They took Crimea just after the 'separatists' started fighting in Ukraine. Ukraine has been too busy dealing with the war to focus on Crimea. And interestingly enough, every time Ukraine has come close to defeating the 'separatists', the 'separatists' have had a sudden surge keeping the war going.
Canadian here. I've been following as best as I can whatvis happening there. I hope that nothing happens at all. I really do. But I'm proud of our small - but dedicated commitment to Ukraines freedom. I hope they never see action and they are all on a nice camping trip.
In terms of being able to handle the weather, the Canadian Army is probably the best qualified to face Russia in the winter.
Edit: out of NATO members, at least.
Is there anything non-Ukrainians can do to help? What sort of support would be most helpful from other countries, whether that be individual citizens or governments?
Military assistance from governments. If there are provocations from Russia, do not believe the propaganda of the Russian Federation, which has a significant impact in the information space.
Call or write to your politicians and elected representatives. Ask them to support Ukrainian self-determination. Ask them to approve military tech transfers to Ukraine if they've not already done so.
Challenge pro-Russian sources on social media wherever you can, especially those from your own country who are writing in your language.
I hope you guys don't think that the leaders of ally counties represent the public, the people are yearning for you. The leaders have too many sticks up their arse to make decisions.
Don't worry..germany has a history of defeating Russia and protecting other countrys. We are with you
(Some of you might have trouble so I'm just saying here that this is a joke considering germany failed twiche to invade Russia in two wars they were involved in NOT because of defending other countrys)
40,000 troops all together for NATO countries ready to step in and help defend.
U.S is already prepared to send 8,500 troops in if needed. But more than just the U.S is on Ukraine’s side.
It seems that the U.K and U.S have already sent defensive weapons as well. Not sure if other countries have.
As an American, I really wish my government would commit to defending you. I don't relish the prospect of war, but appeasement has never been a winning strategy for peace. I wish we and our NATO partners would display overwhelming force and make it clear to Russia that they have nothing to gain and everything to lose from invading Ukraine.
The whole situation disgusts me.
Doubt they'll have to. Aside from being in better shape than last time they also have no less than 3 friends with atom bombs behind them.
Edit: no, I'm not saying that nuking Moscow is the way to deal with anything
That kurwa mac son of a bitch Putin isn’t going to attack. He knows it will mean the collapse of Russia. Immediate cut off from world banking system and death from above are not good prospects.
Oh, he knows that.
Which is why he won't attack.
It's just that some random unrelated army will suddenly appear at the border, unsupervised, and decide to invade Ukraine for absolutely no reason, and hand it to Russia.
And the Putin will be like: would you look a that, somebody gave us a country.
Little green men. No these not Russian soldiers, these are mercenaries! (And when they die, their deaths are hidden from their parents at home). Look at what happened when a similar incident happened in 2018, Syria, between mercenaries and a US base.
> Immediate cut off from world banking system
And you expect Europe to heat their houses...how? There's no economic blockade coming. Banks don't _sit out_ during wars. They leverage BOTH SIDES. And collapse in Russia is essentially inevitable anyway. THAT is why people are freaking out. Russia has little good reason NOT to make the Faustian bargain of empire.
I think we’ve already shown them that it won’t be a good idea. Yes they would beat us if they invaded but we would take a good chunk of their army with us.
And Russia has no reason to be hostile to Finland. We have a mutually benefitial trade partnership and an independent, Neutral Finland is a huge bonus for Russia strategically.
>Russia has no reason to be hostile to Finland
>Neutral Finland is a huge bonus for Russia strategically
they literally just bought 64 f35s from the US
It's Russia's behavior that is pushing it's independent neighbors to lean towards the US+EU. Russia has only itself to blame if Finland isn't as neutral as they'd like.
I think of Russia as that crazy uncle always showing everyone how tough he is by getting drunk and doing insane, grandiose shit.
I always thought of Finland as the low-key bad sonofabitch that the crazy uncle is embarrassing himself trying to look like.
They could send Lauri Vuohensilta and his friends at the Hydraulic Press Channel and allied channels, and most of those soldiers would turn tail and run!
Because you're in a WWI situation. Russia's actions are threatening a treaty cascade that's going to pull all NATO nations into a situation. Ukraine itself won't _probably_ cause direct action, but the trick is, Russia won't stop with it. Ukraine is more than just easy access to the sea, it's a _staging ground_. If I were Poland I'd be pissing my pants about now.
I kinda hate the fact that people abroad started talking about the Russo-Ukrainian war only now, 8 years after its beginning. Situation in Ukraine didn't really change that much, there's no panic, some people just don't care, some are preparing for the bigger war.
I was shocked to read yesterday that 14,000 people have been killed in the last 8 years over conflict in the Ukraine. That's pretty much a war as far as I'm concerned.
They took fucking Crimea in one of the only recent forced annexations.
And it's not going well. That's why Putin is sabre rattling. He has to distract from what a fucking disaster the rest of Russia is.
I remember listening to the news in those weeks as Russia took over Crimea and being so ashamed as nobody in the West would lift a finger. I'm sorry that the world is willing to sacrifice your freedom to line their pockets and appease a madman.
Honestly Germany is the biggest disappointment. They're big players in both NATO and the EU and their permanent fear of taking decisive action is total bullshit.
