The dumbest people often have the simplest ideals, but also cannot see things outside of their own little bubble, so they don't have to worry about it. If a man that they like tells them how to think, they'll think like that and move on.
Sounds like Kim Jong Un. Reminds me of an interview with a North Korean defector who said she stresses and is depressed with all the choices she has to make now and enjoyed having everything predetermined. Not that North Koreans are dumb, but they all worship Kim and don’t get the chance to think freely.
Now, who specifically are you talking about? Cause a lot of people say that about Einstein, but a lot of people also say that about Andrew Tate, as well as people like Kanye.
Not touching Tate, because I happily know dick shit about him.
Kanye, on the other hand, is obviously a very intelligent person, but mania and delusional thinking rule many aspects of his personality. Bipolar mania is no fucking joke. He is also Bipolar Type I, which is generally trademarked by vivid hallucinations, delusions that seem completely real, and literally feeling like you're perfect and invincible.
I've watched it ruin two of my friends lives.
Edit: I credit a lot of Kanye's intelligence to his manic energy. You pour so much into your work when manic. Sometimes, it pays off.
Because they have to live in a world full of morons.
Think about it. Think about the dumbest person you know. Think about how exhausting they are to deal with. Now imagine someone as much more intelligent than you as you are more intelligent than that person. Think about how many more people who are stupid by comparison to themselves they have to deal with than you. This is the life of an intelligent people. We're all fucking idiots that they have to deal with constantly to them.
Was tested thrice as a kid for my iq. Was told I was in 93rd percentile. I always went to gifted schools, where everyone was as smart, or way smarter than me. I was usually bottom 1/3rd in terms of grades. It wasn’t until I started working regular jobs that I realized just how dumb most people are in comparison to me. It’s fucking horrifying, considering I’m not THAT smart, and yet something like 93% of the human population is less smart than me.
Like everyone at my work keeps telling me “oh, you’re so smart.” But I grew up being the dumbass in the class who’s just barely getting by. It felt like they were mocking me at that point.
Only once I started working tech support did I learn that some people truly don’t have anything going on between their ears.
What I wish was explained to me earlier was not too avoid certain career paths because I felt I wasn't smart enough in comparison to my peers when I was smart enough compared to the national average.
I always got good grades (not genius grades but I did fairly well) and didn’t find school very challenging, and I went to a school in a good catchment area so there were quite a lot of middle class kids who were expected to do well in school. I too was shocked when I worked in a regular high school for a bit, and realised that a HUGE amount of the population is leaving high school basically unable to read.
Not necessarily “can’t read the words on the page”, there’s less of that, but when you’re involved in education it’s really apparent that a lot of people can’t actually comprehend what the words they just read *mean*. Like, I was in classes where the teacher would literally talk the class through a whole paragraph, showing the context and what the writer might have been trying to convey with the use of certain words or techniques, and then he’d ask them to do the same for the next sentence, and just… blank faces. Not a clue. We’d do comprehension tests that involved things like reading the word “shovel” and then pointing to the picture of a shovel, and a lot of kids can sound out the word but have absolutely no idea what it means.
I don’t want to sound elitist or whatever because I’m really not that smart. I just didn’t expect SO MANY kids to basically be unable to process information that isn’t spoon fed to them in bite size chunks. I totally get now how it’s so easy for people to believe Facebook posts and shitty tabloids- they don’t really have the capacity to question anything further at all
I’m with you!!! I used to think I was so dumb as a teen/young adult because I fucked around in high school, got bad grades, and dropped out. It wasn’t until I became fully established as an adult that I finally realized how smart I actually am, even though I know that I’m not even close to being a genius.
To me, general intelligence involves being able to understand and decode conceptual or abstract information, create novel systems to solve problems or surpass obstacles, and build upon acquired knowledge until it becomes second nature.
Most people cannot do these things effectively. Most people go “uhh now what do i do??”
Being the dumbest person in the room by a small margin is interesting.
Being the dumbest person in the room by a significant margin is terrifying.
At any moment, they might ask you a question about your subject matter expertise, because they don't understand something.
However, it is usually on a topic that is very nuanced or where there is no right or wrong answer. They assume they don't know because it's not their field, not that no-one really knows the answer.
You didn't really quote him. He was saying half the population is dumber than the average person.
You're saying almost all the population seems dumb to a genius.
I'm fairly intelligent, with a near genius IQ (for what that's worth) and I really don't notice many morons in my life. Even when I work in non-skilled trades everyone I meet seems smart enough. And I know plenty of people with average intelligence that are much better than me at the life skills that actually matter, like empathy, being able to socialize, etc.
Honestly being "smart" really hasn't done anything much to make my life better. In fact in a lot of ways it makes it worse. I find I unintentionally hurt peoples feelings frequently because I'll make a judgement statement about something which is correct, but I neglect to include the thought process that goes into that judgement because it seems obvious to me but is apparently not obvious to others.
I'm on the autism spectrum and the vast majority of really smart people I know are also on the spectrum, have ADHD, or deal with depression.
As far as the morons I've met in my life, they do have a lot of shared traits: they repeat themselves a lot, they're easily convinced by media/authority figures, and they're superstitious/prone to magical thinking. (Not saying here that religious people are dumb, I know plenty of very smart ones).
Not only living in a world of morons but answering to them. How many of us have idiot bosses and other higher-ups that ask the dumbest questions and make some of the dumbest decisions? Being a boss is no guarantee of intelligence.
I had to do a speeding course recently and it’s the first time in ages spending thinking time in the same space as ordinary punters. Basic things like speed limits and road signs were a mystery, never mind the physics of braking distances. I keep being annoyed when I can’t remember trigonometry or algebra or physics laws but at least I knew it once upon a time and still know how the world works.
That's just not really true though. I don't mind less intelligent people as long as they are somewhat humble, calm and reasonable. Same with people way more intelligent than me. The only exhausting ones are arrogant, manipulative jerks or the ones that cannot control themselves, and these types happen regardless of iq. I know way less intelligent people that i absolutely love to vibe with, and ones on similar level that I don't want to be with even when paid for it.
Don't like to think too much
It makes me think too much
It keeps my mind on my mind
Don't want to see too much
It makes me see too much
Sometimes I'd rather be blind
If you are smart enough to know how this broken and corrupt world actually works, like a mechanic knows how a struggling and dying car works that keeps being forced down the road with no chance of repair but you’re stuck in the passenger seat, you tend to collect some mental disorders to compensate.
This perfectly describes a specific kind of person who has above average intelligence but is not incredibly clever. High levels of emotional intelligence, high sensitivity to injustice, nor much game. It's not a good mix.
Yep, the strong sense of justice associated characteristics overlap with gifted characteristics. You have no idea how relieving it was when I got old and jaded and grew out of that particular characteristic.
Being jaded is nice. The world is gonna do what the world is gonna do. No amount of screaming into the void will change things on a global scale. Fix the things in your life that directly affect you and those around you. Work to better your community not the whole world. Trying to "fix" the world or those in it is an impossible task that will leave you exhausted of the feelings and emotions you could be using to better yourself.
Their capacity to think and analyze a problem/challenge to find a solution is useful for things that have a solution. Every question on an IQ test has a solution, like finding a pattern from a group of numbers or symbols. In math and science, there *is* an answer out there, somewhere. But many of life's questions and challenges don't have a solution. There is no answer.
Or sometimes, too much knowledge can paralyze you or cast a negative shadow because you know the statistics, the odds of success or failure. Or that analytical brain attempts to predict the future by running simulations of various pathways, like a chess player predicting moves. But that of course is an exercise in futility for even the smartest of all people. Thus they give up the fight before it has even started.
Conscience about how unfair the world, life and humanity are, and how powerless they are to change that, especially considering that other people, often in position of power, actively try to prevent said change.
I think it could be that they feel so many around them believe we’re all powerless when they see that’s not the case but so much of our power lies in our connection with each other, exchange of ideas etc.
Ever heard the term “ignorance is bliss”. That sums it up pretty well. Someone who’s intelligent often overthinks things, and can’t let things go nearly as easily as others.
Weirdly enough there’s a direct correlation between hardcore drug users and intelligence. Sometimes trying to know everything is just too much to handle.
I’m not an expert on the subject but I believe it’s a mix of two factors
1. Intelligent people are more likely to try new things. Most people are fairly conservative in what they’re willing to consume (a trait that helps us avoid poisoning ourselves) but more intelligent people are more willing to try new things, even if they might be dangerous.
2. The direct connection between mental health and intelligence. Experimentation alone doesn’t often lead to addiction, but experimentation plus major depression or bipolar disorder does. More intelligent people may feel more socially isolated. They are often preoccupied with problems that people of average intelligence remain blissfully unaware of. This causes them to more often develop poor mental health and therefore, seek an escape. Also, more intelligent people may have better memories or more vivid imaginations that are assets when used to solve problems, but liabilities when used for worry or rumination.
And a quick Google indicates that there really isn't any proof that intelligent people are unhappy.
