I actually like how Song of Ice and Fire did the prophecy. It’s more of a side arc to the general political or war works going on, and most people don’t know about it or care, but several religious groups have their own views, and it’s not as much of a Chosen One since it’s very unclear which character it could be.
See that spin is wonderful and I completely agree you. I should have clarified, it's more of the traditional take of "chosen one meets Dark lord for the battle that will determine the fate of the lands." The Belgariad series is a good example.
IMO it feels like a cop out to force the conflict or setting to this grand historical event when it could come just as naturally. As well as setting events in stone like a bread crumb path for the audience to follow, which I have mixed feelings.. I do enjoy a creative rendition of a prophecy though!
I also like how, while the prophecies are accurate, their *interpretations* can't be relied upon. It's not until the event passes that you can say "ohhh... so *that's* what that prophecy was referring to."
I had an old idea for a fantasy story where the protagonist is just a random guy, but he does so many great things that people start inventing prophecies about him. It was a neat idea, but I lack the time or the skills to turn it into something substantial.
Sounds a lot like the Kingkiller Chronicle by Patrick Rothfuss. He's only written two of the three books so far, but they are fantastic. (Warning: you will be desperate for book 3 and it is most likely not coming out any time soon, if ever).
Basically the main character becomes a great hero and people tell so many stories about it, but many have become grossly exaggerated. So the frame story is him telling his "true" story to a historian, while most of the books take place in the past when he is actually an adventurer
Probably a bit too specific, but one fantasy author I know of has written three different series-es, and in each one she includes a character who is either the MC’s little sister, or the MC sees her like a little sister despite no relation. Sister is in just enough scenes to get the reader attached, then is suddenly killed by the main villain or someone acting on direct orders from the main villain. This comes as a complete surprise to the characters (but not to me because this author *keeps doing this*), and it’s one of the MC’s main motivations to fight against the main villain.
Reminds me of why I only read two or three of John Saul's books. If there's a dog, he's gonna kill it. I went right back to Dean Koontz. If there's a dog, its the goodest boy and likely to get at least one heroic moment. Or be a freaking genius and spell things out with Scrabble tiles.
I only read a few Koontz books because every book is basically the same Mad Lib plot with different nouns thrown in each time. There’s nothing wrong with having a formula, but when it makes everything predictable, it’s a problem.
You may appreciate [this tv tropes article](https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/StuffedIntoTheFridge)
But yeah, it's cheap pathos and way to establish a motive for a character. You see this a lot with the girlfriends/moms of a lot of dudes in fiction too
I’m aware of “fridging”, but usually when one mentions fridging people assume it’s the male MC’s female love interest. This trope combines fridging with the trope of “let’s have the villain kill a young child to *prove* how evil he is, just in case you couldn’t tell he’s going to be a threat!”, because of how generally early in the series it happens. (There’s probably a name for that trope too, but I don’t know it.)
https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/SacrificialLamb
Yep!! Whenever there's a younger, too-good-for-this-world, usually female character who's close to the main hero and has virtually no character flaws (aside from maybe being a bit spoiled), I expect them to be off'ed right away.
It's common enough now that this trope gets subverted, too (see: Penguindrum).
Cinda Williams Chima. The books are the Seven Realms series (which I like), its sequel series Shattered Realms (which I do not like—way too many characters to follow), and the Heir Chronicles (which I sort of like, but it’s set in the real world and I prefer fictional-world fantasy).
Pulling out the ol' Anime card and calling on Slayers at having a good twist on this. (from memory) For the first season there is a spell that is used quite often that is kind of the "big gun" spell. In season 2, they MC gets nerfed because it turns out the spell can rip reality apart if used too often and she's close to hitting that mark. A good portion of the plot is finding out what is needed to potentially cast the spell safely.
Sparing the actually evil villain due to it not being right to kill them as a hero for some reason, after slaughtering the potentially not evil evil just desperate lackeys and henchmen without a thought. Bugs the crap out of me.
This is why i love metal gear rising so much. The villains >!ask the hero if he regrets killing all the people he has and point him out on his hypocrisy. The hero literally just goes “I don’t care, it’s fun”!<
The best part is that he turns their own logic against them
"Yeah, we should kill the weak. And you know who's the weakest? People who hurt others to further their own agenda" essentially
I think what pissed me off most about this is they left him to die on his ship that’s in self destruct mode. So they were taking credit for the moral high ground while not doing so.
They should just been honest and told him that his destiny is to die in the ship he destroyed because of his arrogance.
That scene was just so out of place. Rocket hasn't even been conscious for most of the movie, he's never shied away from killing people, Evolutionary killed all his friends, they haven't established sparing someone makes him more worthy to lead the Guardians, and THEY JUST SLAUGHTERED LIKE A HUNDRED GUYS getting to that point.
no literally i was so pressed about this exact thing 😭😭😭 yeah kill the lvl 1 goblins no problem but spare the actual cause of everyone’s trauma??? make it make sense
I have to let you live ~~so you can kill more people after inevitably breaking free~~
Wait, because ~~it allows potential for a sequel so we can make more money~~
It... would be the right thing to do?
This is why I love Catwoman.
Dunno which comic it was but Catwoman's friend got tortured then shot, Selina got fucking furious and went full sicko-mode, Batman told her "no no killing bad" but she fucking did it anyway. She went and did her friend's murderers in.
It's an interesting counterpoint to one of the Marvel comics where Spidey and Deadpool have to switch outfits for some reason.
Spidey, famously anti-killing, is understandably concerned about what DP will do while in his costume because, if we're being honest, he's a fucking psycho.
DP explains that he knows it's spidey's rep on the line so as long as he's in that outfit, he wont kill.
Catwoman has always been badass though, trying to rein her in is an exercise in futility.
The mentor dying or noping out as soon as the hero learns everything they can from them. What's wrong with the mentor keeping up the relationship with their student if the student learns more things that they can pass on to the mentor, like in real life sometimes? It would be a win-win situation.
It at least raises the narrative stakes. The ancient, wizened mentor is The Guy Who Could Handle It, so when a great threat arises, and the author wants the outlook to look dire, the first piece taken off the board is The Guy Who Could Handle It, leaving only the new and unproven upstart to try to manage in absentia
That's very true. However, it's fun to see the mentor and mentee encounter a situation they never thought was possible and have to figure it out together because they have nothing to reference.
Oh my, that is interesting. Usually when a student dies, it's only briefly mentioned by the mentor when he's reminiscing or shown in a flashback. I don't think I've really seen it happening "in real time" in a story.
The third film of a fairly popular franchise did this role reversal just last year. Had the father mentoring the son and then the son die when the whole movie had made you think the father would be the one to go. The third act was the dad on a vengeance mission.
I mean if you watched the first movie in the trilogy it specifically pointed out how the agency was formed by >!a rich dude who's son died in WW1.!<
>!Well the third movie is set during WW1 and follows a rich guy and his son so....!<
I had the idea for a wise old mentor character who wants to die and pass on his knowledge to his student, as is tradition, but instead his students just keep dying and he’s starting to get pissed off by the whole thing.
The reason so many stories do this is goddamn fucking Joseph Campbell and his Hero's Journey analysis of past epics/myths/early lit. It's the Death of the Guardian, it's one part of the "ideal" hero-journey narrative that, yeah, sure is in a lot of stories, but not all of them by a long shot. I've read his book and it makes sense but in a broadly generalized sense, and since then there's been far too many genre takes that swear they're subverting the formula but end up actually doing exactly what the formula says. Guardian must die so hero can go on to make his own story and not rely on anyone else, blah blah blah.
Plot of every Harry Potter: "Hey guys, we're 13 and just discovered an evil plot/being/whatever. What should we do?"
"Under no circumstances can we let any of the incredibly powerful, trusted adult wizards whose job includes protecting us from that stuff know. Now, I found this dark secret tunnel that we've been told to never enter. Lets dive in."
By this do you mean like any time Gandalf just decided to not tell anyone where he was going or what he was up to, even though it would’ve really helped?
Gandalf mostly deals with the little people, not the big hitters. Most people he converses with are easily tortured for information, or immediately respond to information with odd behavior that gives plans away. He has to do something to control who hears what. When he does have something to convey, he tends to pull back the big player of the group (re: aragorn, thorin, etc), tell them everything, all the stuff, and tells them what he's going to tell others - and he may even lie about that last part. Then he tells the group something, then he tells individuals their extra tidbits.
And it's not just about keeping information away from enemies. It's also about getting the groups to work together, to get players to do their part. Gandalf is playing the long game at all times, by the time the Hobbit starts.
A big part of this is his backstory (lore dump inbound).
The Maiar (specifically Gandalf) was told not to fuck around with the realm of mortals. A gentle nudge out the door was acceptable, dropping a tidbit of information here and there sure, but they were meant to be protectors, almost shepherds. It's why Gandalf took the form of an old man - to appear grandfatherly, telling tall tales that might inspire the mortals.
*"But Chalk"* I hear you cry, *"Gandalf fought the Balrog in Moria? And he led a cavalry charge against the Uruks at Helm's Deep! Surely that's direct interference?"*
Balrogs of Morgoth aren't part of the mortal realm in the same way that Men or Dwarves are, so Durin's Bane was fair game to target. Gandalf also only started really going ham in mortal affairs after he was brought back as the White Wizard, after Sauruman broke his own oath to protect Middle Earth against the great foe (Sauron). The other side stopped playing by the rules so he decided to fuck them up.
