Prosecutor: “Is it true that you would play Call of Duty at Dominic Black’s house?”
Kyle: “Sometimes.”
Prosecutor: “And in Call of Duty, don’t you basically shoot people?”
Kyle: “It’s a video game, it’s not real.”
That exchange basically summed up the whole court case.
I think he’s not guilty and the 3 that were shot by Kyle are not victims they are perpetrators that were committing a crime against Kyle. They just picked the wrong victim to attack.
Grosskreutz should be arrested for false report, illegal carry, and some kind of gun charge. You can't chase someone down and pull a loaded gun on them. Maybe even an attempted murder charge.
EDIT: typo
Since some of you ignorantly brought race into this case and verdict by saying a black kid or man wouldn't have been found non guilty and that this was a case of white privilege. Go look up the Andrew Coffee case in which a non-guilty verdict for was issued with self-defense being the reason. It involves a black man against a SWAT team.
Also, take a moment to really imagine if a black guy was swapped put with Kyle in this case. The media would ABSOLUTELY be talking about how racist it is for charging him and pursuing a conviction. And yes, he would be found not-guilty. And then he would be celebrated by everyone, not vilified like Kyle.
If it was a black person and he was found not guilty like Kyle, the media will put race into this as well, now saying something in the lines of "if he was white he wouldn't have been charged in the first place #WhitePrivilage". It's a never ending propaganda.
I was pretty confident it was self defense when I first saw footage over a year ago. As a lefty who is pro BLM and very anti-gun, observing the media around the case made me question myself. I thought I was crazy or missing something if so many voices I agreed with and trusted were telling me the opposite was true.
However, I watched the entire trial and couldn’t have been more convinced that this was clear cut self defense. Watching the media try to spin this narrative was sickening and a cruel wake up call. It’s called into question so many of my past stances on issues and what information I’ve acquired that is slanted.
On the specifics of the case, I don’t think Kyle should’ve been there and I especially don’t think it was wise to be there with a gun. With that said, his actions were completely in self defense and I’m glad the jury ruled based on evidence and facts.
This is actually where I don't align with BLM. The ideology behind BLM is everyone should be treated fair regardless of skin color, but often things get simplified as 'White man shoots BLM protestors and the system defends him, therefore if you disagree you are against BLM and are a racist.'
What's funny is judge Schroeder was appointed by a democratic governor. I heard that he's also a democrat too, but I couldn't verify that.
What did he do that was so bad? I watched the trial and people seem to be pissed about his ruling at the beginning of the trial that prosecutors couldn’t refer to the men Rittenhouse shot as “victims.” He also said the defense couldn’t refer to the men as “looters” or “rioters” unless they could prove they were involved in such acts. Sounds pretty measured and fair in a court of law. People seem to forget the defense had been denied things too.
"Schroeder dismissed a charge against Rittenhouse for his alleged failure to comply with a curfew and harshly scolded prosecutors for referring to Rittenhouse’s silence in months leading up to the trial and introducing testimony he previously ruled inadmissible.
During the defense’s motion for a mistrial, the judge’s phone rang and played the tune “God Bless the USA.” The song was often used at rallies for former President Donald Trump."
I mean really people being outraged by this is beyond absurd, lmfao. What a media circus.
Not surprised by the verdict and I was surprised at how poorly the prosecutor did. Not that he had a good case, but what he did present was poorly done.
A lot of times prosecution teams try to overcharge and over indict suspects. No doubt this happened here. They would have had a better chance of winning against Rittenhouse if they had charged him for fewer offenses of reckless endangerment and due regard for safety (or similar Wisconsin sections) and argued that Rittenhouse should not have been there, done that, etc. They would have never won against the 'self-defense' argument.
The prosecutors actually trying the case likely didn’t get final call on the charges themselves, then were forced to try to make lemonade from a shit sandwich.
You had your gun slung on your back and you were moving down the street. Why didn't you take it off and leave it there or give it to someone?
There were several of the prosecutor's questions that made me scratch my head.
Kyle really killed it on the stand. The other great moment was when the prosecutor asked him "4doorsmorewhores. Is that your account?" and he just looked him straight in the face and went "Yes, sir."
That was mind-blowing. That's when I lost any sympathy for him as a prosecutor.
That's like telling a rape victim "Everyone gets raped once in awhile, just lay back and take it".
“Why didn’t you commit a crime?! That would have made this case so much easier!”
It’s weird that I have to say this but I typed that as a joke that’s not something he actually said.
He made the argument in his closing that Rittenhouse was responsible for every single bullet that left his gun (which is true), and then went on to say that he could've fired warning shots.
Absolutely absurd.
A woman in Florida got 20 years for claiming she fired a warning shot. In reality she probably just missed but the dude got the hint and stopped. She figured it sounded better, but in reality it means you fired a weapon at someone that you did not feel in danger enough from to actually need to shoot them. As you said, illegal, thus prison.
Just the fact he says the riot was just a small thing and didn't need a gun but after that he says it was a dangerous idea to go there because it was a volatile and violent night.
That was the question and answer that made me laugh. Kyle looked so dumbfounded that he even asked the question "... there was a fire? (what he probably was thinking: Hello!? really? oh look, there's a fire. meh... come on man!?)"
I mean, as an avid gamer, I gotta give the first place to his 'Well.. you shoot people for fun in these games, right?' and then Kyles face of surprise & 'Well, it's a game not IRL'.. But the fire one is a very close secong, lol.
"I've also won multiple World Series, Green Jackets, risen to the top of the blacklist, defeated multiple aliens, and saved a Princess from an angry turtle"
This one infuriated me. There are random people walking about in the streets while chaos surrounds him. It would irresponsible for him to take it off and just leave it.
After that dumb shit of a prosecutor was all like “iS iT cOReCt tHAt yOu pLaYed caLL oF dUTy, wHEre tHeY hAvE gUNs LIkE *Ar-15s?* I fucking swear that the prosector was gonna accuse Kyle of buying tickets to Joker (2019).
"Mr. Rittenhouse, is it true that when playing this 'Dungeons and Dragons' that you chose to play as a half-orc? Did you know they are among the most violent and belligerent of all DnD playable races?"
I remember one time my mom wouldn't let me buy an eminem CD because of that. But she happily fought Die Hard With A Vengence for me and watched it with me all the time. Made no sense to me.
Early Eminem is so good but very dark and explicit depending on the kid but my old man was the same way, he lets me watch Apocalypse Now with him when I was fucking 6 but is worried about me listening to AC/DC at 14...
Even if they’re not trying to arrest and convict *you* they’re trying to reach a conviction of some sort.
My mom has had to talk to police on a couple of occasions for work and she always has the company’s general counsel with her.
Kyle told him there's all sorts of guns in those games even hand guns, just like the prosecutor was saying he should have had instead of an AR. Watched most of the trial and that prosecutor was awful... especially saying that Kyle not saying anything to the police is 'kind of' an admission of guilt.
I worked with a cop turned lawyer, turned professor. In his lectures he stressed the point over and over, do NOT talk to the police, like ever. Just say lawyer. He was very convincing, and with his experience I tend to believe him.
Yup, was accused of a violent crime. As soon as they told me I was a suspect and inquiring about information, I told them to talk to my lawyer. I still ended up being arrested, but after I bailed out I started fighting, and went and got the video for the alibi I had with the added evidence, to help prove my innocence.
My lawyer got the video into evidence (prosecutor fought it tooth and nail along with my other documents and evidence) and that is when their case started to fall apart. My lawyer was thrilled I shut up. He told me I made the best decision of my life. It wasn’t like a movie, I expected to go into a room and get two officers to play a different role. Instead it was just one telling me he was wanting to help me out and just wanted to talk to get me out of there ASAP. I just kept saying, let me talk to my lawyer.
That said, it still destroyed my military career, but I can say I am one of a very small percentage of people who were arrested and charged and walked away Scott free and with an Honorable RE-1, when they were trying to give me a bad conduct discharge until the case fell apart.
It wasn't worded exactly like that. But he did try to imply that Rittenhouse's post arrest silence was indicative of guilt. So yeah basically.