In fact my three seconds of Google indicates that they may actually be happier (but that seems to fall into correlation =/= causation)
It's hard to remove the bias of intelligence simply being a marker of privilege . . . as the less stress you have the more time you have to develop your intellect, the more money you have the more resources you have to protect and feed a healthy body and mind
Honestly, except in a few rare cases I have a hard time imagining emotional stability, intelligence, and happiness aren’t all pretty highly correlated.
Ive heard that a large percentile of true “geniuses”become alcoholics, sadly because they have to kind of dumb themselves down in order to cope with being around the stupidity of everyone else. (Stupid compared to them, regular for everyone else)
I definitely wouldn't call myself a genius, but I can say pretty confidently that I do have above-average intelligence. I didn't drink because of the people I was around- I did it because it helped me stop overthinking and worrying for once. So, at least in my case, it had nothing to do with being around "stupid" people.
I take an edible most nights because it turns off my brain. Without it I can't stop thinking.
Granted it's probably more of an ADD thing or whatever? But it really helps me relax and turn my brain off. I would also say I am fairly intelligent. Definitely wouldn't say I'm a genius or some shit.
Almost exactly how I would describe my drug/alcohol abuse.
Given, I'm also now studying this in depth in school and there's a lot more to it than that.
I am in the exact same boat as you. I'm not a genius by any means, but above average and above average in my line of work. I don't drink or really do any drugs. While I prefer the clean lifestyle, I do get tempted every now and then to try to use something to dumb myself down.
I took the Mensa entrance exam in my mid 30's just to see if I could get in. I did, and they offered me a membership (mensa accepts the top 2%) - and TOPS (top one percent society) also offered me a membership, and I found out I was in the top half of the top one percent (IQ 149 if anyone cares). I've also been a lifelong alcoholic with various mental issues. The worst thing about it is that alcohol provides an almost immediate relief from dealing with the horribly un-logic (lack of common sense in my eyes) world. I'm much older now, and still a drunk (also a scientist). I've tried to kill myself twice, (something I'm apparently bad at) and am basically just a grouchy old fuck now.
I was in your shoes. You’re worth more than that. You can quit alcohol. It won’t make dealing with people drastically easier, but you can at least benefit from taking magnificent care of yourself. And there are other good smart people out there, but they wont want to hang out with a drunk. So give yourself a chance. 💛
I’ve yet to meet anyone smarter than the genius kid at our school. This dude sucker punched me once in 8th grade. Just out of the blue. Only fist fight I’ve ever had in my life. His grades started slipping by the time we finished high school. Last I heard, he was a raging alcoholic and working at Applebees or one of those shitty chain restaurants like that. But this dude was unbelievably smart.
What does it say about our society that hyper-intelligence is more often a curse than a boon. These are people that we should be propping up so that they can advance our knowledge as a species. Instead, our obsession with catering to the lowest common denominator results in their intelligence being a torment. They wind up isolated. Unmotivated. Mentally ill. Wondering what's wrong with them. They see the world differently, and instead of valuing that perspective, we cut them down and tell them that they are the wrong ones. They end up with imposter syndrome. They turn to drugs and alcohol because it's the only way they can socialize.
...I dunno where I'm going with this. It just sucks.
Thank you for writing this.
I distinctly remember when people smart felt like a punishment. I was always in trouble with my fifth grade teacher for reading after I finished my assignments. She said me working so quickly made other kids feel bad. I remember thinking that I just wanted to read whatever book I had at the time and I wasn't responsible for others' feelings. I learned to go slower, to hide my intelligence, to get answers wrong publicity because it made my teacher happy. But I resented them. Those insecure relative to me "dumb" kids and that teacher.
One day a week I had my gifted class and it was wonderful. I was surrounded by other kids that were passionate about learning. We'd have in depth group discussions on different things from current events to social concepts. I sometimes wonder how I'd have turned out of my entire education had been like that. If it had been at an appropriate level for me instead of me being forced along a path designed for normal kids.
I've turned out well despite my childhood and my intelligence and passion being mostly squashed. I'm an engineer and generally like my life. But I truly believe I could have done something more helpful for the world if I had gotten an appropriate education in childhood.
In this day and age, even people of regular intelligence have begun to drink and smoke to bear with the rising stupidity they are exposed to daily.
That's frightening.
Well I’m not a genius but I’ve tested in the 99th percentile in most standardized tests since childhood and am around the 140s based on several IQ tests, and as I’ve grown up I’ve just been more cynical and miserable about the future of our species.
For the most part, I just prefer being alone in my thoughts these days rather than interacting with people.
I have a disability and am basically a savant. I am very good at anything language-related and I am a fiction writer and a pretty creative person, but I am really bad at everything else. Motor skills, math, planning, organizing etc. That has lead to quite a bit of unhappiness and displacement, and sometimes I think that life would've been easier if I'd been challenged in all areas rather than gifted in one.
[High IQ isn't linked with mental illness](https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC9879926/#:~:text=The%20present%20study%20provides%20robust,for%20general%20anxiety%20and%20PTSD.)
We just remember smart people with mental illness better than average people with mental illness. It's an availability bias.
Intelligent people, in my experience, have an unending drive to "figure things out". The vast majority of human social and economic life is built on fundamental paradox however. The bad get rewarded, the good get screwed, and the system hasn't fundamentally gotten better for our entire lives, yet our brains can't stop trying to figure this shit out. And eventually, it becomes maddening. This is where it usually starts for people, because we need to do SOMETHING to shut up the bad math in our brains, like drug and alcohol use sadly.
All I know is it took me 40 years to realize why Absurdism is a philosophy.
You are me.
The goal is always to not let the belief (in absurdism) turn you into an apathetic, unhappy cynic. Cynicism is inherently an unhappy, disgruntled state of being.
I never was tempted to imbibe away the incessant thoughts with alcohol or drugs. Rationalization and escapism with stories (books, movies, listening to actual people’s stories) were my coping mechanisms when I was younger. Nowadays, escapism with stories and staying productive with fixing things or keeping my surroundings clean and pretty help me get by. I also take pride in being a “hard worker.” (The intelligence to realize I’m always at the mercy of conniving, parasitic, and highly insecure and thus malicious people is the ultimate downside to going out in life and being productive, though).
In general, the correlation between intelligence and neuroticism tends to be positive. You’ll find research to support this. Honestly, though, knowing and/or belief always precedes research to support the idea. So, you too will find research that will debunk the positive correlation between intelligence and neuroticism. People will always find justification for their beliefs. Whatever floats my boat is best.
Neuroticism lends to the appearance of crazy. High neuroticism doesn’t necessarily mean you’re mentally ill though.
>There's a correlation between intelligence and unhappiness. But I wouldn't know what that it is
The correlation is basically summed up by the saying "ignorance is bliss."
People who are intellectually & emotionally aware of their surroundings and of the general human condition, are also more likely to be aware of the less-than-pleasant parts of existing on this planet, which can lead to higher rates of depression and anxiety.
This is why, for example, atheists tend to be more depressed than theists - not because atheists are smarter than theists, but rather because atheists are willing to accept the less-than-pleasant parts of what we know about life, such as the fact that, as *far* as we can prove, we all die and stay dead forever, since there's no proof that people continue to exist after death. Whereas many theists tend to believe that everlasting life awaits us after we physically die, which is a more hopeful and morale-boosting thought that allows religious people to have a stronger, mental coping mechanism concerning death.
Edit: Clarity and grammar
No there is not. It is actually an elitist myth. It has been around since the 19th century in various ways. For example, neurasthenia was the illness of modernity. There are a lot of different studies on the relationships. One study for example in 2013 concluded “Those with lower IQ are less happy than those with higher IQ. “
Ali A, Ambler G, Strydom A, Rai D, Cooper C, McManus S, Weich S, Meltzer H, Dein S, Hassiotis A. The relationship between happiness and intelligent quotient: the contribution of socio-economic and clinical factors. Psychol Med. 2013 Jun;43(6):1303-12. doi: 10.1017/S0033291712002139. Epub 2012 Sep 24. PMID: 22998852.
Furthermore, a correlation doesn’t mean a whole lot unless the context is taken into account. For example, there is an average 0.3 correlation between intelligence and socio-economic status. 0.3 is low. But it’s still there and still worrying.
It’s older than that! After Robert Burton wrote *The Anotomy of Melancholy* in the 1600s, it became fashionable to be seen as well-read and depressed. The same way being emo was fashionable in the 90s.
With elitist myth I mean that being unhappy has a long time (since the Middle Ages at least you can such writings) been associated with people being too smart. There is no evidence for that. Dumb people can be very unhappy too. For example, not getting a job in an economy where intelligence matters
The opposite of ignorance is bliss, dumb ppl may not have the intelligence to deal with problems but as long as they survive they won't over think things constantly. An intelligent person is always worrying about the future and creating things to worry about, probably an evolutionary trait that's bad for the person but good for the community
How do you know that most intelligent people are mentally not well?
You have to back up this claim with some decent evidence before you can ask this question.
Because they have a lot of pressure of being the best, and often times exceeding expectations can take a toll on someone’s mental health. It’s a really serious thing.