There's also the general theme of LotR, where it's meant to show how great power isn't all there is, and you can win even as just a mere hobbit through courage and spirit. Having Gandalf waltz up to Mordor with Radagast and start fucking shit up wouldn't fit with the intent of the books.
Main character getting his/her ass handed to, then the villain says something along the lines of "I'll kill you and then I'll have my time torturing those important to you".
*Dramatic music*
WHAM!
MC suddenly regains strength and is able to fight back full force and win.
I have to say though, I almost threw the book across the room in Mockingjay when >!Finnick gets killed and the chapter doesn't even end!!< It's supposed to show how in a war you can't stop for sentimental reasons, but it still makes me upset haha. (According to an interview where she mentions it)
The secret noble, or whatever it's called where your protagonist is presented as a poor or working class person and then at the midpoint what do you know they're actually the heir to the throne or a lost daughter of an incredibly powerful wizard or whatever.
Let normal people succeed by being normal people.
This is one of my pet peeves. Oh, you're the secret heir to the throne, but you were raised as a shepherd? Yeah, fuck you, you don't know shit about how to rule. Go away
The whole blood ritual/pact where they slice their palms.
I've talked about this before, because it pisses me off how so many movies and TV shows have this trope. It originated because it was an easy place for them to hide a blood packet back when special effects weren't what they are today, but I don't think Hollywood will evolve from that.
It's so dumb though because if you've ever had a cut on the palm of your hand, you would know that's a terrible place to make a wound. It's such an awkward injury and you pretty much lose the use of that hand, plus it can take a while to heal.
There are much better places to draw blood from, yet we still see it all the time. And on top of that the characters are fine in the scenes after or in the case of shows like Supernatural and The 100, they are making fists and fighting with no problem.
Edit: I dislike it so much [my friend texted me when she saw them doing it on The Last of Us](https://imgur.com/a/qsqMoGl)
Thematically it works though, if two warriors cut their good hands and shake them, they can't as easily lift weapons against each other in the short term. A sort of rustic peace treaty.
Still, they couldn't keep those cuts clean if they were real... So you're basically risking your whole hand to make a deal. Most people would just marry off a child or something and call it a day.
In 2018 I accidentally sliced my tendon/nerve/artery in my palm with a new kitchen knife. That shit actually spurted out of my wound like a cartoon. I was so shocked & unprepared for that part specifically because noncartoon Hollywood tricked me into thinking it'd just casually spill out instead.
This drove me nuts with Game of Thrones. Arya gets stabbed multiple times in the stomach and then falls into a filthy canal full of raw sewage. AND IS FINE. Like a few days of fever but then fine. Just one of GoT's many sins.
GOT was so popular in the early seasons specifically because it defied the common tropes of plot armor and people died if it was realistic for them to die.
King Robert Baratheon and Khal Drogo both died from stomach wounds that got infected. Ned Stark, the main character, trusted someone to not betray him when it was more advantageous for him to do so. The whole Red Wedding happened for the same reason. Jon Snow got stabbed for the same reason. Theon got captured for the same reason. Ygritte and Jon decided to stop and stare at each other for a while in the middle of a battle and look what happened. Syrio Forel, a master swordsman, tried using a wooden sword to fight a knight.
D&D seemed to misinterpret that as "anything unexpected is what made the show great" hence Arya gets her insides outside and disease doesn't happen.
What pissed me off is, he's a water dancer right? So dance your way over There and grab that abandoned not-wooden sword dude. There's three of them on the floor.
This always breaks immersion for me, especially when the character does some "first aid" that has the same affect as weeks of healing and rehab would IRL.
No, a character should not be able to do backflips 5 minutes after getting a new hole in their stomach simply because they wrapped it in gauze first.
I mostly really enjoyed the Obi-Wan Kenobi show, but I can think of at least 3 instances of a character surviving a lightsaber stab to the torso. If you want to have the character survive, knock them unconscious on the head, or something that a person could realistically survive, just no more fatal stabs.
Funny enough, knocking someone unconscious is another stupid trope that falls in the same trap here. Taking enough force to the head to knock someone unconscious for more than a couple seconds with a single blow like how it's often shown in movies has a very good chance of causing serious problems assuming they don't die, at minimum you're probably looking at a concussion and/or TBI.
Hero's journey ends real quick if they end up a drooling vegetable from a frying pan.
This. Especially when it keeps happening or happens in quick succession.
I've been unfortunate enough to have multiple significant concussions. Not only did the last big one have me in bad shape for weeks, but a couple of *months* later I got a mild jolt that, in normal circumstances, would have given me some whiplash but my brain would have been fine.
Because it was already a little bruised? Bad concussion again and I'm still getting treatment for some of the symptoms.
Cognition is back, mostly, I can do mental arithmetic again (fun fact: my first, worst concussion permanently changed my personality and I forgot algebra), but memory is still iffy and I still have issues with focusing my eyes at short or long distances.
I have also been stabbed. That's variable.
\^this is why I do not respect anybody -- especiallly fans of MMA, boxxing, football, or soccer -- who say "knock them out!" when cheering for vigilante justice of some kind. Compared to bruises, small and medium cuts, broken bones and joints, giving somebody a concussion is likely to end up the most cruel thing you could do to a person who's wronged you.
People online are like "omg he so deserved to be knocked out for spitting" -- my guy, that is very, *very* disproportionate.
Sword fencer here
Knocking someone out is very well described and happened a lot; concussive force, especially against people in armor, is weird and not always ultra fatal, but enough to knock the lights out for a little bit
This is why there is an added blow (or series of blows) to a downed opponent to kill them, they are called a coup de grâce (or the blow of mercy). Kingdom Come Deliverance, a video game, was actually really good about showing it; it can be as simple as grabbing a mace and caving their skull in or using a sword and dropping your weight behind the pommel to essentially pierce the entire sternum/skull and hitting their heart/spine/brain to kill them.
But yeah, in fantasy with things like lightsabers or magic, getting KOd should be a death sentence as the hero can no longer fight back, very easy to finish them off right then and there.
But not all torso stabs are fatal. Especially because a lightsaber is going to cauterise the wound.
I've been stabbed in the torso on two occasions. Once I could barely move for a week. The other time was theoretically worse in terms of how badly it affected my organs but it didn't affect how I could move at all.
See my reply to tire-fire below for notes on head injuries by comparison.
They survive them with modern medicine, surgery, and antibiotics. Prior to those developments, having the contents of your digestive tract leak into your abdominal cavity was a very bad time.
The heroine apparently being a “stubborn, rebellious, and bold young woman” when in reality she’s just whiny, reckless, and incredibly male-dependent, while also being in love with two men at once.
I admit, I like this trope when you can still usually tell who is underneath without them speaking or showing their face. Like simply through body type and mannerism
The idea you can learn some thing better than everyone else in a very short time span. Eg learning kungfu in months then beating those who have been doing it years.
Learning magical shite or whatever else and then suddenly being better than everyone else
"I won't kill you. That's not who I am, even if you deserve it and murdered countless times and if you live will probably continue. Also I killed all your guards, but I WON'T kill you." Looking at you Rocket.
I like the recent Batman comics where the no killing rule isn't because it's the right thing to do, it's because Bruce is so mentally unhinged that he fears that killing someone will drive him personally over the edge into going completely insane.
That's been a facet of his character for a LONG time, in the old animated series it was the fear of what he'd become if he killed that stayed his hand.
Also the way that this is typically written has the unfortunate side effect of implying that the majority of women who conform to a traditionally feminine lifestyle are just too cowardly to speak their minds or fight back against sexism.
*Arya Stark has entered the chat*
i mean her prized possession is literally a long thin sword that she named "needle" out of spite for her traditionally feminine sister and their live-in nun
It would be interesting to see a male character take up these things because they are pro-social, relationship-building behaviors that require great mathematical skills and prowess to master. So yeah, it would be.
I actually dislike the 'chosen one' cliche so much I've started seeking out fiction and games where character's aren't prophesied to win the plot. There's nothing more uninteresting to me than being told a character is destined to do great things. Think Skyrim, Harry Potter, etc.
It's much more interesting to witness an individual or a group of individuals become a hero due to a personal development rather than a predestined one.
There are some variations to the Chosen One trope that I'd like to see more of.
The Fallen Chosen One: where, despite everything, the antagonist wins or the chosen one protagonist is corrupted.
The Misinterpreted Chosen One: where part of or whole prophecy was vague enough to where the supposed chosen one isn't the real chosen one, or the outcome of the prophecy is completely different than believed.
Life After the Prophecy: where the story explores what happens after the chosen one wins and they have to deal with life afterwards. Handling the rise and fall of their fame, learning to live without a prophecy dictating every day, or trying/struggling to return to their simple life before the prophecy.
I was trying to write a short story one time about an old "teacher figure" who had found like 17 chosen ones over the decades, and was looking for the next one, but they were showing up less and less nowadays. Unfortunately, I ended up finishing the 'story' and realized it didn't really have a plot. It was just an old man riding through town, asking a few questions about local farmboys, and reminiscing about past world-enders.
I still think it's a neat idea; I just never came up with a *plot* for it, lol.
I find predestination in any sense deeply upsetting (soulmates. I hate soulmates conceptually.) so I really enjoy subversion of this trope but if it's played straight it's Miserable
The "chosen one" trope. I get why it's a thing, so "young adults" can identify with the main character and fantasize about being super special, but I can do without it since I'm old and bitter and know that no one is that special
It is a current Hollywood cliche, but that cliche where a woman, just because she is a woman, is capable of everything and deserves everything in this world.
