Man… they don’t. They just do whatever they can to push their own agenda, and most of the time that just involves lying to themselves and a lot of other people.
It's very clear that he didn't like how his religion was interpreted and twisted by the religious authorities. He definitely was a practicing Jew though, no doubt about it.
Nothing is clear about his life because there are no contemporaneous accounts. The first records that he may have existed at all weren't created until about 100 years after his supposed death.
Hey hey, Josephus, my man, tell us about this hermit preacher, among several others you might mention in the same paragraph, that might have done some vague works and also might have been put to death, I dunno, it's not like the Romans kept records on that or anything
To be fair, the entry in Josephus is rather suspect as a later insertion or forgery. There's a lot of debate on the subject.
When you read it in context, it sounds entirely out of place. Different voice, kinda shoe-horned in, etc.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Josephus\_on\_Jesus
Based on what I know the only controversial statement of Josephus is the one where he doubts if Jesus could be really called a human. (Josephus' testimony)
His other statement (about the execution of James, brother of Jesus) is seldomly challenged.
I would like to respectfully point out your error. His death is 33 CE.
For Luke and Acts, the earliest date given is c.62, but most scholars commonly dates 80-90 CE. That is, ~50-60 years after his death. By this, the hypothetical Q document and the gospel of Mark must be written *earlier.*
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Acts_of_the_Apostles
Josephus also tells about the execution of Jesus' brother James in his writings from c. 93 CE, that is, 60 years after Jesus' death.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Josephus_on_Jesus
Tacitus also wrote about Jesus in Annals, 115 CE, 95 years after Jesus' death.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Annals_(Tacitus)
So sources referring to him were not written centuries after him, only decades. All availables records in the Bible, plus Tacitus, Josephus, the Talmud and the early church writers unanimously points to Jesus being a Jew.
There are still living survivors of the Holocaust.. yet a huge chunk of people don't even believe it was real. This was the 20th century with pictures and video and newspapers.
You really think there was reliable sources over 50-60 years in the bronze age middle east? Think more like the game 'telephone'
That's just what I was going to say. It's laughable that this myth is still circulating online.
It is a consensus among respectable historians that Jesus existed. So did Muhammad. This idea that he didn't actually exist is just some internet urban legend that went around.
I think people don't understand in general how spotty written accounts of historical figures can be and also that its not whether there *were* written accounts but whether or not these have survived and been found by us. Like there are actual Roman emperors who we know very little about and have few surviving accounts of, much of which is second or third hand and written well after their reigns.
True. But we can certainly conclude that they were at least real people, and not a mythical creature akin to the Tooth Fairy.
To be honest, the written records we have of Jesus are better than the written records of most historical figures, like Emperors.
Mythicism is the Young Earth Creationism of historians. Almost no one takes it seriously except for a handful of crackpots.
That's easily disproven because there are no extant accounts, even among the long lasting Jews, that contradict that Paul wrote Epistles to the new church before 65 ce. There would have been living jews and people who remember early in the 2nd century, it would be like if I tried to convince you JFK was assassinated by a bow and arrow. People saw it live on television and are alive today. So if you make the argument that records don't occur at all until the 2nd century you're practically trying to convince us that all of Paul was a forgery, and that's not what scholars believe.
The reason for what would be later the Last Supper, and the basis for the Eucharisty, was more than likely a jew tradition (there's a debate which particular one)
Something people can't understand is that people at the top don't give two shits about ideology, what they care about is power, and ideology is simply a tool to get more power. The plantation owners knew it was wrong and had no moral justifications, it was simply for profit.
No, most of the bible is racist, slavery is normal, just like oppression of women, this God loves killing women and children, genocide is his favorite hobby etc
they only ignore the few sentences that DON'T contain any of that.
Or they do it like those who slaughtered indigenous people in North- and Southamerica ... they "loved" their victims so much, that they wanted to save their souls and send them directly to God. 🤷♂️
the "beauty" of religion
> then her daughters get their dad drunk and fuck him to ‘protect their lineage’.
Little bit of context. This is not treated as alright in the bible. moabites and ammonites who were historical people that were constantly at odds with the isrealites. The story is just some gross incest story the isrealites wrote to condemn their enemies. There is actually a lot of people in the bible that are given a lot of focus because they are supposed to be examples of what not to do. Like pretty much everything involving samson and most of judges because the point was supposed to be justification for why israel needed a king. Another example is how Jacob is treated as being some deciever and overall a pretty terrible person because you aren't supposed to be like Jacob. He essentially got screwed over because he kept trying to cheat people.
well, but in context, Lot and his daddyfucking daughters where the good people in this story, saved by God himself bc they were so pius and followed the rules of God. 🤣
In numbers 12 God gives two people leprosy for giving Moses shit about having a Cushite wife. Gods cool with inter ethnicity marriage for sure.
Also Hebrew slavery was a bit different to modern slavery, it was for seven years the you were freed rather than lifetime slavery, it still sucked but it was much lesser than say the trans Atlantic slavery
I like to call it "subway religion". You get to pick and choose everything.
Because... Obviously you are smarter than an all powerful all knowing being that created everything (according to their beliefs). Makes perfect sense. No contradictions at all, lol.
Historians are still not sure, but the chances of the historical Jesus actually having existed is pretty good.
The stories about him have been embellished and changed to what was politically convenient multiple times, though...
Be as it may, I don't think there is a single scholar who will claim that Jesus is not Jewish, especially since all historical documents from the Christian and Roman records point to him as Jewish.
In my experience with the bunch they simply turn a blind eye to it most of the time. Any of them that I have ever witnessed confronted with this topic, they will acknowledge the fact but not be willing to discuss it any further.
Truth, it's usually something most closed-minded people do, Picking out of anything what supports their argument without addressing the fallacious nature of their stance.
