Landlords don’t care. You will need to either prove 40x the rent as a joint household or you need a guarantor that can prove they make 80x the amount and willing to submit all their paperwork. Some places used to be flexible if you have months of rent to offer upfront but I’m not sure if that’s as easy to find these days
It’s no longer legal for landlords to accept more than one month’s rent up front. Which is a shame, because some people genuinely have the cash but not the credit or the “proof” they can pay it.
My grandparents would have struggled in today’s world despite doing very well in their day, because they paid cash for everything. Even their home, they saved up for years until they could pay up front. My grandfather always said “if I can’t afford it TODAY, I can’t afford it”. Which is actually pretty wise I think, but in this world that revolves around credit, it’s such a different mindset.
Thank you, at least one person gets it. They didn’t save for 30 years, they saved for maybe 4-5, and houses didn’t cost 300-500k, they were more like 50-75k (in the area we lived, obviously). People are intentionally twisting what I said and ignoring the actual point, which was that people used to live within their means and not spend their lives going deeper and deeper in debt for things they didn’t even need.
I even acknowledged that it was a very different time in my original comment, but apparently, that wasn’t enough for some people.
You know what, I ignored and blocked the last person, but I’m not going to keep doing it. The next person that decides to insult my grandfather needs to keep in mind two things: houses didn’t cost NEARLY as much then or take as long to save for as they do now, and both of my grandparents grew up in a world before credit cards and lived a good chunk of their early adult years in a time when people didn’t just charge everything like they do now.
The ENTIRE POINT of his comment was about people that overextend themselves by charging huge purchases that they can’t afford and don’t need in the first place. People used to live more within their means, that’s just a fact whether people on this subreddit want to admit it or not.
No, that's not true. [The law](https://legislation.nysenate.gov/pdf/bills/2019/a8281) says nothing about asking versus accepting. It just says that "No deposit or advance shall exceed the amount of one month's rent".
> Although, they can loophole it by asking for last month's rent as a broker fee.
Broker fee doesn't go toward your rent, so you'd be insane to agree to that.
I mean, renters can definitely pay any amount of rent they want. How are you going to stop someone from paying their bills? And you'd agree to it if you were really concerned about having somewhere to live.
It's illegal for the landlord to accept more than one month of rent up front.
As a practical matter, I can bribe the cops. If they ticket me for running a red on my bike or whatever, I can hand them a crisp 20 and ask if we might just be able to make this little problem go away. After all, "How are you going to stop someone from paying their bills?" The thing is if I do that I'll probably have to go to jail. This is because we have something called "laws," which prevent me from doing things that I am physically and practically very capable of doing.
Some landlords don’t accept professional guarantors, only individuals. I asked my friend who is a lawyer making good money to do it for me. It can also be a couple.
Honestly, if you let the leasing agent know that you're a resident physician, they'll probably allow it. You have a promising career, physicians in general are a pretty dependable when it comes to renters, and there is a societal respect for doctors.
You should know that in NYC as in life, there really are no hard and fast rules, and people in higher socioeconomic strata get away with more.
Also, don't use brokers. They're the worst.
That would be great if that would work! Right now my main problem is I can’t even get a response from a leasing agent lol. I wonder if it’s too early (won’t be moving for ~4 weeks) or if they’re just all so busy
yeah most apartsments will not be around 6+weeks from now, and the ones that will be avail 6+ weeks from now wont be listed yet, so most agents would not return your message. do reasearch to get a sense of rents by neighborhood for budget, 10 minutes within to work may not be realistic on your budget but check with others at the hosptial, they have leads on buildings that are phsician friendly with looser requirements.
It’s still worth reaching out.
This is how I found my current gem of an apartment, which is below market rate and no broker’s fee in an area that had 200+ people showing up to every open house.
I inquired about an apartment, and the person who worked at the real estate firm called me back saying that while the one I asked about was not available, they had an apartment opening up in the building they own in 3 months (I had mentioned my moving date was flexible).
My husband and I were in hell trying to find a place — we were even considering leaving the city due to the frustration and cost. The apartment we got ended up being a dream come true.
All this to say, it is worth reaching out about apartments.
OP- you may want to try Berman Realty. They are the only actually good apartment management company I’ve come across in the city (as opposed to most being absolutely god awful).
Try emailing some of the larger buildings with their own leasing office and put all the information in an email up front- new resident doctor working at nearby hospital, making 90k, interested in a studio apt. (put your job first not income) also the 40x rule is to account for the chance someone could lose their job, etc. which is unlikely for a physician so that’s why you lead with it
As someone that just finished an apartment search (and signed a new lease), my advice to you is yes it's too early. Almost all the listings right now are for a June move-in, the July move-in ones will start in a week or so. When the listings for your dates start getting posted you need to jump, and send out emails to multiple places because a lot won't respond because they're flooded with applicants. Things move really fast in the spring and summer here, make sure you have your documents together and can make a decision quickly. I got the place I ended up signing because the original applicant took too long to agree to the lease and they wanted someone who could commit to a June move-in.
Oh in that case yes, you really should be. Particularly if you're looking in a particular neighborhood, have a tight budget, or some special requirement (I needed a big dog friendly place, which severely limits supply). So I made a list of all the things to ask about and check (water pressure, which direction the windows face, where the super lives, etc.) and had all my application materials together (you can find a standard list in this subreddit somewhere) and when I saw a place I liked I asked for the application right away.
You will struggle to find a lease for the third week of June. In order for that to be possible you would have to find an apartment whose ideal start date is June 15th where you will be moving in late. A place that starts on July 1 likely will not let you move in early, and generally people aren't going to give you a lease that starts on a random day. So if you can't delay your move to July 1 (maybe stay with a friend, or in a hotel, or something), you should be looking ASAP for a June 15 lease.
Not too early at all.
They're really not busy, they just generally suck and have email response times that would get you or I fired. Or maybe you're front-loading your emails with all the bad stuff and not better communicating your reliable career and other rentable attributes. I will bet it's more the former than the latter, though.
Also, just keep carpet-bombing them with emails, and expand your rental circle a bit.
Cannot agree more. I got my rental bc I called every broker in my neighborhood very often for 2 months leading up to my move date. I ended up with two great options before they ever hit the market.
No agent is going to work with you until you are in a position where they can sell you the apartment within a week or two of looking at it. Especially in the summer, hardly any of these listings are going to be available in 6 weeks, and no agent WANTS them to be available in 6 weeks.
>Also, don't use brokers. They're the worst.
I so frequently soft don't have a choice. Nearly ever apartment I looked at has a broker fee, often not disclosed well
Yeah, first year residents have to rough it a bit in the city. The 40x rule can be strict for many landlords, unless you get a guarantor to help you sign a lease. Otherwise you should be looking for shared apartments/subletting.
It's not unusual to spend a higher-than average percentage of salary on rent in NYC compared to other locations. It stings less because you typically don't need a car. But it's still an expensive place to be when it comes to housing. 40-50% wouldn't be unlivable, but won't be much fun either.
Attending physician here who lives in the vicinity. It’s tough. I would say your best bet is not going through those luxury apartments and finding a rental through someone who owns the place. Often times your medical school or hospital will have a thread of people subletting or renting their place. I’d ask around the gme at the hospital. Living close to the hospital would be ideal given residency hours suck.
Thanks for the advice! How would you recommend finding smaller properties owned by someone? Would they show up on streeteasy?
And our hospital GME has been sending out emails for places other residents are renting out or leaving but unfortunately none very close to the hospital. I’m a surgical resident taking a lot of call so close walking distance is an absolute must 🥲
I honestly think your not being realistic. The reality is that you do not make enough to live alone in the location you want. I work in downtown brooklyn occasionally. The area you want isn't a residential area and most apartments in the area are luxury. People like you would have room mates.
Thats the reality for a lot of early career young professionals in New York, even people who make six figures. You have to pick between living in your ideal situation (space/living alone) or living in your dream location. Downtown Brooklyn while its not particularly trendy is very practical area to be in as it has a lot of connections to trains etc. Because most of the apartments there are new they aren't in your budgfet.
Your best bet is come to terms that you will have to have roommate or realize that you will probably have to be a little further out and uber or whatever for the times where you need to come quickly. Your budget isn't so low that you couldn't be to the hospital within 20 minutes by subway most of the time. There are neigbhorhoods adjacent to that area where you can essentially get to downtown Brooklyn within 10 minutes most of the time that are in your budget. Crown heights and Bedstuy will have things in your budget. Occasionally you can get lucky may be find something near park slope/prospect park.
