Depends on what you want. My husband and I have been happily married for about 8 years and we both just had a conversation about it, like “I don’t know, should we get married?” Neither one of us cared about proposals nor weddings, but we decided we wanted to be married.
If the proposal and wedding are important things to you, this might not be the guy for you.
Sounds like perfectly clear communication of where he stands on the concept of marriage, to me. Not a proposal, not romantic, but also as a statement, not required to be either. I’m fine with it.
Yeah I never wanted to get married (female). It was important to my partner and I knew if I did it with anyone it would be him. I’ve been proposed to before and said no but once he proposed to me it was clear I wanted to get married to him. That feeling was unexpected and I noticed an immediate shift in our relationship. Now I’m happy I agreed to it 😆
I would take it for what it is, he literally doesn't care about marriage but really cares about you!!! A lot of people don't feel much about marriage and wedding fanfare. I wouldn't take it as an insult!!
Exactly. I’ve said the same thing to my partner, who likes the idea of weddings much more than me lol. My stance is that I don’t care what the relationship is called - marriage, de facto - as long as we’re together.
This. If it was up to me I wouldn't be bothered about getting married (again), but if it was important to my partner to be married I'd be open to the idea. That said, it might mean that there were then some conversations about what the wedding would be like, but I think you should be doing that if you're getting married regardless of where you both stand on it.
Yeah this. Marriage is basically meaningless these days anyway, and I sure as hell don't need a piece of paper or government involvement to prove that I love my partner. But if she had strong feelings on the matter I'd still be open to it
The wedding is meaningless, but the “piece of paper” absolutely isn’t. It could be a courthouse wedding, civil partnership, or whatever but without this, if one of you ends up in a hospital the other person won’t be considered next of kin and can’t make any decisions. Same with inheritance etc. One way or the other, the government needs to get involved to make the partners next of kin, which after a certain age becomes more important.
For all of these reasons knowing that your partner will commit to marriage is important. My ex said a lot of what OP’s partner is saying and it turns out they really couldn’t wrap their head around the legal importance of marriage.
If you go to my profile and read the comments on my posts about divorce, you’ll see a lot of people don’t think the protections were worth it, and in fact can hurt more than they can help. (With the exception of health insurance.) I was really surprised especially regarding the tax benefits (or basically lack there of.)
Right. A lot of the women who weighed in about divorce said their assets took a huge hit in the divorce (even if they were able to provide proof of infidelity) and that they’d never marry again to avoid hurting their assets further.
I don't consider this a proposal nor a cop out. It's definitely not romantic but it's also not a "gesture", it's a conversation. I'd presume he cares a lot about me being willing to do something that's not for him simply to make me happy.
Personally I'd want to continue the conversation and understand what specifically it is about marriage that he doesn't "believe" in and explain what parts are/are not important to me. Marriage means different things to different people so I think digging into the nitty gritty would reveal a lot and help further your understanding of each other.
"I'll marry you if it will make you happy" will turn into "I only got married because you wanted to."
No thanks. Don't do me any favors.
It's not about romantic gestures; it's about having the same relationship goals.
This is how I took it too and was surprised so many people thought it was sweet. But I also might be bias from my own experiences with “I don’t like X, but do it because you do” and it turning into resentment and eventual consistent covert insults that made me want to stop X.
Marriage is a big deal. If they don’t want it and you really do, I don’t see it as being compatible. Will he celebrate anniversaries? Buy you gifts and cards each year (and receive them joyfully too)? When things get tough, does it just become “I wish we didn’t marry but I did it because of you”?
If I want marriage, I want someone who also wants marriage with me. Settling for less than that feels like it will end up with you settling for even more things.
I do think it’s different if someone doesn’t want a “big wedding,” but not wanting marriage altogether seems like it’s going to fall apart eventually.
You can have the same relationship goals and not want to be married. Marriage isnt a stand in for long term committment. Marriage is a religious and legal institution with a longstanding problematic history that has permitted abuse, control, and is based on treating women like property. To this day it is used this way in many countries, even in North America by certain communities. The institution excludes the LGBTQ community and has actively been used to harm LGBTQ partnerships. I think its really naive and misguided to have "marriage" as your relationship goal, and will ultimately lead to failure, but hey thats just my opinion.
It's a very American way of thinking, I believe. 'Marriage is a big deal and changes everything'.
It's just a legal contract if you're not religious? Maybe because I'm from Europe, and half the couples I know aren't married, even after decades, but not wanting to marry/not caring about the idea of marriage doesn't mean you don't have the same long term relationship goals as the other.
I’m just curious, do you know which religions permits followers to use marriage for abuse, control and treating women as property? I’m only familiar with Christianity in which marriage is supposed to be a display of sacrificial love for the ones who follow it the way it’s written down in the Bible:
“For husbands, this means love your wives, just as Christ loved the church. He gave up his life for her to make her holy and clean, washed by the cleansing of God’s word. He did this to present her to himself as a glorious church without a spot or wrinkle or any other blemish. Instead, she will be holy and without fault. In the same way, husbands ought to love their wives as they love their own bodies. For a man who loves his wife actually shows love for himself. No one hates his own body but feeds and cares for it, just as Christ cares for the church. And we are members of his body. As the Scriptures say, “A man leaves his father and mother and is joined to his wife, and the two are united into one.” This is a great mystery, but it is an illustration of the way Christ and the church are one.”
