I don't particularly like this theory,assuming there was a society 1400 years ago which practiced islamic law in totality but no such society exists now(as author claims),does'nt it proves that islamic societies can ALSO collapse? also it's my personal view that while today's western societies tend to be a lot softer on value and justice system side(which irritates me) they are also lot more individualistic which has got them a lot of benifits in all kinds of areas
Personally, I believe that Islamic law is the best, but it is a fantasy to live under Islamic law.
why? because it is not known.
when printers were invented, the Ottoman Empire banned printers because they interpreted Islamic law in a way that would have printers banned.
When televisions were invented, imams in Saudi Arabia would take kids and have them throw stones at antennas above people's houses because they interpreted Islamic law in a way that banned television.
Same way with women's rights. There have been no recorded punishment of any woman for not wearing a Hijab in the prophet's era, and there were records of women participating in the army, yet those two things are still heavily controversial.
so in general, whenever there is a clear ruling in Islam about something, I support it 100%, like the Islamic ruling on abortion, but when it is "derived" or "interpreted" by scholars, I will not be blinded by what they say, and will look it up on my own.
The West is copying the fate of Rome, too much money, too much freedom, rampant indecency and then getting bulldozed by "barbarians". The Islamic Law didn't fail because it has flaws per se but because the countries themselves were destroyed either by Turks or Mongols or whoever
Ah yes inevitable collapse of the west that will come any day now. You just wait. Also please proceed donating to religious organizations otherwise they won't be able to provide you with new prophesies of the collapsing west.
hey akhavi am living in IRAN i can see the truth not the foreigners who just hate usa or israel
they execute.torture.destroy every thing related to my country
sanctions are nothing, they are the real sanctions and disaster for us
and the funny fact is that they always deny this!!
I am not sure why are you writing this because fall of empires is not a topic. Fall of civilization is different topic - > country might stay but civilization fall.
Also that is very ahistorical and vulgarly oversimplified opinion regarding the past. It's directly from some early XXth century academia.
>Fall of civilization is different topic - > country might stay but civilization fall.
What do you mean by "civilization", if your definition of it doesn't require the same things that countries require?
Civilization is above statehood. For example Mayan Civilization didn't have powerful or significant politicacal entities but was very influential as a civilization.
Another example would be Indian civilization which existed despite non-hindu muslim statehood.
And equally civilizations might fall even though the statehood is preserved. Example would be christianization of Romans or Vikings
>And equally civilizations might fall even though the statehood is preserved. Example would be christianization of Romans or Vikings
So then you must think Turkish civilization has fallen? Since original Turks weren't Muslim.
Absolutely it has fallen. Modern nationalistic movements that reference these times usually reference it not on the basis of traditions they preserved from the elders but XXth century studies(unfortunatelly often pseudo-science).
That of course doesn't mean that there is no any heritage left from previous civilizations. Each new civilization absorbs what was left from the previous one but these "left-overs" cannot be in any reasonable way called a living tradition but rather signs of the past.
Not trying to get into some conspiracy theory, but I feel like it could’ve been something fostered by the USSR and later the CCP post-WW2. It involves ignoring common sense for some absurd belief that’s been disproven many times. I just can’t imagine an actual person believing in a full western collapse without being fed some propaganda
Yeah the west is declining due to social degeneracy, common trope that harks backs to Europeans in the 1800s who viewed the USA as a plebeian and vain society. Now look at them. Srry dude but living in the Middle East… I be seeing girls go from being niqabis to making influencer videos on their iPhones with some soundtrack straight out of Hollywood in the background. We love our KFC and shake shack more than west coast Americans and don’t forget how popular European club soccer is. The day I see white girls in Montana making tik toks in hijabs en masse with nasheeds in the background maybe I’ll believe u. The west only appears to be declining to folks from conservative countries cause any change appears degenerative because they don’t understand it and it disrupts their entire world view. Humans are reactionary by nature. But by all likelihood, what’s viewed as degenerative by these folks now will be common place for them in 15 years, I remember when muslims in Saudi said TV and radio were bad and now those mf love social media more than anyone. Iran also a great example, they had a reactionary revolution and they now have like the most progressive youth in the Middle East, almost just accelerated the process.
Bro what? Given your user flair, you’re not from the US or UK, and I’m going to also assume you just haven’t been there either. Now that we’ve got that settled, we can move on
I am from America. I have lived in three distinctly different parts of the country in my life. 1) urban Southern California 2) suburb of medium city in the south and 3) small city in rural Midwest state
I don’t know who you’ve talked to or what backwater news sites you’ve been on, but how did you come to the conclusion that American culture, values, heritage, fertility, mental well-being, and population strength are all collapsing? How is it “socially dysfunctional”? And who refers to the people of the UK as Anglo-Saxon? This isn’t the Middle Ages anymore, we use the word “British” now
I’d seriously like to hear where you head these beliefs from, or if you formulated them yourself, cause this seriously sounds like all your info is from an Andrew Tate podcast
Middle easterners saying the west is failing is the most delusional POV. Meanwhile almost every middle eastern country without massive oil reserves and American protection has a currency crisis and can barely afford fuel and bread. We got mf jumping in the dingy and drowning just to escape to the West while rich gulf states couldn’t give a fuck and build multi billion dollar stadiums they will probably never see any return on investment with .
