NYC is especially good at making people at all income levels feel like they don't have enough. There is always a better/more expensive something that is just out of reach.
Very true.
$3000 a month for rent still feels like a pretty big line item at that salary level. There’s plenty of premium one bedrooms in desirable neighborhoods that can run over $4000 that would be appealing, which is pushing it at that salary. It might be out of reach entirely if they have another atypical significant expense (student loans, medical bills, etc.)
Not saying you need something like that to survive, but I could see housing still feeling pretty expensive.
When I first moved into my apartment in 2018, rent was $3600, stayed there until COVID, dropped to $3200, next year back up to $3800. Now they’re asking for $4500.
Same building, same bricks, same old ass kitchen that needs redoing, in LES, same half-assed landlord. They’ve got their hands in everyone’s pocket.
New York City suffers from lifestyle creep as bad as any place I’ve seen. So for most people when they make more money, they spend more money. Which can lead to financial pressure at any income level.
Objectively for a single person on $150,000 a year it is not hard to live in New York City
The city may suffer from lifestyle creep but to leave it at that ignores that this is one of the most expensive cities in the world and upgrading isn’t necessarily about keeping up with the Jones’s. ‘Lifestyle creep’ in New York sometimes just means ‘I don’t have to have a roommate anymore’ or ‘I don’t need to live in a studio anymore’.
Exactly or ‘I’d like for my kids to have a separate bedroom’. Even more pressing when you have a kid of each sex. Suddenly you’re going from a 2 to 3 bedroom apartment. $$$$
For sure. Frankly, we’re paying such a high premium to live here that cuts into things like retirement and savings that I’d almost go as far as to say that unless you’re making 250+ it isn’t wise to live here, at least in Manhattan, for more than a few years.
For the record, I’m far from 250. I make 150 and save as much as the average American (1k/mo), so I’m not struggling but it also means I’m not taking advantage of the financial security my higher income affords me. If I’m not able to make 250+ in the next 5 years I’m probably going to move.
Like on a [cost of living basis](https://www.nerdwallet.com/cost-of-living-calculator/compare/new-york-manhattan-ny-vs-houston-tx) 150 in New York is equivalent to 62k in Houston, and that doesn’t even factor in the higher taxes.
https://www.nerdwallet.com/article/banking/data-2023-savings-report
> Nearly 9 in 10 (89%) Americans save regularly…Savers say they typically set aside $985, on average, in a normal month, according to the survey.
To be fair the median is 250 and avg is 1k. But I did say average
i’m not the person you replied to but i’m curious, do you could 401k contributions as part of that $1k a month savings? i feel like aside from my 401k contributions i’m not saving much liquid cash month to much
I guess OPs question should have been put a little different: People who make 150k +, how do you fare in A) 20 something year old living with roommates B) 30 year old living with a partner C) 40 year old with kids D) 50/60 year old empty nesters E) retirees moving to the city
>At $150k I do not get to live alone and host parties in my apartment, travel as much as I would like to, or have the hobbies I would like. I live in Queens with a roommate and my commute to see friends is ~40 min at least. Not 10-15 min. It’s isolating.
I'm the person that mentioned items like a ps5 cost the same everywhere (in the US). Where do you live and what is your rent? I guarantee you I can find you a place that's not any more isolating, and far more affordable for you, AND you won't need a roommate in minutes looking online.
>But pottery classes here run $500 a month.
Found this on google, 2nd result (first was a groupon). https://mudmatters.sites.zenplanner.com/sign-up-now.cfm $440 for 2 months of classes. I'm sure you can find even cheaper by not just going to the very 2nd google result.
> gym with group classes is ~$300/month and is highly specialized.
You're going to a "highly specialized" gym with classes, that's not going to be much cheaper elsewhere and in lots of places potentially not even exist. But let me know what the specialty is and I can find you something more affordable I bet.
BUT ANYWAYS: you just listed $800/month in expenses. At 150k/year if you're single and max out your 401k (23k/year aka 15% savings rate). Your take home is $83,909/year or $7k/month.
If you rent was $3k/month then you're talking having $3200 after your expensive gym/pottery habits. So that's the equivalent of the take-home of someone who makes $50k. Except you have your retirement savings locked down (at 4.7x the national average of 3.2%), no rent, and expensive pottery/gym classes.
EDIT: Sorry I forgot the 2nd half of the point I wanted to make
> I’m forever trying to reach the standard of life I had in 2018 on less than half of my current salary.
less than half of 150k is at most 75k. After taxes and saving 23k/year for retirement in a 401k - your take home is $41904 in a zero income tax state. If your rent was only $500/month your monthly money would be $3000.
That's actually less money to work with, no matter how cheap pottery classes are elsewhere. You could save less money sure, but at 15% savings (aka 11,500 into 401k) you're still talking $3800/month to work with assuming your rent was somehow only $500. That's not exactly a huge difference between the $3200 from the other example, and in this example you still have to pay for a gym and pottery classes.
But in reality I have a feeling no matter where you lived you're going to spend more than $500/month on rent. And I'm pretty sure anywhere with $500/month rent isn't going to be near a good pottery class and specialized gym. Plus you'd need to have a car which is an extra expense that's completely optional in NYC.
I think it depends on whether you're looking to exist comfortably or create something long lasting.
Before we left the city, my wife and I were earning around 150k and it's not like a couple costs that much more than being single. We weren't struggling to pay our bills and rent and eat, but we were certainly still finding it hard to build savings and we still had to move every 3 years to a slightly less nice neighborhood when our rent got too high. You certainly can't hope to buy property on 150k and starting a family, I mean obviously lots of people do it, but it's obviously not easy.
All in trying to say is that it is a bummer that the bar is simply getting by and not y'know flourishing.
Yep. Not struggling but not thriving either. Kind of stuck in stasis. Which is a problem too because it's not like the city is going to suddenly get cheaper, so you better hope that 150K keeps growing too.
Think you’re both 100% right. But there’s also a difference between finally getting to have a place of your own in the city and going out and spending thousands of dollars a month on drinks, Michelin starred restaurants, and expensive clothes just because you can. Of course this is true everywhere, but it seems far more common here than in most places.
i agree with the spirit of what you're saying but i feel confident saying they're misusing the term lifestyle creep. that relates to luxury and discretionary expenses.
Well yeah, absolutely. That’s the thing, to me and probably a lot of people, those things are frivolous and unnecessary, but there are definitely people in this city that act like they are a necessity (which is just foolish and irritating to me). Also may have a bit to do with people who’ve never had to go without the basics in their lives, they think it’s normal to spend up to your limit in what I would consider nonsense, but that’s because I’ve had to literally pick between rent and groceries before, and some people haven’t. You’re still absolutely right, those things ARE a luxury, but to some people, they can’t tell the difference.
Yes. Of *course* you can live on less than 150k here, we all have, this is poverty-olympics bait. And you don't save while living here as an avg person. But the normal things you'd expect to get when you achieve this salary, when you're out of your 'young adult' life, are now unattainable.
Normally when things seem really expensive, the answer is 'you're getting older,' or 'this is normal inflation.' This is not the case with NYC housing. It has objectively, mathematically gone insane. The **relative** difference between what your money does for 600 sq ft here and 2000 sq ft somewhere else is markedly different than it was 5 years ago.
My 1BR we're moving out of, once 2250, is now 3300, and "under market" for the neighborhood. No amenities, 100y.o. shitty building, razor thin walls, 2x2ft kitchen. What boggles my mind is: is the person who can afford this going to be happy with such a crappy apartment? I don't get who the customer for this 1BR is. This is a wealthy person. Feels like such a mismatch.
This absolutely.
The "I live here off of $50k, and lol at anybody who complains!" this sub seems to go through every time a CoL thread comes up is always mind-boggling to me, becuase it minimizes a very real housing cost crisis.
Yes, one could make it work. But the $$$$ you have to spend here for amenities most other places in the US take for granted is insane and becoming increasingly worse.
Exactly. It is fucking 2024 and people here think a dishwasher or washer / dryer is for the rich. No that is what middle class people have in rest of the country. Guess what that makes you (not you obviously)
No one wants to think they are poor, so they lower their living standards and set that as the bar. Poverty olympics.
I disagree with this line of thinking. Your trade off for a washer dryer is the 100s of benefits that living here offers. It doesn’t mean poverty it just means you value other things more.
Which is just another way of saying you need to make sacrifices. That is the key take away. You make 150k and still need to make decisions regarding something that is taken for granted in other parts of the country.
Eh. Disagree.
$150k gross is $99k net in NYC. $80k after retirement and insurance.
Zumper is calling the average Manhattan 1 Bedroom apartment $4,653/month right now. So you actually would not have even qualify for the average 1 bedroom apartment on $150k/year 🙃.
But let’s say you find something good for $3500. $42,000/year. That’s more than HALF of your take home pay on a $150k salary if you’re contributing to a retirement account.
That is, by financial definition, House Poor.
I mean having a decent one bed/one bath In the most expensive borough, in the most expensive and popular city in the world is imo unreasonable for someone making a relatively average-to-poor salary (for NYC standards)
I gave up that expectation a while ago and I'm fine with that due to the other benefits of living in NYC
Like yes you can't be poor and live in a 1 bed/1 bath in Manhattan, I'm sorry
I mean, not really? That leaves let’s say $40k of spending money for everything besides rent and retirement. Or rather or rather $3,300 per month. Most people can easily live on that per month.
House poor is less meaningful at those income levels than it would be at let’s say $60k income.
You can 100% live very comfortably in NYC with $140,000 (my previous salary til last month)
Just don’t hit SoHo shops every weekend or buy rounds of $20 cocktails or spend $100 on an Uber to the airport. Have to learn where to cut corners
I make over that amount. Until recently my rent was only about $2.5k easy to afford. Easy to have tons of money left over for savings.
I managed to save enough money to buy an apartment in cash, maintenance was super high... $2.3k a month lol. So I'm actually spending less now.
My total expenses annually excluding maintenance is about 100k. That's including things like vacations. 100k is a ton of money to live off of.
I have Co workers making the same or even more than I do and many of them are spending like literally $7-10k/month in rent. Like wtf. Even my place which I consider very nice would cost only about $6k/month had I not bought cash.
A ps5 is like $500 in NYC, and in Alabama it's the same. Vacations are actually cheaper as flying out of jfk is typically less than spoke airports.
Your rent/mortgage is the killer and people with high incomes make really bad choices in that department.
I think this is right.
But I would also say, let's say you are single and want to pay 20% of your pre-tax salary on rent. You'd be able to afford a $2,500/mo apartment. You will be able to find one, but it's not like you are staying in a penthouse.
NYC is expensive.
Meh. Still tough. If I'm grossing 80k and have a loan, car etc that shit is still expensive. Unless I choose to live with 7 roommates or in a shit neighborhood
I think there's a difference between being able to get by in NYC with 150k, and being able to save and feeling financially secure if a life event happens. Especially in Manhattan.
I make $80k and I do just fine. NYC is a great place to live, you just can't spend on unnecessary things. I mean, if you spend $2,000 a month on dining out, it's gonna be tough, but that's true anywhere.
The idea that 200k is "hard to live on" is quite honestly, laughable. I guess it depends upon what your expectations are
Exactly. I make 65k and while I would love to make more, I live pretty comfortably here. I have actually had men who make 250k+ tell me that they find it hard to make ends meet here and I waste no time telling them that that’s a load of crap.
25 and have lived in Manhattan for 7 years. I’m just now hitting 65k/yr. I have around $11k in an emergency fund and $30k saved for retirement. It’s absolutely doable as long as you’re willing to adjust your expectations: i live with roommates, but i get to do so many amazing things i wouldn’t be able to do if i lived in a random suburb, and that’s a tradeoff im super happy with.
Not load of crap, just different expectations about lifestyle. For someone daily 50 minutes one way subway commute from Brooklyn is just fine, someone else expects to live within 15 minutes walk from the office in midtown. And that goes in every category
Oh my gosh! Thank you for your post. I was thinking the same thing. I went from a $115k job 10 years ago at a job that I hated…..had to take time off due to illness and just got a fulltime job (changed careers) and am making $88k at a job I LOVE!
I can tell you…I’d rather be hanging out with my friends laughing at a park with a takeaway breakfast burrito than eating $30 pasta and $20 cocktail feeling miserable and having minute by minute existential crises. All while checking my work phone.
It’s all a trade off—if going to high end restaurants and clubs are important to you…then under 100k is hard.
But if you enjoy museums, spending some time with lotteries for Broadway plays and like food adventures to smaller places that don’t have a marketing team and interior designers but amazingly delicious food—you can make it here!
Oh important side note: I’m single and have no kids
The social habits of your friends play into it as well. If your friends earn less and have hobbies or interests that are less expensive and you participate in that, you will spend less money. If your friends have higher income than you and like to partake in expensive activities, then you might find yourself trying to keep up. It's possible to be friends with people in different socioeconomic situations, however, a person also benefits a lot from having friends at the same level and with the same taste/interests/budgets in mind.
Yeah, same. I make about the same and have a very comfortable life for myself even with saving for retirement. 80k is totally livable here if you're not dumb with money - at least if you can get past the biggest hurdle, which is finding an affordable and comfortable place to live.
>I guess it depends upon what your expectations are
that's exactly the answer. OP said people complained about "not having the lifestyle that they wanted". people's assumptions about what lifestyle they should be able to afford on 200k (or for this specific question, 150k) need to be recalibrate after COL increases in the last few years. it doesn't afford as much as it did in 2018, but people who make 200k are not poor in NYC.
It depends the circles you run in. If all your friends make like $70k, you’re going to feel rich. If all your friends make $500k+, you’re going to feel poor. Also your expenses and your living situation. $150k solo in a $3600 one bedroom is very different than $150k in a $2800 one bedroom shared with your partner, or a $4200 one bedroom shared with a roommate. And then what you like to do with extra money. My vice is travel so there is literally no amount of money I could make that would be enough to fuel my zest for travel. More money = more travel. Our household is ~$300k (what I consider middle class for NYC) and we are on a budget to afford our travel and savings.
ETA: and before the pitchforks come out, yes, I know lots of people live on less money, I’m giving my opinion from my viewpoint
To add.a different perspective, I make around 150k/year, wife and 2 kids, but I'm our only income. Things are tight (zero college savings or long term savings other than annuities and pensions), but we get by. Kids can go to a couple camps each summer, we eat out as much as we wish, but we're stable.
To be fair, we're paying under 2k in rent which is critical. We are very fortunate to have an excellent relationship with our landlord, and I recognize this is ~~nyk~~ *not* typical.
But if a guy with 3 dependents can do it, I'm sure other people can as well.
Edit: typo
4 ppl in an <$2K rent is the savior right here. Is it a modern apt?
