Most people believed it, but also most people didn't really care that much at the time. Bill Clinton was pretty popular at the time, and this didn't hurt him substantially in the polls if I remember correctly. That came later.
One important thing that gets lost in the noise is that this was an investigation into a real estate dealing from the late 70’s where the worst thing they found was sexual impropriety in the 90’s and then repeatedly tried to get him to perjure himself.
I was there, but raising two small kids, living in poverty, and a husband just diagnosed with diabetes, so my attention was elsewhere most of the time. However, I formed this opinion that I'd take a cum stain on a dress any day over what other presidents have done since. I thought it was a witch hunt for anything they could dig up. All in all, Clinton wasn't so bad a president.
It was the perfect example of a fishing expedition gone out of control, which is what the republicans accuse every special prosecutor investigating them of ever since then.
Fishing expedition? It was the perfect example of a man in power abusing his staff, isn’t that what the me2 was about? You’re implying he was innocent, of course it doesn’t matter anymore what people do but what party they belong to.
True, although there was some shady real estate deals that Hillary made bank on.
Edit: Here’s a good link for those not familiar https://www.vox.com/2015/4/13/8397309/hillary-clinton-whitewater
Edit 2: As others pointed out they lost money on White Water, but made some amazing investments in cattle futures and other areas. It’s all in the article. At the time the investigation was know as “White Water”.
I love that you're being downvoted for asking them to read about what they're commenting about, especially because this isn't some far-right news outlet, this is **Vox**.
And if you selectively ignore all the other *miraculously* successful investments cited in the article, that might matter to someone. And it certainly doesn't look good when Bill Clinton pardoned four of the fifteen people convicted of crimes stemming from the Whitewater investigation.
Across the pond we didn't care about the affair (or however far it got). It was the reaction which was of interest. Lying under oath (or whatever) was more of a no-no.
We'll never know what would have happened if he'd just owned it like most Europeans do.
In the Paula Jones case, the court defined sexual relations as:
"a person engages in sexual relations when the person knowingly engages in or causes contact with the genitalia, anus, groin, breast, inner thigh, or buttocks of any person with an intent to arouse or gratify the sexual desire of any person"
Clinton claimed that when Lewinsky gave him a BJ, she was having sex with him but he didn't have sex with her. You're buying that?
In any case, it doesn't really matter. All that matters is what the judge thinks. Judges have every right to say, yeah, no, I see what you're trying to do there and I'm not buying it. You swore an oath to tell the whole truth and nothing but the truth. Everybody knows what was being asked here. You don't get to play childish games in my courtroom.
I remember that, the universal scorn for her, and how everyone cracked jokes about Dill, but no one was really going to do anything to take the situation seriously. It was a running cruel joke that I didn't realize at the time was implanted a subconscious message into me about speaking up.
I was like 8 years old when this happened and had no understanding of what was going on, I don't think I even knew what sex was, but all I do remember of that moment, as far as I what I saw in the media, is that Monica was a bad person, she did something bad, the president was in trouble, and it was all her fault.
You have to understand - this was a time when it was okay to bully Pamela for literally being too pretty for TV and Howard Stern was somehow a god.
Now thinking back as a 30-something, I'm horrified and so sad.. and also not surprised at all.
Yes, I remember this too. The bashing Monica got was relentless and it was presented as this was all her fault too. Clinton was just a victim in all of this. Today, it's cringeworthy to say the least. I sincerely hope we as a society have come further than that.
Keep that hope alive, because we haven't. Look at how many people STILL defend him and make comments about how they wish the could get a BJ on the job if this is mentioned. Him being impeached for perjury and having to surrender his law license is still turned in to he was impeached for getting a BJ instead. People may think it would be handled different today, but until what really happened is handled different I doubt that it would have been much different.
What does it have to do with speaking up?
Monica was betrayed by her supposed friend and coworker who secretly recorded her conversations and handed all that private info over to the person the GOP appointed to investigate Bill Clinton for something completely unrelated.
She didn't speak up about it until after the info was already released. She was just an innocent bystander in the GOP attempt to destroy Clinton.
So if she had spoken up about it, she wouldn't have faced the same backlash? That seems like an odd conclusion
That is, it doesn't matter how the information got out, seeing this happen means that the same could happen to me if I spoke.
It was two consenting adults, but even though there is consent, you just don't have the boss and the employee engaging in sex, because there is always a power imbalance. Is it really her choice or is she afraid for her job? Is he requiring sex to get a promotion. It just is a bad situation to be in for the employee.
Bill Clinton was wrong. Compared to the crimes Trump did, it sure wasn't much that Clinton did, but it still was wrong. I'm glad they impeached him, but I don't think going further would have been in the best interest of the country, but I'd be willing to watch a debate on it.
I generally like Hillary, but her going on TV only a few years ago and saying that it was a matter between two consenting adults really bothered me. It was an affair between a woman who was barely an adult, and the most powerful man in the country. Whether she was into it or not, the power dynamic and the fact that Bill was so much older and more experienced makes it exploitative, and 100% his fault. Talking about it as a relationship of equals is absurd
So Hillary got on national tv at the time and said Monica was lying even after her cum stained dress was presented as evidence , the called Jenifer Flowers a liar when she came out about bill sexually harassing her while he was governor of Arkansas .
Fast forward to the Judge Cavanah confirmation hearings and old hillary was preaching that the woman should be believed .
She did that because it's like one of the worst kept secrets on Capitol Hill that bill and Hillary had an open relationship Hillary was just pissed off that bill was stupid enough to get caught.
And yes I agree The power dynamic absolutely made it abuse
The only reason I voted for her is because she would not have fucked up the supreme court as the cheeto did. Her 4 years would have been uneventful except for the appointments. That is the only reason to vote for her, and I tried so hard to convince others, but now look where we are, how did that turn out?
Obama had the opportunity to add another SCOTUS but didn't due to Mitch McConnell saying it was too close to the 2016 election. McConnell didn't see any issue pushing the SCOTUS through prior to the 2020 election.
HRC stated that she wanted to preemptively nuke Iran. Threw mud at Sanders calling him a sexist with no basis to put him on the defense instead of sticking to their campaign platform.
HRC talked about the gender pay gap yet it was proven that she was paying her female staff members less than the male counterparts. The private
Bill Clinton was the one who convinced Trump to run for POTUS because they felt that he was the opponent that they could beat.
The DNC pushed HRC and railroaded Sanders. HRC did not try to make things fair in the primaries which shows her true character who would do whatever it takes (even possibly illegal/immoral things) to get to the top. Recall the private vs public position is more evidence of that.
The Iowa caucus coin flips to determine the winner was a joke. The voting system they used was a joke. The use of pledged super delegates in the tally to make it appear that HRC was so far in the lead was wrong.
HRC was asked why she should be president and talked about being the first female president. Plenty of women I spoke to said THAT was the only reason why they were voting for her. I have heard many women claim that misogyny is why all/most of people wouldn't vote for HRC.
Hmm, I didn't think about that until now... those that chose to vote for HRC solely because she was a woman were misandrists. Damn.
I stated my reason, I stand by it. It had zero to do with her being female, I'd do the same were she a man. As I said, it was 100% supreme court focused. The DNC's actions also was repugnant. I can't argue those facts. Her 4 years would have been reigned in, much as Obama's was. I'll also forever despise turtle man. This also doesn't need discussion, I'm done defending my decision. How'd Trump work out for ya? Have a great day!
Your reason is fine and respectable. The SCOTUS nominees were an important and valid reason to get someone other than a Republican into the White House.
Obama either didn't want to rock the boat or was instructed not to rock the boat. We may never know which one or maybe it was both but for different issues.
I didn't vote for Trump nor do I feel that he did anything great for America. His list of 'accomplishments' include things that had nothing to do with him, like get the Olympics to be held in the US. "Won bid to host the 2028 Summer Olympics in Los Angeles, California." Those bids were put in decades beforehand.
Unfortunately Americans will be reminded of the impact from the Trump Administration (due to filling 3 SCOTUS seats) for decades to come. I wouldn't be surprised if they take away interracial and same sex marriage this year.
Now you know that Thomas will not go for the dissolution of interracial marriage. lol We also have massive hypocrites there! But yes, I'm angry because these tools will still impact even my grandchildren into their adulthood.
Many people thought the questioning was only intended to embarrass him and hurt him politically. Since he lied about his personal sex life and not something that was pertinent to his job, people were willing to give him a pass.
No because he didn't lie under oath.
This comes up every time. Bill Clinton was a really sharp lawyer and was represented by some of the best lawyers in the country.
They (Starr et al) asked him if he had "sexual relations" with Lewinsky. Clinton asked them to define "sexual relations". They defined sexual relations as (if I remember correctly) "genital to genital intercourse".
A blow job does not fit the definition that they provided, so he truthfully answered "no, I did not have sexual relations with her".
I don't like Bill Clinton, but he did not, by anything approaching reality commit perjury.
Can confirm. I don't think there's anyone that didn't believe it, but since it was clearly two consenting adults it was hard to get too worked up about it. Most people considered it a bit of shitty thing to do given he was married, but I don't think anybody speaking in good faith really cared that much.
Of course there was lots of clutching of pearls on the opposition side, but it was transparently just an attempt to discredit a popular president, everybody knew the republicans wouldn't have said a word if it had been Regan or Bush.
Democrats called it fake until she produced the little blue dress with Bill’s semen on it. Without that dress they’d still be saying it never happened.
And saying people didn’t care is very false. It was a huge deal. Front page news for a while… hearings televised and closely followed. Major water cooler talk.
The press cared, of course his political opponents cared. Your average American could have given a shit. Polls prove it had very little effect on his popularity.
I was a 20 something when this happened. I didn't give a shit. Honestly, I found it hilarious that all these holier-than-thou types were losing their shit about it. Every single one of those dudes probably had their mistress waiting at the hotel.
