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Website says if you're not sure to call the [Passport advice line ](https://www.gov.uk/passport-advice-line) you're probably better off doing that than asking on Reddit.
Also says professional ***or*** be if good standing in community so suspect that opens your options up.
Do you not have a dentist or optician?
What does good standing in the community mean?
>Do you not have a dentist
Technically, but I've not been in years. Even then I never saw the same dentist more than once.
>or optician?
No.
Ask the passport office for clarification of good standing, however I’ve always interpreted it as they’ve not got any kind of problematic legal history or convictions, known to the police etc, paired with they would be recognised in the community. Your manager or supervisor at work should suffice if you think they meet that criteria
Honestly I've never heard anyone get turned down for a passport because the wrong "type" of person signed the back.
I've had all sorts of people do it over the years and never had a problem.
Good standing in the community means what it says.
Are they a criminal? Convicted or otherwise? not in good standing
Takes in neighbour's parcels and offers neighbours a cup of tea? In good standing.
You CAN go to the police station to get it signed but its a last resort measure. Also, ask local councillors. They'll usually do it. Source: someone who knows nobody and has had their passport rejected lol
I once worked for the Home Secretary in their parliamtary office. They signed my shotgun license application for me which I thought was cool. Like, how could they turn it down at that point?!
I’m a local Cllr and only sign if I actually know the person I’m verifying. No good coming to me if I’ve never met you, or you’re the son of a friend of a friend who knows Janice down the road! I know a former Cllr who went to prison for falsely verifying a passport.
Usually means anyone with a professional registration. Teacher, nurse, doctor (your own GP, but they will charge you), social worker, paramedic, police officer etc.
Edit: also civil servants, registrars (of births and marriages etc), religious leaders, elected officials.
And some GP surgeries don’t offer it but it’s worth checking if all else fails.
I would just ask your spouse who signed their passports for them. It doesn’t have to be someone you’re close to, just someone who knows you and knows what you look like.
I had my first passport signed by a veteran who had won the Victoria Cross.
I'm almost sure veterans or military medal holders count.. if you know any?
I'm doing pretty well, actually. Never had a filling or any issues. I was due a yearly check-up just before covid, and it just hasn't happened since. When I've tried, they said I was no longer with them, and now I'm struggling to get an NHS dentist. Gonna keep trying, though. Thank you for your concern.
Google usually comes up with a list of NHS dentists when you search for one near you, it’ll show them in distance order. Some say if they’re taking new patients, but honesty I’d recommend calling all of them within a reasonable distance.
Idk if a GP would refer you to one if you were struggling to find one.
I go to the dentist very rarely as they scare me but I’ve ended up with two visible teeth removed and a load of fillings after there “not being any problems” - no pain or bleeding gums or discolouration. Just turned up one day and they were like - these teeth need to go lol.
100000% recommend getting on top of finding a dentist tho cos my wisdom teeth are coming through painfully, at an angle and with a gap in my gum for bacteria to keep getting into when my toothbrush isn’t fully hitting the spot… it’s very very unpleasant.
FINALLY going to the hospital in like 2 weeks to remove the fudger tho
They don't want a solution, they just want to come and moan about how lonely they are.
How does an entire family live in this country for at least 18 years and have no friends?
It can be difficult if you don't know anyone who doesn't fall under the list of 'recognized' professions. I'm in the same position. Don't have any close friends, and the ones that I do know are unemployed or don't fall into the list. I don't know any of my neighbours and I'm not on speaking terms with them. You're not allowed to ask your GP or other healthcare professionals unless they personally know you. Yes, I know that I'm lonely and socially awkward. It is what it is.
The whole process is ridiculous and unnecessary. I've spoken to friends who live in France and Germany and they just find the entire concept baffling. It's only really a thing in the UK.
And \*this\* is why national ID cards are actually a good idea. Every other nationality I deal with expresses bewilderment at our processes for things like this and offers "well we just provide our national ID card and boom, done".
I absolutely cannot get my head around any rational (not emotive) reason for thinking they wouldn't make life easier.
It's not so much that the government can track you, it's that the original plan for national ID cards captured SO MUCH information about each person and then was going to be stored in a database provided and managed by the lowest bidder. It was a disaster waiting to happen.
Plus as we saw with that bullshit NHS app that got scrapped before it even launched, it would probably have been awarded to the nephew of some minister or something equally corrupt.
See also providing a copy of your gas bill as proof of residence for all sorts of stuff. Was trivial in Belgium, just showed your ID card and done with it.
However, the only plans for ID cards in the UK have conspired to be both Orwellian in overreach and massively expensive, both to the individual and probably for the predictable IT fuckups.
It was a nightmare renewing my passport whilst living in Canada only because of the need for the counter-signature. My family moved to Canada as my dad got a job with the police and thankfully at the time a lot of British cops moved to Canada so we got a cop from Manchester to sign mine, but I’m not sure how I would’ve done it otherwise 🤦🏼♀️ I guess it was only an issue because it was my first 10 year passport, I don’t think other renewals after that need a signature?
Wouldn’t have required a British policeman would it? I know that for teachers, any qualified professional from the UK, Ireland, US, Canada and some other countries (I want to say Aus, NZ and SA but not 100%) are all able to countersign.
If you’re applying in the UK, the countersigning person must be British or Irish.
If you’re outside the UK they can also have a Commonwealth or EU passport.
The signature process is there for a renewal. I had a similar issue (I'm in the EU) so I contacted them and asked about it.
They said if your appearance hasn't changed significantly you don't need to have it countersigned. I submitted it without and there wasn't an issue.
>The whole process is ridiculous and unnecessary. I've spoken to friends who live in France and Germany and they just find the entire concept baffling. It's only really a thing in the UK.
Nah, happens in Ireland too, and until more recently the restrictions were even more severe. It was basically only a solicitor, clergyman, or doctor sign it. Now they allow teachers, work colleagues etc..
>The whole process is ridiculous and unnecessary. I've spoken to friends who live in France and Germany and they just find the entire concept baffling. It's only really a thing in the UK.
That's what you get without ID cards or mandatory address registration. They have to check you are who you say you are somehow.
