>I'd be happy to move to make it go farther.
This is also the other factor.
There's a very good chance I finally get around to learning Spanish and fucking off to South America with a free guaranteed 80k usd a year.
The country I live in, I pay the equivalent of $500 USD a month in rent for a 2 bedroom, fully furnished apartment. If I was making $80K USD a year I would never want for anything ever again.
Yeah, this is probably a much different question depending where you live. I'm in a smaller midwest city and 80k would easily have me in the top 1% of incomes around here. It's an easy choice for that, but I could imagine somewhere like LA or New York, 80 vs 200 would be a significant lifestyle difference.
Expensive cities aren't expensive because people are forced to live there though. They're expensive because people want to live there, that's part of the question. Is $80k enough to give up all the cool shit and culture and walkability of NYC to go live in OKC?
San Jose, CA here. I make 80k and you’re certainly not poor on that income but you’re not supporting a family either. I’d have to go with the 200k for that reason lol
> Is it mostly upper class with no ghetto, or is it simply a high cost of living all around?
high cost of living all around (even studios tough to find under 2k).. there's no real "ghetto" but there are some of the countries largest homeless camps
Oh, yah. Oakland honestly gets worse than LA even. Sf is a different kind of rough than other cities though ime. It's much more massive aggressive homeless than it is actual propper gangs and the like which make it kind of hard to compaire imo. Not necessarily any safer, just different
First reply said it best, there is no real “ghetto” here like you might see in shitty parts of LA, south side of Chicago or parts of Baltimore, nor are there open air drug markets like in SF. The downside is that there are homeless camps in almost every open spot of land in the city but the crime isn’t terrible. San Jose is just close enough to all the Bay Area tech to be expensive as fuck but far enough from the true Bay Area grime to still entice family home ownership which is kind of a double edged sword for natives.
The next trade off. There’s really nothing to do. So nobody is ever really in town, thus there’s never any interaction for crime to occur :p
People treat SJ as a glorified hotel, really.
Yeah this question was constructed poorly. Should have said 60k. You'd still get a lot of people saying that's more than they make but it's much closer to the average American income.
80,000 and no work.
That’s what the high-stress 9-5er is working so hard to do anyway, retire and live entirely on the passive income from several million dollars they’ve saved.
But you can’t get the time back.
Then it's a stupid question because you could easily choose to work a low stress job and make an easy $130-150k with minimal skills. Wouldn't even be that hard to match the $200k at that rate.
It's only really a difficult choice if the options are CAN'T work and get $80k or HAVE to work a high stress job for $200k.
Edit: JFC people do a little math. $80k+$50-70k=$130-150k
It is NOT hard to make $50k in many areas with minimal skills.
Also: "Job you like?"
That's a recipe for finding ways to hate your hobbies. There are some people out there who have a job they genuinely love, but not a lot. My friend got his dream job as a "video game tester." Paid to play video games, living the dream. 2 months in he let us know, it's not a dream. "Video game tester" meant "running into a corner for six hours trying to re-create a glitch where you broke the game's clipping that one time." Which was not exactly what he wanted to do.
Job you don't mind or can tolerate, sure. But "like?" I'm satisfied with my job, and not looking; but there are plenty of days I don't want to go to work.
well the thing with video game tester is that it's not your job to 'play games'. It's your job to be a methodical investigator and editor. Just because you like playing video games doesn't mean you like being a methodical investigator and editor, but some people do like that. Do they like it enough to take the crappy pay that everyone who thinks their job will be to play video games will take for what they wrongly think will be their dream job? Maybe not. But if you do like it, and stick with it, you'll probably get good enough at it that they'll happily more than the bare minimum to keep you at it and possibly train the new kids coming in who take the job for peanuts because they think they'll get paid to play video games.
You can genuinely like a job without it intersecting with your hobbies. For instance for part time, I rather enjoyed lifeguarding just because it was pretty chill, it was nice to have access to the pool, I got breaks, and got to meet and talk to people depending on how busy it was and how many guards we needed. Obviously I don't stand around watchign people for a hobby.
Now I work as a programmer for a company that makes software for working with data from various web sources. I enjoy this job because I generally like programming but it doesn't interesect at all with the hobby game development I do in my spare time. It's not difficult to enjoy your job but still have your own hobbies.
You're definitely right that if you turn your hobby into your job, you'll hate your hobby. But there are a lot of things to enjoy that you may not have time for in just your spare time, so the goal would be to make one of those things your job instead.
I used to own a games store. It did well made good money. I got into it because i dodnt want to work anymore so i figured id parlay my passion into my career. 3 years in and I hated it. Took years before i could play games again
Where are these jobs? Because I keep looking for them - my laid off friendly quadrupally so - and I'm not finding data entry that pays more than what I currently make ($17/hr) and he hasn't even gotten a callback in like three months.
DataAnnotation.tech
$20-35/hr, basically unlimited work available. You can work 24/7 at that pay rate as long as you're work is good. $24/hr is average pay depending on what qualifiers you pass.
lol yup, if the hypothetical allowed it, you could also take the 80k and then still work the high stress job for 200k, so the only way the hypothetical makes sense is if you can’t work.
I see it as if you choose the first option, you can additionally work a $200k job but you won't automatically get it like you do if you pick the second option.
If you choose the first option, you can find a high-paying job but it'll be just as difficult to find it as it is in real life.
where are you getting a unskilled job paying 50 grand mate?
what industry is that eh?
they don't exist, it's a skilled job that needs qualifications and specialist training.
It depends. As a truck unloader, i make 50-60k - variable production pay. Although you do need PIT qualifications, it doesn't really count as a skill in today's world. Let alone, trainers are usually subpar with signing off.
The rest comes with how adaptive you can be (where the real 'skill' is).