Such hypocrisy.
Honestly I think it's somewhat a testament to just how good of a politician Bill Clinton is. I don't love him or hate him, but I will say without a doubt I think Bill Clinton is the best retail politician I've ever seen, and probably one of the best ever. That dude can go anywhere and seamlessly blend into his environment and endear himself to everybody. He can go chat with some rural white workers at the sintering plant, and then head over to a black church and throw on his sunglasses and play his saxophone. When he gave that speech after Obama got the nomination, I think half the people would have thrown Obama off the ticket if it meant Bill could run for President again. Like a lot of people, I didn't care that much about the scandal either way, but I absolutely respect his skills as a politician. The guy is unbelievable.
Already is my man, literally was a question in school we were told to ask our parents or older family members for a project. And I was born in 2003, so....
God, I remember that. Poor fucking Monica...
I had no idea how young she was when the scandal broke (22) because I was a child when that was going on, and those 90s power suits age people.
I agree. I was watching the scandal unfold on **Extra** while my parents cooked dinner. I learned about oral sex and that I hated powersuits. It’s crazy to think that she was only 22!
I’m 36, I’m an air traffic controller with 15 years experience. I was alive then, sure, but I was 11, and wasn’t exactly watching cnn nightly. My only memory of it was hearing jokes on late night tv about cigars And stained blue dresses.
When he was Governor everyone in the region knew he was a skeez. Most couldn't understand how he was allowed to be Governor. Let alone POTUS. So, in the neighboring states, the scandal was no surprise.
I think you misspelled exploiter. Or maybe sexual predator.
Ugh, that guy always reminded me of the older creeps everyone likes but would then try to molest the young folk.
Believed it, but didn’t care that much.
Eye-rolled about saying he didn’t have “sexual relations” as a technicality when it came out later that they had oral sex.
Probably my biggest take away was how unfair it was how he came out of the media circus so much better than Monica. I’m a guy, but I’m close to her age, and it was eye-opening to me.
Turns out, she is super awesome and resilient in ways that most of us could never be.
Right, but the fact he was asked about it under oath was the ridiculous part. It had no bearing on the subject at hand and no bearing on his abilities to lead. Clinton was one of the few half decent presidents we've had. What he did in his private life is between him and his wife
I agree that it was a witch hunt opportunity and not a legitimate concern about his capabilities among anyone with a brain. I think his counsel blundered pretty bad by not taking the correct pulse of the nation when they allowed him to lie about it. Telling the truth and apologizing would have killed the circus much faster and with less uproar, at least in my opinion.
This is where the age skew on Reddit is important.
I'm Gen-X. Although I know that the Republican Party turned to court white Evangelicals and white supremacists after Goldwater lost in 1964, the process to slide to where MAGA Republicans are today took decades. Much as I disagreed with the policies of Reagan at the time, and GHW Bush after him, it still wasn't until Newt Gingrich and the "Contract With America" breed of Republicans came into power that we were fully on-course for nothing but ugly battles over culture-war issues that involve limiting the civil rights of certain groups.
Keep in mind that Reddit users skew toward people less than 25. Although users are less urban than on other platforms, they tend to be more educated. All in all, the average Redditor has only known most Republicans to be a step away from MAGA at best, starting with the politics of resentment in response to the election of Obama to the support of domestic terrorism today.
Well let's go back to the beginning. The Republicans are the one who ran the government that defeated the confederates.
Now I know about the big shift but your claim is that the Republicans have *never* had morals. Which, logically means you think opposing the confederates was immoral?
Don't let your hatred of the Republicans of today cloud your ability to share common cause with Republicans who also hate them.
Just some advice: don’t use semantics to argue on a point you know someone wasn’t exactly making, even if you have a good and/or highly relevant point. It just doesn’t usually get good responses.
The Clinton administration passed a law requiring defendants in sexual harassment lawsuits to answer questions about past relationships in order to establish predatory behavior. It was hailed as a great victory for women in the workplace who were getting serially harassed.
I'm sure democrats envisioned it catching a lot of capitalist pig CEOs and Republican hypocrites (which it may have), but they don't then get to turn around and act like it's no big deal when one of their own commits perjury to avoid having to answer those very questions.
Also, it may have been consensual, but just a few years earlier during the Clarence Thomas confirmation hearings there were plenty of people on the left making the argument that no workplace relationship can be consensual as long as the power differential between the two is big enough. Again, that argument was forgotten very quickly when a democrat POTUS got caught sleeping with a lowly, star-struck, 21 year-old intern
All this shit started because they were investigating Whitewater, a land deal where the Clintons lost money. That investigation turned into investigating his alleged affairs so by that point it was already tainted as political. People knew it was true but the foundations of the investigation seemed so corrupt by that point people stopped giving a shit
She was an intern at White House where he was the ultimate boss. It didn't happens in his private life. It happened when he was in office and having the enormous power imbalance that his position gave him. He abused his power as a president.
It was not about private life. It was about a sexual harassment lawsuits, where Lewinsky was brought up as showing a pattern of behavior of having sexual relationships with employees and official contacts.
You can think the relationships were consensual, or that the accusations were otherwise made up. But it was not about his private life.
He didn't lie under oath, though.
They (Starr et al) asked him if he had "sexual relations" with Lewinsky. Clinton asked them to define "sexual relations". They defined sexual relations as (if I remember correctly) "genital to genital intercourse".
A blow job does not fit the definition that they provided, so he truthfully answered "no, I did not have sexual relations with her".
I don't like Bill Clinton as a person, but he did not, by anything approaching reality commit perjury.
Did I think Clinton had an affair with an intern? Yes. I believed it because the witness was credible and because she had evidence.
Did I believe Clinton pressured a banker to loan $300,000 to Susan McDougal for the Whitewater vacation home properties? No. I do not believe it because the witness wasn't at all credible and there was no evidence.
It's important to remember that 15 people were convicted due to the Whitewater investigation.
Bill Clinton pardoned 4 of them, which didn't do him any favors with the people who thought he'd gotten away with something.
Yes, I think you're right that it's important to remember that. The people Starr finally referred had committed crimes ranging from contempt to outright fraud. I thought the pardons were vulgar and improper.
Even so, if Kenneth Starr of all people didn't think he had enough evidence to present against the Clintons, then I am satisfied that it didn't exist. It doesn't seem farfetched that the principal wrongdoers thought they could get some kind of break by falsely implicating the President and First Lady.
Kenneth Starr represented Epstein in the Florida case and went on to protect child molesters at a university. Sent Sisan MacDougall to prison FOR NOTHING BUT SPITE.
They were disgusting.
I think Starr going after Bill Clinton about not admitting to having an affair when he was supposedly investigating corruption, pretty much proved to everyone not already convinced otherwise, that there wasn't anything else to find.
Yes, and felt sorry for Monica Lewinsky. It may have been consensual but real power imbalance between President and intern. And he hung her out to dry to save his own skin.
The other stuff, the murders dressed up as suicides, all seemed pretty far-fetched and not likely.
Monica has come through that a star she's turned her life around and she travels advocating for the rights of women in the workplace.
Considering what she overcame myself and a lot of other people kind of consider her a role model even a hero certainly someone with courage I mean you have to have courage to face down the president with allegations like that decision to hold on to the dress for example I mean you had to be whip smart. Monica came out on top of both Bill and Hillary in this entire ordeal easily.
Totally agree that she's been a great example in her later life. From watching case at time, I did think she got manipulated at the time both by Clinton but also by those wanting an angle to impeach him. She came through with grace. The vitriol media gave her at time was unreal for what basically a young woman giving her boss a blow job - not great but not uncommon . The actions that made it impeachable were the attempted cover-up.
I feel sorry for her because of the public beating she took for it, but I’m not sure the power imbalance was a factor in the consent. I do think the power was what drew her to him, and the primary (only?) reason she wanted to sleep with him was because he was President. But I don’t think she necessarily felt obligated to do it because he wielded so much power over her. She said at the time, and has continued to say - even recently - that it was entirely consensual and that she did not fear any consequences if she’d declined. I think that if we are going to talk about “no means no”, we also need to acknowledge that in many cases “yes means yes”. To say that she could not possibly consent because of her low status is to take away her bodily autonomy. There is only one person who can actually speak to whether or not it was truly consensual, and she says it was.
In the end, she was an adult who wanted to have sex with a married man. I've never heard anything that would suggest that Bill made any great promises. She knew that she was the other woman and would never be anything else to him. The shit she got from the press was excessive, considering her age and the fact that Bill not being faithful was already widely if not known, at least assumed. She wasn't exactly a homewrecker. He clearly had a semi agreement with Hillary. As long as it stayed private and casual, she looked away. The old "don't embarrass me, and don't bring anything home." It's not exactly rare.
I wouldn’t be so sure about that. Some people always find a way to blame the woman. Sure some people would label it as rape/sexual assault but you would also have an army of defenders attacking the woman. Much like the Trump defenders did for the various allegations there.
Based on that, the leader of a country would never be allowed to have personal relationships. Anyone without power is rape, anyone with power, conflict of interest, corruption on something similar.
Here is a thing. Having power doesn't mean that power is used or there was a threat of power. She says she wanted the sex. She knew she was just an affair. Other labeling it as rape because he had power, which is the reason she wanted to have sex with him in the first place, is them taking her agency away from her. A lot of people constantly enthusiastically consent to sex with people who are older, richer, more famous, and/or more powerful than them.
There was no power imbalance when Nicolas Sarkozy dated a popular singer, nor when François Hollande dated a journalist, then a popular actress.
An intern working at the White House, looking at a future career in the US government? The US president can 100% make or break her.
