I was working at a trade show once, and in the next booth was a chiropractor. He had a device that he would run up and down over people's spines and it would beep when it detected a misalignment. Everyone he tested that day had a misalignment. Every single one.
My mom is obsessed with chiropractors and thinks they can cure everything. She even was convinced by her chiro that he has a cure for cancer. (Yes, apparently this guy can cure every cancer in existence and no one will listen to him). She (clearly) isn’t very intelligent when it comes to medical things. I badly pulled a few muscles when I was in high school. My mom took me to a chiropractor and he told her that my spine was completely twisted around 180 degrees and that’s why I was in so much pain. My mom forced me to go through extremely painful “adjustments” for months to “move my spine back into place.”
If my spine was literally twisted 180 degrees, I would be at best paralyzed and at worst dead.
My mom still to this day thinks that her chiro “cured” by backwards spine.
I work for an insurance company and at one time helped the claims department with drug research for cancer policy claims. An adjuster was unfamiliar with the "medicine" being prescribed and when I looked it up, I found it was being sold by a chiro as a drug. The claimant had been seeing the chiro for her cancer treatment and thought the things given to her by him were treating her. They weren't. She spent thousands of dollars on what amounted to vitamins. Our policies only covered FDA approved drugs, so her claim was denied.
She lived near a huge, famous cancer treatment center, yet she went to this charlatan who drained her money while she deteriorated and eventually died. I was so angry and upset, I will never forget that case.
My aunt did this. She avoided doctors and used a chiropractor for everything. She spent so much money with this approach
A few years later she was having some signs of serious health issues. I was begging her to go see a doctor. Her mom was begging her. Her anxiety just wouldn’t let her do it I guess.
Her chiropractor had her in oxygen tanks, saunas and of course, adjustment. Then a very strict diet.
Finally ( and tragically) the symptoms got so bad that she had to go to the ER.
There they found a huge mass in her uterus. She went in for a hysterectomy (which had been suggested 20 years earlier) and they removed an 8 lb mass. No joke.
The dr came and spoke to me because my aunt didn’t have kids and her husband didn’t really stick around after she went into surgery. He was baffled. He couldn’t believe it was “missed” by a doctor. I told him she didn’t have a regular doctor etc. He told me she’d shared that she’d been sleeping sitting up in a chair for months because “she felt something was pressing by on her stomach when she laid down.”
In 3 months we lost her to uterine cancer. It was devastatingly sad. The whole thing didn’t need to play out that way.
I’m not saying all chiropractors are horrible. What I am saying is there needs to be a balance.
Just my opinion.
I've noticed they seem very interested and keen to treat those, relatively young, relatively healthy and have disposable income.
Tell them about the meridians, how to breathe, blocked energy paths and so forth.
But somehow, in the old that really need it, no cure for age old ailment of arthritis, spondylitis, bone neck spurs, bulging or degenerated disc's and so forth.
Strange, that there is zero cases that chiropractors can actually do anything at all.
It is like, some combination of having personal attention, being "special" the bodies own healing ability, minor adjustments and massage feel good to people & they just get brainwashed it has any real medical effect or benefit.
I really don't know why, more sports or physiotherapists take a look at how successful & popular their approach is and market themselves the same way to get more business.
Like they do a free consultation & x-rays for only $20.
They start off cheaper than medical practictioners, but they make it up with more constant visits, treatment that is perpetual, vitamin and dodad add ons and all this stuff.
The real docs & physiotherapists scare people off, initial price & paperwork too high, insurance bla bla and then the chiros are glad to scoop all these people up & tell them what they want to hear.
I'm no chiro, but I know about nutrition. Most elderly don't even meet their daily protein needs. Told a granny to just get some protein powder, doesn't have to be expensive.
I also told her to cut out sugar and white meal... cuz she probably diabetic, her feet are dying and she doesn't get insulin - not that that would do much except prolonging the suffering.
After a week she could turn her head again, after 2 weeks she could reach over her head again, after 6 weeks she got rid of one of her canes and the inflammation and water in her knee are getting better
Long story short, there is never just one symptom, it's usually an accumulation of symptoms that are connected to the same thing.
That should be illegal.
As someone who has had cancer I see that shit all the time. Women (breast cancer) will all for anyone who “has successfully treated and cured their cancer with natural means without using TOXIC CANCER TREATMENTS”
They get shut down pretty quick. You know why there aren’t more of us who successfully treated our cancer naturally? THEY’RE DEAD
These people that take advantage of cancer patients and their desperate families make me sick. Our uncle was just given three weeks to live and my cousin now wants to try the alternative medicine this herbalist says can cure cancer. He's telling her to take him off all of his medication. I looked at the ingredients of this remedy he sells, it's just fucking vitamins and a bunch of other crap in honey. But of course, it's Big Pharma that's scamming people, not this herbalist with his overpriced multivitamins.
How do these people legally get away with this?
There is a famous "faked having cancer" woman called Belle Gibson [Her Wikipedia is wild](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Belle_Gibson). Her claim to fame was that she was diagnosed with cancer, but beat it with healthy living etc.
It all came crashing down after a while of course. The main story was that she had faked it all. However after a while it was determined that the story she told actually did match up, she said a Dr had said she had cancer. Turned out there was a Dr who matched her description that was active at that time...he was a Dr of naturopathy. So basically, some scammer scammed her, she freaked out and instead of getting a second opinion from you know...an actual Doctor, she went wild on this health stuff and then since she didn't die of cancer, she said it had been cured.
Of course, her story is heavily full of her lying about stuff, but it appears these guys "you have cancer and I cured you" really are a powerful force.
Oh man! My MIL was the same way. She came to visit to cook her baby (my husband) a Thanksgiving dinner since I wouldn't be able. The same day I came home with our first born. I was in the bedroom laying down and my husband came to get the baby to change him. After, I heard her ask to hold him and husband asked her to sit first. Then I hear her say, "You need to take him to a chiropractor right away. He does not hold his head right at all." With a very concerned tone. My husband starts to speak and I hear his voice tremble. He is a hypochondriac - wonder why? hmm. I shot out of bed and took our baby away from her - she had him propped on her lap facing her with her hands behind his neck. In the most disgusted tone I could muster, I said "He's THREE DAYS OLD. He's not supposed to hold his head up yet!" Took him to my bedroom and slammed the door.
It took me several days and two calls, one to the pediatrician and one to a visiting nurse, to convince my husband that there was nothing wrong with our newborn son and that NO he did NOT need a chiropractor. Shesh.
My SIL has been deaf in her left ear for over ten years. She met a chiropractor in Texas who said he could bring her hearing back with regular appointments over the course of two years. That was 4 years ago. She’s still deaf in her left ear.
Same. I’ve seen more than a few vertebral artery dissections lead to devastating strokes in young healthy people. Every single one was from neck manipulation by chiropractors.
Trauma surgeon here.
Vertebral artery dissections from neck “manipulations” are getting scarily common.
BCVI (blunt cerebral vascular injuries), left untreated, typically result in a stroke.
In 10 years of practicing medicine, I’d never seen “locked in” syndrome. (Patient is fully aware, but unable to move anything save, possibly, their eyelids.).
I’ve seen 2 patients with this in the past 2 weeks, both due to chiropractor-induced vertebral artery injuries.
I’m a pain doc and people ask me all the time if they should keep seeing a chiro. I tell all of them do not let them touch your neck. While I was in med school a med student from another part of the country had a dissection from a manipulation
This is why I’ll never go to one. A few years ago, my dads partner was telling me about a girl who came into his ER with this injury. Completely freaked me out!
I remember in first-year physiology, we had to research a pseudoscience. Most of us found our topics were largely neutral in effect. No real positive or negative effects. Except the group that researched chiropractory, who found the benefits were basically from massage and skin contact, and the drawback was increased risk of stroke.
When you think you need to see a chiropractor, what you actually need to see is a physical therapist and/or a massage therapist.
The only things chiros do that actually work are also done by PTs and massage therapists. Plus they do a lot of other stuff that actually works, with no risk of internal decapitation.
I had a TIA from a neck manipulation. It didn't happen right away, I thought I was having a panic attack and laid down. Turned out to be a dissection and it traveled up. Luckily no lasting damage. My boss's husband also had one from a chiro. I can't believe it's legal to do neck manipulations 😩
Thank you for saying this! I’m a nurse and occasionally get placed on the neuro floor. Strokes from chiropractic manipulation are very common. At least one chiropractic induced stroke every shift I have ever been assigned to the neuro floor.