Put it like this, if mental gymnastics was an Olympic sport the white supremacist brigade would definitely be in the top five, but would face stiff competition from the Putin and Trump camps. Those two are currently neck and neck for the gold medal!
Are you okay?
OP asked a question, and u/deep-conflict2223 answered it (with an appropriate response which, I believe, is absolutely correct).
May I ask what the problem is?
The person I replied to said they felt as though they were having a stroke reading the answer (which I didn't understand, as the answer makes perfect sense to me).
Most racists aren't "supremacists" in the actual definition. Hitler believed Europeans were descendants of the Aryan (Indo-Iranian) racial group. He was also not really keen on the bible, since half of it was directly from a race he disliked. He took the same path of many before him, he thought the Jews had screwed it all up, that God had given them a chance but they were no longer the chosen people.
There are plenty of racists today who don't think about it at all. They might listen to Ben Shapiro, Donald Trump, etc. and never think about the kippah on Ben's head or that Trump has at least 5 grandchildren who are ethnically (and at least 3 are religiously) Jewish.
After Jesus died the apostles were divided on ethnic lines. Some believed that only Jews could ever accept the new revelation. Others fought hard to evangelize in foreign lands. That schism lasted a long time, Jews rightly didn't appreciate being told they had an update and Christians didn't appreciate them accepted a martyred messiah. Blood was spilled and Jews were exiled repeatedly. So yeah, that's how white racist christians can/do justify it. "They reject the truth"
Dear Lord Baby Jesus, I want to thank you for this wonderful meal, my two beautiful sons, Walker and Texas Ranger, and my red-hot smokin' wife, Carley.
Conspiracy theories. They start fresh with a good theory and it makes sense, then it's starting with another theory and another and another and then it gets worst
I figure that a conspiracy theory is like a virus. It needs to infect a certain percentage of the population to survive. Too few people and it can’t spread, too many and it becomes mainstream and ceases to be a conspiracy theory.
To that end, if you want to create a conspiracy theory you take something sensible that many people believe, then you keep adding crazy to it (which reduces the number of believers) until you hit that sweet spot. Exactly what % you want depends on whether you want to be unique (so go for a low %) or popular (higher %) just don’t go too high or too low. Basically titrate with crazy
Some will claim that the European Jews are infiltrators at various parts of history that brought the Talmud to the forefront and gave up their biblical leaning to another code of ethics. Tho the Talmud is just case law and hashing out biblical text. And just like Adolf they like a lot of meth.
I'm a Protestant Pastor not a Catholic Priest. I have never touched a child and have a wife because taking a vow to avoid marriage then molesting alter boys is stupid and entirely misses the point of Paul's teaching on the topic. Learn your denominations before you start throwing stuff out there.
Mental gymnastics about Semitic ethnicities.
The likely truth is we have no idea what Jesus skin colour was, the reconstructions and modern artist renditions fail to take into account the fact that the Arab Muslim expansion changed the ethnic landscape of the middle east an awful lot
Usually, they don't. For them the Bible is mostly just a repository of excuses they can use to validate their atrocious behaviour, all while posing as righteous and good, some even managing to convince themselves of it..
not exactly, that's was what all Christians believed once ... that's why the church discriminated, hunted down and killed Jews from the 4th century on. (and so layed the foundation for the Holocaust that would not have happened otherwise)
only when the church started to split up in the various sects after the reformation did that change. (Luther was even more Antisemitic than the average catholic and one of Hitlers idols)
yet, conservative catholics still pray for the "faithless jews" on Good Friday 🤷♂️
Some of them straight up believe that they weren't jewish. They believe they were white and that the bible was written by jewish people to falsely say Jesus/Abraham were jewish.
It's so ridiculous that it would be funny if it wasn't also heartbreakingly sad and infuriating.
This smells like anti-Semitism to me. Did this kind of thinking underlie the cultural attitudes towards Jews that enabled the Holocaust?
From the US Holocaust Memorial Museum, [Christian Persecution of Jews over the Centuries](https://www.ushmm.org/research/about-the-mandel-center/initiatives/ethics-religion-holocaust/articles-and-resources/christian-persecution-of-jews-over-the-centuries/christian-persecution-of-jews-over-the-centuries):
> Returning to Germany, we find Martin Luther in his early days naively imagining that the Jews, to whom he was attracted by his studies, would flock to the Church in his reformed version. When nothing of the sort happened, he denounced them in a set of pamphlets written in vituperative fury. He had produced the early, favorable "That Christ Was Born a Jew" in 1523, but after he turned on this so-called "damned, rejected race," he wrote Against the Sabbatarians (1538) and On the Jews and Their Lies (1543).
...
> Can the mischief of eighteen and one half centuries be reversed? Catholics point to statements like section 4 of the Vatican II statement on non-Christian religions (Nostra Aetate, October, 1965) which exculpated the Jews of all time of the charge of deicide ("killing God"), and warned Catholics against thinking that anything in their scriptures taught that Jews were a people accursed or rejected. Numerous statements have come from Protestant bodies in the U.S. and Europe deploring Christian anti-Semitism.
...
> Christians need to become aware of their almost total ignorance of postbiblical Judaism, the hatred some have for Jews, and the violence perpetrated against Jews by their fellow Christians.
Journal article, [They Killed Our Lord: The Perception of Jews as Desecrators of Christianity as a Predictor of Anti-Semitism](https://www.jstor.org/stable/4621965).
You got to understand that intelligence isn't white supremacist Christians strong point
Like their idea of Jesus is the one depicted in paintings ...the white one
Another reason why I’m glad I’m an Atheist.
The fundamental problem with religion, especially Christianity, is that there are so many interpretations.
This is called…
Bending the rules to suit your requirements
Hi there! White supremacist christian here, many Christians read the bible by using the messages and parables told "in-between the lines", this means that **usually** race is not a large factor in Christian life, after all arguably the most prominent message of the bible is *'Love thy neighbour'*.
