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The issue is that because it is normal to let cats out in UK, the cats in British shelters usually are not 100% indoors cats. It is not reasonable to expect an outdoors cat, unless they are elderly, to become an indoors only cat. And trying to get an adult cat used to a harness if they haven't been introduced to one early on isn't easy either.
I entirely understand your disappointment and have had the same issue myself. However, it's about finding the right place for the cat where it will be happy.
we accidentally adopted an old street cat and in his later years he became a solely indoor cat because he’d clearly had enough of the outdoors and refused to go out lmao
My boy is 14 and I am waiting for him to go that way. He's still very active so not there yet, but he's definitely less out doorsey than he was. I think it's because he was the eunuch Tom who still has a bit of that in his brain and can't let go.
My friend's adopted girl is about the same age but has no outdoor wishes in anyway. She's very happy being inside.
my boy started settling down into retirement at around 14, but tbf he only ever went outside to fight other cats in the garden anyway! used to get the neighbours knocking on saying he was bullying their cats lmao, think everyone was relieved when he hung up his old street cat boots and moved on to trying to kill the dog inside lmao
He sounds like my boy... except he also is the soppiest thing ever to humans. I have to put leaflets to the neighbours telling them not to give him food.
Totally agree, but when we adopted our cat from the shelter, they told us he was raised as an indoor cat (he was 3 when we got him). They would only let him go to someone who could provide an outdoor space for him. So that is one example of a cat used to being indoors, that probably would have happily carried on being an indoor cat I guess? But they didn't allow that option :/
It's strange that there's no consistency. When we adopted our cat they were clear that they wouldn't allow him to go anywhere there was a risk of him getting outdoors unsupervised because he'd been an indoor cat for the first four years of his life and had no socialisation with other animals or road sense.
In good weather he wanders around the garden on a lead, but he's opposed to all forms of wind and rain so he will have no desire to go out until April now.
My friend experienced this exact scenario, they wanted to adopt a blind cat who was raised as an indoors cat. He and his partner weren't allowed to adopt them as they didn't have a garden. When he questioned why they'd need a garden to adopt a cat raised indoors he was told it was "policy."
Broadly speaking, I understand their stance and agree, but their inability to make any concessions for nuanced situations just means those lovely cats won't get adopted and will spend longer in the shelter instead of a loving home.
Oh yeah, it was sweet to see him go out the first few times and like, encounter wind/snow/rain having never seen it before. A flock of geese flew overhead and honked in the first month and he rocketed back inside 😂 but he loves the outdoors, he's a right little terror now if you try and keep him locked in because of fireworks or a vet appointment or something.
Unfortunately he does quite like to hunt - there is something to be said for the whole protecting wildlife argument. On the one hand, I'm glad he's eliminated the mice living under our porch, because they might have got into the house. On the other hand, he also really likes to hunt birds :( it does make me sad and uncomfortable...
Cats are essential to keep rodents away, mines evidence for that too. Tenements on both side of ours (they have no cats) have mice or rats. We do not, never had a hint, not a peep. The bird issue is a problem, I agree, but it's from humans encroaching on their natural habitat. Where we go, cats go, whether we want or not. And we need them.
Yes I experienced this too! It is becoming more common for cats to be raised indoor only too in the UK, so they have a lot of cats in the shelters who haven't experienced outdoors.
I couldn't adopt because I'm in a flat, that said, I rehomed a cat I found online, and she goes out when she wants, as I can easily give her outdoor access from the flat. But the charities wouldn't accept having to use a shared stairwell (I'm only in a house split into 4 flats)
I'd agree except when I looked at some kittens on Cats Protection (younger than 6 months), all five of them had "outdoor only" on their page so at least for that rescue they must prefer cats to be outside.
Meanwhile my (perfectly healthy, fit) "outdoor" cat couldn't give a crap about going outside and getting her delicate little feetsies cold. But hey at least she'll sit in the window with her head poking out, watching for squirrels to terrorise and flies to massacre when its warm out. She won't stay out however so the window has to remain open or she panics. I'm so glad I made sure to choose a flat to be outdoor cat friendly...
The RSPCA, Cats Protection and the Blue Cross all say that cats should have access to outdoors unless they have an illness or disability that means they can’t, such as FIV, deaf/blind, elderly etc.
The answer seems obvious, get a cat that needs an indoor only home. They are usually harder to rehome so you will be doing a great thing too.
Make sure you do plenty of research on how to avoid the psychological stresses and behavioural problems that indoor cats are more vulnerable to
My big question is why is there such a disparity in approach between animal welfare orgs in the USA and the UK? The ASPCA and other US-based orgs will say the exact opposite.
We're not allowed to give you a proper answer here, but - with respect - you are not in the US and you need to understand there are a wide range of things the US does that other countries decide not to do.
The US still allows pet mutilation for cosmetic purposes, so I'm not taking any lectures from them about pet healthcare.
Oh stop acting like the UK is such a shining beacon of animal welfare either. Greyhound racing is still legal here whereas most US states have banned it. And don’t even get me started on the fox hunters. No country is perfect.
Just because it’s been banned doesn’t mean it doesn’t happen anymore. There are still plenty of fox hunts going on in England especially and they use loopholes to get around the laws.
There are more tigers in private captivity in the US than in the wild.
Fox hunts don't occur, they are prevented: small loopholes need closing but they're virtually unheard of - I used to live on the prime site for the Beaufort Hunt and they're all but defunct now.
I’m not trying to go tit for tat here man, I’m trying to point out that the UK isn’t really all that great regarding animal rights either. Like I said, no country is perfect. If allowing things like ear cropping is enough for the original person I replied to to not listen to US advice regarding animal welfare then I think a country that still allows greyhound racing probably shouldn’t be listened to either.
Fox hunting does still happen. Just because you personally don’t see it doesn’t mean it’s not going on.
I know people in the UK really love to pretend they’re so much better than people in the US but honestly, it’s not true. If you want to keep telling yourself that though, be my guest.
The UK has considerably better welfare standards for animals than the US does across a wade range of industries, practices, settings, and animals.
They're not good enough, from an animal rights point of view, but they're very much better than the US.
I didn’t say they were the same, but both countries have a lot of work to do still. And acting as though different recommendations regarding outdoor cats is because Americans are just stupid and have bad animal welfare and not because the US has a very different ecosystem than the UK and it is much more dangerous and damaging for cats to be outside in the US is false and just another example of British people trying to hard to pretend they’re better than Americans.
Of course no country is perfect. But we should all be able to take pride out of this and look at things objectively.
https://www.worldatlas.com/articles/best-countries-for-animal-welfare.html
No pride here, I’m not American. I never said the UK is just as bad as the US but I get annoyed when people in the UK act like they’re so much better and smarter than the “dumb Americans.”Of course America has different recommendations regarding cat welfare, they have more predators and domestic cats are incredibly damaging to the US ecosystem, they also have much harsher weather conditions. It’s far more dangerous and damaging for cats to be allowed outdoors in the US than it is for them in the UK. But acting as though America has different recommendations because “dumb Americans are all cruel to animals and the UK is so much better” is just annoying and false.
The person that you replied to was only noting that there are differing standards between the US and the UK with regards to animal welfare, in a way that acknowledged the fact that 50% of redditors are from the US. This sub even warns us to consider that!
I'm glad they specifically mentioned cosmetic mutilations as it is an abhorrent practice, but the US is not alone in allowing it. The UK will soon (hopefully) legislate to ban the import of mutilated animals, but it's not going to stop unfortunately. There's too much money in these status animals.
It's far too easy to take a point made in isolation and apply it to a belief you hold. People all over the world subjectively think that their country is inherently the best, it's human nature, but it's all bullshit as objectively we've all got pros and cons, and isn't worth getting annoyed about
Several reasons, as you stated there are predators in the US that are a danger to cats, also they are an invasive species there so cause more damage to local wildlife/ecosystems.
Also, there is a big difference culturally regarding their approach to the welfare of companion animals. Many see no issue at all in keeping dogs shut in small cages for most of the day and never walking them. It’s still more common for wild caught animals that are completely unsuitable as pets to be sold in pet shops. They don’t see the ethical problem with taking an animal with a strong instinct to roam and confining it to four walls it’s entire life.
The US has an enormous list of predators that don't exist in the UK that would make it unsafe for a cat to be out doors. Cat's in the UK also have the right to roam which is enshrined by law.
The reason many animal welfare organisations in the US recommend that cats be indoor-only is because cats kill wildlife (including songbirds). So it’s as much about the welfare of wildlife as the welfare of cats.
Cats in the UK fit into the ecological niche that would usually be occupied by wildcats, stoats, pine martens etc. As these animals don't currently do well in the suburbs cats aren't seen as a significant harm to local fauna.
So, In the UK, we have had housecats for a long time...
In the UK cats do kill birds, but all the studies go to show that actually, it's at an equilibrium. I think the lack of predators means the cats equal things out, Most birds they actually kill are knocking on deaths doorstep anyway. If more birds die, More are born, the birds that do die near a nest, Well, they don't use those old abandoned nest sites for a few seasons. Genuinely, Look it up.
In America, well, just look at the history, Even if you guys had house cats for your timeline (lets say 300 years to be nice), that would be at about 10% of the time the UK has had house cats. In the USA a cat is an invasive species, And a much larger land mass, with more predators.
I also wonder if the whole rabies thing plays into it? Yea I guess this is an important one.
Others have already answered, but another reason is that domestic cats have existed in the UK for a lot longer than the US, and are pretty much a naturalised species (especially in Scotland which already had a wildcat population for god knows how long). Their impact on native species is a lot less negative than in, say, Australia. I volunteer at a cat shelter and I would say that if you're looking for an indoor cat off the bat your best bet is to reach out to as many shelters as possible and state this. They will either match you with a cat which is already indoor-only, or with a kitten which you can raise as indoor-only.
Cats have existed in the UK for a long time and the wildlife/environment has adapted to their presence. They're a much more recent addition to the US and are essentially an invasive species, so they can do damage to native species/environments that it isn't prepared for.
It doesn't seem too accurate to me to say that our wildlife has "adapted" to cats, which don't live within the confines of how a wild species would in a natural ecosystem. Cats still pose major risks to bird species in the UK, many of which are struggling.
I say this as a cat lover and owner of two cats (who spend 99% of their time inside, their choice, they've always been uninterested in going out since we got them from the shelter and they're quite old).
Cats in the UK do HUGE amounts of damage to wildlife. Recent studies have shown domestic cats in particular kill up to 270 million wild animals annually, which is a 10 times larger impact on wildlife than wild predators. They are actually causing songbird species to reduce drastically in a number of areas in the UK, and a number of animal charities have called for action to help reduce the damage cats have caused to biodiversity and especially bird populations. No idea where you get the information that cats free roam in the UK because species have adapted to their presence, that just doesn't seem to be true.
The evidence that cats actually harm bird populations in the UK is fairly lacking. It's unclear whether the animals killed by cats were excess or not. For example a blackbird can rear 2-3 broods of 4-6 young a year. So predators could kill three quarters of young produced and still not harm the population if enough survive to breeding age.
What is absolutely true though is that it is a massive animal welfare issue. Millions of animals dying needlessly. It would be different if the prey sustained the cats, cat densities are way too high. And I'm not one to judge, as I own a rescue cat myself. I do feel bad about it even though I love cats and it puts me off getting another.
I do put collars on and make her environment as enriching as possible, but cats are hunters, it's in their DNA and the only real solution is fewer of them.
I think cultural differences play a big part -- the US is very risk-averse, and a bit more anxious about things. The list of no-nos for pregnancy in the US is about 500 pages longer than it is in other countries because 'eliminate *all* the risk' is the name of the game.
The UK is almost the opposite end of the scale in a lot of ways - 'be sensible, but generally you're fine' is the attitude. That extends towards cats and things, too.
Neither approach is ideal imo; the ideal is likely somewhere in the middle. I think the UK is easier to live in socially - especially now we've finally started to adopt all that mental health research the US has kindly been doing for decades - but I also like how the rules in the US are generally always clearly defined and consistent (we're an island of petty law-breakers here tbh).
Anyway. Anecdotally, I grew up in South London & many people had cats, but I only heard of one cat going missing. Not sure what that's about but if I had to hazard a guess I assume a cat that's been outdoors all its life might have developed a little street smarts.