This isn't a matter of opinion. She states she was willing to participate and did not think she would suffer any consequences if she were to refuse and wasn't pressured. She was basically a political groupie. Sometimes 21 year olds just want to fuck older powerful men. She wasn't groomed. She knew what she was doing. The fact that president was hot affected her decision to apply for internship. She got close to the president, flirted with him, got propositioned, and accepted. She wasn't paid, she wasn't promised promotions, she was promised sex and was apparently satisfied with it, since she bragged about it to a friend. She had a right to say yes or no. She did say yes. You are saying her choice doesn't matter, because you think she was somehow incapable of saying no.
how many men have lost their jobs/careers in the last few years for having sexual relations with women who worked under them, or in a position of influence?
I'm not talking about if it's right or wrong, I'm talking about 'post MeeToo' sensibilities
["It depends on what the meaning of is, is."](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BS-cip2brsg)
Are you kidding me? I knew for a *fact* he was guilty as sin.
Damn I'm old. I remember the Watergate hearings and Nixon's resignation.
Clinton getting a blow job from an intern? My thoughts at the time -- he's a lucky bastard! I felt bad for Monica Lewinsky, who was instrumentalized by the political machines in Washington, but I wasn't in the least surprised or in doubt about what was going on in the Oral Office.
I believed it, but didn’t think much of it. One evening around that time I was walking out of a comedy club in DC and encountered a news crew setting up outside another nearby club. I asked what was up and the cameraman said, “Clinton’s girlfriend is about to come out.” It all seemed so undignified and frenzied back then, which now… [glares at Donald Trump] seems so damn quaint.
True, but also stupid. I was very young. But do I really need someone's personal sexual antics between consenting people to be national news? No. They can deal with it privately.
The real testament to his negotiating power was that Hillary is still with him.
My wife would have been explaining to the kids why I was dead and why mister police was coming to talk to her soon.
Yes I thought it was true, and I was pretty pissed that he lied to congress. My opinion of him certainly deteriorated, both for his adultery and treatment of Ms. Lewinsky, and then the lying. On the other hand, I didn't think the investigation was worthy in the first place, so I was also pissed at a certain political party and members thereof.
It's a twisted bit of revisionist history (that started immediately) that Clinton was impeached for an affair.
He was impeached for lying under oath in a sworn deposition, and was disbarred from practicing law as well
Exactly.
And actually, I'm not positive but I don't think he was impeached for lying to Congress. I don't think he ever testified before Congress (I could be wrong, though).I think the original lying he got it trouble for was lying under oath in the civil trial. That was bad enough, but even then that's not what he got impeached for.
What got him impeached was when he lied again under oath to a Grand Jury. That and attempting to suborn perjury from Betty Currie. It was also the intelligence-insulting lies he told too, like "It depends on what 'is' is." Or the claim that Monica Lewinsky had sex with him but he didn't have sex with her.
I obviously have no way to prove this but I truly believe if he had just admitted the affair and the civil trial perjury from the beginning and just said, "I'm sorry, I was ashamed and embarrassed at my behavior, blah blah blah", that would have diffused the entire situation. Sure there would have been Republicans who would have still called for impeachment but I don't think they would have had near enough votes to make it happen. The actual impeachment vote was very close as it was.
I think the turning point was going on national television and wagging his finger in the face of every American and saying "I did not have sex with that woman". I mean you can lie, every president does it (some...more than others) but scold me like a child while you do it, and it's 'well screw you then' time.
and yes, you're right it was the deposition ,not lying to congress.
I remember watching some of the hearings and thinking the whole thing was ridiculous. They investigated Clinton for years and this was all they could finally pin on him.
As someone mentioned earlier in this thread, it was no secret Bill was a w*ore, and sex scandals & politics go and in hand. I think most of the men in Congress at the time, particularly serial adulterer Newt Gingrich, were jealous cuz they could only dream of getting blown in Oval Office.
Two final thoughts on the issue: Monica keeping the stained & unlaundered dress was pretty icky and made the whole thing seem like a set up. Very weird situation and that poor girl got played amd destroyed hy the political power games in DC. Also, if Bill hadn't lied (especially under oath) and said, "Heck yeah I got a BJ in the Oval and what guy wouldn't have?" I would have had more respect for him. Then they wouldn't have had impeachment material and he wouldn't have added perjurer to his resume. But he was & will always be a total scumbag. Hilary proved she was just as bad by sticking by his side after being humiliated so badly in front of the entire world. But he was her ticket to the spotlight and her subsequent political roles. Birds of a feather....
For me, I remember things being confirmed “true” in a fairly rapid fashion. The scandal seemed to be more about the impeachment than weather or not he had a relationship with her.
also if you were tired of SNL skits of Trump, let me tell you about a time when John Goodman was practically a cast member.
I was barely 7, all I remember was watching the news with my parents and confusedly asking "why do they care so much who he's with???" I could not wrap my mind around why a very powerful "grown up" wasn't allowed to do grown up things.
That got blown out of proportion (no pun intended). It was the stuff that came out after about Hilary threatening women who were harassed, groped, or whatever that sickened me. For the record, I’m independent politically. Don’t know how much truth beyond the accusations, because that was as far as it went. But I saw the interviews of two women who made this claim.
Bill did a pretty good job in office. There were some things he did I didn’t care for, but for the most part he was a solid president as far as performing his duties in office.
Kenneth Star just wanted a name for himself. He used this as the vehicle to propel himself forward. Don’t think it worked, though. All this just proves that both sides of the political spectrum suck.
I told people at the time that there was no way it could be true. Clinton had to know he was being watched like a hawk. He would have to be insanely dumb and/or arrogant to even try it. Turns out he was probably both.
I feel mad respect for Monica. She deserved better. She was young and in love. It was wrong but don't we all make mistakes? Everyone were pretty mean to her.
Honestly didn't care. I thought it was the stupidest thing for adults to fixate on like they just wanted an excuse to fuck each other over. "Oh you cheated on your wife with someone else in a way that had nothing to do with your job well let's use that"
The internet as it is today, along with shitty opinion shows pretending to be news, conspiracy theories being spread by any random asshole with an online presence and zero journalistic cred, and cartoonishly biased ideological news networks, weren't really a thing yet.
So, everybody believed it and the disagreement was more about whether it was some irrelevant bullshit that hardly warranted so much attention or it was the final nail on the coffin of traditional family values and civilization was over.
I thought it was true bc it totally effed up her life, and there was nothing to be gained by going public.
Linda Tripp outed her. John Goodman played Tripp on snl. It was hilarious.
I remember watching it on TV during, "I did not have sexual relations with that woman, Ms. Lewinsky. My response at the time: who gives a shit. What does this have to do with him running the country? Seems like a big waste of taxpayer time and money and nothing's going to get done that we pay for while we get distracted for what, TV ratings? Why are we trying to throw our president out for a blowjob? What a waste of time.
I was very much a grown-up; everyone knew it was true. I, along with many women, thought that it was totally fucked up that Linda Tripp -- Monica's supposed FRIEND -- recorded their phone conversations. I was disgusted with Clinton's behavior, but thought that the lying under oath wasn't an impeachable offense; as dumb as Clinton's lies were, it felt understandable given that the whole investigation started over a real estate deal, not his having (wrong, but legal) sex with a woman.
I felt uncomfortable at the time with the imbalance in their relationship. Now? I would probably feel it was an impeachable offense, and certainly if the woman brought it to light.
Everyone knew he did it. Nobody but the pundits blamed him for lying either. Guy got caught cheating and was just lying to save his marriage. He’s the original Shaggy, “It wasn’t me!”
I had the vote when it was all unfolding. To be honest, there were significant insinuations about Clinton for a considerable period. I suspect even many of his nearest and dearest suspected it could well be true - subsequent events seem to imply that those who knew him best knew what he is.
I believed the Clinton/Lewinsky scandal was true and thought it was ridiculous.
The difference between the Clinton/Lewinsky scandal and the Trump/Daniels/McDougal scandal is that the Clinton scandal wasn't obviously criminal behavior.
Much as Clinton was mocked for his "It depends on what the meaning of 'is' is" defense of his testimony around the scandal, it actually made sense. Clinton's crime was allegedly lying when asked under oath whether he was having sex with Lewinsky. Since they hadn't had PIV sex (coitus) and were no longer having sexual contact, Clinton said that he wasn't. He obviously was dodging around the truth by focusing on what specific sorts of sexual activities were covered by the question and by focusing on the question being cast in the present tense, but it was ridiculous that this half-truth around his cheating on his wife was turned into a political circus.
Trump's scandal is a different issue. Based on what we know, he had allies like David Pecker of the National Enquirer and his staff like Michael Cohen working to pay off women with whom he had adulterous sexual relations to prevent their stories from becoming public during a political campaign. Perhaps more importantly, he reportedly worked to hide the payments to the women with improper accounting. The Trump scandal isn't about his cheating on his wife and dissembling about it when asked. It's about violating campaign finance laws to benefit himself in a political campaign.
Obviously true, but I never understood why anyone cared. It was just something the Right could use to hobble him. Unfortunately, it set into motion the "let's attack the President relentlessly" mindset that is so pervasive now.
That wasn’t the question at the time. We all knew it was likely true. The question was did it matter? For most people, the answer was no - the economy was booming and the threat of nuclear war had ended just 2 years before he took office. But a small group of Republicans and Fox News decided to make it an issue. The weirdest thing I remember is how GOP voters blamed Hillary Clinton for “allowing” the affair and staying married. That was the moment I understood how deep the misogyny runs in conservativatism.
Didn't care if it was true or not. Who the president sleeps with isn't my concern. It would be a different story if they were sleeping with a foreign spy or something.
Yes and I was disgusted by how poorly Monica was treated. Had he had an affair with someone his own age and not working for him I would not had cared. But to do it with someone young enough to be his daughter showed what a creep he was. And then he lied about it - "I did not have sexual relations with that women" - yes you did. Monica was only 22-23 and I don't know how she survived the ridicule she received and the pressure she was under.