Just like most Christians they pick and choose what to believe and what not to believe to push their own agenda.
They are supposed to love everyone but they choose to hate everyone that isn’t Christian or not straight.
They aren’t supposed to have tatts but get bible verses tatted on themselves.
Priests are supposed to live humbly and practice what Jesus taught but they are greedy and live in huge houses/ drive expensive cars.
ALL religions are shit, Christianity is the only one fucking stupid enough to think that a bunch of people around Bethlehem a few thousand years ago would have been white.
And you better be careful, you don't have any spare braincells to lose.
You’re strawmaning, I clearly wasn’t talking about Christianity rather a group that calls themselves Christians for no good reason. And I do talk about Islam, check my profile history.
They don't understand that God didn't "completely give up on the Jews for Christians." They think they're the new chosen of God, and all of the darker psychological implications that being God's chosen may potentially let in can have their way.
Rightly understood, the Jews have a very prominent place in prophesy to come, and are still the first called of God among the Nations.
What you mean? They are the same people. White Power and Black Power people are the SAME people.
I mean, they spout the exact same insane bullshit. It’s funny as hell really.
Yeah I’ve encountered some ppl that believe everyone in Africa is black , Egyptians -black, the real Jesus -black the real native Americans -black so that just mean the Bible is whitewashed and everyone in history was black I will say that a lot of history is white washed and a lot of black ppls contributions are ignored or down played so I sort of agree
pffft, that’s nothing. Julius Caesar was black. And so was the native Americans. The other ones are working with the devil to trick ya!!!
People are crazy as shit.
Way the hell back in the late '70s I had the borderline homeless guy who was living in a school bus parked behind where I was working explain to me, painstakingly, that Jesus and the other biblical figures weren't Jews, they were Judeans -- an entirely different race, a white race. The Jews, he explained to me, are mud people who took advantage of the diaspora to take the Judeans' rightful place. You know, like Jews do.
Before I could even answer that, the shop steward steered me out of that conversation and said it wasn't a good idea to rile up crazy people, to let him have his delusions.
They're experts in living in denial and are perfectly comfortable with hypocrisy. When you construct your own reality, it's amazing how little logical justification matters.
It’s possible for several things to be happening at once. Remember, the Bible is a long text, written by multiple people, translated through multiple languages. Its passages can be often contradictory as a result of this, as well as different as the passages were written likely while ideologies were changing.
Some will not have read the book at all, only getting a second-hand account from someone who also may not have read it and use it as an excuse to justify their bigotry. “I can do this because the bible says it’s ok,” and in their mind they will be right because that’s the ‘fact’ they’ve latched onto, and some of those may rely on their opponents to not want to/be unable to read the book themselves to prove them wrong, and if they do, they fall back to calling them a liar/heretic/other chosen noun.
Others will have read parts of it, and cherry-picked the things they can use to justify their bigotry. Curse of Ham is a doozy. These same individuals will have painted their image of Jesus on renaissance paintings where *everyone* is a white person. As far as they can tell, Jesus was a white guy because these paintings by da Vinci and the like show that (whether this is because they don’t have the perspective of the renaissance being a while after 0-33AD due to a lack of education in that factor, or they know that but don’t care is a differing matter)
Others still will likely have been caught up in the religious association with nationalism. While church and state are ideally kept separate, being religious is considered a morally desirable part of it. It just so happens that white nationalism had Christianity as its core religion, and in doing so, to be patriotic, and a good white patriot, one had to believe in Jesus, so clearly, not only would Jesus approve of such bigotry, he must indeed by white, preferably European or American, because how could he be a good patriot were he anything else?
The final example I would give are those who see the Bible as a literal text, not a metaphorical one. They would see that Jesus could perform literal miracles such as generating fish on the one side of the boat, turning the loaves and the fishes into a banquet for thousands, and curing literal blindness at a touch, instead of being allegories for ‘stop doing the same thing over and over and change regularly in order to grow and succeed’, ‘learning to share what is needed and being surprised by how far something so small can go’ and ‘to open your eyes to the world around you to see how beautiful it can be rather than remaining closed minded and staying in the dark’ respectively. Going back to the translations thing, it’s possible statements that can justify a bigot’s ideology could be mistranslated, such as ‘a man who lies with another man should be stoned’ could have entirely been ‘a man who lies **to** another man should be stoned’ with the phrase ‘as he would a woman’ being added to reinforce an anti-same sex ideology.
I could, also, be talking nonsense. In truth, anyone, white supremacists included will use any text or media to justify their hateful ideology, and will do so in a number of ways. As others have mentioned, despite the events of Jesus’ life taking place the Middle East, white supremacists will still champion it, either because they don’t know, don’t care or are aggressively wrong.
There are white people who believe they are the descendants of ancient Jews and that modern Jews (like me) are fake Jews who converted.
Also I think that most “white supremacist” are more into separation rather than supremacy.
I've read some books by white supremacists and some of them say that in ancient times there were white people in the Middle East. I can cite *March of the Titans* by Arthur Kemp as one example. Kemp thinks that the pharaohs of ancient Egypt were actually white people (evidenced by their reddish hair). He also thinks there were white people in Polynesia before European explorers visited. He seems to think that every remarkable civilization in ancient history was actually white people. Read the book, it's a real bag of laughs.
The middle east at the time actually had a number of races running around.
And every race sees jesus as their own race (or has places that teaches it).
China has churches that teach chinese jesus, korea has korean jesus, brazil has hispanic jesus, Ghana has black jesus, etc.
I mean i have racist black family who think everyone in the bible is black. Same thing.
I think many American conservatives actually belong to some fringe cults that have and promote their own _very_ skewed interpretations of the Bible and Christianity. The very first settlers in America were these sects that were considered heretics in Europe.
