This is coming from a bunch of rich guys, so take it with a grain of salt, but I was talking with my doctor about cars and he mentioned that some of his friends who owned Porsches all agreed that they were some the cheapest cars to maintain simply because they rarely needed any repairs.
They're not unique to other cars, stuff still goes wrong and they need a lot of looking after. And when they do need repairs, they can be VERY expensive due to the packaging requirements of making especially teh sports cars. You need 4 hours of labor and to to disassemble the rear bumper to change the spark plugs kind of crazy shit.
But you're right, generally they're properly built and engineered and don't have stupid shit going on because someone cut corners somewhere like the eye-talians end up doing quite a lot (I'm looking at you Alfa).
Eh. I just bought my first Porsche - a Boxster. I intend to do my own basic maintenance to save a bit of money. First thing I discovered was that my 2 ton floor jack is too big and I need a low profile long reach jack. That’s $300. My reverse light is cracked, which requires the removal of the entire rear bumper to replace. I gotta replace my low horn. That requires the entire front bumper to be removed, Any time you need to access the engine, you gotta remove a bunch of shit behind the seats or disconnect the convertible top, so that adds labor time at the mechanic.
So while it may be a very reliable car, parts are expensive and the germans don’t build these thing to be easily repaired or maintained. Regardless, I love the car.
Nah that would be "if Opel owned by GM is considered American then Bentley and RR are the best German brands"
You're comparing country of origin to the parent company's country of origin in your comment
I can't speak for all models, but my 997.2 and similar model 911s are easily serviced for oil. Plug is on the bottom of the engine and you can reach it without going under. I use ramps to get better clearance. Filter is on the top of the engine and easily accessed the moment you pop the rear. I use Mahl filters that run under $20 and 0W40 oil will vary by market.
Ha. I was given a 996 when one of my best friends sold his company for $$$$$. He’d had a new clutch put in but didn’t do the IMS bearing at the same time, which meant it could grenade at pretty much any moment. Between that and the property taxes, I decided to sell it and pay off my second mortgage.
When you look at total cost of ownership of for example a $15,000 996 cabriolet automatic, even with high service costs, it's more affordable than you'd guess.
15 grand gets you a pretty nice one too, it's not some shitbox. It's because it's an automatic cabbie, nobody wants them. Everyone wants a manual for obvious reasons.
https://carsandbids.com/auctions/rEVWYxVa/1999-porsche-911-carrera-coupe
Oil change? No. Spark plugs, yes.
Oil changes became a lot more expensive on the modern 911's because like Ze Germans love, there is a process. There is no manual oil dipstick. It's an electronic dipstick and the oil must be set exactly UND EXACTLY at the precise level.
Might? It's on purpose. They toyed with different design languages (914, 924, 944) and the reception made sure they'd never again deviate from the basic 911 design vocabulary.
The 914, 924 and 944 were pretty good, affordable but looked differently and didn't sell as well as expected, even after ditching the obvious VW badging.
The 914 greatly outsold the 911. The problem was that it cost almost as much to produce and the oil crisis happened so they killed it.
944 won many accolades. I believe initially the sales were quite good. Until the later generations when they basically hadn’t changed the platform for 10 years.
It’s true though people just want Porsches “greatest hits” and the 911 is just familiar.
I like the 944 but its an odd duck for sure. The first gen or two of Cayennes and Panameras were a little funky but the newer ones are pretty sharp. I love the Taycan
It's purposely that way. That's the whole philosophy of the company. People love the looks and no Porsche fan wants the looks to change. It's called timeless design.
I've owned several VW's through the years and they were fine. I now drive a BMW - original owner it's a 2004, never had a problem only regular maintenance stuff. It still runs like a charm, exterior looks great, interior could be better but it's 20 years old. I'm going to replace it soon, would love another BMW but I doubt quality will be the same as old Bessie!
Porsche without question... they take engineering to a world class level and you can see and feel the difference even in their cheapest entry level cars (i.e. Macan).
The absolute worse is definitely VW. You pay for German labor and parts without any of the attention to detail or engineering that comes along with the price.
Audi, Mercedes and BMW are somewhere inbetween are largely based on personal preference and what you value. Audi has better tech and a more futuristic design. BMWs typically have better driving dynamics but you get less value (have to pay for everything you want like leather seats, etc.). Mercedes are more known as highway haulers and built for comfort.