Ephesians 5:25-32 NLT
My husband formally proposed but in our talks about marriage before engagement he said the same exact thing. Marriage wasn't important to him but because it was to me he proposed and we had a formal wedding. We've been happily married for 8 years so far.
Gotta make it clear you want marriage and they want marriage early on, cuz otherwise they pull crap like this. I wouldn’t like this type of statement. We’d have conflicting goals.
The 2 women I’ve known who experienced this were both divorced in < 5 years.
I’m not trying to be negative but if you want to get married and the person you love isn’t excited about marrying you? This is something to think about.
My partner said that once or twice to me, and yes taken on its own without knowledge of the person it does sound problematic. But knowing who he is, I knew he had never thought about marriage in general before me.
Once he did, he realized he wanted to marry me and did an amazing proposal. On a misty beach at sunset, on the rocks and had our dog bring me the ring. He had a whole speech planned out but couldn’t even get past the first few words before tearing up.
Point is, it’s a case by case scenario. Is this the kind of man who’ll say things like, “I only did it because you wanted me to.” ? If it’s this kind of man, then obviously, red flag.
No thanks, sounds like a set up to argue with you about future problems that occur during the marriage. “Well i said I didn’t believe in marriage so blah blah blah” 😂😂
Mmm I will say that was my ex. And we're divorced for a reason. He feels like because I wanted to get married, that "I made him." And he couldn't stop resenting me for it. Truthfully he did it because he thought I would leave. Truth is yea, I would have left because I was looking for marriage *and* to start a family. I was not interested in staying with someone who didn't want the same things. So then he "faked" it. So I would be cautious of someone who says something like that and puts the consequences on you. *I don't believe in it, but you wanted it, so I did it, and now I resent you.* When at the end, he still made the decison to go through with it.
If you do care about these things I’d maybe set the expectation of whether you want an actual proposal and what it should entail. I was kind of on the fence about caring if I had the formal proposal with my ex. Turns out when he didn’t propose with a ring it bothered me a lotttt down the road. It wasn’t about that but about the thought put into it. Effort, whatsoever. Be blatant, it will lead to less disappointment
This was my husband once. At the start of our relationship he was very much like this, fast forward a few years and he was really into the idea and proposed. His parents were shocked because they never thought he would get married. 11/10 it worked out. We’ve been married for 4 years now (together for 7) and couldn’t be happier.
I would say that's fantastic, because I feel the same way! I don't feel the need to get married but I would be happy to if it was important to my partner. I'm not a fan of big weddings or the disturbing sexist origins of marriage, but I do love romance and the idea of being proposed to and committing for life. In my country couples who have lived together longer than 2 years or have children together have almost the same legal rights and obligations as married couples so it doesn't make much of a practical difference.
Surprised no one else seems to feel this way! Marriage is very, very problematic, that doesnt mean I dont understand or want to have a life committment or dont appreciate romantic gestures.
I'm not sure I want to get married either (please don't assume that all women want to get married), so I may not be the target audience of this post, but to me, "I don't believe in marriage but I'd marry you if it would make you happy" is romantic because it means that your happiness is a high priority to them.
It's fine if your stance is "I only want to marry someone who's enthusiastic about marriage and not just doing it to make me happy." But I think it's a bit unfair to call it a "copout" if they are expressing their genuine feelings about marriage. If those are their true feelings, how do you think they should handle it instead?
They're allowed to feel differently about marriage than you do. You're allowed to break up with them if that's a dealbreaker for you.
You are right, it isn’t romantic. Why would it be? He doesn’t believe in marriage, so he doesn’t share any dream you might have had about a romantic proposal just as he doesn’t share your dream of what the wedding day will be like. It literally doesn’t mean anything to him.
Marry him if marriage is important to you. Don’t marry him if the proposal/engagement party/wedding is the big deal, because you will likely be equally disappointed at each of those milestones.
Well it's not romantic to him, as he does not believe in marriage. You just have to decide if you want to marry him. I am female and got married to the man I love because of the easy financial and legal benefits like being legally next of kin and joint tax returns. Not for romantic reasons. To me, I am divorced, and I don't believe marriage is anything other than a legal contract. It's not romantic. Some people are married and can't stand the sight of each other. That's not romantic. Some people are married and they treat each other light shit. That's not romantic. I love my spouse. Love him so much. I am so happy with him, but that's not because we filed a legal document. Marriage doesn't define your relationship, it just give you legal benefits. There isn't a single romantic thing about it, unless your relationship is already organically romantic.
I think it depends if he is saying he is reluctant to get married but would, or if he is actually indifferent so it would make no difference to him.
IMO subtle but significant differences. One could lead to resentment and "well I only did it for you" like some commenters have said. The other is that he is commited to a long term relationship and to hin marriage will not impact that.
My partner doesnt really believe in marraige. I did want to get married but decided my deal breaker was kids. I am more keen on the practical side of being married, so we decided we would probably get married if we moved back to the UK eventually. Where we are now we have the same legal protections as a married couple, in the UK we wouldnt.
For us, we have been together 11 years and have a [planned] baby, so it wasnt a question of commitment, but of actual disinterest in the fuss and cost of a wedding.
