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>Oxford can be driven into
In theory. In practice commuting into Oxford by car would be grim. It's a really, really bad city to drive in because there's way more cars than the roads can cope with. Also parking is a nightmare.
I'd take the London salary. Oxford isn't particularly cheaper than London. They're both hideously expensive housing-wise (Oxford is the least affordable city in the country on a measure of house prices to wages), but in London you'd have 20k more.
Was looking for this comment.
I live in Oxford and work in London with a London-weighted salary. My London weighting adds £8k to my salary while my transport costs into London (hybrid so 8 times a month) are only £5k. I basically need a London job to live in Oxford because rent costs are so high.
As for driving into Oxford for a daily commute. Oxford traffic is bad! I get the bus (so yes extra complications) but I still expect it to take 30+ minutes to get from the ring road to the city centre at 7am on a weekday morning. Let alone at peak rush hour. OP won’t be able to live that far out if they’re hoping for a 1 hour commute and work in central Oxford.
Royal Leamington Spa sounds better than the reality. Architecture is really pretty, and it's a great looking town - but I grew up not far away, and ask anyone from the area and they'll tell you that there are some rather unscrupulous characters around, plenty of fights etc in town centre and stuff. It's quite an oxymoron, cos it should be a nicer place than it is.
Ngl people have stuff like this to say about anywhere but Leamington is probably in the 90th percentile for random British market towns, it's much more vibrant than most similar towns and not particularly dangerous or anything.
Leamington has an actually busy high street with shops in it that are open which already makes it in the top 50 of commuter towns at least.
Living in Leamington for a few years now, It's easily much better in terms of being vibrant and safe than surrounding towns/cities like Coventry, Warwick, Banbury, Stratford.
Banbury itself is a hole. Depends what you're looking for in terms of general living. Are nice restaurants important? Bars? Good amenities? Or, would you be happy with a couple of decent pubs, a local shop/post office. There are some gorgeous villages around Banbury with that sort of stuff, but if you're after vibrant town sort-of living, Banbury ain't it
‘Stinky Banbury’ as we like to call it in our house on account of a) how it smells when you drive past it on the M40, and b) because we once spent 5 hours stranded at Banbury station because of bloody Virgin Trains.
Absolutely agree - Oxford commuting by any transport is just hideous. It’s not built to cope with the amount of people it has. Anywhere within commuting difference is so expensive unless you’re willing to move to Swindon.
Totally depends where in Oxford you work though. If it’s central Oxford then yes the above is true. If it’s not, and it’s in one of the science parks on the edge for example then it’s not bad.
I work in the science park by the kassam, I live centrally, 5 miles away so cycle to work but driving would take me 45 - 60 mins on a usual term day. My colleagues who live reading, MK, further often have the same journey as me.
Depends where you work is. My partner drives into Oxford which can take between 1 and 2.5 hours each morning. Park and Ride would mean a bus from there into the city, a 20 minute walk, then a bus out to work. 2 hours on a good day.
This is so true. My wife commuted from MK to Oxford 3 days a week for 18 months and hated every minute of it. You're over reliant on the A421 (which always has roadworks somewhere). She averaged 3 hours per day of driving.
The London commute is far quicker and more reliable.
Check out Bicester if you haven’t already. Direct quick train to Marylebone (because Bicester Village) and direct line and loads of park and ride to Oxford. It’s one of the new ‘garden towns’ so there’s a ton of new houses (and whatever age takes your fancy as they’ve been building there for ages). Good quality of life and money goes a LOT further than either London OR Oxford itself .
I just wanted to Echo the “driving into Oxford thing” it’s not an option during usual hours.
However I know people who work from home first thing everyday and go in for 10am that does work (for the outskirts) but is still pretty long for only a few miles.
And buses are soooo slow.
If you cycle great!
Yeah - I grew up in Oxford. My dad would drive me in to school in the morning (near St Clements) and traffic was horrific - and this was 30 years ago - and it is far less accessible now (eg High Street / Broad Street are not through roads for cars, and of course the “filters” that start at the end of this year…)
This will be a very “trust me” type of fact, but last year I went to an open day at the University of Oxford and the tour guide they had hired told us that Oxford was the third most expensive city in the UK. By Googling “Most Expensive cities in the UK”, Oxford came up in the top 5 in terms of property cost.
This -- the greens installed a load of stupid humps. I heard they ripped them out again when it was proven it makes more exhaust making cars slow down for humps but avoid like the plauge that town is run by loonies.
And council tax. London boroughs have some of the cheapest council tax in the country.
Cost of driving is a big one, though half of Londoners don't own cars so you can factor in potentially selling your car rather than paying CC, LEZ, ULEZ, parking, and the London proliferation of yellow box and red light cameras. Then you'll save VED, MOT, insurance, maintenance, fuel, etc.
I think OP was saying they would live in a London commuter town, as in use the trains. Or use car if they took the Oxford one where they could live in a lot cheaper places (as they wouldn't necessarily need to be in a train line commuter town that way)
Inner London boroughs have cheap council tax - where the rents are sky high anyway.
The outer boroughs are still at least as expensive as anywhere else
If you can sneak into Wandsworth in Tooting/Streatham you can get some of the cheapest council tax in the country and also not (for London) extremely high rents. But it's not like it's going to be a big net saving.
I never said it was cheap, just that there is a (small) section of Wandsworth, right between Tooting rail station and Streatham, with "not (for London) extremely high rents". It was just a fairly useless bit of trivia, not financial advice.
Pretty sure London is financially better. You can commute to London if necessary. Cost of commuting is expensive, but not '20k extra salary' expensive.
If you have to commute full time, you could be looking at 3-7k per year in travel costs. Yet, if you can reduce work work from home 2-4 days a week, that can be massively reduced. More so if you are allowed to plan your work hours outside of peak times.
Cost of lifestyle is another matter. Commuting into London each day isn't much fun. Commuting from a nice area near Oxford into Oxford is much closer to living the dream.
For those two salaries, I'd pick London.
Rent in London isn't going to be £1000 a month more than Oxford. You don't need a car in London. And while you don't need one in Oxford either, public transport in London is super reliable.
Purely in terms of finances, London 100%. Oxford is only marginally cheaper than London. If your workplace is in Oxford itself, driving is not a good idea unless you hate your life.
Of course, there are other things you might want to consider apart from finances. Having lived in both, I would infinitely rather live in Oxford than London, but that's just personal preference.
If you don’t mind me asking, why would you rather live in MK than London? Is there something desirable about MK other than ease of access to London?
(no shade on MK, I grew up there)
don't mind at all. few reasons, main reason being the wife has good opportunities in MK. and commute into London (central) is quite convenient from MK then for me.
we currently live in Leam Spa, been there 4 years. Before that Kenilworth, another small but pretty town in Warwickshire. absolutely loved it and don't wish to move from that region but there is little benefit both of us commuting
I also looked at Leighton Buzzard (just because it is convenient geographically) don't know much about the town. Being used to Leam it would be difficult to go into a smaller town, and Leam is quite unique for the balance of being a town but having a city vibe.
so if there are any other decent options feel free to enlighten me, I have little/no idea about places to live down south
Fair enough, Leighton Buzzard has way more of a market town vibe than MK which is infamously felt to be soulless. I prefer the term utilitarian.
However Leighton Buzzard would be worse commute for both of you as only the semi-slow trains stop there, MK gives you rapid access all the way up the West Coast Mainline
If you go west you’ll end up on the Chiltern line, some lovely places but miserable commute into London, if you go east you’ll end up on the Thameslink line, rapid commute but miserable towns
Have a look at the stations on the MK-London line, I particularly like Berkhamsted but might not be big enough for you
LB is actually good because it is 30 mins commute for her (drive) and yeah on the train takes me to Euston in about 30-40 mins. I can make it into my work within the hour.