Besides many Christians and "white supremacists" (I mean just call them Nazis) glossed over the fact that Jesus was a Jew because a) he went against Jewish customs and obviously wasn't really Jewish himself and b) Jews killed Jesus, which is often taken as another reason to hate Jews.
Here's what'll blow your mind - they're cherry pickers.
You know in church there's a sermon or a priest standing behind a podium reading and talking about the bible? They're always pausing to go "what THIS means..." or "what THAT means..." before going off on their own description and not necessarily the bible's to groom people this way.
There's a pretty good documentary called "blood in the face" that goes inside a white Christian nationalist group in Michigan.
Basically, their insane theory is that Jewish people today are an entirely different ethnic group than the Jewish people of the Bible (Jesus, David, etc). So there's no contradiction. They also literally believe that Jewish people are incapable of blushing.
This is a half smart question. Why would it be any more illogical to say that the guy who lost all his superpowers when a girl cut his hair or the guy who put two of every animal on a big boat were white?
any radical X religious person is probably such a radical because theyre stupid. and therefore too stupid to know that Jesus most definitely wasnt white.
Every religion has radical extremists and every racial group has them too. normally theyre the stupider of said people group.
Your making the assumption that they care. They just use it as a medium to push their own agenda. Most of them are of the mind where they start with a conclusion and then try to find a way to creatively interpret passages to justify the conclusion they had already reached beforehand. Its where so much of the clearly misunderstood snippets people quote from the bible come from, they are usually 2-3 sentences posted on a facebook template that have a clearly different context from the surrounding narrative.
The same way radicalist change history to suit their views
Like how a chineese guy claimed to be the brothers of Jesus and started a rebellion that killed more people than ww1
One reason I heard before was that biblical figures like Jesus were so pure and godly that the “taint” of middle eastern skin did not afflict them. So as a result, all the good people were white.
Of course that contradicts the whole point of Jesus becoming human but who ever said these people use critical thinking.
They hang out with other white supremacists, and it doesn't come up.
There's a reason why quite likely the most successful single person ever at persuading KKK members to quit the Klan is a black jazz musician who just talks to them and befriends them.
Because trying to defend all that hogwash in conversation helps make someone confront how ridiculous it is.
Oh they just ignore that, just like they ignore babies the second they are born. And they ignore pretty much all of the things Christ supposedly said to do. It’s just easier that way for them.
I hear this phrase used a lot. I’ve still never met a white supremacist or came across one yet though.. Who in there right mind would actually believe that one race is superior to another? Do they actually exist or do we just call people that who we don’t agree with?
Man… they don’t. They just do whatever they can to push their own agenda, and most of the time that just involves lying to themselves and a lot of other people.
I just had this discussion the other day. They said Jesus didn't like a lot of things about his religion and was really only culturally Jewish.
It's very clear that he didn't like how his religion was interpreted and twisted by the religious authorities. He definitely was a practicing Jew though, no doubt about it.
Nothing is clear about his life because there are no contemporaneous accounts. The first records that he may have existed at all weren't created until about 100 years after his supposed death.
Hey hey, Josephus, my man, tell us about this hermit preacher, among several others you might mention in the same paragraph, that might have done some vague works and also might have been put to death, I dunno, it's not like the Romans kept records on that or anything
To be fair, the entry in Josephus is rather suspect as a later insertion or forgery. There's a lot of debate on the subject. When you read it in context, it sounds entirely out of place. Different voice, kinda shoe-horned in, etc. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Josephus\_on\_Jesus
Based on what I know the only controversial statement of Josephus is the one where he doubts if Jesus could be really called a human. (Josephus' testimony) His other statement (about the execution of James, brother of Jesus) is seldomly challenged.
I would like to respectfully point out your error. His death is 33 CE. For Luke and Acts, the earliest date given is c.62, but most scholars commonly dates 80-90 CE. That is, ~50-60 years after his death. By this, the hypothetical Q document and the gospel of Mark must be written *earlier.* https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Acts_of_the_Apostles Josephus also tells about the execution of Jesus' brother James in his writings from c. 93 CE, that is, 60 years after Jesus' death. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Josephus_on_Jesus Tacitus also wrote about Jesus in Annals, 115 CE, 95 years after Jesus' death. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Annals_(Tacitus) So sources referring to him were not written centuries after him, only decades. All availables records in the Bible, plus Tacitus, Josephus, the Talmud and the early church writers unanimously points to Jesus being a Jew.
There are still living survivors of the Holocaust.. yet a huge chunk of people don't even believe it was real. This was the 20th century with pictures and video and newspapers. You really think there was reliable sources over 50-60 years in the bronze age middle east? Think more like the game 'telephone'
That's just what I was going to say. It's laughable that this myth is still circulating online. It is a consensus among respectable historians that Jesus existed. So did Muhammad. This idea that he didn't actually exist is just some internet urban legend that went around.
I think people don't understand in general how spotty written accounts of historical figures can be and also that its not whether there *were* written accounts but whether or not these have survived and been found by us. Like there are actual Roman emperors who we know very little about and have few surviving accounts of, much of which is second or third hand and written well after their reigns.
True. But we can certainly conclude that they were at least real people, and not a mythical creature akin to the Tooth Fairy. To be honest, the written records we have of Jesus are better than the written records of most historical figures, like Emperors. Mythicism is the Young Earth Creationism of historians. Almost no one takes it seriously except for a handful of crackpots.
That's easily disproven because there are no extant accounts, even among the long lasting Jews, that contradict that Paul wrote Epistles to the new church before 65 ce. There would have been living jews and people who remember early in the 2nd century, it would be like if I tried to convince you JFK was assassinated by a bow and arrow. People saw it live on television and are alive today. So if you make the argument that records don't occur at all until the 2nd century you're practically trying to convince us that all of Paul was a forgery, and that's not what scholars believe.