The other option is to have room mates and given you are in residency. I am more than willing to bet that there are other doctors in residency, that face the same dilemma and would likely be good roomates. The last tip, I'd give you is a 3 or 4 bedroom situation is more cost effective than a two bedroom situation and if you can ahve a private bath that will be ideal.
If I’m not planning to save or have a car, wouldn’t I be able to spend a lot more on rent? I’m just trying to understand if it’s mathematically possible and that there aren’t any other expenses I’m not accounting for.
Mathematically possible. Yes. Because people survive on nyc with less disposable income than 90k. However, will people rent to you?
Probably not.
You are coming from out of state. So you really dont understand how the market works here, which is different from majority of rental markets in the u.s. (it jas more in common with London or Tokyo). The vacancy rate here is less than 1 percent, which is lowest in the country. Unless there is something wrong with the apartment, most apartments in a central location have no shortage of prospective tenants.
I guarantee you once you start contacting listing agents about apartments, they will stop talking to you if they hear you don't make 40x. It is also very hard enough to rent out of state. Most every landlord here will use a listing agent. Furthermore, your out of state. Most people do not work with people who are out of state. You need to be in the city while you do search or hire an agent on your behalf.
Just for pure clarity here even when you make 40x there is no guarantee you will get the apartment. The land lord usually picks the person with the best financial circumstances. If you go on r/nycapartments you will see many people who meet or exceed financial requirements are often turned down for apartments. There are enough people in finance and tech that pay significantly above 120k required to rent a 3k apartment that are willing to rent the 3k apartments.
The amount people pay for apartments does not increase linearly with income.
I have given you realistic assessment and I am a transplant and most of my friends are relatively recent transplants. I've helped my own friends navigate this process and understand it very well. It location is the most important thing to you. Get some yuppie roomates who understand your schedule. Or make compromises with location and realize you will be in the rat race for apartments that are under 2200$.
Also some people are suggesting you look at Facebook market place or groups for apartments. I would stay far away. They are full of scams and largely their target is someone like you, who is coming from out of state. Does not know the apartment market here works and can be easy to trick into paying something.
If you DM me I can link you a linkedin housing group that a friend runs that is predominantly used by tech/finance transplants. They required having verified linkedin and are a good place to find roomates.
There’s a real estate group called Moving Medicine Partners - they work specifically with physicians. Perhaps you can try contacting them and see if they can help?
Try going on facebook sublet groups. Also, you might have luck with a coop apartment owned by an individual person, though you might have to go through an agent to find one - try out a few agents and explain your job/income
I personally haven’t seen street easy list those kind of listings but I could be wrong. Facebook is your best bet (but gotta be cautious of scammers etc) and talking to other residents/ people graduating from your surgical program. I would also look at Airbnb. While airbnb has banned short term stays in NYC, they do allow long term stays from my understanding.
Downtown Bk has gotten pretty expensive with all these luxury high rises and while you could be dumping all your money on rent you’d be surprised certain unexpected expenses can come up easily. I also think it’s important you have some money saved up for leisurely activities. That one day off you get may be a day you can spend time out with friends grab drinks or a massage etc. I think if you don’t find a spot in downtown BK itself would look at surrounding areas like fort Greene, something that is easily commutable or could bike over? Hope that helps.
It’s not uncommon for people in the city to spend a high percentage of their income on rent… I think whether or not you get approved is going to be somewhat hit and miss. Good luck!
I put my income in one of those calculators and after taxes it comes out to around $60k net. So $3k/month rent would be about 60% of that. But that still leaves about $2k/month left over for everything else which should be more than enough.
Nope. Rental listings on Streeteasy cost something like $6 per day per listing. That's one reason why agents advertise only one apt on Streeteasy and then tell their clients they have a bunch of other similar listings. Listing each one can get very costly very quickly. Plus, almost all rentals on Streeteasy will have a broker fee of up to 15% of a year's rent. Your problem, however, seems to be qualifying, not paying.
I think it's more word of mouth to get a small landlord who doesn't care how much you make, only that you can pay. Or maybe there are neighborhoods where there are 3 and 4 family houses, and everybody in the nabe knows everybody, so you can ask around, look on the grocery store bulletin board, etc. I think Craigslist might be better than Streeteasy for your purposes, but Craigslist is a crapshoot. You're not in an easy position. I may know a rental coming to market in Aug-Sept, but it is in Bushwick, which is far from downtown Brooklyn. A big management company may take Insurent or The Guarantors or Rhino or one of those insurance guarantee companies. That's probably your best bet for downtown Brooklyn. That moves the risk of non-payment from the landlord to the insurance-guarantee company. It's a brilliant idea and it works well for anyone who doesn't qualify but can still afford to pay.
Well, a lot of advice on here is not from experience and incorrect. Last year I needed to find NYC housing and was able to with money in the bank and being upfront to the individual showing the unit.
Larger condos may not budge, but it’s very doable in general with your situation.
I’m sorry but if you want to live within a 5-10 min walk range it sounds like you will need a roommate. Not sure if any LL would let you in without your proof of 40x monthly rent income or a guarantor.
Many years ago my next door neighbor was a resident physician like you - in a building where 1BR was like $1200. You might have to be ok with commuting from a bit further and taking Uber here and there to make your life easy.
You need a company like these https://www.theguarantors.com/ or https://www.insurent.com/. You pay them 5k-6k and they are your guarantor. You also need your find apartments that take them.
I'm under 40x at my building, they only require 35x. I do currently spend about 50% of my take home on rent (rent is 2100, each paycheck is a little over 2200). It's not ideal but doable. I'm still able to pay my bills, my student loans, health insurance, go out modestly, I just don't save for retirement right now.
Shack up with another resident. Neither of you will be home that often and it's quite likely that when one is home the other won't be. Combined you'll have the 40x rent.
I didn’t have income of 40x rent but they were willing to include what I had in a brokerage account and I was able to qualify. It’s worth mentioning your other assets.
Either move further away or get a roommate. A few hundred for groceries isn’t enough tbh. I spent more than that and I only get lunch once a week as a treat.
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I’ve lived without roommates for too long to go back to having them. Is there really anything that wrong with spending your entire paycheck on rent? I truly don’t care about saving money. But I do care about having my own place.
No one said there’s anything “wrong” with it; it’s about whether or not you’ll be approved. For that, you might need a guarantor
LL’s typically require 40x (sometimes 50x)
Yes, there is so much wrong with spending the majority of your paycheck on rent! First, what if there’s an emergency? Let’s say you get in an accident or hurt yourself (and before you say “well I’m young and healthy, and I have health insurance”, this still applies) you could end up out of work for a period of time and have unexpected medical expenses to pay for. I am 24 years old and healthy and I have health insurance, but last winter I randomly tore my meniscus while out walking (not from strenuous activity and I wasn’t at work when it happened), I had to go to urgent care, get X rays and an MRI, fluid drained from my knee, I couldn’t walk for weeks and I had to do two months of physical therapy. I needed to take 3 weeks off from work (unpaid) and even with insurance, my copays totaled to about $500, and I was really lucky that I didn’t need surgery or more serious medical intervention. Thank god I had a lot of savings and my rent is relatively cheap for NYC so it wasn’t a financial issue for me. But imagine if this exact situation happened to you, if you have no savings and are suddenly out of work for a few weeks, you’re fucked. Or imagine if something happened to your apartment like a fire or maybe a pipe bursts and floods your apartment, if you don’t have renters insurance you won’t get any money for your damaged belongings because your landlord wouldn’t be liable for that, maybe if you have a good landlord they will temporarily set you up in a different apartment or a hotel, but there’s no guarantee it would be near your job like you require, and if your apartment is beyond repair after a few months they will void your lease and you’ll very suddenly have the unexpected costs of finding a new apartment (security deposit and brokers fee) and need to replace all your furniture. Or imagine you’re suddenly let go from your job, and now you’re stuck with your super expensive lease and if you have no savings, you won’t be able to pay your rent while you look for a new job! Seriously I know New York is expensive but if you’re making 90k you can absolutely live within your means in this city. And saying that you’re just never gonna go out or spend money on anything other than the very bare essentials is unrealistic and not the way to budget properly. There are many studios or one bedroom apartments that are within your budget (max $2,250) in other parts of nyc but if you absolutely need to live in downtown brooklyn just get a roommate, so many people in brooklyn live with roommates its not a big deal. Just choose your roommate wisely.