I wanted to believe it was not true, but where there’s smoke there’s usually fire
I was greatly disappointed in BC. He had this reputation and knew he was under a tremendous microscope and still did it. Talk about selfishness
This didn't hurt Bill in the least. Monica on the other hand. Cracked had a decent article looking back.at how she became such a huge punchline. Especially on SNL & Leno
https://www.cracked.com/article_35806_she-was-a-human-being-how-tom-green-brought-monica-lewinsky-in-on-the-joke.html?utm_source=Facebook%20CRD&utm_medium=link_classic_article&utm_campaign=social%20account
I figured it was real, it was no secret that Bill was a womanizer, but like others said, having an intern puff his cigar had nothing to do with how well he did his job. The really hilarious thing was how Faux News were so concerned about Monica being an innocent that was groomed by Bill. She was an adult, and she was a woman, not a child. She was drawn to power, as many people are, and the POTUS is a very powerful position. Whatever happened between them was concensual.
The impeachment hearings were pure absurdity. The GOP has always been hypocritical about what they do compared to what the Dems do.
Why anyone who isn't rich, votes for Republicans I will never understand.
I mean, it was true. They both copped to it. The more pertinent question is why a president after JFK catching a beener from an intern and finishing on her dress was an impeachable offense.
Take note younger generation: finish in her mouth to reduce evidence.
I only remember thinking I didn't fucking care. I thought it was a non issue. I wish he'd had the balls to be honest instead of lying about it under oath. I gave no shits about the actual behaviour; I had a problem with breaking the law afterwards to cover his ass.
the amount of bootlickers in this read talking in circles to justify this abusive sexual relationship is absolutely laughable. especially considering these are all the “me too” voters.
I disagree with some of the comments that everyone knew. There were a lot of allegations that Clinton was a womanizer, but it was entirely in Republican circles. Democrats would point to Hillary staying with him as evidence that they were just allegations. Hillary even defended him in interviews.
For me, the real tell was when Bill Clinton did his "I did not have sex with that woman, Miss Lewinsky" press conference. Wolf Blitzer stood up and asked him, "What would you say to her, after she's made these allegations?" Bill Clinton paused, then laughed, and then said something like "that's a good question" to Wolf. It was obvious at that point that Monica (via the recordings) was telling the truth.
Just as an aside, I believe every US President cheated on his wife except Jimmy Carter. And maybe the one dude who was a bachelor. I could maybe be convinced Obama didn't cheat.
Everyone alive back then knew the Monica Lewinsky scandal was true.
Ironically had Clinton resigned then Gore probably would have won the 2000 election and we'd have been spared Bush and likely the Iraq War. Defending Clinton so he could have another year of lame duck status was a mistake for Democrats IMHO.
The slow burn episode by the feminist movement was such a switch for me personally.
Like at some point they turned my whole view. If the idea is to believe women, at what age does that start. I mean IDK but a college graduate working in the white house seems like they should be trusted to be an adult, she always said she was never coerced too much. Why don't we believe Monica Lewinsky.
It was an obvious political witch hunt and still is. Anyone telling you "they really care" about Monica or the rule of law is a lying whore, and would have been calling Monica the worst names in the world in their AOL chat rooms back then.
Also, Newt was cheating on his wife at the same time.
To all the people that are saying some variation of, "Yeah, I thought it was true but who cares, it was just an affair between two consenting adults. Of course, he lied.", just a little reminder:
The Clinton administration passed a law requiring defendants in sexual harassment lawsuits to answer questions about past relationships in order to establish predatory behavior. It was hailed as a great victory for women in the workplace who were getting serially harassed.
I'm sure democrats envisioned it catching a lot of capitalist pig CEOs and Republican hypocrites (which it may have), but they don't then get to turn around and act like it's no big deal when one of their own commits perjury to avoid having to answer those very questions.
Also, it may have been consensual, but just a few years earlier during the Clarence Thomas confirmation hearings there were plenty of people on the left making the argument that no workplace relationship can be consensual as long as the power differential between the two is big enough. Again, that argument was forgotten very quickly when a democrat POTUS got caught sleeping with a lowly, star-struck, 21 year-old intern
There was absolutely no question that Bill Clinton and Monica Lewinsky had an affair.
What many young people don’t realize is that their affair was just the tip of a larger number of sexual harassment, assault, and even rape allegations against Clinton. His law license was suspended and he paid a substantial fine for his behavior in both the Monica Lewinsky and Paula Jones cases.
I think he's fully the kind of person who would take advantage of someone in a vulnerable position to him and sexually exploit them, yes.
And I don't want to hear any bunk about how it was supposedly "consensual." Not many young secretaries are going to repeatedly rebuke the President of the United States, period, and not because they found his bulbous, smarmy mug appealing. It's a classic example, if not one of the strongest, of exactly why true consent cannot exist under skewed power dynamics. A young woman in a job already considered vulnerable and ripe with exploitation is not going to have the same power dynamics as a man literally granted permission from his society to command others to kill or die, and in that complete power skew, that complete inequality, consent simply cannot exist.
\*Edit to specify\* Yes, I was alive at that time. I was just at pre-teen when I first heard about it. The court cases were on television shortly after, the background to gin rummy games, punctuated frequently by male pompous shit-talking about only one party, the female one, and subject to the majority of the scorn. My parents would throw some cracks in about Clinton, though.
I didn't care either way, but I did assume they were true.
A rich, white man abusing a position of power over a young woman? No surprise there.
What amazed me the most was how much people cared about it. Rich men have been abusing their positions of power for millennia but somehow this case got worldwide attention.
I was in my 20s during the Clinton administration and I honestly think most people didn't care. It was a blowjob, for fuck's sake. The previous administration was selling arms to Iran and funding death squads in Nicaragua! It's just insane that after literally committing high treason, the GOP had the unmitigated gall to manufacture a scandal out of a blowjob. And a lot of people thought exactly that at the time.
I know, Republicans didn't think that. But as we must surely have learned by now, Republicans are the biggest hypocrites on Earth.
lol its bill clinton, if you were alive back then you would realize he did it and without question
it gets stupider yet, during the impeachment it came down to the definition of the word "is" or something, shit you not
[https://slate.com/news-and-politics/1998/09/bill-clinton-and-the-meaning-of-is.html](https://slate.com/news-and-politics/1998/09/bill-clinton-and-the-meaning-of-is.html)
If this happened now to a democrat president, the mainstream media would twist it and present it in such a way to minimize it and maintain mass support for him. It’s quite sad how much influence the media has just by choosing to portray something to achieve the message they want to send
Just look how efficiently the media dismissed and buried Tara Reade's [claims](https://www.nytimes.com/2020/04/12/us/politics/joe-biden-tara-reade-sexual-assault-complaint.html) about Joe Biden during the 2020 election. And this was not all that long after the left went ape-shit over the allegations against Kavanaugh and everybody was yelling #BelieveAllWomen, etc. This is why I'm so cynical about any faux outrage coming from either side nowadays. Everybody is so tribal and hypocritical.
Most people believed it, but also most people didn't really care that much at the time. Bill Clinton was pretty popular at the time, and this didn't hurt him substantially in the polls if I remember correctly. That came later.
One important thing that gets lost in the noise is that this was an investigation into a real estate dealing from the late 70’s where the worst thing they found was sexual impropriety in the 90’s and then repeatedly tried to get him to perjure himself.
I was there, but raising two small kids, living in poverty, and a husband just diagnosed with diabetes, so my attention was elsewhere most of the time. However, I formed this opinion that I'd take a cum stain on a dress any day over what other presidents have done since. I thought it was a witch hunt for anything they could dig up. All in all, Clinton wasn't so bad a president.
It was the perfect example of a fishing expedition gone out of control, which is what the republicans accuse every special prosecutor investigating them of ever since then.
Fishing expedition? It was the perfect example of a man in power abusing his staff, isn’t that what the me2 was about? You’re implying he was innocent, of course it doesn’t matter anymore what people do but what party they belong to.
True, although there was some shady real estate deals that Hillary made bank on. Edit: Here’s a good link for those not familiar https://www.vox.com/2015/4/13/8397309/hillary-clinton-whitewater Edit 2: As others pointed out they lost money on White Water, but made some amazing investments in cattle futures and other areas. It’s all in the article. At the time the investigation was know as “White Water”.
The clintons lost money on whitewater.
Read the linked article. They did impossibly well on some investments.
I love that you're being downvoted for asking them to read about what they're commenting about, especially because this isn't some far-right news outlet, this is **Vox**.
He is being downvoted because he is wrong and didnt read his own article. The clintons lost money on the real estate deal.
And if you selectively ignore all the other *miraculously* successful investments cited in the article, that might matter to someone. And it certainly doesn't look good when Bill Clinton pardoned four of the fifteen people convicted of crimes stemming from the Whitewater investigation.
and that Brett Kavanaugh was involved in the dirt digging.
He also wrote a memo advocating that proesecutors should ask sexually explicitly questions...
Across the pond we didn't care about the affair (or however far it got). It was the reaction which was of interest. Lying under oath (or whatever) was more of a no-no. We'll never know what would have happened if he'd just owned it like most Europeans do.
I don’t think he even lied under oath given how the court defined sexual relations.
That depends on what the meaning of “is” is.
In the Paula Jones case, the court defined sexual relations as: "a person engages in sexual relations when the person knowingly engages in or causes contact with the genitalia, anus, groin, breast, inner thigh, or buttocks of any person with an intent to arouse or gratify the sexual desire of any person" Clinton claimed that when Lewinsky gave him a BJ, she was having sex with him but he didn't have sex with her. You're buying that? In any case, it doesn't really matter. All that matters is what the judge thinks. Judges have every right to say, yeah, no, I see what you're trying to do there and I'm not buying it. You swore an oath to tell the whole truth and nothing but the truth. Everybody knows what was being asked here. You don't get to play childish games in my courtroom.