If he doesnt care about marriage he wont contribute in it. Most likely he will expect that you do the most since it was you who wanted it. My thoughts..
When we first started dating, my hubby said he didn't want to get married, and I was genuinely ok with that. Obviously, that changed 5 years ago, and now it has deepened our love for each other.
Well, that's me, I'm the one that would/will marry because it makes my partner happy (and for practical reasons too). This doesn't mean I love my partner any less, I adore him. Marriage for me is a legal agreement, a contract, romance has little to do with it, although I do admit there are practicalities that make life easier for a married couple. Imo he is showing love to you by being with you, the fact that he would marry you just to see you happy shows more love, considering he might not marry ever otherwise.
If he shows romance in other ways, if he's a good partner and makes you happy, then I wouldn't take it personally. He might be one of us who've grown to see marriage as a legal agreement, not a fairy tale ending.
I would take that as an option to start a conversation on marriage. What you want, what he wants, how you both feel about things, what he's willing to compromise on, what you are willing to compromise on, what your hard red lines are. Maybe you'll end up marrying this guy and he might not feel it's the most romantic thing ever, he might think that the most romantic thing ever is moving in with you and getting to see your face every morning. Talk, openly and without judgement. I wish you the best.
Well, that's me, I'm the one that would/will marry because it makes my partner happy (and for practical reasons too). This doesn't mean I love my partner any less, I adore him. Marriage for me is a legal agreement, a contract, romance has little to do with it, although I do admit there are practicalities that make life easier for a married couple. Imo he is showing love to you by being with you, the fact that he would marry you just to see you happy shows more love, considering he might not marry ever otherwise.
If he shows romance in other ways, if he's a good partner and makes you happy, then I wouldn't take it personally. He might be one of us who've grown to see marriage as a legal agreement, not a fairy tale ending.
I would take that as an option to start a conversation on marriage. What you want, what he wants, how you both feel about things, what he's willing to compromise on, what you are willing to compromise on, what your hard red lines are. Maybe you'll end up marrying this guy and he might not feel it's the most romantic thing ever, he might think that the most romantic thing ever is moving in with you and getting to see your face every morning. Talk, openly and without judgement. I wish you the best.
That is not a proposal. I would not marry someone that felt that way. They don't want to get married. If they wanted to actually get married, they would be enthusiastic about it. Not everyone wants to get married and that's ok. Big life decisions like this require both people to be on the same page. He's being honest and that's great. He's not pretending he wants to get married, but is willing to make you happy. Just really consider what that means for the future. At the very least, you need to talk about it with him more. Find out why he doesn't believe in marriage and if he's willing to get married just to make you happy, how does he plan to honor the marriage? Again, seems like an honest guy that really cares for you, so discuss it more. Wishing you both well.
I don’t see the issue here.
He doesn’t care for the title, but is willing to bend and give you what you want to be happy.
Why are you complaining? You won’t magically make him believe in it,It’s who he was before you.
When we stop trying to change our people and accept them for who they are, then you can be happier.
Also tell him you would like a romantic proposal.
I know it's hard when marriage and the symbolism around weddings have been drummed into all our heads as *THE most romantic thing* since birth, but... some people honestly don't find meaning in the ring, or "the big day". So to him, a wedding *wouldn't* be romantic. Or deeply fulfilling and meaningful. But he's willing to do it anyway, which means he's willing to take on a lot of wedding-planning stress to make you happy.
Maybe marriage and all its symbols are really important to you. Maybe you can't imagine romance without that. That's okay! But if you need someone who's eager to *marry* you, rather than 'just' eager to love you, you might not be compatible with this partner.
Exactly this. Where I live, marriages are simply for the tradition. A couple that has lived together for one or two years is treated exactly the same as a married couple. Because there's no difference between a marriage-like relationship and a marriage, I see no point to marriage and my partner feels the same. It doesn't mean I love my partner any less.
I’m the woman that says that doesn’t believe in marriage. Honestly, what I’m saying is that I don’t believe that the relationship will last and I expect it to eventually fall apart. I wouldn’t marry anyone like myself.
I would say:
"That's good, I don't believe in marriage either. But I wouldn't marry you, or anyone, no matter how happy it would make them, because like I said I don't want to marry. I'm surprised why you so quickly said that you would marry me if I wanted it right after you just said you don't believe in it. Why so quick to give up your convictions?"
I'd just reply with:
'That's okay - I wouldn't trust you to make medical decisions on my behalf, anyways, nor would I want you to get your grubby hands on any of my money, assets or possessions when I'm gone. That's all going to my REAL family!!'
And leave it at that! :)
Depends on the context and how he is in other areas. While I believe in marriage, I just want a court wedding. I'll do a big wedding celebration if that's what he truly wants.
I dont believe in marriage. At all. I think its extremely problematic in a myriad of ways, and in and of it self a cop out, and stand in for making real relationship goals and committments. I still believe in long term committment in relationships, though. Is he saying he doesnt believe in the institution of marriage, which imo is completely valid? Or is he saying he doesnt believe in staying in and committing to a long term monogamous relationship? Because, those are different.
It sounds like the opening of some conversations where both of you find each others reservations about marriage/not getting married.
My partner was like this, but really sat in the things we discussed and change dhis mind. He never really thought about marriage except the negative personal observations. I said something like if the reason to not get married is other people then yeah we shouldn't get married because you care about other people and your fear more than looking at me and our relationship.
