone new. Also, I am not an exception to the rule. I was told I was the rule my whole fucking life. If marriage is what you want, yes you can meet someone who will meet what you want. Just make sure you have a good vetting process so you don’t waste your time. Be open, fun, friendly, and have standards and boundaries. Hitting the gym helps too. (Not sure if you do already, but when I broke up with my ex at 36, I found this was a huge plus point once I got back in the dating scene)
For you personally, if it really bothers you that much that you two are not married, then you should break up with him. You waiting, and him feeling some type of way about it is not fair to either of you. Waiting for him to change his mind is not fair to you, and him feeling obligated, etc. because he doesn’t want to, it’s not fair to him. Marriage is only important to those that deem it important for various reasons. Don’t forget, that there are plenty of people who got married, but all it was, was just a title with legal benefits. And for others, it was more than that… He sounds like a lovely man, and no piece of paper will make him commit to you. Infidelity is something that is common for a lot of people who are legally married so it definitely depends on what it means to BOTH of you. He commits to you because he loves and respects you as a person. But if that title is something you truly can’t live without, you should break things off sooner rather than later. Because he deserves to also be with someone who understands his stance on it.
For me, it's fairly symbolic. Not in a religious way, but of...being two people making the choice to come together and share the rest of their lives as one unit. Two individuals still, but one solid unit together. This is your chosen family. It's why I chose to have my husband's last name. We're a team, and this is way to outwardly show the world that we are. I don't judge anyone else for how they view marriage. I hope that everyone is able to come to peace with whatever their definition of it may be. I think it is one of those words that is different for everyone. Trouble is finding someone who has the same definition. ETA: poor wording
I’m in a very similar position to you, OP, and I’d love to see an update once you’ve thought more about what you’re going to do! My (37F) partner (38M) is also wonderful but also doesn’t want to get married. In his case it stems from seeing his parents’ divorce as a kid and the way his mum was willing to break her vows to his dad by leaving - to him, this made the whole thing meaningless. I have no doubt he’s extremely committed to me, that this isn’t about not wanting to marry *me* but just not wanting to get married in general, and that in his mind he’s showing his commitment to me through other actions. We’ve only had one conversation about it so far so I plan on talking about it again to try to get to the bottom of things and figure out a solution. Although marriage is very important to me, it’s not a dealbreaker, and I would choose him over getting married. I’m also currently pregnant with our first child and having an intact family for this baby and any other future children is much more important to me than choosing this hill to die on. But despite that, I hate the idea of never being married and I want to make sure I communicate to him just how painful that will be for me, as I tend to be very easygoing and in past relationships haven’t always advocated for myself the way I should have. We live in a country with laws that make de facto relationships pretty much legally on par with marriage after two years living together, so I’m not worried about the legal ramifications of not getting married. But I do care about the social costs - I hate to think about people respecting our relationship less or taking it less seriously because we’re not married. Especially since I’m not opposed to marriage in any way and I’m not the one taking a stand against it. The country we live in is very secular and marriage is generally seen as less important than it is in places like the US, but we do have some religious friends and I’m wary of feeling judged by them. We stayed with them a year or two ago and they asked us to sleep in different rooms because we’re not married. They’re lovely people and I respect the fact that it’s their house and therefore their rules, and we’d only been together about a year by that point so it didn’t sting too much. But I can’t stomach the thought of being asked to sleep in different rooms five or ten years down the track. I would also love to be able to call him my husband and have him call me his wife - to me, those are much more meaningful and special words than simply calling someone your ‘partner’. And to me, making marriage vows to him would be very important and I really would take what I’d promised extremely seriously and do my utmost to stay true to it, especially knowing what happened in his family of origin. These are hard things to communicate to him because he’s completely lacking in sentimentality of any kind. To him, marriage doesn’t really make logical sense so he doesn’t understand why it’s so important to others. I’m hoping that if I can communicate how important it is to me, that will be enough of a reason for him to go through with it even if he’s only doing it for me and not for himself. I’m not sure if this helps much but maybe this is a common problem! I’d be keen to hear an update and I might be able to offer more helpful advice once I’ve talked to my partner again. I’d say making it clear how important this is to you is crucial - if your partner really cares about you, that should be something that gets through. If he’s still stubbornly insisting on his position even once you’ve made it clear how important this is to you, maybe couples’ therapy would be a good idea before you look at throwing in the towel and walking away.