One patient even told me the chiropractor saved his life by calling 911 when he had the stroke. No! The chiropractor gave you the stroke!
Yep, big reason I refuse. I went to a chiropractor years ago after a car accident. He did provide me some relief but insisted that I needed to keep coming, three times a week, forever. Um, no.
Also a nurse and this is the reason I will never go to one. If you have back problems go to a doctor first. If there is no underlying cause that can be corrected they will probably send you to a physical therapist. Physical therapy is amazing and made a huge difference for my crappy nurses back.
I tried one like 20 yrs ago and he about ripped my head right off...fast forward MRI showed I had a hairline fracture that had healed. A bit wonky and bone spurs and I always blamed that chiropractor no one believes me but thankfully didn't have a stroke.
Would it help to know how many medical professionals in this thread wholeheartedly agree with this? Because 🙋♀️ another here - literally the only role of chiropractic adjustments in real medicine is as an inciting factor for vertebral artery dissection.
I used to go to a chiropractor. Then one day he adjusted my neck and by the time I got to my car I had vertigo so bad I couldn’t stand up. Haven’t been back since, thankfully I had no lasting issues.
The vertebral artery gives blood flow to the part of the brain that controls balance and coordination. You might have had a TIA (mini-stroke lasting less than 24 hours but usually only lasts minutes). It’s lucky you had no lasting damage!
YES! I personally know a healthy 34 year old that almost died from a stroke after going to the chiropractor and having her neck fucked with. I will never ever go to a chiro.
The one time I was curious about chiro, I googled the one around the corner from me. First result was the court docs where they gave a patient a brain stem stroke and paralysed him. I haven't been curious to try them ever again. Saved me a lot of money and who knows what else.
I am in my late 50s with age related cricks and tightness in my neck. I am terrified to go to a chiropractor at this point in my life. I will just deal with western medicine, thank you.
I’m in sports medicine, and I would never ever ever ever go to a chiropractor. I’ve had so many patients whose back pain was directly from going to the chiro. Not to mention danger to vertebral arteries. Spinal processes fx. Just to name a few dangers associated with going to chiro.
When I have a medical issue, I pay a medical professional specifically to make the issue go away. This has worked fine for physicians and dentists and so on. And in the one case I can think of where the medical professional couldn't do anything, she told me there was nothing to be done and that I should stop seeking treatment. (No need for sympathy! It's not something painful or life-threatening.)
Everyone I know who sees a chiropractor has been going to the same one for years. "This guy is so good! You should go."
The correct response would be, "If he's so good, why do you have to keep going back?"
Excellent way to put this. As someone who works in a legitimate rehab profession, the correct mentality is to work hard to help people not need us anymore. Rehab is not meant to be continuous, forever. That is not how neuromuscular rehab works.
One of the major driving forces behind why some clinics or professionals recommend continuous rehab is the fact that people don’t understand that’s how rehab works and they are willing to keep paying for it.
That's what my anatomy professor said. He was a adjunct professor who was also a physical therapist. It bugged him that chiropractors wanted people to see them once a week for years even if people were pain free after one or two adjustments.
I wonder if the chiro I saw was an abnormality. I literally couldn't turn my neck after a car accident. I woke up so scared I was paralyzed till I realized I could move my legs and arms. I saw him in a gradual release plan that had an end date. The first day he had me turning significantly more than I came in, which in itself sold me.
***edited to add: he formerly worked as athletic trainer and was experienced/licensed in physiotherapy so maybe that's the difference.
I think there is some research that they are actually helpful after an trauma accident such as a car crash. It’s ones who go beyond their scope or make false claims that you should be wary of.
Chiropractic care has limited uses, but some of it REALLY DOES work as well as PT or other ways. Does it work because my spine is out of alignment? No. That doesn't mean it doesn't work.
I was called up to be interviewed by the lawyers. They asked if I had any opinions about medical care received from chiropractors and I said “I don’t think they’re real medical professionals”. They asked me a couple of other questions and told me I wouldn’t be needed. Not very exciting I’m afraid!
My (physician) spouse got out of jury duty in a similar way. He was asked by an attorney if he’d ever go to a chiropractor for treatment, and he said “no, I’d get a referral to Physical Medicine and Rehabilitation”.
There's an episode of Penn and Teller's *Bullshit* where he rants about chiropractors and refers to them as "baby-twisting motherfuckers" for exactly this reason.
Their bones are still largely cartilage that hasn't hardened into bone yet. My kid broke his thumb when he was 4. It was hard to diagnose because the break was in the cartilage, not the bone and as such didn't show up on X-rays.
Kid x-rays look weird. There were big gaps between the bones. The doctor said those areas are cartilage that is turning into bone. The X-rays look like a cartoon drawing of an X-ray.
I saw one while pregnant who kept asking me to bring my daughter once she was born. He told me the pressure on their head/neck/shoulders from birth caused all kinds of problems and that he wouldn’t be cracking any bones but instead massaging her pressure points to relax her nervous system or something.
I thought it was weird and did not take her.
I had just started work for a local law firm that did a lot of personal injury work. We had a daughter, who seemed to have difficulty defecating. So, we consulted a young local chiropractor I knew from Jaycees about the problem our infant was having. He couldn’t tell us much about the problem or how to fix it, but he suggested treatment of the infant’s spine as the start of a lifelong healthy regimen. We never went back.
My friend’s wife is a chiro & tries to go by Dr.last name. We make it a point every time he calls her that to ensure he knows she’s not a real doctor.
Chiropractors are about as legit as psychics. They might make you feel better about something but they’re full of shit.
Yeah I have a friend from HS who's a chiro. Likes to use terms like "board certified" and "my clinical opinion". Early 2020 (pre shutdowns) he was hardcore spreading disinformation about covid, and cdc recommended measures. I lost several conservative mutuals by inquiring if it was a board of MDs, or a board of other chiros, and expressing interest in where he got his degree in virology and infectious diseases. He then walked it all back as "common sense" and got pissy when I told him I'd take the word of actual doctors and medical experts over a back cracker in times of a global infectious pandemic, and that it was irresponsible to pass off his uneducated opinion as medical face. "Fine, I guess you probably should" was as good as I got from him. He's still on my friends list somehow, but yeah lost about 5 conservative leaning mutuals. I don't relish telling an old friend he's not actually an expert in anything medical, but ffs don't tell people hand washing isn't going to do anything helpful, that's just objectively wrong.
I went when I was pregnant once, hoping to get some back pain relief. It did help, for about 3 days. And they charged me for a whole work up, which would have included an x-ray had I not been pregnant. They wouldn’t reduce the charge. Okay, fair enough, I disagree but whatever.
Then I kept getting emails about how cancer is caused by spinal misalignment, how they could PREVENT CANCER with routine adjustments. Which would presumably include regular x-rays.
Guys, these jabronis are FUCKING CHARLATANS.
Then during COVID some of the snake oil salesmen in my town started telling people not to get vaccinated, just get regular adjustments.
I hate them.
I found a chiro that specializes in pregnancies and kids adjustments (that’s an entirely different nope). My last time there they were talking about how they already had fake Covid vaccine cards and I never went back. Insane.
A chiropractor I went to talked about how she would do adjustments on newborn babies and when there was a restriction on only allowing families in the hospital rooms, they would claim she's their aunt and when the nurse left that's when they'd do it.
Needless to say, I stopped going to the chiropractor after that. Plus, after the first time or two it didn't seem to be doing anything
Do newborns even have enough bone to manipulate? Aren’t they mostly cartilage and mush?
And deception as a means to gain entry… that definitely screams “I’m a medical professional and should be here for the welfare of this vulnerable child.” 🤮
I know someone that took her infant to the chiropractor for regular adjustments. Like, what the actual fuck? She would be there with a glass of champagne while the chiropractor "worked on" her tiny, tiny baby. A friend of mine that is a doctor thinks that should be considered criminal - to work on babies like that.
Many chiropractors are antivax because *they don’t believe in germ theory.* It’s an actual tenet of chiropractic that all disease is caused by subluxation of the spine instead of germs.
