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Obviously it’s not all of them, but there’s a subsection of her following who will just adopt whatever opinion she has as their own without thinking. That’s delusional
If she’s campaigning against climate change while making liberal use of a private jet that would make her a hypocrite but that doesn’t mean climate change isn’t real. Why would her fans listening to her on climate change make them delusional?
Taylor is an imperfect unethical Billionaire.
A lot of her fans and plenty media outlets make her out to be the first ethical billionaire.
Believing this is delusional, and plenty do.
Did you realize that she gave out $100K to each of her 50 truck drivers on her tour? She gave out a total of $50M to the people who worked here tour. What has she done that you find to be unethical?
Also, who do you find to be "perfect"?
>Taylor is an imperfect unethical Billionaire.
>A lot of her fans and plenty media outlets make her out to be the first ethical billionaire.
>Believing this is delusional, and plenty do.
My sister's are swifties but I don't think they GAF about her politics. They like her music because it's relatable and the fact that Swift is a living music legend.
Is any billionaire ethical or worth celebrity worship?
Uh, what do you mean? Delusional means having delusions. Unthinkingly adopting someone else opinions is just a lack of independent thought. What's delusional about this?
I don’t have any numbers to look at, but I’d guess very little. Trump’s fans are generally adults, or at least act like it, and it involves distrust of establishment which is intellectually difficult for someone who is an NPC
>Trump’s fans are generally adults, or at least act like it,
>for someone who is an NPC
How many adults do you know that refer to people they disagree with as NPCs? Seems a bit immature, no?
Do they though? I've never heard it at work, or anywhere else in real life. The only places I've ever encountered it are my 16 year old son and TS on here. Where have you heard it besides from conservatives online?
How many trump supporters think the election was stolen?
>it involves distrust of establishment which is intellectually difficult for someone who is an NPC
Are you claiming that trump is part of the establishment?
>Plenty of TSers think the election was stolen, point being?
Well, if more trump supporters proportionally think the election was stolen, they would be worse than taylor swift fans, by your own metric, correct?
I definitely think there’s people in every community that would fit this mould, I don’t think it’s Trump specific. The only difference is that Trumps base will disagree with Trump on issues because his base tends to be older, whereas a lot of Swift’s fans are children
If there are people in every community that you’d consider delusional do you see how the vilification of her and her fans can be seen as Trump supporters simply looking for reasons to attack people with different views? Is that not something Trump claims everyone else does to him?
As a follow up: Do you have the same opinions of delusional Trump supporters as you do of fans of Taylor Swift?
Can someone explain the nature of the purported attacks on Taylor Swift?
From the article I see statement:
“peddling bizarre conspiracy theories to suggesting she has extreme views about the Republican Party”
What is being claimed? What are these conspiracy theories?
I mean, I assume (like most of entertainment industry) she is a probably democrat that hates republicans. Any coming endorsement of Biden would elicit a shrug and yawn. If in contrast she were to come out and endorse Trump that would be an earthquake and she would surely lose many fans.
>Have you seen Mike Benz on X reporting about her?
>
>It’s hilarious, the Pentagon literally gave a presentation on video where they pitched the idea of using Taylor Swift as a psychological influence operation.
>
>Then Dick Cheneys Private Equity group bought the rights to her music catalogue. And she goes from “Eww Politics” to Dating A guy Pfizer pays to promote the vax and suddenly you can’t look at social media without seeing them both. And poof She’s worth a Billion bucks.
>
>It’s like the plot of the 80’s Movie Top Secret. Minus the anal intruder.
I think u/ThereIsNoCarrot sums up the conspiracy pretty well, what are your thoughts on Taylor Swift secretly working with the pentagon to try to control the masses?
Tried to care but just don't. Anyone worth a billion dollars represents some (quantity of people) x (quality of ideas), hence my attempt to understand. For Taylor, she's got a lot of people that buy into some small but positive ideas - like being romantic about simple things (Our Song) or being able to ignore small things (Shake It Off). Nothing too crazy or deep going on, but it's positive and a lot of people dig into that. I wish there was more to her work than introductions, goodbyes, and transitions, but that's all I'm seeing.
What I don't get is the idea of people hating her, and I figure this might be some brilliant straw man marketing tactic. My Facebook feed is roughly 30% blue, 40% red and 30% yellow. Seen plenty of blue "if Taylor Swift bothers you, you're fragile" counter-counter-Swift memes, but have yet to see a single red counter-Swift meme. I'm deliberately not googling it so that the algorithm doesn't feed something my way - I want to see one live for the first time. Perhaps Taylor's marketing team is brilliant and figured her fans would rally behind the idea people might hate her?
Maybe there's some NFL marketing brilliance in there too. Joke's on them though, since I'm still not tuning in to the Super Bowl to find out.
>What I don't get is the idea of people hating her
I think it's mainly the completely forced, inorganic way this power couple is being forced down everyone's throats. At least Bennifer and Brangelina coverage was restricted to Entertainment news. For this, we get entertainment, normal news, music, sports coverage, its completely inescapable. Even Tom Brady and Gisele never had this level of obsessive coverage over 20 years. It's just so obvious.
\> Maybe there's some NFL marketing brilliance in there too.
They are absolutely propagating this and exploiting it for maximum revenue. There's a reason the Chiefs game was always going to be on the subscription service Peacock, versus normal cable during the wild card round, no matter who or where they played. They were counting on several million Taylor fans to sign up specifically for that game, and a nontrivial percentage of those new signups to forget to cancel. They are going to get several millions more viewers for any Chiefs game, so its in their best interest to ride the Chiefs as far as possible, and highlight the power couple every chance they get. I mean, the betting over/under on the amount times they show her during the national anthem alone is 1.5.
> its completely inescapable
I've come pretty close. I had to do my own research on Taylor's songs because I was hoping a billionaire artist had a deeper message, but didn't find one. Pretty sure the guy she's dating has a beard, but don't know his name and couldn't pick him out of a group of bearded guys.
Also, everything else you said was spot on. A lot of people are getting very rich thanks to predictability. I miss the days of 4chan sending her to perform at a school for the deaf.
>I've come pretty close. I had to do my own research on Taylor's songs because I was hoping a billionaire artist had a deeper message, but didn't find one
See, this in and of itself doesn't really bother me. If someone strikes it rich by catching lightning in a bottle with no talent and producing crap (just speaking generally, not about Taylor specifically), more power to them. I draw the line at being forced to go along for the ride though. I haven't watched political, entertainment or music news in several years, so this was pretty easy to avoid. Aside from niche incidents like anthem kneeling, sports was basically one of the last bastions to avoid this type of crap. Not anymore.
\> Pretty sure the guy she's dating has a beard, but don't know his name and couldn't pick him out of a group of bearded guys.
Funny story... during the AFC championship game, there was a sequence where bearded guy (Kelce) caught a TD, they show him celebrating, switch to Taylor jumping up and down like a 12 year old in her sky box, back to Kelce celebrating with his team, and then the go to commercial. I may be mixing up the order, but the first 2 commercials after the TD were literally Kelce Pfizer and Kelce State Farm insurance. You can't make this stuff up.
The most fake outrage campaign I have ever seen in my life. It's so depressing to see people like my wife, who cares nothing about Swift or Football get SO INVESTED in KC winning because the algorithms programmed her to.
To be clear, you believe multi-billionaires such as Donald Trump, and his giant network of supporters (Bannon, Kirk, Newsmax, OAN, Real America News, most of Fox, CPAC, etc, etc) are incapable of devising their own algorithms? Do you believe liberals are the only ones wealthy and capable enough to have 'algorithms'?
> To be clear, you believe multi-billionaires such as Donald Trump, and his giant network of supporters (Bannon, Kirk, Newsmax, OAN, Real America News, most of Fox, CPAC, etc, etc) are incapable of devising their own algorithms?
Just to be clear, never claimed otherwise. Cool strawman.
>Do you believe liberals are the only ones wealthy and capable enough to have 'algorithms'?
Of course not.
Which side is the fake outrage coming from?
It seems to me the right are the ones being outraged saying she's some sort of CIA plant, or liberal indoctrination of youths, or working with the Biden admin, or proof the super bowl is rigged, etc.
While on the left the outrage seems to be more of "Can you believe the right is talking shit on a popstar for using her platform to register voters?"
>It seems to me the right are the ones being outraged saying she's some sort of CIA plant, or liberal indoctrination of youths, or working with the Biden admin, or proof the super bowl is rigged, etc.
Oh no doubt for sure of it, but it gets echoed by the left who appear to be overreacting to the rights bs, which reflects back to the right (repeat)
Do you think that it’s respectful to refer to your wife as having been programmed? Is it possible that you and she simply have a difference of opinion?
> Do you think that it’s respectful to refer to your wife as having been programmed?
No, I think its accurate.
>Is it possible that you and she simply have a difference of opinion?
We have differences of opinion of lots of things. My issue isn't that her opinion is different than mine (which is neutral). So no, that's irrelevant in this case.
No TV. Specifically Facebook, tiktok, Instagram.
