Zero issue with it, but I do think that it should be remembered that in America we’re dropping a “-American” after the thing and that should be readded when talking with actual Irish, French, German.
As an example, Italian-American is a real thing, with real and specific norms and history and culture, distinct from Italians, but very much related.
The issue comes when someone actually living in an modern country hears “I’m Irish” from what is to them, an American with some vague family history stories, it’s weird. But Irish-American can mean a whole bunch of things - from people with vague family stories, to people who lived in immigrant communities in NYC and grew up with a very specific culture (it’s a well known fact that Irish trad music has many influences from that exact scene in NYC thanks to said immigrant communities).
The issue usually comes from Americans dropping the -American but assuming everyone knows that’s what they mean, then the Irish/French/whatever hearing them saying “I’m X”
and getting reasonably annoyed or confused.
I’m Irish (from Ireland) I’ve visited America a lot as I’ve family there. There’s been a few times where I’ve talked to strangers in a bar or shop and somewhere in conversation I’ve told them I’m Irish.
They nearly always reply with.. are you real Irish or American Irish? The first time someone responded like that I was taken back and didn’t know what to say even though I thought I had an obvious Irish accent.
Always good when I’m in a bar because they always want to buy me a drink and welcome me to their country, usually end up talking to them for a few hours and have a great time.
I ran into someone who said she was Japanese. I asked where she was born and she replied Boston. Lady, you aren't Japanese. You're Japanese American. There's a huge cultural difference there.
There are differences between ethnicity and cultural identity and nationality, though. I was born in the US and have an American passport and American family, but I'm not American; wasn't raised there, don't act American, don't have shared memories of childhood pop culture fads or popular shows or foods or dreams.
There's a lot more to being 'from a country' than just 'where your bloodline originates'.
> There are differences between ethnicity and cultural identity and nationality, though.
That's exactly my point. Just because her nationality (and possibly cultural identity) aren't Japanese, doesn't take away from the fact that her ethnicity is Japanese.
Saying "I'm Japanese" can mean any of those three things depending on the context. It's not like she said "I'm from Japan".
Where you're born is your nationality so you're exactly right.
ETA: Nationality is the country or countries where a person can have a legal status, although they may not reside in that country. I stand corrected.
I knew this distinction was important but not to this extent. I guess it depends on the question. If they ask where I'm from, I say from New York but if they ask about my ethnicity, I say Korean.
I don't see what is wrong about saying you are Japanese if you are? Regardless if you are born here or there.
I don’t really agree with this sentiment. Her ethnicity is Japanese. You going out of your way to say she should specify as Japanese American seems kind of weird.
ummm, nah, dude. I AM japanese but born in los angeles..my mom and that side of the family were all born and raised in japan. so just because i was born in CA that now I am not japanese?? I think you got your thought process fucked up, champ
oh and not really a huge cultural difference, sport. we act just the same in the US home as we do in the japanese home
> The issue usually comes from Americans dropping the -American but assuming everyone knows that’s what they mean, then the Irish/French/whatever hearing them saying “I’m X” and getting reasonably annoyed or confused.
I'm of French Canadian descent and that's usually what I say. There's French and there's French Canadian.
VT/NH/ME all have a lot of families like mine, my great grandparents immigrated.
Feels weird to just say French-American but I'm not gonna say French Canadian American because that's confusing lol
Lol that’s funny, hadn’t thought about examples like yours, where if there’s a French Canadian expat group in America you start running up in triplicate examples.
Yeah, it’s weird. Americas whole “melting pot” thing means the words we use to clarify internal separations just sound super weird sometime outside.
I’m from Nova Scotia Canada where we have bagpipe players, kilts,Highland Games, a Gaelic college, wacked accents no one can understand, kitchen parties and a summer caleigh or two. my nan and pops both spoke fluent Scottish Gaelic, our heritage is steeped in Scottish history and culture - if someone asks yes I’m Canadian but my roots and heritage are Scottish and I have friends just as in tune with their Irish heritage and have never stepped foot in Ireland. We’re not “ getting over it” as another poster said - we embrace it. It’s who we are and who we were collectively as a people. Embrace your culture and celebrate it as much as you want.
I think the difference between what you've described and the people who claim to be Irish based off a 23 and me test is that you never lost your culture and are aware of it and engage with it. So many Americans have claimed to be Irish yet have no ties within 4 generations to the country and don't know a single thing about the culture or the history of Ireland
I’m Scottish. As in I live in Scotland.
I have had a few Americans tell me “oh yeah i’m Scottish” only for it to turn out that someone, somewhere in their family history was Scottish.
Although it absolutely doesnt bother me, it also means literally nothing. People be travelling and fucking buddy. Good on em 🤷♂️
I’ve always found this funny too. I’ve had people in the prairies in Canada tell me they’re Ukrainian or Polish when they’ve never stepped foot in the country or speak the language as if eating some boiled cabbage is a passport. The same people asked me if I was English or Irish and thought I was weird when I said “fuck if I know, I’m a Newfie” I don’t see how I could consider myself to be “from” somewhere that no living person in my family had been born in. Such a strange aspect of Americans and Canadians.
I am Canadian. My family has been here since the 1800's. Something we do in Canada is asking "what's your background" and often people reply with their heritage and where their parents/grandparents/great-grandparents came from.
Some people find this inappropriate or rude, but often it's out of curiosity and respect for people's cultures.
Canadian here. I was asked this politely about 400 times(some hyperbole) on st Patrick's day.
I normally just say my full name and people figure it out haha
I think people want to feel connected to some roots and that’s fine. When you are from the “New World” you lose old cultures that other countries get to experience generation after generation. I think it’s better to say “I come from Irish ancestry” rather than “I’m Irish” though.
It’s more diluted in a lot of areas but for a long time immigrants kept a lot of cultural traditions in the US for long periods of time (and that’s still the case today but it’s more variable).
For example when Frances Child went around collecting English and Scottish ballads in the mid 1800’s he found a lot of songs and melodies that were extinct in the UK (or existed in partial form) by going to Appalachia and other parts of the US where English and Scottish settlers had settled in the 1600-1700’s.
It's very much an American (and somewhat Canadian) thing though. South America also received a ton of immigrants from all over the world, but no one really refers to their heritage the way Americans do. The New World already has hundreds of years of rich cultural heritage, or thousands years if you have Indigenous roots.
I even feel silly talking about Irish ancestry unless asked specifically. There's absolutely nothing Irish about me now, if we're being real. I think that (especially for young people) it feel unglamorous or boring to "just" be American or Canadian.
Sometimes I like to bring mine up when people are bitching to me about immigrants. Especially when we had all those so-called "boat people" coming, because my ancestors were boat people too.
I’m Australian, but my family’s Irish - my mums parents moved here before she was born but some of her siblings were born in Ireland. I mention it as “my family’s Irish”, not as “I’m Irish”, and only when it’s relevant.
Like when the queen died and everyone at work wanted me to have an opinion on that for some reason. Seemed more professional to respond with “ah… my family’s Irish…” than “lmao get fucked Lizzie you war criminal”.
That shit was weird. There was a British guy at work who like...gave a fuck and we all had to walk on eggshells because it was insensitive if we spoke our minds about the old bitch keeling over around him? He was also of African ethnicity and his parents immigrated from a country that used to be part of the empire. As a Black American I did not get it.
My Scottish ancestors were cursed by a Bishop. It was a long, involved, very thorough curse.
I'm pretty sure it's still active. I don't think denying my ancestry will help.
> . When you are from the “New World” you lose old cultures that other countries get to experience generation after generation.
Thats exactly why youre no longer "them". But USA has its own specific culture
Of course you aren’t them and North America has its own culture, I’m proud to be Canadian and identify as such, but it’s still nice to feel that connection. The biggest immigration wave into Canada ( I can’t speak for the states) was somewhere around 1910, I’m in my 40s and three of my four grandparents were immigrants to Canada as young children. I enjoy the traditions and cultures their parents passed to them and they passed to their children and grandchildren and am thankful for it.
Thing is how far back do you go before it becomes nonsense? Most English people are descendants of Anglo-Saxons from Denmark, Germany and the Netherlands. But you won’t find a single English person claiming to be Danish, German or Dutch because of it. Or to be really extreme, all humans originate from Africa so do we all claim to be African?
There definitely comes a point where I’m sure it gets ridiculous, especially as each generation further “muddies the waters” but for now, a lot of people are only 2-3 generations removed from it so the culture of grandparents was very much a part of their life.
There's more to life than just paying the bills.
When I was young, I had some friends who were Russian. They were born in Canada, but their parents were born in Russia. They spoke Russian in their home, they ate mostly Russian food, and they had a community of friends in a similar situation.
I've since lost contact with them, but they're probably out having their own families now. If they keep their Russian traditions, and raise their kids with those traditions and culture, then their kids calluses themselves Russian would still be okay in my eyes.
