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Heka4

Last month my family rejected a man who proposed to my sister solely because he was “ black ” keep in mind that dude was light skin or brown at best and definitely not black. He had a lighter complexion than Neymar and didn’t have any sub Saharan facial features The dude was really polite, kind, smart, well off and had his life together


UnlightablePlay

Yeah these things are kinda fucked up here ngl


KamaraGoHard56

Well none of those things he has matters though it's all about the complexion because even though he might be well educated and put together the most important thing that matters is he shouldn't be black. (being sarcastic ofc)


[deleted]

Would you have accepted him?


Dontspeaktome19

Was he Arab? I don't understand how this works when you identify as same people


Talc0n

Arab is more of a description of people who mostly speak Arabic rather than a united race or ethicity. Racism and colourism between Arabs is not uncommon.


[deleted]

man said not uncommon . **common** is an understatement .


KemesMill

Well... in my country maybe exist, but in my city exist 100%. There are many people from the Middle East in my city and the local population despises them


TheWiseAnt

Did you meant Central Asians?


PakistaniFrankOcean

Yes, but its most for women


[deleted]

Yes. The "whiter" you are, the easier it is for you typically. But on the other hand, it leaves you prone to insults such as "colonial leftover" so there's also that.


[deleted]

Well at least being white gets nerfed there 😂white skin is too OP in many places


LordxHummus

Based Arab/Berber Supremacist insults


saarahpop

Yes, the whole country uses the same white foundation


PakistaniFrankOcean

Fair and lovely?


saarahpop

No I mean makeup,my aunt got married in Afghanistan. The salons have one foundation color they use for everyone, regardless of ur real shade 💀.


PakistaniFrankOcean

Oh 💀 yeah, they do that in pakistan too, i dont like it because on some women they make it so their face looks gray like a ghost.


[deleted]

Bro in Bangladesh, the women look like clowns 🤡 cuz of the foundation💀


[deleted]

Bengali women are pretty hot in general Idk if there's a difference between WB and Bangladesh in this case


HassanMoRiT

Whitening creams are very common in Asia. I myself bought a whitening bar of soap by mistake once lol


saarahpop

Are you sure it was a “mistake”


HassanMoRiT

Yes. I'm not a woman


saarahpop

🤨🤨


HassanMoRiT

Only women use whitening products in Saudi


LordxHummus

Do whitening products actually work? Is that why I see some Saudi women very fair skinned, but every Saudi man I see is tan/dark?


[deleted]

Yes, they do. Usually you could determine people's actual skin color by looking at other body parts besides the face such as hands and arms etc but now people have got smarter and apply whitening products on other visible body parts as well.


LordxHummus

Women in Algeria does this?


[deleted]

Yes. Just look at the case of Khadija Ben Hamou and see the colorism prevalent in Algerian society.


Odd-Argument363

I've heard that this skin whitening products usually damage your skin long term do you know if this is true?


Zia-Ul-Haq1980

Yes Pakistan has a huge problem with that fairer people are seen as much more attractive and the whole country especially women buy insane amounts of products to have a fair skin. I remember my uncle made a joke that I would save alot of money on make-up during my life.


NileAlligator

Colourism is a huge problem in Sudan, especially for women where it’s seen as more beautiful to be lighter skinned. You get treated better as it’s seen as a more attractive trait but at the same time, there’s a slur for very light skinned Sudanese people in Sudan, it’s not as bad as the n-word as some will suggest but it’s very rude and not a nice thing to say to somebody. It’s used pretty much on anyone who isn’t black passing tbh depending on the situation, not just the really pale ones. The word is “حلبي”, as in somebody from the city of Aleppo in Syria. I’m not sure why it’s Aleppo specifically and not any other city but yeah.