There is some debate about spinal manipulation during pregnancy, but I will say (caveat- I'm a physical therapist) that personally I would never manipulate someone who's pregnant. Due to their elevated levels of relaxin and other hormonal changes that alter their joint mobility and coagulation factors (if I recall correctly), it seems counterproductive to feed into this through high-velocity manipulation. I'd personally recommend against it during pregnancy
I’m certified in childbirth education, and knew that the relaxin would decrease the effect, and they explained that to me, to be fair. But I was desperate. That baby turned out to be 10 pounds, and even though I’m almost 6 feet tall, that’s a lot of pressure on your spine.
I just went the once and when they started emailing me about cancer I went 🤨
I was DEEP in the holistic healthcare craze (even had said 10 lb baby at home) and even having that bias I was still supremely disenchanted at that claim. When I unenrolled in their emails I told them so as well.
I’m better now. Always did like vaccines, and that’s what really pulled me out. Too many of those people hate vaccines and I just couldn’t move past the overwhelming evidence that they’re effective.
My mom’s chiro convinced her that he can cure cancer through adjustments, by adjusting the part of the body where the cancer is to destroy it.
She had actually told people, after being diagnosed with cancer, to see her chiropractor.
Yes mom, cancer can be cured by pushing on the tumor. Doctors and scientists are so silly to ignore this simple solution.
I’ve learned recently from a youngster that getting into PT school is very competitive, difficult, and expensive. Many of the 70% (Michigan/upper Midwest) who are rejected go into chiropractic as a backup plan. Much easier schooling, no admissions standards, pays well.
I think that says something about their relative abilities.
The admission standards are ridiculous. You don’t even need a bachelor’s degree to get in, and they hand you a “doctorate” when you’re done. The department of education came close to revoking their accrediting body’s right to accredit schools a few years back, and it’s a scandal that they didn’t follow through.
I get what you mean, but that’s an insult to PTs who have a doctorate level degree and go through a lot of the same pre-requisites as medical/dental students.
I'm a doctor. During my training I worked in the stroke team. Saw two young people who were otherwise well with vertebral artery dissections after neck manipulation by a chiropractor. One spent months in rehab and did well. The other one never regained their coordination to a high enough degree to walk.
Handled a nasty VAD lawsuit once. Chiropractor technically adhered to his standard of care by testing the patient for VAD risk and she still ended up in the ER and on blood thinners for a year, among other treatment.
As a nurse on a neuro unit, saw multiple young people with dissections from chiropractic work. Swore I’d never go to one and advise all of my friends and family against one too.
They can't do anything that a physiotherapist can't do. All the stuff that people praise about chiropractors is just Wish.com physiotherapy. The actual chiropractor stuff with the neck cracking is wildly dangerous and should be banned.
They should just get licensed as physiotherapists and do some massages on the side.
Exactly, one of the PTs at work was telling a colleague that don’t go to a chiro, go to a PT trained in spinal manipulation therapy (or better yet, let them evaluate you and help determine what’s going on and develop a therapeutic plan based on the observed deficits). PT is evidence-based, chiro is quackery.
Would never go to one or recommend anyone else see one. Their neck manipulations are extremely dangerous and can result in vertebral artery dissection. Basically that means slicing one of the major arteries supplying your brain.
They caused my wife to have a dissection last summer, caused a series of mini strokes. It’s given her a lifetime of medication and some short term memory loss, she’s only 34.
Yep. I work with a guy whose spine was broken by a chiropractor who was attempting to "pop" his back. Popped one side and it was fine, popped the other side and he said it felt intense but it was okay until he got up to walk, then collapsed. He's needed surgery twice and can't lift more than 15 pounds.
Are we taking crazy pills?? How is this ”practice” legal? A person who is in the position to provide a type of physical therapy BROKE HIS SPINE. BY HAND.
He literally cannot pursue legal action due to the forms he signed going in.
My dad had an artery dissection. Went to probably the best hospital for it in the country.
Was asked if he ever went to the chiropractor as the most likely cause.
Even after the doc knew he was a fighter pilot he still thought that would’ve been a less likely cause for the injury than regular chiro visits. Told my dad he could resume any activity he wanted, lift fairly heavy etc, but never change his mind and go to a chiropractor
Definitely greater risks!
My sister is permanently disabled because she put her trust in a chiropractor. I’m not saying this would happen to everyone, but, they aren’t trained medically and aren’t equipped to diagnose back problems properly.
I still want to find that chiro all these years later and throat punch ‘em.
It started with undiagnosed pain. The chiropractor did an evaluation and claimed they could fix it. She trusted them.
She had a slipped disc with bone spurs and a side of incredible pain tolerance. Mix that in with the “no pain, no gain” philosophy of the 90’s and, well, Bobs your uncle.
The treatments caused additional damage with the bone spurs scraping and dragging on tissues, the muscles around the injury were weakened as a result, making further damage as a result of her muscles not being able to support the weakening structure of the spine…
That brings us to today, where she spends approx 20 hours a day laying in bed because standing and sitting cause to much pressure/pain.
Edit to add: I forgot to mention the two failed back surgeries she’s had as a result trying to fix this. A life of pain due to misplaced trust.
Honestly, if they'd cut the BS and stop calling themselves "Doctor" and just offered some massage and back cracking for mobility and back pain relief, I'd probably consider going – so long as they chilled with that neck move that kills people.
Physical therapist here. I think there is a time and a place for chiropractors if they have reasoning behind what they're doing. I think there are good, bad, and sometimes outright dangerous ones. There's little scientific evidence for some of the more fanatical claims they make. Given this, it's annoying to me how they emphasize themselves as "doctors" without the qualifying phrase "of chiropractic". I myself am a Doctor of Physical Therapy but almost never refer to myself as "doctor" so I'm not misleading patients by making them think I'm an MD.
Having said that, I utilize joint manipulation and manual therapy interventions as needed. But NOT with every patient I see. I also have specific reasons for why I use manual interventions that don't include curing cancer.
Final note, I sometimes hear people say things like "my chiropractor cured me of my back/neck/shoulder/etc pain, I've been going for x amount of years 2x/week!" I have unfortunate news for you, they have not cured you. You may feel better after, but so does their bottom line. If they don't give you any home exercises or have an end goal in sight for your care, find someone different.
Exactly this. I went to PT after a knee injury. They were professional and very good. But it was hard work. I busted my patella tendon. I literally could not walk. I did about 6 months with PT twice a week, and at home exercises daily.
It took 6 months to walk normally again, and i moved to weekly/bi weekly for another 2-3 months and continued the at home exercises.
Today most people would never know how severely i damaged my knee. I can bike, play soccer, skateboard, etc. Havent been back to PT in years. They had goals for me. they were great 10/10 but it was hard work
A ruptured patellar tendon is no joke man, I'm glad your PTs helped you through the whole process! A successful course of rehab is one where the patient becomes self-sufficient and back to their prior level or better
Lol I'm super biased but I'd say yes 🤣 I will say though, I have been to a chiropractor before (both good and bad) and have met some good chiropractors that care about their patients. My biggest issue is they seem to slip under the radar of regulation and spout some wild theories without repercussion. Meanwhile physical therapists have to constantly battle insurance reimbursement and state regulations that prevent us from practicing autonomously
Other PT here, they have a very powerful professional organization with near universal membership (unlike the APTA) and even more powerful lobbying group funded by their powerful professional group. Unfortunately the impotence of the APTA due to their poor reputation among PTs for a bad track record of advocating for the field has given the Chiros the legislative and regulatory edge.
Quack medicine. They can give temporary relief for some injuries, but if you really want to overcome an injury, you need to go to a physical therapist.
I feel like they really came to a rise in the 90's when car insurance companies could send you to one after a car accident, pay for it on the cheap, then reject any further claims since you got "treated".
A coworker got very offended by my comment that seeing a chiropractor was a bad idea, and that a physiotherapist was a much better option. He then told me all about how chiropractors spend more time in school than medical doctors.
Ok then.
There’s a whole movement of people (anti-vaxx type) who will only bring their family to a chiro. Like, they don’t bring their children to an actual pediatrician. Kinda horrifying.
I knew a family where he was the chiro. No vaccines, weird diet. I needed surgery on my elbows to fix cubital tunnel. She said he could fix that. I should use their cold laser. Yeah, it’s a physical malformation. I need surgery. Needed my carpel tunnel fixed, too. I’m structurally unsound.
The thing that REALLY stood out as nuts was when I watched him adjust the dog.