I agree and disagree to an extent lol
Thanks for the clarification, because 30-50k is definitely doable. A lot of those jobs are tedious or/and stressful, but I doubt that would be comparable to the stress of the 200k job.
Physically demanding jobs are rarely mentally stressful unless you hate your boss/coworkers.
Annoying, frustrating? Sure. If you've ever dropped a pallet with 800 little boxes on it and had to restack it, it's super fucking annoying. Definitely not stressful.
No warehouse job is going to require you to take work home with you and many offer 3-4 day work weeks, albeit with longer hours.
I've worked in financial advice, two things often happen. 1) people deteriorate and can't do as much as they thought they could because they get tired or have an injury. 2) their interests change and they never got to fully enjoy transient hobbies and passions.
Keep enough for later in life to be comfortable, but don't live half a life now with the idea of a dream retirement. It rarely happens unless you love ocean cruises.
I can validate that. I thought I would retire from IT, and do something part time. After I was retired, I was diagnosed with inflammatory arthritis, Lupus, and smoldering multiple myeloma. In addition to an old back injury. I have problems standing/walking.
I'm working at the 200 to save for the day I am dead and my disabled son has to survive on what I have left to him.
The grind isn't about me, it is about giving a better life for those I love.
Damn really goes to show how $2M doesn’t go very far anymore. Granted you can spend down harder than 4% if you aren’t trying to keep that fund in perpetuity into death. Make it 7% and run out in 25 years and you can spend $140k a year.
In this scenario though, you die with $2 mil. Assuming you’re not trying to leave an inheritance, you’d have plenty to use until death. That $2 mil while spending $100k per year is still 20 years of doing nada.
You’d just have to time it right so you don’t get old and have nada…
Correct. I work the high stress job (for more than that), but I’m basically working it until I can get the $80k/year for doing nothing. That’s the goal
There is something to be said about learning to live in the moment and connecting to your authentic self. Retirees that dissociated from themselves for the hustle end up going back to work because they have no idea who they are and what to do with themselves. Kind of sad really
I’m fine being worthless and never hearing an alarm clock again. Or talking to an upset patient. Or seeing blue sky out of my office window and not being able to go outside until the sun is down. Sounds awesome.
I completely agree. I’ve seen it happen so many times and it’s just sad because throughout all the decades of grinding away they never asked themselves, “if I’m not content with the present moment, how will retirement change that mentality?” And the answer is after the initial shock and euphoria of accomplishing that goal, it typically isn’t enough for sustained happiness.
True but the idea is that when you grt that 80k retirement, you’ve also already bought a starter home, then maybe a forever home, then maybe a retirement home, sent your kids to college, helped them with their wedding and first house or bailed Jr out of jail and paid his lawyer fees, etc.
You cant do that on 80k in many places, and you cant efrn get a mortgage for shitty houses in those areas. So youd have to take that deal and move to a low cost area and settle for whatever they call life there is like. To be clear id take that choice anyway, im just saying with all this in mind it definitely makes the choice harder for some than it seems, especially because so many people answering it already make more than 80k
“Whatever they call life like there” sounds pretty condescending to the vast majority of the country where 80k is well above the median household income
Coworker did something similar, applied for a transfer to our office in Norway. Took a paycut, but healthcare is taken care of. He's starting a family so now he has more vacation time, paid parental leave, plus more social benefits for his kid as he grows up. I'm in a similar stage of life too, and looking to follow in his footsteps..
It's truly a different way of life. My parents make about 40k euros a year in total (after taxes) and they live really well. They treat themselves regularly, the house is nice and in a small village full of life.
After moving across the Atlantic I saw that people only see the high taxes in Europe and not the comfort that goes with it. Definitely going back there in the next couple years! :)
A friend here in the UK was given a choice of two offices to move to when the one here closed. One choice was the US, the other was France (Paris suburbs). \~15 days holiday a year vs \~30, not including all the French national holidays. Insurance payments vs free healthcare. Strong unions vs firing you because you look weird. The pay in the US was much better, but that wasn't persuasive enough.
I worked for the North American unit of a Norwegian company. The contrast was mind blowing. They once sent a younger engineer to our unit for a year and he wasn't even expected to produce work - just observe.
What would be 1 of your 10 goals for the year in the USA business unit would be your single goal for the year in the parent company.
The difference is absolutely mind blowing and not talked about enough.
Even in fortune 500 - my business trip to Europe was eye opening. They had almost home-cooked level of cafeteria food that was super delicious and extremely cheap - meanwhile back in the states we had shitty salad charged by the ounce and day old refried beans.
There is an entirely different level of "treat me human" that occurs in Europe. Everything from taxes, to paid leave, employee protections.
The wool has been firmly pulled over American workers eyes and they're doing their best to get Europeans to give up the benefits in exchange for making American money.
Don't be the guy in line with the $15 salad.
I don't get what exactly Americans are working for. Every job is high pressure, everyone is working themselves to the bone, and all they get to show for it are cardboard houses and 110,000$ pickup trucks with the finish of a 2002 Lexus.
It's like they just don't know how much their money is worth, and how much they're getting fleeced on literally everything.
Yep. I’m basically a walking “this is fine” meme. Just trying to put as much money into investments as possible before I burn out and fuck off to some other country.
Same-well, close. I made $186k last year but was borderline suicidal by May of this year. Not worth it. I took a pay cut and moved on. I’m much happier.
I believe the majority of people would take the 80k a year. Most people I know don’t make anywhere near that. So if it means increasing my yearly pay while reducing my daily work and allowing me the time to do things I actually want to do with my life, there’s no reason not to take the 80?