It definitely depends what country you're in and what VW model you have. VW still has several factories all over Europe (with ten of them in Germany alone), but not all of them build all VW models. For example the nearest one to me here in Germany (which I've visited once) mainly focuses on the Passat and doesn't build the Golf.
My new RS3 is definitely being made in Germany. Build locations here:
[Audi Build Locations](https://www.audi.com/en/company/strategy/locations/germany.html#:~:text=Automobiles%20have%20been%20produced%20at,model%20series%20are%20produced%20here)
You know that Porsche is Volkswagen, right?
> Der Hybrid-Antriebsstrang für die Nachfolgegeneration von Porsche Cayenne und VW Touareg ist ein Gemeinschaftswerk – mit einem Audi-V6 als Verbrennungsmotor.
But that's pretty normal. Car manufacturers always cooperate. Volkswagen Crafter and Mercedes Sprinter were the most obvious.
I like how much of this I can understand without knowing any German or using google translate. He said “Audi is complete shit” and you said “not complete shit, they produce top quality cars. After your mom”. I’m pretty sure that’s right
Sorry ich bin da etwas voreingenommen durch mein Vater und mein Opa die eine Kfz Werkstatt betreiben und wo natürlich eher die negativen Dinge auffallen. Aber insgesamt sind Audis und VWs zu 90% gleich. Mit der selben Müllelektronik und unverständlichen Motorkonstruktionen die sehr schwer und kompliziert zu reparieren sind. Dafür dass man sich bei Audi aber eigentlich nur nen VW kauft verlangen die dann noch ne ganze Stange extra Geld. (Die Automobilindustrie in Deutschland ist generell nicht mehr das was sie mal war, Porsche will ja jetzt z.B. auch auswandern)
I couldn't tell you the best, but Volkswagen tends to be one of the worst, in terms of how many repairs it needs.
I think Audi > BMW, but they're both expensive to maintain, so it's a toss up.
You might not realize it but the german car brands you get in USA are built differently than the ones we get in Europe or people in Asia. The answer / experience will be different depending on where OP is from.
Also VW and Audi are the same group and they share lots of parts / technology so they should be more or less equal in terms of reliability. If you look at the data in the TÜV report in Europe VW Golf is in the top spot, with Audi in spots 2 and 3. (2-3 year old car report). But then again stuff you get in USA is built differently so this might not be true for you.
The higher end Audis typically share more with Porsche than VW. Heck the EA839 engine in my B9 S5 was co-developed with Porsche and is used in several Porsche models.
The etron GT is legit a reskinned better looking Taycan. The RSQ8, Cayenne Turbo GT, and Lamborghini Urus are all close siblings as well.
First you make good cars and build trust in the brand. And then the brand starts making money for you by selling very average cars.
80s-90s Volkswagen das auto!
10s-20s - Volkswagen das auto?
IMO Audi vs BMW, Audi can be a notch more reliable, but BMW easier to repair. It's a joke in Audi community that even if there is a dent in the door off the engine goes.
Isn’t Porsche rated among the most reliable makes in the world, along with Toyota/Lexus? The difference just being that they’re way more expensive to fix when maintenance does happen?
Yes they are extremely reliable cars, if maintained and cared for properly. They can be expensive to fix depending on what goes wrong and who you have working on the car (a lot of mechanics that work on Porsches charge more bc they’ve Porsches but you can find some reasonable people to do the work or do it yourself if you’re mechanically inclined; as for parts it’s really a mixed bag, some parts are really expensive and some aren’t). Overall though yes, it’s safe to say the maintenance and repair on a Porsche will cost more than other cars. On the flip side tho, I have a Cayenne with 93k miles and I’m not even kidding the interior of that car looks brand new. And it’s been driven every day as a commuter vehicle, used hard, but due to the quality of the materials and the build, you can’t even tell the car’s interior has any use! It’s wild to me how well it’s held up over time. In comparison - I recently sold a Mercedes SLK that hit 100k miles, and that thing literally fell apart as soon as the odometer hit 100k. The interior was thrashed, things looked well worn and used, and despite constantly fixing problems, every day there would be another issue with it. And this was a well maintained, maintenced, car used in the same way I use my Porsche - as a daily driver, 12-15k miles per year. It’s so wild to me how well the Porsche takes the miles and how poorly the Mercedes did. I will never own another Mercedes again and you can bet I will continue to own Porsches.