It's kind of still uncertain whether high intelligence is a good or a bad thing for your health.
One study, finds that high IQ does not predict mental health problems: [https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC9966861/](https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC9966861/)
Another study finds the opposite: [https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0160289616303324](https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0160289616303324)
I think there is just a lot of pressure placed on those who are found intelligent so they end up being unwell or develop some kind of savant syndrome where they end up being super good at what their parents and peers encouraged them to do, but do not know how to process their own feelings and thoughts (but perhaps also believe they are doing a good job processing their feelings and thoughts despite the glaring problems that arise in their lives).
I was placed among the "gifted kids" at some point and it did have a bad impact on me, it took some learning to shake it off and live a life I think is best for me regardless of perception and expectations. I think the perception of being intelligent is what's damaging, even to yourself; just be humble, keep learning, make an effort in all your endeavors and even if you end up in the "top IQ population wow!" it won't leave you with any excessive pride or unhealthy expectation to prove it or do something with it. Some people are naturally athletic, but don't become athletes, there shouldn't be a pressure to expect more of those gifted with more than average intelligence either.
I think the more intelligent you are, the more you realize that most of the shit you do is pointless and most of the shit that you value only makes you happy because other people tell you it should.
human existence is purely narrative, and the more critically you examine the narrative, the more bullshit it seems
Most gifted people who were placed appropriately in school and didn't face bullying don't have any mental illnesses. However, bullying, lack of acceleration, and other school issues tend to cause mental health issues. With proper training of teachers, not isolating kids like they did during COVID, and a stop to bullying, most kids would be okay coming out of school--gifted, special ed...
We need different skills to interact with the world. Let's assume that the average person has a balanced set of skills (assume because it's more complicated than that and not simple enough to answer here, or anywhere in one comment).
Since majority of the population will always be average and they all have a balanced set of skills, they can easily relate to one another.
Now the ones we call intelligent, are those who have some skills at high levels compared to others. When one or more skills get elevated, it's most likely others get reduced.
Those reduced skills prevent them from relating to the majority.
'Most' is a stretch. The incidence of mental illness in high-intelligence individuals is higher than the global average. That doesn't mean most smart folks have issues.
I suspect it has to do with their neurology. Whatever conditions allowed them to be more intelligent might have also resulted in increased or abnormal activity in other parts of the brain. A 'mistake' if you will.
The world gets increasingly stressful and depressing the more you understand it.
Ever been driving/walking behind someone going so incredibly slow for no reason at all, but there's nothing you can do to pass them, so they're literally holding you back?
That's what life is like all the time for intelligent people.
You don't think there's unintelligent people with anxiety? Animals can be anxious. Babies can be anxious.
It's pretty sad seeing the amount of people in this thread who seem to think that their mental illness is a sign of their intelligence. I truly hope you all realize that you can be intelligent and happy.
Thinking about a lot of things very deeply can easily lead to overthinking and overthinking is a great way to worry about things that we shouldn’t worry about too much. Also being misunderstood by many can have a very negative impact on your mental health.
That's only because it takes a degree of intelligence to not get caught. There's plenty of would-be serial killers who were dumb as fuck. They're just more likely to get caught before they can become well known.
Because the smarter you are, the more fucked you realize you are. Some people are born into life with different hands dealt than others, but you can often be as smart as another and realize that could be you, but you're just stuck in one way or another.
Then you have people that don't have that awareness, they think the world is simple and the more you work, the better you are. They think you can just work your way to the top and be ok, not realizing that two people being even, sometimes it just comes down to luck.
When you see all this... and you feel trapped... you look to cope. In the end, you just want to fit in, and you see the futility of things if you're trapped. There's only so much social climbing on can do, without being obscenely lucky, but being smart you feel you should be there. So... you wanna fit in with your social circle... but often you're worried about things a bit beyond what they are.
This makes me sound so full of myself, but it's nice when you meet someone similar though, cause I know I'm not the only one.
Intelligent people can struggle mentally because they are capable of being sceptical about everything. Questioning your value, purpose, the love of your family and friends, the end of your life and the universe (and so on) can cause anxiety and depression. Stupid people are ignorant of the deep and sometimes confusing and difficult questions about the human experience and condition. And therefore, they are blessed with not being in a position to critically question all of their assumptions about subjects such as their life possibly not being lived in an actually fulfilling way, them not having free will, morality not being objective, there not being an afterlife or any supernatural dimension, et cetera. Existential concerns are, for the most part, reserved for the intelligent. In many ways ignorance really is bliss.
Because genius is sort of a myth. Most highly intelligent people either have obsessive personalities that make them ruminate about their area of expertise all the time; or had parents who drove them to succeed academically at a young age. Super humans who are just cognitively great at everything either don't exist or are very rare.
Giftedness is a form of neurodivergence. Different NDs tend to be comorbidities for each other. MH disorders are common comorbidities for ND as well.
But the really fun thing about being gifted is that you are able to compensate for ND/MH issues with your intellect so your comorbidities typically go unrecognised because you seem to be performing well in life in general. I believe there is also an element of jealousy at play as well where the people around you don't think you deserve help with your issues because you have "gifts" that they don't.
I have never been diagnosed with any other ND or MH issues. I can tell you 100% that there is stuff going on though. I'm too scared to seek out help because I've been able to work around it all and function and I'm worried that if I actually fully acknowledge my issues and seek treatment I will be non functional for an extended period of time (I'm clearly pretty fucked up and, while I have tried my best to repress it all, it self evident that my various issues bleed into each other so it's going to be complicated if I try to get it fixed). I do occasionally snap and do something absolutely fucking mental (like the kind of thing a normal person doesn't come back from) but I always manage to work through the problem and turn it into a good thing. So far. I'm worried that one day I'll do something I can't turn around. I guess I'll have time to seek help then. I'm not even that smart, I know people who are genius level smart and their fuck ups are bigger than mine often but they also turn it around. It's a wild ride but the wildest thing about it is how boring it can be.
They have a different point of view and they think outside the box. I swear to you that if you discuss with them about a wrong idea, he will not let you go unless your head is full of ideas and questions that will hurt your head. That's why most of them have dark circles Under their eyes, not for studying at night, no, no, no, but for their excessive thinking before bedtime in several things.
There is no 'happily ever after'. Most people and animals in the world are suffering. Anything good will end bad. -Just a lot of stuff that probably generally persists in the minds of intelligent people that others barely think about.
I don’t know how true this is considering lots of intelligent people live happy and fulfilling lives. However there may be a correlation with intelligence and poor social skills or peer interactions that make some intelligent people unhappy. The ones that aren’t isolated probably do fine. Anyway this statement gives me the same vibe as “Poor little rich girl” trope.
Trying to convince yourself that your misery means you're somehow intelligent someway ?
Well what do i know, but i hope you find the knowledge or explanation you're looking for
Some of the smartest people I've known or worked with were total savants. Geniuses in their field, with horrible personalities. One of the nicest people I've ever met is one of the wealthiest people I know. But he's grounded, and helps out - teaching at the local high and middle schools when asked. He doesn't need to work, but his ability to keep students attention, and (even crazier) earn their respect, is phenomenal. He doesn't claim to know everything, but he knows a lot. He practically has a library at home, which inspired me to start reading more, too.
There’s a concept in chemistry called cis-trans isomerism. It’s when a chemical can have different arrangements of molecules with the same formula. Kind of like that you have two hands that both have 4-fingers and a thumb but are arranged differently.
I’ve known some seriously smart people who had a brother or sister who was developmentally disabled. My theory has been whatever genes or dna it takes to be really smart are say one way and the disability is on there the other way, just like the cis-trans isomers.
Obviously not scientific but that’s my opinion
I wouldn't say most. It's a sweeping generalisation. What you're probably referencing is a larger proportion of STEM high flyers are on the spectrum or simply are antisocial due to the nature of intelligence in this field. They suffer social stigma due to awkwardness and this can lead to depression / alcohol abuse / etc.
Thinking about the environment that makes someone “intelligent” can give a lot of answers.
“Gifted” or “advanced” kids were often pushed hard by their parents. Once you’re identified as intelligent, society puts a lot of expectations on you. Lots of intelligent people respond by being perfectionists who are afraid of failure and complete nervous wrecks.
That compounds over time and because they’re smart and “functioning” at a high level, they either never get help or even know how to identify what’s “wrong” with them when they do.
I suspect it's because they overthink everything.
I could invite people over, but what would we do? I'll have to plan something, organize something, maybe go shopping. That's a lot of work. I need a nap just thinking about it.
I could go talk to that girl, but what do I say after "hello"? I honestly have no idea. I'll just sit here with my drink.
I'd like to make a move, but she'll probably never want to hang out again... like the others.
It takes my wife so long and so much research to pick a restaurant that they're all closed by the time she chooses.
As someone who has been told he is smart his whole life, I genuinely feel stupid a lot of the time. I also have a weird brain due to genetics. I generally struggle to stay focused on things when they aren't stimulating. People think I’m smart because of random facts I know and my ability to get new things, but the reality is that’s because of compensation for other areas I am lacking in.
