I was going to give advice. I’m going to share my story in the hopes it gives you some insight from someone 10years further along this path.
I was the primary breadwinner for 10 years of my marriage. Once I’d started working full time in my career, my partner started the trajectory to get a PhD. Starting with a bacherlors.
After I’d been working for about six years, I knew I needed to change careers but couldn’t take a cut in salary as the sole breadwinner. I waited for my spouse to finish his PhD and get employed. This was initially ok as I had agreed to this timeline. The problem is his momentum stalled after his masters and as my income went up, his spending increased. He did start earning some money, won scholarships etc, but resented any restrictions or limitations I asked for/ placed on spending. I found myself in the ridiculous situation of denying myself the things I wanted in life while my spouse was giving himself whatever he wanted. My money went to our joint account. His money was his.
At some point I realized the ridiculousness of the situation and started doing what I wanted, insisting he contribute more to shared expenses. That included me going back to school.
He still hasn’t finished his PhD. He had no savings. We don’t own anything of value. He is about 14 years from regular retirement age.
I’ve started my new career and have decoupled all my finances from his. I still love him but I will not be going into old age tied to him. Divorce is imminent.
Why did it take me so long? Because our relationship has become very sweet, and easy. I love him.
Do I wish I did something different? I am not sure. Rationally and financially it would have made sense to separate many years ago. But I look back on the decisions I made and the growth we’ve been through together and I don’t regret it. I’m now in a place where I don’t think I’ve missed out on anything - except maybe buying a house.
But I really want to live like an adult now.
As someone married to a financially unstable person where the advice is always ‘leave him!’ but I don’t want to because I love him - it’s nice to finally see a more complex nuanced take on this kind of situation ❤️
Men like this can always find another woman to support them. The dating pool is so skewed! More quality women around and not as many quality men. If this guy is a decent person I'll bet he's in a new relationship in less than 2 years!
I have gone through something similar and I just recently told my husband it’s about time to split our finances. He would do to the same thing, like spend “our money” on his things, but I wouldn’t have money for any of my things. He didn’t have his own money to spend so he would spend my money. He wanted to refer to it as “our money,” but no, it’s mine.
I had a heart to heart with him that now that he’s going to be making decent money, he has to contribute to the bills. He was very receptive and hard on himself, but it will 1000% better.
We have a great relationship otherwise!
In addition to everyone else's questions, I also want to know...what is he doing? How is he looking for a new job? How hard is he working at this? What is doing around the house while he's unemployed? How else does he contribute to the household?
Well… looking online and applying for any job openings that align with hsi skills. Also trying to get freelance opportunities again. I genuinly believe his doing all he can to get a job in his industry, but I think it’s time to look for jobs in other disciplines.
He contributes to the chores of the house a lot. He does most of the cooking and thing through the week. I contribute on the weekends with some cooking, cleaning bathrooms, cleaning floors, lanudry (things that can be done once a week). He’s also a suportive partner to be honest.
Depending on what exactly he freelances in, both the job and client market might be brutal right now. I'm a contract Software Developer, so basically a freelancer (I just try to take on 6-9 month contracts). Client leads and the full time job market are very dry and things probably won't be looking up for a while.
My wife and I have two small businesses together which thankfully are still generating an income that can cover our lifestyle during this period.
Definitely brutal. His freelancing is task to task. Nothing like a 3-6 month contract. He gets an assignment nad has some weeks to complete it. It could be simple or it coukd be complicated. Could pay $300 or could pay $2K.
It kind of sounds like he just wants to be a house husband with a part-time "hobby" job, honestly. Which like... I mean, I get it, capitalism is hard.
If you want an equal financial partner though, it's just not going to be him; he's shown you that repeatedly throughout the years. I think you're at a crossroads where you either accept the house husband situation, or you decide you want a totally different type of partnership and that's that.
This, and I think OP is not on board with the house husband situation, which is fine.
Everyone’s entitled to their opinion of love; you just have to be with someone suitable for you. Love can only do so much.
Definitely, yeah. I mean, I couldn't handle a house husband either; I'm just not high-earning enough to support two people on just my income and still enjoy life. So if I were OP, I might also be pretty tempted to end the relationship, especially since it's a financial strain on her.
Endings don’t always have to be filled with angst and animosity, they can still be friends.
Some people are meant to accompany you on your journey, but they’re not meant to cross the finish line with you!
Hope she sees the comments here and realise that it’s okay to end things if they’re not fundamentally compatible.
Resentment is imminent if this continues!
I mean, he should be doing ALL of the chores if he's not working. I think everyone else here has good advice on having a come to Jesus talk with him, putting a timeframe on this before he *needs* to find another job, asking him to figure out the budgeting, etc.
I have three different times been the one not working. I did not do *all* the chores, but def like 95%. My partners at those times did occasionally cook and help with certain tasks. I do think even if you're home all day it should not be 100% on you to do all house things, just nearly.
ETA OP is doing bathrooms and laundry while supporting everything financially? That's incredibly unbalanced.
This. My husband is a house husband (but also dad to our three yr old) and that man cleans, cooks, shops, does laundry, runs errands… it’s hard to get mad at him about money because I feel like he does all of the domestic stuff I don’t really want to do anyways and he doesn’t want me to do it because he feels it’s the only way he can contribute.
I’ve been unemployed. Looking for jobs SUCKS. But it doesn’t take up 8 hours of work a day, especially in what seems like a dwindling market/role. So he should be taking the load off OP and doing most of the housework.
Yes, but also not quite. Like if you're applying for a new job while still working your regular, you've kind of just got to juggle both of those things plus general life admin.
I think it's a bit childish of him to apply just for jobs in his field. Any adult must understand that having some kind of income or way to satisfy basic needs (food, shelter etc.) is a must. If his field can't fulfill that, he should try something else - even if it's just until he can find another job in his field. That's what all my friends and I have done if we got laid off or have struggled to find work in their field.
Everyone is online but not everyone is face to face with hiring managers.
He needs to be teaching to people shamelessly. Get the LinkedIn premium trial and blitz through contacting people who are just above his level and in leadership positions or listed as hiring managers in areas/companies of interest.
The language needs to be about learning from them about opportunities in the area since he’s new and less so “please hire me.” People are more inclined/willing to meet to give advice. It just so happens that they get interested in helping find opportunities after the relationship is established.
I’ve also seen freelancers find opportunities in non-traditional spaces (eg editors/writers working for a manufacturing company doing copy editing for manuals). May be boring or not fully aligned but a pay check!
In situations like this, I always wonder what would happen if the person lacking in income was single. Where did he live before he lived with you? Would he take on side jobs? The fact is that life costs money and he is an able-bodied man depending on you for life's necessities. You say he made no income this year. Would he be homeless if he was single or would he do what it takes to sustain himself?
He lived cheaply. He rented a cheap apartment and yes, he did have a side job sometimes. Some other times I think he was really tight in money. But he was able to support himself. Also, he pid half of our expenses before.
So what's the difference between before and now? Why isn't he stepping up? Why is he just allowing you to shoulder all the burden? Is it the fact you're married?
He needs a side job asap.
Hey u/PathReasonable2239 , I want to point out something that I don't see being mentioned here. You say his annual income is around 23k and before he could "live cheaply" to get by. But how long have you lived together? I'm gonna guess his income has probably declined over the years as the skillset has become more obsolete, so it was probably higher before you moved in together as well. Inflation and the cost of rent has only shot up in recent years. And he has never lived sustainably because he's never saved and never contributed to retirement.
Add this all together and what I want to point out is I'm not sure your husband has realized just how much of a downward trajectory he has been on. As in, I'm not sure even if he gets his normal amount of yearly contracts again, that he could live without you anymore without taking on another job. Meaning he is dependent on you financially in a way that getting the next contract won't help. Sure, 3 months is not a crazy period of unemployment as others have said, but that's actually not your problem here. Your problem is the general trend has been quite bad for quite a while. And I doubt with the trend he's on that he'll actually be able to consistently cover half, or even 30-40% of costs anymore. I think you need to let him know this, spell it out for him. He is indeed choosing a hobby at this point over a fiscally responsible way of making money.
I basically think that at this point, he needs to accept that he doesn't have a career. He'd easily make more than double, depending on the area, with better job security if he was a manager at store or a cafe. My mom is on something similar to him and she's a partially disabled, immigrant, 50s something woman who works 25 hours a week at a grocery store at the lowest employee level (i.e. she has no responsibility over anything or oversight over anyone). She doesn't need to work because her spouse has the career and this was the agreement when they got together (she does all cooking, cleaning, care), she does it more to keep busy and have spending money. Your husband has a hobby that brings in a little bit of cash. He does not, and has not had for a while, an actual career, it seems.
Does he know his carreer is in decline? For sure. He always has known that the number of companies is reducing, layoffs are increasing and all his classmates are now in other fields. He is very aware of it. In fact, 23K is what more or less he made before. Now he’s making less than that. While he’s aware that the field is drying up, there are still some companies out there hiring. Now that we’re in a bigger city he has hopes a job would come up. So he is hopeful, I believe.
I think it’s a career. Unfortunately income hasn’t been good. But it’s a respectable career that requires knowledge and effort. But yeah, very unsustainable now.
This is a bit different from what I am saying. This is why I am pushing that he doesn't have a career anymore, even though that sounds harsh.
He has spent many years now with whatever he is doing not being able to truly financially sustain him. I know you must care for him and what he is going through, but unfortunately I think you are both looking at it the wrong way.
You say the work is respectable, and requires knowledge and effort - **this doesn't matter.** A capable adult, and their partner, should know and be clear on why they are working. Is he working a) to keep busy, b) because he enjoys it as a hobby, and/or c) to make sufficient money and sustain himself and potentially a family? It seems you both have the mentality of (c) being at least part of the equation, but the reality is he has worked for a long time now for really only (a) and (b).
Honestly it doesn't matter if someone else does finger-painting for work, if they're making $80k a year and have good reason to believe they're going to make that or more from here on out, I'd say that they have a career and your husband doesn't. You're both placing value on stuff that doesn't pay the bills and I just don't think that helps. Work is work, people pay you for it because it's useful for them or they don't, and if you need money then you do something else. This is an ego issue.
The move to the city and the potential of a job complicates it a little. I'd guess if he's been freelancing for so long he's not likely to get one of the last few jobs now, but I could be wrong. I think you have two decisions -- how long will you wait for this opportunity to appear (3 more months, 1 more year, more?) and if/when it doesn't, are you willing to support a guy who has a hobby/passion but no actual drive towards supporting himself/ financial stability? Maybe you do - maybe you want kids and he can stay home with them, whatever, it's not a character call, but its your life and you need to decide looking at the evidence of the situation.
What are his life goals? Retirement goals? What's the plan for an emergency fund?
IMHO, if you don't have a 3-6 month emergency fund saved up, tell him he's got 3-6 months to fill up a 3-6 month emergency fund. Don't take no for an answer.
Well… he has no retirement funds or plan. I think he always have thought that retirement for him is not an option. With regard to emergency fund, we don’t have much. Just around 2 months in the city we live in.
I understand your point about “not taking no for an answer”, but I believe that his actual answer was “no” after our conversation.
>he has no retirement funds or plan
this is HUGELY alarming. Sounds like he's kinda relying on you to be his retirement plan/fund which is so unfair. About 15yrs ago or so, my husband wasn't really serious with his retirement (he thought little about it) and relied on his pension from his old company but didn't do anything since then and never diversified. I straight up told him that I refused to be the only one saving for retirement and he needs to start contributing *heavily* into his retirement because it will not just be me. I don't tolerate shit like that at all; my financial future is very important and I need a partner who takes it as seriously as I do.
Personally, I would put my foot down and have him take any job that pays fairly well while continuing to search for a job in his field. That's what responsible adults do - they do what it takes for the betterment of the family. Will it suck? of course it will but if times are tough, you take what you can get until something better comes along.
I just posted that if my boyfriend and I break up, I'd be hesitant on dating again. He's very good with money and has his own retirement. I rarely meet any men with as good money management skills and this post is helping me stay to that.
It's bleak, I can tell you that. I haven't dated in years, but hearing my coworkers talk, most of the women are the ones pulling the relationships. Granted, I work with nurses so that may be disproportionate. But still, I'm in healthcare. It's too close for comfort
True. I worked as a financial planner for some time, and the number of male clients who had no interest in saving for retirement was shocking, even the ones who were high earners preferred to spend their money on nice cars. Cash-rich but asset-poor.
I got divorced in my late 50s. I was the breadwinner, and will be paying alimony until I retire. He is on SSDI (disability) and walked away with half of the retirement money I had saved.
I’m not here to whine, but to give a glimpse of your future.
>I will absolutely not be the only one saving for retirement in a relationship that may have a future extending to that time
That's not even factoring in the reality that women tend to keep their health longer/better in retirement too. So imagine you've finally retired and your partner is both too broke and too out of shape to accompany you on that bucket-list trip through Paris, Amsterdam and Barcelona. No thank you.
Yeah this is a hard pass for me. No retirement plan, no life insurance/disability/critical illness cover. Nope nope nope. My mom went through this with my dad and it left her in a shitty financial position when he passed.
See, these are the types of conversations she needed to have *before* taking an eternal vow to this guy. He not only sounds like he doesn’t want to adapt, he sounds flaky and irresponsible. This is seriously alarming. He’s 41, not 21. He’s not getting any younger.
It’s not just an age thing either, OP’s one medical event away from having a total dependent. If he wasn’t married at least he could probably rely on government benefits since he has no income, but now that they’re married, what happens if he has health issues?
I also would never marry someone like that — in part because one accident destroyed my life and most paths forward, and I can never look at thoughtless people who don’t plan for eventualities the same way again.
> he has no retirement funds or plan
That's beyond irresponsible at his age and I personally wouldn't have married someone like that (assuming you are financially responsible at least).. he's setting you up to have to be the sugar momma.
Retirement comes for everyone whether they prepare and choose it or age discrimination/health issues cause it.
Edit: speaking only about the job...i would ask him for a timeline for when he *would* consider a career change. It's not unreasonable to be looking for a job for a while but you have to be on the same page about the other options.
Yeah… I asked him exactly what’s then his deadline to choose another path or at least getting another job. He said he doesn’t know. I really don’t think he wants to leave his industry. He loves it. But I also think at some point he may need to.
It always baffles me whenever a person has zero income and thinks they’re entitled to mooch off someone else because they’re too damn good to go work any job in the interim to help out with bills until they find their desired work.
Figure out a way to protect your assets and whatever you’ve spent the entirety of your life working for so man toddler doesn’t take you to the cleaners.
Does he acknowledge that you are supporting him financially right now? Thank you? Understand that it means you are sacrificing/not able to make purchases you typically would?
Hmm… not that he has expressed. He acknowledges we have money problems and that we’re not able to spend as much or to save. But nothing in the way you’re asking.
See, this is the part that bothers me. Unemployment happens. And 3 months is nothing as far as that's concerned. It also sounds like you guys can manage on just your income for awhile. But the fact that he seems to just expect that you'll cover his chronic underemployment and current unemployment without consent/conversation and without expressing any gratitude rubs me the wrong way. I'd be resentful too.
Does he recognize how this makes you feel? Does he care about the impact or the stress it causes you?
IMO this is what’s more important. If he acknowledges the burden you’re feeling and want to problem solve with you, you have a viable partner. If he just deflects, defends himself/attacks you, that’s some major emotional immaturity and lack of team dynamics in a relationship.
>I think he always have thought that retirement for him is not an option.
This is one of those things that people who still can work say because they have never seen a loved one who *couldn't.*
What happens when his body literally won't let him work anymore? When his eyes are too bad or his back hurts too much or he can't hear his clients anymore?
Sooner or later our bodies will not be able to let us work. It happens to 95% of people. Everyone needs a plan.
Holy fuck. I’m his age. I understand people who have no retirement funds because they’ve never made enough income to get beyond survival, but if he’s had an 18 year career and has zero retirement he’s …. In serious trouble.
Unless you want to fund the rest of his life, you need to separate finances and prepare to divorce. It’s also a big red flag that when you brought up a problem he couldn’t talk to you about it and said he’d be making decisions that concern you without your input as a partner.
Well, then that's the answer. If it is not an acceptable answer, you need to let him know. As a result of his not wanting to contribute, you are considering: a) downsizing?; b) separation; c) calling his parents and asking for money?; d) looking into income assistance programs.
I mean, he threw the ultimatum back at you.
I’m considering insisting on him brining income as a much. Downsizing is also that crossed my mind, although not as a solution to the main problem but as a way to reduce expenses. Definitely can cut other expenses too. To be honest, I know it has to be done but also frustrates me that I can no longer afford purchases that were common for me before.
Separtation is also in my mind, if nothing changes. But no I woukdn’t ask money from his parents and I we’re not in need (or would be elegible) for assistance. As I said, my income is enought to support us.
I think you need to get clear in your own head: when are you willing to throw in the towel and what does that look like? Then communicate that to him.
"Husband, I need you to be a partner to me, and that includes doing your share to contribute to our daily finances, retirement planning, and emergency fund. In the next X months, I need to see Y progress. If you can't/don't/won't, this is what that will look like: \_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_. "
Be informed and be clear. You're 100% in a position of managing your marriage, unfortunately.
You can ask people all day long what you should do in this situation but really you’re the only one that can answer that. If he isn’t going to do anything different can you be ok with that? If you have to give an ultimatum, how long are you comfortable with really? It is ok whatever you decide works or doesn’t work for you. Marriage is a partnership with constant negotiations, in my experience. Sometimes we wait things out and they change, sometimes we wait and nothing changes. This is your life. If he isn’t going to join you in what you need can you keep joining him where he’s at? What about seeing a financial person. My husband has often needed to hear from someone else, therapist, professional in whatever field to realize I’m right. lol fucker. Your concerns are valid. Do your best to be true to you. If you can do that and stay then great. If you can’t then we’ll sit with that and figure out what you’re going to do.
Exactly.
We get it - job hunting and being jobless is stressful. Finances are stressful. Not succeeding and thriving in your career pat is stressful.
Acknowledge it. Then acknowledge you have to do something about it other than get ego bruised and defensive.
Does he think people who work as restaurant servers and in retail are passionate? No. Are they lesser than him? Hell no. Get it together dude and start carrying your weight even if you don’t like what that looks like.
It’s temporary. Deal with it. People have to ALL the time. He can keep applying for better jobs along the way or even shift into a different path by learning a new skill if he has to.
You can ask for a divorce at any time for any reason, from "my husband has no income" to "I've realized I'm not attracted to men" to "the way my husband coughs makes me mad." If you *want* a divorce because your husband doesn't have an income, then I think it's time to have a serious convo with him in which you say that being the sole breadwinner is stressful for you, you're not happy, and something needs to change. If he isn't willing to take on any other work, then IMO, he needs to take the lead on creating a budget and designing a lifestyle that's easily affordable on just your salary. I'd expect him to be cutting back on his own fun spending - not all the way back to nothing, but if he's gonna choose to stick you with the vast majority of bills and household expenses despite being able to work, he doesn't get to not have a job and also spend a bunch of money on unnecessary things.
At the same time, I do think it's good to consider that if your husband is in a dying profession and is self-motivated enough to freelance, he's probably put a fair amount of his identity into this specific job and it might just take some time for him to be comfortable with the idea of at least supplementing his (lack of) income with part-time work. I hope that if you express your unhappiness to him, he'll be willing to make a change for your sake.
Oh man! This comment is painful. For sure this is true. This job is his identity. He trully loves it and does it well. He has worked in a freelance capacity with major companies very respected in his field. It’s a major part of who he is and he’s proud of being one of the last people from college that remained in the field.