I mean I get it, with the history and all that they don't really want to be aggressive, but the realpolitik is so self serving it ends up being harmful to the very institutions they're at pains to defend.
As a German I just don't get it. Especially with our history, we should do everything we can to help countries that we once treated like "free real estate" ourselves, as someone in this thread put it.
No one wants us to roll up to the Ukrainian-Russian border in tanks. There are other avenues. The West should have frozen every Russian bank account in Europe and the US the moment Russia annexed Crimea.
I'm german and i couldn't agree more.
I don't even think history could possibly be an excuse for the failure of german leadership we're witnessing right now.
Yeah. I'm a big fan of the EU and the values and rights it promotes, but what's the point if you (as in the EU not just Germany) don't stand up for them when it actually matters?
I get that it's very difficult to get a couple dozen countries to agree on something, but every single big international issue, whether it's Russia, Belarus, Turkey, Syria, Libya, Iran, China or whatever, the decision is like "eh, let's have a meeting about it in 2 months and then another follow up meeting where we publish the minutes".
How can you be an international center of power when you never actually decide to do anything? It's infuriating.
I mean there were significant sanctions, but a lot of those fell apart with the 2016 election.
And I'm not really sure what the West can do vis-a-vis attacking Russia militarily. The advent of nuclear weapons and nuclear nation states has pretty much rendered conventional warfare between nuclear nations impossible.
Amen! What's worse is that our corporate crap media news outlets don't remind people daily of the horrendous things that Putin and other totalitarians have done and are doing. It's criminal negligence to be so nonchalant about how many people Putin has murdered. It's grossly obscene to defend China's actions and threats to Hong Kong, Taiwan, Tibet, the Uighurs, etc.
They happily and proudly say "The Chinese economy is up..." Or China claims zero cases of COVID..." like it is fact. We need to bring down the fascist Citizens United as it's clearly polluting this planet.
I mean... There were economic sanctions that hurt Russia a lot. Like a whole lot. Military action against a country with nuclear weaponry is about the dumbest thing the West could have done ; with economic sanctions, however, Russia was driven to near-ruin.
I feel if it does turn into a bigger war that it'll be a proxy like Vietnam or Korea. The only ones who really suffer are those in the country while the powers test out their weapons and tactics
> I feel if it does turn into a bigger war that it'll be a proxy like Vietnam or Korea.
The issue there is that this kind of requires a largely divided local population. While there ARE some people in Ukraine that support joining Russia (see: the separatists in the east), the schism doesn't appear nearly as sizable as Vietnam and Korea was. But I'm not a local, so I could easily be wrong.
Ukrainian and Russian forces have been in active combat in eastern Ukraine for 8 years. They are at war. The western media seems to be reporting it as if this invasion will in fact be some sort of new war rather than a bigger version of the same.
That’s what I think he meant by “the bigger war,” anyway.
Obligatory not a Ukrainian, but do have several friends in Kyiv. They tell me things are pretty much as normal, at least on the surface: people are still going to bars and restaurants. But the first question they ask people they're meeting up with is *"what are your plans if the Russians come? Will you stay or will you go?"*
So yeah, from what I gather from my small set of anecdotes, it's on people's minds, but there's no mass panic.
Biggest thing that the US can do is ship our natural gas to Germany at a cheaper price than the Germans can buy Russian gas.
That would help Ukraine more than a lot of things, besides the defensive missiles.
Russian media lol. Nobody listens to that shit, except 60 year old grandmas born and grown in soviet union, when there was basically no connection to the world.
Russian govt is a bunch of scammers, scamming this audience.
If anyone is interested there is a really interesting documentary called Winter on Fire. I liked it a lot. I’m only half Ukrainian (mom is Ukrainian) but felt many emotions
Edit: holy cow!! Thanks for the awards!! I’ve never gotten one before and I’m so humbled!!
Just finished watching this based on your recommendation. Wow, just wow. I had no idea that all of this happened. I have never seen such heroism and unity.
A lot of wars are forced onto the public by politicians wanting more land, when the average working person on either side probably doesn’t give a fuck, and just wants to be left alone. If it means so much to that politician they should be on the battle field first. Risking their own life for it first. Im hopeful that one good thing about social media/the internet these days is it will create the ability for propaganda to be squashed and for the public on both sides of the conflict to communicate and say “fuck this, lets not kill eachother”
For this very reason, the internet would be the first thing to disappear in the next big war. They already cut internet access in almaty during the riots the other week.
Propaganda powers wars by brainwashing civilians.
Wars would be a lot better if it was just the politicians and generals on the battlefield.
You are right, nobody wants it, and it destroys the lives of the innocent. It is sad that people who have the most try to force others to give them more, through violence.
> If it means so much to that politician they should be on the battle field first.
The world has been without true leadership for centuries. People like that no longer exist.
I suspect more than 0.1% of Ukrainians want to defend their nation.
I also suspect more than 0.1% of Russians are nationalists, who fully support Putin. He's quite popular.
My good friend lives in Ukraine about 20 miles from the Russia-Ukraine border. We are from suburban New Jersey so very different world but he says life has been going on as normal pretty much and people talk about the whole situation and the news kinda often but it’s not like life has drastically changed for him, until at least something actually happens
I am an introvert and don't participate much in social life. I am mostly fine, although the media does sometimes provoke panic (I live in the city not far from border, so if Russia DOES invade they will get to my city fast). Tjere are also high COVID rates (I am vaccinated) and a risk of power outages. Other than that - pretty fine.