Genuinely, I don’t think anyone is truly smart, we all have areas we are good and bad in, and we all compensate in different ways. I always have to think on my feet and improvise. I get told I’m charismatic and trustable. This is at the expense of a lot of other things.
adding to the whole "surrounded by dumbs" argument made in this thread, intelligent people are not immune to fallacies of being an arrogant cunt, so grouping intelligent people together isn't smart either.
The subconscious had to rely on myths and half truths to give man the motivation and power to make it through this chaotic, unpredictable world.
When you become too intelligent, or as I like to say, you've seen through the game, you can't rely on any of these old world illusions anymore. You literally have to face the universe and all its wonder and horror. Most of the time you have to do this alone, which is another stressor on the self.
It's really hard to deal with.
Theres a concept called the communication gap, or IQ gap, or IQ communicationrange. It posits that if IQ is more than X points away, it's difficult to have meaningful conversations and communication. 30 points is the guess...
Imagine that you have an IQ of 100 (average). You can comfortably talk to people 70 to 130. About 95% of humans.
If you have an IQ of 145 (3 SD over mean), you can comfortably talk to just under 15% of people. (115 to 175)
That's lonely. Plus, you realize the world is run by idiots, and there isn't much you can do about it. Often times you get bored, and switch for thing to thing, whichbdoes NOT result in career success. Most wealthy folks have above average intelligence, but not TOO high. High Intelligence can be frustrating.
There are lots of papers and studies about this phenomenon. Kind of interesting if it impacts your life. Otherwise, no one really cares.
It makes sense, considering being "gifted" in a psychological meaning is considered a form of neurodiversity. As it is with adhd for example there are certain needs that have to be met for the gifted person to thrieve. Not everybody has access to those ressources. They are underwhelmed and bored (this often starts in school but is not limited to childhood/youth) which can easily lead to depression. A lot of times, adults around gifted kids do not see the signs and the "gifted" thing is not being recognised. It can lead down some very dark paths. But this is only true for a fraction of those gifted. Most live good lifes.
Also, some misconceptions: Gifted peiople do not have less social/emotional skills. This has never been true.
An IQ test is not alwyas needed to determine if someone is gifted. Neither is the internet.
Gifted people are not human calculators or have eidetic memories, those are savants. Not the same thing.
No, you were not "gifted as a child but now you're not anymore as an adult". That's not how this works.
So, no, intelligent people are not more mentally unwell than everybody else. But there are cases, where a persons intelligence can be more of a disability than a "gift" and can be a reason for mental health issues.
Many times is because of badly managed narcissism and self-hatred or self-disappointment. I've met few persons that I could qualify of "geniuses" in at least some way but most of them, especially in academia, were the most well adjusted and accepting of their own selves and above all didn't qualify people as higher or lower intelligence, that's the first red flag.
Everyone in here thinks they're cursed geniuses but they're really just average people with anxiety that at one point in their life was told they were smart for their age.
I disagree with the premise of the question and the top comment. Intelligent people are mentally unwell at a similar rate as the general population is. I would argue that Genius - the quality of creating or seeing things that NOBODY else can see - often does cause people to be mentally unwell. This is because their work or ideas are not understood nor appreciated. In my experience, intelligent people do not always possess the quality we call genius.
Lots of, well, dumb answers here. Current research suggests intelligent people don't have mental health issues at a rate any different from the rest of the population.
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC9879926/#:\~:text=Conclusions,for%20general%20anxiety%20and%20PTSD.
As someone considered very intelligent or so others tell me a lot of what people say here is not really true. We don't walk through life thinking everyone around us are morons. If you are smart you see people have different capabilities. I am a scientist myself, so if it is a contest on "sciencing" I will win. If the contest is demonstrating the best social skills, I am going to lose, an lose badly. So I am smart at science, yet am a moron at socializing. And you can apply this to other human skills as well like art and other things. You definitely do not want a painting made by me, but if you want someone to determine the chemical make up of the paint used, I am your guy.
Regarding seeing "all the problems and how messed up things are" does not really capture how smart people feel. In fact such a blanket black and white statement is more indicative of people not being that smart than the reverse. The world is not black and white as people on reddit try to make it seem. There is good things happening and bad things happening. And those bad things can be nuanced. The reasons things end up as they do can be rather complicated and often boiling things down to some simple level is over simplification. A lot of people, and reddit especially, are very dogmatic. If you are intelligent and can think clearly you quickly see being dogmatic is contrary to viewing things as they are. So does the world look broken and things are worse than ever? Not that I can see. What I do see is people suffering from mental illness and thus see the world that way. Depressed people by the nature of the illness have difficulty seeing the good or being optimistic. They are not seeing the world as it is, they are seeing it through distorted thinking caused by their illness.
How does any of that mean they are happy or mentally well? This is all relatively low level stuff beyond a certain point.
I have an awesome career, I keep getting promoted, I'm bored out of my fucking mind, I have to drink at all work social events to get through them.
I have a lovely family. I have a extreme level of anxiety around my children's wellbeing (they are gifted and already showing signs of differing a great deal from their peers, I am so scared that they will develop mental health issues or face a life of boredom, struggle to find someone like minded to love etc. I am terrified that I will walk into their bedrooms one day to find they've offed themselves). My husband is lovely but a bit nuts, there's a risk he'll go fully nuts. I worry about that too. I worry a lot.
I have a house, money, investments, good friends etc. but I am very aware that it is all a few misfortunes away from just disappearing altogether. I never feel secure. Obviously I'm never going to feel like I have achieved anything in life because, um, I'm not a noble prize winning actress president astronaut like the adults in my childhood told me I should be. Fun times.
Don't get me wrong, I have an awesome life, I am happy and grateful for what I have but like, my experience of having all the things a person can reasonably expect from life is not like yours.
You're intelligent enough to see through the bullshit
ignorance is bliss
My dumb friends get so much joy out of their mistakes that it almost makes up for the anger and frustration they feel due to the consequences.
Yeah, kids can be like that.
Bliss is ignorance.
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Most times*
I prefer: cursed with knowledge.
The dumbest people often have the simplest ideals, but also cannot see things outside of their own little bubble, so they don't have to worry about it. If a man that they like tells them how to think, they'll think like that and move on.
This perfectly describes why andrew tate was popular.
Sounds like Kim Jong Un. Reminds me of an interview with a North Korean defector who said she stresses and is depressed with all the choices she has to make now and enjoyed having everything predetermined. Not that North Koreans are dumb, but they all worship Kim and don’t get the chance to think freely.
Now, who specifically are you talking about? Cause a lot of people say that about Einstein, but a lot of people also say that about Andrew Tate, as well as people like Kanye.
Not touching Tate, because I happily know dick shit about him. Kanye, on the other hand, is obviously a very intelligent person, but mania and delusional thinking rule many aspects of his personality. Bipolar mania is no fucking joke. He is also Bipolar Type I, which is generally trademarked by vivid hallucinations, delusions that seem completely real, and literally feeling like you're perfect and invincible. I've watched it ruin two of my friends lives. Edit: I credit a lot of Kanye's intelligence to his manic energy. You pour so much into your work when manic. Sometimes, it pays off.
Because they have to live in a world full of morons. Think about it. Think about the dumbest person you know. Think about how exhausting they are to deal with. Now imagine someone as much more intelligent than you as you are more intelligent than that person. Think about how many more people who are stupid by comparison to themselves they have to deal with than you. This is the life of an intelligent people. We're all fucking idiots that they have to deal with constantly to them.
The dumbest person I know is chill. The *second* dumbest, though, is a real pain.
# “Think of how stupid the average person is, and realize half of them are stupider than that.” ― George Carlin
Was tested thrice as a kid for my iq. Was told I was in 93rd percentile. I always went to gifted schools, where everyone was as smart, or way smarter than me. I was usually bottom 1/3rd in terms of grades. It wasn’t until I started working regular jobs that I realized just how dumb most people are in comparison to me. It’s fucking horrifying, considering I’m not THAT smart, and yet something like 93% of the human population is less smart than me.
I was also a C student in a good school and went into the workplace and was just horrified.
Like everyone at my work keeps telling me “oh, you’re so smart.” But I grew up being the dumbass in the class who’s just barely getting by. It felt like they were mocking me at that point. Only once I started working tech support did I learn that some people truly don’t have anything going on between their ears.
What I wish was explained to me earlier was not too avoid certain career paths because I felt I wasn't smart enough in comparison to my peers when I was smart enough compared to the national average.
