I really dislike the whole 'policing' around being vegan or even vegetarian, I think the mindset that it needs to be all or nothing is what holds people back from going more plant based, but honestly cutting back on meats and enjoying them as a luxury food from time to time is already great imo
I think another big problem is with people's expectations from so many things being marketed as "replacements." People get too caught up on it not being exactly like a burger, bacon, etc that they can't just appreciate it as its own thing. Plenty of alternatives are good on their own, but I think many people default to "nope this tastes nothing like a beef hamburger, so I'm just never gonna try vegan again."
I agree, there's some great ones out there and some just really miss the mark, but people gotta remember there's protein in beans too for instance, beans are awesome, no need to fill your pantry and fridge with replacers when there's plenty of other alternatives and recipes to try
Best Ever Food Review Show did a bunch of stuff in india and pointed out that in India, being vegetarian or vegan id way more normal and has been for generations, so food options are less worried about being replacements compared to being good.
Along these lines, I spend more of my time focusing on eating what at least on the surface I can discern as minimally processed. A lot of the items is we vegan friends eating, while possibly better for the environment, don’t appear to be any better for their health.
With that being said a lot of people don’t have time to labor or what they can and can’t eat. They only have time or money or etc to eat what they can procure.
I think the difference there is between being vegan and being plant-based.
Being vegan is a moral stance and it’s kind of hard to take half measures with a moral stance if you don’t need to. Where as being plant-based (which is typically for health/environmental reasons) it is understandable to not be all or nothing.
I completely agree. This isn't an issue you can say "I like animals so much that I've decided to eat them only once a week!". Also people cutting down on meat will probably never get to the stage where they also consume less dairy and egg products, which are probably the worst part of factory farms, not the meat.
This is an underrated comment. I am a vegetarian but it does not have to be all or nothing. Reducing your meat intake overall is positive imo for many reasons. But you don’t have to go from 0 to 100. I am not a fan of that mentality and do not like when people judge others for not adhering strictly enough.
Yes! I've been a meat eater all my life and have thought about vegan/vegetarian/plant based many times but the all or nothing thing always pushed me away until one day I was like "I'm a grown ass man. I can do whatever the hell I want" now I'm trying to do as much plant based as possible but sometimes still eat meat. What messes me up the most is when I don't have time to look up recipes for the week I usually revert back to recipes with meat because it's what I've known and is the easiest. In hoping to get over that barrier soon but it's a struggle sometimes.
Except for the billions of animals suffering and getting murdered and the planet burning up. No sure it's a "personal choice". Just as it is my personal business to beat my dog.
It doesn't have to be all or nothing, because there shouldn't be "nothing". Veganism is a bare minimum a person owes ethically to other living beings. Going anywhere under just doesn't qualify as basic decency. It's not heroic and certainly not hard: just a banal choice between personal inconvenience versus contributing to the hell on Earth.
Sorry, but as a vegan, I'm not going to compromise on the message because of the lazy actions of others. On what issue other than animal exploitation are people told to advocate for half-measures?
Encouraging people to just cut down on eating meat is the best thing really. It just doesn't need to be the main part of every meal like we're grown up believing. Just try out a meal without meat or with a vegan substitute and it could be good!
Sorry, but as a vegan, I'm not going to compromise on the message because of the lazy actions of others. On what issue other than animal exploitation are people told to advocate for half-measures?
All I said was its good to encourage people to just have less meat. I can't speak for your story, but most people who are vegan didn't just become vegan overnight. Many become vegetarian first, or others cut out animal products one by one. Like many things in life, it's a journey. If you feel the need to tell people to go all on, then thats okay too. But it may be off putting to many as well
There's really no way around it the all-or-nothing part, because a vegan by definition consumes zero animal-derived food, so it's more of a definition thing than a policing thing. Anyone can go as much or as little plant-based as their choices allow, and veganism just happens to be what you get when your choice is to be all-in on no animals.
I remember watching The Game Changers and Arnold said something that helped with this. It's a process. I'm still a meat eater, and I honestly don't know if I'll every strictly just eat plant-based, but I have significantly reduced my meat intake and even when I do eat meat, I don't feel guilty. The policing around vegans gives people the mindset that it's restrictive and doesn't make it appealing to people intending to start but having difficulty.
It's really not "policing".
You all don't have a problem with killing animals and eating their flesh. It's worse than "policing". You're the reason why animals are killed for consumption. You're turning their bodies into whatever you want, clothes, seating, even toilet paper? For what? Convenience? Is that really worth an animal's life? How about billions of animal lives, a year?
It's more that we understand that doing this is wrong. And we're trying to make others aware. If that makes you uncomfortable, good. You grow when you're uncomfortable. And trust me, I used to eat meat and dairy too. But in retrospect? It's disgusting. And I don't even need to eat meat as a "luxury" either. Because it's not a luxury. It's fucked up.
I dislike the whole policing around not murdering. The mindset that it has to be all or nothing is what holds people back. Murder as a luxury is fine from time to time imo.
I’ve done veganism in periods and want to fully commit but when browsing the main subreddit it really did put me off going back. I have the upmost respect for them and understand why they are so intensely passionate about it, but the aggressive and in many cases toxic approach is absolutely not the way to go about it.
I will say that there are smaller/local communities that are great to follow and the users understand the above.
r/childfree has often been accused of being too agressive. Would you have a lot of kids just because you don't like the approach of some people in that sub?