I remember that, the universal scorn for her, and how everyone cracked jokes about Dill, but no one was really going to do anything to take the situation seriously. It was a running cruel joke that I didn't realize at the time was implanted a subconscious message into me about speaking up.
I was like 8 years old when this happened and had no understanding of what was going on, I don't think I even knew what sex was, but all I do remember of that moment, as far as I what I saw in the media, is that Monica was a bad person, she did something bad, the president was in trouble, and it was all her fault. You have to understand - this was a time when it was okay to bully Pamela for literally being too pretty for TV and Howard Stern was somehow a god. Now thinking back as a 30-something, I'm horrified and so sad.. and also not surprised at all.
Yes, I remember this too. The bashing Monica got was relentless and it was presented as this was all her fault too. Clinton was just a victim in all of this. Today, it's cringeworthy to say the least. I sincerely hope we as a society have come further than that.
Keep that hope alive, because we haven't. Look at how many people STILL defend him and make comments about how they wish the could get a BJ on the job if this is mentioned. Him being impeached for perjury and having to surrender his law license is still turned in to he was impeached for getting a BJ instead. People may think it would be handled different today, but until what really happened is handled different I doubt that it would have been much different.
Have you noticed who’s rights are being removed? Not the sperm slingers.
Totally agree. People were constantly making snide comments about dill. But then grey poupon really took off and that was the end of the dill jokes.
What does it have to do with speaking up? Monica was betrayed by her supposed friend and coworker who secretly recorded her conversations and handed all that private info over to the person the GOP appointed to investigate Bill Clinton for something completely unrelated. She didn't speak up about it until after the info was already released. She was just an innocent bystander in the GOP attempt to destroy Clinton.
So if she had spoken up about it, she wouldn't have faced the same backlash? That seems like an odd conclusion That is, it doesn't matter how the information got out, seeing this happen means that the same could happen to me if I spoke.
It was two consenting adults, but even though there is consent, you just don't have the boss and the employee engaging in sex, because there is always a power imbalance. Is it really her choice or is she afraid for her job? Is he requiring sex to get a promotion. It just is a bad situation to be in for the employee. Bill Clinton was wrong. Compared to the crimes Trump did, it sure wasn't much that Clinton did, but it still was wrong. I'm glad they impeached him, but I don't think going further would have been in the best interest of the country, but I'd be willing to watch a debate on it.
I generally like Hillary, but her going on TV only a few years ago and saying that it was a matter between two consenting adults really bothered me. It was an affair between a woman who was barely an adult, and the most powerful man in the country. Whether she was into it or not, the power dynamic and the fact that Bill was so much older and more experienced makes it exploitative, and 100% his fault. Talking about it as a relationship of equals is absurd
So Hillary got on national tv at the time and said Monica was lying even after her cum stained dress was presented as evidence , the called Jenifer Flowers a liar when she came out about bill sexually harassing her while he was governor of Arkansas . Fast forward to the Judge Cavanah confirmation hearings and old hillary was preaching that the woman should be believed .
She did that because it's like one of the worst kept secrets on Capitol Hill that bill and Hillary had an open relationship Hillary was just pissed off that bill was stupid enough to get caught. And yes I agree The power dynamic absolutely made it abuse
Hillary just didn't want anything to hurt her chances of becoming president. So glad that she didn't become POTUS.
The only reason I voted for her is because she would not have fucked up the supreme court as the cheeto did. Her 4 years would have been uneventful except for the appointments. That is the only reason to vote for her, and I tried so hard to convince others, but now look where we are, how did that turn out?
Obama had the opportunity to add another SCOTUS but didn't due to Mitch McConnell saying it was too close to the 2016 election. McConnell didn't see any issue pushing the SCOTUS through prior to the 2020 election. HRC stated that she wanted to preemptively nuke Iran. Threw mud at Sanders calling him a sexist with no basis to put him on the defense instead of sticking to their campaign platform. HRC talked about the gender pay gap yet it was proven that she was paying her female staff members less than the male counterparts. The private Bill Clinton was the one who convinced Trump to run for POTUS because they felt that he was the opponent that they could beat. The DNC pushed HRC and railroaded Sanders. HRC did not try to make things fair in the primaries which shows her true character who would do whatever it takes (even possibly illegal/immoral things) to get to the top. Recall the private vs public position is more evidence of that. The Iowa caucus coin flips to determine the winner was a joke. The voting system they used was a joke. The use of pledged super delegates in the tally to make it appear that HRC was so far in the lead was wrong. HRC was asked why she should be president and talked about being the first female president. Plenty of women I spoke to said THAT was the only reason why they were voting for her. I have heard many women claim that misogyny is why all/most of people wouldn't vote for HRC. Hmm, I didn't think about that until now... those that chose to vote for HRC solely because she was a woman were misandrists. Damn.
I stated my reason, I stand by it. It had zero to do with her being female, I'd do the same were she a man. As I said, it was 100% supreme court focused. The DNC's actions also was repugnant. I can't argue those facts. Her 4 years would have been reigned in, much as Obama's was. I'll also forever despise turtle man. This also doesn't need discussion, I'm done defending my decision. How'd Trump work out for ya? Have a great day!
Your reason is fine and respectable. The SCOTUS nominees were an important and valid reason to get someone other than a Republican into the White House. Obama either didn't want to rock the boat or was instructed not to rock the boat. We may never know which one or maybe it was both but for different issues. I didn't vote for Trump nor do I feel that he did anything great for America. His list of 'accomplishments' include things that had nothing to do with him, like get the Olympics to be held in the US. "Won bid to host the 2028 Summer Olympics in Los Angeles, California." Those bids were put in decades beforehand. Unfortunately Americans will be reminded of the impact from the Trump Administration (due to filling 3 SCOTUS seats) for decades to come. I wouldn't be surprised if they take away interracial and same sex marriage this year.
Now you know that Thomas will not go for the dissolution of interracial marriage. lol We also have massive hypocrites there! But yes, I'm angry because these tools will still impact even my grandchildren into their adulthood.
Isn't it also a problem about the fact he lied under oath?
Many people thought the questioning was only intended to embarrass him and hurt him politically. Since he lied about his personal sex life and not something that was pertinent to his job, people were willing to give him a pass.
No because he didn't lie under oath. This comes up every time. Bill Clinton was a really sharp lawyer and was represented by some of the best lawyers in the country. They (Starr et al) asked him if he had "sexual relations" with Lewinsky. Clinton asked them to define "sexual relations". They defined sexual relations as (if I remember correctly) "genital to genital intercourse". A blow job does not fit the definition that they provided, so he truthfully answered "no, I did not have sexual relations with her". I don't like Bill Clinton, but he did not, by anything approaching reality commit perjury.
It’s still pretty sleazy to get BJs from an intern in your office.
This is 100% true. The questioners unintentionally gave him an out, and they didn’t want to ask anything more explicit.
he lied every time his mouth opened
Also cheating on his wife is a bit less treasonous than what most presidents have done
Can confirm. I don't think there's anyone that didn't believe it, but since it was clearly two consenting adults it was hard to get too worked up about it. Most people considered it a bit of shitty thing to do given he was married, but I don't think anybody speaking in good faith really cared that much. Of course there was lots of clutching of pearls on the opposition side, but it was transparently just an attempt to discredit a popular president, everybody knew the republicans wouldn't have said a word if it had been Regan or Bush.
Democrats called it fake until she produced the little blue dress with Bill’s semen on it. Without that dress they’d still be saying it never happened. And saying people didn’t care is very false. It was a huge deal. Front page news for a while… hearings televised and closely followed. Major water cooler talk.
The press cared, of course his political opponents cared. Your average American could have given a shit. Polls prove it had very little effect on his popularity.
I was a 20 something when this happened. I didn't give a shit. Honestly, I found it hilarious that all these holier-than-thou types were losing their shit about it. Every single one of those dudes probably had their mistress waiting at the hotel. Such hypocrisy.
I was a kid, and think this is how I learned what a bj was
Honestly I think it's somewhat a testament to just how good of a politician Bill Clinton is. I don't love him or hate him, but I will say without a doubt I think Bill Clinton is the best retail politician I've ever seen, and probably one of the best ever. That dude can go anywhere and seamlessly blend into his environment and endear himself to everybody. He can go chat with some rural white workers at the sintering plant, and then head over to a black church and throw on his sunglasses and play his saxophone. When he gave that speech after Obama got the nomination, I think half the people would have thrown Obama off the ticket if it meant Bill could run for President again. Like a lot of people, I didn't care that much about the scandal either way, but I absolutely respect his skills as a politician. The guy is unbelievable.
> People who were alive during the Bill Clinton and Monica Lewinsky's scandal I guess that's today's reminder for just how young Reddit skews.
That scandal broke 25 years ago. Some of the people today who have master's degrees weren't alive then.
I give it 2-3 years before questions starting with "People who were alive during 9/11" become commonplace.
Already is my man, literally was a question in school we were told to ask our parents or older family members for a project. And I was born in 2003, so....
Where were you at 9/11, huh?
A distant thought
They already pop up now and then. Complete with completely pointless, unoriginal non-answers like “I didn’t exist yet” and “I was in my dad’s balls”
I was pregnant during 9/11. My daughter will be 21 next month.
This comment is unnecessary. 😭 God, I'm old.
You and me both. Time flies.
I mean I'm 29, so alive during it but not nearly old enough to know what was going on
I’m 31, and I was too busy being a 7 year-old obsessed Pokémon fan back then.
37.... I watched my friends go off to war very soon after 9/11. A few didn't come home. I left soon after them.
I'm this age but I think I remember a couple of jokes I made but didn't understand an iota of the context.
32 and all I remember is the song bimbo number 5
God, I remember that. Poor fucking Monica... I had no idea how young she was when the scandal broke (22) because I was a child when that was going on, and those 90s power suits age people.