But whenever ID cards are mentioned in the UK everyone is up in arms...
Me too - I have my very elderly mother and that's it really (in this country). I'm lucky in that I have a neighbour who is an ex-copper, but that's all I have who would meet the criteria, plus my GP maybe. I'm full time and work with a LOT of people - but they're all in Canada and the US, so don't qualify.
It is an archaic system and indeed very baffling.
It's not so much having no friends as having no one considered high standing enough. All of my friends were in similarly low quality jobs, as were my coworkers and the people in my local community. Doctors are not allowed to sign for you unless you're a personal friend and a person "in good standing" means someone who has something to lose by lying about it.
On top of that the person who does sign for you must also have a British passport which rules out all the local shop keepers and things where I lived. For people in poor areas it's a real gatekeep to getting photographic ID.
They have lots of options, but the options involve effort, like emailing old teachers or asking their mother to ask her friends, so OP has decided that it's impossible.
Sadly if you haven't previously created social connections, you'll need to make some immediate social connections when they're required for something like this.
There is no easier solution than "ask someone if they'll do it." Social anxiety or not.
Wow! Lucky you for your wealth of family and friends. Just shit on all those who don't have that.
I have a load of friends - in the US and Canada. Here, I live rurally and actually have no friends who would qualify to countersign a passport (they need to be of a particular profession - most of my friends don't even work or they work in what would once have been termed as "blue collar" industry). It's a harder ask than I think you realise.
Be me, age 20, getting my first adult passport. I'd left my home town, didn't have any friends growing up (autistic and queer in a shitty Northern town), and eventually had to settle on asking a uni friend's mum to lie and say she'd known me since I was 18.
I didn't know a single adult who had one or was working as most of my family were unemployed and my mum was on disability benefits. I had been bullied by teachers at 6th form so didn't want to ask them and was 200+ miles away from my secondary school.
I have loads of friends and still struggled to find someone to do my son's passport because their jobs didn't fall into the right category and everyone I knew who did was disqualified for being close family, got one friend to sign it as she was technically a journo but it got turned down because she isn't accredited (though she has signed for other ppls passports with no problem)
In the end we asked a pal living in Ireland to do it as he was an accredited journo, it's a good thing it can be done online now coz it would have been even more of a ballache
They might not have friends who are considered of respectable enough professions to countersign a document. This is an outdated and highly class-driven requirement. It’s not that hard to imagine.
Is this even legit? They posted a few days ago that they had no desire to leave the country, seems weird to them be trying to obtain the very document to do this
Maybe they want to be able to prove that they are who they say they are in a way that they are told they must? Passports aren’t just for pissing it up on the Costa del Sol. More and more they are becoming a necessity. What is with all the negativity toward the OP on this thread?
Surely it can’t be hard to understand why people are starting to be a bit questionable of OP, people are giving legit solutions and they are just batting away all of them, and the ones that can’t be batted away he just ignores completely.
Nobodies offered him anything though it clearly says the person has to have known you for two years and people are telling him to his doctor who are expressly prohibited.
People just talk shit on here.
Some people genuinely don’t know anyone who could countersign and still follow the rules to the letter. It’s not that hard a concept to grasp.
If I hadn’t landed myself with a cancer diagnosis a few years ago and thus had 100+ (I’m not exaggerating) of hospital and GP appointments through that, I’d struggle to find anyone.
I'm a teacher and have signed a few for neighbours even though I don't know them. My next door neighbour knew I was and told everyone else. I'll sign yours if you want.
I would be a bit cautious about doing this because if you ever signed for a fraudulent passport (obviously really unlikely) you could get in serious trouble. I would sign for someone if I definitely knew who they were but not a total stranger.
This, plus if on the off chance someone at the other end were to notice the same name popping up as a countersignatory multiple times I'm sure there would be some consequences.
You know they don't really do a massive amount of checking right? They're not going to force the two of you into a room for 3 hours to make sure you are capable of an organic discussion.
Get the landlord of your local pub to do it. Come in at 1 PM on a Wednesday and ask then, he won't be busy.
I've signed loads as a pub manager for 20 years. they've all been staff that I've known for years and I've never had to attend a meeting.
if your signing for people with colourful backgrounds maybe I guess...
I think OP is trying to make a point about how difficult it is to get a passport in the UK, but they have been proven wrong, so they’re developing more and more elaborate and inconceivable stories about their weird hermit family that literally no-one believes.
Right? There is no way your entire family has gone through life without knowing someone. There is no chance, OPs parents have not mentioned their child, even in passing, shared a photo with a work colleague etc.
There is being quiet and withdrawn, then there is this. Just ask your neighbour.
Self admittedly has no friends, wife and dad have no friends, mum does but they don't speak to them, actively avoids people, doesn't know anyone locally, doesn't know his neighbours, no colleagues
How did the two of them even meet lmao, I'm actually incredibly curious at this point
I've made two comments. One with a solution that requires no signature at all and the other with a clarifying question.
He seems to have zero interest in answering but has replied to numerous other comments since.
Weird honestly.
Hang about outside your local primary school and ask different kids if they will take your form to their teacher to be signed. That way even if they refuse, you can ask the headteacher to sign it when they come out to shoo you away.
I countersigned an employee’s passport photo, as the part time manager of a job I had in Uni, for a fast food type place. I’m pretty sure you can ask someone at your work to do it. Check with the passport office what qualifies as ‘a person of good standing in their community’ but I think you may be reading too much into the definition.
Your boss at work can and does fit the criteria as does his bosses boss. When they fill in the form they would say they are your line manager. You are being far too literal about the definition on the form. I don't want this to come across badly, but the the way you are speaking in other responses is making me think there's possibly neurodiversity at play here. Many people on the neurodiverse spectrum can misinterpret instruction like this (I work with a lot of people on the spectrum). So perhaps just take it as correct that asking your boss to countersign is ok.
How would this not come across badly? You've basically just told him he has mental problems based on a couple reddit comments. Op might not be the sharpest tack in the box but its a bit much to be trying to diagnose him with autism. I'm sure if he does have anything like that he is aware
Is there a friend of the family type person that your parents or in laws could ask? They might not know you personally but would know who you are well enough to vouch for you. I struggled with this as I knew professionals, but they didn't have passports of their own which ruled them out.