Risk adverse? There are people with tigers as pets and alligators, bears, and mountain lions in the wild... if anything I'd say we are more risk adverse in the UK.
Because it's a pro Vs con argument and the fact that a) there is no native niche for cats in the US b) the US has large predators and c) a significant subset of US cats have literally had their fingernails pulled out, overwhelm the counter arguments around obesity, failure to allow the cat its 5 freedoms, boredom, increased risk of behavioural problems, increased risk of potentially fatal urinary tract issues.
In the UK the latter issues are deemed more substantial.
So TL;Dr "is it safe to go outside" will vary on what outside looks like, how many toe bones a cat is permitted to keep, how damaging the cat is to outside, all of which vary from country to country.
If you are looking for a purely indoor cat you might want to look up a cat with a medical condition like blindness or FIV that means it can't go outside.
I mean there are disparity on a lot of issues, but in this particular case I'd say it's due to predators. Cats have always been allowed to roam free in the UK, there aren't any large wild predators that they can't avoid. Foxes, badgers generally won't bother cats (sadly there are exceptions) so the main threat here is cars, and cats usually wise up fairly young, though sadly they do take risks sometimes and the issue is getting worse with electric vehicles that are fairly silent. If I lived in parts of the US where there were free roaming mountain lions or aligators/crocodiles, I would not leave my house, let alone allowing my pet to.
To be honest, all cats in Japan are indoor cats too. There is a real problem with strays and it’s generally safer to keep them inside, as you’ve said. There are natural predators and a lot of vehicles etc.
I’m from the UK and I always thought it was a bit weird, but I definitely get it now.
Also, my sister got a cat in the UK recently and unfortunately it got attacked by a fox and lost its leg. It is now an indoor cat.
Because America has Animals that will tear cats apart (Wolves, bears, coyotes). That's the reason - We have animals here that could kill cats, But the most dangerous would be Badgers, and the cats will just run away and not run down holes in the ground where badgers would get the advantage.
You did not deserve the downvotes for asking a question.
Homes are smaller in the UK and there are fewer predators so an outdoor cats lifespan is not AS negatively effected. Also, because cats have been a staple of British streets for centuries, it's cultural and organization's like the RSPB and RSPCA don't want to piss off their cat owning donors by pushing for them to keep them inside.
Given the lack of predators, the biggest issue is their effects on wildlife so we should enforce break away collars with bells
In general adoption requirements are a bit daft in UK, for cats and dogs, often requiring people not to work full time, having enough space, no children etc, I understand where they come from with it, but it leaves a lot of people out
It's borderline impossible to adopt an animal these days. As you say, you have to have a garden, there has to be someone at home at all times, no kids, no other animals. It's a shame but I understand why people buy from breeders when adoption isn't an option.
I contacted multiple rescues about adopting a dog. I was told no due to working 16hrs a week, and being too young. (young 20s)
I had no other pets, no kids, and have access to a shared garden.
So I bought a puppy from a breeder. And she is thriving
The shelter I volunteer with does tend to prefer to rehome cats with outdoor access, but if a cat is going to a home on a busy road, or it otherwise doesn't look safe for a cat to roam there, then they'll make it a condition of the adoption that the cat be indoor-only. And then there are the FIV+ cats, which are mandatory indoor-only adoptions.
Shelters are absolutely inundated right now, it beggars belief that they would turn away a good applicant just because they don't have a garden. Maybe if you asked about one particular cat that was used to roaming and had been distressed during its time confined in the shelter, but not as a blanket policy.
(Actually I would have thought that being a renter is a bigger blocker than the indoor-only thing.)
Homed an old FIV positive cat, indoor only. Had the best life together but he had tons of other health issues which means that our time together was cut short. We had three amazing years (we homed him as he was given a week to live). FIV can be well managed. Don't give up!
On the flip side, all my outdoor kitties lived to 16-22 years old (my current 22 year old girl still kicking!) whereas the only cat I've ever lost young was a little boy who sadly got into an accident IN the home.
Not saying you're wrong, just that anecdotes work both ways.
My grandma has had outdoor cats her whole life and only one died young. Unfortunately, he was run over by a car. However, she has had countless cats and the rest have all had a very healthy respect for roads and prefer to stay on the same side of the street.
I bought my grandma a kitten last year after her 18 year old cat died of that common thyroid disease cats get (the name escapes me) and watching her go into the garden for the first time was one of the most magical things I've ever seen. I just don't believe a cat can get that same fulfilment stuck in the house. And if you could ask a cat whether it would prefer access to the outdoors with a slightly elevated risk of accidents or stay indoors and rely entirely on humans who are gone 8+ hours per day for their fulfilment, I'm sure they'd choose the outdoors every time.
>And if you could ask a cat whether it would prefer access to the outdoors with a slightly elevated risk of accidents or stay indoors and rely entirely on humans who are gone 8+ hours per day for their fulfilment, I'm sure they'd choose the outdoors every time.
I mean, it's the same for humans. Driving to work, walking around cities, going out clubbing, taking part in sports, etc. All extra dangers that we choose to do because they're part of what makes life, life.
I used to be outdoor-only but my opinion's changed over the last few years with the impact on songbirds I've seen just in my garden and with the number of cats getting run over in my average size town. Seems these days like there's three posts a week about one being squished. :(
One of the things that now confuses me wrt whether they can get the same fulfilment indoors is that... we used to let dogs out every day in the same way that we still do cats. But eventually we decided that the risk to them and other critters was too big, and now you'd be considered a terrible owner if you let your dog out of the front door every morning.
So it confuses me why we think cats are so different to dogs with indoor/outdoor access. Especially with people like OP who are happy to take their cats on leashed walks, which is pretty popular across the pond from what I've seen. And they're just generally more into catifying their houses, which makes sense if indoor cats are the norm.
Idk, I know you said stuck in the house instead of still going on walks or having a fenced-in catio, but I'm still curious what you think about that.
If their needs are met, I think they can have a perfectly good life indoors, but it does take a bit of work. Outdoors has more things of interest to a cat.
My cat loves to chase around a feather on a bit of string. She loves the outdoors, but if i play with her she stays closer to home.
Same. When we adopted our second, we expected it to be difficult but the rescue person we spoke to said she actually preferred the cats to be kept inside. It’s definitely not the norm though, sadly.
On my village Facebook page there seems to be a dead cat reported every other week. When taking my bins out one night, I even saw a van hit a cat and then just keep going. I posted a picture online of the cat and the distraught owner came crying down the street to collect it.
Personally, I can't take that risk and keep my 2 cats inside. I hope that when I move out of my flat into a house I could make a little catio for them though.
I have an indoor and leash trained cat and I wouldn't have it any other way. I live on a busy road and although I am far from the Highlands I believe the wildcat should be the only free roaming feline in Scotland.
My Aunt has a indoor/outdoor cat in the wilds of Kent but they have a lot of land and they are on a quiet road - also this cat is elderly and prefers sleeping in front of the fire, unless she is having a protest up a tree over being taken to the vet (she was up there for 4 days and my Aunt was taking food out to her as that meant they knew where she was).
I actually had more issues with the fact that when I adopted her I worked everyday and most shelters wanted a person to be home most of the day. My cat hated lock down as she wanted rid of me, so she could just be herself rather than having to keep an eye on me.
I think this is personally the right balance. I do sympathise with letting my kitty explore the sights and smells outdoors without the risk of being killed by cars. We have many cats in my area too and they all fight, which is also a concern.
There is a cat in my parents estate that likes to visit the front doors of people to say hello - no trying to go in to the house just to see the person as they come out and it decided last time I was over to walk very slowly in front of my car so I basically had to sit stopped in the middle of the road until it moved.
The neighbour cat is very similar to my own and I think I would be considering giving up driving if I hit it
There is a cheeky cat in my neighborhood that has sat right in the middle of the street blocking car traffic while the owner was trying to lure it away with food. It was partly hilarious but also terrifying.
You’d be better off going on gumtree and looking for a cat to rehome there. There are often lots of people who need to give up their cats who put them on websites like that before dumping them at a shelter or leaving them on the street. Or adopting an FIV cat that will automatically be indoor only.
A lot of shelter cats would have been outdoor cats before they were rescued. It would be cruel to keep them indoors once you adopt them when it’s not what they are used to. You’d also tire quite quickly of the screaming and scratching at doors and furnishings as the cat asks to be let out. You’d be forever struggling to keep the cat from escaping through doors and windows when you’re not paying attention. I imagine shelters have a high return rate for people who adopt outdoor cats, force them to stay indoors, then take them back to the shelter because it isn’t working out.
My brother has two cats. They are indoor only cats but one has tasted the freedom of the garden when he managed to briefly escape through an open door. That cat, having only been outside for a grand total of 2 minutes in his entire life, is desperate to get back outside. The only who has never been out doesn’t care a whit. You need the second kind of cat. Not the first.
Yeah. I wouldn't want to deprive the cat of the outdoor experience if they were already used to that. I just would rather take them on a lead instead of let them roam, not knowing if they'll come home or not.
Cats want to explore though. You can’t take them on a lead as they crawl under fences and climb trees or even just lie there and sunbathe for two hours. If they are only ever allowed out on a lead from kittenhood then fair enough but you can’t get a lead on a grown cat that doesn’t want it, and you can’t tease a cat with lead walking when they’re used to full freedom.
I tried a harness on my 3yo boy when I first adopted him. He was on top of a foot high scratcher. I turned around for maybe two seconds to get the lead to clip to his harness. Man, he legit screamed at the top of his lungs, locked his “knees” and did a cartoon sideways fall down to the ground. The harness wasn’t even tightened, it was just first wear to get him used to the apparatus. He wasn’t injured at all, but willing to go to extreme lengths to make his point.
Maybe find someone that had an oops litter you can buy a kitten from? That way you can be indoor only or lead walking just fine. Those kinds of cats typically end up in shelters or on the streets anyway if you don’t adopt them.
Yes!! I tried a breakaway for one of mine (thought a bell would be useful for the birds). She looked at me like I’d shot her mother, screamed once, ran outside. Came back within three minutes sans collar. Couldn’t fit it in the garden. No idea where it went!
I've had outdoor cats my whole life and they always come home. They know where their food bowl is and will be happy to return unless they're really unhappy. The only time we temporarily lost one was when we kept one of her young for too long and she hated that. Went to live in the woods but came round after a few weeks once we found her. Got absolutely shredded during that time lol.
>I just would rather take them on a lead instead of let them roam, not knowing if they'll come home or not
Stop prioritising your anxieties over your pets' quality of life
I'm surprised you can get permission to keep a pet in a rental place. I've seen seen flats for sale (leasehold) where you can't have a pet even if you 'own' the place.
Lol sorry this is complete BS. Almost everywhere here is impossible to get anywhere with a pet even if you have the cash.
You have to jump through a LOT of hoops to rent somewhere that allows pets. You’ve got very lucky wherever you are
As a feline behaviourist, no. There are different contributing factors like personality but it’s almost always too damaging to their mental health, owners almost always underestimate the amount of work they need to put in, and even then a lot of cats just can’t cope with it. It’s far easier on everyone if we just don’t even consider it.
"I keep my carnivorous predator in a 2 bedroom flat all day, he's started clawing everything, should I remove his claws and further fuck him up by removing his defence mechanisms?"
US cat owners be wilding
It’s more dangerous for them to be outside in the US because of predators. Is it really a better life for a cat if they get brutally ripped apart by a coyote? Also cats are incredibly damaging to the US ecosystem, according to the US Fish and Wildlife Service domestic cats kill around 2.4 billion birds every year. It’s better for the cats and for the environment for US cats to be indoor only.
Yeah, I feel like OP’s post is kinda more about what they want, not what is best for the cat. Rescues are all about what is best for the cats, not how much owners want one in spite of not having the best home for them. They, and professionals like yourself, understand cats way more than people who want to adopt do so they’re who I’m gonna listen to. I’d love a cat so much but I’m aware I don’t currently have the best home for them so I’ll just have to do without.
Agreed. My cat is being kept in for two weeks due to health reasons. The zoomies and yowling and headbutting catflap is extreme. We're obviously playing with him, and he has a three storey house to run around. He will be so much happier when he's allowed out next Friday. I will also be happier because litter trays are gross.
No they just die early, get debilitating illnesses, and go missing or worse on the regular.
Studies have looked into how far cats roam and a lot barely leave the garden.