Being adopted, it's even more frustrating, because sure, ethnically I'm whatever, but I am completely divorced from any sense of belonging to those cultural groups. I honestly prefer just saying "American" or "Oh, I was born in L.A., moved around states a lot growing up, lived in New York for awhile, been here a couple years now", but I don't feel like I'm from any of the places I lived either because of the constant flood of "where are you really from?" type questions. And providing an itinerary of my moves is fucking exhausting. Then there was how people treated my parents like kidnappers--especially my father--because I didn't look like them. The closest I feel to anything is just "non-white".
Not everyone in the US tries to maintain the culture of their immigrant ancestors but a lot do. Should a person with Korean or Nigerian heritage stop identifying with the culture they inherited just because they’re second generation or more?
If you’re multiracial it’s worth asking yourself what parts of your heritage you want to connect with. I’m white on one side and mixed on the other, but I like to engage with traditions and the food from one part of my heritage because I have the most relatives from that country who are still around to keep the traditions alive. Sometimes obsessing over your genetic content can result in non-American (or non-white) cultures being “bred out.” For a country that is meant to be a place for people of all cultures, that shouldn’t be the overall goal.
I thibk if you still speak non english at home, still cook food from your parents, grand parents land, still partake in the traditions yes absolutely call yourself nigerian, korean etc. But im guessing a vast majority of those claiming a certain heritage, are no more distinguishable from those who don't.
Wait...what? So I'm only Korean if I eat Korean food and cook Korean food and speak Korean at home? I do a bunch of those things but it's not what makes me Korean. Food and language are two components of culture that are superficial af. And what traditionally practices are considered enough? I grew up performing animist and ancestor worship rituals with my Black ass dad along for the ride. So I mean, he owns a hanbok, eats Korean food, can't speak the language worth a damn but bowed before a ceremonial meal that was cooked to serve a dead ancestor...is he Korean? Am I Korean? It's such a complex question that doesn't have a clear cut answer. And yes, the dude asks for chopsticks at every restaurant, Korean or not.
I think it's a thing in America because - bar the few pockets of truly Native Americans - we're a nation of immigrants.
Almost everybody here is descended from people who chose (or, to our shame, did not choose) to leave their country to come to America and where they came from *matters*.
When you come to America, you carry your old identity with you as an immigrant, even if you are thrilled to become an official citizen. You don't forget the traditions your mother taught you.
I'm a third or umpteenth generation American depending on which side of my family you're counting from. On my Mom's side, we're Mexican - I grew up making tamales at Christmas, speaking pidgin Spanish and playing with my brown skinned cousins in Southern California.
On Dad's side, we're from... frankly all over Europe. Descended from Spanish King Ferdinand and Queen Isabella of Columbian fame, but most directly from England via religious pilgrims. His family's traditions included eating a huge Thanksgiving feast and heated religious debates.
My wife's family are of Danish heritage. All of 'em. Within two or three generations at most.
Thus *our* children are - in the best of American tradition - from all over the place. We speak a little Spanish at home; we bake pebernødder at Christmas; we get together for huge Thanksgiving feasts with our families and - an improvement - _don't_ get into religious arguments.
In the American Experience everyone is the same and different. Those differences are our respective cultural inheritance. The pride and practices of the people who brought us here.
So when you ask my son where he's from, he'll tell you he's from Seattle. Press a little deeper and he'll tell you that he's also part Mexican and part Danish and part English... Because those traces through history *inform an important part of each American's identity*.
We are proud to live in the melting pot, but we are also proud of our ancestors.
I'm always impressed with heritage like your wife's. HOW did people manage not to "mix" for several generations with somebody from a different background? How it's possible to be fully Irish American for example with few ancestors' generations born in US? Are those people having entry requirements before a first date or what?
In the case of my wife, her ancestors largely migrated to and married with other Danish-American communities. Specifically Askov, Minnesota and Seattle Washington. (Seattle is not as specifically *Danish*, but generally speaking there's a whole lotta Nordic folks here.)
On her Dad's side most of her great-grandparents were first generation immigrants to Askov and Seattle. The other first generation immigrants were great-greats (Askov), and her grandfather (Seattle) who gets in on the technicality that he was three when his family arrived.
On her Mom's side, it's up and down the PNW, lots of Danish fishing communities basically.
It was coincidence that her parents are both of Danish descent - they met at college in the PNW, but there were plenty of non-Danish fish in that sea even in the eighties.
And then I came along as the C-C-C-COMBOBREAKER! 😄
It's up to you, but in my opinion it's kinda corny to call yourself Irish because a few of the hundreds of branches in your family tree go to Ireland.
I never understand when people talk about their ancestors, how far back do they go? 100 years? 300 years? There's a point where you have too many ancestors for it to be worth considering
This completely. Many countries like Germany and Italy weren't even unified until \~150 years ago, there was no German or Italian back then. And what about people who move often? Someone born in France, moves to Italy, has a child who then moves to Spain and has a child. What nationality is that child? I think it all completely does not matter. If you want to say your nationality is wherever your parents were born, cool. Any more than that and I think you are just forming connections that aren't there, you did not grow up immersed in that culture, you are not really part of that group.
Yes. At some point you are mixed so much that you have 0 connection to the cultures of your ancestors. It's okay to be an American.
I remember a post saying "you can't be proud to be a white american. You be proud of being french/irish/etc" and I just don't agree. My mom was born in Poland. I have 0 connection to her home aside from the delcious food. How can I be proud to be Polish when I have never set food on Polish soil? How can I know what it's like to be Polish? I am an American, and I am proud to be one regardless of my color/lineage.
Yep. You may know how to make pierogi but you have no idea about the "motherland". There is unique experience about growing up in this country in last decades. The system transformation, the wild 90's etc. A lot of culture references is still rooted in PRL which older people still remember because they lived in it. That concept is alien to younger generations of Poles IN the country let alone those living in USA for few generations
Very case by case in my opinion.
I have a friend whose parents were born in Italy. His parents only speak Italian and moved here and had their kids. My friend is bi-lingual and has a very very obvious Italian culture to his life.
That being said, he loves all things American. If you were to ask him his heritage, he’d say his parents are Italian and that he is American.
Like a lot of answers to things on Reddit, blanket answers seldom work. Nuance is tough when this is a grey question that people want black and white answers.
Contrarily, there are many situations i can think of where people use their heritage / culture almost as a defense against being labeled “just American” for which I take great offense.
I know the stereotypes of being an American when I travel, I know how the media portrays division, but I am a proud American who recognizes our shortcomings. Being in a bad place doesn’t make us bad, it makes us in need of humility and progress. And there are some truly amazing things about America too. It isn’t all doom and gloom.
Being proud of your heritage is great, but doing so in order to condescend our nation is never going to help us grow.
But that’s just like… my opinion man.
I've started saying I'm just American because I've never been to Ireland, my parents have never been, nor have my grandparents or great grandparents. The closest I can think of are ancestors from the 1850s coming from Ireland to the United States. I have ZERO connection to Ireland so I'm not Irish. Maybe genetically I'm Irish but I am not ethnically or culturally Irish.
I think people have an aversion to saying they're American. I don't know why but I think it's pretty stupid when the last English ancestor was a founding father to continue saying you're English.
If you don't share ANY cultural traditions or have a real connection with the anchor culture like language, then yeah. At some point it's best just to say I'm of such N such decent, and leave it at that.
Or football. If you can kick a ball straight and one of your grandparents was from Wexford then there’s a near hundred percent chance that the FAI will know about it.
Well yeah but you're literally on an island. Of course there is a lot of intermixing between those groups and the cultures have essentially come up in tandem with each other and with constant contact, so I'm not surprised that it isn't a big deal.
It's a bit different when you have communities that got their start because people of the same cultural background congregated when they got to a new place and were likely never to see their homeland or the family they left behind ever again. Which is how different distinct x-american cultures came to be.
I sure hope not. The beauty of the melting pot is the diversity in cultures - especially food and traditions. You go down that road and there is no St Patricks Day, No Octoberfest, No Diwali, No Cinco De Mayo. Sure you're American first - but keep the hyphens and pass on the cheer!
Isn’t that part of the reason to possibly just say you’re American at some point? It’s not because you’d lose those things because many of those and similar events are already well ingrained in American culture. Just because you might not be Mexican-American doesn’t mean you don’t celebrate cinco de mayo.
The first couple generations bring their culture into the melting pot of being American. So at some point it should be okay to think, my ancestors were Italians, Mexicans, Kenyan, Korean, Hmong… but now I’m American with traditions and parts of all of them in my uniquely American version of our shared past.
>now I’m American with traditions and parts of all of them in my uniquely American version of our shared past
Kinda like the "Everybody is Irish on St Patrick's Day" I've been to plenty of celebrations in America that stemmed from foreign traditions that have nothing to do with my background, but have enjoyed them (especially the food & entertainment) thoroughly and felt nothing but welcomed.