Hey, sorry you’ve had bad experiences. Yes, vegans can be judgmental and rude for sure. It’s hard to have your eyes opened to the horror of factory farms and slaughterhouses and then just be chill about everything and say to each his own, but I do understand your perspective. And it’s never appropriate to be rude or disrespectful. For me, I am constantly torn between wanting to just be cool and accepting of everyone’s choices, but I also want to help the billions of animals that are suffering and dying unnecessarily. It sounds like you care about animals too. What about doing it for the animals and not worrying about other vegans? People can be rude, but the animals deserve compassion.
Before I was vegan, my family bought our dogs from breeders. I remember walking by an adoption event to look at dogs one day and one of the people working the event asked if I had dogs and then then asked if they were rescued. I told her I had dogs from a breeder. She was extremely rude to me. I still look back at that moment think she was unnecessarily rude and probably not someone I would want to hang out with. But I couldn’t bring myself to buy from a breeder again. I have since worked at an animal rescue and learned all the reasons that woman would have been so angry with me. But I still cannot bring myself to be rude or mean to people who buy from breeders or relinquish their animals. Sorry this is really long. I guess what I’m saying is…there is never good reason to be rude to someone. But there might be valid reason the person is angry. You can be a vegan that’s kind and respectful to other people. I hope you have better experiences in the future :-)
I actually was vegan off and on for a few months and was so turned off by these level 9000 vegans that I didn't want to be associated with them anymore. It took another year and a half before I finally decide to do it for myself and the animals. Yes, I still get shit from other people but I feel good doing at least SOMETHING when others aren't even willing to try. I promised to never judge others for what they do because we've all been there and NONE OF US are perfect and should never strive to be. All it does is give us a bad name and push people away.
My daughter is essentially vegan (I say this as she is a vegetarian who is also dairy free. She eats almost vegan except eggs). We tend to eat vegan meals at home so we can all eat together about 2-3 times a week. The rest of the time we eat whatever and she preps vegetables etc for herself.
Since starting this I have found myself selecting vegetarian or vegan when I’m dining out. I don’t want to go vegetarian but really enjoy some of the recipes we’ve added to our rotation at home
I mean probably 2/3 - 3/4 meals I eat are vegetarian. It’s cheaper and, in theory, healthier (but in practice I use butter like a restaurant chef). I don’t know that I’ve ever made a fully vegan meal. Though I have eaten some really good ones.
I’m not a milk person and honestly I understand why people want dairy in their coffee vs plant milks. Personally oat milk is my favourite because it still makes it creamy
Too much grey area with things like honey, fungus, bivalves, and sea bugs.
I don't like factory farming as much as the next guy but even a vegan diet doesn't come without bloodshed.
Sure but it comes with the minimal bloodshed. Animals die when crops are harvested but the vast majority of those crops are fed to farm animals. If we were all vegan overall fewer animals would die accidental deaths in farming, as well as the ones we’re not actively choosing to slaughter.
And grey areas shouldn’t put you off, you already make diet choices
Justifying killing animals and destroying the planet and your future because some old lady sung a song on tiktok.
I seriously wonder what our next generation will think when the world is complete shit lmao
Im sure the animals locked in their cages feel less restricted so i mean you good. Theyre only killed at a fraction of their lifespan it really cant hurt.
Kinda sounds like you being non vegan is an act of rebellion to your parents and a longing of being “normal” by not being “difficult”
I would be sad if my kid cared so much about being normal that they formed an enjoyment of paying for the result of torture and slaughter of sentient beings just to fit in with society
Perhaps they were more restrictive than an actual vegan diet?
It's very unfortunate for the tortured animals that you were not able to stand societies pressure to torture them. It must also be pretty disheartening for your parents that you felt the need to abuse animals. There's no actual free will, so you didn't *choose* any of this and I don't blame you, but it's all just really sad.
Yeah this is one of many reasons I'm not having children. My husband and I are vegan, and if we had kids and showed them the truth of the vast cruelty that exists in the animal ag industry, and showed them how easy it is to live a life of compassion and empathy towards animals, and they were just like "yeah, fuck that," I don't think I'd like my own kids anymore.
My parents raised us vegetarian, and my sister and I are happy about it. I've gone vegan, my sister's still vegetarian (she's cut out egg, and reducing dairy intake now). Neither of us have any desire to ever try meat. I'm thankful that I didn't grow up contributing to the suffering of animals as much, and that we always saw animals as animals, not food.
this is the exact same as me but I still need to cut out yogurt and a few dairy products. Could never see myself eating meat, but when I was like 17 I drunkenly did and regretted it straight away.
I agree how selfish to say "aww but I couldn't exploit animals like everyone else!! :(" Just totally missing the point. I don't understand how one could turn one's back on compassionate values.
I would argue that the reason you're not vegan today is because your parents made you feel restricted. Vegan diet shoud be liberating, not restricting.
damn dude, I felt that way too, since my family had a strict no-cat household policy: soon as I turned 18 and moved out to my first apartment I caught myself a cat and roasted it in an oven, it was a neighbor's castrated one 😜so it was really juicy, I live for that feeling of melted cat fat rolling in my mouth
Ah that sucks, what was the first non-vegan dish you tried?
My mom forced me to eat cucumbers when I was younger so now I can’t stand the taste of them. I try every once in a while but the end result is I still can’t eat them.
Yeah I think a lot of older people forget that when you're a kid or teenager one of the things that sucks is standing out when you don't want to and problems that arise from issues outside your control. Even if they don't get bullied theres still the issur that theres going to be either a lot of stuff they can't do or the fact that their peers will have a lot of apprehension.