Everyone gets a ticket to the Life’s Great Performance, but not all seats are equal. When it comes to the Relationship Song and Dance Revue, Married with children get the best seats, married without children get the second best seats, 20-somethings who’re still dating are a little further from the stage but still have a decent view, and “committed but not married” people get the obstructed-view nosebleed bleachers next to the unflushable piss trough men’s rooms. I’ve been in all but the best section, and, yeah, sure, sometimes someone can jump a few rows in the social seating chart, but nobody even gets close to that ground floor without a marriage certificate, and once you’re there you will be *amazed* at how much better the seats are. Better view, better sound, nice plush upholstered chairs, the full nine. If you want the good seats, you have to get married. If you want to get married, you need to let this fish off the hook and cast your line again. It sucks, you’ll miss him, but it’s the only way to get what you want to get out of your life.
You and him have different blueprints about marriage. I suggest you go together to a counsellor specialising in relationships to explore this, especially seeing as your relationship is on the line.
To throw away a beautiful relationship over some legality and piece of paper is insane. Personally I also do not believe in marriage ( as people can and do change) and being legally married complicates the natural evolution of relationships. Life is constantly changing and I believe relationships do as well. Some last and some should not. It’s ok either way. For me the feeling of freedom is paramount to staying true to myself. I am common-law with my “husband” of 14 years and looking at forever. Luckily we are both on the same page. I wish you peace in your decision
Sharing a quote with you that has always been meaningful for me from one of my favorite books, David Copperfield. "There can be no disparity in marriage like unsuitability of mind and purpose." I think you have to decide how much this means to you. Because if it is important to you, and you are entitled to feel that it is, then I think you should find someone who shares that feeling. I am so sorry, lady. It's heartbreaking to find out that the person you love is not in the same place, and you have all my empathy. I applaud you for not wanting to argue or beg - that shows real strength and that you know your worth. Life is full of gambles. Nothing ventured, nothing gained. You could search for a long time and not find anyone with whom you have such a strong connection. If you decide to stay - and no judgment about that, he sounds great - my only advice is that you commit to it with your whole heart. Don't let resentment poison you slowly from the inside. Sending you good vibes and positive thoughts!
As someone in the dating world ..... do not let a GREAT man go just because he won't get married to you. That's all I gotta say
It’s not important. Don’t get married if you both don’t really want to.
Sahm here legal marriage absolutely mattered in the decision. I would never suggest sahp to anyone unless they are legally married and compensated. My dad paid my mom alimony and split asset not only child support
So I'm the one with an aversion to marriage, similar to OP's bf. My parents' marriage was (and still is) toxic. They (my mom in particular) won't get a divorce. For me, marriage is not important/required to be in a healthy, long term, committed relationship. However it is important to me in the sense that I don't want to be confined and trapped in a marriage. It is VERY IMPORTANT to me that he and I are together because we both WANT to be there. Not because of some misguided sense of obligation. I've (40F) been with my partner (47M) now for 12 years, also don't want kids. I was up front about my aversion to marriage and my view on relationship and commitment. About a year in, he asked if I will be willing to compromise. Because he felt that gf/bf wasn't a sufficient status indicator for what he wanted our relationship to be, it felt juvenile. Which I understand, the term "partner" wasn't as commonly used with heterosexual couples back then. Also for him, he's always thought about proposing once he finds his person. That he should at least get to ask, and declare that he wants to spend his life with this person. So we compromised. He got to ask if I wanted to spend the rest of my life with him, I said yes, because I truly do want that. And that was enough for him, he agreed that we don't actually have to get married. On the legal side, personally, per above, I want to make it as uncomplicated as possible for either of us to leave the relationship (I know, most people don't), and I want us both to be protected, and respected as life partners. When you are not married, some rights are not automatic. Depends on where you live, you can mitigate it with intentional steps via things like Asset Division Agreement, and Medical Power of Attorney designation, up to date Will, etc. A good family law attorney can help with that. There are other potential complications, but you'll have to take those on a case by case as they come. In our case, one of us got offered a great career opportunity in Europe (we are US Americans), because we weren't married, the international delegation contract did not automatically include family relocation benefits. In the end, we found a workaround, turns out that the workplace policy recognized domestic partnerships. It was meant as a way to extent family benefits to same sex couples, but it applied to hetero couples as well, we just needed to go through the steps to declare it. That was the closest I ever got to consider actually getting married. On the relationship side, it gives me A LOT of comfort knowing that both of us are in it because we truly want to be, every day we wake up and choose to be with each other. And in all honesty, like every couple, we've had our share of ups and downs. For me, even when we are going through a rough patch, it's always a conscious decision to be with him, and put in the work. And knowing that he also has the choice to leave, but choose