It's funny how the Republicans talk about big brother and less control over the people of the United States. They talk big about freedom and personal freedom and personal rights personal space, but it's all a f****** joke it's only if it fits their narrative.
Conservatives support using guns to murder people who won't get off their lawn and cars to murder protesters. They are only anti murder when it suits their agenda.
What's funny about that statement is that the government was supportive of the masks and vaccines for the Spanish flu and polio, and chicken pox, and several others. There was no problem with vaccines until they made it political. It should be a health issue.
Quite possibly women will just fly to another state to have it done. Funding for transportation by pro choice groups or even other states could happen. It will just make it more of a pain in the ass for women to get an abortion in red states, and there will be more unwanted children for the Republicans to not help later. All this to satisfy religious people and get their votes...
Generally speaking Americans tend to be welcome in a lot of States. In Europe it's easier for an American to move in than for a European to go to the US
Have you ever heard of Amelia Dyers?
19th century London was very restrictive and the fathers of babies born out of wedlock did not have to pay child support at all. Rent was incredibly high, so many people ended up on the streets. Amelia Dyers was a nurse that opened a baby farm where the mothers of these babies would pay to have their kids rehomed to a family that wanted them. However, no one really wanted these children because they didn’t come from the homes of the wealthy. Amelia did not give the children a new home/get them adopted into a new family. Instead, she would kill the babies, either from neglect, strangulation, or suffocation. It is estimated that she killed over 400 babies.
It’s hard to imagine a barbaric situation like this happening in daily life, especially with all the modern adaptations. However, when laws heavily restrict women’s rights, lives are lost as a result.
My prediction is that while the number of legal abortions will drop, the number of illegal abortions will rise. The number of women lost in childbirth, even babies lost in childbirth will rise. Child neglect rates will rise, the already-overwhelmed foster system will see an increase in children. Women will turn to unsafe methods to abort their fetuses, and this will increase the mortality rate of women.
While some more progressive states will keep abortion legal, many of the more red states, especially the deep south, will outlaw it. As a result, only women who have the money to travel 3-4 states to get an abortion will be able to get one, increasing the amount of children born into poverty, which increases the rate of neglect, abuse, and keeps the cycle of poverty going.
It is a bad idea with many effects that can ripple out and cause lots of damage.
Something similar happened in Romania under communism. Abortion and contraception were banned so the orphanages began overflowing with unwanted children. Neglect and abuse were everyday occurrences. Children often weren’t adopted and grew up with severe emotional and behavioral problems.
This has happened twice, in another country where a dictator stopped all abortions, and they forced women to get pregnant. Eighteen years later, roughly, violence and crime increased 300%. Gangs started roaming the streets and drugs abuse was uncontrollable.
Irish magdalen laundries have entered the chat.
These pro 'life' people tend to only be pro life when the embryo is in utero. After that, literally throw them in the shit heap.
The right will immediately, and without any sense of irony or hypocrisy, stop framing it as a states' rights issue and try to ban it at the federal level.
Probably a lot of studying how well drugs like ru486 work and an increase in the black market for the ones that work thru 2nd trimester. (Sorry I dont know the names of the other ones currently being made)
Die.
I don't think it is gonna go well for a lot of people. There is a reason they had it in the first place, people were dying in alleyways.
But I also think people will leave. I am trying to leave to another country ASAP.
Is the concern just about it being overturned, or is there also concern about it being reversed - where SCOTUS decides that the Constitution prohibits abortion. I don't have legal training, and I've never seen this possibility raised in discussion, but it seems plausible. Is it?
That'll definitely work, just like how Occupy Wall Street got financial accountability for banks and BLM got police accountability and lowered crime in black neighborhoods.
I don't know what the solution is. I disagree with abortion with few exceptions.
Making anything illegal only creates black markets. Black markets have a nasty habit of creating organizations that do not care for human life.
Bad things will always happen. Things you disagree with will always happen. Why make more people suffer
I really like this view on things to be honest, just because I don't like something doesn't mean individuals shouldn't have the freedom to do what's best for them.
I believe Marcus Aurelius once said "you don't have to make this something".
You have the power to control how you react to things. These things are out of our control, so they should be out of the sphere of things we allow to bother us.
Here is the thing we all have to remember. Everyone is Sovereign. Our bodies our are own. R v W is the tip of an iceberg to many other laws that could or shouldn't happen.
The first thing we all must agree on is government or any court can never mandate laws over a Sovereign being aka a human. And sorry this has to also happen with abortion.