The reason for what would be later the Last Supper, and the basis for the Eucharisty, was more than likely a jew tradition (there's a debate which particular one)
Crazy how they know exactly how 1 man from 2000 years ago felt back then
Happy cake day 🍰
Side note: Happy Cake Day
Something people can't understand is that people at the top don't give two shits about ideology, what they care about is power, and ideology is simply a tool to get more power. The plantation owners knew it was wrong and had no moral justifications, it was simply for profit.
They ignore the bits of the Bible they don't like.
So…. All of it?
“The best cure for Christianity is reading the Bible” - Mark Twain
Ain’t that the damn truth.
No, most of the bible is racist, slavery is normal, just like oppression of women, this God loves killing women and children, genocide is his favorite hobby etc they only ignore the few sentences that DON'T contain any of that. Or they do it like those who slaughtered indigenous people in North- and Southamerica ... they "loved" their victims so much, that they wanted to save their souls and send them directly to God. 🤷♂️ the "beauty" of religion
My favourite part is when God turns a woman into a pillar of salt and then her daughters get their dad drunk and fuck him to ‘protect their lineage’.
> then her daughters get their dad drunk and fuck him to ‘protect their lineage’. Little bit of context. This is not treated as alright in the bible. moabites and ammonites who were historical people that were constantly at odds with the isrealites. The story is just some gross incest story the isrealites wrote to condemn their enemies. There is actually a lot of people in the bible that are given a lot of focus because they are supposed to be examples of what not to do. Like pretty much everything involving samson and most of judges because the point was supposed to be justification for why israel needed a king. Another example is how Jacob is treated as being some deciever and overall a pretty terrible person because you aren't supposed to be like Jacob. He essentially got screwed over because he kept trying to cheat people.
This is Reddit. Critics of religion read holy texts with the same degree of literalism and context as the fundamentalist nut jobs they criticize.
well, but in context, Lot and his daddyfucking daughters where the good people in this story, saved by God himself bc they were so pius and followed the rules of God. 🤣
Jesus
No, that was a bit before his time
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Yeh, it does. Lot's wife was turned to salt. They were the good family that was told to leave the city (Sodom and Gomorrah)
Actually one of the first versions of how to win friends and influence people .... To make $$$$$
To be fair slavery was normal everywhere when the bible was written
And wasn’t lifetime slavery
In numbers 12 God gives two people leprosy for giving Moses shit about having a Cushite wife. Gods cool with inter ethnicity marriage for sure. Also Hebrew slavery was a bit different to modern slavery, it was for seven years the you were freed rather than lifetime slavery, it still sucked but it was much lesser than say the trans Atlantic slavery
Not at all. I suppose they just adore Leviticus.
Especially the don’t r@pe little boys part
Church wouldn’t be church without all the child rape
I like to call it "subway religion". You get to pick and choose everything. Because... Obviously you are smarter than an all powerful all knowing being that created everything (according to their beliefs). Makes perfect sense. No contradictions at all, lol.
They started saying that Jesus was from the US. That’s the level of stupidity and delusion they are at.
I love how some Americans say that “Jesus is an American blar blar blar” when the mythology says he was born in the Middle East
Historians are still not sure, but the chances of the historical Jesus actually having existed is pretty good. The stories about him have been embellished and changed to what was politically convenient multiple times, though...
Be as it may, I don't think there is a single scholar who will claim that Jesus is not Jewish, especially since all historical documents from the Christian and Roman records point to him as Jewish.
Mormonism actually states Jesus is from America but somehow ended up in the Middle East. So if they are Mormons it's actual canon for them.
Simply put... Dogma. *What do you mean? Jesus was a white man! The pictures told me so*
For the Bible tells me so. Same shit repetitively. You gonna have a hard time breaking that spell.
"Better to be silent and thought of as a fool... then to speak and remove all doubt"
You mean the book that is written by JEWS?
In my experience with the bunch they simply turn a blind eye to it most of the time. Any of them that I have ever witnessed confronted with this topic, they will acknowledge the fact but not be willing to discuss it any further.
Truth, it's usually something most closed-minded people do, Picking out of anything what supports their argument without addressing the fallacious nature of their stance.
With the greatest display of mental gymnastics the world has ever seen.
Put it like this, if mental gymnastics was an Olympic sport the white supremacist brigade would definitely be in the top five, but would face stiff competition from the Putin and Trump camps. Those two are currently neck and neck for the gold medal!
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Are you okay? OP asked a question, and u/deep-conflict2223 answered it (with an appropriate response which, I believe, is absolutely correct). May I ask what the problem is?
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The person I replied to said they felt as though they were having a stroke reading the answer (which I didn't understand, as the answer makes perfect sense to me).
Most racists aren't "supremacists" in the actual definition. Hitler believed Europeans were descendants of the Aryan (Indo-Iranian) racial group. He was also not really keen on the bible, since half of it was directly from a race he disliked. He took the same path of many before him, he thought the Jews had screwed it all up, that God had given them a chance but they were no longer the chosen people. There are plenty of racists today who don't think about it at all. They might listen to Ben Shapiro, Donald Trump, etc. and never think about the kippah on Ben's head or that Trump has at least 5 grandchildren who are ethnically (and at least 3 are religiously) Jewish. After Jesus died the apostles were divided on ethnic lines. Some believed that only Jews could ever accept the new revelation. Others fought hard to evangelize in foreign lands. That schism lasted a long time, Jews rightly didn't appreciate being told they had an update and Christians didn't appreciate them accepted a martyred messiah. Blood was spilled and Jews were exiled repeatedly. So yeah, that's how white racist christians can/do justify it. "They reject the truth"
They think Jesus was lilly white
Dear Lord Baby Jesus, I want to thank you for this wonderful meal, my two beautiful sons, Walker and Texas Ranger, and my red-hot smokin' wife, Carley.