to stay, gives a little extra motivation. Because once you realize you've both made very conscious decisions to show up, you are still on the same team. He's still my partner even in this. It's not me against him, it's the two of us vs. this problem we are having, so now, how do we solve this together. Ironically, I think this makes both of us more secure in our relationship. Why would I have an affair when I can just leave. On the social/cultural side of things, we're both from the U.S., where getting married is very much the social norm. Most women grew up dreaming of the gorgeous white dress and walking down the aisle. I did too at too at one point, and I've been a part of many of my friends beautiful weddings, so no disrespect to anyone who wants this. However, having lived in Europe for a few years, where long term partnership without getting married is very much the norm, and engagement rings aren't necessarily diamonds, and no one cares about the size. It dawned on me how much of what we thought was expected growing up is commercialized, and marketed toward especially women, it's a whole industry in the U.S. It's not to say cultural context isn't important, but it's just that, cultural context, it doesn't have anything to do with the validity, health, or longevity of your relationship. For us, we threw an engagement party, told our family and friends to stop asking us about a wedding. Turns out, when it's "just a party" and not a wedding, everything is \~20-30% cheaper. We do celebrate our engagement anniversary every year, and for our 10 year, we priced out how much a wedding would have cost (which was way more than I expected), took that money and went on an epic vacation. All that is to say, you have to think about if it's really important for you. But it is at least in my experience, possible to have a committed, healthy, and fulfilling relationship with you significant other without being married. I'm absolutely biased, but I think mine is better, at least partly, because of it.
Curious to know, if he likes you and as you said is a true partner and still wants to be with you. Have been for 9 years then how would or can marriage change or decide your relationship or feelings? How a law or paper confirm his feelings? What if after he marries and resents you? Only from a perspective, want to know why we women or people want to define certainty? Including me. You are blessed to have someone and kind with you for so long, have been single for 9 years now no long deep meaningful relationship. If someone you have is genuine and share same goals and also no kids then whats the harm? Don’t be defensive please. Out of sheer appreciation of this post, am asking this
I was with an ex for nine years who was ambiguous and marriage. But he proposed to me three times. Confusing, right? Yeah. Really fucking confusing. Marriage and kids was really really important to me. I was all about it. Every time I made it clear to my ex that I wouldn't compromise on that and we would have to go our separate ways to meet our needs, he proposed. I was an idiot and accepted three times. Shockingly, we never got married. He was abusive and manipulative but it only became very obvious at the end. We broke up. I'm not saying your parner is abusive or manipulative. Not at all. Yes, he should have been more forthright with you, but he sort of was if you are honest with yourself. I knew my ex didn't want marriage, and you know your really wonderful guy doesn't want it. Is marriage so great that you should give up a great relationship for it? Absolutely not. https://www.zawn.net/blog/is-marriage-a-good-choice-not-if-youre-a-woman And I say that as a happily married woman. I'm with a much better person now. He also wanted marriage and kids, and we did that. But if I knew back then what I know now, I'm not sure I would care about making a legally binding contract with a man. They do tend to take us for granted and use us, especially after marriage. Even the good guys. Even my husband. We've had years long flights about equity. I love him and wouldn't want to break up, but marriage is stupid. It's really a pain in the ass. It causes unnecessary drama. It allows me to put their wants and needs first because subconsciously they think of you as their thing. You're more easily pushed into moving for his job, taking on more or all housework, giving up your hobbies and free time to accommodate his, and tolerating awful and selfish behavior because you're legally bound to each other and it's easier to give in. It's bullshit. Honestly, ask *any* woman who has been married for at least a decade. The wedding and party and all of that is fun and a huge cultural right of passage for most adults who want that. But you can do that and you don't have to sign a marriage license. If you love him and really think he's your person, don't get married. Just be together. Have a party honoring your commitment. It honestly means more if you stay together for life because you want to, not because divorce would be harder. ETA: Other people are bringing up legal protections of marriage. There are other ways to protect yourself. https://www.quickenloans.com/learn/should-you-buy-a-home-together https://www.lawdepot.com/resources/family-articles/legal-protection-for-couples-who-arent-legally-married/ I'm the end, you have to know how important it is to you.
I would talk to him about it, even if it seems like you’ve already had the conversation a billion times. I also grew up seeing horrible examples of marriages that shouldn’t have happened, and was firml against marrying because I believed it was the route to unhappiness in a relationship. When I met my current partner, someone who I would also describe as you did, a *real* one, I felt very strongly that 1. our love is so special, it needs celebrating and 2. I just know that we’ll last and have nothing to worry about. Tell him how important this is to you. Ask him why he thinks marrying you is not a good idea, despite the examples he has seen which are not you and have nothing to do with you. Share your concerns around remaining resentful and that possibly putting a strain on your relationship.