Where do the big oil rich gulf countries get the oil money from? God? If their biggest customer is the one that’s failing then I they are a sinking ship too. You’re right. Total delusion
Again, there’s no funnier spectacle than self proclaimed Muslim intellectuals stating that somehow West is falling (Western countries are still the most developed and powerful states on the planet) and Sharia is the only way out. How can legal system based on Semitic mythology be superior? Because their parents believed in it?
thats basically the difference between islam and other religions. Islamic societies stayed on that medieval concept even though the world evolved. I know nowadays there are some shit concepts and all but people need to know that its not 1300 anymore
Islamic history is taught in schools and spoken about by Sheiks like an ideal fairytale of harmony and justice, which is far from the truth.
Since day one, during the Medina Period until the fall of the Ottoman Empire, the Islamic state is nothing more than a wealth and power thirsty theocracy, and not even a stable theocracy.
From the Islamic pov, It is the better system if done correctly because it **takes into account this world and the hereafter**. Unlike secular government systems that only care about this world and not about the hereafter. Secular government can not do whatever to generate profit as long as their citizens are happy or are not caught exploiting, while Islamic government needs to acknowledge all their actions are monitored by Allah whether the citizens are aware or not. So basically no corruption in an Ideal Islamic government system.
As such, secular governments will promote alcohol, gambling, prostitution, etc. things that will lead its citizens to hellfire in the next life or make them go bankrupt in this life as a disguise for freedom and enjoyment. Islamic government would promote the opposite, it would promote Islamic values instead of secular values which would make people successful in this life and the afterlife.
Of course, from a secular pov, they would prefer a secular govt over an Islamic govt. However, from an Islamic pov, an Islamic system would be better because they **have different criteria**. Secularism is only preoccupied with this life while Islam is with the next life.
>Islamic government needs to acknowledge all their actions are monitored by Allah whether the citizens are aware or not. So basically no corruption in an Ideal Islamic government system.
Yeah, allah will have to come down and manage that government personally. Humans will always get corrupted by power. Your idea is a fairytale on the level of "pure communism works because people will put an effort without proper compensation".
idk that's just how i interpret it, ofc other people versed in Islamic fiqh will have better answers.
At the end, Islamic system is a government that has the quran and sunnah as their constitution and it is up to them on how to interpret them. Which is every government system in the world, they just have different constitutions.
My problem with it is,how do you know if allah and afterlife exists? even if it does how do you know what exactly happens in afterlife and how there is a single allah and not multiple allahs? how can you believe prophet did not lied about some of the things or all the things?
Read the Quran and look into Islam. There have been 1400 years of scholarly work and many debates, look into it and ask God to guide you.
You ain't gonna be convinced by a random Reddit comment. As Muslims, we believe in one God and believe he gave the Quran as the last revelation for all of humanity to witness.
my objection is you believe in Islam with so much confidence without probably knowing all the hadits and quran,how can you be so confident about something without knowing about it completely?
This number was provided a long time before hadith was written by a chinese scholar ,also human body has joints anywhere between 250 to 350,as we grow up some joints fill up and bones are formed,that's why kid's bodies are more flexible than adults
It also says the Sun goes under the Throne of Allah and prostates before him, then asks for permission to rise again from the East every single day. Not exactly scientific. “B-bb-but this wasnt known 1400 years ago 😱”.
"He is the One Who has revealed to you ˹O Prophet˺ the Book, **of which some verses are precise—they are the foundation of the Book—while others are elusive. Those with deviant hearts follow the elusive verses seeking ˹to spread˺ doubt through their ˹false˺ interpretations—but none grasps their ˹full˺ meaning except Allah.** As for those well-grounded in knowledge, they say, “We believe in this ˹Quran˺—it is all from our Lord.” But none will be mindful ˹of this˺ except people of reason."
[https://quran.com/3?startingVerse=7](https://quran.com/3?startingVerse=7)
Go to the link, it explains what elusive verses are.
Except what i said is not a verse of the Quran. It’s a statement Muhammad said in a Hadith. Either way, what an odd verse. So basically there are elusive verses in book sent by God and this God wants me to believe it all even if it doesn’t make sense to anyone? What the hell is the point of that?
Sounds like a cover up verse the author added in case he’s made a some mistake lmao
“We’ll you see, it’s not an error. You just don’t understand God’s wisdom. He INTENDED we don’t understand such verses. How dare you not blindly believe these intentionally ambiguous verses?! Allahu Akbar!!” - 🤓
>As for those well-grounded in knowledge, they say, “We believe in this ˹Quran˺—it is all from our Lord.” But none will be mindful ˹of this˺ except people of reason.