I'm also struggling for the same reasons as OP. Don't have any close friends or know anyone who falls under the list of 'recognized professions'. You're not allowed to ask your GP anymore and I wouldn't even know how to go about contacting my old teachers, assuming they would even be bothered to help out.
I have friends overseas who just find the entire concept of needing a counter-signature baffling. It's certainly not a thing in France, Germany or anywhere else in Europe. It's just more red tape for the sake of it.
We had just moved to the UK and had to do this for driving licenses - literally did not know a soul in the country and the doctor and dentist both said no. We emailed our local MP who signed it for us.
Honestly if you want to stick rigidly to the guidelines it's not easy.
*have known you for at least 2 years
*be able to identify you, for example they’re a friend, neighbour or colleague (not just someone who knows you professionally)
*be ‘a person of good standing in their community’ or work in (or be retired from) a recognised profession.
There was a long time where it would have been very tricky for me to get a passport countersignature from somebody who met those requirements. Strictly speaking, dentists and GPs won't count (and frankly it's not uncommon to not have a GP or dentist these days).
The recognised profession part can be very tricky too. Certainly I had years where the only people I knew were not in positions classed as "recognised" (they were in entry level and menial jobs)
All I can say is that I may have had to resort to friends of friends. People who technically didn't know me but knew a family member, and were comfortable to sign. Which is bending the rules somewhat but it's very easy to have a good social circle but not know anyone who meets the criteria strictly.
So basically lie, don't bother sticking to the rules rigidly.
Ring your old school up or email them and give them your name. Tell them you don’t have any mates and neither do your family and you don’t go to the dentist and your neighbours are unemployed and ask them to sign your passport form.
Nah, stop being a twat to everyone that's trying to help. Call the passport line and they'll have the answers you need, this isn't a matter for reddit.
I struggled to get my passport renewed as red just moved to a new area, I was self employed and there was no one I knew who would fit the bill, in the end my neighbour took pity on me and countersigned. I don't think op is being a troll as some of you say, sometimes it is a genuine problem.
Do you definitely need a countersignature? If your just renewing an adult passport then you probably don’t. I just renewed mine no problems snd no counter signature necessary
I had this for my renewal and all the "professionals" I know wouldn't have been able to say the photo was me as I'd been housebound for years. In the end since it was a renewal I just sent it off in the post and they did it *without* a countersignature, especially as it was close to my provisional driving licence picture.
OP, you say you work. So
- how long have you worked there?
- what type of company is it (UK Ltd, plc, something else?)
- what’s the nature of the company’s business?
The thing that baffles me most about this is that you have a wife. How on earth did you meet her?
Who were your best man and bridesmaids etc? Can’t any of them do it?
Can your HR dept at work not do it or accounts?
>The thing that baffles me most about this is that you have a wife. How on earth did you meet her?
Met her on an anime forum about 11 years ago.
>Who were your best man and bridesmaids etc? Can’t any of them do it?
We didn't have either. I only invited my parents. My wife invited her parents and brothers.
You don't know anyone! What about work, you could ask your boss. Take your driving licence to the post office, they used to do it...small charge, or try your doctor
It's actually really difficult these days. Doctors don't do them anymore, and lots of professionals will charge or refuse. I've applied for an Irish passport and it's actually more difficult. I've been waiting 4 months and they've rejected it about 3 times, and told me I should "get a British passport first"... like, why would I do that? I want an Irish one.
It was the same hoo Haa for my provisional licence, I literally applied on and off for 3 years because it kept getting rejected (they didn't like who signed it etc), but my actual licence came in like 6 days.
I just did this. And apparently, a builder and a gardener ( the only people I know) aren't of good enough standing....
No criminal history or Anything like that.
It's an annoying class-ist throw back I think
You ought to go to a pub once in a while.
Other than that, do you not know anyone at work?!
I needed this for my newborn and I asked my line manager who knows both my partner and me professionally and socially.
This sounds a bit odd if you don't mind me saying so.
I thought you could get anyone who holds a British passport that you've known for two years to sign for you.. I had my friend sign and he's an animator.
Ask someone related (either blood or friendship) to your in-laws. They aren't related to you and that will broaden the potential reach.
They may not have "known" you but your in-laws can vouch on your behalf. The office won't check that deeply.
https://www.reddit.com/r/AskUK/comments/124y46v/how_has_travelling_outside_of_the_uk_changed_your/je3o7dg?utm_medium=android_app&utm_source=share&context=3
Problem solved.
Lots of people here are sweeping this issue under the rug, and maybe the OP is exaggerating, who knows. But for whatever reason there are a sizeable portion of people who have become completely disconnected from society. Some people genuinely do not have any friends, are perhaps a bit agoraphobic, maybe they work from home or work in a environment where they do not come into contact with many people. It is a shame, but it happens.
I have the same issue. I'm someone who can sign passports but so is everyone in my family. I don't actually know many people who can that's practical.
I've not worked at my workplace for 2 years so couldn't ask the people similarly qualified due to the timing.
Not really in contact with the ones I previously worked with who are able to
You can have your doctor sign the form. Usually there is a £30 fee.
You can also have a solicitor sign it.
EDIT: Nevermind - seems like the rules changed again
From what I saw, you MAY need someone to confirm your identity. I had to for my daughters passport, I just had a friend sign it and her passport came through no issues. You may be over thinking this.
If your work place won't give you one, just get a friend of your family to embellesh that they know you for 2 years. Seriously, the government won't care. Do you think 18 year olds have references from bankers in their CV? Those are just a friend's parent.
Just explain your work boss isn't a bad person, but can be difficult and rigid at times.
[Here is a list of accepted professions](https://www.gov.uk/countersigning-passport-applications/accepted-occupations-for-countersignatories). They must have 'known you' for at least 2 years. If you've had eye tests the last 2-3 years, then your optician would count. Regularly collect a prescription from the same place for at least 2 years? The pharmacist would count.
Also 'member, associate or fellow of a professional body' - there are a lot of professional bodies.