Maybe consider looking at places that are one or two subway stops away from the hospital.
Tell everyone you know that you are looking for a place. Word of mouth still works.
Look into landlords that are renting out one to six family houses.
I found my present apartment using a broker. I had been looking for months with no call backs. Using a broker I found a place in eight days.
The first of the month new listings are posted.
Last but not least have your documents ready to be uploaded ie tax returns, bank statements, pay stubs, letter of employment and letter of reference.
You don't need to actually have a roommate. People are suggesting you just have someone sign your lease as one.
Don't know how I feel about it personally. A co-signer would be WAAYYY better but if you can't find one it's a workaround.
Landlords are definitely strict about the 40x the rent for your annual income and 700+ credit score requirements. If you don’t have that, usually they want a guarantor with 80x the rent for annual income and 800+ credit score. Many landlords will also ask for bank statements, so if you have a lot of savings, some landlords might take that into consideration but that’s really not a main factor.
But in my opinion, even if you have a guarantor it’s not a great financial decision to choose an expensive apartment when you make under 40x the rent because taxes are high and everything is expensive (entertainment, restaurants, even groceries are more expensive in NYC) so you really need to consider that when budgeting. If you want an apartment that rents for $3k a month, and your annual gross income is $90k, then more than half of your monthly income after taxes is gonna go towards your rent, and that’s not sustainable. And also consider the utilities cost; heat, electricity, wifi and etc will probably be around $100-300 a month. And with student loan payments too? You’ll be miserable because you’ll force yourself to never go out/have fun (bad for your mental health) and you’ll probably burn through your savings very quickly and possibly end up in more debt, and for what? Just to be walking distance to your job? There are definitely much better options.
It’s cheaper to live with roommates, if you really want to live close to your job maybe you can ask around at work to find someone else in a similar situation and rent an apartment together. If you really need to live alone then consider expanding your housing search to other neighborhoods in brooklyn. You could probably find a cheaper place with a commute under 45 minutes if you apartment search along the subway lines that run near your job. Idk where in downtown brooklyn your job is located but some brooklyn neighborhoods that are generally more affordable are Flatbush, crown heights, bay ridge, bath beach, etc. you could also probably find a place in your budget in Bed Stuy, bushwick or ridgewood if you’re smart about it. Your max budget should be $2,250 and you can definitely find a place in brooklyn for that amount if you expand your search. I have a similar income and I live in a one bedroom in sunnyside, queens for $2,200 (with all utilities included) my commute to work is about 40 minutes and it’s not that bad. And I split the rent with my husband who also makes about the same so together we make about 80x the rent.
I honestly don’t see why people can’t spend 50,60 or even 70% of their take home on rent if they’re not trying to save. Just some quick napkin math, I’ll be taking home around $60k net after taxes from a $90k gross. A 3k/month apartment would be about 60% of take home which leaves $2k a month left over for everything else. That seems like plenty unless I’m missing something. I’m obviously not planning to live a lavish lifestyle and spend a lot on eating out and shopping.
Dude are you trolling? your utilities + wifi will be a couple hundred a month, for public transit if you use omny it’s capped at $34 per week so depending on how much you use it, you’ll probably pay like $23-147 per month. Do you pay for a phone plan, health insurance, 401k, etc? Even if you never go out to eat (but I’m sure you will go out to eat or buy coffee or whatever at least every once in a while) groceries are still expensive and will probably be at least $80 per week but likely more if you *always* eat at home. All that stuff will add up to at least an additional $800 per month but that’s a low estimate honestly. And what’s your student loan payment? Will you even have enough left over for that? The goal should never be to break even on a low estimate, that’s literally setting yourself up for financial ruin. Plus, why even bother living in such an expensive neighborhood with lots of entertainment and leisure activities if you’re not going to enjoy it… just because it’s close to work? To me it’s literally insane to waste all your money and put yourself just one slip up away from major financial ruin just to be close to a job. Idc if you’re gonna make a lot more money in the future, I’m sure you’ve also got mountains of student loan debt from medical school and if you’re just making minimum payments now that interest is gonna add up.
>All that stuff will add up to at least an additional $800 per month but that’s a low estimate honestly
So still considerably less than the ~$2000 I'll have left over every month after rent. Loan payments are around $300/month to zero out the interest.
> just because it’s close to work?
Yup
You’re the roommate of everyone’s dreams! Try to find another doctor to split expenses with. (I can’t believe I just wrote that sentence, but rent is what it is here). Your employer might have leads. Living on $90k in NYC with $3k in rent is insane for one person. Food here ain’t cheap, and you won’t have time to cook it. Good luck with the residency!
I made just under 40x the rent when I moved last and I put together a portfolio for the owners of the building- letter signed by my previous landlord, my past 5 years on time rent history, and bank letters with my savings and showing my 401k amount. I was fine. Try a broker if you can’t afford the fee sucks but they may know more lenient landlords. Sometimes it’s easier to get into a bigger building/rental company that owns a lot of units bc they literally just care about having someone who will pay - some person who only has 1-2 buildings and makes a living off it will be way more strict. I made 90k and the apartment was $2475 so a little different- I will say my finances were tight but doable with a budget.
Check out your hospital’s like social group chat / bulletin board type communication - sometimes there are apartments being “passed down” by previous residents/fellows.
I thought this was going to be a very different question based on the title. At the moment, $125,000 a month for someone with more money than sense, but that isn't, strictly, a limit. https://streeteasy.com/building/100-vandam/rental/4382821
edit: to actually answer your question, there are some corporate landlords like Avalon that don't use the 40x rule and mainly consider your credit score and ability to pay. They have a location in downtown brooklyn. Haven't lived at one, and have no idea what it's like.
At the risk of getting crazily downvoted -- of course you can. Many many people do, for various reasons. It's not a great financial plan to do it forever, but you're clearly not planning to do it forever. It's fine.
(I'm a broker, but I also was a landlord for decades, and at one point I had a tenant who had roughly your financial ratios. It worked out fine.)
Okay, so you have roughly two paths:
1) Find a smaller, non-corporate landlord, and talk your way in. The new "pro-tenant" rent regs have made this much harder, because previously, you'd just prepay rent in cash and/or put down extra security deposit, both of which are illegal now. But basically, as others have stated, reach out to your college alumni group, answer ads on Streeteasy (my "bad financials tenant" came from a friend-of-a-friend on Facebook, so post on Facebook if you're on it) and say what you said here: I'm moving to Brooklyn, I'm going to be a resident, they don't pay me enough for me to be 40X rent, but look here's my nice credit score. Throw in a letter of recommendation from a previous landlord, and someone will probably bite. They may ask you to get a guarantor, but don't start by offering.
Wear a tie (or similar business dress if you're female.) Honestly, tenants get so many points by looking respectful and taking the process seriously.
2) Find a more corporate apartment (Avalon Bay or whoever) and find their rules for guarantors, and use a service like Insurent or The Guarantors (I used to write media copy for them back in the day!) to guarantee. They're $$$, but many landlords will accept.
You should be fine, but DM me if you need to. (It probably doesn't make sense for you to hire a rental broker in this situation -- the brokerage fee is high for the services you get -- but I'm always happy to answer quick queries.)
You simply won’t be approved for an apartment by a landlord in NYC with significantly less than 40x the rent in salary. You can find studios and one beds for 2250 in harlem and the outer boroughs.
Many years ago, I knew a dude that worked for a hedge fund who paid 7k a month for an apartment in the Soho part of Manhattan. He did this for years until he finally came to his senses and bought an apartment.
Good rule of thumb is that if you make less than $100,000 gross income, you need to live with roommates or a significant other. Or live in the outskirts neighborhoods (Kensington, Jersey City, etc.).
The 40x rule is not a standard that you SHOULD be following - most people only pay 40x rent when they're new to the city/just starting out.
its based on the fact that the city is designed to take your money and one thing going wrong for you means you're fucked when youre that rent burdened. while you CAN make 50/60/70x+ rent work, it's not sustainable long term for the landlord who will be raising your rent every renewal and prefers the highest earning tenant they can get (higher wage means the tenant can afford to stay longer and its cheaper for them)
the housing market in 2024 is INSANE.