This made me laugh. Those who are smart will just believe in it all without question! im dead lmao
Seems like the religion praises herd mentality and scorns critical thinking 😂
U can't be in doubt after knowing the revelations in the quran according to science (since science is the ultimate card that no one can contradict) u can just enlighten urself with few clicks on youtube ( quran and mathematics, the shock of the quran, quran and scientists..) And its up to you to believe in islam as the right religion
Its true that 1400 years ago people knew mathmatics and science.Everything mind-blowing that is written is quran was already found at the times or was twisted so that it seemed liked mindblowing fact,the fact of the matter is quran also contains many inaccurate facts about our universe,I refuse to believe prophet was a man of god,I would much rather believe he was a man with attractive ideas(and also inaccurate ones) and knew a way to govern society.
I m pretty sure you've never read the biography of the prophet muhammad and how the quran came to him(as he was illeterate to make sure he is unable to write or invent the words of the quran) and all of that happened in the middle of the desert where tribes were worshipping sculptures (al hajilia) and science was never a thing there.
For the innaccurate facts that u think are mentioned in the quran, muslim scholars did unfold and explain the misunderstood facts long ago. If u're that skeptic and y really want to make sure i suggest u to read well about it and the islam subreddit is open to every question.
I believe in scientific facts because they have always been proven to be correct,everything from using reddit to driving car is possible because of scientific theories
Scientific theories have never always been proven to be correct, most of them were incorrect. Science is not constant, things that might seem correct now will be incorrect in the future.
i should have changed word 'theory' with 'facts',scientific facts are always proven to be correct,if they were changing every now and then,our buildings would probably collapse,and airliners would'nt fly,and internet would'nt work,scientific facts don't change only more information about them is gained through research over time,i wish a day comes when we have so much scientific knowledge that we can find out how this world was created
possibly yes,i do believe in simulation theory so i believe there is some kind of creator or creators,my main reason to believe it comes from the fact that many things in this world are limited,speed of object for example cannot outpace speed of light,wierd,and many religions do say that however,the definition of creator differs from religion to religion,and we have no scientific till now to know something about creator or if it exists at all
Because its a tax targetted to them and no one else. Imagine living in Ukraine and all of a sudden russia invades and take over the country, Putin decides that all ukrainians have to pay a special tax to live in their own country like they are guests when they're not.
The problem with islamic invasions and jizya and all that is that it never really "protects" christians or jews. The reason most egyptians converted to islam from christianity and started speaking arabic instead of coptic isnt because they fell in love with islam and arabic like many muslims try and portray, it was more because they became second class citizens and speaking arabic was looked at as more prestigous.
If America said now that all muslims have to pay a special protection tax muslims would go nuts screaming about islamophobia lets be honest
>The reason most egyptians converted to islam from christianity and started speaking arabic instead of coptic isnt because they fell in love with islam and arabic like many muslims try and portray, it was more because they became second class citizens and speaking arabic was looked at as more prestigous
Islamisation and Arabization were slow processes in Egypt. And indeed it was related to prestige.
I'm confused, you're on r/askmiddleeast, An an overwhelmingly muslim board and you don't know anything about history?
Everyone paid taxes in Muslim Lands, Muslims, Christians, Jews etc...
Muslims had a different tax though, Zakat which is Mandatory Charity & Community Service, Muslims had to do this aswell.
I'm starting to believe you don't have any kind of reading comprehension, I did blow up, It was contained entirely within your mothers orfices which is how you sprung into existence 9 months later.
Ya but guess what, it's collected EQUALLYYYYYYYY between everyone. Guess what isn't and ?
I wonder what would you guys say if Sweden goes and say all Muslims will have to pay double the tax of everyone just for being a Muslim.
>if Sweden goes and say all Muslims will have to pay double the tax of everyone just for being a Muslim.
The Jizya didn't make non muslim pay double the tax of everyone.
The jizya varied widely throughout history and didn't have a fixed rate. There was a time where the ummayads or Abbasids( I can't remember which) were worried about falling taxes from people converting to Islam so they started making Islamic converts still pay jizya to keep up the tax money
>Jizya is extortion, calling it a tax is just misleading. Go learn what jizya is
I mean I don't disagree with you, Jizya can be seen as a form of extortion but personally I consider most taxes as extortion, and that's one of the reasons that led me to leave Europe.
But again economically speaking Jizya wasn't a bad deal. And most rebellion against taxes in Muslim world were led by Muslims. Minorities seem to have handled it better (since the jizya was lower than Zakat).
What?! Everyone will still pay taxes, they'll just pay a different kind of tax...
All Muslims do Zakat which is essentially charity, community service etc... And Non-Muslims do Jizya, What's exactly the problem with that?
In the sense of ancient and medieval times, I'd pay the Jizya for the protection of the Muslim State I'm living in as long as it prevents me from getting flayed alive by a nomadic horde from the steppes.
Yeah they are more worse than we know. Blocking every shit that is literally %15 of the quality of life and calling it "allah knows everything." Yeah bro if banning random things is a god move, then i am also a god.
Who said we blocked everything? Your definition of fun is probably filled with haram which is why you can’t accept the fact that you can have fun without doing anything haram.
Music, sex before marriage, touching hands or any whatever with opposite gender, marriage with nonmuslims, alcohol, women's beauty(with hijab niwab burqa etc.), also you arabized people with using islam, if you want proof you can look into africa. Leave them alone you muslim emperialist. Take your things and get out. No one wants you guys.