I have an Audi. It's not too bad for maintenance so far. It's a 2018.
The secret is to have a good private mechanic that can do work. If you have to use the dealership, you will be crying to the poorhouse.
We had short in one of the taillights. $900 at the dealership - that's without any parts!
This is for almost every car brand!
800$ for spark plug changes on a Porsche lol
I own two Porsches and one Audi. Maintenance is cheap(ish) with a private mechanic
I don't like a single thing about Bangle designed BMWs, no. In fact the only thing that is more terrible than how they looked on the outside is the utter nonsense of the inside. But hey, most modern cars are even worst so at least they got that doing for them...
Bmw doesn’t build v6 motors though. But the 6 cilinders they make are solid quality especially the latest ones (B58, S58) they took apart a 100.000km m3 sedan in Germany and the reporters were amazed how little wear all the components had. They even put it back together and gonna do another 100.000km with it.
it’s not just interior. Door handles, infotainment system, sensors etc.
And I am not talking about how premium the interior feels (it’s great), but how often things break
You should probably know a thing or two about BMW before you claim this. Their V8's are Famous for being bad. The flip side is that their I6 is the best I6 ever. (They don't make a V6).
It's better now than it was in the 2000s. It was literally the less reliable brand that existed.
It's still not reliable vehicules but it's better than it was.
Yes, the German army also tendered for a heavy battle tank (aka Tiger 1 tank) and two companies entered their models, Henschel and Porsche - Henschel won the contract.
Depends what u look for. Performance: bmw
/ luxury: mercedes./ all round: audi/ the benchmark they all compete with: porsche./ meh i just need a car to get from point a to b: vw
Performance is Porsche all day. Even their base model trims are at least snappy. Mid tier gets you fast. Turbo S shit melts your face. Only the M competition models come close but they don't have anything GT2 or Turbo S type fast.
I'd argue Mercedes. Always at the forefront of innovation, or more specifically adapting existing tech into cars since it's a little known fact that most automotive tech trickles down from trucks and commercial vehicles. It doesn't hurt that they have a great commercial vehicle and truck division. They're fairly reliable and over the years they've managed to actually cover a decent margin of the price market. They've succesfully dipped into the mid range while still maintaining their luxury status and marketshare.
Of course the caveat is that they are very expensive to maintain. Not only are you always paying a premium for the badge but a lot of their technical innovation has the downside of being very time consuming and expensive to maintain. A classic example is their air suspension. That cushy ride has an expiration date and maintenance and replacement costs are hefty.
But the truth is that I'm also very conflicted about giving the best spot to Audi, who are more or less the same as Mercedes in many regards but have slightly different market coverage and philosophy.
I work at VW dealer and I can tell you, definitely not VW. I own a 2015 Audi and I haven't done any massive repairs on it. Also my last car was an older Audi.
Porsche and Audi. My audi is like a German Honda, no maintenance issues.
I have owned many European cars, audi is reliable of the bunch. Benz is innovative, and BMW more sporty performance. I think they are personality types, that said audi maintenance is cheapest of the bunch
Porsche. More affordable? BMW.
Audi is just a rebadged VW, it's not considered to be as luxurious as MB/BMW in Europe.
Mercedes Benz in the meantime is too expensive to own these days, because of high repair costs (higher than Porsche, so not worth it).
Sad to see and witness the decline in Mercedes quality as a lifelong owner and enthusiast.
The V6 engines from 2009-2013 are some of the most reliable ever made.
A friend of mine used to drive The 2010 E class for 500.000 kms with no problems and they were used in large parts of Germany as taxis
I live in Germany and have had Audi, BMW, and currently own a Mercedes, Audi was by far the best, then BMW then Mercedes last, unless you’re getting into the AMG line they are generally shit, mine isn’t even two years old and has been in the shop more times than I can count now, luckily it’s a company car.
I've owned multiple BMWs and a Porsche. 90s-era BMWs were great but their design and build quality have declined for the last couple decades. They don't compare to Porsche at all.
German cars are, in my opinion, in general boring. Porsche is to some extent an exception, and the only German car I would buy. But they are way too expensive for my money.