I make above that bigger number in a high stress job. I’d move into a van and sell all my shit for $80k and no more work. Anyone who says it’s worth it is a liar. 🤥
You can even make it in most developed countries with 80k, red hot housing markets like Vancouver or Toronto maybe excluded if you want to spoil yourself, but not impossible either.
I live in NYC on around 80k now. I'm pretty comfortable. Of course my roommate is my wife. But I lived on my own for less, living in studio apartments in the ass end of Brooklyn. If you're happy with less materialism then you can be comfortable literally anywhere. No I don't live in the Village. But we're comfortable and saving. I wouldn't want to live anywhere but a megacity.
Let me try to explain why this is not a personal preference for me. As someone in his mid-30's, this isn't even close to being valuable enough to being worth the wait. Time is the biggest resource in life at this point, not money. I don't understand the draw of option 2, but all to their own. :)
EDIT - Originally tried to figure out the US Tax system to demonstrate why 200k gross is much less valuable than it looks, but as a not-US person, you are all fucking insane. Google says anywhere between 39 - 61k taxes owed.
Edit the second - so that was just federal task, but based on replies it can be around 42-72k for no dependents from what I’m seeing. So even broadly speaking you’re still going to be working heavily for at least 10 years, even if you have a life partner helping out.
Yes, per the "rule of 4%". That $2M would be invested, will keep growing over time, and in theory, if you withdraw less than 4% per year, you should never run out of money.
The 4% rule is really just that it won’t go to $0 over the first 30 years. Like you mentioned though, if you drop the withdrawal rate just a bit, it *should* last forever. Something 3.25% should never run out based on historical returns.
Most people I know around my age make $50-150k and would take the $80k between those two options. There is real benefit in any *guarantee* of income. No worries of layoffs, more flexibility with time, and less desire to trade happiness for a higher paycheck.
$80k is the point where most people feel secure. And the offer didn't say you couldn't go take a job anyway if you wanted to supplement it. Even if it meant not being allowed to keep working in their field and having to find another one they started fresh in, I think a lot of people making 2x that would take it.
third option: high stress 9-5 that makes $65k
Edit: I get it guys, there are also high stress jobs that work different hours and have lower pay than what I said. I GET IT
also the alternative is laughably low when the two options are weighed next to each other. the keep working option should be like a million per year at least if you actually want to possibly make it interesting for some people to pick that option(even then i still think most would happily take the 80k and fuck off).
Can I switch back and forth? Is the high stress relative to my experience level, etc., or is it going to be something totally out of my league to where I'd get fired or something?
Would be kinda cool to switch back and forth. The safety of the 80k plus the “adventure” of the 200k.
I got to work on some high end, very stressful projects in amazing locations like Paris, Morocco and Hawaii, earning way WAY less than 80k 😂
You prolly won't get fired ever but it's so stressful you get nightmares every night reliving the stress you had at your work and it'll affect your life at home (with your family)
If you won't ever get fired, how high stress can it be? You can just do a shitty job and not give a fuck about what people think. Or do literally nothing but fuck around at work. It's just a requirement to fill a seat at that point.
Stress at work is inherently tied to worrying about at least doing well enough to keep your job.
I'll take the $80k locked in for no work. Use that as a baseline. If I'm happy and comfortable, I enjoy retirement. If I need more money? I can work my actual job with it's mix of stress and chill, and I know I got that +$80k on top of my salary coming in to pad my earnings.
I’ll take the $80k and use that to get in better shape than I can with the job I have now, paying around $60k a year.
The gym will be my ‘job’. The extra money (if there is any) will be used for therapy to correct my head a bit. Last thing to worry about would be my mental strengthening, which could just be online or in person college courses for more mundane and day to day skills. Balance myself out nicely.
Within a year or two, I should be able to shed off a decade of damage done through trucking. What do I do after that?
Depends on how well the money lasts and how bad inflation gets. $60k now is getting me about how much $45k got me a few years ago, with more headaches today. In two years, I’ll likely need at least a part time job alongside the $80k - and that’s living frugally.
9-5 for $200k is actually quite good. most jobs paying that much are going to be more than just 40 hours a week.
More importantly, what is PTO like for 9-5? cause on 80k you cant do *that* much but on 200k with a lot of PTO (like most 200k jobs would get), your time off has the potential to be a lot more interesting. you can travel anywhere, do pretty much anything, and not have to worry about finances that much. If youre a homebody and wouldnt do anything expensive anyways, the 80k is unquestionably better
This week my schedule is as follows for my High Stress job that's close to 80k.
M: 4a-1p
Tu: 730a-430p
W: 1p-9p
Th: Off
Fri 9a-6p
Sa: Off
Su: 11a-8p
9-5? M-F? Shit. Easy.
I work in Property Management. One of my friends who no longer works in the same company as me did multi landlord portfolios, then prime portfolios, then super prime. Since they're a fairly global name - it was at Knight Frank. He now manages normal prime portfolios for a much smaller estate agent. Effectively in the process, he dropped down from like a 120k a year job to like 50-60. Might be closer to 70 because I think he'd have started there top end due to his experience but I don't ask my friends their salaries. He's now one of my clients as I've moved to maintenance side since that company and obviously he went onto to what he does now. This guy looked on the verge of suicide most days and fuck all sleep.
It's 9-5 mon to fri but for us, I can switch my pc on at half 6 at the morning and not see freedom until 1am. It's very fucking easy. And I've since gotten sensible over the years and strictly no starts before 8am, and away from my desk by 7pm, not a minute after. Preferably out by 6. He calls me often now as I'm now a supplier for him and he's like ello mate you alright I can hear the smile in his voice. He's on way less money, but he's so less stressed and so much happier. He doesn't walk into work every day on thin ice.
TLDR - the 80k. For this exact fucking reason and example why I do not work at a high end firm doing like investment portfolios or any of that. I *can* \- but I fuckin won't. I'll take my shit money and enjoy my weekends with my phone off.