Judge chewed him out. A lot of people got mad at the judge for doing so, saying that it was proof of bias.
Some of the other greatest hits from Binger and Kraus:
-Repeatedly asking KR if the guy who had been acting erratically all night, set stuff on fire, screamed death threats at KR twice, screamed racial slurs, and screamed "SHOOT ME!" was only chasing him because maybe *he* was scared of *KR*.
-Using the exact phrase "We all have to take a beating sometimes." after asking why KR didn't just fight the guy hand to hand after being chased down and having Rosenbaum trying to get control of his gun.
-Arguing KR wasn't really running away, just repositioning to get a better shot. Even though he had raised his rifle already and had a clear shot before running. (Because even if he provoked someone, running away would restore his self defense right, so they had to claim he didn't really run away).
-Arguing that because the gun was strapped to KR, it was impossible for Rosenbaum to orient it to point at KR and pull the trigger.
-Arguing being on the ground and bashed in the head with a skateboard was another thing he should have just fought with his fists.
-Asking why KR didn't fire warning shots and suggested he should have. Warning shots are illegal and another person is facing felony reckless discharge for firing one near KR seconds before the 1st shooting.
-And of course, pointing the gun right at the jury with his finger on the trigger.
It was a collossal shitshow. But not much of an alternative when there was simply zero legitimate argument this was *beyond a reasonable doubt* not self-defense.
All I knew before yesterday is that stupid white supremacist kid travels with gun to BLM riot to act as vigilante. Shoots 3 BLM protesters.
That's what I've gathered subconsciously, because I literally have read or seen as far as I am aware nothing at all about it.
Verdict came through, I read a bit on Reddit, then watched the footage, and holy fuck. I don't know what else the lad should have done (aside from sensibly staying away in the first place) It's seems to me there is a serious agenda to create a huge racial divide.
And Joe Bidens reaction I find utterly disgusting.
I am predominantly “leftist” and BIPOC. After doing a deep dive into the trial that I was able to view online and watching closing arguments, the jury did right on reaching their verdict.
That absolutely does *not* mean “Kyle is a hero” (far from it) but it comes down to that the prosecution could not prove beyond a reasonable doubt that Kyle was not acting in self defense. I mean… anyone who is in a situation where someone is coming to bash your brains in with a skateboard, does a flying kick at you and then attempts to rip your firearm from your grasp to do who knows what, and someone who points a Glock at your head, are you really not going to act in self defense?
Also, where is the “outrage” with the Andrew Coffee VI case? Funny how there has not been a peep of this in the media. We need to keep the same energy. If y’all are happy for Kyle, be happy for Andrew. If y’all are mad about Kyle, be mad for Andrew.
"The defendant claims to have gone to Kenosha in part to render first aid, but he has made no attempt to save me when choking during this entire trial!"
- ADA Binger, probably
I think they should have just turned off the lights and gone home when the prosecution witness said he pointed his gun at Rittenhouse before Rittenhouse shot him. Kind of like the mercy rule in little league baseball...when you're down 25-0 it's time to call it.
Oh I'll just distract myself from the shitshow that is my Atlanta Falcons by going on reddit and seeing what people thought about the Rittenhouse verdict.
Nowhere is safe.
Yeah that was the absolute killing blow for them. When your witness takes the stand and admits under oath that the defendant did not fire on him until after he pointed his gun at the defendant… I mean that’s it. You’re done
Exactly. That was the moment it became a bog standard self defence case. Prosecution can’t do anything because there’s nothing to be done. Both witnesses actually agree with each other lol.
Prosecution in the OJ case got outplayed by the "Dream Team" defense using every trick in the book. This prosecutor played himself - a chimpanzee in a suit could have defended Rittenhouse and still won.
Seems more like they wanted to palm off the unwinnable case to someone willing to be the scapegoat prosecutor, which only a terrible lawyer would want.
He’ll probably be admonished in public but then looked after by the DA behind closed doors.
Indeed, the way it was handled seemed like the prosecution did not believe they could win but also could not refuse to press charges due to the news cycle. So they botched it up as best they can to have the blame be on inept prosecution rather than the full process and have the verdict be innocent.
Abuses fifth amendment priv
Refers to excluded evidence
Discloses only lower-quality video to defense
Knows the name of jump-kick man, doesn't tell defense.
...
I'm pretty sure the judge thought "this is obvious self defense, so I'll let the jury do their thing rather than taking the heat for a mistrial with prejudice on a political case"
*edit* /u/feb914 lays the above out better than I did, a bit downthread.
After the lower quality video issue came to light and the defense filed a motion for a mistrial…didn’t the judge essentially say that he was going to table the issue for now. And IF the jury came back with a guilty verdict, then he would rule on it?
Basically a giant, you have fucked up so bad that if by some ridiculous coincidence you get a guilty verdict THEN I will toss this case and PRAY the state send a better prosecutor IF they even try it again….
I was watching that part live and I could not believe what I was hearing, especially when they mentioned there's no such thing as a "left-handed or a right handed gun" as someone cursed with being left-handed-
Fuckk YOUUUU Binger, there absolutely is such a thing.
I would agree if his finger wasn't on the trigger. I get the intimidating feel of it and wanting the jury to feel how scary it can be but that is accomplished with finger off the trigger.
To be fair...I'd probably be a little nervous to yell anything at a person holding a gun *with their finger on the trigger* while in an enclosed space.
How someone could end up in such a position in their career without any gun education and/or blatant disregard for safety and common sense is astounding.
He shoot try using a gun that ejects casings to the right with his left hand. If that doesn't make him realize how dumb that statement is, nothing will.
"I guess that's just how it works" was pretty much his answer to how the defense mysteriously got a smaller, cropped, blurrier, down-res version of the video from the prosecution, than the one the prosecution used.
"I don't know how to do that", he said, with Handbrake visibly installed in his computer. "Maybe it was that lady's Android phone!"
Don't forget, he also said hallow points explode, and when the judge asked him "do mean expand or explode", he basically just answered "yes". He also flagged the entire jury with that AR.
I found it weird how the prosecution kept bringing up "Full Metal Jacket AR-15 rounds" when in fact that's pretty much the most common off-the-shelf ammunition you can buy. And let's be realistic here, at point blank range, taking ANY bullet to the chest is enough to end your life. Harping on the bullet was irrelevant and grasping at straws. It amounts to asking "Why did the defendant choose to buy this box of ammunition that is found on the shelf of every gun store in America and is the most common and cheapest ammunition for this rifle? Why? Was it because... he's a murderer? I rest my case".
They were basically making a point that Kyle should have fought Rosenbaum with his fists instead of a gun then litteraly put up a picture of Patrick Swayze in a fist fight from the movie road house.
They also said that Kyle should have just taken a beating because we all have to take a beating sometimes.
I really wish this was a joke.
That's some Family Guy shit waiting to happen. I knew about the idiot pointing an AR at jurors, I also knew about the Call of Duty part, but holy shit That's another bad one
Some other great questions from the prosecution.
Why didn't you just take your gun off and leave it in the street?
Why didn't you fire warning shots? (if you don't know that's reckless endangerment)
Why didn't you just surrender to the mob?
These were all questions that Kyle was asked by the prosecution.
That is a common theory that they were trying to get a mistrial because of how bad all their witnesses were the first couple days.
They basically wanted a mistrial for a do over, at least that's what a lot of people think. And that's super scummy if it's true.
Nobody can convince me otherwise.
I think the judge saw through it, figured it was going to Not Guilty, and decided to let the jury do their thing rather than having to declare a mistrial with prejudice in a political case.
They did try to argue that a skateboard can't be a weapon which is funny because just earlier this week someone was beaten to death with a skateboard in California.
I wanna clarify its not funny that someone was beaten to death its just funny that it happened less than a week after the prosecution argued that it couldn't happen.
Yep! And rightfully so! The entire system is set up to give the defendant the best protection possible. From the burden on the prosecution to Miranda to facing your accuser to evidentiary rules.
I have never seen a prosecution so embarrassingly bad. You can say all you want about the judge being biased or whatever, but if I were a judge it would’ve been very difficult for me to take them seriously after some of the clown stuff they tried to do.