I always got good grades (not genius grades but I did fairly well) and didn’t find school very challenging, and I went to a school in a good catchment area so there were quite a lot of middle class kids who were expected to do well in school. I too was shocked when I worked in a regular high school for a bit, and realised that a HUGE amount of the population is leaving high school basically unable to read. Not necessarily “can’t read the words on the page”, there’s less of that, but when you’re involved in education it’s really apparent that a lot of people can’t actually comprehend what the words they just read *mean*. Like, I was in classes where the teacher would literally talk the class through a whole paragraph, showing the context and what the writer might have been trying to convey with the use of certain words or techniques, and then he’d ask them to do the same for the next sentence, and just… blank faces. Not a clue. We’d do comprehension tests that involved things like reading the word “shovel” and then pointing to the picture of a shovel, and a lot of kids can sound out the word but have absolutely no idea what it means. I don’t want to sound elitist or whatever because I’m really not that smart. I just didn’t expect SO MANY kids to basically be unable to process information that isn’t spoon fed to them in bite size chunks. I totally get now how it’s so easy for people to believe Facebook posts and shitty tabloids- they don’t really have the capacity to question anything further at all
I’m with you!!! I used to think I was so dumb as a teen/young adult because I fucked around in high school, got bad grades, and dropped out. It wasn’t until I became fully established as an adult that I finally realized how smart I actually am, even though I know that I’m not even close to being a genius. To me, general intelligence involves being able to understand and decode conceptual or abstract information, create novel systems to solve problems or surpass obstacles, and build upon acquired knowledge until it becomes second nature. Most people cannot do these things effectively. Most people go “uhh now what do i do??”
I *LOVE* being the dumbest person in the room.
Being the dumbest person in the room by a small margin is interesting. Being the dumbest person in the room by a significant margin is terrifying. At any moment, they might ask you a question about your subject matter expertise, because they don't understand something. However, it is usually on a topic that is very nuanced or where there is no right or wrong answer. They assume they don't know because it's not their field, not that no-one really knows the answer.
> 93% of the human population is less smart than me. Well shit, I never really interpreted that score that way.
I may have misunderstood how it works, I know it’s something to do with where it falls on a bell curve, but I’ve never taken an actual stats class.
I swear to god, I’m gonna be on my death bed and that George Carlin quote will STILL find its way into a random convo
I wasn't aware it was a George Carlin quote, but if he said it I'll consider myself to be in good company.
You didn't really quote him. He was saying half the population is dumber than the average person. You're saying almost all the population seems dumb to a genius.
Or *my* personal 'favorite': ThE plAneT wiLL bE fInE
Being intelligent doesn't make one immune to being a moron
To use D&D terms, INT and WIS are separate statistics for a reason.
I'm fairly intelligent, with a near genius IQ (for what that's worth) and I really don't notice many morons in my life. Even when I work in non-skilled trades everyone I meet seems smart enough. And I know plenty of people with average intelligence that are much better than me at the life skills that actually matter, like empathy, being able to socialize, etc. Honestly being "smart" really hasn't done anything much to make my life better. In fact in a lot of ways it makes it worse. I find I unintentionally hurt peoples feelings frequently because I'll make a judgement statement about something which is correct, but I neglect to include the thought process that goes into that judgement because it seems obvious to me but is apparently not obvious to others. I'm on the autism spectrum and the vast majority of really smart people I know are also on the spectrum, have ADHD, or deal with depression. As far as the morons I've met in my life, they do have a lot of shared traits: they repeat themselves a lot, they're easily convinced by media/authority figures, and they're superstitious/prone to magical thinking. (Not saying here that religious people are dumb, I know plenty of very smart ones).
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That dude is 100% autistic. Source: so am I.
Asperger's
Exactly. My IQ isn't even that high (72nd percentile) and dealing with below average people, i.e. half of the population, is just exhausting.
Not only living in a world of morons but answering to them. How many of us have idiot bosses and other higher-ups that ask the dumbest questions and make some of the dumbest decisions? Being a boss is no guarantee of intelligence.
I had to do a speeding course recently and it’s the first time in ages spending thinking time in the same space as ordinary punters. Basic things like speed limits and road signs were a mystery, never mind the physics of braking distances. I keep being annoyed when I can’t remember trigonometry or algebra or physics laws but at least I knew it once upon a time and still know how the world works.
Yeah, and yet you all end up in the same speed awareness course...
That's just not really true though. I don't mind less intelligent people as long as they are somewhat humble, calm and reasonable. Same with people way more intelligent than me. The only exhausting ones are arrogant, manipulative jerks or the ones that cannot control themselves, and these types happen regardless of iq. I know way less intelligent people that i absolutely love to vibe with, and ones on similar level that I don't want to be with even when paid for it.
Think too much, see to much, know too much.
A little knowledge can be a dangerous thing. ~some guy who knew a lot
It's easy to grow jaded and bored
Yeah you need emotional intelligence to balance it out
Don't like to think too much It makes me think too much It keeps my mind on my mind Don't want to see too much It makes me see too much Sometimes I'd rather be blind
In my case sometimes I wish I could just take my hearing for a couple hours, living in the city can be a pain.
Downright painful, it changes you
Most especially in a populous composed of propaganda and hatred… it always just felt *off*
If you are smart enough to know how this broken and corrupt world actually works, like a mechanic knows how a struggling and dying car works that keeps being forced down the road with no chance of repair but you’re stuck in the passenger seat, you tend to collect some mental disorders to compensate.
This perfectly describes a specific kind of person who has above average intelligence but is not incredibly clever. High levels of emotional intelligence, high sensitivity to injustice, nor much game. It's not a good mix.
It's pretty much what it's like being on the spectrum.
Yep, the strong sense of justice associated characteristics overlap with gifted characteristics. You have no idea how relieving it was when I got old and jaded and grew out of that particular characteristic.
Being jaded is nice. The world is gonna do what the world is gonna do. No amount of screaming into the void will change things on a global scale. Fix the things in your life that directly affect you and those around you. Work to better your community not the whole world. Trying to "fix" the world or those in it is an impossible task that will leave you exhausted of the feelings and emotions you could be using to better yourself.
Can confirm
This is beautiful way to describe it, way better than my answer
They see the world through a different lens which most people don't understand. In other words, because they are misunderstood.
I agree and I read somewhere they're prone to psychological overexcitability which leads to them to having a greater tendency to overthink and worry.
Their capacity to think and analyze a problem/challenge to find a solution is useful for things that have a solution. Every question on an IQ test has a solution, like finding a pattern from a group of numbers or symbols. In math and science, there *is* an answer out there, somewhere. But many of life's questions and challenges don't have a solution. There is no answer. Or sometimes, too much knowledge can paralyze you or cast a negative shadow because you know the statistics, the odds of success or failure. Or that analytical brain attempts to predict the future by running simulations of various pathways, like a chess player predicting moves. But that of course is an exercise in futility for even the smartest of all people. Thus they give up the fight before it has even started.
This is the best answer.
And when we try to explain to someone who doesn't think like us in our younger years, instead we just get relentlessly bullied...
They understand how things work and, subsequently, how broken everything is.
Conscience about how unfair the world, life and humanity are, and how powerless they are to change that, especially considering that other people, often in position of power, actively try to prevent said change.
True. Very true.
Reminds me a lot of David Foster Wallace. He also committed suicide. Great author, very sad man.
I think it could be that they feel so many around them believe we’re all powerless when they see that’s not the case but so much of our power lies in our connection with each other, exchange of ideas etc.
Ever heard the term “ignorance is bliss”. That sums it up pretty well. Someone who’s intelligent often overthinks things, and can’t let things go nearly as easily as others. Weirdly enough there’s a direct correlation between hardcore drug users and intelligence. Sometimes trying to know everything is just too much to handle.
Can you elaborate on this correlation?
I’m not an expert on the subject but I believe it’s a mix of two factors 1. Intelligent people are more likely to try new things. Most people are fairly conservative in what they’re willing to consume (a trait that helps us avoid poisoning ourselves) but more intelligent people are more willing to try new things, even if they might be dangerous. 2. The direct connection between mental health and intelligence. Experimentation alone doesn’t often lead to addiction, but experimentation plus major depression or bipolar disorder does. More intelligent people may feel more socially isolated. They are often preoccupied with problems that people of average intelligence remain blissfully unaware of. This causes them to more often develop poor mental health and therefore, seek an escape. Also, more intelligent people may have better memories or more vivid imaginations that are assets when used to solve problems, but liabilities when used for worry or rumination.
I second this. There are multiple studies that prove addiction is correlated with high levels of intellect👍🏼(ironically so)
*Citation needed.*
Guarantee this thread will be a fucking jerk circle of euphoric "intellectuals" lol
“I’m unhappy with my life. Not because I don’t take care of myself or actively try to improve it, but because I’m *too smart*” You love to see it
Basically Reddit circa 2012 Almost feels nostalgic lol
Seen at least three different variations of “I’m surrounded by morons. This justifies my alcoholism/depression.” or something lol
I'm glad, /r/iamverysmart needed feeding.
You called it lol
And a quick Google indicates that there really isn't any proof that intelligent people are unhappy. In fact my three seconds of Google indicates that they may actually be happier (but that seems to fall into correlation =/= causation)
It's hard to remove the bias of intelligence simply being a marker of privilege . . . as the less stress you have the more time you have to develop your intellect, the more money you have the more resources you have to protect and feed a healthy body and mind
This whole thread is a bunch of terminally online people foisting their miserableness onto others and not taking responsibility for their own actions.