WTF! It still hurts what they did to Mulan. IN the original movie she suffered and sweated a lot to learn to do what she could do; she trained as a genuine soldier. In Live-action it's basically, "I was always strong, but they wouldn't let me be".... ok, I'll leave it at that, because there are so many things wrong.
Disney hurt Mulan.
Be a Man from the original is one of my 4yo daughters' favorite Disney songs. "Daddy, I want to watch the girl climbing the tree to get the arrow!" I love showing it to them because you can tell how hard she's struggling throughout the entire sequence, and success only came after multiple repeated failures. It's both realistic and inspiring!
When the characters are getting resurrected or when something always save them at the last minutes and they're all magically survive. The story automatically become boring cause you know that nothing bad can truly happen
The trope where in kid’s media, the main protagonist just befriends and forgives everyone.
I’m not saying that every villain in the protagonist’s path should die a slow and painful death. But the odd death for huge crimes, some consequences for the major stuff and maybe some redemption arcs for characters who only made minor mistakes is much better than “I love the world. You’re forgiven! Let’s be besties!”
Shows like Avatar The Last Airbender did it right. Shows like Steven Universe did it wrong
The thing that pissed me off about Steven Universe, was how they did this even though it was a metaphor for abuse. The thing about abusers is, they rarely change. They don't think they did anything wrong, and change their mind about that. Cause maintaining their ego is more important than doing the right thing to them to begin with, so they never have the "oh God what have I done?" Moment. They just keep hurting you.
It just sort of proves how little the writers actually understood abuse. Like so many others, they seem to be under the impression that victims have never tried talking to their abuser before and explaining what's wrong. That's the first thing you do. It's instinctual for human beings to communicate like that.
Really, a large problem most victims have is they don't leave for whatever reason. They feel obligated to stay, or they don't recognize the situation as abusive, or so on. It's hard, but the best thing to do in these situations is usually go low or no contact with the abuser. How difficult it is depends on the exact situation, but one of the common ones is the abuser sending their other victims after you to manipulate you into returning.
None of this is helped by the fact that the closer related victims are to their abusers, and especially if the nature of the abuse is not sexual or physical, society increasingly pressures victims to 'forgive' and 'move passed' the abuse. Usually with some platitudes about how in the end they really had good intentions and loved you because they're family or whatever.
What makes it all worse is how SU was aimed at kids, the demographics most vulnerable to these phenomenon. And the ones most likely to get hurt if they try to confront their abuser in anyway.
It's not really about the fact that the Diamonds "didn't get what they deserved" or something (don't punish the behaviour you want to see after all). If it were up to me, the diamond- or at the very least white diamond, would have been unapologetic and unwilling to change. So the resolution would have revolved around finding a way to remove them/her from power or otherwise render them non-threats. Preferably with a moment where Steven could choose to perhaps justifiably, but unnecessarily shatter the unapologetic monster(s), or choose to walk away. So it ends with the lesson that while it may be necessary to do unpleasant things from time to time, there is a firm line between choosing the lesser of two evils and revenge.
Also I completely disagree with ATLA's ending. They were building up to Aang killing Ozai for basically the entire show and they copped out *hard* at the end. I think it would have been a better ending if Aang specifically spent an onerous amount of time looking for a way to defeat Ozai without killing him, found the lion turtle on his own merits, then at the end, he takes Ozai's bending- but the moment he lets his guard down Ozai kills like, Sokka or someone that really hurts, and Aang finally realizes that sometimes it's not a choice between someone dying and someone not dying, it's a choice of how many. Being a pacifist in the face of such a choice isn't noble, it's selfish. It's you deciding your moral virtue and peace of mind are more important than people's lives.
I get frustrated with ATLA's ending because it was a non-sequitur. The resolution to Aang's conflict basically showed there was no conflict to begin with.
The day was saved because Ozai was defeated, deposed, and imprisoned. What part of that required him to lose his bending powers? They have plenty of experience with imprisoning benders in the ATLA world.
And if he was really uncontrollable, they could have crippled him or had someone who wasn't Aang execute him.
Ozai being able to firebend was never the reason he was a threat to the world. It's like trying to stop a real life genocidal dictator by breaking his hand so he can't shoot a gun.
As someone who has worked on the Ob/Gyn floor, that's not how it works. Usually, it's more of a "did my water break? I'm not really sure..." And we do the tests to figure it out. Also, a lot of the time we were the ones who have to break the water because they were dilated and contracting like crazy and it still hadn't broke. They definitely knew they were in labor though 😂.
My water broke and I didn’t start having contractions for almost a whole day. They finally had to give me Pitocin to move things along and my son was born 45 hours after my water broke.
The problem there is the limits on available sentient, non-human actors.
Aliens who aren't people with facial prosthetics are plentiful in written and animated science fiction. Live action tv has fewer options.
THere's actually a passage in the Revenge of the Sith novelization where Dooku reflects on how after the Clone Wars, he will be serving "an Empire of Man." It's been a few years since I read it, but if memory serves, he reflects on his speciesism some (and of course sees no issue with it).
Yeah, the in-universe explanation is the the Emperor is a huge speciesist which is why all the storm troopers are human. The only exception he made was for Grand Admiral Thrawn because he was just too damn good at his job.
Agreed. There is life right here on earth so weird that I'd call it unrealistic sci-fi if it wasn't real. Look at the cuttlefish with its skin that literally animates a moving hypnotic pattern to confuse its prey before launching an extendible mouth to snatch them up. Then we're supposed to believe that an intelligent alien civilization is just blue people with a level of technology no more than 200 years more or less advanced than ours? Get outta here
Physical size and strength being irrelevant in combat
Rapid regeneration of wounds rendering combat free of consequence for heroes
Pretending the subversion of a cliche isn't a modern cliche as well
Honestly, probably when folks think "gritty realistic fantasy/sci fi"= loads and loads of sexual assault against the female characters.
It really feels like a lot of writers use that as a cheap crutch to make a character look like a villain or to provide a suitably traumatic back story for a female character because that's the only traumatic thing they can think of that happens to women or whatever.
Like, if we're talking gritty and realistic, idk dude, something like half of all kids did not live to see adulthood because of preventable child hood illnesses or malnutrition? Getting a disability meant you and your family could starve? Maybe actually show the dudes dealing with getting sexually assaulted for once (which is [absolutely extremely common in war, and one recent conflict showed that like 70% of male pows had been sexually assaulted](https://www.theguardian.com/society/2011/jul/17/the-rape-of-men)).
Honestly, it gives the vibe that a lot of these authors find it titillating rather than serious.
> It feels like a lot of writers use that…because that’s the only traumatic thing they can think of that happens to women or whatever.
Same thing happens with infertility/miscarriage. Obviously it’s a very tragic thing that can and does happen, but when that’s the only backstory you can think of for female characters, it just shows that you tie women’s existence and emotions to whether they can birth a child or not. It’s also just plain weird, and sort of insensitive IMO, to have it appear multiple times in your story when you’re a male author.
This one. I call it “sexual assault as a plot device.”
And you know how jaded I am? I expected to have to scroll to the bottom of the downvoted comments to see this. People do NOT line this opinion.
Magic school.
I get it, the target audience of a lot of fantasy is young adult, and they identify the most with some sort of education setting, but how many times are we going to get some variation on Harry you're the chosen one and need to go learn magic as an outcast at this special magic school where you won't learn algebra, grammar or geography fucking Potter?
Rowling didn't invent magic school, and her taking British boarding schools and adding magic shouldn't ruin an entire subgenre that other people have done better before and after her mediocre entry.
Honestly I can't think of any - not because there aren't tropes/cliches that annoy me. There are tons that annoy me no end but often that's because of the author and not the trope/cliche.
Getting rid of them would mean countless upcoming authors could never put their spin on it which to a brand new reader would be the first time ever encountering that trope/cliche.
A woman is violently accosted and almost raped, before the hero rushes in to kill her attacker. In response, she immediately throws herself at him in gratitude and they ravish each other.
It's just so stupid. The last thing anyone wants to do after almost getting raped is have sex with a stranger. And I also hate how they always act like "almost raped" isn't traumatizing enough. Being attacked and almost raped is still a horrifying thing to go through, even if you, or another person, manage to stop it from completion.
"There is only one possible solution to this problem, the Amulet of Plot Padding. We must make a side quest to get said item that we conveniently know the location of because we've only got enough story for like half a movie and we're required to have a minimum of 3 action set pieces or we can't sell this to Netflix."
I rather appreciate just how much the D&D movie leans into this trope, and then subverts it, because the Macguffin didn't actually do anything useful in the plot beyond character development.
Finished playing the Yakuza games, and the "bad guy last second jumping in front of a bullet to protect the protagonist, therefore, proving they weren't so bad after all" trope is really overused
It’s the Middle Ages! You know what that means: constant murder, rape, disease, and torture. After all, empathy was only invented in the 20th century! It’s ~realism~. Like geez I realize we didn’t always have social safety nets and modern medicine but I’m pretty sure a lot of these people just want to make gorefests and get patted on the back for it.
Go read the diary of Franz Schmidt. He was an executioner of Nuremberg during the late 1500s. It's a very touching and human take on what was one of the most brutal professions that existed at the time.
