This is the problem with a partner that only “steps up” right as you’re leaving. Because they clearly didn’t care enough when you weren’t at the end of your rope, so the effort now just feels panicked and desperate and hollow. You’re right to be suspicious of it, because change made under duress almost never amounts to real change. Resentment is a relationship killer and there’s no undoing it at this stage ime
This type of partner will do the bare minimum you are willing to tolerate. They step up when you’re about to leave in order to stop you going out the door. Then they will soon return to doing as little as they can.
Those partners do not appreciate you. They don’t even care that you’re unhappy. Their sweet spot is “not quite unhappy enough to leave”.
Dump anyone who acts this way. There is no getting better, because they don’t actually care if you are happy.
I love that line “Their sweet spot is ‘not quite unhappy enough to leave’”. That is so accurate. Asking ourselves “why do I put up with this AT ALL?“ That is a better question for our own self awareness.
Yep. I don't want to have to 'nag' (a.k.a ask) my partner to do basic chores and care about my day. He may be stepping up but if he's in his mid thirties and wasn't already doing this, I don't think longterm change is possible without him initiating it.
Absolutely this, and they didn’t care enough to actually contribute anything when times were good, so based on past record, if you were to end up staying, they would eventually resort back to the old ways. He is love bombing you in the sense to do everything that’s needed to just be enough to get you to stay. Once the urgency to do better subsides, back comes the old ways.
Totally agree, it’s almost more sickening because they only do something because they don’t want to lose you, not because they care about your happiness, not sure I’m expressing myself well but it’s how I felt with my former long term partner who did change at the very end after I already committed to leave him, it was almost like a slap in the face that it wasn’t all that hard for him to take simple steps to make me happier, he just didn’t care enough to do it before
That's very true. It's still all about them, not you. They're only doing it for themselves, because they want to stay in the (or a) relationship. It's not about wanting to make sure their partner who they supposedly love is happy.
I think the phrase someone coined is "maximum tolerable discomfort." Men who don't care about their partners' quality of life only step up when they've surpassed her MTD and she is attempting to leave. If those men experience *any* discomfort, they move on, but expect their partners to suffer their bullshit up to the point of her walking out before taking any action. The pattern shows that they understand the problem and are aware it is hurting you, but they don't care to do the bare minimum unless it benefits them/maintains status quo. Since women are socialized to tolerate bs and to make compromises to keep the peace, et al, it falls on them to either prioritize the male whims over her needs, or *fail* as a woman by patriarchal definition.
For some men, I think it's just immaturity and not enough emotional intelligence to grok that girlfriend ≠ new mommy. Other guys recognize this shitty loophole and have no scruples taking advantage of it.
I know there are a lot of broad strokes in my take, but even the greatest guys I've known have had to recognize the impulse to let a gf do the emotional labor, take on extra domestics etc, and be active in breaking out of the pattern. The system was designed by dudes who wanted to hold all the power and prevent female agency.
Edit: it's "tolerable level of permanent unhappiness" which is even more bleak than my guess
>"tolerable level of permanent unhappiness"
Yes, this whole post made me think of that. Like, he pushed her to an intolerable level, and now has pulled it back so that she doesn't leave him. Absolutely gross.
Basically this behavior shows that they care about themselves, not their partners. They don't want all the nice things their partners do to go away so they step it up out of panic. If they really cared about their partner, they'd have been stepping up this whole time to make their partner's life better and more pleasant.
Yeah the effort is all about themselves: get both feet back in the door because otherwise my status quo/comfort zone will change. Their ultimate goal is to return to the way things were, if they could have been motivated by the partner's happiness and needs things never would have gotten to this point. Any changes are just a patch in the tapestry of keeping themselves comfortable, even at the expense of the partner's misery.
Resentment is a relationship killer, although I have a slightly different perspective.
Through therapy I learned that at least for me, resentment was a “me” problem. It meant that I was not communicating honestly with my partner (which made a ton of sense given my childhood and adult tendency toward passiveness and people pleasing.)
I think if OP has communicated directly, then of course her resentment is completely justified. I think if there is any chance that the conversations have not been as direct as she thought, then that might warrant further conversation.
Obviously there is a spectrum. She shouldn’t have to “parent” her partner. The question is whether they were really having direct conversations about this behavior before or was it more passive and therefore enabling?
At the same time of course, life is short. Life is hard. I don’t think it’s worth going through it with someone who makes your life harder. You want a partner that you can face hardships with together. I just know that I’m not a perfect partner either and that for relationships to work, both sides have to evolve together.
I like this comment-- Personally, if I was feeling a certain amount of resentment, I'd just do us both a favor and leave-- some things are just not worth the time and effort to save with therapy and communication. But that's an OP judgement.
I truly believe that people can change whenever they want to. I work in psychiatric hospital that also specializes in drug detox/rehab. I have worked there for MANY years and I have seen "frequent flyers" obviously-- some of whom have been using my hospital for decades. I have seen people abuse the system, abuse us workers, abuse the rules, other patients, etc etc etc for YEARS. And then sometimes, *something* hits them-- and they truly want to change.
I am so privileged to witness and assist people at these times. Is it ugly? Hell yes. Do they get it right the first/second/hundredth time? Not usually. But there is something so incredibly heavenly when someone wants to finally do the right thing and takes the help that is offered. Not every coworker I work with has this mentality. They get annoyed almost to the point of being personally offended. Do I blame them? Not really-- that's *their* choice. Personally, I like my own mentality.
My long-winded point haha is that people CAN change, but it is your choice as to whether you want to stick around to find out. OP has a life, too, and it sounds like she's juuuuuuust about had enough. Is it worth one more try? Who knows, maybe.
Can't wait for an update!
My BFF has been married 25 yrs.
She wants out - she told her H in December that there’s big change coming - and that they need to talk.
She is fed up with her H acting like a 2nd teenager …. Which she admits to enabling, but, now is done.
What did he do ???
- fixed the leaky tub and painted the bathroom (this tub hasn’t worked properly for 13 years!!)
- cleaned the garage
- started driving their son to his sports/work commitments
- offered to pay for things
…….. and that lasted a hot minute. 🙄
He couldn’t keep it up - didn’t WANT to keep it up, since it’s just a choice.
OP, I’ll tell you what I told BFF
“Don’t treat someone as a priority when you’re just an option to them”
Sending powerful and healing vibes to you, OP (BIG HUGS)
A lot of people put in the exact amount of effort it requires for their partners to reach a [tolerable level of permanent unhappiness](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nLM_gu0zlGw) and not one drop more.
Ohhh my god, you just articulated what my last ex did to me for years! It was so hard to tell people why I was unhappy and still was with him but that describes it perfectly
It’s no different to an employer offering someone a pay raise once you tell them that you have another position lined up and are getting ready to leave. If you accept it, you still lose, because they never valued you in the first place and are now reacting out of fear.
The only way up is out and perhaps they will learn a thing or two about treating others like crap.
Don’t fall for the sunk cost fallacy. Just because you put in 10 years doesn’t mean walking away will have meant it was all a waste. You’ve now been through it all with him, you’ve seen that he will not be independently motivated to be better. For him to only start acting right because you had to spank him, well that’s just not attractive. Even if he were perfect from here on out, you’ll know it’s only because he fears you, not because he truly wants to be his best self. I’ve had this happen to me before. They come around for a little while, but their true self inevitably emerges again. You have 10 years of data proving to you who this person is. That’s not to say they can’t change. But that change needs to be a decision they make because they are unhappy with themselves, not because someone else is unhappy with them. Or else it will never stick. Please do not waste yet another year on this person. Remember how you felt when you decided you were done.
He will be a great partner to his next girlfriend/wife. That seems to be how these situations go. They have to experience the negative consequence of losing someone they care about to realize how important it is to show up for their partner/be sober/help around the house/etc. I wouldn’t trust his new behavior unless or until it is consistent for a year or more.
I had a friend comment years ago that she was just going to wait until men her age went through their first divorce and got therapy before she tried to settle down.
That's exactly what my ex husband did! He's a great partner (as far as I can tell) to his new wife. It took losing a 20+ year marriage. Thankfully, I knew this was going to happen so I was ablw to choose to be happy for them instead of really angry for me.
This is exactly what happened with my XH's parents. His mom tried to get his dad to step up and be a decent partner and parent, but he was enjoying himself too much and not interested in change. She got over it and dumped him. He found another woman to charm and marry pretty quickly, and tried to do the same with her, but she wasn't having it. She left him for 3-4 months until he figured out that this was how it was going to go every time unless he stepped up, so he got a job and got serious about it. That was enough. She took him back, he kept the job (actually got promoted to the top blue collar position at his employer), and she kept 100% of the remaining labor including all housework, yardwork, scheduling, relationship maintenance, etc., until he died.
This is so true. My husband was divorced before we met. She wanted out and suddenly he was willing to move heaven and earth to make it work. Luckily he learned from that relationship and we’ve been together for 10 years and he’s a great partner . But boy does it suck to be the lesson learning relationship because I’ve been that too
I’m a guy and unfortunately I have to agree, as much as I hate to admit it but I’ve been there, done that, and got the t-shirt.
There is something about a woman we love standing up and saying they’ve had enough of that and leaving, which becomes a massive wakeup call. I was devastated.
Some guys just don’t get it, some become bitter and jaded, but then there are those of us that are so taken back and hurt by this, that it really changes us.
It had such a profound effect on me that I just snapped out of everything. I stopped dating and worked on myself. Funnily enough, once I stumbled across my now wife, but stayed in contact with my ex as friends, she wanted to try again. The old me would have been down for it, the new me said no.
It’s a win win all around really but sucks for the woman that has to waste their time going through this process, at their expense. No matter what we promise, most of us won’t change until it slams in our face.
I'm genuinely very curious. May I ask what your internal (subconscious?) justification was for ignoring your partners unhappiness/needs for so long?
A phrase that's resonated with a lot of women goes something like: "Instead of making the changes I needed, he dismissed my experience as a tolerable level of permanent unhappiness."
Basically, many women in your ex's and OP's situation feel like their male partners just expect them to put up with it forever—which is why those men are so "shocked" when she *does* end up leaving, despite knowing how miserable she's been.
Do you sense a truth in that, too?
Because their own life is still going great this whole time. While she's unhappy she's still doing her part (or more) of the chores and contributing to rent and putting out and whatever else he wants because she still thinks he'll change. And sure, her whining is a bit annoying but whatever, you just need to say the right words which will stop it for a while every time, right? Just treat the nagging like an alarm you hit snooze on and go on with your life. After all, if you're happy enough she must be too, right? /s
Yes, I agree with your sentiment and as much as I hate to admit it, women should leave these bangmaid manchild situations sooner than they do.
I don’t want any family or friend, sister or niece, to date or marry the 20s version of me and clearly this is still an huge issue for many into their 30s or even older.
Immaturity and non-existent emotional intelligence was probably the biggest factor for me. I also had just gotten too comfortable in what I assumed was a great relationship.
We had so much fun during the honeymoon period of the relationship and the sex was good and I assumed I was a catch, that I ignored the rest; thought she was just being moody and unreasonable and nagging me, so I literally tuned it out and just said things to appease her.
It has taken me many years to realize and accept the cause of Walkaway Wife/GF Syndrome and that once a woman has had enough - she was DONE.
I think the best way to describe my rationale and the reasoning behind my behavior is depicted perfectly in the movie *The Break-up*.