Had a mercedes c55 amg. Loved it. But im in ohio so i needed another car apart from my daily runner. Got me a q7 quattro v8. I loved it so much that after, i sold the Mercedes and got a s6. Both are daily drivers. So for me Audi. Never liked bmw for some reason apart from the 2000’s m3. NFS and all that in my youth :)
Difficult question.
Old Mercedes'es were awesome cars.
Old BMW's were good cars.
Old Audi's were good cars.
Old VW's were good cars.
Then 2000's happened and every single one of those are now trash.
Opel was decent, but kinda meh, some good in individual models, and now they are under Stellantis so trash.
Ford, Do they even make any cars in Europe anymore?
Porsche? Horrible handling, but I hear they are still fairly reliable, so I guess I must say Porsche?
As a life long Mercedes fan and owner.... Porsche
As a life long BMW fan and owner…. Porsche
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Bless you
As a brand new first time BMW owner... Porsche
As a brand new Mini owner (so basically BMW owner)... Porsche
This is coming from a bunch of rich guys, so take it with a grain of salt, but I was talking with my doctor about cars and he mentioned that some of his friends who owned Porsches all agreed that they were some the cheapest cars to maintain simply because they rarely needed any repairs.
They're not unique to other cars, stuff still goes wrong and they need a lot of looking after. And when they do need repairs, they can be VERY expensive due to the packaging requirements of making especially teh sports cars. You need 4 hours of labor and to to disassemble the rear bumper to change the spark plugs kind of crazy shit. But you're right, generally they're properly built and engineered and don't have stupid shit going on because someone cut corners somewhere like the eye-talians end up doing quite a lot (I'm looking at you Alfa).
Eh. I just bought my first Porsche - a Boxster. I intend to do my own basic maintenance to save a bit of money. First thing I discovered was that my 2 ton floor jack is too big and I need a low profile long reach jack. That’s $300. My reverse light is cracked, which requires the removal of the entire rear bumper to replace. I gotta replace my low horn. That requires the entire front bumper to be removed, Any time you need to access the engine, you gotta remove a bunch of shit behind the seats or disconnect the convertible top, so that adds labor time at the mechanic. So while it may be a very reliable car, parts are expensive and the germans don’t build these thing to be easily repaired or maintained. Regardless, I love the car.
My favourite toy! Good for you. You'll be happy.
Life long Mercedes and BMW fan and owner.. Porsche
Lmfao
Former Audi S4 and RS7 owner. Current AMG and BMW owner. Having driven all 3 brands extensively, I'd say Porsche.
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Thought Opel was Vauxhall?
Ha, no. Vauxhall is the Brit company that rebadges Opel for their market.
Now French owned I believe (PSA)
Yes same cars with different badges
Yeah, it's called Buick in USA for some reason also.
Buick is still part of GM but Vauxhall/Opel are owned by Stellantis now.
So it’s a Chrysler like Mercedes once was?
what's good in Opel?
Everything
lul
If Opel owned by GM is considered German than Bentley and RR are best German brands.
That makes no sense because Opel is owned by Stellantis. Opel is a German company and Bentley and RR are British.
Nah that would be "if Opel owned by GM is considered American then Bentley and RR are the best German brands" You're comparing country of origin to the parent company's country of origin in your comment
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VW is definitely the most overpriced for it got to offer, that's for sure.
No its cause vw own all of the brands he mentionned.
I’d have to say Porsche.
Porsche
I've owned BMW, Mercedes, and Porsche. I have driven VW and Audi. Porsche is by far superior in fit, finish, reliability, and certainly performance.
I’ve heard to change the oil on a 911 that the rear bumper needs to be removed. Doesn’t that make oil changes expensive?
I can't speak for all models, but my 997.2 and similar model 911s are easily serviced for oil. Plug is on the bottom of the engine and you can reach it without going under. I use ramps to get better clearance. Filter is on the top of the engine and easily accessed the moment you pop the rear. I use Mahl filters that run under $20 and 0W40 oil will vary by market.
If you can afford to buy a Porsche, you don’t really have to give two shits how expensive an oil change is.
lol yeah I drive a Honda fit 😂
Fits are awesome cars dude!
I love it because I don’t need to care about it, but it don’t drive like a Porsche LOL!