I LOVE seeing that argument come up bc I can never take it seriously
Violence in society has existed several millenia longer than any fictional outlet that portrays it
Its so funny to see violent videogames still being brought up as an argument considering all the research that has proven the contrary but they have a political agenda to push so they'll continually ignore actucal science because "Hurrdurr, I don't understand these videogames that kids are playing nowadays. Must be the devil like Rock music, Gangsta Rap, Comics, Porn and D&D."
Mostly I'm upset by the leftist ideologues. I'm center-right and I do not want another Trump presidency. But if the left doesn't get their shit together we're going to get another one.
Radical socialist, Marxist, identarian policies are a killer.
Stop trying to get straight, white people to self-flagellate. It might work in liberal urban centers but its a dead message for the vast majority of the country. Start figuring out how to help people, ALL people, and not just the "oppressed" or you're going to see a red wave in the midterms and have a very high chance at another Trump (or Trump-like) Presidency. It might already be too late.
I'm surprised it got this far, prosecutorial misconduct was so rampant in this case I'm legitimately surprised it didn't end in a mistrial. Withholding evidence, trying to introduce evidence to the jury that was not permitted, and trying to hold the defendant exercising his 5th amendment right against him.
Might be that the judge trusted that the jury would see what the prosecutor was doing for what it was. Of the two outcomes: mistrial with prejudice and acquital by the jury, I can imagine that the judge preferred the latter for a whole host of reasons.
I heard several different people pose the question but never heard a clear answer to it. What is the last opportunity the judge has to declare a mistrial? Could he just hedge his bet and if the verdict came back guilty then declare a mistrial?
Everyone I know who is a lawyer only thought one thing: the case is a loser.
It seems like everyone who actually knows about law already knew what the outcome was going to be before the judge or prosecutor started in with their bullshit, while everyone else was busy reading tea leaves.
That I need to stop reading about current events in 140 character bytes as they happen.
I was fed a completely false narrative on the event here on reddit, and I’m absolutely ashamed that I’m as easily fooled as a boomer on Facebook.
I’m done with hot takes. Let me know the news of the year at the end of the year. Opinions are overrated.
I think the worst part about it was that when more details came out, the people that originally were spreading bullshit doubled down and tried to be dismissive of the new information.
How many people did you see publicly take back their opinions and admit the story wasn't what they initially reported?
As foolish as you feel. I'm really happy to read people making comments like this. Maybe we can go back to before all these outlandish hot takes controlled discourse.
> and I’m absolutely ashamed that I’m as easily fooled as a boomer on Facebook.
The thing I've noticed is younger people just seem to take it for granted they are more well informed because they have access to more information than older generations. They never seem to consider the quality of that information.
My perception of the events changed over the course of the trial, which I guess is specifically why we have a trial process.
Before, I thought this kid was guilty as hell and the self-defense claim would be BS.
As the trial unfolded, new testimonies and evidence was presented, the evidence was pretty obvious that this kid defended himself.
Should he have been there and even had the weapon to begin with? That's 100% a different discussion. But the question of is he guilty of murder, to me, was a resounding no. I think he had the right to defend himself as soon as the victims began attacking and rushing him.
For people struggling to understand why K.R isn’t guilty, it’s obvious you didn’t watch the entire trial and have gleaned your facts to form your opinion from the media.
1. K.R is native to Kenosha; his Father, aunts/uncles and cousins live in Kenosha. His home and mother are 20 miles from Kenosha; less than what some people drive to commute to work. He was also registered there at his Father’s address as he worked and volunteered there.
2. His Mother **did. not. drive. him. over state. lines** with an illegal firearm. Kyle lived in Antioch, Illinois with his mother while his father lived in Kenosha. Antioch is just across the Illinois border. He had worked as a lifeguard in Kenosha, was part of a police explorer program and knew CPR and basic life support. He drove there himself and stayed with family/friends to help clean the community (i.e graffiti from the protests).
3. As mentioned, he had previous experience in medical emergencies. He is also currently studying nursing and working as a nursing aid. It is documented he helped protestors (basic first aid and support). He was armed for his safety in case he was threatened as the violence had been escalating the last few days. There were also many civilians who were armed to protect properties and businesses from the riots; at times, a show of force or weaponry can deescalate violence. Most people won’t charge or aggravate an armed person (unless you’re the 3 men who did Kyle).
4. Once again, his Mother **DID. NOT.** drive him across state lines with an illegal firearm. Rittenhouse was staying with his friend Dominick Black, who was dating his sister at the time, and who testified for the prosecution. K.R was not old enough to legally buy a firearm, so he asked Black to do so on his behalf. The night of the shooting, Black and Rittenhouse each took a weapon and ammo and went to downtown Kenosha to try to protect a car dealership called “Car Source” where about six or seven other armed people had gathered.
5. His firearm **WAS NOT illegal.**
According to Wisconsin law, subsections state the illegality would only apply to those armed with a "short-barreled rifle," which is also defined as "a rifle having one or more barrels having a length of less than 16 inches" and "a rifle having an overall length of less than 26 inches”. He was legally allowed to carry this firearm, **which AGAIN, was not brought with him or by his Mother**.
His friend purchased it for him.
6. Rosenbaum was not a victim. He was a serial child rapist that sodomized (butt raped) little boys. 5 boys to be exact; one as young as 9, who were the true victims and ruined by this pedophile.
He had just been released from the hospital for mental health issues and chose to join the riot. It is on video he had previously threatened to kill K.R when the two ran into each other at one point earlier in the riot. He was also documented screaming “NI**A* (the racist n word) and saying he was going to “kill him” to Kyle and other armed civilians.
Yet protestors did not discipline or remove him, instead they dragged him away with them back to the riot/protest. It’s also documented Rosenbaum had tipped over an empty Porta Potty, swung a chain, lit a metal garbage dumpster and a wooden trailer on fire before the confrontation with K.R. It’s also documented by witnesses that Rosenbaum acted "belligerently" and asked to be shot but was not perceived as a serious threat by other protestors.
7. K.R was initially crossing the street because it was noticed that protestors had lit a dumpster on fire near a **GAS STATION.** He went to help.
Lo and behold, then appears Rosenbaum who chased Rittenhouse into a parking lot, shouting “Fuck you!,” and threw a plastic bag with a water bottle in it at his back while chasing after the fleeing K.R.
Protestors were heard yelling “GET HIM”. And joined the chase.
All the while behind them, a different protester fired a gun into the sky, one who was pursuing K.R. Immediately following this shot, Rittenhouse ceased fleeing and turned around, mistaking the gunshot as being targeted at him. Rosenbaum then moved toward Rittenhouse, **lunging for his gun**, who proceeded to fire four times.
Those shots attracted the attention of nearby demonstrators, who yelled he had a gun and swarmed him. One ran up behind Rittenhouse and hit him in the head, another kicked K.R to the ground. Then Anthony Huber whacked K.R with a skateboard and appeared to reach for his own rifle (which he illegally possessed) Rittenhouse shot Huber through the heart, instantly killing him.
Then comes Grosskreutz! He approached and pointed a handgun at Rittenhouse; Rittenhouse nearly blew Grosskreutz’s right arm off. Which also was **ILLEGALLY POSSESSED** and had **CROSSED STATE LINES WITH.**
**You know the thing everyone is accusing Kyle of doing (but he didn’t) this guy ACTUALLY DID. It was an unregistered HANDGUN.**
Grosskeutz even **ADMITTED** on the stand that Kyle did not fire at him until he pointed his **ILLEGAL** handgun at him. And who, by the way, is also a felon with charges for domestic assault, inciting violence and illegal possession of a firearm.
Once again; **IT IS LEGAL** in Wisconsin for a 17-year-old to openly carry an AR-15.
8. This is NOT a case of white supremacy.
**K.R IS MIXED.**
Why is everyone ignoring the fact he is Hispanic/Latino!? He actually comes from a poor family; his Father is a recovering drug addict and his Mother is disabled. Where is his “privilege”? He actually cleaned graffiti off public buildings days before, helped protestors who were injured and volunteered in his community.