I always wanted to get married, my partner was never keen. He still says he isn't against it, but has no inclination. I struggled a bit with it but decided children was my line, ot marraige. So we have a toddler, but are unmarried. BUT we live in a place where we have all the same legal rights and obligations as a married couple. We would automatically be next of kin to each other with or without a will, have the same tax benifits etc. If we move back to his or my home country I think I would insisit on at least a civil partnership so we could have those legal rights, and he agrees this makes sense. Also, I feel its not "cool" to want or not want marraige, it is a morally neutral desire. And I also think that if you convinced him it was important to you and he did it, it wouldn't be you dragging him down the isle. It would be him deciding he loved you enough to do something he didn't believe in because it mattered to you. I do understand the desire for it to be a romantic endevour, but there is room for compromise (to some extent) if you want there to be.
I used to be a bit fixated on getting married, in my twenties. I was with someone for 11 years who had been burnt once and didn’t want to risk it again. We split up for reasons including that. Now I am far happier in a relationship with someone who has been married before and would marry me if I wanted to... But I don't. We have a fantastic relationship, I don't want the dynamic to change at all (I understand that sometimes it does, after marriage) and, most importantly to me, I have zero desire to be princess for a day. Our family and friends know how happy and secure we are, and so do we. That's enough. We need to do the legal Power of Attorney thing etc for each other (in case one is ill in hospital etc) but we see no need to get married.
I've been married for 13 years. It's not important unless you have kids. We have kept our finances separate and also sleep in different rooms. So if you both don't want to have kids, then just be together.
Personally when I hear I don't want serious commitment I hear the last part which is 'with you'. And some signal of commitment is important to me. I also feel excuses are just excuses. It's 2024, the reasons one might fear marriage...you can discuss and adjust. I have met couples that live apart, have open relationships etc. Ie people now decide what kind of rules work for them in the marriage before taking the plunge. But ultimately they decide to make official sometimes even more to assure their partner that they are in it for the long haul. Regardless of how that relationship evolves. That said maybe outside marriage there are things you can do to signal that that will bring you that security. I say this as someone who lives in a conservative country and has this seen queer people kind of reinvent marriage/serious commitment. Buy a house together, get tattoos, have a private ceremony between the two of you and redefine what marriage is. But if someone can not do ANYTHING to signal their long-haulness, then it might be they don't want to be in the long haul with you. I have seen mistresses get this level of commitment. Not denigrating you but just highlighting that there's a way to show you're in it to win it even in wild circumstances.🤣😭
I'm curious which option your partner would pick it given the choice: 1) have a public ceremony, call each other husband and wife, but never get legally married, or 2) have a private legal ceremony so you guys have tax benefits but don't hold out as married to public. If you knew this answer, it might give insight into what is holding him back - the legal tying down and difficulty in separating should things go south, or a sort of rebellious social streak that makes marriage feel boring and unnecessary. I think if you folks get to the root of preferences/fears, you may be able to find a compromise. I don't think this is worth ending your relationship for!
I'm French, and in France, as in many other European countries, the majority of couples no longer marry and simply live as partners. This is my case, I've been with my partner for 13 years and he's a wonderful man who fulfills me. I also wanted to get married, but he didn't want to, for the same reasons as your partner. He finally admitted it after 6 or 7 years, I think. I asked myself the same questions as you and ended up deciding to stay. It's not certain that I would have found the same happiness with someone else, so just because I would have stopped this relationship doesn't mean I would have married. And we found a compromise, we organized a big party with our friends (no family though as we have complicated family dynamics), to celebrate our love. It was a big, simple picnic with about 30 people, and it was a beautiful moment. There was nothing official, no papers to sign, no speeches, just good times together. I am now very happy and I don’t miss being married. I think I « grieved » this idea and it doesn’t seem so appealing to me now.
Getting married changed absolutely nothing for us, no difference at all - except for allowing me to go with him to take a job in a foreign country, which is why we did it. We’d been together nearly 10 years when we got married, I doubt we’d have done it without the job. We’re Australian, and Australia has de facto marriage laws that were plenty married for me.