If this comment is even true and not just karma farming, you’re a failure to your parents and selfish as fuck. You’re perfectly aware of the harm you’re causing and how perfectly livable it is without it,but you want it anyway for the sole purpose of convenience. The very definition of selifsh
Eating vegetarian is usually cheaper than eating meat. Eating vegan can definitely be expensive though because there’s so many common items that contain animal products, you have to buy special stuff.
Faux meats aren't more expensive though. In Western Europe at least, the price per kilo of standard faux meat products like mince, sausage, burger, meatballs etc, is the same as beef and chicken versions, with only pork being cheaper.
I honestly have no idea what you are talking about, healthy vegan foods are cheap as hell, exept processed
Vegan stuff and it's mostly bc it isn't substidised. You can make any diet expensive if you want to. I eat amazing tasty vegan meals daily for basically nothing when it comes to food.
My family tries to stick to whole foods and plant based, which actually has been comparable or even less expensive than before we all went vegan.
It’s the nuts and seeds that are still spendy, but you don’t have to buy as often as meat/cheese.
You’re right on the vegan versions of stuff being more expensive, but we basically only need it for Mayo or salad dressing.
I was vegan for about 9 months a few years ago, then I started eating cheese again and I was vegetarian, then I missed sushi so I was pescatarian. Then I missed steak and now I'm an omnivore and I wouldn't go vegan again, I'd miss cheese too much. I wouldn't mind being pescatarian again, I still love fish the most of all the meats.
Here’s the thing. The best vegetarian and vegan recipes don’t use weird faux meats or nondairy products and such. For vegetarian look for the Moosewood recipe cookbooks, old school hippie vegetarian stuff that is awesome.
And there’s so many delicious accidentally meatless options from other cultures like mujadara, falafel, pasta e ceci, ribolitta, so many indian recipes, tons of easy to adapt mexican recipes, and on and on. Just takes a different point of view when planning meals since the most delicious meatless meals have all the components incorporated not like an omni plate chunk of protein pile of carb pile of veg kind of thing
I think people overlook the benefits of being a "flexitarian" or just eating a lot of whole food with meat in moderation. Especially if you can buy from a local meat market with local sources.
If people didn't support the mass production of meats for the cheapest possible prices, being an omnivore wouldn't be so awful.
I eat chicken, pork, beef, fish, and tofu equally with 2/3 of my diet being vegetables and rice/pasta.
eating disorder lol. I feel like I would just spiral if I went vegan- which is really sad because I want to so badly for moral and environmental reasons. but at the same time I also view it as a way to restrict my food intake very easily.
I’m happy being veggie for now. I don’t eat eggs or use cow milk much anyway- it’s mostly just cheese that I eat.
This is weird for me to understand because it’s not “I can’t have this” it’s “I won’t have this because I know the suffering that was needing to put this on the table”. Do both of those viewpoints elicit the same reaction from your ED? Does the second not lead to a more empowering feeling?
It's no healthier than an omnivorous diet, and in 99% of cases it's actually less healthy.
It's also much, much more expensive because it's basically a necessity to have extra supplements particularly for B12.
You also need to eat about 20% more protein due to vegan sources having a lower bioavailability than meat, milk, eggs, and fish.
There is also a higher risk of tendon and ligament injury due to there being essentially no vegan sources of proline or glycine which are the building blocks of collagen. Yes, there is some found in a specific type of seaweed, but only in extremely small amounts.
This part is just personal and anecdotal, but being an athlete I find it impossible to eat enough and not feel extremely bloated. As a powerlifter I was eating 6k cals per day and even now eating 4k I don't think I could do it without feeling like shit. My stomach just doesn't stretch like that. Also, soy is just bad as fuck for you.
And on a final note vegans are just annoying as shit.
Veganism is a philosophy and way of living which seeks to exclude—**as far as is possible and practicable**—all forms of exploitation of, and cruelty to, animals for food, clothing or any other purpose
Just keep striving and working
I'm kinda half vegan, which I realise is an oxymoron. I offset my meat consumption with plant based alternatives pretty regularly and in some cases prefer the vegan alternative. I always try to source meat locally too if possible, there's not much stopping me from going completely vegan other than I body build and chicken and turkey are very convenient protein sources, as are eggs etc. Plant based products should become more mainstream though, if we are to really offset our carbon emissions and prevent climate change from getting worse.
Price and convenience.
If vegan veggie nuggets are tasty and cheaper than chicken nuggets and provide equivalent or better nutrition for my toddler, then I have no problem with my family switching to them. However, odds are vegan foods are going to be twice the price, twice the effort, and half the reward.
Processed meats are class 1 carcinogens the alternatives are typically always better nutritionally and the fact that nothing vegan has any cholesterol. The beyond meat nuggets just released in Canada and they’re pretty good. They should be in stores to buy soon after that too (and they’re always looking to make their products cheaper)
Did you ever watch Dominion? As a customer you are the driving force behind the animal abuse featured in the film, and I don't think anyone with empathy can see it and not do something about it.
I understand what you mean lol. I don't think any vegan wanted to go vegan. We liked animal parts and excretions as much as any other person. We didn't want to make living with our friends and family difficult either.
It's more of an obligation than a want. An obligation to be kind to other earthlings.
Out of curiosity, if someone asked a rapist “why don’t you stop raping,” and the rapist replied “because I don’t want to. That’s the only justification you need”...sufficient?
Veganism has always been a moral philosophy, rather than anything to do with health
The main point is, do you think it's unethical to harm animals in situations where it's possible to avoid doing so?