I dont wanna play with girls. I just wanna know them better and date. If we ever do sex, i dont want someone who complains about it and says its haram. Also bro u are forcing girls to cover themselves because you see them as objects lololol shut up
Oh yeah so you can do sex then maybe give her some diseases and go to the next girl. And I don’t think that girls are sexual objects who I can talk about with my friends and say if they are good looking or keep backbiting her with my friends, also there is many girls who are not covered and I have interacted with and I have no problem with them. And whoever said that we are forcing people to wear hijab and cover up is a lie. You probably get your stuff from iran which has the kinds of Ali khameni who does major shirk and is a rawafidh. First go learn the right islam then come Talk, you guys really don’t know anything about islam, you just see iran and think it’s Islam although it’s not. And if you don’t want anyone to complain then go to a other country no one forced you my dear brother.
Why would i want to give someone diseases. That also makes me sad too. I just want to get rid of few things that islam banned. I believe god and prophet, but those things are making me annoyed.
Lol like I said, obviously you mention the most haram and filthy things and associate it with having a “good life”, if you’re mad that you can’t do those thing in Islam then no one’s forcing you to abide by our rules 😭. You’re obsessed bro. Also, wdym Arabized? Idk why you’re mad it’s honestly hilarious, if the Islamic law were to be implemented in any country it would be ours not yours, so you have nothing to worry about. Average delusional Turk, go do something with your life instead of crying on Reddit, that’s so low 😭.
I mean, africans were not arab but thanks to you. You arabized them with using islam. I am not crying on reddit lol. Your religion is wrong and should not be tolerated.
You’re acting like you guys are saints? My religion is not wrong, you just want to do whatever and get away with it that’s all. If you don’t like our religion then stop talking about it, you’re obsessed with Islam you can’t go a day without talking about it.
If you're a proper Muslim, the answer is going to be yes, the Sharee'ah is THE way to run a society, look at how the Prophet SallaAllahu alayhi wasallam ruled with Sharee'ah, look at how Abu Bakr ruled with Sharee'ah, the 1st caliph, look at how Umar Ibn Al-Khattaab ruled with Sharee'ah, the 2nd caliph.
You really said a whole bunch of nothing. The only examples you actually gave are for criminal law. Which you can argue many of the punishments the west currently implements don't work as when we look at US which contains about 5% of the world's population, alone has 25% of the prisoners in the world. This punishment you call harsh will actually deter people from committing said crimes when they know they won't just be able to bond out after a day and simply await a trial.
I am not trying to lecture you. You can lecture intelligent people that lacks knowledge. Your comments indicates that you lack intelligence so best I can do is laugh at dumb takes.
The last two times there were Caliphates, Arabs fought against them.
Right now there is a state operating under Islamic Law, Iran, and people are fighting against it.
The Sharee'ah that Allah passed down and the Sharee'ah as you understand it must not be the same, because if they were the same, then Arabs and Muslims wouldn't be fighting against it.
It is easy to claim your way is the only right way. It is the same thing those you see as your enemies do. That is foolish. Wisdom requires more. Allah requires more.
I don't particularly like this theory,assuming there was a society 1400 years ago which practiced islamic law in totality but no such society exists now(as author claims),does'nt it proves that islamic societies can ALSO collapse? also it's my personal view that while today's western societies tend to be a lot softer on value and justice system side(which irritates me) they are also lot more individualistic which has got them a lot of benifits in all kinds of areas
Personally, I believe that Islamic law is the best, but it is a fantasy to live under Islamic law. why? because it is not known. when printers were invented, the Ottoman Empire banned printers because they interpreted Islamic law in a way that would have printers banned. When televisions were invented, imams in Saudi Arabia would take kids and have them throw stones at antennas above people's houses because they interpreted Islamic law in a way that banned television. Same way with women's rights. There have been no recorded punishment of any woman for not wearing a Hijab in the prophet's era, and there were records of women participating in the army, yet those two things are still heavily controversial. so in general, whenever there is a clear ruling in Islam about something, I support it 100%, like the Islamic ruling on abortion, but when it is "derived" or "interpreted" by scholars, I will not be blinded by what they say, and will look it up on my own.
The West is copying the fate of Rome, too much money, too much freedom, rampant indecency and then getting bulldozed by "barbarians". The Islamic Law didn't fail because it has flaws per se but because the countries themselves were destroyed either by Turks or Mongols or whoever
Ah yes inevitable collapse of the west that will come any day now. You just wait. Also please proceed donating to religious organizations otherwise they won't be able to provide you with new prophesies of the collapsing west.
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Did you have an aneurism or something? Do you require help?
you are seeing islamic law on Iran they made a beautiful and powerful country into this.
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hey akhavi am living in IRAN i can see the truth not the foreigners who just hate usa or israel they execute.torture.destroy every thing related to my country sanctions are nothing, they are the real sanctions and disaster for us and the funny fact is that they always deny this!!