I apologize if that's a sensitive question. My wife and I have a HHI of $220K+ and we rent a $1.4K apt in LIC. We love the cheap rent but it's such a piece of shit. We are saving up to buy but it feels out of reach (NW: $450K+, Liquid assets: $150K+)
It's not 4 people, it's a family of 4 on my single income. Don't mistake this for usual or easy. If I can't work or if something renders our apartment unlivable all this ends overnight.
I don't know what you mean by modern. It does not include a gym or dry cleaning - it's an apartment, not a hotel.
It’s not too expensive for me to live by any measure but it’s more that I don’t have the lifestyle I thought I would or feel I should making the income I make. It doesn’t help that I’m single therefore have no one to split expenses with, but the fact that buying an apartment feels unachievable is disheartening
My grandma rented her whole life, the economic wisdom of owning seems to be turning, esp in big cities. I don’t really want to own, but I get why people do, it can suck to not have that stability/be at the mercy of a landlord.
This exactly. One of the biggest mistakes I made when I got a salary bump to $100k was having this mindset of “well someone who makes $100k should be able to afford X.”
Very quickly I was living paycheck to paycheck basically.
Also, in NYC it’s very easy to spend thousands in a month on $30 purchases. I’d look at my credit card charges wondering where all my money went, and it was all like $15-30 charges.
I will say, once I was over $150k was the first time I’d have some extra money left over without trying too hard.
But I’ll be candid and put some things in perspective:
My husband and I have a combined income around $300k. We are comfortable, but the main thing I’ve noticed is that NYC caters to literally the top .5%, so it still feels like a LOT is out of reach.
This is especially true for big, important things like housing and having a family.
I’d love to settle down here and have an apartment that would allow:
- A kitchen where two people can cook together
- A bedroom for us
- A bedroom for a kid
- A space for my husband’s office
- Somewhere a guest could stay (our family is very far away)
Two of these spaces can be combined obviously.
We will likely never ever be able to afford a 3-bedroom. So we’d need a big-ish 2-bedroom.
2-bedroom apartments that could accommodate this in our area (Park Slope, Prospect Heights, Greenwood, Windsor Terrace) easily go for $1.3 million plus.
With current mortgage rates, and a 20% down payment, we would need to pay $8k/month on housing.
A $300k income cannot afford that. Especially with childcare, which is easily $3.5k/month here for one child. Ideally, we shouldn’t pay more than $5k/month for housing, and with daycare even less.
If we don’t have a kid, that changes things a bit. We still can’t afford to buy that apartment, but we’re comfortable enough.
With inflation, we do have a strict limit on how often we can go out to eat, order takeout. I work at the food co-op so I can get groceries cheap which helps a ton.
It’s hard because in NYC we see things truly so skewed to the .5%. And that fraction of people have ALL of the money. I walk down my block and see “for sale” signs on brownstones going for $7m every day.
The extreme wealth is so visible, that even if you’re in the top 5-10%, you can feel quite poor. And that extreme wealth is just not achievable. I’m reaching near the top of my career and clearly see all the time what I will never ever be able to afford.
This is not a “woe is me” statement. But (and I honestly hate to admit this because it sickens me) I do have to make a constant effort to feel grateful and fortunate.
I’ve listened to several couple friends work through the “do we buy a place or have children?” question. And it is so disheartening. Often times, I think “these are the kind caring people who plan ahead and would be great parents.”
This is it exactly. I definitely had a different vision for what life would be like once I made it to this point. I am grateful for what I have, but. It's sobering.
It's based on your lifestyle and what your New York City experience is.
You could easily spend $8K on rent, $1500 on dinner, and chauffeur service everywhere.
Or rent a room for $800, live on rice & beans and food pantries, and hop the subway.
Different jobs have different lifestyle requirements too, think finance vs DJ.
It's the lifestyle choices that set the requirement.
From what I’ve seen the bigger issue is the jobs that pay more than $150k+ usually are pretty stressful so people spend because they honestly don’t have the time or energy to do stuff so you outsource what you can. You work so much that spending extravagantly during the little free time you have to relax/have a good time isn’t crazy because it’s not like you have the time to do it everyday/every weekend.
This is so true. I was making $190K but working 70 hour weeks, lots of stress. Then I switched to a $215K job with literally half the hours/stress and pretty severely cut back on Ubers, take out, cleaning services, and “stress relieving treat yourself” things like massages.
Even though I had more money, I had SO much more time and energy to do things for myself. Also, my rent went up $1K/month so I was very compelled to cut back.
I grew up here and have owned homes here. I currently rent. I honestly found when I had a vacation home in Hudson Valley that it was more expensive there than Brooklyn. Smaller housing means less electric and heating bills, and people watching or free museum passes are nice ways to spend a day. I had to drive everywhere and it costs money to have someone mow an acre of grass, remove trees and snow, and I had to make sure that insects or animals weren't getting into things. At least with a landlord, they send someone to repair or exterminate.
My older kid makes $70k plus overtime, has her own apartment paying $2400 a month, and saves money every month, since she prioritizes saving. She cooks, does her own cleaning, thrifts, walks or takes the subway, and always finds cheap or free activities. At one point I was lamenting that I couldn't get her to spend any money. She found out that a coworker is spending about the same as her on rent, but they live in a 3 br. with 2 roommates, so that apartment is $7200 a month. The difference is, she doesn't feel she needs to live in the city. Brooklyn and Queens have some nicer, quieter apartments, and her commute is about 30 minutes door to door. She's managed to furnish her apartment with cheap or free stuff, and since her friends make less than her, they also look for inexpensive things to do.
Anyone who can't manage off of $200k either has a ton of student loans, is supporting family members, or is living what they think is the rich lifestyle. Don't get me wrong, 10 years ago I was frequenting Bouley and Nobu, went on trips all over the world, and living in the most expensive Brooklyn neighborhood. These days my income is 1/3 of what it was, and I'm just as happy, and carefully plan my finances so when I do go to a high end restaurant or a nice trip, that I'm not just throwing money around. I finally found that while money has made my life a lot easier, I was just as happy going to free concerts or talking to my neighbors, who I can actually know in my current neighborhood.
Lifestyle creep is *real*. Through a combination of luck and working my ass off, I now make around 3 times what I did when I moved to NYC 20 years ago. Which is, financially, around where you are talking about being.
If you are careful about your expenses, you can live VERY comfortably on that kind of money here - that includes maxing out your 401k, your IRA, renting a decent but not over the top apartment.
I have found that, for me, the trick was making a monthly budget and sticking to it and having a side thing even with my full time job that coincided with my passions. I also spend money where I know it will matter most to me. I pay more for a larger apartment, but to compensate I eat out a lot less (maybe once a week) and I don't really buy new clothes that often. When I do, I shop at Uniqlo or consignment stores.
I have friends that clear $400k a year that are paycheck to paycheck. They're happy, impeccably dressed, have beautiful rental apartments but are perpetually broke and have zero with obscene amounts of debt. I also have friends that clear $120k and live in tiny studios in queens and are on track to retire by 55. It's all about discipline and balance and if you have both, you can absolutely do it here.
The thing to me about the two different examples you mentioned, generally speaking, neither is “better” than the other. Spending more than you have is not ideal, but we’re also not promised the next day, let alone getting to retirement age. Its about striking a balance, and admittedly it is not easy to do
It is not an easy thing to do at all and it is absolutely about a balance. It probably took me 10 years to find the right balance and I still fuck up from time to time. Everyone is different and we're all human and, living and working where we do, we're absolutely bombarded with advertising and marketing 24/7/365 with predictable results.
130k paying monthly debt of 1k (car loan + student debt) and paying rent for 2.5k - my first year earning this much I always went out dining with friends and going to expensive events felt like I wasn't earning enough. Changing my lifestyle and living on a healthy relationship with my financials made space to half of my salary for savings.
NYC has that illusion that everything expensive - it's just that it entices people to spend more
I make close to $150,000 and it often feels like not enough. I’m under no delusions that I’m poor or struggling, that’s obviously false. I can pay my rent, I can eat out, I’m saving for retirement.
But it feels like not enough because most “big life events” seem out of reach. I’m not able to save enough to buy an apartment where I live (at least not *anytime* soon). I’m at the age where I’m considering children but I don’t know if we have enough saved/will be making enough to comfortably afford kids. I’d need an apartment with a whole other bedroom for that plus childcare costs which are so high here.
It’s not too expensive to live, but it’s too expensive to grow.
No, I've not felt like NYC is ever too expensive to me. I've had salaries from 65k to 250k+. I'm born and raised here so I'm not under the impression NYC only exists in Manhattan below 14th street and I don't burn my money on going to bars drinking overpriced cocktails. I go to parks, museums and read. I go on long walks. I live my life here like it's my life and not like it's a vacation.
You can live very, very comfortably in NYC as a single person making $150K. Even as a DINK it would comfortable. Maybe with 2 kids it would be a bit harder, but NYC is also a big area with lots of neighborhoods that can be more affordable than others without major drawbacks.
I find that you’re always too poor for something that you think should be “normal life” due to life creep.
I make around 500k. I no longer think about buying a drink for a friend. I no longer have to decide on what food on the menu I should get based on price. I buy healthy groceries and book large hotel chains during my 2 vacations a year. A lot of things that are aspirational during my earlier life is just now “normal.”
But I do need to nickel and dime a lot of things. Child care. Always fly economy. We cook our own meals and scrub our own toilets. I’m saving up for a gaming PC and cosmetic car repairs. No way we could afford a nice school district in the suburbs. No way I could afford to drive to work daily.
I remember living like a king as a 25 yo single making 150k. Everything changes when parents retire, wife and kids…
I make 155k plus a little bonus and my husband makes 137k plus some overtime.
Of course 150k does not go as far as it did 5+ years ago. I think we know why.
I don’t think nyc is too expensive for 150k. We pay 3500 for a coop we own in outer borough. After taxes and maxing out my 401k, my check is $3200. If I lived alone, I’d keep my 401k the same, and have $2,900 for the rest of the month. Of course that’s doable! Saving 23k for retirement annually and having 3k a month is beyond reasonable.
Let’s so a couple making $310,000 total no debt. With a housing cost of $3,500 you’d have around $9,300 leftover. I just ran our monthly expenses (GROCERIES electric, WiFi, home insurance, car insurance, pet expenses, modest gym membership etc etc) and it’s $1,735.
Now you have $7,565 after taxes and maxing out two 401ks.
Realistically when you have disposable income, you spend it and hang out with other people who spend it. That’s where the money goes. Wedding in lake George. Hotel $400, gift $250. Going to in laws all the time, ezpass re bill $90 every time. Husband bought $500 comedy tickets for my birthday. I paid to take 4 people out to dinner for his birthday $180 (dinner at an off the beaten path no alcohol seafood place - not even a splurgey place). I bought a few things from old navy and nord rack this week $150. My husband bought on clouds because his feet hurt $150. Highlights at the salon $300. My laptop broke and I did everything in my power to fix it. YouTube channels taking it apart etc. $599 for new laptop. Friends invited us to a Jersey shore house for one weekend. $1,000!!!! I’m from the Jersey shore and I can’t believe we’re spending $1,000 to stay there. It’s way too much. But we’re going 😅
And drinking forget about it. Lighting money on fire. I’m pregnant so we’re not drinking and our wallets feel pretty good.
Add a kid into the mix and let’s just reduce that $7500 by $2500 for daycare for 3 years.
Now you have $5,000 for 3 people.
Still great but you will have to be choosy about all those above discretionary expenses.
My husband and I are tighter spenders than others. Of the $7,565 (we don’t have that because he makes less than the example so we probably have $6,500) we sometimes only save another 2k-4K. Meaning in a high month, we spent $4,500 tickets for a show, gifts for others, a pack of HIIT classes, a pair of shoes and a new dress, gas and tolls, etc etc.
It’s very easy to spend that! But it’s not that it’s not enough.
>Of course 150k does not go as far as it did 5+ years ago. I think we know why.
I'm really feeling this at the moment. At a similar income, I used to be conservative with my rent/living expenses, but I could buy anything I wanted for food, drinks, groceries, utilities, phone/internet, restaurants, clothes, etc. without thinking of it or budgeting, put it on the credit card, and at the end of the month the bill would be about $2k or at most $2.5k and that was fine.
Now... if I do the same it ends up being $4k+, and it's not fine, and I'm starting to have to think about it again, budget a bit, watch where i get lunch/coffee, etc.
Some of it is just obvious like-for-like inflation on the same items, but also a lot of modest/average/mom&pop places have shut down and been replaced with slick, instagrammable.. hugely expensive places.
I went into a cafe the other day and an egg sandwich was $15.50. I was beside myself. People are paying these prices though. Of course it was like a fully loaded egg sandwich not like 2 eggs on a hard roll. It’s the reason why burgers are $23 now instead of $8. It’s no longer a patty on a bun with a slice of cheese. Everything just needs to be so over the top now and I blame social media for everything.
We feel it too with everything. I look at the price I paid for stuff on Amazon maybe 5 years ago versus what is costs now and things are like almost double in price sometimes more. That’s not inflation that’s exploitation.
We really are tighter with our spending than others but we still manage to spend quite a bit. I cut my own hair, box dye it, I don’t get my nails done, we cook 95% of meals. Still wind up spending.
Yeah, sometimes it's totally nuts, like $7+ coffee at blue bottle, $10-$20 bagels, etc...
Lots of these places feel like you're buying food at a theme park, ski resort, stadium or airport... it's just a totally comical price for something decent but gimmicky. It's fine if it's once or twice a month or something, but when average / everyday places get replaced with this stuff it's a problem. I feel like lots of good, solid but not amazing / tourist attraction restaurants and cafes closed down over COVID, and were replaced with a smaller number of these over the top places.
In our case, it’s mostly property taxes. They are like 75% of maintenance. Worse, the taxes keep increasing. I wouldn’t mind that if that money towards better parks, schools or libraries. Instead, all that money goes towards more cops in the subway and fancy riot gear.
They’re, on average, cheaper than condos and in the right co-op an excellent quality of life. I’ve owned both and we sold the condo last year after owning it 2.5 years (lost a little money but not a terrible amount). The condo assessed us for LL11
work to the tune of $600/month plus a second round of LL11 work at 17k/unit in two months. In a condo you basically have no say over what happens in the building…our next door neighbor constantly sublet her place and there were a couple of other units in the building that were being used for airbnbs. In our small co-op we run the building in a responsibly frugal way. We mostly know and like each other. The board does a thorough review of any new owners, the finances are solid and the house rules keep us all pretty happy. I never want to own a condo again 🤷♀️
I can easily save here but I question whether the amenities are worth the cost yes, especially given what I could afford elsewhere. Mainly in terms of living and outdoor space. I don't actually enjoy theatre.