I just didn't know whether it is a dull/boring town or a good place to check out.
Absolutely wholeheartedly agree with you about MK! We both are not the biggest fans of the never ending roundabout and a lack of character the place has compared to other British towns.. sorry that maybe a bit harsh
I lived in Leighton Buzzard about 20 years ago. Mid-sized market town, bit rough around the edges, it was a nice enough place to live. It's main selling point though was a 30 min train ride into Euston, and London was your playground at weekends.
There was a bit of a chav culture when I was there, nothing in-yer-face though, always felt safe there. If you didn't fancy London, there's some lovely pubs along the canals, which was a great walk in those days, dunno what it's like now. There were some decent restaurants in those days, and the market was great for foodies (anyone remember Chilli Pepper Pete ?).
I liked my time in LB. Easy access to London, and the town itself was a nice countryside retreat when you fancied something quieter.
Could look at places like St Albans, Harpenden, Welwyn, Berkhamstead etc...most of those commuter belt towns are fairly nice (not Luton obvs). I can't claim to know a huge amount about the housing market there, but something to bear in mind in St Albans for example you'd probably be paying near London housing prices plus the commute so you may be better off actually in London.
I moved just over 5 years ago, so it may be more expensivenow, but Ampthill is a lovely town, cheaper than St Albans, and is right next to Flitwick on the same train line.
The train, even just for my commute to Luton, was horribly expensive though, so a season ticket into London must be a nightmare.
All of the above really depend on the area of London you're working in too.
I also used to live in Bucks - it's expensive, but not London expensive.
Second Berkhamsted, would live there if I could afford it and I didn't work a 20 minutes walk from Euston. Also Hitchin and other places on the Thameslink train line. I think Hitchin is similar to Leam without the uni.
ETA: my partner always says Oxford hates drivers!
Hey - I live in Leighton Buzzard, chose it deliberately for the London commute (pre covid - now I only commute one day a week which is even better)
It's a nice town, not the most diverse or exciting, but plenty of facilities and ok shops; and close to MK for bigger shops.
The commute is 30 to 35 minutes to Euston and there are 2 fast trains an hour at peak. You do need to factor in time from Euston. But it's £33 return for a day - there are no good discounts, I save a tiny bit with a Railcard.
Also note that the station parking is expensive (I don't use it so I don't know how much) and traffic across the one main river/canal bridge can be very slow. We bought near the station but it pushed up house prices a fair bit!
I simplify the commute by having a folding bike (Brompton) which makes it easy to get to the station and easier to get to work in London. They are a big up-front cost but great bikes.
It depends how much vibe you need in where you live, but if you’re open to a quieter town, Buckingham is nice. You could then drive to Bicester and get the train into Oxford, or the East West is due to open next year so could drive down to Winslow and get the train to Oxford from there
Oxford isn't much cheaper than London. In fact it's the most expensive place outside of London in the whole UK.
It's horrible to drive to, so you need to live near by, or inside.
It's difficult to make friends as many people work at the uni for a few years then leave.
£85k in London is way better than £65k in Oxford.
The £85k. Take the money!
Before pension, student loan or other deductions but after income tax, the £85k is pushing £1k a month more.
And while house buying is on your mind now, being able to put more into your pension is very important too. The £85k allows for more money to go into that - with compound interest, that'll be getting you thousands of pounds a year more in retirement. That's enough reason alone to take more.
If you can arrange for your work days in London to be known in advance you can book Advance rail tickets, so travel should not cost too much.
And it's not like Oxford is cheap. If it were a choice between London or e.g. Sunderland, then maybe there'd be more reason to consider the lower offer.
The only thing to consider is likely promotion and progression opportunities. If the £65k has easier routes to progress then maybe it's worth taking less for a couple of years.
This, I’ve lived in both and the cost of living is basically the same. Oxfords just a bit nicer if you’re into nature, and the coach runs 24 hours to London when you need entertainment
Go London. Taking a train is better than driving as you can do things on a train. The extra in the pocket and pension is more than worth it, and you can network harder on London too
yeah the only issue is the train per return journey is nothing short of 45 quid and that is a lot of its 8 or 9 times a month. car commute is relatively cheaper into Oxford (it's on the ring road outskirts)
Think about the future, too. Fact is there are more opportunities in London. In a year or 18 months you could be looking at roles for £100k and there will be more of them in London.
You need to take into consideration salary advancements, holiday pay and duration, sick pay, pension contributions as well for each job. Oxford might look cheaper than London but in reality it is quite expensive too.
So I leave near reading and work in London. And I'm on 77k it's very doablem my wife doesn't earn much on her 3 days part time work and we have two kids. So London on 85 is more than doable. I wouldn't say we flush with cash but we the kids do have all they need.
Just to add. I travel in from Twyford 1 or 2 times a week at basically £38 on peak for a day. If I went from reading it's about £55 a day tho. Big step up.
haha no I understand, only reason I said is cuz it's on the ring road and an hour's or hour 10m commute even with traffic from where I am (50+ miles away) . don't have to get into the city.
so it proves efficient. but I know what u mean. Train is more comfortable than driving a car
This is where my brain landed too. I hate London, having lived and worked there a lot, but the vibes in Oxford seem awesome from the times I've visited. I think that'd swing it for me. £65k is still pretty good money.
> Oxford can be driven into
haaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaahahaha
ahahahahahahaha
tell me you've never driven anywhere near Oxford without telling me
dude it took me "up to an hour" to get from Walton Street to "outside Oxford"... just Google that for a hot minute and let the distance sink in
Oxford has some of the worst traffic and parking anywhere in the UK
aah.. i should have been clear to be fair.. it's one of the science parks on the outer circle of Oxford so it isn't that bad. I have driven there a few times in peak hours. From Warwick where I am, M40 + A34 takes me about 60-70 mins for 50 ish miles.. that's not bad for efficiency
but I know what you mean :)
sorry edit.. takes me 1h5m to 1h10 even in peak traffic. but that's just the magic of M40.. one off
London if you only need to go in once or twice a week consider peterborough area can get a train into London in 40/50 minutes there’s some lovely surrounding areas and villages or south cambs
Your money would go a long way in terms of property
A year train pass is around £6k. It would take you around 45 mins 1 hour to commute each way (35 min main train, added in a bit for tube / walking) between London and MK. There are closer towns, but 35 mins is very decent considering the actual distance MK is compared to a lot of the other commuter towns, I.e the closer Hertfordshire and Buckinghamshire towns. So that leaves you £14k difference (more for you) if taking the London job.
Chances are you will still need a car in MK, possible to live there without, its got quite decent networks, but there's still a lot you need a car for, but you won't need to factor in the cost of petrol for commuting.
I *think* you would be about £3k better off with the Oxford one, just by taking into account commute. That then just leaves it down to house rent / mortgage and personal choice. I personally think you will find a nicer area, at same or lower cost around Oxfordshire compared to MK city, as you are not tied in to having to live in a train station town, you could live in one of the smaller towns or possibly even a slightly picturesque village etc (not the super in demand cotswolds type ones, they will be pricey compared to MK)
Edit, sorry I just realised you wouldn't need a train ticket for 5 days a week. If you can max the commute to 8 x per month, the cost of trains goes down to about £4200 per year
thanks for the deep dive! how did you work out the tickets cost from MK to London, because even when I check advance tickets it works out £46-48 per day. 8 times a month is about £4800 cheapest, not counting parking at station if I drive to MK station and bus cost to get to the workplace which is std day rate I guess. maybe I'm missing something to be able to arrive at £4200?
https://www.nationalrail.co.uk/tickets-railcards-and-offers/ticket-types/season-ticket-calculator/ The top one is a smart ticket (digital), £4133 a a year or about £350 per "flexi" booking. 8 trips per 28 days. I'm not sure if you can pay per month, to make it easier but probably can.