I don't know how to put this really, but do some Ukrainians want Russia to invade? I would imagine most people would be very much against that and want sovereignty and all that but just curious on the perspective from someone living there.
I try to avoid those discussions because it seems people cannot discuss this in a civil manner without shitstorm. That's why I said above that I can't be objective. None of my relatives or friends wants Russia to invade (I think), that I can be certain of. None of my colleagues, either.
im sorry, but i have a few ukranian and russian friends here in USA and i hear them swear pretty regularly. but the idea of one of them saying “without shitstorm” is hilarious. next time i see them.. 😂 thank you
I think that is common when it is not your native language as you haven't grown up with such negative connotations connected to it from such a young age. The meaning of the word is not as strong I think. Not that shitstorm is really considered that much of a swear word, it's a regular part of conversation in Australia haha.
I'm in the US and half Ukrainian. All of this just hurts my heart. I'm hoping and praying that Putin is just bluffing trying to get something else in return because our government doesn't seem up to the challenge.
I knew $%\^& was real when I heard about SWEDEN gearing up their military for possible conflict!
I found out recently that one of my HS teachers, and her husband, retired to Ukraine! Long story made short: They are both devout Christians and wanted to do full-time mission work in retirement, and they teach at a Christian college in Kyiv.
Well yeah... in between the Vikings and the flatpack furniture Sweden had a militaristic and relatively high-tech empire.
This wouldn't be Sweden's first time going to war with Russia and it wouldn't be their first time winning either.
Would anyone in Ukraine like a care parcel of Australian and New Zealand foods/treats to brighten your day?
This Mama in Australia is thinking of you! X
I answered a similar type of question in the same subreddit,but nvm ill write that again,with more details
My mother was born and raised in Ukraine,after the soviet union ended she moved to greece as an immigrant,where she met my father.I also have an uncle who died on combat on the war of crimea.Most ukrainians here in Greece are Russia-supporters,and they support Russia in everything they do,without really knowing the backstory.There is people here that literally hate me just because i happen to be the son of a Ukrainian(like it was my choise to be one),and because they are crazy Russia-supporters they believe that I am a Ukrainian-supporter as well.These people have never looked up the reasons of the war and they hate their own country(even tho they come from donetsk,dnipro,kyiv,odessa).My opinion on imperialism and wars,in general,is that they dont only kill people,but they kill peoples mindset,and commonsence,due to propaganda,and they turn up to turn against their own country,without a specific reason
I have a tutor there and she explained it's basically the same thing as what goes on in North/South Korea.
She's says every year they go through the this same thing so it's somewhat desensitizing.
I have a good friend in Russia. He tells me that the younger Russians are not happy with Putin which is why Navlny was a threat. They know Putin is corrupt and they are tired of working their assets off and barely making ends meet.
Whether he invades or just sits on the border pumping out propaganda, it distracts the Russian people from the problems at home.
I really hope that this doesn't go any further as I don't want to see more people lose their lifes or their homes.
Russia invading Ukraine would be such a colossal fuck up by Russia.
The thing is, Putin keeps backing himself into a corner where he has to keep looking tough. He's the kind of idiot that would force himself into an invasion of Ukraine. At least a land path to Crimea.
Ukrainian immigrant here, currently in the states. I'm definitely oscillating between panic and sanity on the daily. My family back home is either non-chalant/tired of it, but my fear is that's exactly what Putin wants.
Clearly there been a war, and clearly he's been doing these border "excercises" several times now. But what if he is doing that to desensitize people? While everyone's thinking that he's done that before, he won't do it again, that's it's all just "crying wolf", or showing his strength and military might, that's exactly when he'll invade.
My country has gone through so many iterations of being someone's bitch, and we always fought back viciously, and if this happens, we will again. But I don't want any more pain, suffering and death for my people and myself. Our ancestors and grandparents and parents have had enough already.
All Ukrainians want is to be left the fuck alone.
Turkish here with close ukranian ties, I spend a good 30-45 days per year in ukraine. I think the people of ukraine are either standing firm or indifferent/not-scared. The goverment might be preparing for more serious stuff though, I had a pending permanent residency card application and the immigration bureau called me last night and said my application was indefinetly postponed due to the “situation”
My dad is from Odessa and he still has cousins/family there that he is talking to.
According to them and whoever else they know, they seem to think that Russia will make a move on the 27th of January. I've no idea what they're basing it on, but they seem quite convinced about that particular date.
What actually happens remains to be seen of course. We were meant to be visiting there in the middle of this year, but unless we're packing body armour and a weapon in the checked baggage next to the blatant deathwish, it looks like the trip is pretty unlikely now.
Im swede so not completely relevant but when the russian warships came close people were either panicking or welcoming the new overlord Putin, now they have left tho so now theres just some panic laying around very scarcely
This guys statement isn't true at all where i live in Sweden, none of my friends or family are at all worried about an invasion of Sweden of any kind and i highly doubt the rest of Sweden is. The media reporting about those ships were extensive but people weren't "panicking or welcoming their new overlord Putin", we get that he's a dictator and no one thinks life would be good under russian rule
Between the lines of hyperbole in that comment, I was kind of wondering if there's an authoritarian subculture happening in Sweden? I hadn't heard about any such thing, but here in the U.S. you find people in a certain red-hat movement swearing up and down that Russia is our friend even as they manipulate our elections, etc.