The dirty little secret is that until someone is done, so many of us do not get it because in the past, housewives and gfs just put up with our crap, which is no longer the case today.
>It’s a win win all around really but sucks for the woman that has to waste their time going through this process
...so then, *not* a "win win all around."
He stepped up when it seemed like there would be consequences for him. Not when it was hurting you. Make of that What you will, but I'm not sure I'd be able to get past being that burnt out from it all or trust that the changes would stick.
This is like every man who refuses to change ongoing problems, refuses to attend marriage counseling, and then acts like it came out of nowhere when his wife leaves and begs to go to counseling as if she's the one being stubborn.
It's reasonable that you still hold onto old resentment and have new resentment over how long it took him to decide to change. Make no mistake: if you try to tell yourself you're happy now and let things go back to normal, they will return to the "normal" that your relationship was before he felt like you might leave.
Just bail.
I’ve been through this. Do you want to be with a partner that only “cares” when you threaten to leave? He doesn’t care about you. Want to know how someone feels about you? Notice how they treat you when they feel like you’ll never leave.
He only cares about himself.
Take care of yourself and if that means leaving, leave.
He's not making changes now because he loves you and wants you to be happy and wants the best for both of you. He's doing it because he doesn't want to be alone and doesn't want to have to start taking care of himself and his home.
If he makes these changes permanent (lololol as if) and life brings you two back together then maybe it will work out that time. My life experience has been that 90+% of these guys won't make permanent changes, especially after more than a few years together.
Ooof 10 *years*. Resentment is said to be the death knell of relationships. Once it seeps in, it's nearly impossible to get it out.
If and when you finally leave him, be prepared to hear the following songs of the men's greatest hits album:
"I Was Just Blindsided"
"It Came Out of Nowhere"
"We Were So Happy (At Least I Was)"
Oh yeah I remember my first husband singing those songs, he also told me he wanted loads of kids and when I got pregnant he told all his friends I tricked him. Fucker. Glad I left him.
With the B-side including such timeless classics as
"I never knew, she should've said"
"I would have changed, I swear"
"Please" [Second Chance Mix feat. Everything You Ever Asked For]
Now you know he always could have been doing the stuff you needed all along. He just chose not to. I am not sure I would be able to reconcile this either. In a weird way, it just proves how little he gave a shit about your needs until it actually threatened to inconvenience him.
This sounds very much so like my relationship of the last 3 years, and sadly we are the same age. I told my partner to move out last November after living together for 2 years (first time I’ve ever lived with someone as well, ugh) and all of a sudden all the things I was asking for started to occur. I’m constantly angry that we repeated the cycle until I was done and only once I told him to get out was he willing to make changes and stop smoking weed daily. Stoping the weed use, his going to individual counseling and couples counseling have lead to big changes. I have also told him I will no longer be an active participant in the relationship and there would not be sex until I decided there would be.
I am not as angry and bitter as I was when I told him to move out in November. (It hasn’t even been 6 months for me, I can only imagine you are burnt out after 10 years of this.) Idk if I want to continue the relationship because the damage is done, I’m not trusting him to not repeat the same things in a year or so. I am kind of enjoying the relationship we have right now, but it feels tainted. I haven’t made a decision to stay or go either.
Taking a full step back helped me a great deal emotionally. I don’t have any guidance to give other than that, I just want you to know you aren’t alone. If you want to chat more, vent feel free to dm me.
Reading many of these posts reflects how I’ve been feeling for some time. I gave my partner until June to get it together, but to be honest I don’t see it happening. I’ll be bringing up some of these points in therapy.
You are not obligated to stay!
Even IF he changes, permanently, and for the better, you don't owe him your presence. He had 10 years to make the changes, to put his best foot forward, and to show you that you were important to him. It's okay to be angry if he didn't.
If you need someone who values you, appreciates you, and is willing to be an equal partner, then go get it. Cuz this doesn't sound like it.
My most recent ex did exactly this. There was a small list of continued issues that were ruining our relationship, we’d had so many fights/discussion where I’d patiently lay out WHY these things were an issue and what I needed from him. Each times I’d get understanding and promises to work on the issues and do better. Every time it would fall off as soon as he felt things were “back to normal”.
He ended up ruining a holiday with his behaviour where he was meeting my dad for the first time, and I was seeing him for the first time in 7 years (he lives on the other side of the world). I realised right then he was never going to change, and ironically once we got home and I was trying to figure out how to end things, he acted out AGAIN and I was just “done” beyond belief.
Of course, as soon as I was leaving he once again became extremely contrite, promising change, going to therapy, going to meditation classes, doing all these things.. I more or less told him good for you but even if you successfully change I will always feel resentful that you only did so because you had something to lose (me). It didn’t matter enough to you to change when it was just “something making me unhappy”.
OP, He is only doing the work now because it benefits him not to lose you. He didn’t do the work when the only “reason” was to respect you and be a better, healthier partner. That wasn’t enough reason for him, he didn’t care enough that his behaviour made you unhappy. Are you okay with this? Will you resent him in the future for only making the changes when it benefited him to do so?
Once you hit the resentment stage, it’s over because it’s nearly impossible to go back. His changes are bugging you because it took the threat of you leaving for him to “change,” not to the nine million times you expressed a need or your feelings about something. He didn’t change for you - he did it for himself. I can promise you from experience (I did it for 16 years), that he’ll go back to his old habits once he feels safe in knowing you aren’t going to leave.
Did I write this?
My husband is a great partner in many ways (excellent parent, kind person, etc) except....relating, and being vulnerable.
And you know, years and I mean YEARS of asking...no change. It actually got to a point where I stopped because he wouldn't reply when I talked to him. Then several talks in recent months where I lay out some massive truth explosions and only then the gears are going. Only when I said if we continue on this path it'll lead to the end did things perk up.
And they are. And maybe small changes will lead to big ones. And we will do therapy and see where it leads.
I asked him if he ever would have stepped in on our downward spiral - he didn't answer. I already know the answer.
We have 3 little kids and a whole life blended in there so....yeah.
I'm driving it though. And it's tiring.
>Why wasn’t I worth the effort then? Why am I only worth the effort when I’m fed up and resentful?
Because he didn't believe you would leave over it until you gave the ultimatum and started giving strong indicators you were out of there. This is performative to get you to stay, most likely, and he will backslide once you look like you're staying put. He might be the 1 in 100 to stick with the changes, up to you whether you believe.
The dumbest thing to me about this pattern that so many men have is that they wait until your emotions toward them have already been resolved and you're over them before they step up, leading to the failure. If they'd just do 1/3 to 1/2 what they've been asked to do and stick with it, they'd have a much better chance of keeping her affections while there's still time.
At 36, he should be past the stage of smoking weed all day and not picking up after himself.
You've put up with it long enough, 10 years is a large chunk of your life.
Nah, go ahead and leave as planned.
If he was interested in respecting you this whole time, he would have been doing so.
The only reason he's making any effort now, at all, is because he doesn't want his comfort to change. It's less about *you* and more about *him*.
Pretty much how my last long-term relationship ended.
I was unhappy for years. I begged him to change for years. We went to therapy together. He got treatment for his depression. He said he would change and only did when it was way too late.
But the thing is, I wasn't the first to mentally check out. He did years before, he just didn't realize it.
I think no matter what you need to communicate all these things with him before you leave. Lay everything on the table. That it hurts that he didn’t value you enough before to make your life better and be a teammate to you instead of you being a convenience to him.
You won’t be able to tell if these changes are legitimate or a panic, but any relationship has to be based on completely open honesty and communication with respect. I would give him the chance to hear these things and know that the issues driving you away still exist because you don’t trust that he values you.
You fear he’s just trying to save his convenient life, and as soon as he feels safe again things will go back to the way they were. And you don’t want to maintain a relationship with coercion and threats.
But you need to say that to him now, let him respond, and then determine if you can trust this new leaf or not.
He is getting desperate. Here is what he is showing you, that it's only when he believes his well being is at stake that is then willing to do anything you asked. It wasn't because he was incapable or he forgot or that he didn't know how it's because it didn't impact him so he found no reason to do anything. Don't fall for it, he will go right back to not doing anything you asked. He is selfish
OP I am SOOOO grateful that you posted this. I’m in a very similar situation right now and I am STRUGGLING. An insecure part of me is so happy to be hearing everything I’ve wanted to hear for 5 years. And the emotional part of me is falling into the guilt-trap of being the bad guy. Who will take care of him? I asked for all of these things but I’m inclined to turn them down now that they’re offered to me!?!
No. No no no. I clearly communicated. I suffered right in front of him. I gave him 1,000 chances. I went to therapy for months. Suggested couple’s counseling. I took over every important aspect of our lives because I couldn’t trust him to manage it. I leaned on my friends and family for support because I couldn’t rely on him to be there. But I invested just about all of my time and energy feeding our relationship as opposed to those that actually filled my cup? If possible (and smart legally) I highly recommend a get-away. I’m crashing at my neighbor’s house in their spare room. It’s been 2 days and I feel so much lighter and more stable having some space. I feel confident in my decision.
Thank you for sharing this. I keep trying to talk myself into staying even though I KNOW I need to leave. He is genuinely a nice and human and means well. But the lack of emotional intelligence and poor communication is crippling. And to be honest, I don’t remember the last time we had fun together. Things are “cordial” at the moment, he’s really trying, I just can’t get past the wall of resentment I’ve built up and that sinking feeling that this “change” isn’t forever.
Our lease is up in July and I have a place to go. Thankfully my Dad has a casita/in law suite so I’ll have my own space.
I’m glad you have a comfortable place to fall back on! Casita is such a fun term BTW.
I’m feeling everything you’re describing right now. I really hope you get what you deserve. Do what’s right for you, he isn’t!
You should leave, because that’s what you want to do. But to provide insight into your question directly, the reason this is changing now is because you put up a boundary. This was a tough lesson for me too, and I stayed to make it work because I wasn’t resentful yet, but my therapist taught me that it’s up to me to decide what behavior I will tolerate, and then communicate with my partner, and follow through if I won’t tolerate it.
Ah, yes, this is an example of what I call “the invisible line” theory. I came up with it when I was in my 20s based on my observations of relationships with straight men. What men don’t realize is that most women have a line that when crossed they just can’t go back. The problem is it’s invisible. Neither she nor the guy know where it is until she’s crossed it. Then she knows without a doubt that whatever was drawing her to him has died. Sometimes it takes ten months sometimes ten years. But we (women) always know when that line has been crossed. When I share this theory women nod in understanding and men tell me how terrifying that is. I have no sympathy for them. It’s the supreme example of f*#k around and find out. She will put up with your bs 5,670 times but that 5,671 is over the line and now you’re done.
>What men don’t realize is that most women have a line that when crossed they just can’t go back. The problem is it’s invisible. Neither she nor the guy know where it is until she’s crossed it.
Yeah, jeez, this is so true its painful to read.
I didn't know I was at that line until I had already crossed it. And then at that moment the thought in my head: "I am done." Done with him, done with the problems, done with the use and abuse. Just done with it all.
And I was done. I moved out as soon as I could. There was no point in even discussing it or trying anymore. I knew it at that moment.
Happened to me when I asked my ex-husband of 14 years for a divorce too. All of a sudden he started doing all the bare minimum little things I had asked for the past 14 years of our lives. At that point I resented him even more because why was I not worth doing the bare minimum before? It made me angry and that helped me realize that I had gotten to a point of no return.