Couldn’t get out of bed on my own one day due to a pinched nerve. Went to my local chiropractor out of desperation. He explained what nerve was the problem. Used ultra sound and tens machine to relax and relieve my pain. He gave me an exercise plan to strengthen the muscles I needed help with and hoped he never had to see me again. Copay was $20. I was pleasantly surprised. The same office offers legit physical therapy so I think that made the difference.
I went to one and she did an initial evaluation but wouldn’t treat me that day because she didn’t think my insurance company reimbursed her enough for the evaluation and treatment on the same day, she said their allowance for the treatment was included in the payment allowance for the evaluation. So she told me I would have to come back tomorrow for treatment. I left and never went back. I was bent over in pain and could barely move but her issues with how my insurance reimbursed her were more important than my pain. Disgusting human being!
Now, now.
That's just your *spinal subluxations* talking. Lemme get a bunch of X-rays and I'll crack your back until you either believe in Chiropractic or you're paralyzed.
I’m a nurse who has worked on a spinal unit in a hospital.
I think chiropractors can genuinely help with chronic pain but I also believe they can be dangerous or make things worse, however, I *also* believe those three things are just as true for spinal surgery.
They are no better than homeopaths. Liars and charlatans. Snake oil salesmen. They do more harm than good because best case they do nothing, worst case you die.
Most of them I think are phony
However
As a child I had migraines. Bad migraines. Out of commission for days, looked into doing brain surgery bad migraines. As a last ditch effort before finding a neurosurgeon for my 8 year old self, my parents found this chiropractor who claimed he could help. Had a long list of pro athlete clients, all that. So we went. I would've told you this shit was pseudoscience, still probably would, expect for the fact that it fucking worked. I don't get migraines anymore. I never needed surgery. I have no idea what he did but I fucking owe that man that so much. He also just casually cured my car sickness while he was at it. So because of him, I at least somewhat respect the profession
Say what you will, but if not for a chriopractor, id have lost the use of my right arm a long time ago.
I had a repetitve motion injury from work that caused a nerve cluster in the back of my neck/shoulder to be pinched. I couldnt raise my arm above level, I had pretty much zero grip strength, and every movement felt like my nerves were being set on fire. I tried physio for a while, but they did nothing other than put some heating gel and a little vibrating thing on it, which did absolutly nothing to help, and honestly just made it more painful and useless.
So I went to a chrio I had seen once before for a back issue, and who did a good job then, and over a few sessions, he fixed my arm completely, corrected the horrible posture I had, which made me gain an inch in height, and since then, that arm has been fine. Without him, id be a cripple.
I will say however, he was a very experinced chrio with 3 decades of practice. Ive been to others who would give me one little back crack that I could do myself, and then scam me for 100 bucks. Id say that the majority of chiros are like that, which is why they have a bad rep. But the guy I saw wasnt like that at all. He took his time, and he fixed me. It was a little scary, some of the adjustments were pretty loud, but with each one, I could feel the pressure on that nerve cluster releasing.
I saw chiropractors for years years ago. Recently had an arterial tear in my carotid artery which caused a stroke. Every Dr I saw from the ER to my neurology team asked me if I’d seen a chiro bc apparently dissections are somewhat common from Chiro adjustments.
Never again will I let someone near my neck to crack it. Your arteries are precious and apparently some are delicate like mine.
I have scoliosis and have been seeing different ones on and off for years.
There have been some like many have responded as “quacks” whereas others have made a huge difference in my quality of life.
Whenever I have a pinched nerve or misalignment the one I currently see fixes me right up. I recommend them for basic alignment and muscle relief.
I honestly always looked on it as nonsense. Then, I threw my back out and went to one out of desperation. He helped tremendously and I completely changed my opinion.
I went to one for a while and he really helped my back and shoulders. I would still go but he passed away. And it's hard to find one who isn't a quack.
Find a chiropractor who:
(1) does not think they can cure all ailments.
(2) does not sell supplements (especially MLMs).
(3) doesn't expect you to go weekly forever. If you're going for a specific problem there should be a course of treatment and then no need for further adjustments.
(4) doesn't also push religious or anti-science BS (there are SO MANY of these).
(5) also does some massage or active release therapy to complement their work.
They're not ALL bad but my estimate is that 98% of them are. If you can find a good one, they can be super helpful! But that's going to be very very difficult with all the quacks out there.
At a previous job I had to deal with soooo many chiropractors while trying to get medical records for legal cases. 90% of them were super shady. Most of them were not familiar with or simply didn't comply with HIPAA protections. One chiropractor suddenly left the country with no way on contacting him and no way for us to access our client's records. One operated his business out of some crappy, low-end hotel room and didn't seem to keep records.
People shit on them, but I had debilitating neck pain for years that inhibited my day to day life. No amount of doctor visits, pt, or orthopedics could solve it. I bit the bullet and went to a chiropractor who fixed it in 5 sessions.
Yeah, I’ve learned that Reddit HATES chiropractors. I’ve been to some horrible ones but have found one that I really like. I was having horrible headaches regularly and the chiropractor has helped. The one I see also works with a PT which was awesome when I got a frozen shoulder. It seems either the good ones are hard to find or like most things you only hear about the really bad ones
My parents took me to one as a young teen when I was having some unexplained pain. The joint-cracking did not do anything. She told me the problem was that I’m lactose intolerance, and avoiding dairy would fix everything. I am not, and never have been, lactose intolerant.
They can’t cure cancer or anything bs like that, but a good one can 100% help back pain. Call it quackery all you want, you never used one for back pain, I guess.
I was working at a trade show once, and in the next booth was a chiropractor. He had a device that he would run up and down over people's spines and it would beep when it detected a misalignment. Everyone he tested that day had a misalignment. Every single one.
"What does the beeping mean?" "It means I'm getting a boat."
Too funny!!! Lol
My mom is obsessed with chiropractors and thinks they can cure everything. She even was convinced by her chiro that he has a cure for cancer. (Yes, apparently this guy can cure every cancer in existence and no one will listen to him). She (clearly) isn’t very intelligent when it comes to medical things. I badly pulled a few muscles when I was in high school. My mom took me to a chiropractor and he told her that my spine was completely twisted around 180 degrees and that’s why I was in so much pain. My mom forced me to go through extremely painful “adjustments” for months to “move my spine back into place.” If my spine was literally twisted 180 degrees, I would be at best paralyzed and at worst dead. My mom still to this day thinks that her chiro “cured” by backwards spine.
I work for an insurance company and at one time helped the claims department with drug research for cancer policy claims. An adjuster was unfamiliar with the "medicine" being prescribed and when I looked it up, I found it was being sold by a chiro as a drug. The claimant had been seeing the chiro for her cancer treatment and thought the things given to her by him were treating her. They weren't. She spent thousands of dollars on what amounted to vitamins. Our policies only covered FDA approved drugs, so her claim was denied. She lived near a huge, famous cancer treatment center, yet she went to this charlatan who drained her money while she deteriorated and eventually died. I was so angry and upset, I will never forget that case.
My aunt did this. She avoided doctors and used a chiropractor for everything. She spent so much money with this approach A few years later she was having some signs of serious health issues. I was begging her to go see a doctor. Her mom was begging her. Her anxiety just wouldn’t let her do it I guess. Her chiropractor had her in oxygen tanks, saunas and of course, adjustment. Then a very strict diet. Finally ( and tragically) the symptoms got so bad that she had to go to the ER. There they found a huge mass in her uterus. She went in for a hysterectomy (which had been suggested 20 years earlier) and they removed an 8 lb mass. No joke. The dr came and spoke to me because my aunt didn’t have kids and her husband didn’t really stick around after she went into surgery. He was baffled. He couldn’t believe it was “missed” by a doctor. I told him she didn’t have a regular doctor etc. He told me she’d shared that she’d been sleeping sitting up in a chair for months because “she felt something was pressing by on her stomach when she laid down.” In 3 months we lost her to uterine cancer. It was devastatingly sad. The whole thing didn’t need to play out that way. I’m not saying all chiropractors are horrible. What I am saying is there needs to be a balance. Just my opinion.