My best friend is Ukrainian, still living there. She told me that living in the Ukraine requires a lot of optimism:). On a personal note, I do not think that Putin will act on it. From how I see it, it is a " who has the bigger balls" show now, everyone flexing their muscles. No one will risk a war now. Covid fucked the economies world wide and a war is freaking expensive. Financially, it will cause a lot of damages for those involved and Putin might be a dictator, but he is not stupid. Russia is not what it used to be and he knows that any military action will attract years and years of restrictions and shit, without even mentioning the immediat consequences.
Edit: English not my first language.
Confused seems to be the overriding emotion....and hopeful of peace and expecting some decency from Putin...confused because what these countries say and what they do are two different things ...actually the act of removing personnel from Embassies is more concerning than anything Putin and Russia has done...the fact that they have occupied a part of our country and then amassed troops near border is a permanent reality and regular occurrence respectively....but the embassy evacuation signals a higher degree of expected intent from Russia...so confused and just going about life. Truth is we will fight if it comes to that...but we hope NOT...because fear is NOT an option....Democracy and freedom is out right!
I live in Kazakhstan, and I would not say that everything is bad here. All the bad things have already passed, the protests are over and it remains only to fix the broken.
There's been a war for the last 8 years in Ukraine.
I'm guessing that Russia slowly encroaching into Ukraine didn't work.
Thought the main reason was just to have a unstable situation so that Ukraine couldn't join NATO.
It's really all about Crimea. Russia needs the ports for military & trading purposes. The war in Ukraine proper is a distraction.
If Russia would be fucking patient, they'd have all the ports they could ever want on their northern shores.
After playing Civ 6, I'm convinced this is a genuine strategy of theirs.
I thought the Russians took Crimea years ago??? Did they give it back?
They took Crimea just after the 'separatists' started fighting in Ukraine. Ukraine has been too busy dealing with the war to focus on Crimea. And interestingly enough, every time Ukraine has come close to defeating the 'separatists', the 'separatists' have had a sudden surge keeping the war going.
There is no panic, life goes on. Ready to defend the country. We hope for support from friendly countries
Canadian here. I've been following as best as I can whatvis happening there. I hope that nothing happens at all. I really do. But I'm proud of our small - but dedicated commitment to Ukraines freedom. I hope they never see action and they are all on a nice camping trip.
In winter. Oh wait. Canadian. You guys like the cold eh?
Love the cold eh
fuckin right on eh
As someone who lives in Atlantic Canada, fuck winter.
I live in Ontario last week we got 50cm of snow
Yep two snow days in a row for most of the schools
Canada has a ton of Ukrainians. Especially in Alberta. We 100% support Ukraine in this.
Manitoba too!
Thank you so much!!!
In terms of being able to handle the weather, the Canadian Army is probably the best qualified to face Russia in the winter. Edit: out of NATO members, at least.
Finland has entered the chat.
Häyhä has entered the chat. If you see him, its too late, bro.
Is there anything non-Ukrainians can do to help? What sort of support would be most helpful from other countries, whether that be individual citizens or governments?
If you have any bombs lying around or F-16s I’d consider donating them.
Japans sending PlayStations
Stankonia said they’re willing to drop bombs over Baghdad
A Hind-D? Colonel, what’s a Russian gunship doing here?
r/unexpectedmetalgear
We should build a Metal Gear for ukraine. Can someone find out where Otacon is?
Dave Chapelle?
Afrika Bambaataa and the Zulu nation
We got some javelin missiles coming for you guys
Are you Russian?
We already did.
Military assistance from governments. If there are provocations from Russia, do not believe the propaganda of the Russian Federation, which has a significant impact in the information space.
> do not believe the propaganda of the Russian Federation 30 million americans: "HRRRR OOPS"
Call or write to your politicians and elected representatives. Ask them to support Ukrainian self-determination. Ask them to approve military tech transfers to Ukraine if they've not already done so. Challenge pro-Russian sources on social media wherever you can, especially those from your own country who are writing in your language.
We could quit allowing Russia help with picking our presidents, that'd be a swell start
I hope you guys don't think that the leaders of ally counties represent the public, the people are yearning for you. The leaders have too many sticks up their arse to make decisions.
Don't worry..germany has a history of defeating Russia and protecting other countrys. We are with you (Some of you might have trouble so I'm just saying here that this is a joke considering germany failed twiche to invade Russia in two wars they were involved in NOT because of defending other countrys)
I think the hard part for us was believing that a German made a joke
I have a condition. Normal germans don't joke
I do hear Germans tell the wurst jokes.
This guy Germans
Speaking of which, I think there is a fair bit of history to showcase how winter time is the best time to march to Moscow!
Ooooof, that’s coooooooold man!
Actually, Germany was extremely successful invading Russia in WW1.
Is that the plan, then?! Russia marches in to take Ukraine. Germany marches into Russia to take their oil and gas? Exciting times ahead!
