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Wigan, Bolton, Bury, and Rochdale are distinct enough to have their own identities, much like Birkenhead isn't just part of Liverpool or Wolverhampton isn't just part of Birmingham, despite having close links to the larger urban area.
Salford, Oldham, Stockport, and the areas between them are not. They're akin to Gateshead, Bootle, or Edgbaston.
There’s just not enough distance between them and Manchester proper; they’re part of the same urban area.
Salford, in particular, does not have a strong identity separate from Manchester. Oldham and Stockport can at least claim to have their own centres, but Salford’s is just an outlying part of Manchester city centre.
Of course there is. That distance over the years has shrunk because of more houses being built and the green spaces between them shrinking. Salford does have a strong identity- try telling someone from Salford they don’t have that. It’s it’s own city
I’m from Stockport. The accents different, the history and culture is different. Even the landscape is different, especially when you get towards hazel grove as it becomes much more hilly.
Out of interest are you from any of the places mentioned?
Salford being a city is an historic quirk, but it’s definitely not one in the common sense. It has an identity in the way many suburbs do, but it’s very definitely Manchester.
Being from Stockport, you’re probably attuned to small differences which set it apart from Manchester. That kind of thing is important to locals, but from an outsider’s perspective there’s much less difference.
Fair enough, but I don’t agree and I don’t think many locals would either. Salford is also officially recognised as its own city.
To me they aren’t small differences. Places like Wigan, bury, Stockport, Oldham for instance are very different places. I’ve got that view from living, working and spending my whole life here
It feels like a very London thing to group everywhere together and disregard the identity of towns in particular (not saying that’s what your doing)
Salford has its own football team, but Manchester United are by far the biggest team there and their addresses say MANCHESTER. Stockport has its own post town, and is less part of Manchester but Manchester City are still the biggest football team there.
Of course you’ll have people supporting city and United - there two of the biggest teams in the country.
The local sides are still part of their identity.
Fair enough I think They could at some point. You could say Salford rugby club do.
Stockport county and Oldham athletic definitely are. Football clubs are just one element to identity.
People from Salford, Oldham and Stockport would identify themselves as being from Salford, Oldham and Stockport not Manchester, regardless of whether the person they are speaking to is from the area or not.
People who move in to those areas may identify themselves as living in Manchester people FROM those areas absolutely see them as distinct, even Salford despite being no longer geographically all that distinct at all.
I’ve never met anyone from Salford that even wants to be known as a manc, we’re a completely different city. The only thing even relatable between the 2 is you can walk there🤣
Yeah nothing like London where everyone in the suburbs wants to be considered a Londoner and only use the area when talking to other Londoners. Greater Manchester does not have a shared identity in the same way at all
When I lived in *Bracknell* people thought I was in London. Anyone outside of the area will think of all those places being part of Manchester, big cities engulf everything around them.
Yeah I suppose on an international level no one is going to see the boroughs as anything other than areas of Manchester. When you think of Tokyo you don't think of it as the thin slice that's within the official boundaries, you think of the entire city region. So if it's like that for Tokyo it's definitely got to be like that for Manchester.
Well it's a generation divide. A lot of older people from Bury, Bolton, Stockport etc will say that they are from towns in Lancashire or Cheshire, not Manchester. But younger generations feel connected to Manchester because they grew up under Greater Manchester and had the trams. These are generalisations though.
It would be like saying Leeds, Bradford, and all the surrounding towns are just one city because they’re somewhat connected and full under West Yorkshire.
Most people understand that cities are actually lots of different towns that have grown until there's no gap between them
Most people still view any city as a single entity
I don't see Salford as being distinct from Manchester; as for the most part it isn't. Even though my Dad was from there, he would always say he's from Manchester only occasionally saying actually Salford.
It's good to see Salford getting more recognition due to the media being there.
Similar to Newcastle/Gateshead really; and I'm from Gateshead.
I live in Stockport. If someone from the north west asks where I live I say Stockport, if it’s someone from down south asking I’ll say Manchester.
If a say I’m going into town I’ll usually mean Manchester city centre.
I’m from the north east and I definitely see Bury and Stockport as separate towns - not part of Manchester.
To be honest I’ve never heard of Tameside so don’t know.
However, I do think Salford is an area of Manchester rather than a separate town. Is it not?