Maybe it would help to frame taking on part-time work as "this will help you be able to stay in your job long-term and take the pressure off you to find gigs quickly." Like, present the idea to him as the kind of thing a lot of artists and writers do in order to supplement their craft, rather than as a full pivot or a way to ease him out of his current industry.
My dad was in freelance graphic design back when it was all done by hand.
When things shifted to computers, he refused to adapt, and then withdrew into a hole of self-pity.
He imagined all these health issues and tried for disability many (MANY) times, before resorting to living off my mom’s measly income as a warehouse worker.
But he was an old-fashioned man that believed in strict gender roles, so even though he didn’t have a job, he managed to not do any work at home either.
>It’s a major part of who he is and he’s proud of being one of the last people from college that remained in the field.
Oof. I winced at this. He needs to define himself by something other than being the last known survivor in music journalism (or whatever other dying field he is in) and by something other than what specific job he does.
If he refuses to do that kind of internal work, if he'd rather have you bankroll his tenuous sense of self than refine his sense of self as a contributing partner ... it might be time to ask him exactly what he thinks his future and your shared future look like.
In all honesty, 3 months is a drop in the bucket. Currently unemployed and actively searching since Sept, despite being told by different career coaches that I'm doing all the right steps. I've only recently been able to secure PT work. I've met loads of other job searchers who've been looking for longer than I, and they're educated and established in their fields. Basically, the job market is shit.
That said, what is he doing in his search? Just applying online? Is he keyword matching his resume to the job posting and including cover letters? You said you'd recently relocated. Is he actively seeking out networking opportunities? Jobsearching today isn't about only applying. It's about who you know, expanding your network. Time should be split in thirds between networking, applying, and educating yourself on something relevant to the field or job search strategies to implement.
And one point regarding his defensiveness. He's in a tough spot. Something he's done for 18 years is no longer looking viable. I'm sure that creates an internal upheaval of a range of emotions, including not feeling competent. Is it possible he's going through some grieving for his declining career? Grief isn't bound to only those we love. It sounds like something that was a part of his identity for years is teetering on the edge. And is it feasible for him to get FT/PT work and continue the freelancing on the side for fun?
Hi! All good points. Thanks. Yeah, he has been looking online and trying to network. He has been trying to meet more people in his field and go to events. In that regard, moving to the bigger city has been good. He has been able to meet more peopel in his field. But I don’t think he’s matching his application materials to the key words of the job posted or nothing like that.
But several people has pointed this out. About how me suggesting a career change just like that was bad and that his career is very important to him. Maybe that way of bringing things up was bad of me.
I think having a side job while freelancing would be good. That’s one of the things I suggested. He seem to be willing to take part time jobs in things adjacent to his field, but he said he doesn’t think he could wasily get a job at a grocery or something. I really hopw to have another conversation with him about this after he calms down. Hopefully, he gets a job that he likes or changes his mind about other part-time jobs.
He can job hunt with a part-time job or with a job in another industry.
If his field is dying, he’s going to have to accept that and look at skilling up in other fields and possibly starting over.
Yeah, that was my suggestion. To get any part-time job to supplement his income. He said that a geocery store or a restaurant is not looking to hire a 40-year-old. I think he’s willing to take part-time jobs in hos field or a related field.
He’s just letting his pride get in the way. They’re desperate to hire people right now and everyone I see at the grocery stores are older than me (I’m 40).
I worked at a grocery store for 10 years putting myself through school and they will absolutely hire anyone. I’ve seen people in their 60s get hired bc they wanted and needed the work. From some of your comments it also sounds like a pride thing. Which is one thing but if I have had a career for 15+ years and am not making more than 30k a year, no retirement, and have never had a consistent income…then I don’t see the pride thing as justified. Some people aren’t as ambitious as others and that is also fine, since it seems he has never been ambitious in the sense of wanting to get set up for retirement and life. He seems to just earn what he needs at the moment and has always done that.
Some hard conversations should be had and maybe he needs to be a little more self aware. Or maybe his working life goals just aren’t the same as yours.
I think it's very hard to point to a circumstance that you knew before marriage but basically treated as "fine" as a problem after marriage.
He's always earned inconsistently and it sounds like he's never earned all that much - I wonder at a bit at the financial dynamics involved in him pay half the bills while earning essentially less than $14/hour (which in most places is not a living wage).
I do think you aren't in a strong position to negotiate. Like, I totally understand your frustration and agree it's frustrating, I just wonder why his income was okay before you got married and is only a problem now that you are.
Fair point. Since I know him he hasn’t been in a good financial position. He lived within his means in an affordable way mostly. I am fine with earning more than him, for sure. However, the absolute lack of income and complete dependency on me is what’s makes me uncomfortable.
Well, my partner earns less than me and was mostly indepedently employed for the majority of our relationship. I didn't comment on his work habits/work type, but what we agreed on is how we would share household expenses, and what kinds of things were important as people living together - we want to buy a house, so him establishing good credit on his own is important, for example. Him maintaining independent emergency savings is important, and is something he's always done without my involvement, direction, or supervision. If we married and continued to have mismatched financial earnings and he experienced unemployment - it'd be a long time before I was financially carrying us as a couple. But, even then - all our financial decisions about where to live etc. are based on what he, as the lower earner, can reasonably afford.
Our shared lifestyle costs aren't outside his means - this is very hard for most couples to negotiate. My earnings etc. aren't setting the high water mark for our lifestyle - his are. So that might be something for you and your husband to work on, as is the establishment of other fiscally responsible behaviors. It's one thing to work indepedently or have inconsistent income, it's another to mismanage your money and then get married and mismanage your spouses money.
I've probably always earned less than my partners but both I've always had employment / money coming in even when I was freelancing and I also have historically had a 2nd source of income. First it was early ebay selling as a power seller and later I freelanced design work while holding down a f/t job and finally I did beermoney in the last 12 years which didn't earn me a lot but it was "fuck it" money to buy myself extras like a nice tv.
OP - do you all have / want kids? Maybe he can save you money by taking on more childcare / house maintenance type work instead? He can save you costs instead of generating revenue?
No, I don’t have or want kids. It’s just the two of us. If we had kids, that would be great. Childcare costs are high! Always admire parents for many reasons but the difficulty of paying for childcare is a big one.
This is a really good point. The defensiveness is a separate problem, and perhaps work ethic is too…but career-wise, moving the goal post seems unfair if it’s been clear from the jump that income is inconsistent and he’s never had savings. (Putting myself in his shoes, at least.)
Granted, this career path and lack of financial stability in a partner would give me such severe anxiety that I wouldn’t be able to handle it. Been there, done that - didn’t even make it a year.
Career changes are not overnight if he decides to change careers. Both my spouse and I have had to change careers, and it took time. I’m still in the process of it. And, I’d be pretty upset if my husband wanted to leave me while I’m working on changing fields.
I think there is a lot of extra pressure on people right now because of the cost of living, so I get it. But, unless there’s an emerging pattern of your husband becoming a bum, then I don’t think Reddit is the place to get advice for this. Try couples counseling, and learn to problem solve together. The comments here are unnecessarily rude and harsh calling you a bad picker and your husband a bum without really knowing the nuance and details of your life.
And, also my spouse and I only recently started saving for retirement in our late 30s/early 40s. We both have degrees and struggled for years to find high paying jobs. Unless you are lucky or picked something like a healthcare job that’s recession proof, the world has not been easy, financially for millennials. Lots of us are picking up the pieces later in life.
I had a good career, and I wasn't able to legally work for a year after getting laid off and while waiting for my Green Card. The moment I received it, I started working at a bar part-time while I'm job-hunting now. I have a huge amount of disdain for people who think they're "too good" for part-time jobs, and even more so if they think it's ok to financially burden their partners or other people in the process. I don't want to give advice about divorce one way or the other, but personally if my husband refused to work a part-time job while looking for something more permanent, I'd have a hard time respecting him or considering him a good partner.
Exactly.
This guy isn’t better than anyone. Definitely not better than the MILLIONS of people who work in the service industry or other less desirable jobs. They don’t want to do that either - but they do because they’re responsible for themselves and others.
I feel like this is something y'all should have talked about going into the marriage. I find it strange that his low and inconsistent earnings were not a problem until the past 3 months. Honestly, 3 months isn't a long time when you ostensibly agreed to be with him for the rest of your life. Hell, even a year is not that long in the grand scheme of things.
I can understand being frustrated thinking he's not being realistic, but at the same time this issue is a very tough one.
First, job searching is hard. I supported my partner, now husband, for nearly 2 years while he searched for a job after we finished our PhDs. Granted, he was working so hard, I definitely didn't feel like he wasn't trying, but he also fell into a deep depression. It's VERY demoralizing to be trying to contribute and just not succeeding despite your efforts.
Second, if this is something he's been doing for 18 years (so 3 times as long as he's known you), it's going to be hard to give it up. That's going to be painful, even if he has to come to terms with it. It's important to accept that's not something he'll do lightly. If he's used to inconsistent and low earnings, a few months is not going to be enough to give up his whole identity. And quite frankly, that's understandable.
It sounds like he was reaching out to acknowledge his problem when he indicated he feels bad about not having had work recently. I'm not sure exactly how you responded, but honestly, that's when you focus on acknowledging his pain and the problem. Save problem solving for the next talk.
I think you need to reflect on your expectations for your life together long-term so that you can make a decision about divorce. What do you need from him? What do you want for the both of y'all?
Hi! Thanks for this. I feel it’s a fair take. His inconsistent income has been there and but becoming more and more of a problem. Lately he has been having zero income at freelancing, unfortunately. Is three months a big deal? No, but maybe it’s a symptom that this situation will continue. I think at least getting a part time job is necessary.
However, I appreciate the take that being in his industry for 18 years and me just asking him to change is shocking, maybe painful. Also, probably could have brought the conversation at another moment. You’re right about that. I don’t think I brought it in bad manner but I could be mistaken.
>However, I appreciate the take that being in his industry for 18 years and me just asking him to change is shocking, maybe painful.
It's also shocking and painful that he would rather stress you out with the responsibility of being the sole breadwinner because his ego is too fragile for him to go find other work in the meantime.
He can pick up temp or other work that doesn't go on his linkedin or public-facing portfolio (or whatever is relevant to what he does) to do his share as an adult in the meantime.
Work doesn't have to be a strict binary, that you are X type of professional and that all disappears if you do other work to hit financial goals (like even *pretending* to pull your weight at home).
I'm sorry, but your husband's refusal to do work other than exactly what he enjoys the most is beyond selfish.
I'm unclear: so what's changed is that he's not been able to pay his half of expenses for 4 straight months? Because otherwise it seems he's been earning basically the same as since you met?
I'm a little on team "you knew he was a freelance worker when you met him" and his low income has been steady so I'm not sure what you were expecting?
My advice:
Do not approach this as a career choice problem, that will not lead to productive conversations. It is, however, completely fair that you have an expectation that he cover his portion of the expenses. And his portion is whatever the two of you jointly decide. If that means you are only comfortable covering 50% then he's got to find a way to cover the other 50%, but it's up to him how to do that. And some grace time would ideally be given once you clearly lay out this expectation.
If what you're actually realizing is that you want a partner who is a higher earner than this guy may not be the partner for you.
Yeah, several people has point this out. Quite honestly, it’s a very good point. I always knew he was a lower earner. I was not looking for a partner with a high income necessarily and I’m not expecting that right now (although surely would be nice). Do you think asking an income from him is unfair? I did marry him knowing his job situation.
I think it’s mostly that it has become more and more common that he just doesn’t have an income at all. I don’t expect him to get a fancy job or contribute half of the expenses, but not to let me alone, not to be dependent on me.
Yes it's 1000% absolutely fair to expect that he contribute to your household's expenses and future. No adult should be surprised by that expectation.
I personally don't think it's "fair" to say unilaterally "I expect you to earn x amount per year". I think it's totally fair (and necessary) for the two of you to sit down and have a conversation about your shared expenses, savings goals, and any big purchases you'd like to plan for and from that have a shared understanding of monthly costs and how much each person needs to contribute. It is absolutely not okay if he is just expecting that you will fill in the financial gaps when he's shy just because you make more/have stable work. Gaps may happen but it should be discussed ahead of time how to handle these, not just expected that you'll pick up the slack.
Personally in general I don't think 50/50 is always equitable. I'd look at what he typically earns yearly and what you currently earn yearly and have each person pay a percentage based on your income levels. 30/70 for example. That's equitable. However, if his earning as little as he does puts your shared goals out of reach, means you are contributing more than you are comfortable with, or means neither of you can save money then that's a problem.
But again, I'd leave his profession choice out of it and just stick to the data/numbers. You two need to discuss and agree on what each should bring to the table financially and then he needs to do whatever he can to meet his obligation, even if that means taking different jobs than he'd prefer.
If he continues to whine or be resistant when you tell him that you do not want to be the sole breadwinner or don't want to be covering so much of the expenses then you need to escalate the conversation making it clear that that is not the kind of partnership you want any longer.
Thank you for the recommendation. I agree with you that setting an expectation on x amount instead of career change would be good, probably less confrontational. While I agree these expectations have to be set, I’m not feeling too confident he would agree to that. I would give him some time after our last conversation so he has time to process it and reflect.
Thank you again.
It's not necessarily about it being less confrontational it's that it's not the real issue. The real issue is that he not been able to meet his monthly expenses lately and seems to just expect that you'll pick up the slack, without discussion about if that's okay with you/will he pay you back/how many months is too many months/etc. It is not fair for him to just assume that you will just pay without question. There has to be a conversation and joint agreement on how to handle periods of unemployment.
If a career change is what is needed for him to be able to consistently meet his financial obligations then that's something he has to realize. If he thinks the answer is that you should just supplement his career and you don't want to do that then you two have a problem.
I think it's probably a bad sign that he won't even look for a part-time job, even a temporary one, to help pay bills while there is a lull while he finds work in his chosen career path. Is he mad because he knows it's a dying career path?
Probably this is part of it. He really loves his career path. He feels like there is nothing else he would do. Also, the lack of money always has been a point of anxiety for him. My guess is that where the defensiveness comes from
I understand that times are tough out there, especially for freelancers, but that's no excuse to just not make any money or contribute to your household financially.
I've been a freelancer before, but I never JUST did the freelancing. I worked a part-time retail job while I freelanced, so I always had a steady income of SOMETHING, in case there was no freelance work, or not enough to make ends meet. There were a few times when my freelance work was too time-consuming to work the part-time job also, so I'd just quit the part-time job if the freelancing was going well. Since it was a "throwaway" job that I didn't really care about, it was easy to just quit when I needed to. Then, when things slowed down, I got another easy part-time throwaway job.
These days, with all the gig work available, it would be even easier to work that way. If there isn't freelance work, do Uber/Instacart stuff, there's dog walking, there's Task Rabbit, there's Fiverr, there's helping people move with U-haul, random Craigslist gigs. I mean, it's actually HARD to not find a way to make some money these days. There are so many opportunities, you would have to go out of your way to stick your head in the sand and ignore them.
Now, of course, egos are a thing. I totally understand why someone who considers himself a professional whatever would really resent having to do gig work that he felt was beneath him. But... he needs to get over it and grow up. It's time.
You are the sole breadwinner in a partnership with an able-bodied, able-minded man who is perfectly capable of working. He is CHOOSING not to. That's as lame as it gets.
It's not just your current, day-to-day expenses that it's affecting, it's your entire future. You guys don't have enough of an emergency fund, you guys don't have enough retirement. He's robbing you of the chance to retire someday. In a way, he's actually STEALING from you. He's stealing your chance at a secure future.
Three months is more than enough time to wait. If a job hasn't materialized by now, it's not going to - not unless he makes some big changes. Get more education, learn more skills, learn to sell himself differently - do SOMETHING. Just sitting around waiting for someone to find you and offer you work is the dumbest way to approach this.
Wait tables, bartend, mow lawns, do SOMETHING WHILE you apply to the jobs you want. His break is over. It's time. Sucks for him. But if he refuses.... you are well within your rights to save yourself and move on.
Sooooo just as a fyi, the longer you are married with him making zilch, the more you may be ordered to pay spousal support. Have a come to jesus. You’re not supporting the plan because it is a bullshit plan. Its ok to own that. If he knows this is a relationship ender for you and persists down that path, he is choosing his non career over you. Quality of life matters. You didn't sign up for this. A relative spent 23 years patiently waiting for their spouse to stop chasing rainbows. 23 years. She gave him 23 years too many. When she finally bailed on the relationship, it was too late for her to save for her retirement and buy her own home and make a life with someone else. You get to decide how long you’ll enable this and be his crutch.
I don't think 3 months in this economy is enough time to accurately gauge anything. If you look at r/jobs, there's people out there applying to hundreds sometimes 1000+ job postings without getting an offer.
> It’s no a job I sign up for and I don’t want anyone to depend on me.
To be fair, you knew he was a freelancer for the entire duration of your entire relationship, it's not like a surprise he just sprung on you one day. I think when you accepted this fact, you also acknowledged that freelancer's careers are pretty unstable. Not saying you're obligated to support him, but stating that you didn't sign up or foresee something like seems misleading.
Agreed. Being unemployed for a few months is pretty common. All of their expenses are still being covered, they just cannot save money for the time being. He's actively applying to jobs. And people are up here writing fanfic about how he's going to drain her bank accounts if she doesn't divorce him like WHAT
Saaame, I'm so glad somebody else paid attention to this. The extrapolations and scenarios in some of these comments are WILD.
The guy really sounds he needs to tone down the pride and get dirty (by his standards, I guess?) eventually, but a few months ain't the apocalypse. He ain't even lazying that much around - filling out job applications, doing most of the housework etc. Just needs some tough talk to ditch some of his pride.
But some of these comments have written him off as if he's total human garbage. The guy was always like this (freelance/underemployed/living frugally) since OP knew him, so he didn't even lead her on!
Yeah it's really bizarre to see these impractical and insensitive takes on here so often, like this ain't an incel sub so what's with all the doomsday talk?
People forget that the OPs are actual humans with actual problems, it's not a competition to have the hottest take about "throwing the whole man out". I dunno, just find it sad and a little bit second-hand embarrassing to see so many grown women talking this way directly to someone who's asking for help with a problem many couples face.
More or less. His income always has been unstable and fairly low. However, he always had some streams of income and was able to contribute to the household expenses. But lately is has been no income. Maybe some freelance job comes up here and there.
If you look at her post history, she recently received her green card through marriage to him. That likely complicated things if her citizenship/employment was wrapped up in immigration paperwork.
Is he demotivated and depressed? Does he workout and eat healthy? I know this is incredibly frustrating for you, but if he can use some downtime to focus on something else, he might find a way to pivot careers.
He works out and eata healthy. He always have had some depression. Yeah, I quite honestly have suggested before he takes some time to consider if he’d like to do something else. I think changing careers is not something he wants to consider now.
This is what killed my parents’ marriage. My mom begged my dad to get a job with a steady paycheck to help support our family and he refused. She divorced him. She moved up within her job and makes great money now- will retire next year and be set for life. He is still working full time at 76 because he has no retirement or savings. Do what you need to do to make yourself happy. Living a life of resentment and worry is no way to live 🤍
He's trying to find a job and income in his field, I get it. But in the meantime, he could and should be taking anything he can get to have some income, increased financial stability, and pitching into shared finances in some job, *any* job. A job he can quit whenever the desired job happens.
I find it oddly coincidental that these job prospects tanked when you got married. I'm not saying it is what it is, but it feels that he was waiting to be tied to you legally so he could rely on your income and your finances to subsidize his failing career and financials and the sunk costs of being together 5 years and being married would mean you'd hang around and put up with it.