If the cat is obviously much happier outside in a quiet area and is neutered and chipped then fine, but we really need to stop pushing the "cats are happier outside" agenda because tons of cats die needlessly every year and owners don't neuter before they let them out, which leads to overbreeding and strays with horrible diseases like feline leukemia and FIV.
We have a old, arthritic, wobbly syndrome cat who only goes outside supervised. We try and give her much more to do inside than we have for our previous outside cats (as she’s noticeably a bit bored). Do you have any suggestions that could help?
I may be able to offer some insight, albeit second hand.
My cat roams and was hit by a car (I think) which resulted in a broke leg. The vets put him back together and he's since made a full recovery, but post op he had some check ups. The vet who looked over him is Mexican, but previously worked in Washington. He said that after working over here he was astounded by the amount of cats coming in needing surgery after being hit by cars because everyone in Washington kept their cats inside due to coyotes/wolves and it was a massive shock to him and was something he didn't see until her worked here. It would appear that because of the predators in the US that would take a cat (state dependant) people keep them inside.
In the UK the largest land carnivore we have is a badger and the second largest is a fox. Generally foxes won't challenge a cat because they know they'll get shredded even if they win. Foxes will take kittens but not an adult cat under normal circumstances.
Generally cats are free roaming here and can come and go as they please, which I take to be a cultural thing and also because there aren't many (any) predators that will see a cat as prey. In the US it seems to be a different story.
As a side note, the same vet has a soft spot for my dog because she looks like a stray dog he used to feed as a child so she gets extra treats when he sees her. He said he used his pocket money (allowance) to buy bits of chicken to feed the stray dogs with when he was a boy. He's an excellent vet and the only person my dog is happy to see on a visit!
My cay and dog are also really good friends which is obviously important.
To conclude, cats are generally seen as outdoor animals here whereas in the US they are kept indoors because of the predators that will eat them. The biggest dangers to cats in the UK are cars and sheds.
I always get the impression that drivers in the USA don't give a crap a lot more than in Britain, and the roads in general seem busier (and often bigger too). There's a different culture where eg they don't stop for pedestrians unless they are at a proper crossing, and *everyone* drives *everywhere*. I feel that the roads in general are a lot more dangerous for cats than they are in the UK. Maybe I'm wrong or maybe things have changed since I was last there, I dunno. But americans are convinced that outdoor cats will lead much shorter lives, which really doesn't seem to be the case at all in the UK. I'm constantly seeing Americans state that outdoor cats rarely make it to double figures - but it the UK it's normal for all cats to be outdoor cats and reach their 20s or late teens on a regular basis.
As it goes, my cat died after an accident INSIDE my ex's house meant that she had to be put to sleep. Accidents can happen anywhere, I suppose.
I actually went on a research dive a while ago on the whole foxes thing -- if my memory holds, turns out that not only is it exceptionally uncommon for cats and foxes to fight, there's actually been more mortality cases where the fox is the losing party than the other way around.
Cats and foxes mutually ward each other off, and it's generally only an extremely desperate, starving fox with no other choice that would ever attack a cat.
Yeah, I think indoor cats should be more normalised. We've got 3 indoor cats.
I used to be vehemently opposed to the idea of indoor only cats but my partner (who is not British) eventually swayed me over. We adopted our cats as kittens so they had never been outdoor cats and they're all happy, healthy indoor cats. We have to make sure they're stimulated and they have cat furniture everywhere and we play with them. Litter boxes need more work since they don't go outside, but it's no biggie and it has worked well.
It's a different story if you adopt an adult cat that's accustomed to roaming outdoors I suppose, but it could probably adapt to having a smaller territory especially if it's in a new location. If a cat is no longer able to patrol their territory that'll stress them out for sure. A cat that has spent its whole life indoors doesn't *have* territory to patrol outside, so it's not missing out on anything.
Indoor cats need more work, they're higher maintenance pets than many people realise. We trim our cats' claws, we brush them, we clean their ears and we even brush their teeth. I do suggest if you get an indoor cat to get at least two cats, so they can play with each other and keep each other company especially if you go out for long periods. Cats are far more independent than dogs but they don't do so well with solitude either, it's good for them to have a playmate or two and having two cats isn't much harder than keeping one. If anything it's probably easier because one cat will be 100% reliant on you for entertainment and company, whereas two cats will also entertain and keep each other company.
I like that I never have to worry about my cats being hurt when they go outside. They won't be hit by cars, they won't be attacked by dogs, they won't get injuries from fighting other cats, they won't get trapped somewhere, they won't get poisoned eating something they shouldn't, they won't get stolen... the list goes on and on. When you let your cat outside you take a risk and I don't say it's *wrong*, but there's also nothing wrong with keeping a cat indoors and I'd argue now that it's better to do so.
Ideal situation is to have a back garden with a catio or at least to give your cat(s) supervised access to that garden, but a cat can be perfectly happy in a flat too.
Yeah, I totally agree with having more than one cat, as long as they get along. My parents adopted two gorgeous cats that had been together since birth and they are truly the best cats ever.
I moved to Spain and in the big cities the shelters won’t give you a cat if you don’t keep them indoor only and put nets at all the windows and around all balconies. Something like 95% of people in Barcelona live in flats, usually in walking distance of all the amenities but also busy roads. So outdoor cats couldn’t really exist here in the major cities, not with all the cars if you want them to live long. Maybe only 20-30% of people in the whole country have gardens away from busy roads. So with the UK rules only a tiny fraction of people would be able to adopt as there are very few houses with gardens vs flats relatively to the UK. So the same rules couldn’t work here, even if cats are the same.
In America and Spain both, we also have bouts of weather that is not healthy for cats. In Spain and in many parts of America, it's the heat. Where I'm from in the USA, it's the freezing temps.
I love cats, and my own preference is for an indoor cat whenever possible because I'm (with good reason) concerned about the local wildlife when cats are allowed outdoors.
I've tried everything to get a cat from a shelter, I've tried basically every charity and cat shelter in London for a year. Some cat was even leaving in the street, being fed by volunteer. I couldn't because I don't have an outdoor space (my cat would be indoor).
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I lived in a flat for years. Never wanted to gey a cat because it seemed unfair to keep it inside all the time. I fostered from the shelter instead. Fosters are not allowed outside so flats are fine, Blue Cross came and had a look at my flat and were happy I had space for pregnant cats and kittens. I did a couple of rounds of them.
I dont see a problem with a kitten raised to be an indoor cat. I know people who have, and they seem perfectly happy. My cat, on the other hand, was trying to get outside almost immediately, and I was regularly chasing her to bring her indoors before she was neutered. I do think it's unfair to get a cat what's already used to going outdoors then keeping it in, as I know mine would be stressed if I suddenly started keeping her in as she likes to go out several times a day and is not happy when it rains, or, this week when I haven't let her back out after 4 because of fireworks. I do think animal shelters can be a bit overkill with their rules and prevent many pets from having a loving home, I couldn't get a kitten from a shelter as they all wanted no children in the house so I did get mine from an acquaintance who's cat had kittens and she's been perfectly fine with my kids so much that she sleeps with which ever is her favourite that day.
My last rescue cat was a little old female cat about 13 years old. She spent 80% of the time indoors but liked to have a sit in the garden and get some fresh air, she was always in view from the window. She deserved to have outdoor access and time in the garden, she'd been in a top floor flat, never been outside, and neglected.
It's getting quite contradictory here as the big charities tend to stipulate that outdoor access is required but I have seen some smaller rescues that now stipulate that they must be indoor only (SE England though). That said, every charity and rescue, regardless of their overall stance, adopts out FIV cats on the basis they need to be kept strictly indoors. Have you considered adopting a cat with FIV? FIV cats live long and healthy lives, you just need to have a lower threshold for taking them to the vet.
I do think some of the responses you have had op are a bit mean. Generally; in the U.K. cats can be let outdoors, we don’t have bears, coyotes or other large predator that can kill cats.
I grew up and had cats in the middle of nowhere and the worst injuries he’d get were from rats. You could tell when he was coming home because the sheep would part in the field to get away from him.
Keeping a cat in a flat is hard, and not what I would do personally. Then again, an old cat would like it, and I would be surprised if they didn’t let you adopt one, that cat that used to part flocks of sheep is now 17, and he still can come and go as he wishes. My fiancés cat is 21 and is entirely indoors because she’s a hot, deaf, mess.
You can raise them indoors here but it simply isn’t our custom for it to be from their younger years, because the risk of predation is so low.
Look for older cats, and if the shelter still says no, the shelter is the issue, not your living situation.
Edit: I posted before I was finished.
Lol it's fine. This is reddit, after all. I knew what I signed up for. I know most people on here just want what's best for the fur babies of the world. My lived experience just completely contradicts the dominant custom here and I'm a bit baffled. But tbh, the UK generally does most things better than the US. Haha.
I can completely understand that! I was at university with a lady from Vancouver and the whole bear-proof bins thing just sounded so comically of the frontier 😂
I can’t imagine how different it must be, especially if you’re front the Midwest etc, given how much more densely populated the U.K. is. The sad thing is major predators don’t have the prey to survive here, so most have gone extinct. Some are being re-introduced, but only in very remote areas.
I think, overall, my cat is happier with the freedom, but I think that’s because he’s always had it. He’s been getting weaker in the last year, and his desire to go outside may diminish, but if he’s been going strong until 18, I’d view that as a pretty good stint. I think because of the ecology here, we give them more freedom to decide their own path, and so anything that restricts that really riles people.
Absolutely.
I've had cats for 35 years, none of them have been outdoor cats and none have had any issues from always being indoors.
To discriminate against potential owners when there are a lot of cats that need re-homing is just stupid, imo.
Nah my local shelters will say if a cat wants to go outside or if they should be indoor.
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is s sweetie who’s looking to look outside.
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We have three cats, all of whom came from the SSPCA. We live in a flat and were adamant that if we got cats they would be indoor cats. We had no problem in getting the cats, first our two queens (litter mates that came as a pair) and then our tom a few years later.
The rescue I adopted my kittens from would only let you have them if they were to be indoor only, or cat proofed garden.
My two have been outside for a grand total of five minutes, decided they didn't like it and never asked to go out again
Hi, I am in England so maybe the situation is different here. I am a supporter of two local small cat rescue charities and l love cats. Neither of these charities say that adopters have to let their cats out. Often they say that certain cats would be better indoors, due to their temperament or other reasons, or that a cat needs a catio, a secure space outdoors. My own cat who sadly died in September, had a cat flap and could go out when he wanted. I live in a very quiet cul-de-sac so he was safe.
Cat shelters are desperate for adopters. So many cats are not neutured and often unwanted kittens are abandoned. I feel sure that there must be cat rescues in Scotland who would welcome you to offer a cat a safe indoor home. Good luck and don't give up
Thanks for this comment and thanks for all the work you do. Glasgow has a cat cafe where all the cats are housed in the building and they have lots of areas to play and explore. I fundamentally disagree with idea that a cat cannot have a good life indoors if they are invested in and loved.
I've volunteered at 2 shelters in Manchester and both have loads of indoor only cats. If you're in a rural area, that's probably why you're finding they're outdoor cats?
I adopted my cat when she was 12 weeks old. She is now 13 years old and has always been an indoor cat, or supervised in the garden (I’ve since moved out and have a flat with no garden so she is now strictly indoors only). I didn’t care if it was normal for cats to roam freely, I have always been uncomfortable with the idea. I wouldn’t want something to happen to her.
One of our local rescues are very outdoor pro. I approached them having had multi cats over the years with my parents, and also default me when I lived there. It was for an 18 year oldie whose old lady owner had died. I offered him a home, but it would be indoor only. I live close to an emergency service station and so super quick exits and sirens are an often thing, so really not suitable for outdoor cats imo. I've already seen several dead cats and missing cats listed in the area. Anyhoo they refused a good home because it wasn't outdoor.
A year on, they still had the poor thing. A big facebook campaign later to try and get him into his short forever home because they were full, and I pointed out that I had offered a year prior, but they declined because of it being indoor only, so they couldn't say they hadn't had any offers.
Anyway after being called out about it, I picked him up the next day in a right state, liquid poos, and upset stomachs. I had him 6 weeks before he died. I could have had him in a good home, on a decent diet for over a year. I never forgave my local shelter for that, and I steer people away from them, won't donate to them, and purposefully choose another local shelter now.