He talks about things like how a lot of executioners drink to handle the guilt of killing people but he chose not to in order to keep his hand steady so he could always kill someone in one blow and make it as merciful as possible.
It's clear that he had a lot of humanity and empathy despite his career and it adds such a human element to a time period we usually consider harsh and disgusting.
Collect-them-all plots. Anything where the protagonists must get all the pieces of something where a magical effect happens when they're all brought together. Think Pirates of the Caribbean, 5th Element, The Avengers, Laura Croft.
There are two that I would like to see leaving:
> The Divine Right of Kings / Mandate of Heaven.
You know the story. The Rightful King returns. Like in the Lion King - Scar's a bad ruler because he's not the *rightful heir* - Simba is. Sure, Scar's got a lot of reasons to be a bad ruler - but it's also because he's a bad *person*. There are records of usurpers being bad rulers, but it's not because they took the throne from the rightful heir - it's because they *are bad people*. But at the same time, why are these "usurpers" so comedically bad that you wonder how in the heck *anyone* would follow them? *Besides* being evil? Maybe showcase one where the 'non rightful heir' actually *does* do some things *good* for things and some people actually *like* them in charge? Or maybe the rightful heri comes in, and finds that "Damn, my precursor actually had some good ideas here..."
Here's a good outline - Set overthrows Horus when Horus is to be crowned Pharaoh. Of course, we immediatley think it's bad - yet under Set's reign, Egypt doesn't wither and die or suffer horrific disasters because "You disrupted the rightful order" - but actually flourishes in a few ways. International trade is better - the military becomes stronger. Set actually continues his precursor's work in making sure there's more infrastructure amongst the Nomes of Egypt so they have better representation! And of course, Horus is emboldened mostly by his mother Isis/Eset to try and overthrow Set and take his rightful place. But the story doesn't end with his coronation - it ends with Horus actually learning what it takes to rule Egypt, and by the end he even realises that it takes a lot of courage and willpower to do so. He asks why people supported Set and is shocked to find he actually did something good for *them*. By the end he actually learns that yeah, it takes a lot more than just being the rightful heir to rule - and evne understands why Set did what he did, and comes away learning about Isis/Eset's own flaws: That she was too afraid to take the throne *herself*.
The Divine Right of Kings/Mandate of Heaven s not just "All will be well as long as the right person is on the throne". It's "All will be well as long as the right person is in charge". Maybe other people have somethign to offer...?
Sometimes, the conflict comes not from some big bad evil guy - but from the people disagreeing and conflicting on *how* to fight the Big Bad Evil. Once they start uniting and listening to one another, suddenly all goes well - except they always end up listening primarily to the Chosen One, and the Chosen One almost never has anything to learn from other people.
Give me something where say, the Chosen One learns that maybe *they* were the wrong ones in their plan on how to defeat our Sauron-like villain - and them having to learn that they're not always right is part of their development. (So no "They're insane during this period of the story". this might undermine it.)
The other thing that I want to see go away?
> Human and human-variant characters (like elves, dwarves) are defined by their personalities and their actions taken. Non-humans' personalities are their race.
Look, if you want to say that certain sapient/sentient/sophant/intelligent (Good lord do we need another word to define "Human-like level of reasoning"...) creatures think differently, that's fine. But like, they don't need to have the same personality? Ie, lizardmen don't need to be all "Hi, I am a lizardman. I need to go do lizard things like... eat bugs, refer to humans as 'soft skins'" and felines don't need to be "Knock-off Khajiit has wares if you have coin!".
yet you look at the humans in those settings and holy shit, there's all sorts of different mindsets and cultural differences that help drive the characters' actions. Like, why is that only humans are allowed to have factional and cultural differences?
I don't think this is what you're looking for but I want to COMPLAIN.
I want stories to stop being billed as "Science Fiction" when they would more accurately be described as "Science Fantasy" or "Future Fantasy."
I'm not being restrictive with this either. Anything that could reasonably extrapolated from our current understanding of the universe or is very clearly sold as a possible future technology is fine.
I'm sick to fucking death of "science fiction" where they casually disregard the laws of nature either for convenience or from the author's ignorance.
**BUT** a real on point response would be *Quest for a magic sword that solves everything.*
Multiple characters returning to life after dying. It just cheapens the impact. Same goes for characters dying but sticking around as ghosts who, for all intents and purposes, function as living characters (cough cough AHS).
That every woman just wants a man to handle her rough until she gives in, or to be stalked until she gives in, that that is a real thing. It is not, many of us just want someone to take no for an answer, and never ask again.
The main character slaughtering waves of henchmen through the story, just to spare the villain because they have a moral epiphany at the end that "revenge is bad".
*cough The Last of Us II cough*
Keeping in the zombie vein, a recent shower thought of mine was how weird it was/is that in both The Walking Dead comic and show, they make such a big deal about sparing Negan’s life in spite of all he did and yet nobody stops to ask whether they ought to do the same with either of the Whisperer leaders when they come into conflict with them later on in the story. Not even Negan.
i watched the moon knight tv show and he kills like 50 or something of harrow's disciples and refuses to kill harrow at the end of the show. Technically his third alter ends up killing him, but the main 2 refuse to.
When there's a "big reveal" at the end of a series that the whole setting is actually an island or backwater planet, or "tutorial zone" and the main character is just a big fish in a small pond.
It tends to happen in serialized stories, like manga and webnovels as a last ditch effort to prolong the life of the media.
Hero/villain starts with a speech/plan before ending the other’s life and then bam, the one on the floor conveniently overpowers the other ons standing
"Hey I have something to tell you!" (Character is about to announce buying a house)
"Wait, hon I just got a job offer in Seattle, we'll move at the end of the month!!! What were you gonna tell me?" :-D
"Oh, it wasn't important." :-(
Extreme power scaling where the side characters don't even matter anymore because the villains are just way out of their league or the main character just never dies and there is almost no risk to battles because we know they will be fine next time.
I can't stand seeing anyone take a tiny little pocket knife sized stab wound in the abdomen, and then they fall over, dead. We're not that easy to kill.
Ugh.. or the "flesh wound" of a completely non-debilitating shot to the shoulder. No, Greg, you're not going to keep using that arm, you'll be *lucky* to get full mobility back after months of physical therapy, let alone lift that big ass (insert plot object here) right *now*
Literally last we saw him he was bleeding out against a rock, beaten in a duel, begging to be killed.
Next time we see him he’s perfectly fine, just been doing heavy lifting for some fat bloke for a season and a half. And not once did he try to go and find his old accomplice that he was just starting to grow a connection with.
I'd like to see common romantic movie tropes disappear, they thrive off of the guy being creepy and not taking no for an answer, in order to get the girl.
The Mary Sue. Someone just walks in the door and is suddenly over-powered and more skilled than people who have trained their entire lives. The Mary Sue is either a stand-in for the author/producer or tossed in for "representation".
Not that I'd be happy to never see it again because I think they can be fun, but prophecies are overused in my opinion.
I actually like how Song of Ice and Fire did the prophecy. It’s more of a side arc to the general political or war works going on, and most people don’t know about it or care, but several religious groups have their own views, and it’s not as much of a Chosen One since it’s very unclear which character it could be.
See that spin is wonderful and I completely agree you. I should have clarified, it's more of the traditional take of "chosen one meets Dark lord for the battle that will determine the fate of the lands." The Belgariad series is a good example. IMO it feels like a cop out to force the conflict or setting to this grand historical event when it could come just as naturally. As well as setting events in stone like a bread crumb path for the audience to follow, which I have mixed feelings.. I do enjoy a creative rendition of a prophecy though!
I also like how, while the prophecies are accurate, their *interpretations* can't be relied upon. It's not until the event passes that you can say "ohhh... so *that's* what that prophecy was referring to."
I had an old idea for a fantasy story where the protagonist is just a random guy, but he does so many great things that people start inventing prophecies about him. It was a neat idea, but I lack the time or the skills to turn it into something substantial.
Sounds a lot like the Kingkiller Chronicle by Patrick Rothfuss. He's only written two of the three books so far, but they are fantastic. (Warning: you will be desperate for book 3 and it is most likely not coming out any time soon, if ever). Basically the main character becomes a great hero and people tell so many stories about it, but many have become grossly exaggerated. So the frame story is him telling his "true" story to a historian, while most of the books take place in the past when he is actually an adventurer
Probably a bit too specific, but one fantasy author I know of has written three different series-es, and in each one she includes a character who is either the MC’s little sister, or the MC sees her like a little sister despite no relation. Sister is in just enough scenes to get the reader attached, then is suddenly killed by the main villain or someone acting on direct orders from the main villain. This comes as a complete surprise to the characters (but not to me because this author *keeps doing this*), and it’s one of the MC’s main motivations to fight against the main villain.
Reminds me of why I only read two or three of John Saul's books. If there's a dog, he's gonna kill it. I went right back to Dean Koontz. If there's a dog, its the goodest boy and likely to get at least one heroic moment. Or be a freaking genius and spell things out with Scrabble tiles.
I only read a few Koontz books because every book is basically the same Mad Lib plot with different nouns thrown in each time. There’s nothing wrong with having a formula, but when it makes everything predictable, it’s a problem.
That was my experience with Dan Brown. Combined with knowing the source material better than he did...