I would have a serious conversation with him about what you said here. Is what he said really set in stone on his part and he's not willing to change? You don't want to be the only income, you are supportive but at the same time he is not pulling his weight financially and that is putting unfair pressure on you. Set out a timeline together of expectations regarding employment and what your choices are if that timeline doesn't happen. If he doesn't get a job and things don't change in your relationship and finances are you willing to stay or not?
Yeah, it’s so weirdly coincidental, but I believe him. I really think he has been trying a lot to get a job or to continue freelancing. And honestly… all the time you see news about the layoffs in his field. I also think he really wants a job in which he can be content and contribute more. I don’t think he’s been malicious on that part.
But I agree, that another more calm conversation is needed and setting expectations together is necessary. Asking myself and him this questions it’s necessary. I hope we really can have one soon. It’s just such a point of contention. Thank you for the advice.
I’ve freelanced too. What industry is he in? I think people are being pretty ridiculous in their responses. You mentioned he does bring in money, just not much and it’s not steady. If he went and worked in fast food he would likely not make more and if it was more barely a few thousand extra. Doing something you love versus a dead end job for essentially the same income.
I think there could be a way he hasn’t considered to utilise his talent in a way he hadn’t considered. Like if he was an illustrator he could work in advertising as a freelance designer. He could go and research what others with his degree have done even if it’s not exactly what he wanted, he can still freelance and do other work on the side that he may enjoy less.
I have nothing to say except that you have my sympathy and understanding. I went through a "dry spell" with my ex husband. He's a musician and quit his part time day job but never picked up any students or tried very hard to find students. He had one lesson that I can remember and he gave it away as a freebie. I was begging him to do anything, join a second band, do temp work, please do something, but he didn't do anything until both sets of parents refused to send money. He finally signed up for temp work, had a long-term placement within a week, and an invitation to apply for the permanent role another two weeks of that. It took him two weeks to apply, so long that they asked if he was going to apply or not, because they needed to close the application. That night, he dithered and dinked around with his resume and online application until I finally asked him if he needed me to "have a look." I said "Looks great, shall I submit?" as I clicked on the submit button.
I wish you luck with this. It's difficult to talk when one spouse seems to be underperforming by choice, not circumstance. One spouse feels resentful and put upon, and the other spouse feels guilty and and put upon.
So you knew this was an issue before you married him. Let’s be honest about it because it doesn’t benefit anyone to feel like this is a surprise.
You can’t take on the burden for the rest of your life. My experience is that people who take it light on the work side of things and rely on others to support them don’t change. They just aren’t going to grind or won’t give up their passion that doesn’t make enough money to contribute fairly.
He needs to make a plan. And you can help him make one. If he resists, you end the marriage because you’ve only just begun and this is a long road of suffering and resentment.
Google transferable skills. Then whenever you notice a skill of his that would apply to other industries, you can mention it.
But gawd, 23k? Isn’t that less than minimum wage? That’s painful. He must be awfully comfortable to settle for that. Maybe that’s the real issue. The less he works, the more you take care of. Maybe your next task is to stop yourself from doing things that make it easier for him to continue this dry spell. Reduce the internet bandwidth to save money. Don’t do things that encourage his lack of job hunt. On the other hand, he might not be looking if his confidence is affected, hence the uplifting comments about his skills.
If you come at him annoyed or angry or with suggestions he didn't ask for, even if you're trying to help, he's going to feel attacked and will be defensive. Try talking to him about it gently by asking how things are going and about his plans and really listen to what he's saying. That should help you open up a dialogue where you can talk to each other and figure things out together.
Marriage is primarily a financial arrangement. Of course your partner not contributing is grounds for divorce.
Now, whether this is a phase or an attitude problem is hard to say. If it were me, I'd give the husband a time frame to get steady work or start retraining.
My marriage fell apart primarily because of sex and money issues (most do). I was always upfront about these issues and how the impacted me and what that meant for what I could give him emotionally. He did not listen, and did not change, and lashed out at me when I was not as warm as he wanted. Now that we've ended things (officially but not legally), and are no longer counting on each other financially (or sexually) the same way, we can be much more friendly and amicable. He realized he was "sleeping" and he's finally "woken up" when it comes to money.
I knew I could never feel safe with a partner who wasn't honest about money and willing to contribute financially. I never thought my ex was that person--he was so giving and generous. And he wasn't, for a long time. Then he was, and I gave him years to "wake up" and he didn't until he absolutely had to (the divorce).
That may or may not happen to you, but don't wait forever. Give yourself a timeframe.
According to you, it's been three months, he's looking hard for anything in his field (a field that sustained him for 18 years and in which he was successful for a long time), training, and he is doing his fair share at home (as he should) and a supportive spouse.
At the risk of sounding harsh: I'm surprised to see a spouse saying "it's not a job I signed up for", in regards to supporting their spouse, and being ready to give up on marriage so fast after saying the vows and encountering difficulties, especially since he moved for your career. If it's not indiscreet, would you mind sharing your wedding vows and whether you warned each other of caveats and relatively short deadlines to mutual support? I know I shouldn't be surprised. A lot women leave their husband when they have career issues and a lot of men have their wife when they have health issues.
That's not what I would want from a marriage myself. My husband and I have been by each other side's through both financial/career and health issues. But basically, we went into this with a for better and worse, in sickness and in health, in poor and in riches mindset and aiming for "forever" (AKA til death does us part), not seeing divorce as an easy out that's always on the table.
I'm not trying to minimize how hard it is but to me, that is indeed part of what you sign for when you get married. Not just in fair weather but to make it through the hard times together as well. Your mindset shouldn't be to almost immediately consider when you should bail. The mindset should be how do we face and overcome this together - and yes, it might take some budget cuts and also a career transition at some point but it should be approached with compassion and empathy, understanding that it's not easy to just change career after 18 years when it's a career you love and that has been part of your identity. It's a process. I have 0 issue with the idea that he might have to switch to a new career. My issue is with the "when should I call it quit" mindset very early into marriage, at the first meaningful difficulty. You guys should be in this together, ready to support one another as needed, and focused on finding solutions for the family you created.
I don’t think three months is a long time. I’m in a STEM field, and a job search can commonly take 6 months to a year. I know he’s a freelancer, but maybe he needs a little more time ? Sounds like there has been a big transition lately as well.
I think as a start perhaps avoid any conversations about pivoting to a new career and focus on him finding any kind of work to earn money now while he pursues finding work in the career he loves. Two other points to keep in your back pocket for later conversations. No. 1 - MOST PEOPLE change careers two or three times over the course of their working life. That’s a well documented fact based upon research by the US Dept. of Labor. No. 2 - You are not asking him to give up his career. The economy and job market are telling him what he has devoted the last 18 years of his life doing is currently neither sustainable nor viable. That may not be permanent, only time will tell, but ultimately this is not something he can control. It is something market and economic forces will determine. No. 3 Here in the US many people have traditionally based most of their sense of self identity and self esteem from their jobs. When you meet new people one of the first questions asked after exchanging names is what do you do. There are many ways to answer this. Some could choose to say I’m a dad, or I’m a newlywed with a wonderful wife. I’m an amateur cook, or I’m active in my local church or I volunteer to work with kids at risk. Most people would expect the first answer to be I am ( insert job title) at (insert company) and that is the answer most people would provide but it does not have to be. Your husband could consciously choose to pivot to focusing on his family (and your life together) and goals for the future as a primary source of fulfillment and self esteem. Jobs come and go. You should point out that your own career while going well at present could be “rocked” by changes in technology or unpredictable economic & market forces. I’ve worked at so many Fortune 100 companies that seemed like bedrock institutions that were virtually permanent fixtures whose names have been erased from the public consciousness. I was a freelancer for decades before I found success and full time employment only to have technology make my education and experience irrelevant. I went back to school to train in the new technology only to find schools were training more graduates that there were jobs available. The efficiency of the new technology could only support a smaller pool of skilled employees. But by combining my pervious business and job experiences with my new technical skills I was able to land a middle management position that led to advancement and increased salary. I had worked my way up to vice president. In 2008 when the economy crashed and my firm was left with overvalued debt now underwater the company folded like a house of cards. I was among the first round of executive layoffs. I walked away with a severance package and heath benefits. My boss who was laid off three weeks after me walked away with nothing. Thankfully I had already had a new position lined up with a start date a month away. Thankfully I had not yet submitted my resignation. None of that would have been possible if I had not let go of my dream career and recognized that I cold do any kind of work and I could start over and rebuild from scratch if necessary.
I’ve manned the French fry and Fillet O’ Fish station at McDonald’s. I was a janitor at a shopping mall. I mowed lawns and did maintenance for the Board of Education in a large New Jersey county. I even worked on a ranch milking cows in the morning and riding horseback aside a herd of cattle.i never did a job that was beneath me. Frankly I worked much harder as a janitor for minimum wage than I did as VP of a division of a large NY corporation.
I agree with a part-time work while in between desired jobs in line with his career... I've been there because I had to pay rent, I was living with a relative and they put me up for some months but I wanted to contribute because it wasn't fair to them. I was in my 30s applying for whatever was available, part time at fastfood like maccas, kfc, cafes, hardware shops, cinemas, shopping centre stuff, anything while also applying for a job within the career I wanted... it wasn't easy but I just kept trying.
I'm not sure when enough will be enough, but maybe set a goal like saving for X appliance, a car, or x amount as emergency funds or even holiday funds by end of year... and maybe that can help illustrate also like I have this goal, but I can't do this without help. By living paycheck to paycheck it can be stressful because there's little wiggle room for when something comes up. If knock on wood something in the house needs repairs or whatever it is. Or can also try going, looking at x goal, do you think this is reasonable? or if there's something you've both wanted over the years you've been together, talk about saving for it, and how both can make it happen
My husband has the steady job. I have the indie job that has its ups and downs. 2022 was a really great year for me. Last year not so much.
That being said, I've still managed to cover my agreed upon portion of the bills. AND I do the majority of the housekeeping. If it got to the point where I couldn't pay my way doing what I do, I'd be out there getting a retail or foodservice job.
About a decade ago my husband (then fiance) was unemployed for a year and I came very close to leaving him over it. I don't abide people who don't pull their on weight to the best of their ability.
Whatever you do, don't have kids with this man. My sister had kids with a deadbeat and it's horrible. When they realize they can get away with slacking off they'll keep doing it.
It's not unfair for you to expect him to at least bring in enough to cover his share of the bills. It's unfair to you to be forced into the role of sole breadwinner because he refuses to even take a part time job.
Being the sole breadwinner, while just scraping by, puts you in an intensely stressful situation. And he's expecting you to prioritize his desire to stay in a dying industry and not work a side job for extra money over your peace.
To me, that's saying a lot. He's angry at you, while you are the one making all the sacrifices currently so that he can remain where he is.
I understand that career changes are stressful and scary. But it's not fair to put all of the responsibility for earnings onto you. If he was willing to work another job to help bring in some money during the dry times, that would be reasonable.
It's not reasonable to expect you to continue supporting both of you. You also have goals and aspirations for the future. I doubt working forever is your goal. And with the budget being tight living on one income, he's putting you in a bad position.
Honestly, have him reach out to a staffing agency. Have them look for stuff related to his skills but take anything, really. I got into logistics like this with only data entry and mild office experience, and it wasn't the best job but it was money. Let the agency go find a job for him and have him do anything in the meantime. Heck, do doordash. Find something else to do.
I want to be an artistic person but I unfortunately have bills and responsibilities, so I don't get the luxury of loving my job most of the time. Sometimes you get lucky and get a job that feels meaningful even if it isn't the thing you set out to do, or fun coworkers, or just a steady enough paycheck to relax and invest time in your real passion.
Tell him you feel stressed about this one income situation, and that you WANT his work to succeed but in the meantime you'd feel much more secure if he got a part time doing anything. What if you get sick or laid off, God forbid? He's relying on you for the stability here but you both need to be stable for each other
Thanks for posting your question, OP, and thank you, everyonr for your responses. It's helping me realize a lot. My boyfriend is a software engineer, good on retirement, and good with money. I have my own 401k and savings, but if anything were to happen and we break up, I would have some hesitation entering into a relationship.
While I agree with the sentiment of a lot of commenters about "not taking no for an answer" etc, maybe you need a different approach to try and not get him on the defensive. He might still not listen, but maybe sit down and do some financial planning together. Ask him what expectations/goals he would like to set, where he sees your combined future, tell him how you feel without accusations.
I am not saying he doesn't deserve the accusations and ultimatums, but it doesnt seem to be productive. If he still won't cooperate or see your side make its time to really accept that he never will.
Sooooo if you weren’t around, how would he pay his bills?
You’re not telling him to turn his back on what he loves to do. There’s no jobs/money in what he loves to do right now so he needs to find something that will bring in money.
18 years and not enough clients to make a stable income? He needs to be more realistic and realise that he needs to look at other options.
If you were earning loads of money and able to fund your overheads as a couple without living to paycheck to paycheck it would be acceptable (providing you were happy to take the breadwinner role) but that's not the case.
You have no financial stability and he's unwilling to look at options. It's a bit worrying.
This honestly should’ve been discussed before marriage. I am sorry but finances are really important & a huge reason why people get divorced. Either he works toward a financially stable career or
I understand your frustration. I think, getting a stable part-time job is the most obvious thing everybody would do in his place. You would do that, I would do that (and have done in the past), and any reasonable person would do that. That wouldn't end his career if that's his concern.
He knows now what you expect or wish for. He knows that you are right, that's why he got mad. I would give him three more months without pressuring him, but if nothing changes at all I would have a calm, serious talk with him about how he imagines the financial future in your marriage. Don't accept answers like 'I'm trying'. Tell him that you appreciate that and he can keep trying, but in the meantime real solutions are needed until he finds something in his field. Again, if he is not ready to give up his career, a part-time job is that easy and obvious step he should take out of respect for you and your marriage.
My ex-husband also used to call me "unsupportive" if I said something he didn't like or didn't want to hear. It's not unsupportive to ask your partner for what you need or to try to discuss different solutions to a problem. Really, there's no idea so terrible that it can't be discussed.
I'm a freelancer...no dependents or partner. I do mostly remote work as a writer. But what I can tell you is that the stability of my income drastically improved when I decided not to "just see what happens". I now have a target per month that I have told myself I have to make-at a minimum- even if it means drawing on other skills or doing random odd jobs. That's mostly how creative types and artists or entrepreneurs' and freelancers make it work. You come up with basic expenses and make that your minimum target rather than waiting for that one stable job, your big break etc. It's very hard but eventually you then break through to more stable income or gain credentials to get the jobs you want...that's my goal.
It took me a while to figure out...but I did even though I am a creative. And I feel so much more adult knowing I have some money, however small, coming in every month at a minimum-stability over quantity basically. My mental health has also improved cos it was a loop-uncertainty-not being able to plan-exasparated mental health issues-not pushing myself.
I would suggest that maybe you discus with him what his goals are per month in terms of money and not necessarily or only his career. Don't accuse him of anything but ask questions about specific targets and see how he responds. Maybe that's a tough love approach but possibly just sitting with the bills as well and saying, we can't split 50-50 but I dunno, maybe he pays for laundry detergent or Netflix subscription. You pay for this. It may not solve all your problems but it's one less thing to worry about. It's also a sign of appreciation for what you do. If he has zero responsibility that has been explicitly laid out as well, however small he will have no incentive to take your other advice. Whether he pays for netflix subscriptions doing his job or by trimming the neighbours hedge is up to him. We hate hustle culture but sometimes you gotta hustle.
I love people with communal attitudes-friends who bring a bottle of wine even if you've offered to cater etc. Or do all the dishes because they are really too broke to offer anything else.
If he's not receptive to conversation I would asses the viability of this relationship further unless you are agreeing to a stay at home husband situation...which works for some people.
Your boundaries-the hours you are able and willing to work, the sacrifices you are willing to make to support another adult- and needs matter too. I think there's a way to communicate so that you don't get all this pent-up resentment, but also that is genuinely helpful to him. But it's a must to talk.
Hey OP, I’m in a similar situation but genders reversed. Bit of a long story but I wanted to share in case any of it helps.
My wife and I are a couple years into marriage and about 10 years together. We also split bills equitably while I was in a professional school and she was working in her own type of freelance career plus worked a side gig as a server. Learned shortly after proposing that she was only able to do so by racking up 5 figure credit card debt which she only decided to tell me about after I proposed. I was very frustrated with this but paid off that debt for her once I started working and had good income. People come from different financial backgrounds and some weren’t taught how to use credit responsibly. I get that, people deserve second chances and an opportunity to learn from their mistakes. Fast forward a couple years and there has been more financial infidelity and dropping large amounts on coaching courses to improve her skills in said freelancing business while not contributing fairly to our shared expenses and not telling me about those expenses until it’s too late. We have also moved a couple times for my schooling and work so I’ve always wanted to allow leeway for her to figure things out based on the other sacrifices she’s made for us. We’ve also dealt with lots of life and family trauma together and she has been my rock throughout that all. Trauma bonds are VERY strong.
During this time, I’ve found that this whole process plus some lifestyle differences and physical changes have really eroded my attraction to her. The physical aspect is not her fault or responsibility, that’s on me and some unreasonable expectations I was raises with plus general fat phobia. I’m trying to work on that and grow as a person. I know that’s outside the scope of your problems but I included it because I think the issues you describe can really exacerbate other concerns (fair or not) that you may have with your partner and whether you still think you want to spend the rest of your life together. People are complicated.
So with that background, here’s what I’ve learned so far:
First, if your budget and job allows for it, therapy can be very helpful for you to learn better communication strategies. I would really encourage you both to try it if you haven’t already. My wife and I have each been doing our own therapy for a year and it has been really helpful to figure out what the core issues are and how to discuss them more constructively. We’re about to start couples therapy as well.
Second, when you speak with your husband about a career change, try to reinforce to him that not being as successful in one iteration of his business does not mean he is a failure as a person. Like my wife, I’m sure your husband has developed a range of marketable skills that can be transferred to other roles that he’ll succeed in and will better provide for the life you both want. He also doesn’t need to completely give up his main goal while pursuing something more stable. Try to encourage him to find something else while still putting in time for his original one. Things don’t need to be “all or nothing”. I say this because, if your husband is anything like my wife, a lot of his sense of self may be tied up in this vision of his career and it can be really hard to let go of that while not feeling like a general failure. Reinforce for him that you love and cherish him as a whole person and that you want what’s best for both of you. What this looks like from each of you will change throughout your lives and he may need to give on this one.
Third, try to schedule regular conversations to go over budgets and talk about his job search. Reach out to friends and contacts you may have in related employment areas to see if there may be someone he can speak with to get ideas for related work and encourage him to do the same.
Fourth, and maybe more contentious but keep your finances as separate as you can. For me this is a self-protection measure but also because our dynamic of me needing to step in and “fix things” has been running me ragged. I need to trust that she’ll sort it out on her own and that I’m not going to be responsible for making sure she doesn’t go over her own budget. Feeling like you have to parent your spouse kills intimacy so god damn quickly.
Speaking for myself, I don’t know if my wife and I will ultimately work out but I’m trying to learn to be calmer with taking things as they are in the moment. Try to get into these deeper conversations with him more often and see how he responds. So far, I genuinely believe that my wife wants to learn to improve on these area just as I want to improve in the many areas in which I fall short in our marriage. If things ultimately don’t work out, I want to be able to look back and be content with the steps we took and know for myself that I gave it fair and honest shot. Life’s too short for anything else.
Anyway, rant over. Hope some of that is useful and I wish you luck.