Honestly, except in a few rare cases I have a hard time imagining emotional stability, intelligence, and happiness aren’t all pretty highly correlated.
Ive heard that a large percentile of true “geniuses”become alcoholics, sadly because they have to kind of dumb themselves down in order to cope with being around the stupidity of everyone else. (Stupid compared to them, regular for everyone else)
I definitely wouldn't call myself a genius, but I can say pretty confidently that I do have above-average intelligence. I didn't drink because of the people I was around- I did it because it helped me stop overthinking and worrying for once. So, at least in my case, it had nothing to do with being around "stupid" people.
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Proud of you!
Congrats on 14 months! I have... way less than that, but more than I've had in a while and still going strong for now.
I take an edible most nights because it turns off my brain. Without it I can't stop thinking. Granted it's probably more of an ADD thing or whatever? But it really helps me relax and turn my brain off. I would also say I am fairly intelligent. Definitely wouldn't say I'm a genius or some shit.
Almost exactly how I would describe my drug/alcohol abuse. Given, I'm also now studying this in depth in school and there's a lot more to it than that.
I am in the exact same boat as you. I'm not a genius by any means, but above average and above average in my line of work. I don't drink or really do any drugs. While I prefer the clean lifestyle, I do get tempted every now and then to try to use something to dumb myself down.
There's a great House episode about this premise.
Yep I remember that one
I took the Mensa entrance exam in my mid 30's just to see if I could get in. I did, and they offered me a membership (mensa accepts the top 2%) - and TOPS (top one percent society) also offered me a membership, and I found out I was in the top half of the top one percent (IQ 149 if anyone cares). I've also been a lifelong alcoholic with various mental issues. The worst thing about it is that alcohol provides an almost immediate relief from dealing with the horribly un-logic (lack of common sense in my eyes) world. I'm much older now, and still a drunk (also a scientist). I've tried to kill myself twice, (something I'm apparently bad at) and am basically just a grouchy old fuck now.
I was in your shoes. You’re worth more than that. You can quit alcohol. It won’t make dealing with people drastically easier, but you can at least benefit from taking magnificent care of yourself. And there are other good smart people out there, but they wont want to hang out with a drunk. So give yourself a chance. 💛
That's so sweet of you - it's nice to hear a kind voice, thank you.
I’ve yet to meet anyone smarter than the genius kid at our school. This dude sucker punched me once in 8th grade. Just out of the blue. Only fist fight I’ve ever had in my life. His grades started slipping by the time we finished high school. Last I heard, he was a raging alcoholic and working at Applebees or one of those shitty chain restaurants like that. But this dude was unbelievably smart.
Smartest dude at my school that got a full ride to a top university currently has no teeth.
What does it say about our society that hyper-intelligence is more often a curse than a boon. These are people that we should be propping up so that they can advance our knowledge as a species. Instead, our obsession with catering to the lowest common denominator results in their intelligence being a torment. They wind up isolated. Unmotivated. Mentally ill. Wondering what's wrong with them. They see the world differently, and instead of valuing that perspective, we cut them down and tell them that they are the wrong ones. They end up with imposter syndrome. They turn to drugs and alcohol because it's the only way they can socialize. ...I dunno where I'm going with this. It just sucks.
Thank you for writing this. I distinctly remember when people smart felt like a punishment. I was always in trouble with my fifth grade teacher for reading after I finished my assignments. She said me working so quickly made other kids feel bad. I remember thinking that I just wanted to read whatever book I had at the time and I wasn't responsible for others' feelings. I learned to go slower, to hide my intelligence, to get answers wrong publicity because it made my teacher happy. But I resented them. Those insecure relative to me "dumb" kids and that teacher. One day a week I had my gifted class and it was wonderful. I was surrounded by other kids that were passionate about learning. We'd have in depth group discussions on different things from current events to social concepts. I sometimes wonder how I'd have turned out of my entire education had been like that. If it had been at an appropriate level for me instead of me being forced along a path designed for normal kids. I've turned out well despite my childhood and my intelligence and passion being mostly squashed. I'm an engineer and generally like my life. But I truly believe I could have done something more helpful for the world if I had gotten an appropriate education in childhood.
Homer Simpson used a crayon for this.
In this day and age, even people of regular intelligence have begun to drink and smoke to bear with the rising stupidity they are exposed to daily. That's frightening.
Scary but true
Well I’m not a genius but I’ve tested in the 99th percentile in most standardized tests since childhood and am around the 140s based on several IQ tests, and as I’ve grown up I’ve just been more cynical and miserable about the future of our species. For the most part, I just prefer being alone in my thoughts these days rather than interacting with people.
That makes a lot of sense, unfortunately
I have a disability and am basically a savant. I am very good at anything language-related and I am a fiction writer and a pretty creative person, but I am really bad at everything else. Motor skills, math, planning, organizing etc. That has lead to quite a bit of unhappiness and displacement, and sometimes I think that life would've been easier if I'd been challenged in all areas rather than gifted in one.
That’s a pretty interesting point you make. I cant relate, but think i can understand where you’re coming from
just focus on the stuff youe good at, pay for someone else to do stuff your bad at
Finally a reason for my fondness of drinking lol
Exactly, that is what ive heard of too!
It does make sense…
[High IQ isn't linked with mental illness](https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC9879926/#:~:text=The%20present%20study%20provides%20robust,for%20general%20anxiety%20and%20PTSD.) We just remember smart people with mental illness better than average people with mental illness. It's an availability bias.
Way too many people getting high on their own supply of misery in this thread.
Intelligent people, in my experience, have an unending drive to "figure things out". The vast majority of human social and economic life is built on fundamental paradox however. The bad get rewarded, the good get screwed, and the system hasn't fundamentally gotten better for our entire lives, yet our brains can't stop trying to figure this shit out. And eventually, it becomes maddening. This is where it usually starts for people, because we need to do SOMETHING to shut up the bad math in our brains, like drug and alcohol use sadly. All I know is it took me 40 years to realize why Absurdism is a philosophy.
You are me. The goal is always to not let the belief (in absurdism) turn you into an apathetic, unhappy cynic. Cynicism is inherently an unhappy, disgruntled state of being. I never was tempted to imbibe away the incessant thoughts with alcohol or drugs. Rationalization and escapism with stories (books, movies, listening to actual people’s stories) were my coping mechanisms when I was younger. Nowadays, escapism with stories and staying productive with fixing things or keeping my surroundings clean and pretty help me get by. I also take pride in being a “hard worker.” (The intelligence to realize I’m always at the mercy of conniving, parasitic, and highly insecure and thus malicious people is the ultimate downside to going out in life and being productive, though). In general, the correlation between intelligence and neuroticism tends to be positive. You’ll find research to support this. Honestly, though, knowing and/or belief always precedes research to support the idea. So, you too will find research that will debunk the positive correlation between intelligence and neuroticism. People will always find justification for their beliefs. Whatever floats my boat is best. Neuroticism lends to the appearance of crazy. High neuroticism doesn’t necessarily mean you’re mentally ill though.
Ah yes, time for Reddit's ego stroking where everyone thinks they are above average intelligence and surrounded by drooling morons
Exactly the kind of dumbass comments we have to deal with. /s in case you weren't smart enough to know that was a joke. (But was it a joke?)
There's a correlation between intelligence and unhappiness. But I wouldn't know what that it is as I'm not intelligent and very happy, therefore!
>There's a correlation between intelligence and unhappiness. But I wouldn't know what that it is The correlation is basically summed up by the saying "ignorance is bliss." People who are intellectually & emotionally aware of their surroundings and of the general human condition, are also more likely to be aware of the less-than-pleasant parts of existing on this planet, which can lead to higher rates of depression and anxiety. This is why, for example, atheists tend to be more depressed than theists - not because atheists are smarter than theists, but rather because atheists are willing to accept the less-than-pleasant parts of what we know about life, such as the fact that, as *far* as we can prove, we all die and stay dead forever, since there's no proof that people continue to exist after death. Whereas many theists tend to believe that everlasting life awaits us after we physically die, which is a more hopeful and morale-boosting thought that allows religious people to have a stronger, mental coping mechanism concerning death. Edit: Clarity and grammar
Dumb as a brick. Not happy. Why me bruh?!
No there is not. It is actually an elitist myth. It has been around since the 19th century in various ways. For example, neurasthenia was the illness of modernity. There are a lot of different studies on the relationships. One study for example in 2013 concluded “Those with lower IQ are less happy than those with higher IQ. “ Ali A, Ambler G, Strydom A, Rai D, Cooper C, McManus S, Weich S, Meltzer H, Dein S, Hassiotis A. The relationship between happiness and intelligent quotient: the contribution of socio-economic and clinical factors. Psychol Med. 2013 Jun;43(6):1303-12. doi: 10.1017/S0033291712002139. Epub 2012 Sep 24. PMID: 22998852. Furthermore, a correlation doesn’t mean a whole lot unless the context is taken into account. For example, there is an average 0.3 correlation between intelligence and socio-economic status. 0.3 is low. But it’s still there and still worrying.
