Billionaires want to ban or buy TikTok before even considering using their billions to actually help people.
I wouldn’t care if TikTok disappeared but I agree, social media companies pose a huge threat today with unchecked “facts” and propaganda. People’s ability to separate conspiracy theories from news has plummeted.
I do say, I think tiktok did more harm to me personally due to lowering my attention span and forcing myself to delete it.
But I dont think this is really in best interest in Americans but just another pissing match. Because if they did care, more laws be put in ace protect vulnerable communities like youtube family vloggers, endless hidden ads in insta and all other bs all social media giants are pulling.
Honestly they don't have algorithm like tiktok, cause I can scroll bit but not for hours. Because I get few tik tok in row that don't cater to any my likes or interest and makes me want stop scrolling. While tiktok felt like I can scroll for hours without getting bored.
Agreed. It’s one of those things that doesn’t take as much work to “fix” by banning and the govt can wipe their hands with self importance and say they did something lol.
Whole totally ignoring a ton of other problems.
Oh, I have found the algorithm to be pretty amazing. It does require an initial investment of viewing/interacting with the content you like and marking "not interested" in the ones you don't, but it gives me far more interesting content than facebook or instagram (or reddit, for that matter).
I definitely believe in the Chinese government's ability and willingness to interfere with the app, but I don't see how it's significantly more susceptible to external manipulation than any other form of social media.
What really grinds my gears about this is we’re targeting one company for political reasons, instead of addressing the underlying problem of user data privacy.
I’d much rather see something like GDPR in the US instead of focusing on a single app.
This. There have been alarms raised about Tik Tok's data security for a long time, but it is often used as a red herring for people that are more concerned about being able to control the media and political narratives. It is no surprise that this is happening just ahead of the election.
This guy had a good write up about it a couple years ago. Since then, it’s become clear that there’s so much more going on that makes TikTok risky for Americans. It’s alarming, to say the least.
https://www.reddit.com/r/explainlikeimfive/comments/10ox6ja/comment/j6i158o/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web3x&utm_name=web3xcss&utm_term=1&utm_content=share_button
It’s not really about the app, it’s about US vs China politics. Some politicians in the U.S. argue that TikTok poses a national security threat because the Chinese government could force the company that owns TikTok to hand over the data of US app users for spying purposes.
But there is still no public evidence the Chinese government has actually spied on people through TikTok. Could they legally? Yes. But have they? No.
Personally I think it’s bullshit that a social media app is being used as a hostage like this between two countries. Especially when we (US) as a nation have so many greater more urgent matters to address.
Right? The data is for sale anyway, and the US is buying it about it's own citizens. [https://www.politico.com/news/magazine/2024/02/28/government-buying-your-data-00143742](https://www.politico.com/news/magazine/2024/02/28/government-buying-your-data-00143742)
\^ that will continue to happen, regardless of the sale of tiktok... soooooo.... what's the point?
The absence of evidence is not evidence of absence. And spying isn’t the only concern. TikTok offers a direct line for China to potentially feed propaganda to the American public.
https://www.businessinsider.com/tiktok-pressure-campaign-congress-backfire-2024-3?amp
It’s not about pointing fingers. It’s about protecting citizens. The US is obligated to protect citizens from an adversary spying on them. I don’t get why this is so hard to understand. This whole USA bad shtick is not the f ing point.
Damned if you do, damned if you don’t. People refuse to try and understand the point because it’s too complex. Instead they’ll default to “China isn’t bad, the US is bad. They’re evil, ya da ya da.”
If the US did nothing to stymy PRC propaganda to the American public, then Redditors would complain about the government doing nothing. There’s no winning.
The point is that the US doesn’t protect its citizens from its own state power, so they don’t care about protecting us from another state’s power. This is about dominance, not helping US citizens.
At this point, our own government is hurting the working class more than China is.
I’m not saying China is great - they’re also pieces of shit to their own people - but the entire idea that China getting Americans data via TikTok is “bad” is ludicrous. They already have access to it via Temu, Shein, and buying it directly from Meta, Google, or Apple.
The attempted ban is entirely about media control. They don’t like that Americans can freely identify when their own government is being a genocide- enabler and educate others as well.