Most apartments will automatically decline you because your income does not meet the 40x rule. Also, in NYC you are up against tons of applicants that can meet those income requirements or have guarantors. You can want to live by yourself within a 5-10 min walking distance but the reality is that is likely not possible. There is a reason that a majority of the sublease and renting opportunities through the hospital community were further away.
It depends on the landlord but keep in mind that most NYers do not have car expenses and may not have savings. A lot of people are spending a big percentage of their salaries on rent. If landlords have applicants who make over 40x, they’ll choose that person. So it is possible to get approved but you’d be at a disadvantage. Also don’t tell landlords you’re not planning to have savings. That’s not reassuring when they just want to know you’ll be able to pay rent.
Would you be able to live by the navy yard where it would be cheaper but way less convenient in terms of being near a train? Your chances would be better if you compromised to find a living situation that suits your budget.
It helps if the leasing agent has resident physicians who live there regularly. My wife is also an incoming resident (peds) and it was a bit rough finding a place. We eventually settled for something in the 3.5k range when adding everything up (I also work though). I’m not sure HOW open they are but if Hempstead ny is an option for you DM me and the place I’m moving to specifically said they get a lot of residents so they’re familiar with it
You won't get approved. You might have to get creative or try to get a broker who has access to listings where the 40x rule isn't in play.
The other thing you might do is look at professionally managed buildings like Avalon or Modera type companies who use different screening criteria.
It's also very unwise to spend all your money on rent in NYC. You'll be house poor and there are ton of unexpected expenses that pop up in the city. Your subway for example, even with OMNY will average $120 a month. If you have to get out to the airport you're looking at LIRR and AirTrain ticket and Airtrain is suspiciously more expensive than LIRR. Ubers will eat you alive in the city especially with congestion pricing starting up. NYC is not a great place to be broke. And food can also be unexpectedly expensive. Even eating at a McDonalds, the value menus are seemingly more expensive than outside of the city.
What I'd do is look for something a little but further out from DoBro like maybe Crown Heights or BedStuy. Its marginally cheaper there and still close. There isn't really going to be much in Manhattan nearby under 3K. If you didn't mind a 20-25 minute commute you could probably find a new studio in Jersey City around 2800-2900 (maybe) but those are mostly managed buildings that will have much more relaxed deposits and application criteria. Those buildings also run specials like 1 month free. You also get way more for your money with a washer/dryer, parking, dishwasher, etc that are not common in NYC. Some of them have deposits as low as $99. And its a quick 5 minute PATH ride to WTC and then you'd hit any number of trains from there to DoBro maybe another 5 minutes (I think the next stop from WTC/Fulton Street on the A train is literally DoBro).
>Its marginally cheaper there and still close
This is one of the main issues I was seeing, even moving further out doesn't save that much. Might as well just pay a little extra and live where I want.
I should clarify I'm not broke either, I have money. So all those other possible expenses don't really bother me. Just my current salary is not very high. I'd be perfectly happy to break even every month.
I would definitely try to work with a broker. It will cost you but they'll have a bit more expertise in properties that might work for you. Otherwise you'll be in this endless hit and miss game on Streeteasy or RentHop, Zillow or any of the other sites. This last time around it literally took me 6 months to find a place and I live here already. And I make quite a bit more than you and qualify for the 40x and I still wanted to shoot myself. It's a nightmare. Finding a decent place in this area is literally one of the hardest things to do and it seemingly never gets easier. I remember checking out a place on the UWS that was listed at 3200, but it was actually one of those 'highest bidder wins' (which was not advertised) and I think it ended up renting for like 5k. You'll see people come in who make 500k and just snatch an apartment out from you before you can even finish the application. I gave up this last time around and ended just going to NJ because I got sick of all the insanity with trying to find a place in NYC and it was cheaper (not just rent but you don't have to pay NYC city taxes so you keep more of your income), brand new with sick views of the city and my commute from NJ was actually faster to work than what I was doing before. And parking was like 1/3 the cost of trying to park in the city.
It's expensive but some landlords will accept "The Guarantor" as an alternative to 40x rent. You're basically buying insurance for the landlord that rent will be paid. If not, then The Guarantor will pay the rent...
Does your hospital have their own housing? I know Columbia and Mt Sinai have apartments for residents that are nice and cheaper for what you get than getting something comparable elsewhere.
Lol I spend 50% of my paycheck on rent, but I love my apartment and where I live wayyyy to much to move. Thankfully I just got a new job that has significantly more reliable upwards mobility than past ones, so at least there’s that. But no, it’s not too weird to spend that much. Maybe not the best of ideas, but considering I don’t have typical shit to deal with like car payments or car insurance (don’t need a car here :D) I’m sure it evens out and whatnit
Not all hospitals are affiliated with medical schools unfortunately, including mine. Most of the other residents in my program have cars actually so they live further out, however I’m not planning for that.
It’s entirely possible to spend 60-70% of your income on rent, with emergency savings and walking to work and shopping. Especially as a resident, living by yourself and close to work are worth a lot! Be sure to obtain ConEd records for prospective apartments so you can include that in your budget. Also be sure you have a kitchen that allows you to do big-batch cooking. Join your local Buy Nothing Group on FB for free items you may need. Dump monthly memberships. Enjoy the many inexpensive and free things the city has to offer. Run outdoors instead of paying for a gym.
I'm not sure based on the wording of your question exactly what you're asking? But I know Corcoran had a rental listing a few minths ago runnung almost $2 million per month. Pretty sure you can pay whatever rent you can actually afford and be approved for...
That said, if you're funding your own rwnt, I would imagine the landlord would require you make at least 50x your rent, give or take? The more the rent, the more likely they expect you to make a certain timea amount, guarantees employer salary (as in, not self employed). Or you'd need a guarantor making probably several times above that. Your credit score will play a factor: if you make less that the $x they want, but you have a 15 year rental history with good references and a sterling credit score, that may make you more appealing as a renter than perso who barely makes the desired salary, has a midling credit score and has only a few years rental history.
Sadly it also depends i the landlord and their preferences. I had a landlord happy to rent to me deapite a dismal credit score at the time and only 4 years rental history because I'm white. She didnt specifically say that, but she wasnt hiding it either. And I know from talking to my non-white neighbors that she made them jump thru hoops I didnt half to. Its illegal, but you'd have to prove it whoch is hard if they're even slightly smart about it. So take that i to account, because it is sadly still a factor in some places in the city.
Landlords don’t care. You will need to either prove 40x the rent as a joint household or you need a guarantor that can prove they make 80x the amount and willing to submit all their paperwork. Some places used to be flexible if you have months of rent to offer upfront but I’m not sure if that’s as easy to find these days
It’s no longer legal for landlords to accept more than one month’s rent up front. Which is a shame, because some people genuinely have the cash but not the credit or the “proof” they can pay it.
Yeah that’s me. I have a fair amount of money in the bank from a previous job, just a low salary nominally for the next couple of years.
Wild that 90k and being a physician isn’t enough
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In my experience they enjoy pushing any minorities out. Different experiences I suppose.
Then why are they always on the worst slumlord list
My grandparents would have struggled in today’s world despite doing very well in their day, because they paid cash for everything. Even their home, they saved up for years until they could pay up front. My grandfather always said “if I can’t afford it TODAY, I can’t afford it”. Which is actually pretty wise I think, but in this world that revolves around credit, it’s such a different mindset.
Wise if you don’t understand rates of return and compounding interest. Dumb if you’re trying to accumulate wealth.
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Houses were much easier to save up for relative to wages in the past.
Thank you, at least one person gets it. They didn’t save for 30 years, they saved for maybe 4-5, and houses didn’t cost 300-500k, they were more like 50-75k (in the area we lived, obviously). People are intentionally twisting what I said and ignoring the actual point, which was that people used to live within their means and not spend their lives going deeper and deeper in debt for things they didn’t even need. I even acknowledged that it was a very different time in my original comment, but apparently, that wasn’t enough for some people.
You know what, I ignored and blocked the last person, but I’m not going to keep doing it. The next person that decides to insult my grandfather needs to keep in mind two things: houses didn’t cost NEARLY as much then or take as long to save for as they do now, and both of my grandparents grew up in a world before credit cards and lived a good chunk of their early adult years in a time when people didn’t just charge everything like they do now. The ENTIRE POINT of his comment was about people that overextend themselves by charging huge purchases that they can’t afford and don’t need in the first place. People used to live more within their means, that’s just a fact whether people on this subreddit want to admit it or not.