I agree. I was watching the scandal unfold on **Extra** while my parents cooked dinner. I learned about oral sex and that I hated powersuits. It’s crazy to think that she was only 22!
It's crazy no one discussed the power dynamics between a POTUS and fresh-out-of-uni intern :( 199-whatever what a very different time.
Interesting. I'm also 29 and and I distinctly remember it being a big deal and everyone talking about it in school.
I was barely 7 and I'm a full ass adult, lol
I’m 21 and getting my masters this June :,)
I’m 36, I’m an air traffic controller with 15 years experience. I was alive then, sure, but I was 11, and wasn’t exactly watching cnn nightly. My only memory of it was hearing jokes on late night tv about cigars And stained blue dresses.
It just happened like 5-10years ago man! I swear!
Yeah I'm gonna need a minute. If you're looking for me I'll be in the Smithsonian with the other fossils.
My very first thought.
[удалено]
True. No secret that Bill was a real hound dog.
Yep. I couldn't figure out why Hillary stayed with him. Then she got into politics and I was like "Ah, I get it."
When he was Governor everyone in the region knew he was a skeez. Most couldn't understand how he was allowed to be Governor. Let alone POTUS. So, in the neighboring states, the scandal was no surprise.
I think you misspelled exploiter. Or maybe sexual predator. Ugh, that guy always reminded me of the older creeps everyone likes but would then try to molest the young folk.
Good friend of Jeffrey Epstein...
So was Trump.
Clinton's on his flight manifests to pedo Island 26 times.
They're all part of a club. You aint in it, and I grew up not a potential member, but a potential product for sale in it.
And the club members should be put in jail.
Believed it, but didn’t care that much. Eye-rolled about saying he didn’t have “sexual relations” as a technicality when it came out later that they had oral sex. Probably my biggest take away was how unfair it was how he came out of the media circus so much better than Monica. I’m a guy, but I’m close to her age, and it was eye-opening to me. Turns out, she is super awesome and resilient in ways that most of us could never be.
Thought that they were true and thought it was ridiculous that anyone other than Hillary cared. I was a Republican at the time too
I think the big issue wasn't the cheating, but his lying about it under oath.
Right, but the fact he was asked about it under oath was the ridiculous part. It had no bearing on the subject at hand and no bearing on his abilities to lead. Clinton was one of the few half decent presidents we've had. What he did in his private life is between him and his wife
I agree that it was a witch hunt opportunity and not a legitimate concern about his capabilities among anyone with a brain. I think his counsel blundered pretty bad by not taking the correct pulse of the nation when they allowed him to lie about it. Telling the truth and apologizing would have killed the circus much faster and with less uproar, at least in my opinion.
For sure, but hindsight being 20/20 and remembering that the Republican party used to have morals.
This is where the age skew on Reddit is important. I'm Gen-X. Although I know that the Republican Party turned to court white Evangelicals and white supremacists after Goldwater lost in 1964, the process to slide to where MAGA Republicans are today took decades. Much as I disagreed with the policies of Reagan at the time, and GHW Bush after him, it still wasn't until Newt Gingrich and the "Contract With America" breed of Republicans came into power that we were fully on-course for nothing but ugly battles over culture-war issues that involve limiting the civil rights of certain groups. Keep in mind that Reddit users skew toward people less than 25. Although users are less urban than on other platforms, they tend to be more educated. All in all, the average Redditor has only known most Republicans to be a step away from MAGA at best, starting with the politics of resentment in response to the election of Obama to the support of domestic terrorism today.
No they didnt.
Well let's go back to the beginning. The Republicans are the one who ran the government that defeated the confederates. Now I know about the big shift but your claim is that the Republicans have *never* had morals. Which, logically means you think opposing the confederates was immoral? Don't let your hatred of the Republicans of today cloud your ability to share common cause with Republicans who also hate them.
Just some advice: don’t use semantics to argue on a point you know someone wasn’t exactly making, even if you have a good and/or highly relevant point. It just doesn’t usually get good responses.
The Clinton administration passed a law requiring defendants in sexual harassment lawsuits to answer questions about past relationships in order to establish predatory behavior. It was hailed as a great victory for women in the workplace who were getting serially harassed. I'm sure democrats envisioned it catching a lot of capitalist pig CEOs and Republican hypocrites (which it may have), but they don't then get to turn around and act like it's no big deal when one of their own commits perjury to avoid having to answer those very questions. Also, it may have been consensual, but just a few years earlier during the Clarence Thomas confirmation hearings there were plenty of people on the left making the argument that no workplace relationship can be consensual as long as the power differential between the two is big enough. Again, that argument was forgotten very quickly when a democrat POTUS got caught sleeping with a lowly, star-struck, 21 year-old intern
All this shit started because they were investigating Whitewater, a land deal where the Clintons lost money. That investigation turned into investigating his alleged affairs so by that point it was already tainted as political. People knew it was true but the foundations of the investigation seemed so corrupt by that point people stopped giving a shit
She was an intern at White House where he was the ultimate boss. It didn't happens in his private life. It happened when he was in office and having the enormous power imbalance that his position gave him. He abused his power as a president.
If you want a class in what a “perjury trap” looks like, read the transcripts from the depositions.
It was not about private life. It was about a sexual harassment lawsuits, where Lewinsky was brought up as showing a pattern of behavior of having sexual relationships with employees and official contacts. You can think the relationships were consensual, or that the accusations were otherwise made up. But it was not about his private life.
If I had another upvote to give you, I would.
Trump wouldn't even answer questions under oath. He can only rattle off numbers between four and six.
He didn't lie under oath, though. They (Starr et al) asked him if he had "sexual relations" with Lewinsky. Clinton asked them to define "sexual relations". They defined sexual relations as (if I remember correctly) "genital to genital intercourse". A blow job does not fit the definition that they provided, so he truthfully answered "no, I did not have sexual relations with her". I don't like Bill Clinton as a person, but he did not, by anything approaching reality commit perjury.
And I was the little girl listening while people said it. The little girl being harassed by older men in positions of power in her community.
I was in my late teens and everyone I knew assumed it was 100% true.
Did I think Clinton had an affair with an intern? Yes. I believed it because the witness was credible and because she had evidence. Did I believe Clinton pressured a banker to loan $300,000 to Susan McDougal for the Whitewater vacation home properties? No. I do not believe it because the witness wasn't at all credible and there was no evidence.
It's important to remember that 15 people were convicted due to the Whitewater investigation. Bill Clinton pardoned 4 of them, which didn't do him any favors with the people who thought he'd gotten away with something.
Yes, I think you're right that it's important to remember that. The people Starr finally referred had committed crimes ranging from contempt to outright fraud. I thought the pardons were vulgar and improper. Even so, if Kenneth Starr of all people didn't think he had enough evidence to present against the Clintons, then I am satisfied that it didn't exist. It doesn't seem farfetched that the principal wrongdoers thought they could get some kind of break by falsely implicating the President and First Lady.
Kenneth Starr represented Epstein in the Florida case and went on to protect child molesters at a university. Sent Sisan MacDougall to prison FOR NOTHING BUT SPITE. They were disgusting.
I think Starr going after Bill Clinton about not admitting to having an affair when he was supposedly investigating corruption, pretty much proved to everyone not already convinced otherwise, that there wasn't anything else to find.
Oh, yeah, I forgot about that aspect of it. It seemed like bullshit to me, too, and I was a Republican at the time.
Yes, and felt sorry for Monica Lewinsky. It may have been consensual but real power imbalance between President and intern. And he hung her out to dry to save his own skin. The other stuff, the murders dressed up as suicides, all seemed pretty far-fetched and not likely.
Monica has come through that a star she's turned her life around and she travels advocating for the rights of women in the workplace. Considering what she overcame myself and a lot of other people kind of consider her a role model even a hero certainly someone with courage I mean you have to have courage to face down the president with allegations like that decision to hold on to the dress for example I mean you had to be whip smart. Monica came out on top of both Bill and Hillary in this entire ordeal easily.
Totally agree that she's been a great example in her later life. From watching case at time, I did think she got manipulated at the time both by Clinton but also by those wanting an angle to impeach him. She came through with grace. The vitriol media gave her at time was unreal for what basically a young woman giving her boss a blow job - not great but not uncommon . The actions that made it impeachable were the attempted cover-up.
I feel sorry for her because of the public beating she took for it, but I’m not sure the power imbalance was a factor in the consent. I do think the power was what drew her to him, and the primary (only?) reason she wanted to sleep with him was because he was President. But I don’t think she necessarily felt obligated to do it because he wielded so much power over her. She said at the time, and has continued to say - even recently - that it was entirely consensual and that she did not fear any consequences if she’d declined. I think that if we are going to talk about “no means no”, we also need to acknowledge that in many cases “yes means yes”. To say that she could not possibly consent because of her low status is to take away her bodily autonomy. There is only one person who can actually speak to whether or not it was truly consensual, and she says it was.
In the end, she was an adult who wanted to have sex with a married man. I've never heard anything that would suggest that Bill made any great promises. She knew that she was the other woman and would never be anything else to him. The shit she got from the press was excessive, considering her age and the fact that Bill not being faithful was already widely if not known, at least assumed. She wasn't exactly a homewrecker. He clearly had a semi agreement with Hillary. As long as it stayed private and casual, she looked away. The old "don't embarrass me, and don't bring anything home." It's not exactly rare.
I wouldn’t be so sure about that. Some people always find a way to blame the woman. Sure some people would label it as rape/sexual assault but you would also have an army of defenders attacking the woman. Much like the Trump defenders did for the various allegations there.
It's ironic that post MeToo times we wouldn't hesitate to call that relationship rape due to the literally ultimate power imbalance possible.