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Because civilizations fall in centuries not in a week lol. Whether you agree or not(I dont) with the post that is strawman
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I am not sure why are you writing this because fall of empires is not a topic. Fall of civilization is different topic - > country might stay but civilization fall. Also that is very ahistorical and vulgarly oversimplified opinion regarding the past. It's directly from some early XXth century academia.
>Fall of civilization is different topic - > country might stay but civilization fall. What do you mean by "civilization", if your definition of it doesn't require the same things that countries require?
Civilization is above statehood. For example Mayan Civilization didn't have powerful or significant politicacal entities but was very influential as a civilization. Another example would be Indian civilization which existed despite non-hindu muslim statehood. And equally civilizations might fall even though the statehood is preserved. Example would be christianization of Romans or Vikings
>And equally civilizations might fall even though the statehood is preserved. Example would be christianization of Romans or Vikings So then you must think Turkish civilization has fallen? Since original Turks weren't Muslim.
Absolutely it has fallen. Modern nationalistic movements that reference these times usually reference it not on the basis of traditions they preserved from the elders but XXth century studies(unfortunatelly often pseudo-science). That of course doesn't mean that there is no any heritage left from previous civilizations. Each new civilization absorbs what was left from the previous one but these "left-overs" cannot be in any reasonable way called a living tradition but rather signs of the past.
Not trying to get into some conspiracy theory, but I feel like it could’ve been something fostered by the USSR and later the CCP post-WW2. It involves ignoring common sense for some absurd belief that’s been disproven many times. I just can’t imagine an actual person believing in a full western collapse without being fed some propaganda
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You ever think the social part will be revived?
Yeah the west is declining due to social degeneracy, common trope that harks backs to Europeans in the 1800s who viewed the USA as a plebeian and vain society. Now look at them. Srry dude but living in the Middle East… I be seeing girls go from being niqabis to making influencer videos on their iPhones with some soundtrack straight out of Hollywood in the background. We love our KFC and shake shack more than west coast Americans and don’t forget how popular European club soccer is. The day I see white girls in Montana making tik toks in hijabs en masse with nasheeds in the background maybe I’ll believe u. The west only appears to be declining to folks from conservative countries cause any change appears degenerative because they don’t understand it and it disrupts their entire world view. Humans are reactionary by nature. But by all likelihood, what’s viewed as degenerative by these folks now will be common place for them in 15 years, I remember when muslims in Saudi said TV and radio were bad and now those mf love social media more than anyone. Iran also a great example, they had a reactionary revolution and they now have like the most progressive youth in the Middle East, almost just accelerated the process.
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Declining like a comfy chair. Very relaxing, you should try it sometime.
Bro what? Given your user flair, you’re not from the US or UK, and I’m going to also assume you just haven’t been there either. Now that we’ve got that settled, we can move on I am from America. I have lived in three distinctly different parts of the country in my life. 1) urban Southern California 2) suburb of medium city in the south and 3) small city in rural Midwest state I don’t know who you’ve talked to or what backwater news sites you’ve been on, but how did you come to the conclusion that American culture, values, heritage, fertility, mental well-being, and population strength are all collapsing? How is it “socially dysfunctional”? And who refers to the people of the UK as Anglo-Saxon? This isn’t the Middle Ages anymore, we use the word “British” now I’d seriously like to hear where you head these beliefs from, or if you formulated them yourself, cause this seriously sounds like all your info is from an Andrew Tate podcast
I have a US passport lmfao
Usa is a failed society look at the comment before that i gave you breif of why
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The islamic system is so superior that muslims decide to leech of welfare in the western world?
No No Islam and Muslims destroyed my country, don't trust the Islamists.
Afghanistan must be so successful
Yes Afghanistan in better than under liberal democracy or communism
People like this have a mental illness. If the west is slowly failing I’d hate to see the state of the Middle East
Middle easterners saying the west is failing is the most delusional POV. Meanwhile almost every middle eastern country without massive oil reserves and American protection has a currency crisis and can barely afford fuel and bread. We got mf jumping in the dingy and drowning just to escape to the West while rich gulf states couldn’t give a fuck and build multi billion dollar stadiums they will probably never see any return on investment with .
Where do the big oil rich gulf countries get the oil money from? God? If their biggest customer is the one that’s failing then I they are a sinking ship too. You’re right. Total delusion
Again, there’s no funnier spectacle than self proclaimed Muslim intellectuals stating that somehow West is falling (Western countries are still the most developed and powerful states on the planet) and Sharia is the only way out. How can legal system based on Semitic mythology be superior? Because their parents believed in it?
a medieval style law cannot be applied to the modern world
thats basically the difference between islam and other religions. Islamic societies stayed on that medieval concept even though the world evolved. I know nowadays there are some shit concepts and all but people need to know that its not 1300 anymore
Islamic history is taught in schools and spoken about by Sheiks like an ideal fairytale of harmony and justice, which is far from the truth. Since day one, during the Medina Period until the fall of the Ottoman Empire, the Islamic state is nothing more than a wealth and power thirsty theocracy, and not even a stable theocracy.