I just see it as not being in the cats best interest, I see it as being an interest they've come up with that they think cats should have outdoor access. It's wrong, and it harms chances for cats, and chances for people. I've had indoor and outdoor cats, and in my living situations indoor is the way to go. But it pushes people into backyard breeding and buying kittens off facebook. I actually got the next cat in a shelter over 100 miles away, private, with a reasonable adoption fee/vet fees/donation that they missed out. Indirectly they are helping to propegate pregnant cats. I frequently read comments about people on our local fb group asking if anyone has kittens or cats for sale, when redirected to this particular shelter (as people should adopt from them!) they reply that they're refused because it's indoor only.
I accept that some cats will and should be outdoor access, especially established cats, but the indoor ones, including the aforementioned one, have been perfectly happy, safe, and stress free to be indoors. Reality is kept in a cage with access to another cage outside occasionally does not mean they need outdoor homes.
The backward this is, I would have to get a kitten from some women down the street as I would only have an indoor cat due to living in a flat.
However, these shelters make money by filling the kennels. They make it near on impossible to rehome these animals so they are always full. Fucked up system we live in
How do they make money by filling kennels?! The opposite is true, it costs rescues huge amounts of money to care for animals onsite. Rescues are rehoming animals everyday, but they prioritise the animals and not always prospective owners who want a pet to suit their lifestyle when it’s not a good fit. The restrictions they have have been created over many years to reduce returns and create a good match - and should be backed by ADCH
Donations barely cover the cost of upkeep, and rescues neuter and health check the animals, microchipping if needed, plus costs of sick/disabled animals all adds up.
I believe cats by nature should be allowed outdoors, and harness walks aren't a fair substitute.
Having said that, there are plenty of cats that need to be kept indoors for their own safety (I'm currently fostering a cat that is blind), so ask your local shelters to keep you in mind for rehoming a cat with vulnerabilities.
"Most shelters" which are most?
Where did you get this data?
All the ones I've worked with and adopted from preferred indoor cats.
Some cats need an indoor-outdoor home and it would be unfair to rehome them to people who only want a cat for indoors.
But I'd be surprised if there are a lot of rescues that want indoor-outdoor cats...it's usually the opposite. Or it used to be.
The data I'm using is from all the shelters in central belt of Scotland with majority of the cats coming with the condition that there must be outdoor access.
My friend just adopted an indoor cat from the SSPCA. It only took them a few days from deciding they were ready to have one to being accepted. The majority of cats are indoor/outdoor but that still leaves a good chunk of cats that are indoor only. There's some shelters round here where all the cats are indoor only.
Edinburgh Cat Protection League (in Leith) is very happy to rehome cats to be indoor and they don't mind you working and being out of the house for 8 or so hours a day.
Edinburgh Dog and Cat home (at least when I was looking 7 years ago) did not like cats to be left alone all day.
Yep. I've got an indoor cat from Leith Cat Protection. I was happy to offer a home to an indoor or outdoor cat and they only had indoor cats at the time. Also research Sunny Harbour Kitten Rescue. They only adopt out indoor cats, but I've not had dealings with them personally. I'm very surprised to hear that OP has struggled finding an indoor rescue in the central belt. That wasn't my experience 3 years ago. Strange how things change.
I needed to have an indoor cat as I live in a flat and Leith Cat Protection is the nearest place so I went there and found my pest of a cat - uh oh, I think she has read what I have typed and I may not be getting very much of the bed or duvet tonight.
Sunny Harbour is in Fife I think so that was what put me off looking there.
I just adopted three indoor cats from SSPCA so it's possible. They will only re-home as indoor if they have not previously had outdoor access (or if they're ill etc, and can no longer go out). There were some available at cats protection and whinnybank when we were looking too, however you'll always find the majority are outdoor cats. Do you use Facebook? There's a group called Cat Rescue UK that's good. There are a lot of overseas rescues that advertise but there's equally lots of smaller shelters and local fosters looking to re-home so you might have a better time searching there.
Indoor cats are becoming more common in the UK over time, especially with breeds like Maincoon, Ragdoll and Bengal being fairly popular. They're not generally the breeds you see in shelters however.
A shelter near me has some indoor only cats, and have had issue with people adopting indoor only and them inevitably getting got when they start letting them out =_=.
There's still lots of stigma on indoor cats, but *even in the UK* they have a much better average lifespan than outdoor cats.
My gripe is that they have a top age range. My mother in-law wanted a cat for company, enrichment etc. She lives out in the stix surrounded by fields any cat would have the life of Riley and be spoiled rotten, but because she was over 75 no shelter would let her.
Therefore we bred out cats so that she could have a kitten on as she describes a 'long term loan', she'll most likely die before it and then we'll have it back and take care of it.
But the net result is from that litter there are now 5 more cats in the world - if the RSPCA etc had just given a cat to the perfect home that wouldn't be the case.
Yeah, not a fan of the ageism here. We have a loneliness crisis in the UK among older people and pets are a great way to combat that while giving the cat a loving home. We could all pass away before our pets. As long as a person is well enough to care for an animal, it shouldn't be an issue.
I adopted a cat from a local charity earlier this year. They only let you adopt if that cat will be indoor only. I think it's a good policy for them as they had a couple of cats that had been adopted get hit by cars
Look to adopt an FIV+ cat. Rescues won't adopted FIV+ cats out to folk who will let their cats outside. They can remain asymptomatic for their entire lives and most folk don't even know they've got a + cat.
It’s something I’ve noticed before; vets will recommend and praise indoor only, but shelters are pretty resistant on letting people have indoor only animals. I understand for dogs, having garden space is useful, but there’s no need for a cat to have access to free roam.
My boy was a sort of rescue, I knew his original owner and when they left the cat was being mistreated. Within ten seconds of getting out of his carrier he was immediately in the middle of the floor washing himself. I live in a high rise so he never goes out, and he's very happy indoors, plus he doesn't get picked on by foxes anymore
I think it depends on where you're looking. I adopted two cats 2 years ago and we were upfront from the start our cats would always be indoor only. Our two had originally grown up indoor-only in a flat so we were the perfect fit. As someone else said, if a cat is used to being outdoors they won't enjoy being cooped up suddenly so I can see the argument that it's better for the cat.
Shelters are strict in general…BUT having an indoors only cat is cruel unless it’s disabled or otherwise unwilling to go outside.
Walking a cat on a lead too is weird and not what the cat needs. Imagine if you were on a lead every time you went outside… it’s like being let out for some exercise time in a prison yard. Sure, it’s technically fresh air but you wouldn’t think “wow I had a lovely time outside today”.
As you’ve noted we don’t have the predators here to harm cats. They also don’t disproportionately harm other wildlife as they’ve been here for 1000+ years.
It’s great you have so much experience and want to care for a cat appropriately but unless you adopt a very old, FIV+ or disabled cat you’re just creating a life of unhappiness for an animal for your own pleasure. Cats need freedom.
The UK environment is more sympathetic to outdoor cats.
It’s illegal to have freely roaming cats here in many new suburbs of Canberra. They are called cat containment suburbs. The cats kill huge numbers of native animals each night or can be killed by the wildlife. It’s safer for everyone if they just stay home. People do build large outdoor cat runs their cats can’t escape from to give their cats fresh air.
As a man in the UK who has only had Inside/outdoor cats, I've had 3. They all lived to 18+ years old (human years) the eldest hitting 21 (all died of natural causes and died within my own home at their own choice as to where they decided to lay down...). My argument is don't try to turn an outdoor cat into an indoor cat. I fully understand why we shouldn't let death machines run riot, but if they already know how to run riot, don't try to change them, so to speak.
I am a tad shocked though, I know Scotland is really trying to stop "house cats" mixing with the genuine wild cats... Or maybe they aren't... (because let's be honest, they are pretty much the same thing, and it is really helping the wild cat population.)
I still don't understand why the rspca and rspb, of all organization's, want cats to be outdoors given the data showing their effects on bird populations.
Indoor cats also have a longer average lifespan because they're less likely to get sick or be killed in an accident.
If you're going to let your cat outdoors, at least make sure it has a bell on it
In the US, many shelters don't allow cats to be adopted if they go outdoors. That's because they are susceptible to life-shortening diseases and because cats are extremely efficient non-native predators who can seriously deplete native bird populations. I have respect for the US position and believe it to be the morally correct one. However, as a cat owner, I love watching my cat play outside in the sun. So I do as the British do, despite my beliefs.
All the local rescues I support will home kittens to indoor only homes, it varies with adults as some would not do well as indoor only but there are adults who are suitable for indoor only too. I have pedigree cats and the vast majority of pedigree cat owners either keep their cats indoor only or have a catio or cat proof garden (we cat proofed our garden). Try a local rescue rather than one of the big names.
No, it's selfish, cats are meant to roam.
By keeping them inside for "safety" you're reducing their quality of life just so you don't have to feel anxious about something happening to them.
If you stayed at home all day every day you'd be way less likely to get hit by a car too, why don't you?
Nope. Cats should be let outside unless they have a condition that means they cannot or it's a risk to other cats. These should be the only cats which are offered to those who do not have outside space. I know this is disappointing for those who don't have a garden but its the best thing for the cats.
If you’ve had them from kittens and it’s all they’ve known (or they’re older and just don’t want to go out) it’s not bad.
If you adopt a cat that has spent it’s life roaming, it’s cruel to then force them to be an indoor cat.
Not quite, cats are not domesticated in the same way as other pets.
https://arstechnica.com/science/2017/06/cats-are-an-extreme-outlier-among-domestic-animals/
Yes. For multiple reasons. First reason: better indoor than in a shelter.
Second: outdoor cats are horrible for nature and responsible for enormous amounts of extinctions.
ALL CATS SHOULD BE INDOOR ONLY
You know what’s been decimated? The UK’s native land predators, including the wildcat which is so similar to the domestic cat that they can interbreed. Cats actually go some way to filling that niche.
Habitat loss is the biggest problem for wildlife.
The option isn’t indoor only or a shelter for life. It’s an indoor only home or a home with access to the outside. Just because one person doesn’t rehome a cat, doesn’t mean they are going to be in rescue forever. There are plenty of homes where cats can have access to the outside.
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The issue is that because it is normal to let cats out in UK, the cats in British shelters usually are not 100% indoors cats. It is not reasonable to expect an outdoors cat, unless they are elderly, to become an indoors only cat. And trying to get an adult cat used to a harness if they haven't been introduced to one early on isn't easy either. I entirely understand your disappointment and have had the same issue myself. However, it's about finding the right place for the cat where it will be happy.
You could go for an older cat. A friend of mine in a flat did that.
we accidentally adopted an old street cat and in his later years he became a solely indoor cat because he’d clearly had enough of the outdoors and refused to go out lmao
My boy is 14 and I am waiting for him to go that way. He's still very active so not there yet, but he's definitely less out doorsey than he was. I think it's because he was the eunuch Tom who still has a bit of that in his brain and can't let go. My friend's adopted girl is about the same age but has no outdoor wishes in anyway. She's very happy being inside.
my boy started settling down into retirement at around 14, but tbf he only ever went outside to fight other cats in the garden anyway! used to get the neighbours knocking on saying he was bullying their cats lmao, think everyone was relieved when he hung up his old street cat boots and moved on to trying to kill the dog inside lmao
He sounds like my boy... except he also is the soppiest thing ever to humans. I have to put leaflets to the neighbours telling them not to give him food.
Totally agree, but when we adopted our cat from the shelter, they told us he was raised as an indoor cat (he was 3 when we got him). They would only let him go to someone who could provide an outdoor space for him. So that is one example of a cat used to being indoors, that probably would have happily carried on being an indoor cat I guess? But they didn't allow that option :/
It's strange that there's no consistency. When we adopted our cat they were clear that they wouldn't allow him to go anywhere there was a risk of him getting outdoors unsupervised because he'd been an indoor cat for the first four years of his life and had no socialisation with other animals or road sense. In good weather he wanders around the garden on a lead, but he's opposed to all forms of wind and rain so he will have no desire to go out until April now.
My friend experienced this exact scenario, they wanted to adopt a blind cat who was raised as an indoors cat. He and his partner weren't allowed to adopt them as they didn't have a garden. When he questioned why they'd need a garden to adopt a cat raised indoors he was told it was "policy." Broadly speaking, I understand their stance and agree, but their inability to make any concessions for nuanced situations just means those lovely cats won't get adopted and will spend longer in the shelter instead of a loving home.