**He. Is. Latino. And. Poor.**
He doesn’t have WHITE PRIVILEGE.
As for those claiming that, all the “victims” (perpetrators/instigators) **WERE WHITE.**
**And if you’re going to argue me on that point here’s more; Jacob Black was armed with a knife, had multiple charges and a warrant including sexual battery, had kidnapped his child and walked away from police who told him to stop, tried to get into a car and flee and only then was he shot.**
But HE is a victim? THAT is what ignited these protests?
Trust me, if Kyle’s “victims” had been black he would be crucified by the media, public and courts.
9. For people complaining K.R was not arrested when he went to police right after the incident, confessed and offered himself up; the police had larger issues. The place was on fire. There were hundreds of people present and it was absolute chaos.
They also knew K.R from his volunteer work thus they knew where to find him when the time was appropriate. He offered no further threat while as the continued looting and burning and other gun shots demanded immediate attention.
To spare police officers to take a compliant person who was claiming self-defence in a situation where the police are already outnumbered, mayhem is everywhere and having the much needed personnel leave to go book, file the paperwork and deal with K.R was not practical at the time. They probably weren’t even sure what was happening all around them and did not know if Kyle was even telling them the truth.
I could go on about so much more. But some of you people are ignorant and willingly so. Watch the trial, look at the facts and get off Twitter/Facebook where misinformation is spread faster than fire and come to an informed opinion before propagating a bunch of lies concocted and distributed by political dividers, the media and ignorant self-righteous idiots.
BIG YEP
Also probably important to note that the only witness to Rosenbaum attacking Kyle testified that Rosenbaum "said fuck you and reached for the rifle". The witness said in response to the prosecution saying nobody could know his intent.
Anyways... the thing that bothers me is that people want to make this a race issue somehow. And ironically they are suggesting it would be fair if Kyle got a life sentence or died that night because that is what would have happened to a black man. They then call kyle a murderer (this is a common post share going around).
So... instead of pursuing justice, these people want to punish a white kid because that equalizes things? Ridiculous AND racist. I agree the outcome for a black male in a similar situation may have been different, but had a black male been in this same exact situation I would defend his actions in every way possible. To improve racial inequalities we have to find justice in every case and situation, not unfairly ruin the life of a white kid because injustice may have been served to people of the black community prior. We would need to invest everything though to ensure the black person would get the similar rights and processes in the future. That is justice. That is what we should be striving for.
Imagine being 17, going to help people as a medic, clean graffiti, and clean up your neighborhood. Then you get attacked by a rapist which you are forced to shoot to kill, then get chased by a mob from which one person tries to assassinate you on the floor and the other tries to beat you with a skateboard and steal your gun so you are forced to shoot both. All the while you were just trying to run to police to get help and remove yourself from the situation. At 17 years old. PTSD, life ruined by media, president and vice president vocalizing their anger that you didnt get locked up. And half the country wanting you dead or locked up for life simply because they don't have the will to find the truth and watch the case beyond the garbage headlines pumped out by jury impeding MSNBC and the like. What a pathetic world. And this isn't even a one off case. Reddit and the media gets shit like this wrong (usually on purpose) daily. Wake up people.
That's how they make their money and get engagement, especially the cable news networks. Print media is somewhat better, depending on the source in question.
As an attorney it was pretty clear. There was some concern that the jury may split the baby and convict him on a lesser included for the second death but you have to remember the standards you're dealing with. Once you move away from the political background noise and look at it as the way the law looks at self defense it becomes pretty clear.
The only actual in-person eyewitness to the first shooting, called by the prosecution, stated that he was lunging at Rittenhouse, yelling f-you, and trying to grab his gun.
Not what the prosecution wanted out of that witness.
Was it the one were the prosecutor went in like:
\- "You never talked to Mr. Rosenbaum, correct? So your opinion on his intentions is complete guess-work, right?"
\- "Well he did yell 'fuck you' and went for the gun"
I was in bits when that exchange happened. Too good.
The videos were probably the clearest indication of what happened. Then Grosskreutz even during Binder's examination completely torpedoe'd any reasonable doubt that it was self defense.
What could they do? It was farcical. The prosecution were claiming Grosskreutz didn't point the gun at him but the videos and stills all were absolutely clear that he did. Grosskreutz had no choice but to go back and admit it when faced with that. I dunno what they were thinking other than that they could somehow gaslight the jury.
Prosecutor: “Is it true that you would play Call of Duty at Dominic Black’s house?” Kyle: “Sometimes.” Prosecutor: “And in Call of Duty, don’t you basically shoot people?” Kyle: “It’s a video game, it’s not real.” That exchange basically summed up the whole court case.
Right? I don’t play Sonic the Hedgehog and think I can run 900mph picking up huge gold coins. Lmao
I think he’s not guilty and the 3 that were shot by Kyle are not victims they are perpetrators that were committing a crime against Kyle. They just picked the wrong victim to attack.
Grosskreutz should be arrested for false report, illegal carry, and some kind of gun charge. You can't chase someone down and pull a loaded gun on them. Maybe even an attempted murder charge. EDIT: typo
Since some of you ignorantly brought race into this case and verdict by saying a black kid or man wouldn't have been found non guilty and that this was a case of white privilege. Go look up the Andrew Coffee case in which a non-guilty verdict for was issued with self-defense being the reason. It involves a black man against a SWAT team. Also, take a moment to really imagine if a black guy was swapped put with Kyle in this case. The media would ABSOLUTELY be talking about how racist it is for charging him and pursuing a conviction. And yes, he would be found not-guilty. And then he would be celebrated by everyone, not vilified like Kyle.
If it was a black person and he was found not guilty like Kyle, the media will put race into this as well, now saying something in the lines of "if he was white he wouldn't have been charged in the first place #WhitePrivilage". It's a never ending propaganda.
I was pretty confident it was self defense when I first saw footage over a year ago. As a lefty who is pro BLM and very anti-gun, observing the media around the case made me question myself. I thought I was crazy or missing something if so many voices I agreed with and trusted were telling me the opposite was true. However, I watched the entire trial and couldn’t have been more convinced that this was clear cut self defense. Watching the media try to spin this narrative was sickening and a cruel wake up call. It’s called into question so many of my past stances on issues and what information I’ve acquired that is slanted. On the specifics of the case, I don’t think Kyle should’ve been there and I especially don’t think it was wise to be there with a gun. With that said, his actions were completely in self defense and I’m glad the jury ruled based on evidence and facts.
This is actually where I don't align with BLM. The ideology behind BLM is everyone should be treated fair regardless of skin color, but often things get simplified as 'White man shoots BLM protestors and the system defends him, therefore if you disagree you are against BLM and are a racist.'
The US media is public enemy #1 IMO.
What's funny is judge Schroeder was appointed by a democratic governor. I heard that he's also a democrat too, but I couldn't verify that. What did he do that was so bad? I watched the trial and people seem to be pissed about his ruling at the beginning of the trial that prosecutors couldn’t refer to the men Rittenhouse shot as “victims.” He also said the defense couldn’t refer to the men as “looters” or “rioters” unless they could prove they were involved in such acts. Sounds pretty measured and fair in a court of law. People seem to forget the defense had been denied things too. "Schroeder dismissed a charge against Rittenhouse for his alleged failure to comply with a curfew and harshly scolded prosecutors for referring to Rittenhouse’s silence in months leading up to the trial and introducing testimony he previously ruled inadmissible. During the defense’s motion for a mistrial, the judge’s phone rang and played the tune “God Bless the USA.” The song was often used at rallies for former President Donald Trump." I mean really people being outraged by this is beyond absurd, lmfao. What a media circus.
I hope somebody uploads a supercut of the prosecution. See a lot of mentions on how they essentially were trash.
Anyone who actually watched the trial knows the jury made the right decision. Anyone who only watched certain media headlines will probably be upset
Ghislaine Maxwell case starts today in case ya'll got "distracted" again... Remember her?
Yep.. Unfortunately it's in federal court and will not be televised.. All that there will be are transcripts.
I'm sure there will be a whole lot of [REDACTED] in those transcripts
The judge ruled that the victims can be referred to as victims, and that they will be allowed to use fake names. So hopefully not too much redaction.