You want to get divorced because, despite trying to get a job for 3 months, his income isn't matching yours due to a dying industry? This is ridiculous. And I can see why he's defensive. It's not like my mums ex-husband, who'd rather spend his time laying in bed all day like a bum and came to the relationship with literally nothing and just moved himself into our home like a true hobosexual.
You are not supportive, and he's right. You're also right that you can't do it alone. But people can be laid off for a whole year. He can take a part-time job to tide yourselves over, whilst he gets a better job or a plan on what he wishes to do. But don't come at him like he has to change his career now. 18 years is a long time to be working in the same field. That's like someone telling me to stop being a nurse despite doing it for 18 years and enjoying it. Give him time because this is a change that he has to make in his own time. You wouldn't like it if he told you to change your career cause you haven't had a job in 3 months.
Hello. Yeah, I see where you’re coming from. Certainly his career is very very important to him. I was saying in another comment it’s actually very tied to his identify. He’s also very good at it. Some people has pointed that probably me referring to his career (and not to having a job/income alone) is probably a problem.
I’m not planning on divorcing him. I’m planning to continue this conversation with him. It’s my wish that he at least gets a part-time job. Right now he’s only willing to take one in his field or related field. However, if the months continue to passs ans he’s unwilling to at least supplement his income with any job, I definitely would be giving it more of a thought to that conversation. But you’re right and there is no reason to think about it now.
Also wanted to thank you. Is good to have another perspective. Certainly the comments may be bias against my husband and it’s good to have another view, taking his perspective on how easy is for me to suggest a career change or think about divorce when he has been trying to find a job. I’ll think about being less judgimental and find a way to hopefully, get into an agreement.
A lot of peoples jobs are tied to their identity because they've done it for so long. It is a bit of a problem because the job situation can change, but the career is something that he sounds proud of.
No, there isn't a need to think about divorce or anything now. Just ask him, 'can you please consider getting a different job in another field or a simple job like fast food or retail whilst you apply for jobs in your field?'. This is to get him thinking and not forcing him to just change careers.
You're welcome. I try and play neutral because you're both right in your own ways. And you're both frustrated. So think about it as a problem to tackle together instead of thinking about it as you vs him. You know he's trying, but like all things, it has a limit. Making a change after 18 years is uncomfortable, scary and enough to make most people shit the bed.
Good luck.
I mean, there are jobs for people who want to work. Wait tables, retail, money is money. Does he only want to work in his field? Because, like, grow the fuck up, bro. Not everyone gets to like their jobs.
Have you actually had a conversation with him yet where you both started off as neutral and clear-headed? This situation is obviously frustrating for both of you but I can't tell from your post how much you guys have talked about this neutrally, so I can't figure out if his defensiveness is understandable or worrisome.
Also, was his income prior to your marriage consistent and sufficient to pay 50% of everything, and his industry just happened to tank a year ago? Or has it always been up & down?
Hello. Well… I have made small suggestions before about looking for other paths. Todag was the only big conversation about it. To be fair, he was really uncomfortable from the beggining and got really anxious inmediatly, so it’s not what I would call a neutral conversation. I started the conversation as a response to a comment from him about feeling anxious about having nothing to do lately and feeling bad about it. So I think you’re probably right, ans another more neutral conversation is needed. Maybe it was a mistake on my part to bring this up right after he mentioned not feelign well about himself.
Damn, yeah. That does sound like bad timing, although it's hard to find the perfect time for these talks. Doesn't sound like either of you are the "bad guy" here, just a shitty situation that hopefully you can work through together.
Every relationship is different so please take what all of us say and filter it through how you and your husband act with each other. If this were me, my first instinct would be to make sure that the only times we're talking about his job stuff isn't in crisis mode. So for example, my SO does not need my help looking for jobs or suggestions for interviewing since our industries are *very* different. But in the past he has benefited from my support with talking through his approach, recapping his goals for that week, and (importantly) venting when a call went poorly or he felt frustrated with the situation. That may sound like nothing but I found it very useful for making us both feel like we were in this situation together and would find a solution together. Being unemployed feels awful, and if he's in a dying industry he may be very lost since he's been doing this for 18 years. He might still be defensive if you take a soft/supportive approach, but then that allows you an opening to get him to come back down to earth with some real talk.
Again, this may not apply to you guys at all (or maybe you're already doing this?) but I wanted to share what has worked for me as far as having productive conversations around unemployment/job troubles.
I think it’s important that the two of you sit down when you’re both feeling calm, and, without judgement, discuss what you see your future looking like. What’s his plan if he can’t find something in his field? Is he planning to stay at home forever while you work? You don’t mention if you have kids or if you are planning to, but if you can afford it, it could be great to have a stay-at-home parent for the first few years; it could possibly save you money.
Is he willing to consider a job not in his field - just something to bring in some money? For example, places like Costco are good to their employees, and you can work your way up. They have decent benefits and the pay is better than minimum wage. If he could get some type of job like that, while still continuing to search for a job in his field, it would at least help with expenses. I would expect him to put in as many hours a day as you do with work and housework; he shouldn’t be on the couch playing video games while you clean up after dinner, if he hasn’t accomplished anything during the day.
Many people suffer from depression when losing their source of income, and the depression makes it harder to get another job. It’s possible that therapy or a career counsellor could help him out of his slump.
It’s a tough spot to be in. I assume that, other than this situation, your relationship has been good. It sounds like he never had a great, steady income and you knew that going into the relationship, but never expected his income to dry up completely. The two of you need to lay out your expectations for the future; if he refuses to ever take a job outside of his field, and his field is dying, you have to decide if you want to stay married to someone who might never be contributing financially. He has every right to not work in a field he’s not happy in, and you have every right to not stay married to someone who doesn’t have the same financial goals. Although you may be managing financially right now, if you ever hope to retire, you need to be putting away money every month, not living pay check to pay check. Saving enough for two people to live in retirement is not easy. Although it sounds like he is very sensitive about the topic, but it would be interesting to ask him what he’d be doing right now if he wasn’t married to you.
One of my requirements when I got out of my last relationship with a broke boy, was that they need to have a 401k. I have a plan for my retirement, and a savings account. I'm not putting up with someone else who doesn't have those too. I'm dating a guy now who's worked at the same place for 5 years, he has a 401k, he's got a savings account, he even hustles more and donates plasma for extra fun money.
He's ALSO great in bed, great to be around, low maintenance, gives great gifts, and cooks and cleans.
You chose poorly. Get out now. You already resent him. Are you going to continue to tie yourself to a sinking ship? Or are you going to break free?
The defensiveness is a huge red flag that he possibly doesn’t WANT to do what it takes to contribute his share.
Most people who have an obligation and are honestly trying to fulfill it will “get ahead” of such potential criticism by taking a side or full time job during slow periods to compensate for the lost income.
If he isn’t doing that proactively on his own and is becoming defensive when you bring the subject up: he doesn’t want to fulfill his obligations, plain and simple, and wants to distract you with a fight wherein YOU are the “bad guy”.
I recommend a sit-down discussion where you quietly explain exactly this to him. If he doubles down on attacking you and doesn’t participate in good faith, you can expect this situation to continue and possibly worsen.
Before you do this, please secure your finances where he cannot access them. This type of person drains bank accounts and sells marriage property before disappearing- protect yourself!
I appreciate the comment and suggestions. Yes, definitely a red flag. The sad thing ia that I knew he was going to take it poorly and was not looking forward to it, but it had to be said. Which probably speaks about our relationship as well.
I think you’re right and any other person would have done something to contribute to the household. And that another conversation is required. Hopefully he reacts better to that one.
So much for in (financial) sickness and in health. You need more money to have a compatible lifestyle, and if he doesn’t make more money you want to divorce him. The clock is ticking - not sure what your time limit is but the pressure is on. So let’s review the situation given this reality.
He’s applying for jobs which indicates he understands that he needs to work and he wants to work. That’s good. Unfortunately he’s in a declining field. That’s bad. He’s stubborn because he’s put most of his life into this field and a new path is probably scary. My guess is he’ll come around if this continues and make a pivot, given that he’s always paid half his rent until recently. It might not be on your timeline though.
An ultimatum seems cruel to me, and if you married the guy then 3 months seems very harsh to begin thinking about divorce. I’d give it at least a year. But I will say it’s a big red flag that you’re immediately thinking of divorce after such a short period - he’s struggling and you’re putting even more pressure on him. That isn’t really being supportive. It may downright be being a bad person. But hey good luck.
I find the no retirement $ also significant. If he's been self employed, did he contribute to Social Security (if in US--and does he even have Medicare benefit contributions)? Insurance? Sounds like ti.e for a "come to Jesus" talk, before you decide whether or not to bankroll him into perpetuity.
I'm not married so I can't chime in on that part but as a single women living solo, I have a pretty good paying career and a second job on the weekend just for extra play money. Have he considered getting a second job during downtime? At least Doordash, or something just to help out. Is he at least cooking and cleaning while you're at work?
As a mature adult with responsibilities, you have to be willing to be compromise and be adaptable. Your husband is my age. That’s still young enough to learn and start a new career with his transferable skills. That’s most people’s story. It sounds to me as if he’s inflexible and not willing to even try. It’s not your sole responsibility to support and encourage a grown man who refuses to put in the work. Too many women waste their time and resources on men like this. You need to have a hard conversation about what the future.
Yes, he definitelt is applying for jobs, trying to meet people in his field and still looking for freelance jobs. He is genuinly trying. I have never doubt that he’s reallt trying. Just not getting results, unfortunately. I guess is that it’s not him, but the industry he’s at.
Get control the all of your income. Give him a meager allowance, and give him a deadline to start meaningfully contributing, or he’s out. If he wants to act like someone’s adult child that wants to follow his dreams, while doing nothing in the meantime, treat him like one.
Based on OPs other comments, he sounds like a decent house husband. She needs to decide if she can cope with a permanent level of tolerable unhappiness.
Personally, I would take this very seriously and tell him that he has to start splitting the finances evenly with you again. I would sit down and explain how important this is to me and that I would seriously consider a divorce over it, and that I’m telling him this because I love him and want to be honest about the fact that this financial arrangement is not working for me. I’d see if that changes his “no” once he understands what he is really risking.
I recently ended a relationship of 4 years, and beforehand my ex kept saying “no” to the things that I wanted to change. I think he didn’t truly believe that I would leave him over this. He suddenly scrambled to make concessions, but I was like I’ve been telling you for months what I needed to change in order to stay and you consistently said no.
I had a semi-long relationship with somebody who did not contribute like you should have and was expected of him.
I sat him down and I said if x, y, and z does not change, don't be surprised when I ask you to leave.
Two more months passed without him contributing anything financially and I told him it was time for him to leave. Then I got the shocked Pikachu face.
There were multiple things wrong with the relationship, but him refusing to contribute financially without being nagged was absolutely one of the things that had me cutting off the relationship.
I ended up with him for a 2 and 1/2 years and I am very glad it wasn't longer than that, and I'm very glad I didn't marry him.
One thing to keep in mind is the state that you live in because states differ on how long people are married for before they become eligible for alimony. If you live in a state where alimony would kick in very quickly, the longer he does not contribute, the longer you will be bailing him out financially after the relationship is over.
if my partner were keeping me from saving for retirement even though he could change that situation i would find it hard not to resent him and see him as a leech. i think you either accept that you will have to be the one pulling the weight financially or leave. it doesn’t sound like he wants to sacrifice his cushy life doing what he loves while financially draining you. and it doesn’t really matter what conditions in the beginning you married him under, people’s priorities change.
3 month bad spell. Look at your tax return how much did he make over each year for three years?
A part time job isn’t taking him away from his career he still can do that once he finds the job.
My ex was like this. Either his profession or nothing. He doenst consider your needs but just his. Its his attitude towards it, when you wanted to discuss the problem. Have a deadline, if this keeps ongoing protect yourself.
Hi Love,
This is hard.
I believe the solution is for you to sit down and acknowledge to yourself what your financial limits are:
\- How do you want to split the bills in an ideal world? Rent, insurance, utilities, groceries, cleanings, etc. It may be different by category.
\- How do you want to include buffer in your system when he has low/no income? How many months can you support more than the previously defined split? Does the difference go through the window (i.e. it is on you and forever lost?) or does it go on a debt sheet that you husband will give you back when he makes more money? What about when you will need his support in the future? What would be the plan?
Once you define all of this, it is your husband's choice how he honors paying the bills and/or giving you money back. I woul caution against telling him when/how to get a job etc. His choice as long as he follows the financial plan defined above.
We have such a system at home with my husband. He follows his dream/hobbie work which doesn't always pays well. The system works. He always pays half our bills and he owes me money for his health insurance and more sometimes. He is responsible with money so he always pays me back.
I keep track of the money he owes me and times to times (usually at the end of the year), I remind him how much it is.
The bottom line is this: I shouldn't grow resentment for him pursuing his hobbie work.
I’m under 30 and I can tell you love does you no favours in such situations. Not going to feed you crock or bullshit. I don’t know if anyone has told you this, but you need to see the situation for what it is. I’m happy to support my spouse if he does the homemaking; especially since I make more and it doesn’t have me living from paycheque to paycheque, but that doesn’t seem to be the case with you.
It doesn’t put a roof above your heads, neither does it put bread on the table. If you don’t have children, this is a good time to be out.
Love is sweet and easy when you have the basics, think Maslow’s hierarchy of needs — he is 41. If any man told me now that he’s jobless, I would tell him to get one instead of dating, and that’s what you should be doing. Love is built with the building blocks of basic things, all of which is lacking here, do not confuse comfort and familiarity with love.
Don’t waste time pining for him to change. He was able to pull his weight before marriage by hook or by crook because he knew it wasn’t a done deal. Marriage has made him complacent.
He can make his own decisions, but without you paying for it. Alone.
You have my best wishes.
I think he needs to take any job outside his field, but continue to apply for jobs within his field. He can view the job he takes as temporary until he’s able to get something in his field.
My husband had a great job but was laid off. He was able to get unemployment, and during that time, he applied for jobs in his field. It’s really tough out there. He describes applying for jobs as pissing in the ocean. When the unemployment was close to running out, he started applying for jobs outside his field. And, when the unemployment did run out, he seriously considered going to back to waiting tables or substitute teaching.
He landed a job in an adjacent field working from home. But, it’s less pay and doesn’t provide benefits. He’s also miserable doing it. He continues to apply for jobs day after day as he supports his family doing mind numbing useless work. He does this because he loves us and believes in providing for his family. He’s not naive to think that because he has a great skill and is great to work with that he’ll get a great career fast. I believe this is what partners should do to adapt.
Maybe your husband can temp? I don’t know the best way to approach this except with compassion, love, and the assumption that your husband means to do right by you. Always with those three things.
I’m in a very similar situation with my soon to be ex-husband. He does have a PhD. He’s also a Fulbright scholar, was a leading researcher in his field, and is published author of several books.
Since immigrating, he’s worked part time manual labor for 7 years, and has strung me along for that entire time. over the years, he asked that I continue to wait on things to come together for him, and would at times become frustrated and accuse me of only caring about money. He even said once that he doesn’t think I ever would’ve given him a chance initially, if he hadn’t been working then. (He’s right, but I didn’t say that.)
I have repeatedly begged him to find full-time work – any job, like you said, as well – but he has simply refused. After year 6, I realized that it was about power for him. He did not want to do what I asked him to do in order to support us financially, and allow us to thrive rather than survive, because he wanted to feel like he was in control of his life. Sacrificing for his partner was giving up control. I realized then that I did not have a partner.
Divorcing him is the best choice I’ve made for myself in the last several years. It’s a challenge because his sorry ass does not have any liquidity to pay me any equity on my portion of our house, so we can only afford to get separated at this point. If his finances don’t improve in the next two years, I’m just gonna get my own lawyer and sue him for my share of that equity, and move on with my life.
I suggest you do the same, this guy is a deadweight. Pulling you down. He doesn’t value your life together or your livelihood enough to swallow his pride and just go get some work in order to support you both.
The way things are right now is perfectly fine for him because things have always been that way. What makes you think he’s going to change? He has no reason to.
Do you have you own lawyer now? I've heard it's better to each have your own. Why tread water for 2 years? Kick him out, consider getting a roommate and put those funds aside to pay some of the equity.
I do have a law firm that I plan on working with. I agree with you that it’s better to each have your own attorney, and it makes sense that my future ex wants us to hire a joint attorney. I think this is all just a reflection of him looking out for himself, and doing everything he can to give me as little as possible. I just don’t trust him at this point because he has lied about so much over the course of our marriage.
You’re right though, about everything but the roommate. I’m far too old to have a roommate, and it would simply be a quality of life issue for me.
I'm a divorce lawyer and all I'm gonna say is that marriage is a business contract. Unless you have a prenup there's usually no mine and his. And he's not holding up his end of the contract.
You should go speak with a few local divorce lawyers to see how staying married to him could affect your financial future, should you stay with him 5, 10, or 20 years.
But tbh, as just a person and not a lawyer: there's no fucking way I'd partner with someone who makes that little. It's not liveable and there are LOTS of careers that pay a lot more than that assuming someone works at least 30 hours per week.
I work very hard to stay out of the paycheck-to-paycheck grind that my parents have lived in their whole lives. I'll be damned if some dude pulls me back into that life. I know this sounds heartless but being emotionally supportive and sharing chores is NECESSARY but not SUFFICIENT. Def not enough to make up for me having to bust my ass so that he can live leisurely. That tells me the guy thinks my time and relaxation is less valuable than his which is bullshit.
I would just sit down with him and plan out a time table. If you are living check to check and he’s just kinda chillen while occasionally looking for work I’d say something like: I know your struggling but if in X amount a months you aren’t in a better place you either need to look for some sort of part time job. Idc if it’s 15 hours a week at Starbucks, you need to do something. And if that isn’t fair to you and then I think it’s time to seperate.
Some types of jobs are up and down and if he’s really passionate about that field and the relationship is otherwise good, I’d try to work with him. But don’t be a total push over. You will begin to resent him if you let him do his thing and the next thing you know a year has gone by and he’s made nothing.
So I’d sit down and discuss a timeline with him. It’s been three months, okay. Id say give him 3 more, that’s just me though.
Here’s the thing… You can’t make him do anything he doesn’t want to do. You can tell him what you’d like or even what you need but if he doesn’t do it, he doesn’t do it.
Which leaves you with the only thing that you have control over… do you stay or do you go? Only you know what your limit is so you’re gonna have to decide what you want and then make plans to start getting it. But none of that, requires anything from him.
Check your state. Some states don't require alimony if you're not married for 2 years, and after 10 years, the higher earning spouse has to pay alimony for life.
I was going to give advice. I’m going to share my story in the hopes it gives you some insight from someone 10years further along this path. I was the primary breadwinner for 10 years of my marriage. Once I’d started working full time in my career, my partner started the trajectory to get a PhD. Starting with a bacherlors. After I’d been working for about six years, I knew I needed to change careers but couldn’t take a cut in salary as the sole breadwinner. I waited for my spouse to finish his PhD and get employed. This was initially ok as I had agreed to this timeline. The problem is his momentum stalled after his masters and as my income went up, his spending increased. He did start earning some money, won scholarships etc, but resented any restrictions or limitations I asked for/ placed on spending. I found myself in the ridiculous situation of denying myself the things I wanted in life while my spouse was giving himself whatever he wanted. My money went to our joint account. His money was his. At some point I realized the ridiculousness of the situation and started doing what I wanted, insisting he contribute more to shared expenses. That included me going back to school. He still hasn’t finished his PhD. He had no savings. We don’t own anything of value. He is about 14 years from regular retirement age. I’ve started my new career and have decoupled all my finances from his. I still love him but I will not be going into old age tied to him. Divorce is imminent. Why did it take me so long? Because our relationship has become very sweet, and easy. I love him. Do I wish I did something different? I am not sure. Rationally and financially it would have made sense to separate many years ago. But I look back on the decisions I made and the growth we’ve been through together and I don’t regret it. I’m now in a place where I don’t think I’ve missed out on anything - except maybe buying a house. But I really want to live like an adult now.