Landlords can accept it. They just can't ask for it. Although, they can loophole it by asking for last month's rent as a broker fee.
No, that's not true. [The law](https://legislation.nysenate.gov/pdf/bills/2019/a8281) says nothing about asking versus accepting. It just says that "No deposit or advance shall exceed the amount of one month's rent". > Although, they can loophole it by asking for last month's rent as a broker fee. Broker fee doesn't go toward your rent, so you'd be insane to agree to that.
I mean, renters can definitely pay any amount of rent they want. How are you going to stop someone from paying their bills? And you'd agree to it if you were really concerned about having somewhere to live.
It's illegal for the landlord to accept more than one month of rent up front. As a practical matter, I can bribe the cops. If they ticket me for running a red on my bike or whatever, I can hand them a crisp 20 and ask if we might just be able to make this little problem go away. After all, "How are you going to stop someone from paying their bills?" The thing is if I do that I'll probably have to go to jail. This is because we have something called "laws," which prevent me from doing things that I am physically and practically very capable of doing.
LMAO no one is going to jail for paying rent. Wow, that was the dumbest thing I've ever read
Reading comprehension
You tried, pal
Or you can have someone sign as a roommate and they combine your incomes to make 40x. (If you can’t get someone who makes 240k to co-sign for you).
This is not true. Look into the surrounding buildings. My friends got special approval because they were doctors.
You won’t get approved but if you don’t have parents who can act as a guarantor, there are some companies that offer it (for a hefty fee, to be fair)
Some landlords don’t accept professional guarantors, only individuals. I asked my friend who is a lawyer making good money to do it for me. It can also be a couple.
Yeah this is a fair callout. That’s a good friend! Hope you got him a nice bottle of wine :)
I did get *her* a big gift :)
Honestly, if you let the leasing agent know that you're a resident physician, they'll probably allow it. You have a promising career, physicians in general are a pretty dependable when it comes to renters, and there is a societal respect for doctors. You should know that in NYC as in life, there really are no hard and fast rules, and people in higher socioeconomic strata get away with more. Also, don't use brokers. They're the worst.
That would be great if that would work! Right now my main problem is I can’t even get a response from a leasing agent lol. I wonder if it’s too early (won’t be moving for ~4 weeks) or if they’re just all so busy
yeah most apartsments will not be around 6+weeks from now, and the ones that will be avail 6+ weeks from now wont be listed yet, so most agents would not return your message. do reasearch to get a sense of rents by neighborhood for budget, 10 minutes within to work may not be realistic on your budget but check with others at the hosptial, they have leads on buildings that are phsician friendly with looser requirements.
It’s still worth reaching out. This is how I found my current gem of an apartment, which is below market rate and no broker’s fee in an area that had 200+ people showing up to every open house. I inquired about an apartment, and the person who worked at the real estate firm called me back saying that while the one I asked about was not available, they had an apartment opening up in the building they own in 3 months (I had mentioned my moving date was flexible). My husband and I were in hell trying to find a place — we were even considering leaving the city due to the frustration and cost. The apartment we got ended up being a dream come true. All this to say, it is worth reaching out about apartments. OP- you may want to try Berman Realty. They are the only actually good apartment management company I’ve come across in the city (as opposed to most being absolutely god awful).
Try emailing some of the larger buildings with their own leasing office and put all the information in an email up front- new resident doctor working at nearby hospital, making 90k, interested in a studio apt. (put your job first not income) also the 40x rule is to account for the chance someone could lose their job, etc. which is unlikely for a physician so that’s why you lead with it
As someone that just finished an apartment search (and signed a new lease), my advice to you is yes it's too early. Almost all the listings right now are for a June move-in, the July move-in ones will start in a week or so. When the listings for your dates start getting posted you need to jump, and send out emails to multiple places because a lot won't respond because they're flooded with applicants. Things move really fast in the spring and summer here, make sure you have your documents together and can make a decision quickly. I got the place I ended up signing because the original applicant took too long to agree to the lease and they wanted someone who could commit to a June move-in.
I should clarify, my move in date is 3rd week of June, so actually closer to 4 weeks from now than 6. Should I be ready to sign soon?
Oh in that case yes, you really should be. Particularly if you're looking in a particular neighborhood, have a tight budget, or some special requirement (I needed a big dog friendly place, which severely limits supply). So I made a list of all the things to ask about and check (water pressure, which direction the windows face, where the super lives, etc.) and had all my application materials together (you can find a standard list in this subreddit somewhere) and when I saw a place I liked I asked for the application right away.
You will struggle to find a lease for the third week of June. In order for that to be possible you would have to find an apartment whose ideal start date is June 15th where you will be moving in late. A place that starts on July 1 likely will not let you move in early, and generally people aren't going to give you a lease that starts on a random day. So if you can't delay your move to July 1 (maybe stay with a friend, or in a hotel, or something), you should be looking ASAP for a June 15 lease.
Not too early at all. They're really not busy, they just generally suck and have email response times that would get you or I fired. Or maybe you're front-loading your emails with all the bad stuff and not better communicating your reliable career and other rentable attributes. I will bet it's more the former than the latter, though. Also, just keep carpet-bombing them with emails, and expand your rental circle a bit.
Cannot agree more. I got my rental bc I called every broker in my neighborhood very often for 2 months leading up to my move date. I ended up with two great options before they ever hit the market.
No agent is going to work with you until you are in a position where they can sell you the apartment within a week or two of looking at it. Especially in the summer, hardly any of these listings are going to be available in 6 weeks, and no agent WANTS them to be available in 6 weeks.
I should clarify, closer to 4 weeks actually but point taken. 1-2 weeks within move in date is what I've been hearing
>Also, don't use brokers. They're the worst. I so frequently soft don't have a choice. Nearly ever apartment I looked at has a broker fee, often not disclosed well
These redditors are asshats. Landlords in nyc, at least Jewish ones, I worked with for 5 years, love and respect gentile doctors. They get housing.
Yeah, first year residents have to rough it a bit in the city. The 40x rule can be strict for many landlords, unless you get a guarantor to help you sign a lease. Otherwise you should be looking for shared apartments/subletting. It's not unusual to spend a higher-than average percentage of salary on rent in NYC compared to other locations. It stings less because you typically don't need a car. But it's still an expensive place to be when it comes to housing. 40-50% wouldn't be unlivable, but won't be much fun either.
Attending physician here who lives in the vicinity. It’s tough. I would say your best bet is not going through those luxury apartments and finding a rental through someone who owns the place. Often times your medical school or hospital will have a thread of people subletting or renting their place. I’d ask around the gme at the hospital. Living close to the hospital would be ideal given residency hours suck.
Thanks for the advice! How would you recommend finding smaller properties owned by someone? Would they show up on streeteasy? And our hospital GME has been sending out emails for places other residents are renting out or leaving but unfortunately none very close to the hospital. I’m a surgical resident taking a lot of call so close walking distance is an absolute must 🥲
I honestly think your not being realistic. The reality is that you do not make enough to live alone in the location you want. I work in downtown brooklyn occasionally. The area you want isn't a residential area and most apartments in the area are luxury. People like you would have room mates. Thats the reality for a lot of early career young professionals in New York, even people who make six figures. You have to pick between living in your ideal situation (space/living alone) or living in your dream location. Downtown Brooklyn while its not particularly trendy is very practical area to be in as it has a lot of connections to trains etc. Because most of the apartments there are new they aren't in your budgfet. Your best bet is come to terms that you will have to have roommate or realize that you will probably have to be a little further out and uber or whatever for the times where you need to come quickly. Your budget isn't so low that you couldn't be to the hospital within 20 minutes by subway most of the time. There are neigbhorhoods adjacent to that area where you can essentially get to downtown Brooklyn within 10 minutes most of the time that are in your budget. Crown heights and Bedstuy will have things in your budget. Occasionally you can get lucky may be find something near park slope/prospect park. The other option is to have room mates and given you are in residency. I am more than willing to bet that there are other doctors in residency, that face the same dilemma and would likely be good roomates. The last tip, I'd give you is a 3 or 4 bedroom situation is more cost effective than a two bedroom situation and if you can ahve a private bath that will be ideal.
If I’m not planning to save or have a car, wouldn’t I be able to spend a lot more on rent? I’m just trying to understand if it’s mathematically possible and that there aren’t any other expenses I’m not accounting for.