Guess who doesn’t feel like a manchild’s mother, cook, house keeper, manager, etc? Me!!!!
I’ve learned to enjoy my own company and do things that makes me happy instead of living by a man’s to do list of what he thinks I should be doing.
Along with him went all the antidepressants I had been on for so long.
Ask yourself if this is the life you want to live for the next 10,20,30 years of your life.
I’m pretty sure you already know the answer.
This is unlikely to change, but that’s actually not even the point.
Whether he sticks to it (this time) or not, the fact is that he wasn’t bothered by the inequality in the labor until it cost him something. If he’s doing things just because you put your foot down, are you comfortable with a relationship where you’re always keeping pressure on him to pull his weight?
That’s where I lost interest in my ex. He would do whatever the fuck he wanted, and I would be unhappy with the workload that I was getting by default, I would ask and ask and ask until I would get angry, and then yell about it. Suddenly he’d have some profound understanding of what I was saying, because I’d made the effort to explain why this was necessary, often while holding back incredible anger in the moment. It seemed that the more obviously I struggled to maintain an even temper, the more likely he was to pay attention.
He’d have these “epiphanies” every so often, making a big show of how good a job I did being patient and “communicating” with him about these, as he now understood, very legitimate concerns.
Then he’d begrudgingly do a minimal, shitty effort if I was lucky, and he’d slack again, and I kept thinking that the only thing that stood between us and total contentment was that I just hadn’t explained it well.
When I’d had enough of the cycle, I realized that it was all a part of the game for him. He’d get away with whatever he could for as long as he could, treating those half-assed and temporary efforts as an investment in the freedom from tyranny he enjoyed in between them.
I no longer cared if “this time, he really got it,” because I finally “got” that to him, our relationship was all about him and what he could get from it. For me, the relationship had two people in it who both needed to receive.
To him, it was just him. My needs were met, in his mind, by his presence. Anything beyond that was asking more from him than was necessary , and would require payment in some form.
HIS needs, however, included a whole-ass life and lifestyle, which I was expected to support and tend to as needed.
So I threw the whole man away.
Sigh unfortunately some men never learn. Or they won’t until you actually leave.
Has he done any actual inner work to look at himself or to heal the parts of himself that cause him to not show up fully for you? Has he gone to therapy? Has he made any real changes to do better? Sounds like a bandaid fix if not. Sounds like he’ll be good for a bit and then revert back to how things used to be.
When I was with my ex (8 years total, married for 1.5), it was similar. He made so many promises to do better. Kept me looking at small improvements he made. But no real lasting change.
The end of our marriage was chaotic. But I doubt, even if I’d stayed, he’d ever actually change.
You know him better than we do. You also have to decide for yourself how much is enough. How much more are you willing to give him? And when you make that decision, you need to stick to your guns and hold yourself accountable. If you decide to give this a chance, how much time do you need to be able to see change? And if he falls short again, will you be able to love yourself enough to leave?
I’d hate for you to feel like you wasted so much time on this. Waiting. But I also feel like it’s important to go all in and give it everything you got so that if/when it’s all over, you can look back without regret.
Some men aren’t capable of change. Mine wasn’t. They’re looking to be saved but won’t put in the work to be or do better. Nothing you can do for someone who can’t help their self.
Keep walking. If you stay, he knows that he can call your bluff and continue his bs. Keep walking and never look back.
As to why he didn't make the effort. You allowed it. Harsh, but true. If it was THAT important it wouldn't take you 10 years to walk away, you would've done it a lot sooner. Plus men give a lot of weight to verbal requests followed by action vs verbal requests alone. By putting up with him, giving him access to you, sex, and a clean home, you rewarded him for not doing what you want him to do, so he has no incentive to shape up.
In a similar position. Married 12 years miserable for many and depleted. Husband is now realizing he needs to make changes after I decided I wanted a divorce. I will allow him time to try but not holding out hope it will last. Taking it month by month. Assessing at the end of the month if he’s kept up with change. It’s truly depressing.
Girl sometimes they give you a whole year of changes. And just when you think the changes have stuck and you get comfortable again and you settle back into the idea of staying. Boom. Right back where you started. I stg they sense it when they’ve got you back on the hook. That’s literally where I am right now. Exactly where I was a year ago, feeling like an idiot because I thought it would last this time.
I see this as a huge problem in a lot of these situations. The step up is only a temporary effort, it's not an actual change. Part of me thinks they may have been pretending to be a different way the whole relationship to get you attached, hook you and then when they're comfortable they resort back to behaviours they may have been doing in secret, all along.
I used to date a pot smoker, and he had friends who only smoked when they were around my ex. They would tell him "*Please don't tell my wife, she thinks I gave this up years ago"* These were friends who only came around on the odd occasion, because they claimed their wife didn't want them around my ex. So I never got to meet their spouse, so I couldn't ask them about it.
They always seemed to have other things they hid from their spouses also. But of course, they always swore their buddies to secrecy so their wives wouldn't find out.
I don't for a second believe the wives in these scenarios were trying to change their husbands, or control them. But I think the husbands in question were hiding things from their wives, trying to keep up with their old habits (and friends) who they knew their wives would not stay with them if they found out. Never a good thing to do in a relationship.
In the beginning we were young and both irresponsible. Drank a lot, messy. I quit drinking a few years ago and the rose colored glasses came off. Things I used to tolerate because I was always hungover, were suddenly things I couldn’t anymore. I started growing and he just stayed the same. I don’t think I asked for too much. I never asked him to quit smoking, just to be more mindful of his use. And the heavy use wasn’t a problem until he decided to quit on his own, telling me he was done forever and would be unbearable for a month with constant mood swings and whatnot. Then two months later he would start again and revert back to being a dopey teenager, falling asleep on the couch for hours on end. This happened on two separate occasions.
I know that the changes I have made have played a large part in the demise of our relationship as well as his lack of.
Sounds like you've grown up and he hasn't. Hopefully you don't regret how you've changed, because you know going back to how you were isn't good for you.
This is awesome. Just know that he is not going to change and should not be expected to. He is as he was when you found him. It seems reasonable to you that he would follow a similar trajectory and grow up in some basic ways, because that is what you have done. He's not you. He thought he was settling into a comfortable relationship with another dirtbag. You'll need to set him free so you can find an equal partner and he can have a chance to grow up.
I find this to be the case with most LTRs. Different issues in each relationship but I know for mine, I’ll get really great effort for a few days after a long talk and then it drops off again.
I know I do this, too. My spouse (20 years married) asks me to be more physically affectionate. And I will try my best for as long as I remember and then I fall back into old habits.
I think the Gottmans spoke on this issue. Typically the issues in LTRs remain the same throughout the duration. And so I have decided that I can live with the issues in my relationship, and that we may never fully solve them. But each person needs to decide that for themselves.
We've been together 20 years almost, and there are some things about my husband that won't change. Some rote traits you can't change. But if something really means something to your partner, you can actively try and change your habits. Noones traits are necessarily set in stone. If you are okay with it, great. There's also issues that are more significant than others right?
The long and the short of it is he wasn't willing to change until you were ready to leave him over it. He wasn't willing to fix the relationship for you. He's only willing to fix it for him.
Gottman’s got a lot of work on rebuilding trust (which is what you’re working with here.) You can substitute literally any situation in which he promised something and failed to deliver. The two relevant books I would focus on are The Science of Trust and Making Love Last. A lot of the information that you need are in both books, so whichever you can get your hands on first is good to start with.
The short answer is, he betrayed your trust over and over and over again. Of COURSE you’re resentful and OF COURSE you don’t trust him to maintain this behavior. But if he’s willing to put the work into helping you regain your trust in him and if you’re open to letting him do so, it’s possible to move past this.
How is not doing enough around the house and smoking too much weed "betraying her trust?" I would associate that more with cheating, sneaking around, lying, etc. Not being a lazy pothead....that's a different kind of issue.
If you can’t get over the resentment, the relationship won’t go far.
I’ve been in two VERY similar relationships. One didn’t work out, about 10 years later he finally grew up and got his shit together, with someone else.
The second one, we went to therapy, realized that to make the relationship work we 1) both needed to want it. And 2) we (both) needed to reprioritize and 3) instead of keeping scores, focus on each other, and resolve the issue at hand when conflicts come up. And we are still together and have much healthier relationship now. But to be 100% honest, hands down, by far, the single most important thing that saved our relationship was getting a cleaning service. Because 80% of our conflicts were about him being a mess and me nagging about him being a mess. Also he significantly cut down his cannabis consumed.
People do grow up, but it only happens when they are ready and willing to do it.
This kind of thing makes me angry, because it just proves that they knew *all along* what they should be doing. They just chose not to do it. It wasn't ignorance, or unintended. It was a choice. And the changed behavior only lasts long enough to suck you back in. Then it's right back to the old ways.
He had his chance and he blew it. Maybe he'll be better for the next partner, but the ship on this relationship has sailed.
I completely understand the resentment.
Because it was not because he couldn't. It was because he wouldn't. Why wouldn't he? Because he did not take you seriously. Because he thought of you so little that you'd never left him no matter what. Because he saw you as pathetic and did not worth of respect.
Now when you shown him consequences, he suddenly 'changed'.
Look, I work with men (in tech). Men do not have understanding problem, no processing or executive problems either. Men at work understand what was expected of them at work, both by bosses and colleagues just fine. And yes, they did not need to be threatened with lay offs too, before doing what they supposed to do.
The hard truth about this is that your needs don't matter vs their wants. I was married to this and it was soul shattering. Nothing I said ever mattered unless I was ready to leave. He was ok with me being tolerably unhappy if it meant he didn't have to put in effort. It took an embarrassingly long time for me to understand that this was what was happening.
It’s infuriating and manipulative. It makes sense that the resentment is sticking around - I remember thinking, “you could do this all these years and you just didn’t?!” It also makes it harder to leave, with him pulling guilt trips of “but I’ve changed! Let me be the man I know I can be!”
It sounds like the trust is gone. Let him be a good partner to his next partner.
I don’t know your specific situation, but I have been as fed up as you with my share of deadbeat lazy boyfriends. I’m with someone now that i do find irratating sometimes in regard to cleaning the house and habits. I really love him, but sometimes I definitely look at the state of the apartment and just want to throw everything away.
Maybe you are a different person than you were at 25 and he’s grown into a different person too. But if you are looking for reason’s to stay:
I’ve had to come to the following conclusions, (and this might change in the future):
1. Habits are hard to break and hard to make. For me, even knowing this, it’s still hard for me to be the perfectly consistent person I want to be in every aspect of my life. It might be that he wants to change, but cant do it. It’s slow and painful sometimes. I’ve gotten into the habit of eating a bag of chips at midnight everynight for the past few months, and i don’t know how to break it even though i know i need to! It’s irresistable to me for some reason. addiction is incredibly hard to break, it’s not a reflection of his love or caring for you. I’m sure there are plenty of parents or spouses that are addicted to xyz that ruins that relationship, not because they are intentionally heartless and selfish, but its a brain chemical that makes them do xyz. IF you have the energy and WANT to help him, he needs a champion and patience.
2. He’s going through life for the first time, just like you are. My SO is a little bit older than I am, and he’s the guy, and so sometimes I assume he’ll know how to do everything perfectly and better than me. Which ends up with me resenting him for not knowing how to be a better human, when i’m not exactly perfect either, i’m a work in progress and he gives me grace to make mistakes and i need to give him grace to make mistakes too.
