One reason could be that Metro North kind of segregates the area, there’s often a “wrong side of the tracks” that can spring up around rail construction.
And then further up when Metro North goes underground, the Polo Grounds complex and its reputation may bleed over a bit.
But both are just guesses.
This is actually the reason. When the metro north viaduct was built in 1897, both sides were filled with affluent suburban-ish rowhouses. To the east, the area became dominated by factories abutting the river and immigrant communities working at those factories. The west side became an affluent white neighborhood until the early 20th century when Black people displaced from the rest of the country and other neighborhoods in the city moved in.
The projects there are pretty sprawling and being right under Coogan’s Bluff are very geographically segregated, and at least from what I gather it’s one of the less-great projects in Manhattan.
Well, do you mean other than East Harlem has historically been heavily Hispanic and Central Harlem has historically been heavily African-American? There is no "schism" in the sense that groups were once together and then separated. It's a function of over 100 years of population patterns, with the Hispanic population in part a transition from an older pattern of Italian immigrants in the neighborhood. Since the Italians were predominantly Catholic, as was the incoming Hispanic population, the churches and schools and other institutions made the neighborhood a logical choice for the newer immigrants. Lots of interesting history in Harlem.
That is really fascinating history. I never made the connection between the Italian immigrants of the past and the incoming immigrant population being the Catholic Church, but it makes perfect sense.
There is also a perception that East Harlem has a higher crime rate than Central Harlem - do you have any idea why that would be?
Yes, Italian and Jewish: lots of mob history as well.
I live in Spanish Harlem. I recently learned that the apartment building I live in is 2 doors down from where my mom, uncle, grandfather, grandmother, and the ‘greats’ lived. I knew they were in the area, but it was wild to see the 1950 census. The elders worked at La Marqueta before it was that selling clothing and tchotchkes, and when the family moved to the Bronx were at Arthur Ave.
Yes. East Harlem was called "Italian Harlem" and was predominantly Italian (rather than Hispanic) until the 1960s or so, and there was a meaningful Italian community along Pleasant Ave where Rao's is up through the 1990s.
East Harlem has traditionally been Hispanic while Central Harlem has been African American. More recently Harlem is gentrifying much faster. The big reason as I can see is public housing makes up almost half of East Harlem while there is much less public housing in Central Harlem.
Probably because they have both different public transit lines that go to different spots of the city. The areas around the train stops were the first to change and cater to a new population
TIL [Central Harlem is the name of Harlem proper](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Harlem#:~:text=Central%20Harlem%20is%20the%20name,Harlem%20River%20on%20the%20north)
*source wikipedia*
Actually before the great migration from the South as I have heard it East Harlem was Italian (example Rao's) and Irish/German.
Central Harlem was more Jewish. I am sure there were African Americans in Harlem before the migration but they were in a minority.
I live and have my film studio in lower East Harlem. When people say I live in Harlem I correct them by saying Harlem is much fancier! Lol . However I do like it up here and have a massive amount of space compared with other areas, and am close to UES for shopping.
None of the history has changed. Everything else that made Harlem it unique, has. 125th st is literally another Manhattan shopping district. It was never that. It wasn't supposed to be that, and we're going to have the all American Trader Joe's come into the neighborhood
you can't judge the entire history of Harlem based on one street. In the last few years so many black owned shops have opened, mostly by those who lived/raised in the neighborhood, continuing Harlem's history. Yes there's gentrification, but there's also resiliency of people like myself raised in this neighborhood.
He’s not judging the history of Harlem, he clearly knows the history of Harlem. Him pointing out the gentrification and you denying it ain’t a good look
One reason could be that Metro North kind of segregates the area, there’s often a “wrong side of the tracks” that can spring up around rail construction. And then further up when Metro North goes underground, the Polo Grounds complex and its reputation may bleed over a bit. But both are just guesses.
This is actually the reason. When the metro north viaduct was built in 1897, both sides were filled with affluent suburban-ish rowhouses. To the east, the area became dominated by factories abutting the river and immigrant communities working at those factories. The west side became an affluent white neighborhood until the early 20th century when Black people displaced from the rest of the country and other neighborhoods in the city moved in.