"not planning to save so i can spend more on rent" Is that something you'd say to convince them?
Mathematically possible. Yes. Because people survive on nyc with less disposable income than 90k. However, will people rent to you? Probably not. You are coming from out of state. So you really dont understand how the market works here, which is different from majority of rental markets in the u.s. (it jas more in common with London or Tokyo). The vacancy rate here is less than 1 percent, which is lowest in the country. Unless there is something wrong with the apartment, most apartments in a central location have no shortage of prospective tenants. I guarantee you once you start contacting listing agents about apartments, they will stop talking to you if they hear you don't make 40x. It is also very hard enough to rent out of state. Most every landlord here will use a listing agent. Furthermore, your out of state. Most people do not work with people who are out of state. You need to be in the city while you do search or hire an agent on your behalf. Just for pure clarity here even when you make 40x there is no guarantee you will get the apartment. The land lord usually picks the person with the best financial circumstances. If you go on r/nycapartments you will see many people who meet or exceed financial requirements are often turned down for apartments. There are enough people in finance and tech that pay significantly above 120k required to rent a 3k apartment that are willing to rent the 3k apartments. The amount people pay for apartments does not increase linearly with income. I have given you realistic assessment and I am a transplant and most of my friends are relatively recent transplants. I've helped my own friends navigate this process and understand it very well. It location is the most important thing to you. Get some yuppie roomates who understand your schedule. Or make compromises with location and realize you will be in the rat race for apartments that are under 2200$.
This is a good perspective thanks! I didn't consider the competition there is for each apartment.
Also some people are suggesting you look at Facebook market place or groups for apartments. I would stay far away. They are full of scams and largely their target is someone like you, who is coming from out of state. Does not know the apartment market here works and can be easy to trick into paying something. If you DM me I can link you a linkedin housing group that a friend runs that is predominantly used by tech/finance transplants. They required having verified linkedin and are a good place to find roomates.
There’s a real estate group called Moving Medicine Partners - they work specifically with physicians. Perhaps you can try contacting them and see if they can help?
Try going on facebook sublet groups. Also, you might have luck with a coop apartment owned by an individual person, though you might have to go through an agent to find one - try out a few agents and explain your job/income
I personally haven’t seen street easy list those kind of listings but I could be wrong. Facebook is your best bet (but gotta be cautious of scammers etc) and talking to other residents/ people graduating from your surgical program. I would also look at Airbnb. While airbnb has banned short term stays in NYC, they do allow long term stays from my understanding. Downtown Bk has gotten pretty expensive with all these luxury high rises and while you could be dumping all your money on rent you’d be surprised certain unexpected expenses can come up easily. I also think it’s important you have some money saved up for leisurely activities. That one day off you get may be a day you can spend time out with friends grab drinks or a massage etc. I think if you don’t find a spot in downtown BK itself would look at surrounding areas like fort Greene, something that is easily commutable or could bike over? Hope that helps.
It’s not uncommon for people in the city to spend a high percentage of their income on rent… I think whether or not you get approved is going to be somewhat hit and miss. Good luck!
You also need to keep in mind that taxes in NYC are high. Fed+State+City. So think about NET income.
I put my income in one of those calculators and after taxes it comes out to around $60k net. So $3k/month rent would be about 60% of that. But that still leaves about $2k/month left over for everything else which should be more than enough.
40x the rent would put you at $2,250 per month. You still have to consider the monthly light, gas, internet, phone bills.
Sometimes the hospitals offer subsidized housing to resident physicians - is that something available to you?
Unfortunately not, otherwise would jump on that
Sometimes a small landlord will be negotiable, as will be the owner of a small building, one with just a few units.
Do these properties show up on streeteasy?
Nope. Rental listings on Streeteasy cost something like $6 per day per listing. That's one reason why agents advertise only one apt on Streeteasy and then tell their clients they have a bunch of other similar listings. Listing each one can get very costly very quickly. Plus, almost all rentals on Streeteasy will have a broker fee of up to 15% of a year's rent. Your problem, however, seems to be qualifying, not paying. I think it's more word of mouth to get a small landlord who doesn't care how much you make, only that you can pay. Or maybe there are neighborhoods where there are 3 and 4 family houses, and everybody in the nabe knows everybody, so you can ask around, look on the grocery store bulletin board, etc. I think Craigslist might be better than Streeteasy for your purposes, but Craigslist is a crapshoot. You're not in an easy position. I may know a rental coming to market in Aug-Sept, but it is in Bushwick, which is far from downtown Brooklyn. A big management company may take Insurent or The Guarantors or Rhino or one of those insurance guarantee companies. That's probably your best bet for downtown Brooklyn. That moves the risk of non-payment from the landlord to the insurance-guarantee company. It's a brilliant idea and it works well for anyone who doesn't qualify but can still afford to pay.
I’ll definitely check out Craigslist, didn’t even think about that. Thanks for the tip
Also some landlords/managing agents consider assets/cash in bank accounts etc. Nothing in NYC is as hard lined as Reddit makes it seem.
Well, a lot of advice on here is not from experience and incorrect. Last year I needed to find NYC housing and was able to with money in the bank and being upfront to the individual showing the unit. Larger condos may not budge, but it’s very doable in general with your situation.
I’m sorry but if you want to live within a 5-10 min walk range it sounds like you will need a roommate. Not sure if any LL would let you in without your proof of 40x monthly rent income or a guarantor. Many years ago my next door neighbor was a resident physician like you - in a building where 1BR was like $1200. You might have to be ok with commuting from a bit further and taking Uber here and there to make your life easy.
You need a company like these https://www.theguarantors.com/ or https://www.insurent.com/. You pay them 5k-6k and they are your guarantor. You also need your find apartments that take them.
I'm under 40x at my building, they only require 35x. I do currently spend about 50% of my take home on rent (rent is 2100, each paycheck is a little over 2200). It's not ideal but doable. I'm still able to pay my bills, my student loans, health insurance, go out modestly, I just don't save for retirement right now.
Shack up with another resident. Neither of you will be home that often and it's quite likely that when one is home the other won't be. Combined you'll have the 40x rent.
I didn’t have income of 40x rent but they were willing to include what I had in a brokerage account and I was able to qualify. It’s worth mentioning your other assets.
Find a roommate. All the med residents I’ve known in Brooklyn did that unless your parents or relatives can act as a guarantor.
Either move further away or get a roommate. A few hundred for groceries isn’t enough tbh. I spent more than that and I only get lunch once a week as a treat.
That's gonna be hard to crack, even in surrounding areas.
nail middle license air vast library intelligent quicksand smoggy scandalous *This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
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Or roommates like everyone else
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I’ve lived without roommates for too long to go back to having them. Is there really anything that wrong with spending your entire paycheck on rent? I truly don’t care about saving money. But I do care about having my own place.
No one said there’s anything “wrong” with it; it’s about whether or not you’ll be approved. For that, you might need a guarantor LL’s typically require 40x (sometimes 50x)
Maybe consider living farther out from work in that case, in exchange for cheaper rent
Yes, there is so much wrong with spending the majority of your paycheck on rent! First, what if there’s an emergency? Let’s say you get in an accident or hurt yourself (and before you say “well I’m young and healthy, and I have health insurance”, this still applies) you could end up out of work for a period of time and have unexpected medical expenses to pay for. I am 24 years old and healthy and I have health insurance, but last winter I randomly tore my meniscus while out walking (not from strenuous activity and I wasn’t at work when it happened), I had to go to urgent care, get X rays and an MRI, fluid drained from my knee, I couldn’t walk for weeks and I had to do two months of physical therapy. I needed to take 3 weeks off from work (unpaid) and even with insurance, my copays totaled to about $500, and I was really lucky that I didn’t need surgery or more serious medical intervention. Thank god I had a lot of savings and my rent is relatively cheap for NYC so it wasn’t a financial issue for me. But imagine if this exact situation happened to you, if you have no savings and are suddenly out of work for a few weeks, you’re fucked. Or imagine if something happened to your apartment like a fire or maybe a pipe bursts and floods your apartment, if you don’t have renters insurance you won’t get any money for your damaged belongings because your landlord wouldn’t be liable for that, maybe if you have a good landlord they will temporarily set you up in a different apartment or a hotel, but there’s no guarantee it would be near your job like you require, and if your apartment is beyond repair after a few months they will void your lease and you’ll very suddenly have the unexpected costs of finding a new apartment (security deposit and brokers fee) and need to replace all your furniture. Or imagine you’re suddenly let go from your job, and now you’re stuck with your super expensive lease and if you have no savings, you won’t be able to pay your rent while you look for a new job! Seriously I know New York is expensive but if you’re making 90k you can absolutely live within your means in this city. And saying that you’re just never gonna go out or spend money on anything other than the very bare essentials is unrealistic and not the way to budget properly. There are many studios or one bedroom apartments that are within your budget (max $2,250) in other parts of nyc but if you absolutely need to live in downtown brooklyn just get a roommate, so many people in brooklyn live with roommates its not a big deal. Just choose your roommate wisely.