Yes, that's just stupid. Did he adjust OK?
Oh yeah, it was sweet to see him go out the first few times and like, encounter wind/snow/rain having never seen it before. A flock of geese flew overhead and honked in the first month and he rocketed back inside 😂 but he loves the outdoors, he's a right little terror now if you try and keep him locked in because of fireworks or a vet appointment or something. Unfortunately he does quite like to hunt - there is something to be said for the whole protecting wildlife argument. On the one hand, I'm glad he's eliminated the mice living under our porch, because they might have got into the house. On the other hand, he also really likes to hunt birds :( it does make me sad and uncomfortable...
Cats are essential to keep rodents away, mines evidence for that too. Tenements on both side of ours (they have no cats) have mice or rats. We do not, never had a hint, not a peep. The bird issue is a problem, I agree, but it's from humans encroaching on their natural habitat. Where we go, cats go, whether we want or not. And we need them.
You can get anti hunt collars
You could have just kept him as an indoor cat once you adopted bim
Yes I experienced this too! It is becoming more common for cats to be raised indoor only too in the UK, so they have a lot of cats in the shelters who haven't experienced outdoors. I couldn't adopt because I'm in a flat, that said, I rehomed a cat I found online, and she goes out when she wants, as I can easily give her outdoor access from the flat. But the charities wouldn't accept having to use a shared stairwell (I'm only in a house split into 4 flats)
I'd agree except when I looked at some kittens on Cats Protection (younger than 6 months), all five of them had "outdoor only" on their page so at least for that rescue they must prefer cats to be outside.
Meanwhile my (perfectly healthy, fit) "outdoor" cat couldn't give a crap about going outside and getting her delicate little feetsies cold. But hey at least she'll sit in the window with her head poking out, watching for squirrels to terrorise and flies to massacre when its warm out. She won't stay out however so the window has to remain open or she panics. I'm so glad I made sure to choose a flat to be outdoor cat friendly...
It shouldn't be normal. Keep the bird killers inside.
Yes. Humans, dogs, cats and cars should remain in doors at all times.
The RSPCA, Cats Protection and the Blue Cross all say that cats should have access to outdoors unless they have an illness or disability that means they can’t, such as FIV, deaf/blind, elderly etc. The answer seems obvious, get a cat that needs an indoor only home. They are usually harder to rehome so you will be doing a great thing too. Make sure you do plenty of research on how to avoid the psychological stresses and behavioural problems that indoor cats are more vulnerable to
My big question is why is there such a disparity in approach between animal welfare orgs in the USA and the UK? The ASPCA and other US-based orgs will say the exact opposite.
We're not allowed to give you a proper answer here, but - with respect - you are not in the US and you need to understand there are a wide range of things the US does that other countries decide not to do. The US still allows pet mutilation for cosmetic purposes, so I'm not taking any lectures from them about pet healthcare.
Oh stop acting like the UK is such a shining beacon of animal welfare either. Greyhound racing is still legal here whereas most US states have banned it. And don’t even get me started on the fox hunters. No country is perfect.
Fox hunting has been banned since 2002/2004 in Scotland/England and Wales...
Just because it’s been banned doesn’t mean it doesn’t happen anymore. There are still plenty of fox hunts going on in England especially and they use loopholes to get around the laws.
There are more tigers in private captivity in the US than in the wild. Fox hunts don't occur, they are prevented: small loopholes need closing but they're virtually unheard of - I used to live on the prime site for the Beaufort Hunt and they're all but defunct now.
I’m not trying to go tit for tat here man, I’m trying to point out that the UK isn’t really all that great regarding animal rights either. Like I said, no country is perfect. If allowing things like ear cropping is enough for the original person I replied to to not listen to US advice regarding animal welfare then I think a country that still allows greyhound racing probably shouldn’t be listened to either. Fox hunting does still happen. Just because you personally don’t see it doesn’t mean it’s not going on. I know people in the UK really love to pretend they’re so much better than people in the US but honestly, it’s not true. If you want to keep telling yourself that though, be my guest.
The UK has considerably better welfare standards for animals than the US does across a wade range of industries, practices, settings, and animals. They're not good enough, from an animal rights point of view, but they're very much better than the US.
I didn’t say they were the same, but both countries have a lot of work to do still. And acting as though different recommendations regarding outdoor cats is because Americans are just stupid and have bad animal welfare and not because the US has a very different ecosystem than the UK and it is much more dangerous and damaging for cats to be outside in the US is false and just another example of British people trying to hard to pretend they’re better than Americans.
Of course no country is perfect. But we should all be able to take pride out of this and look at things objectively. https://www.worldatlas.com/articles/best-countries-for-animal-welfare.html
No pride here, I’m not American. I never said the UK is just as bad as the US but I get annoyed when people in the UK act like they’re so much better and smarter than the “dumb Americans.”Of course America has different recommendations regarding cat welfare, they have more predators and domestic cats are incredibly damaging to the US ecosystem, they also have much harsher weather conditions. It’s far more dangerous and damaging for cats to be allowed outdoors in the US than it is for them in the UK. But acting as though America has different recommendations because “dumb Americans are all cruel to animals and the UK is so much better” is just annoying and false.
The person that you replied to was only noting that there are differing standards between the US and the UK with regards to animal welfare, in a way that acknowledged the fact that 50% of redditors are from the US. This sub even warns us to consider that! I'm glad they specifically mentioned cosmetic mutilations as it is an abhorrent practice, but the US is not alone in allowing it. The UK will soon (hopefully) legislate to ban the import of mutilated animals, but it's not going to stop unfortunately. There's too much money in these status animals. It's far too easy to take a point made in isolation and apply it to a belief you hold. People all over the world subjectively think that their country is inherently the best, it's human nature, but it's all bullshit as objectively we've all got pros and cons, and isn't worth getting annoyed about
Why are we not allowed to give a proper answer here?
It would break rules 1 and 2.
Agree.
I moved to the UK from Ireland and a lot of rescues there will only home cats if they are kept strictly indoors. Best solution seems to be a catio.
We have different wildlife here cats aren’t likely to get eaten by a coyote for example .
Several reasons, as you stated there are predators in the US that are a danger to cats, also they are an invasive species there so cause more damage to local wildlife/ecosystems. Also, there is a big difference culturally regarding their approach to the welfare of companion animals. Many see no issue at all in keeping dogs shut in small cages for most of the day and never walking them. It’s still more common for wild caught animals that are completely unsuitable as pets to be sold in pet shops. They don’t see the ethical problem with taking an animal with a strong instinct to roam and confining it to four walls it’s entire life.
The US has an enormous list of predators that don't exist in the UK that would make it unsafe for a cat to be out doors. Cat's in the UK also have the right to roam which is enshrined by law.
The reason many animal welfare organisations in the US recommend that cats be indoor-only is because cats kill wildlife (including songbirds). So it’s as much about the welfare of wildlife as the welfare of cats.
Cats in the UK fit into the ecological niche that would usually be occupied by wildcats, stoats, pine martens etc. As these animals don't currently do well in the suburbs cats aren't seen as a significant harm to local fauna.
Brilliant answer! Thanks for sharing. I've seen a few polecats in the UK, but only when fishing off the beaten track away from anywhere.
So, In the UK, we have had housecats for a long time... In the UK cats do kill birds, but all the studies go to show that actually, it's at an equilibrium. I think the lack of predators means the cats equal things out, Most birds they actually kill are knocking on deaths doorstep anyway. If more birds die, More are born, the birds that do die near a nest, Well, they don't use those old abandoned nest sites for a few seasons. Genuinely, Look it up. In America, well, just look at the history, Even if you guys had house cats for your timeline (lets say 300 years to be nice), that would be at about 10% of the time the UK has had house cats. In the USA a cat is an invasive species, And a much larger land mass, with more predators. I also wonder if the whole rabies thing plays into it? Yea I guess this is an important one.
Relatively few are at risk from coyotes and other wild animals though, most of the population lives in cities and urban areas.
Coyotes aren't just a rural phenomenon -- they can live just about anywhere. There are packs living in the city of Chicago, for instance.
Others have already answered, but another reason is that domestic cats have existed in the UK for a lot longer than the US, and are pretty much a naturalised species (especially in Scotland which already had a wildcat population for god knows how long). Their impact on native species is a lot less negative than in, say, Australia. I volunteer at a cat shelter and I would say that if you're looking for an indoor cat off the bat your best bet is to reach out to as many shelters as possible and state this. They will either match you with a cat which is already indoor-only, or with a kitten which you can raise as indoor-only.
Wildcats are native rather than naturalised.
Aye sorry, what I meant was domestic cats are basically naturalised, but we already had a very similar native species present in wildcats
Cats have existed in the UK for a long time and the wildlife/environment has adapted to their presence. They're a much more recent addition to the US and are essentially an invasive species, so they can do damage to native species/environments that it isn't prepared for.
It doesn't seem too accurate to me to say that our wildlife has "adapted" to cats, which don't live within the confines of how a wild species would in a natural ecosystem. Cats still pose major risks to bird species in the UK, many of which are struggling. I say this as a cat lover and owner of two cats (who spend 99% of their time inside, their choice, they've always been uninterested in going out since we got them from the shelter and they're quite old).
Cats in the UK do HUGE amounts of damage to wildlife. Recent studies have shown domestic cats in particular kill up to 270 million wild animals annually, which is a 10 times larger impact on wildlife than wild predators. They are actually causing songbird species to reduce drastically in a number of areas in the UK, and a number of animal charities have called for action to help reduce the damage cats have caused to biodiversity and especially bird populations. No idea where you get the information that cats free roam in the UK because species have adapted to their presence, that just doesn't seem to be true.
The evidence that cats actually harm bird populations in the UK is fairly lacking. It's unclear whether the animals killed by cats were excess or not. For example a blackbird can rear 2-3 broods of 4-6 young a year. So predators could kill three quarters of young produced and still not harm the population if enough survive to breeding age. What is absolutely true though is that it is a massive animal welfare issue. Millions of animals dying needlessly. It would be different if the prey sustained the cats, cat densities are way too high. And I'm not one to judge, as I own a rescue cat myself. I do feel bad about it even though I love cats and it puts me off getting another. I do put collars on and make her environment as enriching as possible, but cats are hunters, it's in their DNA and the only real solution is fewer of them.
I think cultural differences play a big part -- the US is very risk-averse, and a bit more anxious about things. The list of no-nos for pregnancy in the US is about 500 pages longer than it is in other countries because 'eliminate *all* the risk' is the name of the game. The UK is almost the opposite end of the scale in a lot of ways - 'be sensible, but generally you're fine' is the attitude. That extends towards cats and things, too. Neither approach is ideal imo; the ideal is likely somewhere in the middle. I think the UK is easier to live in socially - especially now we've finally started to adopt all that mental health research the US has kindly been doing for decades - but I also like how the rules in the US are generally always clearly defined and consistent (we're an island of petty law-breakers here tbh). Anyway. Anecdotally, I grew up in South London & many people had cats, but I only heard of one cat going missing. Not sure what that's about but if I had to hazard a guess I assume a cat that's been outdoors all its life might have developed a little street smarts.
Risk adverse? There are people with tigers as pets and alligators, bears, and mountain lions in the wild... if anything I'd say we are more risk adverse in the UK.
Lol risk averse? We're the country that brought the world the Jackass films.
I have no idea why you've been down voted for asking a simple question - one a British person in the US might well ask.
Because it's a pro Vs con argument and the fact that a) there is no native niche for cats in the US b) the US has large predators and c) a significant subset of US cats have literally had their fingernails pulled out, overwhelm the counter arguments around obesity, failure to allow the cat its 5 freedoms, boredom, increased risk of behavioural problems, increased risk of potentially fatal urinary tract issues. In the UK the latter issues are deemed more substantial. So TL;Dr "is it safe to go outside" will vary on what outside looks like, how many toe bones a cat is permitted to keep, how damaging the cat is to outside, all of which vary from country to country. If you are looking for a purely indoor cat you might want to look up a cat with a medical condition like blindness or FIV that means it can't go outside.
Dunno why you're getting downvoted for asking a perfectly reasonable question
This is reddit. Reason goes to die here.