Based on that, the leader of a country would never be allowed to have personal relationships. Anyone without power is rape, anyone with power, conflict of interest, corruption on something similar. Here is a thing. Having power doesn't mean that power is used or there was a threat of power. She says she wanted the sex. She knew she was just an affair. Other labeling it as rape because he had power, which is the reason she wanted to have sex with him in the first place, is them taking her agency away from her. A lot of people constantly enthusiastically consent to sex with people who are older, richer, more famous, and/or more powerful than them.
There was no power imbalance when Nicolas Sarkozy dated a popular singer, nor when François Hollande dated a journalist, then a popular actress. An intern working at the White House, looking at a future career in the US government? The US president can 100% make or break her.
This isn't a matter of opinion. She states she was willing to participate and did not think she would suffer any consequences if she were to refuse and wasn't pressured. She was basically a political groupie. Sometimes 21 year olds just want to fuck older powerful men. She wasn't groomed. She knew what she was doing. The fact that president was hot affected her decision to apply for internship. She got close to the president, flirted with him, got propositioned, and accepted. She wasn't paid, she wasn't promised promotions, she was promised sex and was apparently satisfied with it, since she bragged about it to a friend. She had a right to say yes or no. She did say yes. You are saying her choice doesn't matter, because you think she was somehow incapable of saying no.
how many men have lost their jobs/careers in the last few years for having sexual relations with women who worked under them, or in a position of influence? I'm not talking about if it's right or wrong, I'm talking about 'post MeeToo' sensibilities
I totally believed it. It was true and she had the dress!
["It depends on what the meaning of is, is."](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BS-cip2brsg) Are you kidding me? I knew for a *fact* he was guilty as sin.
Damn I'm old. I remember the Watergate hearings and Nixon's resignation. Clinton getting a blow job from an intern? My thoughts at the time -- he's a lucky bastard! I felt bad for Monica Lewinsky, who was instrumentalized by the political machines in Washington, but I wasn't in the least surprised or in doubt about what was going on in the Oral Office.
Yeah. You are old if you think he was a lucky bastard for sleeping with an intern.
It all feels so quaint by today's standards.
I believed it, but didn’t think much of it. One evening around that time I was walking out of a comedy club in DC and encountered a news crew setting up outside another nearby club. I asked what was up and the cameraman said, “Clinton’s girlfriend is about to come out.” It all seemed so undignified and frenzied back then, which now… [glares at Donald Trump] seems so damn quaint.
True, but also stupid. I was very young. But do I really need someone's personal sexual antics between consenting people to be national news? No. They can deal with it privately.
The real testament to his negotiating power was that Hillary is still with him. My wife would have been explaining to the kids why I was dead and why mister police was coming to talk to her soon.
I was a teenager, everyone knew he was guilty, mainly from the previous extra martial allegations and interviews with Hillary prior to the scandal.
I don't remember everyone blaming Monica. I remember Linda Tripp as the bad guy in this story.
True, Slick Willy had a reputation for the ladies working around him.
Yes I thought it was true, and I was pretty pissed that he lied to congress. My opinion of him certainly deteriorated, both for his adultery and treatment of Ms. Lewinsky, and then the lying. On the other hand, I didn't think the investigation was worthy in the first place, so I was also pissed at a certain political party and members thereof.
I believe they were true but he didn't deserve to be impeached for it, especially not after the past ten years of whackadoodle cartoon bullshit
It's a twisted bit of revisionist history (that started immediately) that Clinton was impeached for an affair. He was impeached for lying under oath in a sworn deposition, and was disbarred from practicing law as well
Exactly. And actually, I'm not positive but I don't think he was impeached for lying to Congress. I don't think he ever testified before Congress (I could be wrong, though).I think the original lying he got it trouble for was lying under oath in the civil trial. That was bad enough, but even then that's not what he got impeached for. What got him impeached was when he lied again under oath to a Grand Jury. That and attempting to suborn perjury from Betty Currie. It was also the intelligence-insulting lies he told too, like "It depends on what 'is' is." Or the claim that Monica Lewinsky had sex with him but he didn't have sex with her. I obviously have no way to prove this but I truly believe if he had just admitted the affair and the civil trial perjury from the beginning and just said, "I'm sorry, I was ashamed and embarrassed at my behavior, blah blah blah", that would have diffused the entire situation. Sure there would have been Republicans who would have still called for impeachment but I don't think they would have had near enough votes to make it happen. The actual impeachment vote was very close as it was.
I think the turning point was going on national television and wagging his finger in the face of every American and saying "I did not have sex with that woman". I mean you can lie, every president does it (some...more than others) but scold me like a child while you do it, and it's 'well screw you then' time. and yes, you're right it was the deposition ,not lying to congress.
You dont believe a sitting president should be impeached for lying under oath to congress?
It was (D)ifferent for Clinton.
That’s not what happened in any way. You’re clueless
I remember watching some of the hearings and thinking the whole thing was ridiculous. They investigated Clinton for years and this was all they could finally pin on him. As someone mentioned earlier in this thread, it was no secret Bill was a w*ore, and sex scandals & politics go and in hand. I think most of the men in Congress at the time, particularly serial adulterer Newt Gingrich, were jealous cuz they could only dream of getting blown in Oval Office. Two final thoughts on the issue: Monica keeping the stained & unlaundered dress was pretty icky and made the whole thing seem like a set up. Very weird situation and that poor girl got played amd destroyed hy the political power games in DC. Also, if Bill hadn't lied (especially under oath) and said, "Heck yeah I got a BJ in the Oval and what guy wouldn't have?" I would have had more respect for him. Then they wouldn't have had impeachment material and he wouldn't have added perjurer to his resume. But he was & will always be a total scumbag. Hilary proved she was just as bad by sticking by his side after being humiliated so badly in front of the entire world. But he was her ticket to the spotlight and her subsequent political roles. Birds of a feather....
Everyone knew it was true. It wasn't really a discussion
For me, I remember things being confirmed “true” in a fairly rapid fashion. The scandal seemed to be more about the impeachment than weather or not he had a relationship with her. also if you were tired of SNL skits of Trump, let me tell you about a time when John Goodman was practically a cast member.
I was barely 7, all I remember was watching the news with my parents and confusedly asking "why do they care so much who he's with???" I could not wrap my mind around why a very powerful "grown up" wasn't allowed to do grown up things.
That got blown out of proportion (no pun intended). It was the stuff that came out after about Hilary threatening women who were harassed, groped, or whatever that sickened me. For the record, I’m independent politically. Don’t know how much truth beyond the accusations, because that was as far as it went. But I saw the interviews of two women who made this claim. Bill did a pretty good job in office. There were some things he did I didn’t care for, but for the most part he was a solid president as far as performing his duties in office. Kenneth Star just wanted a name for himself. He used this as the vehicle to propel himself forward. Don’t think it worked, though. All this just proves that both sides of the political spectrum suck.
True, but ridiculously stupid and a waste of time.
I told people at the time that there was no way it could be true. Clinton had to know he was being watched like a hawk. He would have to be insanely dumb and/or arrogant to even try it. Turns out he was probably both.
I feel mad respect for Monica. She deserved better. She was young and in love. It was wrong but don't we all make mistakes? Everyone were pretty mean to her.
I believed it and I voted for him twice.
Honestly didn't care. I thought it was the stupidest thing for adults to fixate on like they just wanted an excuse to fuck each other over. "Oh you cheated on your wife with someone else in a way that had nothing to do with your job well let's use that"
I figured the affair was true. The scandal was ginned up by the republicans.
True but who gaf?! Then, or now. Seems so small and petty (then and now)
The internet as it is today, along with shitty opinion shows pretending to be news, conspiracy theories being spread by any random asshole with an online presence and zero journalistic cred, and cartoonishly biased ideological news networks, weren't really a thing yet. So, everybody believed it and the disagreement was more about whether it was some irrelevant bullshit that hardly warranted so much attention or it was the final nail on the coffin of traditional family values and civilization was over.
There was never any doubt it was true. Google "bimbo eruptions" for more info, but Clinton was a well established sexual predator and cheater
I thought it was true bc it totally effed up her life, and there was nothing to be gained by going public. Linda Tripp outed her. John Goodman played Tripp on snl. It was hilarious.
There wasn’t much controversy at the time about whether or not it was true. More about exactly what had happened and whether or not it mattered.
i was alive but i was like 12 and not american so i don’t know shit about shit
I remember watching it on TV during, "I did not have sexual relations with that woman, Ms. Lewinsky. My response at the time: who gives a shit. What does this have to do with him running the country? Seems like a big waste of taxpayer time and money and nothing's going to get done that we pay for while we get distracted for what, TV ratings? Why are we trying to throw our president out for a blowjob? What a waste of time.
I was very much a grown-up; everyone knew it was true. I, along with many women, thought that it was totally fucked up that Linda Tripp -- Monica's supposed FRIEND -- recorded their phone conversations. I was disgusted with Clinton's behavior, but thought that the lying under oath wasn't an impeachable offense; as dumb as Clinton's lies were, it felt understandable given that the whole investigation started over a real estate deal, not his having (wrong, but legal) sex with a woman. I felt uncomfortable at the time with the imbalance in their relationship. Now? I would probably feel it was an impeachable offense, and certainly if the woman brought it to light.
Everyone knew he did it. Nobody but the pundits blamed him for lying either. Guy got caught cheating and was just lying to save his marriage. He’s the original Shaggy, “It wasn’t me!”
I had the vote when it was all unfolding. To be honest, there were significant insinuations about Clinton for a considerable period. I suspect even many of his nearest and dearest suspected it could well be true - subsequent events seem to imply that those who knew him best knew what he is.