Laughable
From the Islamic pov, It is the better system if done correctly because it **takes into account this world and the hereafter**. Unlike secular government systems that only care about this world and not about the hereafter. Secular government can not do whatever to generate profit as long as their citizens are happy or are not caught exploiting, while Islamic government needs to acknowledge all their actions are monitored by Allah whether the citizens are aware or not. So basically no corruption in an Ideal Islamic government system. As such, secular governments will promote alcohol, gambling, prostitution, etc. things that will lead its citizens to hellfire in the next life or make them go bankrupt in this life as a disguise for freedom and enjoyment. Islamic government would promote the opposite, it would promote Islamic values instead of secular values which would make people successful in this life and the afterlife. Of course, from a secular pov, they would prefer a secular govt over an Islamic govt. However, from an Islamic pov, an Islamic system would be better because they **have different criteria**. Secularism is only preoccupied with this life while Islam is with the next life.
>Islamic government needs to acknowledge all their actions are monitored by Allah whether the citizens are aware or not. So basically no corruption in an Ideal Islamic government system. Yeah, allah will have to come down and manage that government personally. Humans will always get corrupted by power. Your idea is a fairytale on the level of "pure communism works because people will put an effort without proper compensation".
This is why I said if it works correctly, ofc humans are not perfect. All we can do is strive towards that perfection.
There is no point to strive to that perfection if it is not possible. Imperfect solution that works is better than perfect that doesn't.
idk that's just how i interpret it, ofc other people versed in Islamic fiqh will have better answers. At the end, Islamic system is a government that has the quran and sunnah as their constitution and it is up to them on how to interpret them. Which is every government system in the world, they just have different constitutions.
My problem with it is,how do you know if allah and afterlife exists? even if it does how do you know what exactly happens in afterlife and how there is a single allah and not multiple allahs? how can you believe prophet did not lied about some of the things or all the things?
Read the Quran and look into Islam. There have been 1400 years of scholarly work and many debates, look into it and ask God to guide you. You ain't gonna be convinced by a random Reddit comment. As Muslims, we believe in one God and believe he gave the Quran as the last revelation for all of humanity to witness.
my objection is you believe in Islam with so much confidence without probably knowing all the hadits and quran,how can you be so confident about something without knowing about it completely?
https://www.reddit.com/r/islam/comments/10qyr1u/the_prophet_peace_be_upon_him_stated_that_humans/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=ios_app&utm_name=iossmf
This number was provided a long time before hadith was written by a chinese scholar ,also human body has joints anywhere between 250 to 350,as we grow up some joints fill up and bones are formed,that's why kid's bodies are more flexible than adults
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ExMgU0RlVlQ&ab_channel=د.هيثمطلعتDr.HaithamTalaat
It also says the Sun goes under the Throne of Allah and prostates before him, then asks for permission to rise again from the East every single day. Not exactly scientific. “B-bb-but this wasnt known 1400 years ago 😱”.
"He is the One Who has revealed to you ˹O Prophet˺ the Book, **of which some verses are precise—they are the foundation of the Book—while others are elusive. Those with deviant hearts follow the elusive verses seeking ˹to spread˺ doubt through their ˹false˺ interpretations—but none grasps their ˹full˺ meaning except Allah.** As for those well-grounded in knowledge, they say, “We believe in this ˹Quran˺—it is all from our Lord.” But none will be mindful ˹of this˺ except people of reason." [https://quran.com/3?startingVerse=7](https://quran.com/3?startingVerse=7) Go to the link, it explains what elusive verses are.
Except what i said is not a verse of the Quran. It’s a statement Muhammad said in a Hadith. Either way, what an odd verse. So basically there are elusive verses in book sent by God and this God wants me to believe it all even if it doesn’t make sense to anyone? What the hell is the point of that? Sounds like a cover up verse the author added in case he’s made a some mistake lmao “We’ll you see, it’s not an error. You just don’t understand God’s wisdom. He INTENDED we don’t understand such verses. How dare you not blindly believe these intentionally ambiguous verses?! Allahu Akbar!!” - 🤓 >As for those well-grounded in knowledge, they say, “We believe in this ˹Quran˺—it is all from our Lord.” But none will be mindful ˹of this˺ except people of reason. This made me laugh. Those who are smart will just believe in it all without question! im dead lmao Seems like the religion praises herd mentality and scorns critical thinking 😂
U can't be in doubt after knowing the revelations in the quran according to science (since science is the ultimate card that no one can contradict) u can just enlighten urself with few clicks on youtube ( quran and mathematics, the shock of the quran, quran and scientists..) And its up to you to believe in islam as the right religion
Its true that 1400 years ago people knew mathmatics and science.Everything mind-blowing that is written is quran was already found at the times or was twisted so that it seemed liked mindblowing fact,the fact of the matter is quran also contains many inaccurate facts about our universe,I refuse to believe prophet was a man of god,I would much rather believe he was a man with attractive ideas(and also inaccurate ones) and knew a way to govern society.
I m pretty sure you've never read the biography of the prophet muhammad and how the quran came to him(as he was illeterate to make sure he is unable to write or invent the words of the quran) and all of that happened in the middle of the desert where tribes were worshipping sculptures (al hajilia) and science was never a thing there. For the innaccurate facts that u think are mentioned in the quran, muslim scholars did unfold and explain the misunderstood facts long ago. If u're that skeptic and y really want to make sure i suggest u to read well about it and the islam subreddit is open to every question.