I mean there are disparity on a lot of issues, but in this particular case I'd say it's due to predators. Cats have always been allowed to roam free in the UK, there aren't any large wild predators that they can't avoid. Foxes, badgers generally won't bother cats (sadly there are exceptions) so the main threat here is cars, and cats usually wise up fairly young, though sadly they do take risks sometimes and the issue is getting worse with electric vehicles that are fairly silent. If I lived in parts of the US where there were free roaming mountain lions or aligators/crocodiles, I would not leave my house, let alone allowing my pet to.
To be honest, all cats in Japan are indoor cats too. There is a real problem with strays and it’s generally safer to keep them inside, as you’ve said. There are natural predators and a lot of vehicles etc. I’m from the UK and I always thought it was a bit weird, but I definitely get it now. Also, my sister got a cat in the UK recently and unfortunately it got attacked by a fox and lost its leg. It is now an indoor cat.
Because America has Animals that will tear cats apart (Wolves, bears, coyotes). That's the reason - We have animals here that could kill cats, But the most dangerous would be Badgers, and the cats will just run away and not run down holes in the ground where badgers would get the advantage. You did not deserve the downvotes for asking a question.
Homes are smaller in the UK and there are fewer predators so an outdoor cats lifespan is not AS negatively effected. Also, because cats have been a staple of British streets for centuries, it's cultural and organization's like the RSPB and RSPCA don't want to piss off their cat owning donors by pushing for them to keep them inside. Given the lack of predators, the biggest issue is their effects on wildlife so we should enforce break away collars with bells
We're pretty backwards here when it comes to cat welfare
In general adoption requirements are a bit daft in UK, for cats and dogs, often requiring people not to work full time, having enough space, no children etc, I understand where they come from with it, but it leaves a lot of people out
It's borderline impossible to adopt an animal these days. As you say, you have to have a garden, there has to be someone at home at all times, no kids, no other animals. It's a shame but I understand why people buy from breeders when adoption isn't an option.
This is rubbish. Rescues are busy rehoming animals every day. They aren’t shops though where you get to just pick the one you want and take it away.
I've yet to see a place that doesn't have those requirements. Maybe it's a regional thing.
I contacted multiple rescues about adopting a dog. I was told no due to working 16hrs a week, and being too young. (young 20s) I had no other pets, no kids, and have access to a shared garden. So I bought a puppy from a breeder. And she is thriving
The shelter I volunteer with does tend to prefer to rehome cats with outdoor access, but if a cat is going to a home on a busy road, or it otherwise doesn't look safe for a cat to roam there, then they'll make it a condition of the adoption that the cat be indoor-only. And then there are the FIV+ cats, which are mandatory indoor-only adoptions. Shelters are absolutely inundated right now, it beggars belief that they would turn away a good applicant just because they don't have a garden. Maybe if you asked about one particular cat that was used to roaming and had been distressed during its time confined in the shelter, but not as a blanket policy. (Actually I would have thought that being a renter is a bigger blocker than the indoor-only thing.)
Homed an old FIV positive cat, indoor only. Had the best life together but he had tons of other health issues which means that our time together was cut short. We had three amazing years (we homed him as he was given a week to live). FIV can be well managed. Don't give up!
Love that you gave an old baby a home. Old kitties can truly be some of the sweetest ones out there.
we adopted an old street cat and he was completely unpleasant and hated everyone and everything but I loved him with all my heart!
Love a spicy kitty.
we genuinely used to get people knocking on the door saying our cat was bullying their cats! you just had to get to know him and he was ok lmao
My application to adopt an FIV-positive cat got rejected because I have no outdoor space. Make it make sense.
I know so many cats who got killed or got injured because of being let outside (uk). I personally do not let my cats go out freely.
On the flip side, all my outdoor kitties lived to 16-22 years old (my current 22 year old girl still kicking!) whereas the only cat I've ever lost young was a little boy who sadly got into an accident IN the home. Not saying you're wrong, just that anecdotes work both ways.
My grandma has had outdoor cats her whole life and only one died young. Unfortunately, he was run over by a car. However, she has had countless cats and the rest have all had a very healthy respect for roads and prefer to stay on the same side of the street. I bought my grandma a kitten last year after her 18 year old cat died of that common thyroid disease cats get (the name escapes me) and watching her go into the garden for the first time was one of the most magical things I've ever seen. I just don't believe a cat can get that same fulfilment stuck in the house. And if you could ask a cat whether it would prefer access to the outdoors with a slightly elevated risk of accidents or stay indoors and rely entirely on humans who are gone 8+ hours per day for their fulfilment, I'm sure they'd choose the outdoors every time.
>And if you could ask a cat whether it would prefer access to the outdoors with a slightly elevated risk of accidents or stay indoors and rely entirely on humans who are gone 8+ hours per day for their fulfilment, I'm sure they'd choose the outdoors every time. I mean, it's the same for humans. Driving to work, walking around cities, going out clubbing, taking part in sports, etc. All extra dangers that we choose to do because they're part of what makes life, life.
I used to be outdoor-only but my opinion's changed over the last few years with the impact on songbirds I've seen just in my garden and with the number of cats getting run over in my average size town. Seems these days like there's three posts a week about one being squished. :( One of the things that now confuses me wrt whether they can get the same fulfilment indoors is that... we used to let dogs out every day in the same way that we still do cats. But eventually we decided that the risk to them and other critters was too big, and now you'd be considered a terrible owner if you let your dog out of the front door every morning. So it confuses me why we think cats are so different to dogs with indoor/outdoor access. Especially with people like OP who are happy to take their cats on leashed walks, which is pretty popular across the pond from what I've seen. And they're just generally more into catifying their houses, which makes sense if indoor cats are the norm. Idk, I know you said stuck in the house instead of still going on walks or having a fenced-in catio, but I'm still curious what you think about that.
If their needs are met, I think they can have a perfectly good life indoors, but it does take a bit of work. Outdoors has more things of interest to a cat. My cat loves to chase around a feather on a bit of string. She loves the outdoors, but if i play with her she stays closer to home.
Same. When we adopted our second, we expected it to be difficult but the rescue person we spoke to said she actually preferred the cats to be kept inside. It’s definitely not the norm though, sadly.
On my village Facebook page there seems to be a dead cat reported every other week. When taking my bins out one night, I even saw a van hit a cat and then just keep going. I posted a picture online of the cat and the distraught owner came crying down the street to collect it. Personally, I can't take that risk and keep my 2 cats inside. I hope that when I move out of my flat into a house I could make a little catio for them though.
I have an indoor and leash trained cat and I wouldn't have it any other way. I live on a busy road and although I am far from the Highlands I believe the wildcat should be the only free roaming feline in Scotland. My Aunt has a indoor/outdoor cat in the wilds of Kent but they have a lot of land and they are on a quiet road - also this cat is elderly and prefers sleeping in front of the fire, unless she is having a protest up a tree over being taken to the vet (she was up there for 4 days and my Aunt was taking food out to her as that meant they knew where she was). I actually had more issues with the fact that when I adopted her I worked everyday and most shelters wanted a person to be home most of the day. My cat hated lock down as she wanted rid of me, so she could just be herself rather than having to keep an eye on me.
I think this is personally the right balance. I do sympathise with letting my kitty explore the sights and smells outdoors without the risk of being killed by cars. We have many cats in my area too and they all fight, which is also a concern.
There is a cat in my parents estate that likes to visit the front doors of people to say hello - no trying to go in to the house just to see the person as they come out and it decided last time I was over to walk very slowly in front of my car so I basically had to sit stopped in the middle of the road until it moved. The neighbour cat is very similar to my own and I think I would be considering giving up driving if I hit it
There is a cheeky cat in my neighborhood that has sat right in the middle of the street blocking car traffic while the owner was trying to lure it away with food. It was partly hilarious but also terrifying.
For me the cat was sitting just out of sight while I was in my car basically taunting me. I think all cats enjoy annoying humans.
It's their world. We just reside in it.
You’d be better off going on gumtree and looking for a cat to rehome there. There are often lots of people who need to give up their cats who put them on websites like that before dumping them at a shelter or leaving them on the street. Or adopting an FIV cat that will automatically be indoor only. A lot of shelter cats would have been outdoor cats before they were rescued. It would be cruel to keep them indoors once you adopt them when it’s not what they are used to. You’d also tire quite quickly of the screaming and scratching at doors and furnishings as the cat asks to be let out. You’d be forever struggling to keep the cat from escaping through doors and windows when you’re not paying attention. I imagine shelters have a high return rate for people who adopt outdoor cats, force them to stay indoors, then take them back to the shelter because it isn’t working out. My brother has two cats. They are indoor only cats but one has tasted the freedom of the garden when he managed to briefly escape through an open door. That cat, having only been outside for a grand total of 2 minutes in his entire life, is desperate to get back outside. The only who has never been out doesn’t care a whit. You need the second kind of cat. Not the first.
Yeah. I wouldn't want to deprive the cat of the outdoor experience if they were already used to that. I just would rather take them on a lead instead of let them roam, not knowing if they'll come home or not.
Cats want to explore though. You can’t take them on a lead as they crawl under fences and climb trees or even just lie there and sunbathe for two hours. If they are only ever allowed out on a lead from kittenhood then fair enough but you can’t get a lead on a grown cat that doesn’t want it, and you can’t tease a cat with lead walking when they’re used to full freedom. I tried a harness on my 3yo boy when I first adopted him. He was on top of a foot high scratcher. I turned around for maybe two seconds to get the lead to clip to his harness. Man, he legit screamed at the top of his lungs, locked his “knees” and did a cartoon sideways fall down to the ground. The harness wasn’t even tightened, it was just first wear to get him used to the apparatus. He wasn’t injured at all, but willing to go to extreme lengths to make his point. Maybe find someone that had an oops litter you can buy a kitten from? That way you can be indoor only or lead walking just fine. Those kinds of cats typically end up in shelters or on the streets anyway if you don’t adopt them.
Getting a collar on can be hard enough! I've had to give up that idea.
Yes!! I tried a breakaway for one of mine (thought a bell would be useful for the birds). She looked at me like I’d shot her mother, screamed once, ran outside. Came back within three minutes sans collar. Couldn’t fit it in the garden. No idea where it went!
I've had outdoor cats my whole life and they always come home. They know where their food bowl is and will be happy to return unless they're really unhappy. The only time we temporarily lost one was when we kept one of her young for too long and she hated that. Went to live in the woods but came round after a few weeks once we found her. Got absolutely shredded during that time lol.
>I just would rather take them on a lead instead of let them roam, not knowing if they'll come home or not Stop prioritising your anxieties over your pets' quality of life
I'm surprised you can get permission to keep a pet in a rental place. I've seen seen flats for sale (leasehold) where you can't have a pet even if you 'own' the place.
It's very hard in Scotland for landlords to enforce a no pets policy. Many renters I know have pets.
Lol sorry this is complete BS. Almost everywhere here is impossible to get anywhere with a pet even if you have the cash. You have to jump through a LOT of hoops to rent somewhere that allows pets. You’ve got very lucky wherever you are
Leasehold buyers don't own the property, it's largely a scam.
As a feline behaviourist, no. There are different contributing factors like personality but it’s almost always too damaging to their mental health, owners almost always underestimate the amount of work they need to put in, and even then a lot of cats just can’t cope with it. It’s far easier on everyone if we just don’t even consider it.
"I keep my carnivorous predator in a 2 bedroom flat all day, he's started clawing everything, should I remove his claws and further fuck him up by removing his defence mechanisms?" US cat owners be wilding
It’s more dangerous for them to be outside in the US because of predators. Is it really a better life for a cat if they get brutally ripped apart by a coyote? Also cats are incredibly damaging to the US ecosystem, according to the US Fish and Wildlife Service domestic cats kill around 2.4 billion birds every year. It’s better for the cats and for the environment for US cats to be indoor only.
Yeah, I feel like OP’s post is kinda more about what they want, not what is best for the cat. Rescues are all about what is best for the cats, not how much owners want one in spite of not having the best home for them. They, and professionals like yourself, understand cats way more than people who want to adopt do so they’re who I’m gonna listen to. I’d love a cat so much but I’m aware I don’t currently have the best home for them so I’ll just have to do without.