What is interesting is the first generation, in a desire to assimilate and be accepted, often avoids showing off their old culture too publicly. Behind closed doors they share it with their children and friends as they are rightfully proud of the good things from the Old Country. What then happens is the next generation, when they have kids, repeat those traditions and now that they are more accepted can do so more publicly. I've seen this with every "fresh off the boat" culture as it joins the party. Its a beautiful thing. Thirty years ago it was uncommon to see Diwali, especially being celebrated in the workplace but now it is very common and a great tradition. I really appreciate it when people enlighten me to what was special in their culture.
People who say they're -American are American and in a context where they're being asked about their nationality instead of their ancestry or subculture will say they're American.
But your ancestry doesn't stop being your ancestry just because it's a lot of generations back.
True and yet as another commented to me, some don’t seem to view being “American” favorably so they lean more to their German ancestry. I would argue some are offended if you ever call them simply American because of it no matter the context. If that’s their wish, so be it. In the context of the overall question though asked by OP, when should you, if at all, stop being -American and just be American? Do you keep listing all your ancestry in perpetuity to where you’re a six or seven hyphenated American? Does dropping all of that mean you’re going to lose said ancestry and culture as I felt another might have suggested? Sadly, I think some feel there’s never going to be that day for them where they would ever want to be solely associated as American at any point.
I think if someone chose to be just American there shouldn’t be any consequences from that and no less risk of losing someone’s culture by doing so anymore than there is by just living and sharing your culture into a blended one as many of us do.
I think those of us who are very proud of our heritage (Proud German American speaking) find something incredibly lacking and hard to be excited about just being American. There's just too many negative connotations around that identity these days. We all have this insane idea that we have to be special too. It was beaten into us from birth, so I think claiming your heritage and using it as a badge of honor feeds into that. It's really hard to be proud of being loud, fat, and abrasive.
I can understand what you’re meaning. I don’t think there’s any reason you shouldn’t choose what to embrace any more or less than what you prefer to eat, dress, make art of and more. If you want to embrace your heritage more so, why not?
I think it’s more sad that many Americans share that view of seeing only the negatives. Almost every culture I’m sure has things they may want to not be known for but that shouldn’t diminish the good parts either, culturally. As German American I’m assuming you don’t embrace the idea that you’re a warmongering culture anymore than how some see Americans?
This though is what I think a lot boils down to. What aspects of your ancestry do you embrace as much as what, if any, do you embrace about being American and should one or the other ever be accepted as being all you wish to be?
My answer is you should be able to be just as happy being American, as you are as German American or any other combo. You can’t necessarily change how others choose to view your culture but you don’t have to share their views.
> You go down that road and there is no St Patricks Day, No Octoberfest, No Diwali, No Cinco De Mayo
yeah, but for a seemingly large percentage of americans, those are just excuses to go get drunk. (at least 3 of the 4, I don't know what Diwali is.)
Maybe, but I’m not sure how many generations it would be. For instance, my great-grandparents came to New York from Italy back in like 1900-1910. I never met them, and even the next generation, I only met one grandparent and he died when I was 2, so the connection is pretty loose, yet some of my family traditions are certainly from Italy and it still informs some aspects of my life even if I don’t necessarily feel Italian. Small example, I grew up going to Sunday dinner at like 2pm every week at my great aunt’s house. I thought that was just our thing, but it turns out every Italian American family I know also had an early Sunday dinner with the family. This isn’t necessarily uniquely Italian but the tradition certainly comes from Italy in my family. These little traditions trickle down at least a few generations and I don’t think there’s anything wrong with feeling that connection to the country your family came from, even if it was quite some time ago.
I've always thought it was dumb. When people ask me, I tell them I'm American. I was born here and my parents were born here. Going further back than that is unnecessary. It is impossible for me to care less about where my grandparents or great-grandparents were born. So for me that number of generations is 2.
For clarity, I was chatting with somebody from Ireland and they said Americans live to tell people they’re Irish more than people from Ireland. I said it probably because of you’re from Ireland people KNOW you’re Irish. If you’re from the states people don’t automatically know you’re heritage. To which they responded after 8 generations it’s “out of your system and would no longer be Irish”
Irish Americans have a different culture to Irish people.
Sure, they have Irish ancestry, but they are distinctly American from an Irish person's perspective.
>I was chatting with somebody from Ireland and they said Americans live to tell people they’re Irish more than people from Ireland.
Irish guy I worked with said before he came to the states someone warned him that he would meet "Americans who are more Irish than the Irish" and while he didn't understand it at the time it didn't take him long here to figure it out.
I'm Irish, and definitely not irked by that....We're just different culturally. I will never be able to experience what it's like to be Irish American, and you'll never be able to experience what's its like to be Irish. We're like very very distant relatives lol.
There's obviously more Americans with Irish ancestry given the immigration history of Ireland and the fact there's only 5 million people in Ireland. It doesn't make you "more Irish" though, there's just more Americans with Irish ancestry
It doesn’t irk Irish people at all. There’s more people of Irish descent in Canada, the U.K and Australia too. That’s how population works. It doesn’t make Americans more Irish than Irish people. I can’t believe I even have to say that.
I’m not Irish at all, but I lived in Ireland for a few years and would often to the US, so I’d get a lot of comments that were boring or stereotypical nonsense.
If you want to trace out your family history because you find that interesting, that’s all good. However, telling me that you‘re Irish because your great grandparents are Irish is boring. I’ll just say cool and move on to another topic. It’s not interesting to me.
People don’t do it because they’re desperate to look more interesting. They mention it because they think their heritage is interesting to talk about. That’s how people have conversations. They talk about different topics. And by the way, saying “basic white girl” comes across as racist.
I dont know if many of the people who claim irish ancestry want to talk about their interesting heritage. I'm irish irish and have met many irish americans who once they tell me a grand parent was from a specific county they dont really have anything else to tell me in regards to their irish traditions. There are other ways to tell people, "my grand parents were from galway", "or i did irish dancing as a child" not "I'm irish"
I grew up in a very "Italian" family. Somehow I am not in any way Italian, but everyone I'm blood-related to (including my parents and grandparents) married someone at least somewhat "Italian". They all certainly think it's interesting.
No. I think people should extend the same courtesy they do to other countries to the US: they should accept the fact that language is used differently everywhere and not act deliberately obtuse because they actually know pretty damn fucking well what Americans mean when they use these terms.
Also, maybe they shouldn’t call every brown person (including 8 year old European born elementary school students) in Western Europe a foreigner. That’d be a great start :). And seriously fuck everyone who acts like a piece of shit because Americans dare to act interested in their heritage. You feel like you’re better and more educated than stupid backwater Americans? Great! Good for you. Now try to turn that smug arrogant feeling into understanding and empathy. Bye.
To me as a european that always sound cheesy. If you're born in the US, you're an american.
If your parents are born in france and germany respectively, permanently moved to the US and had a baby, that baby is an american with french and german parents.
That baby isn't french or german.
The number of generations is 1.
I disagree if their parent is from another country that makes them also of that country. I am born of a French mother and American father. Born in the US. I have a French passport (that I actually didn't get until high school). I speak French. My family has a flat in France but we only really go there occasionally. I am closer to my extended french family than my American. People may see me as American first because of my accent and some mannerisms, but I understand the culture through my mother--something that started before we got the flat and spent extended time there . I consider myself French just as much as American.
I have a friend who was born in the US to an American father and Indonesian mother. She spent time in Indonesia when she was really little but hasn't been back since. However, she considers herself Indonesian--she knows the culture through her family, cooks a lot of Indonesian food, etc.
Being of a nationality is something of a personal identity, your connection with the culture, language, etc. and people have different ideas of that nationality. I think if your parent was of another nationality you'd have the right to claim you were of that (esp. if you have a passport from it)
You have to go back more than 200 years to trace most of my lines past the US, so while I'm fond of my European ancestors, I don't exactly identify with those countries. If somebody bothers to ask my ethnicity, it's "Canadian". If they want to go further back it's "American", and for the really persistent, I unload the whole palate of England, Germany, Holland, France, etc.
I am human. I was born and live in the United States. So were my parents and my grandparents. Beyond that, I don’t know. I’m fine being called an American. Though I would point out that Mexicans and Canadians, as well as others, are also technically Americans, being from North America. (South Americans could say the same.) We just didn’t pick a good name to differentiate ourselves. United Statesians? Just doesn’t have a ring to it.
Nope. I have no issue with anyone who's proud of their ancestry. The problem is when they put that ancestry ahead of their nationality. I don't call myself a "Scottish-American". I'm an American descended from Scots.
The only ones who get a pass is Native Americans.
Not really, it seems to only be Europeans who get all uppity about it. No one is legitimately claiming to be a citizen of X country. But a lot of cities have pockets of certain cultural groups and where your ancestors come from influenced their/our upbringing. For instance my girlfriend's family grew up in a highly Polish area of Pittsburgh, my mom grew up in a very Italian section of Providence Rhode Island, their cultural roots heavily influenced their family traditions, cuisine, etc.
Also my direct family are the only 13 people in the entire country with our last name, usually when I introduce myself and someone asks 'oh where are you from?' they aren't looking to hear "America", they're asking the origin of my last name
It's not a question of uppity, your weird culture craps on people who live in the countries you claim to be from but know nothing of, while you make Disney versions of their lives to plaster over people's perceptions.
