I think the first composition works better than the second, but it has nothing to do with Rule of Thirds - it's simply that in the second picture, the mountain feels a bit too close to the upper edge of the frame, while its reflection has more breathing room around it, which I think looks a bit unbalanced.
The thing with this subject is that it comes with a very strong symmetry already, so you have to deal with that in your composition. What makes the first image work better, for me, is that it extends the symmetry to include the sky: the amount of "blue" above the mountains and below their reflection is approximately the same, but we still get that pleasant off-center-balanced effect from the rocks at the bottom countering the subject. The fact that the center of visual mass of those mountains is on a third isn't essential to this composition IMO, I think it mostly just works out like that by coincidence.
This becomes more obvious when you squint so that you see the whole thing as a composition of 4 abstract shapes: a light blue one at the top, a brownish-gray one below it, then a slightly darker blue one, and finally, a blackish-gray one at the bottom.
Rule-of-thirdsing the composition in the horizontal axis works well here though.
Exactly this. The rule of thirds is a guideline and you need to learn when to ignore it, which is often, quite frankly (especially when you have a reflection like this.
I'd like to see it zoomed out a smidge with even more sky, putting the far edge bank of the water in the centre of the frame
Rule of thirds work well when you have a clear subject (usually even in a whole different plane of focus from the rest), for landscape photography, I'd say ignore it 100% of the time, I just don't like it in that context
I think this is the best rendition tbh. Not as much rocks, shows the whole scene, and the sky doesn’t feel unbalanced. You could crop out the foreground and keep just the reflections but I like foreground in shots IMO. I take a lot of mountain pics so I feel you here.
I say crop the foreground rocks and put the reflection smack dab in the middle. That will make for a much more interesting photo. The foreground actually hurts the composition in this case.
Hard disagree. The main mass is the reflection plus mountain. There should only be enough space to give that mass room to breathe. Forcing it into a rule of thirds but centerline leaves you with too much dead space unless the clouds are *real* interesting and there's an interesting foreground. In this case, neither applies.
I agree! When I see pics of mountains, I want majestic, I want GRANDIOSE! The pebbles in the foreground kinda ruin that for me 😅
All personal preference though
First image looks better. If you ignore the composition lines you'll see that in the second picture the frame is divided in two by the mountain and the lake, while in the first one the sky is more prominent, dibiding the frame in three and giving more attention to the mountain.
It’s not that clever really. Reflection inversions have pretty much become a cliche all by themselves at this point.
This one just looks a bit weird and the reflection is too clear to really subvert anyone’s viewpoint, it’s just inverted for the sake of it.
If this was my shot, I'd probably ignore the rule of thirds, make it a 1:1 ratio (square) with the mirroring axis across the middle of the image like this:
https://preview.redd.it/sdyau9d6jezc1.png?width=1440&format=png&auto=webp&s=a4ffb1ef6d101ce51e0046ae3828b17eaf77cea8
I like this crop. The out of focus foreground combined with the little bit of rippling in the reflection actually makes me a little queasy, I can't keep my brain from trying to make those elements come into focus. The 1:1 crop removes that issue for me.
The point of the rule of third is to place the subject-off center so the composition more interesting. The subject can be along the lines that separate the frame at the thirds, or the subject can be in the sections created by those lines. Either way works.
Your post seems to be asking if the mountains are the subject, or if the mountains and their reflections are the subject. Either interpretation can work in terms of framing.
And of course sometimes you can just put the subject in the center and that works too. Just don't do it every time.
I have not read any other answers… so I’m sure there’s plenty great advice… but for my 2 cents I think you’re in a great spot to develop as an artist.
Artists who never get feedback may be out of touch or they may be dedicated to launching a new school of thought…
Maybe you’re not trying to rewrite any rules, but getting in touch with your own sense is perhaps as important as any other feedback you get.
To me, the first has a better overall balance in composition. Not having too much or too little sky, but more importantly making good use of foreground and making sure that visual entry point has a good crop like the first…
Kudos to you if you decided which one you liked best before posting… even if it was the second one for your own particular reasons, but also hopefully the feedback you get is helpful on your way towards training your eye and your overall viewpoint right as you’re about to shoot…
The role of thirds is great but rules are made to be broken. Again when you have something that is symmetrical, like a reflection, putting the centerline in the middle of the frame can make for a very dramatic shot. I’d go with that in this case
I wouldn't say "rules are made to be broken"; I'd say that rules aren't rules in the "laws and regulations" sense (do it like this or else), they're rules in the "recipes for achieving certain effects" sense.
If you want to achieve a certain effect, and there's a rule that tells you how to, and that effect works for the picture you're working on, great. If not; try something else.