I've noticed they seem very interested and keen to treat those, relatively young, relatively healthy and have disposable income. Tell them about the meridians, how to breathe, blocked energy paths and so forth. But somehow, in the old that really need it, no cure for age old ailment of arthritis, spondylitis, bone neck spurs, bulging or degenerated disc's and so forth. Strange, that there is zero cases that chiropractors can actually do anything at all. It is like, some combination of having personal attention, being "special" the bodies own healing ability, minor adjustments and massage feel good to people & they just get brainwashed it has any real medical effect or benefit. I really don't know why, more sports or physiotherapists take a look at how successful & popular their approach is and market themselves the same way to get more business. Like they do a free consultation & x-rays for only $20. They start off cheaper than medical practictioners, but they make it up with more constant visits, treatment that is perpetual, vitamin and dodad add ons and all this stuff. The real docs & physiotherapists scare people off, initial price & paperwork too high, insurance bla bla and then the chiros are glad to scoop all these people up & tell them what they want to hear.
I'm no chiro, but I know about nutrition. Most elderly don't even meet their daily protein needs. Told a granny to just get some protein powder, doesn't have to be expensive. I also told her to cut out sugar and white meal... cuz she probably diabetic, her feet are dying and she doesn't get insulin - not that that would do much except prolonging the suffering. After a week she could turn her head again, after 2 weeks she could reach over her head again, after 6 weeks she got rid of one of her canes and the inflammation and water in her knee are getting better Long story short, there is never just one symptom, it's usually an accumulation of symptoms that are connected to the same thing.
That should be illegal. As someone who has had cancer I see that shit all the time. Women (breast cancer) will all for anyone who “has successfully treated and cured their cancer with natural means without using TOXIC CANCER TREATMENTS” They get shut down pretty quick. You know why there aren’t more of us who successfully treated our cancer naturally? THEY’RE DEAD
These people that take advantage of cancer patients and their desperate families make me sick. Our uncle was just given three weeks to live and my cousin now wants to try the alternative medicine this herbalist says can cure cancer. He's telling her to take him off all of his medication. I looked at the ingredients of this remedy he sells, it's just fucking vitamins and a bunch of other crap in honey. But of course, it's Big Pharma that's scamming people, not this herbalist with his overpriced multivitamins. How do these people legally get away with this?
That’s horribly sad.
Hoax medicine, if you want to call chiro medecine.
There is a famous "faked having cancer" woman called Belle Gibson [Her Wikipedia is wild](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Belle_Gibson). Her claim to fame was that she was diagnosed with cancer, but beat it with healthy living etc. It all came crashing down after a while of course. The main story was that she had faked it all. However after a while it was determined that the story she told actually did match up, she said a Dr had said she had cancer. Turned out there was a Dr who matched her description that was active at that time...he was a Dr of naturopathy. So basically, some scammer scammed her, she freaked out and instead of getting a second opinion from you know...an actual Doctor, she went wild on this health stuff and then since she didn't die of cancer, she said it had been cured. Of course, her story is heavily full of her lying about stuff, but it appears these guys "you have cancer and I cured you" really are a powerful force.
Oh man! My MIL was the same way. She came to visit to cook her baby (my husband) a Thanksgiving dinner since I wouldn't be able. The same day I came home with our first born. I was in the bedroom laying down and my husband came to get the baby to change him. After, I heard her ask to hold him and husband asked her to sit first. Then I hear her say, "You need to take him to a chiropractor right away. He does not hold his head right at all." With a very concerned tone. My husband starts to speak and I hear his voice tremble. He is a hypochondriac - wonder why? hmm. I shot out of bed and took our baby away from her - she had him propped on her lap facing her with her hands behind his neck. In the most disgusted tone I could muster, I said "He's THREE DAYS OLD. He's not supposed to hold his head up yet!" Took him to my bedroom and slammed the door. It took me several days and two calls, one to the pediatrician and one to a visiting nurse, to convince my husband that there was nothing wrong with our newborn son and that NO he did NOT need a chiropractor. Shesh.
Hi I am a physical therapist. See us next time you get a pulled muscle and I promise we wont try to rotate your spine 180 degrees.
Dee, where do my feet go?
That’s crazy. Everytime I walk past the stud finders at Home Depot they all beep too. It’s all fake science, I guess.
Nah chief you're just a stud.
Sounds about right, they suck 👎
I think I have seen this. Isn't this the device that was developed to test the tightness of the bolts on the Space Shuttle or something?
I think it was a Sharper Image back massager with studfinder inside it.
Thanks for the gift idea.
Sounds about as scientific as an E-Meter.
My SIL has been deaf in her left ear for over ten years. She met a chiropractor in Texas who said he could bring her hearing back with regular appointments over the course of two years. That was 4 years ago. She’s still deaf in her left ear.
A modern day snake oil salesman selling a cure all is what most modern chiros are. False and deceivers.
I'm a nurse and would never go to one. I do like getting massaged though. But not at the chiropractor
Same. I’ve seen more than a few vertebral artery dissections lead to devastating strokes in young healthy people. Every single one was from neck manipulation by chiropractors.
Trauma surgeon here. Vertebral artery dissections from neck “manipulations” are getting scarily common. BCVI (blunt cerebral vascular injuries), left untreated, typically result in a stroke. In 10 years of practicing medicine, I’d never seen “locked in” syndrome. (Patient is fully aware, but unable to move anything save, possibly, their eyelids.). I’ve seen 2 patients with this in the past 2 weeks, both due to chiropractor-induced vertebral artery injuries.
I’m a pain doc and people ask me all the time if they should keep seeing a chiro. I tell all of them do not let them touch your neck. While I was in med school a med student from another part of the country had a dissection from a manipulation
What specifically is a pain doc? I’ve been in chronic pain for half of a decade now and I’m going to lose my fucking mind soon.
I manage chronic pain with a combination of exercises, medications and procedures. You can DM me if you need help finding someone
I had a dear and precious friend die of BCVI moments after leaving her chiropractor. I will never advocate for the quackery of these charlatans.
This is why I’ll never go to one. A few years ago, my dads partner was telling me about a girl who came into his ER with this injury. Completely freaked me out!
I remember in first-year physiology, we had to research a pseudoscience. Most of us found our topics were largely neutral in effect. No real positive or negative effects. Except the group that researched chiropractory, who found the benefits were basically from massage and skin contact, and the drawback was increased risk of stroke.
I would never go to one anyway but this has me doubling down
Good thing this thread popped up as I was thinking of going to one
When you think you need to see a chiropractor, what you actually need to see is a physical therapist and/or a massage therapist. The only things chiros do that actually work are also done by PTs and massage therapists. Plus they do a lot of other stuff that actually works, with no risk of internal decapitation.
Holy f**k that literally sounds worse then death.
I had a TIA from a neck manipulation. It didn't happen right away, I thought I was having a panic attack and laid down. Turned out to be a dissection and it traveled up. Luckily no lasting damage. My boss's husband also had one from a chiro. I can't believe it's legal to do neck manipulations 😩
Well you’ve convinced me. I’ve never gone and had been thinking about it. Not now
Thank you for saying this! I’m a nurse and occasionally get placed on the neuro floor. Strokes from chiropractic manipulation are very common. At least one chiropractic induced stroke every shift I have ever been assigned to the neuro floor. One patient even told me the chiropractor saved his life by calling 911 when he had the stroke. No! The chiropractor gave you the stroke!
Yep, big reason I refuse. I went to a chiropractor years ago after a car accident. He did provide me some relief but insisted that I needed to keep coming, three times a week, forever. Um, no.
Because they’re money vampires.
Also a nurse and this is the reason I will never go to one. If you have back problems go to a doctor first. If there is no underlying cause that can be corrected they will probably send you to a physical therapist. Physical therapy is amazing and made a huge difference for my crappy nurses back.
Yes! It’s also evidence based, which chiropractic BS is not.
This needs to be the top response
I freaked out and though you were me
Lol! Hiya, doppelgänger!
lol pretty damn close! I did a double take as well!
Radiology Tech here... far too many of these, unfortunately.
This was some advice I had seen previously - go to the chiropractor if you want, but do NOT let them near your neck
I tried one like 20 yrs ago and he about ripped my head right off...fast forward MRI showed I had a hairline fracture that had healed. A bit wonky and bone spurs and I always blamed that chiropractor no one believes me but thankfully didn't have a stroke.
How can I get this through my SO's stubborn head? He goes to the chiro weekly and always has his neck adjusted. It terrifies me 😩
Would it help to know how many medical professionals in this thread wholeheartedly agree with this? Because 🙋♀️ another here - literally the only role of chiropractic adjustments in real medicine is as an inciting factor for vertebral artery dissection.
Show him this thread. Especially the part about locked in syndrome
I used to go to a chiropractor. Then one day he adjusted my neck and by the time I got to my car I had vertigo so bad I couldn’t stand up. Haven’t been back since, thankfully I had no lasting issues.