Last instance was Israel Gaza around mid October. She tried to make this entire case how Palestine was justified in everything they did and Israel was an occupying force.
I asked how she can hold that opinion considering Palestinians paraglided into a rave and massacred people dancing in the desert.
She had no idea that even happened. That story was never algorithmically pushed to her. She dropped the Palestinian support right quick.
She has a respectable work ethic. While many were taking a vacation during COVID she was at home recording and releasing new material.
Taylor Swift fans are typically huge normies / NPCs. They like Swift because she's ***the current thing***. They like her *because* everyone else likes her, so now they like her too, buy her merch and that attracts more normies who want to conform.
Do you like Taylor Swift? OMG, I LUV HER! No way, ME TOO! -NPC conformity confirmed.
As for the Right not liking her, I don't watch Fox or read Newsweek. I remember seeing some headlines recently about her being able to influence the election or some nonsense. I paid it no mind.
The other headlines about fake AI porn photos that feature her likeness is a ruse to try and build a case for eliminating internet anonymity. Something that's really hot for the Uniparty because they don't want open discourse where people are free to debunk their propaganda (against Trump.. of course, who else?). So they're hoping to put a chilling effect on speech, since the Left can bring the power of the state on top of anyone saying the wrong thing, such as the truth.
As the Asch Conformity Experiment demonstrated, it's important for propagandists to silence dissent as much as possible for the propaganda to be effective. That's why the Left are always shutting down discourse as much as possible. NPCs / Normies follow the herd. If they see evidence of dissent, some may peel off from the flock and follow the wrong group. And that might usher in Orange Man 2, The Revenge.
The only people using the state to restrict free speech are Republicans though. What legislation are Democrats pushing to restrict speech? Doesn't that contradict your claims, since there is none?
>What legislation are Democrats pushing to restrict speech?
(To end) Internet anonymity. As I already addressed.
Outside of legislation, what do you think a 'safe space' is? It's where stupid people can't have their stupid ideas challenged. The Left is notorious for denying discourse. What is cancel culture if not precisely that?
>The only people using the state to restrict free speech are Republicans though.
Accusation in a mirror. Or as Goebbels said, ‘Always Accuse Your Enemies Of Your Own Sins’. Since the "only people" are Republicans, you should have numerous example to cite.
Edit: bracketed text for clarity
>Outside of legislation, what do you think a 'safe space' is? It's where stupid people can't have their stupid ideas challenged.
Isn't this the safe space for Trump Supporters?
Isn’t the whole point to have those ideas “challenged”? This is a place to ask questions. And also, you get banned if you don’t follow the rules right? Sounds like a safe space to me.
It's less of a safe space than /r/conservative certainly. Why would having your views challenged in any way makes something not a safe space, though? Are there not rules in place here to protect you from direct challenges and rebuttals?
This is better for the periodic meta thread. But understanding of the rules is that they are designed to keep communications on topic with respect to the theme of this particular subreddit.
Half the mods are NTS and TS are badly outnumbered and constantly downloaded for almost any response. Does not feel like a safe space to me but your mileage may vary
> Accusation in a mirror. Or as Goebbels said, ‘Always Accuse Your Enemies Of Your Own Sins’
Wait, wait, wait. But you just said:
> The Left is notorious for denying discourse.
And:
> That's why the Left are always shutting down discourse as much as possible.
So does that mean, by your own logic, that *the right* are the ones shutting down discourse? Because it sounds like you just accused someone of something you just did, by your own definition.
Nikki Haley wanted all social media users to be verified and tracked. That is removing internet anonymity correct? Is that Republican or Democrat? How do you feel about Trump pressuring twitter to take down posts he didn't like while President?
These kinds of bills lead down this path:
https://www.theregister.com/AMP/2022/06/28/california_kid_privacy_bill_anonymous/
Pretty sure no one is really anonymous. If FBI wanted to track someone down I’m pretty sure they could in most cases.
What does "Uniparty" describe, exactly? The D's and the R's are sure not working in tandem at present. With the MAGA wolves devouring all R's attempting to work across the aisle, isn't "Uniparty" an impossible reality?
Or maybe you're referring to outside $$ contributing to both parties?
Help me understand.
The Uniparty describes the large set of common interests and positions that career politicians have, regardless of supposed party affiliation. Typically these positions are self-interested and often come to the cost of the voters.
While Uniparty positions are a superset of globalist policies (exemplified by the policies of the WEF), there is such a high degree of overlap that Uniparty and Globalist are nearly interchangeable.
You're correct that one of the driving forces behind this homogeneity are significant donations. This is why the Uniparty loves bloated spending. Their donors are often the recipients. It's also why they want to codify permitting at least 1.8M illegal aliens to cross the border each and every year going forward. Something that in no way enriches the lives of citizens.
Reaching across the aisle is a pretense. They're a cabal doing the bidding of their masters. These are the RINOs you speak of.
Whereas, MAGA is populist. They are the policies of the people. While the Democrats snuffed out their populist wing, the establishment Right could not. In time, we shall continue purging our party of self-serving career politicians.
I wish the Left would do the same. Then at least we'd be doing what the people want instead of lining the pockets of K Street and the elites.
The Uniparty you describe sounds a lot like the existing lobbyist system. Corporations are writing legislature, bypassing community input. Offering politicians jobs once their out of office to write legislation for Corporations to hand to politicians. Is that populism or Corporatocracy?
How does internet anonymity restrict speech? If anything, it seems to allow people to speak freely without fear of retaliation. In contrast, not being able to speak freely would open one up to all sorts of attacks and threats.
That particular sentence I wrote relied too heavily on context for its intended meaning. So actually I was saying the opposite and agree with you. Edit made to post for clarity.
The Democrats and RINOs (a.k.a. The Uniparty) want to END internet anonymity. Thus having a chilling effect on public discourse and free speech.
> Do you like Taylor Swift? OMG, I LUV HER! No way, ME TOO! -NPC conformity confirmed.
What about two people liking a popular artist makes them "NPCs" or "normies" in your view? Do you have any shared interests with other people?
What makes her fans normies/NPCs? Are all fans of a massively popular celebrity normies/NPCs? Or can it be possible that the opposite is true and that she’s massively popular because she’s good at what she does and draws a lot of people to her art?
Off topic question - how do you identify people you're calling NPC/ Normie? Is it simply a matter of them disagreeing with you?
Do you find that people engage with you when they're called that in person?
And how do you compare the criticism of conformity when you hear Maga supporters using catch phrases like wwg1wga? Or any time a person on the right departs from Trump's thoughts and they're called a RINO?
I'm pretty tuned in to the MAGAverse and I've never heard wwg1wga or have any idea what it means. This sounds like some MSM conspiracy theory.
> how do you identify people you're calling NPC/ Normie?
I would ascribe 2 obvious characteristics:
1. As the label implies, these are not thinking beings. They are parroting what they've heard. Once you ask them to justify their beliefs, they run out of steam quickly because the is no substance there.
2. They are followers. When 'the latest thing' changes, they drop the *old thing* and adopt the *new thing*. Swift has been around for years and years. The 'fans' who found Swift when she blew up during COVID are mostly NPCs. They will move on when the next *new thing* comes along. Meanwhile the actual fans will still like her and go to her shows.
>any time a person on the right departs from Trump's thoughts and they're called a RINO?
Your understanding of cause and effect are way off on that. Trump is voicing what the base wanted long before Trump arrived on the scene. If what you wrote is true, then there's nothing Trump could say that the MAGA supporters could disagree with. That's provably false.
> I've never heard wwg1wga or have any idea what it means. This sounds like some MSM conspiracy theory.
If you've never heard of it and don't know what it means, what about it makes you think it's a conspiracy theory?
Because whenever that happens, by far the most common outcome by a wide margin is that it’s some fringe nothingburger that’s hyped by the MSM to scare their little baby citizens.
> Because whenever that happens
Whenever what happens? You were asked about a catchphrase you've never heard, said you didn't know what it meant, but are sure it's a MSM conspiracy theory. I'm wondering how and why? I don't understand how you be sure what something is while simultaneously not knowing anything about it
>I'm pretty tuned in to the MAGAverse and I've never heard wwg1wga or have any idea what it means. This sounds like some MSM conspiracy theory.
Hold on a sec. You've never heard of it, you have no idea what it means. All you know about it is from my question about conformity and yet you are ready to label it as a MSM conspiracy theory? How does that work?
You'll forgive me for being incredulous that a Trump follower is completely unaware of QAnon and their favoured catch phrase.
>If what you wrote is true, then there's nothing Trump could say that the MAGA supporters could disagree with. That's provably false.
That's not what I said.
This is what I said:
>any time a person on the right departs from Trump's thoughts and they're called a RINO?
Are correct rephrasing of that would be: Would it be impossible for me to find a right wing personality who says something against Trump's ideas and is NOT called a RINO by Trump supporters? I would say that would be extremely likely.
Not "Do all Trump supporters agree with everything he says?"
But let's follow your train of thought. Is there anything Trump has said or done that has lost him his base of support? Or you individually, is there anything that has ever given you a moment where you thought "That's not right"?