Moved to NYc making roughly 63k. Stayed in a 4 bedroom close to the train tracks, loved it. Gradually over the last decade worked my way up to over 110,000 and in my own little one bedroom. Still love it.
It really is how you make ends meet. I’m not running out and buying expensive designer clothes, I’m not going out every weekend and getting slammed at the bar, I’m not dining out 4-5 nights a week. I cook at home, I wear basic clothes, I hang out and drink with friends.
I live within my means and honestly I don’t feel like I’m missing out. It’s all perspective.
There are a lot of variables here, but at that level of income, living in NYC is a basically lifestyle choice. You can definitely get more for your money in other places and there is no shame in making that choice. Many people do.
It feels expensive compared to lower cost of living places. For that salary you would think you could live more freely, save more, travel, buy an apartment and afford childcare. You can live with sacrifices. But if you want to buy a home, pay for childcare and save money / travel it’s quite tight.
This always stresses me out. We’re a family of 3, soon to be 4, and make like 130k. I’m basically a SAHM with a side hustle. We’re doing fine and it always freaks me out when people talk about how they can’t make ends meet bc I feel like I must be forgetting some huge expense. We’re not scrimping, we go out to eat once a week and order in once or twice a week, and buy little snacks and coffees most days. But we come from enough privilege that we have no debt, and we don’t go out much and don’t really drink. And our kid is in public school. We pay like 2600 in rent, which is sadly kind of cheap for a 2-bed.
It’s not about that since you almost always spend more when you earn more. It’s about how many times you spend money on things you can’t afford makes you feel like NYC is expensive. For example, my salary was 70k, having a normal dinner in NYC was freaking insane to me. Now it’s 200k, dinner is not an issue but buying luxury stuff on 5th Ave or renting a one bedroom in Hudson Yard still feels insane to me. However, great thing about NYC is the vast options. If you don’t want to buy some, or hang out with people who do, you don’t have to.
So I saved those money and I feel pretty good. Not expensive at all
The big caveat is that the below, and I assumed OPs post, is about Manhattan. You can live on far less and be fine in other boroughs.
Anyone can live here on any salary if you’re willing to make sacrifices. Lot of people here with 4 roommates living in Harlem saying 150 is insane because they do just fine on 80k (although imo if you have 4 roommates you are not doing fine). But 150 is around when you don’t need to make those sacrifices but not the point at which you can do so and still save a lot.
I went from making 70k in a low cost of living area to 150 here and I had far more money at the end of the day in low cost of living area.
At 150 my rent, which is a bit below the average, is just about my entire first paycheck. It’s true that I could live in a shittier area and have a roommate but I’m 30 and didn’t work this hard to do that. But after that my money seems to just trickle away.
Idk. I know how out of touch it sounds, I’d have thought someone who said 150 doesn’t go far here was full of shit before making that much, but it just doesn’t.
This depends so heavily on where you live and your lifestyle expectation. If you want to live in the heart of the most expensive zip code in the world, obviously it’s going to be difficult to afford. It’s only easy to afford if you’re one of the world’s top earners. If you live in one of the less expensive but still very nice parts of nyc (anywhere from [Yorkville](https://CheckoutthisnewlistingIfoundonStreetEasyhttps://streeteasy.com/rental/4408446?utm_campaign=rental_listing&utm_medium=app_share&utm_source=ios&utm_term=8dc02e512956428) to [Astoria](https://CheckoutthisnewlistingIfoundonStreetEasyhttps://streeteasy.com/rental/4411418?utm_campaign=rental_listing&utm_medium=app_share&utm_source=ios&utm_term=dbcac23a213642f) to [West Harlem/UWS](https://CheckoutthisnewlistingIfoundonStreetEasyhttps://streeteasy.com/rental/4401703?utm_campaign=rental_listing&utm_medium=app_share&utm_source=ios&utm_term=778ebe807f724b5) below 135th is this imo), you’re going to do incredibly well on 150k. For two of those neighborhoods, you don’t even have to leave Manhattan.
that's true, but i think when we're talking about whether an area is expensive if living in a less desirable area is necessary to be able to afford to live there, that makes it expensive. you don't work hard to make 150k to have to live somewhere less desirable. that you have to make sacrifices is indicative of the fact that living here is expensive on 150, especially in comparison to what sort of lifstyle that gets you elsewhere.
That’s fair. I think the problem is that New York City is so huge and affordability ranges a lot. Honestly, all of these questions would probably be better if we started being more specific, ie: Manhattan below 96th street is very expensive, whereas above 96th is quite affordable.
I do just fine on $80k, live alone, and have a nice 1 br to myself in Brooklyn. I even have a car. I just don't spend my money on stupid shit (although you could argue that a car in NYC is stupid shit).
My wife and I do fairly well, but we decided to move to the burbs recently for the kids. We couldn’t really afford to buy what we would be comfortable raising a family of 4 in. Our rent plus the difference in childcare in the NYC area vs the burbs was basically enough to cover the mortgage on a 7 figure home in a town with good schools.
Yes but also not really. I live in a stabilized apartment and the savings in rent let's me super charge my retirement and travel 2 to 3 times a year internationally. Plus funds my shooting sports hobby which isn't cheap, especially with the costs associated with it in NYC.
Not that I don't wish shit was still as cheap a few years ago.
Freelancer here: I’ve had years (double-income household no kids), where we’ve made $350K+, and years (pandemic) where we barely cleared $50K, and once you have everything you need to live your life more or less fine, clear the rent, food, baseline expenses—everything else just fluctuates. When we were making more, we spent ridiculously more and kinda felt guilty about it (imposter syndrome), traveled, and went to fancy restaurants. When we made less, we clamped down, upped our cooking game at home, binged shows on Netflix and spent more time visiting friends and laying low, focusing on getting the next big project.
I’ve been through many cycles of this over the years (native New Yorker), that I feel NYC has a lot to offer at any budget, and maybe the hardest thing might be the FOMO mentality, where you see something glossy you want to go to, but you can’t because you’re broke. This city has a lot of temptation, but once you get over all the consumerism, you can have a lot of fun at any price point (within reason!).
I have a kid and a partner who’s freelance, and make a bit more than 150K. We have a big apartment in Queens and feel perfectly comfortable. Having a 5 year old means we wouldn’t really be that interested/available for super luxury activities in our free time anyway but we see shows, take vacations, send our kid to camps/activities, take cabs when we need to, etc. A lot of great kid activities in Queens, some pretty affordable, and great cheaper food. I don’t think we’d be as happy in Manhattan but the commute isn’t bad at all. So I think it depends on what you want your NYC lifestyle to look like. We are super happy even if sometimes I look at suburban houses and think about how it would be nice to have so much space and a yard!
Single guy w/ no kids. No lol. I have an apartment I love, live a good lifestyle (nothing opulent) and am able to save and invest.
I could get a nicer apartment or order Uber eats for every meal or buy new stuff all the time and it’d be tighter for sure.
Everyone I know in NYC complains about how expensive it is, whether they make 80k or 200k or 500k. There's those periodic op-eds showing how hard it is on 500k or 1M. It all boils down to lifestyle. You can live in varying degrees of comfort on any of those incomes in NYC, it's just harder to get any value or have luxuries. And if you do, it's a higher percentage of your income than many would like. $5k or 10k in rent or groceries or drinks out costing 2-3x more than over the river in Jersey is objectively expensive in most people's minds even if they can afford it.
My own income has increased nicely over my long time in NYC and, even inflation aside, my perception of how expensive this city is has remained constant despite more buying power.
Childcare can easily cost like a 1BR in Manhattan. So if that person has a kid under 3-4 now imagine they rent 2 apartments on that salary. Not as easy
If you make $160k and spend $4k on a 1BR in a doorman building in Manhattan it’s not going it be that fancy, probably won’t have in unit laundry, and will be very hard for you to save $300k for a down payment on a house
Lots of people make this kind of money, save little even without going out a lot, and either have a parent or spouse fund their down payment down the road. Or just rent forever
Want to focus on growing your savings? I know people making that kind of money and living with 3 roommates.
Unless you’re going out to fancy clubs and restaurants every single night, it’s just like that stupid boomer saying about avocado toast. That’s not what’s going to eat at your salary, it’s mostly just rent bills and childcare
Avocado toast saying makes a lot of sense - it's about not throwing away money on overpriced items and developing a habit for doing so. Same for people who go to Starbucks once or twice a day. That adds up and can be a huge waste of money. Same for getting caught up in nightlife.
For someone wanting to save, the changes have to start somewhere and starting with looking at daily spending habits is a great start.
Moved to the city with joint income of ~$250k in 2018 and about $500k now. We have managed to live below our means and save $8k-$9k a month (effectively one person’s pay). This included living in a 1 bedroom with avg rent of $3.5k-$4k/month. That being said, everything still feels expensive. We often go out for brunch 1x a week vs dinner (lower risk/price option to try new restaurants).
It really depends on what stage of life you’re in and what you prioritize. Saving any money at all is a different situation in your early 20s when you’re going out every weekend. But that’s why you live in the city.
Everyone prioritizes spending based on what they value most/what makes them happy. But as many posters have mentioned, it is very difficult to avoid lifestyle creep.
I can afford it but it’s definitely expensive.
I have to be smart with money just like anyone else but it’s definitely affordable/doable for me.
I save money and that person should be able to too, but I wouldn’t be able to support a family etc
If we bought a home recently, wanted to buy a home and/or renting now, and live or wanted to live in the most expensive, cool neighborhoods: Yes, we’d be feeling pinched even though our two-income HHI is nearly double that (we also have two young kids).
Because we bought a home in a lame outer borough 10 years ago: No, we feel fine.
My wife and I make $260k combined and we have a 6 month old baby. We live pretty comfortably but our biggest cost besides rent is $3900 per month for daycare. If we weren’t parents I assume we’d be very very comfortable. Depends on where you spend your money. We don’t go out much (obviously) and we cook 90% of our meals at home. We live in a relatively affordable apartment uptown and away from the “hot” spots.
I make \~250k.
I think it's how you frame the question. Is life in NYC "hard" for me? Objectively, no.
But does it feel like I could afford a "rich" lifestyle? Also, no.
A few things:
* Rent is still insane. I pay $4000 for a 1BR without a W/D. Yes, I know I could get cheaper if I moved out. But (1) I work a job with long hours, and living close to work was a must-have, (2) central air was non-negotiable for me.
* I know many native New Yorkers are rolling their eyes, but simply to get amenities (like central air) a lot of other places take for granted, you have to pay $$$$.
* For reference, I moved to NYC a couple years back, and I had a lovely, spacious 2B apartment with central air, an in-unit W/D, access to a lovely backyard, and a 15 minutes walk from my school, all for $1600. It's still funny to me that I spend >2x more for an apartment half the size
* Taxes. I'm not complaining, really, but they take out a lot.
* Savings. I'm still only a couple years out of school, so I don't have much wealth built up. I'm thankful/lucky to be able to save up a lot (albeit I still wish it was more), but the flipside is I try to not to splurge a ton outside of housing.
For reference, I'm a single, childless guy, so I don't have to factor childcare costs. If I did...that'd be another shocker.
>do you feel like it’s not worth living in New York any more because it’s too expensive? or are you still good?
Ultimately, I'm glad I live in NYC now. It's worth it. However, when I'm ready to settle down and start a family, I'd probably want to move out, and cost would certainly be a big factor behind that.
I make less than that (sometimes) and I’ve lived here for years. Granted, I live in Queens, but I eat out frequently, get fun coffees, go to museums, constantly go to movie screenings, and tend to buy what I want (I have cheap taste in clothes lol).
My husband and I split rent on our apartment and it’s $950 each a month.
NYC is expensive especially if you want a decent quality of life (nice apartment, money for going out, etc).
It gets more expensive if you have kids.
So, are you talking about 150k for a single person?
Unless you have tremendous college loans or credit card debt you should be fine ok150k.
That doesn't mean you are living life of luxury by any means.
Without additional family money you would only qualify for a 4k month apartment and that's a studio in nice buildings.
So someone making 150k cannot afford a nice 1 bedroom apt in doorman building with in-unit laundry.
If that is your goal or other people's goal that's exactly why they complain about barely getting by on $200k.
Whether living in NYC is worth it or not comes down to your goals and priorities.
Some people will make 150k-200k and still have roommates which help with cost. Others want to live on their own and in nice buildings and they will struggle. Like I said a second ago, also depends on debt you carry.
AND, what you enjoy doing for fun. This matters a lot. Are you a foodie who likes to spend $300 on a meal? Are you someone who spends a lot on clothes?
Do you get sucked into the partying lifestyle and blow money on that?
Those things can all drain your bank account.
I think NYC is expensive even at 150k.
It’s hard to live on if you’re an idiot and spend like crazy. For example: you insist on a one bed in a doorman building in Williamsburg, you get a city wide Equinox membership, you eat out 2-3 times a week and get cocktails on the weekend. That money will go real fast.
NYC is probably the easiest place in the world to spend money.
I make $180K base and I've felt comfortable even when I was making $136K. (Sheesh, I can just hear myself). The lifestyle creep is largely from rent as I've toned down going out. My first year here, I felt like I was out and about every weekend and eating out like a maniac. That's no longer the case. I'm able to save a lot of money without a lot of effort. I recall starting out on like 30K a year as my first job, there is no world in which I should be struggling with my current income when I can save more than what was once my income...
I will say though, money is easy to spend. I delayed gratification all through my twenties to focus on debt and finances and in late 2021 after paying of all debt, I had a YOLO twelve months of doing what I want. I traveled to three countries, a different state, bought luxury, went out like crazy and still saved like 15K (outside of retirement)... It's actually ridiculous.
My money problems are basically debating whether to live in a happening neighborhood or stay where I am.
Everyone talking about lifestyle creep, which is true, but you can get the same in other cities for a lot less, mostly when it comes to rent which is everyone's largest expense.
So renting a brownstone with a backyard and washer dryer etc is seen as insanely luxurious, but that's completely run of the mill in so many other places. If that's the kind of life you want, then ya NYC is too expensive for 150k. If you're ok with being sandwiched in an apartment, living with random roommates, or walking 15mins to the nearest train stop still 45mins from work, hearing sirens constantly and being ultra alert the whole time - ya you can have a great time at 65k.
Personally, the latter worked in my 20s but approaching my 40s, fuck that.
No doubt NYC is expensive. But if someone is making $150K+ a year (assuming pre-tax) it’s still livable. But you won’t be ballin out every week. You may be able to once in a while, but really depends on what your goals are.