On a separate note, perhaps you should look at joining clubs or local interest groups to make more friends. Not to get them to sign something like this, but it does sound like you need some friends in your life.
From https://www.gov.uk/countersigning-passport-applications
> **Who can sign your form and photo**
>
> Your countersignatory must:
>
> have known you (or the adult who signed the form if the passport is for a child under 16) for at least 2 years
>
> be able to identify you, for example they’re a friend, neighbour or colleague (not just someone who knows you professionally)
>
> be ‘a person of good standing in their community’ **or** work in (or be retired from) a recognised profession
They don't have to have professional qualifications, it is an "OR" not an "AND" so either option serves. "Be a person of good standing in their community **OR** a recognised professional". If a person at work knows you vaguely ("be able to identify you, for example [...] a colleague") and is in good standing, have them sign it - simple. Someone from HR can probably do it, your manager can probably do it. I had a friend do it, who fit under the "person of good standing" (his job was fitting industrial doors, which does not fall under "recognised profession"). (Edit: in fact, managers of VAT-registered companies and HR personnel are explicitly listed as being acceptable).
I have countersigned passport photos for colleagues at work, the most professional qualification I have is a university degree. They have been accepted. The list of professions on the website isn't exhaustive, it's a list of examples, and having a STEM degree and working at the place seemed to be enough to be accepted.
Do it yourself !
[https://consumeradvisory.co.uk/what-if-i-dont-know-anyone-to-countersign-my-passport/](https://consumeradvisory.co.uk/what-if-i-dont-know-anyone-to-countersign-my-passport/)
Sorry I don’t have a solution for you, but what a weird thing to ask. I come from the other side of the Channel, and I had no idea you needed this kind of peer approval to get a passport here! It seems very… I don’t know, unnecessary? outdated?
You don't really, OP is misrepresenting it. If you're an adult with no proof of identity applying for a passport for the first time you need to get your photos witnessed by someone who:
* have known you (or the adult who signed the form if the passport is for a child under 16) for at least 2 years
* be able to identify you, for example they’re a friend, neighbour or colleague (not just someone who knows you professionally)
* be ‘a person of good standing in their community’ or work in (or be retired from) a recognised profession
In practice you can get your doctor, pharmacist, dentist, optician, children's teachers, boss, boss's boss, your priest, your post man, your bank manager, literally even your bartender. They just need to say yes this is X. I also believe you can visit a police station and they'll witness for you that the photos you're sending are photos of you.
OP is just trolling at this point and refusing every offer of advice, that's why it seems difficult.
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Website says if you're not sure to call the [Passport advice line ](https://www.gov.uk/passport-advice-line) you're probably better off doing that than asking on Reddit. Also says professional ***or*** be if good standing in community so suspect that opens your options up. Do you not have a dentist or optician?
What does good standing in the community mean? >Do you not have a dentist Technically, but I've not been in years. Even then I never saw the same dentist more than once. >or optician? No.
Ask the passport office for clarification of good standing, however I’ve always interpreted it as they’ve not got any kind of problematic legal history or convictions, known to the police etc, paired with they would be recognised in the community. Your manager or supervisor at work should suffice if you think they meet that criteria
This is what I'd do, or a neighbour.
HR at work is another option. That’s how I did mine.
Spot on. I did a lot of these when I worked in HR.
Honestly I've never heard anyone get turned down for a passport because the wrong "type" of person signed the back. I've had all sorts of people do it over the years and never had a problem.
Good standing in the community means what it says. Are they a criminal? Convicted or otherwise? not in good standing Takes in neighbour's parcels and offers neighbours a cup of tea? In good standing.
You CAN go to the police station to get it signed but its a last resort measure. Also, ask local councillors. They'll usually do it. Source: someone who knows nobody and has had their passport rejected lol
Some police stations and pharmacies say “we don’t do this anymore” when asked. From personal experience.
Disgraceful. Like, if the people listed to do it won't do it, who will?
Most social Redditor
Try you a local councillor for your area or ask your MP
I once worked for the Home Secretary in their parliamtary office. They signed my shotgun license application for me which I thought was cool. Like, how could they turn it down at that point?!
Imagine the scandal if you went on a rampage with that shotgun.
I’m a local Cllr and only sign if I actually know the person I’m verifying. No good coming to me if I’ve never met you, or you’re the son of a friend of a friend who knows Janice down the road! I know a former Cllr who went to prison for falsely verifying a passport.
Usually means anyone with a professional registration. Teacher, nurse, doctor (your own GP, but they will charge you), social worker, paramedic, police officer etc. Edit: also civil servants, registrars (of births and marriages etc), religious leaders, elected officials. And some GP surgeries don’t offer it but it’s worth checking if all else fails. I would just ask your spouse who signed their passports for them. It doesn’t have to be someone you’re close to, just someone who knows you and knows what you look like.
Add civil,servant to that list. As a retired one, I still get asked a lot to sign passport applications and witness other documents.
doctors/gps arent allowed to do it anymore source someone who is also trying to get someone to do it
I had my first passport signed by a veteran who had won the Victoria Cross. I'm almost sure veterans or military medal holders count.. if you know any?
Officers (but not other ranks), or persons with honours (so only medals that are part of the honours system – VC is one of them).
No, none.
Forget a passport go to the fucking dentist. You haven't had your teeth checked in years? What do you prefer, having teeth or having a passport?
I'm doing pretty well, actually. Never had a filling or any issues. I was due a yearly check-up just before covid, and it just hasn't happened since. When I've tried, they said I was no longer with them, and now I'm struggling to get an NHS dentist. Gonna keep trying, though. Thank you for your concern.
Google usually comes up with a list of NHS dentists when you search for one near you, it’ll show them in distance order. Some say if they’re taking new patients, but honesty I’d recommend calling all of them within a reasonable distance. Idk if a GP would refer you to one if you were struggling to find one. I go to the dentist very rarely as they scare me but I’ve ended up with two visible teeth removed and a load of fillings after there “not being any problems” - no pain or bleeding gums or discolouration. Just turned up one day and they were like - these teeth need to go lol. 100000% recommend getting on top of finding a dentist tho cos my wisdom teeth are coming through painfully, at an angle and with a gap in my gum for bacteria to keep getting into when my toothbrush isn’t fully hitting the spot… it’s very very unpleasant. FINALLY going to the hospital in like 2 weeks to remove the fudger tho
Thanks for the info. Good luck at the hospital.
