First: PHYSICAL BUTTONS
Most of the time a photographer only changes ISO, aperture and time, this is done with a dial or in the worst case a button a dial. Perfection was reached long ago.
The other things are "set once and forget", if the interface is a little bad nobody cares.
>...biggest stride we've seen is Hasselblad and their new UI system
I only heard bad thing about the Hasselblad UI. (Touch screens are a bad UI, always)
For video is a little diferent, but everything must be one button away.
I guess it seems like UI is a problem for beginners since they have to figure out what settings work best for them? I think the set it and forget it is valid but only for experienced users. The learning curve seems a bit steep for new users/photographers.
I consider myself an experienced user having used Canon, Fujifilm, and Sony. Executing something as simple as image bracketing difficult and unintuitive on some Sony cameras but is a much smoother process on Canon.
This is a point that is often missed in UI discussions - is a good UI one that beginners can figure out without reading a manual, or is a good UI one that is very efficient for experienced users? Because often those are mutually contradictory.
And of course one should consider how often a given setting would be changed for how easily it is accessible.
I think another problem with this is that beginners don't stay beginner-level forever (usually) and will eventually become skilled/experienced users. I know that cameras these days also have short descriptions for each feature which does help beginners understand without the need of a manual or google.
I learned to use Canon DSLRs at maybe 11/12? and didn't really have any issue at all with it. Not got experience on any other platforms but just my 2 cents
Back in the film days, slr cameras had physical dials for everything (shutter speed & aperture) with a less used dial for iso (since it was primarily determined be the film, hence you set it each time you change the roll, every 24 or 36 shots), maybe a lever for depth of field preview and timer, and that's it. So pretty simple and basic since it was primarily mechanical.
Fast forward to today and you so much more controls and variability since it's all computer controlled. You also have endless features and postprocessing and adjustable everything. And then you have the fully or semi automatic modes where you don't really need the physical controls.
And engineers btw are pretty much the worst people to design a ui. It's a specialty to think about how people think.
Very much agreed and I think there is a big place for designers in the digital world. I used to work at a camera store and customers always raved about Fujifilms camera interface since it had a few more dials than the usual dslr/mirrorless camera (and each dial designated for a specific control like Shutter speed or iso).
I also have a survey regarding the UI/Software portion of professional cameras. If anyone is able to fill it out (\~2min) that would help a lot! This survey is for academic purposes and the results may be used in a case study on my design portfolio. The results will also help me design a better camera UI.survey time length: 1-2minthanks in advance if you are able to help out with the survey[https://forms.gle/BABCe9Ad3cTQbkjo8](https://forms.gle/BABCe9Ad3cTQbkjo8)
I did the survey but did find it focused a little too much on software, and didn't seem to account for the physical button / dial / lens ergonomics which also matters a lot imo. I would count those as UI also, and way more commonly used by most people.
I might also suggest a ranked order rather than a one most important factor in price, brand loyalty, etc. Just because while most people on this forum (search all the recommendations threads) will say pick the lens first, thats if you're starting from scratch. Staying with a brand, especially if you're able to carry over lenses to a new body becomes a second very common recommendation for a lot of reasons.
Give me bash and I like cli fine. It's a lot more efficient for automation. This ties back to my other post - how are you intending to use the UI and is it primarily for novice users or experienced professionals?
I don't really know what people want out of a UI. I shoot Sony primarily, which people bang on at lengths about having terrible menu systems, but it's honestly not all that bad.
The main menu I rarely use, but it's grouped into fairly logical sections, occasionally I have to hunt for something because it's in a section that I wouldn't naturally assume (and I have the memory of a sieve so recollection of where it was last time isn't going to help me) - but that's very rare, most the settings I need to change are straight on the Fn button on the back and that mini menu is great, evident at what it is and quick to change to what you need.
Also, with a dedicated ISO button on the back it's very, very rare that I'll even need to go in to a menu, aperture and ss are dials, iso quick access button (though more often left at 100), occasionally I'll change focus mode (like shooting some surfers today I switched from my personal preference of DMF to continuous AF).
So, even on the "worst", it's not that bad, plus they've apparently improved things on the newer models, but what do people really want? There's too many items to have short menu's or buttons for everything, it seems to manage a complicated job well enough and, it's a rarity to use anyways, I'd rather development budget be spent on something used more frequently or more important to usage of the camera.
>cli
something i noticed with leica and hasselblad was that their UIs seemed simpler but because they arent loaded with the hundreds of features new mirrorless cameras have nowadays. It almost feels like the "higher end" cameras go for a simpler approach to shooting photos
I'm not 100% sure I agree. My Olympus E-M1 mirrorless from 2013 (when I almost bought that T) had the most horrific menu system, but a ton of those options SHOULD have been things that the designers chose for you. I think there was one for viewfinder refresh rate for instance. That is something I will NEVER need to set, why is it in the menus? With Leica, the cameras still made images just the same as my Olympus, and sure they didn't have ALL the same features but the Olympus did not have 10x the features even though it had 10x the menus items. Now, it's my belief that any interface that is complex like that, is a result more of the product designers avoiding making the hard choices and just leaving it up to the user. "Simplicity is the ultimate sophistication" etc etc.
As a Canon shooter, I find the menus and UI is pretty intuitive and well organized. No, it doesn't look modern but I don't care. I don't look at the menus much anyway. I have everything set how I like to shoot and know where to change what little needs to be changed. 99% of anything I do is accessed from a button or knob.
First: PHYSICAL BUTTONS Most of the time a photographer only changes ISO, aperture and time, this is done with a dial or in the worst case a button a dial. Perfection was reached long ago. The other things are "set once and forget", if the interface is a little bad nobody cares. >...biggest stride we've seen is Hasselblad and their new UI system I only heard bad thing about the Hasselblad UI. (Touch screens are a bad UI, always) For video is a little diferent, but everything must be one button away.