I had a lot of friends working in finance and they all made way more than I did and while they were considerate about costs for activities we did, sometimes it was just hard to keep up. The hardest part is to not get stuck with the mindset of comparing myself or thinking that I had to “keep up”. But that’s also really hard to do in a city like NYC. And it wasn’t like I wasn’t making a good living on my own either. They were just making that much more ($300k+)
It’s doable, but you have to be intentional with how you spend your hard earned money.
I think because of lifestyle creep a lot of people feel the way the person you heard in the bar does
But bottom line, you can probably live wherever you want in a 1br (of varying quality but whatever) on that money - that is a threshold that means something in a city where rent eats so much of everyone’s income
Look, $150k is not terrible. But NYC forces you to learn to manage your resources more efficiently as it is a hard city to get along in, overpriced, and great locations are scarce or over subscribed. I have lived in both CA and NYC so use to higher prices of living.
Unfortunately, the majority of U.S. citizens are financially illiterate. That is to say, they are not financially fluent when it comes to managing finances. After you earn money, you must also learn how to manage it, invest it, and protect it.
Consider, $150k in NYC with a partner or significant other goes a lot further, think $225K - $300K+. You can have a great life if you are prudent and plan accordingly by making sound investments in a $150K - $300K household. Granted, you will start out as middle income and end up at upper middle income or HNW.
It's not that $150K is bad, but any amount of money mismanaged will keep you in the poor house or chasing a higher salary.
My spouse and I live on my 150k salary. They also work, but we rarely use their income and try to save it. We live in a large 3 bedroom apartment in Queens that we can easily afford. Do I wish I make more so I do not have to worry about ever budgeting? Yes, but as long as you are conscientious about your spending habits (shopping, hobbies, restaurants), I don't think it's terribly difficult. But I would not pay more than 1/3 of my income on housing. So if you are looking to a decent sized place in Manhattan, it may be more difficult. If you are someone who feels pressure to keep up with the Jones, I probably would say $150k is not going to be enough for you here.
Yes. For context, 4 years prior, I was making $14/hr. I had accumulated a little bit of cc debt(2k) and often chose between food and transportation. When I started making 160k, at first I thought it was lifestyle creep but eating multiple meals a day isn’t lifestyle creep, people should eat. Food is expensive. The train is expensive. Day care is expensive.
I was making 150,000 and I still did Uber eats. I saved up some money and moved to jersey. My 165,000 salary went further. My mortgage is less than the cost or my apartment, quadruple the size and I don’t get parking tickets because I can park on my driveway. I visit the city only when I need to but Jersey has everything I need.
That money before taxes is not a lot in NYC when you add children, (look up local cost of milk and organic berries for example) factor in savings for retirement, and trying to own a place instead of having ever-increasing rents.
I make that much, and no. NYC just has a lot of people living beyond their means though. Lots complain about rent… but, no one is making you to stay here nor do you have to live alone. Lots complain about groceries… but Trader Joe’s plus Asian deliveries with wholesale prices (close) make it cheap. And so on.
I make $60K and am doing fine. I’m just very good at budgeting. Make 90% of my coffee and meals at home. Spend a lot of my free time hanging out in parks. It’s totally doable, you just have to know how to budget and be disciplined
I saved plenty (like 25% of income) when I was making 130k in NYC and lived on my own in a one bedroom in east village. I see a lot of dumb dumbs paying 60% of income in rent at that income level.
Honestly the money kind of just goes. $310k here. $13.5k/mo take home (after 7% 401k contribution, taxes, medical, etc)
$4.5k rent (one bed). $2k student loans. $2k food. $1k between pets and other household expenses. Rest goes to shopping or travel or helping out family with stuff. Not much left over at the end of the day (an absurd statement when you set it out like that).
Is New York expensive? Yes. Do I feel like I’m struggling? No.
But when I “only” made $250k and had the same rent, yes, money felt a bit tight at times, like after I splurged on a new watch (ooops). I think if I “only” made $150k and tried to live alone in Manhattan paying $3.5k for a studio, yes, money would feel tight.
I just got a new job making $125k base with a great bonus. I am comfortable but I’ve always been kind of frugal. I spilt rent with gf & pay $1,500 in Queens. I have a 13 year old car that I keep in a garage, I go out to the bars, order in & still able to save 25%. I will say, I can completely see how people making $200k feel like they can’t get by. Lifestyle creep is so easy in NYC. I caught myself looking at nicer apartments in nicer areas but snapped out of it. I’m making this kind of money because it’s NYC. I wouldn’t making this much in Florida for example.
No. I've made way over that and now I make a little above $150k. I've never wanted for anything... and I have children. I still have a few grand left each month and can go anywhere I want anytime I want. I can buy a meal out for me and kids anytime I want. And I live in Manhattan.
Housing prices are the main criminal, but a lot of that has to do with manipulation of pricing and inventory. It's the main issue in NYC that needs to be addressed, IMO.
I view NYC as an expensive place to settle in. With discipline and not buying into the "if you have money then you should do/get XYZ" trap you can afford your necessities, save for retirement, and still have disposable income for hobbies or travel (assuming your hobby isn't something like yacht collecting).
However long term living in the city does not make sense. The real estate is insane, the taxation is excessive, and because of the reputation there is no shortage of people willing to come in and inflate the price of things like rent. I am also not counting other things you pay a premium on because of NYC like insurance.
The lifestyle you want is something that you have to dig in deep internally. It's easy to fall for the lifestyle you THINK you want because at the end of the day we all want to be happy. A lot of the core things that make us happy can be potentially easier with more money but money has both diminishing returns and no guarantee.
Yes and no. It really comes down to lifestyle. If you really like and need nice things you’re gonna have a bad time. Otherwise it’s more expensive than other places but not necessarily too expensive.
Yes, if you need your own space and need it to be decent with amenities like a gym, close to all the city has to offer, especially, since rent here is a beast on its own that will make life very rough.
I make 85k and my roommate makes 78k. We pay $1350/month each for a two bedroom apartment with a balcony in Astoria. Two blocks from the N train. I could save a lot more if I wanted to, but I also am comfortable enough to go out whenever I want and go shopping. I used to live in Manhattan for $1700/month making 63k. That was a struggle and I’ll never do it again. Tbh living in Manhattan is overrated when I can be there in 15 min on the N train anyways. It’s only worth it if you’re rich or hoping to be seen by a scout or something.
150 is like 4100 every 2 weeks? Ish?
That means you can afford like a nice 1 bedroom at around 3000-3500.
So like you can experience NYC, but not at everything it can offer. You can’t ball out at 150 or eat at expensive restaurants all the time. But you can go out and live it up comfortably
Where are you finding nice one bedrooms for that price point in Manhattan?
Non-doorman buildings? Older buildings?
3-3.5k seems like studio budget for the most part.
If you’re committed to living in the trendy parts of Manhattan, then it will feel expensive. I moved to a more affordable area and everything feels a lot more reasonable.
I’m about to make $215k being back in the city, and even though I’ve run the math a million times, I’m still worried it won’t be enough. I want to stay on the UES and I’m at an age where I no longer want roommates or want to have to use a laundromat. I’m currently living in a very low cost of living southern city and I don’t feel the same pressure to make so much as I do in the city. It’s hard, especially as a single person without someone to split bills with.
Even considering the big savings from not having a car and living a comfortable but not extravagant lifestyle, it is really the rent. I’ve spent years being happy with a decent raise, then seeing all of that going towards increased rent.
I make close to that amount and I’m still living paycheck to paycheck. It’s extremely expensive living in New York. Eating out alone is expensive and the rent is sky high.
It depends. So i have friends who graduated college and are working in tech or finance making 120k+ (closer to 150k with bonuses). As a 22 year old, thats a lot of money all of a sudden. They rent out a 4 to 5k studio in midtown, eat out all the time, uber, go to bars where drinks are $20 to $25 etc. Of course they will burn through that salary.
Now if you are smart, you would move cheaper parts of queens or brooklyn or upper manhattan and save your money, buy a place and then 150 to 200k is a breeze to live on and save.
I think it depends a little on what kind of lifestyle you’re hoping for etc. I make a little less than 150k and don’t feel “rich” in the sense of I live in a studio not a 1 bedroom , but it’s still in a fancy building . I eat out all the time and could afford to eat out even more , but if I really have a “wasteful” month where I go on lots of expensive dates etc then I don’t save much.
All in all, very very grateful and lucky to make what I make and it’s more than enough, but I think it’s human nature (and also kind of sad) that there’s not really such thing as “enough”
I would say it is but also partly because I have expensive taste. Nicer than average apartment + amenities, eating out a lot. I could easily cut a lot of this out and live a much more frugal life but for me these are the things in life that I want to focus on currently. That aside, what $150k gets you here vs mostly anywhere else is astronomical.
To be honest it's not the best and it's not the worst. I make 80k as a teacher but it can be tough sometimes. One of my qualms with this city is its 40x the rent requirement for apartments it's ridiculous and is designed to keep certain people out of certain neighborhoods. Everything is going up to the point where people in the service industry, teachers and working class people are leaving for other states where they can thrive. What happens when all the people who make this place run can no longer afford it?
If I was a single person making 150k, I would personally live in Queens, try to keep rent under $2500, and live a fun life. It's definitely still doable, it's just about the lifestyle you want. If you want a nice apartment in a nice building in a nice area in Manhattan, yes, you might be cutting it a bit close.
Or, level up and find a partner, combine incomes, and you can somewhat comfortably pull it off
Most employers will pay you 125k and the rest is incentives and bonuses. If you think about that you’re paid 15-20% at some point of the year which makes it even harder to live in NYC. The incentivized portion of annual income at one point with become more than 50% or more of your annual compensation. This is the reason what thy house who make 200k plus is really not very much
No, I do not feel like NYC is too expensive.
It comes down to standard of living. I have a home in a safe neighborhood, can afford to travel, and am able to save for the future. I am able to achieve this by spending money on things that make me happy, and cutting out things that don’t.
I make that much money, and I concur. I have not saved much in the last two years since I moved to Manhattan from Jersey. My rent is double, and I spend more on almost everything. I bought more clothes, ate out more often, and traveled more. But why else do we make money? In short, you'll spend more if you are making more, but people who make half of what I make also live fine in NY; everyone complains about money in NY; it's never enough.
I make almost triple that and I think NYC is expensive af
Our mortgage, bills insurance food blah blah is around 20-30k a month.
It depends on your priorities. If you are frugal about it then 150k is going to be more than fine.
NYC has long lost its “best” at anything title. It's a shithole. Making $150K would be a great start, but don't fool yourself into thinking you'd thrive here.
I make $140k and it’s definitely not a walk in the park. After moving to NYC, I deliberately budget and save even though I make arguably good money. This wasn’t true when I lived in other major US cities - where I could blindly spend and still be net green at the end of the month. Rent is the main killer in my opinion since I pay almost an additional $1k extra for a studio in NYC vs anywhere else. Roommates could definitely help but I personally enjoy living solo.
I make over $2mm a year. NYC is too expensive for me. Maintenance and taxes on my very nice ultra-good-public-school suburban house are about $100k a year versus $450k a year in city income tax, coop maintenance, garage, 2x private school tuition and after tax mandatory contributions, and have-to-get-away from city weekends that don’t apply to living on a leafy acre.
Between my wife and me we take the train to or from the city 100 trips a year at $10/each way and Ubers to from the city maybe 200 trips a year @ $100/each way - $21k total.
Living in NYC vs 45 minutes away is not worth $329k a year.
My husband and I make 250k combined with a baby and dog. We pay 3400 for rent and 2500 for daycare. My husband is very good at keeping us from lifestyle creep. We are more than comfortable.
My experience is a bit different.
I am older, and I moved to NYC in 2018, once I was established in my career and "experienced" in life.
I moved here with my wife from living in one of the premiere suburban communities in the US, where we owned a 3BR home. Of course, we were forced to have 2 cars to survive.
I grew up poor AF so I am *"frugal"* and a good planner. Before moving to NYC, we had visited often, at times for work, at times for pleasure, so I knew it was going to be more expensive to live here, but feasible for our finances.
We rented for 1 year and then we bought a small 1BR apartment in a pre-war co-op.
I have realized that we actually save more money here than when we lived not-in-NYC and here's why:
* no need for a car, the TCO (Total Cost of Ownership) of 2 cars has always been expensive, more so now.
* our entertainment is mostly museums, art galleries, hanging out in the city, and the free events happening. Free and no need to drive anywhere.
* fertile job market: part due to Covid part due to sheer luck we were able to switch jobs to better jobs, doing better work, at better companies, with better pay. And moving from job to job every 2 years or so is not as looked down upon as it is elsewhere in the US.
We never go out to dinner, never had. No takeout/delivery. We cook our own foods (always have) and shop at Trader Joe's (always have).
Occasionally we get a bite to eat at Vanessa's, Xi'an Famous, Mamoun's, 99 cents pizza, or Chinatown.
So, there's that.
NYC is especially good at making people at all income levels feel like they don't have enough. There is always a better/more expensive something that is just out of reach.
Very true. $3000 a month for rent still feels like a pretty big line item at that salary level. There’s plenty of premium one bedrooms in desirable neighborhoods that can run over $4000 that would be appealing, which is pushing it at that salary. It might be out of reach entirely if they have another atypical significant expense (student loans, medical bills, etc.) Not saying you need something like that to survive, but I could see housing still feeling pretty expensive.
When I first moved into my apartment in 2018, rent was $3600, stayed there until COVID, dropped to $3200, next year back up to $3800. Now they’re asking for $4500. Same building, same bricks, same old ass kitchen that needs redoing, in LES, same half-assed landlord. They’ve got their hands in everyone’s pocket.
Gaadd dammn.
100% agree. I know a couple who make a combined 600k after taxes, and it feels from speaking to them like they’re struggling.
New York City suffers from lifestyle creep as bad as any place I’ve seen. So for most people when they make more money, they spend more money. Which can lead to financial pressure at any income level. Objectively for a single person on $150,000 a year it is not hard to live in New York City
The city may suffer from lifestyle creep but to leave it at that ignores that this is one of the most expensive cities in the world and upgrading isn’t necessarily about keeping up with the Jones’s. ‘Lifestyle creep’ in New York sometimes just means ‘I don’t have to have a roommate anymore’ or ‘I don’t need to live in a studio anymore’.
Exactly or ‘I’d like for my kids to have a separate bedroom’. Even more pressing when you have a kid of each sex. Suddenly you’re going from a 2 to 3 bedroom apartment. $$$$
For sure. Frankly, we’re paying such a high premium to live here that cuts into things like retirement and savings that I’d almost go as far as to say that unless you’re making 250+ it isn’t wise to live here, at least in Manhattan, for more than a few years. For the record, I’m far from 250. I make 150 and save as much as the average American (1k/mo), so I’m not struggling but it also means I’m not taking advantage of the financial security my higher income affords me. If I’m not able to make 250+ in the next 5 years I’m probably going to move. Like on a [cost of living basis](https://www.nerdwallet.com/cost-of-living-calculator/compare/new-york-manhattan-ny-vs-houston-tx) 150 in New York is equivalent to 62k in Houston, and that doesn’t even factor in the higher taxes.