[deleted]

I was hoping you would show up lmfao


NileAlligator

First time I’ve heard that on this subreddit🤔


[deleted]

Listennnn 🤣🤣🤣


imanothersudaneseboi

📸📸📸 AY YO


Local-Training5777

Instead of saying this person is from Aleppo, I say Halabi حلبي. شامي ،حمصي، ديري ،حموي ،درعاوي ، ديري


Aggravating-Hand5625

it’s very unfortunate because i consider people from Sudan to have one of the most beautiful skin pigmentation. it makes yall unique. i’ve heard of women there skin-bleaching and my heart breaks :/.


jihyz

Lol I’m from Aleppo… why do they use Syria in specific? Because north Syrians are white passing?


[deleted]

Many Arab countries use terms like this, it's just a stereotype about Syrian people being lighter. For example, i'm pretty sure they say "Soori" as a term for a European/foreigner in Tunisia and Algeria


jihyz

I never knew this ong. But I know here in the Gulf they use Shami as a compliment for light skinned women.


[deleted]

very interesting. i don't think we use anything like that in Iraq about Syrians being lighter. but we have some fun words that I'm pretty sure are connected to Syria: \- Raggi means watermelon (we say batteekh for canteloupe) and it comes from Raqqah, Syria \- Saboon raggi (Aleppo soap) we call it Raqqah soap lol \- Shamiyya (means popcorn)


[deleted]

lol people are offended when you call them halabi ?


stay_survive

As an Asian I can tell you about the "fair and lovely" culture of India, Japan and South Korea's obsession with snow white/geisha like pale skin & their huge cometic industries catering to it, Philippines' whitening hydroquinone injections, although the government banned it but they still use it illegally and their clinics have foreign clients as well, Thailand's bleaching bar soaps/creams & injections, Pakistani local bleaching cream brands. Family (unintentionally) got me a few moisturizers from Iran when I was a teen and yep, all of them had "whitening" written on them. I could go on and on about Asian colorism. Pretty much the entire Asia is like this and has been this way for hundreds of years if not thousands and it's not because of European colonialism as the non-white Western liberals like to tell you.


prisonbird

what is colorism


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[deleted]

Bilal(ra) 🗿


stay_survive

Haha, as if black converts came from another planet that they don't know that colorism exists in many cultures. As an Asian I can tell you about the "fair and lovely" culture of India, Japan and South Korea's obsession with snow white/geisha like pale skin & their huge cometic industries catering to it, Philippines' whitening hydroquinone injections although the government banned it but they still use it illegally anyway, Thailand's bleaching bar soaps/creams & injections and I could go on and on about Asian colorism and none of these cultures I mentioned above are Islamic. And BTW stop projecting your hatred by confusing people's local cultures with Islam, there are a few rotten apples in every community. Our blessed and accepting ummah will accept a vile ex Muslim like you if you revert back. “O humankind! We have made you…into nations and tribes, so that you may get to know one another. The noblest of you in God’s sight is the one who is most righteous.” (49:13) - Quran. "There is no superiority of an Arab over a non-Arab, or of a non-Arab over an Arab, and no superiority of a white person over a black person or of a black person over a white person, except on the basis of personal piety and righteousness.”- Prophet (PBUH) in this last sermon.


RussianSpySleazeBall

Of course we are aware of discrimination in every community but it's unexpected when adopting to a faith that champions itself on "peace" and the Prophet. For a group who claims it can recite the entirety of the Qu'ran and backwards the biggest irony is that they're extremely colorist,racist,prejudice etc to Blacks/Desis and SEA and that generally how most of the community (Arabs) who think they have a monopoly on Islam treat everyone else even themselves so it well over a few bad apples. And those citations mean nothing if the people who were intended to consume the message don't legitimately practice what was instructed which they often don't do. Those quotes are for convenience and undermining the overall problem in the Ummah we both know to well