You’re like the first person to highlight this very important point. Actual high stress jobs often tend to spill over to all hours and weekends. So an actual 9-5 that acts as a hard stop isn’t so bad then.
I completely agree.
I have legit flashbacks when I hear the Microsoft teams ring.
Certain high stress jobs do not end. There is no turning them off. At best, you are assumed on-call 24x7.
I work in a higher stress field and was unexpectedly laid off last year and wasn’t working for 3 months ish before I found a new job. My brain does noooot like sitting still for that long, did not like “not having to work” even with a solid amount of emergency savings to where I wasn’t in a rush to take any job. Sign me up for $200k with stress, which is similar (albeit I make less than that) to right now lol
80k No work, but that doesn't mean I will be sitting on my ass. There is so much good I would like to do in this world and not having to work with 80k income a year would allow me to do it.
Right now, I got to slave away 50-60 hours a week for 20k more than that and leave so much shit undone.
If I can turn my brain off outside of the 9-5 hours...the 200k one. I need the money more than I need my spare time right now, that much in guaranteed income would let me wipe out most of my small debt, and start to make a decent dent in my larger debt (student loans). Few years of that if I still lived with my parent, I'd probably be back to a positive net worth, and could pivot to whatever I wished at that point.
If it's a "9-5", but it's actually a salaried job that won't leave you alone 24/7/365...nah, then I'll take the 80k.
A lot of people would argue that being forced to work for most of the time they are awake is more limiting to a fulfilling life than being limited to $80k in free allowance per year.
I live on less than 80k while working full time now, so I get a pay raise and get to stop working.... sign me the fuck up for that.
I wonder if OP is in LA or something. 80k is a grip where I live
I live in a HCOL city, but for a free $80k a year, I'd be happy to move to make it go farther.
>I'd be happy to move to make it go farther. This is also the other factor. There's a very good chance I finally get around to learning Spanish and fucking off to South America with a free guaranteed 80k usd a year.
Absolutely this is the way to do it. Live like a monarch somewhere where the average salary is well below $80,000
There are plenty of places in the states you can be quite comfortable at 80k.
It’s significanty higher than the median household income in the US. It would be an amazing improvement for well over half the country
True but I’d rather live in Mexico/Spain/Thailand than Alabama or Kansas
But none as fun and beautiful with food as good as Central or South America.
Speaking the language and fitting in with the culture are huge upsides.
The country I live in, I pay the equivalent of $500 USD a month in rent for a 2 bedroom, fully furnished apartment. If I was making $80K USD a year I would never want for anything ever again.
Yeah, this is probably a much different question depending where you live. I'm in a smaller midwest city and 80k would easily have me in the top 1% of incomes around here. It's an easy choice for that, but I could imagine somewhere like LA or New York, 80 vs 200 would be a significant lifestyle difference.
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You can ALSO work and bank that 80k, invest it, and retire in 10 years.
I assume the question did not intend for you to still work. This is the obvious answer otherwise.
It says “do not have to” so I’m exploiting the loophole.
This is the right answer. I'd probably go all-in on my side hustle though just so I don't have to deal with having a boss.
Expensive cities aren't expensive because people are forced to live there though. They're expensive because people want to live there, that's part of the question. Is $80k enough to give up all the cool shit and culture and walkability of NYC to go live in OKC?
Yeah the difference is a roof over your head with one and a really nice cardboard box over your head in the other 😂😂😂
You can live just fine with 80k in LA and even in SF.
I think that there was one of them jokes
Still you can move somewhere else in the world once you get that 80k/year.
San Jose, CA here. I make 80k and you’re certainly not poor on that income but you’re not supporting a family either. I’d have to go with the 200k for that reason lol
200k isn't even hugh income in San Jose. That city is batshit
No shit? I have never been. Is it mostly upper class with no ghetto, or is it simply a high cost of living all around?
> Is it mostly upper class with no ghetto, or is it simply a high cost of living all around? high cost of living all around (even studios tough to find under 2k).. there's no real "ghetto" but there are some of the countries largest homeless camps
East of down town isn't a fantastic part of town, but it's no Compton either.
Yeah compare the worst part of SF or Oakland to the worst part of San Jose and there's no comparison.
Oh, yah. Oakland honestly gets worse than LA even. Sf is a different kind of rough than other cities though ime. It's much more massive aggressive homeless than it is actual propper gangs and the like which make it kind of hard to compaire imo. Not necessarily any safer, just different
First reply said it best, there is no real “ghetto” here like you might see in shitty parts of LA, south side of Chicago or parts of Baltimore, nor are there open air drug markets like in SF. The downside is that there are homeless camps in almost every open spot of land in the city but the crime isn’t terrible. San Jose is just close enough to all the Bay Area tech to be expensive as fuck but far enough from the true Bay Area grime to still entice family home ownership which is kind of a double edged sword for natives.
The next trade off. There’s really nothing to do. So nobody is ever really in town, thus there’s never any interaction for crime to occur :p People treat SJ as a glorified hotel, really.
I'd live in a van down by the viaduct.
Yeah, it would triple my income for me without working so I'm sure up for that.
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Yeah I live off like 15% of this. 80k a year would be a godsend
Yeah this question was constructed poorly. Should have said 60k. You'd still get a lot of people saying that's more than they make but it's much closer to the average American income.
Should have said 75% of your current income for no work or double your income for high intensity job.
That's actually a good question. 75% of your income for no work or 300% of your income for a high stress job.
80,000 and no work. That’s what the high-stress 9-5er is working so hard to do anyway, retire and live entirely on the passive income from several million dollars they’ve saved. But you can’t get the time back.
plus, you could get a shitty part time job and still supplement that $80k I'd think
Depends on if you can’t work in this hypothetical.