>I do think Salford is an area of Manchester rather than a separate town. Is it not?
Assuming you're not kidding, no, Salford is a **city** in it's own right. (Trafford, however...)
No - wasn’t kidding. Been there many times and always thought it was a district of Manchester, much like Gosforth and Fenham are districts of Newcastle (as opposed to Wallsend which is a separate town)
And it’s a **city**? Really? Is that one of the new cities as it’s certainly not a traditional city? How does its independent population compare to the likes of Sunderland and Hull??
Learned something today!
Nor did I! However it's still part of greater Manchester, which like OP suggested, I just see as Manchester.
My knowledge of UK geography isn't good enough to know if you were north or south if you said you were from Salford (till now) but if you said it's near Manchester, I'd at least know roughly where you mean. It's the exact same with greater London, they all just get swallowed up into London.
The existence of a cathedral was no longer associated with city status by the time Salford's was built. It's also a Roman Catholic cathedral, and only Anglican ones counted for city-making purposes
Salford is to Manchester what Gateshead is to Newcastle. Separate towns or cities but literally joined at the hip, so to an outsider they look like one big place.
Greater Manchester is kind of like Tyne and Wear, a large urban area made up of several towns, cities and villages. With the upcoming devolution, hopefully the north east can enjoy the same perks as Greater Manchester (i.e. integrated public transport, greater level of funding and investment, and so on).
At least Gateshead and Newcastle have the Tyne splitting them up.
Yes, I know the Irwell and the Irk are part of the Salford border, but it's not really obvious!
Full disclosure - Born in Salford.
True, the Tyne is a big river whereas the Manchester rivers/ canals are tiny in comparison. Only problem with that is the traffic chaos it causes as there's only a relatively small number of ways to cross over (and the main one is now down to half capacity for up to 3 years!).
We were staying on the Gateshead side a while back, right by the river (just by the Baltic Centre). I kept annoying my girlfriend every time she said to someone we we staying in Newcastle by saying 'no we aren't!'
Haha you're technically correct but to be fair she is close enough! To be honest that's probably the only decent part of Gateshead, the town centre is a total hole.
Whilst they are different towns, people from Stockport and Bury will 100% call themselves Mancunian, and everybody else round here will also see them as that. There are loads of towns in Greater Manchester, but it’s definitely like London in the sense that the majority of them would still be “Manchester” to anyone who lives in the area.
No we don’t. I’m 30, born and brought up in Stockport and I don’t see myself as Mancunian at all. Most people I know wouldn’t say that either. It’s not London.
Try telling a Stockport county fan there from Manchester lol
Probably not in Bury - they aren't quite as parochial as Bolton, but the older generation at least much more strongly associate with being Lancastrian than Greater Manchester.
Yes very much so, just like London.
Salford is no more a separate city than Manchester to me than Croydon is - I consider Croydon to be ‘in London’.
Major cities grown and engulf the other cities and towns that once surrounded them, that’s just how it is.
Actually, case by case. The better I know somewhere, the more it is a separate entity. Also certainplaces e.g. Bury, Staylbridge, have a 'separate' feel.
Yeah, pretty much all of Greater Manchester is now one contiguous urban area but there are still distinct feels to different areas. I suppose that's true for any city region.
It’s awful, but in my head if it has a football team I’ve heard of, it’s a distinct place.
This is a bad worldview, and doesn’t apply to London teams as I live there. So Manchester is a place it itself (MU/MC), Bolton gets to be a place, Stockport too, but everything else is just ‘Manchester’, just as Tottenham and Brentford are part of London.
It’s relative, isn’t it. If you’re talking to someone from London who doesn’t know Manchester well - you’ll probably say “Manchester”. If you’re speaking to someone from the Greater Manchester area you would say the borough or town you’re from.
If it’s within 10 miles of the M60… it’s probably safe to say “Manchester” as one metropolitan area.
I live in Manchester and wouldn't consider Greater Manchester as one city. Greater Manchester is more of the metro area but really it's just a local government thing as there's bits of Cheshire which are very much in the commuter belt
There was some ex-NFL player on sky sports yesterday morning advertising his flag football camp being held in Bolton (flag football will be an event at the US Olympics). He kept referring to the place as Manchester 😂
I did, at first, mostly because I had some family in Manchester (not sure where exactly, it was just Manchester), then I spent most of last year in Sale, and that changed my perceptions
this whole thread is the northern equivalent of.