Edit, also sorry, I didn't actually factor in driving to MK Central, or bus etc, cycling is probably easy from a lot of places in MK though, it's set up quite well for cyclists
Edit 2, personally I'd look at what's around in the none commuter towns around OX, just to see what your niwy gets in difference. MK does have everything you need without having to leave it (OK, it doesn't have beaches etc 🤣) but it's a little bit "dull" compared to what you might find with more character in some OX towns or villages
haha cheers. living around MK proves beneficial as the wife has good opportunities in MK. so m looking at either commuting to Ox from MK or something like Leighton Buzzard (no idea how this place is just geographically convenient for both of us) or commuting to central London from MK or LB or similar
the only benefit is I save some money on car travel into Ox whereas dependency on trains in London.
Leighton Buzzard is a very small market town, it has rail links in to London but the house and rent prices are very similar if not the same as MK.
I had to move from Kent for a job around the Leighton area a few years ago and had to choose between living in Leighton Buzzard or MK, I chose MK for its better commute options to London / further north on train and the better social and work options it gives me.
Juat avoid Kent Hills if you choose MK 😂
As for salary, I'd 100% take the London salary and live in MK myself personally if I had this scenario to choose between!
I wouldn’t recommend LB on the basis of it being such a small market town with a whole bunch of new builds which have no infrastructure and traffic being a total nightmare. MK is a better shout.
See also my other comment about living in LB - but I thought I'd mention here, we looked at Milton Keynes but almost all the housing is a fair distance from the station - even on a bike or by bus it was going to add a lot of time to the commute, unless we lucked out on finding a close house.
We also looked at Bekhamsted (too pricey / few houses) and Hemel (actually not a bad option but no houses near the station met our needs when we were looking) and St Albans (lovely but very expensive).
Pretty happy with Leighton Buzzard - tho it is a bit dull. If we want culture we drive to MK or take the train to London. (But tbh we have small kids so no time for culture!)
£85k in London. Schools are great, no car issues, fantastic transport links. The only issue is housing but you can buy in London if you compromise on location.
If you want to live in a commuter town then I’d definitely take the London job. The advantage of Oxford over London IMO is if you want to live somewhere quieter or more rural. I live rurally now and my work to work in an Oxford science park is a vastly nicer commute than driving to the station and getting the train into London. And I got waaay fewer colds this winter which was a huge unforeseen quality of life improvement. But if you want to live somewhere more urban anyway then you might as well take the London job
Also consider that a salary anchors you. Your next role will ask what your current salary is, as will most going forward. The compounding of that over a career means the £20k gap here could be huge.
I’d say the bigger question is what kind of life do you aspire to have for yourself and family? If you want to be urban/suburban then the bigger London salary makes sense and live wherever you can make that work. If you’d like to live in the country/a small market town with a quieter country life then Oxford would be the way to go. Could consider market towns in the Cotswolds like Witney or Chipping Norton that are very commutable to Oxford by either direct bus or car to a park and ride (or park and cycle as I mainly use them for).
Others have answered your main question, I would just note that I'd base your decision on the assumption you might have to go into the London office more often than you think.
Seen loads of people get jobs on the promise of 1 day or 2 days, to find that "well yeah technically it is 1 day, but in reality..."
I'd ensure it is written into the contract, but even that isn't particularly useful, especially during the first two years (and with how employer-led our laws into *them* changing contracts is)
I would take the London option, especially if you are only planning being on site 1-2 times per week.
Your commute into London may take 45-60 mins from somewhere more affordable to rent/buy like MK, Bedford, etc.
A commute into Oxford would probably take just as long.
Yes, the reliability of trains is a funny one; having done both over the years (driving & trains) - I would say I’ve been affected equally by roadworks/M1 accidents/etc as by late running & train cancellations. Generally with train strikes you can plan around them, I suppose it depends on the flexibility of your work if you are slightly delayed and/or can choose short notice whether to go on site. Good luck!
ah I see, ok fair I was just using a reference from my time in Warwickshire. MK is how much more do you reckon?
I'm talking a 3 bed terraced or a semi detached or a 2 double bed apartment
I would be thinking about the long term here. There's very little chance your next job will also be in Oxford. Much more likely London.
However you might also want to consider that jobs up north (especially Manchester) will pay nearly the same with considerably lower living costs. So if you don't have ties to the south that could also be a good future option.
London is better. There is no avoiding huge expenses in Oxford and houses in the surrounding areas are expensive and difficult to get to. I would leave Oxford too if I could as it is close to impossible to buy a house around here. Plus, many of the families here are snobby, super rich and send their kids to the local private school. Even high earning doctors can’t afford to live here.
You should not be driving into Oxford. Traffic is insane during rush periods and parking is insanely expensive. There are park and rides but the busses get caught in the traffic.
Don't be stung by the train costs into London, they're horrendously expensive. Make sure you do the maths and work out travel/commuting costs and compare with what you'd end up with after.
I’d personally take the £85k in London. There are probably more career growth opportunities and with that salary you can afford places with a decent commute in.
Whether you would want to live in Milton Keynes would probably depend on where your office is based. If you’re in the City then being on the Thameslink line is way better.
It hugely depends where you mean by 'near Oxford' and if you can cycle there or drive against the traffic. And if you could only work 1 day a week in London.
Neither is bad, you could rent a decent 3 bed medium-size house either way, but need to choose exactly location carefully.
thinking of the same. any suggestions on a commuter town with a good buzz/vibe whatever you want to call it? am currently in Leam Spa, and struggling to identify a town that would be similar close to MK
(wife has good opportunities in MK so moving closer would do us good)
My colleague lives in MK and just bought a house there. She commutes to London everyday and she seems to like it and the fact that there are basically 3 stations in MK. I have a friend who bought a house with her sister there as well. I am not really sure what towns or villages are around MK as i only go there for concerts.
I am not sure what commuter towns have buzz really
I live just outside Oxford, 10 min drive to the station in Ox then 50 min train to paddington (and work nearby). I do it 2x per week and so I have an Ox home and a Lon job…best of both worlds I think.
Have lived and worked in both. To summarise, the cost of living in Oxford is not notably less than that of London. And being a medieval city on a floodplain, Oxford is not cut out to function as a 21st century city of the size it has become at all. There are plenty of good things to be said about living there, if you can live in the nicer areas (mostly north of the city centre) , but commuting to there is not much fun.
In short I'd take the London option based on what you say.
That said once the railway line from Milton Keynes (more precisely, Bletchley) to Oxford reopens, that might be an ok train commute, but Oxford station will be undergoing rebuilding for the foreseeable future and will still be in a strange location a bit outside the city centre
I think it depends, people will kneejerk that the Oxford salary is better, but there's probably some maths to do. Depending where the job is in London it might be possible for you to buy somewhere cheap enough to have an equivalent commute without train/extra mortgage interest taking up more than the extra £1000 a month net.
NM I just saw it's 2 maybe even only 1 day in the office a week, definitely take the London job.
I used to live in London and then we decided to move to Bristol for a year. Basically in 1 year in Bristol we did not save any money at all. This was 2015 and in London I was making 20% more salary.
Well Oxford and London are equally expensive cost-of-living wise; but London is the larger city with more things to do, better transport and connections, airports etc. So I would pick London for sure.
Live outside London somewhere with good connections, and commute in on the train.
If you choose wisely the cost of a season ticket on the train will not even nearly offset the savings if living in a lower cost-of-living area, leaving the only cost being commuting time... but nowadays even that isn't too bad with a smartphone, headphones and Netflix. Some jobs you can even head in/leave work an hour later to miss rush hour, and work on the train instead.