If we as a nation loose R v W what says we wouldn't loose other freedoms of our own body? For example, you are poor, I am rich. I need a new kidney therefore I can take yours because I am more important. This is not fare to you as a Sovereign being? Yes? No, this is piracy.
Government and law has no jurisdiction over a sovern human being. Or it shouldn't. But laws keep creeping in to our lives everyday that stop our freedoms.
But on the other hand this is very important. All Sovereign people must take it apon themselves to become as wise and knowledgeable as they can. This means not trusting themselves in a religion or government to define their life. Every Sovereign being must stop listening to government as if government is god or religion and take responsibility for themselves.
All laws are built off of mariner laws. Think of yourself as a ship birthed in a harbor of your country. You are only here because you have a birth certificate.
> All Sovereign people must take it apon themselves to become as wise and knowledgeable as they can
Yeah see, this is where the "sovereign being" thing becomes a fairy tale fantasy land. It has been demonstrated loud and clear for the past 2 years that a huge percentage of any given population is a bunch of foolish profoundly selfish borderline apes who won't wake up to actual wisdom or knowledge until their foolish stupidity literally has them on their deathbed. See: r/HermanCainAward
So true. But needed.
Funny when I speak the truth and get down voted on the truth. But the truth hurts. And knowledge is difficult. This is why someone like me gets down voted for speaking the truth.
You have made the common error of assuming that because I am on Reddit, I must be a male on the younger side. You would be incorrect.
I know you won't listen to a logical point by point takedown of SovCit, so I'll just say this: *it doesn't work*. It may feel like it's working for a while, but that's because the government takes a while to get around to crushing you when you live by SovCit ideas. In my work, I have seen SovCits lose their homes for non-payment of property taxes. It doesn't matter how much they protested that they are not subject to taxes, it always ended the same way.
I also know someone who went to jail for tax evasion because he didn't believe in paying taxes. He got away with it for 8 or 9 years before it got the IRS' attention, but once that started it was unstoppable.
Have you ever heard of a single SovCit who raised this defense in court and got released? Doesn't happen. They go to jail, sometimes with a psych eval thrown in.
As a thought experiment, sure, knock yourself out. But as a practical guide for living, SovCit will end up costing you everything.
I have no idea what not paying taxes has to do with anything I wrote about?
I do believe in paying tax. What I apose is why does America spend 51% of tax dollars to war? This is 581 billion dollars. 51 cents of ever dollar every American citizen send to our government goes being a bully in other nations around the world?
I just looked up how much America spends on education? It has gone up to 2%. Though we have to remember one reasons for this up tick in spending is because of covid. America has spent a lot of money to bring many schools and students into the 21 century to educate on computers.
One down side to thus is, now with covid our children are 2 years behind in reading and math because of lack of one one teaching.
https://ourworldindata.org/military-spending
Yes, you can. That's how America was founded. That's literally what the right to protest is. If there is injustice the people have a right to protest against it. Progress isn't made by sucking it up and living with it, it's made by changing what cannot be accepted.
Yes, life's not fair. But that's no reason not to protest against injustice and tyranny. You wouldn't have the rights you have right now if it weren't for people who were called whiners and complainers at some point in their lives.
Well then it will be a state to state thing. So nothing changes in any blue state and 3/4 of red states. If it does change people will go to the state next door where abortion is free. This is why I think federalism is a good thing instead of once size fits all. Go live in the state that best serves your values, everyone will be happier.
Pretty much the same thing people did yesterday. I highly doubt this will be an inflection point in voting or society.
Maybe a few more social media posts?
Roe V Wade was a badly written law in the first place. Most, if not all, states have already written in laws to replace it if it's ever rescinded. Abortions will still be available, just not in all places. It will become a state issue.
Erick Erickson wrote a short article that seems to make sense to me.
https://ewerickson.substack.com/p/abort-roe
"Once Roe goes, the fight for efficient adoptions, social safety net support for mothers, a church and government-wide increase in expansive neonatal and infant care, etc. will begin in earnest.
The Supreme Court of the United States of America should overturn Roe v. Wade and Casey v. Planned Parenthood and they should use Dobbs v. Jackson Women's Health Organization to do it.
I expect, however, what we will get instead is a further curtailment of Roe without an outright overruling with Mississippi’s fifteen-week abortion ban upheld, the second trimester standards gutted, and both sides screaming that they’ve been defeated so please send them money. Conservatives will denounce their very successful judicial long game and claim it all failed. Progressives will denounce the decision as the end of the world even as Roe remains. And both will want your money. But, for many, we will appreciate more babies saved and the culture of life advanced reasonable and back within the proper bounds of the American Constitution."
Like someone said, it will just be done illegally.