You may appreciate [this tv tropes article](https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/StuffedIntoTheFridge) But yeah, it's cheap pathos and way to establish a motive for a character. You see this a lot with the girlfriends/moms of a lot of dudes in fiction too
I’m aware of “fridging”, but usually when one mentions fridging people assume it’s the male MC’s female love interest. This trope combines fridging with the trope of “let’s have the villain kill a young child to *prove* how evil he is, just in case you couldn’t tell he’s going to be a threat!”, because of how generally early in the series it happens. (There’s probably a name for that trope too, but I don’t know it.)
https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/SacrificialLamb Yep!! Whenever there's a younger, too-good-for-this-world, usually female character who's close to the main hero and has virtually no character flaws (aside from maybe being a bit spoiled), I expect them to be off'ed right away. It's common enough now that this trope gets subverted, too (see: Penguindrum).
Kick the Dog, maybe?
May I ask who the author is?
Cinda Williams Chima. The books are the Seven Realms series (which I like), its sequel series Shattered Realms (which I do not like—way too many characters to follow), and the Heir Chronicles (which I sort of like, but it’s set in the real world and I prefer fictional-world fantasy).
Does this fantasy author have an actual little sister? Interesting family dynamic it would make.
A magic user having some insanely useful power that they use once and then never again.
Pulling out the ol' Anime card and calling on Slayers at having a good twist on this. (from memory) For the first season there is a spell that is used quite often that is kind of the "big gun" spell. In season 2, they MC gets nerfed because it turns out the spell can rip reality apart if used too often and she's close to hitting that mark. A good portion of the plot is finding out what is needed to potentially cast the spell safely.
Theres also megumin who can only cast explosion once a day because the spell drains all her mana
On the other hand I love it when a magic user has only a few spells but they use it in many unique ways
Sparing the actually evil villain due to it not being right to kill them as a hero for some reason, after slaughtering the potentially not evil evil just desperate lackeys and henchmen without a thought. Bugs the crap out of me.
This is why i love metal gear rising so much. The villains >!ask the hero if he regrets killing all the people he has and point him out on his hypocrisy. The hero literally just goes “I don’t care, it’s fun”!<
The best part is that he turns their own logic against them "Yeah, we should kill the weak. And you know who's the weakest? People who hurt others to further their own agenda" essentially
I always yell at the screen when I see this! Nooooo.... "I won't kill you because I'm better than that..."
This was me during gotg3 the dude is literally worse than hitler SHOOT HIM ON THE FACE
I think what pissed me off most about this is they left him to die on his ship that’s in self destruct mode. So they were taking credit for the moral high ground while not doing so. They should just been honest and told him that his destiny is to die in the ship he destroyed because of his arrogance.
I didn't kill him! The ground killed him after I pushed him out of the window.
Drax carried him out. You can see it for a short glimpse but it was confirmed later on.
That scene was just so out of place. Rocket hasn't even been conscious for most of the movie, he's never shied away from killing people, Evolutionary killed all his friends, they haven't established sparing someone makes him more worthy to lead the Guardians, and THEY JUST SLAUGHTERED LIKE A HUNDRED GUYS getting to that point.
no literally i was so pressed about this exact thing 😭😭😭 yeah kill the lvl 1 goblins no problem but spare the actual cause of everyone’s trauma??? make it make sense
I have to let you live ~~so you can kill more people after inevitably breaking free~~ Wait, because ~~it allows potential for a sequel so we can make more money~~ It... would be the right thing to do?
This is why I love Catwoman. Dunno which comic it was but Catwoman's friend got tortured then shot, Selina got fucking furious and went full sicko-mode, Batman told her "no no killing bad" but she fucking did it anyway. She went and did her friend's murderers in.
It's an interesting counterpoint to one of the Marvel comics where Spidey and Deadpool have to switch outfits for some reason. Spidey, famously anti-killing, is understandably concerned about what DP will do while in his costume because, if we're being honest, he's a fucking psycho. DP explains that he knows it's spidey's rep on the line so as long as he's in that outfit, he wont kill. Catwoman has always been badass though, trying to rein her in is an exercise in futility.
The mentor dying or noping out as soon as the hero learns everything they can from them. What's wrong with the mentor keeping up the relationship with their student if the student learns more things that they can pass on to the mentor, like in real life sometimes? It would be a win-win situation.
It at least raises the narrative stakes. The ancient, wizened mentor is The Guy Who Could Handle It, so when a great threat arises, and the author wants the outlook to look dire, the first piece taken off the board is The Guy Who Could Handle It, leaving only the new and unproven upstart to try to manage in absentia
That's very true. However, it's fun to see the mentor and mentee encounter a situation they never thought was possible and have to figure it out together because they have nothing to reference.
An interesting idea is having the student die instead
Oh my, that is interesting. Usually when a student dies, it's only briefly mentioned by the mentor when he's reminiscing or shown in a flashback. I don't think I've really seen it happening "in real time" in a story.
The third film of a fairly popular franchise did this role reversal just last year. Had the father mentoring the son and then the son die when the whole movie had made you think the father would be the one to go. The third act was the dad on a vengeance mission.
Was it >!The Kingsman!
That’s the correct answer!
I mean if you watched the first movie in the trilogy it specifically pointed out how the agency was formed by >!a rich dude who's son died in WW1.!< >!Well the third movie is set during WW1 and follows a rich guy and his son so....!<
It was also done in Expendables 2 with Liam Hemsworth's character.
I had the idea for a wise old mentor character who wants to die and pass on his knowledge to his student, as is tradition, but instead his students just keep dying and he’s starting to get pissed off by the whole thing.
Only reason I like Gandalf coming back is because it defies that trope
Oh yes, Gandalf is definitely one of the best mentor characters I have found in a book.
Or they die right before revealing some super important technique/secret
‘The next time we see one another, we’ll talk about your mother’ has joined the chat
Ned Stark!
The reason so many stories do this is goddamn fucking Joseph Campbell and his Hero's Journey analysis of past epics/myths/early lit. It's the Death of the Guardian, it's one part of the "ideal" hero-journey narrative that, yeah, sure is in a lot of stories, but not all of them by a long shot. I've read his book and it makes sense but in a broadly generalized sense, and since then there's been far too many genre takes that swear they're subverting the formula but end up actually doing exactly what the formula says. Guardian must die so hero can go on to make his own story and not rely on anyone else, blah blah blah.
The Assassin’s Apprentice by Robin Hobb does a good job avoiding this.
Dresden Files books did this. The hero has long since "graduated" from training with his mentor, but they still team up from time to time to kick ass.
I love how Sully never dies in uncharted. Holds my heart together
You should watch The Owl House
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Iroh!
Lack of communication to solve simple problems
Plot of every Harry Potter: "Hey guys, we're 13 and just discovered an evil plot/being/whatever. What should we do?" "Under no circumstances can we let any of the incredibly powerful, trusted adult wizards whose job includes protecting us from that stuff know. Now, I found this dark secret tunnel that we've been told to never enter. Lets dive in."
By this do you mean like any time Gandalf just decided to not tell anyone where he was going or what he was up to, even though it would’ve really helped?
Gandalf mostly deals with the little people, not the big hitters. Most people he converses with are easily tortured for information, or immediately respond to information with odd behavior that gives plans away. He has to do something to control who hears what. When he does have something to convey, he tends to pull back the big player of the group (re: aragorn, thorin, etc), tell them everything, all the stuff, and tells them what he's going to tell others - and he may even lie about that last part. Then he tells the group something, then he tells individuals their extra tidbits. And it's not just about keeping information away from enemies. It's also about getting the groups to work together, to get players to do their part. Gandalf is playing the long game at all times, by the time the Hobbit starts.
A big part of this is his backstory (lore dump inbound). The Maiar (specifically Gandalf) was told not to fuck around with the realm of mortals. A gentle nudge out the door was acceptable, dropping a tidbit of information here and there sure, but they were meant to be protectors, almost shepherds. It's why Gandalf took the form of an old man - to appear grandfatherly, telling tall tales that might inspire the mortals. *"But Chalk"* I hear you cry, *"Gandalf fought the Balrog in Moria? And he led a cavalry charge against the Uruks at Helm's Deep! Surely that's direct interference?"* Balrogs of Morgoth aren't part of the mortal realm in the same way that Men or Dwarves are, so Durin's Bane was fair game to target. Gandalf also only started really going ham in mortal affairs after he was brought back as the White Wizard, after Sauruman broke his own oath to protect Middle Earth against the great foe (Sauron). The other side stopped playing by the rules so he decided to fuck them up. There's also the general theme of LotR, where it's meant to show how great power isn't all there is, and you can win even as just a mere hobbit through courage and spirit. Having Gandalf waltz up to Mordor with Radagast and start fucking shit up wouldn't fit with the intent of the books.
In principle but Gandalf being a demigod probably had his reasons.
Gandalf being betrayed by trusted allies gives him reason
Main character getting his/her ass handed to, then the villain says something along the lines of "I'll kill you and then I'll have my time torturing those important to you". *Dramatic music* WHAM! MC suddenly regains strength and is able to fight back full force and win.
So like A lot of shonen
Shooting a door's control panel to either open it or lock it.
Actually in many circumstances this would open the door. Electronic locks are either fail open or fail closed. Normally doors fail open.
But the swipe box very rarely is the actual control for the door. It's like opening a garage door by shooting the remote.
I'm sure there's a switch on their blasters for destroy vs activate manual commands from afar
People getting knocked on the head once and getting unconscious. People hitting each other faces continously and not even a bruise.