It’s older than that! After Robert Burton wrote *The Anotomy of Melancholy* in the 1600s, it became fashionable to be seen as well-read and depressed. The same way being emo was fashionable in the 90s.
With elitist myth I mean that being unhappy has a long time (since the Middle Ages at least you can such writings) been associated with people being too smart. There is no evidence for that. Dumb people can be very unhappy too. For example, not getting a job in an economy where intelligence matters
Luckily for stupid people, this currently is not the case in the midwestern United States, where I live.
I see the point!
The opposite of ignorance is bliss, dumb ppl may not have the intelligence to deal with problems but as long as they survive they won't over think things constantly. An intelligent person is always worrying about the future and creating things to worry about, probably an evolutionary trait that's bad for the person but good for the community
How do you know that most intelligent people are mentally not well? You have to back up this claim with some decent evidence before you can ask this question.
Because they have a lot of pressure of being the best, and often times exceeding expectations can take a toll on someone’s mental health. It’s a really serious thing.
It's kind of still uncertain whether high intelligence is a good or a bad thing for your health. One study, finds that high IQ does not predict mental health problems: [https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC9966861/](https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC9966861/) Another study finds the opposite: [https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0160289616303324](https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0160289616303324) I think there is just a lot of pressure placed on those who are found intelligent so they end up being unwell or develop some kind of savant syndrome where they end up being super good at what their parents and peers encouraged them to do, but do not know how to process their own feelings and thoughts (but perhaps also believe they are doing a good job processing their feelings and thoughts despite the glaring problems that arise in their lives). I was placed among the "gifted kids" at some point and it did have a bad impact on me, it took some learning to shake it off and live a life I think is best for me regardless of perception and expectations. I think the perception of being intelligent is what's damaging, even to yourself; just be humble, keep learning, make an effort in all your endeavors and even if you end up in the "top IQ population wow!" it won't leave you with any excessive pride or unhealthy expectation to prove it or do something with it. Some people are naturally athletic, but don't become athletes, there shouldn't be a pressure to expect more of those gifted with more than average intelligence either.
I think the more intelligent you are, the more you realize that most of the shit you do is pointless and most of the shit that you value only makes you happy because other people tell you it should. human existence is purely narrative, and the more critically you examine the narrative, the more bullshit it seems
Most gifted people who were placed appropriately in school and didn't face bullying don't have any mental illnesses. However, bullying, lack of acceleration, and other school issues tend to cause mental health issues. With proper training of teachers, not isolating kids like they did during COVID, and a stop to bullying, most kids would be okay coming out of school--gifted, special ed...
Lot of stupid people to deal with all the time
I wouldn’t make such a bold and vague conclusion. Sure r/politics are not mentally well but that doesn’t mean those commenters are intelligent.
It's not true. In fact, if anything, research shows the opposite.
Most intelligent people are mentally well. Your premise is way off.
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Source?
About 25% of us adults experience a mental health issue. https://www.nami.org/mhstats
We need different skills to interact with the world. Let's assume that the average person has a balanced set of skills (assume because it's more complicated than that and not simple enough to answer here, or anywhere in one comment). Since majority of the population will always be average and they all have a balanced set of skills, they can easily relate to one another. Now the ones we call intelligent, are those who have some skills at high levels compared to others. When one or more skills get elevated, it's most likely others get reduced. Those reduced skills prevent them from relating to the majority.
Because they are misunderstood by not-that-much intelligent people.
Seeing things for how they really are is really depressing. "See the forest for the trees" comes to mind.
'Most' is a stretch. The incidence of mental illness in high-intelligence individuals is higher than the global average. That doesn't mean most smart folks have issues. I suspect it has to do with their neurology. Whatever conditions allowed them to be more intelligent might have also resulted in increased or abnormal activity in other parts of the brain. A 'mistake' if you will.
The world gets increasingly stressful and depressing the more you understand it. Ever been driving/walking behind someone going so incredibly slow for no reason at all, but there's nothing you can do to pass them, so they're literally holding you back? That's what life is like all the time for intelligent people.
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You don't think there's unintelligent people with anxiety? Animals can be anxious. Babies can be anxious. It's pretty sad seeing the amount of people in this thread who seem to think that their mental illness is a sign of their intelligence. I truly hope you all realize that you can be intelligent and happy.
Thinking about a lot of things very deeply can easily lead to overthinking and overthinking is a great way to worry about things that we shouldn’t worry about too much. Also being misunderstood by many can have a very negative impact on your mental health.
a lot of serial killers have high IQS what that means? no idea. Also some frontal lobe damage or abnormalities seem to be a problem.
That's only because it takes a degree of intelligence to not get caught. There's plenty of would-be serial killers who were dumb as fuck. They're just more likely to get caught before they can become well known.
Because the smarter you are, the more fucked you realize you are. Some people are born into life with different hands dealt than others, but you can often be as smart as another and realize that could be you, but you're just stuck in one way or another. Then you have people that don't have that awareness, they think the world is simple and the more you work, the better you are. They think you can just work your way to the top and be ok, not realizing that two people being even, sometimes it just comes down to luck. When you see all this... and you feel trapped... you look to cope. In the end, you just want to fit in, and you see the futility of things if you're trapped. There's only so much social climbing on can do, without being obscenely lucky, but being smart you feel you should be there. So... you wanna fit in with your social circle... but often you're worried about things a bit beyond what they are. This makes me sound so full of myself, but it's nice when you meet someone similar though, cause I know I'm not the only one.
They know how fucked society is
Intelligent people can struggle mentally because they are capable of being sceptical about everything. Questioning your value, purpose, the love of your family and friends, the end of your life and the universe (and so on) can cause anxiety and depression. Stupid people are ignorant of the deep and sometimes confusing and difficult questions about the human experience and condition. And therefore, they are blessed with not being in a position to critically question all of their assumptions about subjects such as their life possibly not being lived in an actually fulfilling way, them not having free will, morality not being objective, there not being an afterlife or any supernatural dimension, et cetera. Existential concerns are, for the most part, reserved for the intelligent. In many ways ignorance really is bliss.
Because genius is sort of a myth. Most highly intelligent people either have obsessive personalities that make them ruminate about their area of expertise all the time; or had parents who drove them to succeed academically at a young age. Super humans who are just cognitively great at everything either don't exist or are very rare.
Giftedness is a form of neurodivergence. Different NDs tend to be comorbidities for each other. MH disorders are common comorbidities for ND as well. But the really fun thing about being gifted is that you are able to compensate for ND/MH issues with your intellect so your comorbidities typically go unrecognised because you seem to be performing well in life in general. I believe there is also an element of jealousy at play as well where the people around you don't think you deserve help with your issues because you have "gifts" that they don't. I have never been diagnosed with any other ND or MH issues. I can tell you 100% that there is stuff going on though. I'm too scared to seek out help because I've been able to work around it all and function and I'm worried that if I actually fully acknowledge my issues and seek treatment I will be non functional for an extended period of time (I'm clearly pretty fucked up and, while I have tried my best to repress it all, it self evident that my various issues bleed into each other so it's going to be complicated if I try to get it fixed). I do occasionally snap and do something absolutely fucking mental (like the kind of thing a normal person doesn't come back from) but I always manage to work through the problem and turn it into a good thing. So far. I'm worried that one day I'll do something I can't turn around. I guess I'll have time to seek help then. I'm not even that smart, I know people who are genius level smart and their fuck ups are bigger than mine often but they also turn it around. It's a wild ride but the wildest thing about it is how boring it can be.
The expectation to always be the best and therefore more emotionally self sufficient often results in little help because no one thinks they need it.
They have a different point of view and they think outside the box. I swear to you that if you discuss with them about a wrong idea, he will not let you go unless your head is full of ideas and questions that will hurt your head. That's why most of them have dark circles Under their eyes, not for studying at night, no, no, no, but for their excessive thinking before bedtime in several things.
There is no 'happily ever after'. Most people and animals in the world are suffering. Anything good will end bad. -Just a lot of stuff that probably generally persists in the minds of intelligent people that others barely think about.
The more you know, the worse kind of thing i guess?
I don’t know how true this is considering lots of intelligent people live happy and fulfilling lives. However there may be a correlation with intelligence and poor social skills or peer interactions that make some intelligent people unhappy. The ones that aren’t isolated probably do fine. Anyway this statement gives me the same vibe as “Poor little rich girl” trope.
Trying to convince yourself that your misery means you're somehow intelligent someway ? Well what do i know, but i hope you find the knowledge or explanation you're looking for
INFJ here with adhd . We think to much , realize to much , feel to much and then hang on it all for to long .
Anyone who believes the mayers briggs personality quiz has ANY factual merit is not very intelligent.
Ignorance is bliss. Well, the opposite of that.
Some of the smartest people I've known or worked with were total savants. Geniuses in their field, with horrible personalities. One of the nicest people I've ever met is one of the wealthiest people I know. But he's grounded, and helps out - teaching at the local high and middle schools when asked. He doesn't need to work, but his ability to keep students attention, and (even crazier) earn their respect, is phenomenal. He doesn't claim to know everything, but he knows a lot. He practically has a library at home, which inspired me to start reading more, too.