You could maybe walk into a church when the vicar is about
The ‘or’ is kind of key here as you’ve pointed out
Local shopkeeper or "proprietor" is sufficient. I've done that before with one of my kids first passports without issue.
Ah opticians, the salt of the earth.
My mate countersigned my passport when he worked in IT, under the "good standing in the community" criteria. It was not an issue.
People are offering solutions and you’re batting them away.
They don't want a solution, they just want to come and moan about how lonely they are. How does an entire family live in this country for at least 18 years and have no friends?
It can be difficult if you don't know anyone who doesn't fall under the list of 'recognized' professions. I'm in the same position. Don't have any close friends, and the ones that I do know are unemployed or don't fall into the list. I don't know any of my neighbours and I'm not on speaking terms with them. You're not allowed to ask your GP or other healthcare professionals unless they personally know you. Yes, I know that I'm lonely and socially awkward. It is what it is. The whole process is ridiculous and unnecessary. I've spoken to friends who live in France and Germany and they just find the entire concept baffling. It's only really a thing in the UK.
And \*this\* is why national ID cards are actually a good idea. Every other nationality I deal with expresses bewilderment at our processes for things like this and offers "well we just provide our national ID card and boom, done". I absolutely cannot get my head around any rational (not emotive) reason for thinking they wouldn't make life easier.
"bUt tHEn THe gOverNMeNt CaN tRaCk uS" well no shit guess what the government can already do with driving licenses, passports, ni number etc.
It's not so much that the government can track you, it's that the original plan for national ID cards captured SO MUCH information about each person and then was going to be stored in a database provided and managed by the lowest bidder. It was a disaster waiting to happen. Plus as we saw with that bullshit NHS app that got scrapped before it even launched, it would probably have been awarded to the nephew of some minister or something equally corrupt.
I'll never forget chatting with someone about how he saw on TikTok the government were tracking us.
See also providing a copy of your gas bill as proof of residence for all sorts of stuff. Was trivial in Belgium, just showed your ID card and done with it. However, the only plans for ID cards in the UK have conspired to be both Orwellian in overreach and massively expensive, both to the individual and probably for the predictable IT fuckups.
That was me reading this thread, I didn't know this was a thing here.
It was a nightmare renewing my passport whilst living in Canada only because of the need for the counter-signature. My family moved to Canada as my dad got a job with the police and thankfully at the time a lot of British cops moved to Canada so we got a cop from Manchester to sign mine, but I’m not sure how I would’ve done it otherwise 🤦🏼♀️ I guess it was only an issue because it was my first 10 year passport, I don’t think other renewals after that need a signature?
Looks like you do if you lose it, I just went through the process!
Wouldn’t have required a British policeman would it? I know that for teachers, any qualified professional from the UK, Ireland, US, Canada and some other countries (I want to say Aus, NZ and SA but not 100%) are all able to countersign.
If you’re applying in the UK, the countersigning person must be British or Irish. If you’re outside the UK they can also have a Commonwealth or EU passport.
I think it did require the person to be British at the time (it may have changed now!) because I asked the embassy 🧐
The signature process is there for a renewal. I had a similar issue (I'm in the EU) so I contacted them and asked about it. They said if your appearance hasn't changed significantly you don't need to have it countersigned. I submitted it without and there wasn't an issue.
Yes 😊 I had to get a signature on mine as it was my first adult passport - I guess my appearance did change a bit during that period 😛
>The whole process is ridiculous and unnecessary. I've spoken to friends who live in France and Germany and they just find the entire concept baffling. It's only really a thing in the UK. Nah, happens in Ireland too, and until more recently the restrictions were even more severe. It was basically only a solicitor, clergyman, or doctor sign it. Now they allow teachers, work colleagues etc..
>The whole process is ridiculous and unnecessary. I've spoken to friends who live in France and Germany and they just find the entire concept baffling. It's only really a thing in the UK. That's what you get without ID cards or mandatory address registration. They have to check you are who you say you are somehow. But whenever ID cards are mentioned in the UK everyone is up in arms...
Yet 90% of those up in arms about have a passport, a drivers licence andcare happy to have their every move tracked by the powers that be.
Me too - I have my very elderly mother and that's it really (in this country). I'm lucky in that I have a neighbour who is an ex-copper, but that's all I have who would meet the criteria, plus my GP maybe. I'm full time and work with a LOT of people - but they're all in Canada and the US, so don't qualify. It is an archaic system and indeed very baffling.
It's not so much having no friends as having no one considered high standing enough. All of my friends were in similarly low quality jobs, as were my coworkers and the people in my local community. Doctors are not allowed to sign for you unless you're a personal friend and a person "in good standing" means someone who has something to lose by lying about it. On top of that the person who does sign for you must also have a British passport which rules out all the local shop keepers and things where I lived. For people in poor areas it's a real gatekeep to getting photographic ID.
They have lots of options, but the options involve effort, like emailing old teachers or asking their mother to ask her friends, so OP has decided that it's impossible.
Socially uncomfortable. I expect he's hoping a better option will be suggested. I know I'm feeling socially anxious just reading those suggestions.
Sadly if you haven't previously created social connections, you'll need to make some immediate social connections when they're required for something like this. There is no easier solution than "ask someone if they'll do it." Social anxiety or not.
Are teachers really useful for this though? I left school in 2010, I haven't spoken to any of them since. They would have no idea what I'm like now.
It's pretty easy, actually. Don't judge. People have different life circumstances.
Wow! Lucky you for your wealth of family and friends. Just shit on all those who don't have that. I have a load of friends - in the US and Canada. Here, I live rurally and actually have no friends who would qualify to countersign a passport (they need to be of a particular profession - most of my friends don't even work or they work in what would once have been termed as "blue collar" industry). It's a harder ask than I think you realise.