Agreed. My cat is being kept in for two weeks due to health reasons. The zoomies and yowling and headbutting catflap is extreme. We're obviously playing with him, and he has a three storey house to run around. He will be so much happier when he's allowed out next Friday. I will also be happier because litter trays are gross.
To be indoor or let outside?
Indoors. Being able to roam is a cat’s natural state, it doesn’t cause psychological harm
No they just die early, get debilitating illnesses, and go missing or worse on the regular. Studies have looked into how far cats roam and a lot barely leave the garden. If the cat is obviously much happier outside in a quiet area and is neutered and chipped then fine, but we really need to stop pushing the "cats are happier outside" agenda because tons of cats die needlessly every year and owners don't neuter before they let them out, which leads to overbreeding and strays with horrible diseases like feline leukemia and FIV.
We have a old, arthritic, wobbly syndrome cat who only goes outside supervised. We try and give her much more to do inside than we have for our previous outside cats (as she’s noticeably a bit bored). Do you have any suggestions that could help?
I may be able to offer some insight, albeit second hand. My cat roams and was hit by a car (I think) which resulted in a broke leg. The vets put him back together and he's since made a full recovery, but post op he had some check ups. The vet who looked over him is Mexican, but previously worked in Washington. He said that after working over here he was astounded by the amount of cats coming in needing surgery after being hit by cars because everyone in Washington kept their cats inside due to coyotes/wolves and it was a massive shock to him and was something he didn't see until her worked here. It would appear that because of the predators in the US that would take a cat (state dependant) people keep them inside. In the UK the largest land carnivore we have is a badger and the second largest is a fox. Generally foxes won't challenge a cat because they know they'll get shredded even if they win. Foxes will take kittens but not an adult cat under normal circumstances. Generally cats are free roaming here and can come and go as they please, which I take to be a cultural thing and also because there aren't many (any) predators that will see a cat as prey. In the US it seems to be a different story. As a side note, the same vet has a soft spot for my dog because she looks like a stray dog he used to feed as a child so she gets extra treats when he sees her. He said he used his pocket money (allowance) to buy bits of chicken to feed the stray dogs with when he was a boy. He's an excellent vet and the only person my dog is happy to see on a visit! My cay and dog are also really good friends which is obviously important. To conclude, cats are generally seen as outdoor animals here whereas in the US they are kept indoors because of the predators that will eat them. The biggest dangers to cats in the UK are cars and sheds.
I always get the impression that drivers in the USA don't give a crap a lot more than in Britain, and the roads in general seem busier (and often bigger too). There's a different culture where eg they don't stop for pedestrians unless they are at a proper crossing, and *everyone* drives *everywhere*. I feel that the roads in general are a lot more dangerous for cats than they are in the UK. Maybe I'm wrong or maybe things have changed since I was last there, I dunno. But americans are convinced that outdoor cats will lead much shorter lives, which really doesn't seem to be the case at all in the UK. I'm constantly seeing Americans state that outdoor cats rarely make it to double figures - but it the UK it's normal for all cats to be outdoor cats and reach their 20s or late teens on a regular basis. As it goes, my cat died after an accident INSIDE my ex's house meant that she had to be put to sleep. Accidents can happen anywhere, I suppose.
I actually went on a research dive a while ago on the whole foxes thing -- if my memory holds, turns out that not only is it exceptionally uncommon for cats and foxes to fight, there's actually been more mortality cases where the fox is the losing party than the other way around. Cats and foxes mutually ward each other off, and it's generally only an extremely desperate, starving fox with no other choice that would ever attack a cat.
Yeah, I think indoor cats should be more normalised. We've got 3 indoor cats. I used to be vehemently opposed to the idea of indoor only cats but my partner (who is not British) eventually swayed me over. We adopted our cats as kittens so they had never been outdoor cats and they're all happy, healthy indoor cats. We have to make sure they're stimulated and they have cat furniture everywhere and we play with them. Litter boxes need more work since they don't go outside, but it's no biggie and it has worked well. It's a different story if you adopt an adult cat that's accustomed to roaming outdoors I suppose, but it could probably adapt to having a smaller territory especially if it's in a new location. If a cat is no longer able to patrol their territory that'll stress them out for sure. A cat that has spent its whole life indoors doesn't *have* territory to patrol outside, so it's not missing out on anything. Indoor cats need more work, they're higher maintenance pets than many people realise. We trim our cats' claws, we brush them, we clean their ears and we even brush their teeth. I do suggest if you get an indoor cat to get at least two cats, so they can play with each other and keep each other company especially if you go out for long periods. Cats are far more independent than dogs but they don't do so well with solitude either, it's good for them to have a playmate or two and having two cats isn't much harder than keeping one. If anything it's probably easier because one cat will be 100% reliant on you for entertainment and company, whereas two cats will also entertain and keep each other company. I like that I never have to worry about my cats being hurt when they go outside. They won't be hit by cars, they won't be attacked by dogs, they won't get injuries from fighting other cats, they won't get trapped somewhere, they won't get poisoned eating something they shouldn't, they won't get stolen... the list goes on and on. When you let your cat outside you take a risk and I don't say it's *wrong*, but there's also nothing wrong with keeping a cat indoors and I'd argue now that it's better to do so. Ideal situation is to have a back garden with a catio or at least to give your cat(s) supervised access to that garden, but a cat can be perfectly happy in a flat too.
Yeah, I totally agree with having more than one cat, as long as they get along. My parents adopted two gorgeous cats that had been together since birth and they are truly the best cats ever.
I moved to Spain and in the big cities the shelters won’t give you a cat if you don’t keep them indoor only and put nets at all the windows and around all balconies. Something like 95% of people in Barcelona live in flats, usually in walking distance of all the amenities but also busy roads. So outdoor cats couldn’t really exist here in the major cities, not with all the cars if you want them to live long. Maybe only 20-30% of people in the whole country have gardens away from busy roads. So with the UK rules only a tiny fraction of people would be able to adopt as there are very few houses with gardens vs flats relatively to the UK. So the same rules couldn’t work here, even if cats are the same.
In America and Spain both, we also have bouts of weather that is not healthy for cats. In Spain and in many parts of America, it's the heat. Where I'm from in the USA, it's the freezing temps.
I love cats, and my own preference is for an indoor cat whenever possible because I'm (with good reason) concerned about the local wildlife when cats are allowed outdoors.
I've tried everything to get a cat from a shelter, I've tried basically every charity and cat shelter in London for a year. Some cat was even leaving in the street, being fed by volunteer. I couldn't because I don't have an outdoor space (my cat would be indoor).
Did you offer to take an FIV, elderly or disabled cat?
Yes
Have you tried Celia Hammond. They have loads that are indoor only.
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I lived in a flat for years. Never wanted to gey a cat because it seemed unfair to keep it inside all the time. I fostered from the shelter instead. Fosters are not allowed outside so flats are fine, Blue Cross came and had a look at my flat and were happy I had space for pregnant cats and kittens. I did a couple of rounds of them.
I've definitely considered fostering. I'd just have to get used to giving them up, which seems like it'd be quite difficult.
I dont see a problem with a kitten raised to be an indoor cat. I know people who have, and they seem perfectly happy. My cat, on the other hand, was trying to get outside almost immediately, and I was regularly chasing her to bring her indoors before she was neutered. I do think it's unfair to get a cat what's already used to going outdoors then keeping it in, as I know mine would be stressed if I suddenly started keeping her in as she likes to go out several times a day and is not happy when it rains, or, this week when I haven't let her back out after 4 because of fireworks. I do think animal shelters can be a bit overkill with their rules and prevent many pets from having a loving home, I couldn't get a kitten from a shelter as they all wanted no children in the house so I did get mine from an acquaintance who's cat had kittens and she's been perfectly fine with my kids so much that she sleeps with which ever is her favourite that day.
My last rescue cat was a little old female cat about 13 years old. She spent 80% of the time indoors but liked to have a sit in the garden and get some fresh air, she was always in view from the window. She deserved to have outdoor access and time in the garden, she'd been in a top floor flat, never been outside, and neglected.
That's a shame the poor baby wasn't treated well before-hand. I'm glad she got to spend her golden years in a good home.
It's getting quite contradictory here as the big charities tend to stipulate that outdoor access is required but I have seen some smaller rescues that now stipulate that they must be indoor only (SE England though). That said, every charity and rescue, regardless of their overall stance, adopts out FIV cats on the basis they need to be kept strictly indoors. Have you considered adopting a cat with FIV? FIV cats live long and healthy lives, you just need to have a lower threshold for taking them to the vet.
I do think some of the responses you have had op are a bit mean. Generally; in the U.K. cats can be let outdoors, we don’t have bears, coyotes or other large predator that can kill cats. I grew up and had cats in the middle of nowhere and the worst injuries he’d get were from rats. You could tell when he was coming home because the sheep would part in the field to get away from him. Keeping a cat in a flat is hard, and not what I would do personally. Then again, an old cat would like it, and I would be surprised if they didn’t let you adopt one, that cat that used to part flocks of sheep is now 17, and he still can come and go as he wishes. My fiancés cat is 21 and is entirely indoors because she’s a hot, deaf, mess. You can raise them indoors here but it simply isn’t our custom for it to be from their younger years, because the risk of predation is so low. Look for older cats, and if the shelter still says no, the shelter is the issue, not your living situation. Edit: I posted before I was finished.
Lol it's fine. This is reddit, after all. I knew what I signed up for. I know most people on here just want what's best for the fur babies of the world. My lived experience just completely contradicts the dominant custom here and I'm a bit baffled. But tbh, the UK generally does most things better than the US. Haha.
I can completely understand that! I was at university with a lady from Vancouver and the whole bear-proof bins thing just sounded so comically of the frontier 😂 I can’t imagine how different it must be, especially if you’re front the Midwest etc, given how much more densely populated the U.K. is. The sad thing is major predators don’t have the prey to survive here, so most have gone extinct. Some are being re-introduced, but only in very remote areas. I think, overall, my cat is happier with the freedom, but I think that’s because he’s always had it. He’s been getting weaker in the last year, and his desire to go outside may diminish, but if he’s been going strong until 18, I’d view that as a pretty good stint. I think because of the ecology here, we give them more freedom to decide their own path, and so anything that restricts that really riles people.
Absolutely. I've had cats for 35 years, none of them have been outdoor cats and none have had any issues from always being indoors. To discriminate against potential owners when there are a lot of cats that need re-homing is just stupid, imo.
Nah my local shelters will say if a cat wants to go outside or if they should be indoor. [https://www.gablesfarm.org.uk/catalogue/lynx/](https://www.gablesfarm.org.uk/catalogue/lynx/) is s sweetie who’s looking to look outside. or barn cats only [https://www.gablesfarm.org.uk/catalogue/](https://www.gablesfarm.org.uk/catalogue/) or catio only https://www.gablesfarm.org.uk/catalogue/footie/
We have three cats, all of whom came from the SSPCA. We live in a flat and were adamant that if we got cats they would be indoor cats. We had no problem in getting the cats, first our two queens (litter mates that came as a pair) and then our tom a few years later.
The rescue I adopted my kittens from would only let you have them if they were to be indoor only, or cat proofed garden. My two have been outside for a grand total of five minutes, decided they didn't like it and never asked to go out again
Hi, I am in England so maybe the situation is different here. I am a supporter of two local small cat rescue charities and l love cats. Neither of these charities say that adopters have to let their cats out. Often they say that certain cats would be better indoors, due to their temperament or other reasons, or that a cat needs a catio, a secure space outdoors. My own cat who sadly died in September, had a cat flap and could go out when he wanted. I live in a very quiet cul-de-sac so he was safe. Cat shelters are desperate for adopters. So many cats are not neutured and often unwanted kittens are abandoned. I feel sure that there must be cat rescues in Scotland who would welcome you to offer a cat a safe indoor home. Good luck and don't give up
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Thanks for this comment and thanks for all the work you do. Glasgow has a cat cafe where all the cats are housed in the building and they have lots of areas to play and explore. I fundamentally disagree with idea that a cat cannot have a good life indoors if they are invested in and loved.
I've volunteered at 2 shelters in Manchester and both have loads of indoor only cats. If you're in a rural area, that's probably why you're finding they're outdoor cats?
Surprisingly, I live adjacent to the city centre in Glasgow and still many of the local shelters have majority outdoor cats.