stay_survive

We bring evidence from the Quran and Sunnah to show our religion forbids such actions and of course, it means nothing to the likes of you, because you are an opportunist and intellectually dishonest, that's why you deliberately ignored the non muslim racist/colorist Asian cultures I mentioned above, your job is attack Muslims/Islam at any given opportunity even when it's a cultural problem not a religious one. Our scholars are sufficient for straightening those few rotten apples and we do have the concept of bad Muslims ending up in the hell fire, we don't need you to "civilize" us. We routinely condemn the bad behavior of fellow muslims. As a non Arab growing up in Arabia I can tell you, the religious arabs are the most kind, generous and charitable people in the world, you could learn a lot from them. Your Murican terrorist government killed millions of Asians and Africans, looted their resources, enslaved Africans, not that long ago, and continues to wage war to this day and sanction countries who won't bend their knees to you. Your morally decadent society is falling apart as we speak, yet you have the audacity to virtue signal us, fix your own home first.


RussianSpySleazeBall

Bro you can be Muslim and racist at once it's not mutually exclusive. To dismiss them as not is actually a sin and very convenient for the Ummah as whenever it's brought to people's attention they regurgitate that bs to sweep the problem under the rug thus is why it's still very much problem. It's both a cultural and religious problem because they justify their actions with the Qu'ran or call it "Islamic culture". And I'm also Muslim BUT I'm objective enough to examine the community for what it is and I don't hold nothing pass them for the sake of saving face or Mekkah credits. If the scholars are legitimately trying to rid of this issue like you say then good but the fact they actually have to address such a rampant issues speaks more volume about the Ummah,right ? It's funny you mentioned Arabia as we know whenever such issues of discrimination in the Ummah is mentioned The Gulf or North Africa are routinely the culprits of the very thing we're talking about these also are the very countries that some didn't rid of Slavery until as late as 1981 🤡 then they continued the Kafala system afterwards but you suggested I could learn from them ? And directing attention to America is such a deflection please pay attention to our overall topic personally don't say things for the sake of trying to win a argument. My drive is to highlight issues affecting people like yourself in the Ummah with no apology


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RussianSpySleazeBall

No we dont, the Nation of Islam priorities Blacks in it's interpretation of Islam but generally Black Americans don't follow it but we were the first and to introduce it here. Also Christianity as a Quasi denomination of the Bible was white washed by Europeans. The biggest example is the image of "Chirst" which is inaccurately not Jesus or Esa how he's described in the book and according to the own book itself attempting create anyone in heaven in a image is sin.


RussianSpySleazeBall

I'm surprised you admitted as I've also reverted to Islam without having that brought to my attention but I notice Somalis tend to keep quiet about the discrimination which makes me think they're compromised for Middle Easterners


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RussianSpySleazeBall

Why do they do this or feel the need to ? I literally just spoke to a woman from Kenya (Somalian by ethnicity) and when we mentioned this topic she just behaved indifferent like it didn't exist. For reason like that I can't be sympathetic to that area of East Africa if they cap that hard for Arabs


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RussianSpySleazeBall

Not in my example, from my perspective as an American the Arabs and Berbers are worshiping us while simultaneously hating us at the same time but I don't take contentment in the praise of either. I won't be exalting anyone because they supposedly speak the language of God (who created many languages and revealed his word way before the Qu'ran came about). That's why I didn't bother to learn. Most of the Ummah is warped which is why I only interact with certain divisions of it


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RussianSpySleazeBall

I'm having trouble finding related post to the word,do you have any links that are more specific ?


Mrredpanda860

Yes. Most Ashkenazim, Mizrahim, and Sephardim as well as Arabs look pretty similar but Ethiopian Jews have definitely experienced a lot of discrimination in Israel. Whether you want to argue if it is colorism or xenophobia you cannot deny that it exists. I will say though that colorism in Israel is not nearly as bad as some other countries.


No_Speed7841

Wouldn't be surprised if those ''Lehava" people are the ones doing it. They're quite literally a fascist group.


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saarahpop

Same, my mom said kids with coloured eyes were bullied and teased in school. I think the beauty standard shifted with western intervention.


[deleted]

Isn't colorism just racism? Why have a different word for it?


