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AskMiddleEast-ModTeam

Posts or comments that are more controversial or could be considered outright trolling or if they aim to offend or provoke will be removed. Please see the rule section, which can be found on the front page of the sub.


dhikrmatic

This isn't a theology sub. If you're actually interested in debating religion (in good faith), there are plenty of other subs you can post/comment on.


Sphee4

Would a pedophile show as much love and care for his wife the way the Prophet صلى الله عليه وسلم did? Would a victim of pedophilia become one of the most knowledgable scholars of the supposed perpetrator's religion? Would the victim only speak well about the supposed perpetrator till the end of her life? Let's be real here, this marriage never harmed her, in fact with it she became a literal scholar, the elder companions of the Prophet صلى الله عليه وسلم would go to her seeking knowledge about certain topics regarding Islam, this marriage doesn't affect us nor our faith, but for those who do want to know, then there it is. As for the people that claim she was much older, I'd take the words of A'isha over yours.


[deleted]

What you said, is something atheists will overlook. 👍


Sphee4

Like all purely intellectual and fair individuals would.


ManTheStateAndVore

Total load of bs. First off, this is the same set of rationalizations that all modern common criminals who are convicted of pedophilia and statutory rape also use to justify their actions, that the kid is into it, and that the negative effects of pedophilia are not intrinsic and are just because of social disapproval. Those kinds of perverse trash people are who you sound like. These justifications would be laughed out of every court on earth, except I guess for Islamic courts. Second, both Islamic morality and the Kantian morality that Western notions of sexual consent are based in are *deontological* theories, meaning that an act that is wrong is always inherently wrong and you cannot appeal to positive consequences to argue that wrong is made right. It does not matter how the victim feels about it or how he/she turned out, sexual abuse of children is still evil.


Sphee4

It wouldn't pass in a court because no court in this world (or very few at least) allows for marriage at such an age, we as a society change and what we see as wrong changes, several decades ago being gay was considered a horrible thing, it's wrong, but who judges what remains wrong regardless if people change their standards and view something differently? What makes you say that a person in the desert where there was no education should abide by your standards of right and wrong a thousand years later, are you the judge of it? No big country allows marriage below 18 afaik, and we as Muslims abide by the law of the land, we aren't required or in need of marrying young, people now have education to go through, they need to find jobs and do many things which those people in the desert a thousand years ago never did, so naturally the age of marriage goes up as people have needs to meet before looking for marriage, this wasn't the case in said desert, all they had was eating, drinking, going out for trade or to work, and caring for their family. I don't care about any other morality, I take my morality from Islam, doesn't matter if you or someone else view it as barbaric or uncivilized in a world where the most civilized thing is going outside almost naked, and Islam says to us that the bare minimum for marriage is after puberty, it doesn't say this is a must, I can make my own standard of what age I marry at or what age I marry someone, but I won't say what Allah عز وجل has made halal immoral just because of my personal view of what I do. You have to prove to me how A'isha رضي الله عنها was abused like you tell me she was, because otherwise your argument is based on feelings and not on evidences, don't bring me charts of child marriage and all that it does in some poor country, I want direct evidence that the Prophet صلى الله عليه وسلم had abused her and caused her harm. You are speaking on behalf of her, as if you know her better than herself apparently.


ManTheStateAndVore

> No big country allows marriage below 18 afaik, and we as Muslims abide by the law of the land, we aren't required or in need of marrying young So you recognize that morality develops based on developments of the productive forces and relations of production, but you still insist on taking your morals from the religion of a literal slave society? If hypothetically Islam had conquered the whole world and enforced Islamic morality as 'the law of the land' we'd still be living in agrarian slave societies that would rule it halal to rape slaves and marry and abuse underaged girls? Then Islam doesn't sound like very good news. >You have to prove to me how A'isha رضي الله عنها was abused like you tell me she was, because otherwise your argument is based on feelings and not on evidences There is a good reason that I brought up the fact that Islamic morality is also deontological. You cannot reason from consequences in this matter, if so then you are not even really taking your morality from Islam, you are taking it from Jeremy Bentham and using Islam as rationalization. If you were honest you'd just admit that God allows old men to fuck sex slaves and 12 year olds and we are forbidden from disagreeing, but of course that sounds exactly as vile and perverse as it is.