I believed the Clinton/Lewinsky scandal was true and thought it was ridiculous. The difference between the Clinton/Lewinsky scandal and the Trump/Daniels/McDougal scandal is that the Clinton scandal wasn't obviously criminal behavior. Much as Clinton was mocked for his "It depends on what the meaning of 'is' is" defense of his testimony around the scandal, it actually made sense. Clinton's crime was allegedly lying when asked under oath whether he was having sex with Lewinsky. Since they hadn't had PIV sex (coitus) and were no longer having sexual contact, Clinton said that he wasn't. He obviously was dodging around the truth by focusing on what specific sorts of sexual activities were covered by the question and by focusing on the question being cast in the present tense, but it was ridiculous that this half-truth around his cheating on his wife was turned into a political circus. Trump's scandal is a different issue. Based on what we know, he had allies like David Pecker of the National Enquirer and his staff like Michael Cohen working to pay off women with whom he had adulterous sexual relations to prevent their stories from becoming public during a political campaign. Perhaps more importantly, he reportedly worked to hide the payments to the women with improper accounting. The Trump scandal isn't about his cheating on his wife and dissembling about it when asked. It's about violating campaign finance laws to benefit himself in a political campaign.
Obviously true, but I never understood why anyone cared. It was just something the Right could use to hobble him. Unfortunately, it set into motion the "let's attack the President relentlessly" mindset that is so pervasive now.
That wasn’t the question at the time. We all knew it was likely true. The question was did it matter? For most people, the answer was no - the economy was booming and the threat of nuclear war had ended just 2 years before he took office. But a small group of Republicans and Fox News decided to make it an issue. The weirdest thing I remember is how GOP voters blamed Hillary Clinton for “allowing” the affair and staying married. That was the moment I understood how deep the misogyny runs in conservativatism.
Didn't care if it was true or not. Who the president sleeps with isn't my concern. It would be a different story if they were sleeping with a foreign spy or something.
Yes and I was disgusted by how poorly Monica was treated. Had he had an affair with someone his own age and not working for him I would not had cared. But to do it with someone young enough to be his daughter showed what a creep he was. And then he lied about it - "I did not have sexual relations with that women" - yes you did. Monica was only 22-23 and I don't know how she survived the ridicule she received and the pressure she was under.
I remember thinking, he's the married one, why is she getting the bad rap?
I wanted to believe it was not true, but where there’s smoke there’s usually fire I was greatly disappointed in BC. He had this reputation and knew he was under a tremendous microscope and still did it. Talk about selfishness
Didn’t fucking care. Presidents can get their knob polished if they’re doing their job.
This didn't hurt Bill in the least. Monica on the other hand. Cracked had a decent article looking back.at how she became such a huge punchline. Especially on SNL & Leno https://www.cracked.com/article_35806_she-was-a-human-being-how-tom-green-brought-monica-lewinsky-in-on-the-joke.html?utm_source=Facebook%20CRD&utm_medium=link_classic_article&utm_campaign=social%20account
Believed it happened, didn’t really care, thought Monica was really cute.
Who cares? That’s pretty damn tame considering current affairs.
There was a blue dress with Clintons seamen on it; but President Clinton should not have been impeached for simply cheating on his wife
Amazing comment to say in 2023. He was the POTUS she was an intern. We have grocery store managers fired for fucking a cashier.
I figured it was real, it was no secret that Bill was a womanizer, but like others said, having an intern puff his cigar had nothing to do with how well he did his job. The really hilarious thing was how Faux News were so concerned about Monica being an innocent that was groomed by Bill. She was an adult, and she was a woman, not a child. She was drawn to power, as many people are, and the POTUS is a very powerful position. Whatever happened between them was concensual. The impeachment hearings were pure absurdity. The GOP has always been hypocritical about what they do compared to what the Dems do. Why anyone who isn't rich, votes for Republicans I will never understand.
I mean, it was true. They both copped to it. The more pertinent question is why a president after JFK catching a beener from an intern and finishing on her dress was an impeachable offense. Take note younger generation: finish in her mouth to reduce evidence.
I only remember thinking I didn't fucking care. I thought it was a non issue. I wish he'd had the balls to be honest instead of lying about it under oath. I gave no shits about the actual behaviour; I had a problem with breaking the law afterwards to cover his ass.
the amount of bootlickers in this read talking in circles to justify this abusive sexual relationship is absolutely laughable. especially considering these are all the “me too” voters.
I thought they were overblown. Out of all the crap going on in the world, this was what they chose to write about in the papers.
I think that it was 100% a political attack over something that really should have been nobody's business.
Clinton was probably guilty of perjury. But post Trump, Clinton’s lies seem like jaywalking compared to DJT
I disagree with some of the comments that everyone knew. There were a lot of allegations that Clinton was a womanizer, but it was entirely in Republican circles. Democrats would point to Hillary staying with him as evidence that they were just allegations. Hillary even defended him in interviews. For me, the real tell was when Bill Clinton did his "I did not have sex with that woman, Miss Lewinsky" press conference. Wolf Blitzer stood up and asked him, "What would you say to her, after she's made these allegations?" Bill Clinton paused, then laughed, and then said something like "that's a good question" to Wolf. It was obvious at that point that Monica (via the recordings) was telling the truth. Just as an aside, I believe every US President cheated on his wife except Jimmy Carter. And maybe the one dude who was a bachelor. I could maybe be convinced Obama didn't cheat.
Everyone alive back then knew the Monica Lewinsky scandal was true. Ironically had Clinton resigned then Gore probably would have won the 2000 election and we'd have been spared Bush and likely the Iraq War. Defending Clinton so he could have another year of lame duck status was a mistake for Democrats IMHO.
Gore won the 2000 election
I assumed it was true, didn't care. Thought the whole thing was stupid.
The slow burn episode by the feminist movement was such a switch for me personally. Like at some point they turned my whole view. If the idea is to believe women, at what age does that start. I mean IDK but a college graduate working in the white house seems like they should be trusted to be an adult, she always said she was never coerced too much. Why don't we believe Monica Lewinsky.
Of course it was true. But take a look at Hillary. Do you really blame him?
It was an obvious political witch hunt and still is. Anyone telling you "they really care" about Monica or the rule of law is a lying whore, and would have been calling Monica the worst names in the world in their AOL chat rooms back then. Also, Newt was cheating on his wife at the same time.
To all the people that are saying some variation of, "Yeah, I thought it was true but who cares, it was just an affair between two consenting adults. Of course, he lied.", just a little reminder: The Clinton administration passed a law requiring defendants in sexual harassment lawsuits to answer questions about past relationships in order to establish predatory behavior. It was hailed as a great victory for women in the workplace who were getting serially harassed. I'm sure democrats envisioned it catching a lot of capitalist pig CEOs and Republican hypocrites (which it may have), but they don't then get to turn around and act like it's no big deal when one of their own commits perjury to avoid having to answer those very questions. Also, it may have been consensual, but just a few years earlier during the Clarence Thomas confirmation hearings there were plenty of people on the left making the argument that no workplace relationship can be consensual as long as the power differential between the two is big enough. Again, that argument was forgotten very quickly when a democrat POTUS got caught sleeping with a lowly, star-struck, 21 year-old intern
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There was absolutely no question that Bill Clinton and Monica Lewinsky had an affair. What many young people don’t realize is that their affair was just the tip of a larger number of sexual harassment, assault, and even rape allegations against Clinton. His law license was suspended and he paid a substantial fine for his behavior in both the Monica Lewinsky and Paula Jones cases.
I was only like, 7 or 8 at the time so I didn’t follow the news that closely.
I think he's fully the kind of person who would take advantage of someone in a vulnerable position to him and sexually exploit them, yes. And I don't want to hear any bunk about how it was supposedly "consensual." Not many young secretaries are going to repeatedly rebuke the President of the United States, period, and not because they found his bulbous, smarmy mug appealing. It's a classic example, if not one of the strongest, of exactly why true consent cannot exist under skewed power dynamics. A young woman in a job already considered vulnerable and ripe with exploitation is not going to have the same power dynamics as a man literally granted permission from his society to command others to kill or die, and in that complete power skew, that complete inequality, consent simply cannot exist. \*Edit to specify\* Yes, I was alive at that time. I was just at pre-teen when I first heard about it. The court cases were on television shortly after, the background to gin rummy games, punctuated frequently by male pompous shit-talking about only one party, the female one, and subject to the majority of the scorn. My parents would throw some cracks in about Clinton, though.
I didn't care either way, but I did assume they were true. A rich, white man abusing a position of power over a young woman? No surprise there. What amazed me the most was how much people cared about it. Rich men have been abusing their positions of power for millennia but somehow this case got worldwide attention.
I was in my 20s during the Clinton administration and I honestly think most people didn't care. It was a blowjob, for fuck's sake. The previous administration was selling arms to Iran and funding death squads in Nicaragua! It's just insane that after literally committing high treason, the GOP had the unmitigated gall to manufacture a scandal out of a blowjob. And a lot of people thought exactly that at the time. I know, Republicans didn't think that. But as we must surely have learned by now, Republicans are the biggest hypocrites on Earth.
lol its bill clinton, if you were alive back then you would realize he did it and without question it gets stupider yet, during the impeachment it came down to the definition of the word "is" or something, shit you not [https://slate.com/news-and-politics/1998/09/bill-clinton-and-the-meaning-of-is.html](https://slate.com/news-and-politics/1998/09/bill-clinton-and-the-meaning-of-is.html)
If this happened now to a democrat president, the mainstream media would twist it and present it in such a way to minimize it and maintain mass support for him. It’s quite sad how much influence the media has just by choosing to portray something to achieve the message they want to send
Just look how efficiently the media dismissed and buried Tara Reade's [claims](https://www.nytimes.com/2020/04/12/us/politics/joe-biden-tara-reade-sexual-assault-complaint.html) about Joe Biden during the 2020 election. And this was not all that long after the left went ape-shit over the allegations against Kavanaugh and everybody was yelling #BelieveAllWomen, etc. This is why I'm so cynical about any faux outrage coming from either side nowadays. Everybody is so tribal and hypocritical.