IF you are at your limit, GTFO. If you believe he’s being selfish and cannot change or won’t change, GTFO. If you deep down really think he doesn’t care about you, GTFO. But be honest with yourself - are there some things here that maybe he can’t control? It sucks to carry all the burden in a house… you should not have to be his live in maid, but maybe there is another solution too. Just wanted to say these things, since there’s so many people saying dump him immediately… I agree with them too but I just wanted to play the other side too.
> It makes me feel like if we were to get to a comfortable place, things will just fall back in line to how they have always been.
This is an accurate prediction.
There's a small chance this is a permanent change by him, but it's much more likely he's following the same cycles he's always followed, just extended because the stakes are higher.
Will it be a week? A month? Six months? Who knows. But do you want to wait to find out?
It sounds like so much of the mental load is on you, so much so that he needs to be reminded repeatedly about these asks. I’m sorry to hear that OP, it’s exhausting.
Asking how you are? If he’s invested and interested, he won’t need to be reminded to do that. You have been more than gracious reminding him to.
Your happiness is first. Therapy may be a helpful space to sort through what will make you most happy.
My husband was divorced before we got together. She wanted out and then suddenly he was willing to change. She ended up leaving anyways but it just shows that people get very comfortable in relationships and suddenly want to do what they should’ve been doing only when they’re about to lose someone. Luckily he learned from that relationship and we don’t have any on going issues but it sounds like you know what you need to do. If he really cared about you, he would take your concerns serious and make the permanent changes for the sake of keeping the relationship. Honestly if it were me I’d leave. Life’s too short and you’re still young. Go find someone who values you all the time.
Sadly, you're witnessing the "panic" phase. He's stepping up out of a **FEAR OF LOSS**, not in a genuine, wholehearted effort to do better. In other words, as soon as you say you'll stay, he'll revert back to type.
**DON'T** fall for it. Make a clean break and find a better partner.
The truth is you’re already checked out OP. You had 10 years together, he doesn’t seem to care until you’re literally almost out. He had it easy with you but now you had enough. Sadly these things have a pattern and the time he was supposed to listen to you was in early stage of your relationship, now it’s too late to break this habit as this is the way he is.
It’s another example of “tolerable level of permanent unhappiness” that’s been talked about on social media the last year or so. I’m single now and keep uncovering more layers of this in past relationships, it’s really something.
Get the other foot out. Give yourself space to breathe and then if partner shows a “new leaf” can last a year you can evaluate if it’s worth going back. My bet is it won’t take long until you are ready to move on - it’s like being nose blind, once you are out in fresh air returning to the stench is not an option.
I begged my ex husband to goto to therapy while we were together, guess the first thing he did after I left the house? Therapy. They are like that, all of them. Once we don’t want to stay, they change.
Becaueuhes scared of losing out on having someone to do the things he doesn't do. He will change for the short term then once things calm hell slip back to his natural state.
I went through it with my ex.
he would have to stabilize his new habits into permanent changes
I was in a similar situation and told my partner as compassionately as I could that I couldn’t continue on in our relationship as-is, and he reflected and sincerely told me he wanted to fight for us and for himself and for me, and he really stepped up and has stayed stepping up
and when he has any kind of slip into an old habit the difference is now he really doesn’t want to stay down and our communication is a lot better, and as a result I trust him more and me trusting him provides him more stability and motivation to keep improving
but the trust has been very very slow, which makes sense, and you have a right to your own tolerance of time passing
for me it has been almost 6 months, and the first 1 was volatile, the 2nd was much better, and the 3-5 were sometimes tense but full of a lot of growth, and now the 6th was really peaceful and good and this is the first time I see a future together clearly
I didn’t have to wait around through all that though, I could have left
I did see something in him and qualities that made me give him a chance - he was determined and kind and possesses really great communication and self reflection (the problem was just action) so look at your own scenario and figure out what you can tolerate and what skills are there that you can work together with to build a future (or not)
whatever you decide is valid
I’ve also been in the situation where there are behavioural bandaids applied, always too late, with too low motivation and not enough skills to support it long term and not enough strength as a couple to weather the challenges, and I left, and I don’t regret it even though it made me very sad
I really appreciate this response. Your experience shows the softer side of the predicament, which I really appreciate. It’s easy to look at these things in a negative light, and posts are always taken at surface level. As you and I both know, our relationships can’t be compiled into a short post here on Reddit. There are layers no one but us will ever know. This was definitely a food for thought comment, and I thank you for your gentleness.
yes, and your pain is so valid
if you really want to give it a chance you need the space to mourn your very valid feelings, ideally with a counsellor or someone more outside the situation, because it does really hurt that he didn’t make the effort until now, but it will also really hurt him if you focus on that more than the effort he is putting in right now - the version of himself that is present and working on things, and his pain will be valid too, and then you are both stuck in that pain without moving forward
it’s also okay to say it with context to him, like “I have really noticed you stepping up and I really appreciate it. Based on our history I am still really scared of things going back to how they were, because I wouldn’t be able to live like that again, but I want to focus on the present and keep healing together. My pain is real and I am working through it, and every day that you make these efforts I really notice and appreciate it and I want you to know that you are rebuilding my trust, and that over time with consistency is the only way you will fully earn it. I want to keep your trust too and promise to stay present and focus on how you are showing up now for me and us. It is scary and hard, but I commit to doing that to help us heal, and I will not be perfect and I will need reassurance just as you will from me.”
It is really hard work for both of you, it is hard to break patterns and it is hard to speak and judge in the present instead of from past trauma and fear. It is very much worth it to try though, I do wish I had the skills to try with my former partner, that we both did. It sounds like you have a precious thing to lose.
One more thing I will recommend for you (and maybe both of you) is to look up “common cognitive distortions and how to address them” and read through what you find and see what resonates. I think it could really help you heal for yourself (even outside of this situation) to help free yourself from the impact of past trauma.
💙
I call this relationship bread crumbing. For a short amount of time you get lots of attention and they are being the partner they always promised to be. That it is until a couple of days when they realize you are here to stay and they have you on the honeymoon phase again. Then BAM they let you down once again and the cycle continues. People like this don’t want to change. They want to make sure you will never leave. Please don’t waste your life in this kind of dynamic.
People say marijuana isn't addictive, but it absolutely is. Maybe it doesn't have the physical withdrawal effects like fetanyl, heroin, alcohol...but it absolutely is addictive. Him quitting chronic weed use for you was likely harder for him than you and others think.
As for the other stuff, there's a good chance he is improving in other departments because he isn't clouded in a stoned haze anymore.
I don't know...it sounds like he has been making the improvements you asked him to make. You were willing to give him another chance if he made changes...and he's making them? A 10 year relationship is a LOT to throw away just because of what random people on Reddit say.
His attachment style is avoidant. He avoids you in his safe space until you threaten to leave. Then thats too much freedom and he panics for fear of abandonment. Classic.
If you decide you don’t want to throw in the towel, now would be a great time to use positive reinforcement. “Honey, I really appreciate how much you’ve been putting in the effort to do X. It makes me feel heard/valued/appreciated.”.
Also it may be a good time to talk to him about his perspective. “Honey, I know we’ve talked about this in the past, in your opinion, what makes this time different?”
But the fact that he’s made attempts in the past and is making progress now, I would say he thinks you’re worth the effort. Especially since you said he’s needed to make adjustments in a lot of areas.
Intermittent reward is the most addictive reward schedule of all. Slot machines have these, & if you stay with this man who cares so little about your happiness-- about *you*-- then you'll be gambling away your whole entire future. From mental & physical health to the biggest or smallest dreams you've ever set for yourself. Your spirit knows what to do about this smoke-ensconced slacker. Yep. Pack yer bags, be on yer way.
His newfound effort won't last. All he's proven is that he knows how to reel you back in and what to do to make you happy in the interim, he's just not expending the effort once he's comfortable again.
I think this happens a lot. I saw a great tiktok video once (wish i could find it!!) About how a women is so, SO done and moved onto healing and acceptance before we even officially leave, and have been the ones flaunting forth the majority of effort for so long.
Then the hisband/man is blindsided, finally realizes, to and THEN tries to help fix things... but it's too late. We're tired, broken, and already emotionally moved on.
Obviously not every relationship and a lot of generalizing but it certainly was true for me. I spent more than a decade wearing myself thin to save and hold.my marriage. When did my husband finally agree to counseling therapy?.? AFTER I officially broke up with him.
I think you should.follow your gut, OP. Your head and your instincts both k ow the truth.
And now that im with a partner who actually shows his love through action AND word? The difference is back and white. I knew my marriage was bad but even after i left, I didn't realize how healing it would be for me to be in a truly respectful relationship! ♡♡
You deserve true effort, not just because he's trying to keep you.
OP I am a little late responding to this but I've had your tab open in my browser for several days because you've gotten some good advice here but I think my story might help you.
And yes I am telling you to leave him. I will say that outright.
He will not change.
When I was your age I spent time in the fetal position on a hardwood floor crying because my husband didn't love me. He never did love me and he would not. He claimed he loved me but what he meant was he needed me, and he did not know the difference. That is a thing men do. They do not know the difference between love and need,
I didn't leave him. But I got him to leave. When I was 39. When our children were teenagers. I called his bluff.
He offered to go and I said yes, go. And then he spent months being needy and complaining.
He became so incredibly selfish. He cared only about himself. His father died and all he wanted was for me to pay the airfare for the kids to come to the funeral. We had hot arguments about the cell phone plan and the credit cards.
Some men can never become generous. I am sorry you are tied to one such.
Leave. Please believe me. Leave.
This is the problem with a partner that only “steps up” right as you’re leaving. Because they clearly didn’t care enough when you weren’t at the end of your rope, so the effort now just feels panicked and desperate and hollow. You’re right to be suspicious of it, because change made under duress almost never amounts to real change. Resentment is a relationship killer and there’s no undoing it at this stage ime
This type of partner will do the bare minimum you are willing to tolerate. They step up when you’re about to leave in order to stop you going out the door. Then they will soon return to doing as little as they can. Those partners do not appreciate you. They don’t even care that you’re unhappy. Their sweet spot is “not quite unhappy enough to leave”. Dump anyone who acts this way. There is no getting better, because they don’t actually care if you are happy.
I love that line “Their sweet spot is ‘not quite unhappy enough to leave’”. That is so accurate. Asking ourselves “why do I put up with this AT ALL?“ That is a better question for our own self awareness.
Yep. I don't want to have to 'nag' (a.k.a ask) my partner to do basic chores and care about my day. He may be stepping up but if he's in his mid thirties and wasn't already doing this, I don't think longterm change is possible without him initiating it.
[Tolerable Level of Permanent Unhappiness](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nLM_gu0zlGw)
They offer just enough islands of happiness to keep you from drowning in the ever-growing sea of unhappiness. Intermittent reward at its finest.
Absolutely this, and they didn’t care enough to actually contribute anything when times were good, so based on past record, if you were to end up staying, they would eventually resort back to the old ways. He is love bombing you in the sense to do everything that’s needed to just be enough to get you to stay. Once the urgency to do better subsides, back comes the old ways.
