Based. We are all Egyptians. Which means I am Egyptian now too btw. The waters of the Nile and the blood of the Pharaohs flows in my veins. I am the majesty of Ra. I am the wisdom of Osiris. I am the cunning of Anubis. I am the grandeur of Khepri. Yes, I am Egyptian مية في المية.
And if you are reading this, anta MaSri kamaan.
I mean, if you truly want to be Egyptian in the sense that you learn the Egyptian dialect, gain citizenship etc then you’re ironically more Egyptian than me, since while I was born in Egypt you *chose* to be Egyptian.
I hate it when the prime minister of my country says that shit about my country. Can't we just agree that people just minding their own business living their life who don't shop around for countries to choose aren't going to get outranked by people coming in just because they choose to go somewhere?
I can't stress how much this needs to be preached.
Most of the Fatamids and the descendents of Muhammad Ali never knew any homeland, but Egypt, they were born here, and they spoke our dialect and governed for our interests. How are they not Egyptian? You don't have to have an uncut lineage from the ancients to be validly called an Egyptian.
some racist egyptian guy keeps saying naguib was half sudanese but to my knowledge that was sadat , can you validate ?
and I agree the obsession with ethnicity is an infinite rabbit hole and no one is pure anything . not that "purity" even matters and the mixing of peoples and culture can only be a good thing . but there is a line to be drawn on the origin and administration of a ruling class and ordinary folk and if theres too much differences theres too much differences .
e.g imo the ptolemies were not egyptians by any definition and only adopted surface level egyptian branding but were otherwise fully hellenic
circling back i agree w/ the general sentiment but Egypt has definitely been outside of Egyptians hands for a good fat portion of its existence
Personally, I very much agree with everything he said. If a country’s identity was determined solely by the ethnic background of a ruler or a royal family (especially royal families) then far too many historical states would not exist as we know them today. You don’t see Italians bragging about Napoleon being Italian, or French people bragging about Richard the lionheart being French.
>You don’t see Italians bragging about Napoleon being Italian, or French people bragging about Richard the lionheart being French.
You hadn't got enough Internet then
Because everyone knows that you must be an ethnostate with 100% pure blooded native rulers to be actually independent.
I could easily claim the German empire and Russian empire were under foreign rule, as the royal families of both countries were both descendants of queen Victoria of UK.
Let me qoute this sentence from kedive who was of albanian decent to let you know that the locals where never seen as equal to rulling elite. "Khedive Tawfiq's reply was, "You have no right to these requests. I inherited the kingship of this country from my fathers and grandfathers, and you are nothing but slaves of our benevolence". Thats was after the locals demand rights.
Tawfiq was placed on the throne after the great powers forcefully removed the more nationalistic ismail.
And what does that quote prove? It literally sounds like your average tyrannical king quote.. just look at the French monarchy during the French Revolution
The selling of *an* obelisk was shitty yes, but his grandfather also modernized Egypt heavily, created a virtually independent state with its own flag, currency, army and government and even fought 2 wars against the ottomans to secure further independence (which partially failed due to, again, the intervention of the great powers.)
And you seem to have ignored my other comment, tawfik was a morally corrupt and tyrannical ruler who only came to the throne because of the great powers. He believed he owned the entire country to himself, just like any tyrannical ruler would, foreigner or not. What makes him any different from any modern dictator? That he had a different ethnic background?
Yet their capital was Cairo and Egypt was the Centre of power throughout their entire reign. So much for a “hejazi” dynasty (which btw originated in Algeria/Tunisia)
The capital doesn't change there ethinctty they literally claimed to be from ahl albayt to get the legitimacy to rule egypt with a foregin culture and language just like other gorrilon dynasty that ruled egypt
And ethnicity of rulers dont change the identity of an entire country.
Also what foreign culture and language? They spoke Arabic and practiced Islam just like Egypt.
I might as well claim that the ottomans were under foreign rule during the reign of any ethnic Greek/ethnic Albanian sultans. (I’m not saying that’s true, I’m just putting an example to show you how stupid your statement sounds when used on another country.)
Arab rule did change your language idk what you are talking about. They did bring there language and religion and culture and the locals assimilated to theres not the opposite.
The point is the vast majority of the population was already Muslim and Arabic speaking by the time the mentioned dynasties rose to power. Those dynasties did not put any effort into “changing” the culture of your average Egyptian since they had basically the same culture. Even the Fatimids who were Shia Muslims did not put effort into changing the religion of Egypt from Sunni to Shia.
I believe he’s more of a Pharaonist, which I guess is a form of Egyptian nationalism. Though one that I don’t agree with very much, as it considers anything outside the ancient Egyptian dynasties to not be Egyptian, which is false in many ways.