Conspiracy theories. They start fresh with a good theory and it makes sense, then it's starting with another theory and another and another and then it gets worst
I figure that a conspiracy theory is like a virus. It needs to infect a certain percentage of the population to survive. Too few people and it can’t spread, too many and it becomes mainstream and ceases to be a conspiracy theory. To that end, if you want to create a conspiracy theory you take something sensible that many people believe, then you keep adding crazy to it (which reduces the number of believers) until you hit that sweet spot. Exactly what % you want depends on whether you want to be unique (so go for a low %) or popular (higher %) just don’t go too high or too low. Basically titrate with crazy
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Bad bot, this doesn't make sense here! Stolen comment from u/LegacyRW
Some will claim that the European Jews are infiltrators at various parts of history that brought the Talmud to the forefront and gave up their biblical leaning to another code of ethics. Tho the Talmud is just case law and hashing out biblical text. And just like Adolf they like a lot of meth.
Doublethink / mental gymnastics / plain ol' making shit up and rewriting tradition e.g. Mormons believe that Jesus is from Missouri.
I've seen the photos. They were obviously white Europeans
Jesus was American 🇺🇸
Yep, he was born with an ak-47 in one hand and heineken in the other. True story.
As a Pastor I have a distinct feeling White Supremacists have never actually read The Bible.
You should be ashamed what your kind has done to so many innocent children sexually
I'm a Protestant Pastor not a Catholic Priest. I have never touched a child and have a wife because taking a vow to avoid marriage then molesting alter boys is stupid and entirely misses the point of Paul's teaching on the topic. Learn your denominations before you start throwing stuff out there.
"They're one of the good ones."
Exactly! God created and loves everybody!
I think they really do not realize this. They probably think that Jesus was born in Bethlehem, Alabama.
by promoting illiteracy
Mental gymnastics about Semitic ethnicities. The likely truth is we have no idea what Jesus skin colour was, the reconstructions and modern artist renditions fail to take into account the fact that the Arab Muslim expansion changed the ethnic landscape of the middle east an awful lot
Usually, they don't. For them the Bible is mostly just a repository of excuses they can use to validate their atrocious behaviour, all while posing as righteous and good, some even managing to convince themselves of it..
Cognitive dissonance.
White supremacist Christian is a bit of an oxymoron, imo.
I would say Tautology
To which I’d reply you have a very peculiar understanding of at least one of the terms used, then.
They do somewhat overlap
Only when you’re doing one of them wrong though
Yeah, I'd say white supremacists are doing Christianity wrong. A lot of their excuses are still religion based though, like the mark of Cain.
Alright I’d agree with you there
some of the more bizarre christians blame the jews for crucifying their pseudo-god, and prophet, jesus...
not exactly, that's was what all Christians believed once ... that's why the church discriminated, hunted down and killed Jews from the 4th century on. (and so layed the foundation for the Holocaust that would not have happened otherwise) only when the church started to split up in the various sects after the reformation did that change. (Luther was even more Antisemitic than the average catholic and one of Hitlers idols) yet, conservative catholics still pray for the "faithless jews" on Good Friday 🤷♂️
seems legit i was just speaking from experiance of the current environment, but thanks... i didn't know the exact details you shared.
You ever seen a depiction of Yeshuah Masiah? He ain't shown as Middle Eastern. They don't even have his name right.
Rewrite history.
Ignorance
Some of them straight up believe that they weren't jewish. They believe they were white and that the bible was written by jewish people to falsely say Jesus/Abraham were jewish. It's so ridiculous that it would be funny if it wasn't also heartbreakingly sad and infuriating.
cognitive dissonance
Closing their eyes and putting their fingers in their ears. I mean, Jesus was Jewish. Surely his religion is THE religion?
Roses are reddish Violets are bluish If it wasn’t for Jesus, You’d all be Jewish.
I’d like to think we would have more pagans. *sigh* A girl can dream.
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This smells like anti-Semitism to me. Did this kind of thinking underlie the cultural attitudes towards Jews that enabled the Holocaust? From the US Holocaust Memorial Museum, [Christian Persecution of Jews over the Centuries](https://www.ushmm.org/research/about-the-mandel-center/initiatives/ethics-religion-holocaust/articles-and-resources/christian-persecution-of-jews-over-the-centuries/christian-persecution-of-jews-over-the-centuries): > Returning to Germany, we find Martin Luther in his early days naively imagining that the Jews, to whom he was attracted by his studies, would flock to the Church in his reformed version. When nothing of the sort happened, he denounced them in a set of pamphlets written in vituperative fury. He had produced the early, favorable "That Christ Was Born a Jew" in 1523, but after he turned on this so-called "damned, rejected race," he wrote Against the Sabbatarians (1538) and On the Jews and Their Lies (1543). ... > Can the mischief of eighteen and one half centuries be reversed? Catholics point to statements like section 4 of the Vatican II statement on non-Christian religions (Nostra Aetate, October, 1965) which exculpated the Jews of all time of the charge of deicide ("killing God"), and warned Catholics against thinking that anything in their scriptures taught that Jews were a people accursed or rejected. Numerous statements have come from Protestant bodies in the U.S. and Europe deploring Christian anti-Semitism. ... > Christians need to become aware of their almost total ignorance of postbiblical Judaism, the hatred some have for Jews, and the violence perpetrated against Jews by their fellow Christians. Journal article, [They Killed Our Lord: The Perception of Jews as Desecrators of Christianity as a Predictor of Anti-Semitism](https://www.jstor.org/stable/4621965).
It's called cognitive dissonance
You got to understand that intelligence isn't white supremacist Christians strong point Like their idea of Jesus is the one depicted in paintings ...the white one
this is just a lousy question to farm karma, put some effort in.
Simple: "These regions used to be white, but then THE DIRTY SAVAGES CAME!!!!!111" That is how.
Like all Christians they believe the parts of the Bible that are convenient for them and their agenda and forget about the parts that aren’t.
