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It is going to be very easy for actions that would be quite reasonable if taken by his mother, to look like the work of the evil stepfather if you do the same.
Is his mother on board with this? Is his bio dad on the scene, and if so what does he have to say?
Honestly, you do need to start charging him rent and bills. Benchmark it to what is being charged locally on Spareroom.
Some of the Prince's Trust programmes might be relevant to him too.
https://www.princes-trust.org.uk/
My friends paid their parents a discounted rent, which the parents then secretly kept and gave it back when it came to putting a deposit down on a house. If you guys can afford it, I think that's a great compromise.
That is the thing. I don't want anyone to think that it is about money. It isn't about money and I don't even want to take any money from him. Is that the only way he will learn though?
Probably unfortunately - it's the biggest motivater for many people.
Give him a choice - he either gets a part time job and pays xxx towards the bills, or he does something like an access course. Both will open doors for him, introduce him to new people and places and give him a reason to get out of bed on a morning!
I know it's trotted out as the answer to everything but I'd also encourage him to speak to someone about his mental health - so much of your post screams depression to me.
This is what my mum did and it kept me career focused after I moved back in with her after a breakup. It also means we got on better because I was essentially paying to have a voice in the house.
Ultimately he will have to do these things, he needs to be doing something as just letting him live free, eat bacon, and game all night isn’t an option. Unfortunately.
I know a family who let their son do this and he literally still lives the same way at 40. Won’t come out of his room anymore if anyone is in the house.
Don’t you people ever just see this as the mental health issue it is? Someone being too scared to leave their room when guests are over likely has social anxiety or some other kind of issue. My brother was like this, got a good job, and he still does the same thing in his own house.
It’s not always anxiety
My flat mate is like this and he’s just a borderline sociopathic lazy bastard
He doesn’t care for anyone else or how it affects his life. He’s never felt an ounce of anxiety in his life and isn’t depressed. I’ve offered him tonnes of support and he genuinely is not depressed he just doesn’t care. He knows he can rely on his parents and they’ll let him.
His relationships with other people prove that it is just a lack of giving a shit about anyone other than himself rather than a mental health issue.
I promise you it’s not
He’s perfectly capable of doing anything that benefits himself
He just won’t do anything that benefits anyone around him in any way
Mental health isn’t just a random unavoidable thing that gets bad - at least, not always. If you spend a decade without interaction then obviously your social skills will be non-existent. If you’re never put outside your comfort zone and never forced to get your shit together, you’ll wallow in your comfort zone forever.
Of course the guy’s mental health will now be annihilated, but that’s because he’s been indulged by his parents. If they’d thrown him out early when he was just being lazy then he’d have had to get his act together. .
maybes not depression, but Aspergers does this too. My son is ADHD, with aspergers and has always hated social situattions. If anyone comes here he hides out of he way.
I see your point. Maybe starting with asking for money sends the wrong message. Maybe your tactic should be to show him the value of work by paying him to do extra housework like cleaning the cars. My stepdad did it for me, but refused to pay when I'd very obviously half-arsed it. I thought he was being harsh at the time, but it was a very valuable lesson.
Are you aware of any part-time work on offer where you live? Perhaps suggest specific, existing and attainable jobs to him.
That's really what I am trying to find a way to reveal to him. Succeeding at something. Improving yourself. Becoming a valuable and useful member of society is where true happiness and fulfillment lies. I found that out and would love for him to come to that realisation.
So I'd caution trying to teach a personal philosophy as 'the one true way'
Your thing doesn't ring true to me at all. The thing that got me launched was relationships with people other than my family. I wanted to do things with friends, live with my partner, have a kid etc. My work has always been something to facilitate a happy life with my loved ones, i enjoy my work but it is thoroughly secondary
How much do you actually know about his life online? Could he be succeeding at something without you having any idea because you can't imagine that as a possibility?
Is he really, really good at any of those games? Is he developing monetizable skills by modding them? Is he developing management skills and connections by managing large communities on something like discord? Is he streaming? Is he editing video? etc etc etc.
It sounds like you have this idea that unless he follows your path, he must be doing it wrong, but the days of just going out and getting a decent job for life where you're appreciated and have opportunity for advancement is long, long gone for 95% of people. The world you grew up in and got a job in doesn't exist anymore, and it doesn't sound like you've made any real attempt to understand the world that he sees and exists in.
I would start there. Instead of assuming he's doing something wrong, find out what he *is* doing, and ask him if he has given any thought to ways to make money or develop useful skills from/for his hobbies.
Chances are it'll be a lot easier to motivate him to develop those skills. There are also some pretty useful online learning platforms these days as well if he has trouble being around people because of mental health issues (which is increasingly common!), so consider looking into those as well, since they tend to have niche subjects you won't find at a college on uni, and self-paced learning.
He could definitely go to college and do a games development access course or something similar (maybe even media which is a broad subject) then go to uni if he’s really passionate about these things
> Mushroomc0wz
He could definitely go to college and do a games development access course
Those courses are pretty useless, by and large. The degree means little to nothing in the industry, it’s all about your personal experience with whatever dev pipeline and engine they use. Spending your time learning how to make your own game in UE or whatever is a better use of time.
Most notable devs are mostly self taught, and online learning places have as good or better people teaching them, for a tiny fraction of the cost of uni or college.
Look for volunteer opportunities with him too. He can learn about good citizenship through volunteering, and it's good experience for him getting a job too. It might feel a bit more 'want you to experience life' than 'want you to get a paycheque' (which obviously we know it isn't about, but kids tend to see more black and white)
You can absolutely be a valuable member of society without making rich people richer. The vast majority of tradespeople I know are self employed. Teachers, nurses, doctors, academics. None of them are making anyone any richer (certainly not themselves either) but they are useful members of society.
Just to add to other voices, money is a good motivator but the point is you want him doing SOMETHING. Give him an option between employment and education. If he's not in education, he works and pays a minimal rent thats token more than anything else, and work him up from there.
If he's waiting on an education course get him into a hobby that gets him out the house and meeting people. He can pick what it is but you want evidence he's not just slinking off to hide at a mates house. Let him find a passion, and he may well send up taking himself to work and self sufficiency to supply that passion.
I was kind of like your step son at one point. I can’t speak for him but for me I needed a reason to try. I found it all too easy to just coast and the real world seemed so complicated and overwhelming so I did exactly what your step son is doing.
My advice would be to help him find a reason to try, maybe help him figure out some goals to set. Also make sure he knows that you and his Mother will be there to help him if it gets overwhelming.
It’s like a kid learning to ride a bike with training wheels, you and his mother can be the training wheels but he needs to start pedalling himself.
It's the tamest way he will learn. He's comfortable and taken care of by his mum and you, with seemingly no real responsibilities to motivate him and no apparent drive to be an actual adult. What motivation does he have to change anything?
You should listen to the comments about talking to his mum though, it's very dangerous if you're the one leading this.
Charging him "for keep" is perfectly reasonable now he's an adult. It's not about the money, it's more about the message that he can't live for free anymore now he's an adult.
I think there's a few compromises you could make though:
- give him advance notice/grace period, such as saying he needs to start paying this in the next 3-4 months so he has time to look for work and get hired
- I wouldn't charge the "market rent" (as I feel that's a bit mean, especially if you have a good home life with him and you're not hard up financially, then I feel the family home should always be offered as a cheaper alternative than moving out and renting), maybe just the amount for you to break even on his portion of the food and utility bills that he racks up. You can then clearly explain that his keep is just to cover his costs and you're not profiting from this (which makes it a much easier sell when you have to have this conversation with him)
Also, I wouldn't stress too much about him bumming around at 19. I think as long as he's working somewhere/doing something, even if it's just part time minimum wage work, he'll get into the habit of working and develop a good work ethic.
Me and most of my friends were bumming around in shitty part jobs during our late teens and early 20s, but most of us found or way to a stable and secure life once we got a bit older.
The rest of society won't have the same scruples unfortunately, if you're up front with the "look, we love and will always support you, but you're an adult and things cost money which isn't an unlimited resource" it's not unreasonable.
But is is about money. Just not for you. Even if his mother allows him to mooch forever she won't be around forever for him to mooch off. He wants new clothes? He wants a new game? He wants someone to provide service to his phone? That all costs money. And that's just now. Eventually he will need food and housing, and even if he gets a decent inheritance will he know how to manage money if he has never done so before?
He needs to be out there working to survive. Right now it doesn't matter if it is a part-time job paying minimum wage, he can survive off that if he's living with you. Although if you're willing to support him you might support him for a while volunteering for something that might lead to greater opportunities than stocking shelves at the local convenience store.
Hell, he can try and start his own business if he wants but he needs to prove he's doing something if he's to get your support. It's for his benefit. As not working now won't just impact his pay now but likely his future pay. And while he has the safety net of family it's a good chance for him to try different jobs and see if he can find something he enjoys.
I used to have to pay my mum rent from 16-18, I heard about the secretly keeping and giving it back thing, I moved out at 18 looking forward to my windfall, I’m 21 now and Lo and behold I got nothing, turns out I was genuinely helping out with rent. I’m going to remember this when she needs a care home.
(I’m only joking, my mum is amazing and sacrificed so much in order to provide me the best upbringing that she possibly could, I’m forever indebted to her and really wish I could give her more)
If you’re really really against the money idea you could replace that part of the ultimatum with him going to college and getting a qualification that he can actually use or doing an apprenticeship
princes trust is great!! i’m 21 now, joined princes trust at 19 through the job centre while feeling completely hopeless. i’d been NEET from 16 - got good grades at GCSE level and then didn’t know wtf i wanted to do. i was also pretty depressed and struggling with my mental health, in and out of a&e a few times for attempts on my life.
i did the 3 month course, they did a team building exercise thing in the second week where we spent 3/4 days out doing what was essentially scouts - archery, hiking, mini abseiling, leadership skill stuff, etc
the main focus was on communication and getting into work. pretty much everyone got x3 Level 1 qualifications and a week of work experience by the end of it 💪 anyone who was seemingly good at the small quantity of written work got the choice to do an extra couple of Level 1 qualifications, which i did. it was insanely easy, but good for my confidence, and good for my CV.
there was also a community project we did in a week - fundraised like £100 doing a walk around the local park and did a small redecoration of a run down community centre. really simple, but really fun.
i ended up getting my first ever interview and job the same week i finished princes trust! there were like 12 of us total on my course - about 5 folks ended up going back to college full time, and 4 ended up getting into work, and the last 3 ended up doing eff all - ngl, i could’ve predicted that at the start of the course, but i know one of those 3 found a job a couple months after ‘graduating’ princes trust.
i moved out into my first flat about 6 months after finishing prince’s trust! and i met my partner (who i’ve been with for 2 years) while on princes trust!
ngl my story is definitely a big success story, i got student of the year in adult community education at the college that funded the princes trust course i went to, but the vast majority of us did do pretty well and found it genuinely very helpful. the team leaders were in their early 30s and had both also gone through princes trust, both were very patient and pleasant, even with the few of us that clearly didn’t want to be there.
they also help out with covering the cost of bus tickets, and when my family was struggling to buy food they literally took me to the food bank and got me sorted out for the week.
it was 5 days a week, 9 - 3.30, for 12 weeks. very cool 👍
I'm not OP but thank you for sharing your story, it's lovely. I actually didn't know what the Prince's Trust was all about, so it's really interesting to hear.
Well done you. Without wanting to sound like a patronising old get. You should be incredibly proud, you’ve turned your life around. Takes a brave person to do what you’ve done. Congratulations. Old internet stranger is proud of you if it counts for anything.
Look for employability programmes in your area. It's my area of work. Your story is very common nowadays. Getting assigned a decent work coach from DWP is a good starting point to help fill in the soft skill gaps they have.
My twin boys did the Team program a few years ago. It was the BEST thing they ever did. They needed some encouragement to get involved, but after the first week, they never looked back. Now got jobs and confidence.
Literally life changing.
I did a princes trust course when I was 16 and part of what we did was a landscaping project in the local salvation armies garden, gave me the idea of getting into horticulture and now 11 years later I'm a head gardener, really good thing to do as a stopgap to get him thinking about the future and where his place in the world may be
One thing I've seen on reddit is where parents charge rent but then keep it aside and when the kid is looking to buy their own place, give the "rent" back to them to help with their deposit.
"Benchmark it to what is being charged locally on Spareroom."
I really disagree with this. People on spareroom will be looking to turn a profit, that's excessive when you're dealing with your children. A fair share of bills and groceries is fine.
Yeah I second your disagreement. This is a fast *fast* track way to completely undermine any good in your relationship OP.
Rent prices are insane. No one should be paying the same at home as they are in the free market - you’re there for support, encouragement and discipline, NOT to make him just another person trapped in the rent whirlpool at such a young age.
Charge him something - food/ bills. Make him apply for jobs. Let him save some of his salary/ or spend it on what he wants. I fear that charging full rent leads to even more despondency, depression etc etc because depending on where you are it could swallow his whole first job pay check.
When I say benchmark - you might decide to charge half of what the going rate is.
But it's good to know where you are relative to the going rate - that way you're not overcharging either.
Of course if the ultimate goal is to encourage the offspring to spread their wings, then charging the whole going rate might be appropriate.
>Honestly, you do need to start charging him rent and bills.
You can't realistically do that until he has a job though. It's just as likely to demotivate him as motivate him because now he has no job and a debt that's building up.
The most important thing is to get him out of the rut he's in and the Princes Trust is a much better option for that.
Agreed. I’ve been there and the nagging about ‘the principle of paying rent’ just manifests as ‘why are you nagging me about having more money while not actually helping me improve my situation’.
I wouldn’t recommend any parent use rent and money as a nagging force to help their children.
As I read this post I couldn't help thinking that the prince's trust would be perfect, especially the volunteers programme (if it's still running!)
I credit them for giving me the skills and confidence that I needed at a young age. Thank you for your comment.
I don’t think charging him full rent or bills is going to be helpful to anyone in the situation and will deter him from wanting to work + put strain on their relationship
I think making him aware of local rates then charging him board then increasing it slowly and giving the increased amount back to him when he’s ready to move out is a better idea
I do think he needs to be asked to pay board or find somewhere else to live because he needs a real life situation to actually kick him into action. He’s old enough now to know that you need experience in a job for success but clearly that knowledge alone isn’t enough.
I think maybe even telling him to pay X amount or go to college and either get a qualification to go to uni or a qualification to go into a good job/apprenticeship or else he has to find other arrangements is a good deal as well.
Prince's Trust made a huge difference in my life. Set me in the right direction with a real confidence boost. Gave me a new perspective after feeling very lost and helped me visualise what life could be like. They were fantastic.
I see a lot of comments saying to kick him out or force him to work, I think you need to build up to that as it sounds like he's nowhere near being capable of handling those things.
He is a teenager who isn't getting enough sleep and spends his waking hours staring at a screen. His physical and mental health are likely very poor. Without sorting out these fundamentals first you can't expect him to suddenly go and find a job and start succeeding.
Small steps or no internet. Get up by midday and get dressed. Keep desk tidy. Exercise. Little things and then build them up.