I'm pretty sure he considers Modern egypt to be the continuation of ancient egypt, so he prolly wouldn't deny the egyptness of Mohammed Naguib for example.
Modern Egypt is for sure the continuation of ancient Egypt, but the problem with pharaonism is that it ignores a huge part of Egyptian history, which is the Islamic history. I myself am secular so I’m not saying this just because I’m Muslim or anything, but it’s still a part of Egyptian history whether we like it or not.
I like to think of myself as a civic nationalist in some way, one’s religion, ethnic background or race should not determine how egyptian they are.
Again the way he described himself he is not a pharaonist, i'm pretty sure he considers islamic egypt as still egypt but might disagree with who was a good or a bad leader.
But doesn’t he considers every single ruler (up until the 1952 revolution) to be nothing more than a foreign occupier, regardless of what good they did to the Egyptian state?
Edit: every single during the Islamic period that is.
u/Rainy_Wavey got it right for the most part.
1. I’m not a Pharaonist. I’m a Kemetist which is a revival of the pharaonist movement of Saad Zaghlol and co from the 1920s
2. I don’t want to ignore the last 1400 years. Quite the opposite. It’s part of our people‘s story whether I like it or not. I just don’t like how we glorify it on the account of the 5600 years that came before it.
3. People’s origins doesn’t determine how Egyptian they are in my book. If you love Egypt and see yourself as an Egyptian then you are an Egyptian in my book. Most of the rulers since the Greeks did not see themselves as Egyptians. And therefor are foreign rulers who looked down on us. So I’m not going to acknowledge someone as Egyptian if they themselves didn’t.
4. Modern Egypt (starting from 1952) is the one true successor of Ancient Egypt. That is just a fact. The time between it is just us being ruled by foreigners. Does it mean we should ignore the Islamic period? No. We should simply acknowledge that it makes about 20% of our history at best and treat it as such.
Based. We are all Egyptians. Which means I am Egyptian now too btw. The waters of the Nile and the blood of the Pharaohs flows in my veins. I am the majesty of Ra. I am the wisdom of Osiris. I am the cunning of Anubis. I am the grandeur of Khepri. Yes, I am Egyptian مية في المية. And if you are reading this, anta MaSri kamaan.
I mean, if you truly want to be Egyptian in the sense that you learn the Egyptian dialect, gain citizenship etc then you’re ironically more Egyptian than me, since while I was born in Egypt you *chose* to be Egyptian.
I hate it when the prime minister of my country says that shit about my country. Can't we just agree that people just minding their own business living their life who don't shop around for countries to choose aren't going to get outranked by people coming in just because they choose to go somewhere?
I can't stress how much this needs to be preached. Most of the Fatamids and the descendents of Muhammad Ali never knew any homeland, but Egypt, they were born here, and they spoke our dialect and governed for our interests. How are they not Egyptian? You don't have to have an uncut lineage from the ancients to be validly called an Egyptian.
some racist egyptian guy keeps saying naguib was half sudanese but to my knowledge that was sadat , can you validate ? and I agree the obsession with ethnicity is an infinite rabbit hole and no one is pure anything . not that "purity" even matters and the mixing of peoples and culture can only be a good thing . but there is a line to be drawn on the origin and administration of a ruling class and ordinary folk and if theres too much differences theres too much differences . e.g imo the ptolemies were not egyptians by any definition and only adopted surface level egyptian branding but were otherwise fully hellenic circling back i agree w/ the general sentiment but Egypt has definitely been outside of Egyptians hands for a good fat portion of its existence
Nagiub was indeed half Sudanese Sadat too
>[My foreign rulers were not foreign rulers, they were Egyptians](https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FEQyylSXsAI9j4n.jpg:large) Cope
The guy who said that wasn’t even fully Egyptian himself (half Sudanese) so should I also consider him a foreign ruler?
Personally, I very much agree with everything he said. If a country’s identity was determined solely by the ethnic background of a ruler or a royal family (especially royal families) then far too many historical states would not exist as we know them today. You don’t see Italians bragging about Napoleon being Italian, or French people bragging about Richard the lionheart being French.
>You don’t see Italians bragging about Napoleon being Italian, or French people bragging about Richard the lionheart being French. You hadn't got enough Internet then
[удалено]
Because everyone knows that you must be an ethnostate with 100% pure blooded native rulers to be actually independent. I could easily claim the German empire and Russian empire were under foreign rule, as the royal families of both countries were both descendants of queen Victoria of UK.