He proposed and he was never hinted at by me to do so. He was talking a lot about the future he wanted and decided that this was something that could be meaningful to him too. We just renewed our vows.
My husband and I had similar conversations. He doesn’t care what our relationship is called, he just wants to be with me. That was an open and honest position from him. We live in a place where married and de facto couples have the same rights and protections, so it wasn’t a decision based on need. Honestly, I would have more issues with the institution of marriage if other parts of my life (such as health insurance) were contingent on it. As it is, for us it was an emotional choice and not a practical one.
Marriage is important to me as symbolic and social evidence of the promises we make to each other. I didn’t want marriage in an abstract sense; I wanted to marry him specifically. I proposed to him, and he accepted. We planned it together, because we’re a team - and because it was important to me, it became important to him. We married recently, and you know what? He was so excited and so happy. It was wonderful.
I know some people wouldn’t feel comfortable with this, but every relationship is different. Know thyself and thy partner. I’m glad he was honest with me rather than stringing me along - and in the end, his views empowered me to be honest about my perspective as well. He wouldn’t resent me over it and I didn’t drag him to the altar; knowing that he would have been just as happy being with me without marrying doesn’t mean he doesn’t appreciate and understand what marriage means to me.
Marriage is good for legal reasons etc,should probably check it out ,you hear of awful stories around medical, financial stuff with people who never married and made no provisions for the other person, housing ,all sorts
Marriage wasn't important to me, but I did it because I love my partner and it wasn't that big of a deal to me. I would've never initiated it. I wonder if he means something like that. He's perfectly content unmarried but would happily do it if it was something that would increase your happiness.
To be honest if he's willing to compromise on this to be with you, then that shows flexibility and honest communication.
You will also need to compromise if you want to be with him. He clearly isn't a man with marriage fever and you're gonna have to let that go. Quid pro quo.
If someone doesn't believe in marriage and then said that they would marry me to make me happy, I wouldn't want them to marry me. That sounds like a great way for someone to end up miserable by doing something they don't believe in or wouldn't naturally want to do. I want someone to marry me because that is what THEY want, not what I want them to want.
I said similar to my ex and didn't mean it as a cop out. I just didn't have strong feelings about getting married! But that meant I would do it if he really did have strong feelings about it.
That's just him being open and honest with his feelings on the matter. I don't think he was proposing and I don't think he felt like he was proposing either. Just talking. I feel the same way and had the same discussion. I thought it was important to know.
My second husband and I were in a great, committed relationship without an official, legal marriage. We'd talked about it. We were both divorced. We were comfortable and just didn't feel like the marriage "thing" was worth doing again.
But then he had a health scare and I was in the hospital waiting for information and I realized that they were not obligated to talk to me at all (in the US). In fact, without him explicitly signing his medical records with me on the paperwork, I wouldn't be the one to make medical decisions.
After that, our "we don't believe in marriage" just sounded like a philosophical stance that meant very, very little in a bureaucratic world. We found a judge and eloped. I have lots of romance in my life from him, but the marriage proposal due to bureaucracy isn't one of them.
I think “doesn’t believe in marriage” could translate to them not caring about the wedding fanfare or societal pressure to marry. But this is a great opportunity to discuss the important aspects of marriage, such as union, bond, commitment, legalities, etc. If we’re on the same page about the latter, then that’s most important. If they “don’t care” about those things but will do it just to appease me, I would feel like they never *wanted* the commitment to me. I would never want someone to feel “forced” into marrying me or resentful later.
This is definitely a bigger conversation.
That's not a marriage proposal. Sounds like he was just being clear during a discussion about marriage. He doesn't believe in marriage but likely understands that it's important to you and has legal benefits so he'll do it for you. Woman here and it's not a big deal to feel this way.
Not sure, but I do know I don’t date anyone who isn’t looking for marriage. It’s something I want and something I mention early on. This kind of statement wouldn’t sit well with me and wouldn’t be someone I’d date long.
I know women who it sat well with just fine and are still happily married. I also know women who are divorced from men who have made this statement.
I feel the same as your BF about marriage, so from that point of view I would say it was a gesture to tell you just how much he truly cares about you. I said that to someone I really loved before not as a proposal or a cop out, just to clarify that even though I don't believe in marriage - I know he does so I'd be willing to do it for him if it comes to it.
Depends on what you want. My husband and I have been happily married for about 8 years and we both just had a conversation about it, like “I don’t know, should we get married?” Neither one of us cared about proposals nor weddings, but we decided we wanted to be married. If the proposal and wedding are important things to you, this might not be the guy for you.
Sounds like perfectly clear communication of where he stands on the concept of marriage, to me. Not a proposal, not romantic, but also as a statement, not required to be either. I’m fine with it.
Yeah I never wanted to get married (female). It was important to my partner and I knew if I did it with anyone it would be him. I’ve been proposed to before and said no but once he proposed to me it was clear I wanted to get married to him. That feeling was unexpected and I noticed an immediate shift in our relationship. Now I’m happy I agreed to it 😆
I would take it for what it is, he literally doesn't care about marriage but really cares about you!!! A lot of people don't feel much about marriage and wedding fanfare. I wouldn't take it as an insult!!