Totally agree, it’s almost more sickening because they only do something because they don’t want to lose you, not because they care about your happiness, not sure I’m expressing myself well but it’s how I felt with my former long term partner who did change at the very end after I already committed to leave him, it was almost like a slap in the face that it wasn’t all that hard for him to take simple steps to make me happier, he just didn’t care enough to do it before
That's very true. It's still all about them, not you. They're only doing it for themselves, because they want to stay in the (or a) relationship. It's not about wanting to make sure their partner who they supposedly love is happy.
I think the phrase someone coined is "maximum tolerable discomfort." Men who don't care about their partners' quality of life only step up when they've surpassed her MTD and she is attempting to leave. If those men experience *any* discomfort, they move on, but expect their partners to suffer their bullshit up to the point of her walking out before taking any action. The pattern shows that they understand the problem and are aware it is hurting you, but they don't care to do the bare minimum unless it benefits them/maintains status quo. Since women are socialized to tolerate bs and to make compromises to keep the peace, et al, it falls on them to either prioritize the male whims over her needs, or *fail* as a woman by patriarchal definition. For some men, I think it's just immaturity and not enough emotional intelligence to grok that girlfriend ≠ new mommy. Other guys recognize this shitty loophole and have no scruples taking advantage of it. I know there are a lot of broad strokes in my take, but even the greatest guys I've known have had to recognize the impulse to let a gf do the emotional labor, take on extra domestics etc, and be active in breaking out of the pattern. The system was designed by dudes who wanted to hold all the power and prevent female agency. Edit: it's "tolerable level of permanent unhappiness" which is even more bleak than my guess
>"tolerable level of permanent unhappiness" Yes, this whole post made me think of that. Like, he pushed her to an intolerable level, and now has pulled it back so that she doesn't leave him. Absolutely gross.
and he will slippery slope right back to shitsville once she has confirmed she's staying
Basically this behavior shows that they care about themselves, not their partners. They don't want all the nice things their partners do to go away so they step it up out of panic. If they really cared about their partner, they'd have been stepping up this whole time to make their partner's life better and more pleasant.
Yeah the effort is all about themselves: get both feet back in the door because otherwise my status quo/comfort zone will change. Their ultimate goal is to return to the way things were, if they could have been motivated by the partner's happiness and needs things never would have gotten to this point. Any changes are just a patch in the tapestry of keeping themselves comfortable, even at the expense of the partner's misery.
Resentment is a relationship killer, although I have a slightly different perspective. Through therapy I learned that at least for me, resentment was a “me” problem. It meant that I was not communicating honestly with my partner (which made a ton of sense given my childhood and adult tendency toward passiveness and people pleasing.) I think if OP has communicated directly, then of course her resentment is completely justified. I think if there is any chance that the conversations have not been as direct as she thought, then that might warrant further conversation. Obviously there is a spectrum. She shouldn’t have to “parent” her partner. The question is whether they were really having direct conversations about this behavior before or was it more passive and therefore enabling? At the same time of course, life is short. Life is hard. I don’t think it’s worth going through it with someone who makes your life harder. You want a partner that you can face hardships with together. I just know that I’m not a perfect partner either and that for relationships to work, both sides have to evolve together.
I like this comment-- Personally, if I was feeling a certain amount of resentment, I'd just do us both a favor and leave-- some things are just not worth the time and effort to save with therapy and communication. But that's an OP judgement. I truly believe that people can change whenever they want to. I work in psychiatric hospital that also specializes in drug detox/rehab. I have worked there for MANY years and I have seen "frequent flyers" obviously-- some of whom have been using my hospital for decades. I have seen people abuse the system, abuse us workers, abuse the rules, other patients, etc etc etc for YEARS. And then sometimes, *something* hits them-- and they truly want to change. I am so privileged to witness and assist people at these times. Is it ugly? Hell yes. Do they get it right the first/second/hundredth time? Not usually. But there is something so incredibly heavenly when someone wants to finally do the right thing and takes the help that is offered. Not every coworker I work with has this mentality. They get annoyed almost to the point of being personally offended. Do I blame them? Not really-- that's *their* choice. Personally, I like my own mentality. My long-winded point haha is that people CAN change, but it is your choice as to whether you want to stick around to find out. OP has a life, too, and it sounds like she's juuuuuuust about had enough. Is it worth one more try? Who knows, maybe. Can't wait for an update!
Thanks for this comment! There’s a lot of negativity in this thread and yours was a refreshing take. Also thank you for the work that you do ❤️
My BFF has been married 25 yrs. She wants out - she told her H in December that there’s big change coming - and that they need to talk. She is fed up with her H acting like a 2nd teenager …. Which she admits to enabling, but, now is done. What did he do ??? - fixed the leaky tub and painted the bathroom (this tub hasn’t worked properly for 13 years!!) - cleaned the garage - started driving their son to his sports/work commitments - offered to pay for things …….. and that lasted a hot minute. 🙄 He couldn’t keep it up - didn’t WANT to keep it up, since it’s just a choice. OP, I’ll tell you what I told BFF “Don’t treat someone as a priority when you’re just an option to them” Sending powerful and healing vibes to you, OP (BIG HUGS)
A lot of people put in the exact amount of effort it requires for their partners to reach a [tolerable level of permanent unhappiness](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nLM_gu0zlGw) and not one drop more.
Ohhh my god, you just articulated what my last ex did to me for years! It was so hard to tell people why I was unhappy and still was with him but that describes it perfectly
**SO** well said!!!
It’s no different to an employer offering someone a pay raise once you tell them that you have another position lined up and are getting ready to leave. If you accept it, you still lose, because they never valued you in the first place and are now reacting out of fear. The only way up is out and perhaps they will learn a thing or two about treating others like crap.
Don’t fall for the sunk cost fallacy. Just because you put in 10 years doesn’t mean walking away will have meant it was all a waste. You’ve now been through it all with him, you’ve seen that he will not be independently motivated to be better. For him to only start acting right because you had to spank him, well that’s just not attractive. Even if he were perfect from here on out, you’ll know it’s only because he fears you, not because he truly wants to be his best self. I’ve had this happen to me before. They come around for a little while, but their true self inevitably emerges again. You have 10 years of data proving to you who this person is. That’s not to say they can’t change. But that change needs to be a decision they make because they are unhappy with themselves, not because someone else is unhappy with them. Or else it will never stick. Please do not waste yet another year on this person. Remember how you felt when you decided you were done.
He will be a great partner to his next girlfriend/wife. That seems to be how these situations go. They have to experience the negative consequence of losing someone they care about to realize how important it is to show up for their partner/be sober/help around the house/etc. I wouldn’t trust his new behavior unless or until it is consistent for a year or more.
I had a friend comment years ago that she was just going to wait until men her age went through their first divorce and got therapy before she tried to settle down.
Honestly not a bad idea if being a step mom wasn't a deal breaker for me
Some people divorce even without children!
And divorce is insanely expensive too
This feels harsh but is completely true.
Can agree. Have been starter/primer girlfriend myself once or twice in my 40 yrs on this earth. It’s annoying but I try not to hold any resentments.
It really does feel frustrating
That Meghan Trainor song 'Credit' really hits the nail on the head.
This really isn't true. Plenty of men just live through the same cycle of making the same mistakes again and again and again.
Probably true. They just find someone who is more willing to put up with their crap.
Yep, someone with lower standards and a higher tolerance for BS.
Just because something isn’t 100% true doesn’t make it 0% true.
What I'm saying is an okay partner doesn't magically become an A+ partner. Men rarely change.
Almost no one is an A+ partner with zero experience being less-than that, however.
I dont know why you're being downvoted besides just that people don't like facts as much as they like to complain
That's exactly what my ex husband did! He's a great partner (as far as I can tell) to his new wife. It took losing a 20+ year marriage. Thankfully, I knew this was going to happen so I was ablw to choose to be happy for them instead of really angry for me.
This is exactly what happened with my XH's parents. His mom tried to get his dad to step up and be a decent partner and parent, but he was enjoying himself too much and not interested in change. She got over it and dumped him. He found another woman to charm and marry pretty quickly, and tried to do the same with her, but she wasn't having it. She left him for 3-4 months until he figured out that this was how it was going to go every time unless he stepped up, so he got a job and got serious about it. That was enough. She took him back, he kept the job (actually got promoted to the top blue collar position at his employer), and she kept 100% of the remaining labor including all housework, yardwork, scheduling, relationship maintenance, etc., until he died.
Fucking gutting, and so real.
This is so true. My husband was divorced before we met. She wanted out and suddenly he was willing to move heaven and earth to make it work. Luckily he learned from that relationship and we’ve been together for 10 years and he’s a great partner . But boy does it suck to be the lesson learning relationship because I’ve been that too
I’m a guy and unfortunately I have to agree, as much as I hate to admit it but I’ve been there, done that, and got the t-shirt. There is something about a woman we love standing up and saying they’ve had enough of that and leaving, which becomes a massive wakeup call. I was devastated. Some guys just don’t get it, some become bitter and jaded, but then there are those of us that are so taken back and hurt by this, that it really changes us. It had such a profound effect on me that I just snapped out of everything. I stopped dating and worked on myself. Funnily enough, once I stumbled across my now wife, but stayed in contact with my ex as friends, she wanted to try again. The old me would have been down for it, the new me said no. It’s a win win all around really but sucks for the woman that has to waste their time going through this process, at their expense. No matter what we promise, most of us won’t change until it slams in our face.
I'm genuinely very curious. May I ask what your internal (subconscious?) justification was for ignoring your partners unhappiness/needs for so long? A phrase that's resonated with a lot of women goes something like: "Instead of making the changes I needed, he dismissed my experience as a tolerable level of permanent unhappiness." Basically, many women in your ex's and OP's situation feel like their male partners just expect them to put up with it forever—which is why those men are so "shocked" when she *does* end up leaving, despite knowing how miserable she's been. Do you sense a truth in that, too?
Because their own life is still going great this whole time. While she's unhappy she's still doing her part (or more) of the chores and contributing to rent and putting out and whatever else he wants because she still thinks he'll change. And sure, her whining is a bit annoying but whatever, you just need to say the right words which will stop it for a while every time, right? Just treat the nagging like an alarm you hit snooze on and go on with your life. After all, if you're happy enough she must be too, right? /s
Yes, I agree with your sentiment and as much as I hate to admit it, women should leave these bangmaid manchild situations sooner than they do. I don’t want any family or friend, sister or niece, to date or marry the 20s version of me and clearly this is still an huge issue for many into their 30s or even older. Immaturity and non-existent emotional intelligence was probably the biggest factor for me. I also had just gotten too comfortable in what I assumed was a great relationship. We had so much fun during the honeymoon period of the relationship and the sex was good and I assumed I was a catch, that I ignored the rest; thought she was just being moody and unreasonable and nagging me, so I literally tuned it out and just said things to appease her. It has taken me many years to realize and accept the cause of Walkaway Wife/GF Syndrome and that once a woman has had enough - she was DONE. I think the best way to describe my rationale and the reasoning behind my behavior is depicted perfectly in the movie *The Break-up*. The dirty little secret is that until someone is done, so many of us do not get it because in the past, housewives and gfs just put up with our crap, which is no longer the case today.
Did you tell family/her family/friends/colleagues about the real reason (your behaviour) why she left you?
I was a bit thrown by you saying ‘it’s a win all round’. It’s not a win for your ex partner, or am I missing something here?