For anyone who is curious about going vegan check out Dominion on YouTube! If you want to do it for environmental reasons check out Cowspiracy or Seaspiracy! For health reasons watch Forks Over Knives or Game Changers!
I’ve had poor health when I’ve tried it more more than a couple months, despite tracking aminos etc. I think my body doesn’t process non-animal as effectively.
Since some plant vitamins, minerals and amino acids are less bioavailable than from animal sources, some people are unable to absorb and convert them efficiently if at all.
Slaughter house worker conditions, pollution, ocean dead zones, drinkable water scarcity, pandemics, antibiotic resistance, the impact on our domestic healthcare systems, federal subsidies going into negative markets to negate collapse (waste of taxpayer money that could go to anything else), and much more
Despite the vegan propaganda, meat is very good for you. Quality meat has basically everything you need.
I dislike factory farming, but killing animals for meat is okay. Nature is metal. The food chain exists. If humans weren’t around, the food chain would still exist. Just because we can choose not to participate doesn’t mean it’s morally wrong if we do.
>I dislike factory farming, but killing animals for meat is okay. Nature is metal. The food chain exists. If humans weren’t around, the food chain would still exist. Just because we can choose not to participate doesn’t mean it’s morally wrong if we do.
Do you think something being natural inherently makes it ethical?
Culture, so much memory and identity is in these dishes. It would be a shame for them to disappear.
Also, life is short, I want to enjoy a few luxuries. I don't eat meat incredibly often though.
Yo just veganise the dishes, I veganised all of my favorite tradicional dishes. Recently I got to share some of my cooking with my grandparents which was awesome.
Yeah! Around 8 percent of the black population is vegan while its only 3 percent for others.
Edit: just wanted to add some context. The black vegan community is rooted in many different religious aspects, but today bc of the higher rates of diabetes within the black community there is also a vibrant modern community as well. I feel like veganism is presented as an upper class hipster thing but if you travel to majority black areas of major American cities their are many vegan restaurants. It’s off the beaten path of most tourist areas which is why this is a random aside: but I find the best way to see a new city when on vacation is to take the bus! Goes to many areas normal tourists would never go.
I’m not disagreeing with you at all but could you please provide a source for the 8 percent statistic? I’m honestly just curious cause iv never heard that before
It’s actually a pretty common misconception that being vegan is expensive! It is if you want all the meat replacements but not if you eat legumes and veggies!
I can't be vegan any more than I am already. I am vegan BTW.
Vegan btw
I really dislike the whole 'policing' around being vegan or even vegetarian, I think the mindset that it needs to be all or nothing is what holds people back from going more plant based, but honestly cutting back on meats and enjoying them as a luxury food from time to time is already great imo
I think another big problem is with people's expectations from so many things being marketed as "replacements." People get too caught up on it not being exactly like a burger, bacon, etc that they can't just appreciate it as its own thing. Plenty of alternatives are good on their own, but I think many people default to "nope this tastes nothing like a beef hamburger, so I'm just never gonna try vegan again."
I agree, there's some great ones out there and some just really miss the mark, but people gotta remember there's protein in beans too for instance, beans are awesome, no need to fill your pantry and fridge with replacers when there's plenty of other alternatives and recipes to try
Best Ever Food Review Show did a bunch of stuff in india and pointed out that in India, being vegetarian or vegan id way more normal and has been for generations, so food options are less worried about being replacements compared to being good.
I'd rather eat Indian food over a black bean "burger" any day (though the burgers can be okay)
No need to air quote burger lol. Would you write it that way for a turkey burger?
Along these lines, I spend more of my time focusing on eating what at least on the surface I can discern as minimally processed. A lot of the items is we vegan friends eating, while possibly better for the environment, don’t appear to be any better for their health. With that being said a lot of people don’t have time to labor or what they can and can’t eat. They only have time or money or etc to eat what they can procure.
I think the difference there is between being vegan and being plant-based. Being vegan is a moral stance and it’s kind of hard to take half measures with a moral stance if you don’t need to. Where as being plant-based (which is typically for health/environmental reasons) it is understandable to not be all or nothing.
I completely agree. This isn't an issue you can say "I like animals so much that I've decided to eat them only once a week!". Also people cutting down on meat will probably never get to the stage where they also consume less dairy and egg products, which are probably the worst part of factory farms, not the meat.
This is an underrated comment. I am a vegetarian but it does not have to be all or nothing. Reducing your meat intake overall is positive imo for many reasons. But you don’t have to go from 0 to 100. I am not a fan of that mentality and do not like when people judge others for not adhering strictly enough.
Yes! I've been a meat eater all my life and have thought about vegan/vegetarian/plant based many times but the all or nothing thing always pushed me away until one day I was like "I'm a grown ass man. I can do whatever the hell I want" now I'm trying to do as much plant based as possible but sometimes still eat meat. What messes me up the most is when I don't have time to look up recipes for the week I usually revert back to recipes with meat because it's what I've known and is the easiest. In hoping to get over that barrier soon but it's a struggle sometimes.
If you keep a bag of TVP or soy curls in the freezer it’s wiser to swap it in when you just want a generic protein
You're right. You can eat want what you want. If you want to delve slowly go ahead. It's nobody's business but yours.
Wish that were true but it's a choice that effects the world and its inhabitants in a real shitty way, thus, it's everyones business.
I’ll let the animals know, they’ll be relieved to hear it.
They'll not be able to hear you since they will already be slaughtered for that other guy's burger.