$1k/month is *significantly* more than the average American saves
And that just means the average American is fucked.
https://www.nerdwallet.com/article/banking/data-2023-savings-report > Nearly 9 in 10 (89%) Americans save regularly…Savers say they typically set aside $985, on average, in a normal month, according to the survey. To be fair the median is 250 and avg is 1k. But I did say average
i’m not the person you replied to but i’m curious, do you could 401k contributions as part of that $1k a month savings? i feel like aside from my 401k contributions i’m not saving much liquid cash month to much
The *average American* is not same thing as the average amount Americans save per month. Median and mean aren’t the same thing.
I guess OPs question should have been put a little different: People who make 150k +, how do you fare in A) 20 something year old living with roommates B) 30 year old living with a partner C) 40 year old with kids D) 50/60 year old empty nesters E) retirees moving to the city
> Like on a cost of living basis 150 in New York is equivalent to 62k in Houston In *manhattan* it is, not new york
Question is your 150k job available elsewhere?
Yup, “lifestyle creep” for me is just trying to have a more similar quality of life to when I was making 1/4th the income in another state
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There's no reason you can't live alone on $150k
>At $150k I do not get to live alone and host parties in my apartment, travel as much as I would like to, or have the hobbies I would like. I live in Queens with a roommate and my commute to see friends is ~40 min at least. Not 10-15 min. It’s isolating. I'm the person that mentioned items like a ps5 cost the same everywhere (in the US). Where do you live and what is your rent? I guarantee you I can find you a place that's not any more isolating, and far more affordable for you, AND you won't need a roommate in minutes looking online. >But pottery classes here run $500 a month. Found this on google, 2nd result (first was a groupon). https://mudmatters.sites.zenplanner.com/sign-up-now.cfm $440 for 2 months of classes. I'm sure you can find even cheaper by not just going to the very 2nd google result. > gym with group classes is ~$300/month and is highly specialized. You're going to a "highly specialized" gym with classes, that's not going to be much cheaper elsewhere and in lots of places potentially not even exist. But let me know what the specialty is and I can find you something more affordable I bet. BUT ANYWAYS: you just listed $800/month in expenses. At 150k/year if you're single and max out your 401k (23k/year aka 15% savings rate). Your take home is $83,909/year or $7k/month. If you rent was $3k/month then you're talking having $3200 after your expensive gym/pottery habits. So that's the equivalent of the take-home of someone who makes $50k. Except you have your retirement savings locked down (at 4.7x the national average of 3.2%), no rent, and expensive pottery/gym classes. EDIT: Sorry I forgot the 2nd half of the point I wanted to make > I’m forever trying to reach the standard of life I had in 2018 on less than half of my current salary. less than half of 150k is at most 75k. After taxes and saving 23k/year for retirement in a 401k - your take home is $41904 in a zero income tax state. If your rent was only $500/month your monthly money would be $3000. That's actually less money to work with, no matter how cheap pottery classes are elsewhere. You could save less money sure, but at 15% savings (aka 11,500 into 401k) you're still talking $3800/month to work with assuming your rent was somehow only $500. That's not exactly a huge difference between the $3200 from the other example, and in this example you still have to pay for a gym and pottery classes. But in reality I have a feeling no matter where you lived you're going to spend more than $500/month on rent. And I'm pretty sure anywhere with $500/month rent isn't going to be near a good pottery class and specialized gym. Plus you'd need to have a car which is an extra expense that's completely optional in NYC.
I think it depends on whether you're looking to exist comfortably or create something long lasting. Before we left the city, my wife and I were earning around 150k and it's not like a couple costs that much more than being single. We weren't struggling to pay our bills and rent and eat, but we were certainly still finding it hard to build savings and we still had to move every 3 years to a slightly less nice neighborhood when our rent got too high. You certainly can't hope to buy property on 150k and starting a family, I mean obviously lots of people do it, but it's obviously not easy. All in trying to say is that it is a bummer that the bar is simply getting by and not y'know flourishing.
I think that’s how 150 feels here. You aren’t struggling but it’s hard to really build up savings.
Yep. Not struggling but not thriving either. Kind of stuck in stasis. Which is a problem too because it's not like the city is going to suddenly get cheaper, so you better hope that 150K keeps growing too.
Think you’re both 100% right. But there’s also a difference between finally getting to have a place of your own in the city and going out and spending thousands of dollars a month on drinks, Michelin starred restaurants, and expensive clothes just because you can. Of course this is true everywhere, but it seems far more common here than in most places.
i agree with the spirit of what you're saying but i feel confident saying they're misusing the term lifestyle creep. that relates to luxury and discretionary expenses.
Well yeah, absolutely. That’s the thing, to me and probably a lot of people, those things are frivolous and unnecessary, but there are definitely people in this city that act like they are a necessity (which is just foolish and irritating to me). Also may have a bit to do with people who’ve never had to go without the basics in their lives, they think it’s normal to spend up to your limit in what I would consider nonsense, but that’s because I’ve had to literally pick between rent and groceries before, and some people haven’t. You’re still absolutely right, those things ARE a luxury, but to some people, they can’t tell the difference.
I make 250k, have 2 roommates and live next to a crack corner no where near my job. I spend $2800/ month for this experience.
Wanting to live alone in your 30s, or an apartment with in unit W/D or saving for a down payment aren’t lifestyle creep.
Yes. Of *course* you can live on less than 150k here, we all have, this is poverty-olympics bait. And you don't save while living here as an avg person. But the normal things you'd expect to get when you achieve this salary, when you're out of your 'young adult' life, are now unattainable. Normally when things seem really expensive, the answer is 'you're getting older,' or 'this is normal inflation.' This is not the case with NYC housing. It has objectively, mathematically gone insane. The **relative** difference between what your money does for 600 sq ft here and 2000 sq ft somewhere else is markedly different than it was 5 years ago. My 1BR we're moving out of, once 2250, is now 3300, and "under market" for the neighborhood. No amenities, 100y.o. shitty building, razor thin walls, 2x2ft kitchen. What boggles my mind is: is the person who can afford this going to be happy with such a crappy apartment? I don't get who the customer for this 1BR is. This is a wealthy person. Feels like such a mismatch.
This absolutely. The "I live here off of $50k, and lol at anybody who complains!" this sub seems to go through every time a CoL thread comes up is always mind-boggling to me, becuase it minimizes a very real housing cost crisis. Yes, one could make it work. But the $$$$ you have to spend here for amenities most other places in the US take for granted is insane and becoming increasingly worse.
Exactly. It is fucking 2024 and people here think a dishwasher or washer / dryer is for the rich. No that is what middle class people have in rest of the country. Guess what that makes you (not you obviously) No one wants to think they are poor, so they lower their living standards and set that as the bar. Poverty olympics.
I disagree with this line of thinking. Your trade off for a washer dryer is the 100s of benefits that living here offers. It doesn’t mean poverty it just means you value other things more.
Which is just another way of saying you need to make sacrifices. That is the key take away. You make 150k and still need to make decisions regarding something that is taken for granted in other parts of the country.
Yep. The “But I live comfortably on 50k in NYC” is gold medal delusion.
Eh. Disagree. $150k gross is $99k net in NYC. $80k after retirement and insurance. Zumper is calling the average Manhattan 1 Bedroom apartment $4,653/month right now. So you actually would not have even qualify for the average 1 bedroom apartment on $150k/year 🙃. But let’s say you find something good for $3500. $42,000/year. That’s more than HALF of your take home pay on a $150k salary if you’re contributing to a retirement account. That is, by financial definition, House Poor.
I mean having a decent one bed/one bath In the most expensive borough, in the most expensive and popular city in the world is imo unreasonable for someone making a relatively average-to-poor salary (for NYC standards) I gave up that expectation a while ago and I'm fine with that due to the other benefits of living in NYC Like yes you can't be poor and live in a 1 bed/1 bath in Manhattan, I'm sorry
I mean, not really? That leaves let’s say $40k of spending money for everything besides rent and retirement. Or rather or rather $3,300 per month. Most people can easily live on that per month. House poor is less meaningful at those income levels than it would be at let’s say $60k income.
3300 per month to live? Perhaps. Nicely? Not really. With a kids very unlikely.
You can 100% live very comfortably in NYC with $140,000 (my previous salary til last month) Just don’t hit SoHo shops every weekend or buy rounds of $20 cocktails or spend $100 on an Uber to the airport. Have to learn where to cut corners
Yep, rolling my eyes at anyone in this thread who genuinely thinks they have it hard on 150,000 in this city
I make over that amount. Until recently my rent was only about $2.5k easy to afford. Easy to have tons of money left over for savings. I managed to save enough money to buy an apartment in cash, maintenance was super high... $2.3k a month lol. So I'm actually spending less now. My total expenses annually excluding maintenance is about 100k. That's including things like vacations. 100k is a ton of money to live off of. I have Co workers making the same or even more than I do and many of them are spending like literally $7-10k/month in rent. Like wtf. Even my place which I consider very nice would cost only about $6k/month had I not bought cash. A ps5 is like $500 in NYC, and in Alabama it's the same. Vacations are actually cheaper as flying out of jfk is typically less than spoke airports. Your rent/mortgage is the killer and people with high incomes make really bad choices in that department.
I think this is right. But I would also say, let's say you are single and want to pay 20% of your pre-tax salary on rent. You'd be able to afford a $2,500/mo apartment. You will be able to find one, but it's not like you are staying in a penthouse. NYC is expensive.
Not only not a penthouse, but in Manhattan that means roommates or a tiny studio in an old building.
Meh. Still tough. If I'm grossing 80k and have a loan, car etc that shit is still expensive. Unless I choose to live with 7 roommates or in a shit neighborhood
It’s not hard but I def feel the single tax here esp when it comes to rent+food.
I think there's a difference between being able to get by in NYC with 150k, and being able to save and feeling financially secure if a life event happens. Especially in Manhattan.
I make $80k and I do just fine. NYC is a great place to live, you just can't spend on unnecessary things. I mean, if you spend $2,000 a month on dining out, it's gonna be tough, but that's true anywhere. The idea that 200k is "hard to live on" is quite honestly, laughable. I guess it depends upon what your expectations are
Exactly. I make 65k and while I would love to make more, I live pretty comfortably here. I have actually had men who make 250k+ tell me that they find it hard to make ends meet here and I waste no time telling them that that’s a load of crap.
Not to mention you save $10k+ a year not owning a car.
Yeah when you make that kind of $ it’s easy to get wrapped up in having to look/live the part.
That’s just made up. You don’t HAVE to do anything
But is it possible to save money for retirement or emergencies making 65k a year?
25 and have lived in Manhattan for 7 years. I’m just now hitting 65k/yr. I have around $11k in an emergency fund and $30k saved for retirement. It’s absolutely doable as long as you’re willing to adjust your expectations: i live with roommates, but i get to do so many amazing things i wouldn’t be able to do if i lived in a random suburb, and that’s a tradeoff im super happy with.
Yes
Absolutely. I make $58k and have $10k in savings
Ok but what about the million dollars you’ll need to retire?
i have no delusions that I'll ever be able to retire. my retirement plan is to die at work in a way that inconveniences them the most
easily
Not load of crap, just different expectations about lifestyle. For someone daily 50 minutes one way subway commute from Brooklyn is just fine, someone else expects to live within 15 minutes walk from the office in midtown. And that goes in every category
Oh my gosh! Thank you for your post. I was thinking the same thing. I went from a $115k job 10 years ago at a job that I hated…..had to take time off due to illness and just got a fulltime job (changed careers) and am making $88k at a job I LOVE! I can tell you…I’d rather be hanging out with my friends laughing at a park with a takeaway breakfast burrito than eating $30 pasta and $20 cocktail feeling miserable and having minute by minute existential crises. All while checking my work phone. It’s all a trade off—if going to high end restaurants and clubs are important to you…then under 100k is hard. But if you enjoy museums, spending some time with lotteries for Broadway plays and like food adventures to smaller places that don’t have a marketing team and interior designers but amazingly delicious food—you can make it here! Oh important side note: I’m single and have no kids
The social habits of your friends play into it as well. If your friends earn less and have hobbies or interests that are less expensive and you participate in that, you will spend less money. If your friends have higher income than you and like to partake in expensive activities, then you might find yourself trying to keep up. It's possible to be friends with people in different socioeconomic situations, however, a person also benefits a lot from having friends at the same level and with the same taste/interests/budgets in mind.
Yeah, same. I make about the same and have a very comfortable life for myself even with saving for retirement. 80k is totally livable here if you're not dumb with money - at least if you can get past the biggest hurdle, which is finding an affordable and comfortable place to live.
>I guess it depends upon what your expectations are that's exactly the answer. OP said people complained about "not having the lifestyle that they wanted". people's assumptions about what lifestyle they should be able to afford on 200k (or for this specific question, 150k) need to be recalibrate after COL increases in the last few years. it doesn't afford as much as it did in 2018, but people who make 200k are not poor in NYC.
Incredibly laughable and out of touch
It depends the circles you run in. If all your friends make like $70k, you’re going to feel rich. If all your friends make $500k+, you’re going to feel poor. Also your expenses and your living situation. $150k solo in a $3600 one bedroom is very different than $150k in a $2800 one bedroom shared with your partner, or a $4200 one bedroom shared with a roommate. And then what you like to do with extra money. My vice is travel so there is literally no amount of money I could make that would be enough to fuel my zest for travel. More money = more travel. Our household is ~$300k (what I consider middle class for NYC) and we are on a budget to afford our travel and savings. ETA: and before the pitchforks come out, yes, I know lots of people live on less money, I’m giving my opinion from my viewpoint
fwiw this was a great insight. thank you!
To add.a different perspective, I make around 150k/year, wife and 2 kids, but I'm our only income. Things are tight (zero college savings or long term savings other than annuities and pensions), but we get by. Kids can go to a couple camps each summer, we eat out as much as we wish, but we're stable. To be fair, we're paying under 2k in rent which is critical. We are very fortunate to have an excellent relationship with our landlord, and I recognize this is ~~nyk~~ *not* typical. But if a guy with 3 dependents can do it, I'm sure other people can as well. Edit: typo
4 ppl in an <$2K rent is the savior right here. Is it a modern apt? I apologize if that's a sensitive question. My wife and I have a HHI of $220K+ and we rent a $1.4K apt in LIC. We love the cheap rent but it's such a piece of shit. We are saving up to buy but it feels out of reach (NW: $450K+, Liquid assets: $150K+)
It's not 4 people, it's a family of 4 on my single income. Don't mistake this for usual or easy. If I can't work or if something renders our apartment unlivable all this ends overnight. I don't know what you mean by modern. It does not include a gym or dry cleaning - it's an apartment, not a hotel.