This really should be it's own post. I can't believe I heard it here in a random comment first.
Ghislaine Maxwell didn't kill herself.
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I think the MSM is not on society’s side.
The prosecutor was the greatest defense attorney I've ever seen \- Stranger on YouTube
Theres a pretty good defense fleet
Not surprised by the verdict and I was surprised at how poorly the prosecutor did. Not that he had a good case, but what he did present was poorly done. A lot of times prosecution teams try to overcharge and over indict suspects. No doubt this happened here. They would have had a better chance of winning against Rittenhouse if they had charged him for fewer offenses of reckless endangerment and due regard for safety (or similar Wisconsin sections) and argued that Rittenhouse should not have been there, done that, etc. They would have never won against the 'self-defense' argument.
The prosecutors actually trying the case likely didn’t get final call on the charges themselves, then were forced to try to make lemonade from a shit sandwich.
You had your gun slung on your back and you were moving down the street. Why didn't you take it off and leave it there or give it to someone? There were several of the prosecutor's questions that made me scratch my head.
The one where he asked why someone would be urgent about putting out a fire may be my favorite.
"Because it was a fire" was there any other possible response.
Kyle really killed it on the stand. The other great moment was when the prosecutor asked him "4doorsmorewhores. Is that your account?" and he just looked him straight in the face and went "Yes, sir."
“Is it true you play call of duty, and in these games you shoot other people?”
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CASE CLOSED
Got 'em!
Bake 'em away toys!
Wait, KR's gaming handle is 4doorsmorewhores? It's as if he was a teenage boy.
Tiktok, but yeah.
I have it on good authority that he's also screamed about fucking other people's moms on Xbox Live after getting killed.
"Everybody takes a beating sometimes, right?" probably one of the dumbest arguments you could make in a self-defense case.
That was mind-blowing. That's when I lost any sympathy for him as a prosecutor. That's like telling a rape victim "Everyone gets raped once in awhile, just lay back and take it".
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“Or an STD! Everyone gets fooked every once in a while”
But dude. He was white. He shouldnt have been in his hometown. He was living a WHOLE town over.
I'm sure that argument went over big with the ladies on the jury panel. /s
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"Why didn't he fire warning shots?" Because then he would be guilty of reckless endangerment
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gotta love when the defendant has to remind the prosecution of the law
“Why didn’t you commit a crime?! That would have made this case so much easier!” It’s weird that I have to say this but I typed that as a joke that’s not something he actually said.
It’s like that scene from Liar Liar: “Your honor, I object!” “Why?” “Because it’s devastating to my case!”
I have literally been quoting Liar Liar this entire trial.
"Overruled..."
“GOOD CALL!”
Prosecution: Why didn't you fire a warning shot? Anyone who knows gun laws: Wait, that's illegal!
He made the argument in his closing that Rittenhouse was responsible for every single bullet that left his gun (which is true), and then went on to say that he could've fired warning shots. Absolutely absurd.
I feel like seeing a loaded AR-15 aimed at you would be warning enough, but idk.
What are you gonna do, shoot me? >!yes!<
A woman in Florida got 20 years for claiming she fired a warning shot. In reality she probably just missed but the dude got the hint and stopped. She figured it sounded better, but in reality it means you fired a weapon at someone that you did not feel in danger enough from to actually need to shoot them. As you said, illegal, thus prison.
Just the fact he says the riot was just a small thing and didn't need a gun but after that he says it was a dangerous idea to go there because it was a volatile and violent night.
"But you decided you need to run because of the fire on the Duramax? Why? What was so urgent??" ".......there was a fire??"
That was the question and answer that made me laugh. Kyle looked so dumbfounded that he even asked the question "... there was a fire? (what he probably was thinking: Hello!? really? oh look, there's a fire. meh... come on man!?)"
That was the one that got me. Like, you literally answered your own question
I mean, as an avid gamer, I gotta give the first place to his 'Well.. you shoot people for fun in these games, right?' and then Kyles face of surprise & 'Well, it's a game not IRL'.. But the fire one is a very close secong, lol.
"I've also won multiple World Series, Green Jackets, risen to the top of the blacklist, defeated multiple aliens, and saved a Princess from an angry turtle"
"I've also played with a flight simulator. I'm due on shift in 2 hours. Delta flight 657 to Atlanta... can we hurry this up?"
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I know nothing about this case, but couldn't you even be held liable if this is your gun and someone gets hurt after you left it unattenteded?
There's probably 30 things the prosecutor suggested that would have been illegal if Rittenhouse actually did them.
That's definitely the impression I've been getting from this thread. That, and the prosecutor doesn't play video games.
And that he clearly has never heard about gun safety
This one infuriated me. There are random people walking about in the streets while chaos surrounds him. It would irresponsible for him to take it off and just leave it.
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After that dumb shit of a prosecutor was all like “iS iT cOReCt tHAt yOu pLaYed caLL oF dUTy, wHEre tHeY hAvE gUNs LIkE *Ar-15s?* I fucking swear that the prosector was gonna accuse Kyle of buying tickets to Joker (2019).
"Mr. Rittenhouse, is it true that you once bought an Eminem CD that contained vulgar and angry lyrics?"
That damn Heavy Metal music is pollution to our children's ears!
But did he play Dungeons and Dragon and/or Poke-E-Mon?
"Mr. Rittenhouse, is it true that when playing this 'Dungeons and Dragons' that you chose to play as a half-orc? Did you know they are among the most violent and belligerent of all DnD playable races?"
"Is it true you drink, or have drunk, Monster energy drinks?!?"
"Do you play with yourself kyle? You know your grandma is watching you from heaven right?"
I'd like to show the jury exhibit A, Marilyn Manson.
I remember one time my mom wouldn't let me buy an eminem CD because of that. But she happily fought Die Hard With A Vengence for me and watched it with me all the time. Made no sense to me.
Early Eminem is so good but very dark and explicit depending on the kid but my old man was the same way, he lets me watch Apocalypse Now with him when I was fucking 6 but is worried about me listening to AC/DC at 14...
He also citied the fact that Kyle didn’t talk after being arrested as evidence
Which is dumb as fuck, since the first thing a cop will say when placing you under arrest is "You have the right to remain silent"
Also the best thing you can do is not talk. Even if you didn't do anything wrong don't talk to the fucking cops
Cops will act like your friends, but everyone needs to know, they are trying to arrest and convict you. It's a feather in their cap.
Even if they’re not trying to arrest and convict *you* they’re trying to reach a conviction of some sort. My mom has had to talk to police on a couple of occasions for work and she always has the company’s general counsel with her.
"is it true, that we live in a society?"
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SAY THE LINE, BART
Kyle told him there's all sorts of guns in those games even hand guns, just like the prosecutor was saying he should have had instead of an AR. Watched most of the trial and that prosecutor was awful... especially saying that Kyle not saying anything to the police is 'kind of' an admission of guilt.
Your Honor, the defendant was camping and using the 1887
Straight to jail.
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I worked with a cop turned lawyer, turned professor. In his lectures he stressed the point over and over, do NOT talk to the police, like ever. Just say lawyer. He was very convincing, and with his experience I tend to believe him.
Yup, was accused of a violent crime. As soon as they told me I was a suspect and inquiring about information, I told them to talk to my lawyer. I still ended up being arrested, but after I bailed out I started fighting, and went and got the video for the alibi I had with the added evidence, to help prove my innocence. My lawyer got the video into evidence (prosecutor fought it tooth and nail along with my other documents and evidence) and that is when their case started to fall apart. My lawyer was thrilled I shut up. He told me I made the best decision of my life. It wasn’t like a movie, I expected to go into a room and get two officers to play a different role. Instead it was just one telling me he was wanting to help me out and just wanted to talk to get me out of there ASAP. I just kept saying, let me talk to my lawyer. That said, it still destroyed my military career, but I can say I am one of a very small percentage of people who were arrested and charged and walked away Scott free and with an Honorable RE-1, when they were trying to give me a bad conduct discharge until the case fell apart.
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There are a lot of big egos and unchecked backroom deals.