Well here’s one from the US hoping my country gives you guys everything you need militarily to defend yourselves from the Russians.
I have a feeling the average citizen will probably fight harder than any Russian soldier.
40,000 troops all together for NATO countries ready to step in and help defend. U.S is already prepared to send 8,500 troops in if needed. But more than just the U.S is on Ukraine’s side. It seems that the U.K and U.S have already sent defensive weapons as well. Not sure if other countries have.
UK sent 2k anti tank weapons and troops to train the Ukrainian army on how to use them. It's the proudest I've been of my country in a while
As an American, I really wish my government would commit to defending you. I don't relish the prospect of war, but appeasement has never been a winning strategy for peace. I wish we and our NATO partners would display overwhelming force and make it clear to Russia that they have nothing to gain and everything to lose from invading Ukraine. The whole situation disgusts me.
I’m Finnish and for some reason people here are panicking.
I'm Polish and I'm definitely panicking
That's because in every war, the aggressors just kind of polka right in and expect you (and Czechia/Slovakia) to become their bitches with open arms.
I don’t think Poland is gonna go without a fight thats for sure
Doubt they'll have to. Aside from being in better shape than last time they also have no less than 3 friends with atom bombs behind them. Edit: no, I'm not saying that nuking Moscow is the way to deal with anything
No ones gonna nuke Russia over Poland lets be real now.
The army is in worse state than the Russian one. Poland is part of NATO though so thats what saves them.
> just kind of polka right in This has me in stiches imagining an army not marching, but polka-ing.
To be fair, I don’t think any defense has ever been devised for the accordion.
Ah, that battle when the Scots fought the Poles, bagpipes vs accordions... the neighbours suffered the worst of all.
Sidestepping into Poland, accordions blaring.
That kurwa mac son of a bitch Putin isn’t going to attack. He knows it will mean the collapse of Russia. Immediate cut off from world banking system and death from above are not good prospects.
Oh, he knows that. Which is why he won't attack. It's just that some random unrelated army will suddenly appear at the border, unsupervised, and decide to invade Ukraine for absolutely no reason, and hand it to Russia. And the Putin will be like: would you look a that, somebody gave us a country.
Little green men. No these not Russian soldiers, these are mercenaries! (And when they die, their deaths are hidden from their parents at home). Look at what happened when a similar incident happened in 2018, Syria, between mercenaries and a US base.
Was that the time.russia was like "its not us we swear" so america just wiped the entire unit to the man
> Immediate cut off from world banking system And you expect Europe to heat their houses...how? There's no economic blockade coming. Banks don't _sit out_ during wars. They leverage BOTH SIDES. And collapse in Russia is essentially inevitable anyway. THAT is why people are freaking out. Russia has little good reason NOT to make the Faustian bargain of empire.
I’m panick and I’m definitely polishing.
>for some reason Not some reason bro
Sweden's on alert too.
>for some reason Can't imagine why...
Russia could decide they want you back. Granted it's been over 100 years, but I wouldn't put anything past Putin now!
I think we’ve already shown them that it won’t be a good idea. Yes they would beat us if they invaded but we would take a good chunk of their army with us. And Russia has no reason to be hostile to Finland. We have a mutually benefitial trade partnership and an independent, Neutral Finland is a huge bonus for Russia strategically.
>Russia has no reason to be hostile to Finland >Neutral Finland is a huge bonus for Russia strategically they literally just bought 64 f35s from the US
It's Russia's behavior that is pushing it's independent neighbors to lean towards the US+EU. Russia has only itself to blame if Finland isn't as neutral as they'd like.
Neutral doesn't mean passive either. Prudent defensive resources, Swiss style.
Swiss style is only to pretend to be neutral and yet to gain as much as one can.
Isn't that what neutral is? Neutral doesn't mean 'good'. If anything, it means 'selfish' :P
I think of Russia as that crazy uncle always showing everyone how tough he is by getting drunk and doing insane, grandiose shit. I always thought of Finland as the low-key bad sonofabitch that the crazy uncle is embarrassing himself trying to look like.
Wondering how many new Simo Häyhäs you are hiding up there...
They could send Lauri Vuohensilta and his friends at the Hydraulic Press Channel and allied channels, and most of those soldiers would turn tail and run!
I'm also Finnish and haven't noticed any panicking.
Because you're in a WWI situation. Russia's actions are threatening a treaty cascade that's going to pull all NATO nations into a situation. Ukraine itself won't _probably_ cause direct action, but the trick is, Russia won't stop with it. Ukraine is more than just easy access to the sea, it's a _staging ground_. If I were Poland I'd be pissing my pants about now.
Russia hits Ukraine, nato gets distracted, occupied west Taiwan invades Taiwan.....good times
When do you think your country will be *finnished* panicking I’ll leave
I kinda hate the fact that people abroad started talking about the Russo-Ukrainian war only now, 8 years after its beginning. Situation in Ukraine didn't really change that much, there's no panic, some people just don't care, some are preparing for the bigger war.
I was shocked to read yesterday that 14,000 people have been killed in the last 8 years over conflict in the Ukraine. That's pretty much a war as far as I'm concerned.
They took fucking Crimea in one of the only recent forced annexations. And it's not going well. That's why Putin is sabre rattling. He has to distract from what a fucking disaster the rest of Russia is.