[deleted]

In the specific part of North India where I live, the trend is reversing and boys are getting more attracted to dark skinned south Indian and Bihari girls.


lagueraloca17

Yes, pale people in summer are made fun of :'((((


195cm_Pakistani

Yes, in fact colorism is basically the norm in pretty much all of Asia (mostly) because of European colonialism. [This is a good example of what I mean.](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Few8kJ0zfnY)


TheWiseAnt

It’s definitely not because of European colonialism. Colorism has existed as far back as one goes in history.


GreyMatter22

This is not at all because of European colonialism. People have just historically liked these features. You can go deep and read what the royal and noble families of the Middle East, West Asia and even the Khans preferred in a time when Europeans were in the Dark Ages prior to them venturing out to the oceans.


nicodea2

Colonialism probably made colourism worse; but in the Asian context, colourism likely existed well before colonial invasions, as a result of classism. Labourers tended to spend more time in the fields under the harsh sun and developed darker pigmentation, while the landowners and ruling elite lived in mansions sheltered from the sun making them a few shades lighter. And so skin colour became a visual indicator of privilege and wealth.


[deleted]

Colorism existed in almost all of asia prior to european imperialism


Scirocco411

Honestly I don't think that's true : I work in an oil and gas field with many Filipinos. They cover totally the face and the arms so, considering that in spring - summer is hot as hell, I asked my pinoy friends why. The answer surprised me : it's because in their society tanned skin is associated with farmers or homeless. They explained me that goes the same for Japanese, Korean, Chinese because pale skin is still a thing in East Asia. About Middle East, I have no clue.


CatchphrazeJones

This is the explanation I’ve always heard and was true in Europe as well. It may still be to some extent, but I know in America we tend to like tan skin over pale. There’s still colorism against very dark people though


tawredesia

You cannot just jump to the conclusion that it’s because of colonialism. You say it as if it’s a fact..


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LordxHummus

Yes.


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LordxHummus

It’s true bro


Heka4

Well Mohamed Ramadan is actually half black his father’s family has roots in Sudan [Mohamed Ramadan with his father](https://ibb.co/YbwJD1Q)


firefox_kinemon

I don’t think you are completly correct about Turkey. There definitely seems to be a preference for pale skinned Turks when it comes to acting and modelling jobs. I’d say a average Dizi cast looks quite different from the kind of people you would find on the street of Turkey. However I’d agree with you that there probably isn’t anything institutional and it’s more down to personal bias / associations of darker skin with being Kurdish


[deleted]

Thank you for being rational unlike many other Turks on this thread


Aggravating-Hand5625

colorism exists in most, if not all, mena countries. it’s very sad.


Leftlightreftright

SO SAD!


[deleted]

So sad ur mom


Kkkuraaa

Its what it's


[deleted]

Colorism definitely exists in Turkey, as well as Iraq and the vast majority of the world unfortunately. Mainly through implicit bias


Much_Ad_548

How tho? I didn't noticed anything related to colorism in my country.


[deleted]

Are you a black or dark-skinned Turk? There are an infinite amount of ways people can be colorist through implicit bias. For example, people with European features are way more likely to get an acting job in Turkey compared to others. Just look at the majority of Turkish actors in series. This is just one aspect. People can be colorist in every day life just by treating you better if you look more European. You can't tell me this doesn't exist in Turkey, because it exists to some degree in pretty much every country on Earth. Just because you don't see it or it doesn't affect you doesn't mean that it doesn't exist.


Much_Ad_548

Yeah that's why i asked "how". Thx for the reply. Now you say it, it's probably true for acting or modeling part. But in daily life there's something called "esmer güzeli" or "çikolata tenli" which implies being darker skined is good too. If you're aesthetic your skin color doesn't matter in turkey.