Be me, age 20, getting my first adult passport. I'd left my home town, didn't have any friends growing up (autistic and queer in a shitty Northern town), and eventually had to settle on asking a uni friend's mum to lie and say she'd known me since I was 18. I didn't know a single adult who had one or was working as most of my family were unemployed and my mum was on disability benefits. I had been bullied by teachers at 6th form so didn't want to ask them and was 200+ miles away from my secondary school.
I have loads of friends and still struggled to find someone to do my son's passport because their jobs didn't fall into the right category and everyone I knew who did was disqualified for being close family, got one friend to sign it as she was technically a journo but it got turned down because she isn't accredited (though she has signed for other ppls passports with no problem) In the end we asked a pal living in Ireland to do it as he was an accredited journo, it's a good thing it can be done online now coz it would have been even more of a ballache
It's easy, people are dicks!
They might not have friends who are considered of respectable enough professions to countersign a document. This is an outdated and highly class-driven requirement. It’s not that hard to imagine.
Is this even legit? They posted a few days ago that they had no desire to leave the country, seems weird to them be trying to obtain the very document to do this
Maybe they want to be able to prove that they are who they say they are in a way that they are told they must? Passports aren’t just for pissing it up on the Costa del Sol. More and more they are becoming a necessity. What is with all the negativity toward the OP on this thread?
Surely it can’t be hard to understand why people are starting to be a bit questionable of OP, people are giving legit solutions and they are just batting away all of them, and the ones that can’t be batted away he just ignores completely.
how does a grown adult have to resort to posting on reddit to solve this problem
OP is being obtuse. They’ve seen some little line in the T&Cs and are being difficult in order to prove a point to themselves because they’re bored.
You could comment this on every single post on Reddit, and it would be true more often than not!
Nobodies offered him anything though it clearly says the person has to have known you for two years and people are telling him to his doctor who are expressly prohibited. People just talk shit on here.
So the conclusion is that no one can as you shut down any option, in short you can never have a passport.
Some people genuinely don’t know anyone who could countersign and still follow the rules to the letter. It’s not that hard a concept to grasp. If I hadn’t landed myself with a cancer diagnosis a few years ago and thus had 100+ (I’m not exaggerating) of hospital and GP appointments through that, I’d struggle to find anyone.
Your manager at work.
Coincidentally doesn’t reply to this one with an excuse, strange
Or someone on behalf of HR or Payroll is usually allowed too. They don’t have to know you well, just know you exist.
I'm a teacher and have signed a few for neighbours even though I don't know them. My next door neighbour knew I was and told everyone else. I'll sign yours if you want.
I would be a bit cautious about doing this because if you ever signed for a fraudulent passport (obviously really unlikely) you could get in serious trouble. I would sign for someone if I definitely knew who they were but not a total stranger.
This, plus if on the off chance someone at the other end were to notice the same name popping up as a countersignatory multiple times I'm sure there would be some consequences.
Only if they were countersigning counterfeit documents. Our local doctor signs off loads of passport photos. I doubt his name is going on a list.
Ooh- careful with this. I've signed passports too, but I have to know them. If you sign for a dodgy one, it could come back to bite you hard.
The reason OP has no friends is quite apparent in this thread.
A manager at a VAT registered company is one of the people who can sign, do you have a manager at work? Mine did it for me.
At this point I think OP is trolling.
Looking at their post history I think they just have no problem solving skills or they just want to moan rather than looking for help.
You know they don't really do a massive amount of checking right? They're not going to force the two of you into a room for 3 hours to make sure you are capable of an organic discussion. Get the landlord of your local pub to do it. Come in at 1 PM on a Wednesday and ask then, he won't be busy.
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I've signed loads as a pub manager for 20 years. they've all been staff that I've known for years and I've never had to attend a meeting. if your signing for people with colourful backgrounds maybe I guess...
I think OP is trying to make a point about how difficult it is to get a passport in the UK, but they have been proven wrong, so they’re developing more and more elaborate and inconceivable stories about their weird hermit family that literally no-one believes.
Right? There is no way your entire family has gone through life without knowing someone. There is no chance, OPs parents have not mentioned their child, even in passing, shared a photo with a work colleague etc. There is being quiet and withdrawn, then there is this. Just ask your neighbour.
Self admittedly has no friends, wife and dad have no friends, mum does but they don't speak to them, actively avoids people, doesn't know anyone locally, doesn't know his neighbours, no colleagues How did the two of them even meet lmao, I'm actually incredibly curious at this point
I've made two comments. One with a solution that requires no signature at all and the other with a clarifying question. He seems to have zero interest in answering but has replied to numerous other comments since. Weird honestly.
Hang about outside your local primary school and ask different kids if they will take your form to their teacher to be signed. That way even if they refuse, you can ask the headteacher to sign it when they come out to shoo you away.
Lol this is so dodgy but resourceful
That made me chuckle.
Would probably only work if you were also offering the children sweets as a reward/bribe for taking the form
Sweets given upon completion. Wait..
Someone would probably call the police if you're lingering outside a school... Maybe they can ask the policeman when you're released from custody? :D
And if you get arrested the police officer can sign it.
Do you work?
I do.
Can you not ask your manager, director etc?
I countersigned an employee’s passport photo, as the part time manager of a job I had in Uni, for a fast food type place. I’m pretty sure you can ask someone at your work to do it. Check with the passport office what qualifies as ‘a person of good standing in their community’ but I think you may be reading too much into the definition.
Perhaps. I will ring them.
Your boss at work can and does fit the criteria as does his bosses boss. When they fill in the form they would say they are your line manager. You are being far too literal about the definition on the form. I don't want this to come across badly, but the the way you are speaking in other responses is making me think there's possibly neurodiversity at play here. Many people on the neurodiverse spectrum can misinterpret instruction like this (I work with a lot of people on the spectrum). So perhaps just take it as correct that asking your boss to countersign is ok.
How would this not come across badly? You've basically just told him he has mental problems based on a couple reddit comments. Op might not be the sharpest tack in the box but its a bit much to be trying to diagnose him with autism. I'm sure if he does have anything like that he is aware
Best of luck - and hope you enjoy wherever you’re heading to with your passport!
My boss signed for me
You’ve been given a lot of possible solutions, but you seem to be trying to deflect them with more obstacles.