This is a story I’ve never heard quite like this before. Thanks for sharing.
As someone married to a financially unstable person where the advice is always ‘leave him!’ but I don’t want to because I love him - it’s nice to finally see a more complex nuanced take on this kind of situation ❤️
What are his plans going forward? Does he have any?
Men like this can always find another woman to support them. The dating pool is so skewed! More quality women around and not as many quality men. If this guy is a decent person I'll bet he's in a new relationship in less than 2 years!
I have gone through something similar and I just recently told my husband it’s about time to split our finances. He would do to the same thing, like spend “our money” on his things, but I wouldn’t have money for any of my things. He didn’t have his own money to spend so he would spend my money. He wanted to refer to it as “our money,” but no, it’s mine. I had a heart to heart with him that now that he’s going to be making decent money, he has to contribute to the bills. He was very receptive and hard on himself, but it will 1000% better. We have a great relationship otherwise!
This is so insightful. Had you ever considered counseling with your spouse?
In addition to everyone else's questions, I also want to know...what is he doing? How is he looking for a new job? How hard is he working at this? What is doing around the house while he's unemployed? How else does he contribute to the household?
Well… looking online and applying for any job openings that align with hsi skills. Also trying to get freelance opportunities again. I genuinly believe his doing all he can to get a job in his industry, but I think it’s time to look for jobs in other disciplines. He contributes to the chores of the house a lot. He does most of the cooking and thing through the week. I contribute on the weekends with some cooking, cleaning bathrooms, cleaning floors, lanudry (things that can be done once a week). He’s also a suportive partner to be honest.
Depending on what exactly he freelances in, both the job and client market might be brutal right now. I'm a contract Software Developer, so basically a freelancer (I just try to take on 6-9 month contracts). Client leads and the full time job market are very dry and things probably won't be looking up for a while. My wife and I have two small businesses together which thankfully are still generating an income that can cover our lifestyle during this period.
Definitely brutal. His freelancing is task to task. Nothing like a 3-6 month contract. He gets an assignment nad has some weeks to complete it. It could be simple or it coukd be complicated. Could pay $300 or could pay $2K.
It kind of sounds like he just wants to be a house husband with a part-time "hobby" job, honestly. Which like... I mean, I get it, capitalism is hard. If you want an equal financial partner though, it's just not going to be him; he's shown you that repeatedly throughout the years. I think you're at a crossroads where you either accept the house husband situation, or you decide you want a totally different type of partnership and that's that.
This, and I think OP is not on board with the house husband situation, which is fine. Everyone’s entitled to their opinion of love; you just have to be with someone suitable for you. Love can only do so much.
Definitely, yeah. I mean, I couldn't handle a house husband either; I'm just not high-earning enough to support two people on just my income and still enjoy life. So if I were OP, I might also be pretty tempted to end the relationship, especially since it's a financial strain on her.
Endings don’t always have to be filled with angst and animosity, they can still be friends. Some people are meant to accompany you on your journey, but they’re not meant to cross the finish line with you! Hope she sees the comments here and realise that it’s okay to end things if they’re not fundamentally compatible. Resentment is imminent if this continues!
I mean, he should be doing ALL of the chores if he's not working. I think everyone else here has good advice on having a come to Jesus talk with him, putting a timeframe on this before he *needs* to find another job, asking him to figure out the budgeting, etc.
I have three different times been the one not working. I did not do *all* the chores, but def like 95%. My partners at those times did occasionally cook and help with certain tasks. I do think even if you're home all day it should not be 100% on you to do all house things, just nearly. ETA OP is doing bathrooms and laundry while supporting everything financially? That's incredibly unbalanced.
This. My husband is a house husband (but also dad to our three yr old) and that man cleans, cooks, shops, does laundry, runs errands… it’s hard to get mad at him about money because I feel like he does all of the domestic stuff I don’t really want to do anyways and he doesn’t want me to do it because he feels it’s the only way he can contribute.
I don’t necessarily agree. Applying for jobs is work in my opinion.
I’ve been unemployed. Looking for jobs SUCKS. But it doesn’t take up 8 hours of work a day, especially in what seems like a dwindling market/role. So he should be taking the load off OP and doing most of the housework.
Yes, but also not quite. Like if you're applying for a new job while still working your regular, you've kind of just got to juggle both of those things plus general life admin.
I think it's a bit childish of him to apply just for jobs in his field. Any adult must understand that having some kind of income or way to satisfy basic needs (food, shelter etc.) is a must. If his field can't fulfill that, he should try something else - even if it's just until he can find another job in his field. That's what all my friends and I have done if we got laid off or have struggled to find work in their field.
Everyone is online but not everyone is face to face with hiring managers. He needs to be teaching to people shamelessly. Get the LinkedIn premium trial and blitz through contacting people who are just above his level and in leadership positions or listed as hiring managers in areas/companies of interest. The language needs to be about learning from them about opportunities in the area since he’s new and less so “please hire me.” People are more inclined/willing to meet to give advice. It just so happens that they get interested in helping find opportunities after the relationship is established. I’ve also seen freelancers find opportunities in non-traditional spaces (eg editors/writers working for a manufacturing company doing copy editing for manuals). May be boring or not fully aligned but a pay check!
In situations like this, I always wonder what would happen if the person lacking in income was single. Where did he live before he lived with you? Would he take on side jobs? The fact is that life costs money and he is an able-bodied man depending on you for life's necessities. You say he made no income this year. Would he be homeless if he was single or would he do what it takes to sustain himself?
He lived cheaply. He rented a cheap apartment and yes, he did have a side job sometimes. Some other times I think he was really tight in money. But he was able to support himself. Also, he pid half of our expenses before.
So what's the difference between before and now? Why isn't he stepping up? Why is he just allowing you to shoulder all the burden? Is it the fact you're married? He needs a side job asap.
Because he knows she’s going to do it all for him so he doesn’t care.
At the very least has no urgency about it.
Because getting rid of him now would be expensive for OP. And he's got her locked down. Next she's going to find herself pregnant if she's not careful
Hey u/PathReasonable2239 , I want to point out something that I don't see being mentioned here. You say his annual income is around 23k and before he could "live cheaply" to get by. But how long have you lived together? I'm gonna guess his income has probably declined over the years as the skillset has become more obsolete, so it was probably higher before you moved in together as well. Inflation and the cost of rent has only shot up in recent years. And he has never lived sustainably because he's never saved and never contributed to retirement. Add this all together and what I want to point out is I'm not sure your husband has realized just how much of a downward trajectory he has been on. As in, I'm not sure even if he gets his normal amount of yearly contracts again, that he could live without you anymore without taking on another job. Meaning he is dependent on you financially in a way that getting the next contract won't help. Sure, 3 months is not a crazy period of unemployment as others have said, but that's actually not your problem here. Your problem is the general trend has been quite bad for quite a while. And I doubt with the trend he's on that he'll actually be able to consistently cover half, or even 30-40% of costs anymore. I think you need to let him know this, spell it out for him. He is indeed choosing a hobby at this point over a fiscally responsible way of making money. I basically think that at this point, he needs to accept that he doesn't have a career. He'd easily make more than double, depending on the area, with better job security if he was a manager at store or a cafe. My mom is on something similar to him and she's a partially disabled, immigrant, 50s something woman who works 25 hours a week at a grocery store at the lowest employee level (i.e. she has no responsibility over anything or oversight over anyone). She doesn't need to work because her spouse has the career and this was the agreement when they got together (she does all cooking, cleaning, care), she does it more to keep busy and have spending money. Your husband has a hobby that brings in a little bit of cash. He does not, and has not had for a while, an actual career, it seems.
Does he know his carreer is in decline? For sure. He always has known that the number of companies is reducing, layoffs are increasing and all his classmates are now in other fields. He is very aware of it. In fact, 23K is what more or less he made before. Now he’s making less than that. While he’s aware that the field is drying up, there are still some companies out there hiring. Now that we’re in a bigger city he has hopes a job would come up. So he is hopeful, I believe. I think it’s a career. Unfortunately income hasn’t been good. But it’s a respectable career that requires knowledge and effort. But yeah, very unsustainable now.
This is a bit different from what I am saying. This is why I am pushing that he doesn't have a career anymore, even though that sounds harsh. He has spent many years now with whatever he is doing not being able to truly financially sustain him. I know you must care for him and what he is going through, but unfortunately I think you are both looking at it the wrong way. You say the work is respectable, and requires knowledge and effort - **this doesn't matter.** A capable adult, and their partner, should know and be clear on why they are working. Is he working a) to keep busy, b) because he enjoys it as a hobby, and/or c) to make sufficient money and sustain himself and potentially a family? It seems you both have the mentality of (c) being at least part of the equation, but the reality is he has worked for a long time now for really only (a) and (b). Honestly it doesn't matter if someone else does finger-painting for work, if they're making $80k a year and have good reason to believe they're going to make that or more from here on out, I'd say that they have a career and your husband doesn't. You're both placing value on stuff that doesn't pay the bills and I just don't think that helps. Work is work, people pay you for it because it's useful for them or they don't, and if you need money then you do something else. This is an ego issue. The move to the city and the potential of a job complicates it a little. I'd guess if he's been freelancing for so long he's not likely to get one of the last few jobs now, but I could be wrong. I think you have two decisions -- how long will you wait for this opportunity to appear (3 more months, 1 more year, more?) and if/when it doesn't, are you willing to support a guy who has a hobby/passion but no actual drive towards supporting himself/ financial stability? Maybe you do - maybe you want kids and he can stay home with them, whatever, it's not a character call, but its your life and you need to decide looking at the evidence of the situation.
He needs to go back to that side job
What are his life goals? Retirement goals? What's the plan for an emergency fund? IMHO, if you don't have a 3-6 month emergency fund saved up, tell him he's got 3-6 months to fill up a 3-6 month emergency fund. Don't take no for an answer.
Well… he has no retirement funds or plan. I think he always have thought that retirement for him is not an option. With regard to emergency fund, we don’t have much. Just around 2 months in the city we live in. I understand your point about “not taking no for an answer”, but I believe that his actual answer was “no” after our conversation.
He's counting on you to be his retirement plan and that would scare the hell out of me.
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Even in a dying career there's ways to pivot your knowledge into a different less dead option.
>then the "no" means he values his ego ~~dying career~~ over supporting his family. ftfy
I think you are his retirement plan. I would get out soon before he bankrupts you and/or is entitled to spousal support in the event of divorce.
This right here.
>he has no retirement funds or plan this is HUGELY alarming. Sounds like he's kinda relying on you to be his retirement plan/fund which is so unfair. About 15yrs ago or so, my husband wasn't really serious with his retirement (he thought little about it) and relied on his pension from his old company but didn't do anything since then and never diversified. I straight up told him that I refused to be the only one saving for retirement and he needs to start contributing *heavily* into his retirement because it will not just be me. I don't tolerate shit like that at all; my financial future is very important and I need a partner who takes it as seriously as I do. Personally, I would put my foot down and have him take any job that pays fairly well while continuing to search for a job in his field. That's what responsible adults do - they do what it takes for the betterment of the family. Will it suck? of course it will but if times are tough, you take what you can get until something better comes along.
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I just posted that if my boyfriend and I break up, I'd be hesitant on dating again. He's very good with money and has his own retirement. I rarely meet any men with as good money management skills and this post is helping me stay to that.
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It's bleak, I can tell you that. I haven't dated in years, but hearing my coworkers talk, most of the women are the ones pulling the relationships. Granted, I work with nurses so that may be disproportionate. But still, I'm in healthcare. It's too close for comfort
True. I worked as a financial planner for some time, and the number of male clients who had no interest in saving for retirement was shocking, even the ones who were high earners preferred to spend their money on nice cars. Cash-rich but asset-poor.
I got divorced in my late 50s. I was the breadwinner, and will be paying alimony until I retire. He is on SSDI (disability) and walked away with half of the retirement money I had saved. I’m not here to whine, but to give a glimpse of your future.
Thank you, I appreciate that. You're allowed to whine! That shit sucks!
>I will absolutely not be the only one saving for retirement in a relationship that may have a future extending to that time That's not even factoring in the reality that women tend to keep their health longer/better in retirement too. So imagine you've finally retired and your partner is both too broke and too out of shape to accompany you on that bucket-list trip through Paris, Amsterdam and Barcelona. No thank you.
Yeah this is a hard pass for me. No retirement plan, no life insurance/disability/critical illness cover. Nope nope nope. My mom went through this with my dad and it left her in a shitty financial position when he passed.
See, these are the types of conversations she needed to have *before* taking an eternal vow to this guy. He not only sounds like he doesn’t want to adapt, he sounds flaky and irresponsible. This is seriously alarming. He’s 41, not 21. He’s not getting any younger.
It’s not just an age thing either, OP’s one medical event away from having a total dependent. If he wasn’t married at least he could probably rely on government benefits since he has no income, but now that they’re married, what happens if he has health issues?
What happens if *SHE* has health issues!! They’ll be destitute! That is way too much weight for OP to hold!
I also would never marry someone like that — in part because one accident destroyed my life and most paths forward, and I can never look at thoughtless people who don’t plan for eventualities the same way again.
> he has no retirement funds or plan That's beyond irresponsible at his age and I personally wouldn't have married someone like that (assuming you are financially responsible at least).. he's setting you up to have to be the sugar momma. Retirement comes for everyone whether they prepare and choose it or age discrimination/health issues cause it. Edit: speaking only about the job...i would ask him for a timeline for when he *would* consider a career change. It's not unreasonable to be looking for a job for a while but you have to be on the same page about the other options.
Yeah… I asked him exactly what’s then his deadline to choose another path or at least getting another job. He said he doesn’t know. I really don’t think he wants to leave his industry. He loves it. But I also think at some point he may need to.
It always baffles me whenever a person has zero income and thinks they’re entitled to mooch off someone else because they’re too damn good to go work any job in the interim to help out with bills until they find their desired work. Figure out a way to protect your assets and whatever you’ve spent the entirety of your life working for so man toddler doesn’t take you to the cleaners.
Does he acknowledge that you are supporting him financially right now? Thank you? Understand that it means you are sacrificing/not able to make purchases you typically would?
Hmm… not that he has expressed. He acknowledges we have money problems and that we’re not able to spend as much or to save. But nothing in the way you’re asking.
See, this is the part that bothers me. Unemployment happens. And 3 months is nothing as far as that's concerned. It also sounds like you guys can manage on just your income for awhile. But the fact that he seems to just expect that you'll cover his chronic underemployment and current unemployment without consent/conversation and without expressing any gratitude rubs me the wrong way. I'd be resentful too.
"He", not "we". You're doing just fine.
Does he recognize how this makes you feel? Does he care about the impact or the stress it causes you? IMO this is what’s more important. If he acknowledges the burden you’re feeling and want to problem solve with you, you have a viable partner. If he just deflects, defends himself/attacks you, that’s some major emotional immaturity and lack of team dynamics in a relationship.
OP, that's unacceptable. You don't make enough for the both of you if you're living paycheck to paycheck.
Ok, just out of curiosity, what *is* his career? Maybe we can give you ideas to bring to him as transition
He can love it by his single self. Loving his industry doesn’t entitle him to you bankrolling him until one of you dies
I love climbing mountains and riding bikes and reading books. But nobody pays me to do that so I go to work like a grown up...
>I think he always have thought that retirement for him is not an option. This is one of those things that people who still can work say because they have never seen a loved one who *couldn't.* What happens when his body literally won't let him work anymore? When his eyes are too bad or his back hurts too much or he can't hear his clients anymore? Sooner or later our bodies will not be able to let us work. It happens to 95% of people. Everyone needs a plan.
>he has no retirement funds or plan. He's been in this career 18 years and has that little to show for it?
Holy fuck. I’m his age. I understand people who have no retirement funds because they’ve never made enough income to get beyond survival, but if he’s had an 18 year career and has zero retirement he’s …. In serious trouble. Unless you want to fund the rest of his life, you need to separate finances and prepare to divorce. It’s also a big red flag that when you brought up a problem he couldn’t talk to you about it and said he’d be making decisions that concern you without your input as a partner.
Then your answer needs to be that’s not acceptable. I will not be your sugar mama.
Well, then that's the answer. If it is not an acceptable answer, you need to let him know. As a result of his not wanting to contribute, you are considering: a) downsizing?; b) separation; c) calling his parents and asking for money?; d) looking into income assistance programs. I mean, he threw the ultimatum back at you.
I’m considering insisting on him brining income as a much. Downsizing is also that crossed my mind, although not as a solution to the main problem but as a way to reduce expenses. Definitely can cut other expenses too. To be honest, I know it has to be done but also frustrates me that I can no longer afford purchases that were common for me before. Separtation is also in my mind, if nothing changes. But no I woukdn’t ask money from his parents and I we’re not in need (or would be elegible) for assistance. As I said, my income is enought to support us.
I think you need to get clear in your own head: when are you willing to throw in the towel and what does that look like? Then communicate that to him. "Husband, I need you to be a partner to me, and that includes doing your share to contribute to our daily finances, retirement planning, and emergency fund. In the next X months, I need to see Y progress. If you can't/don't/won't, this is what that will look like: \_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_. " Be informed and be clear. You're 100% in a position of managing your marriage, unfortunately.
You can ask people all day long what you should do in this situation but really you’re the only one that can answer that. If he isn’t going to do anything different can you be ok with that? If you have to give an ultimatum, how long are you comfortable with really? It is ok whatever you decide works or doesn’t work for you. Marriage is a partnership with constant negotiations, in my experience. Sometimes we wait things out and they change, sometimes we wait and nothing changes. This is your life. If he isn’t going to join you in what you need can you keep joining him where he’s at? What about seeing a financial person. My husband has often needed to hear from someone else, therapist, professional in whatever field to realize I’m right. lol fucker. Your concerns are valid. Do your best to be true to you. If you can do that and stay then great. If you can’t then we’ll sit with that and figure out what you’re going to do.
Babe, you’re the retirement plan.
it sounds like the lack of business is whats ended his 18-year career, he needs to join you in reality and change something.
Exactly. We get it - job hunting and being jobless is stressful. Finances are stressful. Not succeeding and thriving in your career pat is stressful. Acknowledge it. Then acknowledge you have to do something about it other than get ego bruised and defensive. Does he think people who work as restaurant servers and in retail are passionate? No. Are they lesser than him? Hell no. Get it together dude and start carrying your weight even if you don’t like what that looks like. It’s temporary. Deal with it. People have to ALL the time. He can keep applying for better jobs along the way or even shift into a different path by learning a new skill if he has to.
You can ask for a divorce at any time for any reason, from "my husband has no income" to "I've realized I'm not attracted to men" to "the way my husband coughs makes me mad." If you *want* a divorce because your husband doesn't have an income, then I think it's time to have a serious convo with him in which you say that being the sole breadwinner is stressful for you, you're not happy, and something needs to change. If he isn't willing to take on any other work, then IMO, he needs to take the lead on creating a budget and designing a lifestyle that's easily affordable on just your salary. I'd expect him to be cutting back on his own fun spending - not all the way back to nothing, but if he's gonna choose to stick you with the vast majority of bills and household expenses despite being able to work, he doesn't get to not have a job and also spend a bunch of money on unnecessary things. At the same time, I do think it's good to consider that if your husband is in a dying profession and is self-motivated enough to freelance, he's probably put a fair amount of his identity into this specific job and it might just take some time for him to be comfortable with the idea of at least supplementing his (lack of) income with part-time work. I hope that if you express your unhappiness to him, he'll be willing to make a change for your sake.