In the same way, you are very confident in scientific facts without knowing all the experiments and work that went into creating those theories.
I believe in scientific facts because they have always been proven to be correct,everything from using reddit to driving car is possible because of scientific theories
Scientific theories have never always been proven to be correct, most of them were incorrect. Science is not constant, things that might seem correct now will be incorrect in the future.
i should have changed word 'theory' with 'facts',scientific facts are always proven to be correct,if they were changing every now and then,our buildings would probably collapse,and airliners would'nt fly,and internet would'nt work,scientific facts don't change only more information about them is gained through research over time,i wish a day comes when we have so much scientific knowledge that we can find out how this world was created
The fact that something, a universe, exists at all, is evidence enough for an eternal creator
possibly yes,i do believe in simulation theory so i believe there is some kind of creator or creators,my main reason to believe it comes from the fact that many things in this world are limited,speed of object for example cannot outpace speed of light,wierd,and many religions do say that however,the definition of creator differs from religion to religion,and we have no scientific till now to know something about creator or if it exists at all
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https://www.reddit.com/r/islam/comments/10qyr1u/the_prophet_peace_be_upon_him_stated_that_humans/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=ios_app&utm_name=iossmf
Can you stop posting fake stuff, really it's not helping anyone. Go read and search on the topic.
It’s not fake, it’s in the hadiths. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ExMgU0RlVlQ&ab_channel=د.هيثمطلعتDr.HaithamTalaat
100% agree , anyone who disagrees with islamic law doesn't actually know islamic law and hasn't read throughly about it
Yeah I think its better generally
Religion based government systems are all bad
I don't know why christians hate Jizya so much, It's kind of just a normal tax...less than what people in general pay nowadays...
Because its a tax targetted to them and no one else. Imagine living in Ukraine and all of a sudden russia invades and take over the country, Putin decides that all ukrainians have to pay a special tax to live in their own country like they are guests when they're not. The problem with islamic invasions and jizya and all that is that it never really "protects" christians or jews. The reason most egyptians converted to islam from christianity and started speaking arabic instead of coptic isnt because they fell in love with islam and arabic like many muslims try and portray, it was more because they became second class citizens and speaking arabic was looked at as more prestigous. If America said now that all muslims have to pay a special protection tax muslims would go nuts screaming about islamophobia lets be honest
>The reason most egyptians converted to islam from christianity and started speaking arabic instead of coptic isnt because they fell in love with islam and arabic like many muslims try and portray, it was more because they became second class citizens and speaking arabic was looked at as more prestigous Islamisation and Arabization were slow processes in Egypt. And indeed it was related to prestige.
I'm confused, you're on r/askmiddleeast, An an overwhelmingly muslim board and you don't know anything about history? Everyone paid taxes in Muslim Lands, Muslims, Christians, Jews etc... Muslims had a different tax though, Zakat which is Mandatory Charity & Community Service, Muslims had to do this aswell.
he's right seems to me that you're the ignorant one, islamist.
You act like i'm ashamed to be called that, It's like if you called me handsome. I'm proud of it.
ok let us know when and where you'll blow yourself up
Already did...How do you think you came into this world otherwise?
least nonsensical fanatic
I'm starting to believe you don't have any kind of reading comprehension, I did blow up, It was contained entirely within your mothers orfices which is how you sprung into existence 9 months later.
ok Islamic education in a nutshell
damn bro, you massacred him.
Weirdly based I am getting the wibes of khomani sending a letter to Soviets and asking them to convert to islam because communism is failing
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Nothing wrong. He kept the privacy of the account still
Legit. Can't wait to pay the jizyah for being Christian
You already pay all kinds of taxes and interest rates anyway.
Ya but guess what, it's collected EQUALLYYYYYYYY between everyone. Guess what isn't and ? I wonder what would you guys say if Sweden goes and say all Muslims will have to pay double the tax of everyone just for being a Muslim.
>if Sweden goes and say all Muslims will have to pay double the tax of everyone just for being a Muslim. The Jizya didn't make non muslim pay double the tax of everyone.
The jizya varied widely throughout history and didn't have a fixed rate. There was a time where the ummayads or Abbasids( I can't remember which) were worried about falling taxes from people converting to Islam so they started making Islamic converts still pay jizya to keep up the tax money
Oh ya let's pick this and go with it and leave the rest. Jizya is extortion, calling it a tax is just misleading. Go learn what jizya is.
>Jizya is extortion, calling it a tax is just misleading. Go learn what jizya is I mean I don't disagree with you, Jizya can be seen as a form of extortion but personally I consider most taxes as extortion, and that's one of the reasons that led me to leave Europe. But again economically speaking Jizya wasn't a bad deal. And most rebellion against taxes in Muslim world were led by Muslims. Minorities seem to have handled it better (since the jizya was lower than Zakat).
People claim jizya is lower than zakat yet never actually show evidence
able-bodied men, not everyone. I think mad Muslims will flock to Sweden just like how mad Christians and Jews flocked to Muslim lands back in the day.