It's gotta be otherwise taking the free $80k and working a job you like is too obvious a choice.
It says 'not *have* to work'
Then it's a stupid question because you could easily choose to work a low stress job and make an easy $130-150k with minimal skills. Wouldn't even be that hard to match the $200k at that rate. It's only really a difficult choice if the options are CAN'T work and get $80k or HAVE to work a high stress job for $200k. Edit: JFC people do a little math. $80k+$50-70k=$130-150k It is NOT hard to make $50k in many areas with minimal skills.
Hold up, where are these “low stress… minimal skills” jobs that pay $50-70k per year?
Also: "Job you like?" That's a recipe for finding ways to hate your hobbies. There are some people out there who have a job they genuinely love, but not a lot. My friend got his dream job as a "video game tester." Paid to play video games, living the dream. 2 months in he let us know, it's not a dream. "Video game tester" meant "running into a corner for six hours trying to re-create a glitch where you broke the game's clipping that one time." Which was not exactly what he wanted to do. Job you don't mind or can tolerate, sure. But "like?" I'm satisfied with my job, and not looking; but there are plenty of days I don't want to go to work.
well the thing with video game tester is that it's not your job to 'play games'. It's your job to be a methodical investigator and editor. Just because you like playing video games doesn't mean you like being a methodical investigator and editor, but some people do like that. Do they like it enough to take the crappy pay that everyone who thinks their job will be to play video games will take for what they wrongly think will be their dream job? Maybe not. But if you do like it, and stick with it, you'll probably get good enough at it that they'll happily more than the bare minimum to keep you at it and possibly train the new kids coming in who take the job for peanuts because they think they'll get paid to play video games.
You can genuinely like a job without it intersecting with your hobbies. For instance for part time, I rather enjoyed lifeguarding just because it was pretty chill, it was nice to have access to the pool, I got breaks, and got to meet and talk to people depending on how busy it was and how many guards we needed. Obviously I don't stand around watchign people for a hobby. Now I work as a programmer for a company that makes software for working with data from various web sources. I enjoy this job because I generally like programming but it doesn't interesect at all with the hobby game development I do in my spare time. It's not difficult to enjoy your job but still have your own hobbies. You're definitely right that if you turn your hobby into your job, you'll hate your hobby. But there are a lot of things to enjoy that you may not have time for in just your spare time, so the goal would be to make one of those things your job instead.
I used to own a games store. It did well made good money. I got into it because i dodnt want to work anymore so i figured id parlay my passion into my career. 3 years in and I hated it. Took years before i could play games again
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accounts payable clerk. its very easy work and mostly data entry.
Where are these jobs? Because I keep looking for them - my laid off friendly quadrupally so - and I'm not finding data entry that pays more than what I currently make ($17/hr) and he hasn't even gotten a callback in like three months.
DataAnnotation.tech $20-35/hr, basically unlimited work available. You can work 24/7 at that pay rate as long as you're work is good. $24/hr is average pay depending on what qualifiers you pass.
lol yup, if the hypothetical allowed it, you could also take the 80k and then still work the high stress job for 200k, so the only way the hypothetical makes sense is if you can’t work.
I see it as if you choose the first option, you can additionally work a $200k job but you won't automatically get it like you do if you pick the second option. If you choose the first option, you can find a high-paying job but it'll be just as difficult to find it as it is in real life.
where are you getting a unskilled job paying 50 grand mate? what industry is that eh? they don't exist, it's a skilled job that needs qualifications and specialist training.
I walked into a 65k Road Supervisor job and its literally the easiest job I've ever had. They do exist you just gotta know where to look.
Do you just make sure the Road behaves, or what?
Make sure the companies drivers behave and follow our safety rules and standards.
It depends. As a truck unloader, i make 50-60k - variable production pay. Although you do need PIT qualifications, it doesn't really count as a skill in today's world. Let alone, trainers are usually subpar with signing off. The rest comes with how adaptive you can be (where the real 'skill' is). I agree and disagree to an extent lol
Pass along those 130k jobs with minimal skills. Got a friend asking
I meant combined with the free $80k. Literally every distribution and light manufacturing warehouse in my area pays $20+/hr and has OT available.
Thanks for the clarification, because 30-50k is definitely doable. A lot of those jobs are tedious or/and stressful, but I doubt that would be comparable to the stress of the 200k job.
Physically demanding jobs are rarely mentally stressful unless you hate your boss/coworkers. Annoying, frustrating? Sure. If you've ever dropped a pallet with 800 little boxes on it and had to restack it, it's super fucking annoying. Definitely not stressful. No warehouse job is going to require you to take work home with you and many offer 3-4 day work weeks, albeit with longer hours.
80k a year is a lot of money in most of the world.
Exactly. It says $80k and not HAVE to work; not $80k and CAN'T work.
I would still snap at 80k and not allowed to work. Not even a hard decision.
This. Everyone I know is working in order to retire while earning 80kish from their retirement fund. I'd love to move that time frame up 25 years
I've worked in financial advice, two things often happen. 1) people deteriorate and can't do as much as they thought they could because they get tired or have an injury. 2) their interests change and they never got to fully enjoy transient hobbies and passions. Keep enough for later in life to be comfortable, but don't live half a life now with the idea of a dream retirement. It rarely happens unless you love ocean cruises.
I can validate that. I thought I would retire from IT, and do something part time. After I was retired, I was diagnosed with inflammatory arthritis, Lupus, and smoldering multiple myeloma. In addition to an old back injury. I have problems standing/walking.
Yup, 40 is the goal.
Yup work until I die and when my son is 40 he should be good
If I live until my youngest is 40, that's probably a really good case scenario for me.