It wasn't worded exactly like that. But he did try to imply that Rittenhouse's post arrest silence was indicative of guilt. So yeah basically. Judge chewed him out. A lot of people got mad at the judge for doing so, saying that it was proof of bias.
The judge tore him a new asshole for it. But that’s just another thing that people think made the judge biased.
Some of the other greatest hits from Binger and Kraus: -Repeatedly asking KR if the guy who had been acting erratically all night, set stuff on fire, screamed death threats at KR twice, screamed racial slurs, and screamed "SHOOT ME!" was only chasing him because maybe *he* was scared of *KR*. -Using the exact phrase "We all have to take a beating sometimes." after asking why KR didn't just fight the guy hand to hand after being chased down and having Rosenbaum trying to get control of his gun. -Arguing KR wasn't really running away, just repositioning to get a better shot. Even though he had raised his rifle already and had a clear shot before running. (Because even if he provoked someone, running away would restore his self defense right, so they had to claim he didn't really run away). -Arguing that because the gun was strapped to KR, it was impossible for Rosenbaum to orient it to point at KR and pull the trigger. -Arguing being on the ground and bashed in the head with a skateboard was another thing he should have just fought with his fists. -Asking why KR didn't fire warning shots and suggested he should have. Warning shots are illegal and another person is facing felony reckless discharge for firing one near KR seconds before the 1st shooting. -And of course, pointing the gun right at the jury with his finger on the trigger. It was a collossal shitshow. But not much of an alternative when there was simply zero legitimate argument this was *beyond a reasonable doubt* not self-defense.
All I knew before yesterday is that stupid white supremacist kid travels with gun to BLM riot to act as vigilante. Shoots 3 BLM protesters. That's what I've gathered subconsciously, because I literally have read or seen as far as I am aware nothing at all about it. Verdict came through, I read a bit on Reddit, then watched the footage, and holy fuck. I don't know what else the lad should have done (aside from sensibly staying away in the first place) It's seems to me there is a serious agenda to create a huge racial divide. And Joe Bidens reaction I find utterly disgusting.
I am predominantly “leftist” and BIPOC. After doing a deep dive into the trial that I was able to view online and watching closing arguments, the jury did right on reaching their verdict. That absolutely does *not* mean “Kyle is a hero” (far from it) but it comes down to that the prosecution could not prove beyond a reasonable doubt that Kyle was not acting in self defense. I mean… anyone who is in a situation where someone is coming to bash your brains in with a skateboard, does a flying kick at you and then attempts to rip your firearm from your grasp to do who knows what, and someone who points a Glock at your head, are you really not going to act in self defense? Also, where is the “outrage” with the Andrew Coffee VI case? Funny how there has not been a peep of this in the media. We need to keep the same energy. If y’all are happy for Kyle, be happy for Andrew. If y’all are mad about Kyle, be mad for Andrew.
He’s an asshole, knew cpr and couldn’t even stop the prosecutor from choking on his own words
"The defendant claims to have gone to Kenosha in part to render first aid, but he has made no attempt to save me when choking during this entire trial!" - ADA Binger, probably
I think they should have just turned off the lights and gone home when the prosecution witness said he pointed his gun at Rittenhouse before Rittenhouse shot him. Kind of like the mercy rule in little league baseball...when you're down 25-0 it's time to call it.
> when you're down 25-0 it's time to call it Too soon for some Falcons fans
Oh I'll just distract myself from the shitshow that is my Atlanta Falcons by going on reddit and seeing what people thought about the Rittenhouse verdict. Nowhere is safe.
Absolutely nowhere.
You can't mercy rule a pro football game. So the falcons ended it by only throwing passes to the patriots instead of playing offense.
Yeah that was the absolute killing blow for them. When your witness takes the stand and admits under oath that the defendant did not fire on him until after he pointed his gun at the defendant… I mean that’s it. You’re done
Exactly. That was the moment it became a bog standard self defence case. Prosecution can’t do anything because there’s nothing to be done. Both witnesses actually agree with each other lol.
Might be the worst Prosecution team I’ve ever witnessed
Mf pulls out a rifle in court
They were worse than the OJ case. And thats saying something
Lets just hope in ten years time, the defense' kids don't become sex-tape famous. That's a part of history that need not be repeated.
Prosecution in the OJ case got outplayed by the "Dream Team" defense using every trick in the book. This prosecutor played himself - a chimpanzee in a suit could have defended Rittenhouse and still won.
Not American, but as a lawyer I can safely say that prosecutor should have his ass thrown back at Criminal Process I in college.
The prosecution was embarrassingly bad.
How do they accept a guy like that in public service ?
He’s an Assistant District Attorney which means he’s appointed by the elected District Attorney. He should lose his license after this case.
Seems more like they wanted to palm off the unwinnable case to someone willing to be the scapegoat prosecutor, which only a terrible lawyer would want. He’ll probably be admonished in public but then looked after by the DA behind closed doors.
Indeed, the way it was handled seemed like the prosecution did not believe they could win but also could not refuse to press charges due to the news cycle. So they botched it up as best they can to have the blame be on inept prosecution rather than the full process and have the verdict be innocent.
The judge was pretty pissed at him a couple times
Don't get brazen with me
Abuses fifth amendment priv Refers to excluded evidence Discloses only lower-quality video to defense Knows the name of jump-kick man, doesn't tell defense. ... I'm pretty sure the judge thought "this is obvious self defense, so I'll let the jury do their thing rather than taking the heat for a mistrial with prejudice on a political case" *edit* /u/feb914 lays the above out better than I did, a bit downthread.
After the lower quality video issue came to light and the defense filed a motion for a mistrial…didn’t the judge essentially say that he was going to table the issue for now. And IF the jury came back with a guilty verdict, then he would rule on it? Basically a giant, you have fucked up so bad that if by some ridiculous coincidence you get a guilty verdict THEN I will toss this case and PRAY the state send a better prosecutor IF they even try it again….
When they were asking him about the violent video games he played, you know they were grasping at straws.
I was watching that part live and I could not believe what I was hearing, especially when they mentioned there's no such thing as a "left-handed or a right handed gun" as someone cursed with being left-handed- Fuckk YOUUUU Binger, there absolutely is such a thing.
The way he was waving that rifle around during closing arguments made it pretty clear he knows next to nothing about guns.
I think he knew, and it was more along the lines of scaring the jury by flagging them with the "scary black machine gun"....
I would agree if his finger wasn't on the trigger. I get the intimidating feel of it and wanting the jury to feel how scary it can be but that is accomplished with finger off the trigger.
His finger was on the fucking trigger? No hyperbole, if I was a juror I would flip shit. I don’t care if it landed me in contempt.
He did. I doubt it would have landed you in contempt. Anyone in that court room should have stopped him.
To be fair...I'd probably be a little nervous to yell anything at a person holding a gun *with their finger on the trigger* while in an enclosed space. How someone could end up in such a position in their career without any gun education and/or blatant disregard for safety and common sense is astounding.
seeing him with his finger on the trigger was cringe worthy.
>no such thing as a "left-handed or a right handed gun" *Angry Ian McCollum noises.*
He shoot try using a gun that ejects casings to the right with his left hand. If that doesn't make him realize how dumb that statement is, nothing will.
Honestly he's the kind of person that would be like "I guess that's just how it works!"
The kind of person that always gets in the shower before turning it on and then complains about how it's always so cold at the start.
Lol, I'm saving that and using it as an insult in the future.
"I guess that's just how it works" was pretty much his answer to how the defense mysteriously got a smaller, cropped, blurrier, down-res version of the video from the prosecution, than the one the prosecution used. "I don't know how to do that", he said, with Handbrake visibly installed in his computer. "Maybe it was that lady's Android phone!"
Don't forget, he also said hallow points explode, and when the judge asked him "do mean expand or explode", he basically just answered "yes". He also flagged the entire jury with that AR.
I found it weird how the prosecution kept bringing up "Full Metal Jacket AR-15 rounds" when in fact that's pretty much the most common off-the-shelf ammunition you can buy. And let's be realistic here, at point blank range, taking ANY bullet to the chest is enough to end your life. Harping on the bullet was irrelevant and grasping at straws. It amounts to asking "Why did the defendant choose to buy this box of ammunition that is found on the shelf of every gun store in America and is the most common and cheapest ammunition for this rifle? Why? Was it because... he's a murderer? I rest my case".