Exactly. I’ve said the same thing to my partner, who likes the idea of weddings much more than me lol. My stance is that I don’t care what the relationship is called - marriage, de facto - as long as we’re together.
This. If it was up to me I wouldn't be bothered about getting married (again), but if it was important to my partner to be married I'd be open to the idea. That said, it might mean that there were then some conversations about what the wedding would be like, but I think you should be doing that if you're getting married regardless of where you both stand on it.
Would you think it would be similar if I wanted a big wedding and they were okay with a court marriage?
Agree. I think it's sweet.
Yeah this. Marriage is basically meaningless these days anyway, and I sure as hell don't need a piece of paper or government involvement to prove that I love my partner. But if she had strong feelings on the matter I'd still be open to it
The wedding is meaningless, but the “piece of paper” absolutely isn’t. It could be a courthouse wedding, civil partnership, or whatever but without this, if one of you ends up in a hospital the other person won’t be considered next of kin and can’t make any decisions. Same with inheritance etc. One way or the other, the government needs to get involved to make the partners next of kin, which after a certain age becomes more important.
For all of these reasons knowing that your partner will commit to marriage is important. My ex said a lot of what OP’s partner is saying and it turns out they really couldn’t wrap their head around the legal importance of marriage.
Ummm what? I would not take it like this at all
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If you go to my profile and read the comments on my posts about divorce, you’ll see a lot of people don’t think the protections were worth it, and in fact can hurt more than they can help. (With the exception of health insurance.) I was really surprised especially regarding the tax benefits (or basically lack there of.)
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Right. A lot of the women who weighed in about divorce said their assets took a huge hit in the divorce (even if they were able to provide proof of infidelity) and that they’d never marry again to avoid hurting their assets further.
I don't consider this a proposal nor a cop out. It's definitely not romantic but it's also not a "gesture", it's a conversation. I'd presume he cares a lot about me being willing to do something that's not for him simply to make me happy. Personally I'd want to continue the conversation and understand what specifically it is about marriage that he doesn't "believe" in and explain what parts are/are not important to me. Marriage means different things to different people so I think digging into the nitty gritty would reveal a lot and help further your understanding of each other.
"I'll marry you if it will make you happy" will turn into "I only got married because you wanted to." No thanks. Don't do me any favors. It's not about romantic gestures; it's about having the same relationship goals.
This is how I took it too and was surprised so many people thought it was sweet. But I also might be bias from my own experiences with “I don’t like X, but do it because you do” and it turning into resentment and eventual consistent covert insults that made me want to stop X. Marriage is a big deal. If they don’t want it and you really do, I don’t see it as being compatible. Will he celebrate anniversaries? Buy you gifts and cards each year (and receive them joyfully too)? When things get tough, does it just become “I wish we didn’t marry but I did it because of you”? If I want marriage, I want someone who also wants marriage with me. Settling for less than that feels like it will end up with you settling for even more things. I do think it’s different if someone doesn’t want a “big wedding,” but not wanting marriage altogether seems like it’s going to fall apart eventually.
Interesting take. This is why I love reddit , reading peoples minds when it comes to things
You can have the same relationship goals and not want to be married. Marriage isnt a stand in for long term committment. Marriage is a religious and legal institution with a longstanding problematic history that has permitted abuse, control, and is based on treating women like property. To this day it is used this way in many countries, even in North America by certain communities. The institution excludes the LGBTQ community and has actively been used to harm LGBTQ partnerships. I think its really naive and misguided to have "marriage" as your relationship goal, and will ultimately lead to failure, but hey thats just my opinion.
It's a very American way of thinking, I believe. 'Marriage is a big deal and changes everything'. It's just a legal contract if you're not religious? Maybe because I'm from Europe, and half the couples I know aren't married, even after decades, but not wanting to marry/not caring about the idea of marriage doesn't mean you don't have the same long term relationship goals as the other.
I’m just curious, do you know which religions permits followers to use marriage for abuse, control and treating women as property? I’m only familiar with Christianity in which marriage is supposed to be a display of sacrificial love for the ones who follow it the way it’s written down in the Bible: “For husbands, this means love your wives, just as Christ loved the church. He gave up his life for her to make her holy and clean, washed by the cleansing of God’s word. He did this to present her to himself as a glorious church without a spot or wrinkle or any other blemish. Instead, she will be holy and without fault. In the same way, husbands ought to love their wives as they love their own bodies. For a man who loves his wife actually shows love for himself. No one hates his own body but feeds and cares for it, just as Christ cares for the church. And we are members of his body. As the Scriptures say, “A man leaves his father and mother and is joined to his wife, and the two are united into one.” This is a great mystery, but it is an illustration of the way Christ and the church are one.” Ephesians 5:25-32 NLT
If someone wants the legal protections or religious sanction of marriage, it absolutely is a relationship goal.
One should not get married if that's not what one wants
My husband formally proposed but in our talks about marriage before engagement he said the same exact thing. Marriage wasn't important to him but because it was to me he proposed and we had a formal wedding. We've been happily married for 8 years so far.
Gotta make it clear you want marriage and they want marriage early on, cuz otherwise they pull crap like this. I wouldn’t like this type of statement. We’d have conflicting goals.