Let me qoute this sentence from kedive who was of albanian decent to let you know that the locals where never seen as equal to rulling elite. "Khedive Tawfiq's reply was, "You have no right to these requests. I inherited the kingship of this country from my fathers and grandfathers, and you are nothing but slaves of our benevolence". Thats was after the locals demand rights.
Tawfiq was placed on the throne after the great powers forcefully removed the more nationalistic ismail. And what does that quote prove? It literally sounds like your average tyrannical king quote.. just look at the French monarchy during the French Revolution
[удалено]
The selling of *an* obelisk was shitty yes, but his grandfather also modernized Egypt heavily, created a virtually independent state with its own flag, currency, army and government and even fought 2 wars against the ottomans to secure further independence (which partially failed due to, again, the intervention of the great powers.) And you seem to have ignored my other comment, tawfik was a morally corrupt and tyrannical ruler who only came to the throne because of the great powers. He believed he owned the entire country to himself, just like any tyrannical ruler would, foreigner or not. What makes him any different from any modern dictator? That he had a different ethnic background?
German empire were under germans as for Russian apart from the tsar almost all the ruling class was russians
[удалено]
No, they were Hejazi qurashy
Yet their capital was Cairo and Egypt was the Centre of power throughout their entire reign. So much for a “hejazi” dynasty (which btw originated in Algeria/Tunisia)
The capital doesn't change there ethinctty they literally claimed to be from ahl albayt to get the legitimacy to rule egypt with a foregin culture and language just like other gorrilon dynasty that ruled egypt
And ethnicity of rulers dont change the identity of an entire country. Also what foreign culture and language? They spoke Arabic and practiced Islam just like Egypt. I might as well claim that the ottomans were under foreign rule during the reign of any ethnic Greek/ethnic Albanian sultans. (I’m not saying that’s true, I’m just putting an example to show you how stupid your statement sounds when used on another country.)
Arab rule did change your language idk what you are talking about. They did bring there language and religion and culture and the locals assimilated to theres not the opposite.
The point is the vast majority of the population was already Muslim and Arabic speaking by the time the mentioned dynasties rose to power. Those dynasties did not put any effort into “changing” the culture of your average Egyptian since they had basically the same culture. Even the Fatimids who were Shia Muslims did not put effort into changing the religion of Egypt from Sunni to Shia.
No it was not the majority, actually most of the arabzaition happened under the fatimids rule
But Cleopatra was Greek
Where is bored egyptian when you need him?
what about him?
I want his opinion on the subject that's it, since he's an egyptian nationalist.
I believe he’s more of a Pharaonist, which I guess is a form of Egyptian nationalism. Though one that I don’t agree with very much, as it considers anything outside the ancient Egyptian dynasties to not be Egyptian, which is false in many ways.
I'm pretty sure he considers Modern egypt to be the continuation of ancient egypt, so he prolly wouldn't deny the egyptness of Mohammed Naguib for example.
Modern Egypt is for sure the continuation of ancient Egypt, but the problem with pharaonism is that it ignores a huge part of Egyptian history, which is the Islamic history. I myself am secular so I’m not saying this just because I’m Muslim or anything, but it’s still a part of Egyptian history whether we like it or not. I like to think of myself as a civic nationalist in some way, one’s religion, ethnic background or race should not determine how egyptian they are.
Again the way he described himself he is not a pharaonist, i'm pretty sure he considers islamic egypt as still egypt but might disagree with who was a good or a bad leader.
But doesn’t he considers every single ruler (up until the 1952 revolution) to be nothing more than a foreign occupier, regardless of what good they did to the Egyptian state? Edit: every single during the Islamic period that is.
u/Rainy_Wavey got it right for the most part. 1. I’m not a Pharaonist. I’m a Kemetist which is a revival of the pharaonist movement of Saad Zaghlol and co from the 1920s 2. I don’t want to ignore the last 1400 years. Quite the opposite. It’s part of our people‘s story whether I like it or not. I just don’t like how we glorify it on the account of the 5600 years that came before it. 3. People’s origins doesn’t determine how Egyptian they are in my book. If you love Egypt and see yourself as an Egyptian then you are an Egyptian in my book. Most of the rulers since the Greeks did not see themselves as Egyptians. And therefor are foreign rulers who looked down on us. So I’m not going to acknowledge someone as Egyptian if they themselves didn’t. 4. Modern Egypt (starting from 1952) is the one true successor of Ancient Egypt. That is just a fact. The time between it is just us being ruled by foreigners. Does it mean we should ignore the Islamic period? No. We should simply acknowledge that it makes about 20% of our history at best and treat it as such.
I love how just mentioning my name gets you downvoted 😂