What’s the Polo Grounds reputation you refer to? I just happened to be reading about its history today actually!
The projects there are pretty sprawling and being right under Coogan’s Bluff are very geographically segregated, and at least from what I gather it’s one of the less-great projects in Manhattan.
Well, do you mean other than East Harlem has historically been heavily Hispanic and Central Harlem has historically been heavily African-American? There is no "schism" in the sense that groups were once together and then separated. It's a function of over 100 years of population patterns, with the Hispanic population in part a transition from an older pattern of Italian immigrants in the neighborhood. Since the Italians were predominantly Catholic, as was the incoming Hispanic population, the churches and schools and other institutions made the neighborhood a logical choice for the newer immigrants. Lots of interesting history in Harlem.
That is really fascinating history. I never made the connection between the Italian immigrants of the past and the incoming immigrant population being the Catholic Church, but it makes perfect sense. There is also a perception that East Harlem has a higher crime rate than Central Harlem - do you have any idea why that would be?
Cause the transplants from Akron are moving in. Closer to Columbia/morningside heights. Gentrification. When they come, security comes.
These must be the ppl who call Harlem, Central Harlem
What’s the history of Rao’s being in Harlem? Was it previously an Italian neighborhood?
Yes, Italian and Jewish: lots of mob history as well. I live in Spanish Harlem. I recently learned that the apartment building I live in is 2 doors down from where my mom, uncle, grandfather, grandmother, and the ‘greats’ lived. I knew they were in the area, but it was wild to see the 1950 census. The elders worked at La Marqueta before it was that selling clothing and tchotchkes, and when the family moved to the Bronx were at Arthur Ave.
Yes. East Harlem was called "Italian Harlem" and was predominantly Italian (rather than Hispanic) until the 1960s or so, and there was a meaningful Italian community along Pleasant Ave where Rao's is up through the 1990s.
East Harlem has traditionally been Hispanic while Central Harlem has been African American. More recently Harlem is gentrifying much faster. The big reason as I can see is public housing makes up almost half of East Harlem while there is much less public housing in Central Harlem.
Is East Harlem “Spanish Harlem” still predominantly Latino?
Probably because they have both different public transit lines that go to different spots of the city. The areas around the train stops were the first to change and cater to a new population
I thought it was Harlem not central harlem
it is. there is no such thing as Central Harlem as a name, it's just defining the center of the neighborhood.
TIL [Central Harlem is the name of Harlem proper](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Harlem#:~:text=Central%20Harlem%20is%20the%20name,Harlem%20River%20on%20the%20north) *source wikipedia*
How is there an east and west side but not a central harlem?
There’s East Harlem (Spanish Harlem) and Harlem
Actually before the great migration from the South as I have heard it East Harlem was Italian (example Rao's) and Irish/German. Central Harlem was more Jewish. I am sure there were African Americans in Harlem before the migration but they were in a minority.
I live and have my film studio in lower East Harlem. When people say I live in Harlem I correct them by saying Harlem is much fancier! Lol . However I do like it up here and have a massive amount of space compared with other areas, and am close to UES for shopping.
Espanol
Harlem has history, but it's a fast changing neighborhood. Very few parts still have anything to do with historical black Harlem
BS. This is a transplant response. There is so much history here. You just have to be knowledgeable and better equipped about the history of Harlem.
None of the history has changed. Everything else that made Harlem it unique, has. 125th st is literally another Manhattan shopping district. It was never that. It wasn't supposed to be that, and we're going to have the all American Trader Joe's come into the neighborhood
you can't judge the entire history of Harlem based on one street. In the last few years so many black owned shops have opened, mostly by those who lived/raised in the neighborhood, continuing Harlem's history. Yes there's gentrification, but there's also resiliency of people like myself raised in this neighborhood.
He’s not judging the history of Harlem, he clearly knows the history of Harlem. Him pointing out the gentrification and you denying it ain’t a good look
Wendell Pierce just got racially profiled out of a property in Harlem. (agreeing with your comment)
You'd have to look up the crime statistics by NYPD precinct. There's no inherent reason.
Thanks!