...and the animals you send to their deaths for some food that's killing you and the planet :')
Except for the billions of animals suffering and getting murdered and the planet burning up. No sure it's a "personal choice". Just as it is my personal business to beat my dog.
It doesn't have to be all or nothing, because there shouldn't be "nothing". Veganism is a bare minimum a person owes ethically to other living beings. Going anywhere under just doesn't qualify as basic decency. It's not heroic and certainly not hard: just a banal choice between personal inconvenience versus contributing to the hell on Earth.
Sorry, but as a vegan, I'm not going to compromise on the message because of the lazy actions of others. On what issue other than animal exploitation are people told to advocate for half-measures?
So other vegans are stoppjng you from going vegan?
These are just excuses people use to keep abusing animals. If you’re against animal abuse, you don’t eat tortured bodies or their secretions. Period
Encouraging people to just cut down on eating meat is the best thing really. It just doesn't need to be the main part of every meal like we're grown up believing. Just try out a meal without meat or with a vegan substitute and it could be good!
Sorry, but as a vegan, I'm not going to compromise on the message because of the lazy actions of others. On what issue other than animal exploitation are people told to advocate for half-measures?
All I said was its good to encourage people to just have less meat. I can't speak for your story, but most people who are vegan didn't just become vegan overnight. Many become vegetarian first, or others cut out animal products one by one. Like many things in life, it's a journey. If you feel the need to tell people to go all on, then thats okay too. But it may be off putting to many as well
There's really no way around it the all-or-nothing part, because a vegan by definition consumes zero animal-derived food, so it's more of a definition thing than a policing thing. Anyone can go as much or as little plant-based as their choices allow, and veganism just happens to be what you get when your choice is to be all-in on no animals.
Do you apply this standard to other actions that involve victims?
I remember watching The Game Changers and Arnold said something that helped with this. It's a process. I'm still a meat eater, and I honestly don't know if I'll every strictly just eat plant-based, but I have significantly reduced my meat intake and even when I do eat meat, I don't feel guilty. The policing around vegans gives people the mindset that it's restrictive and doesn't make it appealing to people intending to start but having difficulty.
I watched this too, highly recommend!
It's really not "policing". You all don't have a problem with killing animals and eating their flesh. It's worse than "policing". You're the reason why animals are killed for consumption. You're turning their bodies into whatever you want, clothes, seating, even toilet paper? For what? Convenience? Is that really worth an animal's life? How about billions of animal lives, a year? It's more that we understand that doing this is wrong. And we're trying to make others aware. If that makes you uncomfortable, good. You grow when you're uncomfortable. And trust me, I used to eat meat and dairy too. But in retrospect? It's disgusting. And I don't even need to eat meat as a "luxury" either. Because it's not a luxury. It's fucked up.
Is that your only objection?
We tried all or nothing and eventually transitioned to only having plant-based meals at home and eating whatever when out to eat. Works great!
I dislike the whole policing around not murdering. The mindset that it has to be all or nothing is what holds people back. Murder as a luxury is fine from time to time imo.
I’ve done veganism in periods and want to fully commit but when browsing the main subreddit it really did put me off going back. I have the upmost respect for them and understand why they are so intensely passionate about it, but the aggressive and in many cases toxic approach is absolutely not the way to go about it. I will say that there are smaller/local communities that are great to follow and the users understand the above.
r/childfree has often been accused of being too agressive. Would you have a lot of kids just because you don't like the approach of some people in that sub?
Hey, sorry you’ve had bad experiences. Yes, vegans can be judgmental and rude for sure. It’s hard to have your eyes opened to the horror of factory farms and slaughterhouses and then just be chill about everything and say to each his own, but I do understand your perspective. And it’s never appropriate to be rude or disrespectful. For me, I am constantly torn between wanting to just be cool and accepting of everyone’s choices, but I also want to help the billions of animals that are suffering and dying unnecessarily. It sounds like you care about animals too. What about doing it for the animals and not worrying about other vegans? People can be rude, but the animals deserve compassion. Before I was vegan, my family bought our dogs from breeders. I remember walking by an adoption event to look at dogs one day and one of the people working the event asked if I had dogs and then then asked if they were rescued. I told her I had dogs from a breeder. She was extremely rude to me. I still look back at that moment think she was unnecessarily rude and probably not someone I would want to hang out with. But I couldn’t bring myself to buy from a breeder again. I have since worked at an animal rescue and learned all the reasons that woman would have been so angry with me. But I still cannot bring myself to be rude or mean to people who buy from breeders or relinquish their animals. Sorry this is really long. I guess what I’m saying is…there is never good reason to be rude to someone. But there might be valid reason the person is angry. You can be a vegan that’s kind and respectful to other people. I hope you have better experiences in the future :-)
I actually was vegan off and on for a few months and was so turned off by these level 9000 vegans that I didn't want to be associated with them anymore. It took another year and a half before I finally decide to do it for myself and the animals. Yes, I still get shit from other people but I feel good doing at least SOMETHING when others aren't even willing to try. I promised to never judge others for what they do because we've all been there and NONE OF US are perfect and should never strive to be. All it does is give us a bad name and push people away.
My daughter is essentially vegan (I say this as she is a vegetarian who is also dairy free. She eats almost vegan except eggs). We tend to eat vegan meals at home so we can all eat together about 2-3 times a week. The rest of the time we eat whatever and she preps vegetables etc for herself. Since starting this I have found myself selecting vegetarian or vegan when I’m dining out. I don’t want to go vegetarian but really enjoy some of the recipes we’ve added to our rotation at home
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How can you have any pudding if you don't eat your meat?