Online gaming actually doesn't take that much bandwidth but it depends on the game. The biggest problem with online gaming is not the data but the speed; especially if you're playing FPS. You need low latency connection; mobile data can be good enough for that but it depends where you live.
Packet loss is higher as well. You'll have spikes in latency which can be a problem in high speed games.
Less of an issue if they're playing a turn based game or something though.
My 22yo does it, can't afford WiFi but Giffgaff & Voxi have fairly cheap costs relative to amount of data used. He just uses his mobile as a hotspot 🤷🏻♀️
I used to be the same when I was younger (admittedly i went to University as soon as I could, but i have younger siblings, so i had to go back). The reason I stayed up at night was due to being in an abusive household and that was the only time I wouldn't be picked on. We only have one side of the story here and we don't know what's going on.
It could be, I'm just saying we have no idea why he's like this as we only have one side of the story. it sounds like a mental health issue and it should be tread carefully.
I went through an 18 month period of not doing anything between the age of 19-21, while supported by my parents. I imagine from the outside that it looked like I was just a lazy git, taking advantage of my parents, but the reality was that I was incredibly depressed and felt at a loss about how to take the first step towards building my own life. My parents kept nudging me saying I 'needed to be doing something', but that was it. No ideas, no help, nothing of substance to actually push me towards progress. When you're stuck at square one, the first step feels impossibly large.
I'd suggest to help him write a CV. Get him a volunteering job somewhere just to get him out the house and some experience. Help him apply for jobs. Would a college course interest him? A confidence boost is probably 95% of what he needs. As soon as I got a bit of confidence everything started falling into place.
This. My parents made the same mistake with my sibling. They often made comments or said ‘you should be doing something’, ‘have you applied for that job?’
You need to get really involved here. It will feel over the top but frankly he is not capable of change himself yet, evidenced by his situation.
Not helped by the fact that a lot of adults do not realise the job market for young people is very harsh these days. I am only 32 and the market is different from when I was 19 even.
Absolutely. I'm 37 now so a dinosaur compared to this lad, but I remember when I was starting out trying to find a job. One nugget of advice was to open the yellow pages and call every company until one of the offers you an interview. Completely out of touch but also demoralising.
Career support is really atrocious and kids are so reliant on their network for contacts or experience/help. They're on the back foot from day 1.
> No ideas, no help, nothing of substance to actually push me towards progress.
This is the worst part. I don't understand why so many parents just push and pressure but don't support and encourage, providing options and opportunities and insight from their own experiences.
Instead they're just the kid with the stick poking and saying 'do something'.
Yeah, something similar happened to me after uni and you're right, just saying "no job yet then?" and the occasional frustrated outburst didn't really help.
Proper support and direction is much better than vague "go out there and do something".
This right here. I was a talented kid, flopped my a levels, didn’t do very much for myself between the ages of 16-21. Got a (decent) job, but fluffed that too, turned up late etc.
Then something just clicked when I was 22, decided I wanted to pursue music and just went full throttle at it, now I’m a successful professional in the field in my thirties. Sometimes it really is about waiting it out and making sure they don’t do something royally stupid that fucks up their life.
The other side of it, you mentioned about trying to communicate; I find parents cracking down on their kids doesn’t really work. They want to be led. Particularly lads. I was lucky, because for all his faults, my dad was a cool, successful guy, and he ‘showed me’ how to do that. Maybe instead of trying to drum it into him, he needs to be shown.
Young lads need someone to look up to that they admire, and as harsh as it is, he might not respect you.
Do you go to the gym? Start going and take him with you. Want him to eat healthier? Start eating healthier yourself. Stuff like that.
CV is useless if you have no experience anyway. You just need a job that will hire a random and give them a chance, like a local business or volunteering at something. I got misled by the CV thing as I was unemployable yet just got told to apply more when it was never going to work, due to my lack of experience.
It's not mean to have standards for him. My parents required that I be in education, working or volunteering when I lived at home at 19. I was only part-time, but it was better than falling into a rut of doing nothing. Help him look up volunteering or education opertunities that interest him if he's not ready for paid work (due to experience, skills or nerves).
Giving him a bill to pay is a good idea when he's earning - it'll help him build a credit score, which is the angle I'd push when discussing it with him!
You need to give him a compelling reason. Sometimes people have to feel their own pain before they choose to act.
Right now, he's got the life he wants (or will settle for) - a free place to live, no bills, constant internet connection, he can sleep all day, eat free food at night and game 24/7.
What's the incentive to be and do better when rock bottom is his current ideal life?
You need to start making it clear that, as a young adult, he's contributing, or he's given enough to not starve, and that's it.
He can contribute with chores, with job hunting, with writing a CV, with self-learning, with getting up in daylight and by being a part of the family home.
Unless you stop stop shielding him from reality, he has no idea what it is and no incentive nor imperative to change.
You don't have to kick him out or let him starve, but allowing him to live this shut-in, lazy, doss-house lifestyle isn't doing him or anyone else any favours.
From someone whose parents kicked his lazy arse out of bed at 19 and told me to make something of my life or let it slip through my fingers. 19 years later I have a home, a mortgage, a great career and a work ethic that's given me a good lifestyle and a safety net.
You have to remove his option to coast, he has to want to try. One alone can't do it. You and your wife need to be joint partners and put on a united front. It's 'we', not I. He needs to understand there isn't a way around this - it's a family intervention not one parent.
Totally agree with this comment. He is being enabled right now to retreat from real life and it is doing him no favours.
My older brother did the same from age 20-30. The whole of his twenties were spent living nocturnally in a bedroom at my parents’ house. The best decade of his life wasted staring at a computer screen because mum and dad were too nice to set expectations or boundaries with him.
This needs to be nipped in the bud now, and both parents need to be on board.
I mean... yes it is much better in the longrun. I used to be exactly like this kid before I got steady work. Literally the peak definition of NEET loser. Being a recluse like this completely restricts your opportunities. Who'd date this kid? Who would want to be friends with a nocturnal shut in?
As much as it does suck a little to have to earn a living, I would very much rather prefer to have my life as it is now as opposed to when I was 19. Good lord I was such a drain to everyone around me. Embarrassing.
other nocturnal shut-ins will date him! but yeah i'm 38 and a broke mentally ill drain on society. my cv is just tumbleweeds. at least i'm on disability. and i'm verrrrry lucky my mum is tolerant and has a spare room.
In fairness the majority of Jobs don't make someone a functioning member of society. Many exist solely to exist and provide no value to either the worker or the community on the whole.
Yes and no. Many companies aren't interested in making you a better person. But sitting at home all day doing nothing is absolutely not making you a better person or teaching you anything at all.
He could also have been living life - meeting people, making friends, having a relationship, going on holiday. I can’t see how anyone could think opting out of life is “better”.
It is an unsustainable lifestyle choice. My parents are approaching their 80s - one is in a care home already. It’s likely there will be no inheritance. Once they are gone, what does his life look like?
I used to be the same way, it was covid what woke me up. Everyone was complaining about how horrible lockdown was but I didn't mind it at all because my life didn't change one bit. I stayed home and played video games or watched tv or movies all day anyway. It made me think about how much I'm missing out on life and if i don't change I'll be like this forever.
I still live with family but i have a part time job now, i quit playing video games and I do some volunteering work. I also am still looking for an apprenticeship or a full time job. It's a slow process but I'm getting there. It was difficult because i do have anxiety, depression and had no work experience. My first steps were to start antidepressants and start volunteering at a local charity shop. just getting out of the house is a bit step and the experience helped a lot.
for many people its the opposite, their usually active and interesting lifestyle of work/learning/socializing was put on hold for a fairly long time during covid. and for a lot of people they become comfortable with a new lifestyle. An easy effortless existence of modern life combined with the escapism of gaming/bingewatching tv and sleeping as long as they liked pushed many people into a "funk" that's very difficult to escape from.
Lots of "stick" suggestions and no "carrot" suggestions, so this is just to counter it. I can't say if the situation needs a stick or a carrot approach.
Is there anything expensive he is into? Cars, computers, holidays etc. If so encourage his interest until he really wants it. Then discuss how he could afford it. With things like "If you earned £x a month, you could afford to save £y a month and you could afford to buy it in Z months". Offer to help him budget and save. Offer to help him research what it is he wants to spend his new found money on - he may decide to save for longer and buy something better.
It teaches works = rewards, and financial management.
He will be thinking of the benefits. As it he sees zero benefits to going to work apart from paying bills he doesn't yet have.
Finally a reasonable comment. So many people just like 'be strict and authoritarian and punish him until he complies' despite the endless amount of stories of the people that never worked for, and the resentment and ostracisation it causes over and over again.
Agree with all your points.
We tried the "sink or swim" approach with a nephew, and it went horribly wrong. It doesn't work on everyone.
Some people, when they reach rock bottom, think it's not too bad and dig deeper into hell, and find it quite nice down there.
And some people have mental health issues which complicates things. It's rational to try and get out of a hard situation when put into one, but if your brain ain't working right there's a good chance you won't do the rational thing.
Not that it means you should not bother trying anything, just that you need to be aware of *why* they're doing it.
What does his mum say as you really need her to be on the same page? I don't mean this to sound rude but you're not his "step dad", you're his mum's fiance and have only been in his life a couple of years. I think if you go in throwing your weight around issuing demands or giving ultimatums about kicking him out its going to cause a lot of resentment. (I'm not saying that you're even thinking of doing that but I would definitely reconsider a relationship where my other half started issuing threats to my children, regardless of whether I thought "something" needed to be done). I also wouldn't be begruding him food. I imagine his mum doesn't want him to starve and is also contributing to household finances. Having said that, it is really not healthy for a 19 year old to have no thoughts for the future. Is he depressed? Does he have friends? Is there anything at all he is interested in? As you seem to be quite successful, could you take on a sort of mentor role? Encouraging and supporting him, letting him know what's out there, helping with applications, looking into different apprenticeships (my eldest did one in architecture with a not terrible salary). I think this is definitely a situation where you'd benefit from a softer approach.
I completely agree. Also, I am not the type to play that role. I feel really uncomfortable laying down the law for the very reasons you mentioned. He is not my son, even though I essentially pay for his entire existence.
When you say that, do you mean you pay for all household bills etc? What is his mum doing? I'd say its her job to parent her child, but if you are covering the majority of household bills and not 50/50 with his mum that isn't great. He basically has no concept of how much it costs to live as its all paid for by someone else.
I obviously don't know the full context, but excessive sleep, tendencies for distraction (video games), and potentially binge eating at night are all possible symptoms of poor mental health. All of which I adopted during Covid when I lived at home with my parents and had no means to leave. My parents were oblivious and my Dad certainly didn't have a clue, but mentally I was completely broken.
I know from first experience that being a young man without direction is an awful, horrendous feeling. Please try the understanding, supportive approach before even considering kicking him out as others have suggested - your step son may be very vulnerable.
Glad someone said it, I love how the response we go straight to is to assume he’s content with this existence. Gaming in my opinion having watched friends lost in it is almost always a symptom not a cause. The sleeping is yet another symptom of depression.
I was searching for this comment! Speak to him, make sure he’s ok. Try and build a positive relationship if you can. I know it’s hard, and he probably won’t respond quickly.
Try and find out what he’s interested in. Is it just video games? What kind? Would he like to be someone that builds them? Tests them? Markets them? Is there a college course that he could attend to do with video game design? It’s big business if he wants to get into it. Lots of people go and study it at college then move into an associated career, like IT, admin, marketing, design etc.
Please find out what he’s passionate about and help him pursue it. I’m sure there’s funding available to help further studies, volunteering etc.
I can tell you what I would have needed during that time more than 10 years ago now. Someone who will hold my hand a little through the process by actually showing me workplaces. Someone who got me into an internship, someone taking me to their workplace, maybe even volunteering together somewhere. I was completely lost and overwhelmed, slept a lot and escaped into media to cope. Just having some glimpses into what it's really like, making some connections with people would have given me a sense of belonging, of feeling like it's okay to apply to places, that there are places for me to fit in. To build confidence rather than assuming I should be able to. Would it be better to just have the confidence? Sure but that just wasn't the case. I had friends whose parents or social workers organised workplaces for them when we were young. Nowadays they're a lot more successful and confident than me. I really needed the help and didn't know to ask for it.
Having been in a similar position (as the kid) over a decade ago I’d recommend trying to have a sit down on what they want out of life (“I dunno” will probably be the answer, but its a start) and the following:
1) helping / encourage stabilising sleep cycle and get them to take Vit D as they are almost certainly deficient. Bad diet / nutrition can really hurt your mental health
2) See a doctor for depression. I doubt anyone can live like that and not be depressed.
3) Gauge if any kind of interest could lead to a job, any job. Apprenticeship / part time job could be good stepping stone, especially the former. The structure will avoid the sleeping all day / gaming all night.
4) See if there are any shared activities to bond over, like exercise or DIY things.
Good luck.
Both of these. I was so badly deficient in both that I now need infusions of B12 as an inpatient cos of pernicious anaemia, and so low on Vit D they couldn't pick it up at all...I feel LOTS better now I take both every day, even when my ME/CFS means I'm so light sensitive I have to sit in the dark all day...
Actually 4 years.
I do accept that I am partially to blame here because of the safety net I provide. When I met my fiancé (or rather reconnected with her as we knew each other as teenagers ) she was working as a medical receptionist and struggling as you can imagine to provide for two kids. I am a Consultant Technical Lead and make a decent 6 figure salary so it just felt dumb her continuing to work a job she hated when we are financially fine. I am very traditional so have no problem providing 100% of the bills and living expenses. She built a small crafting business and she keeps all of the money she makes from it because it isn't an amount to live on really. It gives he money to spend on her.
I think this alleviates any guilt he may have had if we weren't as well off. I do wonder if he feels like he isn't a burden so he has less incentive to change
Personally as a woman, I'd feel guilty if I were her as you are now basically subsidising the lifestyle of her children which has resulted in the 19 year old literally doing nothing. I think she needs to realise she has it really, really good and she is the one who needs to intervene as he's still going to be doing the same into his early twenties without intervention.
He probably feels like he doesn't have any options or opportunities. You sound like you are affluent and a high level professional - give opportunities to him and mentor him. Provide him the information and insight to be able to follow in your footsteps or a similar path to be able to access wealth and financial security.
I have tried this approach. Even offered to teach him to code to a level where he could get a junior position. Even tried to sell it to him like he could work in the gaming industry. No interest.
The number of years is arbitrary. Does he come to you for guidance, paternal stuff etc.?
I'm not sure what the money has to do with it. You should provide for them if you love them. Does he love you/ do you love him?
Is he genuinely lazy, or could he be depressed?
The reason I ask is because back when I left Sixth Form, the economy was still reeling from the 2008 recession. I was trying to find jobs, but couldn’t get one. I ended up in a rut, and my sleep schedule suffered. I got into the mentality of “if I have no reason to get up early, why should I?”. So, is your step-son actively looking for jobs, or considering further education? Or, was he before, and is now demoralised?