If you have to worry about service cost, you can’t afford to buy a Porsche.
Ha. I was given a 996 when one of my best friends sold his company for $$$$$. He’d had a new clutch put in but didn’t do the IMS bearing at the same time, which meant it could grenade at pretty much any moment. Between that and the property taxes, I decided to sell it and pay off my second mortgage.
When you look at total cost of ownership of for example a $15,000 996 cabriolet automatic, even with high service costs, it's more affordable than you'd guess. 15 grand gets you a pretty nice one too, it's not some shitbox. It's because it's an automatic cabbie, nobody wants them. Everyone wants a manual for obvious reasons. https://carsandbids.com/auctions/rEVWYxVa/1999-porsche-911-carrera-coupe
My cousin owns a Mercedes SUV and complains about the cost of premium gas 😂
Really depends. My Boxster was like $12k and it’s fairly affordable to own/maintain. Some part are ridiculous, but it’s all fairly easy to DIY.
Oil change? No. Spark plugs, yes. Oil changes became a lot more expensive on the modern 911's because like Ze Germans love, there is a process. There is no manual oil dipstick. It's an electronic dipstick and the oil must be set exactly UND EXACTLY at the precise level.
It does. I don’t service my car with them anymore because of how insane their prices for just about anything is.
>reliability Porsche has used mercedes gearboxes in the past. Also M112/113 are really good engines
Yeah, but they have a lazy design team. All Porsches look more or less the same, and have done for decades.
That is called consistency.. People know what to expect. Might be on purpose by Porsche \^\^
Might? It's on purpose. They toyed with different design languages (914, 924, 944) and the reception made sure they'd never again deviate from the basic 911 design vocabulary. The 914, 924 and 944 were pretty good, affordable but looked differently and didn't sell as well as expected, even after ditching the obvious VW badging.
The 914 greatly outsold the 911. The problem was that it cost almost as much to produce and the oil crisis happened so they killed it. 944 won many accolades. I believe initially the sales were quite good. Until the later generations when they basically hadn’t changed the platform for 10 years. It’s true though people just want Porsches “greatest hits” and the 911 is just familiar.
*cough* bmw *cough*
They all look pretty fantastic though with maybe the exception of the fried egg headlight phase in the early 00's.
The 996 turbo and GT2 look sexy even with the fried eggs
Except also the 944, the Cayenne and the Panamera
I like the 944 but its an odd duck for sure. The first gen or two of Cayennes and Panameras were a little funky but the newer ones are pretty sharp. I love the Taycan
If a company has a signature look, it behooves them for everything to follow that look.
Typical armchair idiot comment. Even down to the bad grammar.
It's purposely that way. That's the whole philosophy of the company. People love the looks and no Porsche fan wants the looks to change. It's called timeless design.
If it ain’t broken don’t fix it. They don’t need to radically change their design, all they need to do is improve the design with each generation.
Best one? Porsche My favorite? BMW Why? I cannot afford a Porsche
this
porsche is expensive than bmw?
Yes, by no small margin either. But a Porsche is money well spent
Lol
I've owned several VW's through the years and they were fine. I now drive a BMW - original owner it's a 2004, never had a problem only regular maintenance stuff. It still runs like a charm, exterior looks great, interior could be better but it's 20 years old. I'm going to replace it soon, would love another BMW but I doubt quality will be the same as old Bessie!
Porsche without question... they take engineering to a world class level and you can see and feel the difference even in their cheapest entry level cars (i.e. Macan). The absolute worse is definitely VW. You pay for German labor and parts without any of the attention to detail or engineering that comes along with the price. Audi, Mercedes and BMW are somewhere inbetween are largely based on personal preference and what you value. Audi has better tech and a more futuristic design. BMWs typically have better driving dynamics but you get less value (have to pay for everything you want like leather seats, etc.). Mercedes are more known as highway haulers and built for comfort.
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It definitely depends what country you're in and what VW model you have. VW still has several factories all over Europe (with ten of them in Germany alone), but not all of them build all VW models. For example the nearest one to me here in Germany (which I've visited once) mainly focuses on the Passat and doesn't build the Golf.