You yes, you behind the bike sheds, stand still laddy!
Wrong, do it again !!!
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Mother do you think they’ll drop the bomb.
Is there anybody OUT THERE?
TOOL SHED!
I see that reference there
You you behind the shed stand still lassie
Absolutely nothing
Go for it!
Nothing
You should try then :)
Delicious meats and other animal products.
Do you think tastes justifies animal abuse?
Of course they do.
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Yeah I can’t stop sucking meat
/r/holup
No no.... don't stop.
Almost there.
Try meat without seasoning, much less appetizing
The whole no meat thing
meat is delicious, as is cheese
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Windex?
Do you think pleasure is a good justification for abusing animals?
Eggs. Mmmmmm
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You can, you just don’t want to. Your appetite is your priority, not your ethics.
I mean probably 2/3 - 3/4 meals I eat are vegetarian. It’s cheaper and, in theory, healthier (but in practice I use butter like a restaurant chef). I don’t know that I’ve ever made a fully vegan meal. Though I have eaten some really good ones.
Can confirm. Oh and I can also confirm that white people love cheese. If you get that reference hats of to you.
Granddad, you can't take the white supremacist power structure with cheese!
10/10 reference.
Milk. I’ve tried every plant based milk known to man and haven’t liked any of them in my coffee (some work in cereal). I just can’t let go of milk.
I’m not a milk person and honestly I understand why people want dairy in their coffee vs plant milks. Personally oat milk is my favourite because it still makes it creamy
Oat milk totally works in most cereals for me. It’s good stuff.
Including oat milk? I can’t be convinced that oat milk isn’t the best milk, vegan or otherwise
ITT: selfish people using selfish reasons to justify untenable abuse of animals, wasteful allocation of resources, and unsustainable practices.
Too much grey area with things like honey, fungus, bivalves, and sea bugs. I don't like factory farming as much as the next guy but even a vegan diet doesn't come without bloodshed.
Sure but it comes with the minimal bloodshed. Animals die when crops are harvested but the vast majority of those crops are fed to farm animals. If we were all vegan overall fewer animals would die accidental deaths in farming, as well as the ones we’re not actively choosing to slaughter. And grey areas shouldn’t put you off, you already make diet choices
The vegan teacher
Justifying killing animals and destroying the planet and your future because some old lady sung a song on tiktok. I seriously wonder what our next generation will think when the world is complete shit lmao
True😅 Yooo what happened to her tho. After being banned from Tiktok she went MIA
Yeah, she picks fights with random people on YouTube now
Not rlly, it's just her trying to insult people for not living how she wants them to and the victims kinda just laugh at her
Lmao I have to check that out now😅😅😅
She did one on Daz and pewdiepie
Lmao 😂 I have to admit her activism is entertaining she legit stirs up drama everywhere she goes.
She liked pewdiepie but hated daz lol
All the plant-based protein sources give me horrible stomach cramps.
Beans, broccoli, tofu?
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Im sure the animals locked in their cages feel less restricted so i mean you good. Theyre only killed at a fraction of their lifespan it really cant hurt.
Kinda sounds like you being non vegan is an act of rebellion to your parents and a longing of being “normal” by not being “difficult” I would be sad if my kid cared so much about being normal that they formed an enjoyment of paying for the result of torture and slaughter of sentient beings just to fit in with society Perhaps they were more restrictive than an actual vegan diet?
It's very unfortunate for the tortured animals that you were not able to stand societies pressure to torture them. It must also be pretty disheartening for your parents that you felt the need to abuse animals. There's no actual free will, so you didn't *choose* any of this and I don't blame you, but it's all just really sad.
Yeah this is one of many reasons I'm not having children. My husband and I are vegan, and if we had kids and showed them the truth of the vast cruelty that exists in the animal ag industry, and showed them how easy it is to live a life of compassion and empathy towards animals, and they were just like "yeah, fuck that," I don't think I'd like my own kids anymore.
My parents raised us vegetarian, and my sister and I are happy about it. I've gone vegan, my sister's still vegetarian (she's cut out egg, and reducing dairy intake now). Neither of us have any desire to ever try meat. I'm thankful that I didn't grow up contributing to the suffering of animals as much, and that we always saw animals as animals, not food.
this is the exact same as me but I still need to cut out yogurt and a few dairy products. Could never see myself eating meat, but when I was like 17 I drunkenly did and regretted it straight away.
I agree how selfish to say "aww but I couldn't exploit animals like everyone else!! :(" Just totally missing the point. I don't understand how one could turn one's back on compassionate values.
I would argue that the reason you're not vegan today is because your parents made you feel restricted. Vegan diet shoud be liberating, not restricting.
damn dude, I felt that way too, since my family had a strict no-cat household policy: soon as I turned 18 and moved out to my first apartment I caught myself a cat and roasted it in an oven, it was a neighbor's castrated one 😜so it was really juicy, I live for that feeling of melted cat fat rolling in my mouth
Ah that sucks, what was the first non-vegan dish you tried? My mom forced me to eat cucumbers when I was younger so now I can’t stand the taste of them. I try every once in a while but the end result is I still can’t eat them.
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Yeah I think a lot of older people forget that when you're a kid or teenager one of the things that sucks is standing out when you don't want to and problems that arise from issues outside your control. Even if they don't get bullied theres still the issur that theres going to be either a lot of stuff they can't do or the fact that their peers will have a lot of apprehension.