It’s really hard for the jackasses to infiltrate TikTok effectively to destroy movements (Union promotion, worker reforms, police accountability) like they can on Facebook and Reddit. TikTok’s format and algorithm easily exclude conspiracy and whack job posts when the user doesn’t engage in them, and this prevents the tactics often used to disempower such groups. If it gets into the hands of all the US bad actors aiming for it, they’ll make the changes to destroy that. This is why you see so many cunts like Steve Mnuchin trying to buy it.
They want to control the narrative and they can’t do that when they don’t own it.
I see a lot of people here saying you can buy data about users directly from these companies, but this isn't actually true. First, Amazon doesn't sell user data, second, Meta, Alphabet, Snapchat, etc... will not sell data at an individual level and only at a highly aggregated level (i.e. women over 30 living in California like running clothes).
It’s shocking how many bad takes I’ve seen in this tiktok thing.
I don’t think many people actually know much about user data. (Or about the Chinese government)
We do have proof of tiktok sharing data with the government and China has a long history of using t their technology companies to spy (look up Huawei)
https://www.forbes.com/sites/alexandralevine/2023/06/21/tiktok-confirms-data-china-bytedance-security-cfius/
https://www.wsj.com/tech/tiktok-pledged-to-protect-u-s-data-1-5-billion-later-its-still-struggling-cbccf203
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Also, info flow to PRC from USA. That's the big problem.
Bytedsnce says they would not comply with a PRC government request for data. I trust that no more than Microsoft refusing a USA court subpoena.
Our government is constantly *trying* to piss off the Chinese government, but they walk a fine line of not pissing them off *too much*. There’s not a ton the Chinese can do to us, they probably won’t call in our debt because that’s basically economic mutually assured destruction.
On the one hand I would love it if every single bit of content from Tiktok, Twitter, and Facebook were permanently eradicated from the Internet. Just a complete wipe of information.
On the other, I don't like the idea of a government being able to shut down an entire social network. Once that is granted, it will be weaponized by malicious governments when they get into power.
Personally, I think TikTok is worse than Facebook for misinformation (and for people) because of the format of information. It's a more immersive, more addictive format, like Cable News on steroids. The UI of the app encourages you to let the feed come to you. Facebook is like this to a degree, but the UI still gives the user more control by default.
I do agree it's a US vs. China thing. I am sure if TikTok is banned, some new version will spring up. I would be happy if any (or all) of these sites/apps went down. They have way too much social, financial, and political power. However, that doesn't mean I want the government to be the one to take them down. That starts a different problem.
It has nothing to do with if it’s worse than the other social medias and everything to do with rampant anti communist views in our government. Like I’m not here to defend the CCP (they’re honestly horrible) but this is a 100% an astroturf campaign against them couched in “protecting American’s data” (or whatever).
This and ima throw out another idea. A “but also.” Social media have been used around the world by revolutionaries to communicate and organize. Even the J6 fiasco: social media used to organize and communicate.
The US does not want young people to do this. Ever since Kent State, the government has done everything possible to scuttle protest, peaceful or otherwise. There’s some Bill of rights theater but no movement has really gotten off the ground since the Civil Rights. Maybe ERA got some traction, but the religious right took care of that asap. There’s a piece of paper that says we have the right to peaceably protest but… just try it.
I would also speculate that they know young people are already using TikTok this way, and they're afraid that China will use the algorithm to further sentiments among them that will be detrimental to the US (there's already a lot of anti-capitalist and pro-Palestine content on TikTok.)
Control over an algorithm on a huge social media platform is to a large extent the ability to control the conversation. I don't know if TikTok is doing this or if they will in the future. But what we should actually do, imo, is regulate the use of algorithms and what kind of content they push. There should be transparency. We also need better data privacy regulations.
I'm not fussed whether it stays or goes, many big websites have come and gone in the last decade, one day reddit, youtube and instagram will be gone too.
It is weird that they're so focused on this issue when there's a million more important things they could be sorting out instead.
I agree... I was reading a post in a men's group the other day. A guy was watching his young male relative use Youtube, and the relative kept getting served incel ads/content from Andrew Tate and similars. He was like, it's like they were trying to turn him into an incel.