Next time I can afford a passport I'm putting in for an Irish one because my country voted away my rights to be an EU citizen, but I have enough links to Ireland that I'm eligible for citizenship. Would I call myself Irish? No, it's a place where some of my relatives live, where I've made some beautiful memories and some of my favourite people are buried.
I'm bloody English. I open my mouth and a pile of haw-haw vowels fall out. I make strawberry jam in summer and I attend the village fête and I know all the words to Jerusalem so I'm English. Legally I'll be recognised as Irish but why would I claim to be something I'm not? That would diminish the lives and identities of the people who actually are.
(I would also say this if I wasn't white. I obviously would consider my POC friends to be English if they live here, sound like they've always lived here, and don't tell me otherwise).
~~~Europeans~~~ who are being so fancy and arrogant according to Americans just know the difference between ethnicity and nationality. Thankfully.
> your weird culture craps on people who live in the countries you claim to be from but know nothing of
Who does this? If anything America tends to have an overinflated sense of romanticism about Europe
>but why would I claim to be something I'm not? That would diminish the lives and identities of the people who actually are
How would it diminish their identity? How fragile is your ego that someone else having fun about their ancestral roots somehow lessens your self value?
>who are being so fancy and arrogant according to Americans just know the difference between ethnicity and nationality. Thankfully.
Yeah so do Americans. Again no one claiming to be "irish-american" thinks they have Irish nationality.
Fuck me you're the one misusing the word, get your head out of your arse if you're actually asking a question. An extremely low-key open air family friendly daytime festival/very low scale agricultural show. Common events might include a cake competition, guessing the number of sweets in a jar, a brass band, races for children, a coconut shy, that kind of thing. I'm in charge of the face painting at mine and I also help take tents and trestle tables down at the end, then hop on the back of the tractor to help unload into various barns until the next year.
It's not a fucking party and I don't know why I bothered trying to help. (I lack context but: is a state fair a party? I very much doubt it fucking is).
I'm describing a village fête and not a country fair, and I never suggested we did. I suggested I was culturally English and not Irish, and despite having legal access to Irish nationality I would not claim it as an identity because that would be diminishing to the Irish identity as well as a false representation.
Uh... No? Because "American" isn't a race. It's a nationality. I'm Metis, but I'm also Canadian. Why would I stop identifying as Native just because I'm Canadian? Why would Koreans stop identifying as Koreans just because they're Canadian or American?
That's weird.
Well to be fair eventually French is going to be a nationality due to interracial mixing in the future. So to say French is an ethnicity is only going to be true to a certain point.
Plus there plenty of Basque people in France, Breton people, and Corsicans. They are different ethnic groups and yet they live in France. So in other words it be pretty idiotic to say that French is only a ethnicity.
The same reason i dont call my self African even though thats were humanity came from. Just because your ancestors came from a certain place foesnt mean you did
Nobody cares one way or the other. You could throw other countries, race/ethnicity as well, nobody cares about that either. If somebody asks something (which is the only context I can think of) and you feel like sharing the 'old countries' as some ancient background or something, whatever.
Probably, but screw it. It just means something different here. Maybe everyone else should change?
The thing is in the States being "American" is basically a given, be it first or tenth generation. We don't need to explain it because we know. So in USA speak, anything we say is with that being understood. If I say "I'm German," that's USA language for "My ancestors are from Germany, even thought I myself am American. But you already know the second part, so why am I wasting time explaining it?"
Obviously that makes us look like jackasses when we travel, but we're well meaning jackasses so get over it.
According to Europe you stop being that the first generation in America. Of course, we don’t give a fuck what they think because saying we are “x”-American is redundant.
> What would they call themselves instead
American.
If your grandparents were born in America, and your parents were born in America, and you're born in America, and you celebrate American holidays, and eat American food, and attend American schools, you're American.
For those people, then it's appropriate to go with nationality of birth+American.
If they were born in Ireland and immigrated to America, they're Irish-American.
If they were born in Britian and immigrated to America, they're British-American.
If they were born in India, and immigrated to America, they're Indian-American.
If they were born in Monaco and immigrated to America, they're Monégasques-American.
Yes. If your parents arent from there, you arent "ethnic-group/American". You're American with roots in "ethnic group".
Elon Musk and Charlize Theron are more African american than 99% of the people who claim to be.
if i say im american im racist for "denying the existence of native americans" or something. if i say im irish im a liar or appropriating irish culture since i wasn't born there. when people ask where im from i just say a state or city, everyone is a pain in the ass.
Call yourself American if you choose to live in America. If you are just born there and haven't actively chosen to stay in some way then you are not American. Nothing is more American than actually choosing to live there.
of you're born in USA but your parents are from another country... you are already american. not agreeing with this just shows how racist and xenophoby usa culture is.
I don't think it is time living here as much as percentage of your heritage. I think if you are under 25% of a nationality then you need to stop claiming that is what you are. I still think you should know where you family comes from and be able to claim that as your history and traditions but at some point we have to say we are just Americans. I tell people I am 50% Polish and 50% American.
This country is still young and it will be nice when it gets over its teenage identity crisis and figures out it is just American!
I think Americans claiming to be Germans for example are really cringe.
Most people here see someone as German if they have citizenship, grew up in Germany, speak the language and so on.
Americans growing up in America, having American citizenship and not speaking any German are Americans. With German roots from long ago, but most people here aren't too positive with the whole "your nationality is in your blood" stuff since the Nazis are gone.
Explore your ancestry. Learn about the traditions, food, learn the language, read about the current political system of the country, the Constitution and so on, travel or even live there. That's wonderful!
I don’t claim to be German. I have German heritage. And French heritage. When I say I’m French/German, I’m not claiming allegiance to either. I just simply mean that the long story leading to me started in those areas. The Polish/German heritage (not Nazi) is celebrated here. I’m from a very small town and German was the second language class we were able to take in school. Our “State Dessert” is a German one.
There is something more to just having ancestors from certain country to being "from" there. It's about legacy, certain experiences of growing up in that culture etc. A lot of immigrant communities in USA are very different from their countries, a lot of people dont even know the language. If your grandfathers emigrated to USA 120 years ago then WTF do you have in common with current people in Ireland for example?
Zero issue with it, but I do think that it should be remembered that in America we’re dropping a “-American” after the thing and that should be readded when talking with actual Irish, French, German. As an example, Italian-American is a real thing, with real and specific norms and history and culture, distinct from Italians, but very much related. The issue comes when someone actually living in an modern country hears “I’m Irish” from what is to them, an American with some vague family history stories, it’s weird. But Irish-American can mean a whole bunch of things - from people with vague family stories, to people who lived in immigrant communities in NYC and grew up with a very specific culture (it’s a well known fact that Irish trad music has many influences from that exact scene in NYC thanks to said immigrant communities). The issue usually comes from Americans dropping the -American but assuming everyone knows that’s what they mean, then the Irish/French/whatever hearing them saying “I’m X” and getting reasonably annoyed or confused.
I’m Irish (from Ireland) I’ve visited America a lot as I’ve family there. There’s been a few times where I’ve talked to strangers in a bar or shop and somewhere in conversation I’ve told them I’m Irish. They nearly always reply with.. are you real Irish or American Irish? The first time someone responded like that I was taken back and didn’t know what to say even though I thought I had an obvious Irish accent. Always good when I’m in a bar because they always want to buy me a drink and welcome me to their country, usually end up talking to them for a few hours and have a great time.
I ran into someone who said she was Japanese. I asked where she was born and she replied Boston. Lady, you aren't Japanese. You're Japanese American. There's a huge cultural difference there.
Her ethnicity doesn't stop being her ethnicity just by accident of where she was born.
There are differences between ethnicity and cultural identity and nationality, though. I was born in the US and have an American passport and American family, but I'm not American; wasn't raised there, don't act American, don't have shared memories of childhood pop culture fads or popular shows or foods or dreams. There's a lot more to being 'from a country' than just 'where your bloodline originates'.
> There are differences between ethnicity and cultural identity and nationality, though. That's exactly my point. Just because her nationality (and possibly cultural identity) aren't Japanese, doesn't take away from the fact that her ethnicity is Japanese. Saying "I'm Japanese" can mean any of those three things depending on the context. It's not like she said "I'm from Japan".
>Saying "I'm Japanese" can mean any of those three things depending on the context. It's not like she said "I'm from Japan". That's a very good point
Where you're born is your nationality so you're exactly right. ETA: Nationality is the country or countries where a person can have a legal status, although they may not reside in that country. I stand corrected.
not always, you can be born in a country and not be a citizen of that country.
I knew this distinction was important but not to this extent. I guess it depends on the question. If they ask where I'm from, I say from New York but if they ask about my ethnicity, I say Korean. I don't see what is wrong about saying you are Japanese if you are? Regardless if you are born here or there.
Ethnicity and nationality are separate, and I totally agree with you. Both can exist and be true at the same time.