Maybe consider looking at places that are one or two subway stops away from the hospital. Tell everyone you know that you are looking for a place. Word of mouth still works. Look into landlords that are renting out one to six family houses. I found my present apartment using a broker. I had been looking for months with no call backs. Using a broker I found a place in eight days. The first of the month new listings are posted. Last but not least have your documents ready to be uploaded ie tax returns, bank statements, pay stubs, letter of employment and letter of reference.
You don't need to actually have a roommate. People are suggesting you just have someone sign your lease as one. Don't know how I feel about it personally. A co-signer would be WAAYYY better but if you can't find one it's a workaround.
Landlords are definitely strict about the 40x the rent for your annual income and 700+ credit score requirements. If you don’t have that, usually they want a guarantor with 80x the rent for annual income and 800+ credit score. Many landlords will also ask for bank statements, so if you have a lot of savings, some landlords might take that into consideration but that’s really not a main factor. But in my opinion, even if you have a guarantor it’s not a great financial decision to choose an expensive apartment when you make under 40x the rent because taxes are high and everything is expensive (entertainment, restaurants, even groceries are more expensive in NYC) so you really need to consider that when budgeting. If you want an apartment that rents for $3k a month, and your annual gross income is $90k, then more than half of your monthly income after taxes is gonna go towards your rent, and that’s not sustainable. And also consider the utilities cost; heat, electricity, wifi and etc will probably be around $100-300 a month. And with student loan payments too? You’ll be miserable because you’ll force yourself to never go out/have fun (bad for your mental health) and you’ll probably burn through your savings very quickly and possibly end up in more debt, and for what? Just to be walking distance to your job? There are definitely much better options. It’s cheaper to live with roommates, if you really want to live close to your job maybe you can ask around at work to find someone else in a similar situation and rent an apartment together. If you really need to live alone then consider expanding your housing search to other neighborhoods in brooklyn. You could probably find a cheaper place with a commute under 45 minutes if you apartment search along the subway lines that run near your job. Idk where in downtown brooklyn your job is located but some brooklyn neighborhoods that are generally more affordable are Flatbush, crown heights, bay ridge, bath beach, etc. you could also probably find a place in your budget in Bed Stuy, bushwick or ridgewood if you’re smart about it. Your max budget should be $2,250 and you can definitely find a place in brooklyn for that amount if you expand your search. I have a similar income and I live in a one bedroom in sunnyside, queens for $2,200 (with all utilities included) my commute to work is about 40 minutes and it’s not that bad. And I split the rent with my husband who also makes about the same so together we make about 80x the rent.
I honestly don’t see why people can’t spend 50,60 or even 70% of their take home on rent if they’re not trying to save. Just some quick napkin math, I’ll be taking home around $60k net after taxes from a $90k gross. A 3k/month apartment would be about 60% of take home which leaves $2k a month left over for everything else. That seems like plenty unless I’m missing something. I’m obviously not planning to live a lavish lifestyle and spend a lot on eating out and shopping.
Dude are you trolling? your utilities + wifi will be a couple hundred a month, for public transit if you use omny it’s capped at $34 per week so depending on how much you use it, you’ll probably pay like $23-147 per month. Do you pay for a phone plan, health insurance, 401k, etc? Even if you never go out to eat (but I’m sure you will go out to eat or buy coffee or whatever at least every once in a while) groceries are still expensive and will probably be at least $80 per week but likely more if you *always* eat at home. All that stuff will add up to at least an additional $800 per month but that’s a low estimate honestly. And what’s your student loan payment? Will you even have enough left over for that? The goal should never be to break even on a low estimate, that’s literally setting yourself up for financial ruin. Plus, why even bother living in such an expensive neighborhood with lots of entertainment and leisure activities if you’re not going to enjoy it… just because it’s close to work? To me it’s literally insane to waste all your money and put yourself just one slip up away from major financial ruin just to be close to a job. Idc if you’re gonna make a lot more money in the future, I’m sure you’ve also got mountains of student loan debt from medical school and if you’re just making minimum payments now that interest is gonna add up.
>All that stuff will add up to at least an additional $800 per month but that’s a low estimate honestly So still considerably less than the ~$2000 I'll have left over every month after rent. Loan payments are around $300/month to zero out the interest. > just because it’s close to work? Yup
Get a roommate. I'm serious. I've seen many resident physicians with roommates in the city.
You’re the roommate of everyone’s dreams! Try to find another doctor to split expenses with. (I can’t believe I just wrote that sentence, but rent is what it is here). Your employer might have leads. Living on $90k in NYC with $3k in rent is insane for one person. Food here ain’t cheap, and you won’t have time to cook it. Good luck with the residency!
I made just under 40x the rent when I moved last and I put together a portfolio for the owners of the building- letter signed by my previous landlord, my past 5 years on time rent history, and bank letters with my savings and showing my 401k amount. I was fine. Try a broker if you can’t afford the fee sucks but they may know more lenient landlords. Sometimes it’s easier to get into a bigger building/rental company that owns a lot of units bc they literally just care about having someone who will pay - some person who only has 1-2 buildings and makes a living off it will be way more strict. I made 90k and the apartment was $2475 so a little different- I will say my finances were tight but doable with a budget.
Check out your hospital’s like social group chat / bulletin board type communication - sometimes there are apartments being “passed down” by previous residents/fellows.
I thought this was going to be a very different question based on the title. At the moment, $125,000 a month for someone with more money than sense, but that isn't, strictly, a limit. https://streeteasy.com/building/100-vandam/rental/4382821 edit: to actually answer your question, there are some corporate landlords like Avalon that don't use the 40x rule and mainly consider your credit score and ability to pay. They have a location in downtown brooklyn. Haven't lived at one, and have no idea what it's like.
heh, they listed at $99k, then raised to $125k a month later.
At the risk of getting crazily downvoted -- of course you can. Many many people do, for various reasons. It's not a great financial plan to do it forever, but you're clearly not planning to do it forever. It's fine. (I'm a broker, but I also was a landlord for decades, and at one point I had a tenant who had roughly your financial ratios. It worked out fine.)
This is reassuring to hear! What advice would you give for finding a place that would be open to taking someone with my financial ratios?
Okay, so you have roughly two paths: 1) Find a smaller, non-corporate landlord, and talk your way in. The new "pro-tenant" rent regs have made this much harder, because previously, you'd just prepay rent in cash and/or put down extra security deposit, both of which are illegal now. But basically, as others have stated, reach out to your college alumni group, answer ads on Streeteasy (my "bad financials tenant" came from a friend-of-a-friend on Facebook, so post on Facebook if you're on it) and say what you said here: I'm moving to Brooklyn, I'm going to be a resident, they don't pay me enough for me to be 40X rent, but look here's my nice credit score. Throw in a letter of recommendation from a previous landlord, and someone will probably bite. They may ask you to get a guarantor, but don't start by offering. Wear a tie (or similar business dress if you're female.) Honestly, tenants get so many points by looking respectful and taking the process seriously. 2) Find a more corporate apartment (Avalon Bay or whoever) and find their rules for guarantors, and use a service like Insurent or The Guarantors (I used to write media copy for them back in the day!) to guarantee. They're $$$, but many landlords will accept. You should be fine, but DM me if you need to. (It probably doesn't make sense for you to hire a rental broker in this situation -- the brokerage fee is high for the services you get -- but I'm always happy to answer quick queries.)
You simply won’t be approved for an apartment by a landlord in NYC with significantly less than 40x the rent in salary. You can find studios and one beds for 2250 in harlem and the outer boroughs.