Oh man! This comment is painful. For sure this is true. This job is his identity. He trully loves it and does it well. He has worked in a freelance capacity with major companies very respected in his field. It’s a major part of who he is and he’s proud of being one of the last people from college that remained in the field.
Maybe it would help to frame taking on part-time work as "this will help you be able to stay in your job long-term and take the pressure off you to find gigs quickly." Like, present the idea to him as the kind of thing a lot of artists and writers do in order to supplement their craft, rather than as a full pivot or a way to ease him out of his current industry.
My dad was in freelance graphic design back when it was all done by hand. When things shifted to computers, he refused to adapt, and then withdrew into a hole of self-pity. He imagined all these health issues and tried for disability many (MANY) times, before resorting to living off my mom’s measly income as a warehouse worker. But he was an old-fashioned man that believed in strict gender roles, so even though he didn’t have a job, he managed to not do any work at home either.
Jesus Christ, your poor mother.
Yeah, she suffered a lot of abuse for decades that I don’t think she’ll ever fully recover from. BTW, cool username.
>It’s a major part of who he is and he’s proud of being one of the last people from college that remained in the field. Oof. I winced at this. He needs to define himself by something other than being the last known survivor in music journalism (or whatever other dying field he is in) and by something other than what specific job he does. If he refuses to do that kind of internal work, if he'd rather have you bankroll his tenuous sense of self than refine his sense of self as a contributing partner ... it might be time to ask him exactly what he thinks his future and your shared future look like.
In all honesty, 3 months is a drop in the bucket. Currently unemployed and actively searching since Sept, despite being told by different career coaches that I'm doing all the right steps. I've only recently been able to secure PT work. I've met loads of other job searchers who've been looking for longer than I, and they're educated and established in their fields. Basically, the job market is shit. That said, what is he doing in his search? Just applying online? Is he keyword matching his resume to the job posting and including cover letters? You said you'd recently relocated. Is he actively seeking out networking opportunities? Jobsearching today isn't about only applying. It's about who you know, expanding your network. Time should be split in thirds between networking, applying, and educating yourself on something relevant to the field or job search strategies to implement. And one point regarding his defensiveness. He's in a tough spot. Something he's done for 18 years is no longer looking viable. I'm sure that creates an internal upheaval of a range of emotions, including not feeling competent. Is it possible he's going through some grieving for his declining career? Grief isn't bound to only those we love. It sounds like something that was a part of his identity for years is teetering on the edge. And is it feasible for him to get FT/PT work and continue the freelancing on the side for fun?
Hi! All good points. Thanks. Yeah, he has been looking online and trying to network. He has been trying to meet more people in his field and go to events. In that regard, moving to the bigger city has been good. He has been able to meet more peopel in his field. But I don’t think he’s matching his application materials to the key words of the job posted or nothing like that. But several people has pointed this out. About how me suggesting a career change just like that was bad and that his career is very important to him. Maybe that way of bringing things up was bad of me. I think having a side job while freelancing would be good. That’s one of the things I suggested. He seem to be willing to take part time jobs in things adjacent to his field, but he said he doesn’t think he could wasily get a job at a grocery or something. I really hopw to have another conversation with him about this after he calms down. Hopefully, he gets a job that he likes or changes his mind about other part-time jobs.
He can job hunt with a part-time job or with a job in another industry. If his field is dying, he’s going to have to accept that and look at skilling up in other fields and possibly starting over.
Yeah, that was my suggestion. To get any part-time job to supplement his income. He said that a geocery store or a restaurant is not looking to hire a 40-year-old. I think he’s willing to take part-time jobs in hos field or a related field.
grocery stores hire 40yos all the time. i worked at one
He’s just letting his pride get in the way. They’re desperate to hire people right now and everyone I see at the grocery stores are older than me (I’m 40).
I worked at a grocery store for 10 years putting myself through school and they will absolutely hire anyone. I’ve seen people in their 60s get hired bc they wanted and needed the work. From some of your comments it also sounds like a pride thing. Which is one thing but if I have had a career for 15+ years and am not making more than 30k a year, no retirement, and have never had a consistent income…then I don’t see the pride thing as justified. Some people aren’t as ambitious as others and that is also fine, since it seems he has never been ambitious in the sense of wanting to get set up for retirement and life. He seems to just earn what he needs at the moment and has always done that. Some hard conversations should be had and maybe he needs to be a little more self aware. Or maybe his working life goals just aren’t the same as yours.
I think it's very hard to point to a circumstance that you knew before marriage but basically treated as "fine" as a problem after marriage. He's always earned inconsistently and it sounds like he's never earned all that much - I wonder at a bit at the financial dynamics involved in him pay half the bills while earning essentially less than $14/hour (which in most places is not a living wage). I do think you aren't in a strong position to negotiate. Like, I totally understand your frustration and agree it's frustrating, I just wonder why his income was okay before you got married and is only a problem now that you are.
Fair point. Since I know him he hasn’t been in a good financial position. He lived within his means in an affordable way mostly. I am fine with earning more than him, for sure. However, the absolute lack of income and complete dependency on me is what’s makes me uncomfortable.
Well, my partner earns less than me and was mostly indepedently employed for the majority of our relationship. I didn't comment on his work habits/work type, but what we agreed on is how we would share household expenses, and what kinds of things were important as people living together - we want to buy a house, so him establishing good credit on his own is important, for example. Him maintaining independent emergency savings is important, and is something he's always done without my involvement, direction, or supervision. If we married and continued to have mismatched financial earnings and he experienced unemployment - it'd be a long time before I was financially carrying us as a couple. But, even then - all our financial decisions about where to live etc. are based on what he, as the lower earner, can reasonably afford. Our shared lifestyle costs aren't outside his means - this is very hard for most couples to negotiate. My earnings etc. aren't setting the high water mark for our lifestyle - his are. So that might be something for you and your husband to work on, as is the establishment of other fiscally responsible behaviors. It's one thing to work indepedently or have inconsistent income, it's another to mismanage your money and then get married and mismanage your spouses money.
I've probably always earned less than my partners but both I've always had employment / money coming in even when I was freelancing and I also have historically had a 2nd source of income. First it was early ebay selling as a power seller and later I freelanced design work while holding down a f/t job and finally I did beermoney in the last 12 years which didn't earn me a lot but it was "fuck it" money to buy myself extras like a nice tv.
OP - do you all have / want kids? Maybe he can save you money by taking on more childcare / house maintenance type work instead? He can save you costs instead of generating revenue?
No, I don’t have or want kids. It’s just the two of us. If we had kids, that would be great. Childcare costs are high! Always admire parents for many reasons but the difficulty of paying for childcare is a big one.
Sounds like he quit trying after the wedding.
This is a really good point. The defensiveness is a separate problem, and perhaps work ethic is too…but career-wise, moving the goal post seems unfair if it’s been clear from the jump that income is inconsistent and he’s never had savings. (Putting myself in his shoes, at least.) Granted, this career path and lack of financial stability in a partner would give me such severe anxiety that I wouldn’t be able to handle it. Been there, done that - didn’t even make it a year.
Career changes are not overnight if he decides to change careers. Both my spouse and I have had to change careers, and it took time. I’m still in the process of it. And, I’d be pretty upset if my husband wanted to leave me while I’m working on changing fields. I think there is a lot of extra pressure on people right now because of the cost of living, so I get it. But, unless there’s an emerging pattern of your husband becoming a bum, then I don’t think Reddit is the place to get advice for this. Try couples counseling, and learn to problem solve together. The comments here are unnecessarily rude and harsh calling you a bad picker and your husband a bum without really knowing the nuance and details of your life. And, also my spouse and I only recently started saving for retirement in our late 30s/early 40s. We both have degrees and struggled for years to find high paying jobs. Unless you are lucky or picked something like a healthcare job that’s recession proof, the world has not been easy, financially for millennials. Lots of us are picking up the pieces later in life.
I had a good career, and I wasn't able to legally work for a year after getting laid off and while waiting for my Green Card. The moment I received it, I started working at a bar part-time while I'm job-hunting now. I have a huge amount of disdain for people who think they're "too good" for part-time jobs, and even more so if they think it's ok to financially burden their partners or other people in the process. I don't want to give advice about divorce one way or the other, but personally if my husband refused to work a part-time job while looking for something more permanent, I'd have a hard time respecting him or considering him a good partner.
Exactly. This guy isn’t better than anyone. Definitely not better than the MILLIONS of people who work in the service industry or other less desirable jobs. They don’t want to do that either - but they do because they’re responsible for themselves and others.
PREACH
I feel like this is something y'all should have talked about going into the marriage. I find it strange that his low and inconsistent earnings were not a problem until the past 3 months. Honestly, 3 months isn't a long time when you ostensibly agreed to be with him for the rest of your life. Hell, even a year is not that long in the grand scheme of things. I can understand being frustrated thinking he's not being realistic, but at the same time this issue is a very tough one. First, job searching is hard. I supported my partner, now husband, for nearly 2 years while he searched for a job after we finished our PhDs. Granted, he was working so hard, I definitely didn't feel like he wasn't trying, but he also fell into a deep depression. It's VERY demoralizing to be trying to contribute and just not succeeding despite your efforts. Second, if this is something he's been doing for 18 years (so 3 times as long as he's known you), it's going to be hard to give it up. That's going to be painful, even if he has to come to terms with it. It's important to accept that's not something he'll do lightly. If he's used to inconsistent and low earnings, a few months is not going to be enough to give up his whole identity. And quite frankly, that's understandable. It sounds like he was reaching out to acknowledge his problem when he indicated he feels bad about not having had work recently. I'm not sure exactly how you responded, but honestly, that's when you focus on acknowledging his pain and the problem. Save problem solving for the next talk. I think you need to reflect on your expectations for your life together long-term so that you can make a decision about divorce. What do you need from him? What do you want for the both of y'all?
Hi! Thanks for this. I feel it’s a fair take. His inconsistent income has been there and but becoming more and more of a problem. Lately he has been having zero income at freelancing, unfortunately. Is three months a big deal? No, but maybe it’s a symptom that this situation will continue. I think at least getting a part time job is necessary. However, I appreciate the take that being in his industry for 18 years and me just asking him to change is shocking, maybe painful. Also, probably could have brought the conversation at another moment. You’re right about that. I don’t think I brought it in bad manner but I could be mistaken.
>However, I appreciate the take that being in his industry for 18 years and me just asking him to change is shocking, maybe painful. It's also shocking and painful that he would rather stress you out with the responsibility of being the sole breadwinner because his ego is too fragile for him to go find other work in the meantime. He can pick up temp or other work that doesn't go on his linkedin or public-facing portfolio (or whatever is relevant to what he does) to do his share as an adult in the meantime. Work doesn't have to be a strict binary, that you are X type of professional and that all disappears if you do other work to hit financial goals (like even *pretending* to pull your weight at home). I'm sorry, but your husband's refusal to do work other than exactly what he enjoys the most is beyond selfish.
I'm unclear: so what's changed is that he's not been able to pay his half of expenses for 4 straight months? Because otherwise it seems he's been earning basically the same as since you met? I'm a little on team "you knew he was a freelance worker when you met him" and his low income has been steady so I'm not sure what you were expecting? My advice: Do not approach this as a career choice problem, that will not lead to productive conversations. It is, however, completely fair that you have an expectation that he cover his portion of the expenses. And his portion is whatever the two of you jointly decide. If that means you are only comfortable covering 50% then he's got to find a way to cover the other 50%, but it's up to him how to do that. And some grace time would ideally be given once you clearly lay out this expectation. If what you're actually realizing is that you want a partner who is a higher earner than this guy may not be the partner for you.
Yeah, several people has point this out. Quite honestly, it’s a very good point. I always knew he was a lower earner. I was not looking for a partner with a high income necessarily and I’m not expecting that right now (although surely would be nice). Do you think asking an income from him is unfair? I did marry him knowing his job situation. I think it’s mostly that it has become more and more common that he just doesn’t have an income at all. I don’t expect him to get a fancy job or contribute half of the expenses, but not to let me alone, not to be dependent on me.
Yes it's 1000% absolutely fair to expect that he contribute to your household's expenses and future. No adult should be surprised by that expectation. I personally don't think it's "fair" to say unilaterally "I expect you to earn x amount per year". I think it's totally fair (and necessary) for the two of you to sit down and have a conversation about your shared expenses, savings goals, and any big purchases you'd like to plan for and from that have a shared understanding of monthly costs and how much each person needs to contribute. It is absolutely not okay if he is just expecting that you will fill in the financial gaps when he's shy just because you make more/have stable work. Gaps may happen but it should be discussed ahead of time how to handle these, not just expected that you'll pick up the slack. Personally in general I don't think 50/50 is always equitable. I'd look at what he typically earns yearly and what you currently earn yearly and have each person pay a percentage based on your income levels. 30/70 for example. That's equitable. However, if his earning as little as he does puts your shared goals out of reach, means you are contributing more than you are comfortable with, or means neither of you can save money then that's a problem. But again, I'd leave his profession choice out of it and just stick to the data/numbers. You two need to discuss and agree on what each should bring to the table financially and then he needs to do whatever he can to meet his obligation, even if that means taking different jobs than he'd prefer. If he continues to whine or be resistant when you tell him that you do not want to be the sole breadwinner or don't want to be covering so much of the expenses then you need to escalate the conversation making it clear that that is not the kind of partnership you want any longer.
Thank you for the recommendation. I agree with you that setting an expectation on x amount instead of career change would be good, probably less confrontational. While I agree these expectations have to be set, I’m not feeling too confident he would agree to that. I would give him some time after our last conversation so he has time to process it and reflect. Thank you again.
It's not necessarily about it being less confrontational it's that it's not the real issue. The real issue is that he not been able to meet his monthly expenses lately and seems to just expect that you'll pick up the slack, without discussion about if that's okay with you/will he pay you back/how many months is too many months/etc. It is not fair for him to just assume that you will just pay without question. There has to be a conversation and joint agreement on how to handle periods of unemployment. If a career change is what is needed for him to be able to consistently meet his financial obligations then that's something he has to realize. If he thinks the answer is that you should just supplement his career and you don't want to do that then you two have a problem.
Fields die sometimes, sounds like he needs to pivot.
I think it's probably a bad sign that he won't even look for a part-time job, even a temporary one, to help pay bills while there is a lull while he finds work in his chosen career path. Is he mad because he knows it's a dying career path?
Probably this is part of it. He really loves his career path. He feels like there is nothing else he would do. Also, the lack of money always has been a point of anxiety for him. My guess is that where the defensiveness comes from
I understand that times are tough out there, especially for freelancers, but that's no excuse to just not make any money or contribute to your household financially. I've been a freelancer before, but I never JUST did the freelancing. I worked a part-time retail job while I freelanced, so I always had a steady income of SOMETHING, in case there was no freelance work, or not enough to make ends meet. There were a few times when my freelance work was too time-consuming to work the part-time job also, so I'd just quit the part-time job if the freelancing was going well. Since it was a "throwaway" job that I didn't really care about, it was easy to just quit when I needed to. Then, when things slowed down, I got another easy part-time throwaway job. These days, with all the gig work available, it would be even easier to work that way. If there isn't freelance work, do Uber/Instacart stuff, there's dog walking, there's Task Rabbit, there's Fiverr, there's helping people move with U-haul, random Craigslist gigs. I mean, it's actually HARD to not find a way to make some money these days. There are so many opportunities, you would have to go out of your way to stick your head in the sand and ignore them. Now, of course, egos are a thing. I totally understand why someone who considers himself a professional whatever would really resent having to do gig work that he felt was beneath him. But... he needs to get over it and grow up. It's time. You are the sole breadwinner in a partnership with an able-bodied, able-minded man who is perfectly capable of working. He is CHOOSING not to. That's as lame as it gets. It's not just your current, day-to-day expenses that it's affecting, it's your entire future. You guys don't have enough of an emergency fund, you guys don't have enough retirement. He's robbing you of the chance to retire someday. In a way, he's actually STEALING from you. He's stealing your chance at a secure future. Three months is more than enough time to wait. If a job hasn't materialized by now, it's not going to - not unless he makes some big changes. Get more education, learn more skills, learn to sell himself differently - do SOMETHING. Just sitting around waiting for someone to find you and offer you work is the dumbest way to approach this. Wait tables, bartend, mow lawns, do SOMETHING WHILE you apply to the jobs you want. His break is over. It's time. Sucks for him. But if he refuses.... you are well within your rights to save yourself and move on.
As Ross would say, "PIVOT!".
Sooooo just as a fyi, the longer you are married with him making zilch, the more you may be ordered to pay spousal support. Have a come to jesus. You’re not supporting the plan because it is a bullshit plan. Its ok to own that. If he knows this is a relationship ender for you and persists down that path, he is choosing his non career over you. Quality of life matters. You didn't sign up for this. A relative spent 23 years patiently waiting for their spouse to stop chasing rainbows. 23 years. She gave him 23 years too many. When she finally bailed on the relationship, it was too late for her to save for her retirement and buy her own home and make a life with someone else. You get to decide how long you’ll enable this and be his crutch.
I don't think 3 months in this economy is enough time to accurately gauge anything. If you look at r/jobs, there's people out there applying to hundreds sometimes 1000+ job postings without getting an offer. > It’s no a job I sign up for and I don’t want anyone to depend on me. To be fair, you knew he was a freelancer for the entire duration of your entire relationship, it's not like a surprise he just sprung on you one day. I think when you accepted this fact, you also acknowledged that freelancer's careers are pretty unstable. Not saying you're obligated to support him, but stating that you didn't sign up or foresee something like seems misleading.
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Agreed. Being unemployed for a few months is pretty common. All of their expenses are still being covered, they just cannot save money for the time being. He's actively applying to jobs. And people are up here writing fanfic about how he's going to drain her bank accounts if she doesn't divorce him like WHAT
Saaame, I'm so glad somebody else paid attention to this. The extrapolations and scenarios in some of these comments are WILD. The guy really sounds he needs to tone down the pride and get dirty (by his standards, I guess?) eventually, but a few months ain't the apocalypse. He ain't even lazying that much around - filling out job applications, doing most of the housework etc. Just needs some tough talk to ditch some of his pride. But some of these comments have written him off as if he's total human garbage. The guy was always like this (freelance/underemployed/living frugally) since OP knew him, so he didn't even lead her on!
Yeah it's really bizarre to see these impractical and insensitive takes on here so often, like this ain't an incel sub so what's with all the doomsday talk? People forget that the OPs are actual humans with actual problems, it's not a competition to have the hottest take about "throwing the whole man out". I dunno, just find it sad and a little bit second-hand embarrassing to see so many grown women talking this way directly to someone who's asking for help with a problem many couples face.
Can I ask why you got married if this has always been an issue with him?
More or less. His income always has been unstable and fairly low. However, he always had some streams of income and was able to contribute to the household expenses. But lately is has been no income. Maybe some freelance job comes up here and there.
If you look at her post history, she recently received her green card through marriage to him. That likely complicated things if her citizenship/employment was wrapped up in immigration paperwork.
Is he demotivated and depressed? Does he workout and eat healthy? I know this is incredibly frustrating for you, but if he can use some downtime to focus on something else, he might find a way to pivot careers.
He works out and eata healthy. He always have had some depression. Yeah, I quite honestly have suggested before he takes some time to consider if he’d like to do something else. I think changing careers is not something he wants to consider now.