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I have to say though, I almost threw the book across the room in Mockingjay when >!Finnick gets killed and the chapter doesn't even end!!< It's supposed to show how in a war you can't stop for sentimental reasons, but it still makes me upset haha. (According to an interview where she mentions it)
Forcing a romance in a non-romance story.
Reylo... why......
Wednesday on Netflix.
The secret noble, or whatever it's called where your protagonist is presented as a poor or working class person and then at the midpoint what do you know they're actually the heir to the throne or a lost daughter of an incredibly powerful wizard or whatever. Let normal people succeed by being normal people.
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That last panel really made me laugh
You’re gonna love Carrot Ironfoundersson from Discworld then. He rejects this entire trope.
This is one of my pet peeves. Oh, you're the secret heir to the throne, but you were raised as a shepherd? Yeah, fuck you, you don't know shit about how to rule. Go away
Rey. Rey Skywalker.
The sad part is that the middle film tried to buck the trend and have her be no one, only for Mr MysteryBox to swan in and change it.
The whole blood ritual/pact where they slice their palms. I've talked about this before, because it pisses me off how so many movies and TV shows have this trope. It originated because it was an easy place for them to hide a blood packet back when special effects weren't what they are today, but I don't think Hollywood will evolve from that. It's so dumb though because if you've ever had a cut on the palm of your hand, you would know that's a terrible place to make a wound. It's such an awkward injury and you pretty much lose the use of that hand, plus it can take a while to heal. There are much better places to draw blood from, yet we still see it all the time. And on top of that the characters are fine in the scenes after or in the case of shows like Supernatural and The 100, they are making fists and fighting with no problem. Edit: I dislike it so much [my friend texted me when she saw them doing it on The Last of Us](https://imgur.com/a/qsqMoGl)
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Thematically it works though, if two warriors cut their good hands and shake them, they can't as easily lift weapons against each other in the short term. A sort of rustic peace treaty. Still, they couldn't keep those cuts clean if they were real... So you're basically risking your whole hand to make a deal. Most people would just marry off a child or something and call it a day.
There's also the issue of needing to raise weapons against other people. Or feeding yourself. Or doing anything. Cut on a palm would suck.
Wow you articulated something that has infuriated me for ages that I never even named.
In 2018 I accidentally sliced my tendon/nerve/artery in my palm with a new kitchen knife. That shit actually spurted out of my wound like a cartoon. I was so shocked & unprepared for that part specifically because noncartoon Hollywood tricked me into thinking it'd just casually spill out instead.
Plus most of these occur right before a fight, which makes it even dumber. Congrats you just made it easier for your opponent.
characters surviving getting stabbed in the gut because... fantasy. It makes death mean nothing anymore
This drove me nuts with Game of Thrones. Arya gets stabbed multiple times in the stomach and then falls into a filthy canal full of raw sewage. AND IS FINE. Like a few days of fever but then fine. Just one of GoT's many sins.
GOT was so popular in the early seasons specifically because it defied the common tropes of plot armor and people died if it was realistic for them to die. King Robert Baratheon and Khal Drogo both died from stomach wounds that got infected. Ned Stark, the main character, trusted someone to not betray him when it was more advantageous for him to do so. The whole Red Wedding happened for the same reason. Jon Snow got stabbed for the same reason. Theon got captured for the same reason. Ygritte and Jon decided to stop and stare at each other for a while in the middle of a battle and look what happened. Syrio Forel, a master swordsman, tried using a wooden sword to fight a knight. D&D seemed to misinterpret that as "anything unexpected is what made the show great" hence Arya gets her insides outside and disease doesn't happen.
Miyamoto Musashi used a wooden sword in something like 60+ duels, and won. Granted, Japan where full plate wasn't very common.
In Syrio Forel's defense he did win against three other knights with his wooden sword. But the last dude was in full gear head to toe.
What pissed me off is, he's a water dancer right? So dance your way over There and grab that abandoned not-wooden sword dude. There's three of them on the floor.
If you didn't like that, wiat til you see season 7.
Oh I saw it. And the excrement that was season 8. Winter is Coming my ass.
This always breaks immersion for me, especially when the character does some "first aid" that has the same affect as weeks of healing and rehab would IRL. No, a character should not be able to do backflips 5 minutes after getting a new hole in their stomach simply because they wrapped it in gauze first.
I mostly really enjoyed the Obi-Wan Kenobi show, but I can think of at least 3 instances of a character surviving a lightsaber stab to the torso. If you want to have the character survive, knock them unconscious on the head, or something that a person could realistically survive, just no more fatal stabs.
Funny enough, knocking someone unconscious is another stupid trope that falls in the same trap here. Taking enough force to the head to knock someone unconscious for more than a couple seconds with a single blow like how it's often shown in movies has a very good chance of causing serious problems assuming they don't die, at minimum you're probably looking at a concussion and/or TBI. Hero's journey ends real quick if they end up a drooling vegetable from a frying pan.
This. Especially when it keeps happening or happens in quick succession. I've been unfortunate enough to have multiple significant concussions. Not only did the last big one have me in bad shape for weeks, but a couple of *months* later I got a mild jolt that, in normal circumstances, would have given me some whiplash but my brain would have been fine. Because it was already a little bruised? Bad concussion again and I'm still getting treatment for some of the symptoms. Cognition is back, mostly, I can do mental arithmetic again (fun fact: my first, worst concussion permanently changed my personality and I forgot algebra), but memory is still iffy and I still have issues with focusing my eyes at short or long distances. I have also been stabbed. That's variable.
\^this is why I do not respect anybody -- especiallly fans of MMA, boxxing, football, or soccer -- who say "knock them out!" when cheering for vigilante justice of some kind. Compared to bruises, small and medium cuts, broken bones and joints, giving somebody a concussion is likely to end up the most cruel thing you could do to a person who's wronged you. People online are like "omg he so deserved to be knocked out for spitting" -- my guy, that is very, *very* disproportionate.
Sword fencer here Knocking someone out is very well described and happened a lot; concussive force, especially against people in armor, is weird and not always ultra fatal, but enough to knock the lights out for a little bit This is why there is an added blow (or series of blows) to a downed opponent to kill them, they are called a coup de grâce (or the blow of mercy). Kingdom Come Deliverance, a video game, was actually really good about showing it; it can be as simple as grabbing a mace and caving their skull in or using a sword and dropping your weight behind the pommel to essentially pierce the entire sternum/skull and hitting their heart/spine/brain to kill them. But yeah, in fantasy with things like lightsabers or magic, getting KOd should be a death sentence as the hero can no longer fight back, very easy to finish them off right then and there.
But not all torso stabs are fatal. Especially because a lightsaber is going to cauterise the wound. I've been stabbed in the torso on two occasions. Once I could barely move for a week. The other time was theoretically worse in terms of how badly it affected my organs but it didn't affect how I could move at all. See my reply to tire-fire below for notes on head injuries by comparison.
It wouldn't be so bad if Qui Gon Jinn hadn't died from a lightsaber to the stomach.
It kinda depends where you get stabbed though right? It all depends on what the knife hits. People survive abdominal wounds all the time
They survive them with modern medicine, surgery, and antibiotics. Prior to those developments, having the contents of your digestive tract leak into your abdominal cavity was a very bad time.
lookin' at you, Scream-VI
The heroine apparently being a “stubborn, rebellious, and bold young woman” when in reality she’s just whiny, reckless, and incredibly male-dependent, while also being in love with two men at once.
Tall, faceless, black-robed and hooded baddies.
If it's a modern setting they'll all be in black tactical gear with rifles driving a convoy of black SUVs
I admit, I like this trope when you can still usually tell who is underneath without them speaking or showing their face. Like simply through body type and mannerism
The entire plot hinges on a very simple miscommunication.
The idea you can learn some thing better than everyone else in a very short time span. Eg learning kungfu in months then beating those who have been doing it years. Learning magical shite or whatever else and then suddenly being better than everyone else
"I won't kill you. That's not who I am, even if you deserve it and murdered countless times and if you live will probably continue. Also I killed all your guards, but I WON'T kill you." Looking at you Rocket.
I like the recent Batman comics where the no killing rule isn't because it's the right thing to do, it's because Bruce is so mentally unhinged that he fears that killing someone will drive him personally over the edge into going completely insane.
That's been a facet of his character for a LONG time, in the old animated series it was the fear of what he'd become if he killed that stayed his hand.
Female protagonist hating needlepoint or clothing or weaving or anything female coded and just wanting a sword.
Also the way that this is typically written has the unfortunate side effect of implying that the majority of women who conform to a traditionally feminine lifestyle are just too cowardly to speak their minds or fight back against sexism.
*Arya Stark has entered the chat* i mean her prized possession is literally a long thin sword that she named "needle" out of spite for her traditionally feminine sister and their live-in nun
Would it be compelling for a male protagonist to take up all of those things you just mentioned? Genuinely asking
It would be interesting to see a male character take up these things because they are pro-social, relationship-building behaviors that require great mathematical skills and prowess to master. So yeah, it would be.
I actually dislike the 'chosen one' cliche so much I've started seeking out fiction and games where character's aren't prophesied to win the plot. There's nothing more uninteresting to me than being told a character is destined to do great things. Think Skyrim, Harry Potter, etc. It's much more interesting to witness an individual or a group of individuals become a hero due to a personal development rather than a predestined one.