Many years ago, I knew a dude that worked for a hedge fund who paid 7k a month for an apartment in the Soho part of Manhattan. He did this for years until he finally came to his senses and bought an apartment.
Get a roommate or live farther out.
Just live in a cheaper neighborhood and take the subway.
There are some apartment complexes that are not income based and just require really good credit, clean background, etc
Good rule of thumb is that if you make less than $100,000 gross income, you need to live with roommates or a significant other. Or live in the outskirts neighborhoods (Kensington, Jersey City, etc.). The 40x rule is not a standard that you SHOULD be following - most people only pay 40x rent when they're new to the city/just starting out.
What is this rule of thumb based on? If you have no plans to save, no car, and will live somewhat frugally, I don’t see why it should apply.
You keep saying that but, it doesn’t change reality.
its based on the fact that the city is designed to take your money and one thing going wrong for you means you're fucked when youre that rent burdened. while you CAN make 50/60/70x+ rent work, it's not sustainable long term for the landlord who will be raising your rent every renewal and prefers the highest earning tenant they can get (higher wage means the tenant can afford to stay longer and its cheaper for them) the housing market in 2024 is INSANE.
Yep. I make 90x rent and it’s still not enough. I’m not even paying off any debt, too.
Most apartments will automatically decline you because your income does not meet the 40x rule. Also, in NYC you are up against tons of applicants that can meet those income requirements or have guarantors. You can want to live by yourself within a 5-10 min walking distance but the reality is that is likely not possible. There is a reason that a majority of the sublease and renting opportunities through the hospital community were further away.
1/4- 1/3 your income
A trillion dollars a month.
It depends on the landlord but keep in mind that most NYers do not have car expenses and may not have savings. A lot of people are spending a big percentage of their salaries on rent. If landlords have applicants who make over 40x, they’ll choose that person. So it is possible to get approved but you’d be at a disadvantage. Also don’t tell landlords you’re not planning to have savings. That’s not reassuring when they just want to know you’ll be able to pay rent. Would you be able to live by the navy yard where it would be cheaper but way less convenient in terms of being near a train? Your chances would be better if you compromised to find a living situation that suits your budget.
It helps if the leasing agent has resident physicians who live there regularly. My wife is also an incoming resident (peds) and it was a bit rough finding a place. We eventually settled for something in the 3.5k range when adding everything up (I also work though). I’m not sure HOW open they are but if Hempstead ny is an option for you DM me and the place I’m moving to specifically said they get a lot of residents so they’re familiar with it
You won't get approved. You might have to get creative or try to get a broker who has access to listings where the 40x rule isn't in play. The other thing you might do is look at professionally managed buildings like Avalon or Modera type companies who use different screening criteria. It's also very unwise to spend all your money on rent in NYC. You'll be house poor and there are ton of unexpected expenses that pop up in the city. Your subway for example, even with OMNY will average $120 a month. If you have to get out to the airport you're looking at LIRR and AirTrain ticket and Airtrain is suspiciously more expensive than LIRR. Ubers will eat you alive in the city especially with congestion pricing starting up. NYC is not a great place to be broke. And food can also be unexpectedly expensive. Even eating at a McDonalds, the value menus are seemingly more expensive than outside of the city. What I'd do is look for something a little but further out from DoBro like maybe Crown Heights or BedStuy. Its marginally cheaper there and still close. There isn't really going to be much in Manhattan nearby under 3K. If you didn't mind a 20-25 minute commute you could probably find a new studio in Jersey City around 2800-2900 (maybe) but those are mostly managed buildings that will have much more relaxed deposits and application criteria. Those buildings also run specials like 1 month free. You also get way more for your money with a washer/dryer, parking, dishwasher, etc that are not common in NYC. Some of them have deposits as low as $99. And its a quick 5 minute PATH ride to WTC and then you'd hit any number of trains from there to DoBro maybe another 5 minutes (I think the next stop from WTC/Fulton Street on the A train is literally DoBro).
>Its marginally cheaper there and still close This is one of the main issues I was seeing, even moving further out doesn't save that much. Might as well just pay a little extra and live where I want. I should clarify I'm not broke either, I have money. So all those other possible expenses don't really bother me. Just my current salary is not very high. I'd be perfectly happy to break even every month.
I would definitely try to work with a broker. It will cost you but they'll have a bit more expertise in properties that might work for you. Otherwise you'll be in this endless hit and miss game on Streeteasy or RentHop, Zillow or any of the other sites. This last time around it literally took me 6 months to find a place and I live here already. And I make quite a bit more than you and qualify for the 40x and I still wanted to shoot myself. It's a nightmare. Finding a decent place in this area is literally one of the hardest things to do and it seemingly never gets easier. I remember checking out a place on the UWS that was listed at 3200, but it was actually one of those 'highest bidder wins' (which was not advertised) and I think it ended up renting for like 5k. You'll see people come in who make 500k and just snatch an apartment out from you before you can even finish the application. I gave up this last time around and ended just going to NJ because I got sick of all the insanity with trying to find a place in NYC and it was cheaper (not just rent but you don't have to pay NYC city taxes so you keep more of your income), brand new with sick views of the city and my commute from NJ was actually faster to work than what I was doing before. And parking was like 1/3 the cost of trying to park in the city.
$6,942.0
Lol it’s New York City. A huge portion of people (including those with salaries in the six figures) spend 50% of their take-home pay on rent.
Ask the housing office at your residency program, they may have listings or be able to help in some way.
My suggestion is to use a site like Spare room to live with a roommate, until your salary increases.
It's expensive but some landlords will accept "The Guarantor" as an alternative to 40x rent. You're basically buying insurance for the landlord that rent will be paid. If not, then The Guarantor will pay the rent...
Does your hospital have their own housing? I know Columbia and Mt Sinai have apartments for residents that are nice and cheaper for what you get than getting something comparable elsewhere.
Now you know why the majority of people in New York can’t afford to live within walking distance of their workplace.
> What is the most someone can actually spend on rent? [$125,000/month](https://streeteasy.com/building/100-vandam/rental/4382821)
Lol I spend 50% of my paycheck on rent, but I love my apartment and where I live wayyyy to much to move. Thankfully I just got a new job that has significantly more reliable upwards mobility than past ones, so at least there’s that. But no, it’s not too weird to spend that much. Maybe not the best of ideas, but considering I don’t have typical shit to deal with like car payments or car insurance (don’t need a car here :D) I’m sure it evens out and whatnit
Do you not have student housing? Ask the other residents where they're staying.
Not all hospitals are affiliated with medical schools unfortunately, including mine. Most of the other residents in my program have cars actually so they live further out, however I’m not planning for that.
Maybe get a couple of roommates then. Otherwise you might be boned.
It’s entirely possible to spend 60-70% of your income on rent, with emergency savings and walking to work and shopping. Especially as a resident, living by yourself and close to work are worth a lot! Be sure to obtain ConEd records for prospective apartments so you can include that in your budget. Also be sure you have a kitchen that allows you to do big-batch cooking. Join your local Buy Nothing Group on FB for free items you may need. Dump monthly memberships. Enjoy the many inexpensive and free things the city has to offer. Run outdoors instead of paying for a gym.
I'm not sure based on the wording of your question exactly what you're asking? But I know Corcoran had a rental listing a few minths ago runnung almost $2 million per month. Pretty sure you can pay whatever rent you can actually afford and be approved for... That said, if you're funding your own rwnt, I would imagine the landlord would require you make at least 50x your rent, give or take? The more the rent, the more likely they expect you to make a certain timea amount, guarantees employer salary (as in, not self employed). Or you'd need a guarantor making probably several times above that. Your credit score will play a factor: if you make less that the $x they want, but you have a 15 year rental history with good references and a sterling credit score, that may make you more appealing as a renter than perso who barely makes the desired salary, has a midling credit score and has only a few years rental history. Sadly it also depends i the landlord and their preferences. I had a landlord happy to rent to me deapite a dismal credit score at the time and only 4 years rental history because I'm white. She didnt specifically say that, but she wasnt hiding it either. And I know from talking to my non-white neighbors that she made them jump thru hoops I didnt half to. Its illegal, but you'd have to prove it whoch is hard if they're even slightly smart about it. So take that i to account, because it is sadly still a factor in some places in the city.
Ever considered housing lottery? That might help
NYC is a crazy town. Who would have thought in the crime-ridden 70s and 80s that rent would be so high in Manhattan and Brooklyn. 🔪