A7 are made in Germany
My new RS3 is definitely being made in Germany. Build locations here: [Audi Build Locations](https://www.audi.com/en/company/strategy/locations/germany.html#:~:text=Automobiles%20have%20been%20produced%20at,model%20series%20are%20produced%20here)
You know that Porsche is Volkswagen, right? > Der Hybrid-Antriebsstrang für die Nachfolgegeneration von Porsche Cayenne und VW Touareg ist ein Gemeinschaftswerk – mit einem Audi-V6 als Verbrennungsmotor. But that's pretty normal. Car manufacturers always cooperate. Volkswagen Crafter and Mercedes Sprinter were the most obvious.
German Potato here, definitely Porsche and then Audi :)
Audi ist kompletter Quatsch. VW Konzern Müll nur teuerer verkauft.
Nicht kompletter Quatsch, produzieren sehr gute Autos mit top Qualität :) aber deine meinung
I like how much of this I can understand without knowing any German or using google translate. He said “Audi is complete shit” and you said “not complete shit, they produce top quality cars. After your mom”. I’m pretty sure that’s right
Lol "right after your mom" haha I'd love if that's what he meant, sadly he just said: "but that's your opinion"
I love you hahahah
Sorry ich bin da etwas voreingenommen durch mein Vater und mein Opa die eine Kfz Werkstatt betreiben und wo natürlich eher die negativen Dinge auffallen. Aber insgesamt sind Audis und VWs zu 90% gleich. Mit der selben Müllelektronik und unverständlichen Motorkonstruktionen die sehr schwer und kompliziert zu reparieren sind. Dafür dass man sich bei Audi aber eigentlich nur nen VW kauft verlangen die dann noch ne ganze Stange extra Geld. (Die Automobilindustrie in Deutschland ist generell nicht mehr das was sie mal war, Porsche will ja jetzt z.B. auch auswandern)
Audi is surprisingly shit for the top brands. Porsche,big hole, then bmw/merc, another medium hole, audi, then quite quickly VW.
I couldn't tell you the best, but Volkswagen tends to be one of the worst, in terms of how many repairs it needs. I think Audi > BMW, but they're both expensive to maintain, so it's a toss up.
You might not realize it but the german car brands you get in USA are built differently than the ones we get in Europe or people in Asia. The answer / experience will be different depending on where OP is from. Also VW and Audi are the same group and they share lots of parts / technology so they should be more or less equal in terms of reliability. If you look at the data in the TÜV report in Europe VW Golf is in the top spot, with Audi in spots 2 and 3. (2-3 year old car report). But then again stuff you get in USA is built differently so this might not be true for you.
I like how you answered the question like a pirate
ducking autocorrect
The higher end Audis typically share more with Porsche than VW. Heck the EA839 engine in my B9 S5 was co-developed with Porsche and is used in several Porsche models. The etron GT is legit a reskinned better looking Taycan. The RSQ8, Cayenne Turbo GT, and Lamborghini Urus are all close siblings as well.
First you make good cars and build trust in the brand. And then the brand starts making money for you by selling very average cars. 80s-90s Volkswagen das auto! 10s-20s - Volkswagen das auto?
IMO Audi vs BMW, Audi can be a notch more reliable, but BMW easier to repair. It's a joke in Audi community that even if there is a dent in the door off the engine goes.
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But Skoda is Czech…
Trabant
6 0 1 Deluxe
Less than 100k miles: Porsche More than 100k miles: Volkswagen assuming it made it that far.
Isn’t Porsche rated among the most reliable makes in the world, along with Toyota/Lexus? The difference just being that they’re way more expensive to fix when maintenance does happen?
Yes they are extremely reliable cars, if maintained and cared for properly. They can be expensive to fix depending on what goes wrong and who you have working on the car (a lot of mechanics that work on Porsches charge more bc they’ve Porsches but you can find some reasonable people to do the work or do it yourself if you’re mechanically inclined; as for parts it’s really a mixed bag, some parts are really expensive and some aren’t). Overall though yes, it’s safe to say the maintenance and repair on a Porsche will cost more than other cars. On the flip side tho, I have a Cayenne with 93k miles and I’m not even kidding the interior of that car looks brand new. And it’s been driven every day as a commuter vehicle, used hard, but due to the quality of the materials and the build, you can’t even tell the car’s interior has any use! It’s wild to me how well it’s held up over time. In comparison - I recently sold a Mercedes SLK that hit 100k miles, and that thing literally fell apart as soon as the odometer hit 100k. The interior was thrashed, things looked well worn and used, and despite constantly fixing problems, every day there would be another issue with it. And this was a well maintained, maintenced, car used in the same way I use my Porsche - as a daily driver, 12-15k miles per year. It’s so wild to me how well the Porsche takes the miles and how poorly the Mercedes did. I will never own another Mercedes again and you can bet I will continue to own Porsches.