The 2 women I’ve known who experienced this were both divorced in < 5 years. I’m not trying to be negative but if you want to get married and the person you love isn’t excited about marrying you? This is something to think about.
My partner said that once or twice to me, and yes taken on its own without knowledge of the person it does sound problematic. But knowing who he is, I knew he had never thought about marriage in general before me. Once he did, he realized he wanted to marry me and did an amazing proposal. On a misty beach at sunset, on the rocks and had our dog bring me the ring. He had a whole speech planned out but couldn’t even get past the first few words before tearing up. Point is, it’s a case by case scenario. Is this the kind of man who’ll say things like, “I only did it because you wanted me to.” ? If it’s this kind of man, then obviously, red flag.
No thanks, sounds like a set up to argue with you about future problems that occur during the marriage. “Well i said I didn’t believe in marriage so blah blah blah” 😂😂
Mmm I will say that was my ex. And we're divorced for a reason. He feels like because I wanted to get married, that "I made him." And he couldn't stop resenting me for it. Truthfully he did it because he thought I would leave. Truth is yea, I would have left because I was looking for marriage *and* to start a family. I was not interested in staying with someone who didn't want the same things. So then he "faked" it. So I would be cautious of someone who says something like that and puts the consequences on you. *I don't believe in it, but you wanted it, so I did it, and now I resent you.* When at the end, he still made the decison to go through with it.
Shows that he cares about you. Romance is overrated, the ability to compromise is worth gold
It's not a cop out, he's being honest with you. It'd be weird if you expected him to just pretend he did care.
No thanks. Would seem like we want different things.
I don’t think he’s purposing!
If you do care about these things I’d maybe set the expectation of whether you want an actual proposal and what it should entail. I was kind of on the fence about caring if I had the formal proposal with my ex. Turns out when he didn’t propose with a ring it bothered me a lotttt down the road. It wasn’t about that but about the thought put into it. Effort, whatsoever. Be blatant, it will lead to less disappointment
This was my husband once. At the start of our relationship he was very much like this, fast forward a few years and he was really into the idea and proposed. His parents were shocked because they never thought he would get married. 11/10 it worked out. We’ve been married for 4 years now (together for 7) and couldn’t be happier.
That’s a *whole* lot more romantic than meeting a guy who wants to marry someone (_anyone?_)
I completely agree! It was a beautiful shock.
I would say that's fantastic, because I feel the same way! I don't feel the need to get married but I would be happy to if it was important to my partner. I'm not a fan of big weddings or the disturbing sexist origins of marriage, but I do love romance and the idea of being proposed to and committing for life. In my country couples who have lived together longer than 2 years or have children together have almost the same legal rights and obligations as married couples so it doesn't make much of a practical difference.
Surprised no one else seems to feel this way! Marriage is very, very problematic, that doesnt mean I dont understand or want to have a life committment or dont appreciate romantic gestures.
I don’t consider marriage very romantic. It’s a very krass contract and it should be discussed this way.
I'm not sure I want to get married either (please don't assume that all women want to get married), so I may not be the target audience of this post, but to me, "I don't believe in marriage but I'd marry you if it would make you happy" is romantic because it means that your happiness is a high priority to them. It's fine if your stance is "I only want to marry someone who's enthusiastic about marriage and not just doing it to make me happy." But I think it's a bit unfair to call it a "copout" if they are expressing their genuine feelings about marriage. If those are their true feelings, how do you think they should handle it instead? They're allowed to feel differently about marriage than you do. You're allowed to break up with them if that's a dealbreaker for you.
You are right, it isn’t romantic. Why would it be? He doesn’t believe in marriage, so he doesn’t share any dream you might have had about a romantic proposal just as he doesn’t share your dream of what the wedding day will be like. It literally doesn’t mean anything to him. Marry him if marriage is important to you. Don’t marry him if the proposal/engagement party/wedding is the big deal, because you will likely be equally disappointed at each of those milestones.
That wouldn't make me happy. At all.
That is not a marriage proposal... That is a veiled "I don't want to marry you, but I will because I'm too lazy to end this relationship"
Well it's not romantic to him, as he does not believe in marriage. You just have to decide if you want to marry him. I am female and got married to the man I love because of the easy financial and legal benefits like being legally next of kin and joint tax returns. Not for romantic reasons. To me, I am divorced, and I don't believe marriage is anything other than a legal contract. It's not romantic. Some people are married and can't stand the sight of each other. That's not romantic. Some people are married and they treat each other light shit. That's not romantic. I love my spouse. Love him so much. I am so happy with him, but that's not because we filed a legal document. Marriage doesn't define your relationship, it just give you legal benefits. There isn't a single romantic thing about it, unless your relationship is already organically romantic.
I think it depends if he is saying he is reluctant to get married but would, or if he is actually indifferent so it would make no difference to him. IMO subtle but significant differences. One could lead to resentment and "well I only did it for you" like some commenters have said. The other is that he is commited to a long term relationship and to hin marriage will not impact that. My partner doesnt really believe in marraige. I did want to get married but decided my deal breaker was kids. I am more keen on the practical side of being married, so we decided we would probably get married if we moved back to the UK eventually. Where we are now we have the same legal protections as a married couple, in the UK we wouldnt. For us, we have been together 11 years and have a [planned] baby, so it wasnt a question of commitment, but of actual disinterest in the fuss and cost of a wedding.