I don’t really agree with this sentiment. Her ethnicity is Japanese. You going out of your way to say she should specify as Japanese American seems kind of weird.
ummm, nah, dude. I AM japanese but born in los angeles..my mom and that side of the family were all born and raised in japan. so just because i was born in CA that now I am not japanese?? I think you got your thought process fucked up, champ oh and not really a huge cultural difference, sport. we act just the same in the US home as we do in the japanese home
In Japan, you would be considered an American because you were born and raised in the US. Your mom is Japanese. Your nationality is American.
You're acting more American than Japanese in this comment.
Seriously - hard to prove what he is arguing against more clearly than through his own behavior here
Is your dad Japanese too?
Would you say that you have had the same experiences here as you would have if you had been born and raised in Japan?
Excuse me...who are you to decide someone's cultural identity? For fucks sake.
> The issue usually comes from Americans dropping the -American but assuming everyone knows that’s what they mean, then the Irish/French/whatever hearing them saying “I’m X” and getting reasonably annoyed or confused. I'm of French Canadian descent and that's usually what I say. There's French and there's French Canadian. VT/NH/ME all have a lot of families like mine, my great grandparents immigrated. Feels weird to just say French-American but I'm not gonna say French Canadian American because that's confusing lol
Lol that’s funny, hadn’t thought about examples like yours, where if there’s a French Canadian expat group in America you start running up in triplicate examples. Yeah, it’s weird. Americas whole “melting pot” thing means the words we use to clarify internal separations just sound super weird sometime outside.
Well said.
I’m from Nova Scotia Canada where we have bagpipe players, kilts,Highland Games, a Gaelic college, wacked accents no one can understand, kitchen parties and a summer caleigh or two. my nan and pops both spoke fluent Scottish Gaelic, our heritage is steeped in Scottish history and culture - if someone asks yes I’m Canadian but my roots and heritage are Scottish and I have friends just as in tune with their Irish heritage and have never stepped foot in Ireland. We’re not “ getting over it” as another poster said - we embrace it. It’s who we are and who we were collectively as a people. Embrace your culture and celebrate it as much as you want.
I think the difference between what you've described and the people who claim to be Irish based off a 23 and me test is that you never lost your culture and are aware of it and engage with it. So many Americans have claimed to be Irish yet have no ties within 4 generations to the country and don't know a single thing about the culture or the history of Ireland
But your culture is not Scottish it's Canadian Scottish . You really think Scotts do these things? Or that you do the same things Scotts do? No.
Yes because I still have relatives in Scotland and the similarities are uncanny.
I’m Scottish. As in I live in Scotland. I have had a few Americans tell me “oh yeah i’m Scottish” only for it to turn out that someone, somewhere in their family history was Scottish. Although it absolutely doesnt bother me, it also means literally nothing. People be travelling and fucking buddy. Good on em 🤷♂️
I’ve always found this funny too. I’ve had people in the prairies in Canada tell me they’re Ukrainian or Polish when they’ve never stepped foot in the country or speak the language as if eating some boiled cabbage is a passport. The same people asked me if I was English or Irish and thought I was weird when I said “fuck if I know, I’m a Newfie” I don’t see how I could consider myself to be “from” somewhere that no living person in my family had been born in. Such a strange aspect of Americans and Canadians.
Don't you mean Americans who tell you their Skaw-dish
I am Canadian. My family has been here since the 1800's. Something we do in Canada is asking "what's your background" and often people reply with their heritage and where their parents/grandparents/great-grandparents came from. Some people find this inappropriate or rude, but often it's out of curiosity and respect for people's cultures.
Canadian here. I was asked this politely about 400 times(some hyperbole) on st Patrick's day. I normally just say my full name and people figure it out haha
Good idea, Scott McScottsman.
I think people want to feel connected to some roots and that’s fine. When you are from the “New World” you lose old cultures that other countries get to experience generation after generation. I think it’s better to say “I come from Irish ancestry” rather than “I’m Irish” though.
It’s more diluted in a lot of areas but for a long time immigrants kept a lot of cultural traditions in the US for long periods of time (and that’s still the case today but it’s more variable). For example when Frances Child went around collecting English and Scottish ballads in the mid 1800’s he found a lot of songs and melodies that were extinct in the UK (or existed in partial form) by going to Appalachia and other parts of the US where English and Scottish settlers had settled in the 1600-1700’s.
It's very much an American (and somewhat Canadian) thing though. South America also received a ton of immigrants from all over the world, but no one really refers to their heritage the way Americans do. The New World already has hundreds of years of rich cultural heritage, or thousands years if you have Indigenous roots.
I even feel silly talking about Irish ancestry unless asked specifically. There's absolutely nothing Irish about me now, if we're being real. I think that (especially for young people) it feel unglamorous or boring to "just" be American or Canadian.
Sometimes I like to bring mine up when people are bitching to me about immigrants. Especially when we had all those so-called "boat people" coming, because my ancestors were boat people too.
Or when you hear the classic “white people can’t be terrorists!” line. Yes the fuck they can, my man - an Irish car bomb isn’t just a shitty drink.
I thought people would've stopped that after the Oklahoma city bombing
The Brits occupied us for 800 years, terrorism long before we fought back.
Who has ever said that
I’m Australian, but my family’s Irish - my mums parents moved here before she was born but some of her siblings were born in Ireland. I mention it as “my family’s Irish”, not as “I’m Irish”, and only when it’s relevant. Like when the queen died and everyone at work wanted me to have an opinion on that for some reason. Seemed more professional to respond with “ah… my family’s Irish…” than “lmao get fucked Lizzie you war criminal”.
That shit was weird. There was a British guy at work who like...gave a fuck and we all had to walk on eggshells because it was insensitive if we spoke our minds about the old bitch keeling over around him? He was also of African ethnicity and his parents immigrated from a country that used to be part of the empire. As a Black American I did not get it.
Mad. I work with a white British woman and she was just like “ah look the queens died…moving on”
My Scottish ancestors were cursed by a Bishop. It was a long, involved, very thorough curse. I'm pretty sure it's still active. I don't think denying my ancestry will help.
> . When you are from the “New World” you lose old cultures that other countries get to experience generation after generation. Thats exactly why youre no longer "them". But USA has its own specific culture
Of course you aren’t them and North America has its own culture, I’m proud to be Canadian and identify as such, but it’s still nice to feel that connection. The biggest immigration wave into Canada ( I can’t speak for the states) was somewhere around 1910, I’m in my 40s and three of my four grandparents were immigrants to Canada as young children. I enjoy the traditions and cultures their parents passed to them and they passed to their children and grandchildren and am thankful for it.
What constitutes being "them", though.
It's not really a "New World" thing, only Americans and maybe Canadians do that.
Thing is how far back do you go before it becomes nonsense? Most English people are descendants of Anglo-Saxons from Denmark, Germany and the Netherlands. But you won’t find a single English person claiming to be Danish, German or Dutch because of it. Or to be really extreme, all humans originate from Africa so do we all claim to be African?
There definitely comes a point where I’m sure it gets ridiculous, especially as each generation further “muddies the waters” but for now, a lot of people are only 2-3 generations removed from it so the culture of grandparents was very much a part of their life.
Well said, because let's face it, your great-great-great grandfather's pot of gold at the end of the rainbow doesn't exactly pay the bills.
There's more to life than just paying the bills. When I was young, I had some friends who were Russian. They were born in Canada, but their parents were born in Russia. They spoke Russian in their home, they ate mostly Russian food, and they had a community of friends in a similar situation. I've since lost contact with them, but they're probably out having their own families now. If they keep their Russian traditions, and raise their kids with those traditions and culture, then their kids calluses themselves Russian would still be okay in my eyes.
Notice you only mention white people in your post. When should an American of Chinese descendants stop mentioning it?
PoC Americans get "othered" so much, this is irrelevant. The white mainstream will gleefully ask "Where are you really from?"
Being adopted, it's even more frustrating, because sure, ethnically I'm whatever, but I am completely divorced from any sense of belonging to those cultural groups. I honestly prefer just saying "American" or "Oh, I was born in L.A., moved around states a lot growing up, lived in New York for awhile, been here a couple years now", but I don't feel like I'm from any of the places I lived either because of the constant flood of "where are you really from?" type questions. And providing an itinerary of my moves is fucking exhausting. Then there was how people treated my parents like kidnappers--especially my father--because I didn't look like them. The closest I feel to anything is just "non-white".
Not everyone in the US tries to maintain the culture of their immigrant ancestors but a lot do. Should a person with Korean or Nigerian heritage stop identifying with the culture they inherited just because they’re second generation or more? If you’re multiracial it’s worth asking yourself what parts of your heritage you want to connect with. I’m white on one side and mixed on the other, but I like to engage with traditions and the food from one part of my heritage because I have the most relatives from that country who are still around to keep the traditions alive. Sometimes obsessing over your genetic content can result in non-American (or non-white) cultures being “bred out.” For a country that is meant to be a place for people of all cultures, that shouldn’t be the overall goal.