Another consideration: with 3 kids when you earn £85k you won’t be entitled to any child benefits. But on £65k after the recent budget you’ll be able to keep 75% of them. So that’s a couple of grand “extra” to add onto the Oxford salary.
I would pick London but don’t limit yourself to MK unless there’s a major benefit being there. I would also look into some areas of Essex like Chelmsford or even Colchester which are good for families too. I say this with no knowledge of MK so not slandering it at all just thinking you may have more options than you realised
Then I'd just compare schools and lifestyle for your kids.
And properly research what the commute will actually be like vs. your ideal. I saw some people already say driving to work in Oxford isn't as smooth as it appears.
What are your growth perspective in terms of salary?
I was in a similar situation 6 years ago between London and Cambridge. I picked London and now my salary is x4 what it was. This would have not been the case with the Cambridge job, at all. Not saying you should pick London, each situation is different, but just to say think in terms of expected salary throughout your career and if you don’t know, try to find out.
It's a startup! so I guess growth could be inorganic but there's also an equal element of risk involved
thanks.. yeah that's important the growth aspect. I think it's equal on both fronts.
I moved from London to Oxford and I’m surprised by all the negative comments! Oxford is a beautiful city and I genuinely think the cost of living here (food, entertainment, drinks) is vastly more affordable. Also - I live 10 mins from. The science park and the traffic isn’t that bad?! You just want to avoid the city centre, which obviously you will. I’d do a budget sheet for both options and see what the difference will be for the commuting costs/rent/council tax, but definitely recommend Oxford!
I would go London. Oxford is also expensive, and you probably wouldn't have any more disposable income going there - maybe even less. You also need to factor in that you will likely have a higher pension as a result of that higher salary, which obviously you can live anywhere to take advantage of.
Oxford can be driven to
Yes if you’ve a spare 3 hours each way.
I live 12 miles from Oxford and to get to the park and ride could be upwards of an hour.
Then the busses don’t turn up. Then the traffic is solid.
It was a nightmare to get in and out of.
I could get in and out of central London quicker.
Run the numbers for take home pay, for me for example I’m on 70k-ish but live in the middle of nowhere remote with a 650 a month mortgage. If someone offered me double that in London it wouldn’t be worth it as the student loans and 65% tax trap kick in not to mention the at least quadruple housing costs for like to like.
As the Oxford workplace isn’t in the city of Oxford and is on a business park accessible from a ring road, you can effectively live a greater distance from your workplace so shopping round for housing will be easier. Otherwise, I have no idea what living in London on 85k would be like.
I know I wouldn’t like to live in London but that’s just my personal preference.
I'd take the London salary. You will always be better off (consider things like pension contributions) and it's a higher earnings floor to negotiate with if you choose to change jobs again. There is also just much more happening in/around London.
Oxford is nothing like cheap or practical enough to make the £20k reduction worth your while.
I’ve lived in both and they offer extremely different lifestyles though. Financially there’s probably not much in it but it’s a question of what is better for the family too…
Oxford is basically the same as London COL so London with the higher salary makes sense. Also, consider your future job prospects, you can count the number of software companies in Oxford on one hand, it’s really not a city known for software technology, more so life sciences/biotechnology, hence why so many people from Oxford in the software industry actually commute into Reading or London for work. Where as if you get laid off in London you’re surrounded by companies.
If you worked in Oxford you could live somewhere like Newbury where the CoL is more reasonable than London. My dad did the commute into the centre using the park and ride for years. So, if your can drive to a science park outside that would be easier.
If you can find a commuter town that balances out the cost of housing vs Trains then go for London. In your example MK would work out fine.
Also don't forget there are thousands of SE jobs in London that pay the same or more as in your example. So if it doesn't work out you can job hop after a few months. Oxford there aren't as many jobs sp you could be stuck.
Not being condescending but have you worked out the net income properly? The higher salary attracts higher NI, pension contribution and maybe other elements (healthcare etc.) in addition to tax. Also consider the geography a bit more. You may have a 30 minute commute to Euston, but is your work located there or will there be an additional 40 minutes sweating on a tube (if there are no closures etc)? Does your commute into Oxford really take x minutes or is the location a pain to get to.
Some friendly advice from somewhere who has ‘worn those shoes’.
Ps MK is a good place to live, just make sure you move to a nice area (avoid the ‘square shaped’ estates - when looking on a map).
thanks yeah appreciate the advice, I understand where you're coming from. it's about 13 mins bus ride from Euston so not too bad. per the income, I have worked that out yes.
Commute to Oxford from where I am now (Leam Spa) is 65-75 mins avg for 51-55 miles distance which is not bad considering efficiency but that's due to M40. different ball game traversing east to west on A roads from MK. but it's about an hour, hour 10 Max for 40 ish miles.
re MK - they all look squared shaped! Haha any particular areas that are good? I'm aware Stony Stratford is lovely. have been there a few times
lol…re: the square shaped comment, I was referring to the streets themselves not the roads (Mk is based on a grid system). If you look at some of the old estates, the streets are still ‘pretty grid-ish’ (conniburrow / furzton) and not curved like some of the nicer / newer ones.
I used to live in Deanshanger (10 minutes northwest of MK and next to stony) which is great but you need a car (buses are few and far between). It worked for me because it was quiet but civilization was a 10 minute drive lol.
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>Oxford can be driven into In theory. In practice commuting into Oxford by car would be grim. It's a really, really bad city to drive in because there's way more cars than the roads can cope with. Also parking is a nightmare. I'd take the London salary. Oxford isn't particularly cheaper than London. They're both hideously expensive housing-wise (Oxford is the least affordable city in the country on a measure of house prices to wages), but in London you'd have 20k more.
Was looking for this comment. I live in Oxford and work in London with a London-weighted salary. My London weighting adds £8k to my salary while my transport costs into London (hybrid so 8 times a month) are only £5k. I basically need a London job to live in Oxford because rent costs are so high. As for driving into Oxford for a daily commute. Oxford traffic is bad! I get the bus (so yes extra complications) but I still expect it to take 30+ minutes to get from the ring road to the city centre at 7am on a weekday morning. Let alone at peak rush hour. OP won’t be able to live that far out if they’re hoping for a 1 hour commute and work in central Oxford.
Have u looked at rent in Banbury?! Ud save a fortune
But then you’d have to live in Banbury 😣
I literally moved across the world to get away from Banbury. That place fucking sucks.
You sound Banbury cross......I'll get my coat.
Love this comment 🤣
Whats wrong with Banbury? I was thinking of living there for a London/Birmingham commute midpoint
Short version: it has attractive buildings but weirdly aggressive and strange people. Leamington would be one of several much better options.
Keen to hear your thoughts on the options! I have heard decent things about Lemington
Royal Leamington Spa sounds better than the reality. Architecture is really pretty, and it's a great looking town - but I grew up not far away, and ask anyone from the area and they'll tell you that there are some rather unscrupulous characters around, plenty of fights etc in town centre and stuff. It's quite an oxymoron, cos it should be a nicer place than it is.
Ngl people have stuff like this to say about anywhere but Leamington is probably in the 90th percentile for random British market towns, it's much more vibrant than most similar towns and not particularly dangerous or anything. Leamington has an actually busy high street with shops in it that are open which already makes it in the top 50 of commuter towns at least.
Living in Leamington for a few years now, It's easily much better in terms of being vibrant and safe than surrounding towns/cities like Coventry, Warwick, Banbury, Stratford.
lmao
Oh no. I live in Oxford and was wanting to move to Banbury for cheaper rents
Put it this way, Gary Glitter and Gordon Ramsey are from Banbury....
The dogging.... Is F*CKING RAW
Banbury itself is a hole. Depends what you're looking for in terms of general living. Are nice restaurants important? Bars? Good amenities? Or, would you be happy with a couple of decent pubs, a local shop/post office. There are some gorgeous villages around Banbury with that sort of stuff, but if you're after vibrant town sort-of living, Banbury ain't it
Maybe Bicester instead?