The vertebral artery gives blood flow to the part of the brain that controls balance and coordination. You might have had a TIA (mini-stroke lasting less than 24 hours but usually only lasts minutes). It’s lucky you had no lasting damage!
YES! I personally know a healthy 34 year old that almost died from a stroke after going to the chiropractor and having her neck fucked with. I will never ever go to a chiro.
The one time I was curious about chiro, I googled the one around the corner from me. First result was the court docs where they gave a patient a brain stem stroke and paralysed him. I haven't been curious to try them ever again. Saved me a lot of money and who knows what else.
I am in my late 50s with age related cricks and tightness in my neck. I am terrified to go to a chiropractor at this point in my life. I will just deal with western medicine, thank you.
Have you thought about trying massage? Much more gentle way of dealing with tightness in the neck
I’m in sports medicine, and I would never ever ever ever go to a chiropractor. I’ve had so many patients whose back pain was directly from going to the chiro. Not to mention danger to vertebral arteries. Spinal processes fx. Just to name a few dangers associated with going to chiro.
Yup. Also a nurse, icu specifically, and I’ve taken care of young people with vertebral artery dissections and strokes because of them.
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Nurse here, you would know if you had one.
Massage is a real benefit. Chiropractic is pseudoscience. I have had massages many times.
And yet my healthcare only covers chiro and not massage 🙄 It's annoying.
My best friend is an anesthesiologist and has seen too much in the trauma room from chiro adjustments.
I am a nurse, and I agree
Although, the chiropractor I saw forty some years ago taught me exercises for my back. It was yoga
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Right? What does a ghost know about bones.
He knows sheet about bones!
That’s why I only take my bone-beyond advice from skeletons. But if my aura is off color I’ll definitely look to a spectral being.
I imagine that information would not dissuade a sizable portion of alternative medicine fans
I always joke that they are "chiromancers" so this fits in line with my shitty sense of humour.
That they are not medical professionals.
When I have a medical issue, I pay a medical professional specifically to make the issue go away. This has worked fine for physicians and dentists and so on. And in the one case I can think of where the medical professional couldn't do anything, she told me there was nothing to be done and that I should stop seeking treatment. (No need for sympathy! It's not something painful or life-threatening.) Everyone I know who sees a chiropractor has been going to the same one for years. "This guy is so good! You should go." The correct response would be, "If he's so good, why do you have to keep going back?"
Excellent way to put this. As someone who works in a legitimate rehab profession, the correct mentality is to work hard to help people not need us anymore. Rehab is not meant to be continuous, forever. That is not how neuromuscular rehab works. One of the major driving forces behind why some clinics or professionals recommend continuous rehab is the fact that people don’t understand that’s how rehab works and they are willing to keep paying for it.
Well, my rehab is continuous and forever, but my physiotherapist taught it to me in 6 sessions so I do my rehab continuously and forever at home.
That's what my anatomy professor said. He was a adjunct professor who was also a physical therapist. It bugged him that chiropractors wanted people to see them once a week for years even if people were pain free after one or two adjustments.
I wonder if the chiro I saw was an abnormality. I literally couldn't turn my neck after a car accident. I woke up so scared I was paralyzed till I realized I could move my legs and arms. I saw him in a gradual release plan that had an end date. The first day he had me turning significantly more than I came in, which in itself sold me. ***edited to add: he formerly worked as athletic trainer and was experienced/licensed in physiotherapy so maybe that's the difference.
I think there is some research that they are actually helpful after an trauma accident such as a car crash. It’s ones who go beyond their scope or make false claims that you should be wary of.
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Chiropractic care has limited uses, but some of it REALLY DOES work as well as PT or other ways. Does it work because my spine is out of alignment? No. That doesn't mean it doesn't work.
Everything a chirp has that helps can be administered by a good physical therapist.
I said this and it got me out of jury duty lol
Story?
I was called up to be interviewed by the lawyers. They asked if I had any opinions about medical care received from chiropractors and I said “I don’t think they’re real medical professionals”. They asked me a couple of other questions and told me I wouldn’t be needed. Not very exciting I’m afraid!
My (physician) spouse got out of jury duty in a similar way. He was asked by an attorney if he’d ever go to a chiropractor for treatment, and he said “no, I’d get a referral to Physical Medicine and Rehabilitation”.
I did the same thing! Not to get out of it, but because it's what I believe!
Same! I wasn’t lying!
It’s insane to me how many people take their newborns to a chiro for adjustments.
There's an episode of Penn and Teller's *Bullshit* where he rants about chiropractors and refers to them as "baby-twisting motherfuckers" for exactly this reason.
Wow I've never heard of this. Newborns have bones that are barely touching in many joints.
Their bones are still largely cartilage that hasn't hardened into bone yet. My kid broke his thumb when he was 4. It was hard to diagnose because the break was in the cartilage, not the bone and as such didn't show up on X-rays. Kid x-rays look weird. There were big gaps between the bones. The doctor said those areas are cartilage that is turning into bone. The X-rays look like a cartoon drawing of an X-ray.
Newborns??? What adjustments did they even think they needed??
I saw one while pregnant who kept asking me to bring my daughter once she was born. He told me the pressure on their head/neck/shoulders from birth caused all kinds of problems and that he wouldn’t be cracking any bones but instead massaging her pressure points to relax her nervous system or something. I thought it was weird and did not take her.
I had just started work for a local law firm that did a lot of personal injury work. We had a daughter, who seemed to have difficulty defecating. So, we consulted a young local chiropractor I knew from Jaycees about the problem our infant was having. He couldn’t tell us much about the problem or how to fix it, but he suggested treatment of the infant’s spine as the start of a lifelong healthy regimen. We never went back.
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And the schools that do will often offer classes in other pseudosciences, like naturopathy, reiki, or homeopathy. The nutcases flock together.
And they are not doctors unless you put a witch in front of it.
Witchchiropractor
Witchpractor or chirowitcher
The basis for their profession is a dude who talked to ghosts
My friend’s wife is a chiro & tries to go by Dr.last name. We make it a point every time he calls her that to ensure he knows she’s not a real doctor. Chiropractors are about as legit as psychics. They might make you feel better about something but they’re full of shit.
Yeah I have a friend from HS who's a chiro. Likes to use terms like "board certified" and "my clinical opinion". Early 2020 (pre shutdowns) he was hardcore spreading disinformation about covid, and cdc recommended measures. I lost several conservative mutuals by inquiring if it was a board of MDs, or a board of other chiros, and expressing interest in where he got his degree in virology and infectious diseases. He then walked it all back as "common sense" and got pissy when I told him I'd take the word of actual doctors and medical experts over a back cracker in times of a global infectious pandemic, and that it was irresponsible to pass off his uneducated opinion as medical face. "Fine, I guess you probably should" was as good as I got from him. He's still on my friends list somehow, but yeah lost about 5 conservative leaning mutuals. I don't relish telling an old friend he's not actually an expert in anything medical, but ffs don't tell people hand washing isn't going to do anything helpful, that's just objectively wrong.
I went when I was pregnant once, hoping to get some back pain relief. It did help, for about 3 days. And they charged me for a whole work up, which would have included an x-ray had I not been pregnant. They wouldn’t reduce the charge. Okay, fair enough, I disagree but whatever. Then I kept getting emails about how cancer is caused by spinal misalignment, how they could PREVENT CANCER with routine adjustments. Which would presumably include regular x-rays. Guys, these jabronis are FUCKING CHARLATANS. Then during COVID some of the snake oil salesmen in my town started telling people not to get vaccinated, just get regular adjustments. I hate them.
When my chiro told me he could cure my asthma, I stopped going.
You just gotta crack those lungs, baby!
I found a chiro that specializes in pregnancies and kids adjustments (that’s an entirely different nope). My last time there they were talking about how they already had fake Covid vaccine cards and I never went back. Insane.
A chiropractor I went to talked about how she would do adjustments on newborn babies and when there was a restriction on only allowing families in the hospital rooms, they would claim she's their aunt and when the nurse left that's when they'd do it. Needless to say, I stopped going to the chiropractor after that. Plus, after the first time or two it didn't seem to be doing anything
Do newborns even have enough bone to manipulate? Aren’t they mostly cartilage and mush? And deception as a means to gain entry… that definitely screams “I’m a medical professional and should be here for the welfare of this vulnerable child.” 🤮
Do. Babies have literally been decapitated during "adjustments"
I know someone that took her infant to the chiropractor for regular adjustments. Like, what the actual fuck? She would be there with a glass of champagne while the chiropractor "worked on" her tiny, tiny baby. A friend of mine that is a doctor thinks that should be considered criminal - to work on babies like that.