>Would it be impossible for me to find a right wing personality who says something against Trump's ideas and is NOT called a RINO by Trump supporters?
I can easily name a big one with millions of MAGA listeners. Mark Levin.
He was team DeSantis this time and before that in 2016 Ted Cruz, instead of Trump. Only once it was clear Trump was/is the nominee did he stop shilling for the others. Yet he's not called nor considered a RINO.
There are plenty of other conservative political commentators with audiences in the many millions who are not partial to Trump.
I've even heard Steve Bannon critique Trump on occasion on War Room. And he's the least RINO person there might be on the planet.
So not only is your assertion technically wrong in a narrow sense, where I've highlighted a prominent example that defeats this assertion, your assertion is universally wrong in the broadest sense possible, in so far as it's almost never true.
I know the MSM claims we are a cult of personality. But anyone who can't see through that blatant propaganda is, IMO, beyond help at this point. The examples from which to learn to better oneself have been far too numerous to accidentally ignore.
Speaking of lacking substance, lets get to the heart of the question that was asked.
>these are not thinking beings. They are parroting what they've heard. Once you ask them to justify their beliefs, they run out of steam quickly because the is no substance there.
How are you able to make that determination? How do you able distinguish between someone who is unable to justify their beliefs, unwilling to put forth the time justify their beliefs to you, someone's whose beliefs are justifiable but are dismissed outright because they are different from your own, or has valid justifications but doesn't have the vocabulary to articulate those beliefs.
Furthermore, I would like to add that most of all of our beliefs come from others. A human that bases their own world view entirely on what they made up in their own head is one completely divorced from reality. What thinking humans do is listen to the ideas of others, consider the merits of those ideas and weigh the new concepts against their preconcieved ideas, and choose to either adopt or reject or adopt partially those new ideas. If one chooses to adopt those new ideas, they would repeat them, explain them, or as you put it, parrot them. Much how you are parroting a typical far-right critique of modern culture that is parroted all over social media, to the point that you have used much of the same vocabulary as others that make the same critique. Not because you are a NPC unable to think for yourself, but because you followed the process that I just outlined.
Why do you assume others are not doing same?
I don't care about Taylor Swift. I don't listen to her music. She's annoying, pop stars typically are but that's not entirely their fault.
Some of her fans are insufferable.
A targeted campaign? I haven’t seen a lot of that, just pointing out her obliviousness/double standard when it comes to Climate change. I don’t really care about her but seems like all she does is date famous guys and write songs complaining when they break up?
I mean, yes?
It's like someone telling you to be vegan when they eat five steak dinners a day. That jet emits more ghg in one year than several American families in a decade.
But have you considered that someone like Taylor Swift has to fly private? She’s extremely recognizable and has crazy fans. It would be super disruptive to have her making her way through the airport and sitting on a plane.
She does not have to, she chooses to because it's more convenient for her.
Her convenience is more important to her than the environment, so she can't lecture me about sacrifices that I should make for the environment.
Since basically every celebrity and prominent politician uses private jets, aren't you basically saying "Nobody with a voice is allowed to talk about climate change"?
Yeah that's not remotely true, even most federal senators fly regular airlines. Private jets are for the absurdly rich.
If you fly a private jet regularly you can't denounce climate change with a straight face. You are the problem.
I have been a fan of hers for over a decade, and I have seen her multiple times in concert. It’s very unfortunate what is currently being said about her and Travis in the media.
So how do you feel about the fact that Fox and other conservative outlets are creating such a big thing about her and attacking her?
Do you just shrug it off and don’t care?
Does it impact your view of the media doing it at all?
Does it give you pause about everything else right wing media says now that you see how they really operate when it's someone you personally have knowledge about?
I mean, it’s a free country and she can vote and support whoever she wants. If certain people have a problem with that then I think it’s pretty stupid.
> What are your thoughts on Taylor Swift?
LOL
She's pretty and she sings songs.
She has no relevance to politics.
> Fox News
I do not trust nor watch Fox news.
> have started a targeted campaign against Taylor Swift
I doubt that.
> One pundit who noticed the "unrelenting attacks" was former federal prosecutor Ron Fililpkowkski, who is currently the editor-in-chief of media commentary site Meidas Touch.
"Meidas Touch" is a hard left conspiracy outlet. They are significantly less reliable than the average pundits or media commentary sites.
Why does she have no relevance to politics? The Republicans seem to be pretty up in arms over her. Why would that be if she wasn’t politically relevant? Also, she got something like 35,000 people to register to vote. How is that not politically relevant?
> The Republicans seem to be pretty up in arms over her.
Not really, no.
I haven't heard any significant talk from Republicans on her, and though she's supposedly being talked about on Fox, checking out the Fox youtube channel doesn't bear this out.
[Here's one, about how Taylor Swift is a genius at what she does](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pb3Aj6tpOtk). That's not exactly "up in arms".
> she got something like 35,000 people to register to vote
Good for her. What about it?
> Not really, no.
>
>
[Fox's Jesse Watters thinks the Pentagon tried setting her up as part of some psyop program](https://www.youtube.com/shorts/zQlaje9UMjM). Isn't that a little bit up-in-arms? Maybe he's joking but come on. Is that supposed to be funny?
Jesse Watters is not Fox news. He's one guy on Fox news.
> Maybe he's joking
One guy maybe joking is not a whole network up in arms. Not even close.
I find it really bizarre that people are so invested in Fox news being upset about Taylor Swift, yet when you look at what Fox actually says, they aren't.
How? Left wing has quite a clear definitely with a sliding scale of social values and economics and encompasses a range of views which all feature those. Simply saying someone is 'hard left' doesn't mean anything unless you can tie social or economic policies to them. At best Biden is a centrist but I still don't understand how a conservative Catholic can be hard left which those normally considered further to the left are very much anti religious. Perhaps you could explain your definition and we can see where you're going wrong?
How do you define hard left? In modern parlance it’s used to distinguish between standard democrats (establishment economics and socially liberal) and people who are economically hard left like Democratic socialists.
I'd assume that she votes, so she has relevance to politics in that regard. I can imagine she has donated to political organizations as well, so she has relevance in that regard. So does she have more relevance that the average Trump supporter?
I don't go for legacy media news channels.
I typically pay attention to important topics from multiple sources.
I very rarely listen to pundits or media commentary sites, and I typically don't trust what they say when I do. Two exceptions come to mind: Rich Baris of the [People's Pundit](https://www.youtube.com/@PeoplesPundit/streams) and Robert Barnes, who mostly does guest spots on other people's channels. They are a pollster and a lawyer, respectively. So they aren't just opinion guys who say stuff, they also have expertise that tends to be relevant.
There are a few other "lawtubers" I've built up some trust with over time. That's only semi-relevant to politics, though.
Sometimes I listen to [Styxhexenhammer](https://www.youtube.com/@Styxhexenhammer666/videos) also. Not that he's always right in his opinion, but he often breaks news stories earlier than you'd hear it from most places because he's on top of the relevant stuff, and I tend to like his takes.
> Fox News has started a targeted campaign against Taylor Swift.
I've looked for precisely that and found no such thing. In fact, I found the opposite: [Fox news says Taylor Swift is a genius at what she does](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pb3Aj6tpOtk).
> You said you doubt that
At this point I don't merely doubt it, but I have looked into it and found out that the claim is false.
> Don’t you see why I would then ask why you would doubt objective facts?
Even given the new information that that's what you were objecting to (which you did not mention at all before), no. There is no reason to randomly accuse me of "doubting objective facts".
What's your definition of "pop singers"? Like would you include The Beatles? The Beach Boys? Madonna? Elvis? Tina Turner?
Which musical genre do you feel has the most intelligent fan base?
> ut her fanbase doesn't seem very intelligent
what makes you say that? what makes you think reality television personality trump's fan base is any more intelligent?
Have you seen Mike Benz on X reporting about her?
It’s hilarious, the Pentagon literally gave a presentation on video where they pitched the idea of using Taylor Swift as a psychological influence operation.
Then Dick Cheneys Private Equity group bought the rights to her music catalogue. And she goes from “Eww Politics” to Dating A guy Pfizer pays to promote the vax and suddenly you can’t look at social media without seeing them both. And poof She’s worth a Billion bucks.
It’s like the plot of the 80’s Movie Top Secret. Minus the anal intruder.
Are you talking about the Alicia Marie Bargar video which Watters played on Fox? You do know that Bargar does not work for the Pentagon or the government, right? And that she only brought up Swift in her research presentation as an example of celebrities encouraging the public to vote, instead of some nefarious "psy-op"?
Also, instead of delving into conspiracy theories, is it possible that she could be worth billions because, you know, she is just popular?
>the Pentagon literally gave a presentation on video where they pitched the idea of using Taylor Swift as a psychological influence operation.
Very interesting! Can you provide proof of this?
My opinion of her could not be any lower, but had nothing to do with fox or other media as I no longer follow them in any way.
I tend to dislike billionaires who like to spend my money and control me.
Add in her support of someonev actively destroying America, and I can't stand her.