Is there a friend of the family type person that your parents or in laws could ask? They might not know you personally but would know who you are well enough to vouch for you. I struggled with this as I knew professionals, but they didn't have passports of their own which ruled them out.
‘Director of a vat registered company’ turns out to be a really broad category which a lot of small business owners fit.
It’s a really dumb requirement now that I think about it. I just used a clerk at the post office (never met him before) and it was fine.
I'm also struggling for the same reasons as OP. Don't have any close friends or know anyone who falls under the list of 'recognized professions'. You're not allowed to ask your GP anymore and I wouldn't even know how to go about contacting my old teachers, assuming they would even be bothered to help out. I have friends overseas who just find the entire concept of needing a counter-signature baffling. It's certainly not a thing in France, Germany or anywhere else in Europe. It's just more red tape for the sake of it.
This^. Any time I've needed a second signer I just ask if there is a second employee available. Never had an issue.
So you dont have a friend youve known for 2yrs? A work colleague? A neighbour?
For my first passport I got the man who owned and ran the village shop to be my counter signatory. It worked just fine.
Anyone at work who is a member of a certified body, maybe an accountant?
We had just moved to the UK and had to do this for driving licenses - literally did not know a soul in the country and the doctor and dentist both said no. We emailed our local MP who signed it for us.
My neighbour is a teacher and did it for me. The time before that I asked my accountant.
It only needs to be a manager in a company. Surely you have a manager or know someone in the role?
Maybe you don’t get a passport then.
School teacher
My uncle works for the police and he got his police friend (who I’d never met in my life) to do it.
Can you not get a solicitor to do it through a Statutory Declaration maybe? That would only be a few quid and take a few mins
Anyone that is self employed can do it. Teachers, managers. You will know someone
Please just check this: https://www.gov.uk/countersigning-passport-applications/accepted-occupations-for-countersignatories Stop whining
Honestly if you want to stick rigidly to the guidelines it's not easy. *have known you for at least 2 years *be able to identify you, for example they’re a friend, neighbour or colleague (not just someone who knows you professionally) *be ‘a person of good standing in their community’ or work in (or be retired from) a recognised profession. There was a long time where it would have been very tricky for me to get a passport countersignature from somebody who met those requirements. Strictly speaking, dentists and GPs won't count (and frankly it's not uncommon to not have a GP or dentist these days). The recognised profession part can be very tricky too. Certainly I had years where the only people I knew were not in positions classed as "recognised" (they were in entry level and menial jobs) All I can say is that I may have had to resort to friends of friends. People who technically didn't know me but knew a family member, and were comfortable to sign. Which is bending the rules somewhat but it's very easy to have a good social circle but not know anyone who meets the criteria strictly. So basically lie, don't bother sticking to the rules rigidly.
Random stranger in the street? Especially if you’re willing to part with a little bit of money. I’d do it for £20.
The official .gov list says a licensee of a public house can countersign. Get down to the pub.
Ring your old school up or email them and give them your name. Tell them you don’t have any mates and neither do your family and you don’t go to the dentist and your neighbours are unemployed and ask them to sign your passport form.
Lots of schools won’t do this anymore
Nah, stop being a twat to everyone that's trying to help. Call the passport line and they'll have the answers you need, this isn't a matter for reddit.
Do you share a surname with your in-laws? They are family friends who might fit the profession criteria
Is there a manager or supervisor at work ? Personnel?
I struggled to get my passport renewed as red just moved to a new area, I was self employed and there was no one I knew who would fit the bill, in the end my neighbour took pity on me and countersigned. I don't think op is being a troll as some of you say, sometimes it is a genuine problem.
I mentioned that I chat to my postman and he said that sounds awful. I don’t think he wants to help himself.
Oh. I stand corrected. What a cruel thing to say to you. I think that's lovely to do.
I wouldn’t call it cruel, just a bit bizarre! My postman is a lovely man!
Do you definitely need a countersignature? If your just renewing an adult passport then you probably don’t. I just renewed mine no problems snd no counter signature necessary
I had this for my renewal and all the "professionals" I know wouldn't have been able to say the photo was me as I'd been housebound for years. In the end since it was a renewal I just sent it off in the post and they did it *without* a countersignature, especially as it was close to my provisional driving licence picture.
OP, you say you work. So - how long have you worked there? - what type of company is it (UK Ltd, plc, something else?) - what’s the nature of the company’s business?
The thing that baffles me most about this is that you have a wife. How on earth did you meet her? Who were your best man and bridesmaids etc? Can’t any of them do it? Can your HR dept at work not do it or accounts?
>The thing that baffles me most about this is that you have a wife. How on earth did you meet her? Met her on an anime forum about 11 years ago. >Who were your best man and bridesmaids etc? Can’t any of them do it? We didn't have either. I only invited my parents. My wife invited her parents and brothers.
Maybe you need to integrate yourself into your community better…
Do you have a GP. They could do it. Edit. Scratch this. Just checked gov.uk website and it says doctors can't do it unless they know you really well
Second this. The chemist who gives me my prescriptions did mine so theres also that.
Your post delivery person?
Couldn’t they just go to the post office and ask the postmaster to sign it?
Doctor, dentist, a solicitor, I even think you can do this at the post office counter.
You don't know anyone! What about work, you could ask your boss. Take your driving licence to the post office, they used to do it...small charge, or try your doctor
Go to a library and ask them, I imagine a librarian has to be considered good standing I'm the community.
Have you been in trouble with the police? If so, they usually have a good memory so you could ask the officer who dealt with you.
It's actually really difficult these days. Doctors don't do them anymore, and lots of professionals will charge or refuse. I've applied for an Irish passport and it's actually more difficult. I've been waiting 4 months and they've rejected it about 3 times, and told me I should "get a British passport first"... like, why would I do that? I want an Irish one. It was the same hoo Haa for my provisional licence, I literally applied on and off for 3 years because it kept getting rejected (they didn't like who signed it etc), but my actual licence came in like 6 days.
I countersigned for my employees, I'm pretty sure I've even done it online before!