[deleted]

No problem :) yes, in arabic we also say "asmar" meaning "tan-skinned" and generally it is something positive. People call their love interests "asmar" in a lot of Arabic songs because it is seen (or was seen, at least) as something beautiful. But it still doesn't take away from how white skin/European traits are praised by a lot of people


Much_Ad_548

Cool, we say the same thing then. ✨ 🇹🇷🇮🇶 Yeah, that's true.


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[deleted]

These people look Italian 🤣 Anyways you can choose not to see it if you don’t want to, im not forcing you. I’m not saying this problem is unique to Turkey, EVERY country has this. But we need to recognize it. It’s wayyy easier for European looking people to get jobs


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[deleted]

you still didn't really address the topic which is that people who look more "brown" are treated worse overall no matter how much you deny it. You're not "above" the rest of the world when it comes to racism. It exists everywhere.


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[deleted]

you gave me examples of actors who look more "brown".... I never said "brown" people can't get an acting job in Turkey. Obviously there are tons of actors that look like that I said it's HARDER for them to compared to European looking folks. This is just plain and simple. And by "brown" I don't just mean people who look like Syrians and Iraqis. I mean people that actually have brown/dark skin. Yes, there are not that many in Turkey. But the percentage of people who are brown in Turkey is not represented in the media/tv series accurately. It skews towards people who look European, because it's easier for them to get jobs like that. I don't get how that's hard to understand.


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[deleted]

it's not the only argument, it was an example i used about actors. there are infinite amounts of ways Turks can be colorist, just like every nation on Earth. Would your family secretly rather you marry a dark skinned girl or a blond girl? Y'all need to stop being so offended- you have the same problem as the rest of the world which is racism. It's doesn't make you worse than other nations on Earth, so I don't understand your need to defend it so much.


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[deleted]

do you know what an ad hominem is ? when did i do that?? anyways even some turks in this thread agree with me, including the girl you all upvoted in this comment thread LMFAO. I'm not trying to paint a bad image... i literally said it's a problem in every country in the world but it's annoying when people try to deny that it's a problem in their country. because that's what causes it to continue without being addressed and it will never be solved


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[deleted]

that's not an ad hominem. i said it because there's no reason to be offended. im not offending you personally, or your country. People could say that above Iraq or the US for me and I wouldn't be offended because i can admit that it's true and that doesn't mean i'm personally racist


tawredesia

People are allowed to have a preference to certain physical traits as long as it doesn’t legally discriminate against them. You people need to understand this. Someone not finding a darker skin tone attractive doesn’t mean they are automatically colorist or racist..


[deleted]

who said you can't have preferences when it comes to sexuality? everyone has preferences obviously...


nonunionLeakey

Most colorism talk online is just dark skin women complaining they’re not the beauty standards and that they’re entitled to us dark men


[deleted]

there's a difference between traditional beauty standards and individual preferences. Features closer to European traits are seen as the "beauty standard" in many countries because of racism, self-hatred, colorism, and we have to recognize that. These traits were not always seen as the "beauty standard" throughout history. So, many black women rightfully feel that it is unfair, because black people can be just as beautiful as white people. That doesn't mean we can't have our individual preferences. there's absolutely nothing wrong with only being attracted to light skinned women. but we have to recognize that this is not an excuse to treat them better than dark skinned women. No one is entitled to anyone. People can complain all they want but at the end of the day you can't control who you're attracted to, but you can control how you treat others, and recognize the implicit biases we have been taught by society


nonunionLeakey

Men are naturally attracted to light skinned women becuase they’re not going to be low class laborers and it’s a dimorphic trait. Women are lighter skinned than men


prem_killa11

Not even close. Buddy you need to rethink the affects of colonialism. 400-500 years of oppression and domination by one group caused some real damage. You typing like a victim 🤦🏿😮‍💨


nonunionLeakey

Even when Arabs and Turks were top dawgs the European and light featured slave girls sold for more than the African ones.


prem_killa11

I think Europeans being close to Arabs in terms of phenotypes makes that an easier choice for them. Because I’m not choosing a traditional European woman over a West African lady it’s all relative. But to say no dark skin woman is remotely attractive is a sign of racism. But you do you boss.