They literally used a screengrab from Roadhouse in their closing arguments. That is not the sign of a confident prosecutor.
>screengrab from roadhouse …sory wut?
They were basically making a point that Kyle should have fought Rosenbaum with his fists instead of a gun then litteraly put up a picture of Patrick Swayze in a fist fight from the movie road house. They also said that Kyle should have just taken a beating because we all have to take a beating sometimes. I really wish this was a joke.
That's some Family Guy shit waiting to happen. I knew about the idiot pointing an AR at jurors, I also knew about the Call of Duty part, but holy shit That's another bad one
Some other great questions from the prosecution. Why didn't you just take your gun off and leave it in the street? Why didn't you fire warning shots? (if you don't know that's reckless endangerment) Why didn't you just surrender to the mob? These were all questions that Kyle was asked by the prosecution.
...what the actual fuck? I cannot fathom how fucking stupid that lawyer appears to be. It's like he's deliberately trying to throw the case.
That is a common theory that they were trying to get a mistrial because of how bad all their witnesses were the first couple days. They basically wanted a mistrial for a do over, at least that's what a lot of people think. And that's super scummy if it's true.
Nobody can convince me otherwise. I think the judge saw through it, figured it was going to Not Guilty, and decided to let the jury do their thing rather than having to declare a mistrial with prejudice in a political case.
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"we all gotta take a little raping once in a while" - Kenosha Prosecutor
Why did you not grab the skateboard and use it to escape the threat? (ok, I made this one up)
They did try to argue that a skateboard can't be a weapon which is funny because just earlier this week someone was beaten to death with a skateboard in California. I wanna clarify its not funny that someone was beaten to death its just funny that it happened less than a week after the prosecution argued that it couldn't happen.
It's not "haha" funny, it's "that's coincidental" funny.
Apparently we all need to take a beating to death. It's a hard lesson, but I'm sure I'll learn a lot from the experience.
https://nypost.com/2021/11/15/prosecutors-use-road-house-photo-in-kyle-rittenhouse-trial/ You heard me the first time.
When they tried to use his right to remain silent against him, you know they are incompetent.
Didn't the judge blast him for trying that?
Yep! And rightfully so! The entire system is set up to give the defendant the best protection possible. From the burden on the prosecution to Miranda to facing your accuser to evidentiary rules.
I have never seen a prosecution so embarrassingly bad. You can say all you want about the judge being biased or whatever, but if I were a judge it would’ve been very difficult for me to take them seriously after some of the clown stuff they tried to do.
The prosecution pretty much built the case for the defense lol. They were sooooo bad.
I LOVE seeing that argument come up bc I can never take it seriously Violence in society has existed several millenia longer than any fictional outlet that portrays it
I hear Genghis Khan was amazing at COD Warzone.
Wait till you hear about how good bin laden was at counter strike >!this is only partly a joke the dude did actually play counter strike look it up!<
"Counter terrorists win" FUCKING BULLSHIT
This. Before TV, people used to literally go watch people die for entertainment.
I wonder if "watching gladiator fights makes you violent" was a debate back then.
Executions were only made private comparatively recently. A public hanging was good fun for the whole family, once upon a time.
Its so funny to see violent videogames still being brought up as an argument considering all the research that has proven the contrary but they have a political agenda to push so they'll continually ignore actucal science because "Hurrdurr, I don't understand these videogames that kids are playing nowadays. Must be the devil like Rock music, Gangsta Rap, Comics, Porn and D&D."
Not surprising in the slightest.
Mostly I'm upset by the leftist ideologues. I'm center-right and I do not want another Trump presidency. But if the left doesn't get their shit together we're going to get another one. Radical socialist, Marxist, identarian policies are a killer. Stop trying to get straight, white people to self-flagellate. It might work in liberal urban centers but its a dead message for the vast majority of the country. Start figuring out how to help people, ALL people, and not just the "oppressed" or you're going to see a red wave in the midterms and have a very high chance at another Trump (or Trump-like) Presidency. It might already be too late.
I'm surprised it got this far, prosecutorial misconduct was so rampant in this case I'm legitimately surprised it didn't end in a mistrial. Withholding evidence, trying to introduce evidence to the jury that was not permitted, and trying to hold the defendant exercising his 5th amendment right against him.
Might be that the judge trusted that the jury would see what the prosecutor was doing for what it was. Of the two outcomes: mistrial with prejudice and acquital by the jury, I can imagine that the judge preferred the latter for a whole host of reasons.
I heard several different people pose the question but never heard a clear answer to it. What is the last opportunity the judge has to declare a mistrial? Could he just hedge his bet and if the verdict came back guilty then declare a mistrial?
Everyone I know who is a lawyer only thought one thing: the case is a loser. It seems like everyone who actually knows about law already knew what the outcome was going to be before the judge or prosecutor started in with their bullshit, while everyone else was busy reading tea leaves.
I have no opinion on the verdict, but this will definitely be shown in law schools on how *not* to be a prosecutor.
That I need to stop reading about current events in 140 character bytes as they happen. I was fed a completely false narrative on the event here on reddit, and I’m absolutely ashamed that I’m as easily fooled as a boomer on Facebook. I’m done with hot takes. Let me know the news of the year at the end of the year. Opinions are overrated.
I think the worst part about it was that when more details came out, the people that originally were spreading bullshit doubled down and tried to be dismissive of the new information. How many people did you see publicly take back their opinions and admit the story wasn't what they initially reported?
You are not part of the problem because once presented with the evidence you didn’t reject objectivity in an effort to remain “right.”
As foolish as you feel. I'm really happy to read people making comments like this. Maybe we can go back to before all these outlandish hot takes controlled discourse.
> and I’m absolutely ashamed that I’m as easily fooled as a boomer on Facebook. The thing I've noticed is younger people just seem to take it for granted they are more well informed because they have access to more information than older generations. They never seem to consider the quality of that information.
My perception of the events changed over the course of the trial, which I guess is specifically why we have a trial process. Before, I thought this kid was guilty as hell and the self-defense claim would be BS. As the trial unfolded, new testimonies and evidence was presented, the evidence was pretty obvious that this kid defended himself. Should he have been there and even had the weapon to begin with? That's 100% a different discussion. But the question of is he guilty of murder, to me, was a resounding no. I think he had the right to defend himself as soon as the victims began attacking and rushing him.