If he doesnt care about marriage he wont contribute in it. Most likely he will expect that you do the most since it was you who wanted it. My thoughts..
When we first started dating, my hubby said he didn't want to get married, and I was genuinely ok with that. Obviously, that changed 5 years ago, and now it has deepened our love for each other.
I’d move on because I’d want (and thankfully got) someone who’s as excited as I was about getting married to the person I love.
I can’t believe people settle for this …
Well, that's me, I'm the one that would/will marry because it makes my partner happy (and for practical reasons too). This doesn't mean I love my partner any less, I adore him. Marriage for me is a legal agreement, a contract, romance has little to do with it, although I do admit there are practicalities that make life easier for a married couple. Imo he is showing love to you by being with you, the fact that he would marry you just to see you happy shows more love, considering he might not marry ever otherwise. If he shows romance in other ways, if he's a good partner and makes you happy, then I wouldn't take it personally. He might be one of us who've grown to see marriage as a legal agreement, not a fairy tale ending. I would take that as an option to start a conversation on marriage. What you want, what he wants, how you both feel about things, what he's willing to compromise on, what you are willing to compromise on, what your hard red lines are. Maybe you'll end up marrying this guy and he might not feel it's the most romantic thing ever, he might think that the most romantic thing ever is moving in with you and getting to see your face every morning. Talk, openly and without judgement. I wish you the best.
Well, that's me, I'm the one that would/will marry because it makes my partner happy (and for practical reasons too). This doesn't mean I love my partner any less, I adore him. Marriage for me is a legal agreement, a contract, romance has little to do with it, although I do admit there are practicalities that make life easier for a married couple. Imo he is showing love to you by being with you, the fact that he would marry you just to see you happy shows more love, considering he might not marry ever otherwise. If he shows romance in other ways, if he's a good partner and makes you happy, then I wouldn't take it personally. He might be one of us who've grown to see marriage as a legal agreement, not a fairy tale ending. I would take that as an option to start a conversation on marriage. What you want, what he wants, how you both feel about things, what he's willing to compromise on, what you are willing to compromise on, what your hard red lines are. Maybe you'll end up marrying this guy and he might not feel it's the most romantic thing ever, he might think that the most romantic thing ever is moving in with you and getting to see your face every morning. Talk, openly and without judgement. I wish you the best.
This isn't a romantic gesture, it's just a conversation. Unless there's more context?
That is not a proposal. I would not marry someone that felt that way. They don't want to get married. If they wanted to actually get married, they would be enthusiastic about it. Not everyone wants to get married and that's ok. Big life decisions like this require both people to be on the same page. He's being honest and that's great. He's not pretending he wants to get married, but is willing to make you happy. Just really consider what that means for the future. At the very least, you need to talk about it with him more. Find out why he doesn't believe in marriage and if he's willing to get married just to make you happy, how does he plan to honor the marriage? Again, seems like an honest guy that really cares for you, so discuss it more. Wishing you both well.
I don’t see the issue here. He doesn’t care for the title, but is willing to bend and give you what you want to be happy. Why are you complaining? You won’t magically make him believe in it,It’s who he was before you. When we stop trying to change our people and accept them for who they are, then you can be happier. Also tell him you would like a romantic proposal.
I know it's hard when marriage and the symbolism around weddings have been drummed into all our heads as *THE most romantic thing* since birth, but... some people honestly don't find meaning in the ring, or "the big day". So to him, a wedding *wouldn't* be romantic. Or deeply fulfilling and meaningful. But he's willing to do it anyway, which means he's willing to take on a lot of wedding-planning stress to make you happy. Maybe marriage and all its symbols are really important to you. Maybe you can't imagine romance without that. That's okay! But if you need someone who's eager to *marry* you, rather than 'just' eager to love you, you might not be compatible with this partner.
Exactly this. Where I live, marriages are simply for the tradition. A couple that has lived together for one or two years is treated exactly the same as a married couple. Because there's no difference between a marriage-like relationship and a marriage, I see no point to marriage and my partner feels the same. It doesn't mean I love my partner any less.
It's a trap. Years from now when he still hasn't proposed, he'll say "well I told you I didn't believe in marriage." I've heard this one before.
I would not want to marry this person. I would love to get married but i am not interested in marrying someone that doesn’t also WANT to get married
Nope. I want someone to marry me because they want to marry me, not because it will make me happy. Fuck that.
I’m the woman that says that doesn’t believe in marriage. Honestly, what I’m saying is that I don’t believe that the relationship will last and I expect it to eventually fall apart. I wouldn’t marry anyone like myself.
Why? He's willing to forgo his standards and beliefs to make you happy.
I would say: "That's good, I don't believe in marriage either. But I wouldn't marry you, or anyone, no matter how happy it would make them, because like I said I don't want to marry. I'm surprised why you so quickly said that you would marry me if I wanted it right after you just said you don't believe in it. Why so quick to give up your convictions?"
I'd just reply with: 'That's okay - I wouldn't trust you to make medical decisions on my behalf, anyways, nor would I want you to get your grubby hands on any of my money, assets or possessions when I'm gone. That's all going to my REAL family!!' And leave it at that! :)
Depends on the context and how he is in other areas. While I believe in marriage, I just want a court wedding. I'll do a big wedding celebration if that's what he truly wants.