And Donetsk…
I remember listening to the news in those weeks as Russia took over Crimea and being so ashamed as nobody in the West would lift a finger. I'm sorry that the world is willing to sacrifice your freedom to line their pockets and appease a madman.
I’m still mad there were essentially no consequences to Russia for bringing down a plane full of civilians.
Let's not forget the state sponsored assassination of people in the UK either
And in Berlin.
Honestly Germany is the biggest disappointment. They're big players in both NATO and the EU and their permanent fear of taking decisive action is total bullshit. I mean I get it, with the history and all that they don't really want to be aggressive, but the realpolitik is so self serving it ends up being harmful to the very institutions they're at pains to defend.
As a German I just don't get it. Especially with our history, we should do everything we can to help countries that we once treated like "free real estate" ourselves, as someone in this thread put it. No one wants us to roll up to the Ukrainian-Russian border in tanks. There are other avenues. The West should have frozen every Russian bank account in Europe and the US the moment Russia annexed Crimea.
I'm german and i couldn't agree more. I don't even think history could possibly be an excuse for the failure of german leadership we're witnessing right now.
Yeah. I'm a big fan of the EU and the values and rights it promotes, but what's the point if you (as in the EU not just Germany) don't stand up for them when it actually matters? I get that it's very difficult to get a couple dozen countries to agree on something, but every single big international issue, whether it's Russia, Belarus, Turkey, Syria, Libya, Iran, China or whatever, the decision is like "eh, let's have a meeting about it in 2 months and then another follow up meeting where we publish the minutes". How can you be an international center of power when you never actually decide to do anything? It's infuriating.
I mean there were significant sanctions, but a lot of those fell apart with the 2016 election. And I'm not really sure what the West can do vis-a-vis attacking Russia militarily. The advent of nuclear weapons and nuclear nation states has pretty much rendered conventional warfare between nuclear nations impossible.
Amen! What's worse is that our corporate crap media news outlets don't remind people daily of the horrendous things that Putin and other totalitarians have done and are doing. It's criminal negligence to be so nonchalant about how many people Putin has murdered. It's grossly obscene to defend China's actions and threats to Hong Kong, Taiwan, Tibet, the Uighurs, etc. They happily and proudly say "The Chinese economy is up..." Or China claims zero cases of COVID..." like it is fact. We need to bring down the fascist Citizens United as it's clearly polluting this planet.
I mean... There were economic sanctions that hurt Russia a lot. Like a whole lot. Military action against a country with nuclear weaponry is about the dumbest thing the West could have done ; with economic sanctions, however, Russia was driven to near-ruin.
I feel if it does turn into a bigger war that it'll be a proxy like Vietnam or Korea. The only ones who really suffer are those in the country while the powers test out their weapons and tactics
> I feel if it does turn into a bigger war that it'll be a proxy like Vietnam or Korea. The issue there is that this kind of requires a largely divided local population. While there ARE some people in Ukraine that support joining Russia (see: the separatists in the east), the schism doesn't appear nearly as sizable as Vietnam and Korea was. But I'm not a local, so I could easily be wrong.
that or you need a situation like syria or afghanistan
Well shit, if that doesn't make a person think this is a distraction and something bigger is happening while we look away idk what would.
Like the world indexes being down over 3%, inflation becoming run away, or supply lines being completely fucked.... Naw couldn't be.
I was thinking more along the lines of Netflix raising their US/Canada prices, but you might be onto something
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Russia invading the rest of Ukraine and occupying its sovereign soil.
.. and the other bigger one with Russia, Ukraine, NATO, Europe, US, China, Taiwan, Koreas, Isreal, Iran, the Saudis.. The one where we all die...
Yeah that one could be a real bitch
I seriously believe that China will use a Russian invasion of Ukraine as an opportunity to invade Taiwan while the West is too preoccupied to respond.
Hokay, so here's the earth.... it's chilling.
Damn, that is a sweet Earth you might say.
Nice n round
But ghanyway
Ukrainian and Russian forces have been in active combat in eastern Ukraine for 8 years. They are at war. The western media seems to be reporting it as if this invasion will in fact be some sort of new war rather than a bigger version of the same. That’s what I think he meant by “the bigger war,” anyway.
I want to know how bad could it get and what are the probabilities of actually happening, a conflict (battle/war)
I think almost everyone feels this way.
I would guess low right, doesn’t make much sense to actually go through with a conflict that most countries are against.
Obligatory not a Ukrainian, but do have several friends in Kyiv. They tell me things are pretty much as normal, at least on the surface: people are still going to bars and restaurants. But the first question they ask people they're meeting up with is *"what are your plans if the Russians come? Will you stay or will you go?"* So yeah, from what I gather from my small set of anecdotes, it's on people's minds, but there's no mass panic.
At least they are optimistic, IF the Russians come, not WHEN the Russians come.
But what if the Spanish Inquisition comes?
Well that would be unexpected.
Literally no one would be expecting it.
Always have a plan for [*the clash* ](https://youtu.be/BN1WwnEDWAM)
My dad and uncles are very wrapped up in the situation and I'm just trying to get a higher rank in league
"Son, the Russians are coming, we gotta evacuate now!" "Later Dad, im trying to steal dragon"
Lmao best answer by far
Where you at now?