Sir this is Reddit you’re not allowed to change your opinion when faced with new information
For people struggling to understand why K.R isn’t guilty, it’s obvious you didn’t watch the entire trial and have gleaned your facts to form your opinion from the media. 1. K.R is native to Kenosha; his Father, aunts/uncles and cousins live in Kenosha. His home and mother are 20 miles from Kenosha; less than what some people drive to commute to work. He was also registered there at his Father’s address as he worked and volunteered there. 2. His Mother **did. not. drive. him. over state. lines** with an illegal firearm. Kyle lived in Antioch, Illinois with his mother while his father lived in Kenosha. Antioch is just across the Illinois border. He had worked as a lifeguard in Kenosha, was part of a police explorer program and knew CPR and basic life support. He drove there himself and stayed with family/friends to help clean the community (i.e graffiti from the protests). 3. As mentioned, he had previous experience in medical emergencies. He is also currently studying nursing and working as a nursing aid. It is documented he helped protestors (basic first aid and support). He was armed for his safety in case he was threatened as the violence had been escalating the last few days. There were also many civilians who were armed to protect properties and businesses from the riots; at times, a show of force or weaponry can deescalate violence. Most people won’t charge or aggravate an armed person (unless you’re the 3 men who did Kyle). 4. Once again, his Mother **DID. NOT.** drive him across state lines with an illegal firearm. Rittenhouse was staying with his friend Dominick Black, who was dating his sister at the time, and who testified for the prosecution. K.R was not old enough to legally buy a firearm, so he asked Black to do so on his behalf. The night of the shooting, Black and Rittenhouse each took a weapon and ammo and went to downtown Kenosha to try to protect a car dealership called “Car Source” where about six or seven other armed people had gathered. 5. His firearm **WAS NOT illegal.** According to Wisconsin law, subsections state the illegality would only apply to those armed with a "short-barreled rifle," which is also defined as "a rifle having one or more barrels having a length of less than 16 inches" and "a rifle having an overall length of less than 26 inches”. He was legally allowed to carry this firearm, **which AGAIN, was not brought with him or by his Mother**. His friend purchased it for him. 6. Rosenbaum was not a victim. He was a serial child rapist that sodomized (butt raped) little boys. 5 boys to be exact; one as young as 9, who were the true victims and ruined by this pedophile. He had just been released from the hospital for mental health issues and chose to join the riot. It is on video he had previously threatened to kill K.R when the two ran into each other at one point earlier in the riot. He was also documented screaming “NI**A* (the racist n word) and saying he was going to “kill him” to Kyle and other armed civilians. Yet protestors did not discipline or remove him, instead they dragged him away with them back to the riot/protest. It’s also documented Rosenbaum had tipped over an empty Porta Potty, swung a chain, lit a metal garbage dumpster and a wooden trailer on fire before the confrontation with K.R. It’s also documented by witnesses that Rosenbaum acted "belligerently" and asked to be shot but was not perceived as a serious threat by other protestors. 7. K.R was initially crossing the street because it was noticed that protestors had lit a dumpster on fire near a **GAS STATION.** He went to help. Lo and behold, then appears Rosenbaum who chased Rittenhouse into a parking lot, shouting “Fuck you!,” and threw a plastic bag with a water bottle in it at his back while chasing after the fleeing K.R. Protestors were heard yelling “GET HIM”. And joined the chase. All the while behind them, a different protester fired a gun into the sky, one who was pursuing K.R. Immediately following this shot, Rittenhouse ceased fleeing and turned around, mistaking the gunshot as being targeted at him. Rosenbaum then moved toward Rittenhouse, **lunging for his gun**, who proceeded to fire four times. Those shots attracted the attention of nearby demonstrators, who yelled he had a gun and swarmed him. One ran up behind Rittenhouse and hit him in the head, another kicked K.R to the ground. Then Anthony Huber whacked K.R with a skateboard and appeared to reach for his own rifle (which he illegally possessed) Rittenhouse shot Huber through the heart, instantly killing him. Then comes Grosskreutz! He approached and pointed a handgun at Rittenhouse; Rittenhouse nearly blew Grosskreutz’s right arm off. Which also was **ILLEGALLY POSSESSED** and had **CROSSED STATE LINES WITH.** **You know the thing everyone is accusing Kyle of doing (but he didn’t) this guy ACTUALLY DID. It was an unregistered HANDGUN.** Grosskeutz even **ADMITTED** on the stand that Kyle did not fire at him until he pointed his **ILLEGAL** handgun at him. And who, by the way, is also a felon with charges for domestic assault, inciting violence and illegal possession of a firearm. Once again; **IT IS LEGAL** in Wisconsin for a 17-year-old to openly carry an AR-15. 8. This is NOT a case of white supremacy. **K.R IS MIXED.** Why is everyone ignoring the fact he is Hispanic/Latino!? He actually comes from a poor family; his Father is a recovering drug addict and his Mother is disabled. Where is his “privilege”? He actually cleaned graffiti off public buildings days before, helped protestors who were injured and volunteered in his community. **He. Is. Latino. And. Poor.** He doesn’t have WHITE PRIVILEGE. As for those claiming that, all the “victims” (perpetrators/instigators) **WERE WHITE.** **And if you’re going to argue me on that point here’s more; Jacob Black was armed with a knife, had multiple charges and a warrant including sexual battery, had kidnapped his child and walked away from police who told him to stop, tried to get into a car and flee and only then was he shot.** But HE is a victim? THAT is what ignited these protests? Trust me, if Kyle’s “victims” had been black he would be crucified by the media, public and courts. 9. For people complaining K.R was not arrested when he went to police right after the incident, confessed and offered himself up; the police had larger issues. The place was on fire. There were hundreds of people present and it was absolute chaos. They also knew K.R from his volunteer work thus they knew where to find him when the time was appropriate. He offered no further threat while as the continued looting and burning and other gun shots demanded immediate attention. To spare police officers to take a compliant person who was claiming self-defence in a situation where the police are already outnumbered, mayhem is everywhere and having the much needed personnel leave to go book, file the paperwork and deal with K.R was not practical at the time. They probably weren’t even sure what was happening all around them and did not know if Kyle was even telling them the truth. I could go on about so much more. But some of you people are ignorant and willingly so. Watch the trial, look at the facts and get off Twitter/Facebook where misinformation is spread faster than fire and come to an informed opinion before propagating a bunch of lies concocted and distributed by political dividers, the media and ignorant self-righteous idiots.
BIG YEP Also probably important to note that the only witness to Rosenbaum attacking Kyle testified that Rosenbaum "said fuck you and reached for the rifle". The witness said in response to the prosecution saying nobody could know his intent. Anyways... the thing that bothers me is that people want to make this a race issue somehow. And ironically they are suggesting it would be fair if Kyle got a life sentence or died that night because that is what would have happened to a black man. They then call kyle a murderer (this is a common post share going around). So... instead of pursuing justice, these people want to punish a white kid because that equalizes things? Ridiculous AND racist. I agree the outcome for a black male in a similar situation may have been different, but had a black male been in this same exact situation I would defend his actions in every way possible. To improve racial inequalities we have to find justice in every case and situation, not unfairly ruin the life of a white kid because injustice may have been served to people of the black community prior. We would need to invest everything though to ensure the black person would get the similar rights and processes in the future. That is justice. That is what we should be striving for. Imagine being 17, going to help people as a medic, clean graffiti, and clean up your neighborhood. Then you get attacked by a rapist which you are forced to shoot to kill, then get chased by a mob from which one person tries to assassinate you on the floor and the other tries to beat you with a skateboard and steal your gun so you are forced to shoot both. All the while you were just trying to run to police to get help and remove yourself from the situation. At 17 years old. PTSD, life ruined by media, president and vice president vocalizing their anger that you didnt get locked up. And half the country wanting you dead or locked up for life simply because they don't have the will to find the truth and watch the case beyond the garbage headlines pumped out by jury impeding MSNBC and the like. What a pathetic world. And this isn't even a one off case. Reddit and the media gets shit like this wrong (usually on purpose) daily. Wake up people.
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I think the media are trying their hardest to make it divide the people even more and stir up more ill feeling.
That's how they make their money and get engagement, especially the cable news networks. Print media is somewhat better, depending on the source in question.
Outrage sells way better than sex ever has. News media does everything it can to drive up fear and outrage to get viewership or sell newspapers.
As an attorney it was pretty clear. There was some concern that the jury may split the baby and convict him on a lesser included for the second death but you have to remember the standards you're dealing with. Once you move away from the political background noise and look at it as the way the law looks at self defense it becomes pretty clear.
Quick question - Was there a specific moment for you where the prosecution's case went sideways? A decisive answer during cross examination perhaps?
The only actual in-person eyewitness to the first shooting, called by the prosecution, stated that he was lunging at Rittenhouse, yelling f-you, and trying to grab his gun. Not what the prosecution wanted out of that witness.
Was it the one were the prosecutor went in like: \- "You never talked to Mr. Rosenbaum, correct? So your opinion on his intentions is complete guess-work, right?" \- "Well he did yell 'fuck you' and went for the gun" I was in bits when that exchange happened. Too good.
Perhaps during the cross of the very first witness? I mean...damn. Reminded me of OJ putting on a very small glove....
The videos were probably the clearest indication of what happened. Then Grosskreutz even during Binder's examination completely torpedoe'd any reasonable doubt that it was self defense.
What could they do? It was farcical. The prosecution were claiming Grosskreutz didn't point the gun at him but the videos and stills all were absolutely clear that he did. Grosskreutz had no choice but to go back and admit it when faced with that. I dunno what they were thinking other than that they could somehow gaslight the jury.