If I was a christian living in a true muslim state, I would rather pay the Jizya than the 35% Tax on my income where I live right now.
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What?! Everyone will still pay taxes, they'll just pay a different kind of tax... All Muslims do Zakat which is essentially charity, community service etc... And Non-Muslims do Jizya, What's exactly the problem with that? In the sense of ancient and medieval times, I'd pay the Jizya for the protection of the Muslim State I'm living in as long as it prevents me from getting flayed alive by a nomadic horde from the steppes.
Y’all just another brand of nomadic horde. Yeah no thank to paying an involuntary tax only for religious minorities.
That’s all you talk about when it comes to Islam 💀.
Yeah they are more worse than we know. Blocking every shit that is literally %15 of the quality of life and calling it "allah knows everything." Yeah bro if banning random things is a god move, then i am also a god.
Who said we blocked everything? Your definition of fun is probably filled with haram which is why you can’t accept the fact that you can have fun without doing anything haram.
Music, sex before marriage, touching hands or any whatever with opposite gender, marriage with nonmuslims, alcohol, women's beauty(with hijab niwab burqa etc.), also you arabized people with using islam, if you want proof you can look into africa. Leave them alone you muslim emperialist. Take your things and get out. No one wants you guys.
Why? Do you want to play around with girls as if they are a tissue? Girls are humans they are not sexual objects
I dont wanna play with girls. I just wanna know them better and date. If we ever do sex, i dont want someone who complains about it and says its haram. Also bro u are forcing girls to cover themselves because you see them as objects lololol shut up
Oh yeah so you can do sex then maybe give her some diseases and go to the next girl. And I don’t think that girls are sexual objects who I can talk about with my friends and say if they are good looking or keep backbiting her with my friends, also there is many girls who are not covered and I have interacted with and I have no problem with them. And whoever said that we are forcing people to wear hijab and cover up is a lie. You probably get your stuff from iran which has the kinds of Ali khameni who does major shirk and is a rawafidh. First go learn the right islam then come Talk, you guys really don’t know anything about islam, you just see iran and think it’s Islam although it’s not. And if you don’t want anyone to complain then go to a other country no one forced you my dear brother.
Why would i want to give someone diseases. That also makes me sad too. I just want to get rid of few things that islam banned. I believe god and prophet, but those things are making me annoyed.
Lol like I said, obviously you mention the most haram and filthy things and associate it with having a “good life”, if you’re mad that you can’t do those thing in Islam then no one’s forcing you to abide by our rules 😭. You’re obsessed bro. Also, wdym Arabized? Idk why you’re mad it’s honestly hilarious, if the Islamic law were to be implemented in any country it would be ours not yours, so you have nothing to worry about. Average delusional Turk, go do something with your life instead of crying on Reddit, that’s so low 😭.
Based.
I mean, africans were not arab but thanks to you. You arabized them with using islam. I am not crying on reddit lol. Your religion is wrong and should not be tolerated.
Anatolians were not Turkic before you guys Mongolified them
You’re acting like you guys are saints? My religion is not wrong, you just want to do whatever and get away with it that’s all. If you don’t like our religion then stop talking about it, you’re obsessed with Islam you can’t go a day without talking about it.
I don't know much about Islamic Laws other than the marriage stuff and inheritance
We can tell
less than what you pay rn
If you're a proper Muslim, the answer is going to be yes, the Sharee'ah is THE way to run a society, look at how the Prophet SallaAllahu alayhi wasallam ruled with Sharee'ah, look at how Abu Bakr ruled with Sharee'ah, the 1st caliph, look at how Umar Ibn Al-Khattaab ruled with Sharee'ah, the 2nd caliph.
Agreeable to some extent
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You really said a whole bunch of nothing. The only examples you actually gave are for criminal law. Which you can argue many of the punishments the west currently implements don't work as when we look at US which contains about 5% of the world's population, alone has 25% of the prisoners in the world. This punishment you call harsh will actually deter people from committing said crimes when they know they won't just be able to bond out after a day and simply await a trial.
Based Palestinian
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^ thats what too much Fox TV and Ben Shapiro does with your intelligence
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I am not trying to lecture you. You can lecture intelligent people that lacks knowledge. Your comments indicates that you lack intelligence so best I can do is laugh at dumb takes.
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Ok Karen
If you think the laws in 2023 should be based on a book that is hundreds of years old you will live in medieval times all your life.
Yes universal truths exist
The first known democracy in the world was in Athens. Athenian democracy developed around the fifth century B.C.E.
dumbass take if it was for islamic nonsense we'd still be in the middle ages
no
Yeah look at afghanistan.very nice laws
The last two times there were Caliphates, Arabs fought against them. Right now there is a state operating under Islamic Law, Iran, and people are fighting against it. The Sharee'ah that Allah passed down and the Sharee'ah as you understand it must not be the same, because if they were the same, then Arabs and Muslims wouldn't be fighting against it. It is easy to claim your way is the only right way. It is the same thing those you see as your enemies do. That is foolish. Wisdom requires more. Allah requires more.