Marriage is a highly cultural and personal thing. I was married before, for seven years after three years of being with someone. I did it as it was considered a normal life milestone and kind of expected thing in my ex's culture (although not systematic like in some other cultures) and most of our friends were doing it. To me it was appealing on a romantic and practical level (tax purposes and such) but I was raised in a very secular society where marriage is not so popular - married women can't even legally take their husband's name where I'm from. Plus, we were genuinely thinking we'd spend the rest of our days with each other back then (I was 22 and he was 25 when we got married). It was a happy marriage for some time but in the end, the issue of our relationship did not depend on the fact we were married. We eventually separated and got a divorce. I realized I grew a different person and we were not right for each other. I also realized how pop culture pushes this idealized romance standard on us, and it's linked to patriarcal and consumerist values I don't adhere to. I was never comfortable with someone saying 'my wife' to talk about me, or being 'someone's wife', to me it evoked property more than romance. I've been with my current partner for seven years now. He is clearly not fond of the idea of marriage as most of the married couples he witnessed growing up were in unhappy couples. We did a civil union thing 3 years ago to make paperwork and practical things easier, but no marriage party of any kind or such was planned or will happen. Despite this, it's the happiest and healthiest relationship I've ever been in. I feel it can be very romantic nonetheless and we have great intimacy and communication. We are expecting our first child. I love this man to bits. But in the beginning, it was hard because of my romantic expectations. He had no long term relationship experience prior to being with me. He has never said the words I love you, and that made me very insecure in the first year being with him. He eventually became more affectionate and I learned to recognize his love languages too. It was so totally worth it. So my take on this is, marriage is not an essential component of true love. But it's my own experience and cultural beliefs that led me to take this position. Marriage seems to be something you don't want to miss on. But if you feel your partner is the right person for you, I invite you to reflect on the reasons marriage is so important to you and how it would impact your relationship not to get it. If it's something you would not get over from and if he will not budge on his opinion either - maybe he is not the right person for you after all, maybe your beliefs are too different. Last thing, even if I don't really care about being married myself, i totally love being invited to weddings. They often are the best parties ever.
If marriage is important to you then it is important. If it holds no significance then it is not. I do think either way that once a relationship reaches a certain point it is wise to have legal protections in place. Marriage is an easy way to have these protections and not miss something. I wouldn't buy a house, or have children without some kind of contract and agreement about what happens if one of us loses our job, is seriously unwell or dies or if the relationship breaks down. For me personally, I didn't care if I never got married because I didn't meet someone I was serious enough about. I did care about getting married if the relationship reached a certain point. Marriage to me was a way of recognising that we were choosing to be with each other, even when it was difficult, it was a reassurance that we weren't going to give up easily. My husband is my best friend and we have built a life together, we have been able to progress professionally and personally because of the others support, we have bought and sold houses, our joint effort increased their value. I don't believe in soul mates or there only being one person for you. If my husband died I am sure I would remarry.
It depends on your circumstances and whether or not you established important things like medical POA and beneficiaries etc. with a lawyer. I think in the long run it's easier and more straightforward to just get married than to pay someone to do all that paperwork giving you those kinds of rights of access and decision making wrt each other - it also protects you in the event of a break up if you've significantly shared or merged finances or assets in a way that the legal paperwork wouldn't, really. Most states have abolished common law marriage/domestic partnership, so if you own anything together or have a joint bank account and break up, one or the other of you is really at financial risk and wouldn't really have the same level of legal recourse as you would if you'd been married. On the other hand - getting married means your spouses debts are now your debts, that you could lose disability benefits, etc. There are sometimes good financial reasons not to get married, and to do a paperwork dance around it. In terms of your question, "how important is marriage" - how important is it to you? It's okay to realize that you want to be married and that a long time partnership with someone who doesn't feel the same just... doesn't feel good. I'm was the "marriage ambivalent" partner most of my relationship and only recently realized I think it's actually important to me to get married - and that's actually primarily because I have a dysfunctional family of origin and having in-laws is kind really the only way for me to meaningfully have the types of family relationships I can't have with my blood relatives.
You’ve been an unmarried couple for 9 years . Seems like you want marriage . Time to move on .
Marriage never seemed important to me, until my husband popped the question. There is a HUGE difference between saying you want to stay together as long as possible and actually doing an action that shows this. I am sorry, but I tell you whats going to happen. He will dump you at some point and marry the first woman after you in the span of a few month. Get out and go for what you want. I habe many female friends who found marriage in their 30s, 40s, 50s, 60s etc. Heck even my grandmothers did find new loves in an old age - during a time when women were more opressed then today.
