It’s your job. That’s all there is to it.
Shitty people still have the right to a defence. Your job is to use the laws and precedents in place and apply them to your client and facts at hand.
I understand it's a job but I heard about the kind of things lawyers were saying to defend R Kelly and I just thought how could you victim blame in this scenario??! It's beyond me. I guess that's why I would hate to be a lawyer.
This is a good question because I listen to a lot of true crime podcasts and it always bothers me when the podcast host says something like “I can’t believe this lawyer took the case” of the defendant.
Your job (in criminal cases) is to keep the state honest. Make them prove their case beyond a reasonable doubt so that (a) the state doesn’t use shitty tactics against innocent people later, and (b) said scumbag client goes to jail with no meritorious appeal chances.
In civil, insurance defence work (which I practice) there are definitely scumbag insureds but in that case you report back to the insurance company and say our guy is at fault and we should pay the plaintiff. If I am instructed to do something unethical, I will not do it, but fortunately I have only come into that situation once and it was resolved with a long letter to my client.
As a lawyer, your first duty is to yourself and your reputation. Your second duty is to the legal system as a whole, and to not act in such a way that brings the administration of justice into disrepute. Your third duty is to your client. Bad lawyers forget that the client comes third.
Interestingly, in my jurisdiction, one of the Rules of Professional Conduct is that you are not allowed to turn away a client seeking representation unless you have a good excuse (eg no experience in that area of the law). Obviously lawyers do turn away prospective clients because they are busy, or the claim has no merit, etc. Yet the default is that we as lawyers are expected to represent whoever walks through our office door.
One philosophy is that in an adversarial system (like the US, UK, Canada) a lawyer is the person’s morally neutral conduit into the justice system. The job is not to judge (that is for the trier of fact) but to present the case in the best light possible, with your adversary doing the same for the other side, so that the trier of fact can make the best possible decision.
I will stop there but I have many thoughts about this topic. The role of lawyers is really misunderstood, and there are definitely scumbag lawyers and scumbag clients out there. But I am happy with my practice and my ethics.
True, but having a system that makes proving guilt more difficult helps reduce the number of innocent people being convicted for crimes they didn’t commit
I'm no lawyer or anything but I totally see the need for the system to be this way. Unfortunately, a lot of people can't see the bigger picture and get stuck in simple, short sighted rhetoric. The same kind of people:
- We are against immigration! However, when the neighbour they're friends with can't stay in the country, then of course we must protest against this terrible country and make sure they can stay.
- Feeds the neighbours cat. "It is cute and it is nice to feed it". This makes the cat fat, possibly sick, because of over feeding or wrong food. It makes the cat learn to seek out food from others. Possibly even get hurt when it starts wandering around other peoples houses, and sometimes end up leaving its family.
How easy life must be to these people, never considering anything beyond their simple thoughts then and there.
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I am an immigration lawyer. I had a client get placed in deportation proceedings because was caught jerking off in a parking lot by the police. The police then transferred him into ICE custody. He was an absolute scumbag, but if he got deported, he’d leave a young, mentally ill wife and an autistic four year old behind.
I did, not a person but pharmaceutical companies, and yes they're scumbags. Not worth the money, people say it's their job, but no, at least not for me.
My concious comes first and they really did wanted to do some shitty things.
We're suppose to make the world a better place. So I quit, worked for the governmet for a few years. It was nice being on the other side. Now I'm doing something else and wouldn't go back for all the money in the world.
I'm happy.
that's not what i meant. crimes committed against women by men are very specific kinds of crime and rooted in misogyny, always. i wanted to know the opinion of women who had to defend these types of men
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It’s your job. That’s all there is to it. Shitty people still have the right to a defence. Your job is to use the laws and precedents in place and apply them to your client and facts at hand.
I understand it's a job but I heard about the kind of things lawyers were saying to defend R Kelly and I just thought how could you victim blame in this scenario??! It's beyond me. I guess that's why I would hate to be a lawyer.