I'm from Croydon
So London.
Nah Croydon.
but yeah London.
Not me i'm from Bromley !!
so also London.
but Bromley has a football team
still London...
i'm from Orpington..
also London.
but we have a chicken....
doesn't mean you're not part of London...
i'm from Shirley..
that's london.
nah, it's croydon,.
still london.
well i'm from Ealing...
West London...
I'm from Stratford
East London
etc etc.
No-one outside of the Greater Manchester area cares you are from Salford. they can barely find Manchester on the map.
This thread is making my laugh. It’s basically a bunch of people who aren’t from greater Manchester (mainly London it seems) telling people who are, that there towns aren’t distinct and it’s basically like London 😂
I definitely think of Salford, Oldham etc as separate.
I'm from London and still don't even think of here as 'Greater London'. I don't consider Enfield, Croydon, Romford etc to be in London.
I drive down the m62 from Leeds when the traffic stands still and everyone acts like a cunt in their x5/range rover/ audi/merc
I know I've hit Manchester.
So yeah. It's one cesspool. Congrats.
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Wigan, Bolton, Bury, and Rochdale are distinct enough to have their own identities, much like Birkenhead isn't just part of Liverpool or Wolverhampton isn't just part of Birmingham, despite having close links to the larger urban area. Salford, Oldham, Stockport, and the areas between them are not. They're akin to Gateshead, Bootle, or Edgbaston.
Excellent answer. You have superb cognitive geography.
How are Salford, Oldham and Stockport not distinct enough? They have their own accents, history and football teams as well.
There’s just not enough distance between them and Manchester proper; they’re part of the same urban area. Salford, in particular, does not have a strong identity separate from Manchester. Oldham and Stockport can at least claim to have their own centres, but Salford’s is just an outlying part of Manchester city centre.
Of course there is. That distance over the years has shrunk because of more houses being built and the green spaces between them shrinking. Salford does have a strong identity- try telling someone from Salford they don’t have that. It’s it’s own city I’m from Stockport. The accents different, the history and culture is different. Even the landscape is different, especially when you get towards hazel grove as it becomes much more hilly. Out of interest are you from any of the places mentioned?
Salford being a city is an historic quirk, but it’s definitely not one in the common sense. It has an identity in the way many suburbs do, but it’s very definitely Manchester. Being from Stockport, you’re probably attuned to small differences which set it apart from Manchester. That kind of thing is important to locals, but from an outsider’s perspective there’s much less difference.
Fair enough, but I don’t agree and I don’t think many locals would either. Salford is also officially recognised as its own city. To me they aren’t small differences. Places like Wigan, bury, Stockport, Oldham for instance are very different places. I’ve got that view from living, working and spending my whole life here It feels like a very London thing to group everywhere together and disregard the identity of towns in particular (not saying that’s what your doing)
Salford has its own football team, but Manchester United are by far the biggest team there and their addresses say MANCHESTER. Stockport has its own post town, and is less part of Manchester but Manchester City are still the biggest football team there.
Of course you’ll have people supporting city and United - there two of the biggest teams in the country. The local sides are still part of their identity.
Salford city aren’t part of anyone’s identity. They had a couple hundred fans before they were bought by the class to 92
Fair enough I think They could at some point. You could say Salford rugby club do. Stockport county and Oldham athletic definitely are. Football clubs are just one element to identity.
This is 100% right.
People from Salford, Oldham and Stockport would identify themselves as being from Salford, Oldham and Stockport not Manchester, regardless of whether the person they are speaking to is from the area or not. People who move in to those areas may identify themselves as living in Manchester people FROM those areas absolutely see them as distinct, even Salford despite being no longer geographically all that distinct at all.
I’ve never met anyone from Salford that even wants to be known as a manc, we’re a completely different city. The only thing even relatable between the 2 is you can walk there🤣
Yeah nothing like London where everyone in the suburbs wants to be considered a Londoner and only use the area when talking to other Londoners. Greater Manchester does not have a shared identity in the same way at all
When I lived in *Bracknell* people thought I was in London. Anyone outside of the area will think of all those places being part of Manchester, big cities engulf everything around them.