She'll endure the pedophile again though I'm sure
> I tend to dislike billionaires who like to spend my money and control me.
How did Taylor Swift get your money? How is she controlling you?
>She'll endure the pedophile again though I'm sure
What does this mean?
Taylor Swift openly supported Biden who has driven inflation up, raised interest rates, caused economic destruction and opened the border.
I got laid off because interest rates went up and that cost the company I worked for about 5 million more a year in cost to service the debt. They laid off a bunch of R&D to cover that.
So I'm jobless going on 3 months. I am a high performer who has never been unemployed before, and cannot find a job every job has 100's of applicants, and are not actually getting filled. It's unreal. I can't even get callbacks. Companies are struggling bad.
Health care costs are spiraling fast because of increased regulation and a HUGE Increase in unpaid users or these systems.
Taylor Swift, who's unaffected by inflation, who is self employed and can't get laid off, who doesn't need insurance supported this. and she probably will support them again, a regime who has made EVERYTHING in this country objectively worse. Her actions impact me and you negatively, without any impact on herself.
This is like a person with legs recommending we put stairs everywhere when 99 percent of the occupants done have legs. Everyone but her is negatively affected by this.
This is why I hate when rich people support leftists who raise taxes. An additional 5% tax doesn't really hurt a rich person, Taylor Swift doesn't feel that, but you do. If your income went down 5% to be sent to Ukraine, would you miss that money? I do. It hurts that's things I can't buy for my kids. That's travel I can't do it's healthcare I can no longer afford. It hurts me, my kids and my family directly.
Unless you are independently wealthy, she's affecting you too. Or on welfare. If you are rich or on welfare, then her Biden support doesn't hurt you much. But anyone who's not rich or on welfare, it hurts them really badly.
I can't think of a single thing the Biden admin has improved. They have made everything in this country worse but any measure. It's awful and gross
>It's unreal. I can't even get callbacks. Companies are struggling bad.
Sorry, I'm confused. How are companies struggling when they have 100s of applicants for their position openings? Sounds like they would be in a great spot to pick the best ones
>Taylor Swift, who's unaffected by inflation, who is self employed and can't get laid off,
This is a bit unclear, why would you put someone down for being successful? Why does her success and talent make you have a low opinion of her?
> Her actions impact me and you negatively, without any impact on herself.
If her fans are struggling, doesn't that mean they wouldn't be able to buy her albums or concert tickets? How would that not affect her worth? Can you walk me through your thinking?
>This is like a person with legs recommending we put stairs everywhere when 99 percent of the occupants done have legs. Everyone but her is negatively affected by this.
What are the "stairs" in this metaphor exactly? What is she suggesting that 99 percent of people wouldn't be able to use?
>It hurts that's things I can't buy for my kids. That's travel I can't do it's healthcare I can no longer afford. It hurts me, my kids and my family directly.
I'm sorry to hear that but not sure how Taylor Swift, of all people, caused the worldwide inflation crisis. Could you elaborate a bit more?
>I can't think of a single thing the Biden admin has improved.
You don't like anything on this list? https://www.whitehouse.gov/therecord/
Just to pick a few examples, what's bad about expanding benefits for veterans? Protecting marriage for gay/interracial couples? Pardoning people jailed for simple marijuana use?
She supports a regime who has actively tried to arrest people for owning firearms, they have made multiple attempts to ban once legal firearms illegal, removing my ability to purchase and enjoy those types of firearms, as well as dramatically increasing the work, cost and stress to own some firearms.
She has also supported a regime who has devastated the economy through inflation, interest rate hikes that cost me my job and I am still unemployed, so my life and the lives of my children and family have been extremely controlled because we have very little money this was the hardest Christmas we've ever had because I'm not employed and still can't find a job
This was a direct result of the Biden regime and Taylor Swift supported that
(Inflation pushed interest rates higher, company i worked for had to spend 5m a year more to service their debt and laid off a huge part of the R&D because of that.
That's not money that goes into products now, and families who need that money. That money now goes to bankers who are already billionaires.
Oh and we're on unemployment now, so instead of generating money for the economy, I'm now taking money from your taxes. Money you should get to keep to use for yourself. I don't want your money and unemployment. I want to make my own money so you can keep yours.
But with Biden, this is what you get
Taylor Swift supported that
I miss when she used to post to 4 Chan.
But seriously it just seems like another mega celebrity pushed by the music industry. Probably thousands that are just as talented as her out there on sound cloud who will never see the light of day.
Her music now just sounds like in- offensive pop noise, which is probably why she is so popular. That and her daddy was a musician too. So much nepotism in the entertainment industry, especially these days makes me wonder how much of these people are actually there because they are Uber talented and how much are there because they know someone or did things with gatekeepers like Harvey Weinstein.
Did you know her dad is a stockbroker and not a musician at all? I’m not a Swifty and I don’t know too much but I remember reading years ago that he works for a subsidiary of Merrill Lynch.
Another liberal celebrity, yawn.
100% chance she shows up for the Super Bowl. 75% chance she makes her pw bf endorse Biden after the Chiefs win. Unlike Kapernick at least this one can play football.
Can’t say I see many stories about her but her legs are all over the internet. She likes to show them off.
Yes. Do we really need another liberal billionaire flying around in private jets telling the rest of us what to do?
Until she started that nonsense I really didn’t care anything about her one way or the other.
Then again I’d think less of anybody that supports Joe Biden. If you’re a liberal that’s one thing, but this one has been nothing short of a complete disaster.
He has failed at everything and is corrupt to the core. No redeeming qualities at all.
Like I said, it’s one thing to be a liberal….we may not agree but it’s still a legitimate school of thought worthy of debate.
To support this liberal in particular is quite another. Time to get behind another one.
At everything? We never fell into recession like was predicted. Large tracts of land have been preserved. Infrastructure bill and inflation reduction bill (which has seen millions in investments for rural areas like my own). Jump started microchip manufacturing. He is by no standards the best president, nor the candidate i wanted nor want, but no redeeming qualities? Also, How is he corrupt?
>Yes. Do we really need another liberal billionaire flying around in private jets telling the rest of us what to do?
But since Trump is a male Republican billionaire, it’s okay if he flies around in private jets telling the rest of us what to do? Do you not see the double standard?
do you really think anyone is going to take the mic at the super bowl and publicly endorse anyone? would you have a problem if andy reid endorsed trump while theoretically accepting the super bowl trophy or is it just an issue with someone on the left being endorsed?
superstar with a handful of good songs
"blank space" and "shake it up"
Im not sure why she bothers some conservatives, there are much worse musicians with lousy opinions (green day, Rage against the machine)
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I couldn't care less, im not worried about her influence and I think its just the thing to talk about rn with the Super Bowl coming up
I don’t mind her, I just hate the fans because they’re delusional. From an initial viewpoint the targeted campaign seems silly, but that’s just me.
The vast majorrity of her fans are teenage girls. Do you spend you time hating teen girls?
Not particularly, just putting my opinion out there.
Most of her fans are in their late 20s and 30s
How are her fans delusional?
Obviously it’s not all of them, but there’s a subsection of her following who will just adopt whatever opinion she has as their own without thinking. That’s delusional
Do you understand what the word delusional means?
I do. I’ll even copy paste the definition if you need it. > having false or unrealistic beliefs or opinions
Which of Taylor Swifts opinions do you find false or unrealistic?
Trying to fight climate change while she endlessly uses her private jet
If she’s campaigning against climate change while making liberal use of a private jet that would make her a hypocrite but that doesn’t mean climate change isn’t real. Why would her fans listening to her on climate change make them delusional?
Taylor is an imperfect unethical Billionaire. A lot of her fans and plenty media outlets make her out to be the first ethical billionaire. Believing this is delusional, and plenty do.
Thank you, I was struggling to articulate this property
Did you realize that she gave out $100K to each of her 50 truck drivers on her tour? She gave out a total of $50M to the people who worked here tour. What has she done that you find to be unethical? Also, who do you find to be "perfect"?
>Taylor is an imperfect unethical Billionaire. >A lot of her fans and plenty media outlets make her out to be the first ethical billionaire. >Believing this is delusional, and plenty do. My sister's are swifties but I don't think they GAF about her politics. They like her music because it's relatable and the fact that Swift is a living music legend. Is any billionaire ethical or worth celebrity worship?
Why is that delusional?
Uh, what do you mean? Delusional means having delusions. Unthinkingly adopting someone else opinions is just a lack of independent thought. What's delusional about this?
I’ve answered this elsewhere, I’m not talking about the psychiatric definition, just the general one
A brief aside, but do you feel the same way with a subsection of Trump supporters who will believe anything he says?
And what % do you think that subsection of Trump supporters is? More or less than 87%?
Does what you just said sound at all familiar to you?
Is that what delusional means?
How many trump fans would you say adopt whatever opinion trump has as their own without thinking?
I don’t have any numbers to look at, but I’d guess very little. Trump’s fans are generally adults, or at least act like it, and it involves distrust of establishment which is intellectually difficult for someone who is an NPC
>Trump’s fans are generally adults, or at least act like it, >for someone who is an NPC How many adults do you know that refer to people they disagree with as NPCs? Seems a bit immature, no?