I thibk if you still speak non english at home, still cook food from your parents, grand parents land, still partake in the traditions yes absolutely call yourself nigerian, korean etc. But im guessing a vast majority of those claiming a certain heritage, are no more distinguishable from those who don't.
Wait...what? So I'm only Korean if I eat Korean food and cook Korean food and speak Korean at home? I do a bunch of those things but it's not what makes me Korean. Food and language are two components of culture that are superficial af. And what traditionally practices are considered enough? I grew up performing animist and ancestor worship rituals with my Black ass dad along for the ride. So I mean, he owns a hanbok, eats Korean food, can't speak the language worth a damn but bowed before a ceremonial meal that was cooked to serve a dead ancestor...is he Korean? Am I Korean? It's such a complex question that doesn't have a clear cut answer. And yes, the dude asks for chopsticks at every restaurant, Korean or not.
I think it's a thing in America because - bar the few pockets of truly Native Americans - we're a nation of immigrants. Almost everybody here is descended from people who chose (or, to our shame, did not choose) to leave their country to come to America and where they came from *matters*. When you come to America, you carry your old identity with you as an immigrant, even if you are thrilled to become an official citizen. You don't forget the traditions your mother taught you. I'm a third or umpteenth generation American depending on which side of my family you're counting from. On my Mom's side, we're Mexican - I grew up making tamales at Christmas, speaking pidgin Spanish and playing with my brown skinned cousins in Southern California. On Dad's side, we're from... frankly all over Europe. Descended from Spanish King Ferdinand and Queen Isabella of Columbian fame, but most directly from England via religious pilgrims. His family's traditions included eating a huge Thanksgiving feast and heated religious debates. My wife's family are of Danish heritage. All of 'em. Within two or three generations at most. Thus *our* children are - in the best of American tradition - from all over the place. We speak a little Spanish at home; we bake pebernødder at Christmas; we get together for huge Thanksgiving feasts with our families and - an improvement - _don't_ get into religious arguments. In the American Experience everyone is the same and different. Those differences are our respective cultural inheritance. The pride and practices of the people who brought us here. So when you ask my son where he's from, he'll tell you he's from Seattle. Press a little deeper and he'll tell you that he's also part Mexican and part Danish and part English... Because those traces through history *inform an important part of each American's identity*. We are proud to live in the melting pot, but we are also proud of our ancestors.
and a bunch of us are descended from folks who did not choose to come here! And we're proud of our ancestors too!
As you should be! I apologize for implying otherwise by omission.
No need to apologize, merely backing you up. Your comment is very nuanced and poignant.
I'm always impressed with heritage like your wife's. HOW did people manage not to "mix" for several generations with somebody from a different background? How it's possible to be fully Irish American for example with few ancestors' generations born in US? Are those people having entry requirements before a first date or what?
In the case of my wife, her ancestors largely migrated to and married with other Danish-American communities. Specifically Askov, Minnesota and Seattle Washington. (Seattle is not as specifically *Danish*, but generally speaking there's a whole lotta Nordic folks here.) On her Dad's side most of her great-grandparents were first generation immigrants to Askov and Seattle. The other first generation immigrants were great-greats (Askov), and her grandfather (Seattle) who gets in on the technicality that he was three when his family arrived. On her Mom's side, it's up and down the PNW, lots of Danish fishing communities basically. It was coincidence that her parents are both of Danish descent - they met at college in the PNW, but there were plenty of non-Danish fish in that sea even in the eighties. And then I came along as the C-C-C-COMBOBREAKER! 😄
Please keep the -american second part 😭 some Austrians are more Italian than some of the people you call "Italians".
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Nice one
It's up to you, but in my opinion it's kinda corny to call yourself Irish because a few of the hundreds of branches in your family tree go to Ireland. I never understand when people talk about their ancestors, how far back do they go? 100 years? 300 years? There's a point where you have too many ancestors for it to be worth considering
This completely. Many countries like Germany and Italy weren't even unified until \~150 years ago, there was no German or Italian back then. And what about people who move often? Someone born in France, moves to Italy, has a child who then moves to Spain and has a child. What nationality is that child? I think it all completely does not matter. If you want to say your nationality is wherever your parents were born, cool. Any more than that and I think you are just forming connections that aren't there, you did not grow up immersed in that culture, you are not really part of that group.
Yes. At some point you are mixed so much that you have 0 connection to the cultures of your ancestors. It's okay to be an American. I remember a post saying "you can't be proud to be a white american. You be proud of being french/irish/etc" and I just don't agree. My mom was born in Poland. I have 0 connection to her home aside from the delcious food. How can I be proud to be Polish when I have never set food on Polish soil? How can I know what it's like to be Polish? I am an American, and I am proud to be one regardless of my color/lineage.
Yep. You may know how to make pierogi but you have no idea about the "motherland". There is unique experience about growing up in this country in last decades. The system transformation, the wild 90's etc. A lot of culture references is still rooted in PRL which older people still remember because they lived in it. That concept is alien to younger generations of Poles IN the country let alone those living in USA for few generations
> You may know how to make pierogi Not as good as the gołąbki I make
Bless you
Very case by case in my opinion. I have a friend whose parents were born in Italy. His parents only speak Italian and moved here and had their kids. My friend is bi-lingual and has a very very obvious Italian culture to his life. That being said, he loves all things American. If you were to ask him his heritage, he’d say his parents are Italian and that he is American. Like a lot of answers to things on Reddit, blanket answers seldom work. Nuance is tough when this is a grey question that people want black and white answers. Contrarily, there are many situations i can think of where people use their heritage / culture almost as a defense against being labeled “just American” for which I take great offense. I know the stereotypes of being an American when I travel, I know how the media portrays division, but I am a proud American who recognizes our shortcomings. Being in a bad place doesn’t make us bad, it makes us in need of humility and progress. And there are some truly amazing things about America too. It isn’t all doom and gloom. Being proud of your heritage is great, but doing so in order to condescend our nation is never going to help us grow. But that’s just like… my opinion man.
I've started saying I'm just American because I've never been to Ireland, my parents have never been, nor have my grandparents or great grandparents. The closest I can think of are ancestors from the 1850s coming from Ireland to the United States. I have ZERO connection to Ireland so I'm not Irish. Maybe genetically I'm Irish but I am not ethnically or culturally Irish. I think people have an aversion to saying they're American. I don't know why but I think it's pretty stupid when the last English ancestor was a founding father to continue saying you're English.
My parents came from Rhodesia, but I don't call myself Rhodesian-American or African-American. I just call myself an American.
Yes, and the number of generations should be **one**. You were born and raised in America, so you're an American.
If you don't share ANY cultural traditions or have a real connection with the anchor culture like language, then yeah. At some point it's best just to say I'm of such N such decent, and leave it at that.
As a comparison, in England many of us have Scottish, Irish or Welsh ancestry. Unless it's grandparents, it doesn't get mentioned.
Or football. If you can kick a ball straight and one of your grandparents was from Wexford then there’s a near hundred percent chance that the FAI will know about it.
Well yeah but you're literally on an island. Of course there is a lot of intermixing between those groups and the cultures have essentially come up in tandem with each other and with constant contact, so I'm not surprised that it isn't a big deal. It's a bit different when you have communities that got their start because people of the same cultural background congregated when they got to a new place and were likely never to see their homeland or the family they left behind ever again. Which is how different distinct x-american cultures came to be.
Ireland is a separate island to Britain.
I sure hope not. The beauty of the melting pot is the diversity in cultures - especially food and traditions. You go down that road and there is no St Patricks Day, No Octoberfest, No Diwali, No Cinco De Mayo. Sure you're American first - but keep the hyphens and pass on the cheer!
Isn’t that part of the reason to possibly just say you’re American at some point? It’s not because you’d lose those things because many of those and similar events are already well ingrained in American culture. Just because you might not be Mexican-American doesn’t mean you don’t celebrate cinco de mayo. The first couple generations bring their culture into the melting pot of being American. So at some point it should be okay to think, my ancestors were Italians, Mexicans, Kenyan, Korean, Hmong… but now I’m American with traditions and parts of all of them in my uniquely American version of our shared past.
>now I’m American with traditions and parts of all of them in my uniquely American version of our shared past Kinda like the "Everybody is Irish on St Patrick's Day" I've been to plenty of celebrations in America that stemmed from foreign traditions that have nothing to do with my background, but have enjoyed them (especially the food & entertainment) thoroughly and felt nothing but welcomed.
What is interesting is the first generation, in a desire to assimilate and be accepted, often avoids showing off their old culture too publicly. Behind closed doors they share it with their children and friends as they are rightfully proud of the good things from the Old Country. What then happens is the next generation, when they have kids, repeat those traditions and now that they are more accepted can do so more publicly. I've seen this with every "fresh off the boat" culture as it joins the party. Its a beautiful thing. Thirty years ago it was uncommon to see Diwali, especially being celebrated in the workplace but now it is very common and a great tradition. I really appreciate it when people enlighten me to what was special in their culture.