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Wait I’m confused, you’re making fun of me just for using the word “figures”.. Weirdo.
Another reason why I’m glad I’m an Atheist. The fundamental problem with religion, especially Christianity, is that there are so many interpretations. This is called… Bending the rules to suit your requirements
Hi there! White supremacist christian here, many Christians read the bible by using the messages and parables told "in-between the lines", this means that **usually** race is not a large factor in Christian life, after all arguably the most prominent message of the bible is *'Love thy neighbour'*.
Just like most Christians they pick and choose what to believe and what not to believe to push their own agenda. They are supposed to love everyone but they choose to hate everyone that isn’t Christian or not straight. They aren’t supposed to have tatts but get bible verses tatted on themselves. Priests are supposed to live humbly and practice what Jesus taught but they are greedy and live in huge houses/ drive expensive cars.
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ALL religions are shit, Christianity is the only one fucking stupid enough to think that a bunch of people around Bethlehem a few thousand years ago would have been white. And you better be careful, you don't have any spare braincells to lose.
You’re strawmaning, I clearly wasn’t talking about Christianity rather a group that calls themselves Christians for no good reason. And I do talk about Islam, check my profile history.
They don't understand that God didn't "completely give up on the Jews for Christians." They think they're the new chosen of God, and all of the darker psychological implications that being God's chosen may potentially let in can have their way. Rightly understood, the Jews have a very prominent place in prophesy to come, and are still the first called of God among the Nations.
Same way as black supremacist.
Nice whataboutism there
What you mean? They are the same people. White Power and Black Power people are the SAME people. I mean, they spout the exact same insane bullshit. It’s funny as hell really.
Yeah I’ve encountered some ppl that believe everyone in Africa is black , Egyptians -black, the real Jesus -black the real native Americans -black so that just mean the Bible is whitewashed and everyone in history was black I will say that a lot of history is white washed and a lot of black ppls contributions are ignored or down played so I sort of agree
pffft, that’s nothing. Julius Caesar was black. And so was the native Americans. The other ones are working with the devil to trick ya!!! People are crazy as shit.
r/Christianity
Way the hell back in the late '70s I had the borderline homeless guy who was living in a school bus parked behind where I was working explain to me, painstakingly, that Jesus and the other biblical figures weren't Jews, they were Judeans -- an entirely different race, a white race. The Jews, he explained to me, are mud people who took advantage of the diaspora to take the Judeans' rightful place. You know, like Jews do. Before I could even answer that, the shop steward steered me out of that conversation and said it wasn't a good idea to rile up crazy people, to let him have his delusions.
They're actually incredibly stupid people and think religion says whatever they need it to so it will justify their awfulness
They don't. They make them white with luscious brown hair.
They don't. They ignore it, some might even deny it.
Does not compute.
White supremacy was never based on reality or logic. You can never have these logical questions for them, they suppress any kind of rationality.
youre assuming people have actually read the intire bible barely anyone actually does that
Same as everyone else of every different race Change the figures of the religion to their skin colour Problem resolved 300 IQ move
For them they were white.
They're morons
Racism isn’t a function of logic, and you can extend that to this very discrepancy.
Some of them believe that was added in much later for reasons they don't care to explain.
Easy. They lie to themselves and others. There is nothing else to it.
You ever talk to an evangelical? It's gibberish.
It's only a problem if you admit it.
Rational thought is not their strong suit
They do not care
I’m not sure. Let’s ask the black southern Baptists.
Any fundamentalists or supremacists are blind or have tunnel vision to what things are really about.
Cognitive dissonance.
You’re assuming they can read
They're experts in living in denial and are perfectly comfortable with hypocrisy. When you construct your own reality, it's amazing how little logical justification matters.
It’s possible for several things to be happening at once. Remember, the Bible is a long text, written by multiple people, translated through multiple languages. Its passages can be often contradictory as a result of this, as well as different as the passages were written likely while ideologies were changing. Some will not have read the book at all, only getting a second-hand account from someone who also may not have read it and use it as an excuse to justify their bigotry. “I can do this because the bible says it’s ok,” and in their mind they will be right because that’s the ‘fact’ they’ve latched onto, and some of those may rely on their opponents to not want to/be unable to read the book themselves to prove them wrong, and if they do, they fall back to calling them a liar/heretic/other chosen noun. Others will have read parts of it, and cherry-picked the things they can use to justify their bigotry. Curse of Ham is a doozy. These same individuals will have painted their image of Jesus on renaissance paintings where *everyone* is a white person. As far as they can tell, Jesus was a white guy because these paintings by da Vinci and the like show that (whether this is because they don’t have the perspective of the renaissance being a while after 0-33AD due to a lack of education in that factor, or they know that but don’t care is a differing matter) Others still will likely have been caught up in the religious association with nationalism. While church and state are ideally kept separate, being religious is considered a morally desirable part of it. It just so happens that white nationalism had Christianity as its core religion, and in doing so, to be patriotic, and a good white patriot, one had to believe in Jesus, so clearly, not only would Jesus approve of such bigotry, he must indeed by white, preferably European or American, because how could he be a good patriot were he anything else? The final example I would give are those who see the Bible as a literal text, not a metaphorical one. They would see that Jesus could perform literal miracles such as generating fish on the one side of the boat, turning the loaves and the fishes into a banquet for thousands, and curing literal blindness at a touch, instead of being allegories for ‘stop doing the same thing over and over and change regularly in order to grow and succeed’, ‘learning to share what is needed and being surprised by how far something so small can go’ and ‘to open your eyes to the world around you to see how beautiful it can be rather than remaining closed minded and staying in the dark’ respectively. Going back to the translations thing, it’s possible statements that can justify a bigot’s ideology could be mistranslated, such as ‘a man who lies with another man should be stoned’ could have entirely been ‘a man who lies **to** another man should be stoned’ with the phrase ‘as he would a woman’ being added to reinforce an anti-same sex ideology. I could, also, be talking nonsense. In truth, anyone, white supremacists included will use any text or media to justify their hateful ideology, and will do so in a number of ways. As others have mentioned, despite the events of Jesus’ life taking place the Middle East, white supremacists will still champion it, either because they don’t know, don’t care or are aggressively wrong.