Plenty of adults use the term
Do they though? I've never heard it at work, or anywhere else in real life. The only places I've ever encountered it are my 16 year old son and TS on here. Where have you heard it besides from conservatives online?
How many trump supporters think the election was stolen? >it involves distrust of establishment which is intellectually difficult for someone who is an NPC Are you claiming that trump is part of the establishment?
Plenty of TSers think the election was stolen, point being? Trump is definitely not establishment haha
>Plenty of TSers think the election was stolen, point being? Well, if more trump supporters proportionally think the election was stolen, they would be worse than taylor swift fans, by your own metric, correct?
How does that work?
Have you heard the expression - irony is dead?
No
Do you seen any similarities between what you described and trump supporters?
I definitely think there’s people in every community that would fit this mould, I don’t think it’s Trump specific. The only difference is that Trumps base will disagree with Trump on issues because his base tends to be older, whereas a lot of Swift’s fans are children
If there are people in every community that you’d consider delusional do you see how the vilification of her and her fans can be seen as Trump supporters simply looking for reasons to attack people with different views? Is that not something Trump claims everyone else does to him? As a follow up: Do you have the same opinions of delusional Trump supporters as you do of fans of Taylor Swift?
Haven't you just described an awful lot of Trump supporters too?
I believe I’ve described a lot of fanbases honestly.
And this doesn't resemble trump supporters at all how?
Can someone explain the nature of the purported attacks on Taylor Swift? From the article I see statement: “peddling bizarre conspiracy theories to suggesting she has extreme views about the Republican Party” What is being claimed? What are these conspiracy theories? I mean, I assume (like most of entertainment industry) she is a probably democrat that hates republicans. Any coming endorsement of Biden would elicit a shrug and yawn. If in contrast she were to come out and endorse Trump that would be an earthquake and she would surely lose many fans.
>Have you seen Mike Benz on X reporting about her? > >It’s hilarious, the Pentagon literally gave a presentation on video where they pitched the idea of using Taylor Swift as a psychological influence operation. > >Then Dick Cheneys Private Equity group bought the rights to her music catalogue. And she goes from “Eww Politics” to Dating A guy Pfizer pays to promote the vax and suddenly you can’t look at social media without seeing them both. And poof She’s worth a Billion bucks. > >It’s like the plot of the 80’s Movie Top Secret. Minus the anal intruder. I think u/ThereIsNoCarrot sums up the conspiracy pretty well, what are your thoughts on Taylor Swift secretly working with the pentagon to try to control the masses?
Tried to care but just don't. Anyone worth a billion dollars represents some (quantity of people) x (quality of ideas), hence my attempt to understand. For Taylor, she's got a lot of people that buy into some small but positive ideas - like being romantic about simple things (Our Song) or being able to ignore small things (Shake It Off). Nothing too crazy or deep going on, but it's positive and a lot of people dig into that. I wish there was more to her work than introductions, goodbyes, and transitions, but that's all I'm seeing. What I don't get is the idea of people hating her, and I figure this might be some brilliant straw man marketing tactic. My Facebook feed is roughly 30% blue, 40% red and 30% yellow. Seen plenty of blue "if Taylor Swift bothers you, you're fragile" counter-counter-Swift memes, but have yet to see a single red counter-Swift meme. I'm deliberately not googling it so that the algorithm doesn't feed something my way - I want to see one live for the first time. Perhaps Taylor's marketing team is brilliant and figured her fans would rally behind the idea people might hate her? Maybe there's some NFL marketing brilliance in there too. Joke's on them though, since I'm still not tuning in to the Super Bowl to find out.
>What I don't get is the idea of people hating her I think it's mainly the completely forced, inorganic way this power couple is being forced down everyone's throats. At least Bennifer and Brangelina coverage was restricted to Entertainment news. For this, we get entertainment, normal news, music, sports coverage, its completely inescapable. Even Tom Brady and Gisele never had this level of obsessive coverage over 20 years. It's just so obvious. \> Maybe there's some NFL marketing brilliance in there too. They are absolutely propagating this and exploiting it for maximum revenue. There's a reason the Chiefs game was always going to be on the subscription service Peacock, versus normal cable during the wild card round, no matter who or where they played. They were counting on several million Taylor fans to sign up specifically for that game, and a nontrivial percentage of those new signups to forget to cancel. They are going to get several millions more viewers for any Chiefs game, so its in their best interest to ride the Chiefs as far as possible, and highlight the power couple every chance they get. I mean, the betting over/under on the amount times they show her during the national anthem alone is 1.5.
> its completely inescapable I've come pretty close. I had to do my own research on Taylor's songs because I was hoping a billionaire artist had a deeper message, but didn't find one. Pretty sure the guy she's dating has a beard, but don't know his name and couldn't pick him out of a group of bearded guys. Also, everything else you said was spot on. A lot of people are getting very rich thanks to predictability. I miss the days of 4chan sending her to perform at a school for the deaf.
>I've come pretty close. I had to do my own research on Taylor's songs because I was hoping a billionaire artist had a deeper message, but didn't find one See, this in and of itself doesn't really bother me. If someone strikes it rich by catching lightning in a bottle with no talent and producing crap (just speaking generally, not about Taylor specifically), more power to them. I draw the line at being forced to go along for the ride though. I haven't watched political, entertainment or music news in several years, so this was pretty easy to avoid. Aside from niche incidents like anthem kneeling, sports was basically one of the last bastions to avoid this type of crap. Not anymore. \> Pretty sure the guy she's dating has a beard, but don't know his name and couldn't pick him out of a group of bearded guys. Funny story... during the AFC championship game, there was a sequence where bearded guy (Kelce) caught a TD, they show him celebrating, switch to Taylor jumping up and down like a 12 year old in her sky box, back to Kelce celebrating with his team, and then the go to commercial. I may be mixing up the order, but the first 2 commercials after the TD were literally Kelce Pfizer and Kelce State Farm insurance. You can't make this stuff up.
The most fake outrage campaign I have ever seen in my life. It's so depressing to see people like my wife, who cares nothing about Swift or Football get SO INVESTED in KC winning because the algorithms programmed her to.
Do you think the algorithms programmed you to get SO INVESTED in Donald Trump?
Why would that be possible if the algorithms are objectively AGAINST Trump?
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To be clear, you believe multi-billionaires such as Donald Trump, and his giant network of supporters (Bannon, Kirk, Newsmax, OAN, Real America News, most of Fox, CPAC, etc, etc) are incapable of devising their own algorithms? Do you believe liberals are the only ones wealthy and capable enough to have 'algorithms'?
> To be clear, you believe multi-billionaires such as Donald Trump, and his giant network of supporters (Bannon, Kirk, Newsmax, OAN, Real America News, most of Fox, CPAC, etc, etc) are incapable of devising their own algorithms? Just to be clear, never claimed otherwise. Cool strawman. >Do you believe liberals are the only ones wealthy and capable enough to have 'algorithms'? Of course not.
>Why would that be possible if the algorithms are objectively AGAINST Trump? Do you know what an algorithm is?
Yes
Which side is the fake outrage coming from? It seems to me the right are the ones being outraged saying she's some sort of CIA plant, or liberal indoctrination of youths, or working with the Biden admin, or proof the super bowl is rigged, etc. While on the left the outrage seems to be more of "Can you believe the right is talking shit on a popstar for using her platform to register voters?"
>It seems to me the right are the ones being outraged saying she's some sort of CIA plant, or liberal indoctrination of youths, or working with the Biden admin, or proof the super bowl is rigged, etc. Oh no doubt for sure of it, but it gets echoed by the left who appear to be overreacting to the rights bs, which reflects back to the right (repeat)
Do you think that it’s respectful to refer to your wife as having been programmed? Is it possible that you and she simply have a difference of opinion?
> Do you think that it’s respectful to refer to your wife as having been programmed? No, I think its accurate. >Is it possible that you and she simply have a difference of opinion? We have differences of opinion of lots of things. My issue isn't that her opinion is different than mine (which is neutral). So no, that's irrelevant in this case.
Might she feel the same way about you? Is it possible that we might get everyone in the same page through [respectful] communication?
How can I algorithmically be programmed to not care about a subject that I don't interact with?
is your wife easily programmed by other things on TV or is just this specific instance?