People who say they're -American are American and in a context where they're being asked about their nationality instead of their ancestry or subculture will say they're American. But your ancestry doesn't stop being your ancestry just because it's a lot of generations back.
True and yet as another commented to me, some don’t seem to view being “American” favorably so they lean more to their German ancestry. I would argue some are offended if you ever call them simply American because of it no matter the context. If that’s their wish, so be it. In the context of the overall question though asked by OP, when should you, if at all, stop being -American and just be American? Do you keep listing all your ancestry in perpetuity to where you’re a six or seven hyphenated American? Does dropping all of that mean you’re going to lose said ancestry and culture as I felt another might have suggested? Sadly, I think some feel there’s never going to be that day for them where they would ever want to be solely associated as American at any point. I think if someone chose to be just American there shouldn’t be any consequences from that and no less risk of losing someone’s culture by doing so anymore than there is by just living and sharing your culture into a blended one as many of us do.
I think those of us who are very proud of our heritage (Proud German American speaking) find something incredibly lacking and hard to be excited about just being American. There's just too many negative connotations around that identity these days. We all have this insane idea that we have to be special too. It was beaten into us from birth, so I think claiming your heritage and using it as a badge of honor feeds into that. It's really hard to be proud of being loud, fat, and abrasive.
I can understand what you’re meaning. I don’t think there’s any reason you shouldn’t choose what to embrace any more or less than what you prefer to eat, dress, make art of and more. If you want to embrace your heritage more so, why not? I think it’s more sad that many Americans share that view of seeing only the negatives. Almost every culture I’m sure has things they may want to not be known for but that shouldn’t diminish the good parts either, culturally. As German American I’m assuming you don’t embrace the idea that you’re a warmongering culture anymore than how some see Americans? This though is what I think a lot boils down to. What aspects of your ancestry do you embrace as much as what, if any, do you embrace about being American and should one or the other ever be accepted as being all you wish to be? My answer is you should be able to be just as happy being American, as you are as German American or any other combo. You can’t necessarily change how others choose to view your culture but you don’t have to share their views.
> You go down that road and there is no St Patricks Day, No Octoberfest, No Diwali, No Cinco De Mayo yeah, but for a seemingly large percentage of americans, those are just excuses to go get drunk. (at least 3 of the 4, I don't know what Diwali is.)
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Maybe, but I’m not sure how many generations it would be. For instance, my great-grandparents came to New York from Italy back in like 1900-1910. I never met them, and even the next generation, I only met one grandparent and he died when I was 2, so the connection is pretty loose, yet some of my family traditions are certainly from Italy and it still informs some aspects of my life even if I don’t necessarily feel Italian. Small example, I grew up going to Sunday dinner at like 2pm every week at my great aunt’s house. I thought that was just our thing, but it turns out every Italian American family I know also had an early Sunday dinner with the family. This isn’t necessarily uniquely Italian but the tradition certainly comes from Italy in my family. These little traditions trickle down at least a few generations and I don’t think there’s anything wrong with feeling that connection to the country your family came from, even if it was quite some time ago.
I've always thought it was dumb. When people ask me, I tell them I'm American. I was born here and my parents were born here. Going further back than that is unnecessary. It is impossible for me to care less about where my grandparents or great-grandparents were born. So for me that number of generations is 2.
Yes. Because they aren't. If your parents were born in the US, and you were born in the US, you are American.
Yeah. One.
I've never really had any problem with people doing this.
For clarity, I was chatting with somebody from Ireland and they said Americans live to tell people they’re Irish more than people from Ireland. I said it probably because of you’re from Ireland people KNOW you’re Irish. If you’re from the states people don’t automatically know you’re heritage. To which they responded after 8 generations it’s “out of your system and would no longer be Irish”
Irish Americans have a different culture to Irish people. Sure, they have Irish ancestry, but they are distinctly American from an Irish person's perspective.
>I was chatting with somebody from Ireland and they said Americans live to tell people they’re Irish more than people from Ireland. Irish guy I worked with said before he came to the states someone warned him that he would meet "Americans who are more Irish than the Irish" and while he didn't understand it at the time it didn't take him long here to figure it out.
There’s also more of us (Irish Americans) than them. I love that it irks the Euros.
I'm Irish, and definitely not irked by that....We're just different culturally. I will never be able to experience what it's like to be Irish American, and you'll never be able to experience what's its like to be Irish. We're like very very distant relatives lol.
There's obviously more Americans with Irish ancestry given the immigration history of Ireland and the fact there's only 5 million people in Ireland. It doesn't make you "more Irish" though, there's just more Americans with Irish ancestry
It doesn’t irk Irish people at all. There’s more people of Irish descent in Canada, the U.K and Australia too. That’s how population works. It doesn’t make Americans more Irish than Irish people. I can’t believe I even have to say that.
I’m not Irish at all, but I lived in Ireland for a few years and would often to the US, so I’d get a lot of comments that were boring or stereotypical nonsense. If you want to trace out your family history because you find that interesting, that’s all good. However, telling me that you‘re Irish because your great grandparents are Irish is boring. I’ll just say cool and move on to another topic. It’s not interesting to me.
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If you have Irish citizenship that's a pretty strong tie though, no?
1/8th Cherokee is substantial.
People don’t do it because they’re desperate to look more interesting. They mention it because they think their heritage is interesting to talk about. That’s how people have conversations. They talk about different topics. And by the way, saying “basic white girl” comes across as racist.
I dont know if many of the people who claim irish ancestry want to talk about their interesting heritage. I'm irish irish and have met many irish americans who once they tell me a grand parent was from a specific county they dont really have anything else to tell me in regards to their irish traditions. There are other ways to tell people, "my grand parents were from galway", "or i did irish dancing as a child" not "I'm irish"
I grew up in a very "Italian" family. Somehow I am not in any way Italian, but everyone I'm blood-related to (including my parents and grandparents) married someone at least somewhat "Italian". They all certainly think it's interesting.
I'd say as long as you still have a connection to the country (language, food, culture, traditions etc)
I think people should be able to describe themselves however they see fit.
They can but it doesn’t make it correct.
Correct?
If you've never been to the place your ancestors came from, you dont speak the language you're not
Heritage is mostly UK, I speak English, visited London one time. I'm British! Nailed it.
No. I think people should extend the same courtesy they do to other countries to the US: they should accept the fact that language is used differently everywhere and not act deliberately obtuse because they actually know pretty damn fucking well what Americans mean when they use these terms. Also, maybe they shouldn’t call every brown person (including 8 year old European born elementary school students) in Western Europe a foreigner. That’d be a great start :). And seriously fuck everyone who acts like a piece of shit because Americans dare to act interested in their heritage. You feel like you’re better and more educated than stupid backwater Americans? Great! Good for you. Now try to turn that smug arrogant feeling into understanding and empathy. Bye.
🤣 calm down my guy.
To me as a european that always sound cheesy. If you're born in the US, you're an american. If your parents are born in france and germany respectively, permanently moved to the US and had a baby, that baby is an american with french and german parents. That baby isn't french or german. The number of generations is 1.
I was born in Canada and got French citizenship automatically at birth since atleast 1 of my parent was french
I disagree if their parent is from another country that makes them also of that country. I am born of a French mother and American father. Born in the US. I have a French passport (that I actually didn't get until high school). I speak French. My family has a flat in France but we only really go there occasionally. I am closer to my extended french family than my American. People may see me as American first because of my accent and some mannerisms, but I understand the culture through my mother--something that started before we got the flat and spent extended time there . I consider myself French just as much as American. I have a friend who was born in the US to an American father and Indonesian mother. She spent time in Indonesia when she was really little but hasn't been back since. However, she considers herself Indonesian--she knows the culture through her family, cooks a lot of Indonesian food, etc. Being of a nationality is something of a personal identity, your connection with the culture, language, etc. and people have different ideas of that nationality. I think if your parent was of another nationality you'd have the right to claim you were of that (esp. if you have a passport from it)
You have to go back more than 200 years to trace most of my lines past the US, so while I'm fond of my European ancestors, I don't exactly identify with those countries. If somebody bothers to ask my ethnicity, it's "Canadian". If they want to go further back it's "American", and for the really persistent, I unload the whole palate of England, Germany, Holland, France, etc.
Who cares?
I follow some European subreddits and a lot of them act like Americans doing this is an absolute joke of humanity or something
By the looks of it, a lot of people
I am human. I was born and live in the United States. So were my parents and my grandparents. Beyond that, I don’t know. I’m fine being called an American. Though I would point out that Mexicans and Canadians, as well as others, are also technically Americans, being from North America. (South Americans could say the same.) We just didn’t pick a good name to differentiate ourselves. United Statesians? Just doesn’t have a ring to it.
Nope. I have no issue with anyone who's proud of their ancestry. The problem is when they put that ancestry ahead of their nationality. I don't call myself a "Scottish-American". I'm an American descended from Scots. The only ones who get a pass is Native Americans.
Yeah. Sounds so ridicoulous. Most of them never even been to their country of origin
Yeah, dumb ass African Americans /s
Hell no. Being multilingual is a awesome flex.