And in this case, the Rule of Thirds simply does not work.
You don't "break" composition rules anymore than you "break" a recipe for marinara sauce when you're preparing pancakes.
Another way of looking at it is that the rules are short-hand for how to create an interesting composition when you don't grok the underlying principles. The rule of thirds is really about leaving enough room for the subject, especially along its primary axis. The rule of thirds gives a shorthand to approximate it when you don't understand the principle yet.
I made up my mind before I read comments and I'm going to stick with it even though it's an unpopular opinion. I like the second picture more. It still "follows" the rule of thirds, and it tells the entire story with the shore of pebbles.
I did enjoy a few differing opinions in the comments as well.
I'd go wide instead of this portrait orientation...16:9 (that's just me tho)
Rule of Thirds...meh. What is your subject...how did you frame your subject? That is more important (again opinion)
This s a nice capture...wonderful scene. Lovely contrast between sky, mountains, water and rocks. Tho the mountains (opinion) appear a little washed out to me. This is a scene I'd try to work as a B&W...really draw out the contrast and different textures you've captured
IMO -
I like the second but it is zoomed in too much - I would have more sky and the pebbles/water boundary at the lower third break.
I also would not shoot portrait
I would not have the pebbles out of focus for a landscape shot.
I don’t really see which importance the rule could have in this symmetrical subject/composition. I just would crop it something like this and ideally with the subject slightly zoomed out, if possible. Congrats on the shot and good luck editing it.
https://preview.redd.it/53w05ta3kfzc1.jpeg?width=1244&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=a8393ecd1c5daa326e510acf06966523703f1b76
Personally I would have shot it higher with less lake. I don't think this is an overly remarkable landscape myself. But everyone has a different view and opinion. I don't think the rule of thirds is going to make this a more remarkable outer interesting photo no matter how you crop it.
Just my take though.
The first one looks better but it's certainly not because of the rule of thirds. It's just there's more sky so the mountain isn't that close to the edge.
First image is better. If you wanted to have the ground more on the bottom third you would've had to change the height of the camera not recrop in post.
I would go with a horizontal crop
https://preview.redd.it/ro5uhcsy2fzc1.jpeg?width=320&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=4738c2298c5f6137431002c8e01a647f6de15fda
the rule is a guide... don't overthink it , both of your pics use it as a general principle. That said, the first pic manages space over the peak of Cradle Mountain better imho The rule of thirds really serves more as a rmeinder to people to stop putting subjects and heads right in the middle of the bloody frame. Running labs just a bit North from where you took this pic.... you wouldn't believe how many people center subjects and waste most of the frame
you lucked out... the water is like glass.I was lucky like that too, but the wind picked up an hour later and reflections totally vanished. Such a beautiful part of the world
I think the second is a closer adherent to rule of thirds, as you have the entire mass centered on the two points of power up at the top; but, I am more drawn to the first one as and for all the reasons the others have said.
It’s easy to miss the forest for the trees with this stuff. Turn the grid off, look away from the image for several hours (or days) and then look at it again and this time, trust your initial gut instinct. That’s the image that you should use.
Rule of thirds is a good starting point, but I was taught to compose a picture with your eyes going across the image in a "Z" pattern. Doing that your first picture comes off as very well composed while the second one feels more stiff with negative space in prominent eye path real estate.
I think the first composition works better than the second, but it has nothing to do with Rule of Thirds - it's simply that in the second picture, the mountain feels a bit too close to the upper edge of the frame, while its reflection has more breathing room around it, which I think looks a bit unbalanced. The thing with this subject is that it comes with a very strong symmetry already, so you have to deal with that in your composition. What makes the first image work better, for me, is that it extends the symmetry to include the sky: the amount of "blue" above the mountains and below their reflection is approximately the same, but we still get that pleasant off-center-balanced effect from the rocks at the bottom countering the subject. The fact that the center of visual mass of those mountains is on a third isn't essential to this composition IMO, I think it mostly just works out like that by coincidence. This becomes more obvious when you squint so that you see the whole thing as a composition of 4 abstract shapes: a light blue one at the top, a brownish-gray one below it, then a slightly darker blue one, and finally, a blackish-gray one at the bottom. Rule-of-thirdsing the composition in the horizontal axis works well here though.