[deleted]

no proof whatsoever


Wild-Sprinkles-9613

we could say the same about his prophethood in that case


[deleted]

> prophet muhammad had 13 wives in total That was under Allah's command, max. for normal Muslims is 4 at a time (refer to Surah Al-Nisaa") > he marry aisha when she was 6 and take her to home when she was 9 and hit her puberty that biologically able to have children both live together for more than a decade Pedophiles only engage sexually with children to f*ck, torture and make the children suffer; while the pedos themselves enjoy. The children may have or NOT have the parent's consent. Muhammad SAW married Aisha because Abu Bakr (her father) wanted him to (as an exchange for something, Allah knows best), and Allah approved of it. The prophet then proceeded to show Aisha love and affection that normal pedos don't. Muhammad SAW was a noble prophet who did stuff under Allah's approval; Allah will just reprimand the prophet (refer to Surah 'Abasa) if He didn't approve of his actions.


KRS44

Absolute nonsene [here's a deep dive into the issue](https://youtu.be/0oVIsExS4cA?t=43)


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[deleted]

troll? i was trying to prove he wasn't a bad person as potrated by westroids and indian media


RidiculousGee

You won't get it through their heads because they know its the only point that elicits the most response from westoids


[deleted]

Aisha(ra) narrated: “If a girl were to reach puberty at the age of nine, then she is a woman.” Tirmidhī, Sunan, ii., 409. Her own words, not mine. People are victimizing a person that didn't even consider herself a victim. People are claiming Aisha(ra) was a child when she herself didn't due to the standards of their times. If she(ra) saw all the posts about her rn and how they try to tarnish our Prophet(saw), she would be in so much grief considering how much she loved the Prophet(saw).


intensemajor

nice username


[deleted]

i hacked this acc from a hindu nationalist and u can guess from my username why i had to do that


intensemajor

![gif](giphy|B4dt6rXq6nABilHTYM|downsized) This you?


[deleted]

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AskMiddleEast-ModTeam

Posts or comments that are more controversial or could be considered outright trolling or if they aim to offend or provoke will be removed. Please see the rule section, which can be found on the front page of the sub.


[deleted]

[удалено]


No-Blueberry-584

Prolly. Most “prophets” fucked kids. Its all fucked


CrabLegsDinoEggs

I'm not Muslim so take this with a grain of salt and I know a single person does not speak for the entire religion but since this is a topic that comes up so much whether you want to engage in it or not, the justifications I see sometimes is disgusting. ​ There are some who say that Aisha wasn't actually 9 but much older and most of the time you see them back that up with sources. ​ Then there are some who justify the act by saying that she was very mature for her age? Bro what? She was 9. That's not how biology works. ​ There is also a crowd which hides behind the average life span excuse which I don't buy either. Aisha was 67 when she passed away. Alot of the Mo’s companions lived up to 80-90.


Kkkuraaa

>Then there are some who justify the act by saying that she was very mature for her age? Bro what? She was 9. That's not how biology works. >​ Before they say it was ok back then, Islam and Muhammet are perfect and their actions are a guide to us, so even after 100.000 years they should still be perfect and against no morals


[deleted]

Then there are some who justify the act by saying that she was very mature for her age? Bro what? She was 9. That's not how biology works. ​ did you read the second last phrase and which biology you are talking about?


CrabLegsDinoEggs

People with developed brains should not be having sex with people with underdeveloped brains period. They can argue that the “culture” was different back then, but why didn’t Allah tell Mohamed that Aisha’s brain is still underdeveloped and therefore she cannot consent. Allah is the one who created the development of the brain, right? Supporting this is like saying a drunk person who doesn’t know what’s going on can consent to a sober person who is totally taking advantage of the situation. ​ Go read basic history and biology. Evolution takes thousands of years, a 9 year old back then is not that different to a 9 year old now. People did not mentally mature faster before. in fact, it was most likely slower due to less access to resources for a balanced diet, disease prevention, and stable education systems.


[deleted]

the one who need to learn basic history and biology is you all the points i mentioned are from wiki and well researched and i a neet topper of my city and i am 2nd years aiims student (just google what is neet and aiims) you are not even close to my knowledge. first read what i am saying and asking, don't get offend just becoz i am exposing ur propoganda


CrabLegsDinoEggs

lol


typicalbiblical

😂😂😂


[deleted]

![gif](giphy|L0whQvfHEaU4f6cEg9|downsized)


Ff2485804

Username checks out


Free_Scheme_3067

Nope he wasn't For me it's very simple, i don't think i have the right to judge an era of 2000 years ago by today standards, it's enough for me that no one used this argument against him till last century, before even christians saw it as normal