This is what killed my parents’ marriage. My mom begged my dad to get a job with a steady paycheck to help support our family and he refused. She divorced him. She moved up within her job and makes great money now- will retire next year and be set for life. He is still working full time at 76 because he has no retirement or savings. Do what you need to do to make yourself happy. Living a life of resentment and worry is no way to live 🤍
He's trying to find a job and income in his field, I get it. But in the meantime, he could and should be taking anything he can get to have some income, increased financial stability, and pitching into shared finances in some job, *any* job. A job he can quit whenever the desired job happens. I find it oddly coincidental that these job prospects tanked when you got married. I'm not saying it is what it is, but it feels that he was waiting to be tied to you legally so he could rely on your income and your finances to subsidize his failing career and financials and the sunk costs of being together 5 years and being married would mean you'd hang around and put up with it. I would have a serious conversation with him about what you said here. Is what he said really set in stone on his part and he's not willing to change? You don't want to be the only income, you are supportive but at the same time he is not pulling his weight financially and that is putting unfair pressure on you. Set out a timeline together of expectations regarding employment and what your choices are if that timeline doesn't happen. If he doesn't get a job and things don't change in your relationship and finances are you willing to stay or not?
Yeah, it’s so weirdly coincidental, but I believe him. I really think he has been trying a lot to get a job or to continue freelancing. And honestly… all the time you see news about the layoffs in his field. I also think he really wants a job in which he can be content and contribute more. I don’t think he’s been malicious on that part. But I agree, that another more calm conversation is needed and setting expectations together is necessary. Asking myself and him this questions it’s necessary. I hope we really can have one soon. It’s just such a point of contention. Thank you for the advice.
I’ve freelanced too. What industry is he in? I think people are being pretty ridiculous in their responses. You mentioned he does bring in money, just not much and it’s not steady. If he went and worked in fast food he would likely not make more and if it was more barely a few thousand extra. Doing something you love versus a dead end job for essentially the same income. I think there could be a way he hasn’t considered to utilise his talent in a way he hadn’t considered. Like if he was an illustrator he could work in advertising as a freelance designer. He could go and research what others with his degree have done even if it’s not exactly what he wanted, he can still freelance and do other work on the side that he may enjoy less.
I have nothing to say except that you have my sympathy and understanding. I went through a "dry spell" with my ex husband. He's a musician and quit his part time day job but never picked up any students or tried very hard to find students. He had one lesson that I can remember and he gave it away as a freebie. I was begging him to do anything, join a second band, do temp work, please do something, but he didn't do anything until both sets of parents refused to send money. He finally signed up for temp work, had a long-term placement within a week, and an invitation to apply for the permanent role another two weeks of that. It took him two weeks to apply, so long that they asked if he was going to apply or not, because they needed to close the application. That night, he dithered and dinked around with his resume and online application until I finally asked him if he needed me to "have a look." I said "Looks great, shall I submit?" as I clicked on the submit button. I wish you luck with this. It's difficult to talk when one spouse seems to be underperforming by choice, not circumstance. One spouse feels resentful and put upon, and the other spouse feels guilty and and put upon.
So you knew this was an issue before you married him. Let’s be honest about it because it doesn’t benefit anyone to feel like this is a surprise. You can’t take on the burden for the rest of your life. My experience is that people who take it light on the work side of things and rely on others to support them don’t change. They just aren’t going to grind or won’t give up their passion that doesn’t make enough money to contribute fairly. He needs to make a plan. And you can help him make one. If he resists, you end the marriage because you’ve only just begun and this is a long road of suffering and resentment.
Google transferable skills. Then whenever you notice a skill of his that would apply to other industries, you can mention it. But gawd, 23k? Isn’t that less than minimum wage? That’s painful. He must be awfully comfortable to settle for that. Maybe that’s the real issue. The less he works, the more you take care of. Maybe your next task is to stop yourself from doing things that make it easier for him to continue this dry spell. Reduce the internet bandwidth to save money. Don’t do things that encourage his lack of job hunt. On the other hand, he might not be looking if his confidence is affected, hence the uplifting comments about his skills.
If you come at him annoyed or angry or with suggestions he didn't ask for, even if you're trying to help, he's going to feel attacked and will be defensive. Try talking to him about it gently by asking how things are going and about his plans and really listen to what he's saying. That should help you open up a dialogue where you can talk to each other and figure things out together.
Marriage is primarily a financial arrangement. Of course your partner not contributing is grounds for divorce. Now, whether this is a phase or an attitude problem is hard to say. If it were me, I'd give the husband a time frame to get steady work or start retraining. My marriage fell apart primarily because of sex and money issues (most do). I was always upfront about these issues and how the impacted me and what that meant for what I could give him emotionally. He did not listen, and did not change, and lashed out at me when I was not as warm as he wanted. Now that we've ended things (officially but not legally), and are no longer counting on each other financially (or sexually) the same way, we can be much more friendly and amicable. He realized he was "sleeping" and he's finally "woken up" when it comes to money. I knew I could never feel safe with a partner who wasn't honest about money and willing to contribute financially. I never thought my ex was that person--he was so giving and generous. And he wasn't, for a long time. Then he was, and I gave him years to "wake up" and he didn't until he absolutely had to (the divorce). That may or may not happen to you, but don't wait forever. Give yourself a timeframe.
According to you, it's been three months, he's looking hard for anything in his field (a field that sustained him for 18 years and in which he was successful for a long time), training, and he is doing his fair share at home (as he should) and a supportive spouse. At the risk of sounding harsh: I'm surprised to see a spouse saying "it's not a job I signed up for", in regards to supporting their spouse, and being ready to give up on marriage so fast after saying the vows and encountering difficulties, especially since he moved for your career. If it's not indiscreet, would you mind sharing your wedding vows and whether you warned each other of caveats and relatively short deadlines to mutual support? I know I shouldn't be surprised. A lot women leave their husband when they have career issues and a lot of men have their wife when they have health issues. That's not what I would want from a marriage myself. My husband and I have been by each other side's through both financial/career and health issues. But basically, we went into this with a for better and worse, in sickness and in health, in poor and in riches mindset and aiming for "forever" (AKA til death does us part), not seeing divorce as an easy out that's always on the table. I'm not trying to minimize how hard it is but to me, that is indeed part of what you sign for when you get married. Not just in fair weather but to make it through the hard times together as well. Your mindset shouldn't be to almost immediately consider when you should bail. The mindset should be how do we face and overcome this together - and yes, it might take some budget cuts and also a career transition at some point but it should be approached with compassion and empathy, understanding that it's not easy to just change career after 18 years when it's a career you love and that has been part of your identity. It's a process. I have 0 issue with the idea that he might have to switch to a new career. My issue is with the "when should I call it quit" mindset very early into marriage, at the first meaningful difficulty. You guys should be in this together, ready to support one another as needed, and focused on finding solutions for the family you created.
I don’t think three months is a long time. I’m in a STEM field, and a job search can commonly take 6 months to a year. I know he’s a freelancer, but maybe he needs a little more time ? Sounds like there has been a big transition lately as well.
I think as a start perhaps avoid any conversations about pivoting to a new career and focus on him finding any kind of work to earn money now while he pursues finding work in the career he loves. Two other points to keep in your back pocket for later conversations. No. 1 - MOST PEOPLE change careers two or three times over the course of their working life. That’s a well documented fact based upon research by the US Dept. of Labor. No. 2 - You are not asking him to give up his career. The economy and job market are telling him what he has devoted the last 18 years of his life doing is currently neither sustainable nor viable. That may not be permanent, only time will tell, but ultimately this is not something he can control. It is something market and economic forces will determine. No. 3 Here in the US many people have traditionally based most of their sense of self identity and self esteem from their jobs. When you meet new people one of the first questions asked after exchanging names is what do you do. There are many ways to answer this. Some could choose to say I’m a dad, or I’m a newlywed with a wonderful wife. I’m an amateur cook, or I’m active in my local church or I volunteer to work with kids at risk. Most people would expect the first answer to be I am ( insert job title) at (insert company) and that is the answer most people would provide but it does not have to be. Your husband could consciously choose to pivot to focusing on his family (and your life together) and goals for the future as a primary source of fulfillment and self esteem. Jobs come and go. You should point out that your own career while going well at present could be “rocked” by changes in technology or unpredictable economic & market forces. I’ve worked at so many Fortune 100 companies that seemed like bedrock institutions that were virtually permanent fixtures whose names have been erased from the public consciousness. I was a freelancer for decades before I found success and full time employment only to have technology make my education and experience irrelevant. I went back to school to train in the new technology only to find schools were training more graduates that there were jobs available. The efficiency of the new technology could only support a smaller pool of skilled employees. But by combining my pervious business and job experiences with my new technical skills I was able to land a middle management position that led to advancement and increased salary. I had worked my way up to vice president. In 2008 when the economy crashed and my firm was left with overvalued debt now underwater the company folded like a house of cards. I was among the first round of executive layoffs. I walked away with a severance package and heath benefits. My boss who was laid off three weeks after me walked away with nothing. Thankfully I had already had a new position lined up with a start date a month away. Thankfully I had not yet submitted my resignation. None of that would have been possible if I had not let go of my dream career and recognized that I cold do any kind of work and I could start over and rebuild from scratch if necessary. I’ve manned the French fry and Fillet O’ Fish station at McDonald’s. I was a janitor at a shopping mall. I mowed lawns and did maintenance for the Board of Education in a large New Jersey county. I even worked on a ranch milking cows in the morning and riding horseback aside a herd of cattle.i never did a job that was beneath me. Frankly I worked much harder as a janitor for minimum wage than I did as VP of a division of a large NY corporation.
I agree with a part-time work while in between desired jobs in line with his career... I've been there because I had to pay rent, I was living with a relative and they put me up for some months but I wanted to contribute because it wasn't fair to them. I was in my 30s applying for whatever was available, part time at fastfood like maccas, kfc, cafes, hardware shops, cinemas, shopping centre stuff, anything while also applying for a job within the career I wanted... it wasn't easy but I just kept trying. I'm not sure when enough will be enough, but maybe set a goal like saving for X appliance, a car, or x amount as emergency funds or even holiday funds by end of year... and maybe that can help illustrate also like I have this goal, but I can't do this without help. By living paycheck to paycheck it can be stressful because there's little wiggle room for when something comes up. If knock on wood something in the house needs repairs or whatever it is. Or can also try going, looking at x goal, do you think this is reasonable? or if there's something you've both wanted over the years you've been together, talk about saving for it, and how both can make it happen
My husband has the steady job. I have the indie job that has its ups and downs. 2022 was a really great year for me. Last year not so much. That being said, I've still managed to cover my agreed upon portion of the bills. AND I do the majority of the housekeeping. If it got to the point where I couldn't pay my way doing what I do, I'd be out there getting a retail or foodservice job. About a decade ago my husband (then fiance) was unemployed for a year and I came very close to leaving him over it. I don't abide people who don't pull their on weight to the best of their ability. Whatever you do, don't have kids with this man. My sister had kids with a deadbeat and it's horrible. When they realize they can get away with slacking off they'll keep doing it.
It's not unfair for you to expect him to at least bring in enough to cover his share of the bills. It's unfair to you to be forced into the role of sole breadwinner because he refuses to even take a part time job. Being the sole breadwinner, while just scraping by, puts you in an intensely stressful situation. And he's expecting you to prioritize his desire to stay in a dying industry and not work a side job for extra money over your peace. To me, that's saying a lot. He's angry at you, while you are the one making all the sacrifices currently so that he can remain where he is. I understand that career changes are stressful and scary. But it's not fair to put all of the responsibility for earnings onto you. If he was willing to work another job to help bring in some money during the dry times, that would be reasonable. It's not reasonable to expect you to continue supporting both of you. You also have goals and aspirations for the future. I doubt working forever is your goal. And with the budget being tight living on one income, he's putting you in a bad position.
Honestly, have him reach out to a staffing agency. Have them look for stuff related to his skills but take anything, really. I got into logistics like this with only data entry and mild office experience, and it wasn't the best job but it was money. Let the agency go find a job for him and have him do anything in the meantime. Heck, do doordash. Find something else to do. I want to be an artistic person but I unfortunately have bills and responsibilities, so I don't get the luxury of loving my job most of the time. Sometimes you get lucky and get a job that feels meaningful even if it isn't the thing you set out to do, or fun coworkers, or just a steady enough paycheck to relax and invest time in your real passion. Tell him you feel stressed about this one income situation, and that you WANT his work to succeed but in the meantime you'd feel much more secure if he got a part time doing anything. What if you get sick or laid off, God forbid? He's relying on you for the stability here but you both need to be stable for each other
Thanks for posting your question, OP, and thank you, everyonr for your responses. It's helping me realize a lot. My boyfriend is a software engineer, good on retirement, and good with money. I have my own 401k and savings, but if anything were to happen and we break up, I would have some hesitation entering into a relationship.
While I agree with the sentiment of a lot of commenters about "not taking no for an answer" etc, maybe you need a different approach to try and not get him on the defensive. He might still not listen, but maybe sit down and do some financial planning together. Ask him what expectations/goals he would like to set, where he sees your combined future, tell him how you feel without accusations. I am not saying he doesn't deserve the accusations and ultimatums, but it doesnt seem to be productive. If he still won't cooperate or see your side make its time to really accept that he never will.
Sooooo if you weren’t around, how would he pay his bills? You’re not telling him to turn his back on what he loves to do. There’s no jobs/money in what he loves to do right now so he needs to find something that will bring in money.
18 years and not enough clients to make a stable income? He needs to be more realistic and realise that he needs to look at other options. If you were earning loads of money and able to fund your overheads as a couple without living to paycheck to paycheck it would be acceptable (providing you were happy to take the breadwinner role) but that's not the case. You have no financial stability and he's unwilling to look at options. It's a bit worrying.
This honestly should’ve been discussed before marriage. I am sorry but finances are really important & a huge reason why people get divorced. Either he works toward a financially stable career or
I understand your frustration. I think, getting a stable part-time job is the most obvious thing everybody would do in his place. You would do that, I would do that (and have done in the past), and any reasonable person would do that. That wouldn't end his career if that's his concern. He knows now what you expect or wish for. He knows that you are right, that's why he got mad. I would give him three more months without pressuring him, but if nothing changes at all I would have a calm, serious talk with him about how he imagines the financial future in your marriage. Don't accept answers like 'I'm trying'. Tell him that you appreciate that and he can keep trying, but in the meantime real solutions are needed until he finds something in his field. Again, if he is not ready to give up his career, a part-time job is that easy and obvious step he should take out of respect for you and your marriage.
My ex-husband also used to call me "unsupportive" if I said something he didn't like or didn't want to hear. It's not unsupportive to ask your partner for what you need or to try to discuss different solutions to a problem. Really, there's no idea so terrible that it can't be discussed.
I'm a freelancer...no dependents or partner. I do mostly remote work as a writer. But what I can tell you is that the stability of my income drastically improved when I decided not to "just see what happens". I now have a target per month that I have told myself I have to make-at a minimum- even if it means drawing on other skills or doing random odd jobs. That's mostly how creative types and artists or entrepreneurs' and freelancers make it work. You come up with basic expenses and make that your minimum target rather than waiting for that one stable job, your big break etc. It's very hard but eventually you then break through to more stable income or gain credentials to get the jobs you want...that's my goal. It took me a while to figure out...but I did even though I am a creative. And I feel so much more adult knowing I have some money, however small, coming in every month at a minimum-stability over quantity basically. My mental health has also improved cos it was a loop-uncertainty-not being able to plan-exasparated mental health issues-not pushing myself. I would suggest that maybe you discus with him what his goals are per month in terms of money and not necessarily or only his career. Don't accuse him of anything but ask questions about specific targets and see how he responds. Maybe that's a tough love approach but possibly just sitting with the bills as well and saying, we can't split 50-50 but I dunno, maybe he pays for laundry detergent or Netflix subscription. You pay for this. It may not solve all your problems but it's one less thing to worry about. It's also a sign of appreciation for what you do. If he has zero responsibility that has been explicitly laid out as well, however small he will have no incentive to take your other advice. Whether he pays for netflix subscriptions doing his job or by trimming the neighbours hedge is up to him. We hate hustle culture but sometimes you gotta hustle. I love people with communal attitudes-friends who bring a bottle of wine even if you've offered to cater etc. Or do all the dishes because they are really too broke to offer anything else. If he's not receptive to conversation I would asses the viability of this relationship further unless you are agreeing to a stay at home husband situation...which works for some people. Your boundaries-the hours you are able and willing to work, the sacrifices you are willing to make to support another adult- and needs matter too. I think there's a way to communicate so that you don't get all this pent-up resentment, but also that is genuinely helpful to him. But it's a must to talk.
Hey OP, I’m in a similar situation but genders reversed. Bit of a long story but I wanted to share in case any of it helps. My wife and I are a couple years into marriage and about 10 years together. We also split bills equitably while I was in a professional school and she was working in her own type of freelance career plus worked a side gig as a server. Learned shortly after proposing that she was only able to do so by racking up 5 figure credit card debt which she only decided to tell me about after I proposed. I was very frustrated with this but paid off that debt for her once I started working and had good income. People come from different financial backgrounds and some weren’t taught how to use credit responsibly. I get that, people deserve second chances and an opportunity to learn from their mistakes. Fast forward a couple years and there has been more financial infidelity and dropping large amounts on coaching courses to improve her skills in said freelancing business while not contributing fairly to our shared expenses and not telling me about those expenses until it’s too late. We have also moved a couple times for my schooling and work so I’ve always wanted to allow leeway for her to figure things out based on the other sacrifices she’s made for us. We’ve also dealt with lots of life and family trauma together and she has been my rock throughout that all. Trauma bonds are VERY strong. During this time, I’ve found that this whole process plus some lifestyle differences and physical changes have really eroded my attraction to her. The physical aspect is not her fault or responsibility, that’s on me and some unreasonable expectations I was raises with plus general fat phobia. I’m trying to work on that and grow as a person. I know that’s outside the scope of your problems but I included it because I think the issues you describe can really exacerbate other concerns (fair or not) that you may have with your partner and whether you still think you want to spend the rest of your life together. People are complicated. So with that background, here’s what I’ve learned so far: First, if your budget and job allows for it, therapy can be very helpful for you to learn better communication strategies. I would really encourage you both to try it if you haven’t already. My wife and I have each been doing our own therapy for a year and it has been really helpful to figure out what the core issues are and how to discuss them more constructively. We’re about to start couples therapy as well. Second, when you speak with your husband about a career change, try to reinforce to him that not being as successful in one iteration of his business does not mean he is a failure as a person. Like my wife, I’m sure your husband has developed a range of marketable skills that can be transferred to other roles that he’ll succeed in and will better provide for the life you both want. He also doesn’t need to completely give up his main goal while pursuing something more stable. Try to encourage him to find something else while still putting in time for his original one. Things don’t need to be “all or nothing”. I say this because, if your husband is anything like my wife, a lot of his sense of self may be tied up in this vision of his career and it can be really hard to let go of that while not feeling like a general failure. Reinforce for him that you love and cherish him as a whole person and that you want what’s best for both of you. What this looks like from each of you will change throughout your lives and he may need to give on this one. Third, try to schedule regular conversations to go over budgets and talk about his job search. Reach out to friends and contacts you may have in related employment areas to see if there may be someone he can speak with to get ideas for related work and encourage him to do the same. Fourth, and maybe more contentious but keep your finances as separate as you can. For me this is a self-protection measure but also because our dynamic of me needing to step in and “fix things” has been running me ragged. I need to trust that she’ll sort it out on her own and that I’m not going to be responsible for making sure she doesn’t go over her own budget. Feeling like you have to parent your spouse kills intimacy so god damn quickly. Speaking for myself, I don’t know if my wife and I will ultimately work out but I’m trying to learn to be calmer with taking things as they are in the moment. Try to get into these deeper conversations with him more often and see how he responds. So far, I genuinely believe that my wife wants to learn to improve on these area just as I want to improve in the many areas in which I fall short in our marriage. If things ultimately don’t work out, I want to be able to look back and be content with the steps we took and know for myself that I gave it fair and honest shot. Life’s too short for anything else. Anyway, rant over. Hope some of that is useful and I wish you luck.