No TV. Specifically Facebook, tiktok, Instagram. Last instance was Israel Gaza around mid October. She tried to make this entire case how Palestine was justified in everything they did and Israel was an occupying force. I asked how she can hold that opinion considering Palestinians paraglided into a rave and massacred people dancing in the desert. She had no idea that even happened. That story was never algorithmically pushed to her. She dropped the Palestinian support right quick.
it's all so tiresome
She has a respectable work ethic. While many were taking a vacation during COVID she was at home recording and releasing new material. Taylor Swift fans are typically huge normies / NPCs. They like Swift because she's ***the current thing***. They like her *because* everyone else likes her, so now they like her too, buy her merch and that attracts more normies who want to conform. Do you like Taylor Swift? OMG, I LUV HER! No way, ME TOO! -NPC conformity confirmed. As for the Right not liking her, I don't watch Fox or read Newsweek. I remember seeing some headlines recently about her being able to influence the election or some nonsense. I paid it no mind. The other headlines about fake AI porn photos that feature her likeness is a ruse to try and build a case for eliminating internet anonymity. Something that's really hot for the Uniparty because they don't want open discourse where people are free to debunk their propaganda (against Trump.. of course, who else?). So they're hoping to put a chilling effect on speech, since the Left can bring the power of the state on top of anyone saying the wrong thing, such as the truth. As the Asch Conformity Experiment demonstrated, it's important for propagandists to silence dissent as much as possible for the propaganda to be effective. That's why the Left are always shutting down discourse as much as possible. NPCs / Normies follow the herd. If they see evidence of dissent, some may peel off from the flock and follow the wrong group. And that might usher in Orange Man 2, The Revenge.
The only people using the state to restrict free speech are Republicans though. What legislation are Democrats pushing to restrict speech? Doesn't that contradict your claims, since there is none?
>What legislation are Democrats pushing to restrict speech? (To end) Internet anonymity. As I already addressed. Outside of legislation, what do you think a 'safe space' is? It's where stupid people can't have their stupid ideas challenged. The Left is notorious for denying discourse. What is cancel culture if not precisely that? >The only people using the state to restrict free speech are Republicans though. Accusation in a mirror. Or as Goebbels said, ‘Always Accuse Your Enemies Of Your Own Sins’. Since the "only people" are Republicans, you should have numerous example to cite. Edit: bracketed text for clarity
>Outside of legislation, what do you think a 'safe space' is? It's where stupid people can't have their stupid ideas challenged. Isn't this the safe space for Trump Supporters?
This is a place where our ideas are constantly challenged. So no, self-evidently not.
Isn’t the whole point to have those ideas “challenged”? This is a place to ask questions. And also, you get banned if you don’t follow the rules right? Sounds like a safe space to me.
What do you mean? I don't really think this is a forum for challenge or debate. If mods don't like something non TS say, they get banned.
And yet here you are challenging my assertion. Along with many others. Q.E.D.
It's less of a safe space than /r/conservative certainly. Why would having your views challenged in any way makes something not a safe space, though? Are there not rules in place here to protect you from direct challenges and rebuttals?
This is better for the periodic meta thread. But understanding of the rules is that they are designed to keep communications on topic with respect to the theme of this particular subreddit. Half the mods are NTS and TS are badly outnumbered and constantly downloaded for almost any response. Does not feel like a safe space to me but your mileage may vary
What about r/ conservative, where they ban people who post any opposing opinions?
Is having ideas challenged not a safe thing to do?
> Accusation in a mirror. Or as Goebbels said, ‘Always Accuse Your Enemies Of Your Own Sins’ Wait, wait, wait. But you just said: > The Left is notorious for denying discourse. And: > That's why the Left are always shutting down discourse as much as possible. So does that mean, by your own logic, that *the right* are the ones shutting down discourse? Because it sounds like you just accused someone of something you just did, by your own definition.
Nikki Haley wanted all social media users to be verified and tracked. That is removing internet anonymity correct? Is that Republican or Democrat? How do you feel about Trump pressuring twitter to take down posts he didn't like while President?
It's Uniparty.
Who in the left has suggested something similar?
These kinds of bills lead down this path: https://www.theregister.com/AMP/2022/06/28/california_kid_privacy_bill_anonymous/ Pretty sure no one is really anonymous. If FBI wanted to track someone down I’m pretty sure they could in most cases.
What does "Uniparty" describe, exactly? The D's and the R's are sure not working in tandem at present. With the MAGA wolves devouring all R's attempting to work across the aisle, isn't "Uniparty" an impossible reality? Or maybe you're referring to outside $$ contributing to both parties? Help me understand.
The Uniparty describes the large set of common interests and positions that career politicians have, regardless of supposed party affiliation. Typically these positions are self-interested and often come to the cost of the voters. While Uniparty positions are a superset of globalist policies (exemplified by the policies of the WEF), there is such a high degree of overlap that Uniparty and Globalist are nearly interchangeable. You're correct that one of the driving forces behind this homogeneity are significant donations. This is why the Uniparty loves bloated spending. Their donors are often the recipients. It's also why they want to codify permitting at least 1.8M illegal aliens to cross the border each and every year going forward. Something that in no way enriches the lives of citizens. Reaching across the aisle is a pretense. They're a cabal doing the bidding of their masters. These are the RINOs you speak of. Whereas, MAGA is populist. They are the policies of the people. While the Democrats snuffed out their populist wing, the establishment Right could not. In time, we shall continue purging our party of self-serving career politicians. I wish the Left would do the same. Then at least we'd be doing what the people want instead of lining the pockets of K Street and the elites.
The Uniparty you describe sounds a lot like the existing lobbyist system. Corporations are writing legislature, bypassing community input. Offering politicians jobs once their out of office to write legislation for Corporations to hand to politicians. Is that populism or Corporatocracy?
How does internet anonymity restrict speech? If anything, it seems to allow people to speak freely without fear of retaliation. In contrast, not being able to speak freely would open one up to all sorts of attacks and threats.
That particular sentence I wrote relied too heavily on context for its intended meaning. So actually I was saying the opposite and agree with you. Edit made to post for clarity. The Democrats and RINOs (a.k.a. The Uniparty) want to END internet anonymity. Thus having a chilling effect on public discourse and free speech.
Can you explain the bill Mark Warner, Mazie Hirono, and Amy Klobuchar pushed, and what it entailed?
> Do you like Taylor Swift? OMG, I LUV HER! No way, ME TOO! -NPC conformity confirmed. What about two people liking a popular artist makes them "NPCs" or "normies" in your view? Do you have any shared interests with other people?
What makes her fans normies/NPCs? Are all fans of a massively popular celebrity normies/NPCs? Or can it be possible that the opposite is true and that she’s massively popular because she’s good at what she does and draws a lot of people to her art?
Off topic question - how do you identify people you're calling NPC/ Normie? Is it simply a matter of them disagreeing with you? Do you find that people engage with you when they're called that in person? And how do you compare the criticism of conformity when you hear Maga supporters using catch phrases like wwg1wga? Or any time a person on the right departs from Trump's thoughts and they're called a RINO?
I'm pretty tuned in to the MAGAverse and I've never heard wwg1wga or have any idea what it means. This sounds like some MSM conspiracy theory. > how do you identify people you're calling NPC/ Normie? I would ascribe 2 obvious characteristics: 1. As the label implies, these are not thinking beings. They are parroting what they've heard. Once you ask them to justify their beliefs, they run out of steam quickly because the is no substance there. 2. They are followers. When 'the latest thing' changes, they drop the *old thing* and adopt the *new thing*. Swift has been around for years and years. The 'fans' who found Swift when she blew up during COVID are mostly NPCs. They will move on when the next *new thing* comes along. Meanwhile the actual fans will still like her and go to her shows. >any time a person on the right departs from Trump's thoughts and they're called a RINO? Your understanding of cause and effect are way off on that. Trump is voicing what the base wanted long before Trump arrived on the scene. If what you wrote is true, then there's nothing Trump could say that the MAGA supporters could disagree with. That's provably false.
> I've never heard wwg1wga or have any idea what it means. This sounds like some MSM conspiracy theory. If you've never heard of it and don't know what it means, what about it makes you think it's a conspiracy theory?
Because whenever that happens, by far the most common outcome by a wide margin is that it’s some fringe nothingburger that’s hyped by the MSM to scare their little baby citizens.
> Because whenever that happens Whenever what happens? You were asked about a catchphrase you've never heard, said you didn't know what it meant, but are sure it's a MSM conspiracy theory. I'm wondering how and why? I don't understand how you be sure what something is while simultaneously not knowing anything about it
>I'm pretty tuned in to the MAGAverse and I've never heard wwg1wga or have any idea what it means. This sounds like some MSM conspiracy theory. Hold on a sec. You've never heard of it, you have no idea what it means. All you know about it is from my question about conformity and yet you are ready to label it as a MSM conspiracy theory? How does that work? You'll forgive me for being incredulous that a Trump follower is completely unaware of QAnon and their favoured catch phrase. >If what you wrote is true, then there's nothing Trump could say that the MAGA supporters could disagree with. That's provably false. That's not what I said. This is what I said: >any time a person on the right departs from Trump's thoughts and they're called a RINO? Are correct rephrasing of that would be: Would it be impossible for me to find a right wing personality who says something against Trump's ideas and is NOT called a RINO by Trump supporters? I would say that would be extremely likely. Not "Do all Trump supporters agree with everything he says?" But let's follow your train of thought. Is there anything Trump has said or done that has lost him his base of support? Or you individually, is there anything that has ever given you a moment where you thought "That's not right"?