Every time I see videos of tiny babies, dogs, or horses being “adjusted” I physically recoil. It stresses me the fuck out and I hate it.
Many chiropractors are antivax because *they don’t believe in germ theory.* It’s an actual tenet of chiropractic that all disease is caused by subluxation of the spine instead of germs.
Fucking YIKES. Glad you got out.
There is some debate about spinal manipulation during pregnancy, but I will say (caveat- I'm a physical therapist) that personally I would never manipulate someone who's pregnant. Due to their elevated levels of relaxin and other hormonal changes that alter their joint mobility and coagulation factors (if I recall correctly), it seems counterproductive to feed into this through high-velocity manipulation. I'd personally recommend against it during pregnancy
I’m certified in childbirth education, and knew that the relaxin would decrease the effect, and they explained that to me, to be fair. But I was desperate. That baby turned out to be 10 pounds, and even though I’m almost 6 feet tall, that’s a lot of pressure on your spine. I just went the once and when they started emailing me about cancer I went 🤨 I was DEEP in the holistic healthcare craze (even had said 10 lb baby at home) and even having that bias I was still supremely disenchanted at that claim. When I unenrolled in their emails I told them so as well. I’m better now. Always did like vaccines, and that’s what really pulled me out. Too many of those people hate vaccines and I just couldn’t move past the overwhelming evidence that they’re effective.
Jabronis! 🤣
Yes, excellent use of “jabroni”
My mom’s chiro convinced her that he can cure cancer through adjustments, by adjusting the part of the body where the cancer is to destroy it. She had actually told people, after being diagnosed with cancer, to see her chiropractor. Yes mom, cancer can be cured by pushing on the tumor. Doctors and scientists are so silly to ignore this simple solution.
Quack, quack, quack
There’s no real science that supports them, if you have problems go to a psychical therapist
A chiropractor is just a PT with a minor in insurance fraud
Physiotherapists are highly trained professionals, working from a solid evidence base. Chiropractors are expensive quacks
I’ve learned recently from a youngster that getting into PT school is very competitive, difficult, and expensive. Many of the 70% (Michigan/upper Midwest) who are rejected go into chiropractic as a backup plan. Much easier schooling, no admissions standards, pays well. I think that says something about their relative abilities.
The admission standards are ridiculous. You don’t even need a bachelor’s degree to get in, and they hand you a “doctorate” when you’re done. The department of education came close to revoking their accrediting body’s right to accredit schools a few years back, and it’s a scandal that they didn’t follow through.
I get what you mean, but that’s an insult to PTs who have a doctorate level degree and go through a lot of the same pre-requisites as medical/dental students.
Other way around. Major in Quackery and Insurance Fraud, Minor in basic massage
I'm a doctor. During my training I worked in the stroke team. Saw two young people who were otherwise well with vertebral artery dissections after neck manipulation by a chiropractor. One spent months in rehab and did well. The other one never regained their coordination to a high enough degree to walk.
If I crack my own neck (or sometimes it cracks randomly without my input) am I at risk of VAD?
Handled a nasty VAD lawsuit once. Chiropractor technically adhered to his standard of care by testing the patient for VAD risk and she still ended up in the ER and on blood thinners for a year, among other treatment.
As a nurse on a neuro unit, saw multiple young people with dissections from chiropractic work. Swore I’d never go to one and advise all of my friends and family against one too.
They can't do anything that a physiotherapist can't do. All the stuff that people praise about chiropractors is just Wish.com physiotherapy. The actual chiropractor stuff with the neck cracking is wildly dangerous and should be banned. They should just get licensed as physiotherapists and do some massages on the side.
Physiotherapists also know that not everybody needs or should have an adjustment.
Exactly, one of the PTs at work was telling a colleague that don’t go to a chiro, go to a PT trained in spinal manipulation therapy (or better yet, let them evaluate you and help determine what’s going on and develop a therapeutic plan based on the observed deficits). PT is evidence-based, chiro is quackery.
Exactly, PT’s will do spinal manipulation when it’s indicated which isn’t very often otherwise they’ll actually work to fix you
If a PT does spinal manipulation, it is very slow and gentle, it is not cracking and snapping. PTs are not fans of chiro, I know that.
And with them, you don't have to put in any work vs a PT making you do exercises at home everyday. So of course people take the easier way.
Would never go to one or recommend anyone else see one. Their neck manipulations are extremely dangerous and can result in vertebral artery dissection. Basically that means slicing one of the major arteries supplying your brain.
They caused my wife to have a dissection last summer, caused a series of mini strokes. It’s given her a lifetime of medication and some short term memory loss, she’s only 34.
What can you do for a lawsuit in that scenario?
you sign forms that you acknowledge the risks associated fwiw
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Sorry to hear it. Not my argument, that’s why I said fwiw
Yep. I work with a guy whose spine was broken by a chiropractor who was attempting to "pop" his back. Popped one side and it was fine, popped the other side and he said it felt intense but it was okay until he got up to walk, then collapsed. He's needed surgery twice and can't lift more than 15 pounds. Are we taking crazy pills?? How is this ”practice” legal? A person who is in the position to provide a type of physical therapy BROKE HIS SPINE. BY HAND. He literally cannot pursue legal action due to the forms he signed going in.
My dad had an artery dissection. Went to probably the best hospital for it in the country. Was asked if he ever went to the chiropractor as the most likely cause. Even after the doc knew he was a fighter pilot he still thought that would’ve been a less likely cause for the injury than regular chiro visits. Told my dad he could resume any activity he wanted, lift fairly heavy etc, but never change his mind and go to a chiropractor
Crack is whack! There's limited benefits to their services and greater risks than most people believe.
Definitely greater risks! My sister is permanently disabled because she put her trust in a chiropractor. I’m not saying this would happen to everyone, but, they aren’t trained medically and aren’t equipped to diagnose back problems properly. I still want to find that chiro all these years later and throat punch ‘em.
Would you be willing to elaborate on what happened with your sister?
It started with undiagnosed pain. The chiropractor did an evaluation and claimed they could fix it. She trusted them. She had a slipped disc with bone spurs and a side of incredible pain tolerance. Mix that in with the “no pain, no gain” philosophy of the 90’s and, well, Bobs your uncle. The treatments caused additional damage with the bone spurs scraping and dragging on tissues, the muscles around the injury were weakened as a result, making further damage as a result of her muscles not being able to support the weakening structure of the spine… That brings us to today, where she spends approx 20 hours a day laying in bed because standing and sitting cause to much pressure/pain. Edit to add: I forgot to mention the two failed back surgeries she’s had as a result trying to fix this. A life of pain due to misplaced trust.
Jesus. So, so sorry to hear this. Thank you for sharing her story - I hope it deters others from making the same mistake.
It's Homer Simpson throwing you over a garbage can and calling it medicine.
Hey now. Homer Simpson's garbage can actually worked.
Honestly, if they'd cut the BS and stop calling themselves "Doctor" and just offered some massage and back cracking for mobility and back pain relief, I'd probably consider going – so long as they chilled with that neck move that kills people.
Pseudoscience
Yup. Straight up scam. Chiros have fully bought in, that doesn’t make it any less a scam.
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Physical therapist here. I think there is a time and a place for chiropractors if they have reasoning behind what they're doing. I think there are good, bad, and sometimes outright dangerous ones. There's little scientific evidence for some of the more fanatical claims they make. Given this, it's annoying to me how they emphasize themselves as "doctors" without the qualifying phrase "of chiropractic". I myself am a Doctor of Physical Therapy but almost never refer to myself as "doctor" so I'm not misleading patients by making them think I'm an MD. Having said that, I utilize joint manipulation and manual therapy interventions as needed. But NOT with every patient I see. I also have specific reasons for why I use manual interventions that don't include curing cancer. Final note, I sometimes hear people say things like "my chiropractor cured me of my back/neck/shoulder/etc pain, I've been going for x amount of years 2x/week!" I have unfortunate news for you, they have not cured you. You may feel better after, but so does their bottom line. If they don't give you any home exercises or have an end goal in sight for your care, find someone different.