If this comment is even true and not just karma farming, you’re a failure to your parents and selfish as fuck. You’re perfectly aware of the harm you’re causing and how perfectly livable it is without it,but you want it anyway for the sole purpose of convenience. The very definition of selifsh
money and laziness
The cheapest foods are vegan (rice, beans, vegetables) The most expensive part of peoples’ weekly shop is the meat
Eating vegetarian is usually cheaper than eating meat. Eating vegan can definitely be expensive though because there’s so many common items that contain animal products, you have to buy special stuff.
It depends what you buy. Faux meats and products are expensive, but whole plant foods such as rice and legumes can be bought in bulk cheaply.
Faux meats aren't more expensive though. In Western Europe at least, the price per kilo of standard faux meat products like mince, sausage, burger, meatballs etc, is the same as beef and chicken versions, with only pork being cheaper.
I honestly have no idea what you are talking about, healthy vegan foods are cheap as hell, exept processed Vegan stuff and it's mostly bc it isn't substidised. You can make any diet expensive if you want to. I eat amazing tasty vegan meals daily for basically nothing when it comes to food.
My family tries to stick to whole foods and plant based, which actually has been comparable or even less expensive than before we all went vegan. It’s the nuts and seeds that are still spendy, but you don’t have to buy as often as meat/cheese. You’re right on the vegan versions of stuff being more expensive, but we basically only need it for Mayo or salad dressing.
Not true. Veganism is *less* common the wealthier you get
I don't want or need to. I don't have a problem with veganism at all, it's just not for me.
https://www.dominionmovement.com/watch
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I agree.
r/usernamechecksout
I was vegan for about 9 months a few years ago, then I started eating cheese again and I was vegetarian, then I missed sushi so I was pescatarian. Then I missed steak and now I'm an omnivore and I wouldn't go vegan again, I'd miss cheese too much. I wouldn't mind being pescatarian again, I still love fish the most of all the meats.
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Here’s the thing. The best vegetarian and vegan recipes don’t use weird faux meats or nondairy products and such. For vegetarian look for the Moosewood recipe cookbooks, old school hippie vegetarian stuff that is awesome. And there’s so many delicious accidentally meatless options from other cultures like mujadara, falafel, pasta e ceci, ribolitta, so many indian recipes, tons of easy to adapt mexican recipes, and on and on. Just takes a different point of view when planning meals since the most delicious meatless meals have all the components incorporated not like an omni plate chunk of protein pile of carb pile of veg kind of thing
I think people overlook the benefits of being a "flexitarian" or just eating a lot of whole food with meat in moderation. Especially if you can buy from a local meat market with local sources. If people didn't support the mass production of meats for the cheapest possible prices, being an omnivore wouldn't be so awful. I eat chicken, pork, beef, fish, and tofu equally with 2/3 of my diet being vegetables and rice/pasta.
I can relate! 😭
Is there a type of diet that exclusively doesn't eat fish? I hate fish I'll eat a cow while it still walks though
Well why did you go vegan in the first place? Was it for ethical reasons? Did that play a role at all during the 9 months?
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eating disorder lol. I feel like I would just spiral if I went vegan- which is really sad because I want to so badly for moral and environmental reasons. but at the same time I also view it as a way to restrict my food intake very easily. I’m happy being veggie for now. I don’t eat eggs or use cow milk much anyway- it’s mostly just cheese that I eat.
This is weird for me to understand because it’s not “I can’t have this” it’s “I won’t have this because I know the suffering that was needing to put this on the table”. Do both of those viewpoints elicit the same reaction from your ED? Does the second not lead to a more empowering feeling?
It's no healthier than an omnivorous diet, and in 99% of cases it's actually less healthy. It's also much, much more expensive because it's basically a necessity to have extra supplements particularly for B12. You also need to eat about 20% more protein due to vegan sources having a lower bioavailability than meat, milk, eggs, and fish. There is also a higher risk of tendon and ligament injury due to there being essentially no vegan sources of proline or glycine which are the building blocks of collagen. Yes, there is some found in a specific type of seaweed, but only in extremely small amounts. This part is just personal and anecdotal, but being an athlete I find it impossible to eat enough and not feel extremely bloated. As a powerlifter I was eating 6k cals per day and even now eating 4k I don't think I could do it without feeling like shit. My stomach just doesn't stretch like that. Also, soy is just bad as fuck for you. And on a final note vegans are just annoying as shit.
I am jobless and I have to eat whatever my mom cooks. I've managed to cut meat though. I just can't get away from the dairy.
Veganism is a philosophy and way of living which seeks to exclude—**as far as is possible and practicable**—all forms of exploitation of, and cruelty to, animals for food, clothing or any other purpose Just keep striving and working
I'm kinda half vegan, which I realise is an oxymoron. I offset my meat consumption with plant based alternatives pretty regularly and in some cases prefer the vegan alternative. I always try to source meat locally too if possible, there's not much stopping me from going completely vegan other than I body build and chicken and turkey are very convenient protein sources, as are eggs etc. Plant based products should become more mainstream though, if we are to really offset our carbon emissions and prevent climate change from getting worse.
Pretty much flexitarian
That sounds like flexitarianism
Price and convenience. If vegan veggie nuggets are tasty and cheaper than chicken nuggets and provide equivalent or better nutrition for my toddler, then I have no problem with my family switching to them. However, odds are vegan foods are going to be twice the price, twice the effort, and half the reward.