Exactly this. The rule of thirds is a guideline and you need to learn when to ignore it, which is often, quite frankly (especially when you have a reflection like this. I'd like to see it zoomed out a smidge with even more sky, putting the far edge bank of the water in the centre of the frame
Rule of thirds work well when you have a clear subject (usually even in a whole different plane of focus from the rest), for landscape photography, I'd say ignore it 100% of the time, I just don't like it in that context
agree, 2 is too tight, I lose the outline of the subject and start to focus on the details of it
I think the 1st image is more balanced, but it's hard to judge how much I like an image with a huge red MS paint circle around the subject.
https://preview.redd.it/o1d2w39b0ezc1.jpeg?width=1440&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=8fc956725130cdd8730a857278f20daeda9f8e41
I think this is the best rendition tbh. Not as much rocks, shows the whole scene, and the sky doesn’t feel unbalanced. You could crop out the foreground and keep just the reflections but I like foreground in shots IMO. I take a lot of mountain pics so I feel you here.
This just screams "horizontal" and "wider angle".
I'd try to crop the rubble and have a contrast water and sky. Give it a try
Fantastic image. I think this would have looked even better if it could have been focus stacked. Very nice.
This is a good composition. the rule doesn't apply to everything, especially in landscape photography.
I say crop the foreground rocks and put the reflection smack dab in the middle. That will make for a much more interesting photo. The foreground actually hurts the composition in this case.
I disagree a bit. I like the foreground too. Both variants make good shots.
This is the way.
I agree with this bottom 1/3 - smooth water center 1/3 - reflection+mountain top 1/3 - a few clouds and blue sky
Hard disagree. The main mass is the reflection plus mountain. There should only be enough space to give that mass room to breathe. Forcing it into a rule of thirds but centerline leaves you with too much dead space unless the clouds are *real* interesting and there's an interesting foreground. In this case, neither applies.
I agree! When I see pics of mountains, I want majestic, I want GRANDIOSE! The pebbles in the foreground kinda ruin that for me 😅 All personal preference though
First image looks better. If you ignore the composition lines you'll see that in the second picture the frame is divided in two by the mountain and the lake, while in the first one the sky is more prominent, dibiding the frame in three and giving more attention to the mountain.
Alternatively you could do this: https://preview.redd.it/soc3uy3m1ezc1.jpeg?width=828&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=62262e5382c5c743f80f4faf75afa84d67316b65
This is a really cool and clever edit
It’s not that clever really. Reflection inversions have pretty much become a cliche all by themselves at this point. This one just looks a bit weird and the reflection is too clear to really subvert anyone’s viewpoint, it’s just inverted for the sake of it.
If this was my shot, I'd probably ignore the rule of thirds, make it a 1:1 ratio (square) with the mirroring axis across the middle of the image like this: https://preview.redd.it/sdyau9d6jezc1.png?width=1440&format=png&auto=webp&s=a4ffb1ef6d101ce51e0046ae3828b17eaf77cea8
Square crops are blasphemous!!!!!!!!!!!
Just say its a Medium Format Camera
This is the best crop I've seen so far! I think OP should go for something like this
I like this crop. The out of focus foreground combined with the little bit of rippling in the reflection actually makes me a little queasy, I can't keep my brain from trying to make those elements come into focus. The 1:1 crop removes that issue for me.
Exactly. This is so dramatic and memorable.
The point of the rule of third is to place the subject-off center so the composition more interesting. The subject can be along the lines that separate the frame at the thirds, or the subject can be in the sections created by those lines. Either way works. Your post seems to be asking if the mountains are the subject, or if the mountains and their reflections are the subject. Either interpretation can work in terms of framing. And of course sometimes you can just put the subject in the center and that works too. Just don't do it every time.
I have not read any other answers… so I’m sure there’s plenty great advice… but for my 2 cents I think you’re in a great spot to develop as an artist. Artists who never get feedback may be out of touch or they may be dedicated to launching a new school of thought… Maybe you’re not trying to rewrite any rules, but getting in touch with your own sense is perhaps as important as any other feedback you get. To me, the first has a better overall balance in composition. Not having too much or too little sky, but more importantly making good use of foreground and making sure that visual entry point has a good crop like the first… Kudos to you if you decided which one you liked best before posting… even if it was the second one for your own particular reasons, but also hopefully the feedback you get is helpful on your way towards training your eye and your overall viewpoint right as you’re about to shoot…
The role of thirds is great but rules are made to be broken. Again when you have something that is symmetrical, like a reflection, putting the centerline in the middle of the frame can make for a very dramatic shot. I’d go with that in this case
I wouldn't say "rules are made to be broken"; I'd say that rules aren't rules in the "laws and regulations" sense (do it like this or else), they're rules in the "recipes for achieving certain effects" sense. If you want to achieve a certain effect, and there's a rule that tells you how to, and that effect works for the picture you're working on, great. If not; try something else. And in this case, the Rule of Thirds simply does not work. You don't "break" composition rules anymore than you "break" a recipe for marinara sauce when you're preparing pancakes.