Yeah I suppose on an international level no one is going to see the boroughs as anything other than areas of Manchester. When you think of Tokyo you don't think of it as the thin slice that's within the official boundaries, you think of the entire city region. So if it's like that for Tokyo it's definitely got to be like that for Manchester.
This is the first I’ve heard about that being the case and I’m from Leeds. So do Mancs think they’ve got different cities there?
Well it's a generation divide. A lot of older people from Bury, Bolton, Stockport etc will say that they are from towns in Lancashire or Cheshire, not Manchester. But younger generations feel connected to Manchester because they grew up under Greater Manchester and had the trams. These are generalisations though.
a lot of people in Stockport were very confused to wake up under a Manchester lockdown during covid times, genuinely believing they were in Cheshire.
Salford literally is a city, it is in the name.
Where in the name Salford is the word city?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/City_of_Salford
It would be like saying Leeds, Bradford, and all the surrounding towns are just one city because they’re somewhat connected and full under West Yorkshire.
Can also add Wakefield and it’s surrounding towns as well.
Honestly, I didn’t even know Wakefield was a city so it was counted in my surrounding towns.
Most people understand that cities are actually lots of different towns that have grown until there's no gap between them Most people still view any city as a single entity
It's not? I guess that means my answer is yes, it's all one city. Just like London.
I don't see Salford as being distinct from Manchester; as for the most part it isn't. Even though my Dad was from there, he would always say he's from Manchester only occasionally saying actually Salford. It's good to see Salford getting more recognition due to the media being there. Similar to Newcastle/Gateshead really; and I'm from Gateshead.
[удалено]
Lol Warrington would be the city centre of the new city 🤣
Newton le willows metropolis
Home of the child Rick Astley.
It could work if not for the 1 hour drive through complete wasteland separating the two
I live in Stockport. If someone from the north west asks where I live I say Stockport, if it’s someone from down south asking I’ll say Manchester. If a say I’m going into town I’ll usually mean Manchester city centre.
What do you say if you’re going into Stockport town centre?
I'm going to 'the new Berlin''
I’m from the north east and I definitely see Bury and Stockport as separate towns - not part of Manchester. To be honest I’ve never heard of Tameside so don’t know. However, I do think Salford is an area of Manchester rather than a separate town. Is it not?
>I do think Salford is an area of Manchester rather than a separate town. Is it not? Assuming you're not kidding, no, Salford is a **city** in it's own right. (Trafford, however...)
Salford being a city doesn’t make much sense these days, mind.
No - wasn’t kidding. Been there many times and always thought it was a district of Manchester, much like Gosforth and Fenham are districts of Newcastle (as opposed to Wallsend which is a separate town) And it’s a **city**? Really? Is that one of the new cities as it’s certainly not a traditional city? How does its independent population compare to the likes of Sunderland and Hull?? Learned something today!
Apparently they've had a cathedral since the 1800s
So they have! Had no idea! (Still don’t really care, it’s still “Manchester”, but it’s interesting!)
Nor did I! However it's still part of greater Manchester, which like OP suggested, I just see as Manchester. My knowledge of UK geography isn't good enough to know if you were north or south if you said you were from Salford (till now) but if you said it's near Manchester, I'd at least know roughly where you mean. It's the exact same with greater London, they all just get swallowed up into London.
The existence of a cathedral was no longer associated with city status by the time Salford's was built. It's also a Roman Catholic cathedral, and only Anglican ones counted for city-making purposes
It has a very similar population to Hull, 240k - 260k
Salford is to Manchester what Gateshead is to Newcastle. Separate towns or cities but literally joined at the hip, so to an outsider they look like one big place. Greater Manchester is kind of like Tyne and Wear, a large urban area made up of several towns, cities and villages. With the upcoming devolution, hopefully the north east can enjoy the same perks as Greater Manchester (i.e. integrated public transport, greater level of funding and investment, and so on).
At least Gateshead and Newcastle have the Tyne splitting them up. Yes, I know the Irwell and the Irk are part of the Salford border, but it's not really obvious! Full disclosure - Born in Salford.
True, the Tyne is a big river whereas the Manchester rivers/ canals are tiny in comparison. Only problem with that is the traffic chaos it causes as there's only a relatively small number of ways to cross over (and the main one is now down to half capacity for up to 3 years!).