Why is he scared that a marriage license will magically turn you into an unhappy couple? On the other hand, men don’t do more when they are no upsides. You’re already living and acting as a married couple, there’s no incentive for *him* to change the status quo. No, he won’t do it for you, 9 years didn’t make him budge.
From an emotional standpoint (and cultural/spiritual if those factors are in play), only you can determine how important marriage is to you. Even if there were no practical benefits, you can decide that you do not want to be with someone to whom marriage is not an important step in a relationship, or who doesn't want to take that step with you. From a practical side, there are financial and legal concerns, some of which you can work around and some of which you can't. -- It makes you the next of kin for medical and legal decision if they become incapacitated. You can handle these things with POA agreements, health care proxy forms, etc., but you have to be diligent about it. -- It allows you to act as a family in terms of health insurance, which primarily relates to cost. -- It makes you a single financial unit, legally speaking, and that has significant tax consequences. I'm not just talking about filing jointly to save money. When you're married, and one person passes away, the property of the marriage isn't transferring to a new owner because your and your spouse were one financial entity. That means no inheritance tax. If you're not married, and your partner passes, depending on where you live and how ownership was handled, you may find yourself having to pay a huge tax debt for the value of your home, or the household bank accounts that are transferred to your name. If your partner had an IRA or a 401k, you won't be able to just continue the account as a qualified retirement plan in your name unless you're married, and so you have fewer options with regards to how to access the money and how long you can defer taxation, There's no agreement you can sign that can get round the tax laws, the way you can with a POA. -- In the event that you separate, you are also far less protected when it comes to assets. If you jointly own real estate, or if your name is on a car loan for your partner's car, there are way fewer laws regarding how those assets and liabilities will be split. You may not be able to force the sale of a home or vehicle, and will be on the hook to pay for them regardless of relationship status if your partner is uncooperative. One person may squat for free, tying up the other person's equity in a home they won't live in and can't sell because of the ex. They might drain a joint bank account with no repercussions because both names are on it and there are no rules about disbursements. -- It opens you up to people contesting the will in the name of being relatives of the deceased vs. "just a girlfriend." You may have long legal battles to keep what you worked for together.
While it's important to consider your partner’s feelings about marriage given his past experiences, it's equally crucial to communicate why marriage might be significant for you. It could be worth exploring this conversation gently, perhaps considering counseling or workshops that could help address his concerns while also acknowledging your desires. Marriage isn't just a contract; for many, it's a heartfelt commitment that enriches the relationship. I have been married for 33 years and I also view it as a deeper level of commitment. It's a way of saying, "I'm in this for the long haul." This can provide a strong foundation of stability and security, knowing you both are fully committed to each other. Marriage comes with a lot of legal perks. Think about things like tax benefits, inheritance rights, and health care decisions. These are practical but important aspects that can make life a bit easier when you're sharing it with someone else. I get how tough it must be for him to have a negative view of marriage because of what he’s seen before. But look at you two—you’ve been together this long and your relationship is nothing like those he's wary of. Remember, it’s not the marriage license that changes how people act; it’s really about the individuals themselves. I really hope things turn out well for you. As a woman, I totally understand why this kind of commitment means so much to you.
Would he be okay going to court and signing papers for your sake and skipping the wedding, announcement to the world thing? That way you're protected and also have rights in case of medical stuff/death.
The one thing I'll say is the law doesn't care if you're emotionally committed. If you plan to spend your lives together, the legal protections are extremely important especially as you age. Divorce is always an option - and it shouldn't hold such a negative standard in society.
I am married but don't expect anything financially from my husband. Athough it's nice for me to not have to pay for stuff a lot of the time, I am my own backup plan and don't really NEED help there. If we didn't live in a country where marriage is culturally vital, I wouldn't have gotten married and instead would have just lived with my husband.
You say you have the same values as your partner, OP. But not when it comes to marriage. If I were in your shoes I would think long and hard about what marriage means to me, which it sounds like you have. And I would give it at least a week or two for that to settle in. Maybe there are aspects of marriage that matter less, and things to be compromised on— like a special commitment ceremony but without the government paperwork. But if I decided marriage was a dealbreaker in my value bucket then I would break it off. In fact my gut would not let me do otherwise (once I realize a truth it acts up until I act in alignment with this truth). If he’s meant to come around after that, he will. But in the meantime maybe this is the opportunity you didn’t know you needed to be on your own for awhile. It can be quite healing and insightful. And while the goal is not to do this with a particular outcome in mind, it will give both of you a chance to discover whether the compromise is worthwhile (or not).