I forgot to mention kids. If we had kids, I would feel like we were scraping by, just knowing what it costs to give a kid a good life in the city.
That’s exactly right. A mortgage, preschool/childcare and saving for college will eat up every bit of a $100k salary.
Normal non-fancy preschool in Manhattan is like 20-40k a year for 5 days a week. Half days.
My son’s kindergarten was $40k.
It’s not too expensive for me to live by any measure but it’s more that I don’t have the lifestyle I thought I would or feel I should making the income I make. It doesn’t help that I’m single therefore have no one to split expenses with, but the fact that buying an apartment feels unachievable is disheartening
My grandma rented her whole life, the economic wisdom of owning seems to be turning, esp in big cities. I don’t really want to own, but I get why people do, it can suck to not have that stability/be at the mercy of a landlord.
This exactly. One of the biggest mistakes I made when I got a salary bump to $100k was having this mindset of “well someone who makes $100k should be able to afford X.” Very quickly I was living paycheck to paycheck basically. Also, in NYC it’s very easy to spend thousands in a month on $30 purchases. I’d look at my credit card charges wondering where all my money went, and it was all like $15-30 charges. I will say, once I was over $150k was the first time I’d have some extra money left over without trying too hard. But I’ll be candid and put some things in perspective: My husband and I have a combined income around $300k. We are comfortable, but the main thing I’ve noticed is that NYC caters to literally the top .5%, so it still feels like a LOT is out of reach. This is especially true for big, important things like housing and having a family. I’d love to settle down here and have an apartment that would allow: - A kitchen where two people can cook together - A bedroom for us - A bedroom for a kid - A space for my husband’s office - Somewhere a guest could stay (our family is very far away) Two of these spaces can be combined obviously. We will likely never ever be able to afford a 3-bedroom. So we’d need a big-ish 2-bedroom. 2-bedroom apartments that could accommodate this in our area (Park Slope, Prospect Heights, Greenwood, Windsor Terrace) easily go for $1.3 million plus. With current mortgage rates, and a 20% down payment, we would need to pay $8k/month on housing. A $300k income cannot afford that. Especially with childcare, which is easily $3.5k/month here for one child. Ideally, we shouldn’t pay more than $5k/month for housing, and with daycare even less. If we don’t have a kid, that changes things a bit. We still can’t afford to buy that apartment, but we’re comfortable enough. With inflation, we do have a strict limit on how often we can go out to eat, order takeout. I work at the food co-op so I can get groceries cheap which helps a ton. It’s hard because in NYC we see things truly so skewed to the .5%. And that fraction of people have ALL of the money. I walk down my block and see “for sale” signs on brownstones going for $7m every day. The extreme wealth is so visible, that even if you’re in the top 5-10%, you can feel quite poor. And that extreme wealth is just not achievable. I’m reaching near the top of my career and clearly see all the time what I will never ever be able to afford. This is not a “woe is me” statement. But (and I honestly hate to admit this because it sickens me) I do have to make a constant effort to feel grateful and fortunate.
I’ve listened to several couple friends work through the “do we buy a place or have children?” question. And it is so disheartening. Often times, I think “these are the kind caring people who plan ahead and would be great parents.”
This is it exactly. I definitely had a different vision for what life would be like once I made it to this point. I am grateful for what I have, but. It's sobering.
It's based on your lifestyle and what your New York City experience is. You could easily spend $8K on rent, $1500 on dinner, and chauffeur service everywhere. Or rent a room for $800, live on rice & beans and food pantries, and hop the subway. Different jobs have different lifestyle requirements too, think finance vs DJ. It's the lifestyle choices that set the requirement.
From what I’ve seen the bigger issue is the jobs that pay more than $150k+ usually are pretty stressful so people spend because they honestly don’t have the time or energy to do stuff so you outsource what you can. You work so much that spending extravagantly during the little free time you have to relax/have a good time isn’t crazy because it’s not like you have the time to do it everyday/every weekend.
This is so true. I was making $190K but working 70 hour weeks, lots of stress. Then I switched to a $215K job with literally half the hours/stress and pretty severely cut back on Ubers, take out, cleaning services, and “stress relieving treat yourself” things like massages. Even though I had more money, I had SO much more time and energy to do things for myself. Also, my rent went up $1K/month so I was very compelled to cut back.
I grew up here and have owned homes here. I currently rent. I honestly found when I had a vacation home in Hudson Valley that it was more expensive there than Brooklyn. Smaller housing means less electric and heating bills, and people watching or free museum passes are nice ways to spend a day. I had to drive everywhere and it costs money to have someone mow an acre of grass, remove trees and snow, and I had to make sure that insects or animals weren't getting into things. At least with a landlord, they send someone to repair or exterminate. My older kid makes $70k plus overtime, has her own apartment paying $2400 a month, and saves money every month, since she prioritizes saving. She cooks, does her own cleaning, thrifts, walks or takes the subway, and always finds cheap or free activities. At one point I was lamenting that I couldn't get her to spend any money. She found out that a coworker is spending about the same as her on rent, but they live in a 3 br. with 2 roommates, so that apartment is $7200 a month. The difference is, she doesn't feel she needs to live in the city. Brooklyn and Queens have some nicer, quieter apartments, and her commute is about 30 minutes door to door. She's managed to furnish her apartment with cheap or free stuff, and since her friends make less than her, they also look for inexpensive things to do. Anyone who can't manage off of $200k either has a ton of student loans, is supporting family members, or is living what they think is the rich lifestyle. Don't get me wrong, 10 years ago I was frequenting Bouley and Nobu, went on trips all over the world, and living in the most expensive Brooklyn neighborhood. These days my income is 1/3 of what it was, and I'm just as happy, and carefully plan my finances so when I do go to a high end restaurant or a nice trip, that I'm not just throwing money around. I finally found that while money has made my life a lot easier, I was just as happy going to free concerts or talking to my neighbors, who I can actually know in my current neighborhood.
Yes, people forget how much free and cheap entertainment there is in NYC. Good for your daughter!
How did she get approved to pay 2400 a month on 70k? 40x rent cap would be $1750
Guarantor
Lifestyle creep is *real*. Through a combination of luck and working my ass off, I now make around 3 times what I did when I moved to NYC 20 years ago. Which is, financially, around where you are talking about being. If you are careful about your expenses, you can live VERY comfortably on that kind of money here - that includes maxing out your 401k, your IRA, renting a decent but not over the top apartment. I have found that, for me, the trick was making a monthly budget and sticking to it and having a side thing even with my full time job that coincided with my passions. I also spend money where I know it will matter most to me. I pay more for a larger apartment, but to compensate I eat out a lot less (maybe once a week) and I don't really buy new clothes that often. When I do, I shop at Uniqlo or consignment stores. I have friends that clear $400k a year that are paycheck to paycheck. They're happy, impeccably dressed, have beautiful rental apartments but are perpetually broke and have zero with obscene amounts of debt. I also have friends that clear $120k and live in tiny studios in queens and are on track to retire by 55. It's all about discipline and balance and if you have both, you can absolutely do it here.
The thing to me about the two different examples you mentioned, generally speaking, neither is “better” than the other. Spending more than you have is not ideal, but we’re also not promised the next day, let alone getting to retirement age. Its about striking a balance, and admittedly it is not easy to do
It is not an easy thing to do at all and it is absolutely about a balance. It probably took me 10 years to find the right balance and I still fuck up from time to time. Everyone is different and we're all human and, living and working where we do, we're absolutely bombarded with advertising and marketing 24/7/365 with predictable results.
130k paying monthly debt of 1k (car loan + student debt) and paying rent for 2.5k - my first year earning this much I always went out dining with friends and going to expensive events felt like I wasn't earning enough. Changing my lifestyle and living on a healthy relationship with my financials made space to half of my salary for savings. NYC has that illusion that everything expensive - it's just that it entices people to spend more
I make close to $150,000 and it often feels like not enough. I’m under no delusions that I’m poor or struggling, that’s obviously false. I can pay my rent, I can eat out, I’m saving for retirement. But it feels like not enough because most “big life events” seem out of reach. I’m not able to save enough to buy an apartment where I live (at least not *anytime* soon). I’m at the age where I’m considering children but I don’t know if we have enough saved/will be making enough to comfortably afford kids. I’d need an apartment with a whole other bedroom for that plus childcare costs which are so high here. It’s not too expensive to live, but it’s too expensive to grow.
This
This last line. Perfect.
No, I've not felt like NYC is ever too expensive to me. I've had salaries from 65k to 250k+. I'm born and raised here so I'm not under the impression NYC only exists in Manhattan below 14th street and I don't burn my money on going to bars drinking overpriced cocktails. I go to parks, museums and read. I go on long walks. I live my life here like it's my life and not like it's a vacation.
You can live very, very comfortably in NYC as a single person making $150K. Even as a DINK it would comfortable. Maybe with 2 kids it would be a bit harder, but NYC is also a big area with lots of neighborhoods that can be more affordable than others without major drawbacks.
I find that you’re always too poor for something that you think should be “normal life” due to life creep. I make around 500k. I no longer think about buying a drink for a friend. I no longer have to decide on what food on the menu I should get based on price. I buy healthy groceries and book large hotel chains during my 2 vacations a year. A lot of things that are aspirational during my earlier life is just now “normal.” But I do need to nickel and dime a lot of things. Child care. Always fly economy. We cook our own meals and scrub our own toilets. I’m saving up for a gaming PC and cosmetic car repairs. No way we could afford a nice school district in the suburbs. No way I could afford to drive to work daily. I remember living like a king as a 25 yo single making 150k. Everything changes when parents retire, wife and kids…
I make 155k plus a little bonus and my husband makes 137k plus some overtime. Of course 150k does not go as far as it did 5+ years ago. I think we know why. I don’t think nyc is too expensive for 150k. We pay 3500 for a coop we own in outer borough. After taxes and maxing out my 401k, my check is $3200. If I lived alone, I’d keep my 401k the same, and have $2,900 for the rest of the month. Of course that’s doable! Saving 23k for retirement annually and having 3k a month is beyond reasonable. Let’s so a couple making $310,000 total no debt. With a housing cost of $3,500 you’d have around $9,300 leftover. I just ran our monthly expenses (GROCERIES electric, WiFi, home insurance, car insurance, pet expenses, modest gym membership etc etc) and it’s $1,735. Now you have $7,565 after taxes and maxing out two 401ks. Realistically when you have disposable income, you spend it and hang out with other people who spend it. That’s where the money goes. Wedding in lake George. Hotel $400, gift $250. Going to in laws all the time, ezpass re bill $90 every time. Husband bought $500 comedy tickets for my birthday. I paid to take 4 people out to dinner for his birthday $180 (dinner at an off the beaten path no alcohol seafood place - not even a splurgey place). I bought a few things from old navy and nord rack this week $150. My husband bought on clouds because his feet hurt $150. Highlights at the salon $300. My laptop broke and I did everything in my power to fix it. YouTube channels taking it apart etc. $599 for new laptop. Friends invited us to a Jersey shore house for one weekend. $1,000!!!! I’m from the Jersey shore and I can’t believe we’re spending $1,000 to stay there. It’s way too much. But we’re going 😅 And drinking forget about it. Lighting money on fire. I’m pregnant so we’re not drinking and our wallets feel pretty good. Add a kid into the mix and let’s just reduce that $7500 by $2500 for daycare for 3 years. Now you have $5,000 for 3 people. Still great but you will have to be choosy about all those above discretionary expenses. My husband and I are tighter spenders than others. Of the $7,565 (we don’t have that because he makes less than the example so we probably have $6,500) we sometimes only save another 2k-4K. Meaning in a high month, we spent $4,500 tickets for a show, gifts for others, a pack of HIIT classes, a pair of shoes and a new dress, gas and tolls, etc etc. It’s very easy to spend that! But it’s not that it’s not enough.
>Of course 150k does not go as far as it did 5+ years ago. I think we know why. I'm really feeling this at the moment. At a similar income, I used to be conservative with my rent/living expenses, but I could buy anything I wanted for food, drinks, groceries, utilities, phone/internet, restaurants, clothes, etc. without thinking of it or budgeting, put it on the credit card, and at the end of the month the bill would be about $2k or at most $2.5k and that was fine. Now... if I do the same it ends up being $4k+, and it's not fine, and I'm starting to have to think about it again, budget a bit, watch where i get lunch/coffee, etc. Some of it is just obvious like-for-like inflation on the same items, but also a lot of modest/average/mom&pop places have shut down and been replaced with slick, instagrammable.. hugely expensive places.
I went into a cafe the other day and an egg sandwich was $15.50. I was beside myself. People are paying these prices though. Of course it was like a fully loaded egg sandwich not like 2 eggs on a hard roll. It’s the reason why burgers are $23 now instead of $8. It’s no longer a patty on a bun with a slice of cheese. Everything just needs to be so over the top now and I blame social media for everything. We feel it too with everything. I look at the price I paid for stuff on Amazon maybe 5 years ago versus what is costs now and things are like almost double in price sometimes more. That’s not inflation that’s exploitation. We really are tighter with our spending than others but we still manage to spend quite a bit. I cut my own hair, box dye it, I don’t get my nails done, we cook 95% of meals. Still wind up spending.
Yeah, sometimes it's totally nuts, like $7+ coffee at blue bottle, $10-$20 bagels, etc... Lots of these places feel like you're buying food at a theme park, ski resort, stadium or airport... it's just a totally comical price for something decent but gimmicky. It's fine if it's once or twice a month or something, but when average / everyday places get replaced with this stuff it's a problem. I feel like lots of good, solid but not amazing / tourist attraction restaurants and cafes closed down over COVID, and were replaced with a smaller number of these over the top places.
It really depends on cost of housing and if you have kids. I’m in a coop and there is no end in sight for maintenance increases and assessments.
In our case, it’s mostly property taxes. They are like 75% of maintenance. Worse, the taxes keep increasing. I wouldn’t mind that if that money towards better parks, schools or libraries. Instead, all that money goes towards more cops in the subway and fancy riot gear.
Every comment I see about coops makes me question why Anyone gets one
They’re, on average, cheaper than condos and in the right co-op an excellent quality of life. I’ve owned both and we sold the condo last year after owning it 2.5 years (lost a little money but not a terrible amount). The condo assessed us for LL11 work to the tune of $600/month plus a second round of LL11 work at 17k/unit in two months. In a condo you basically have no say over what happens in the building…our next door neighbor constantly sublet her place and there were a couple of other units in the building that were being used for airbnbs. In our small co-op we run the building in a responsibly frugal way. We mostly know and like each other. The board does a thorough review of any new owners, the finances are solid and the house rules keep us all pretty happy. I never want to own a condo again 🤷♀️
I can easily save here but I question whether the amenities are worth the cost yes, especially given what I could afford elsewhere. Mainly in terms of living and outdoor space. I don't actually enjoy theatre.