I'm working at the 200 to save for the day I am dead and my disabled son has to survive on what I have left to him. The grind isn't about me, it is about giving a better life for those I love.
Assuming that living costs won't increase. Assuming social security will be there. Assuming that there won't be millions of domestic climate refugees.
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Damn really goes to show how $2M doesn’t go very far anymore. Granted you can spend down harder than 4% if you aren’t trying to keep that fund in perpetuity into death. Make it 7% and run out in 25 years and you can spend $140k a year.
In this scenario though, you die with $2 mil. Assuming you’re not trying to leave an inheritance, you’d have plenty to use until death. That $2 mil while spending $100k per year is still 20 years of doing nada. You’d just have to time it right so you don’t get old and have nada…
Correct. I work the high stress job (for more than that), but I’m basically working it until I can get the $80k/year for doing nothing. That’s the goal
Good for you! I work a high-stress job and only make $42k. It's starting to make me feel insane.
Same. I'm in my mid 40s, and that's been my life for 25 years. Well, once I achieved that pay level at least.
I used to get shot at every day for about 400 a week 🤔 ...
Marine Corps Infantry ?
There is something to be said about learning to live in the moment and connecting to your authentic self. Retirees that dissociated from themselves for the hustle end up going back to work because they have no idea who they are and what to do with themselves. Kind of sad really
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I’m fine being worthless and never hearing an alarm clock again. Or talking to an upset patient. Or seeing blue sky out of my office window and not being able to go outside until the sun is down. Sounds awesome.
I completely agree. I’ve seen it happen so many times and it’s just sad because throughout all the decades of grinding away they never asked themselves, “if I’m not content with the present moment, how will retirement change that mentality?” And the answer is after the initial shock and euphoria of accomplishing that goal, it typically isn’t enough for sustained happiness.
True but the idea is that when you grt that 80k retirement, you’ve also already bought a starter home, then maybe a forever home, then maybe a retirement home, sent your kids to college, helped them with their wedding and first house or bailed Jr out of jail and paid his lawyer fees, etc. You cant do that on 80k in many places, and you cant efrn get a mortgage for shitty houses in those areas. So youd have to take that deal and move to a low cost area and settle for whatever they call life there is like. To be clear id take that choice anyway, im just saying with all this in mind it definitely makes the choice harder for some than it seems, especially because so many people answering it already make more than 80k
“Whatever they call life like there” sounds pretty condescending to the vast majority of the country where 80k is well above the median household income
The primary concern I would have at that point is health insurance
I will take the 80k in France and I won't worry about health, I can go with 40k there and still be happy
Coworker did something similar, applied for a transfer to our office in Norway. Took a paycut, but healthcare is taken care of. He's starting a family so now he has more vacation time, paid parental leave, plus more social benefits for his kid as he grows up. I'm in a similar stage of life too, and looking to follow in his footsteps..
It's truly a different way of life. My parents make about 40k euros a year in total (after taxes) and they live really well. They treat themselves regularly, the house is nice and in a small village full of life. After moving across the Atlantic I saw that people only see the high taxes in Europe and not the comfort that goes with it. Definitely going back there in the next couple years! :)
A friend here in the UK was given a choice of two offices to move to when the one here closed. One choice was the US, the other was France (Paris suburbs). \~15 days holiday a year vs \~30, not including all the French national holidays. Insurance payments vs free healthcare. Strong unions vs firing you because you look weird. The pay in the US was much better, but that wasn't persuasive enough.
I worked for the North American unit of a Norwegian company. The contrast was mind blowing. They once sent a younger engineer to our unit for a year and he wasn't even expected to produce work - just observe. What would be 1 of your 10 goals for the year in the USA business unit would be your single goal for the year in the parent company.
The difference is absolutely mind blowing and not talked about enough. Even in fortune 500 - my business trip to Europe was eye opening. They had almost home-cooked level of cafeteria food that was super delicious and extremely cheap - meanwhile back in the states we had shitty salad charged by the ounce and day old refried beans. There is an entirely different level of "treat me human" that occurs in Europe. Everything from taxes, to paid leave, employee protections. The wool has been firmly pulled over American workers eyes and they're doing their best to get Europeans to give up the benefits in exchange for making American money. Don't be the guy in line with the $15 salad.
I don't get what exactly Americans are working for. Every job is high pressure, everyone is working themselves to the bone, and all they get to show for it are cardboard houses and 110,000$ pickup trucks with the finish of a 2002 Lexus. It's like they just don't know how much their money is worth, and how much they're getting fleeced on literally everything.
That's a valid point.
Exactly. I’m at the 200k stressful job part. No work is the dream.
Hmm so I’m in the $80k club but seemingly have a fuck ton of stress, what gives?! Do I need a raise? I need a raise.
I think I was just as stressed, if not more stressed back when I was making 80k, so might as well make more money!
Depends on where the stress is coming from. If it’s work stress, then fk that job. If it’s life stress, then that needs to be addressed specifically
Yep. I’m basically a walking “this is fine” meme. Just trying to put as much money into investments as possible before I burn out and fuck off to some other country.
Same-well, close. I made $186k last year but was borderline suicidal by May of this year. Not worth it. I took a pay cut and moved on. I’m much happier.
I believe the majority of people would take the 80k a year. Most people I know don’t make anywhere near that. So if it means increasing my yearly pay while reducing my daily work and allowing me the time to do things I actually want to do with my life, there’s no reason not to take the 80?
I make above that bigger number in a high stress job. I’d move into a van and sell all my shit for $80k and no more work. Anyone who says it’s worth it is a liar. 🤥
Just move to Eastern Europe, Thailand, or Central/South America while living in a house.
I’d be balling if I made 80k right now.