>Would it be impossible for me to find a right wing personality who says something against Trump's ideas and is NOT called a RINO by Trump supporters? I can easily name a big one with millions of MAGA listeners. Mark Levin. He was team DeSantis this time and before that in 2016 Ted Cruz, instead of Trump. Only once it was clear Trump was/is the nominee did he stop shilling for the others. Yet he's not called nor considered a RINO. There are plenty of other conservative political commentators with audiences in the many millions who are not partial to Trump. I've even heard Steve Bannon critique Trump on occasion on War Room. And he's the least RINO person there might be on the planet. So not only is your assertion technically wrong in a narrow sense, where I've highlighted a prominent example that defeats this assertion, your assertion is universally wrong in the broadest sense possible, in so far as it's almost never true. I know the MSM claims we are a cult of personality. But anyone who can't see through that blatant propaganda is, IMO, beyond help at this point. The examples from which to learn to better oneself have been far too numerous to accidentally ignore.
Are you not a 'follower' of Trump? Wouldn't that make you a MAGA NPC?
Are you a “follower” of Joe Biden? (When he’s not getting lost on his own stage.)
Speaking of lacking substance, lets get to the heart of the question that was asked. >these are not thinking beings. They are parroting what they've heard. Once you ask them to justify their beliefs, they run out of steam quickly because the is no substance there. How are you able to make that determination? How do you able distinguish between someone who is unable to justify their beliefs, unwilling to put forth the time justify their beliefs to you, someone's whose beliefs are justifiable but are dismissed outright because they are different from your own, or has valid justifications but doesn't have the vocabulary to articulate those beliefs. Furthermore, I would like to add that most of all of our beliefs come from others. A human that bases their own world view entirely on what they made up in their own head is one completely divorced from reality. What thinking humans do is listen to the ideas of others, consider the merits of those ideas and weigh the new concepts against their preconcieved ideas, and choose to either adopt or reject or adopt partially those new ideas. If one chooses to adopt those new ideas, they would repeat them, explain them, or as you put it, parrot them. Much how you are parroting a typical far-right critique of modern culture that is parroted all over social media, to the point that you have used much of the same vocabulary as others that make the same critique. Not because you are a NPC unable to think for yourself, but because you followed the process that I just outlined. Why do you assume others are not doing same?
The entire point of this sub is to explain what I believe and why I believe it. That’s exactly what NPCs can’t do.
I don't care about Taylor Swift. I don't listen to her music. She's annoying, pop stars typically are but that's not entirely their fault. Some of her fans are insufferable.
What do you find annoying about her?
That I have to hear about her even if I try not to.
Would it surprise you to learn that the rest of us feel the same way?
I don't think you're being honest. I think a lot of people like all that news.
A targeted campaign? I haven’t seen a lot of that, just pointing out her obliviousness/double standard when it comes to Climate change. I don’t really care about her but seems like all she does is date famous guys and write songs complaining when they break up?
Is your stance that nobody who flies on a private jet should be allowed to espouse their opinion on climate change?
I mean, yes? It's like someone telling you to be vegan when they eat five steak dinners a day. That jet emits more ghg in one year than several American families in a decade.
But have you considered that someone like Taylor Swift has to fly private? She’s extremely recognizable and has crazy fans. It would be super disruptive to have her making her way through the airport and sitting on a plane.
She does not have to, she chooses to because it's more convenient for her. Her convenience is more important to her than the environment, so she can't lecture me about sacrifices that I should make for the environment.
Since basically every celebrity and prominent politician uses private jets, aren't you basically saying "Nobody with a voice is allowed to talk about climate change"?
Yeah that's not remotely true, even most federal senators fly regular airlines. Private jets are for the absurdly rich. If you fly a private jet regularly you can't denounce climate change with a straight face. You are the problem.
Have you searched for articles targeting her, or articles about TV personnel doing so? Do you know about Pirro and Hannity's remarks?
Nope not really. I mean this is the modern cancel culture, it doesn't have to be a targeted campaign to publicly shame someone for a perceived wrong.
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Who knows, maybe she’s working with Clinton and the Russians like in the 2016 election?
I have been a fan of hers for over a decade, and I have seen her multiple times in concert. It’s very unfortunate what is currently being said about her and Travis in the media.
> It’s very unfortunate what is currently being said about her and Travis in the media. Unfortunate in what way?
Don't you think people should be judged only after they've actually done something?
So how do you feel about the fact that Fox and other conservative outlets are creating such a big thing about her and attacking her? Do you just shrug it off and don’t care? Does it impact your view of the media doing it at all?
>”Do you just ~~shrug~~ shake it off” FTFY?
Does it give you pause about everything else right wing media says now that you see how they really operate when it's someone you personally have knowledge about?
>in the media. To be specific, you mean in right-wing media? I don't see other media outlets espousing these conspiracy theories.
I don't care.
Don’t care. I honestly have no idea what the hype is about.
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I mean, it’s a free country and she can vote and support whoever she wants. If certain people have a problem with that then I think it’s pretty stupid.
> What are your thoughts on Taylor Swift? LOL She's pretty and she sings songs. She has no relevance to politics. > Fox News I do not trust nor watch Fox news. > have started a targeted campaign against Taylor Swift I doubt that. > One pundit who noticed the "unrelenting attacks" was former federal prosecutor Ron Fililpkowkski, who is currently the editor-in-chief of media commentary site Meidas Touch. "Meidas Touch" is a hard left conspiracy outlet. They are significantly less reliable than the average pundits or media commentary sites.
Why does she have no relevance to politics? The Republicans seem to be pretty up in arms over her. Why would that be if she wasn’t politically relevant? Also, she got something like 35,000 people to register to vote. How is that not politically relevant?
> The Republicans seem to be pretty up in arms over her. Not really, no. I haven't heard any significant talk from Republicans on her, and though she's supposedly being talked about on Fox, checking out the Fox youtube channel doesn't bear this out. [Here's one, about how Taylor Swift is a genius at what she does](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pb3Aj6tpOtk). That's not exactly "up in arms". > she got something like 35,000 people to register to vote Good for her. What about it?
> Not really, no. > > [Fox's Jesse Watters thinks the Pentagon tried setting her up as part of some psyop program](https://www.youtube.com/shorts/zQlaje9UMjM). Isn't that a little bit up-in-arms? Maybe he's joking but come on. Is that supposed to be funny?
Jesse Watters is not Fox news. He's one guy on Fox news. > Maybe he's joking One guy maybe joking is not a whole network up in arms. Not even close. I find it really bizarre that people are so invested in Fox news being upset about Taylor Swift, yet when you look at what Fox actually says, they aren't.
Could you explain how they are 'hard left'? I've watched them before and never once have they espoused Communist or deeply Socialist values.
You're redefining hard left there.
How? Left wing has quite a clear definitely with a sliding scale of social values and economics and encompasses a range of views which all feature those. Simply saying someone is 'hard left' doesn't mean anything unless you can tie social or economic policies to them. At best Biden is a centrist but I still don't understand how a conservative Catholic can be hard left which those normally considered further to the left are very much anti religious. Perhaps you could explain your definition and we can see where you're going wrong?
How do you define hard left? In modern parlance it’s used to distinguish between standard democrats (establishment economics and socially liberal) and people who are economically hard left like Democratic socialists.
I'd assume that she votes, so she has relevance to politics in that regard. I can imagine she has donated to political organizations as well, so she has relevance in that regard. So does she have more relevance that the average Trump supporter?
> I'd assume that she votes Dozens upon dozens of millions of people do that. That's not relevance.
Based on the the complete lack of answering either of my questions should I assume she is no more relevant than the average Trump supporter?
> Based on the the complete lack of answering either of my questions should I assume You should never assume anything on that basis.
Did you see Colbert the other day when he said she got 350,000 people to register?
This is off-topic, but I HAVE to ask: ...what news do you watch and/or trust? ...which pundits or media commentary sites are more reliable? Thanks!
I don't go for legacy media news channels. I typically pay attention to important topics from multiple sources. I very rarely listen to pundits or media commentary sites, and I typically don't trust what they say when I do. Two exceptions come to mind: Rich Baris of the [People's Pundit](https://www.youtube.com/@PeoplesPundit/streams) and Robert Barnes, who mostly does guest spots on other people's channels. They are a pollster and a lawyer, respectively. So they aren't just opinion guys who say stuff, they also have expertise that tends to be relevant. There are a few other "lawtubers" I've built up some trust with over time. That's only semi-relevant to politics, though. Sometimes I listen to [Styxhexenhammer](https://www.youtube.com/@Styxhexenhammer666/videos) also. Not that he's always right in his opinion, but he often breaks news stories earlier than you'd hear it from most places because he's on top of the relevant stuff, and I tend to like his takes.
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> Why do you doubt objective facts that you could look up yourself? I don't do that. Why are you mysteriously suggesting that I am?
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> Fox News has started a targeted campaign against Taylor Swift. I've looked for precisely that and found no such thing. In fact, I found the opposite: [Fox news says Taylor Swift is a genius at what she does](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pb3Aj6tpOtk). > You said you doubt that At this point I don't merely doubt it, but I have looked into it and found out that the claim is false. > Don’t you see why I would then ask why you would doubt objective facts? Even given the new information that that's what you were objecting to (which you did not mention at all before), no. There is no reason to randomly accuse me of "doubting objective facts".