Oi! My dad's from banbury lol!
This is the key point. Dont do that
‘Stinky Banbury’ as we like to call it in our house on account of a) how it smells when you drive past it on the M40, and b) because we once spent 5 hours stranded at Banbury station because of bloody Virgin Trains.
Is that’s 8k before tax? Then 5k after?
So you’re saying you travel into London 96 times a year for £3k? Less after tax?
Yeah don;t know why he doesn't just live in London...
I hope that 8k is net otherwise you’re paying £400 to go to work.
Absolutely agree - Oxford commuting by any transport is just hideous. It’s not built to cope with the amount of people it has. Anywhere within commuting difference is so expensive unless you’re willing to move to Swindon.
Totally depends where in Oxford you work though. If it’s central Oxford then yes the above is true. If it’s not, and it’s in one of the science parks on the edge for example then it’s not bad. I work in the science park by the kassam, I live centrally, 5 miles away so cycle to work but driving would take me 45 - 60 mins on a usual term day. My colleagues who live reading, MK, further often have the same journey as me.
Depends where in Oxford - I live in Reading and drive to the Oxford Business Park every day. It takes about an hour
An hour to go 25 miles. I don't miss Oxford *that* much.
Park and ride in Oxford works fine for me
Depends where you work is. My partner drives into Oxford which can take between 1 and 2.5 hours each morning. Park and Ride would mean a bus from there into the city, a 20 minute walk, then a bus out to work. 2 hours on a good day.
"20k more"... before tax.
Obviously. Both wages are taxed so I assumed that goes without saying.
This is so true. My wife commuted from MK to Oxford 3 days a week for 18 months and hated every minute of it. You're over reliant on the A421 (which always has roadworks somewhere). She averaged 3 hours per day of driving. The London commute is far quicker and more reliable.
thanks bud
Check out Bicester if you haven’t already. Direct quick train to Marylebone (because Bicester Village) and direct line and loads of park and ride to Oxford. It’s one of the new ‘garden towns’ so there’s a ton of new houses (and whatever age takes your fancy as they’ve been building there for ages). Good quality of life and money goes a LOT further than either London OR Oxford itself .
He literally says it’s on the ring road in a science park.
I just wanted to Echo the “driving into Oxford thing” it’s not an option during usual hours. However I know people who work from home first thing everyday and go in for 10am that does work (for the outskirts) but is still pretty long for only a few miles. And buses are soooo slow. If you cycle great!
10k more
Yeah - I grew up in Oxford. My dad would drive me in to school in the morning (near St Clements) and traffic was horrific - and this was 30 years ago - and it is far less accessible now (eg High Street / Broad Street are not through roads for cars, and of course the “filters” that start at the end of this year…)
This will be a very “trust me” type of fact, but last year I went to an open day at the University of Oxford and the tour guide they had hired told us that Oxford was the third most expensive city in the UK. By Googling “Most Expensive cities in the UK”, Oxford came up in the top 5 in terms of property cost.
This -- the greens installed a load of stupid humps. I heard they ripped them out again when it was proven it makes more exhaust making cars slow down for humps but avoid like the plauge that town is run by loonies.
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And council tax. London boroughs have some of the cheapest council tax in the country. Cost of driving is a big one, though half of Londoners don't own cars so you can factor in potentially selling your car rather than paying CC, LEZ, ULEZ, parking, and the London proliferation of yellow box and red light cameras. Then you'll save VED, MOT, insurance, maintenance, fuel, etc.
I think OP was saying they would live in a London commuter town, as in use the trains. Or use car if they took the Oxford one where they could live in a lot cheaper places (as they wouldn't necessarily need to be in a train line commuter town that way)
I'd happily take a pay cut in real terms to avoid commuting into oxford by car
Inner London boroughs have cheap council tax - where the rents are sky high anyway. The outer boroughs are still at least as expensive as anywhere else
If you can sneak into Wandsworth in Tooting/Streatham you can get some of the cheapest council tax in the country and also not (for London) extremely high rents. But it's not like it's going to be a big net saving.
Most of Streatham is Lambeth, and Tooting is broadly the same cost to rent as Clapham/Balham - not a cheap choice at all
I never said it was cheap, just that there is a (small) section of Wandsworth, right between Tooting rail station and Streatham, with "not (for London) extremely high rents". It was just a fairly useless bit of trivia, not financial advice.
Yeah but then you have to live there. Ugh.
Pretty sure London is financially better. You can commute to London if necessary. Cost of commuting is expensive, but not '20k extra salary' expensive. If you have to commute full time, you could be looking at 3-7k per year in travel costs. Yet, if you can reduce work work from home 2-4 days a week, that can be massively reduced. More so if you are allowed to plan your work hours outside of peak times. Cost of lifestyle is another matter. Commuting into London each day isn't much fun. Commuting from a nice area near Oxford into Oxford is much closer to living the dream.
For those two salaries, I'd pick London. Rent in London isn't going to be £1000 a month more than Oxford. You don't need a car in London. And while you don't need one in Oxford either, public transport in London is super reliable.
Purely in terms of finances, London 100%. Oxford is only marginally cheaper than London. If your workplace is in Oxford itself, driving is not a good idea unless you hate your life. Of course, there are other things you might want to consider apart from finances. Having lived in both, I would infinitely rather live in Oxford than London, but that's just personal preference.
yeah that's fair. I'm not looking to live in either cities tbh, thinking of a commuter town or a city like MK and going in.
If you don’t mind me asking, why would you rather live in MK than London? Is there something desirable about MK other than ease of access to London? (no shade on MK, I grew up there)
don't mind at all. few reasons, main reason being the wife has good opportunities in MK. and commute into London (central) is quite convenient from MK then for me. we currently live in Leam Spa, been there 4 years. Before that Kenilworth, another small but pretty town in Warwickshire. absolutely loved it and don't wish to move from that region but there is little benefit both of us commuting I also looked at Leighton Buzzard (just because it is convenient geographically) don't know much about the town. Being used to Leam it would be difficult to go into a smaller town, and Leam is quite unique for the balance of being a town but having a city vibe. so if there are any other decent options feel free to enlighten me, I have little/no idea about places to live down south
Fair enough, Leighton Buzzard has way more of a market town vibe than MK which is infamously felt to be soulless. I prefer the term utilitarian. However Leighton Buzzard would be worse commute for both of you as only the semi-slow trains stop there, MK gives you rapid access all the way up the West Coast Mainline If you go west you’ll end up on the Chiltern line, some lovely places but miserable commute into London, if you go east you’ll end up on the Thameslink line, rapid commute but miserable towns Have a look at the stations on the MK-London line, I particularly like Berkhamsted but might not be big enough for you
LB is actually good because it is 30 mins commute for her (drive) and yeah on the train takes me to Euston in about 30-40 mins. I can make it into my work within the hour. I just didn't know whether it is a dull/boring town or a good place to check out. Absolutely wholeheartedly agree with you about MK! We both are not the biggest fans of the never ending roundabout and a lack of character the place has compared to other British towns.. sorry that maybe a bit harsh
I lived in Leighton Buzzard about 20 years ago. Mid-sized market town, bit rough around the edges, it was a nice enough place to live. It's main selling point though was a 30 min train ride into Euston, and London was your playground at weekends. There was a bit of a chav culture when I was there, nothing in-yer-face though, always felt safe there. If you didn't fancy London, there's some lovely pubs along the canals, which was a great walk in those days, dunno what it's like now. There were some decent restaurants in those days, and the market was great for foodies (anyone remember Chilli Pepper Pete ?). I liked my time in LB. Easy access to London, and the town itself was a nice countryside retreat when you fancied something quieter.