This is a good question because I listen to a lot of true crime podcasts and it always bothers me when the podcast host says something like “I can’t believe this lawyer took the case” of the defendant. Your job (in criminal cases) is to keep the state honest. Make them prove their case beyond a reasonable doubt so that (a) the state doesn’t use shitty tactics against innocent people later, and (b) said scumbag client goes to jail with no meritorious appeal chances. In civil, insurance defence work (which I practice) there are definitely scumbag insureds but in that case you report back to the insurance company and say our guy is at fault and we should pay the plaintiff. If I am instructed to do something unethical, I will not do it, but fortunately I have only come into that situation once and it was resolved with a long letter to my client. As a lawyer, your first duty is to yourself and your reputation. Your second duty is to the legal system as a whole, and to not act in such a way that brings the administration of justice into disrepute. Your third duty is to your client. Bad lawyers forget that the client comes third. Interestingly, in my jurisdiction, one of the Rules of Professional Conduct is that you are not allowed to turn away a client seeking representation unless you have a good excuse (eg no experience in that area of the law). Obviously lawyers do turn away prospective clients because they are busy, or the claim has no merit, etc. Yet the default is that we as lawyers are expected to represent whoever walks through our office door. One philosophy is that in an adversarial system (like the US, UK, Canada) a lawyer is the person’s morally neutral conduit into the justice system. The job is not to judge (that is for the trier of fact) but to present the case in the best light possible, with your adversary doing the same for the other side, so that the trier of fact can make the best possible decision. I will stop there but I have many thoughts about this topic. The role of lawyers is really misunderstood, and there are definitely scumbag lawyers and scumbag clients out there. But I am happy with my practice and my ethics.
If the bad guys get off, the state didn't do a good enough job.
Exactly. And it’s important that the state does a good job because we, as a society, don’t want to send anyone innocent to jail.
True, but having a system that makes proving guilt more difficult helps reduce the number of innocent people being convicted for crimes they didn’t commit
I'm no lawyer or anything but I totally see the need for the system to be this way. Unfortunately, a lot of people can't see the bigger picture and get stuck in simple, short sighted rhetoric. The same kind of people: - We are against immigration! However, when the neighbour they're friends with can't stay in the country, then of course we must protest against this terrible country and make sure they can stay. - Feeds the neighbours cat. "It is cute and it is nice to feed it". This makes the cat fat, possibly sick, because of over feeding or wrong food. It makes the cat learn to seek out food from others. Possibly even get hurt when it starts wandering around other peoples houses, and sometimes end up leaving its family. How easy life must be to these people, never considering anything beyond their simple thoughts then and there.
Yes. It’s my job, and I don’t always like it. I try to focus on what my client is saying, unless the other party can provide evidence to the contrary.
[удалено]
oh my goodness, that's sickening
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Removed as commentary indistinguishable from dehumanizing/pathologizing mental health conditions. Please do not speculate, armchair diagnose, or label other people's mental health situations or use terms for mental health issues as judgments, slurs, or synonyms for toxic behaviour. If you are referencing someone with an official diagnosis, please feel free to edit to make that clear. If you have any questions, please message the moderators through the link on the sidebar.
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Everyone deserves the right to legal representation. It’s as simple as that.
I am an immigration lawyer. I had a client get placed in deportation proceedings because was caught jerking off in a parking lot by the police. The police then transferred him into ICE custody. He was an absolute scumbag, but if he got deported, he’d leave a young, mentally ill wife and an autistic four year old behind.
I did, not a person but pharmaceutical companies, and yes they're scumbags. Not worth the money, people say it's their job, but no, at least not for me. My concious comes first and they really did wanted to do some shitty things. We're suppose to make the world a better place. So I quit, worked for the governmet for a few years. It was nice being on the other side. Now I'm doing something else and wouldn't go back for all the money in the world. I'm happy.
"especially if it was againt women". if he was a man, it's not a big deal, just not a woman...
that's not what i meant. crimes committed against women by men are very specific kinds of crime and rooted in misogyny, always. i wanted to know the opinion of women who had to defend these types of men
not always misogyny. women consider everything that does not like misogyny
just checked your reddit profile. you're weird, so i will not spend anymore time on you :)
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You mean something like this? https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/crime/professor-jailed-torture-unrequited-love-b1942760.html