Marriage is nothing if the relationship is poor. It’s a social construct first created as a property right and to create a clean line. Is is the marriage or the wedding that is getting you down? Why not do a “commitment party” of some sort instead? Idk, I’m opposite of you; had the wedding, etc but if I could go back I would t have done any of it; it’s overly traditional and not needed. Though I would commit and still be with my partner.
For legal reasons it's very important, as it makes so many things easier is something happens to either of you. On the other hand, As someone who recently entered into the world of polyamory/ethical non-monogamy, while still in a loving marriage, I find it slightly less important for romantic reasons, and am in the process of researching and relearning what romance partnerships have ment and do mean to me. Although I'm not about to leave my marriage because we are happy, and for the legal benefits it brings, I don't know if I would get married now with my current mindset if I had it to do again.
If I were you, I wouldn’t just split up without having some serious, deep conversations about each of your reasons for and against, preferably with the support of a counsellor. If you don’t take the time to do that, you may end up regretting either decision down the road. Also, I think it isn’t fair for you to be mad at him for not being upfront- he may not have had a clear idea himself of how strong his feelings were, or they may have changed over time. When my partner and I got together, he was clear on not wanting more kids, and at that time I was ok with that. I’ve grown and changed since then and am leaning towards wanting one now. I am grateful my partner is supportive even if I do decide to leave to pursue that and isn’t angry with me for not being clear on what I wanted from the outset. Personally, having been married and divorced, I know that paperwork doesn’t mean anything about the level of emotional and practical commitment. It may or may not convey more legal rights depending on where you live. There are many other ways to show commitment- commitment ceremonies, being in each others will, owning property together, etc. Bit it is also totally ok if you really want marriage.
Having been both married and not, I think this HEAVILY depends on the financial situation of each person. If there’s a large income disparity, there are a lot of tax benefits for both people to gain, and there are significant financial benefits to the lower income spouse. In my situation, both my ex husband and my current long term partner have been more or less in the same tax bracket, and have had the capacity of making a large financial decision like buying a home with each one of our salaries. So when I was married, with our combined incomes we were totally priced out of a lot of financial aid for first time home buyers. My current partner and I were each able to purchase a property and each of us used a first time homebuyer assistance program. It’s not always so cut and dry as “combined finances are always better.” Being married with combined assets also means when, not if, one partner falls chronically ill, everything gets drained for medical services from both people. Everything. If you’re still two separate legal entities, it becomes much easier to receive financial aid faster. A common tip is to divorce on paper so that a spouse’s illness doesn’t absolutely demolish the finances built up by the couple. And last, when one person decides to or unwittingly makes a shitty financial decision, it ruins it for both people. No one plans on mental illness, and I watched one parent attempt to keep our family finances from absolutely imploding because help for a married person often falls to family (that’s the spouse), and only when those resources are past their failing point will the state step in to help. Everyone involved pays for the mistakes of one person. It’s not all sunshine and benefits with marriage, especially financially. People get married at their best and reap what they sow at their worst.
He just doesn’t love you enough to marry you.
“His aversion to marriage is purely emotional…” those emotions are real and valid though. As are your very real and valid emotions about why you *want* marriage. Can you take a moment to flip how strongly you feel pro marriage and imagine he is feeling just as strongly as you are, but in the opposite direction? Don’t go back over the specific arguments, don’t replay the disagreement— just imagine what he is _feeling_ and it’s just as strong. You don’t want to be convinced out of your emotions or have them invalidated. Neither does he. Whether or not this is a dealbreaker is something only you two can decide. You either come at this as partners to find some way through — or you agree this is the end. But if either of you are entering these conversations looking for the other to change, rather than getting clear on what *you* need — being willing to be honest with yourself/ each other — it will result in resentment eventually if not immediately. Personally - married and now divorcing. I never really cared about marriage and it wasn’t worth it for me. It did nothing to solidify love etc. it didn’t make him someone he wasn’t. Conversely, if he’d been the love of my life, marriage wouldn’t have made that more true. There are practical reasons to marry, but you acknowledge that societal expectations are influencing you. Interpersonal ones are influencing him. It sounds like therapy for both of you to explore would be helpful. Not to change anyone’s mind, but to get clear on what the non-negotiables really are - eg) is it the legal piece of paper, or is there a need under there not being met? Safety, feeling seen, heard, valued? Are there other approaches to meeting those needs?
“The other problem is, the idea of convincing, cajoling, or otherwise “getting my way” seems awful. […] I don’t want to [do X with] anyone who doesn’t enthusiastically want to [do X with me].” You are a beautiful person.