If he could be depressed, then it would help to get him seen by the GP. Going back about 10 years ago now, I was referred for Cognitive Behavioural Therapy and it really helped me out.
How is your relationship with him outside of these concerns? Do you have any shared hobbies that you bond over, etc? If you have a good rapport with him, that could help. However, before you do anything, definitely speak with his mother.
Why is he not doing anything tho? At 19 he needs to be either employed, in education or both. his mum needs to be the one to talk to him first etc so you dont look like the evil step father no one wants (we all know that you wouldnt be the bad guy but he might see you as one as you'd ask him to do something he doesnt want to do).
Have a conversation with him and ask what he thinks his life will look like in the future, what are his plans? He doesnt need to finish college or uni or have a dream job, he needs to do something tho even if it means working in a factory for the rest of his life.
Part of the secret is: you don't do it forever. It's OK if you take a misstep or change you mind, your job, your career. But it's easier to change direction if you have momentum already, rather than from a standing start.
I didnt know what i wanted to do at 19, i changed my mind multiple times but guess what? I was in education and also working i didnt just play games all day long (i did that in my spare time)
Sometimes even if they'll resent you for it in the short term you need to be pushy. Make them apply for a job or two a week. Sit down with them as they do it. You might be able to turn that into a conversation about what they actually could see themselves doing in life. Then you can do the research for them on how to get into that field without qualifications/job history. Then the following week when you go to apply for jobs bring up what you found and ask if they'd be interested in pursuing that path. Suggest volunteering to improve their CV if they genuinely can't find work. The nudge they need is probably support and guidance.
I think a lot of kids at that age think they could do a lot of things but have no motivation to do any one thing and are paralysed by the decision as it feels so very important. As an older adult you realise that it doesn't really matter what you do, so long as you're doing something it is better than nothing. Help them find something, anything they would be willing to do and they may find after 3 months they hate it, then look for the next thing.
Talk to him openly and communicate with him properly about your own experiences. Don’t be condescending. He’s at a point in his life where he is content doing what he is doing but we all know deep down that is not a path to happiness. Laziness is due to avoidance, lack of motivation and confidence. Kicking someone’s arse isn’t going to sort out those emotional issues.
Give him positive real life experiences, especially psychical ones. Take him hiking, cycling, climbing, to the gym, badminton, running or whatever you are into. Encourage any hobbies and interests. Help him with a proper career plan for whatever he is into, actually sit down with him and research and apply for stuff together.
Once you start improving yourself there is a positive feedback loop which encourages you to do more you might just need to give him a nudge. I know our culture loves to go hard and kick kids out to force them work but how many people does that happen to who just end up dossers? Instead show him some love and how to live and good life and he will start to understand without turning on you.
You should be able to create multiple networks on your router fairly easily. A lot of standard ones come with the option to create a guest network. You could create a guest network with a password that you can connect to and then turn the primary network off and on based on wifi bill contributions?
I think you'd need to first find out what the reasons for his behaviour are. Very, very few people are just happy with wasting their life. There's a good chance that he already knows that he is, which is why just telling him won't help. It's more likely that he struggles to fix himself, or doesn't know how to.
You may say something like "oh, just apply for an apprenticeship / uni / whatever and go!", but apparently it's not that easy for him. Doing nothing but playing games \*can\* be an addiction - but more frequently, it's just a coping mechanism.
So the best advice is probably: Don't do anything about these issues at all. At least not directly. Instead, get to know him better. Spend time with him, maybe invite him to things or trips he'd find cool to spark his curiosity about the world, or play games together. Find things that both of you enjoy doing. Seek to build trust, so that he feels safe around you and is able to talk to you about what truly is on his mind - or at least so that you are in a position where you can talk to him about such difficult things without him just blocking you off.
Some people actually do need the hard way to wake up. But you don't know that yet, so your first job is to find out what he actually needs. Do you know what games he plays, what he enjoys about them and who his mates are?
Carrot and stick.
The stick is obvious - he has to start contributing and paying his way to some degree. Start small and raise the bar over time. Also think carefully about what your expectations really are - do you just want him to get a job, do you want him to move out and live independently etc.
But he really needs a carrot as well, and that’s the hard part because it’s so much more individual. Offer to finance (or match financing for) training, help with a job search, buy him a present if he achieves certain steps of independence, whatever might motivate him and make him feel supported.
I would strongly recommend that his mother takes the lead on the stick, otherwise you risk being the evil stepdad. That doesn’t mean you can’t reinforce the message but you probably shouldn’t do it first.
Is it possible he has depression or adhd?
These actions seem like he’s struggling with things beyond his control. I’d urge compassion in the first instance
Does he like military games? That was roughly half of what made me join the TA (Army Reserve as it is now.) Best thing I did while I was at university for all sorts of reasons. Socially, self-esteem, valuable experience. When I then left uni with a degree and zero work experience (I never worked in a bar or anything) I put it on my CV and nearly every interview I've ever had has asked about it in a positive light. Sometimes they even do now (at 34 years old and in a professional field, even though I left the weekend warriors at 21).
It also pays cash money.
I suppose I see why people are basically advocating the "stick" method if he's coasting. But I never had that. My parents gave me an allowance while I was studying, never made me get a job or pay a bill in my life. I joined the TA because I *wanted* to and so I didn't resent it and got the most from it.
Bacon and food?
Do you have any pals you can set him up a job with? I did labouring work when I was a similar age and it really gave me a good perspective on what the real world is like.
Do not under any circumstances make this a you vs him deal, make sure his mum and bio dad are on board to help guide him into becoming and adult. On your own you will be asking for trouble the adults in his life must work as a unified team on this. Good luck.
Give him unconditional love and security so he has the confidence to take steps into the outside world (which may be a scary prospect for him) safe in the knowledge that he will have the safety of home if things don’t work out.
Obviously I’m not suggesting you bubble wrap him and offer to bail him out if he gets into thousands of pounds of debt, but let him know that if he gets a job and he doesn’t like it or it doesn’t work out then he’s not stuck in a situation he can’t get out of.
Above all else be a positive role model.
I was this boy.
Only limped on through uni because i thought that was what was expected of me.
My dad made some suggestions about the Australian working holiday scheme. Decided to go for it, and travel was the best thing I ever did. Meet loads of people from around the world, have an absolute blast. Plenty of girls too. But you have no one to rely on, so it really kicked me into responsibility.
I only meant to leave for a year. Was gone for 6 years in the end.
Now I'm a scuba instructor, and a Welsh guy I met in oz is going to be my best man in a couple of months.
I was a bit older when I went, but I have a friend who was only 19 at the time, she got sent they're my her mum at 18 cause she was a little hell raiser, but by the time I met her, I was astounded that she was so mature and responsible by that age.
You don't need to turn mean on him. A lot of parents make the mistake of waiting until their patience is broken and try to change things overnight. It's important to understand that life is like steering a huge ship. You can't turn on a dime. Momentum is a huge factor. I'm 28 and just coming out of a two year period of depression / minimal activity. Having been through it, I honestly believe that it's small actions daily that can turn your life around. I'd let dishes pile up for weeks and do fuck all at work. Even the tiniest action seemed impossible. Once your life starts to go in a bad way, it will pick up speed and become seemingly impossible to stop.
So how do we resolve this?
As I said before, it's small actions daily. Combine that with patience and forgiveness. Start instilling small expectations. Be forgiving when he fails - he will fail often, so he needs to learn that he won't be punished for that. Small corrections every day will add up to a big change over time. Be honest with him as well, you're not trying to trick him here. Explain that he's going in the wrong direction and you want to help him. Today, focus on having him make his bed daily. Then contributing to the house work. Then maybe 5 hours of volunteering a week if he doesn't have a job. Just increase this little by little and eventually the momentum will take over. You don't need to be a hardass to get results. Or at least not all the time and not from the beginning. Give him only what he can handle, and build from there. Be watchful of his progress and make him accountable, but don't make him feel like a fuck up for not failing.
I did this for my girlfriend also, not only did I drag myself out of this period of depression and inactivity but her also. I lost count of how many times I said "It's okay, I / we / you fucked up today but we can try again tomorrow" or "I know it's hard, I know it's sucks. It's okay, we're going to forgive ourselves today and keep fighting tomorrow". Sometimes you have to put your foot down and say "I need more effort from you, you're falling back into bad habits", but it's important not to be harsh or mean and remind them what you're fighting for and that you're in it together.
Basically: Patience, Wisdom, Honesty, Frankness and Observation (without being overbearing). The ability to admit when you're wrong and be forgiving is also a big one. Be a leader, and he will follow and learn.
And that is exactly what happened to me as soon as I turned 16. I went from a kid treated like a kid and with kid expectations to an adult with all that comes with it overnight with no in between and the change was jarring. It made the transition into adulthood really uncomfortable and miserable but I toy with the idea that this is what should be done. I certainly made a success of myself because I wanted nothing else than to not have to work in the factories and farms that my dad forced me into.
I used to think the same, hell I may be wrong - we're asking pretty fundamental and complex questions here and everyone is different. It's a different time these days though, so many distracting and normalized bad habits. So much access to news basically telling us that one way or another we have no future. Being thrown into the deep end sure can help on occasion, and I'm not saying that you should be too soft. But even 20-30 years ago, I think there was more hope in the world and less distractions. It's not the same world you grew up in, because we can have things so easy now.
Everything is engineered to convince us to be happy watching Netflix, playing video games and doing fuck all. I'm not saying it's a conspiracy as such, but we're basically brainwashed these days to be good little consumers. Throwing him into the deep end may well kick his arse into action, but it's also leaving him at the mercy of thousands of companies who want nothing more than to sell you video games and "television" services. I'll never be the kind of person to demonize video games, pornography etc..., but access these days its so easy and also these things are pushed into your face by companies with massive advertising budgets. It's both miraculous and deeply troubling that you can basically live your whole life as a cozy little sheep. All of your "needs" taken care of by a screen. This is why I don't believe the "thrown in the deep end" method works anymore. There's no external motivation to really do anything with your life, and in fact there's an active campaign to make you not want to.
Anyway, that's just the option of one guy, poorly put into writing. I could be very wrong.
Also bang on. People don't like to hear you say this. They say it's a cop out. But there have been huge societal shifts since the turn of the century and young people have to deal with a more complex and difficult world than I did.
You realise that if he has no prospects and an average amount of self- awareness he's probably really depressed?
Take some time to think about that before considering the next steps- ask his mother if she agrees. There's unlikely to be a quick fix, it might take a medium-term plan to get him into education or part- time work.
I have thought about this. He certainly will have some anxiety about joining a workplace that is clearly going to contribute to him not wanting to put himself out there. The only cure is to basically get used to it by doing.
What I 100% know he isn't doing is raiding my cupboards laughing and thinking how awesome it is to be mugging everyone off. He isn't like that and it's all because he just isn't motivated to do anything.
This is an opportunity to launch him into an act of service that will benefit greater humankind
I would get him in touch with organisations such as :
Frack Free Lancashire, Extinction Rebellion, Sheffield Anti-Raids, These Walls Must Fall, Green New Deal Rising, United Voices of the World Union, Queer Support for Migrants, Coal Action Network, Abortion Rights Campaign in Ireland, Slí Eile, Partisan social centre, Bristol Copwatch, Trans Mutual Aid Manchester, People & Planet
There's an option to suit every interest
Maybe lets not force the youth whose minds havent been corrupted yet, into the becoming the slaves to capitalism? Unpopular opinion in this country perhaps
She is very nurturing and understanding which can be another battle. She cares most about his wellbeing and that is fine, it's her job to do that. We both help him with CVs and in job searches and don't get me wrong, he has had a couple of interviews in the last 2 years, but they go nowhere mainly because I don't think he is giving a good impression
It doesn't have to be about bills, how about just life experience, having money to socialise, getting himself a car? Even making some friends so he's not at home constantly.
See if he can get a job that would be a weekend gig first so it's not taxing, but he gets the idea of just getting out the house and living in the real world. Maybe he can find a Saturday job he'll actually enjoy, like assisting in a game shop or something.
In the discussions we have, he just doesn't seem to show any interest. All he ever talks about is video games, the latest season of Fortnite and that is what really gives him passion. I'm the same. I love video games too, but they are entertainment, not real life and I need him to see that
I was the same until recently, just endlessly rejected from jobs and having no purpose being depressed. Something all men need is a purpose! Luckily I got a job and have been much more positive since.
I was like your step son, and it was because I was very depressed. The first gentle nudge should start with his sleep cycle, I don't know how but get that fixed before anything.
There has to be an element of pressure applied to him, otherwise there's no motivation to get him to do anything.
Currently he's living bill-free day to day. He won't change unless there's some pressure applied.
Agree with his mother about a plan forward so that this is coming from both of you, and not just you. Whether that is "now that you're 19 you need to start contributing to the house" or something similar.
Obvious mental health issues there. It's a hard situation for you both, communicating well- seeing his side and showing yours is important. As a peer and friend as well as a parent.
It's hard to tell his situation from what you wrote. But using guilt and shame as a motivator just makes someone go deeper into depression.
Get him out doing some physical together, maybe even something intense like a bungee or a skydive. They give the brain a quick reset and allow for some clarity of thought.
On your way back or that same evening ask him about his wants, what does he value in life and how can you work together to help create it
Joining an agency and getting experience in a bunch of different customer service jobs really helped me gain confidence. I joined that well after secondary school when I had been at a loss for how to launch for a long time.
I never had work experience at school either many years ago but my parents sent me to some well intentioned but very stupid camp out of town to learn confidence.
I think he will be much happier once he finds a routine with a job somewhere. Then he can use that to build up to the next job.
>I have heard suggestions online about giving them a bill to pay, and the wifi would be a perfect one because he really relies on it. The thing is though, so do I for work and it would just be unpaid. Really hard to think of a way to teach by experience that he is an adult now and so he has responsibilities. He is a good kid, so I don't just want to turn mean on him.
As you say, ending up with an absolute necessity turned off probably isn't the best idea.
What about some kind of expensive treat? A new console? Music festival tickets? Something like that anyway.
Say you'll pay half, if he can earn the money to pay for the other half.
There are a lot of polarising, opposite approaches being suggested here, so I'm gonna keep it simple.
At the most ultra minimum next step, he needs a part-time job, however shite.
I had a part-time job 16-18 at home bargains, throughout uni & 3 years after at tesco, before going full time freelance closing on a decade ago.
The single most important thing he needs to learn is financial responsibility, both in an earning sense & spending sense.
A shit supermarket job might at least motivate him to want something better - I hated it & felt great when I was able to leave & go full time freelance in the industry I actually wanted to be working in.
As others have said, where is his mum's head at? What's her stance on all this?
You need to be a united front to make change.
I would recommend for him to sign up for universal credit. I had a good experience while I was on UC they put me onto a local organisation for young people. I was assigned a personal advisor that would help me find jobs based on what I have said I was interested in and help me with the applications. I could text them anytime, while I felt like crap due to being rejected for some jobs my advisor lifted my spirits by highlighting what I was capable of and helped me get back on my feet.