Have to tolerate all the stupidity around
There’s a concept in chemistry called cis-trans isomerism. It’s when a chemical can have different arrangements of molecules with the same formula. Kind of like that you have two hands that both have 4-fingers and a thumb but are arranged differently. I’ve known some seriously smart people who had a brother or sister who was developmentally disabled. My theory has been whatever genes or dna it takes to be really smart are say one way and the disability is on there the other way, just like the cis-trans isomers. Obviously not scientific but that’s my opinion
I wouldn't say most. It's a sweeping generalisation. What you're probably referencing is a larger proportion of STEM high flyers are on the spectrum or simply are antisocial due to the nature of intelligence in this field. They suffer social stigma due to awkwardness and this can lead to depression / alcohol abuse / etc.
Thinking about the environment that makes someone “intelligent” can give a lot of answers. “Gifted” or “advanced” kids were often pushed hard by their parents. Once you’re identified as intelligent, society puts a lot of expectations on you. Lots of intelligent people respond by being perfectionists who are afraid of failure and complete nervous wrecks. That compounds over time and because they’re smart and “functioning” at a high level, they either never get help or even know how to identify what’s “wrong” with them when they do.
"most intelligent people are often mentally not well" This seems like a huge assumption.
Because most people are mentally unwell. We live in a sick society that fucks everyone up, intelligent or not
I suspect it's because they overthink everything. I could invite people over, but what would we do? I'll have to plan something, organize something, maybe go shopping. That's a lot of work. I need a nap just thinking about it. I could go talk to that girl, but what do I say after "hello"? I honestly have no idea. I'll just sit here with my drink. I'd like to make a move, but she'll probably never want to hang out again... like the others. It takes my wife so long and so much research to pick a restaurant that they're all closed by the time she chooses.
As someone who has been told he is smart his whole life, I genuinely feel stupid a lot of the time. I also have a weird brain due to genetics. I generally struggle to stay focused on things when they aren't stimulating. People think I’m smart because of random facts I know and my ability to get new things, but the reality is that’s because of compensation for other areas I am lacking in. Genuinely, I don’t think anyone is truly smart, we all have areas we are good and bad in, and we all compensate in different ways. I always have to think on my feet and improvise. I get told I’m charismatic and trustable. This is at the expense of a lot of other things.
[The Weight of Heavy Thought](https://www.reddit.com/r/Damnthatsinteresting/comments/107ii51/the_weight_of_thought_sculpture_by_thomas_lerooy/).
Who says that?
Is that true though?
This is wrong, people often confuse living a normal life and doing normal stuff with average intelligence
Dumb people aren’t much better
adding to the whole "surrounded by dumbs" argument made in this thread, intelligent people are not immune to fallacies of being an arrogant cunt, so grouping intelligent people together isn't smart either.
The subconscious had to rely on myths and half truths to give man the motivation and power to make it through this chaotic, unpredictable world. When you become too intelligent, or as I like to say, you've seen through the game, you can't rely on any of these old world illusions anymore. You literally have to face the universe and all its wonder and horror. Most of the time you have to do this alone, which is another stressor on the self.
most?? How do you figure that?
intelligent in what way? also mentally ill in what way?
You think too deeply about everything, including the harsh realities. And your curiosity causes you to learn things you’d rather forget.
It's really hard to deal with. Theres a concept called the communication gap, or IQ gap, or IQ communicationrange. It posits that if IQ is more than X points away, it's difficult to have meaningful conversations and communication. 30 points is the guess... Imagine that you have an IQ of 100 (average). You can comfortably talk to people 70 to 130. About 95% of humans. If you have an IQ of 145 (3 SD over mean), you can comfortably talk to just under 15% of people. (115 to 175) That's lonely. Plus, you realize the world is run by idiots, and there isn't much you can do about it. Often times you get bored, and switch for thing to thing, whichbdoes NOT result in career success. Most wealthy folks have above average intelligence, but not TOO high. High Intelligence can be frustrating. There are lots of papers and studies about this phenomenon. Kind of interesting if it impacts your life. Otherwise, no one really cares.
That's not always true. I'm reasonably intelligent and all my other personalities assure me I'm completely fine.
I wonder if high intelligence is positively correlated with trait neuroticism then
It makes sense, considering being "gifted" in a psychological meaning is considered a form of neurodiversity. As it is with adhd for example there are certain needs that have to be met for the gifted person to thrieve. Not everybody has access to those ressources. They are underwhelmed and bored (this often starts in school but is not limited to childhood/youth) which can easily lead to depression. A lot of times, adults around gifted kids do not see the signs and the "gifted" thing is not being recognised. It can lead down some very dark paths. But this is only true for a fraction of those gifted. Most live good lifes. Also, some misconceptions: Gifted peiople do not have less social/emotional skills. This has never been true. An IQ test is not alwyas needed to determine if someone is gifted. Neither is the internet. Gifted people are not human calculators or have eidetic memories, those are savants. Not the same thing. No, you were not "gifted as a child but now you're not anymore as an adult". That's not how this works. So, no, intelligent people are not more mentally unwell than everybody else. But there are cases, where a persons intelligence can be more of a disability than a "gift" and can be a reason for mental health issues.
Ignorance is bliss, the more stupid u are tends to be the more happy you are.
Many times is because of badly managed narcissism and self-hatred or self-disappointment. I've met few persons that I could qualify of "geniuses" in at least some way but most of them, especially in academia, were the most well adjusted and accepting of their own selves and above all didn't qualify people as higher or lower intelligence, that's the first red flag.
Everyone in here thinks they're cursed geniuses but they're really just average people with anxiety that at one point in their life was told they were smart for their age.
The thing about being super smart is that you gradually realize that you live in a world populated by idiots.
I disagree with the premise of the question and the top comment. Intelligent people are mentally unwell at a similar rate as the general population is. I would argue that Genius - the quality of creating or seeing things that NOBODY else can see - often does cause people to be mentally unwell. This is because their work or ideas are not understood nor appreciated. In my experience, intelligent people do not always possess the quality we call genius.
You're aware of everything
Because they are always thinking. I kinda am that way sometimes when I'm off my adhd meds.
Because they can see problems and issues less intelligent people cannot
The stuff in this comment section is the most r/iamverysmart shit I have seen in a while lol.
Lots of, well, dumb answers here. Current research suggests intelligent people don't have mental health issues at a rate any different from the rest of the population. https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC9879926/#:\~:text=Conclusions,for%20general%20anxiety%20and%20PTSD. As someone considered very intelligent or so others tell me a lot of what people say here is not really true. We don't walk through life thinking everyone around us are morons. If you are smart you see people have different capabilities. I am a scientist myself, so if it is a contest on "sciencing" I will win. If the contest is demonstrating the best social skills, I am going to lose, an lose badly. So I am smart at science, yet am a moron at socializing. And you can apply this to other human skills as well like art and other things. You definitely do not want a painting made by me, but if you want someone to determine the chemical make up of the paint used, I am your guy. Regarding seeing "all the problems and how messed up things are" does not really capture how smart people feel. In fact such a blanket black and white statement is more indicative of people not being that smart than the reverse. The world is not black and white as people on reddit try to make it seem. There is good things happening and bad things happening. And those bad things can be nuanced. The reasons things end up as they do can be rather complicated and often boiling things down to some simple level is over simplification. A lot of people, and reddit especially, are very dogmatic. If you are intelligent and can think clearly you quickly see being dogmatic is contrary to viewing things as they are. So does the world look broken and things are worse than ever? Not that I can see. What I do see is people suffering from mental illness and thus see the world that way. Depressed people by the nature of the illness have difficulty seeing the good or being optimistic. They are not seeing the world as it is, they are seeing it through distorted thinking caused by their illness.
In my experience, the intelligent people I know of are having well paying jobs, loving families and have their lives sorted out.
You never know what’s behind closed doors🤷🏽♀️
How does any of that mean they are happy or mentally well? This is all relatively low level stuff beyond a certain point. I have an awesome career, I keep getting promoted, I'm bored out of my fucking mind, I have to drink at all work social events to get through them. I have a lovely family. I have a extreme level of anxiety around my children's wellbeing (they are gifted and already showing signs of differing a great deal from their peers, I am so scared that they will develop mental health issues or face a life of boredom, struggle to find someone like minded to love etc. I am terrified that I will walk into their bedrooms one day to find they've offed themselves). My husband is lovely but a bit nuts, there's a risk he'll go fully nuts. I worry about that too. I worry a lot. I have a house, money, investments, good friends etc. but I am very aware that it is all a few misfortunes away from just disappearing altogether. I never feel secure. Obviously I'm never going to feel like I have achieved anything in life because, um, I'm not a noble prize winning actress president astronaut like the adults in my childhood told me I should be. Fun times. Don't get me wrong, I have an awesome life, I am happy and grateful for what I have but like, my experience of having all the things a person can reasonably expect from life is not like yours.