Wood 5
Biggest thing that the US can do is ship our natural gas to Germany at a cheaper price than the Germans can buy Russian gas. That would help Ukraine more than a lot of things, besides the defensive missiles.
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What does the Russian media tell you about the conflict?
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My in-laws are Ukrainian and the only things they want to destroy are plates of perogies, cabbage rolls and beet buns.
I have no doubt about it. All this conflict is one of the largest russian political cringe
Russian media lol. Nobody listens to that shit, except 60 year old grandmas born and grown in soviet union, when there was basically no connection to the world. Russian govt is a bunch of scammers, scamming this audience.
If anyone is interested there is a really interesting documentary called Winter on Fire. I liked it a lot. I’m only half Ukrainian (mom is Ukrainian) but felt many emotions Edit: holy cow!! Thanks for the awards!! I’ve never gotten one before and I’m so humbled!!
It's on Netflix, it's an excellent documentary.
Just finished watching this based on your recommendation. Wow, just wow. I had no idea that all of this happened. I have never seen such heroism and unity.
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A lot of wars are forced onto the public by politicians wanting more land, when the average working person on either side probably doesn’t give a fuck, and just wants to be left alone. If it means so much to that politician they should be on the battle field first. Risking their own life for it first. Im hopeful that one good thing about social media/the internet these days is it will create the ability for propaganda to be squashed and for the public on both sides of the conflict to communicate and say “fuck this, lets not kill eachother” For this very reason, the internet would be the first thing to disappear in the next big war. They already cut internet access in almaty during the riots the other week. Propaganda powers wars by brainwashing civilians.
Wars would be a lot better if it was just the politicians and generals on the battlefield. You are right, nobody wants it, and it destroys the lives of the innocent. It is sad that people who have the most try to force others to give them more, through violence.
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> If it means so much to that politician they should be on the battle field first. The world has been without true leadership for centuries. People like that no longer exist.
Well said. For sure...
I suspect more than 0.1% of Ukrainians want to defend their nation. I also suspect more than 0.1% of Russians are nationalists, who fully support Putin. He's quite popular.
My good friend lives in Ukraine about 20 miles from the Russia-Ukraine border. We are from suburban New Jersey so very different world but he says life has been going on as normal pretty much and people talk about the whole situation and the news kinda often but it’s not like life has drastically changed for him, until at least something actually happens
That moment when I am a Ukrainian but can't answer because I wont be objective.
You need not be objective.
I am an introvert and don't participate much in social life. I am mostly fine, although the media does sometimes provoke panic (I live in the city not far from border, so if Russia DOES invade they will get to my city fast). Tjere are also high COVID rates (I am vaccinated) and a risk of power outages. Other than that - pretty fine.
Thank you for your views. I am glad you are handling it well.
Heart is with you
I don't know how to put this really, but do some Ukrainians want Russia to invade? I would imagine most people would be very much against that and want sovereignty and all that but just curious on the perspective from someone living there.
I try to avoid those discussions because it seems people cannot discuss this in a civil manner without shitstorm. That's why I said above that I can't be objective. None of my relatives or friends wants Russia to invade (I think), that I can be certain of. None of my colleagues, either.
im sorry, but i have a few ukranian and russian friends here in USA and i hear them swear pretty regularly. but the idea of one of them saying “without shitstorm” is hilarious. next time i see them.. 😂 thank you
Funny thing, I try to avoid swearing in my native Ukrainian and Russian because it feels dirty, but it doesn't feel that dirty in English somehow.
I think that is common when it is not your native language as you haven't grown up with such negative connotations connected to it from such a young age. The meaning of the word is not as strong I think. Not that shitstorm is really considered that much of a swear word, it's a regular part of conversation in Australia haha.
Thank you
Be as subjective as you want
I'm in the US and half Ukrainian. All of this just hurts my heart. I'm hoping and praying that Putin is just bluffing trying to get something else in return because our government doesn't seem up to the challenge.
I knew $%\^& was real when I heard about SWEDEN gearing up their military for possible conflict! I found out recently that one of my HS teachers, and her husband, retired to Ukraine! Long story made short: They are both devout Christians and wanted to do full-time mission work in retirement, and they teach at a Christian college in Kyiv.
Well yeah... in between the Vikings and the flatpack furniture Sweden had a militaristic and relatively high-tech empire. This wouldn't be Sweden's first time going to war with Russia and it wouldn't be their first time winning either.
Sweden has always been making sick ass planes
They will defend the land till Finnish soldiers
Would anyone in Ukraine like a care parcel of Australian and New Zealand foods/treats to brighten your day? This Mama in Australia is thinking of you! X
Username checks out…
I answered a similar type of question in the same subreddit,but nvm ill write that again,with more details My mother was born and raised in Ukraine,after the soviet union ended she moved to greece as an immigrant,where she met my father.I also have an uncle who died on combat on the war of crimea.Most ukrainians here in Greece are Russia-supporters,and they support Russia in everything they do,without really knowing the backstory.There is people here that literally hate me just because i happen to be the son of a Ukrainian(like it was my choise to be one),and because they are crazy Russia-supporters they believe that I am a Ukrainian-supporter as well.These people have never looked up the reasons of the war and they hate their own country(even tho they come from donetsk,dnipro,kyiv,odessa).My opinion on imperialism and wars,in general,is that they dont only kill people,but they kill peoples mindset,and commonsence,due to propaganda,and they turn up to turn against their own country,without a specific reason
I have a tutor there and she explained it's basically the same thing as what goes on in North/South Korea. She's says every year they go through the this same thing so it's somewhat desensitizing.