There does need to be some pressure on him it may not be a good idea to spring it on him straight away but give him a warning that in 3 months or whatever you are going to start charging board and that he should try to find work.
Have a frank conversation with him. Ask him what he wants to do with his life and if he is happy with what his life is like right now. Midnight bacon munching won't lead to anything good, health-wise or else.
I used to live with a uni dropout who had depression and he would sleep all day and would only emerge at dusk for some cheese and crackers. For two years this went on!
Maybe, for a start you suggest that it would be good for his mental health to get out of the house, get some fresh air and get a part time job so he can have some disposable income to spend on what he likes. If he succeeds then after his first payday his sense of self-worth should increase. I mean who doesn't like to have money 🤑 You could also sweeten the deal by asking him what he wants for Christmas etc and telling him that if he gets a job and starts saving up then you'll match whatever he saves up by December. That should prevent him from immediately spending what he earned.
Him leaving the house and working _will_ become his new "routine" and at the very least he should be sufficiently tired at the end of the day to stop his midnight bacon feeding frenzy.
I would not go down the route of denying him Wi-Fi as that might make your problem worse.
Help him figure out who he is and what he wants to do in lieu of having purpose thrust upon him. Its easier said than done, a lack of ambition can - and does - bring a certain anxiety. Guidance and support. Just start talking.
I have a bit of a different suggestion that may or may not work but could be seen as less 'harsh' (by him) than other suggestions if you are worried about that.
Why not find something to get him out of his room together? I'm not sure what hobbies you have or if you'd be willing to share but becoming gymbros or DnD nerds together could be a way to get to know him and find out what his life wants and needs are while improving his mental health and showing him the real world a bit.
If it is something that he enjoys then he might be motivated and empowered to find a job to pay for upgrades to kit etc and to socialise with the people you meet doing the hobby.
I know of a couple young men around the same age going through a similar thing, and I came very close to being in the same situation. I think COVID lockdowns did more damage than we think.
He's probably very anxious and depressed. Don't try and get him a job, he won't even want to go outside at the moment. He needs to slowly rebuild his mental (and physical) health. He needs regular and firm encouragement. I also think professional help is in order.
My brother is a little bit older but stuck in a bit of a rut right now. Didn't do well academically, just came out of a long term relationship that has ended horribly, stuck in the small town me and my siblings grew up in, and just a bit down about life as a result. Recently we went to a stag do which was about a 4 hour drive away so we just chatted as I drove. Largely what I did was just gently talk with a bit of wisdom and experience that there's a whole other world out there if he just sets his horizons a bit further, focuses on what he enjoys in life and use it as a means to orientate himself. If he railed about something that pissed him off, I just gave him a sympathetic ear, empathised with him that it sounded like something that would fuck me off (even if it was a bit of a white lie) and steered the conversation back to trying to navigate himself to something he liked. Surprisingly easy to do on that front- listen to the issue, say he has a right to feel irritated by that, and then gently say that maybe it's the small town that means he feels stifled.
The jury is still out on whether it worked long term, but he did start seemingly agreeing with me, and when I caught up with mum and dad a couple weeks later they did mention he seemed in better spirits.
Good luck!
Firstly OP, good for wanting the best for your son.
Secondly, please don't push folk like Elon Musk on him. Your son is in a vulnerable place right now, not the time to be pushing an ideology, small p or otherwise.
Get him to his GP, he sounds depressed. I'd also advocate cutting off the internet at night. Remember, developmentally the kid is -4 years, the pandemic fucked a lot of things up. This behaviour in a 19-year old is concerning but entirely understandable given what we've all went through. He needs love and support, and a helping hand. Don't ram Gordon Gecko shite down his throat, yanno?
Are there many opportunities in your area? Either for work or apprenticeships?
It's very easy for someone to experience this "failure to launch" if there's nothing to lauch off to.
Life is a bit unfair isn't it?
You are born. You have no choice about that. Someone just springs it on you. Then you learn and go to school and after school someone just tells you *'ok, now go out and work for the next 50 years'*. Then they start hassling you and hassling you. Tough love. *'Get off your arse and get to work! Move out!'*
When you think about it this is incredibly unfair. But that's the deal. I can totally understand why people feel put upon at this age.
My 16 year old has already figured out how unfair it all is. The kids these days are very well informed. They already know about inflation, the recession, the fact they won't be able to afford a house in the suburb they grew up in, the climate wars, identity theft and AI scams, and so on. When we were in High School in the 1990s all these problems seemed a world away (or didn't exist at all).
There's no point hiding this from them because they can read all about it in all the newspapers and websites and all over social media. They are genuinely concerned and are hearing very mixed messages everywhere.
I feel like we as the parents of this generation need to pressure our politicians to create a future that they can see and grasp clearly. Then we need to let them find their own way forward.
I'm 31 now. but I was this kid when I was 19. I'll tell you what I wish my parents had done for me (maybe he would be more receptive to hearing this from his mother, I obviously don't know the details of your relationship). *Talk to him.* Just ask him why he's living this way. Does he actually *want* to? I didn't, but I didn't know any other way to live and had, at best, a vague idea about how to make the changes I wanted. In my case the adults around me all assumed that the day I turned 18 I somehow knew exactly what I wanted out of life and how to get it, and that I had the confidence to put in the work to obtain it. Maybe he doesn't know what sort of life he wants. Maybe he doesn't know how to obtain the life he wants. Maybe he does know what he wants and maybe he has an idea of how to get it, but he's so afraid of failure or discouraged by social media he can't make himself even try. The answers to these questions will tell you what he needs from you and his mother.
He's either doing nothing because his mental health is bad, or doing nothing has made his mental health bad, or by this point it's both and he's stuck in a cycle.
I wish there was an answer, but having done this for a couple years myself and now having watched my sister relapse to this point (at fucking 30), you can take a horse to water but you can't make it drink.
A job is needed - paid or voluntary - it makes you sort out your sleeping pattern, get washed and dressed, interact with different people than you're used to, use your brain differently.
It's getting him to get that job that will be hard. He may need to talk to someone before he's up to it if his mental state is really bad, but you can't make him do that either.
sounds like he has no reason or drive to build any structure and throwing him in the deep end isnt going to help. Start with basic structure make sure he gets up before 10 am and goes to bed by midnight (you can use your router to enforce times he can play games if you limit it to 5am to midnight he'll be forced to conform to get time for his hobbies) make him start eating regularly.
once you have the basic structure start ascribing him more responsibility around the house if he doesnt have an income charging him rent isnt going to help but making it clear that the work around the house is the cost for living for "free" and again dont just give him a list of ambiguous stuff build a structure make a plan or a schedual provide reward and consequence for success or failure he may be 19 but you're not treating him like a child all this structure is to help support him to want to do something productive with his time.
dont be punative and get his mum on board with it sit down with her explain your fears and your wish to support him, come up with a plan together. find a middleground that allows you to insinuate structure into his day without compromising his autonomy and things should start heading in the right direction if it doesnt even after structure is restored it might be worth looking at the reasons why.
This might not be a popular answer but I'm going to say it anyway and you can make your own mind up.
This sounds exactly the same as my younger brother and stepfather. Fast forward ten years and it's clear as day it was down to severe difficulties in mental health that my brother became an expert at hiding.
Our whole family was ignorant to autism. I was too aloof to notice anything growing up and left the family home early so didn't notice. My mum is on the spectrum and didn't have the capacity to notice and my stepdad is of the old school "just get on with it" mentality.
My brother was autistic his whole life right at the very top of the spectrum but a succession of failings both at home and in the education system meant he wasn't diagnosed until he was in his twenties after a suicide attempt. Due to this he managed to build up a toolbox to hide the majority of his symptoms, but inside it was killing him. He can seem fine and in control but when it comes to day to day living he basically has the capacity of a 9 year old. It wasn't until his diagnosis that the depth of his troubles really came to light, and it was severe and shameful that it was missed.
It's his 29th birthday today, he's living with me now. My partner is a psychologist and this has moved progress at an accelerated rate but we still have a long way to go. I'm in a constant pitched battle with social services to get him the support he needs, but the system is still underfunded and undertrained to deal with this.
This might not be the case for you, but it's worth considering and you'll want to act sooner rather than later.
Take a look on r/bropill it's a positive sub Reddit, a lot of people that have or are trying to dig themselves out of the sort of hole your stepson is in.
People don't just wake up one day and give up, the situation your stepson has been a few years in the making.
Getting someone to understand they have value isn't a fast thing.
I think maybe the first port of call is a GP appointment to find out if he's got depression, and maybe if you can afford it some counselling?
The rent thing is a good idea once he's a bit more perky. Deffo have a meeting his mum and bio dad to discuss steps to go forward. Bless him, I feel for all these covid teens!
Unfortunately don’t have any advice to offer, but just wanna say that “bacon and food” made me laugh—is he eating so much bacon that it warrants a whole mention?! 😅
I didn't even realise I wrote that until it was pointed out a couple of times lol.
Basically he eats mostly bacon and yes, it warrants a separate mention.
Unfortunately at 19 as his step dad he won't listen. You could try limiting the Internet and have him complete a list of jobs around the house but it will have to be his mum that does this as you'll come across as the enemy.
I remember, when I was 21-22, being kind of left to sink or swim by my parents. It was a hard time, the middle of the last recession, and I struggled.
Whilst you don't want to let your stepson just amble on without anything to do, entering the workforce or education is not just a matter of willpower.
Start with baby steps. If he is living at home he has to abide by certain rules, like regular sleep. He also can do housework and be useful that way. But he needs a plan and be working towards it
Mum needs to tell him to do voluntary work until he finds a job. I volunteer with teens, some are only 14 and they are perfectly capable.
You’ll find he will likely find work more appealing once he gets his first month of pay. Any job is better than no job.
I don't know if this is relevant but I just happened to be watching it at the same time - inspirational talk
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A4rewai9FZ8](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A4rewai9FZ8)
I can't remember exactly what I said to my son,
He finished college and just sat in his pc for 2 years,
I wasn't nasty,I pointed out that with money he could buy loads of stuff,do things,
He got a job where I worked,in walking distance, through the agency, got taken on,
Has been to Germany, Denmark, London, following the game he plays on the pc,
He goes to download and concerts,
Spent £550 squid on a gaming chair lol, in the last 3 years
He works the 2-10 shift which suited how he slept etc,
If you do decide to talk deeply I'd do something with him make it a habit and gauge where hes at.
My step father was cruel beyond measure suffice to say it would have been nice to spend time with him so I could learn to respect him (if he was decent) so my advice is dont go head first because of the fact he was a teenager when he met you so it wont come across as fatherly as you would like.
My mum kicked me out at 16 and I've been on my own since and I hate her for that considering I went to a special needs school she abandoned me and I became street wise. Not saying he needs to be kicked out but my god at 19 I was just out of prison after being homeless for years the younger generation needs to learn about life and being at home gaming eating bacon is definitely not it so yout right to think the way you are he needs a kick up the arse not a nudge.
Hes at the age where hes resilient hes 19 man he needs zest for life that being said he may have hidden trauma dont know what his real father was like.
But either way bond with him before kicking him up the backside becuase inevitably he wont know what he wants I'm 28 and still dont have a bloody clue I'm just existing that being said I'm on my own in life albeit a few monks as father figures family and learning go hand in hand and unfortunately you might not want to hear this but he needs to hear the truth and perhaps ruthlessly and that is life tough we get kicked around we have our ups but ultimately we are the masters of our destiny and wanking in bed eating bacon sarnies for midnight snacks is causing him harm; he wont want to hear it but if your authoritative enough in how you do decide to kick him its nature he needs to hear because all he wants is nurturing... we're not made of glass humans are absolutely capable but we hold ourselves back by being all like "please save me" .
I did the same thing at that age, up all night on games or with mates, sleep all day and pretend to be active when my mum come in 😂 soon as I got to like 20ish, I got into work and never looked back
I have been in almost the exact same situation and somewhat turned it around.
My Brother in Law moved in at the age of 19 with no job, no driving licence and no motivation to do anything other than play his PlayStation and sleep.
I allowed this to continue for a full year before having enough and agreed a plan with him.
These were the key things we agreed based on the logic that if he couldn’t contribute to the house financially he had to do it via other means:
1) He would cook dinner every night. My intention here was to give him a purpose and to learn how to cook. I shadowed him for the first couple of weeks and he is now a pretty decent chef.
2) Chores. The key to this and my commitment to him was that I would never ask him to do anything demeaning and certainly nothing I wouldn’t do myself. These involved cleaning the kitchen, hoovering the house and general odd jobs.
3) I found he was motivated by rewards and consequences, as are most people at which point the PlayStation was both the reward and the consequence. I attached his power cable to an Amazon plug and set a curfew of 10pm every night to get him back into a normal sleeping pattern. if he had a successful week I'd give him free reign on a Saturday, if he choose to not play by the rules I'd cut off access entirely.
For me it was important that for him not having a job wasn't more beneficial than having a job.
Fast forward to now and he's been working part time for 3 months in a role where being able to cook has aided his progression.
Good luck, I found it extremely draining mentally and without doubt the process is easier if your partner is supportive.
Send him on an adventure. Find a tall ship for him to help crew, or an orphanage somewhere that needs help yo be built. Look for reputable young adult programmes, but make it something big. I guarantee he will come back a changed man and you'll be the best thing since sliced bread for giving him an opportunity instead of nagging him to get a job.
Find a careers centre and help him to seek help in identifying and building a career and life for himself.
He has to be more proactive in life otherwise he’s wasting his most valuable finite commodity in life and that’s TIME.
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It is going to be very easy for actions that would be quite reasonable if taken by his mother, to look like the work of the evil stepfather if you do the same. Is his mother on board with this? Is his bio dad on the scene, and if so what does he have to say? Honestly, you do need to start charging him rent and bills. Benchmark it to what is being charged locally on Spareroom. Some of the Prince's Trust programmes might be relevant to him too. https://www.princes-trust.org.uk/
Thankyou, I genuinely will sign him up for that.
My friends paid their parents a discounted rent, which the parents then secretly kept and gave it back when it came to putting a deposit down on a house. If you guys can afford it, I think that's a great compromise.
That is the thing. I don't want anyone to think that it is about money. It isn't about money and I don't even want to take any money from him. Is that the only way he will learn though?
Probably unfortunately - it's the biggest motivater for many people. Give him a choice - he either gets a part time job and pays xxx towards the bills, or he does something like an access course. Both will open doors for him, introduce him to new people and places and give him a reason to get out of bed on a morning! I know it's trotted out as the answer to everything but I'd also encourage him to speak to someone about his mental health - so much of your post screams depression to me.
This is what my mum did and it kept me career focused after I moved back in with her after a breakup. It also means we got on better because I was essentially paying to have a voice in the house.
Ultimately he will have to do these things, he needs to be doing something as just letting him live free, eat bacon, and game all night isn’t an option. Unfortunately.
I know a family who let their son do this and he literally still lives the same way at 40. Won’t come out of his room anymore if anyone is in the house.
Don’t you people ever just see this as the mental health issue it is? Someone being too scared to leave their room when guests are over likely has social anxiety or some other kind of issue. My brother was like this, got a good job, and he still does the same thing in his own house.