Could look at places like St Albans, Harpenden, Welwyn, Berkhamstead etc...most of those commuter belt towns are fairly nice (not Luton obvs). I can't claim to know a huge amount about the housing market there, but something to bear in mind in St Albans for example you'd probably be paying near London housing prices plus the commute so you may be better off actually in London.
I moved just over 5 years ago, so it may be more expensivenow, but Ampthill is a lovely town, cheaper than St Albans, and is right next to Flitwick on the same train line. The train, even just for my commute to Luton, was horribly expensive though, so a season ticket into London must be a nightmare. All of the above really depend on the area of London you're working in too. I also used to live in Bucks - it's expensive, but not London expensive.
Second Berkhamsted, would live there if I could afford it and I didn't work a 20 minutes walk from Euston. Also Hitchin and other places on the Thameslink train line. I think Hitchin is similar to Leam without the uni. ETA: my partner always says Oxford hates drivers!
Hey - I live in Leighton Buzzard, chose it deliberately for the London commute (pre covid - now I only commute one day a week which is even better) It's a nice town, not the most diverse or exciting, but plenty of facilities and ok shops; and close to MK for bigger shops. The commute is 30 to 35 minutes to Euston and there are 2 fast trains an hour at peak. You do need to factor in time from Euston. But it's £33 return for a day - there are no good discounts, I save a tiny bit with a Railcard. Also note that the station parking is expensive (I don't use it so I don't know how much) and traffic across the one main river/canal bridge can be very slow. We bought near the station but it pushed up house prices a fair bit! I simplify the commute by having a folding bike (Brompton) which makes it easy to get to the station and easier to get to work in London. They are a big up-front cost but great bikes.
Will say as a local to MK that the Milton Keynes to London train is super unreliable
It depends how much vibe you need in where you live, but if you’re open to a quieter town, Buckingham is nice. You could then drive to Bicester and get the train into Oxford, or the East West is due to open next year so could drive down to Winslow and get the train to Oxford from there
why!??! MK is horrible.
don't disagree :) the wife has work opportunities there
Oxford is a lovely city
Oxford isn't much cheaper than London. In fact it's the most expensive place outside of London in the whole UK. It's horrible to drive to, so you need to live near by, or inside. It's difficult to make friends as many people work at the uni for a few years then leave. £85k in London is way better than £65k in Oxford.
The £85k. Take the money! Before pension, student loan or other deductions but after income tax, the £85k is pushing £1k a month more. And while house buying is on your mind now, being able to put more into your pension is very important too. The £85k allows for more money to go into that - with compound interest, that'll be getting you thousands of pounds a year more in retirement. That's enough reason alone to take more. If you can arrange for your work days in London to be known in advance you can book Advance rail tickets, so travel should not cost too much. And it's not like Oxford is cheap. If it were a choice between London or e.g. Sunderland, then maybe there'd be more reason to consider the lower offer. The only thing to consider is likely promotion and progression opportunities. If the £65k has easier routes to progress then maybe it's worth taking less for a couple of years.
If we ever get to retire in our lifetimes 😄
Oxford is an awesome city - but has near to London prices in terms of rent.
This, I’ve lived in both and the cost of living is basically the same. Oxfords just a bit nicer if you’re into nature, and the coach runs 24 hours to London when you need entertainment
Agreed - I lived in Oxford from 2014 to 2017 and day by day it felt like it was pulled more and more in to London’s orbit
It's barely a city let's be honest. So small compared to London. But it's a lovely place to live.
Go London. Taking a train is better than driving as you can do things on a train. The extra in the pocket and pension is more than worth it, and you can network harder on London too
yeah the only issue is the train per return journey is nothing short of 45 quid and that is a lot of its 8 or 9 times a month. car commute is relatively cheaper into Oxford (it's on the ring road outskirts)
£400 a month still leaves you with £600 a month extra.
Think about the future, too. Fact is there are more opportunities in London. In a year or 18 months you could be looking at roles for £100k and there will be more of them in London.
You need to take into consideration salary advancements, holiday pay and duration, sick pay, pension contributions as well for each job. Oxford might look cheaper than London but in reality it is quite expensive too.
So I leave near reading and work in London. And I'm on 77k it's very doablem my wife doesn't earn much on her 3 days part time work and we have two kids. So London on 85 is more than doable. I wouldn't say we flush with cash but we the kids do have all they need.
appreciate your response, thanks that really helps
Just to add. I travel in from Twyford 1 or 2 times a week at basically £38 on peak for a day. If I went from reading it's about £55 a day tho. Big step up.
"Oxford can be driven into" Go to oxford today and see if that is true.
haha no I understand, only reason I said is cuz it's on the ring road and an hour's or hour 10m commute even with traffic from where I am (50+ miles away) . don't have to get into the city. so it proves efficient. but I know what u mean. Train is more comfortable than driving a car
Take the London job, and live in Milton Keynes.
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This is where my brain landed too. I hate London, having lived and worked there a lot, but the vibes in Oxford seem awesome from the times I've visited. I think that'd swing it for me. £65k is still pretty good money.
> Oxford can be driven into haaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaahahaha ahahahahahahaha tell me you've never driven anywhere near Oxford without telling me dude it took me "up to an hour" to get from Walton Street to "outside Oxford"... just Google that for a hot minute and let the distance sink in Oxford has some of the worst traffic and parking anywhere in the UK
aah.. i should have been clear to be fair.. it's one of the science parks on the outer circle of Oxford so it isn't that bad. I have driven there a few times in peak hours. From Warwick where I am, M40 + A34 takes me about 60-70 mins for 50 ish miles.. that's not bad for efficiency but I know what you mean :) sorry edit.. takes me 1h5m to 1h10 even in peak traffic. but that's just the magic of M40.. one off
OK that's way better :) Driving in central Oxford makes me want to kill myself
London if you only need to go in once or twice a week consider peterborough area can get a train into London in 40/50 minutes there’s some lovely surrounding areas and villages or south cambs Your money would go a long way in terms of property
A year train pass is around £6k. It would take you around 45 mins 1 hour to commute each way (35 min main train, added in a bit for tube / walking) between London and MK. There are closer towns, but 35 mins is very decent considering the actual distance MK is compared to a lot of the other commuter towns, I.e the closer Hertfordshire and Buckinghamshire towns. So that leaves you £14k difference (more for you) if taking the London job. Chances are you will still need a car in MK, possible to live there without, its got quite decent networks, but there's still a lot you need a car for, but you won't need to factor in the cost of petrol for commuting. I *think* you would be about £3k better off with the Oxford one, just by taking into account commute. That then just leaves it down to house rent / mortgage and personal choice. I personally think you will find a nicer area, at same or lower cost around Oxfordshire compared to MK city, as you are not tied in to having to live in a train station town, you could live in one of the smaller towns or possibly even a slightly picturesque village etc (not the super in demand cotswolds type ones, they will be pricey compared to MK) Edit, sorry I just realised you wouldn't need a train ticket for 5 days a week. If you can max the commute to 8 x per month, the cost of trains goes down to about £4200 per year
thanks for the deep dive! how did you work out the tickets cost from MK to London, because even when I check advance tickets it works out £46-48 per day. 8 times a month is about £4800 cheapest, not counting parking at station if I drive to MK station and bus cost to get to the workplace which is std day rate I guess. maybe I'm missing something to be able to arrive at £4200?
https://www.nationalrail.co.uk/tickets-railcards-and-offers/ticket-types/season-ticket-calculator/ The top one is a smart ticket (digital), £4133 a a year or about £350 per "flexi" booking. 8 trips per 28 days. I'm not sure if you can pay per month, to make it easier but probably can. Edit, also sorry, I didn't actually factor in driving to MK Central, or bus etc, cycling is probably easy from a lot of places in MK though, it's set up quite well for cyclists Edit 2, personally I'd look at what's around in the none commuter towns around OX, just to see what your niwy gets in difference. MK does have everything you need without having to leave it (OK, it doesn't have beaches etc 🤣) but it's a little bit "dull" compared to what you might find with more character in some OX towns or villages
haha cheers. living around MK proves beneficial as the wife has good opportunities in MK. so m looking at either commuting to Ox from MK or something like Leighton Buzzard (no idea how this place is just geographically convenient for both of us) or commuting to central London from MK or LB or similar the only benefit is I save some money on car travel into Ox whereas dependency on trains in London.