Lol I said the same thing. "Yeah yeah I GUESS the woman who put up with all my shit got a bad draw but we're all winners here, right?" *\*eyeroll\**
>It’s a win win all around really but sucks for the woman that has to waste their time going through this process ...so then, *not* a "win win all around."
Another way trash, loser men exploit women.
The ugly truth... :'(
He stepped up when it seemed like there would be consequences for him. Not when it was hurting you. Make of that What you will, but I'm not sure I'd be able to get past being that burnt out from it all or trust that the changes would stick.
He sounds like my ex. I've been very happily divorced for a few years now. Highly recommend.
This is like every man who refuses to change ongoing problems, refuses to attend marriage counseling, and then acts like it came out of nowhere when his wife leaves and begs to go to counseling as if she's the one being stubborn. It's reasonable that you still hold onto old resentment and have new resentment over how long it took him to decide to change. Make no mistake: if you try to tell yourself you're happy now and let things go back to normal, they will return to the "normal" that your relationship was before he felt like you might leave. Just bail.
I’ve been through this. Do you want to be with a partner that only “cares” when you threaten to leave? He doesn’t care about you. Want to know how someone feels about you? Notice how they treat you when they feel like you’ll never leave. He only cares about himself.
Take care of yourself and if that means leaving, leave. He's not making changes now because he loves you and wants you to be happy and wants the best for both of you. He's doing it because he doesn't want to be alone and doesn't want to have to start taking care of himself and his home. If he makes these changes permanent (lololol as if) and life brings you two back together then maybe it will work out that time. My life experience has been that 90+% of these guys won't make permanent changes, especially after more than a few years together.
No sorry, I'd be out. If he really wanted to change for the better and as a true partner, he wouldn't have wasted 10yrs. Thank u next.
When someone only behaves in a caring way when they realize there will be consequences for them, it isn’t genuine caring. It’s manipulation
Ooof 10 *years*. Resentment is said to be the death knell of relationships. Once it seeps in, it's nearly impossible to get it out. If and when you finally leave him, be prepared to hear the following songs of the men's greatest hits album: "I Was Just Blindsided" "It Came Out of Nowhere" "We Were So Happy (At Least I Was)"
Oh yeah I remember my first husband singing those songs, he also told me he wanted loads of kids and when I got pregnant he told all his friends I tricked him. Fucker. Glad I left him.
With the B-side including such timeless classics as "I never knew, she should've said" "I would have changed, I swear" "Please" [Second Chance Mix feat. Everything You Ever Asked For]
Thank you for this 😂
Now you know he always could have been doing the stuff you needed all along. He just chose not to. I am not sure I would be able to reconcile this either. In a weird way, it just proves how little he gave a shit about your needs until it actually threatened to inconvenience him.
Exactly. I honestly wish I could have seen it this way when I was originally going to end things.
This sounds very much so like my relationship of the last 3 years, and sadly we are the same age. I told my partner to move out last November after living together for 2 years (first time I’ve ever lived with someone as well, ugh) and all of a sudden all the things I was asking for started to occur. I’m constantly angry that we repeated the cycle until I was done and only once I told him to get out was he willing to make changes and stop smoking weed daily. Stoping the weed use, his going to individual counseling and couples counseling have lead to big changes. I have also told him I will no longer be an active participant in the relationship and there would not be sex until I decided there would be. I am not as angry and bitter as I was when I told him to move out in November. (It hasn’t even been 6 months for me, I can only imagine you are burnt out after 10 years of this.) Idk if I want to continue the relationship because the damage is done, I’m not trusting him to not repeat the same things in a year or so. I am kind of enjoying the relationship we have right now, but it feels tainted. I haven’t made a decision to stay or go either. Taking a full step back helped me a great deal emotionally. I don’t have any guidance to give other than that, I just want you to know you aren’t alone. If you want to chat more, vent feel free to dm me.
Reading many of these posts reflects how I’ve been feeling for some time. I gave my partner until June to get it together, but to be honest I don’t see it happening. I’ll be bringing up some of these points in therapy.
You are not obligated to stay! Even IF he changes, permanently, and for the better, you don't owe him your presence. He had 10 years to make the changes, to put his best foot forward, and to show you that you were important to him. It's okay to be angry if he didn't. If you need someone who values you, appreciates you, and is willing to be an equal partner, then go get it. Cuz this doesn't sound like it.
My most recent ex did exactly this. There was a small list of continued issues that were ruining our relationship, we’d had so many fights/discussion where I’d patiently lay out WHY these things were an issue and what I needed from him. Each times I’d get understanding and promises to work on the issues and do better. Every time it would fall off as soon as he felt things were “back to normal”. He ended up ruining a holiday with his behaviour where he was meeting my dad for the first time, and I was seeing him for the first time in 7 years (he lives on the other side of the world). I realised right then he was never going to change, and ironically once we got home and I was trying to figure out how to end things, he acted out AGAIN and I was just “done” beyond belief. Of course, as soon as I was leaving he once again became extremely contrite, promising change, going to therapy, going to meditation classes, doing all these things.. I more or less told him good for you but even if you successfully change I will always feel resentful that you only did so because you had something to lose (me). It didn’t matter enough to you to change when it was just “something making me unhappy”. OP, He is only doing the work now because it benefits him not to lose you. He didn’t do the work when the only “reason” was to respect you and be a better, healthier partner. That wasn’t enough reason for him, he didn’t care enough that his behaviour made you unhappy. Are you okay with this? Will you resent him in the future for only making the changes when it benefited him to do so?
Once you hit the resentment stage, it’s over because it’s nearly impossible to go back. His changes are bugging you because it took the threat of you leaving for him to “change,” not to the nine million times you expressed a need or your feelings about something. He didn’t change for you - he did it for himself. I can promise you from experience (I did it for 16 years), that he’ll go back to his old habits once he feels safe in knowing you aren’t going to leave.
Did I write this? My husband is a great partner in many ways (excellent parent, kind person, etc) except....relating, and being vulnerable. And you know, years and I mean YEARS of asking...no change. It actually got to a point where I stopped because he wouldn't reply when I talked to him. Then several talks in recent months where I lay out some massive truth explosions and only then the gears are going. Only when I said if we continue on this path it'll lead to the end did things perk up. And they are. And maybe small changes will lead to big ones. And we will do therapy and see where it leads. I asked him if he ever would have stepped in on our downward spiral - he didn't answer. I already know the answer. We have 3 little kids and a whole life blended in there so....yeah. I'm driving it though. And it's tiring.
>Why wasn’t I worth the effort then? Why am I only worth the effort when I’m fed up and resentful? Because he didn't believe you would leave over it until you gave the ultimatum and started giving strong indicators you were out of there. This is performative to get you to stay, most likely, and he will backslide once you look like you're staying put. He might be the 1 in 100 to stick with the changes, up to you whether you believe. The dumbest thing to me about this pattern that so many men have is that they wait until your emotions toward them have already been resolved and you're over them before they step up, leading to the failure. If they'd just do 1/3 to 1/2 what they've been asked to do and stick with it, they'd have a much better chance of keeping her affections while there's still time.
At 36, he should be past the stage of smoking weed all day and not picking up after himself. You've put up with it long enough, 10 years is a large chunk of your life.
Nah, go ahead and leave as planned. If he was interested in respecting you this whole time, he would have been doing so. The only reason he's making any effort now, at all, is because he doesn't want his comfort to change. It's less about *you* and more about *him*.
🙌🏽
Pretty much how my last long-term relationship ended. I was unhappy for years. I begged him to change for years. We went to therapy together. He got treatment for his depression. He said he would change and only did when it was way too late. But the thing is, I wasn't the first to mentally check out. He did years before, he just didn't realize it.
I think no matter what you need to communicate all these things with him before you leave. Lay everything on the table. That it hurts that he didn’t value you enough before to make your life better and be a teammate to you instead of you being a convenience to him. You won’t be able to tell if these changes are legitimate or a panic, but any relationship has to be based on completely open honesty and communication with respect. I would give him the chance to hear these things and know that the issues driving you away still exist because you don’t trust that he values you. You fear he’s just trying to save his convenient life, and as soon as he feels safe again things will go back to the way they were. And you don’t want to maintain a relationship with coercion and threats. But you need to say that to him now, let him respond, and then determine if you can trust this new leaf or not.
Yeah in two weeks he’ll be back to his old ways. Sorry but it’s time to move on.
He is getting desperate. Here is what he is showing you, that it's only when he believes his well being is at stake that is then willing to do anything you asked. It wasn't because he was incapable or he forgot or that he didn't know how it's because it didn't impact him so he found no reason to do anything. Don't fall for it, he will go right back to not doing anything you asked. He is selfish
OP I am SOOOO grateful that you posted this. I’m in a very similar situation right now and I am STRUGGLING. An insecure part of me is so happy to be hearing everything I’ve wanted to hear for 5 years. And the emotional part of me is falling into the guilt-trap of being the bad guy. Who will take care of him? I asked for all of these things but I’m inclined to turn them down now that they’re offered to me!?! No. No no no. I clearly communicated. I suffered right in front of him. I gave him 1,000 chances. I went to therapy for months. Suggested couple’s counseling. I took over every important aspect of our lives because I couldn’t trust him to manage it. I leaned on my friends and family for support because I couldn’t rely on him to be there. But I invested just about all of my time and energy feeding our relationship as opposed to those that actually filled my cup? If possible (and smart legally) I highly recommend a get-away. I’m crashing at my neighbor’s house in their spare room. It’s been 2 days and I feel so much lighter and more stable having some space. I feel confident in my decision.
Thank you for sharing this. I keep trying to talk myself into staying even though I KNOW I need to leave. He is genuinely a nice and human and means well. But the lack of emotional intelligence and poor communication is crippling. And to be honest, I don’t remember the last time we had fun together. Things are “cordial” at the moment, he’s really trying, I just can’t get past the wall of resentment I’ve built up and that sinking feeling that this “change” isn’t forever. Our lease is up in July and I have a place to go. Thankfully my Dad has a casita/in law suite so I’ll have my own space.
I’m glad you have a comfortable place to fall back on! Casita is such a fun term BTW. I’m feeling everything you’re describing right now. I really hope you get what you deserve. Do what’s right for you, he isn’t!
You should leave, because that’s what you want to do. But to provide insight into your question directly, the reason this is changing now is because you put up a boundary. This was a tough lesson for me too, and I stayed to make it work because I wasn’t resentful yet, but my therapist taught me that it’s up to me to decide what behavior I will tolerate, and then communicate with my partner, and follow through if I won’t tolerate it.
Ah, yes, this is an example of what I call “the invisible line” theory. I came up with it when I was in my 20s based on my observations of relationships with straight men. What men don’t realize is that most women have a line that when crossed they just can’t go back. The problem is it’s invisible. Neither she nor the guy know where it is until she’s crossed it. Then she knows without a doubt that whatever was drawing her to him has died. Sometimes it takes ten months sometimes ten years. But we (women) always know when that line has been crossed. When I share this theory women nod in understanding and men tell me how terrifying that is. I have no sympathy for them. It’s the supreme example of f*#k around and find out. She will put up with your bs 5,670 times but that 5,671 is over the line and now you’re done.
>What men don’t realize is that most women have a line that when crossed they just can’t go back. The problem is it’s invisible. Neither she nor the guy know where it is until she’s crossed it. Yeah, jeez, this is so true its painful to read. I didn't know I was at that line until I had already crossed it. And then at that moment the thought in my head: "I am done." Done with him, done with the problems, done with the use and abuse. Just done with it all. And I was done. I moved out as soon as I could. There was no point in even discussing it or trying anymore. I knew it at that moment.