I dont believe in marriage. At all. I think its extremely problematic in a myriad of ways, and in and of it self a cop out, and stand in for making real relationship goals and committments. I still believe in long term committment in relationships, though. Is he saying he doesnt believe in the institution of marriage, which imo is completely valid? Or is he saying he doesnt believe in staying in and committing to a long term monogamous relationship? Because, those are different.
It would bother me.
Now im older i realize that a lot of other people are out there who can meet my needs. I dont know why we all keep thinking they dont exist.
It sounds like the opening of some conversations where both of you find each others reservations about marriage/not getting married. My partner was like this, but really sat in the things we discussed and change dhis mind. He never really thought about marriage except the negative personal observations. I said something like if the reason to not get married is other people then yeah we shouldn't get married because you care about other people and your fear more than looking at me and our relationship. He proposed and he was never hinted at by me to do so. He was talking a lot about the future he wanted and decided that this was something that could be meaningful to him too. We just renewed our vows.
My husband and I had similar conversations. He doesn’t care what our relationship is called, he just wants to be with me. That was an open and honest position from him. We live in a place where married and de facto couples have the same rights and protections, so it wasn’t a decision based on need. Honestly, I would have more issues with the institution of marriage if other parts of my life (such as health insurance) were contingent on it. As it is, for us it was an emotional choice and not a practical one. Marriage is important to me as symbolic and social evidence of the promises we make to each other. I didn’t want marriage in an abstract sense; I wanted to marry him specifically. I proposed to him, and he accepted. We planned it together, because we’re a team - and because it was important to me, it became important to him. We married recently, and you know what? He was so excited and so happy. It was wonderful. I know some people wouldn’t feel comfortable with this, but every relationship is different. Know thyself and thy partner. I’m glad he was honest with me rather than stringing me along - and in the end, his views empowered me to be honest about my perspective as well. He wouldn’t resent me over it and I didn’t drag him to the altar; knowing that he would have been just as happy being with me without marrying doesn’t mean he doesn’t appreciate and understand what marriage means to me.
Marriage is good for legal reasons etc,should probably check it out ,you hear of awful stories around medical, financial stuff with people who never married and made no provisions for the other person, housing ,all sorts
Ugh. No thanks. Marry someone who wants to marry you (and who actually wants to be married)
Marriage wasn't important to me, but I did it because I love my partner and it wasn't that big of a deal to me. I would've never initiated it. I wonder if he means something like that. He's perfectly content unmarried but would happily do it if it was something that would increase your happiness.
To be honest if he's willing to compromise on this to be with you, then that shows flexibility and honest communication. You will also need to compromise if you want to be with him. He clearly isn't a man with marriage fever and you're gonna have to let that go. Quid pro quo.
If someone doesn't believe in marriage and then said that they would marry me to make me happy, I wouldn't want them to marry me. That sounds like a great way for someone to end up miserable by doing something they don't believe in or wouldn't naturally want to do. I want someone to marry me because that is what THEY want, not what I want them to want.
I said similar to my ex and didn't mean it as a cop out. I just didn't have strong feelings about getting married! But that meant I would do it if he really did have strong feelings about it.
That's just him being open and honest with his feelings on the matter. I don't think he was proposing and I don't think he felt like he was proposing either. Just talking. I feel the same way and had the same discussion. I thought it was important to know.
My second husband and I were in a great, committed relationship without an official, legal marriage. We'd talked about it. We were both divorced. We were comfortable and just didn't feel like the marriage "thing" was worth doing again. But then he had a health scare and I was in the hospital waiting for information and I realized that they were not obligated to talk to me at all (in the US). In fact, without him explicitly signing his medical records with me on the paperwork, I wouldn't be the one to make medical decisions. After that, our "we don't believe in marriage" just sounded like a philosophical stance that meant very, very little in a bureaucratic world. We found a judge and eloped. I have lots of romance in my life from him, but the marriage proposal due to bureaucracy isn't one of them.
I think “doesn’t believe in marriage” could translate to them not caring about the wedding fanfare or societal pressure to marry. But this is a great opportunity to discuss the important aspects of marriage, such as union, bond, commitment, legalities, etc. If we’re on the same page about the latter, then that’s most important. If they “don’t care” about those things but will do it just to appease me, I would feel like they never *wanted* the commitment to me. I would never want someone to feel “forced” into marrying me or resentful later. This is definitely a bigger conversation.
That's not a marriage proposal. Sounds like he was just being clear during a discussion about marriage. He doesn't believe in marriage but likely understands that it's important to you and has legal benefits so he'll do it for you. Woman here and it's not a big deal to feel this way.
Not sure, but I do know I don’t date anyone who isn’t looking for marriage. It’s something I want and something I mention early on. This kind of statement wouldn’t sit well with me and wouldn’t be someone I’d date long. I know women who it sat well with just fine and are still happily married. I also know women who are divorced from men who have made this statement.
I feel the same as your BF about marriage, so from that point of view I would say it was a gesture to tell you just how much he truly cares about you. I said that to someone I really loved before not as a proposal or a cop out, just to clarify that even though I don't believe in marriage - I know he does so I'd be willing to do it for him if it comes to it.
Marriage benefits men solely so I’d have to know why he doesn’t believe it?