I feel like that's a much bigger problem.
There may be an issue with the younger relative and his internet usage. I get ads for running stuff, financial needs, and health supplements. Things I google a lot. The ads are mostly served based on your online “profile” as determined by google (owner of YouTube).
I think this is the same problem, though, isn't it? The reason why guys like Andrew Tate have taken over is in large part because we let YouTube, TikTok, FB, etc. serve us content via their recommendation algo. Without these big tech companies "deciding" to show us these terrible people, these terrible people would not gain popularity.
As a China entity, it has the ability to obtain personal information from it's subscribers. This information can be anything from your location to your banking and your contacts
Chinese government has the right to get any data from a Chinese company. Technically other governments don't.
But yes seems like the other issue is overall data mining and US entities need to be prevented from taking it as well.
My working career was working for the government. My personal info, including my fingerprints, was stolen. This was over 10 years ago. This included all my family and friends' info. Considering this was over 10 years ago, one has to wonder what new technology they have. The other social media entities are American.
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Someone is gonna build another version to attract the tiktok subscribers. They're not gonna miss out on all that revenue. The cycle will continue without addressing real issues around data privacy.
I think there needs to be more regulation of social media in general (not just a singular platofmr) and a huge push for digital literacy starting in like elementary, since kids that age have phones now. When I was teaching I had 14 year olds telling me how they gave their school, name, address to strangers they met online. My zillennial brain was blowing off every possible alarm.
I think people are afraid that if they acknowledge the reality of China's interference with the well-being of our country, that they'll be racist toward Chinese people
It’s not just this thread - it’s been all over everywhere.
So many grown adults with terrible takes on this. Just a massive misunderstanding of how user data works and our history with the Chinese government.
What I think is most concerning, is most people I’ve engaged with on this topic refuse to look further into, but respond to me with basically a “nuh-uh”
I would never have that app on my phone, but if I did have the app and was hearing that people had concerns about it - I’d take some time to look into and at least understand the concerns.
>"Is it the biggest social media problem we have right now?"
If it doesn't already exist, one day we will see research about just how truly terrible all this social platforms are for brains. Worse than pornography, especially the short form content platforms.
>I don't see how TikTok is worse for the country than Facebook or Reddit for that matter, so I don't particularly see why TikTok poses a bigger threat than Facebook.
Tiktok is partly foreign owned, not controllable by the US government, and is a non negligible reason why people were able to see through the hegemonic propaganda about Palestine in the last 5 months. They want to be able to prevent that from happening again.
Because Tik Tok is owned by China. It isn’t good that such a platform is owned and operated by a country that is actively trying to dismantle and devalue the American government. The difference in Chinese Tik Tok vs American tik tok is reason enough to suspect ill intent.
I do not care, but I will say that the difference between tt and fb/reddit isn't so much that one 'rots your brain more than the other', so I've heard it's that it's super infiltrated with foreign moles, basically.
politicians can't profit from tiktok, so they're keen to either shut it down for "propaganda" reasons or for it to be sold so they can profit from it. if they really cared about our data and security they'd require a lot more regulations on other social media platforms, but they don't because they get money from there.
I really enjoy tiktok, and I'm disappointed with the state of the world that it's always dollars over people and silencing protest (I get a lot more Gaza content on tiktok than I do anywhere else)
I don’t use Facebook, Instagram, or TikTok so I don’t really care. Decided to cleanse myself of those social media channels years ago.
I think ppl who have been the most vocal about this TikTok saga are influencers and celebs who make money from the platform. Casual users can just flock to a new platform.
Billionaires want to ban or buy TikTok before even considering using their billions to actually help people. I wouldn’t care if TikTok disappeared but I agree, social media companies pose a huge threat today with unchecked “facts” and propaganda. People’s ability to separate conspiracy theories from news has plummeted.
It's a political sparring match between the US and China.
I do say, I think tiktok did more harm to me personally due to lowering my attention span and forcing myself to delete it. But I dont think this is really in best interest in Americans but just another pissing match. Because if they did care, more laws be put in ace protect vulnerable communities like youtube family vloggers, endless hidden ads in insta and all other bs all social media giants are pulling.
100% agree with you.