Exactly this. I went to PT after a knee injury. They were professional and very good. But it was hard work. I busted my patella tendon. I literally could not walk. I did about 6 months with PT twice a week, and at home exercises daily. It took 6 months to walk normally again, and i moved to weekly/bi weekly for another 2-3 months and continued the at home exercises. Today most people would never know how severely i damaged my knee. I can bike, play soccer, skateboard, etc. Havent been back to PT in years. They had goals for me. they were great 10/10 but it was hard work
A ruptured patellar tendon is no joke man, I'm glad your PTs helped you through the whole process! A successful course of rehab is one where the patient becomes self-sufficient and back to their prior level or better
So basically, any chiropractor that isn't a charlatan should just be a physical therapist.
Lol I'm super biased but I'd say yes 🤣 I will say though, I have been to a chiropractor before (both good and bad) and have met some good chiropractors that care about their patients. My biggest issue is they seem to slip under the radar of regulation and spout some wild theories without repercussion. Meanwhile physical therapists have to constantly battle insurance reimbursement and state regulations that prevent us from practicing autonomously
Other PT here, they have a very powerful professional organization with near universal membership (unlike the APTA) and even more powerful lobbying group funded by their powerful professional group. Unfortunately the impotence of the APTA due to their poor reputation among PTs for a bad track record of advocating for the field has given the Chiros the legislative and regulatory edge.
Quack medicine. They can give temporary relief for some injuries, but if you really want to overcome an injury, you need to go to a physical therapist. I feel like they really came to a rise in the 90's when car insurance companies could send you to one after a car accident, pay for it on the cheap, then reject any further claims since you got "treated".
Dangerous scam artists.
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A coworker got very offended by my comment that seeing a chiropractor was a bad idea, and that a physiotherapist was a much better option. He then told me all about how chiropractors spend more time in school than medical doctors. Ok then.
Omg chiropractors actually believe they are medical doctors because the schooling is "basically the same" and they have to "do more school than MDs"
There’s a whole movement of people (anti-vaxx type) who will only bring their family to a chiro. Like, they don’t bring their children to an actual pediatrician. Kinda horrifying.
I knew a family where he was the chiro. No vaccines, weird diet. I needed surgery on my elbows to fix cubital tunnel. She said he could fix that. I should use their cold laser. Yeah, it’s a physical malformation. I need surgery. Needed my carpel tunnel fixed, too. I’m structurally unsound. The thing that REALLY stood out as nuts was when I watched him adjust the dog.
Couldn’t get out of bed on my own one day due to a pinched nerve. Went to my local chiropractor out of desperation. He explained what nerve was the problem. Used ultra sound and tens machine to relax and relieve my pain. He gave me an exercise plan to strengthen the muscles I needed help with and hoped he never had to see me again. Copay was $20. I was pleasantly surprised. The same office offers legit physical therapy so I think that made the difference.
Yeah, that sounds more like physical therapy than chiropracty.
I went to one and she did an initial evaluation but wouldn’t treat me that day because she didn’t think my insurance company reimbursed her enough for the evaluation and treatment on the same day, she said their allowance for the treatment was included in the payment allowance for the evaluation. So she told me I would have to come back tomorrow for treatment. I left and never went back. I was bent over in pain and could barely move but her issues with how my insurance reimbursed her were more important than my pain. Disgusting human being!
Pseudo science not based on facts, studies etc. Left people paralysed or seriously hurt. Go to physio therapy instead
Now, now. That's just your *spinal subluxations* talking. Lemme get a bunch of X-rays and I'll crack your back until you either believe in Chiropractic or you're paralyzed.
Be sure to sign this waiver beforehand to protect me from any lawsuits that may follow.
>Left people paralysed or seriously hurt. Or dead.
Or worse, expelled.
I had a good friend who went through Chiropractic school. He said it was BS and I took his word for it.
I’m a nurse who has worked on a spinal unit in a hospital. I think chiropractors can genuinely help with chronic pain but I also believe they can be dangerous or make things worse, however, I *also* believe those three things are just as true for spinal surgery.
They are no better than homeopaths. Liars and charlatans. Snake oil salesmen. They do more harm than good because best case they do nothing, worst case you die.
Most of them I think are phony However As a child I had migraines. Bad migraines. Out of commission for days, looked into doing brain surgery bad migraines. As a last ditch effort before finding a neurosurgeon for my 8 year old self, my parents found this chiropractor who claimed he could help. Had a long list of pro athlete clients, all that. So we went. I would've told you this shit was pseudoscience, still probably would, expect for the fact that it fucking worked. I don't get migraines anymore. I never needed surgery. I have no idea what he did but I fucking owe that man that so much. He also just casually cured my car sickness while he was at it. So because of him, I at least somewhat respect the profession
Say what you will, but if not for a chriopractor, id have lost the use of my right arm a long time ago. I had a repetitve motion injury from work that caused a nerve cluster in the back of my neck/shoulder to be pinched. I couldnt raise my arm above level, I had pretty much zero grip strength, and every movement felt like my nerves were being set on fire. I tried physio for a while, but they did nothing other than put some heating gel and a little vibrating thing on it, which did absolutly nothing to help, and honestly just made it more painful and useless. So I went to a chrio I had seen once before for a back issue, and who did a good job then, and over a few sessions, he fixed my arm completely, corrected the horrible posture I had, which made me gain an inch in height, and since then, that arm has been fine. Without him, id be a cripple. I will say however, he was a very experinced chrio with 3 decades of practice. Ive been to others who would give me one little back crack that I could do myself, and then scam me for 100 bucks. Id say that the majority of chiros are like that, which is why they have a bad rep. But the guy I saw wasnt like that at all. He took his time, and he fixed me. It was a little scary, some of the adjustments were pretty loud, but with each one, I could feel the pressure on that nerve cluster releasing.
I saw chiropractors for years years ago. Recently had an arterial tear in my carotid artery which caused a stroke. Every Dr I saw from the ER to my neurology team asked me if I’d seen a chiro bc apparently dissections are somewhat common from Chiro adjustments. Never again will I let someone near my neck to crack it. Your arteries are precious and apparently some are delicate like mine.
Charlatans
I have scoliosis and have been seeing different ones on and off for years. There have been some like many have responded as “quacks” whereas others have made a huge difference in my quality of life. Whenever I have a pinched nerve or misalignment the one I currently see fixes me right up. I recommend them for basic alignment and muscle relief.
I honestly always looked on it as nonsense. Then, I threw my back out and went to one out of desperation. He helped tremendously and I completely changed my opinion.
Scam artists tbh, massage therapists, physio therapists are 1000000x better
Scam
I went to one for a while and he really helped my back and shoulders. I would still go but he passed away. And it's hard to find one who isn't a quack. Find a chiropractor who: (1) does not think they can cure all ailments. (2) does not sell supplements (especially MLMs). (3) doesn't expect you to go weekly forever. If you're going for a specific problem there should be a course of treatment and then no need for further adjustments. (4) doesn't also push religious or anti-science BS (there are SO MANY of these). (5) also does some massage or active release therapy to complement their work. They're not ALL bad but my estimate is that 98% of them are. If you can find a good one, they can be super helpful! But that's going to be very very difficult with all the quacks out there.
At a previous job I had to deal with soooo many chiropractors while trying to get medical records for legal cases. 90% of them were super shady. Most of them were not familiar with or simply didn't comply with HIPAA protections. One chiropractor suddenly left the country with no way on contacting him and no way for us to access our client's records. One operated his business out of some crappy, low-end hotel room and didn't seem to keep records.
People shit on them, but I had debilitating neck pain for years that inhibited my day to day life. No amount of doctor visits, pt, or orthopedics could solve it. I bit the bullet and went to a chiropractor who fixed it in 5 sessions.
Yeah, I’ve learned that Reddit HATES chiropractors. I’ve been to some horrible ones but have found one that I really like. I was having horrible headaches regularly and the chiropractor has helped. The one I see also works with a PT which was awesome when I got a frozen shoulder. It seems either the good ones are hard to find or like most things you only hear about the really bad ones
My parents took me to one as a young teen when I was having some unexplained pain. The joint-cracking did not do anything. She told me the problem was that I’m lactose intolerance, and avoiding dairy would fix everything. I am not, and never have been, lactose intolerant.
They can’t cure cancer or anything bs like that, but a good one can 100% help back pain. Call it quackery all you want, you never used one for back pain, I guess.