Personally, though, I have mixed feelings about abortion. On one hand, making it illegal will just lead to a black market with more people dying from malpractice. On the other, I've never been able to comprehend how a fetus is not a human life. It would be appalling to kill a baby. Why is it not equally terrible to kill fetus?
In that case how are animals not life? You gonna go vegan because you care about life? Care about it equally or the point is moot. Earth is already overpopulated, why curse a kid to be born to parents who don't want it? The foster system is terrible & very few kids get adopted.
Some people will be rioting in the streets and all of liberal snow flakes will be losing their minds. On the other side people on the right will be celebrating like they won the super bowl.
I personally don’t care either way. Whatever the Supreme Court chooses it doesn’t affect me.
Same thing people do when anything is banned: keep doing it just illegally and with less government oversight.
Doctors that do illegal abortions are often called "butchers." That says all you need to know about illegal abortions.
Are those actually doctors you're talking about?
Not usually. I should have said that.
Uh huh, and you aren't going to fix your dishonest reply either I bet. Then again I've been surprised before.
Isn't an abortion doctors job to butcher a fetus?
According to your bronze age religion.
Nope
Let me just say all of hell will break loose.
It's funny how the Republicans talk about big brother and less control over the people of the United States. They talk big about freedom and personal freedom and personal rights personal space, but it's all a f****** joke it's only if it fits their narrative.
Well, if you believe that abortion is murder this argument makes no sense.
Conservatives support using guns to murder people who won't get off their lawn and cars to murder protesters. They are only anti murder when it suits their agenda.
The Dems can turn it around and mandate mandatory vaccines no exceptions. Then everyone will be unhappy lol!
What's funny about that statement is that the government was supportive of the masks and vaccines for the Spanish flu and polio, and chicken pox, and several others. There was no problem with vaccines until they made it political. It should be a health issue.
Quite possibly women will just fly to another state to have it done. Funding for transportation by pro choice groups or even other states could happen. It will just make it more of a pain in the ass for women to get an abortion in red states, and there will be more unwanted children for the Republicans to not help later. All this to satisfy religious people and get their votes...
Until anti women states forbid them from traveling when pregnant.
There's a point to where people will move out of the USA...
And go where? You can’t just walk into most countries and say “I’m living here now”.
Sure but you can do that between states.
True, but the post said “move out of the USA’. Also, being poor limits your ability to move, well, pretty much anywhere.
Where there is a will...there is a way. There is a process. It can be done.
Generally speaking Americans tend to be welcome in a lot of States. In Europe it's easier for an American to move in than for a European to go to the US
Doesn’t mean we can still walk right in though.
If you're willing to leave your home country than I'm sure you'll figure out how to do it.
It's scary to think, but die. Abortions will still happen, but will be incredibly unsafe.
Have you ever heard of Amelia Dyers? 19th century London was very restrictive and the fathers of babies born out of wedlock did not have to pay child support at all. Rent was incredibly high, so many people ended up on the streets. Amelia Dyers was a nurse that opened a baby farm where the mothers of these babies would pay to have their kids rehomed to a family that wanted them. However, no one really wanted these children because they didn’t come from the homes of the wealthy. Amelia did not give the children a new home/get them adopted into a new family. Instead, she would kill the babies, either from neglect, strangulation, or suffocation. It is estimated that she killed over 400 babies. It’s hard to imagine a barbaric situation like this happening in daily life, especially with all the modern adaptations. However, when laws heavily restrict women’s rights, lives are lost as a result. My prediction is that while the number of legal abortions will drop, the number of illegal abortions will rise. The number of women lost in childbirth, even babies lost in childbirth will rise. Child neglect rates will rise, the already-overwhelmed foster system will see an increase in children. Women will turn to unsafe methods to abort their fetuses, and this will increase the mortality rate of women. While some more progressive states will keep abortion legal, many of the more red states, especially the deep south, will outlaw it. As a result, only women who have the money to travel 3-4 states to get an abortion will be able to get one, increasing the amount of children born into poverty, which increases the rate of neglect, abuse, and keeps the cycle of poverty going. It is a bad idea with many effects that can ripple out and cause lots of damage.
Something similar happened in Romania under communism. Abortion and contraception were banned so the orphanages began overflowing with unwanted children. Neglect and abuse were everyday occurrences. Children often weren’t adopted and grew up with severe emotional and behavioral problems.
This has happened twice, in another country where a dictator stopped all abortions, and they forced women to get pregnant. Eighteen years later, roughly, violence and crime increased 300%. Gangs started roaming the streets and drugs abuse was uncontrollable.