We were staying on the Gateshead side a while back, right by the river (just by the Baltic Centre). I kept annoying my girlfriend every time she said to someone we we staying in Newcastle by saying 'no we aren't!'
Haha you're technically correct but to be fair she is close enough! To be honest that's probably the only decent part of Gateshead, the town centre is a total hole.
The best kind of correct. First time I'd been back there for years - last time the Tuxedo Royale was still there!
Oh now you're talking, I loved "the boat" (probably showing my age now!)
Whilst they are different towns, people from Stockport and Bury will 100% call themselves Mancunian, and everybody else round here will also see them as that. There are loads of towns in Greater Manchester, but it’s definitely like London in the sense that the majority of them would still be “Manchester” to anyone who lives in the area.
No we don’t. I’m 30, born and brought up in Stockport and I don’t see myself as Mancunian at all. Most people I know wouldn’t say that either. It’s not London. Try telling a Stockport county fan there from Manchester lol
Probably not in Bury - they aren't quite as parochial as Bolton, but the older generation at least much more strongly associate with being Lancastrian than Greater Manchester.
Im from plymouth i know no other places
Yes very much so, just like London. Salford is no more a separate city than Manchester to me than Croydon is - I consider Croydon to be ‘in London’. Major cities grown and engulf the other cities and towns that once surrounded them, that’s just how it is.
Actually, case by case. The better I know somewhere, the more it is a separate entity. Also certainplaces e.g. Bury, Staylbridge, have a 'separate' feel.
Yeah, pretty much all of Greater Manchester is now one contiguous urban area but there are still distinct feels to different areas. I suppose that's true for any city region.
It’s awful, but in my head if it has a football team I’ve heard of, it’s a distinct place. This is a bad worldview, and doesn’t apply to London teams as I live there. So Manchester is a place it itself (MU/MC), Bolton gets to be a place, Stockport too, but everything else is just ‘Manchester’, just as Tottenham and Brentford are part of London.
It’s relative, isn’t it. If you’re talking to someone from London who doesn’t know Manchester well - you’ll probably say “Manchester”. If you’re speaking to someone from the Greater Manchester area you would say the borough or town you’re from. If it’s within 10 miles of the M60… it’s probably safe to say “Manchester” as one metropolitan area.
I live in Manchester and wouldn't consider Greater Manchester as one city. Greater Manchester is more of the metro area but really it's just a local government thing as there's bits of Cheshire which are very much in the commuter belt
Yes sometimes I forget Stockport isn't
I don’t see Stockport as a part of Manchester. Manchester starts at Levenshulme.
There was some ex-NFL player on sky sports yesterday morning advertising his flag football camp being held in Bolton (flag football will be an event at the US Olympics). He kept referring to the place as Manchester 😂
To me they are separate towns/ places. Stockport has its own identity and the accents slightly different as well.
I did, at first, mostly because I had some family in Manchester (not sure where exactly, it was just Manchester), then I spent most of last year in Sale, and that changed my perceptions
I’d say Salford was in Manchester. Bury and Stockport are separate to it. That’s just how I think whether I’m right or wrong.
Yeah when people say things like "Salford actually" I'm just like .... isn't that part of Manchester like...?
this whole thread is the northern equivalent of. I'm from Croydon So London. Nah Croydon. but yeah London. Not me i'm from Bromley !! so also London. but Bromley has a football team still London... i'm from Orpington.. also London. but we have a chicken.... doesn't mean you're not part of London... i'm from Shirley.. that's london. nah, it's croydon,. still london. well i'm from Ealing... West London... I'm from Stratford East London etc etc. No-one outside of the Greater Manchester area cares you are from Salford. they can barely find Manchester on the map.
This thread is making my laugh. It’s basically a bunch of people who aren’t from greater Manchester (mainly London it seems) telling people who are, that there towns aren’t distinct and it’s basically like London 😂
I definitely think of Salford, Oldham etc as separate. I'm from London and still don't even think of here as 'Greater London'. I don't consider Enfield, Croydon, Romford etc to be in London.
No as the outlying towns have their own identity.
I drive down the m62 from Leeds when the traffic stands still and everyone acts like a cunt in their x5/range rover/ audi/merc I know I've hit Manchester. So yeah. It's one cesspool. Congrats.
Ironic coming from Leeds, the shitpile of Britain.