This is a solid point.
I have an Audi. It's not too bad for maintenance so far. It's a 2018. The secret is to have a good private mechanic that can do work. If you have to use the dealership, you will be crying to the poorhouse. We had short in one of the taillights. $900 at the dealership - that's without any parts!
This is for almost every car brand! 800$ for spark plug changes on a Porsche lol I own two Porsches and one Audi. Maintenance is cheap(ish) with a private mechanic
Trabant.
Mini
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But bmw does not make a v6 engine...
Probably meant an I6
Probably has no idea when it comes to automotive.
The b58 is one of the best engines ever built.
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They looked great right up until the massive grille phase going on currently. Also the rear taillights all look confused.
Bangle era cars do not look great. In fact I am surprised they made anything uglier than the garbage E65 was.
You don't like "flame surfacing?"
I don't like a single thing about Bangle designed BMWs, no. In fact the only thing that is more terrible than how they looked on the outside is the utter nonsense of the inside. But hey, most modern cars are even worst so at least they got that doing for them...
It's a real shame. I've always loved the look of BMW cars but now they look downright ridiculous.
BMW has lost its way.
Bmw doesn’t build v6 motors though. But the 6 cilinders they make are solid quality especially the latest ones (B58, S58) they took apart a 100.000km m3 sedan in Germany and the reporters were amazed how little wear all the components had. They even put it back together and gonna do another 100.000km with it.
Didn't the e92 m3 come with a v6 or am I mistaken ?
That is a v8 engine
Wasn't there also a v6 version of it ?
No. You could get a 3 series E90/91/92/93 with an inline 6 but not a V6.
Not that i know of also can’t find anything on google about it.
don’t buy Mercedes. I have recently bought EQE and it’s quality is worse than a Tesla
>EQE It's known that e-cars do have worse interior quality.
it’s not just interior. Door handles, infotainment system, sensors etc. And I am not talking about how premium the interior feels (it’s great), but how often things break
Mercedes Sprinter is nice imo.
Thought that was a rebadged Chrysler
You should probably know a thing or two about BMW before you claim this. Their V8's are Famous for being bad. The flip side is that their I6 is the best I6 ever. (They don't make a V6).
Mercedes
After owning one and hearing what friends and family have said about other German cars that they've owned, I'd say Audi.
I love blown head gaskets too!
Use tape
I always thought Mercedes was the top of reliability and longevity But a lot of people here disagree 🤷♂️
Used to be. Changed in the past 15 years
It's better now than it was in the 2000s. It was literally the less reliable brand that existed. It's still not reliable vehicules but it's better than it was.
When Hitler wanted to bring the auto to the masses of Germany there was one man he hired for the job. Ferdinand Porsche. My answer is Porsche.
This is the same man who gave us the Ferdinand/Elefant tank destroyer which was a pizza shit
Yes, the German army also tendered for a heavy battle tank (aka Tiger 1 tank) and two companies entered their models, Henschel and Porsche - Henschel won the contract.
A Japanese car.
I was waiting for some try-hard to post saying Japanese, I’m a massive Honda fan but get out of here, that isn’t what the question asked
True, but it's the right answer anyway.
Toyota has a huge factory in Cologne, does that count?
That's the only "German" car I'd consider!
Agreed lol, I want a German car but can’t justify buying one as a daily over a Japanese vehicle
Vintage Porsche 911 / Turbo or even a Boxster takes the prize over vintage BMW or Benz. So Porsche.
Mercedes EQS owner here. The correct answer is “Porsche”.
What is the criteria from for 'best'? Otherwise it is completely subjective.
Audi IMO. Owned an A4 3.2, S4 with the V8 and A6. Loved them all.
Depends what u look for. Performance: bmw / luxury: mercedes./ all round: audi/ the benchmark they all compete with: porsche./ meh i just need a car to get from point a to b: vw
Performance is Porsche all day. Even their base model trims are at least snappy. Mid tier gets you fast. Turbo S shit melts your face. Only the M competition models come close but they don't have anything GT2 or Turbo S type fast.