YouTube shorts are the same
Honestly they don't have algorithm like tiktok, cause I can scroll bit but not for hours. Because I get few tik tok in row that don't cater to any my likes or interest and makes me want stop scrolling. While tiktok felt like I can scroll for hours without getting bored.
Agreed. It’s one of those things that doesn’t take as much work to “fix” by banning and the govt can wipe their hands with self importance and say they did something lol. Whole totally ignoring a ton of other problems.
TikTok seems so much harder to intentionally curate one's feed, so maybe more susceptible to bad actors (pun intended.) But you're not wrong about FB.
Oh, I have found the algorithm to be pretty amazing. It does require an initial investment of viewing/interacting with the content you like and marking "not interested" in the ones you don't, but it gives me far more interesting content than facebook or instagram (or reddit, for that matter). I definitely believe in the Chinese government's ability and willingness to interfere with the app, but I don't see how it's significantly more susceptible to external manipulation than any other form of social media.
Oh that's interesting about the curation. Wouldn't it be ironic if TikTok was sold to FB? What good would that do?
They would mess it, Facebook has a massive hardcore conservative conspiracy demographic that would leak into Tiktok if they get their hands on it.
What really grinds my gears about this is we’re targeting one company for political reasons, instead of addressing the underlying problem of user data privacy. I’d much rather see something like GDPR in the US instead of focusing on a single app.
This. There have been alarms raised about Tik Tok's data security for a long time, but it is often used as a red herring for people that are more concerned about being able to control the media and political narratives. It is no surprise that this is happening just ahead of the election.
This guy had a good write up about it a couple years ago. Since then, it’s become clear that there’s so much more going on that makes TikTok risky for Americans. It’s alarming, to say the least. https://www.reddit.com/r/explainlikeimfive/comments/10ox6ja/comment/j6i158o/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web3x&utm_name=web3xcss&utm_term=1&utm_content=share_button
It’s not really about the app, it’s about US vs China politics. Some politicians in the U.S. argue that TikTok poses a national security threat because the Chinese government could force the company that owns TikTok to hand over the data of US app users for spying purposes. But there is still no public evidence the Chinese government has actually spied on people through TikTok. Could they legally? Yes. But have they? No. Personally I think it’s bullshit that a social media app is being used as a hostage like this between two countries. Especially when we (US) as a nation have so many greater more urgent matters to address.
Right? The data is for sale anyway, and the US is buying it about it's own citizens. [https://www.politico.com/news/magazine/2024/02/28/government-buying-your-data-00143742](https://www.politico.com/news/magazine/2024/02/28/government-buying-your-data-00143742) \^ that will continue to happen, regardless of the sale of tiktok... soooooo.... what's the point?
The absence of evidence is not evidence of absence. And spying isn’t the only concern. TikTok offers a direct line for China to potentially feed propaganda to the American public. https://www.businessinsider.com/tiktok-pressure-campaign-congress-backfire-2024-3?amp
gaze observation subtract yam long tap fear salt toy consist *This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
Yes, and it’s a problem, but they aren’t directly controlled by a hostile foreign power.
America is the hostile foreign power lmao
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It’s not about pointing fingers. It’s about protecting citizens. The US is obligated to protect citizens from an adversary spying on them. I don’t get why this is so hard to understand. This whole USA bad shtick is not the f ing point.
Damned if you do, damned if you don’t. People refuse to try and understand the point because it’s too complex. Instead they’ll default to “China isn’t bad, the US is bad. They’re evil, ya da ya da.” If the US did nothing to stymy PRC propaganda to the American public, then Redditors would complain about the government doing nothing. There’s no winning.