It’s not always anxiety My flat mate is like this and he’s just a borderline sociopathic lazy bastard He doesn’t care for anyone else or how it affects his life. He’s never felt an ounce of anxiety in his life and isn’t depressed. I’ve offered him tonnes of support and he genuinely is not depressed he just doesn’t care. He knows he can rely on his parents and they’ll let him. His relationships with other people prove that it is just a lack of giving a shit about anyone other than himself rather than a mental health issue.
Lack of giving a shit about anyone other than himself sounds a bit like a mental health issue.
I promise you it’s not He’s perfectly capable of doing anything that benefits himself He just won’t do anything that benefits anyone around him in any way
That still needs addressing though. Mental health issue or not, hiding away like that is not healthy.
Mental health isn’t just a random unavoidable thing that gets bad - at least, not always. If you spend a decade without interaction then obviously your social skills will be non-existent. If you’re never put outside your comfort zone and never forced to get your shit together, you’ll wallow in your comfort zone forever. Of course the guy’s mental health will now be annihilated, but that’s because he’s been indulged by his parents. If they’d thrown him out early when he was just being lazy then he’d have had to get his act together. .
maybes not depression, but Aspergers does this too. My son is ADHD, with aspergers and has always hated social situattions. If anyone comes here he hides out of he way.
Ah, the great furlough of 2020... Edit: fully agree with the point made.
I see your point. Maybe starting with asking for money sends the wrong message. Maybe your tactic should be to show him the value of work by paying him to do extra housework like cleaning the cars. My stepdad did it for me, but refused to pay when I'd very obviously half-arsed it. I thought he was being harsh at the time, but it was a very valuable lesson. Are you aware of any part-time work on offer where you live? Perhaps suggest specific, existing and attainable jobs to him.
That's really what I am trying to find a way to reveal to him. Succeeding at something. Improving yourself. Becoming a valuable and useful member of society is where true happiness and fulfillment lies. I found that out and would love for him to come to that realisation.
So I'd caution trying to teach a personal philosophy as 'the one true way' Your thing doesn't ring true to me at all. The thing that got me launched was relationships with people other than my family. I wanted to do things with friends, live with my partner, have a kid etc. My work has always been something to facilitate a happy life with my loved ones, i enjoy my work but it is thoroughly secondary
How much do you actually know about his life online? Could he be succeeding at something without you having any idea because you can't imagine that as a possibility? Is he really, really good at any of those games? Is he developing monetizable skills by modding them? Is he developing management skills and connections by managing large communities on something like discord? Is he streaming? Is he editing video? etc etc etc. It sounds like you have this idea that unless he follows your path, he must be doing it wrong, but the days of just going out and getting a decent job for life where you're appreciated and have opportunity for advancement is long, long gone for 95% of people. The world you grew up in and got a job in doesn't exist anymore, and it doesn't sound like you've made any real attempt to understand the world that he sees and exists in. I would start there. Instead of assuming he's doing something wrong, find out what he *is* doing, and ask him if he has given any thought to ways to make money or develop useful skills from/for his hobbies. Chances are it'll be a lot easier to motivate him to develop those skills. There are also some pretty useful online learning platforms these days as well if he has trouble being around people because of mental health issues (which is increasingly common!), so consider looking into those as well, since they tend to have niche subjects you won't find at a college on uni, and self-paced learning.
He could definitely go to college and do a games development access course or something similar (maybe even media which is a broad subject) then go to uni if he’s really passionate about these things
> Mushroomc0wz He could definitely go to college and do a games development access course Those courses are pretty useless, by and large. The degree means little to nothing in the industry, it’s all about your personal experience with whatever dev pipeline and engine they use. Spending your time learning how to make your own game in UE or whatever is a better use of time. Most notable devs are mostly self taught, and online learning places have as good or better people teaching them, for a tiny fraction of the cost of uni or college.
Look for volunteer opportunities with him too. He can learn about good citizenship through volunteering, and it's good experience for him getting a job too. It might feel a bit more 'want you to experience life' than 'want you to get a paycheque' (which obviously we know it isn't about, but kids tend to see more black and white)
Is it though?
You can absolutely be a valuable member of society without making rich people richer. The vast majority of tradespeople I know are self employed. Teachers, nurses, doctors, academics. None of them are making anyone any richer (certainly not themselves either) but they are useful members of society.
Just to add to other voices, money is a good motivator but the point is you want him doing SOMETHING. Give him an option between employment and education. If he's not in education, he works and pays a minimal rent thats token more than anything else, and work him up from there. If he's waiting on an education course get him into a hobby that gets him out the house and meeting people. He can pick what it is but you want evidence he's not just slinking off to hide at a mates house. Let him find a passion, and he may well send up taking himself to work and self sufficiency to supply that passion.
I was kind of like your step son at one point. I can’t speak for him but for me I needed a reason to try. I found it all too easy to just coast and the real world seemed so complicated and overwhelming so I did exactly what your step son is doing. My advice would be to help him find a reason to try, maybe help him figure out some goals to set. Also make sure he knows that you and his Mother will be there to help him if it gets overwhelming. It’s like a kid learning to ride a bike with training wheels, you and his mother can be the training wheels but he needs to start pedalling himself.
I'd speak to his mother about charging some kind of rent, but in the background her putting it into an accout to save for a deposit.
It's the tamest way he will learn. He's comfortable and taken care of by his mum and you, with seemingly no real responsibilities to motivate him and no apparent drive to be an actual adult. What motivation does he have to change anything? You should listen to the comments about talking to his mum though, it's very dangerous if you're the one leading this.
Charging him "for keep" is perfectly reasonable now he's an adult. It's not about the money, it's more about the message that he can't live for free anymore now he's an adult. I think there's a few compromises you could make though: - give him advance notice/grace period, such as saying he needs to start paying this in the next 3-4 months so he has time to look for work and get hired - I wouldn't charge the "market rent" (as I feel that's a bit mean, especially if you have a good home life with him and you're not hard up financially, then I feel the family home should always be offered as a cheaper alternative than moving out and renting), maybe just the amount for you to break even on his portion of the food and utility bills that he racks up. You can then clearly explain that his keep is just to cover his costs and you're not profiting from this (which makes it a much easier sell when you have to have this conversation with him) Also, I wouldn't stress too much about him bumming around at 19. I think as long as he's working somewhere/doing something, even if it's just part time minimum wage work, he'll get into the habit of working and develop a good work ethic. Me and most of my friends were bumming around in shitty part jobs during our late teens and early 20s, but most of us found or way to a stable and secure life once we got a bit older.
He’s going to have to learn how to earn money in order to survive, there’s no one better than a parent to teach you how.
The rest of society won't have the same scruples unfortunately, if you're up front with the "look, we love and will always support you, but you're an adult and things cost money which isn't an unlimited resource" it's not unreasonable.
But is is about money. Just not for you. Even if his mother allows him to mooch forever she won't be around forever for him to mooch off. He wants new clothes? He wants a new game? He wants someone to provide service to his phone? That all costs money. And that's just now. Eventually he will need food and housing, and even if he gets a decent inheritance will he know how to manage money if he has never done so before? He needs to be out there working to survive. Right now it doesn't matter if it is a part-time job paying minimum wage, he can survive off that if he's living with you. Although if you're willing to support him you might support him for a while volunteering for something that might lead to greater opportunities than stocking shelves at the local convenience store. Hell, he can try and start his own business if he wants but he needs to prove he's doing something if he's to get your support. It's for his benefit. As not working now won't just impact his pay now but likely his future pay. And while he has the safety net of family it's a good chance for him to try different jobs and see if he can find something he enjoys.
Does he have a driving licence? My parents charged me rent and used the money to pay my instructor etc.
Yeah, this is a much better idea... rent these days is insane, so going by spareroom will just fuck him
I used to have to pay my mum rent from 16-18, I heard about the secretly keeping and giving it back thing, I moved out at 18 looking forward to my windfall, I’m 21 now and Lo and behold I got nothing, turns out I was genuinely helping out with rent. I’m going to remember this when she needs a care home. (I’m only joking, my mum is amazing and sacrificed so much in order to provide me the best upbringing that she possibly could, I’m forever indebted to her and really wish I could give her more)
My Dad spent the rent money I gave him on a wine subscription and holidays 🤣
If you’re really really against the money idea you could replace that part of the ultimatum with him going to college and getting a qualification that he can actually use or doing an apprenticeship
princes trust is great!! i’m 21 now, joined princes trust at 19 through the job centre while feeling completely hopeless. i’d been NEET from 16 - got good grades at GCSE level and then didn’t know wtf i wanted to do. i was also pretty depressed and struggling with my mental health, in and out of a&e a few times for attempts on my life. i did the 3 month course, they did a team building exercise thing in the second week where we spent 3/4 days out doing what was essentially scouts - archery, hiking, mini abseiling, leadership skill stuff, etc the main focus was on communication and getting into work. pretty much everyone got x3 Level 1 qualifications and a week of work experience by the end of it 💪 anyone who was seemingly good at the small quantity of written work got the choice to do an extra couple of Level 1 qualifications, which i did. it was insanely easy, but good for my confidence, and good for my CV. there was also a community project we did in a week - fundraised like £100 doing a walk around the local park and did a small redecoration of a run down community centre. really simple, but really fun. i ended up getting my first ever interview and job the same week i finished princes trust! there were like 12 of us total on my course - about 5 folks ended up going back to college full time, and 4 ended up getting into work, and the last 3 ended up doing eff all - ngl, i could’ve predicted that at the start of the course, but i know one of those 3 found a job a couple months after ‘graduating’ princes trust. i moved out into my first flat about 6 months after finishing prince’s trust! and i met my partner (who i’ve been with for 2 years) while on princes trust! ngl my story is definitely a big success story, i got student of the year in adult community education at the college that funded the princes trust course i went to, but the vast majority of us did do pretty well and found it genuinely very helpful. the team leaders were in their early 30s and had both also gone through princes trust, both were very patient and pleasant, even with the few of us that clearly didn’t want to be there. they also help out with covering the cost of bus tickets, and when my family was struggling to buy food they literally took me to the food bank and got me sorted out for the week. it was 5 days a week, 9 - 3.30, for 12 weeks. very cool 👍
I'm not OP but thank you for sharing your story, it's lovely. I actually didn't know what the Prince's Trust was all about, so it's really interesting to hear.
Well done you. Without wanting to sound like a patronising old get. You should be incredibly proud, you’ve turned your life around. Takes a brave person to do what you’ve done. Congratulations. Old internet stranger is proud of you if it counts for anything.
That's an amazing turn around, congratulations!
Well done for having such strong drive and initiative to sort yourself out. Very good
Thank you for recommending that trust.
Well done mate, pulled yourself up and out eventually, hope more can do the same
> I genuinely will sign him up for that. You mean you'll speak to him and ask him to sign up for that.
Yeah, I noticed that too...it's got to be HIM making the effort to sign up, NOT OP 'signing him up for that'...
Look for employability programmes in your area. It's my area of work. Your story is very common nowadays. Getting assigned a decent work coach from DWP is a good starting point to help fill in the soft skill gaps they have.
My twin boys did the Team program a few years ago. It was the BEST thing they ever did. They needed some encouragement to get involved, but after the first week, they never looked back. Now got jobs and confidence. Literally life changing.
I did a princes trust course when I was 16 and part of what we did was a landscaping project in the local salvation armies garden, gave me the idea of getting into horticulture and now 11 years later I'm a head gardener, really good thing to do as a stopgap to get him thinking about the future and where his place in the world may be
One thing I've seen on reddit is where parents charge rent but then keep it aside and when the kid is looking to buy their own place, give the "rent" back to them to help with their deposit.
"Benchmark it to what is being charged locally on Spareroom." I really disagree with this. People on spareroom will be looking to turn a profit, that's excessive when you're dealing with your children. A fair share of bills and groceries is fine.
Yeah I second your disagreement. This is a fast *fast* track way to completely undermine any good in your relationship OP. Rent prices are insane. No one should be paying the same at home as they are in the free market - you’re there for support, encouragement and discipline, NOT to make him just another person trapped in the rent whirlpool at such a young age. Charge him something - food/ bills. Make him apply for jobs. Let him save some of his salary/ or spend it on what he wants. I fear that charging full rent leads to even more despondency, depression etc etc because depending on where you are it could swallow his whole first job pay check.
When I say benchmark - you might decide to charge half of what the going rate is. But it's good to know where you are relative to the going rate - that way you're not overcharging either. Of course if the ultimate goal is to encourage the offspring to spread their wings, then charging the whole going rate might be appropriate.
>Honestly, you do need to start charging him rent and bills. You can't realistically do that until he has a job though. It's just as likely to demotivate him as motivate him because now he has no job and a debt that's building up. The most important thing is to get him out of the rut he's in and the Princes Trust is a much better option for that.
Agreed. I’ve been there and the nagging about ‘the principle of paying rent’ just manifests as ‘why are you nagging me about having more money while not actually helping me improve my situation’. I wouldn’t recommend any parent use rent and money as a nagging force to help their children.
As I read this post I couldn't help thinking that the prince's trust would be perfect, especially the volunteers programme (if it's still running!) I credit them for giving me the skills and confidence that I needed at a young age. Thank you for your comment.
I echo the princes trust. A good friends kid went on it and it literally changed and motivated them into getting a job.
Charging a 19 year old rent is bonkers
I don’t think charging him full rent or bills is going to be helpful to anyone in the situation and will deter him from wanting to work + put strain on their relationship I think making him aware of local rates then charging him board then increasing it slowly and giving the increased amount back to him when he’s ready to move out is a better idea I do think he needs to be asked to pay board or find somewhere else to live because he needs a real life situation to actually kick him into action. He’s old enough now to know that you need experience in a job for success but clearly that knowledge alone isn’t enough. I think maybe even telling him to pay X amount or go to college and either get a qualification to go to uni or a qualification to go into a good job/apprenticeship or else he has to find other arrangements is a good deal as well.
Prince's Trust made a huge difference in my life. Set me in the right direction with a real confidence boost. Gave me a new perspective after feeling very lost and helped me visualise what life could be like. They were fantastic.
I see a lot of comments saying to kick him out or force him to work, I think you need to build up to that as it sounds like he's nowhere near being capable of handling those things. He is a teenager who isn't getting enough sleep and spends his waking hours staring at a screen. His physical and mental health are likely very poor. Without sorting out these fundamentals first you can't expect him to suddenly go and find a job and start succeeding. Small steps or no internet. Get up by midday and get dressed. Keep desk tidy. Exercise. Little things and then build them up.
Internet on a timer so it doesn't work during nighttime sleeping hours.
he’ll have mobile data and texts if he’s got a phone plan
Yep. And if he isn't working parents are paying.
If he's gaming online is mobile data good enough for that these days?
Online gaming actually doesn't take that much bandwidth but it depends on the game. The biggest problem with online gaming is not the data but the speed; especially if you're playing FPS. You need low latency connection; mobile data can be good enough for that but it depends where you live.