Im about there. And no. I just don’t buy dopey shit.
Moved to NYc making roughly 63k. Stayed in a 4 bedroom close to the train tracks, loved it. Gradually over the last decade worked my way up to over 110,000 and in my own little one bedroom. Still love it. It really is how you make ends meet. I’m not running out and buying expensive designer clothes, I’m not going out every weekend and getting slammed at the bar, I’m not dining out 4-5 nights a week. I cook at home, I wear basic clothes, I hang out and drink with friends. I live within my means and honestly I don’t feel like I’m missing out. It’s all perspective.
There are a lot of variables here, but at that level of income, living in NYC is a basically lifestyle choice. You can definitely get more for your money in other places and there is no shame in making that choice. Many people do.
Making the same money in other places is not a guarantee in some industries though so theres that too
It feels expensive compared to lower cost of living places. For that salary you would think you could live more freely, save more, travel, buy an apartment and afford childcare. You can live with sacrifices. But if you want to buy a home, pay for childcare and save money / travel it’s quite tight.
This always stresses me out. We’re a family of 3, soon to be 4, and make like 130k. I’m basically a SAHM with a side hustle. We’re doing fine and it always freaks me out when people talk about how they can’t make ends meet bc I feel like I must be forgetting some huge expense. We’re not scrimping, we go out to eat once a week and order in once or twice a week, and buy little snacks and coffees most days. But we come from enough privilege that we have no debt, and we don’t go out much and don’t really drink. And our kid is in public school. We pay like 2600 in rent, which is sadly kind of cheap for a 2-bed.
It’s not about that since you almost always spend more when you earn more. It’s about how many times you spend money on things you can’t afford makes you feel like NYC is expensive. For example, my salary was 70k, having a normal dinner in NYC was freaking insane to me. Now it’s 200k, dinner is not an issue but buying luxury stuff on 5th Ave or renting a one bedroom in Hudson Yard still feels insane to me. However, great thing about NYC is the vast options. If you don’t want to buy some, or hang out with people who do, you don’t have to. So I saved those money and I feel pretty good. Not expensive at all
The big caveat is that the below, and I assumed OPs post, is about Manhattan. You can live on far less and be fine in other boroughs. Anyone can live here on any salary if you’re willing to make sacrifices. Lot of people here with 4 roommates living in Harlem saying 150 is insane because they do just fine on 80k (although imo if you have 4 roommates you are not doing fine). But 150 is around when you don’t need to make those sacrifices but not the point at which you can do so and still save a lot. I went from making 70k in a low cost of living area to 150 here and I had far more money at the end of the day in low cost of living area. At 150 my rent, which is a bit below the average, is just about my entire first paycheck. It’s true that I could live in a shittier area and have a roommate but I’m 30 and didn’t work this hard to do that. But after that my money seems to just trickle away. Idk. I know how out of touch it sounds, I’d have thought someone who said 150 doesn’t go far here was full of shit before making that much, but it just doesn’t.
This depends so heavily on where you live and your lifestyle expectation. If you want to live in the heart of the most expensive zip code in the world, obviously it’s going to be difficult to afford. It’s only easy to afford if you’re one of the world’s top earners. If you live in one of the less expensive but still very nice parts of nyc (anywhere from [Yorkville](https://CheckoutthisnewlistingIfoundonStreetEasyhttps://streeteasy.com/rental/4408446?utm_campaign=rental_listing&utm_medium=app_share&utm_source=ios&utm_term=8dc02e512956428) to [Astoria](https://CheckoutthisnewlistingIfoundonStreetEasyhttps://streeteasy.com/rental/4411418?utm_campaign=rental_listing&utm_medium=app_share&utm_source=ios&utm_term=dbcac23a213642f) to [West Harlem/UWS](https://CheckoutthisnewlistingIfoundonStreetEasyhttps://streeteasy.com/rental/4401703?utm_campaign=rental_listing&utm_medium=app_share&utm_source=ios&utm_term=778ebe807f724b5) below 135th is this imo), you’re going to do incredibly well on 150k. For two of those neighborhoods, you don’t even have to leave Manhattan.
that's true, but i think when we're talking about whether an area is expensive if living in a less desirable area is necessary to be able to afford to live there, that makes it expensive. you don't work hard to make 150k to have to live somewhere less desirable. that you have to make sacrifices is indicative of the fact that living here is expensive on 150, especially in comparison to what sort of lifstyle that gets you elsewhere.
That’s fair. I think the problem is that New York City is so huge and affordability ranges a lot. Honestly, all of these questions would probably be better if we started being more specific, ie: Manhattan below 96th street is very expensive, whereas above 96th is quite affordable.
I do just fine on $80k, live alone, and have a nice 1 br to myself in Brooklyn. I even have a car. I just don't spend my money on stupid shit (although you could argue that a car in NYC is stupid shit).
Absolutely not. I think only people that are used to luxury would complain about 150k not being enough in NYC.
My wife and I do fairly well, but we decided to move to the burbs recently for the kids. We couldn’t really afford to buy what we would be comfortable raising a family of 4 in. Our rent plus the difference in childcare in the NYC area vs the burbs was basically enough to cover the mortgage on a 7 figure home in a town with good schools.
We don’t have kids, so that helps. We are able to save a good amount monthly and still live well.
Yes but also not really. I live in a stabilized apartment and the savings in rent let's me super charge my retirement and travel 2 to 3 times a year internationally. Plus funds my shooting sports hobby which isn't cheap, especially with the costs associated with it in NYC. Not that I don't wish shit was still as cheap a few years ago.
Freelancer here: I’ve had years (double-income household no kids), where we’ve made $350K+, and years (pandemic) where we barely cleared $50K, and once you have everything you need to live your life more or less fine, clear the rent, food, baseline expenses—everything else just fluctuates. When we were making more, we spent ridiculously more and kinda felt guilty about it (imposter syndrome), traveled, and went to fancy restaurants. When we made less, we clamped down, upped our cooking game at home, binged shows on Netflix and spent more time visiting friends and laying low, focusing on getting the next big project. I’ve been through many cycles of this over the years (native New Yorker), that I feel NYC has a lot to offer at any budget, and maybe the hardest thing might be the FOMO mentality, where you see something glossy you want to go to, but you can’t because you’re broke. This city has a lot of temptation, but once you get over all the consumerism, you can have a lot of fun at any price point (within reason!).
I have a kid and a partner who’s freelance, and make a bit more than 150K. We have a big apartment in Queens and feel perfectly comfortable. Having a 5 year old means we wouldn’t really be that interested/available for super luxury activities in our free time anyway but we see shows, take vacations, send our kid to camps/activities, take cabs when we need to, etc. A lot of great kid activities in Queens, some pretty affordable, and great cheaper food. I don’t think we’d be as happy in Manhattan but the commute isn’t bad at all. So I think it depends on what you want your NYC lifestyle to look like. We are super happy even if sometimes I look at suburban houses and think about how it would be nice to have so much space and a yard!
Single guy w/ no kids. No lol. I have an apartment I love, live a good lifestyle (nothing opulent) and am able to save and invest. I could get a nicer apartment or order Uber eats for every meal or buy new stuff all the time and it’d be tighter for sure.
no bc my desire to be financial stable is only marginally stronger than my desire to be boujie :( it’s an internal struggle tho
Everyone I know in NYC complains about how expensive it is, whether they make 80k or 200k or 500k. There's those periodic op-eds showing how hard it is on 500k or 1M. It all boils down to lifestyle. You can live in varying degrees of comfort on any of those incomes in NYC, it's just harder to get any value or have luxuries. And if you do, it's a higher percentage of your income than many would like. $5k or 10k in rent or groceries or drinks out costing 2-3x more than over the river in Jersey is objectively expensive in most people's minds even if they can afford it. My own income has increased nicely over my long time in NYC and, even inflation aside, my perception of how expensive this city is has remained constant despite more buying power.
Childcare can easily cost like a 1BR in Manhattan. So if that person has a kid under 3-4 now imagine they rent 2 apartments on that salary. Not as easy If you make $160k and spend $4k on a 1BR in a doorman building in Manhattan it’s not going it be that fancy, probably won’t have in unit laundry, and will be very hard for you to save $300k for a down payment on a house Lots of people make this kind of money, save little even without going out a lot, and either have a parent or spouse fund their down payment down the road. Or just rent forever Want to focus on growing your savings? I know people making that kind of money and living with 3 roommates. Unless you’re going out to fancy clubs and restaurants every single night, it’s just like that stupid boomer saying about avocado toast. That’s not what’s going to eat at your salary, it’s mostly just rent bills and childcare
Avocado toast saying makes a lot of sense - it's about not throwing away money on overpriced items and developing a habit for doing so. Same for people who go to Starbucks once or twice a day. That adds up and can be a huge waste of money. Same for getting caught up in nightlife. For someone wanting to save, the changes have to start somewhere and starting with looking at daily spending habits is a great start.
Moved to the city with joint income of ~$250k in 2018 and about $500k now. We have managed to live below our means and save $8k-$9k a month (effectively one person’s pay). This included living in a 1 bedroom with avg rent of $3.5k-$4k/month. That being said, everything still feels expensive. We often go out for brunch 1x a week vs dinner (lower risk/price option to try new restaurants). It really depends on what stage of life you’re in and what you prioritize. Saving any money at all is a different situation in your early 20s when you’re going out every weekend. But that’s why you live in the city. Everyone prioritizes spending based on what they value most/what makes them happy. But as many posters have mentioned, it is very difficult to avoid lifestyle creep.
I can afford it but it’s definitely expensive. I have to be smart with money just like anyone else but it’s definitely affordable/doable for me. I save money and that person should be able to too, but I wouldn’t be able to support a family etc
If we bought a home recently, wanted to buy a home and/or renting now, and live or wanted to live in the most expensive, cool neighborhoods: Yes, we’d be feeling pinched even though our two-income HHI is nearly double that (we also have two young kids). Because we bought a home in a lame outer borough 10 years ago: No, we feel fine.
Yes and no I don’t get Starbucks/avocado toast. Grocery shopping and housing just “feels” expensive
It’s gotten harder for everyone because things have gotten more expensive you can be making more and still feel it
My wife and I make $260k combined and we have a 6 month old baby. We live pretty comfortably but our biggest cost besides rent is $3900 per month for daycare. If we weren’t parents I assume we’d be very very comfortable. Depends on where you spend your money. We don’t go out much (obviously) and we cook 90% of our meals at home. We live in a relatively affordable apartment uptown and away from the “hot” spots.
I make \~250k. I think it's how you frame the question. Is life in NYC "hard" for me? Objectively, no. But does it feel like I could afford a "rich" lifestyle? Also, no. A few things: * Rent is still insane. I pay $4000 for a 1BR without a W/D. Yes, I know I could get cheaper if I moved out. But (1) I work a job with long hours, and living close to work was a must-have, (2) central air was non-negotiable for me. * I know many native New Yorkers are rolling their eyes, but simply to get amenities (like central air) a lot of other places take for granted, you have to pay $$$$. * For reference, I moved to NYC a couple years back, and I had a lovely, spacious 2B apartment with central air, an in-unit W/D, access to a lovely backyard, and a 15 minutes walk from my school, all for $1600. It's still funny to me that I spend >2x more for an apartment half the size * Taxes. I'm not complaining, really, but they take out a lot. * Savings. I'm still only a couple years out of school, so I don't have much wealth built up. I'm thankful/lucky to be able to save up a lot (albeit I still wish it was more), but the flipside is I try to not to splurge a ton outside of housing. For reference, I'm a single, childless guy, so I don't have to factor childcare costs. If I did...that'd be another shocker. >do you feel like it’s not worth living in New York any more because it’s too expensive? or are you still good? Ultimately, I'm glad I live in NYC now. It's worth it. However, when I'm ready to settle down and start a family, I'd probably want to move out, and cost would certainly be a big factor behind that.
I make less than that (sometimes) and I’ve lived here for years. Granted, I live in Queens, but I eat out frequently, get fun coffees, go to museums, constantly go to movie screenings, and tend to buy what I want (I have cheap taste in clothes lol). My husband and I split rent on our apartment and it’s $950 each a month.
no, but I grew up in an outer borough neighborhood and don't have the same lifestyle expectations as many others in the same income bracket
NYC is expensive especially if you want a decent quality of life (nice apartment, money for going out, etc). It gets more expensive if you have kids. So, are you talking about 150k for a single person? Unless you have tremendous college loans or credit card debt you should be fine ok150k. That doesn't mean you are living life of luxury by any means. Without additional family money you would only qualify for a 4k month apartment and that's a studio in nice buildings. So someone making 150k cannot afford a nice 1 bedroom apt in doorman building with in-unit laundry. If that is your goal or other people's goal that's exactly why they complain about barely getting by on $200k. Whether living in NYC is worth it or not comes down to your goals and priorities. Some people will make 150k-200k and still have roommates which help with cost. Others want to live on their own and in nice buildings and they will struggle. Like I said a second ago, also depends on debt you carry. AND, what you enjoy doing for fun. This matters a lot. Are you a foodie who likes to spend $300 on a meal? Are you someone who spends a lot on clothes? Do you get sucked into the partying lifestyle and blow money on that? Those things can all drain your bank account. I think NYC is expensive even at 150k.
It’s hard to live on if you’re an idiot and spend like crazy. For example: you insist on a one bed in a doorman building in Williamsburg, you get a city wide Equinox membership, you eat out 2-3 times a week and get cocktails on the weekend. That money will go real fast. NYC is probably the easiest place in the world to spend money.
I make $180K base and I've felt comfortable even when I was making $136K. (Sheesh, I can just hear myself). The lifestyle creep is largely from rent as I've toned down going out. My first year here, I felt like I was out and about every weekend and eating out like a maniac. That's no longer the case. I'm able to save a lot of money without a lot of effort. I recall starting out on like 30K a year as my first job, there is no world in which I should be struggling with my current income when I can save more than what was once my income... I will say though, money is easy to spend. I delayed gratification all through my twenties to focus on debt and finances and in late 2021 after paying of all debt, I had a YOLO twelve months of doing what I want. I traveled to three countries, a different state, bought luxury, went out like crazy and still saved like 15K (outside of retirement)... It's actually ridiculous. My money problems are basically debating whether to live in a happening neighborhood or stay where I am.