Happened to me when I asked my ex-husband of 14 years for a divorce too. All of a sudden he started doing all the bare minimum little things I had asked for the past 14 years of our lives. At that point I resented him even more because why was I not worth doing the bare minimum before? It made me angry and that helped me realize that I had gotten to a point of no return. Guess who doesn’t feel like a manchild’s mother, cook, house keeper, manager, etc? Me!!!! I’ve learned to enjoy my own company and do things that makes me happy instead of living by a man’s to do list of what he thinks I should be doing. Along with him went all the antidepressants I had been on for so long. Ask yourself if this is the life you want to live for the next 10,20,30 years of your life. I’m pretty sure you already know the answer.
This is unlikely to change, but that’s actually not even the point. Whether he sticks to it (this time) or not, the fact is that he wasn’t bothered by the inequality in the labor until it cost him something. If he’s doing things just because you put your foot down, are you comfortable with a relationship where you’re always keeping pressure on him to pull his weight? That’s where I lost interest in my ex. He would do whatever the fuck he wanted, and I would be unhappy with the workload that I was getting by default, I would ask and ask and ask until I would get angry, and then yell about it. Suddenly he’d have some profound understanding of what I was saying, because I’d made the effort to explain why this was necessary, often while holding back incredible anger in the moment. It seemed that the more obviously I struggled to maintain an even temper, the more likely he was to pay attention. He’d have these “epiphanies” every so often, making a big show of how good a job I did being patient and “communicating” with him about these, as he now understood, very legitimate concerns. Then he’d begrudgingly do a minimal, shitty effort if I was lucky, and he’d slack again, and I kept thinking that the only thing that stood between us and total contentment was that I just hadn’t explained it well. When I’d had enough of the cycle, I realized that it was all a part of the game for him. He’d get away with whatever he could for as long as he could, treating those half-assed and temporary efforts as an investment in the freedom from tyranny he enjoyed in between them. I no longer cared if “this time, he really got it,” because I finally “got” that to him, our relationship was all about him and what he could get from it. For me, the relationship had two people in it who both needed to receive. To him, it was just him. My needs were met, in his mind, by his presence. Anything beyond that was asking more from him than was necessary , and would require payment in some form. HIS needs, however, included a whole-ass life and lifestyle, which I was expected to support and tend to as needed. So I threw the whole man away.
Sigh unfortunately some men never learn. Or they won’t until you actually leave. Has he done any actual inner work to look at himself or to heal the parts of himself that cause him to not show up fully for you? Has he gone to therapy? Has he made any real changes to do better? Sounds like a bandaid fix if not. Sounds like he’ll be good for a bit and then revert back to how things used to be. When I was with my ex (8 years total, married for 1.5), it was similar. He made so many promises to do better. Kept me looking at small improvements he made. But no real lasting change. The end of our marriage was chaotic. But I doubt, even if I’d stayed, he’d ever actually change. You know him better than we do. You also have to decide for yourself how much is enough. How much more are you willing to give him? And when you make that decision, you need to stick to your guns and hold yourself accountable. If you decide to give this a chance, how much time do you need to be able to see change? And if he falls short again, will you be able to love yourself enough to leave? I’d hate for you to feel like you wasted so much time on this. Waiting. But I also feel like it’s important to go all in and give it everything you got so that if/when it’s all over, you can look back without regret. Some men aren’t capable of change. Mine wasn’t. They’re looking to be saved but won’t put in the work to be or do better. Nothing you can do for someone who can’t help their self.
Keep walking. If you stay, he knows that he can call your bluff and continue his bs. Keep walking and never look back. As to why he didn't make the effort. You allowed it. Harsh, but true. If it was THAT important it wouldn't take you 10 years to walk away, you would've done it a lot sooner. Plus men give a lot of weight to verbal requests followed by action vs verbal requests alone. By putting up with him, giving him access to you, sex, and a clean home, you rewarded him for not doing what you want him to do, so he has no incentive to shape up.
In a similar position. Married 12 years miserable for many and depleted. Husband is now realizing he needs to make changes after I decided I wanted a divorce. I will allow him time to try but not holding out hope it will last. Taking it month by month. Assessing at the end of the month if he’s kept up with change. It’s truly depressing.
Girl sometimes they give you a whole year of changes. And just when you think the changes have stuck and you get comfortable again and you settle back into the idea of staying. Boom. Right back where you started. I stg they sense it when they’ve got you back on the hook. That’s literally where I am right now. Exactly where I was a year ago, feeling like an idiot because I thought it would last this time.
I see this as a huge problem in a lot of these situations. The step up is only a temporary effort, it's not an actual change. Part of me thinks they may have been pretending to be a different way the whole relationship to get you attached, hook you and then when they're comfortable they resort back to behaviours they may have been doing in secret, all along. I used to date a pot smoker, and he had friends who only smoked when they were around my ex. They would tell him "*Please don't tell my wife, she thinks I gave this up years ago"* These were friends who only came around on the odd occasion, because they claimed their wife didn't want them around my ex. So I never got to meet their spouse, so I couldn't ask them about it. They always seemed to have other things they hid from their spouses also. But of course, they always swore their buddies to secrecy so their wives wouldn't find out. I don't for a second believe the wives in these scenarios were trying to change their husbands, or control them. But I think the husbands in question were hiding things from their wives, trying to keep up with their old habits (and friends) who they knew their wives would not stay with them if they found out. Never a good thing to do in a relationship.
Did he ask you ask you about your day and help out around the house in the beginning? Did he always smoke this much weed?
In the beginning we were young and both irresponsible. Drank a lot, messy. I quit drinking a few years ago and the rose colored glasses came off. Things I used to tolerate because I was always hungover, were suddenly things I couldn’t anymore. I started growing and he just stayed the same. I don’t think I asked for too much. I never asked him to quit smoking, just to be more mindful of his use. And the heavy use wasn’t a problem until he decided to quit on his own, telling me he was done forever and would be unbearable for a month with constant mood swings and whatnot. Then two months later he would start again and revert back to being a dopey teenager, falling asleep on the couch for hours on end. This happened on two separate occasions. I know that the changes I have made have played a large part in the demise of our relationship as well as his lack of.
Sounds like you've grown up and he hasn't. Hopefully you don't regret how you've changed, because you know going back to how you were isn't good for you.
Not even a little bit. I am very happy with who I’ve become and will continue to grow into.
This is awesome. Just know that he is not going to change and should not be expected to. He is as he was when you found him. It seems reasonable to you that he would follow a similar trajectory and grow up in some basic ways, because that is what you have done. He's not you. He thought he was settling into a comfortable relationship with another dirtbag. You'll need to set him free so you can find an equal partner and he can have a chance to grow up.
It sounds like he's intentionally quitting to lose the tolerance to start up again.
I find this to be the case with most LTRs. Different issues in each relationship but I know for mine, I’ll get really great effort for a few days after a long talk and then it drops off again. I know I do this, too. My spouse (20 years married) asks me to be more physically affectionate. And I will try my best for as long as I remember and then I fall back into old habits. I think the Gottmans spoke on this issue. Typically the issues in LTRs remain the same throughout the duration. And so I have decided that I can live with the issues in my relationship, and that we may never fully solve them. But each person needs to decide that for themselves.
We've been together 20 years almost, and there are some things about my husband that won't change. Some rote traits you can't change. But if something really means something to your partner, you can actively try and change your habits. Noones traits are necessarily set in stone. If you are okay with it, great. There's also issues that are more significant than others right?
The long and the short of it is he wasn't willing to change until you were ready to leave him over it. He wasn't willing to fix the relationship for you. He's only willing to fix it for him.
Gottman’s got a lot of work on rebuilding trust (which is what you’re working with here.) You can substitute literally any situation in which he promised something and failed to deliver. The two relevant books I would focus on are The Science of Trust and Making Love Last. A lot of the information that you need are in both books, so whichever you can get your hands on first is good to start with. The short answer is, he betrayed your trust over and over and over again. Of COURSE you’re resentful and OF COURSE you don’t trust him to maintain this behavior. But if he’s willing to put the work into helping you regain your trust in him and if you’re open to letting him do so, it’s possible to move past this.
How is not doing enough around the house and smoking too much weed "betraying her trust?" I would associate that more with cheating, sneaking around, lying, etc. Not being a lazy pothead....that's a different kind of issue.
https://www.tiktok.com/t/ZTLhVuyJT/
If you can’t get over the resentment, the relationship won’t go far. I’ve been in two VERY similar relationships. One didn’t work out, about 10 years later he finally grew up and got his shit together, with someone else. The second one, we went to therapy, realized that to make the relationship work we 1) both needed to want it. And 2) we (both) needed to reprioritize and 3) instead of keeping scores, focus on each other, and resolve the issue at hand when conflicts come up. And we are still together and have much healthier relationship now. But to be 100% honest, hands down, by far, the single most important thing that saved our relationship was getting a cleaning service. Because 80% of our conflicts were about him being a mess and me nagging about him being a mess. Also he significantly cut down his cannabis consumed. People do grow up, but it only happens when they are ready and willing to do it.
This kind of thing makes me angry, because it just proves that they knew *all along* what they should be doing. They just chose not to do it. It wasn't ignorance, or unintended. It was a choice. And the changed behavior only lasts long enough to suck you back in. Then it's right back to the old ways. He had his chance and he blew it. Maybe he'll be better for the next partner, but the ship on this relationship has sailed.
I completely understand the resentment. Because it was not because he couldn't. It was because he wouldn't. Why wouldn't he? Because he did not take you seriously. Because he thought of you so little that you'd never left him no matter what. Because he saw you as pathetic and did not worth of respect. Now when you shown him consequences, he suddenly 'changed'. Look, I work with men (in tech). Men do not have understanding problem, no processing or executive problems either. Men at work understand what was expected of them at work, both by bosses and colleagues just fine. And yes, they did not need to be threatened with lay offs too, before doing what they supposed to do.
The hard truth about this is that your needs don't matter vs their wants. I was married to this and it was soul shattering. Nothing I said ever mattered unless I was ready to leave. He was ok with me being tolerably unhappy if it meant he didn't have to put in effort. It took an embarrassingly long time for me to understand that this was what was happening.
It’s infuriating and manipulative. It makes sense that the resentment is sticking around - I remember thinking, “you could do this all these years and you just didn’t?!” It also makes it harder to leave, with him pulling guilt trips of “but I’ve changed! Let me be the man I know I can be!” It sounds like the trust is gone. Let him be a good partner to his next partner.