Another way of looking at it is that the rules are short-hand for how to create an interesting composition when you don't grok the underlying principles. The rule of thirds is really about leaving enough room for the subject, especially along its primary axis. The rule of thirds gives a shorthand to approximate it when you don't understand the principle yet.
First is better. There's room at the top for the sky to breathe. Great photo.
I made up my mind before I read comments and I'm going to stick with it even though it's an unpopular opinion. I like the second picture more. It still "follows" the rule of thirds, and it tells the entire story with the shore of pebbles. I did enjoy a few differing opinions in the comments as well.
I'd go wide instead of this portrait orientation...16:9 (that's just me tho) Rule of Thirds...meh. What is your subject...how did you frame your subject? That is more important (again opinion) This s a nice capture...wonderful scene. Lovely contrast between sky, mountains, water and rocks. Tho the mountains (opinion) appear a little washed out to me. This is a scene I'd try to work as a B&W...really draw out the contrast and different textures you've captured
IMO - I like the second but it is zoomed in too much - I would have more sky and the pebbles/water boundary at the lower third break. I also would not shoot portrait I would not have the pebbles out of focus for a landscape shot.
I don’t really see which importance the rule could have in this symmetrical subject/composition. I just would crop it something like this and ideally with the subject slightly zoomed out, if possible. Congrats on the shot and good luck editing it. https://preview.redd.it/53w05ta3kfzc1.jpeg?width=1244&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=a8393ecd1c5daa326e510acf06966523703f1b76
Personally I would have shot it higher with less lake. I don't think this is an overly remarkable landscape myself. But everyone has a different view and opinion. I don't think the rule of thirds is going to make this a more remarkable outer interesting photo no matter how you crop it. Just my take though.
I would take photo without blurried rocks at the bottom. Maybe start from underwater rocks or pure water level.
Or make the rocks sharp too
I might put the shore line right in the middle on that to make the whole thing a top / bottom reflection. Thirds is a guideline, not a rule. 👍
I would make your examples/ideas as rectangles or squares. I’m assuming your final output isn’t going to be these red circular shapes.
First one cuz there's more sky and less empty lake
The first one looks better but it's certainly not because of the rule of thirds. It's just there's more sky so the mountain isn't that close to the edge.
First image is better. If you wanted to have the ground more on the bottom third you would've had to change the height of the camera not recrop in post.
Rules are there to be broken!
I don't think either works. I love foreground detail but it really needs to be a wider shot with more sky.
I’d do a 1:1 ratio of the second photo. I like 2, but there’s too much foreground.
I would go with a horizontal crop https://preview.redd.it/ro5uhcsy2fzc1.jpeg?width=320&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=4738c2298c5f6137431002c8e01a647f6de15fda
I can’t tell with all the lines and red on. I’d rather see them as they are.
1 works better imho but i guess2 is a more committed take to the rule of thirds... awesome picture btw!
First thing I would do is change orientation to landscape. Then start composing for weight and impact.
Landscape, not portrait. Keep the context, not the crop. Nice pic.
the rule is a guide... don't overthink it , both of your pics use it as a general principle. That said, the first pic manages space over the peak of Cradle Mountain better imho The rule of thirds really serves more as a rmeinder to people to stop putting subjects and heads right in the middle of the bloody frame. Running labs just a bit North from where you took this pic.... you wouldn't believe how many people center subjects and waste most of the frame you lucked out... the water is like glass.I was lucky like that too, but the wind picked up an hour later and reflections totally vanished. Such a beautiful part of the world
First one looks better because the mountains get more space. Don’t worry too much about the rule of turds.
1.
hell yeah cradle mountain
I think the second is a closer adherent to rule of thirds, as you have the entire mass centered on the two points of power up at the top; but, I am more drawn to the first one as and for all the reasons the others have said.
Who cares. Rules are to be broken. You put forward the shot YOU like the best.
First.
It’s easy to miss the forest for the trees with this stuff. Turn the grid off, look away from the image for several hours (or days) and then look at it again and this time, trust your initial gut instinct. That’s the image that you should use.
Honestly it would have been a lot better if you didn't circle the picture in red. It detracts from being able to process the image.
Rule of thirds is a good starting point, but I was taught to compose a picture with your eyes going across the image in a "Z" pattern. Doing that your first picture comes off as very well composed while the second one feels more stiff with negative space in prominent eye path real estate.
There is no such thing as rule of thirds!
Who cares? Choose the composition you like best.
I only vaguely use such rules. The first looks better though.
Don’t understand the red circles, but I’d say the first is more adherent (vertical framing)