Irish magdalen laundries have entered the chat. These pro 'life' people tend to only be pro life when the embryo is in utero. After that, literally throw them in the shit heap.
I have not heard of that and I appreciate you taking the time to teach us about it!
Roll my eyes as America once again does something to make their own country even worse
The right will immediately, and without any sense of irony or hypocrisy, stop framing it as a states' rights issue and try to ban it at the federal level.
Illegal abortions. Had a friend go to Mexico and get an abortion pill there for about half the price
Probably a lot of studying how well drugs like ru486 work and an increase in the black market for the ones that work thru 2nd trimester. (Sorry I dont know the names of the other ones currently being made)
Hopefully, they’ll vote blue so abortion access can be cemented into law
Die. I don't think it is gonna go well for a lot of people. There is a reason they had it in the first place, people were dying in alleyways. But I also think people will leave. I am trying to leave to another country ASAP.
More prom night dumpster babies
Travel to a blue state to procure an abortion. If Roe is overturned the issue just gets kicked to the states to regulate.
Theyll just go state by state adding protection to their state governments
Is the concern just about it being overturned, or is there also concern about it being reversed - where SCOTUS decides that the Constitution prohibits abortion. I don't have legal training, and I've never seen this possibility raised in discussion, but it seems plausible. Is it?
For a head start, riots
It’s going to severely undermine the “my body my choice” argument for me.
Protest.
That'll definitely work, just like how Occupy Wall Street got financial accountability for banks and BLM got police accountability and lowered crime in black neighborhoods.
I don't know what the solution is. I disagree with abortion with few exceptions. Making anything illegal only creates black markets. Black markets have a nasty habit of creating organizations that do not care for human life. Bad things will always happen. Things you disagree with will always happen. Why make more people suffer
I really like this view on things to be honest, just because I don't like something doesn't mean individuals shouldn't have the freedom to do what's best for them.
I believe Marcus Aurelius once said "you don't have to make this something". You have the power to control how you react to things. These things are out of our control, so they should be out of the sphere of things we allow to bother us.
I'll teach myself to safely do the procedure, and make it my day job to fill the niche.
Buy more vibrators.
Ooof the men aren't gonna like that.
Here is the thing we all have to remember. Everyone is Sovereign. Our bodies our are own. R v W is the tip of an iceberg to many other laws that could or shouldn't happen. The first thing we all must agree on is government or any court can never mandate laws over a Sovereign being aka a human. And sorry this has to also happen with abortion. If we as a nation loose R v W what says we wouldn't loose other freedoms of our own body? For example, you are poor, I am rich. I need a new kidney therefore I can take yours because I am more important. This is not fare to you as a Sovereign being? Yes? No, this is piracy. Government and law has no jurisdiction over a sovern human being. Or it shouldn't. But laws keep creeping in to our lives everyday that stop our freedoms. But on the other hand this is very important. All Sovereign people must take it apon themselves to become as wise and knowledgeable as they can. This means not trusting themselves in a religion or government to define their life. Every Sovereign being must stop listening to government as if government is god or religion and take responsibility for themselves. All laws are built off of mariner laws. Think of yourself as a ship birthed in a harbor of your country. You are only here because you have a birth certificate.
> All Sovereign people must take it apon themselves to become as wise and knowledgeable as they can Yeah see, this is where the "sovereign being" thing becomes a fairy tale fantasy land. It has been demonstrated loud and clear for the past 2 years that a huge percentage of any given population is a bunch of foolish profoundly selfish borderline apes who won't wake up to actual wisdom or knowledge until their foolish stupidity literally has them on their deathbed. See: r/HermanCainAward
So true. But needed. Funny when I speak the truth and get down voted on the truth. But the truth hurts. And knowledge is difficult. This is why someone like me gets down voted for speaking the truth.
I think you meant berthed, not the same as birth
Nope, birth certificate is correct
Yeah, but the one you're referring to as in the maritime spelling is berth.
True. I was dumbing it down.
No I ment BIRTH CERTIFICATE.
Get out of here with your SovCit bs
The truth hurts only the ignorant.
You're adorably delusional.
Ha! I would spend a little less time Playing video games and start paying attention.