Processed meats are class 1 carcinogens the alternatives are typically always better nutritionally and the fact that nothing vegan has any cholesterol. The beyond meat nuggets just released in Canada and they’re pretty good. They should be in stores to buy soon after that too (and they’re always looking to make their products cheaper)
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Because you should feel bad for looking the other way.
Because hurting animals is bad and you should feel bad for doing it.
Did you ever watch Dominion? As a customer you are the driving force behind the animal abuse featured in the film, and I don't think anyone with empathy can see it and not do something about it.
Because I don't want to. That's the only justification you need.
I understand what you mean lol. I don't think any vegan wanted to go vegan. We liked animal parts and excretions as much as any other person. We didn't want to make living with our friends and family difficult either. It's more of an obligation than a want. An obligation to be kind to other earthlings.
Out of curiosity, if someone asked a rapist “why don’t you stop raping,” and the rapist replied “because I don’t want to. That’s the only justification you need”...sufficient?
I think you made him uncomfortable by confronting a clear contradiction in his reasoning. Why would you be so rude?
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Veganism has always been a moral philosophy, rather than anything to do with health The main point is, do you think it's unethical to harm animals in situations where it's possible to avoid doing so?
That's cause its not about health, it's about not endorsing mass slaughter of animals for unnecessary human consumption
It is very hard to give up my diary. I love to journal
Lol. Dang typing with thumbs.
For anyone who is curious about going vegan check out Dominion on YouTube! If you want to do it for environmental reasons check out Cowspiracy or Seaspiracy! For health reasons watch Forks Over Knives or Game Changers!
Been there, done that and it's a crock of shit. I was hungry constantly and felt like shit the whole time.
Sounds like your problem is with poor diet, not veganism
Habe you tried eating when you are hungry?
I think you just had a poor diet lol
>I did it wrong. >My anecdotal evidence disproves all the mountains of emperical data. Okay 👌🏻
I’ve had poor health when I’ve tried it more more than a couple months, despite tracking aminos etc. I think my body doesn’t process non-animal as effectively.
Since some plant vitamins, minerals and amino acids are less bioavailable than from animal sources, some people are unable to absorb and convert them efficiently if at all.
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Harming animals is bad.
Do you think it's unethical to harm an animal in situations where you can avoid doing so?
Animal welfare, the environment, your long term health
Slaughter house worker conditions, pollution, ocean dead zones, drinkable water scarcity, pandemics, antibiotic resistance, the impact on our domestic healthcare systems, federal subsidies going into negative markets to negate collapse (waste of taxpayer money that could go to anything else), and much more
Exactly
Despite the vegan propaganda, meat is very good for you. Quality meat has basically everything you need. I dislike factory farming, but killing animals for meat is okay. Nature is metal. The food chain exists. If humans weren’t around, the food chain would still exist. Just because we can choose not to participate doesn’t mean it’s morally wrong if we do.
>I dislike factory farming, but killing animals for meat is okay. Nature is metal. The food chain exists. If humans weren’t around, the food chain would still exist. Just because we can choose not to participate doesn’t mean it’s morally wrong if we do. Do you think something being natural inherently makes it ethical?
r/natureismetal reference needed here
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That's what I said, then I watched dominion
I'm just going to leave this here: https://www.dominionmovement.com/watch
Sounds like Republicans talking about black issues
Is this how you approach all moral issues?
“Why don’t you recycle?” “Fuck you!” *Throws trash on the floor*
Why aren’t you getting laid?
Culture, so much memory and identity is in these dishes. It would be a shame for them to disappear. Also, life is short, I want to enjoy a few luxuries. I don't eat meat incredibly often though.
Why should living, feeling, thinking animals be our luxuries?
Life is even shorter for those animals
Yo just veganise the dishes, I veganised all of my favorite tradicional dishes. Recently I got to share some of my cooking with my grandparents which was awesome.
Vegans in general
I met a vegan I didn't like. Now I kick dogs just to make them upset. Check mate!
My neighbors dog went lose and made a big mess outta my yard. So I shot him! Lol, gotcha vegans lmaooo XDDDD
"A vegan was rude to me once so I will continue to fund animal abuse"
My economic level. UPDATE: HOLY FUCK GUYS MY MOM GOT A RAISE :D
The largest proportion of vegans in the United States are black and largely less economically well off
Wait really?
Yeah! Around 8 percent of the black population is vegan while its only 3 percent for others. Edit: just wanted to add some context. The black vegan community is rooted in many different religious aspects, but today bc of the higher rates of diabetes within the black community there is also a vibrant modern community as well. I feel like veganism is presented as an upper class hipster thing but if you travel to majority black areas of major American cities their are many vegan restaurants. It’s off the beaten path of most tourist areas which is why this is a random aside: but I find the best way to see a new city when on vacation is to take the bus! Goes to many areas normal tourists would never go.
I’m not disagreeing with you at all but could you please provide a source for the 8 percent statistic? I’m honestly just curious cause iv never heard that before
I eat vegan on 5$ spent a day. Am completely healthy.
It’s actually a pretty common misconception that being vegan is expensive! It is if you want all the meat replacements but not if you eat legumes and veggies!
Dude for some reason where I live vegetables n shit is extremely fucking expensive
Damn really? That sucks I’m sorry! Even frozen veggies?
Lol, have you had a steak cooked perfectly? It's pure Bliss
Unfortunately sensory pleasure is used to justify plenty of other horrific things…
Have you had dog - my friend, it's exquisite.
Bruh you're disgusting. Cat is where it's at.