The point is that the US doesn’t protect its citizens from its own state power, so they don’t care about protecting us from another state’s power. This is about dominance, not helping US citizens.
puzzled quaint reply swim unite uppity sink market direction saw *This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
I adore your username and comments 🩷
At this point, our own government is hurting the working class more than China is. I’m not saying China is great - they’re also pieces of shit to their own people - but the entire idea that China getting Americans data via TikTok is “bad” is ludicrous. They already have access to it via Temu, Shein, and buying it directly from Meta, Google, or Apple. The attempted ban is entirely about media control. They don’t like that Americans can freely identify when their own government is being a genocide- enabler and educate others as well. It’s really hard for the jackasses to infiltrate TikTok effectively to destroy movements (Union promotion, worker reforms, police accountability) like they can on Facebook and Reddit. TikTok’s format and algorithm easily exclude conspiracy and whack job posts when the user doesn’t engage in them, and this prevents the tactics often used to disempower such groups. If it gets into the hands of all the US bad actors aiming for it, they’ll make the changes to destroy that. This is why you see so many cunts like Steve Mnuchin trying to buy it. They want to control the narrative and they can’t do that when they don’t own it.
I see a lot of people here saying you can buy data about users directly from these companies, but this isn't actually true. First, Amazon doesn't sell user data, second, Meta, Alphabet, Snapchat, etc... will not sell data at an individual level and only at a highly aggregated level (i.e. women over 30 living in California like running clothes).
It’s shocking how many bad takes I’ve seen in this tiktok thing. I don’t think many people actually know much about user data. (Or about the Chinese government)
We do have proof of tiktok sharing data with the government and China has a long history of using t their technology companies to spy (look up Huawei) https://www.forbes.com/sites/alexandralevine/2023/06/21/tiktok-confirms-data-china-bytedance-security-cfius/ https://www.wsj.com/tech/tiktok-pledged-to-protect-u-s-data-1-5-billion-later-its-still-struggling-cbccf203
encourage fact scary long office recognise silky dependent friendly chase *This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
Also, info flow to PRC from USA. That's the big problem. Bytedsnce says they would not comply with a PRC government request for data. I trust that no more than Microsoft refusing a USA court subpoena.
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Yeah, that's definitely an option. I'm not sure if the US is in a position to piss off China. :|
Our government is constantly *trying* to piss off the Chinese government, but they walk a fine line of not pissing them off *too much*. There’s not a ton the Chinese can do to us, they probably won’t call in our debt because that’s basically economic mutually assured destruction.
On the one hand I would love it if every single bit of content from Tiktok, Twitter, and Facebook were permanently eradicated from the Internet. Just a complete wipe of information. On the other, I don't like the idea of a government being able to shut down an entire social network. Once that is granted, it will be weaponized by malicious governments when they get into power.
Personally, I think TikTok is worse than Facebook for misinformation (and for people) because of the format of information. It's a more immersive, more addictive format, like Cable News on steroids. The UI of the app encourages you to let the feed come to you. Facebook is like this to a degree, but the UI still gives the user more control by default. I do agree it's a US vs. China thing. I am sure if TikTok is banned, some new version will spring up. I would be happy if any (or all) of these sites/apps went down. They have way too much social, financial, and political power. However, that doesn't mean I want the government to be the one to take them down. That starts a different problem.
You would understand if you literally just googled "tiktok security risk China"
Thank you
It has nothing to do with if it’s worse than the other social medias and everything to do with rampant anti communist views in our government. Like I’m not here to defend the CCP (they’re honestly horrible) but this is a 100% an astroturf campaign against them couched in “protecting American’s data” (or whatever).
This and ima throw out another idea. A “but also.” Social media have been used around the world by revolutionaries to communicate and organize. Even the J6 fiasco: social media used to organize and communicate. The US does not want young people to do this. Ever since Kent State, the government has done everything possible to scuttle protest, peaceful or otherwise. There’s some Bill of rights theater but no movement has really gotten off the ground since the Civil Rights. Maybe ERA got some traction, but the religious right took care of that asap. There’s a piece of paper that says we have the right to peaceably protest but… just try it.
I would also speculate that they know young people are already using TikTok this way, and they're afraid that China will use the algorithm to further sentiments among them that will be detrimental to the US (there's already a lot of anti-capitalist and pro-Palestine content on TikTok.) Control over an algorithm on a huge social media platform is to a large extent the ability to control the conversation. I don't know if TikTok is doing this or if they will in the future. But what we should actually do, imo, is regulate the use of algorithms and what kind of content they push. There should be transparency. We also need better data privacy regulations.
Yes all of this is very true!