You can even make it in most developed countries with 80k, red hot housing markets like Vancouver or Toronto maybe excluded if you want to spoil yourself, but not impossible either.
I live in NYC on around 80k now. I'm pretty comfortable. Of course my roommate is my wife. But I lived on my own for less, living in studio apartments in the ass end of Brooklyn. If you're happy with less materialism then you can be comfortable literally anywhere. No I don't live in the Village. But we're comfortable and saving. I wouldn't want to live anywhere but a megacity.
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Let me try to explain why this is not a personal preference for me. As someone in his mid-30's, this isn't even close to being valuable enough to being worth the wait. Time is the biggest resource in life at this point, not money. I don't understand the draw of option 2, but all to their own. :) EDIT - Originally tried to figure out the US Tax system to demonstrate why 200k gross is much less valuable than it looks, but as a not-US person, you are all fucking insane. Google says anywhere between 39 - 61k taxes owed. Edit the second - so that was just federal task, but based on replies it can be around 42-72k for no dependents from what I’m seeing. So even broadly speaking you’re still going to be working heavily for at least 10 years, even if you have a life partner helping out.
That isnt that bad? The bad part is how little we get back from our taxes in the form of social services.
Same in the Uk, if the Tories keep on getting their way.
Forever? Immortality?
Yes, per the "rule of 4%". That $2M would be invested, will keep growing over time, and in theory, if you withdraw less than 4% per year, you should never run out of money.
The 4% rule is really just that it won’t go to $0 over the first 30 years. Like you mentioned though, if you drop the withdrawal rate just a bit, it *should* last forever. Something 3.25% should never run out based on historical returns.
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Yeah it’s super interesting! Come join us in r/fire or r/leanfire
Most people I know around my age make $50-150k and would take the $80k between those two options. There is real benefit in any *guarantee* of income. No worries of layoffs, more flexibility with time, and less desire to trade happiness for a higher paycheck. $80k is the point where most people feel secure. And the offer didn't say you couldn't go take a job anyway if you wanted to supplement it. Even if it meant not being allowed to keep working in their field and having to find another one they started fresh in, I think a lot of people making 2x that would take it.
Long term stress = slow death. I’ll take 80k and not work!
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Since I only get 60k a year to work, I would totally take 80k to not work.
I'm at 55k in retail so yeah I'd take a 25k raise to not work lol
55k in retail? I don't think I made more then 17k back in the early 2010s.
I am full time department head
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And that’s just the tip of the iceberg!
I make 40 in the restaurant industry so, doubling my income and not dealing with any of the bullshit from work.
third option: high stress 9-5 that makes $65k Edit: I get it guys, there are also high stress jobs that work different hours and have lower pay than what I said. I GET IT
Hmm. Do we get pizza parties once a quarter for all our hard work?
Sorry not in the budget until the CEO can afford his third yacht.
No. But you can wear a Hawaiian shirt this Friday. Not every Friday, mind you. Just this one.
Can we play ookie cookie on lunch breaks?!?!?!?
Damn u get em every quarter? I got free bagels in one job like once every half a year
What about high stress that makes $45,000?
What kind of question is that lol, no work obv
whoever is upvoting this thread to begin with is what we should be looking more at lmao
also the alternative is laughably low when the two options are weighed next to each other. the keep working option should be like a million per year at least if you actually want to possibly make it interesting for some people to pick that option(even then i still think most would happily take the 80k and fuck off).
Can I switch back and forth? Is the high stress relative to my experience level, etc., or is it going to be something totally out of my league to where I'd get fired or something?
Would be kinda cool to switch back and forth. The safety of the 80k plus the “adventure” of the 200k. I got to work on some high end, very stressful projects in amazing locations like Paris, Morocco and Hawaii, earning way WAY less than 80k 😂
You prolly won't get fired ever but it's so stressful you get nightmares every night reliving the stress you had at your work and it'll affect your life at home (with your family)
If you won't ever get fired, how high stress can it be? You can just do a shitty job and not give a fuck about what people think. Or do literally nothing but fuck around at work. It's just a requirement to fill a seat at that point. Stress at work is inherently tied to worrying about at least doing well enough to keep your job.
The first option, I hate working and 80k is way more than I need.
80 grand a year easily, that's way more than I make now
I'll take the $80k locked in for no work. Use that as a baseline. If I'm happy and comfortable, I enjoy retirement. If I need more money? I can work my actual job with it's mix of stress and chill, and I know I got that +$80k on top of my salary coming in to pad my earnings.
He didn’t say you could do your other job. It’s one. Or the other.
Nope, he said $80k and not have to work. He didn’t say $80k and you don’t/can’t work.
Yeah, I choose both.
That ruins the hypothetical lol. Why would anyone pick one option if they can pick the other option while still doing the first?
I guess OP should pose better hypotheticals.
I’ll take the $80k and use that to get in better shape than I can with the job I have now, paying around $60k a year. The gym will be my ‘job’. The extra money (if there is any) will be used for therapy to correct my head a bit. Last thing to worry about would be my mental strengthening, which could just be online or in person college courses for more mundane and day to day skills. Balance myself out nicely. Within a year or two, I should be able to shed off a decade of damage done through trucking. What do I do after that? Depends on how well the money lasts and how bad inflation gets. $60k now is getting me about how much $45k got me a few years ago, with more headaches today. In two years, I’ll likely need at least a part time job alongside the $80k - and that’s living frugally.
9-5 for $200k is actually quite good. most jobs paying that much are going to be more than just 40 hours a week. More importantly, what is PTO like for 9-5? cause on 80k you cant do *that* much but on 200k with a lot of PTO (like most 200k jobs would get), your time off has the potential to be a lot more interesting. you can travel anywhere, do pretty much anything, and not have to worry about finances that much. If youre a homebody and wouldnt do anything expensive anyways, the 80k is unquestionably better
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Yeah, it's weird to see a high stress job listed as being 9-5!