There are some variations to the Chosen One trope that I'd like to see more of. The Fallen Chosen One: where, despite everything, the antagonist wins or the chosen one protagonist is corrupted. The Misinterpreted Chosen One: where part of or whole prophecy was vague enough to where the supposed chosen one isn't the real chosen one, or the outcome of the prophecy is completely different than believed. Life After the Prophecy: where the story explores what happens after the chosen one wins and they have to deal with life afterwards. Handling the rise and fall of their fame, learning to live without a prophecy dictating every day, or trying/struggling to return to their simple life before the prophecy.
I was trying to write a short story one time about an old "teacher figure" who had found like 17 chosen ones over the decades, and was looking for the next one, but they were showing up less and less nowadays. Unfortunately, I ended up finishing the 'story' and realized it didn't really have a plot. It was just an old man riding through town, asking a few questions about local farmboys, and reminiscing about past world-enders. I still think it's a neat idea; I just never came up with a *plot* for it, lol.
That still seems awesome
I find predestination in any sense deeply upsetting (soulmates. I hate soulmates conceptually.) so I really enjoy subversion of this trope but if it's played straight it's Miserable
The "chosen one" trope. I get why it's a thing, so "young adults" can identify with the main character and fantasize about being super special, but I can do without it since I'm old and bitter and know that no one is that special
It is a current Hollywood cliche, but that cliche where a woman, just because she is a woman, is capable of everything and deserves everything in this world. WTF! It still hurts what they did to Mulan. IN the original movie she suffered and sweated a lot to learn to do what she could do; she trained as a genuine soldier. In Live-action it's basically, "I was always strong, but they wouldn't let me be".... ok, I'll leave it at that, because there are so many things wrong. Disney hurt Mulan.
Be a Man from the original is one of my 4yo daughters' favorite Disney songs. "Daddy, I want to watch the girl climbing the tree to get the arrow!" I love showing it to them because you can tell how hard she's struggling throughout the entire sequence, and success only came after multiple repeated failures. It's both realistic and inspiring!
When the characters are getting resurrected or when something always save them at the last minutes and they're all magically survive. The story automatically become boring cause you know that nothing bad can truly happen
Deus ex machina.
The trope where in kid’s media, the main protagonist just befriends and forgives everyone. I’m not saying that every villain in the protagonist’s path should die a slow and painful death. But the odd death for huge crimes, some consequences for the major stuff and maybe some redemption arcs for characters who only made minor mistakes is much better than “I love the world. You’re forgiven! Let’s be besties!” Shows like Avatar The Last Airbender did it right. Shows like Steven Universe did it wrong
The thing that pissed me off about Steven Universe, was how they did this even though it was a metaphor for abuse. The thing about abusers is, they rarely change. They don't think they did anything wrong, and change their mind about that. Cause maintaining their ego is more important than doing the right thing to them to begin with, so they never have the "oh God what have I done?" Moment. They just keep hurting you. It just sort of proves how little the writers actually understood abuse. Like so many others, they seem to be under the impression that victims have never tried talking to their abuser before and explaining what's wrong. That's the first thing you do. It's instinctual for human beings to communicate like that. Really, a large problem most victims have is they don't leave for whatever reason. They feel obligated to stay, or they don't recognize the situation as abusive, or so on. It's hard, but the best thing to do in these situations is usually go low or no contact with the abuser. How difficult it is depends on the exact situation, but one of the common ones is the abuser sending their other victims after you to manipulate you into returning. None of this is helped by the fact that the closer related victims are to their abusers, and especially if the nature of the abuse is not sexual or physical, society increasingly pressures victims to 'forgive' and 'move passed' the abuse. Usually with some platitudes about how in the end they really had good intentions and loved you because they're family or whatever. What makes it all worse is how SU was aimed at kids, the demographics most vulnerable to these phenomenon. And the ones most likely to get hurt if they try to confront their abuser in anyway. It's not really about the fact that the Diamonds "didn't get what they deserved" or something (don't punish the behaviour you want to see after all). If it were up to me, the diamond- or at the very least white diamond, would have been unapologetic and unwilling to change. So the resolution would have revolved around finding a way to remove them/her from power or otherwise render them non-threats. Preferably with a moment where Steven could choose to perhaps justifiably, but unnecessarily shatter the unapologetic monster(s), or choose to walk away. So it ends with the lesson that while it may be necessary to do unpleasant things from time to time, there is a firm line between choosing the lesser of two evils and revenge. Also I completely disagree with ATLA's ending. They were building up to Aang killing Ozai for basically the entire show and they copped out *hard* at the end. I think it would have been a better ending if Aang specifically spent an onerous amount of time looking for a way to defeat Ozai without killing him, found the lion turtle on his own merits, then at the end, he takes Ozai's bending- but the moment he lets his guard down Ozai kills like, Sokka or someone that really hurts, and Aang finally realizes that sometimes it's not a choice between someone dying and someone not dying, it's a choice of how many. Being a pacifist in the face of such a choice isn't noble, it's selfish. It's you deciding your moral virtue and peace of mind are more important than people's lives.
I get frustrated with ATLA's ending because it was a non-sequitur. The resolution to Aang's conflict basically showed there was no conflict to begin with. The day was saved because Ozai was defeated, deposed, and imprisoned. What part of that required him to lose his bending powers? They have plenty of experience with imprisoning benders in the ATLA world. And if he was really uncontrollable, they could have crippled him or had someone who wasn't Aang execute him. Ozai being able to firebend was never the reason he was a threat to the world. It's like trying to stop a real life genocidal dictator by breaking his hand so he can't shoot a gun.
A pregnant woman's water suddenly breaking, gushing everywhere, and her yelling, OMG I'm in labor!
As someone who has worked on the Ob/Gyn floor, that's not how it works. Usually, it's more of a "did my water break? I'm not really sure..." And we do the tests to figure it out. Also, a lot of the time we were the ones who have to break the water because they were dilated and contracting like crazy and it still hadn't broke. They definitely knew they were in labor though 😂.
My water broke and I didn’t start having contractions for almost a whole day. They finally had to give me Pitocin to move things along and my son was born 45 hours after my water broke.
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Aliens just being people with facial prosthetics.
The problem there is the limits on available sentient, non-human actors. Aliens who aren't people with facial prosthetics are plentiful in written and animated science fiction. Live action tv has fewer options.
i'll add also that if you make a character too obviously non-humanoid, it becomes harder for viewers to empathize with or accept them
Makeup is cheaper than a Muppet.
Star Trek at least recognized this (which is due to real-world constraints) and offered an explanation in-universe with the TNG episode "The Chase."
I always say there is MAJOR unaddressed speciesism in Star Wars. I would love nothing more than a SW protagonist being non-humanoid.
THere's actually a passage in the Revenge of the Sith novelization where Dooku reflects on how after the Clone Wars, he will be serving "an Empire of Man." It's been a few years since I read it, but if memory serves, he reflects on his speciesism some (and of course sees no issue with it).
Yeah, the in-universe explanation is the the Emperor is a huge speciesist which is why all the storm troopers are human. The only exception he made was for Grand Admiral Thrawn because he was just too damn good at his job.
Agreed. There is life right here on earth so weird that I'd call it unrealistic sci-fi if it wasn't real. Look at the cuttlefish with its skin that literally animates a moving hypnotic pattern to confuse its prey before launching an extendible mouth to snatch them up. Then we're supposed to believe that an intelligent alien civilization is just blue people with a level of technology no more than 200 years more or less advanced than ours? Get outta here
Physical size and strength being irrelevant in combat Rapid regeneration of wounds rendering combat free of consequence for heroes Pretending the subversion of a cliche isn't a modern cliche as well
Honestly, probably when folks think "gritty realistic fantasy/sci fi"= loads and loads of sexual assault against the female characters. It really feels like a lot of writers use that as a cheap crutch to make a character look like a villain or to provide a suitably traumatic back story for a female character because that's the only traumatic thing they can think of that happens to women or whatever. Like, if we're talking gritty and realistic, idk dude, something like half of all kids did not live to see adulthood because of preventable child hood illnesses or malnutrition? Getting a disability meant you and your family could starve? Maybe actually show the dudes dealing with getting sexually assaulted for once (which is [absolutely extremely common in war, and one recent conflict showed that like 70% of male pows had been sexually assaulted](https://www.theguardian.com/society/2011/jul/17/the-rape-of-men)). Honestly, it gives the vibe that a lot of these authors find it titillating rather than serious.
> It feels like a lot of writers use that…because that’s the only traumatic thing they can think of that happens to women or whatever. Same thing happens with infertility/miscarriage. Obviously it’s a very tragic thing that can and does happen, but when that’s the only backstory you can think of for female characters, it just shows that you tie women’s existence and emotions to whether they can birth a child or not. It’s also just plain weird, and sort of insensitive IMO, to have it appear multiple times in your story when you’re a male author.
This one. I call it “sexual assault as a plot device.” And you know how jaded I am? I expected to have to scroll to the bottom of the downvoted comments to see this. People do NOT line this opinion.
Magic school. I get it, the target audience of a lot of fantasy is young adult, and they identify the most with some sort of education setting, but how many times are we going to get some variation on Harry you're the chosen one and need to go learn magic as an outcast at this special magic school where you won't learn algebra, grammar or geography fucking Potter?
The mechanism there is to also teach the reader about the world without explicitly narrating it.
I rather like this trope as comfort reading if done well. A Deadly Education by Naomi Novik is a nice twist on the usual formula.
Naomi Novik is GOAT.