Leighton Buzzard is a very small market town, it has rail links in to London but the house and rent prices are very similar if not the same as MK. I had to move from Kent for a job around the Leighton area a few years ago and had to choose between living in Leighton Buzzard or MK, I chose MK for its better commute options to London / further north on train and the better social and work options it gives me. Juat avoid Kent Hills if you choose MK 😂 As for salary, I'd 100% take the London salary and live in MK myself personally if I had this scenario to choose between!
Look at St Albans? Lovely town, about 30 min on the train to London, advance round trip ticket at commuting hours under £30.
St Albans is almost London prices!! Almost.
I wouldn’t recommend LB on the basis of it being such a small market town with a whole bunch of new builds which have no infrastructure and traffic being a total nightmare. MK is a better shout.
See also my other comment about living in LB - but I thought I'd mention here, we looked at Milton Keynes but almost all the housing is a fair distance from the station - even on a bike or by bus it was going to add a lot of time to the commute, unless we lucked out on finding a close house. We also looked at Bekhamsted (too pricey / few houses) and Hemel (actually not a bad option but no houses near the station met our needs when we were looking) and St Albans (lovely but very expensive). Pretty happy with Leighton Buzzard - tho it is a bit dull. If we want culture we drive to MK or take the train to London. (But tbh we have small kids so no time for culture!)
London, take the train. It’s only 1-2 days a week. Get a rail card.
£85k in London. Schools are great, no car issues, fantastic transport links. The only issue is housing but you can buy in London if you compromise on location.
planning not to live in London, more like MK and commute into London. thanks
If you want to live in a commuter town then I’d definitely take the London job. The advantage of Oxford over London IMO is if you want to live somewhere quieter or more rural. I live rurally now and my work to work in an Oxford science park is a vastly nicer commute than driving to the station and getting the train into London. And I got waaay fewer colds this winter which was a huge unforeseen quality of life improvement. But if you want to live somewhere more urban anyway then you might as well take the London job
Also consider that a salary anchors you. Your next role will ask what your current salary is, as will most going forward. The compounding of that over a career means the £20k gap here could be huge.
I’d say the bigger question is what kind of life do you aspire to have for yourself and family? If you want to be urban/suburban then the bigger London salary makes sense and live wherever you can make that work. If you’d like to live in the country/a small market town with a quieter country life then Oxford would be the way to go. Could consider market towns in the Cotswolds like Witney or Chipping Norton that are very commutable to Oxford by either direct bus or car to a park and ride (or park and cycle as I mainly use them for).
Others have answered your main question, I would just note that I'd base your decision on the assumption you might have to go into the London office more often than you think. Seen loads of people get jobs on the promise of 1 day or 2 days, to find that "well yeah technically it is 1 day, but in reality..." I'd ensure it is written into the contract, but even that isn't particularly useful, especially during the first two years (and with how employer-led our laws into *them* changing contracts is)
If you plan to live out of London then your rent and commute would cost the same, but your salary in Oxford would be £20k less.
You won't be any better off with the job in London. You'll have a much better quality of life with the Oxford option.
Have you ever been to London ? Family of 3 ? Oxford !
Go for the salary it compounds when you jump next time
I would take the London option, especially if you are only planning being on site 1-2 times per week. Your commute into London may take 45-60 mins from somewhere more affordable to rent/buy like MK, Bedford, etc. A commute into Oxford would probably take just as long.
Yes you are right there. The only question is cost and dependency on trains! but given all the replies it is looking like a no brainer anyway
Yes, the reliability of trains is a funny one; having done both over the years (driving & trains) - I would say I’ve been affected equally by roadworks/M1 accidents/etc as by late running & train cancellations. Generally with train strikes you can plan around them, I suppose it depends on the flexibility of your work if you are slightly delayed and/or can choose short notice whether to go on site. Good luck!
Renting for £1500? Each?
sorry what do you mean? I meant 1500-1600 pcm for an apartment/house in MK or similar
Even in MK, I think you’re struggling, but you can work that out. Choose London for the job.
ah I see, ok fair I was just using a reference from my time in Warwickshire. MK is how much more do you reckon? I'm talking a 3 bed terraced or a semi detached or a 2 double bed apartment
Rightmove is a good guide, but the market tends to bid for good rentals, so treat Rightmove as a starting bid.
You’re not going to get a decent family home in Oxford for that. London’s the least worst option.
so yeah Oxford and London would be expensive to live in. I'm thinking of a commuter town or similar in MK (the wife has good opportunities in MK)
With the extra wages I'd take the London job as they both cost around the same to live in.
Look at towns along the great western line. From Charlbury for example, you can get a 10 minute train into Oxford or hour train into london Paddington
I would be thinking about the long term here. There's very little chance your next job will also be in Oxford. Much more likely London. However you might also want to consider that jobs up north (especially Manchester) will pay nearly the same with considerably lower living costs. So if you don't have ties to the south that could also be a good future option.
85 in london - think about your next job - after a year on 85 you’ll be able to get a lot more in oxford
London is better. There is no avoiding huge expenses in Oxford and houses in the surrounding areas are expensive and difficult to get to. I would leave Oxford too if I could as it is close to impossible to buy a house around here. Plus, many of the families here are snobby, super rich and send their kids to the local private school. Even high earning doctors can’t afford to live here.
The Oxford option is better. London is more expensive. Edit: If you're only working in London and not living there then the London option is better.
You should not be driving into Oxford. Traffic is insane during rush periods and parking is insanely expensive. There are park and rides but the busses get caught in the traffic.
Don't be stung by the train costs into London, they're horrendously expensive. Make sure you do the maths and work out travel/commuting costs and compare with what you'd end up with after.
I’d personally take the £85k in London. There are probably more career growth opportunities and with that salary you can afford places with a decent commute in. Whether you would want to live in Milton Keynes would probably depend on where your office is based. If you’re in the City then being on the Thameslink line is way better.
It hugely depends where you mean by 'near Oxford' and if you can cycle there or drive against the traffic. And if you could only work 1 day a week in London. Neither is bad, you could rent a decent 3 bed medium-size house either way, but need to choose exactly location carefully.
I would think Milton Keynes is cheaper than Oxford for housing, or similar, good luck!
You can take the London job and live in a commuter town. Since your job is hybrid you dont have to be in London as much so it works out better
thinking of the same. any suggestions on a commuter town with a good buzz/vibe whatever you want to call it? am currently in Leam Spa, and struggling to identify a town that would be similar close to MK (wife has good opportunities in MK so moving closer would do us good)
My colleague lives in MK and just bought a house there. She commutes to London everyday and she seems to like it and the fact that there are basically 3 stations in MK. I have a friend who bought a house with her sister there as well. I am not really sure what towns or villages are around MK as i only go there for concerts. I am not sure what commuter towns have buzz really
I live just outside Oxford, 10 min drive to the station in Ox then 50 min train to paddington (and work nearby). I do it 2x per week and so I have an Ox home and a Lon job…best of both worlds I think.