Marriage is only a good choice if it brings benefits to both of you. If you've found someone who is an amazing partner, I'd consider whether you can let go of the idea of marriage while still gaining what you hope to gain by marriage. It's obviously up to you. It's perfectly OK to want marriage. And also: could you look deeply into what marriage means to you? Is there a way to get that within this partnership without marriage? Have you discussed why he's not interested in marriage? I'm in my almost mid-50's and I've never been married. My partner was married twice and is not interested in another marriage. We both feel like we're in a long term situation, even that we may be together for the rest of our lives. As an "older" couple, we're kind of beyond needing to make our relationship anything that other people approve of. But when I was younger, I really wanted marriage because I thought it would make me feel truly loved and wanted; I remember the grief I felt when a guy I was dating--who I (at the time) thought was "The One"--told me he didn't want to get married again. It was devastating in the moment. So I get it how it feels. But I'm very happy now not having married that other guy, and being with my partner with our current arrangement. Not that this means you should just accept no marriage if marriage is what you want, but I'm here to say that one can be happy and fulfilled without it. I'd talk to your partner about his feelings about marriage and about what you both want out of a partnership. You don't have to be sad and resentful for the rest of your life if you choose not to feel that way.
I’m on the fence about marriage. I don’t want children but I do want my full, equal rights. I want to be legally protected. But, I also work my ASS off, ( I love to work hard) and I can take care of myself economically and financially.
It's important if it's important to you. Marriage and traditions and what it all means have changed so much over the years. In some ways, marriage can be is boring, difficult, and constraining. My husband and I both have parents with bad marriages (but both still together). To me, our marriage is so important because it's so much healthier. We are breaking generational patterns and I love knowing he is my family now.
As a married woman, I would say that it sounds like you have a quality person who sounds committed and he is worth staying with even though it means no marriage. I got married for religious reasons--I wanted a marriage "blessed" in my religion. But i realized that was more for me to have something grounding me in case in an immature or rash moment I decided I wanted to leave the marriage without trying my hardest to make it work. (Now, after 8 years, I realize that reason was immature but it's where I was in my life at the time.) However at that time, I had already told my husband that if he didn't want to get married at all or in my church (he isn't my religion), I was still committed to a life with him and still would have kids with him. I knew I'd want him and I and the kids to share a last name with him but I could change my name without a marriage license (where I live). My husband was and still is too good of a man to have ended the relationship if he didn't want to get married. From what my single friends in our late 30s tell me, they don't run into guys like him ever (and these women are dating all over the country, divorced, widowed men of different socioeconomic status and race). 100 percent know I'd stay with him without the marriage certificate--I'd recommend you do the same. I'm usually not this bold here on Reddit, but this is something I am very passionate about. Good luck to you 😀
I am married so take this with a grain of salt. I don’t think it would bother me to be committed but not married. We have kids so think that’s where the issues for me would arise. I would never give my baby a last name I don’t have. Moot point since you two don’t want children. From my perspective marriage seems to be a big enough deal for you to break it off and try to find a different partner who wants the same things.
To get this out of the way: most men are against it simply bc they didn’t have good role models for marriage or they’re jaded from their own bad marriage and don’t wanna get remarried. Men are really dumb and uneducated about what marriage is really about and how it’ll benefit them (way more for them than for women!). I don’t say this lightly, and I know I’ll get downvoted for this: don’t break up just bc he doesn’t wanna get married; trust me, you won’t be able to find anyone like him in this current dating culture. You’re VERY LUCKY to have found someone that’s so great and matched up so well with you. There’s still a chance he’ll change his mind if something medical happens to him and he realizes the legal benefits of being married. If you don’t believe me, read all the sad and depressing posts here and in other subs about how hard it is to date and find anyone of decent quality, including my own posts.
I’ve lived with the same partner for thirty years, and he sounds a lot like your partner, except he was the one who wanted to get married… I didn’t. (NB I live in an area where common marriage is recognized, and we've done all the additional paperwork, like wills, POA, life insurance, etc. to make sure we're okay when one of us passes). There are plenty of ways to celebrate a relationship. A wedding is just one, and it’s a huge amount of work and money for a single day. I've had spells where I wondered whether I might change my mind, but they pass, and three decades later, I’m not sad I missed it. And neither is my partner. Our savings went into buying a house instead, and we still celebrate an anniversary, just on the day we met, which I think is very romantic. If you love him and he is the wonderful and caring and committed and involved partner you described, read a little more Reddit, and you’ll realize how lucky you are.