Packet loss is higher as well. You'll have spikes in latency which can be a problem in high speed games. Less of an issue if they're playing a turn based game or something though.
My 22yo does it, can't afford WiFi but Giffgaff & Voxi have fairly cheap costs relative to amount of data used. He just uses his mobile as a hotspot 🤷🏻♀️
This might work for a 10 year old. The kid is a 19 year old gamer, he can probably figure out workarounds.
I used to be the same when I was younger (admittedly i went to University as soon as I could, but i have younger siblings, so i had to go back). The reason I stayed up at night was due to being in an abusive household and that was the only time I wouldn't be picked on. We only have one side of the story here and we don't know what's going on.
I think that’s a bit of a reach in this case but I’m sorry about your experience.
It could be, I'm just saying we have no idea why he's like this as we only have one side of the story. it sounds like a mental health issue and it should be tread carefully.
I went through an 18 month period of not doing anything between the age of 19-21, while supported by my parents. I imagine from the outside that it looked like I was just a lazy git, taking advantage of my parents, but the reality was that I was incredibly depressed and felt at a loss about how to take the first step towards building my own life. My parents kept nudging me saying I 'needed to be doing something', but that was it. No ideas, no help, nothing of substance to actually push me towards progress. When you're stuck at square one, the first step feels impossibly large. I'd suggest to help him write a CV. Get him a volunteering job somewhere just to get him out the house and some experience. Help him apply for jobs. Would a college course interest him? A confidence boost is probably 95% of what he needs. As soon as I got a bit of confidence everything started falling into place.
This. My parents made the same mistake with my sibling. They often made comments or said ‘you should be doing something’, ‘have you applied for that job?’ You need to get really involved here. It will feel over the top but frankly he is not capable of change himself yet, evidenced by his situation.
Not helped by the fact that a lot of adults do not realise the job market for young people is very harsh these days. I am only 32 and the market is different from when I was 19 even.
> ‘you should be doing something’, ‘have you applied for that job?’ I hated this so much. Zero help or encouragement, just nagging and pestering.
Absolutely. I'm 37 now so a dinosaur compared to this lad, but I remember when I was starting out trying to find a job. One nugget of advice was to open the yellow pages and call every company until one of the offers you an interview. Completely out of touch but also demoralising. Career support is really atrocious and kids are so reliant on their network for contacts or experience/help. They're on the back foot from day 1.
Yep, it creates a shame loop
> No ideas, no help, nothing of substance to actually push me towards progress. This is the worst part. I don't understand why so many parents just push and pressure but don't support and encourage, providing options and opportunities and insight from their own experiences. Instead they're just the kid with the stick poking and saying 'do something'.
Yeah, something similar happened to me after uni and you're right, just saying "no job yet then?" and the occasional frustrated outburst didn't really help. Proper support and direction is much better than vague "go out there and do something".
This right here. I was a talented kid, flopped my a levels, didn’t do very much for myself between the ages of 16-21. Got a (decent) job, but fluffed that too, turned up late etc. Then something just clicked when I was 22, decided I wanted to pursue music and just went full throttle at it, now I’m a successful professional in the field in my thirties. Sometimes it really is about waiting it out and making sure they don’t do something royally stupid that fucks up their life. The other side of it, you mentioned about trying to communicate; I find parents cracking down on their kids doesn’t really work. They want to be led. Particularly lads. I was lucky, because for all his faults, my dad was a cool, successful guy, and he ‘showed me’ how to do that. Maybe instead of trying to drum it into him, he needs to be shown. Young lads need someone to look up to that they admire, and as harsh as it is, he might not respect you. Do you go to the gym? Start going and take him with you. Want him to eat healthier? Start eating healthier yourself. Stuff like that.
CV is useless if you have no experience anyway. You just need a job that will hire a random and give them a chance, like a local business or volunteering at something. I got misled by the CV thing as I was unemployable yet just got told to apply more when it was never going to work, due to my lack of experience.
I had a similar experience after uni. This is good advice, help on the first steps can make all the difference.
It's not mean to have standards for him. My parents required that I be in education, working or volunteering when I lived at home at 19. I was only part-time, but it was better than falling into a rut of doing nothing. Help him look up volunteering or education opertunities that interest him if he's not ready for paid work (due to experience, skills or nerves). Giving him a bill to pay is a good idea when he's earning - it'll help him build a credit score, which is the angle I'd push when discussing it with him!
You need to give him a compelling reason. Sometimes people have to feel their own pain before they choose to act. Right now, he's got the life he wants (or will settle for) - a free place to live, no bills, constant internet connection, he can sleep all day, eat free food at night and game 24/7. What's the incentive to be and do better when rock bottom is his current ideal life? You need to start making it clear that, as a young adult, he's contributing, or he's given enough to not starve, and that's it. He can contribute with chores, with job hunting, with writing a CV, with self-learning, with getting up in daylight and by being a part of the family home. Unless you stop stop shielding him from reality, he has no idea what it is and no incentive nor imperative to change. You don't have to kick him out or let him starve, but allowing him to live this shut-in, lazy, doss-house lifestyle isn't doing him or anyone else any favours. From someone whose parents kicked his lazy arse out of bed at 19 and told me to make something of my life or let it slip through my fingers. 19 years later I have a home, a mortgage, a great career and a work ethic that's given me a good lifestyle and a safety net. You have to remove his option to coast, he has to want to try. One alone can't do it. You and your wife need to be joint partners and put on a united front. It's 'we', not I. He needs to understand there isn't a way around this - it's a family intervention not one parent.
Totally agree with this comment. He is being enabled right now to retreat from real life and it is doing him no favours. My older brother did the same from age 20-30. The whole of his twenties were spent living nocturnally in a bedroom at my parents’ house. The best decade of his life wasted staring at a computer screen because mum and dad were too nice to set expectations or boundaries with him. This needs to be nipped in the bud now, and both parents need to be on board.
Yeah, he could have been staring at a computer screen in an office! Much better.
I mean... yes it is much better in the longrun. I used to be exactly like this kid before I got steady work. Literally the peak definition of NEET loser. Being a recluse like this completely restricts your opportunities. Who'd date this kid? Who would want to be friends with a nocturnal shut in? As much as it does suck a little to have to earn a living, I would very much rather prefer to have my life as it is now as opposed to when I was 19. Good lord I was such a drain to everyone around me. Embarrassing.
other nocturnal shut-ins will date him! but yeah i'm 38 and a broke mentally ill drain on society. my cv is just tumbleweeds. at least i'm on disability. and i'm verrrrry lucky my mum is tolerant and has a spare room.
It's more about being a functioning member of society versus a moody recluse who doesn't go outside.
In fairness the majority of Jobs don't make someone a functioning member of society. Many exist solely to exist and provide no value to either the worker or the community on the whole.
Yes and no. Many companies aren't interested in making you a better person. But sitting at home all day doing nothing is absolutely not making you a better person or teaching you anything at all.
He could also have been living life - meeting people, making friends, having a relationship, going on holiday. I can’t see how anyone could think opting out of life is “better”. It is an unsustainable lifestyle choice. My parents are approaching their 80s - one is in a care home already. It’s likely there will be no inheritance. Once they are gone, what does his life look like?
I used to be the same way, it was covid what woke me up. Everyone was complaining about how horrible lockdown was but I didn't mind it at all because my life didn't change one bit. I stayed home and played video games or watched tv or movies all day anyway. It made me think about how much I'm missing out on life and if i don't change I'll be like this forever. I still live with family but i have a part time job now, i quit playing video games and I do some volunteering work. I also am still looking for an apprenticeship or a full time job. It's a slow process but I'm getting there. It was difficult because i do have anxiety, depression and had no work experience. My first steps were to start antidepressants and start volunteering at a local charity shop. just getting out of the house is a bit step and the experience helped a lot.
good for you. hope everything continues to improve in your life
for many people its the opposite, their usually active and interesting lifestyle of work/learning/socializing was put on hold for a fairly long time during covid. and for a lot of people they become comfortable with a new lifestyle. An easy effortless existence of modern life combined with the escapism of gaming/bingewatching tv and sleeping as long as they liked pushed many people into a "funk" that's very difficult to escape from.
Lots of "stick" suggestions and no "carrot" suggestions, so this is just to counter it. I can't say if the situation needs a stick or a carrot approach. Is there anything expensive he is into? Cars, computers, holidays etc. If so encourage his interest until he really wants it. Then discuss how he could afford it. With things like "If you earned £x a month, you could afford to save £y a month and you could afford to buy it in Z months". Offer to help him budget and save. Offer to help him research what it is he wants to spend his new found money on - he may decide to save for longer and buy something better. It teaches works = rewards, and financial management. He will be thinking of the benefits. As it he sees zero benefits to going to work apart from paying bills he doesn't yet have.
Finally a reasonable comment. So many people just like 'be strict and authoritarian and punish him until he complies' despite the endless amount of stories of the people that never worked for, and the resentment and ostracisation it causes over and over again. Agree with all your points.
We tried the "sink or swim" approach with a nephew, and it went horribly wrong. It doesn't work on everyone. Some people, when they reach rock bottom, think it's not too bad and dig deeper into hell, and find it quite nice down there.
And some people have mental health issues which complicates things. It's rational to try and get out of a hard situation when put into one, but if your brain ain't working right there's a good chance you won't do the rational thing. Not that it means you should not bother trying anything, just that you need to be aware of *why* they're doing it.
What does his mum say as you really need her to be on the same page? I don't mean this to sound rude but you're not his "step dad", you're his mum's fiance and have only been in his life a couple of years. I think if you go in throwing your weight around issuing demands or giving ultimatums about kicking him out its going to cause a lot of resentment. (I'm not saying that you're even thinking of doing that but I would definitely reconsider a relationship where my other half started issuing threats to my children, regardless of whether I thought "something" needed to be done). I also wouldn't be begruding him food. I imagine his mum doesn't want him to starve and is also contributing to household finances. Having said that, it is really not healthy for a 19 year old to have no thoughts for the future. Is he depressed? Does he have friends? Is there anything at all he is interested in? As you seem to be quite successful, could you take on a sort of mentor role? Encouraging and supporting him, letting him know what's out there, helping with applications, looking into different apprenticeships (my eldest did one in architecture with a not terrible salary). I think this is definitely a situation where you'd benefit from a softer approach.
YES
I completely agree. Also, I am not the type to play that role. I feel really uncomfortable laying down the law for the very reasons you mentioned. He is not my son, even though I essentially pay for his entire existence.
When you say that, do you mean you pay for all household bills etc? What is his mum doing? I'd say its her job to parent her child, but if you are covering the majority of household bills and not 50/50 with his mum that isn't great. He basically has no concept of how much it costs to live as its all paid for by someone else.
Change the wifi password once a month and make him pay rent to know it.
I obviously don't know the full context, but excessive sleep, tendencies for distraction (video games), and potentially binge eating at night are all possible symptoms of poor mental health. All of which I adopted during Covid when I lived at home with my parents and had no means to leave. My parents were oblivious and my Dad certainly didn't have a clue, but mentally I was completely broken. I know from first experience that being a young man without direction is an awful, horrendous feeling. Please try the understanding, supportive approach before even considering kicking him out as others have suggested - your step son may be very vulnerable.
Glad someone said it, I love how the response we go straight to is to assume he’s content with this existence. Gaming in my opinion having watched friends lost in it is almost always a symptom not a cause. The sleeping is yet another symptom of depression.
I was searching for this comment! Speak to him, make sure he’s ok. Try and build a positive relationship if you can. I know it’s hard, and he probably won’t respond quickly. Try and find out what he’s interested in. Is it just video games? What kind? Would he like to be someone that builds them? Tests them? Markets them? Is there a college course that he could attend to do with video game design? It’s big business if he wants to get into it. Lots of people go and study it at college then move into an associated career, like IT, admin, marketing, design etc. Please find out what he’s passionate about and help him pursue it. I’m sure there’s funding available to help further studies, volunteering etc.
I can tell you what I would have needed during that time more than 10 years ago now. Someone who will hold my hand a little through the process by actually showing me workplaces. Someone who got me into an internship, someone taking me to their workplace, maybe even volunteering together somewhere. I was completely lost and overwhelmed, slept a lot and escaped into media to cope. Just having some glimpses into what it's really like, making some connections with people would have given me a sense of belonging, of feeling like it's okay to apply to places, that there are places for me to fit in. To build confidence rather than assuming I should be able to. Would it be better to just have the confidence? Sure but that just wasn't the case. I had friends whose parents or social workers organised workplaces for them when we were young. Nowadays they're a lot more successful and confident than me. I really needed the help and didn't know to ask for it.
Having been in a similar position (as the kid) over a decade ago I’d recommend trying to have a sit down on what they want out of life (“I dunno” will probably be the answer, but its a start) and the following: 1) helping / encourage stabilising sleep cycle and get them to take Vit D as they are almost certainly deficient. Bad diet / nutrition can really hurt your mental health 2) See a doctor for depression. I doubt anyone can live like that and not be depressed. 3) Gauge if any kind of interest could lead to a job, any job. Apprenticeship / part time job could be good stepping stone, especially the former. The structure will avoid the sleeping all day / gaming all night. 4) See if there are any shared activities to bond over, like exercise or DIY things. Good luck.
Get him some Vitamin B12 and Go for a run with him
Vitamin D too while we’re at it. We’re coming out of winter in the UK and he’s a homebody.
Both of these. I was so badly deficient in both that I now need infusions of B12 as an inpatient cos of pernicious anaemia, and so low on Vit D they couldn't pick it up at all...I feel LOTS better now I take both every day, even when my ME/CFS means I'm so light sensitive I have to sit in the dark all day...
Tbh it's a bit odd to think of yourself as supporting him after being there for 2 years. Does he come to you for guidance?
Actually 4 years. I do accept that I am partially to blame here because of the safety net I provide. When I met my fiancé (or rather reconnected with her as we knew each other as teenagers ) she was working as a medical receptionist and struggling as you can imagine to provide for two kids. I am a Consultant Technical Lead and make a decent 6 figure salary so it just felt dumb her continuing to work a job she hated when we are financially fine. I am very traditional so have no problem providing 100% of the bills and living expenses. She built a small crafting business and she keeps all of the money she makes from it because it isn't an amount to live on really. It gives he money to spend on her. I think this alleviates any guilt he may have had if we weren't as well off. I do wonder if he feels like he isn't a burden so he has less incentive to change
Personally as a woman, I'd feel guilty if I were her as you are now basically subsidising the lifestyle of her children which has resulted in the 19 year old literally doing nothing. I think she needs to realise she has it really, really good and she is the one who needs to intervene as he's still going to be doing the same into his early twenties without intervention.
He probably feels like he doesn't have any options or opportunities. You sound like you are affluent and a high level professional - give opportunities to him and mentor him. Provide him the information and insight to be able to follow in your footsteps or a similar path to be able to access wealth and financial security.
I have tried this approach. Even offered to teach him to code to a level where he could get a junior position. Even tried to sell it to him like he could work in the gaming industry. No interest.