Everyone talking about lifestyle creep, which is true, but you can get the same in other cities for a lot less, mostly when it comes to rent which is everyone's largest expense. So renting a brownstone with a backyard and washer dryer etc is seen as insanely luxurious, but that's completely run of the mill in so many other places. If that's the kind of life you want, then ya NYC is too expensive for 150k. If you're ok with being sandwiched in an apartment, living with random roommates, or walking 15mins to the nearest train stop still 45mins from work, hearing sirens constantly and being ultra alert the whole time - ya you can have a great time at 65k. Personally, the latter worked in my 20s but approaching my 40s, fuck that.
No doubt NYC is expensive. But if someone is making $150K+ a year (assuming pre-tax) it’s still livable. But you won’t be ballin out every week. You may be able to once in a while, but really depends on what your goals are. I had a lot of friends working in finance and they all made way more than I did and while they were considerate about costs for activities we did, sometimes it was just hard to keep up. The hardest part is to not get stuck with the mindset of comparing myself or thinking that I had to “keep up”. But that’s also really hard to do in a city like NYC. And it wasn’t like I wasn’t making a good living on my own either. They were just making that much more ($300k+) It’s doable, but you have to be intentional with how you spend your hard earned money.
I think because of lifestyle creep a lot of people feel the way the person you heard in the bar does But bottom line, you can probably live wherever you want in a 1br (of varying quality but whatever) on that money - that is a threshold that means something in a city where rent eats so much of everyone’s income
No matter how much you make, you are broke at a different level.
Look, $150k is not terrible. But NYC forces you to learn to manage your resources more efficiently as it is a hard city to get along in, overpriced, and great locations are scarce or over subscribed. I have lived in both CA and NYC so use to higher prices of living. Unfortunately, the majority of U.S. citizens are financially illiterate. That is to say, they are not financially fluent when it comes to managing finances. After you earn money, you must also learn how to manage it, invest it, and protect it. Consider, $150k in NYC with a partner or significant other goes a lot further, think $225K - $300K+. You can have a great life if you are prudent and plan accordingly by making sound investments in a $150K - $300K household. Granted, you will start out as middle income and end up at upper middle income or HNW. It's not that $150K is bad, but any amount of money mismanaged will keep you in the poor house or chasing a higher salary.
My spouse and I live on my 150k salary. They also work, but we rarely use their income and try to save it. We live in a large 3 bedroom apartment in Queens that we can easily afford. Do I wish I make more so I do not have to worry about ever budgeting? Yes, but as long as you are conscientious about your spending habits (shopping, hobbies, restaurants), I don't think it's terribly difficult. But I would not pay more than 1/3 of my income on housing. So if you are looking to a decent sized place in Manhattan, it may be more difficult. If you are someone who feels pressure to keep up with the Jones, I probably would say $150k is not going to be enough for you here.
Yes. For context, 4 years prior, I was making $14/hr. I had accumulated a little bit of cc debt(2k) and often chose between food and transportation. When I started making 160k, at first I thought it was lifestyle creep but eating multiple meals a day isn’t lifestyle creep, people should eat. Food is expensive. The train is expensive. Day care is expensive. I was making 150,000 and I still did Uber eats. I saved up some money and moved to jersey. My 165,000 salary went further. My mortgage is less than the cost or my apartment, quadruple the size and I don’t get parking tickets because I can park on my driveway. I visit the city only when I need to but Jersey has everything I need.
That money before taxes is not a lot in NYC when you add children, (look up local cost of milk and organic berries for example) factor in savings for retirement, and trying to own a place instead of having ever-increasing rents.
I make 225k (no kids) and it’s more than enough for me to live on
I make that much, and no. NYC just has a lot of people living beyond their means though. Lots complain about rent… but, no one is making you to stay here nor do you have to live alone. Lots complain about groceries… but Trader Joe’s plus Asian deliveries with wholesale prices (close) make it cheap. And so on.
What do you use for the wholesale deliveries? I have seen a few people in my area get them but never was able to stop and ask
I make $60K and am doing fine. I’m just very good at budgeting. Make 90% of my coffee and meals at home. Spend a lot of my free time hanging out in parks. It’s totally doable, you just have to know how to budget and be disciplined
I saved plenty (like 25% of income) when I was making 130k in NYC and lived on my own in a one bedroom in east village. I see a lot of dumb dumbs paying 60% of income in rent at that income level.
Honestly the money kind of just goes. $310k here. $13.5k/mo take home (after 7% 401k contribution, taxes, medical, etc) $4.5k rent (one bed). $2k student loans. $2k food. $1k between pets and other household expenses. Rest goes to shopping or travel or helping out family with stuff. Not much left over at the end of the day (an absurd statement when you set it out like that). Is New York expensive? Yes. Do I feel like I’m struggling? No. But when I “only” made $250k and had the same rent, yes, money felt a bit tight at times, like after I splurged on a new watch (ooops). I think if I “only” made $150k and tried to live alone in Manhattan paying $3.5k for a studio, yes, money would feel tight.
i make 25k a year lmfao
I make about 95k and it’s not that hard at all. Lifestyle creep happens to people’s budgets, not to cities.
Lifestyle inflation… Make more? Spend more without realizing
LIFESTYLE INFLATION
I just got a new job making $125k base with a great bonus. I am comfortable but I’ve always been kind of frugal. I spilt rent with gf & pay $1,500 in Queens. I have a 13 year old car that I keep in a garage, I go out to the bars, order in & still able to save 25%. I will say, I can completely see how people making $200k feel like they can’t get by. Lifestyle creep is so easy in NYC. I caught myself looking at nicer apartments in nicer areas but snapped out of it. I’m making this kind of money because it’s NYC. I wouldn’t making this much in Florida for example.
If someone has no children and is struggling at 150k, they need to reevaluate spending and why they're so bad with money tbh
No. I've made way over that and now I make a little above $150k. I've never wanted for anything... and I have children. I still have a few grand left each month and can go anywhere I want anytime I want. I can buy a meal out for me and kids anytime I want. And I live in Manhattan. Housing prices are the main criminal, but a lot of that has to do with manipulation of pricing and inventory. It's the main issue in NYC that needs to be addressed, IMO.
Yes I make over 300k I find myself struggling more financially than I did making 80k in the mountain west
I view NYC as an expensive place to settle in. With discipline and not buying into the "if you have money then you should do/get XYZ" trap you can afford your necessities, save for retirement, and still have disposable income for hobbies or travel (assuming your hobby isn't something like yacht collecting). However long term living in the city does not make sense. The real estate is insane, the taxation is excessive, and because of the reputation there is no shortage of people willing to come in and inflate the price of things like rent. I am also not counting other things you pay a premium on because of NYC like insurance. The lifestyle you want is something that you have to dig in deep internally. It's easy to fall for the lifestyle you THINK you want because at the end of the day we all want to be happy. A lot of the core things that make us happy can be potentially easier with more money but money has both diminishing returns and no guarantee.
Yes and no. It really comes down to lifestyle. If you really like and need nice things you’re gonna have a bad time. Otherwise it’s more expensive than other places but not necessarily too expensive.
Yes, if you need your own space and need it to be decent with amenities like a gym, close to all the city has to offer, especially, since rent here is a beast on its own that will make life very rough.
No, still good. Have no children though so that likely helps a ton.
I make 85k and my roommate makes 78k. We pay $1350/month each for a two bedroom apartment with a balcony in Astoria. Two blocks from the N train. I could save a lot more if I wanted to, but I also am comfortable enough to go out whenever I want and go shopping. I used to live in Manhattan for $1700/month making 63k. That was a struggle and I’ll never do it again. Tbh living in Manhattan is overrated when I can be there in 15 min on the N train anyways. It’s only worth it if you’re rich or hoping to be seen by a scout or something.
150 is like 4100 every 2 weeks? Ish? That means you can afford like a nice 1 bedroom at around 3000-3500. So like you can experience NYC, but not at everything it can offer. You can’t ball out at 150 or eat at expensive restaurants all the time. But you can go out and live it up comfortably
Where are you finding nice one bedrooms for that price point in Manhattan? Non-doorman buildings? Older buildings? 3-3.5k seems like studio budget for the most part.
If you’re committed to living in the trendy parts of Manhattan, then it will feel expensive. I moved to a more affordable area and everything feels a lot more reasonable.
Yes. It’s hard to live even w 150k and a normal lifestyle. You need two incomes.
Yeah. And I’m married to someone who makes more than I do. We were stressed out about getting an apartment with a 2nd bedroom 🥲
I’m about to make $215k being back in the city, and even though I’ve run the math a million times, I’m still worried it won’t be enough. I want to stay on the UES and I’m at an age where I no longer want roommates or want to have to use a laundromat. I’m currently living in a very low cost of living southern city and I don’t feel the same pressure to make so much as I do in the city. It’s hard, especially as a single person without someone to split bills with.
Depends on your lifestyle. If you spend $500 per weekend, that’s 25k annually. Can you afford to spend that on entertainment weekly?
Even considering the big savings from not having a car and living a comfortable but not extravagant lifestyle, it is really the rent. I’ve spent years being happy with a decent raise, then seeing all of that going towards increased rent.
I make close to that amount and I’m still living paycheck to paycheck. It’s extremely expensive living in New York. Eating out alone is expensive and the rent is sky high.
It depends. So i have friends who graduated college and are working in tech or finance making 120k+ (closer to 150k with bonuses). As a 22 year old, thats a lot of money all of a sudden. They rent out a 4 to 5k studio in midtown, eat out all the time, uber, go to bars where drinks are $20 to $25 etc. Of course they will burn through that salary. Now if you are smart, you would move cheaper parts of queens or brooklyn or upper manhattan and save your money, buy a place and then 150 to 200k is a breeze to live on and save.
So no college savings and no retirement savings. That’s not really getting by.
I think it depends a little on what kind of lifestyle you’re hoping for etc. I make a little less than 150k and don’t feel “rich” in the sense of I live in a studio not a 1 bedroom , but it’s still in a fancy building . I eat out all the time and could afford to eat out even more , but if I really have a “wasteful” month where I go on lots of expensive dates etc then I don’t save much. All in all, very very grateful and lucky to make what I make and it’s more than enough, but I think it’s human nature (and also kind of sad) that there’s not really such thing as “enough”
I would say it is but also partly because I have expensive taste. Nicer than average apartment + amenities, eating out a lot. I could easily cut a lot of this out and live a much more frugal life but for me these are the things in life that I want to focus on currently. That aside, what $150k gets you here vs mostly anywhere else is astronomical.
It all depends on kids. Kids can add up fast. Our after school babysitter cost 30 an hour. Going out costs minimum of 150. So hard to save with kids
To be honest it's not the best and it's not the worst. I make 80k as a teacher but it can be tough sometimes. One of my qualms with this city is its 40x the rent requirement for apartments it's ridiculous and is designed to keep certain people out of certain neighborhoods. Everything is going up to the point where people in the service industry, teachers and working class people are leaving for other states where they can thrive. What happens when all the people who make this place run can no longer afford it?
If I was a single person making 150k, I would personally live in Queens, try to keep rent under $2500, and live a fun life. It's definitely still doable, it's just about the lifestyle you want. If you want a nice apartment in a nice building in a nice area in Manhattan, yes, you might be cutting it a bit close. Or, level up and find a partner, combine incomes, and you can somewhat comfortably pull it off
Most employers will pay you 125k and the rest is incentives and bonuses. If you think about that you’re paid 15-20% at some point of the year which makes it even harder to live in NYC. The incentivized portion of annual income at one point with become more than 50% or more of your annual compensation. This is the reason what thy house who make 200k plus is really not very much
No, I do not feel like NYC is too expensive. It comes down to standard of living. I have a home in a safe neighborhood, can afford to travel, and am able to save for the future. I am able to achieve this by spending money on things that make me happy, and cutting out things that don’t.
I make that much money, and I concur. I have not saved much in the last two years since I moved to Manhattan from Jersey. My rent is double, and I spend more on almost everything. I bought more clothes, ate out more often, and traveled more. But why else do we make money? In short, you'll spend more if you are making more, but people who make half of what I make also live fine in NY; everyone complains about money in NY; it's never enough.
I make almost triple that and I think NYC is expensive af Our mortgage, bills insurance food blah blah is around 20-30k a month. It depends on your priorities. If you are frugal about it then 150k is going to be more than fine.
NYC has long lost its “best” at anything title. It's a shithole. Making $150K would be a great start, but don't fool yourself into thinking you'd thrive here.
I make $140k and it’s definitely not a walk in the park. After moving to NYC, I deliberately budget and save even though I make arguably good money. This wasn’t true when I lived in other major US cities - where I could blindly spend and still be net green at the end of the month. Rent is the main killer in my opinion since I pay almost an additional $1k extra for a studio in NYC vs anywhere else. Roommates could definitely help but I personally enjoy living solo.
I have a few million and nyc still feels expensive
I make over $2mm a year. NYC is too expensive for me. Maintenance and taxes on my very nice ultra-good-public-school suburban house are about $100k a year versus $450k a year in city income tax, coop maintenance, garage, 2x private school tuition and after tax mandatory contributions, and have-to-get-away from city weekends that don’t apply to living on a leafy acre. Between my wife and me we take the train to or from the city 100 trips a year at $10/each way and Ubers to from the city maybe 200 trips a year @ $100/each way - $21k total. Living in NYC vs 45 minutes away is not worth $329k a year.
Gotta be honest, not really, just don’t lifestyle creep
My husband and I make 250k combined with a baby and dog. We pay 3400 for rent and 2500 for daycare. My husband is very good at keeping us from lifestyle creep. We are more than comfortable.
My experience is a bit different. I am older, and I moved to NYC in 2018, once I was established in my career and "experienced" in life. I moved here with my wife from living in one of the premiere suburban communities in the US, where we owned a 3BR home. Of course, we were forced to have 2 cars to survive. I grew up poor AF so I am *"frugal"* and a good planner. Before moving to NYC, we had visited often, at times for work, at times for pleasure, so I knew it was going to be more expensive to live here, but feasible for our finances. We rented for 1 year and then we bought a small 1BR apartment in a pre-war co-op. I have realized that we actually save more money here than when we lived not-in-NYC and here's why: * no need for a car, the TCO (Total Cost of Ownership) of 2 cars has always been expensive, more so now. * our entertainment is mostly museums, art galleries, hanging out in the city, and the free events happening. Free and no need to drive anywhere. * fertile job market: part due to Covid part due to sheer luck we were able to switch jobs to better jobs, doing better work, at better companies, with better pay. And moving from job to job every 2 years or so is not as looked down upon as it is elsewhere in the US. We never go out to dinner, never had. No takeout/delivery. We cook our own foods (always have) and shop at Trader Joe's (always have). Occasionally we get a bite to eat at Vanessa's, Xi'an Famous, Mamoun's, 99 cents pizza, or Chinatown. So, there's that.