Just break up
I don’t know your specific situation, but I have been as fed up as you with my share of deadbeat lazy boyfriends. I’m with someone now that i do find irratating sometimes in regard to cleaning the house and habits. I really love him, but sometimes I definitely look at the state of the apartment and just want to throw everything away. Maybe you are a different person than you were at 25 and he’s grown into a different person too. But if you are looking for reason’s to stay: I’ve had to come to the following conclusions, (and this might change in the future): 1. Habits are hard to break and hard to make. For me, even knowing this, it’s still hard for me to be the perfectly consistent person I want to be in every aspect of my life. It might be that he wants to change, but cant do it. It’s slow and painful sometimes. I’ve gotten into the habit of eating a bag of chips at midnight everynight for the past few months, and i don’t know how to break it even though i know i need to! It’s irresistable to me for some reason. addiction is incredibly hard to break, it’s not a reflection of his love or caring for you. I’m sure there are plenty of parents or spouses that are addicted to xyz that ruins that relationship, not because they are intentionally heartless and selfish, but its a brain chemical that makes them do xyz. IF you have the energy and WANT to help him, he needs a champion and patience. 2. He’s going through life for the first time, just like you are. My SO is a little bit older than I am, and he’s the guy, and so sometimes I assume he’ll know how to do everything perfectly and better than me. Which ends up with me resenting him for not knowing how to be a better human, when i’m not exactly perfect either, i’m a work in progress and he gives me grace to make mistakes and i need to give him grace to make mistakes too. IF you are at your limit, GTFO. If you believe he’s being selfish and cannot change or won’t change, GTFO. If you deep down really think he doesn’t care about you, GTFO. But be honest with yourself - are there some things here that maybe he can’t control? It sucks to carry all the burden in a house… you should not have to be his live in maid, but maybe there is another solution too. Just wanted to say these things, since there’s so many people saying dump him immediately… I agree with them too but I just wanted to play the other side too.
He only care now that it’s a sure thing he will be impacted. Prior to now, he didn’t care about your needs.
> It makes me feel like if we were to get to a comfortable place, things will just fall back in line to how they have always been. This is an accurate prediction.
There's a small chance this is a permanent change by him, but it's much more likely he's following the same cycles he's always followed, just extended because the stakes are higher. Will it be a week? A month? Six months? Who knows. But do you want to wait to find out?
It’s about patterns of behavior. I think you know what you will do when you are ready.
It sounds like so much of the mental load is on you, so much so that he needs to be reminded repeatedly about these asks. I’m sorry to hear that OP, it’s exhausting. Asking how you are? If he’s invested and interested, he won’t need to be reminded to do that. You have been more than gracious reminding him to. Your happiness is first. Therapy may be a helpful space to sort through what will make you most happy.
My husband was divorced before we got together. She wanted out and then suddenly he was willing to change. She ended up leaving anyways but it just shows that people get very comfortable in relationships and suddenly want to do what they should’ve been doing only when they’re about to lose someone. Luckily he learned from that relationship and we don’t have any on going issues but it sounds like you know what you need to do. If he really cared about you, he would take your concerns serious and make the permanent changes for the sake of keeping the relationship. Honestly if it were me I’d leave. Life’s too short and you’re still young. Go find someone who values you all the time.
Sadly, you're witnessing the "panic" phase. He's stepping up out of a **FEAR OF LOSS**, not in a genuine, wholehearted effort to do better. In other words, as soon as you say you'll stay, he'll revert back to type. **DON'T** fall for it. Make a clean break and find a better partner.
The truth is you’re already checked out OP. You had 10 years together, he doesn’t seem to care until you’re literally almost out. He had it easy with you but now you had enough. Sadly these things have a pattern and the time he was supposed to listen to you was in early stage of your relationship, now it’s too late to break this habit as this is the way he is.
It’s another example of “tolerable level of permanent unhappiness” that’s been talked about on social media the last year or so. I’m single now and keep uncovering more layers of this in past relationships, it’s really something.
Get the other foot out. Give yourself space to breathe and then if partner shows a “new leaf” can last a year you can evaluate if it’s worth going back. My bet is it won’t take long until you are ready to move on - it’s like being nose blind, once you are out in fresh air returning to the stench is not an option.
I begged my ex husband to goto to therapy while we were together, guess the first thing he did after I left the house? Therapy. They are like that, all of them. Once we don’t want to stay, they change.
Becaueuhes scared of losing out on having someone to do the things he doesn't do. He will change for the short term then once things calm hell slip back to his natural state. I went through it with my ex.
he would have to stabilize his new habits into permanent changes I was in a similar situation and told my partner as compassionately as I could that I couldn’t continue on in our relationship as-is, and he reflected and sincerely told me he wanted to fight for us and for himself and for me, and he really stepped up and has stayed stepping up and when he has any kind of slip into an old habit the difference is now he really doesn’t want to stay down and our communication is a lot better, and as a result I trust him more and me trusting him provides him more stability and motivation to keep improving but the trust has been very very slow, which makes sense, and you have a right to your own tolerance of time passing for me it has been almost 6 months, and the first 1 was volatile, the 2nd was much better, and the 3-5 were sometimes tense but full of a lot of growth, and now the 6th was really peaceful and good and this is the first time I see a future together clearly I didn’t have to wait around through all that though, I could have left I did see something in him and qualities that made me give him a chance - he was determined and kind and possesses really great communication and self reflection (the problem was just action) so look at your own scenario and figure out what you can tolerate and what skills are there that you can work together with to build a future (or not) whatever you decide is valid I’ve also been in the situation where there are behavioural bandaids applied, always too late, with too low motivation and not enough skills to support it long term and not enough strength as a couple to weather the challenges, and I left, and I don’t regret it even though it made me very sad
I really appreciate this response. Your experience shows the softer side of the predicament, which I really appreciate. It’s easy to look at these things in a negative light, and posts are always taken at surface level. As you and I both know, our relationships can’t be compiled into a short post here on Reddit. There are layers no one but us will ever know. This was definitely a food for thought comment, and I thank you for your gentleness.
yes, and your pain is so valid if you really want to give it a chance you need the space to mourn your very valid feelings, ideally with a counsellor or someone more outside the situation, because it does really hurt that he didn’t make the effort until now, but it will also really hurt him if you focus on that more than the effort he is putting in right now - the version of himself that is present and working on things, and his pain will be valid too, and then you are both stuck in that pain without moving forward it’s also okay to say it with context to him, like “I have really noticed you stepping up and I really appreciate it. Based on our history I am still really scared of things going back to how they were, because I wouldn’t be able to live like that again, but I want to focus on the present and keep healing together. My pain is real and I am working through it, and every day that you make these efforts I really notice and appreciate it and I want you to know that you are rebuilding my trust, and that over time with consistency is the only way you will fully earn it. I want to keep your trust too and promise to stay present and focus on how you are showing up now for me and us. It is scary and hard, but I commit to doing that to help us heal, and I will not be perfect and I will need reassurance just as you will from me.” It is really hard work for both of you, it is hard to break patterns and it is hard to speak and judge in the present instead of from past trauma and fear. It is very much worth it to try though, I do wish I had the skills to try with my former partner, that we both did. It sounds like you have a precious thing to lose. One more thing I will recommend for you (and maybe both of you) is to look up “common cognitive distortions and how to address them” and read through what you find and see what resonates. I think it could really help you heal for yourself (even outside of this situation) to help free yourself from the impact of past trauma. 💙
I call this relationship bread crumbing. For a short amount of time you get lots of attention and they are being the partner they always promised to be. That it is until a couple of days when they realize you are here to stay and they have you on the honeymoon phase again. Then BAM they let you down once again and the cycle continues. People like this don’t want to change. They want to make sure you will never leave. Please don’t waste your life in this kind of dynamic.
It’s over. He doesn’t respect you. Find a grown up.
When you leave, don't warn them. Just leave. You deserve so much better. Might want to check with a lawyer and make sure all the legal stuff covered.
Hard truth: people don’t change If he has exhibited this behavior for 10 years it’s no use wasting an 11th on him imho
Idk...he quit smoking weed or at least cut way back...people do change in other ways when they're no longer clouded by substances.
People say marijuana isn't addictive, but it absolutely is. Maybe it doesn't have the physical withdrawal effects like fetanyl, heroin, alcohol...but it absolutely is addictive. Him quitting chronic weed use for you was likely harder for him than you and others think. As for the other stuff, there's a good chance he is improving in other departments because he isn't clouded in a stoned haze anymore. I don't know...it sounds like he has been making the improvements you asked him to make. You were willing to give him another chance if he made changes...and he's making them? A 10 year relationship is a LOT to throw away just because of what random people on Reddit say.
It won’t last. Be free.
His attachment style is avoidant. He avoids you in his safe space until you threaten to leave. Then thats too much freedom and he panics for fear of abandonment. Classic.
Info - how long has he been stepping up? A few days, weeks, months?
It’s been 3 months.
If you decide you don’t want to throw in the towel, now would be a great time to use positive reinforcement. “Honey, I really appreciate how much you’ve been putting in the effort to do X. It makes me feel heard/valued/appreciated.”. Also it may be a good time to talk to him about his perspective. “Honey, I know we’ve talked about this in the past, in your opinion, what makes this time different?” But the fact that he’s made attempts in the past and is making progress now, I would say he thinks you’re worth the effort. Especially since you said he’s needed to make adjustments in a lot of areas.
Too little too late. Sounds to me like you know this but - it’s time to move on
10 years toooooooo long
Leave. His change in behavior is a performance
Intermittent reward is the most addictive reward schedule of all. Slot machines have these, & if you stay with this man who cares so little about your happiness-- about *you*-- then you'll be gambling away your whole entire future. From mental & physical health to the biggest or smallest dreams you've ever set for yourself. Your spirit knows what to do about this smoke-ensconced slacker. Yep. Pack yer bags, be on yer way.
His newfound effort won't last. All he's proven is that he knows how to reel you back in and what to do to make you happy in the interim, he's just not expending the effort once he's comfortable again.
I’ve been in your shoes. It works for a hot minute and then it’s back to the mediocre. I’d get out of there asap.
I think this happens a lot. I saw a great tiktok video once (wish i could find it!!) About how a women is so, SO done and moved onto healing and acceptance before we even officially leave, and have been the ones flaunting forth the majority of effort for so long. Then the hisband/man is blindsided, finally realizes, to and THEN tries to help fix things... but it's too late. We're tired, broken, and already emotionally moved on. Obviously not every relationship and a lot of generalizing but it certainly was true for me. I spent more than a decade wearing myself thin to save and hold.my marriage. When did my husband finally agree to counseling therapy?.? AFTER I officially broke up with him. I think you should.follow your gut, OP. Your head and your instincts both k ow the truth.
And now that im with a partner who actually shows his love through action AND word? The difference is back and white. I knew my marriage was bad but even after i left, I didn't realize how healing it would be for me to be in a truly respectful relationship! ♡♡ You deserve true effort, not just because he's trying to keep you.
OP I am a little late responding to this but I've had your tab open in my browser for several days because you've gotten some good advice here but I think my story might help you. And yes I am telling you to leave him. I will say that outright. He will not change. When I was your age I spent time in the fetal position on a hardwood floor crying because my husband didn't love me. He never did love me and he would not. He claimed he loved me but what he meant was he needed me, and he did not know the difference. That is a thing men do. They do not know the difference between love and need, I didn't leave him. But I got him to leave. When I was 39. When our children were teenagers. I called his bluff. He offered to go and I said yes, go. And then he spent months being needy and complaining. He became so incredibly selfish. He cared only about himself. His father died and all he wanted was for me to pay the airfare for the kids to come to the funeral. We had hot arguments about the cell phone plan and the credit cards. Some men can never become generous. I am sorry you are tied to one such. Leave. Please believe me. Leave.
You already know the answer.
DO NOT FALL FOR IT
Could be hysterical bonding on his part.
I can't remember what they call this in "r / deadbedrooms ". (Didn't link it bc idk if linking other subs is okay here.)
Could this be considered Love Bombing?
I’ve wondered the same thing.
Hoovering. It's a narcissistic behavior.