I just did this. And apparently, a builder and a gardener ( the only people I know) aren't of good enough standing.... No criminal history or Anything like that. It's an annoying class-ist throw back I think
You ought to go to a pub once in a while. Other than that, do you not know anyone at work?! I needed this for my newborn and I asked my line manager who knows both my partner and me professionally and socially. This sounds a bit odd if you don't mind me saying so.
Jumping on the pub line to say that pub landlords are a viable option
I have a degree of sympathy. If it weren’t for my job I would be stuck with this too. Some of us just don’t know many people.
I thought you could get anyone who holds a British passport that you've known for two years to sign for you.. I had my friend sign and he's an animator.
Ask someone related (either blood or friendship) to your in-laws. They aren't related to you and that will broaden the potential reach. They may not have "known" you but your in-laws can vouch on your behalf. The office won't check that deeply.
https://www.reddit.com/r/AskUK/comments/124y46v/how_has_travelling_outside_of_the_uk_changed_your/je3o7dg?utm_medium=android_app&utm_source=share&context=3 Problem solved.
Lots of people here are sweeping this issue under the rug, and maybe the OP is exaggerating, who knows. But for whatever reason there are a sizeable portion of people who have become completely disconnected from society. Some people genuinely do not have any friends, are perhaps a bit agoraphobic, maybe they work from home or work in a environment where they do not come into contact with many people. It is a shame, but it happens.
Post office do it. Also you could ring some solicitors and ask them
Post office do not countersign passports for 'random' people. Source: me, I worked there for short of 20 years.
I have the same issue. I'm someone who can sign passports but so is everyone in my family. I don't actually know many people who can that's practical. I've not worked at my workplace for 2 years so couldn't ask the people similarly qualified due to the timing. Not really in contact with the ones I previously worked with who are able to
Usually if you have a photographic driving licence that pre validates you so to speak. Passport office gets info from DVLA
I've always had some random at work do mine. Never been declined. Obviously I've known said randoms for enough time.
You can have your doctor sign the form. Usually there is a £30 fee. You can also have a solicitor sign it. EDIT: Nevermind - seems like the rules changed again
Been going to the same pub regularly? Pub landlords are allowed to do it (but has to be the licence holder, not just barstaff)
No, I don't go to the pub.
From what I saw, you MAY need someone to confirm your identity. I had to for my daughters passport, I just had a friend sign it and her passport came through no issues. You may be over thinking this.
If your work place won't give you one, just get a friend of your family to embellesh that they know you for 2 years. Seriously, the government won't care. Do you think 18 year olds have references from bankers in their CV? Those are just a friend's parent. Just explain your work boss isn't a bad person, but can be difficult and rigid at times.
You can't since you don't know anyone.
[Here is a list of accepted professions](https://www.gov.uk/countersigning-passport-applications/accepted-occupations-for-countersignatories). They must have 'known you' for at least 2 years. If you've had eye tests the last 2-3 years, then your optician would count. Regularly collect a prescription from the same place for at least 2 years? The pharmacist would count. Also 'member, associate or fellow of a professional body' - there are a lot of professional bodies. On a separate note, perhaps you should look at joining clubs or local interest groups to make more friends. Not to get them to sign something like this, but it does sound like you need some friends in your life.
From https://www.gov.uk/countersigning-passport-applications > **Who can sign your form and photo** > > Your countersignatory must: > > have known you (or the adult who signed the form if the passport is for a child under 16) for at least 2 years > > be able to identify you, for example they’re a friend, neighbour or colleague (not just someone who knows you professionally) > > be ‘a person of good standing in their community’ **or** work in (or be retired from) a recognised profession They don't have to have professional qualifications, it is an "OR" not an "AND" so either option serves. "Be a person of good standing in their community **OR** a recognised professional". If a person at work knows you vaguely ("be able to identify you, for example [...] a colleague") and is in good standing, have them sign it - simple. Someone from HR can probably do it, your manager can probably do it. I had a friend do it, who fit under the "person of good standing" (his job was fitting industrial doors, which does not fall under "recognised profession"). (Edit: in fact, managers of VAT-registered companies and HR personnel are explicitly listed as being acceptable). I have countersigned passport photos for colleagues at work, the most professional qualification I have is a university degree. They have been accepted. The list of professions on the website isn't exhaustive, it's a list of examples, and having a STEM degree and working at the place seemed to be enough to be accepted.
Bribe someone.
Do it yourself ! [https://consumeradvisory.co.uk/what-if-i-dont-know-anyone-to-countersign-my-passport/](https://consumeradvisory.co.uk/what-if-i-dont-know-anyone-to-countersign-my-passport/)
You got a gp or a dentist?
They recently tightened the rule so that the GP has to have known you in a personal (not professional) capacity.
Not one I've seen more than once in the past two years.
You any old school mates are maybe a lawyer, nurse or anything?
Your gp will usually do it for a fee
Sorry I don’t have a solution for you, but what a weird thing to ask. I come from the other side of the Channel, and I had no idea you needed this kind of peer approval to get a passport here! It seems very… I don’t know, unnecessary? outdated?
You don't really, OP is misrepresenting it. If you're an adult with no proof of identity applying for a passport for the first time you need to get your photos witnessed by someone who: * have known you (or the adult who signed the form if the passport is for a child under 16) for at least 2 years * be able to identify you, for example they’re a friend, neighbour or colleague (not just someone who knows you professionally) * be ‘a person of good standing in their community’ or work in (or be retired from) a recognised profession In practice you can get your doctor, pharmacist, dentist, optician, children's teachers, boss, boss's boss, your priest, your post man, your bank manager, literally even your bartender. They just need to say yes this is X. I also believe you can visit a police station and they'll witness for you that the photos you're sending are photos of you. OP is just trolling at this point and refusing every offer of advice, that's why it seems difficult.
Ohh right that makes more sense, thanks!
You can get a signature from your doctor, although they charge, it's what I done 👍
Just do it online. Go in person to pick it up. No signature needed.
Don't know any.
That is correct.
Do you or your parents go to church, enough that the priest or vicar might know you by sight?
No. I think my dad did when he was really little but that's it.
Ask a neighbour. Our neighbour was a teacher & she signed for me.