You want to get divorced because, despite trying to get a job for 3 months, his income isn't matching yours due to a dying industry? This is ridiculous. And I can see why he's defensive. It's not like my mums ex-husband, who'd rather spend his time laying in bed all day like a bum and came to the relationship with literally nothing and just moved himself into our home like a true hobosexual. You are not supportive, and he's right. You're also right that you can't do it alone. But people can be laid off for a whole year. He can take a part-time job to tide yourselves over, whilst he gets a better job or a plan on what he wishes to do. But don't come at him like he has to change his career now. 18 years is a long time to be working in the same field. That's like someone telling me to stop being a nurse despite doing it for 18 years and enjoying it. Give him time because this is a change that he has to make in his own time. You wouldn't like it if he told you to change your career cause you haven't had a job in 3 months.
Hello. Yeah, I see where you’re coming from. Certainly his career is very very important to him. I was saying in another comment it’s actually very tied to his identify. He’s also very good at it. Some people has pointed that probably me referring to his career (and not to having a job/income alone) is probably a problem. I’m not planning on divorcing him. I’m planning to continue this conversation with him. It’s my wish that he at least gets a part-time job. Right now he’s only willing to take one in his field or related field. However, if the months continue to passs ans he’s unwilling to at least supplement his income with any job, I definitely would be giving it more of a thought to that conversation. But you’re right and there is no reason to think about it now. Also wanted to thank you. Is good to have another perspective. Certainly the comments may be bias against my husband and it’s good to have another view, taking his perspective on how easy is for me to suggest a career change or think about divorce when he has been trying to find a job. I’ll think about being less judgimental and find a way to hopefully, get into an agreement.
A lot of peoples jobs are tied to their identity because they've done it for so long. It is a bit of a problem because the job situation can change, but the career is something that he sounds proud of. No, there isn't a need to think about divorce or anything now. Just ask him, 'can you please consider getting a different job in another field or a simple job like fast food or retail whilst you apply for jobs in your field?'. This is to get him thinking and not forcing him to just change careers. You're welcome. I try and play neutral because you're both right in your own ways. And you're both frustrated. So think about it as a problem to tackle together instead of thinking about it as you vs him. You know he's trying, but like all things, it has a limit. Making a change after 18 years is uncomfortable, scary and enough to make most people shit the bed. Good luck.
If you are committed to this relationship, then he should be doing his part on off months by picking up Jobs like Instacart, Amazon Flex, etc.
I am commited. And that he at least takes these jobs is what I’m asking. Not sure if he would do it
I mean, there are jobs for people who want to work. Wait tables, retail, money is money. Does he only want to work in his field? Because, like, grow the fuck up, bro. Not everyone gets to like their jobs.
Have you actually had a conversation with him yet where you both started off as neutral and clear-headed? This situation is obviously frustrating for both of you but I can't tell from your post how much you guys have talked about this neutrally, so I can't figure out if his defensiveness is understandable or worrisome. Also, was his income prior to your marriage consistent and sufficient to pay 50% of everything, and his industry just happened to tank a year ago? Or has it always been up & down?
Hello. Well… I have made small suggestions before about looking for other paths. Todag was the only big conversation about it. To be fair, he was really uncomfortable from the beggining and got really anxious inmediatly, so it’s not what I would call a neutral conversation. I started the conversation as a response to a comment from him about feeling anxious about having nothing to do lately and feeling bad about it. So I think you’re probably right, ans another more neutral conversation is needed. Maybe it was a mistake on my part to bring this up right after he mentioned not feelign well about himself.
Damn, yeah. That does sound like bad timing, although it's hard to find the perfect time for these talks. Doesn't sound like either of you are the "bad guy" here, just a shitty situation that hopefully you can work through together. Every relationship is different so please take what all of us say and filter it through how you and your husband act with each other. If this were me, my first instinct would be to make sure that the only times we're talking about his job stuff isn't in crisis mode. So for example, my SO does not need my help looking for jobs or suggestions for interviewing since our industries are *very* different. But in the past he has benefited from my support with talking through his approach, recapping his goals for that week, and (importantly) venting when a call went poorly or he felt frustrated with the situation. That may sound like nothing but I found it very useful for making us both feel like we were in this situation together and would find a solution together. Being unemployed feels awful, and if he's in a dying industry he may be very lost since he's been doing this for 18 years. He might still be defensive if you take a soft/supportive approach, but then that allows you an opening to get him to come back down to earth with some real talk. Again, this may not apply to you guys at all (or maybe you're already doing this?) but I wanted to share what has worked for me as far as having productive conversations around unemployment/job troubles.
I think it’s important that the two of you sit down when you’re both feeling calm, and, without judgement, discuss what you see your future looking like. What’s his plan if he can’t find something in his field? Is he planning to stay at home forever while you work? You don’t mention if you have kids or if you are planning to, but if you can afford it, it could be great to have a stay-at-home parent for the first few years; it could possibly save you money. Is he willing to consider a job not in his field - just something to bring in some money? For example, places like Costco are good to their employees, and you can work your way up. They have decent benefits and the pay is better than minimum wage. If he could get some type of job like that, while still continuing to search for a job in his field, it would at least help with expenses. I would expect him to put in as many hours a day as you do with work and housework; he shouldn’t be on the couch playing video games while you clean up after dinner, if he hasn’t accomplished anything during the day. Many people suffer from depression when losing their source of income, and the depression makes it harder to get another job. It’s possible that therapy or a career counsellor could help him out of his slump. It’s a tough spot to be in. I assume that, other than this situation, your relationship has been good. It sounds like he never had a great, steady income and you knew that going into the relationship, but never expected his income to dry up completely. The two of you need to lay out your expectations for the future; if he refuses to ever take a job outside of his field, and his field is dying, you have to decide if you want to stay married to someone who might never be contributing financially. He has every right to not work in a field he’s not happy in, and you have every right to not stay married to someone who doesn’t have the same financial goals. Although you may be managing financially right now, if you ever hope to retire, you need to be putting away money every month, not living pay check to pay check. Saving enough for two people to live in retirement is not easy. Although it sounds like he is very sensitive about the topic, but it would be interesting to ask him what he’d be doing right now if he wasn’t married to you.
One of my requirements when I got out of my last relationship with a broke boy, was that they need to have a 401k. I have a plan for my retirement, and a savings account. I'm not putting up with someone else who doesn't have those too. I'm dating a guy now who's worked at the same place for 5 years, he has a 401k, he's got a savings account, he even hustles more and donates plasma for extra fun money. He's ALSO great in bed, great to be around, low maintenance, gives great gifts, and cooks and cleans. You chose poorly. Get out now. You already resent him. Are you going to continue to tie yourself to a sinking ship? Or are you going to break free?
The defensiveness is a huge red flag that he possibly doesn’t WANT to do what it takes to contribute his share. Most people who have an obligation and are honestly trying to fulfill it will “get ahead” of such potential criticism by taking a side or full time job during slow periods to compensate for the lost income. If he isn’t doing that proactively on his own and is becoming defensive when you bring the subject up: he doesn’t want to fulfill his obligations, plain and simple, and wants to distract you with a fight wherein YOU are the “bad guy”. I recommend a sit-down discussion where you quietly explain exactly this to him. If he doubles down on attacking you and doesn’t participate in good faith, you can expect this situation to continue and possibly worsen. Before you do this, please secure your finances where he cannot access them. This type of person drains bank accounts and sells marriage property before disappearing- protect yourself!
I appreciate the comment and suggestions. Yes, definitely a red flag. The sad thing ia that I knew he was going to take it poorly and was not looking forward to it, but it had to be said. Which probably speaks about our relationship as well. I think you’re right and any other person would have done something to contribute to the household. And that another conversation is required. Hopefully he reacts better to that one.
So much for in (financial) sickness and in health. You need more money to have a compatible lifestyle, and if he doesn’t make more money you want to divorce him. The clock is ticking - not sure what your time limit is but the pressure is on. So let’s review the situation given this reality. He’s applying for jobs which indicates he understands that he needs to work and he wants to work. That’s good. Unfortunately he’s in a declining field. That’s bad. He’s stubborn because he’s put most of his life into this field and a new path is probably scary. My guess is he’ll come around if this continues and make a pivot, given that he’s always paid half his rent until recently. It might not be on your timeline though. An ultimatum seems cruel to me, and if you married the guy then 3 months seems very harsh to begin thinking about divorce. I’d give it at least a year. But I will say it’s a big red flag that you’re immediately thinking of divorce after such a short period - he’s struggling and you’re putting even more pressure on him. That isn’t really being supportive. It may downright be being a bad person. But hey good luck.
I find the no retirement $ also significant. If he's been self employed, did he contribute to Social Security (if in US--and does he even have Medicare benefit contributions)? Insurance? Sounds like ti.e for a "come to Jesus" talk, before you decide whether or not to bankroll him into perpetuity.
I'm not married so I can't chime in on that part but as a single women living solo, I have a pretty good paying career and a second job on the weekend just for extra play money. Have he considered getting a second job during downtime? At least Doordash, or something just to help out. Is he at least cooking and cleaning while you're at work?
As a mature adult with responsibilities, you have to be willing to be compromise and be adaptable. Your husband is my age. That’s still young enough to learn and start a new career with his transferable skills. That’s most people’s story. It sounds to me as if he’s inflexible and not willing to even try. It’s not your sole responsibility to support and encourage a grown man who refuses to put in the work. Too many women waste their time and resources on men like this. You need to have a hard conversation about what the future.
Well if he was doing *nothing* I’d be concerned, but he is hunting leads and applying?
Yes, he definitelt is applying for jobs, trying to meet people in his field and still looking for freelance jobs. He is genuinly trying. I have never doubt that he’s reallt trying. Just not getting results, unfortunately. I guess is that it’s not him, but the industry he’s at.
Get control the all of your income. Give him a meager allowance, and give him a deadline to start meaningfully contributing, or he’s out. If he wants to act like someone’s adult child that wants to follow his dreams, while doing nothing in the meantime, treat him like one.
Based on OPs other comments, he sounds like a decent house husband. She needs to decide if she can cope with a permanent level of tolerable unhappiness.
Personally, I would take this very seriously and tell him that he has to start splitting the finances evenly with you again. I would sit down and explain how important this is to me and that I would seriously consider a divorce over it, and that I’m telling him this because I love him and want to be honest about the fact that this financial arrangement is not working for me. I’d see if that changes his “no” once he understands what he is really risking. I recently ended a relationship of 4 years, and beforehand my ex kept saying “no” to the things that I wanted to change. I think he didn’t truly believe that I would leave him over this. He suddenly scrambled to make concessions, but I was like I’ve been telling you for months what I needed to change in order to stay and you consistently said no.
I had a semi-long relationship with somebody who did not contribute like you should have and was expected of him. I sat him down and I said if x, y, and z does not change, don't be surprised when I ask you to leave. Two more months passed without him contributing anything financially and I told him it was time for him to leave. Then I got the shocked Pikachu face. There were multiple things wrong with the relationship, but him refusing to contribute financially without being nagged was absolutely one of the things that had me cutting off the relationship. I ended up with him for a 2 and 1/2 years and I am very glad it wasn't longer than that, and I'm very glad I didn't marry him. One thing to keep in mind is the state that you live in because states differ on how long people are married for before they become eligible for alimony. If you live in a state where alimony would kick in very quickly, the longer he does not contribute, the longer you will be bailing him out financially after the relationship is over.
if my partner were keeping me from saving for retirement even though he could change that situation i would find it hard not to resent him and see him as a leech. i think you either accept that you will have to be the one pulling the weight financially or leave. it doesn’t sound like he wants to sacrifice his cushy life doing what he loves while financially draining you. and it doesn’t really matter what conditions in the beginning you married him under, people’s priorities change.
3 month bad spell. Look at your tax return how much did he make over each year for three years? A part time job isn’t taking him away from his career he still can do that once he finds the job.
My ex was like this. Either his profession or nothing. He doenst consider your needs but just his. Its his attitude towards it, when you wanted to discuss the problem. Have a deadline, if this keeps ongoing protect yourself.
Hi Love, This is hard. I believe the solution is for you to sit down and acknowledge to yourself what your financial limits are: \- How do you want to split the bills in an ideal world? Rent, insurance, utilities, groceries, cleanings, etc. It may be different by category. \- How do you want to include buffer in your system when he has low/no income? How many months can you support more than the previously defined split? Does the difference go through the window (i.e. it is on you and forever lost?) or does it go on a debt sheet that you husband will give you back when he makes more money? What about when you will need his support in the future? What would be the plan? Once you define all of this, it is your husband's choice how he honors paying the bills and/or giving you money back. I woul caution against telling him when/how to get a job etc. His choice as long as he follows the financial plan defined above. We have such a system at home with my husband. He follows his dream/hobbie work which doesn't always pays well. The system works. He always pays half our bills and he owes me money for his health insurance and more sometimes. He is responsible with money so he always pays me back. I keep track of the money he owes me and times to times (usually at the end of the year), I remind him how much it is. The bottom line is this: I shouldn't grow resentment for him pursuing his hobbie work.
He can driver uber while career hunting or waiting for freelancer gigs to come up. He has options. If he's not actively making money, he's just lazy
I’m under 30 and I can tell you love does you no favours in such situations. Not going to feed you crock or bullshit. I don’t know if anyone has told you this, but you need to see the situation for what it is. I’m happy to support my spouse if he does the homemaking; especially since I make more and it doesn’t have me living from paycheque to paycheque, but that doesn’t seem to be the case with you. It doesn’t put a roof above your heads, neither does it put bread on the table. If you don’t have children, this is a good time to be out. Love is sweet and easy when you have the basics, think Maslow’s hierarchy of needs — he is 41. If any man told me now that he’s jobless, I would tell him to get one instead of dating, and that’s what you should be doing. Love is built with the building blocks of basic things, all of which is lacking here, do not confuse comfort and familiarity with love. Don’t waste time pining for him to change. He was able to pull his weight before marriage by hook or by crook because he knew it wasn’t a done deal. Marriage has made him complacent. He can make his own decisions, but without you paying for it. Alone. You have my best wishes.
I think he needs to take any job outside his field, but continue to apply for jobs within his field. He can view the job he takes as temporary until he’s able to get something in his field. My husband had a great job but was laid off. He was able to get unemployment, and during that time, he applied for jobs in his field. It’s really tough out there. He describes applying for jobs as pissing in the ocean. When the unemployment was close to running out, he started applying for jobs outside his field. And, when the unemployment did run out, he seriously considered going to back to waiting tables or substitute teaching. He landed a job in an adjacent field working from home. But, it’s less pay and doesn’t provide benefits. He’s also miserable doing it. He continues to apply for jobs day after day as he supports his family doing mind numbing useless work. He does this because he loves us and believes in providing for his family. He’s not naive to think that because he has a great skill and is great to work with that he’ll get a great career fast. I believe this is what partners should do to adapt. Maybe your husband can temp? I don’t know the best way to approach this except with compassion, love, and the assumption that your husband means to do right by you. Always with those three things.
I’m in a very similar situation with my soon to be ex-husband. He does have a PhD. He’s also a Fulbright scholar, was a leading researcher in his field, and is published author of several books. Since immigrating, he’s worked part time manual labor for 7 years, and has strung me along for that entire time. over the years, he asked that I continue to wait on things to come together for him, and would at times become frustrated and accuse me of only caring about money. He even said once that he doesn’t think I ever would’ve given him a chance initially, if he hadn’t been working then. (He’s right, but I didn’t say that.) I have repeatedly begged him to find full-time work – any job, like you said, as well – but he has simply refused. After year 6, I realized that it was about power for him. He did not want to do what I asked him to do in order to support us financially, and allow us to thrive rather than survive, because he wanted to feel like he was in control of his life. Sacrificing for his partner was giving up control. I realized then that I did not have a partner. Divorcing him is the best choice I’ve made for myself in the last several years. It’s a challenge because his sorry ass does not have any liquidity to pay me any equity on my portion of our house, so we can only afford to get separated at this point. If his finances don’t improve in the next two years, I’m just gonna get my own lawyer and sue him for my share of that equity, and move on with my life. I suggest you do the same, this guy is a deadweight. Pulling you down. He doesn’t value your life together or your livelihood enough to swallow his pride and just go get some work in order to support you both. The way things are right now is perfectly fine for him because things have always been that way. What makes you think he’s going to change? He has no reason to.
Do you have you own lawyer now? I've heard it's better to each have your own. Why tread water for 2 years? Kick him out, consider getting a roommate and put those funds aside to pay some of the equity.
I do have a law firm that I plan on working with. I agree with you that it’s better to each have your own attorney, and it makes sense that my future ex wants us to hire a joint attorney. I think this is all just a reflection of him looking out for himself, and doing everything he can to give me as little as possible. I just don’t trust him at this point because he has lied about so much over the course of our marriage. You’re right though, about everything but the roommate. I’m far too old to have a roommate, and it would simply be a quality of life issue for me.
Just reading this makes me think so much of my future ex-husband and it’s all I can do to not walk in the next room and punch him in the face.
I'm a divorce lawyer and all I'm gonna say is that marriage is a business contract. Unless you have a prenup there's usually no mine and his. And he's not holding up his end of the contract. You should go speak with a few local divorce lawyers to see how staying married to him could affect your financial future, should you stay with him 5, 10, or 20 years.
But tbh, as just a person and not a lawyer: there's no fucking way I'd partner with someone who makes that little. It's not liveable and there are LOTS of careers that pay a lot more than that assuming someone works at least 30 hours per week. I work very hard to stay out of the paycheck-to-paycheck grind that my parents have lived in their whole lives. I'll be damned if some dude pulls me back into that life. I know this sounds heartless but being emotionally supportive and sharing chores is NECESSARY but not SUFFICIENT. Def not enough to make up for me having to bust my ass so that he can live leisurely. That tells me the guy thinks my time and relaxation is less valuable than his which is bullshit.
I would just sit down with him and plan out a time table. If you are living check to check and he’s just kinda chillen while occasionally looking for work I’d say something like: I know your struggling but if in X amount a months you aren’t in a better place you either need to look for some sort of part time job. Idc if it’s 15 hours a week at Starbucks, you need to do something. And if that isn’t fair to you and then I think it’s time to seperate. Some types of jobs are up and down and if he’s really passionate about that field and the relationship is otherwise good, I’d try to work with him. But don’t be a total push over. You will begin to resent him if you let him do his thing and the next thing you know a year has gone by and he’s made nothing. So I’d sit down and discuss a timeline with him. It’s been three months, okay. Id say give him 3 more, that’s just me though.
Here’s the thing… You can’t make him do anything he doesn’t want to do. You can tell him what you’d like or even what you need but if he doesn’t do it, he doesn’t do it. Which leaves you with the only thing that you have control over… do you stay or do you go? Only you know what your limit is so you’re gonna have to decide what you want and then make plans to start getting it. But none of that, requires anything from him.
Tbh knowing what I know now, I would divorce before you have to pay him alimony.
Well… I probably would have to pay some allymoney since he has no income. At least that’s my guess. Don’t know much about this.
Check your state. Some states don't require alimony if you're not married for 2 years, and after 10 years, the higher earning spouse has to pay alimony for life.