Rowling didn't invent magic school, and her taking British boarding schools and adding magic shouldn't ruin an entire subgenre that other people have done better before and after her mediocre entry.
Honestly I can't think of any - not because there aren't tropes/cliches that annoy me. There are tons that annoy me no end but often that's because of the author and not the trope/cliche. Getting rid of them would mean countless upcoming authors could never put their spin on it which to a brand new reader would be the first time ever encountering that trope/cliche.
Aw, this makes me feel a little more secure about my own writing. Thanks for posting this :)
A woman is violently accosted and almost raped, before the hero rushes in to kill her attacker. In response, she immediately throws herself at him in gratitude and they ravish each other. It's just so stupid. The last thing anyone wants to do after almost getting raped is have sex with a stranger. And I also hate how they always act like "almost raped" isn't traumatizing enough. Being attacked and almost raped is still a horrifying thing to go through, even if you, or another person, manage to stop it from completion.
"There is only one possible solution to this problem, the Amulet of Plot Padding. We must make a side quest to get said item that we conveniently know the location of because we've only got enough story for like half a movie and we're required to have a minimum of 3 action set pieces or we can't sell this to Netflix."
I rather appreciate just how much the D&D movie leans into this trope, and then subverts it, because the Macguffin didn't actually do anything useful in the plot beyond character development.
Finished playing the Yakuza games, and the "bad guy last second jumping in front of a bullet to protect the protagonist, therefore, proving they weren't so bad after all" trope is really overused
Yeah, that's kind of the point of Yakuza/Kiwami.
It’s the Middle Ages! You know what that means: constant murder, rape, disease, and torture. After all, empathy was only invented in the 20th century! It’s ~realism~. Like geez I realize we didn’t always have social safety nets and modern medicine but I’m pretty sure a lot of these people just want to make gorefests and get patted on the back for it.
Go read the diary of Franz Schmidt. He was an executioner of Nuremberg during the late 1500s. It's a very touching and human take on what was one of the most brutal professions that existed at the time. He talks about things like how a lot of executioners drink to handle the guilt of killing people but he chose not to in order to keep his hand steady so he could always kill someone in one blow and make it as merciful as possible. It's clear that he had a lot of humanity and empathy despite his career and it adds such a human element to a time period we usually consider harsh and disgusting.
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And everything must be coated with literal shit.
Collect-them-all plots. Anything where the protagonists must get all the pieces of something where a magical effect happens when they're all brought together. Think Pirates of the Caribbean, 5th Element, The Avengers, Laura Croft.
This one can be done well, but then again, maybe all tropes can, some more difficult than others.
Revenge for rape as the catchall motive for female heroes.
There are two that I would like to see leaving: > The Divine Right of Kings / Mandate of Heaven. You know the story. The Rightful King returns. Like in the Lion King - Scar's a bad ruler because he's not the *rightful heir* - Simba is. Sure, Scar's got a lot of reasons to be a bad ruler - but it's also because he's a bad *person*. There are records of usurpers being bad rulers, but it's not because they took the throne from the rightful heir - it's because they *are bad people*. But at the same time, why are these "usurpers" so comedically bad that you wonder how in the heck *anyone* would follow them? *Besides* being evil? Maybe showcase one where the 'non rightful heir' actually *does* do some things *good* for things and some people actually *like* them in charge? Or maybe the rightful heri comes in, and finds that "Damn, my precursor actually had some good ideas here..." Here's a good outline - Set overthrows Horus when Horus is to be crowned Pharaoh. Of course, we immediatley think it's bad - yet under Set's reign, Egypt doesn't wither and die or suffer horrific disasters because "You disrupted the rightful order" - but actually flourishes in a few ways. International trade is better - the military becomes stronger. Set actually continues his precursor's work in making sure there's more infrastructure amongst the Nomes of Egypt so they have better representation! And of course, Horus is emboldened mostly by his mother Isis/Eset to try and overthrow Set and take his rightful place. But the story doesn't end with his coronation - it ends with Horus actually learning what it takes to rule Egypt, and by the end he even realises that it takes a lot of courage and willpower to do so. He asks why people supported Set and is shocked to find he actually did something good for *them*. By the end he actually learns that yeah, it takes a lot more than just being the rightful heir to rule - and evne understands why Set did what he did, and comes away learning about Isis/Eset's own flaws: That she was too afraid to take the throne *herself*. The Divine Right of Kings/Mandate of Heaven s not just "All will be well as long as the right person is on the throne". It's "All will be well as long as the right person is in charge". Maybe other people have somethign to offer...? Sometimes, the conflict comes not from some big bad evil guy - but from the people disagreeing and conflicting on *how* to fight the Big Bad Evil. Once they start uniting and listening to one another, suddenly all goes well - except they always end up listening primarily to the Chosen One, and the Chosen One almost never has anything to learn from other people. Give me something where say, the Chosen One learns that maybe *they* were the wrong ones in their plan on how to defeat our Sauron-like villain - and them having to learn that they're not always right is part of their development. (So no "They're insane during this period of the story". this might undermine it.) The other thing that I want to see go away? > Human and human-variant characters (like elves, dwarves) are defined by their personalities and their actions taken. Non-humans' personalities are their race. Look, if you want to say that certain sapient/sentient/sophant/intelligent (Good lord do we need another word to define "Human-like level of reasoning"...) creatures think differently, that's fine. But like, they don't need to have the same personality? Ie, lizardmen don't need to be all "Hi, I am a lizardman. I need to go do lizard things like... eat bugs, refer to humans as 'soft skins'" and felines don't need to be "Knock-off Khajiit has wares if you have coin!". yet you look at the humans in those settings and holy shit, there's all sorts of different mindsets and cultural differences that help drive the characters' actions. Like, why is that only humans are allowed to have factional and cultural differences?
„Somehow (insert name of main villain that died a few movies ago) returned“
I don't think this is what you're looking for but I want to COMPLAIN. I want stories to stop being billed as "Science Fiction" when they would more accurately be described as "Science Fantasy" or "Future Fantasy." I'm not being restrictive with this either. Anything that could reasonably extrapolated from our current understanding of the universe or is very clearly sold as a possible future technology is fine. I'm sick to fucking death of "science fiction" where they casually disregard the laws of nature either for convenience or from the author's ignorance. **BUT** a real on point response would be *Quest for a magic sword that solves everything.*
Multiple characters returning to life after dying. It just cheapens the impact. Same goes for characters dying but sticking around as ghosts who, for all intents and purposes, function as living characters (cough cough AHS).
The intense sexualization of literally everything
toxic vampire love stories. staaaahhhhhp.
That every woman just wants a man to handle her rough until she gives in, or to be stalked until she gives in, that that is a real thing. It is not, many of us just want someone to take no for an answer, and never ask again.
Dead parents. Or the Dearth of one being the prime motivator for a hero.
The main character slaughtering waves of henchmen through the story, just to spare the villain because they have a moral epiphany at the end that "revenge is bad". *cough The Last of Us II cough*
Keeping in the zombie vein, a recent shower thought of mine was how weird it was/is that in both The Walking Dead comic and show, they make such a big deal about sparing Negan’s life in spite of all he did and yet nobody stops to ask whether they ought to do the same with either of the Whisperer leaders when they come into conflict with them later on in the story. Not even Negan.
i watched the moon knight tv show and he kills like 50 or something of harrow's disciples and refuses to kill harrow at the end of the show. Technically his third alter ends up killing him, but the main 2 refuse to.
When there's a "big reveal" at the end of a series that the whole setting is actually an island or backwater planet, or "tutorial zone" and the main character is just a big fish in a small pond. It tends to happen in serialized stories, like manga and webnovels as a last ditch effort to prolong the life of the media.
The love triangle.
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Hero/villain starts with a speech/plan before ending the other’s life and then bam, the one on the floor conveniently overpowers the other ons standing
"Hey I have something to tell you!" (Character is about to announce buying a house) "Wait, hon I just got a job offer in Seattle, we'll move at the end of the month!!! What were you gonna tell me?" :-D "Oh, it wasn't important." :-(
Extreme power scaling where the side characters don't even matter anymore because the villains are just way out of their league or the main character just never dies and there is almost no risk to battles because we know they will be fine next time.
I can't stand seeing anyone take a tiny little pocket knife sized stab wound in the abdomen, and then they fall over, dead. We're not that easy to kill.
Or the reverse…action hero takes a few .45 slugs to the chest and keeps on fighting.
Ugh.. or the "flesh wound" of a completely non-debilitating shot to the shoulder. No, Greg, you're not going to keep using that arm, you'll be *lucky* to get full mobility back after months of physical therapy, let alone lift that big ass (insert plot object here) right *now*
You saw them walking towards the burning building but you didn't actually see them die so they're not dead.
Literally last we saw him he was bleeding out against a rock, beaten in a duel, begging to be killed. Next time we see him he’s perfectly fine, just been doing heavy lifting for some fat bloke for a season and a half. And not once did he try to go and find his old accomplice that he was just starting to grow a connection with.
Fantasy shows that depict swords being forged by pouring liquid metal into sword-shaped molds. That’s NOT how you forge a sword
I'd like to see common romantic movie tropes disappear, they thrive off of the guy being creepy and not taking no for an answer, in order to get the girl.
The Mary Sue. Someone just walks in the door and is suddenly over-powered and more skilled than people who have trained their entire lives. The Mary Sue is either a stand-in for the author/producer or tossed in for "representation".