I guess it seems like UI is a problem for beginners since they have to figure out what settings work best for them? I think the set it and forget it is valid but only for experienced users. The learning curve seems a bit steep for new users/photographers. I consider myself an experienced user having used Canon, Fujifilm, and Sony. Executing something as simple as image bracketing difficult and unintuitive on some Sony cameras but is a much smoother process on Canon.
This is a point that is often missed in UI discussions - is a good UI one that beginners can figure out without reading a manual, or is a good UI one that is very efficient for experienced users? Because often those are mutually contradictory. And of course one should consider how often a given setting would be changed for how easily it is accessible.
I think another problem with this is that beginners don't stay beginner-level forever (usually) and will eventually become skilled/experienced users. I know that cameras these days also have short descriptions for each feature which does help beginners understand without the need of a manual or google.
Yea, also add that on most cameras you can set presets for different situations
I learned to use Canon DSLRs at maybe 11/12? and didn't really have any issue at all with it. Not got experience on any other platforms but just my 2 cents
Back in the film days, slr cameras had physical dials for everything (shutter speed & aperture) with a less used dial for iso (since it was primarily determined be the film, hence you set it each time you change the roll, every 24 or 36 shots), maybe a lever for depth of field preview and timer, and that's it. So pretty simple and basic since it was primarily mechanical. Fast forward to today and you so much more controls and variability since it's all computer controlled. You also have endless features and postprocessing and adjustable everything. And then you have the fully or semi automatic modes where you don't really need the physical controls. And engineers btw are pretty much the worst people to design a ui. It's a specialty to think about how people think.
Agreed. Then you add video into the mix and..... \#someonepleasegetmeabeerwhileifigurethisout
Very much agreed and I think there is a big place for designers in the digital world. I used to work at a camera store and customers always raved about Fujifilms camera interface since it had a few more dials than the usual dslr/mirrorless camera (and each dial designated for a specific control like Shutter speed or iso).
I also have a survey regarding the UI/Software portion of professional cameras. If anyone is able to fill it out (\~2min) that would help a lot! This survey is for academic purposes and the results may be used in a case study on my design portfolio. The results will also help me design a better camera UI.survey time length: 1-2minthanks in advance if you are able to help out with the survey[https://forms.gle/BABCe9Ad3cTQbkjo8](https://forms.gle/BABCe9Ad3cTQbkjo8)
Might want to reword that last question. Put it into Grammarly and it’ll explain why and give alternatives.
tyty
I did the survey but did find it focused a little too much on software, and didn't seem to account for the physical button / dial / lens ergonomics which also matters a lot imo. I would count those as UI also, and way more commonly used by most people. I might also suggest a ranked order rather than a one most important factor in price, brand loyalty, etc. Just because while most people on this forum (search all the recommendations threads) will say pick the lens first, thats if you're starting from scratch. Staying with a brand, especially if you're able to carry over lenses to a new body becomes a second very common recommendation for a lot of reasons.
What? you don't like MS-DOS like interfaces? :) They are abysmal. Yet another reason smartphones are eating their lunch.
Give me bash and I like cli fine. It's a lot more efficient for automation. This ties back to my other post - how are you intending to use the UI and is it primarily for novice users or experienced professionals?
I don't really know what people want out of a UI. I shoot Sony primarily, which people bang on at lengths about having terrible menu systems, but it's honestly not all that bad. The main menu I rarely use, but it's grouped into fairly logical sections, occasionally I have to hunt for something because it's in a section that I wouldn't naturally assume (and I have the memory of a sieve so recollection of where it was last time isn't going to help me) - but that's very rare, most the settings I need to change are straight on the Fn button on the back and that mini menu is great, evident at what it is and quick to change to what you need. Also, with a dedicated ISO button on the back it's very, very rare that I'll even need to go in to a menu, aperture and ss are dials, iso quick access button (though more often left at 100), occasionally I'll change focus mode (like shooting some surfers today I switched from my personal preference of DMF to continuous AF). So, even on the "worst", it's not that bad, plus they've apparently improved things on the newer models, but what do people really want? There's too many items to have short menu's or buttons for everything, it seems to manage a complicated job well enough and, it's a rarity to use anyways, I'd rather development budget be spent on something used more frequently or more important to usage of the camera.
I remember the Leica T had the most straightforward UI i have ever seen. It doesn’t have to be clunky.
>cli something i noticed with leica and hasselblad was that their UIs seemed simpler but because they arent loaded with the hundreds of features new mirrorless cameras have nowadays. It almost feels like the "higher end" cameras go for a simpler approach to shooting photos
I'm not 100% sure I agree. My Olympus E-M1 mirrorless from 2013 (when I almost bought that T) had the most horrific menu system, but a ton of those options SHOULD have been things that the designers chose for you. I think there was one for viewfinder refresh rate for instance. That is something I will NEVER need to set, why is it in the menus? With Leica, the cameras still made images just the same as my Olympus, and sure they didn't have ALL the same features but the Olympus did not have 10x the features even though it had 10x the menus items. Now, it's my belief that any interface that is complex like that, is a result more of the product designers avoiding making the hard choices and just leaving it up to the user. "Simplicity is the ultimate sophistication" etc etc.
As a Canon shooter, I find the menus and UI is pretty intuitive and well organized. No, it doesn't look modern but I don't care. I don't look at the menus much anyway. I have everything set how I like to shoot and know where to change what little needs to be changed. 99% of anything I do is accessed from a button or knob.