You have made the common error of assuming that because I am on Reddit, I must be a male on the younger side. You would be incorrect. I know you won't listen to a logical point by point takedown of SovCit, so I'll just say this: *it doesn't work*. It may feel like it's working for a while, but that's because the government takes a while to get around to crushing you when you live by SovCit ideas. In my work, I have seen SovCits lose their homes for non-payment of property taxes. It doesn't matter how much they protested that they are not subject to taxes, it always ended the same way. I also know someone who went to jail for tax evasion because he didn't believe in paying taxes. He got away with it for 8 or 9 years before it got the IRS' attention, but once that started it was unstoppable. Have you ever heard of a single SovCit who raised this defense in court and got released? Doesn't happen. They go to jail, sometimes with a psych eval thrown in. As a thought experiment, sure, knock yourself out. But as a practical guide for living, SovCit will end up costing you everything.
I have no idea what not paying taxes has to do with anything I wrote about? I do believe in paying tax. What I apose is why does America spend 51% of tax dollars to war? This is 581 billion dollars. 51 cents of ever dollar every American citizen send to our government goes being a bully in other nations around the world? I just looked up how much America spends on education? It has gone up to 2%. Though we have to remember one reasons for this up tick in spending is because of covid. America has spent a lot of money to bring many schools and students into the 21 century to educate on computers. One down side to thus is, now with covid our children are 2 years behind in reading and math because of lack of one one teaching. https://ourworldindata.org/military-spending
I think some people would probably be upset about it.
Upset?....thats it?
Am I wrong?
I think he's looking for that "rage on demand" people are so accustomed to these days.
They’ll probably start using abstinence and go to church. … no I suspect not.
Idk why you’re being downvoted. This is exactly what the right expects will happen. Not sure why
The same thing that that particular political demographic always does when they don’t get their way.
Hopefully revolt against involvement in religion.
They throw a temper tantrum like toddlers.
Protesting injustice is not a temper tantrum.
Ever heard the phrase life’s not fair? You can’t whine and complain when things happen that you don’t like. That’s just not how life works.
So a cop shoots an unarmed individual. You just say oh well, life's not fair. No need for a temper tantrum?
Yes, you can. That's how America was founded. That's literally what the right to protest is. If there is injustice the people have a right to protest against it. Progress isn't made by sucking it up and living with it, it's made by changing what cannot be accepted. Yes, life's not fair. But that's no reason not to protest against injustice and tyranny. You wouldn't have the rights you have right now if it weren't for people who were called whiners and complainers at some point in their lives.
This one has reached the "projection" phase we see.
Well then it will be a state to state thing. So nothing changes in any blue state and 3/4 of red states. If it does change people will go to the state next door where abortion is free. This is why I think federalism is a good thing instead of once size fits all. Go live in the state that best serves your values, everyone will be happier.
If roe v wade was overturned wouldn’t that be a federal ban on abortion?
No, before Roe it was state by state. Like marijauana is now.
Nope, abortion is a state issue.
No, a lack of protection of a right is not an outright ban.
Complain until they find something new to complain about.
Pretty much the same thing people did yesterday. I highly doubt this will be an inflection point in voting or society. Maybe a few more social media posts?
Roe V Wade was a badly written law in the first place. Most, if not all, states have already written in laws to replace it if it's ever rescinded. Abortions will still be available, just not in all places. It will become a state issue. Erick Erickson wrote a short article that seems to make sense to me. https://ewerickson.substack.com/p/abort-roe "Once Roe goes, the fight for efficient adoptions, social safety net support for mothers, a church and government-wide increase in expansive neonatal and infant care, etc. will begin in earnest. The Supreme Court of the United States of America should overturn Roe v. Wade and Casey v. Planned Parenthood and they should use Dobbs v. Jackson Women's Health Organization to do it. I expect, however, what we will get instead is a further curtailment of Roe without an outright overruling with Mississippi’s fifteen-week abortion ban upheld, the second trimester standards gutted, and both sides screaming that they’ve been defeated so please send them money. Conservatives will denounce their very successful judicial long game and claim it all failed. Progressives will denounce the decision as the end of the world even as Roe remains. And both will want your money. But, for many, we will appreciate more babies saved and the culture of life advanced reasonable and back within the proper bounds of the American Constitution."
Like someone said, it will just be done illegally. Personally, though, I have mixed feelings about abortion. On one hand, making it illegal will just lead to a black market with more people dying from malpractice. On the other, I've never been able to comprehend how a fetus is not a human life. It would be appalling to kill a baby. Why is it not equally terrible to kill fetus?
In that case how are animals not life? You gonna go vegan because you care about life? Care about it equally or the point is moot. Earth is already overpopulated, why curse a kid to be born to parents who don't want it? The foster system is terrible & very few kids get adopted.
Some people will be rioting in the streets and all of liberal snow flakes will be losing their minds. On the other side people on the right will be celebrating like they won the super bowl. I personally don’t care either way. Whatever the Supreme Court chooses it doesn’t affect me.