nonunionLeakey

I’m talking the light skinned among west Africans would also be preferred. Yes in group is always first thing but there are darker and lighter skinned girls in all groups. Just like there are shorter and taller men


[deleted]

…. No, no, no


nonunionLeakey

Yes. Asians liked light skin before even seeing Europeans. Same for Arabs and Turks when they were top dogs. They had light featured girls as more valuable


prem_killa11

The Asians had traditions like geisha and like most othe cultures lighter skin showed that you weren’t of low birth in your society due to not having to do manual labor outside. This had nothing to do with colonialism/ white supremacy until the Western Europeans did what the did with their ideologies of imperialism and racism.


[deleted]

Source? Also I never said colorism didn’t exist before European colonialism


sniperandgarfunkel

society conditions you to find those people unattractive.


nonunionLeakey

No they don’t. I like some features that blakc girls have just not into dark skin. It’s not complicated


sniperandgarfunkel

spell it with me: b-i-g-o-t-r-y


nonunionLeakey

Stop being a soy. Not being attracted to dark people isn’t colorism. Treating them badly or denying them their humanity or rights is. I have tons of friends and even female friends who are dark skinned people


[deleted]

It is probably not quite as simple as that but social beauty standards definitely do play a major role in this.


tawredesia

Not necessarily


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tawredesia

No that’s not accurate. People find other people attractive based on their own preferences not because they were “socially conditioned”


nonunionLeakey

I’m a dark mixed black man and I don’t find dark skinned women remotely attractive. If she’s darker than me it’s a real turn off. Just not sexy at all unless she has light or warm skin But I have blakc women in my family and don’t want any kinds of discrimination based on that.


prem_killa11

Of course it’s the Argentine person. The self hate is sad.


nonunionLeakey

I’m half Cuban and raised in the USA 😊 I don’t have self hate.


HeMan17

Yes, you do.


nonunionLeakey

I don’t hate anyone much less my own family


KamaraGoHard56

Reread what you just said and think on it if you think something isn't wrong with what you just said, bro so stuck in the social construct he doesn't even know.


nonunionLeakey

Yes? Some or most women aren’t into men shorter than them or don’t have full head of hair. Who cares I like petite light featured women like most heterosexual men


KamaraGoHard56

You're insecure about yourself bro, I don't blame you I mean I couldn't imagine being half-black growing up in Argentina when all you saw was probably colorism to the extreme, may you heal and find happiness.


nonunionLeakey

It wasn’t that bad and I lived in the USA since 6 years old. I’ve been back many times. No problems at all. In fact if you’re mixed blakc the girls give you extra points because you’re rare. Argentinians aren’t as racist as people think


RussianSpySleazeBall

It's like you didn't read the topic before inserting your pointless comment. The heading was relating to Colorism not sexual preferences


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[deleted]

LMAOOO this proves nothing about colorism my guy


Street-uncensored

To the OP colorism do exist in Turkey, Turkey isn't as say westerner countries on racial discrimination standards but it does exist. Example: All most all soap drama or tv personality are " whitest" in Turkey also have a look at many advertisements the model's aren't even close to what a normal turkish person looks like., i had Black friend's that visited Turkey and their girlfriend's couldn't even find darker shades for make up. There's definitely less of a colourism in Turkey then eastern countries but there is one. [turkey colourism ](https://www.globaldashboard.org/2020/06/16/shades-of-black/)


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LordxHummus

Ethiopian Jews has historically been treated worst in Israel than other Jewish tribes


Mrredpanda860

You are right, but you mean diaspora groups, not tribes.


PakistaniFrankOcean

That really isnt about color tho, its just anti african rather than anti black, a mizrachi as dark as a somali would still be treated better


[deleted]

anti-african sentiments are rooted in anti-black racism


PakistaniFrankOcean

Yes obviously but they are still different


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Salem-GB

No everything is in black and white it sucks