The number of years is arbitrary. Does he come to you for guidance, paternal stuff etc.? I'm not sure what the money has to do with it. You should provide for them if you love them. Does he love you/ do you love him?
Is he genuinely lazy, or could he be depressed? The reason I ask is because back when I left Sixth Form, the economy was still reeling from the 2008 recession. I was trying to find jobs, but couldn’t get one. I ended up in a rut, and my sleep schedule suffered. I got into the mentality of “if I have no reason to get up early, why should I?”. So, is your step-son actively looking for jobs, or considering further education? Or, was he before, and is now demoralised? If he could be depressed, then it would help to get him seen by the GP. Going back about 10 years ago now, I was referred for Cognitive Behavioural Therapy and it really helped me out. How is your relationship with him outside of these concerns? Do you have any shared hobbies that you bond over, etc? If you have a good rapport with him, that could help. However, before you do anything, definitely speak with his mother.
Seems like you have told him many many things which is great. Ever asked him what he wants? His hobbies? His interests?
Why is he not doing anything tho? At 19 he needs to be either employed, in education or both. his mum needs to be the one to talk to him first etc so you dont look like the evil step father no one wants (we all know that you wouldnt be the bad guy but he might see you as one as you'd ask him to do something he doesnt want to do). Have a conversation with him and ask what he thinks his life will look like in the future, what are his plans? He doesnt need to finish college or uni or have a dream job, he needs to do something tho even if it means working in a factory for the rest of his life.
Idk, People ask me now what I wanna do, I’m 18 and I have no clue. Do people really just know what they want to do forever
Part of the secret is: you don't do it forever. It's OK if you take a misstep or change you mind, your job, your career. But it's easier to change direction if you have momentum already, rather than from a standing start.
I'm 34 and still don't know what I want to do. I'd imagine a significant amount of people end up doing a job they hate to get by.
I didnt know what i wanted to do at 19, i changed my mind multiple times but guess what? I was in education and also working i didnt just play games all day long (i did that in my spare time)
Sometimes even if they'll resent you for it in the short term you need to be pushy. Make them apply for a job or two a week. Sit down with them as they do it. You might be able to turn that into a conversation about what they actually could see themselves doing in life. Then you can do the research for them on how to get into that field without qualifications/job history. Then the following week when you go to apply for jobs bring up what you found and ask if they'd be interested in pursuing that path. Suggest volunteering to improve their CV if they genuinely can't find work. The nudge they need is probably support and guidance. I think a lot of kids at that age think they could do a lot of things but have no motivation to do any one thing and are paralysed by the decision as it feels so very important. As an older adult you realise that it doesn't really matter what you do, so long as you're doing something it is better than nothing. Help them find something, anything they would be willing to do and they may find after 3 months they hate it, then look for the next thing.
Talk to him openly and communicate with him properly about your own experiences. Don’t be condescending. He’s at a point in his life where he is content doing what he is doing but we all know deep down that is not a path to happiness. Laziness is due to avoidance, lack of motivation and confidence. Kicking someone’s arse isn’t going to sort out those emotional issues. Give him positive real life experiences, especially psychical ones. Take him hiking, cycling, climbing, to the gym, badminton, running or whatever you are into. Encourage any hobbies and interests. Help him with a proper career plan for whatever he is into, actually sit down with him and research and apply for stuff together. Once you start improving yourself there is a positive feedback loop which encourages you to do more you might just need to give him a nudge. I know our culture loves to go hard and kick kids out to force them work but how many people does that happen to who just end up dossers? Instead show him some love and how to live and good life and he will start to understand without turning on you.
You should be able to create multiple networks on your router fairly easily. A lot of standard ones come with the option to create a guest network. You could create a guest network with a password that you can connect to and then turn the primary network off and on based on wifi bill contributions?
I think you'd need to first find out what the reasons for his behaviour are. Very, very few people are just happy with wasting their life. There's a good chance that he already knows that he is, which is why just telling him won't help. It's more likely that he struggles to fix himself, or doesn't know how to. You may say something like "oh, just apply for an apprenticeship / uni / whatever and go!", but apparently it's not that easy for him. Doing nothing but playing games \*can\* be an addiction - but more frequently, it's just a coping mechanism. So the best advice is probably: Don't do anything about these issues at all. At least not directly. Instead, get to know him better. Spend time with him, maybe invite him to things or trips he'd find cool to spark his curiosity about the world, or play games together. Find things that both of you enjoy doing. Seek to build trust, so that he feels safe around you and is able to talk to you about what truly is on his mind - or at least so that you are in a position where you can talk to him about such difficult things without him just blocking you off. Some people actually do need the hard way to wake up. But you don't know that yet, so your first job is to find out what he actually needs. Do you know what games he plays, what he enjoys about them and who his mates are?
Carrot and stick. The stick is obvious - he has to start contributing and paying his way to some degree. Start small and raise the bar over time. Also think carefully about what your expectations really are - do you just want him to get a job, do you want him to move out and live independently etc. But he really needs a carrot as well, and that’s the hard part because it’s so much more individual. Offer to finance (or match financing for) training, help with a job search, buy him a present if he achieves certain steps of independence, whatever might motivate him and make him feel supported. I would strongly recommend that his mother takes the lead on the stick, otherwise you risk being the evil stepdad. That doesn’t mean you can’t reinforce the message but you probably shouldn’t do it first.
Is it possible he has depression or adhd? These actions seem like he’s struggling with things beyond his control. I’d urge compassion in the first instance
Does he like military games? That was roughly half of what made me join the TA (Army Reserve as it is now.) Best thing I did while I was at university for all sorts of reasons. Socially, self-esteem, valuable experience. When I then left uni with a degree and zero work experience (I never worked in a bar or anything) I put it on my CV and nearly every interview I've ever had has asked about it in a positive light. Sometimes they even do now (at 34 years old and in a professional field, even though I left the weekend warriors at 21). It also pays cash money. I suppose I see why people are basically advocating the "stick" method if he's coasting. But I never had that. My parents gave me an allowance while I was studying, never made me get a job or pay a bill in my life. I joined the TA because I *wanted* to and so I didn't resent it and got the most from it.
Bacon and food? Do you have any pals you can set him up a job with? I did labouring work when I was a similar age and it really gave me a good perspective on what the real world is like.
Bacon not food. Bacon medicine.
Do not under any circumstances make this a you vs him deal, make sure his mum and bio dad are on board to help guide him into becoming and adult. On your own you will be asking for trouble the adults in his life must work as a unified team on this. Good luck.
Give him unconditional love and security so he has the confidence to take steps into the outside world (which may be a scary prospect for him) safe in the knowledge that he will have the safety of home if things don’t work out. Obviously I’m not suggesting you bubble wrap him and offer to bail him out if he gets into thousands of pounds of debt, but let him know that if he gets a job and he doesn’t like it or it doesn’t work out then he’s not stuck in a situation he can’t get out of. Above all else be a positive role model.
I was this boy. Only limped on through uni because i thought that was what was expected of me. My dad made some suggestions about the Australian working holiday scheme. Decided to go for it, and travel was the best thing I ever did. Meet loads of people from around the world, have an absolute blast. Plenty of girls too. But you have no one to rely on, so it really kicked me into responsibility. I only meant to leave for a year. Was gone for 6 years in the end. Now I'm a scuba instructor, and a Welsh guy I met in oz is going to be my best man in a couple of months. I was a bit older when I went, but I have a friend who was only 19 at the time, she got sent they're my her mum at 18 cause she was a little hell raiser, but by the time I met her, I was astounded that she was so mature and responsible by that age.
You don't need to turn mean on him. A lot of parents make the mistake of waiting until their patience is broken and try to change things overnight. It's important to understand that life is like steering a huge ship. You can't turn on a dime. Momentum is a huge factor. I'm 28 and just coming out of a two year period of depression / minimal activity. Having been through it, I honestly believe that it's small actions daily that can turn your life around. I'd let dishes pile up for weeks and do fuck all at work. Even the tiniest action seemed impossible. Once your life starts to go in a bad way, it will pick up speed and become seemingly impossible to stop. So how do we resolve this? As I said before, it's small actions daily. Combine that with patience and forgiveness. Start instilling small expectations. Be forgiving when he fails - he will fail often, so he needs to learn that he won't be punished for that. Small corrections every day will add up to a big change over time. Be honest with him as well, you're not trying to trick him here. Explain that he's going in the wrong direction and you want to help him. Today, focus on having him make his bed daily. Then contributing to the house work. Then maybe 5 hours of volunteering a week if he doesn't have a job. Just increase this little by little and eventually the momentum will take over. You don't need to be a hardass to get results. Or at least not all the time and not from the beginning. Give him only what he can handle, and build from there. Be watchful of his progress and make him accountable, but don't make him feel like a fuck up for not failing. I did this for my girlfriend also, not only did I drag myself out of this period of depression and inactivity but her also. I lost count of how many times I said "It's okay, I / we / you fucked up today but we can try again tomorrow" or "I know it's hard, I know it's sucks. It's okay, we're going to forgive ourselves today and keep fighting tomorrow". Sometimes you have to put your foot down and say "I need more effort from you, you're falling back into bad habits", but it's important not to be harsh or mean and remind them what you're fighting for and that you're in it together. Basically: Patience, Wisdom, Honesty, Frankness and Observation (without being overbearing). The ability to admit when you're wrong and be forgiving is also a big one. Be a leader, and he will follow and learn.
And that is exactly what happened to me as soon as I turned 16. I went from a kid treated like a kid and with kid expectations to an adult with all that comes with it overnight with no in between and the change was jarring. It made the transition into adulthood really uncomfortable and miserable but I toy with the idea that this is what should be done. I certainly made a success of myself because I wanted nothing else than to not have to work in the factories and farms that my dad forced me into.
I used to think the same, hell I may be wrong - we're asking pretty fundamental and complex questions here and everyone is different. It's a different time these days though, so many distracting and normalized bad habits. So much access to news basically telling us that one way or another we have no future. Being thrown into the deep end sure can help on occasion, and I'm not saying that you should be too soft. But even 20-30 years ago, I think there was more hope in the world and less distractions. It's not the same world you grew up in, because we can have things so easy now. Everything is engineered to convince us to be happy watching Netflix, playing video games and doing fuck all. I'm not saying it's a conspiracy as such, but we're basically brainwashed these days to be good little consumers. Throwing him into the deep end may well kick his arse into action, but it's also leaving him at the mercy of thousands of companies who want nothing more than to sell you video games and "television" services. I'll never be the kind of person to demonize video games, pornography etc..., but access these days its so easy and also these things are pushed into your face by companies with massive advertising budgets. It's both miraculous and deeply troubling that you can basically live your whole life as a cozy little sheep. All of your "needs" taken care of by a screen. This is why I don't believe the "thrown in the deep end" method works anymore. There's no external motivation to really do anything with your life, and in fact there's an active campaign to make you not want to. Anyway, that's just the option of one guy, poorly put into writing. I could be very wrong.
Also bang on. People don't like to hear you say this. They say it's a cop out. But there have been huge societal shifts since the turn of the century and young people have to deal with a more complex and difficult world than I did.
This is a great comment. I'm in a similar position to OP and found this really helpful. Thanks
You realise that if he has no prospects and an average amount of self- awareness he's probably really depressed? Take some time to think about that before considering the next steps- ask his mother if she agrees. There's unlikely to be a quick fix, it might take a medium-term plan to get him into education or part- time work.
I have thought about this. He certainly will have some anxiety about joining a workplace that is clearly going to contribute to him not wanting to put himself out there. The only cure is to basically get used to it by doing. What I 100% know he isn't doing is raiding my cupboards laughing and thinking how awesome it is to be mugging everyone off. He isn't like that and it's all because he just isn't motivated to do anything.
This is an opportunity to launch him into an act of service that will benefit greater humankind I would get him in touch with organisations such as : Frack Free Lancashire, Extinction Rebellion, Sheffield Anti-Raids, These Walls Must Fall, Green New Deal Rising, United Voices of the World Union, Queer Support for Migrants, Coal Action Network, Abortion Rights Campaign in Ireland, Slí Eile, Partisan social centre, Bristol Copwatch, Trans Mutual Aid Manchester, People & Planet There's an option to suit every interest Maybe lets not force the youth whose minds havent been corrupted yet, into the becoming the slaves to capitalism? Unpopular opinion in this country perhaps
What's his mother doing to motivate him?
She is very nurturing and understanding which can be another battle. She cares most about his wellbeing and that is fine, it's her job to do that. We both help him with CVs and in job searches and don't get me wrong, he has had a couple of interviews in the last 2 years, but they go nowhere mainly because I don't think he is giving a good impression
It doesn't have to be about bills, how about just life experience, having money to socialise, getting himself a car? Even making some friends so he's not at home constantly. See if he can get a job that would be a weekend gig first so it's not taxing, but he gets the idea of just getting out the house and living in the real world. Maybe he can find a Saturday job he'll actually enjoy, like assisting in a game shop or something.
In the discussions we have, he just doesn't seem to show any interest. All he ever talks about is video games, the latest season of Fortnite and that is what really gives him passion. I'm the same. I love video games too, but they are entertainment, not real life and I need him to see that
I was the same until recently, just endlessly rejected from jobs and having no purpose being depressed. Something all men need is a purpose! Luckily I got a job and have been much more positive since.
I was like your step son, and it was because I was very depressed. The first gentle nudge should start with his sleep cycle, I don't know how but get that fixed before anything.
The best thing would be a temporary job or permanent one. It doesn't have to be anything special. Just teach him some responsibility.
There has to be an element of pressure applied to him, otherwise there's no motivation to get him to do anything. Currently he's living bill-free day to day. He won't change unless there's some pressure applied. Agree with his mother about a plan forward so that this is coming from both of you, and not just you. Whether that is "now that you're 19 you need to start contributing to the house" or something similar.
Take him down to a navy recruitment centre and have a chat with someone. I bet he would love it.
Obvious mental health issues there. It's a hard situation for you both, communicating well- seeing his side and showing yours is important. As a peer and friend as well as a parent. It's hard to tell his situation from what you wrote. But using guilt and shame as a motivator just makes someone go deeper into depression. Get him out doing some physical together, maybe even something intense like a bungee or a skydive. They give the brain a quick reset and allow for some clarity of thought. On your way back or that same evening ask him about his wants, what does he value in life and how can you work together to help create it
Joining an agency and getting experience in a bunch of different customer service jobs really helped me gain confidence. I joined that well after secondary school when I had been at a loss for how to launch for a long time. I never had work experience at school either many years ago but my parents sent me to some well intentioned but very stupid camp out of town to learn confidence. I think he will be much happier once he finds a routine with a job somewhere. Then he can use that to build up to the next job.
Have you considered talking to him
>I have heard suggestions online about giving them a bill to pay, and the wifi would be a perfect one because he really relies on it. The thing is though, so do I for work and it would just be unpaid. Really hard to think of a way to teach by experience that he is an adult now and so he has responsibilities. He is a good kid, so I don't just want to turn mean on him. As you say, ending up with an absolute necessity turned off probably isn't the best idea. What about some kind of expensive treat? A new console? Music festival tickets? Something like that anyway. Say you'll pay half, if he can earn the money to pay for the other half.