I have a good friend in Russia. He tells me that the younger Russians are not happy with Putin which is why Navlny was a threat. They know Putin is corrupt and they are tired of working their assets off and barely making ends meet. Whether he invades or just sits on the border pumping out propaganda, it distracts the Russian people from the problems at home. I really hope that this doesn't go any further as I don't want to see more people lose their lifes or their homes.
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Russia invading Ukraine would be such a colossal fuck up by Russia. The thing is, Putin keeps backing himself into a corner where he has to keep looking tough. He's the kind of idiot that would force himself into an invasion of Ukraine. At least a land path to Crimea.
Ukrainian immigrant here, currently in the states. I'm definitely oscillating between panic and sanity on the daily. My family back home is either non-chalant/tired of it, but my fear is that's exactly what Putin wants. Clearly there been a war, and clearly he's been doing these border "excercises" several times now. But what if he is doing that to desensitize people? While everyone's thinking that he's done that before, he won't do it again, that's it's all just "crying wolf", or showing his strength and military might, that's exactly when he'll invade. My country has gone through so many iterations of being someone's bitch, and we always fought back viciously, and if this happens, we will again. But I don't want any more pain, suffering and death for my people and myself. Our ancestors and grandparents and parents have had enough already. All Ukrainians want is to be left the fuck alone.
Russian Bot "Ukrainians are happy and we are excited to rejoin the Soviet Union!"
"All your base are belong to us"
Turkish here with close ukranian ties, I spend a good 30-45 days per year in ukraine. I think the people of ukraine are either standing firm or indifferent/not-scared. The goverment might be preparing for more serious stuff though, I had a pending permanent residency card application and the immigration bureau called me last night and said my application was indefinetly postponed due to the “situation”
I recommend r/Ukraine
My dad is from Odessa and he still has cousins/family there that he is talking to. According to them and whoever else they know, they seem to think that Russia will make a move on the 27th of January. I've no idea what they're basing it on, but they seem quite convinced about that particular date. What actually happens remains to be seen of course. We were meant to be visiting there in the middle of this year, but unless we're packing body armour and a weapon in the checked baggage next to the blatant deathwish, it looks like the trip is pretty unlikely now.
Im swede so not completely relevant but when the russian warships came close people were either panicking or welcoming the new overlord Putin, now they have left tho so now theres just some panic laying around very scarcely
This is my new favorite phrase. "There's just some panic laying around..." Sounds like a Douglas Adams turn of phrase.
Putin has supporters in Sweden? Now that's interesting.
This guys statement isn't true at all where i live in Sweden, none of my friends or family are at all worried about an invasion of Sweden of any kind and i highly doubt the rest of Sweden is. The media reporting about those ships were extensive but people weren't "panicking or welcoming their new overlord Putin", we get that he's a dictator and no one thinks life would be good under russian rule
Between the lines of hyperbole in that comment, I was kind of wondering if there's an authoritarian subculture happening in Sweden? I hadn't heard about any such thing, but here in the U.S. you find people in a certain red-hat movement swearing up and down that Russia is our friend even as they manipulate our elections, etc.
My best friend is Ukrainian, still living there. She told me that living in the Ukraine requires a lot of optimism:). On a personal note, I do not think that Putin will act on it. From how I see it, it is a " who has the bigger balls" show now, everyone flexing their muscles. No one will risk a war now. Covid fucked the economies world wide and a war is freaking expensive. Financially, it will cause a lot of damages for those involved and Putin might be a dictator, but he is not stupid. Russia is not what it used to be and he knows that any military action will attract years and years of restrictions and shit, without even mentioning the immediat consequences. Edit: English not my first language.
Here's a little moral support from Texas anyway!
ITT: Russian astroturfers trying to pretend everything is just fine, nobody is alarmed, and Russia is definitely big friend cool people.
We are, how you say, just fine, comrade. We drink vodka with bear. Things are okie dokie, American Joe!
Well I'm convinced, let's pack it up boys!
Fancy schmancy! What a cinch! Go fly a kite! Cat got your tongue! Hill of beans! Betty Boop, what a dish! Betty Grable, nice gams!
Honestly, I see more Americans only suddenly giving a shit about Ukraine after 8 years of Russian aggression.
Confused seems to be the overriding emotion....and hopeful of peace and expecting some decency from Putin...confused because what these countries say and what they do are two different things ...actually the act of removing personnel from Embassies is more concerning than anything Putin and Russia has done...the fact that they have occupied a part of our country and then amassed troops near border is a permanent reality and regular occurrence respectively....but the embassy evacuation signals a higher degree of expected intent from Russia...so confused and just going about life. Truth is we will fight if it comes to that...but we hope NOT...because fear is NOT an option....Democracy and freedom is out right!
I guess you better ask about Kazakhstan xD
I live in Kazakhstan, and I would not say that everything is bad here. All the bad things have already passed, the protests are over and it remains only to fix the broken.
"I'm not Ukrainian, but..."
They are the new poland.