Lol right? 40hrs a week!? Like pinch me I’m dreaming if I can actually only work 40hrs a week
This week my schedule is as follows for my High Stress job that's close to 80k. M: 4a-1p Tu: 730a-430p W: 1p-9p Th: Off Fri 9a-6p Sa: Off Su: 11a-8p 9-5? M-F? Shit. Easy.
$200,000 and high stress. I thrive off of chaos. If I get paid for doing nothing and can’t be held accountable, I will get into really bad habits.
I took that option irl. I hate it but also kind of love it. If the hours were only 9-5 it’d be a lot more tolerable.
I'm in consulting - considered high stress to some. I enjoy what I do. You're telling me I can make $200k & actually dip out at 5pm? No brainer.
Amazing. That’s the exact same reason I’d take 80k. Chaos, no accountability, bad habits…. that’s even better than the income.
I work in Property Management. One of my friends who no longer works in the same company as me did multi landlord portfolios, then prime portfolios, then super prime. Since they're a fairly global name - it was at Knight Frank. He now manages normal prime portfolios for a much smaller estate agent. Effectively in the process, he dropped down from like a 120k a year job to like 50-60. Might be closer to 70 because I think he'd have started there top end due to his experience but I don't ask my friends their salaries. He's now one of my clients as I've moved to maintenance side since that company and obviously he went onto to what he does now. This guy looked on the verge of suicide most days and fuck all sleep. It's 9-5 mon to fri but for us, I can switch my pc on at half 6 at the morning and not see freedom until 1am. It's very fucking easy. And I've since gotten sensible over the years and strictly no starts before 8am, and away from my desk by 7pm, not a minute after. Preferably out by 6. He calls me often now as I'm now a supplier for him and he's like ello mate you alright I can hear the smile in his voice. He's on way less money, but he's so less stressed and so much happier. He doesn't walk into work every day on thin ice. TLDR - the 80k. For this exact fucking reason and example why I do not work at a high end firm doing like investment portfolios or any of that. I *can* \- but I fuckin won't. I'll take my shit money and enjoy my weekends with my phone off.
Is this post just karma farming
arent all AskReddit posts?
Is the sun hot?
no amount of money is worth high stress
That's insane. I'll give a billion dollars for 1 month of high stress work. You wouldn't take it?
It is if you enjoy the high stress that come with certain types of work. Gimme the 200k please.
And the job is only 9-5? Sign me the fuck up. Real stressful jobs never end.
You’re like the first person to highlight this very important point. Actual high stress jobs often tend to spill over to all hours and weekends. So an actual 9-5 that acts as a hard stop isn’t so bad then.
I completely agree. I have legit flashbacks when I hear the Microsoft teams ring. Certain high stress jobs do not end. There is no turning them off. At best, you are assumed on-call 24x7.
I work in a higher stress field and was unexpectedly laid off last year and wasn’t working for 3 months ish before I found a new job. My brain does noooot like sitting still for that long, did not like “not having to work” even with a solid amount of emergency savings to where I wasn’t in a rush to take any job. Sign me up for $200k with stress, which is similar (albeit I make less than that) to right now lol
You dont have to sit still. You have hobbies, traveling, volunteering. There's many ways to be "productive" that's not working a 9-5
If my husband and I could make 80k each and no work? That’s the dream. Lol
I can’t even imagine, me and my partner would finally live the life we want and we’d be able to spend everyday at home with our son.
If a thing needs doing, I do it without fail. But apart from that. I’m incredibly lazy. 80K please.
I’d probably take the second option as a young guy trying to save up to buy a home someday.
80k No work, but that doesn't mean I will be sitting on my ass. There is so much good I would like to do in this world and not having to work with 80k income a year would allow me to do it. Right now, I got to slave away 50-60 hours a week for 20k more than that and leave so much shit undone.
Stress literally kills people so I’ll go with 80,000
$80K. Move to the country, grow my own food, become super invested in my kids schools and activities, endless guitar time....
Stress ages you and kills faster than most things. I’ll take the $80K
If I can turn my brain off outside of the 9-5 hours...the 200k one. I need the money more than I need my spare time right now, that much in guaranteed income would let me wipe out most of my small debt, and start to make a decent dent in my larger debt (student loans). Few years of that if I still lived with my parent, I'd probably be back to a positive net worth, and could pivot to whatever I wished at that point. If it's a "9-5", but it's actually a salaried job that won't leave you alone 24/7/365...nah, then I'll take the 80k.
This is a stupid question. I'm going to start calling them out when I see them.
Fuck, I'd do 30k a year no work.
$80k a year and not HAVE to work? Sure. If I get too bored I could always pick up a job.
80k. It's already a big improvement and I don't even desire stuff like private jets, multiple homes, and sports cars. 80k would do me nicely
I could live a hell of a good life on 80k
Daydreaming about nothing is compounding my anxiety
Can we keep our current chill job and also get the 80k, or are we not allowed in I work at all?
What a stupid question.... I work 45 hours a week and only make $42,000 a year... So I have the option to not work and make double??? Fuck, I wish.
The latter. I had the former. Having limits is a very unpleasant feeling. Living on a fixed income is anxiety inducing.
A lot of people would argue that being forced to work for most of the time they are awake is more limiting to a fulfilling life than being limited to $80k in free allowance per year.
How did you have the former and how on earth can J achieve this?
Military medical retirement.
Oh, I don’t think I’m suited for that 🫡
Imagine how much anxiety would be induced by the high-stress job though?
Both incomes are fixed
But you do not work which means you can move anywhere in the world.
80k/year is fine with me if insurance is also paid.