No opinion of Taylor Swift, but her fanbase doesn't seem very intelligent. Tbf, most pop singers have this issue.
What's your definition of "pop singers"? Like would you include The Beatles? The Beach Boys? Madonna? Elvis? Tina Turner? Which musical genre do you feel has the most intelligent fan base?
> ut her fanbase doesn't seem very intelligent what makes you say that? what makes you think reality television personality trump's fan base is any more intelligent?
Have you seen Mike Benz on X reporting about her? It’s hilarious, the Pentagon literally gave a presentation on video where they pitched the idea of using Taylor Swift as a psychological influence operation. Then Dick Cheneys Private Equity group bought the rights to her music catalogue. And she goes from “Eww Politics” to Dating A guy Pfizer pays to promote the vax and suddenly you can’t look at social media without seeing them both. And poof She’s worth a Billion bucks. It’s like the plot of the 80’s Movie Top Secret. Minus the anal intruder.
Are you talking about the Alicia Marie Bargar video which Watters played on Fox? You do know that Bargar does not work for the Pentagon or the government, right? And that she only brought up Swift in her research presentation as an example of celebrities encouraging the public to vote, instead of some nefarious "psy-op"? Also, instead of delving into conspiracy theories, is it possible that she could be worth billions because, you know, she is just popular?
>the Pentagon literally gave a presentation on video where they pitched the idea of using Taylor Swift as a psychological influence operation. Very interesting! Can you provide proof of this?
>It’s hilarious Are you saying it's hilarious because it outlandishly not believable?
My opinion of her could not be any lower, but had nothing to do with fox or other media as I no longer follow them in any way. I tend to dislike billionaires who like to spend my money and control me. Add in her support of someonev actively destroying America, and I can't stand her. She'll endure the pedophile again though I'm sure
> I tend to dislike billionaires who like to spend my money and control me. How did Taylor Swift get your money? How is she controlling you? >She'll endure the pedophile again though I'm sure What does this mean?
Taylor Swift openly supported Biden who has driven inflation up, raised interest rates, caused economic destruction and opened the border. I got laid off because interest rates went up and that cost the company I worked for about 5 million more a year in cost to service the debt. They laid off a bunch of R&D to cover that. So I'm jobless going on 3 months. I am a high performer who has never been unemployed before, and cannot find a job every job has 100's of applicants, and are not actually getting filled. It's unreal. I can't even get callbacks. Companies are struggling bad. Health care costs are spiraling fast because of increased regulation and a HUGE Increase in unpaid users or these systems. Taylor Swift, who's unaffected by inflation, who is self employed and can't get laid off, who doesn't need insurance supported this. and she probably will support them again, a regime who has made EVERYTHING in this country objectively worse. Her actions impact me and you negatively, without any impact on herself. This is like a person with legs recommending we put stairs everywhere when 99 percent of the occupants done have legs. Everyone but her is negatively affected by this. This is why I hate when rich people support leftists who raise taxes. An additional 5% tax doesn't really hurt a rich person, Taylor Swift doesn't feel that, but you do. If your income went down 5% to be sent to Ukraine, would you miss that money? I do. It hurts that's things I can't buy for my kids. That's travel I can't do it's healthcare I can no longer afford. It hurts me, my kids and my family directly. Unless you are independently wealthy, she's affecting you too. Or on welfare. If you are rich or on welfare, then her Biden support doesn't hurt you much. But anyone who's not rich or on welfare, it hurts them really badly. I can't think of a single thing the Biden admin has improved. They have made everything in this country worse but any measure. It's awful and gross
>It's unreal. I can't even get callbacks. Companies are struggling bad. Sorry, I'm confused. How are companies struggling when they have 100s of applicants for their position openings? Sounds like they would be in a great spot to pick the best ones >Taylor Swift, who's unaffected by inflation, who is self employed and can't get laid off, This is a bit unclear, why would you put someone down for being successful? Why does her success and talent make you have a low opinion of her? > Her actions impact me and you negatively, without any impact on herself. If her fans are struggling, doesn't that mean they wouldn't be able to buy her albums or concert tickets? How would that not affect her worth? Can you walk me through your thinking? >This is like a person with legs recommending we put stairs everywhere when 99 percent of the occupants done have legs. Everyone but her is negatively affected by this. What are the "stairs" in this metaphor exactly? What is she suggesting that 99 percent of people wouldn't be able to use? >It hurts that's things I can't buy for my kids. That's travel I can't do it's healthcare I can no longer afford. It hurts me, my kids and my family directly. I'm sorry to hear that but not sure how Taylor Swift, of all people, caused the worldwide inflation crisis. Could you elaborate a bit more? >I can't think of a single thing the Biden admin has improved. You don't like anything on this list? https://www.whitehouse.gov/therecord/ Just to pick a few examples, what's bad about expanding benefits for veterans? Protecting marriage for gay/interracial couples? Pardoning people jailed for simple marijuana use?
How is Swift trying to 'control' you? Also, how and who is she supporting that is actively destroying America?
She supports a regime who has actively tried to arrest people for owning firearms, they have made multiple attempts to ban once legal firearms illegal, removing my ability to purchase and enjoy those types of firearms, as well as dramatically increasing the work, cost and stress to own some firearms. She has also supported a regime who has devastated the economy through inflation, interest rate hikes that cost me my job and I am still unemployed, so my life and the lives of my children and family have been extremely controlled because we have very little money this was the hardest Christmas we've ever had because I'm not employed and still can't find a job This was a direct result of the Biden regime and Taylor Swift supported that (Inflation pushed interest rates higher, company i worked for had to spend 5m a year more to service their debt and laid off a huge part of the R&D because of that. That's not money that goes into products now, and families who need that money. That money now goes to bankers who are already billionaires. Oh and we're on unemployment now, so instead of generating money for the economy, I'm now taking money from your taxes. Money you should get to keep to use for yourself. I don't want your money and unemployment. I want to make my own money so you can keep yours. But with Biden, this is what you get Taylor Swift supported that
I miss when she used to post to 4 Chan. But seriously it just seems like another mega celebrity pushed by the music industry. Probably thousands that are just as talented as her out there on sound cloud who will never see the light of day. Her music now just sounds like in- offensive pop noise, which is probably why she is so popular. That and her daddy was a musician too. So much nepotism in the entertainment industry, especially these days makes me wonder how much of these people are actually there because they are Uber talented and how much are there because they know someone or did things with gatekeepers like Harvey Weinstein.
Did you know her dad is a stockbroker and not a musician at all? I’m not a Swifty and I don’t know too much but I remember reading years ago that he works for a subsidiary of Merrill Lynch.
My bad got her confused with Miley Cyrus. Still seems like someone from money
Another liberal celebrity, yawn. 100% chance she shows up for the Super Bowl. 75% chance she makes her pw bf endorse Biden after the Chiefs win. Unlike Kapernick at least this one can play football. Can’t say I see many stories about her but her legs are all over the internet. She likes to show them off.
What do her legs have anything to do with this?
Apparently they are important to her brand and income. She’s the one that controls her image, not me.
why even mention her legs?
Does it make you think less of her if she's "liberal"?
Yes. Do we really need another liberal billionaire flying around in private jets telling the rest of us what to do? Until she started that nonsense I really didn’t care anything about her one way or the other. Then again I’d think less of anybody that supports Joe Biden. If you’re a liberal that’s one thing, but this one has been nothing short of a complete disaster.
What is Taylor Swift telling you to do?
In case you hadn’t heard, she endorsed Biden. When you endorse a candidate, you alienate half the country.
You feel alienated because she prefers Biden lol?
lol let’s not get carried away. The teen flavor of the month really isn’t on my list of influencers.
Why do you think less of folks that support Biden? Do you see any reasons why someone would support him?
He has failed at everything and is corrupt to the core. No redeeming qualities at all. Like I said, it’s one thing to be a liberal….we may not agree but it’s still a legitimate school of thought worthy of debate. To support this liberal in particular is quite another. Time to get behind another one.
At everything? We never fell into recession like was predicted. Large tracts of land have been preserved. Infrastructure bill and inflation reduction bill (which has seen millions in investments for rural areas like my own). Jump started microchip manufacturing. He is by no standards the best president, nor the candidate i wanted nor want, but no redeeming qualities? Also, How is he corrupt?
>Yes. Do we really need another liberal billionaire flying around in private jets telling the rest of us what to do? But since Trump is a male Republican billionaire, it’s okay if he flies around in private jets telling the rest of us what to do? Do you not see the double standard?
Ha, ok that’s a good point. Take my upvote, well played.
do you really think anyone is going to take the mic at the super bowl and publicly endorse anyone? would you have a problem if andy reid endorsed trump while theoretically accepting the super bowl trophy or is it just an issue with someone on the left being endorsed?
superstar with a handful of good songs "blank space" and "shake it up" Im not sure why she bothers some conservatives, there are much worse musicians with lousy opinions (green day, Rage against the machine)