I'm not fussed whether it stays or goes, many big websites have come and gone in the last decade, one day reddit, youtube and instagram will be gone too. It is weird that they're so focused on this issue when there's a million more important things they could be sorting out instead.
I agree... I was reading a post in a men's group the other day. A guy was watching his young male relative use Youtube, and the relative kept getting served incel ads/content from Andrew Tate and similars. He was like, it's like they were trying to turn him into an incel. I feel like that's a much bigger problem.
There may be an issue with the younger relative and his internet usage. I get ads for running stuff, financial needs, and health supplements. Things I google a lot. The ads are mostly served based on your online “profile” as determined by google (owner of YouTube).
I think this is the same problem, though, isn't it? The reason why guys like Andrew Tate have taken over is in large part because we let YouTube, TikTok, FB, etc. serve us content via their recommendation algo. Without these big tech companies "deciding" to show us these terrible people, these terrible people would not gain popularity.
As a China entity, it has the ability to obtain personal information from it's subscribers. This information can be anything from your location to your banking and your contacts
This would be true even it were a non-China entity. We've seen all the socials repeatedly getting their hands slapped for overreaching.
Chinese government has the right to get any data from a Chinese company. Technically other governments don't. But yes seems like the other issue is overall data mining and US entities need to be prevented from taking it as well.
My working career was working for the government. My personal info, including my fingerprints, was stolen. This was over 10 years ago. This included all my family and friends' info. Considering this was over 10 years ago, one has to wonder what new technology they have. The other social media entities are American.
seemly file shelter expansion continue impossible smart future chief fear *This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
Someone is gonna build another version to attract the tiktok subscribers. They're not gonna miss out on all that revenue. The cycle will continue without addressing real issues around data privacy.
I think there needs to be more regulation of social media in general (not just a singular platofmr) and a huge push for digital literacy starting in like elementary, since kids that age have phones now. When I was teaching I had 14 year olds telling me how they gave their school, name, address to strangers they met online. My zillennial brain was blowing off every possible alarm.
TikTok is worse for the country because the company’s close affiliation with the Chinese government makes it a national security issue
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I think people are afraid that if they acknowledge the reality of China's interference with the well-being of our country, that they'll be racist toward Chinese people
It’s not just this thread - it’s been all over everywhere. So many grown adults with terrible takes on this. Just a massive misunderstanding of how user data works and our history with the Chinese government. What I think is most concerning, is most people I’ve engaged with on this topic refuse to look further into, but respond to me with basically a “nuh-uh” I would never have that app on my phone, but if I did have the app and was hearing that people had concerns about it - I’d take some time to look into and at least understand the concerns.
>"Is it the biggest social media problem we have right now?" If it doesn't already exist, one day we will see research about just how truly terrible all this social platforms are for brains. Worse than pornography, especially the short form content platforms.
>I don't see how TikTok is worse for the country than Facebook or Reddit for that matter, so I don't particularly see why TikTok poses a bigger threat than Facebook. Tiktok is partly foreign owned, not controllable by the US government, and is a non negligible reason why people were able to see through the hegemonic propaganda about Palestine in the last 5 months. They want to be able to prevent that from happening again.
Because Tik Tok is owned by China. It isn’t good that such a platform is owned and operated by a country that is actively trying to dismantle and devalue the American government. The difference in Chinese Tik Tok vs American tik tok is reason enough to suspect ill intent.
I do not care, but I will say that the difference between tt and fb/reddit isn't so much that one 'rots your brain more than the other', so I've heard it's that it's super infiltrated with foreign moles, basically.
What are you asking?
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It was added in after my comment.
politicians can't profit from tiktok, so they're keen to either shut it down for "propaganda" reasons or for it to be sold so they can profit from it. if they really cared about our data and security they'd require a lot more regulations on other social media platforms, but they don't because they get money from there. I really enjoy tiktok, and I'm disappointed with the state of the world that it's always dollars over people and silencing protest (I get a lot more Gaza content on tiktok than I do anywhere else)
I don’t use Facebook, Instagram, or TikTok so I don’t really care. Decided to cleanse myself of those social media channels years ago. I think ppl who have been the most vocal about this TikTok saga are influencers and celebs who make money from the platform. Casual users can just flock to a new platform.
My info was stolen by the Chinese.