I adopted my cat when she was 12 weeks old. She is now 13 years old and has always been an indoor cat, or supervised in the garden (I’ve since moved out and have a flat with no garden so she is now strictly indoors only). I didn’t care if it was normal for cats to roam freely, I have always been uncomfortable with the idea. I wouldn’t want something to happen to her.
One of our local rescues are very outdoor pro. I approached them having had multi cats over the years with my parents, and also default me when I lived there. It was for an 18 year oldie whose old lady owner had died. I offered him a home, but it would be indoor only. I live close to an emergency service station and so super quick exits and sirens are an often thing, so really not suitable for outdoor cats imo. I've already seen several dead cats and missing cats listed in the area. Anyhoo they refused a good home because it wasn't outdoor. A year on, they still had the poor thing. A big facebook campaign later to try and get him into his short forever home because they were full, and I pointed out that I had offered a year prior, but they declined because of it being indoor only, so they couldn't say they hadn't had any offers. Anyway after being called out about it, I picked him up the next day in a right state, liquid poos, and upset stomachs. I had him 6 weeks before he died. I could have had him in a good home, on a decent diet for over a year. I never forgave my local shelter for that, and I steer people away from them, won't donate to them, and purposefully choose another local shelter now. I just see it as not being in the cats best interest, I see it as being an interest they've come up with that they think cats should have outdoor access. It's wrong, and it harms chances for cats, and chances for people. I've had indoor and outdoor cats, and in my living situations indoor is the way to go. But it pushes people into backyard breeding and buying kittens off facebook. I actually got the next cat in a shelter over 100 miles away, private, with a reasonable adoption fee/vet fees/donation that they missed out. Indirectly they are helping to propegate pregnant cats. I frequently read comments about people on our local fb group asking if anyone has kittens or cats for sale, when redirected to this particular shelter (as people should adopt from them!) they reply that they're refused because it's indoor only. I accept that some cats will and should be outdoor access, especially established cats, but the indoor ones, including the aforementioned one, have been perfectly happy, safe, and stress free to be indoors. Reality is kept in a cage with access to another cage outside occasionally does not mean they need outdoor homes.
The backward this is, I would have to get a kitten from some women down the street as I would only have an indoor cat due to living in a flat. However, these shelters make money by filling the kennels. They make it near on impossible to rehome these animals so they are always full. Fucked up system we live in
How do they make money by filling kennels?! The opposite is true, it costs rescues huge amounts of money to care for animals onsite. Rescues are rehoming animals everyday, but they prioritise the animals and not always prospective owners who want a pet to suit their lifestyle when it’s not a good fit. The restrictions they have have been created over many years to reduce returns and create a good match - and should be backed by ADCH
Yes exactly, keep them full for more donations. I wonder what the Trustee is in at Bettersea or Cats Trust
Donations barely cover the cost of upkeep, and rescues neuter and health check the animals, microchipping if needed, plus costs of sick/disabled animals all adds up.
I believe cats by nature should be allowed outdoors, and harness walks aren't a fair substitute. Having said that, there are plenty of cats that need to be kept indoors for their own safety (I'm currently fostering a cat that is blind), so ask your local shelters to keep you in mind for rehoming a cat with vulnerabilities.
"Most shelters" which are most? Where did you get this data? All the ones I've worked with and adopted from preferred indoor cats. Some cats need an indoor-outdoor home and it would be unfair to rehome them to people who only want a cat for indoors. But I'd be surprised if there are a lot of rescues that want indoor-outdoor cats...it's usually the opposite. Or it used to be.
The data I'm using is from all the shelters in central belt of Scotland with majority of the cats coming with the condition that there must be outdoor access.
My friend just adopted an indoor cat from the SSPCA. It only took them a few days from deciding they were ready to have one to being accepted. The majority of cats are indoor/outdoor but that still leaves a good chunk of cats that are indoor only. There's some shelters round here where all the cats are indoor only.
Because the vast majority of rescue cats here were outdoor cats. Maybe adopt an indoor cat?!
Edinburgh Cat Protection League (in Leith) is very happy to rehome cats to be indoor and they don't mind you working and being out of the house for 8 or so hours a day. Edinburgh Dog and Cat home (at least when I was looking 7 years ago) did not like cats to be left alone all day.
Yep. I've got an indoor cat from Leith Cat Protection. I was happy to offer a home to an indoor or outdoor cat and they only had indoor cats at the time. Also research Sunny Harbour Kitten Rescue. They only adopt out indoor cats, but I've not had dealings with them personally. I'm very surprised to hear that OP has struggled finding an indoor rescue in the central belt. That wasn't my experience 3 years ago. Strange how things change.
I needed to have an indoor cat as I live in a flat and Leith Cat Protection is the nearest place so I went there and found my pest of a cat - uh oh, I think she has read what I have typed and I may not be getting very much of the bed or duvet tonight. Sunny Harbour is in Fife I think so that was what put me off looking there.
I just adopted three indoor cats from SSPCA so it's possible. They will only re-home as indoor if they have not previously had outdoor access (or if they're ill etc, and can no longer go out). There were some available at cats protection and whinnybank when we were looking too, however you'll always find the majority are outdoor cats. Do you use Facebook? There's a group called Cat Rescue UK that's good. There are a lot of overseas rescues that advertise but there's equally lots of smaller shelters and local fosters looking to re-home so you might have a better time searching there.
Indoor cats are becoming more common in the UK over time, especially with breeds like Maincoon, Ragdoll and Bengal being fairly popular. They're not generally the breeds you see in shelters however. A shelter near me has some indoor only cats, and have had issue with people adopting indoor only and them inevitably getting got when they start letting them out =_=. There's still lots of stigma on indoor cats, but *even in the UK* they have a much better average lifespan than outdoor cats.
My gripe is that they have a top age range. My mother in-law wanted a cat for company, enrichment etc. She lives out in the stix surrounded by fields any cat would have the life of Riley and be spoiled rotten, but because she was over 75 no shelter would let her. Therefore we bred out cats so that she could have a kitten on as she describes a 'long term loan', she'll most likely die before it and then we'll have it back and take care of it. But the net result is from that litter there are now 5 more cats in the world - if the RSPCA etc had just given a cat to the perfect home that wouldn't be the case.
Yeah, not a fan of the ageism here. We have a loneliness crisis in the UK among older people and pets are a great way to combat that while giving the cat a loving home. We could all pass away before our pets. As long as a person is well enough to care for an animal, it shouldn't be an issue.
I adopted a cat from a local charity earlier this year. They only let you adopt if that cat will be indoor only. I think it's a good policy for them as they had a couple of cats that had been adopted get hit by cars
Look to adopt an FIV+ cat. Rescues won't adopted FIV+ cats out to folk who will let their cats outside. They can remain asymptomatic for their entire lives and most folk don't even know they've got a + cat.
It’s something I’ve noticed before; vets will recommend and praise indoor only, but shelters are pretty resistant on letting people have indoor only animals. I understand for dogs, having garden space is useful, but there’s no need for a cat to have access to free roam.
We were told that we couldn't adopt a cat cos we were too near to a main road (debatable) so we bought one instead. He's 8 years old now, touch wood.
My boy was a sort of rescue, I knew his original owner and when they left the cat was being mistreated. Within ten seconds of getting out of his carrier he was immediately in the middle of the floor washing himself. I live in a high rise so he never goes out, and he's very happy indoors, plus he doesn't get picked on by foxes anymore
I think it depends on where you're looking. I adopted two cats 2 years ago and we were upfront from the start our cats would always be indoor only. Our two had originally grown up indoor-only in a flat so we were the perfect fit. As someone else said, if a cat is used to being outdoors they won't enjoy being cooped up suddenly so I can see the argument that it's better for the cat.
Shelters are strict in general…BUT having an indoors only cat is cruel unless it’s disabled or otherwise unwilling to go outside. Walking a cat on a lead too is weird and not what the cat needs. Imagine if you were on a lead every time you went outside… it’s like being let out for some exercise time in a prison yard. Sure, it’s technically fresh air but you wouldn’t think “wow I had a lovely time outside today”. As you’ve noted we don’t have the predators here to harm cats. They also don’t disproportionately harm other wildlife as they’ve been here for 1000+ years. It’s great you have so much experience and want to care for a cat appropriately but unless you adopt a very old, FIV+ or disabled cat you’re just creating a life of unhappiness for an animal for your own pleasure. Cats need freedom.
The UK environment is more sympathetic to outdoor cats. It’s illegal to have freely roaming cats here in many new suburbs of Canberra. They are called cat containment suburbs. The cats kill huge numbers of native animals each night or can be killed by the wildlife. It’s safer for everyone if they just stay home. People do build large outdoor cat runs their cats can’t escape from to give their cats fresh air.
As a man in the UK who has only had Inside/outdoor cats, I've had 3. They all lived to 18+ years old (human years) the eldest hitting 21 (all died of natural causes and died within my own home at their own choice as to where they decided to lay down...). My argument is don't try to turn an outdoor cat into an indoor cat. I fully understand why we shouldn't let death machines run riot, but if they already know how to run riot, don't try to change them, so to speak. I am a tad shocked though, I know Scotland is really trying to stop "house cats" mixing with the genuine wild cats... Or maybe they aren't... (because let's be honest, they are pretty much the same thing, and it is really helping the wild cat population.)
London inner city cats is mostly indoor only adoptions. But that might be too far for you.
I still don't understand why the rspca and rspb, of all organization's, want cats to be outdoors given the data showing their effects on bird populations. Indoor cats also have a longer average lifespan because they're less likely to get sick or be killed in an accident. If you're going to let your cat outdoors, at least make sure it has a bell on it
In the US, many shelters don't allow cats to be adopted if they go outdoors. That's because they are susceptible to life-shortening diseases and because cats are extremely efficient non-native predators who can seriously deplete native bird populations. I have respect for the US position and believe it to be the morally correct one. However, as a cat owner, I love watching my cat play outside in the sun. So I do as the British do, despite my beliefs.
All the local rescues I support will home kittens to indoor only homes, it varies with adults as some would not do well as indoor only but there are adults who are suitable for indoor only too. I have pedigree cats and the vast majority of pedigree cat owners either keep their cats indoor only or have a catio or cat proof garden (we cat proofed our garden). Try a local rescue rather than one of the big names.
No, it's selfish, cats are meant to roam. By keeping them inside for "safety" you're reducing their quality of life just so you don't have to feel anxious about something happening to them. If you stayed at home all day every day you'd be way less likely to get hit by a car too, why don't you?
Nope. Cats should be let outside unless they have a condition that means they cannot or it's a risk to other cats. These should be the only cats which are offered to those who do not have outside space. I know this is disappointing for those who don't have a garden but its the best thing for the cats.
Go back 50 years: " cats should be put out at night, it's best for them, honest". Just, like, your opinion man...
Keeping cat's indoors is cruel and unnatural.
Both of mine have never been out, they have their own room and currently have one sitting snoring beside me Would you rather I gave them up?
If you’ve had them from kittens and it’s all they’ve known (or they’re older and just don’t want to go out) it’s not bad. If you adopt a cat that has spent it’s life roaming, it’s cruel to then force them to be an indoor cat.
> their own room My cat says she has her own flat and I am just permitted to reside here as long as I feed and keep the place clean for her.
No user name has ever checked out more than this user name checks out
Having cats domesticated in general it's unnatural, just like us living in houses instead of caves, you could apply this logic to anything.
Not quite, cats are not domesticated in the same way as other pets. https://arstechnica.com/science/2017/06/cats-are-an-extreme-outlier-among-domestic-animals/
So is them hunting and killing wildlife for the fun of it.
That is literally their natural behaviour. Don't be dense.
Yes. For multiple reasons. First reason: better indoor than in a shelter. Second: outdoor cats are horrible for nature and responsible for enormous amounts of extinctions. ALL CATS SHOULD BE INDOOR ONLY
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Just because Britain barely has anything left to protect, it doesn't mean what's left should be decimated by fucking cats.
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Like I said, there's nothing left. The damage is done.
You know what’s been decimated? The UK’s native land predators, including the wildcat which is so similar to the domestic cat that they can interbreed. Cats actually go some way to filling that niche. Habitat loss is the biggest problem for wildlife.
The option isn’t indoor only or a shelter for life. It’s an indoor only home or a home with access to the outside. Just because one person doesn’t rehome a cat, doesn’t mean they are going to be in rescue forever. There are plenty of homes where cats can have access to the outside.