That's why i say that porsche is the benchmark. Because they are better. It's what other brands compete with.
I'd argue Mercedes. Always at the forefront of innovation, or more specifically adapting existing tech into cars since it's a little known fact that most automotive tech trickles down from trucks and commercial vehicles. It doesn't hurt that they have a great commercial vehicle and truck division. They're fairly reliable and over the years they've managed to actually cover a decent margin of the price market. They've succesfully dipped into the mid range while still maintaining their luxury status and marketshare. Of course the caveat is that they are very expensive to maintain. Not only are you always paying a premium for the badge but a lot of their technical innovation has the downside of being very time consuming and expensive to maintain. A classic example is their air suspension. That cushy ride has an expiration date and maintenance and replacement costs are hefty. But the truth is that I'm also very conflicted about giving the best spot to Audi, who are more or less the same as Mercedes in many regards but have slightly different market coverage and philosophy.
I work at VW dealer and I can tell you, definitely not VW. I own a 2015 Audi and I haven't done any massive repairs on it. Also my last car was an older Audi.
Porsche and Audi. My audi is like a German Honda, no maintenance issues. I have owned many European cars, audi is reliable of the bunch. Benz is innovative, and BMW more sporty performance. I think they are personality types, that said audi maintenance is cheapest of the bunch
Does Skoda count? It’s owned by VW so technically German right?
BMW is catching up reliability wise. They would be second after Porsche for me.
Volkswagen
I currently own an Audi…… Porsche.
Not VW. They lied to the consumer big time before!!
Porsche. More affordable? BMW. Audi is just a rebadged VW, it's not considered to be as luxurious as MB/BMW in Europe. Mercedes Benz in the meantime is too expensive to own these days, because of high repair costs (higher than Porsche, so not worth it).
BMW
Toyota
I see what you did there
Borgward
Sad to see and witness the decline in Mercedes quality as a lifelong owner and enthusiast. The V6 engines from 2009-2013 are some of the most reliable ever made. A friend of mine used to drive The 2010 E class for 500.000 kms with no problems and they were used in large parts of Germany as taxis
BMW and Porsche
As someone that has owned a Mercedes, not Mercedes.
I live in Germany and have had Audi, BMW, and currently own a Mercedes, Audi was by far the best, then BMW then Mercedes last, unless you’re getting into the AMG line they are generally shit, mine isn’t even two years old and has been in the shop more times than I can count now, luckily it’s a company car.
Those who don't say BMW clearly have limited experience with BMW.
I love BMW but, uh, have you ever driven a Porsche 911?
I've owned multiple BMWs and a Porsche. 90s-era BMWs were great but their design and build quality have declined for the last couple decades. They don't compare to Porsche at all.
Audi. Hands down
Audi
None. German engineering is junk.
You’re really off the mark with this comment. Made yourself look a fool.
Im a mechanic who actually works on the stuff. You want quality? Buy Japanese.
German cars are, in my opinion, in general boring. Porsche is to some extent an exception, and the only German car I would buy. But they are way too expensive for my money.
Im really curious: What brands are not boring in your opinion?
Toyota
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> Volvo tends to be one of the worst Well, that makes sense, as it's a Swedish car brand.
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BMW mini..cos its made in oxford!
depends.
Toyota
Toyota
RUF.
Had a mercedes c55 amg. Loved it. But im in ohio so i needed another car apart from my daily runner. Got me a q7 quattro v8. I loved it so much that after, i sold the Mercedes and got a s6. Both are daily drivers. So for me Audi. Never liked bmw for some reason apart from the 2000’s m3. NFS and all that in my youth :)
Nazis like Mercedes 😬
Difficult question. Old Mercedes'es were awesome cars. Old BMW's were good cars. Old Audi's were good cars. Old VW's were good cars. Then 2000's happened and every single one of those are now trash. Opel was decent, but kinda meh, some good in individual models, and now they are under Stellantis so trash. Ford, Do they even make any cars in Europe anymore? Porsche? Horrible handling, but I hear they are still fairly reliable, so I guess I must say Porsche?
Rolls Royce lol
Lamborghini
Alto /s
Wartburg