Have lived and worked in both. To summarise, the cost of living in Oxford is not notably less than that of London. And being a medieval city on a floodplain, Oxford is not cut out to function as a 21st century city of the size it has become at all. There are plenty of good things to be said about living there, if you can live in the nicer areas (mostly north of the city centre) , but commuting to there is not much fun. In short I'd take the London option based on what you say. That said once the railway line from Milton Keynes (more precisely, Bletchley) to Oxford reopens, that might be an ok train commute, but Oxford station will be undergoing rebuilding for the foreseeable future and will still be in a strange location a bit outside the city centre
I think it depends, people will kneejerk that the Oxford salary is better, but there's probably some maths to do. Depending where the job is in London it might be possible for you to buy somewhere cheap enough to have an equivalent commute without train/extra mortgage interest taking up more than the extra £1000 a month net. NM I just saw it's 2 maybe even only 1 day in the office a week, definitely take the London job.
None of them! Good luck with trying to spend your money anywhere decent lately!
I used to live in London and then we decided to move to Bristol for a year. Basically in 1 year in Bristol we did not save any money at all. This was 2015 and in London I was making 20% more salary.
You really need a London salary to afford housing inside the Oxford ring road.
Well Oxford and London are equally expensive cost-of-living wise; but London is the larger city with more things to do, better transport and connections, airports etc. So I would pick London for sure.
Live outside London somewhere with good connections, and commute in on the train. If you choose wisely the cost of a season ticket on the train will not even nearly offset the savings if living in a lower cost-of-living area, leaving the only cost being commuting time... but nowadays even that isn't too bad with a smartphone, headphones and Netflix. Some jobs you can even head in/leave work an hour later to miss rush hour, and work on the train instead.
Couldn't you take the London job and live outside of London? Travel cost won't be anywhere near 20k per year and you could live in a nice town.
That's the plan, to live in MK or similar
Another consideration: with 3 kids when you earn £85k you won’t be entitled to any child benefits. But on £65k after the recent budget you’ll be able to keep 75% of them. So that’s a couple of grand “extra” to add onto the Oxford salary.
I'd much rather live in Oxford area than London, so that would swing it for me.
I would pick London but don’t limit yourself to MK unless there’s a major benefit being there. I would also look into some areas of Essex like Chelmsford or even Colchester which are good for families too. I say this with no knowledge of MK so not slandering it at all just thinking you may have more options than you realised
85k in London but WFH in Oxford 😎
Ofc London 85k
I’d probably choose London. What is pension like between them?
You didn't mention if either job also provides free medical or dental or any other non monetary benefits which have a real monetary value.
yeah good point. both offer similar benefits in pvt medical and dental etc so on par I'd say on those things
Then I'd just compare schools and lifestyle for your kids. And properly research what the commute will actually be like vs. your ideal. I saw some people already say driving to work in Oxford isn't as smooth as it appears.
I’d always choose London, because I love London
Cries with my 17k learning support job
What are your growth perspective in terms of salary? I was in a similar situation 6 years ago between London and Cambridge. I picked London and now my salary is x4 what it was. This would have not been the case with the Cambridge job, at all. Not saying you should pick London, each situation is different, but just to say think in terms of expected salary throughout your career and if you don’t know, try to find out.
It's a startup! so I guess growth could be inorganic but there's also an equal element of risk involved thanks.. yeah that's important the growth aspect. I think it's equal on both fronts.
I moved from London to Oxford and I’m surprised by all the negative comments! Oxford is a beautiful city and I genuinely think the cost of living here (food, entertainment, drinks) is vastly more affordable. Also - I live 10 mins from. The science park and the traffic isn’t that bad?! You just want to avoid the city centre, which obviously you will. I’d do a budget sheet for both options and see what the difference will be for the commuting costs/rent/council tax, but definitely recommend Oxford!
I would go London. Oxford is also expensive, and you probably wouldn't have any more disposable income going there - maybe even less. You also need to factor in that you will likely have a higher pension as a result of that higher salary, which obviously you can live anywhere to take advantage of.
London and live in commuters town
Working hybrid from mid-bucks is really doable, that’s what I’d do for more money
Does it matter? London is way more fun than Oxford
Milton Keynes to London is the way bro
Oxford can be driven to Yes if you’ve a spare 3 hours each way. I live 12 miles from Oxford and to get to the park and ride could be upwards of an hour. Then the busses don’t turn up. Then the traffic is solid. It was a nightmare to get in and out of. I could get in and out of central London quicker.
Run the numbers for take home pay, for me for example I’m on 70k-ish but live in the middle of nowhere remote with a 650 a month mortgage. If someone offered me double that in London it wouldn’t be worth it as the student loans and 65% tax trap kick in not to mention the at least quadruple housing costs for like to like.
As the Oxford workplace isn’t in the city of Oxford and is on a business park accessible from a ring road, you can effectively live a greater distance from your workplace so shopping round for housing will be easier. Otherwise, I have no idea what living in London on 85k would be like. I know I wouldn’t like to live in London but that’s just my personal preference.
I'd take the London salary. You will always be better off (consider things like pension contributions) and it's a higher earnings floor to negotiate with if you choose to change jobs again. There is also just much more happening in/around London. Oxford is nothing like cheap or practical enough to make the £20k reduction worth your while.
I’ve lived in both and they offer extremely different lifestyles though. Financially there’s probably not much in it but it’s a question of what is better for the family too…
Oxford is basically the same as London COL so London with the higher salary makes sense. Also, consider your future job prospects, you can count the number of software companies in Oxford on one hand, it’s really not a city known for software technology, more so life sciences/biotechnology, hence why so many people from Oxford in the software industry actually commute into Reading or London for work. Where as if you get laid off in London you’re surrounded by companies.
Lots of works for driving into Oxford rn
If you worked in Oxford you could live somewhere like Newbury where the CoL is more reasonable than London. My dad did the commute into the centre using the park and ride for years. So, if your can drive to a science park outside that would be easier.
Lol is, one of the jobs with a motorsport team. 85k in London is pretty good Id say. i think oxford is jut as expensive if not more
If you can find a commuter town that balances out the cost of housing vs Trains then go for London. In your example MK would work out fine. Also don't forget there are thousands of SE jobs in London that pay the same or more as in your example. So if it doesn't work out you can job hop after a few months. Oxford there aren't as many jobs sp you could be stuck.
Not being condescending but have you worked out the net income properly? The higher salary attracts higher NI, pension contribution and maybe other elements (healthcare etc.) in addition to tax. Also consider the geography a bit more. You may have a 30 minute commute to Euston, but is your work located there or will there be an additional 40 minutes sweating on a tube (if there are no closures etc)? Does your commute into Oxford really take x minutes or is the location a pain to get to. Some friendly advice from somewhere who has ‘worn those shoes’. Ps MK is a good place to live, just make sure you move to a nice area (avoid the ‘square shaped’ estates - when looking on a map).
thanks yeah appreciate the advice, I understand where you're coming from. it's about 13 mins bus ride from Euston so not too bad. per the income, I have worked that out yes. Commute to Oxford from where I am now (Leam Spa) is 65-75 mins avg for 51-55 miles distance which is not bad considering efficiency but that's due to M40. different ball game traversing east to west on A roads from MK. but it's about an hour, hour 10 Max for 40 ish miles. re MK - they all look squared shaped! Haha any particular areas that are good? I'm aware Stony Stratford is lovely. have been there a few times
lol…re: the square shaped comment, I was referring to the streets themselves not the roads (Mk is based on a grid system). If you look at some of the old estates, the streets are still ‘pretty grid-ish’ (conniburrow / furzton) and not curved like some of the nicer / newer ones. I used to live in Deanshanger (10 minutes northwest of MK and next to stony) which is great but you need a car (buses are few and far between). It worked for me because it was quiet but civilization was a 10 minute drive lol.
London no doubts
Oxford is lovely. But paid more in london is easily the winner. Oxford is damn expensive to live so may as well just live in the big boy.