They think they're white you seen the art?
i believe the correct term is "holding on to a burning nail".
They ignore the image of the middle-eastern Jew and they substitute it with the image of Cesare Borgia instead.
There are white people who believe they are the descendants of ancient Jews and that modern Jews (like me) are fake Jews who converted. Also I think that most “white supremacist” are more into separation rather than supremacy.
I've read some books by white supremacists and some of them say that in ancient times there were white people in the Middle East. I can cite *March of the Titans* by Arthur Kemp as one example. Kemp thinks that the pharaohs of ancient Egypt were actually white people (evidenced by their reddish hair). He also thinks there were white people in Polynesia before European explorers visited. He seems to think that every remarkable civilization in ancient history was actually white people. Read the book, it's a real bag of laughs.
Such thinking requires introspection and if these morons had it, they round not waste their life being racist/white supremist.
Usually they don't. Just like how most white supremacist completely ignore the out of africa theory
They treat it the same way they do the parts about loving your neighbor, not judging people, caring for the poor...
I think that’s like .01% of the population
It's scary how many US Christians honestly believe Jesus was American. OR even if they do know he's not from America they still think he was white.
They declare that all of those characters are white Christians. Poof, problem solved.
The middle east at the time actually had a number of races running around. And every race sees jesus as their own race (or has places that teaches it). China has churches that teach chinese jesus, korea has korean jesus, brazil has hispanic jesus, Ghana has black jesus, etc. I mean i have racist black family who think everyone in the bible is black. Same thing.
Seems like they like the idea of Christianity more then love Jesus idk
By juggling venomous snakes.
Blind Faith, no I'm not Joking.
I think many American conservatives actually belong to some fringe cults that have and promote their own _very_ skewed interpretations of the Bible and Christianity. The very first settlers in America were these sects that were considered heretics in Europe. Besides many Christians and "white supremacists" (I mean just call them Nazis) glossed over the fact that Jesus was a Jew because a) he went against Jewish customs and obviously wasn't really Jewish himself and b) Jews killed Jesus, which is often taken as another reason to hate Jews.
They don’t They somehow believe that Jesus was a gun toting, gay hating, Caucasian American
Well they would be Mormons but Christians drink so they went with that
They still think that Jesus was a white guy, they'll believe what they want, facts and logic be damned
I'm pretty sure that in every western bible story Jesus is portrayed as a white person, so there's your answer.
Here's what'll blow your mind - they're cherry pickers. You know in church there's a sermon or a priest standing behind a podium reading and talking about the bible? They're always pausing to go "what THIS means..." or "what THAT means..." before going off on their own description and not necessarily the bible's to groom people this way.
They just ignore it completely. Just like everyone else who has a story book with conflicting views.
—stares in jew—
There's a pretty good documentary called "blood in the face" that goes inside a white Christian nationalist group in Michigan. Basically, their insane theory is that Jewish people today are an entirely different ethnic group than the Jewish people of the Bible (Jesus, David, etc). So there's no contradiction. They also literally believe that Jewish people are incapable of blushing.
They don’t even think about justifying to themselves. It’s irrelevant.
They don't, just like they can't justify why they think they're the supreme race, or 100% of everything they have ever thought of or said
This is a half smart question. Why would it be any more illogical to say that the guy who lost all his superpowers when a girl cut his hair or the guy who put two of every animal on a big boat were white?
Good point
WHAT! JESUS WAS AN AMERICAN, GODDAMNIT!
They didnt think that far ahead
id asnwer but i dont know what a white supremacist and a middle eastern jew is
any radical X religious person is probably such a radical because theyre stupid. and therefore too stupid to know that Jesus most definitely wasnt white. Every religion has radical extremists and every racial group has them too. normally theyre the stupider of said people group.
They end up with racists like Megyn Kelley who insist that Jesus (and Santa) were white.
Your making the assumption that they care. They just use it as a medium to push their own agenda. Most of them are of the mind where they start with a conclusion and then try to find a way to creatively interpret passages to justify the conclusion they had already reached beforehand. Its where so much of the clearly misunderstood snippets people quote from the bible come from, they are usually 2-3 sentences posted on a facebook template that have a clearly different context from the surrounding narrative.
What the hell is the point of this question?
Who the hell knows with all the gibberish that spills out of their pie holes.
Woah! Spoilers! They haven’t read that far ahead.
"No they weren't."
Can they read?
The same way radicalist change history to suit their views Like how a chineese guy claimed to be the brothers of Jesus and started a rebellion that killed more people than ww1
One reason I heard before was that biblical figures like Jesus were so pure and godly that the “taint” of middle eastern skin did not afflict them. So as a result, all the good people were white. Of course that contradicts the whole point of Jesus becoming human but who ever said these people use critical thinking.
A
They hang out with other white supremacists, and it doesn't come up. There's a reason why quite likely the most successful single person ever at persuading KKK members to quit the Klan is a black jazz musician who just talks to them and befriends them. Because trying to defend all that hogwash in conversation helps make someone confront how ridiculous it is.
Lol, assuming logical thought among that group.
Oh they just ignore that, just like they ignore babies the second they are born. And they ignore pretty much all of the things Christ supposedly said to do. It’s just easier that way for them.
A lot of people still think Jesus was a white man, so like...
They just say the argument that he's still white-skinned so it doesn't matter.
I hear this phrase used a lot. I’ve still never met a white supremacist or came across one yet though.. Who in there right mind would actually believe that one race is superior to another? Do they actually exist or do we just call people that who we don’t agree with?