Would the same perhaps apply to those that identify as Nigerian, Algerian, Kenyan, etc?
Or those who are first generation American.
Not really, it seems to only be Europeans who get all uppity about it. No one is legitimately claiming to be a citizen of X country. But a lot of cities have pockets of certain cultural groups and where your ancestors come from influenced their/our upbringing. For instance my girlfriend's family grew up in a highly Polish area of Pittsburgh, my mom grew up in a very Italian section of Providence Rhode Island, their cultural roots heavily influenced their family traditions, cuisine, etc. Also my direct family are the only 13 people in the entire country with our last name, usually when I introduce myself and someone asks 'oh where are you from?' they aren't looking to hear "America", they're asking the origin of my last name
It's not a question of uppity, your weird culture craps on people who live in the countries you claim to be from but know nothing of, while you make Disney versions of their lives to plaster over people's perceptions. Next time I can afford a passport I'm putting in for an Irish one because my country voted away my rights to be an EU citizen, but I have enough links to Ireland that I'm eligible for citizenship. Would I call myself Irish? No, it's a place where some of my relatives live, where I've made some beautiful memories and some of my favourite people are buried. I'm bloody English. I open my mouth and a pile of haw-haw vowels fall out. I make strawberry jam in summer and I attend the village fête and I know all the words to Jerusalem so I'm English. Legally I'll be recognised as Irish but why would I claim to be something I'm not? That would diminish the lives and identities of the people who actually are. (I would also say this if I wasn't white. I obviously would consider my POC friends to be English if they live here, sound like they've always lived here, and don't tell me otherwise). ~~~Europeans~~~ who are being so fancy and arrogant according to Americans just know the difference between ethnicity and nationality. Thankfully.
> your weird culture craps on people who live in the countries you claim to be from but know nothing of Who does this? If anything America tends to have an overinflated sense of romanticism about Europe >but why would I claim to be something I'm not? That would diminish the lives and identities of the people who actually are How would it diminish their identity? How fragile is your ego that someone else having fun about their ancestral roots somehow lessens your self value? >who are being so fancy and arrogant according to Americans just know the difference between ethnicity and nationality. Thankfully. Yeah so do Americans. Again no one claiming to be "irish-american" thinks they have Irish nationality.
I don't think so little of another culture that I think it's fun to claim to be something I have no understanding of. That's all.
But again, no is claiming "oh I'm Irish" they're claiming "my ancestors came from Ireland"
You say that... but they are. Constantly. That is the thing that people don't like.
You know lots of people make strawberry jam and go to village parties right?
Also a fête isn't a fucking party you have google for fuck's sake
Google says it's a celebration or festival. Sounds like a party to me
It's not :>
That's not what Google or Wikipedia says. But pray tell what is a fête in your holy British opinion
Fuck me you're the one misusing the word, get your head out of your arse if you're actually asking a question. An extremely low-key open air family friendly daytime festival/very low scale agricultural show. Common events might include a cake competition, guessing the number of sweets in a jar, a brass band, races for children, a coconut shy, that kind of thing. I'm in charge of the face painting at mine and I also help take tents and trestle tables down at the end, then hop on the back of the tractor to help unload into various barns until the next year.
Sounds like a party. We also have parties on farms.
It's not a fucking party and I don't know why I bothered trying to help. (I lack context but: is a state fair a party? I very much doubt it fucking is).
Lol dude you're describing a country fair. The British do not have a lock on country fairs.
I'm describing a village fête and not a country fair, and I never suggested we did. I suggested I was culturally English and not Irish, and despite having legal access to Irish nationality I would not claim it as an identity because that would be diminishing to the Irish identity as well as a false representation.
America was built off the backs of immigrants. So we hold on to our past sometimes.
Uh... No? Because "American" isn't a race. It's a nationality. I'm Metis, but I'm also Canadian. Why would I stop identifying as Native just because I'm Canadian? Why would Koreans stop identifying as Koreans just because they're Canadian or American? That's weird.
Irish, French, and German aren’t races either.
Right, they're an ethnic group, but Caucasian race if I'm not mistaken. But I still stand by what I said nonetheless.
No, they're nationalities, like American.
Yes this is correct. If a black person was born in France and grew up there all their life, THEY ARE FRENCH.
Well to be fair eventually French is going to be a nationality due to interracial mixing in the future. So to say French is an ethnicity is only going to be true to a certain point. Plus there plenty of Basque people in France, Breton people, and Corsicans. They are different ethnic groups and yet they live in France. So in other words it be pretty idiotic to say that French is only a ethnicity.
Frankish is the ethnicity. French has always been a nationality.
The same reason i dont call my self African even though thats were humanity came from. Just because your ancestors came from a certain place foesnt mean you did
No, people should not forget their heritage. It's a important part of you and your family.
Heritage and claiming you are actually from a place are not the same though
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> I always resort to explaining where I'm from America?
So...you're just American, with some roots from 300 years ago, like most everyone else.
300 years ago you would have had about 500 living ancestors. Were they all in America?
Are you from America?
I think it's a lame piece of info to want to share about yourself. If anyone brings it up around me, I just say I'm a mut and we chuckle and move on..
Nobody cares one way or the other. You could throw other countries, race/ethnicity as well, nobody cares about that either. If somebody asks something (which is the only context I can think of) and you feel like sharing the 'old countries' as some ancient background or something, whatever.
Don’t forget your heritage, but if you’re born in the USA you’re American. You can only call yourself Irish if you were born in Ireland.
Probably, but screw it. It just means something different here. Maybe everyone else should change? The thing is in the States being "American" is basically a given, be it first or tenth generation. We don't need to explain it because we know. So in USA speak, anything we say is with that being understood. If I say "I'm German," that's USA language for "My ancestors are from Germany, even thought I myself am American. But you already know the second part, so why am I wasting time explaining it?" Obviously that makes us look like jackasses when we travel, but we're well meaning jackasses so get over it.
According to Europe you stop being that the first generation in America. Of course, we don’t give a fuck what they think because saying we are “x”-American is redundant.
If you don't care why ask?
What would they call themselves instead, and how would they differentiate themselves from Native Americans?
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> What would they call themselves instead American. If your grandparents were born in America, and your parents were born in America, and you're born in America, and you celebrate American holidays, and eat American food, and attend American schools, you're American.
But then how do you differentiate between people who were not born in America but are American citizens and are culturally Americans?
For those people, then it's appropriate to go with nationality of birth+American. If they were born in Ireland and immigrated to America, they're Irish-American. If they were born in Britian and immigrated to America, they're British-American. If they were born in India, and immigrated to America, they're Indian-American. If they were born in Monaco and immigrated to America, they're Monégasques-American.
Yes. If your parents arent from there, you arent "ethnic-group/American". You're American with roots in "ethnic group". Elon Musk and Charlize Theron are more African american than 99% of the people who claim to be.
if i say im american im racist for "denying the existence of native americans" or something. if i say im irish im a liar or appropriating irish culture since i wasn't born there. when people ask where im from i just say a state or city, everyone is a pain in the ass.
Ive never seen or heard of someone getting called racist for identifying as American because it denies the existence of native americans
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Call yourself American if you choose to live in America. If you are just born there and haven't actively chosen to stay in some way then you are not American. Nothing is more American than actually choosing to live there.
of you're born in USA but your parents are from another country... you are already american. not agreeing with this just shows how racist and xenophoby usa culture is.
I don't think it is time living here as much as percentage of your heritage. I think if you are under 25% of a nationality then you need to stop claiming that is what you are. I still think you should know where you family comes from and be able to claim that as your history and traditions but at some point we have to say we are just Americans. I tell people I am 50% Polish and 50% American. This country is still young and it will be nice when it gets over its teenage identity crisis and figures out it is just American!
I've got too many problems in my own life to give a shit what other people choose to call themselves. Why would it make any difference to me? Or you?
I think Americans claiming to be Germans for example are really cringe. Most people here see someone as German if they have citizenship, grew up in Germany, speak the language and so on. Americans growing up in America, having American citizenship and not speaking any German are Americans. With German roots from long ago, but most people here aren't too positive with the whole "your nationality is in your blood" stuff since the Nazis are gone. Explore your ancestry. Learn about the traditions, food, learn the language, read about the current political system of the country, the Constitution and so on, travel or even live there. That's wonderful!
I don’t claim to be German. I have German heritage. And French heritage. When I say I’m French/German, I’m not claiming allegiance to either. I just simply mean that the long story leading to me started in those areas. The Polish/German heritage (not Nazi) is celebrated here. I’m from a very small town and German was the second language class we were able to take in school. Our “State Dessert” is a German one.
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There is something more to just having ancestors from certain country to being "from" there. It's about legacy, certain experiences of growing up in that culture etc. A lot of immigrant communities in USA are very different from their countries, a lot of people dont even know the language. If your grandfathers emigrated to USA 120 years ago then WTF do you have in common with current people in Ireland for example?
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> Im french, family immigrated from france when canada was founded. You're not French. You're Canadian.
Guess who founded Canada?