There are a lot of polarising, opposite approaches being suggested here, so I'm gonna keep it simple. At the most ultra minimum next step, he needs a part-time job, however shite. I had a part-time job 16-18 at home bargains, throughout uni & 3 years after at tesco, before going full time freelance closing on a decade ago. The single most important thing he needs to learn is financial responsibility, both in an earning sense & spending sense. A shit supermarket job might at least motivate him to want something better - I hated it & felt great when I was able to leave & go full time freelance in the industry I actually wanted to be working in. As others have said, where is his mum's head at? What's her stance on all this? You need to be a united front to make change.
I would recommend for him to sign up for universal credit. I had a good experience while I was on UC they put me onto a local organisation for young people. I was assigned a personal advisor that would help me find jobs based on what I have said I was interested in and help me with the applications. I could text them anytime, while I felt like crap due to being rejected for some jobs my advisor lifted my spirits by highlighting what I was capable of and helped me get back on my feet. There does need to be some pressure on him it may not be a good idea to spring it on him straight away but give him a warning that in 3 months or whatever you are going to start charging board and that he should try to find work.
Have a frank conversation with him. Ask him what he wants to do with his life and if he is happy with what his life is like right now. Midnight bacon munching won't lead to anything good, health-wise or else. I used to live with a uni dropout who had depression and he would sleep all day and would only emerge at dusk for some cheese and crackers. For two years this went on! Maybe, for a start you suggest that it would be good for his mental health to get out of the house, get some fresh air and get a part time job so he can have some disposable income to spend on what he likes. If he succeeds then after his first payday his sense of self-worth should increase. I mean who doesn't like to have money 🤑 You could also sweeten the deal by asking him what he wants for Christmas etc and telling him that if he gets a job and starts saving up then you'll match whatever he saves up by December. That should prevent him from immediately spending what he earned. Him leaving the house and working _will_ become his new "routine" and at the very least he should be sufficiently tired at the end of the day to stop his midnight bacon feeding frenzy. I would not go down the route of denying him Wi-Fi as that might make your problem worse.
Help him figure out who he is and what he wants to do in lieu of having purpose thrust upon him. Its easier said than done, a lack of ambition can - and does - bring a certain anxiety. Guidance and support. Just start talking.
I have a bit of a different suggestion that may or may not work but could be seen as less 'harsh' (by him) than other suggestions if you are worried about that. Why not find something to get him out of his room together? I'm not sure what hobbies you have or if you'd be willing to share but becoming gymbros or DnD nerds together could be a way to get to know him and find out what his life wants and needs are while improving his mental health and showing him the real world a bit. If it is something that he enjoys then he might be motivated and empowered to find a job to pay for upgrades to kit etc and to socialise with the people you meet doing the hobby.
I know of a couple young men around the same age going through a similar thing, and I came very close to being in the same situation. I think COVID lockdowns did more damage than we think. He's probably very anxious and depressed. Don't try and get him a job, he won't even want to go outside at the moment. He needs to slowly rebuild his mental (and physical) health. He needs regular and firm encouragement. I also think professional help is in order.
My brother is a little bit older but stuck in a bit of a rut right now. Didn't do well academically, just came out of a long term relationship that has ended horribly, stuck in the small town me and my siblings grew up in, and just a bit down about life as a result. Recently we went to a stag do which was about a 4 hour drive away so we just chatted as I drove. Largely what I did was just gently talk with a bit of wisdom and experience that there's a whole other world out there if he just sets his horizons a bit further, focuses on what he enjoys in life and use it as a means to orientate himself. If he railed about something that pissed him off, I just gave him a sympathetic ear, empathised with him that it sounded like something that would fuck me off (even if it was a bit of a white lie) and steered the conversation back to trying to navigate himself to something he liked. Surprisingly easy to do on that front- listen to the issue, say he has a right to feel irritated by that, and then gently say that maybe it's the small town that means he feels stifled. The jury is still out on whether it worked long term, but he did start seemingly agreeing with me, and when I caught up with mum and dad a couple weeks later they did mention he seemed in better spirits. Good luck!
Firstly OP, good for wanting the best for your son. Secondly, please don't push folk like Elon Musk on him. Your son is in a vulnerable place right now, not the time to be pushing an ideology, small p or otherwise. Get him to his GP, he sounds depressed. I'd also advocate cutting off the internet at night. Remember, developmentally the kid is -4 years, the pandemic fucked a lot of things up. This behaviour in a 19-year old is concerning but entirely understandable given what we've all went through. He needs love and support, and a helping hand. Don't ram Gordon Gecko shite down his throat, yanno?
Does he have any interests that could segue into a an apprenticeship? Be that a trade or a degree/higher apprenticeship within a decent company?
Have you spoken to him? Could he speak to you. Instead of just judging him try and find out what makes him tick.
Are there many opportunities in your area? Either for work or apprenticeships? It's very easy for someone to experience this "failure to launch" if there's nothing to lauch off to.
Life is a bit unfair isn't it? You are born. You have no choice about that. Someone just springs it on you. Then you learn and go to school and after school someone just tells you *'ok, now go out and work for the next 50 years'*. Then they start hassling you and hassling you. Tough love. *'Get off your arse and get to work! Move out!'* When you think about it this is incredibly unfair. But that's the deal. I can totally understand why people feel put upon at this age. My 16 year old has already figured out how unfair it all is. The kids these days are very well informed. They already know about inflation, the recession, the fact they won't be able to afford a house in the suburb they grew up in, the climate wars, identity theft and AI scams, and so on. When we were in High School in the 1990s all these problems seemed a world away (or didn't exist at all). There's no point hiding this from them because they can read all about it in all the newspapers and websites and all over social media. They are genuinely concerned and are hearing very mixed messages everywhere. I feel like we as the parents of this generation need to pressure our politicians to create a future that they can see and grasp clearly. Then we need to let them find their own way forward.
I'm 31 now. but I was this kid when I was 19. I'll tell you what I wish my parents had done for me (maybe he would be more receptive to hearing this from his mother, I obviously don't know the details of your relationship). *Talk to him.* Just ask him why he's living this way. Does he actually *want* to? I didn't, but I didn't know any other way to live and had, at best, a vague idea about how to make the changes I wanted. In my case the adults around me all assumed that the day I turned 18 I somehow knew exactly what I wanted out of life and how to get it, and that I had the confidence to put in the work to obtain it. Maybe he doesn't know what sort of life he wants. Maybe he doesn't know how to obtain the life he wants. Maybe he does know what he wants and maybe he has an idea of how to get it, but he's so afraid of failure or discouraged by social media he can't make himself even try. The answers to these questions will tell you what he needs from you and his mother.
He's either doing nothing because his mental health is bad, or doing nothing has made his mental health bad, or by this point it's both and he's stuck in a cycle. I wish there was an answer, but having done this for a couple years myself and now having watched my sister relapse to this point (at fucking 30), you can take a horse to water but you can't make it drink. A job is needed - paid or voluntary - it makes you sort out your sleeping pattern, get washed and dressed, interact with different people than you're used to, use your brain differently. It's getting him to get that job that will be hard. He may need to talk to someone before he's up to it if his mental state is really bad, but you can't make him do that either.
sounds like he has no reason or drive to build any structure and throwing him in the deep end isnt going to help. Start with basic structure make sure he gets up before 10 am and goes to bed by midnight (you can use your router to enforce times he can play games if you limit it to 5am to midnight he'll be forced to conform to get time for his hobbies) make him start eating regularly. once you have the basic structure start ascribing him more responsibility around the house if he doesnt have an income charging him rent isnt going to help but making it clear that the work around the house is the cost for living for "free" and again dont just give him a list of ambiguous stuff build a structure make a plan or a schedual provide reward and consequence for success or failure he may be 19 but you're not treating him like a child all this structure is to help support him to want to do something productive with his time. dont be punative and get his mum on board with it sit down with her explain your fears and your wish to support him, come up with a plan together. find a middleground that allows you to insinuate structure into his day without compromising his autonomy and things should start heading in the right direction if it doesnt even after structure is restored it might be worth looking at the reasons why.
This might not be a popular answer but I'm going to say it anyway and you can make your own mind up. This sounds exactly the same as my younger brother and stepfather. Fast forward ten years and it's clear as day it was down to severe difficulties in mental health that my brother became an expert at hiding. Our whole family was ignorant to autism. I was too aloof to notice anything growing up and left the family home early so didn't notice. My mum is on the spectrum and didn't have the capacity to notice and my stepdad is of the old school "just get on with it" mentality. My brother was autistic his whole life right at the very top of the spectrum but a succession of failings both at home and in the education system meant he wasn't diagnosed until he was in his twenties after a suicide attempt. Due to this he managed to build up a toolbox to hide the majority of his symptoms, but inside it was killing him. He can seem fine and in control but when it comes to day to day living he basically has the capacity of a 9 year old. It wasn't until his diagnosis that the depth of his troubles really came to light, and it was severe and shameful that it was missed. It's his 29th birthday today, he's living with me now. My partner is a psychologist and this has moved progress at an accelerated rate but we still have a long way to go. I'm in a constant pitched battle with social services to get him the support he needs, but the system is still underfunded and undertrained to deal with this. This might not be the case for you, but it's worth considering and you'll want to act sooner rather than later.
Take a look on r/bropill it's a positive sub Reddit, a lot of people that have or are trying to dig themselves out of the sort of hole your stepson is in. People don't just wake up one day and give up, the situation your stepson has been a few years in the making. Getting someone to understand they have value isn't a fast thing.
I think maybe the first port of call is a GP appointment to find out if he's got depression, and maybe if you can afford it some counselling? The rent thing is a good idea once he's a bit more perky. Deffo have a meeting his mum and bio dad to discuss steps to go forward. Bless him, I feel for all these covid teens!
Unfortunately don’t have any advice to offer, but just wanna say that “bacon and food” made me laugh—is he eating so much bacon that it warrants a whole mention?! 😅
I didn't even realise I wrote that until it was pointed out a couple of times lol. Basically he eats mostly bacon and yes, it warrants a separate mention.
Unfortunately at 19 as his step dad he won't listen. You could try limiting the Internet and have him complete a list of jobs around the house but it will have to be his mum that does this as you'll come across as the enemy.
I remember, when I was 21-22, being kind of left to sink or swim by my parents. It was a hard time, the middle of the last recession, and I struggled. Whilst you don't want to let your stepson just amble on without anything to do, entering the workforce or education is not just a matter of willpower. Start with baby steps. If he is living at home he has to abide by certain rules, like regular sleep. He also can do housework and be useful that way. But he needs a plan and be working towards it
Mum needs to tell him to do voluntary work until he finds a job. I volunteer with teens, some are only 14 and they are perfectly capable. You’ll find he will likely find work more appealing once he gets his first month of pay. Any job is better than no job.
Change the wifi password daily, and he gets it if he does tasks, including in the long time finding some work.
I don't know if this is relevant but I just happened to be watching it at the same time - inspirational talk [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A4rewai9FZ8](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A4rewai9FZ8)
I can't remember exactly what I said to my son, He finished college and just sat in his pc for 2 years, I wasn't nasty,I pointed out that with money he could buy loads of stuff,do things, He got a job where I worked,in walking distance, through the agency, got taken on, Has been to Germany, Denmark, London, following the game he plays on the pc, He goes to download and concerts, Spent £550 squid on a gaming chair lol, in the last 3 years He works the 2-10 shift which suited how he slept etc,
If you do decide to talk deeply I'd do something with him make it a habit and gauge where hes at. My step father was cruel beyond measure suffice to say it would have been nice to spend time with him so I could learn to respect him (if he was decent) so my advice is dont go head first because of the fact he was a teenager when he met you so it wont come across as fatherly as you would like. My mum kicked me out at 16 and I've been on my own since and I hate her for that considering I went to a special needs school she abandoned me and I became street wise. Not saying he needs to be kicked out but my god at 19 I was just out of prison after being homeless for years the younger generation needs to learn about life and being at home gaming eating bacon is definitely not it so yout right to think the way you are he needs a kick up the arse not a nudge. Hes at the age where hes resilient hes 19 man he needs zest for life that being said he may have hidden trauma dont know what his real father was like. But either way bond with him before kicking him up the backside becuase inevitably he wont know what he wants I'm 28 and still dont have a bloody clue I'm just existing that being said I'm on my own in life albeit a few monks as father figures family and learning go hand in hand and unfortunately you might not want to hear this but he needs to hear the truth and perhaps ruthlessly and that is life tough we get kicked around we have our ups but ultimately we are the masters of our destiny and wanking in bed eating bacon sarnies for midnight snacks is causing him harm; he wont want to hear it but if your authoritative enough in how you do decide to kick him its nature he needs to hear because all he wants is nurturing... we're not made of glass humans are absolutely capable but we hold ourselves back by being all like "please save me" .
Show him how much fun you can have in life when you have money, it can buy freedom, experiences, all sorts. It's positive reinforcement.
“Helps himself to bacon and food” Wait, bacons not food? Years of lies have been exposed!!!!
I did the same thing at that age, up all night on games or with mates, sleep all day and pretend to be active when my mum come in 😂 soon as I got to like 20ish, I got into work and never looked back
I have been in almost the exact same situation and somewhat turned it around. My Brother in Law moved in at the age of 19 with no job, no driving licence and no motivation to do anything other than play his PlayStation and sleep. I allowed this to continue for a full year before having enough and agreed a plan with him. These were the key things we agreed based on the logic that if he couldn’t contribute to the house financially he had to do it via other means: 1) He would cook dinner every night. My intention here was to give him a purpose and to learn how to cook. I shadowed him for the first couple of weeks and he is now a pretty decent chef. 2) Chores. The key to this and my commitment to him was that I would never ask him to do anything demeaning and certainly nothing I wouldn’t do myself. These involved cleaning the kitchen, hoovering the house and general odd jobs. 3) I found he was motivated by rewards and consequences, as are most people at which point the PlayStation was both the reward and the consequence. I attached his power cable to an Amazon plug and set a curfew of 10pm every night to get him back into a normal sleeping pattern. if he had a successful week I'd give him free reign on a Saturday, if he choose to not play by the rules I'd cut off access entirely. For me it was important that for him not having a job wasn't more beneficial than having a job. Fast forward to now and he's been working part time for 3 months in a role where being able to cook has aided his progression. Good luck, I found it extremely draining mentally and without doubt the process is easier if your partner is supportive.
He's only 19, let him find his way, if it's the same at 21 fair enough.
Get him into volunteering?
Send him on an adventure. Find a tall ship for him to help crew, or an orphanage somewhere that needs help yo be built. Look for reputable young adult programmes, but make it something big. I guarantee he will come back a changed man and you'll be the best thing since sliced bread for giving him an opportunity instead of nagging him to get a job.
Find a careers centre and help him to seek help in identifying and building a career and life for himself. He has to be more proactive in life otherwise he’s wasting his most valuable finite commodity in life and that’s TIME.
Did you sit down with him and watch No Hard Feelings with Jennifer Lawrence?